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No Time to Die (Spoilers)
281 Plays3 years ago
In this episode, Satsunami and Adam take on a mission most dangerous indeed: to review the final entry into the Daniel Craig series of James Bond films.
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Transcript
Episode Introduction
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to Chatsunami. Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Chatsunami. I'm Satsunami and joining me for this swan song of a film is the one, the only, Double Low Adam. Adam, welcome back.
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello, hello, greetings and salutations upon this winter eve. As indeed a winter eve, as freezing, hasn't it? It's cold, it's pretty cold in the northern climes here, but we shall carry on, we shall endeavour.
Discussing 'No Time to Die'
00:00:45
Speaker
We shall persevere with our puffer jackets, our masks, our... Wait a minute, sorry. I've got my notes mixed up with the film. As you could tell by those very, very subtle hints, today we are indeed going to be talking about a very special film that of course being Daniel Craig's very last entry into the series, No Time to Die. And, oh boy, how long has it been since this film was announced, compared to when it was actually released?
00:01:13
Speaker
I can't remember, but I think it's maybe just shy of the runtime of the film. Oh, that is a low blow, Adam. That is a low blow. It's true. Come on, everybody said it. Did you ever think you'd go and watch a Bond film that was two hours and over, over, sorry, two hours and 40 minutes. I mean, you weren't counting, were you? I was. I sat there with my stopwatch. I missed half the film, but it was worth it. I'll never, that's the opportunity to be pernickety.
00:01:40
Speaker
So today we're reviewing Half of No Time to Die, fun. Nah, jokes aside, this film was announced in, well, you know, you know how it is with James Bond films, they always say James Bond will return and everything, and then like a year or two later, they'll announce the next film coming out.
Impact of COVID on Film Release
00:02:00
Speaker
And obviously because of a certain virus doing its global tour of the world just now, this film was supposed to come out in 2020, wasn't it?
00:02:08
Speaker
April 2020. I had originally planned to, my dad's birthday is around that time of year, so I'd originally planned to take him to the cinema for his birthday and I was able to do it a year and a half later. They said a late birthday present. Better late than never, to be fair. Very true. That's what I said. Be grateful. Well, in your case, or never, that gets us what you are hoping.
00:02:32
Speaker
So, yeah, this was supposed to come out in 2020. And then, of course, they pushed it back because of Covid and everything. And my God, they just kept going back and back and back, didn't they?
00:02:45
Speaker
yeah they wanted that cinema release yeah because let's face it every single film at this time was aiming for that sweet sweet streaming release yep you know whether it's disney plus whether it's netflix amazon kulu hbo max exactly yeah who uses hbo mask i don't know american people now okay i hear them talk about it a lot
00:03:06
Speaker
Shout out to our HBO fans in America. We love you. Yeah, this film was like adamant that it was not going to touch them with a barge bow.
00:03:17
Speaker
It was like, oh god, streaming services. Don't be so crass. You'll never catch on. Exactly. You're like, come on, we just want to see the film. It wasn't until October this year that this film actually reared its head and said, okay, now it's time to
Daniel Craig's Bond Era
00:03:32
Speaker
come out. And you're like, finally. You felt as if he saw the same clip over and over again though. People were speculating about the film, what was going to happen.
00:03:40
Speaker
and everything it was just a bit of a mess wasn't it but eventually it found the time to die but before we dive into you know our views about this quite i was about to say it was on the tip of my tongue i was about to say iconic film but uh it's a film certainly a problem i can say that with certainty oh yeah a hundred percent it is a film put that in the box for christmas chatanami says it's a film five stars because they paid us
00:04:08
Speaker
And again, you know, not waving the chance for any sponsorship, so let us know and we will edit this episode for a long review. But, yeah, jokes aside, we have actually talked about the Daniel Craig films in the past, haven't we? We have indeed. Yeah, we've talked about, from his gritty entry in Casino Royale to the less than spectacular Spectre. Yeah, like, do you want to recap what we said about
Evolution of Bond's Character
00:04:35
Speaker
the films?
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah, so will I do it in four words? So basically the Daniel Craig Bond series goes, good, bad, good, bad. We both really like Casino Royale and Skyfall, the first and third entries in the film. And we both don't particularly like Quantum of Solace and Spectre, the second and fourth films.
00:04:53
Speaker
So it's been a very mixed bag with Daniel Craig. And I think overall we both said that we overall really liked Daniel Craig and his portrayal of Bond, but there's just been some of the films around that have surrounded his character have just been less than stellar. So it's been a proper mixed bag for him, unfortunately.
00:05:10
Speaker
because as fans of the show will know from past episodes, you and I are also both fans of a particular portrayal of Bond. That of course being the one, the only, the Timothy Dalton, who brought like a lot more of a serious take on the character and I think at the time it wasn't well received because Bond at the time was like silly and
00:05:34
Speaker
you know he had all his gadgets and he was a womanizer and everything and this kind of more serious take on the character definitely wasn't like a good thing at the time but i think it's like aged a lot better nowadays or maybe i'm just getting more cynical i don't know what you think i do
00:05:49
Speaker
I think it certainly laid the groundwork for this run of Bond without a question. Maybe this is a bit hyperbolic, but I don't know if we have Craig's Bond without what Timothy Dalton started off in the late 80s. So I still think it's a divisive run. It's not everybody's cup of tea, because people can be idiots and can't see the true genius of Timothy Dalton's portrayal. But no, for some people, it's not their bag and fair enough.
00:06:17
Speaker
But I think certainly it's important. I think you have to, you can't understate it's important, certainly to what Bond became.
00:06:23
Speaker
No, absolutely, because as we said there Bond really wasn't, I mean Sean Connery did have these kind of serious moments but overall it was like quite a goofy series of films wasn't it? It certainly became, I mean like the first, certainly the first two like Dr. Nolan from Russia With Love, the first of two of Sean Connery's run are quite serious and like you know much more grounded affairs and then kind of from Goldfinger onwards for the last four it took a much more kind of like
00:06:50
Speaker
I'd say ludicrous, I don't mean that as a criticism for some of them, but a more ludicrous, over-the-top tone that kind of set the stage for a lot of what was to come, especially into the Moore era. I mean, there's lots of pattities. You don't have to take our word for it.
00:07:06
Speaker
There's like, you know, the parodies of the evil doctor, you know, hell-bent on world domination, stroking these cats. There's like the evil superweapons, the lasers going up. You all know the scene. I'm not gonna explain it in detail.
Themes in Craig's Bond Films
00:07:20
Speaker
But yeah, when Daniel Craig's bond came around, he was a lot more gritty, a lot more Jason Bournesque.
00:07:27
Speaker
I would say, more serious. And it seemed as if, and I'm curious to hear what you have to say about this, but it felt as if he was a lot more serious at the beginning, but the more the films went on, the more goofy the Daniel Craig films got.
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, I'd agree. I think it was that way that as much as Casino Royale tried to break from, and did actually, in many ways, break the mold of a Bond film, it was almost like as Craig's run went on, the filmmakers and producers couldn't help themselves but fall back into the old tropes. That's what we talked about with Spectre. It went back to that way of ridiculous gadgets and villains, your classic campy supervillains bent on world domination.
00:08:14
Speaker
And those more ridiculous elements did begin to creep in. So you're totally right. It's just like they tried something new, but then, you know, the mould was not to be broken.
Expectations for 'No Time to Die'
00:08:22
Speaker
It was too strong. So I think Skyfall came out at a very particular moment in Bond history because it came out during its 50th anniversary. Is that right and sane? Yeah, it was the 50th anniversary.
00:08:33
Speaker
because of that there was like a lot of fan service in it you know there was a lot of like you had the Aston Martin you had the gadgets coming back so there was kind of some leeway for that but when it came to Spectre they started leaning more into that nostalgia and personally for me I felt as if that's kind of where the telltale signs were that they were going down like a slippery slope for me personally like I was not excited for no time to die when it came out but
00:09:02
Speaker
Before we jump in and start either praising or tearing this film apart, basically depending on the budget we're getting for reviewing us all. You know, spoilers guys, it's nothing. But we're doing this for you guys. When did you see this film first? Yeah, so I saw this film a week or two weeks after its release towards the end of October. I took my dad for his belated birthday trip. Yeah, so not too long after release.
00:09:30
Speaker
I'm actually just trying to remember when I went
Viewing Experience in Orkney
00:09:33
Speaker
to see it. It was definitely a couple of weeks after it came out because, and this is going to sound like a really weird reason, but I was actually up in Orkney, in case anyone doesn't know the islands up in the north of Scotland. Beautiful place, by the way. Terrible Wi-Fi reception, but beautiful place on what? Nah, jokes aside, you don't go for the Wi-Fi.
00:09:53
Speaker
we were driving about you know amazing scenery and everything and in one of the main cities there that they've got they've got a city called Kirkwall and in Kirkwall they've got a small cinema which like shows like one film I think one or two films a day it's like you know one of these deals where it's like a cinema inside of a sports centre inside of a swimming pool it's like a multi-purpose building
00:10:17
Speaker
essentially. And we went in really excited because we heard that No Time To Die was playing there. We went into this rather, well, rather unique looking cinema. And yeah, I honestly enjoyed the experience for the film itself. I don't know how much I can extend that
In-Depth Analysis of 'No Time to Die'
00:10:37
Speaker
to. But you know what? Before we give this film its last rites to die, will we listen to some messages first before we get into it?
00:10:46
Speaker
Let's hear what they gotta say. Yeah, let's hear it. Welcome to Chatsunami, a variety podcast that talks about topics from gaming and films to streaming in general interest. Previously on Chatsunami, we discussed Game of the Decade, Deadly Premonition, the romantic thriller, Burdemic, and listen to us get all sappy as we discuss our top five Christmas films.
00:11:07
Speaker
If that sounds like your cup of tea, then you can find us an anchor, Spotify, YouTube and all good podcast apps. As always, stay safe, stay awesome and most importantly, stay hydrated.
00:11:20
Speaker
We are Beer and Chill Podcast. Podcast where we review TV shows, games, movies and whatever else takes our fancy. So what are you waiting for? If you're a cool kid like us, you're gonna listen to the Beer and Chill Podcast. You can get it anywhere from Spotify all the way to your grandma's radio. My name is Jan. And I'm Craig Yisi. And we are Beer and Chill.
00:11:56
Speaker
And thank you once again for those messages. So, yeah, let's do our usual, Adam. Let's start with the good. In fact, before we go on, I want to preface as well that we will be diving into spoiler territory. That probably comes as no surprise, since everybody else has probably dived in. Like, you know, gone for the jugular. Do you want to kick off with some of the good points? Because there is a lot to see or criticize this film for.
00:12:26
Speaker
I can hear you like pulling up your notebook that's just filled with notes. It's like the good, page one, the bad, page two through to 100. But yeah, sorry, I'll let you begin. In fact, sorry, before we go on to that, what were your initial expectations of the film?
00:12:43
Speaker
So I was cautiously, I was going into this cautiously optimistic, because I kind of, I liked the trailer and I liked what I, what I'd heard about the kind of direction of the film. And I was interested to see how they were going to round off this series of Bond. So I was excited to see it. So I went, I went in like, I mean, I had seen Spectra though, so I, my expectations were lowered to an extent because, you know, I was like, I'm not, I'm not going to get fooled again here, but I was, I was excited. I was excited to see what they were going to do.
00:13:12
Speaker
I honestly didn't know what to expect, to be honest, because this film was like... I wouldn't say it was marred in controversy. I'm not gonna be that dramatic, but it certainly wasn't testing well from, like, everybody I was seeing online, they were saying, like, oh, what's this? Bond's getting replaced by somebody else, and oh, this and that, and oh, Bond's this and Bond's that. You know, the usual discourse, isn't it? Like, the usual discourse online.
00:13:40
Speaker
Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, months of sitting in the bedroom studying Wiki pages and fan theories. Of course, yeah, just like myself. But no, jokes aside, yeah, I really didn't hear many, just like initial impressions, but I was kind of hopeful. As we said, you know, the film, or rather the film series for Daniel Craig's James Bond score. Good bad, good bad. So I was expecting this one to be
00:14:06
Speaker
good. But after Spectre, Spectre, I'm going to be honest, it's one of the worst Bond films I've ever seen. It's terrible, it's poorly paced, it's just, it's all over the place. It's messy, you know. If you got that at a restaurant, you would be sending it back and saying, what is a slop on my plate? I want you to come back with a well prepared dish.
00:14:28
Speaker
How dare you give me the slop? Give me some of your roast Skyfall. Yeah, exactly. Roast Skyfall, for the starter, will have some casino royale with cheese, you know. But no, instead we got Spectre, which was just... It was a fan fiction. I'm sorry. I know we're here to criticise no time to die, but I have to get out of the way first. So I wasn't very hopeful. I really was not hopeful about this film. But I have to admit, coming out of it, before we get into the details, I...
00:14:59
Speaker
It almost seemed like you were going to be positive then and you were like, wait a minute. I choked. What can I say? I did choke on the words there. It's a film. It's got some really, really good bits but then at times it's just unbearable. Again, we will pick apart the film. Don't you worry Adam, we will get to that. I remember sitting coming out of it and I just did not know what to think.
00:15:23
Speaker
I sat there thinking, yes, I like some of it, other bits I didn't like it. It's one of those Marmite films. You're either gonna love it. Well, no, in fact, no, sorry, that's a disservice to Marmite. It's not a film you're either gonna love or hate. It's a film that I'm gonna have a sore backside because I'm sitting on the fence about it. So, you know, without any further ado, let's just rip this band-aid off. Let's get into the good points of this film. What did you like about this film? Let's get some positivity into this episode.
00:15:52
Speaker
So yeah, before I delve into what I liked about this film, I'll just give a quick, you know, as is tradition now on Chatsunami, I'll give a short but terrible summary of the film. And it still is bad.
00:16:08
Speaker
So, no time to die. In no time to die, James Bond is retired from MI6 and is trying to live a life away from, you know, the hustle and bustle of international spycraft. However, he's dragged back into it and he's recruited by the CIA to track down a missing Russian scientist who'd been working with MI6 and who has been kidnapped by a new nefarious villain who has his own plans for world domination and all that.
00:16:32
Speaker
And as Bond is drawn back into his old world of spycraft, he reunites with a lot of old faces, including M, Moneypenny, Q, and also Madeline, who he had been very close with before, but they have suffered what seems to be an irreparable break in their relationship. And so the film is about Bond not only trying to thwart the plot of this new villain, but also to in a way reconnect and repair his relationships.
00:16:58
Speaker
because that's what we want in a James Bond film. The Jeremy Kyle version of James Bond. It was certainly different, I'll give it that. Oh yeah, oh 100%. But sorry for interrupting there, I just wanted to put that one last jab in before we have to inject some positivity. Before we inject some positivity. So when looking at the good of this film, I'm going to start right at the beginning. I really love the opening to this film. So the film opens, we
00:17:23
Speaker
zoom in on this house which is isolated by itself, we don't know where but it's very snowy and there's a young girl in there and also her alcoholic pretty much like out of it mother and not long into this film of the scene of domestic tranquility comes a stranger who is
00:17:38
Speaker
dressed up in arctic camouflage and wearing this very very creepy doll mask and he proceeds to kill the mother and then try and hunt down the girl and yeah eventually looks like he's going to kill everybody and then he decides not to and i thought it was really well done it was really tense and it was actually a really really like i thought a really excellent villain intro i guess one of the best ones i've seen in the Bond film i definitely quite paid it off but still i think if you're looking at that opening scene in isolation i thought it was just excellent
00:18:05
Speaker
Oh no, I totally agree with you. 110% on that point. I remember sitting there thinking, don't get me wrong, I don't think the whole intro, like the bit after that's like perfect. So this is something I thought was quite interesting that they did with the intro because usually, and correct me if I'm wrong, I could be wrong in this, but usually in a James Bond intro, they just have like the one story kind of scene.
00:18:29
Speaker
never have any flashbacks, they never have any kind of segues or things like that. They always just have the Bond is here doing X, Y and Z. Then something happens, then the plot commences and you know the theme song goes on. For this one they do start with the villain introduction which I do agree. The guy looks absolutely terrifying, he's like lumbering through the snow, he's hunting this child you know. There's like obviously this huge difference between like this helpless girl who admittedly she does get a gun.
00:18:59
Speaker
It does shoot back. So fair play to her and then she falls under the ice and he saves her. And that is fantastic. You kind of do expect though it is going to be Madeline though. I'm not going to complain about that because that's like an obvious English thing. But it's fantastic I do agree. But then we cut to, it's like later, isn't it, where, I don't know how much time's passed, but it takes place when Bond is basically on his honeymoon phase with Madeline in, is it Italy?
00:19:29
Speaker
think it's I don't think it actually says but I think it's Italy yeah there's a real like a lack of I mean took him along again this is a nitpick but there's like a lack of a title cards for where they are like I'm quite surprised because they if they turn that in past films or I'm not sure they plaster all over like in big letters like where they're going where they are
00:19:49
Speaker
Because I know technically, I don't think they do in Skyfall. I think they do. Did they? I think though, because I'm sure it comes up saying Shanghai and stuff and Macau and everything. I'm sure it does. Yeah, but for the old films at least anyway, I'm sure they used to do or something to kind of tell you where they were. I mean, again, that's kind of a nitpick.
00:20:06
Speaker
But the one thing I did, and I know we're on the positives, but I did like the fact that they did reference the past films. I feel as if this is something that they do quite well in the Daniel Craig films. Again, they mentioned Vesper who, yeah, that made me angry again because I kept thinking it should have been you. So it should have been you and not Madeline. We'll get to that. But yeah, it was a great opening. And then, of course,
00:20:35
Speaker
coughing explodes as it does, you know, when in Rome. And then, yeah, there's a whole chase scene. And basically all of the footage that we've seen a million times in the run-up to this, for all the advertising, he jumps off the bridge, he rides the motorcycle. But I must admit, they are fantastic stunts. Like, I don't want to be too facetious and say, oh, we've seen them a million times. They're still fantastic. But sorry, content.
00:20:59
Speaker
Well, that actually leads on quite nicely to something that I thought was a real, like, well, for me personally, it was a real strength of this film was the action scenes. Because I had enjoyed, I really enjoyed the action scenes that were in Casino Royale and Skyfall, but like with Quantum of Solace and especially with Spectre, they just reached a kind of ridiculous level that like kind of irked me.
00:21:18
Speaker
There's a particular scene in Spectre where James Bond and Madeleine swan his main love interest in Spectre and in No Time to Die. They're in a plane and it ends up crashing into a hill and they end up sliding down this mountain in this plane. And I was like,
00:21:34
Speaker
this is like Roger Moore levels of ridiculous now but I felt they really scaled it back really effectively in this film and I thought the action scenes were really well shot and actually had that kind of realism and that kind of punch to them there's one in particular there's about it's probably about midway through the film maybe just after the midway point where Bond travels to Norway to basically find Madeline
00:21:52
Speaker
and he also discovers at this point that Madeline has a daughter. He knows that the villain is coming after them, so he gets them both and he takes them away from the house. But they get chased down, basically, and then their car ends up crashing in this forest in Norway, and it's really misty, and it's really atmospheric. And I thought that scene was absolutely excellent because it becomes this game of cat and mouse, basically, where Bond has to stalk through the forest, trying to track down. There's three Land Rovers, a bike,
00:22:20
Speaker
a helicopter, like old tracking them and stuff, and he needs to like take them out. And I thought that was just excellently done. It almost had this like Jurassic Park feel to it, as weird as that sounds to say. But like, there's a bit where Bond is running with Madeline, he's carrying the girl. And all you can hear is this like roaring and this revving of engines in the background. And I was like, it gave me such like Jurassic Park vibes and everything just from like, because it sounded like dinosaurs. I just thought it was excellent. I thought it was really, really well done. So honestly, like I was so impressed with the action that there's not as much action in this film.
00:22:50
Speaker
I think, again, it's a result of it being such a long runtime. But it feels like there's less action in this film than in other Bond entries, but I thought when it was there, I thought it was really, really well done. I agree. I think the action was definitely a highlight of this film, and kind of just like leading on from that, because of course you can't have action without the actors themselves.
00:23:11
Speaker
I actually have to admit, I'm really like Daniel Craig in this one. I don't know whether this is because, you know, it's his last film and he's just like, ah, screw it. You know, I don't think he was perfect, but I feel as if he was a lot more relaxed in this one, if that makes any sense. Like, he had a little bit, like, I'm not saying he's perfect, but he had a little bit more charisma and just like, oh, I don't care, kind of thing. What did you think of him in this one? Yeah, like, he didn't seem as bored. Like, to me he looked bored.
00:23:40
Speaker
inspector and it looked like he just didn't want to be there and as you said I don't know whether this is a result of being the last one but he did look more engaged and more you know and that certainly elevates his performance I don't really know how I feel about his performance I have to admit I didn't it's not it doesn't really fall into the good or bad for me falls in that way of like I thought it was solid like I think he's done better I think his portrayals in Skyfall and Casino Royale are a lot better but I didn't feel it was bad by any stretch
00:24:04
Speaker
And I thought he played his part effectively. So I think I know there's one particular character that you very much liked in this film. And I think I can't I don't know the actress name, I have to admit, but I thought she did excellently. But I'll I'll let you talk about her. Is this Anna de Armas? That's the one. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. Yeah. I honestly thought you were talking about Madeline Swans. And I was about to throw down. Just stop recording. Stop it right now. Remember I've been positive here. I've been positive. OK, OK.
00:24:33
Speaker
Sorry, I just got the meditation up yesterday. I'm still working through it. I'm only on stage one. Pay for the subscription. Okay.
00:24:43
Speaker
So yeah, Anna de Armas is fantastic. Absolutely dripping with charisma. Does her scenes like absolutely fantastically. The only downside to her character, like basically Bond meets her character. And apologies, I can't remember her character's name off the top of my head. I think I was just in a trance of oh my god, she's awesome. But she plays this like
00:25:05
Speaker
I think it's... is it a CIA agent or is it like an... Either that or she's like a contact. I can't remember. Yeah, I think you're right. She is a CIA agent. Yeah, she pretends to be like a fan of Bond and oh, I can't wait to work with you and they end up in this like huge party scene and spectre. Like her characters are a lot of fun to watch like both in action. But whether she's shooting something or she's talking, she was great.
00:25:30
Speaker
My main gripe with her though is that she's only in the film for about 15 minutes and then they like, it is honestly like, you know, waving a lollipop over a child's head and then after 15 minutes of teasing them, just brutally snatching them. I was like, brutally snatching out of the hands and going, no, you've touched the lollipop. That's it. You can't get any more. It's like, maybe
00:25:52
Speaker
didn't even get to see her in action. They also were like, no, no, no, you're not allowed this character anymore. And it's just such a shame because she did such a fantastic job. I honestly thought she was one of the strongest points in this world. And by extension as well, while we're on the topic of the CIA, I did like Felix's return. Yeah, it was good to see him back.
00:26:11
Speaker
Yeah, it was quite nice, you know, seeing him return for the good old days of Quantum. And no jokes aside, it was nice seeing his character again, even though he was short-lived as well, both figuratively and literally, because we get that typical fake-out scene where it's like, oh, the good guy who's with him turns out to be a bad guy. And there's so many examples of that against Hyram, but I'm getting ahead of myself here. I'm trying to think who else. I liked the new 007 I have to say. Yeah, she was good.
00:26:39
Speaker
I have to admit, there was a lot of obviously controversy about the character because everybody thought that she was there to replace Bond. The way people were acting, I'll just touch on this quickly, but the way people were acting, it was as if she was going to undergo some metamorphosis into James Bond and it's like 007's the title of the job. It's not
00:27:02
Speaker
on the title of the person. He wasn't born James Bond 007, but I have to admit though, I wasn't a big fan of her character and the marketing. I did agree to some extent, I did feel as if she was a bit kind of abrasive in it.
00:27:17
Speaker
but seeing the film it was the complete opposite. I genuinely thought she did like a really good job and her and Daniel Craig had like a good... I don't want to say chemistry but you know like good banter between them. So yeah I thought she did absolutely fantastic. I like Q as well. Q was good. I did like the fact we got to see his cats and the Flatties come.
00:27:36
Speaker
for the mortgage. Is it a flat or a house? No, it's a house because he's got a mortgage. Anyway, I like that kind of slice of life moments. I thought that was quite funny. I didn't like him. I don't know what was going on there. I felt as if Ray Fiennes was like, you know how you said Daniel Craig was bored in the last one? I felt as if he was bored in this one. He wasn't the worst of this film, but he didn't give 110%. I don't know what was going on there.
00:28:01
Speaker
Although, one thing I will say, sorry, just before I ask what you thought. I did like the callbacks to the older names. Did you notice that? Yeah, in the pictures and everything. Yeah. That was cool. I like that. I did. You saw Judy Dane. She saw Bernard Lees. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah. It's so good. I thought that was a lovely callback because after Matt and me getting sick of seeing the Aston Martin, I have to see the Aston Martin one more time. I think I'm going to scream because it's like, oh, look, it's the Aston Martin. Although, to be fair, they did drive off and the Aston Martin. So you know what?
00:28:31
Speaker
perfectly fine. Perfectly fine. Like that, that's serviceable enough. Yeah, but is there any other characters you thought were good? I did like the Russian scientist because he gave me like golden, he gave me a Boris from Goldeneye vibes. I mean, I was waiting for that. I'm invincible. I'm kind of gutted he didn't say that or something words to that effect, but he was kind of fun for what he was. I agree with you, the
00:28:55
Speaker
the actor who plays in U007, her name is Lashana Lynch. I thought she was really good. Yeah, it was good to see, it was good to see Moneypenny and Q back again. I thought they did well. Nice to see Felix. With it, yeah, with the M, you're right in the, like, and I think it's, I don't really think it's, I'm not going to lay this at Ralph Fine, or Ray Fine, sorry, whatever his name is now, lay at his feet.
00:29:15
Speaker
I'm going to lay this more at the writer's feet because I think the character they were almost trying to go in one direction with the character but they kind of got cold feet it seemed at the last minute and he kind of reverted back to type so it feels weird and I think that's where the problem with that character lie but I'm sure we'll get more back into it but that kind of takes me into like I've got I've got two
00:29:34
Speaker
things here. Two more good points. One's kind of a more minor thing and one's a major thing. So on the kind of minor, I thought the cinematography was absolutely beautiful in this film. I thought it was so well shot. Amazing landscape shots, especially that Norwegian scene from this place is just beautiful.
00:29:50
Speaker
And on a bigger kind of scale, I liked some of the ideas in this film. And I thought there was really interesting material that they had and some really interesting ideas that they were kind of building and developing. And I liked that. I don't think they paid off. I don't think they fully paid off, but I liked the kind of themes and ideas that the writers and the filmmakers were worth.
00:30:09
Speaker
working with. That sort of is my last good point. I started with the opening and I'll end with the ending. I liked the ending. I thought it was a very brave decision they made, but I think it was the right one. I don't know if you want to go into the ending now or if you want to save that for later on, but I'll say I liked it. Yeah, I won't go into the specifics because you should receive it till the end. We'll save it. Yeah, it feels fitting.
00:30:32
Speaker
I genuinely don't know how to feel about it. What I will say, kind of relating to the ending, I liked the callbacks to On Her Majesty's Secret Service, because I'm one of those weirdos that I have to admit, I watched it, and it's not the best Bond film by a long shot, but I actually didn't mind it. I liked the ideas on that. It's in my top five. I think it's amazing. I mean, I honestly, okay, fine. I can take the facade off now. It's like, it's my other best. I'm like, oh, thank God.
00:30:59
Speaker
you're in good company here it's like finally there's another or is this like a trap where it's like we got another one no we found him because i do love the ideas of On Her Majesty's Secret Service like i think there's some silly ideas in that one like is that the one with the hypnotized woman in it and the one where he wears a coat right okay that's the same one okay there's some okay there's some silly moments stuff of its time
00:31:26
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. But one of the things that I really appreciate is the fact that it gives Bond this vulnerability where he actually does find love for the first time, really. Well, not the first time, but like in date, well, yeah, it probably was the first time during that period of James Bond's character. Because let's face it, Sean Connery.
00:31:45
Speaker
was just a womanizer at best, and that was something a lot worse. But yeah, let's not get into that. Yeah, the idea was that Bond on Her Majesty's Secret Service finally finds love in marries and everything, and he says that iconic line, we've got all the time in the world, which honestly it's still like, you know, it still makes me kind of emotional because I think it's such like a poignant line. Spoilers for the film.
00:32:12
Speaker
just in case you haven't seen it like pause the episode go watch it and come back um if you don't want to be spoiled but basically what happens is uh i think it's a spectre agent isn't it or just like it's blowfield it's blowfield and his like was it blowfield himself yep he's got his neck race on everything he's driving the car oh wow i don't know yep being it is like they shoot into the car and of course bon survives because you know he's the
00:32:36
Speaker
he's the star of the show and yeah his wife gets like gunned down and killed and that's how the film ends it's brutal you know you think some of these like Daniel Craig ones are brutal oh that is like the ending is the credits play out and that's what happens at the very beginning of this song the very beginning they say we have all the time in the world you know like something's gonna happen
00:32:58
Speaker
Something is gonna happen. I just know it. I feel it in my fingers. I feel it in my toes. But Christmas isn't around me. It's death. It's supposed to be around me. Death. And I was like, oh god, who's gonna die in this? Anyway, I like the callbacks to it. I'm gonna say I would have liked it if it had a slightly different outcome. But I'm gonna save that because I know exactly the outcome to the world.
00:33:30
Speaker
I know exactly the outcome that you wanted to happen. Yes. All I want to say is if he had like a one last embrace with his loved one. That's who you're savage. Oh, right. OK, before we get into that and before, you know, people say like
00:33:48
Speaker
what was he talking about? I liked the ideas of it and I felt as if this service bond as like a story for an older bond, like no offense to Daniel Craig, but it's like the kind of story that maybe would have suited Roger Moore as well, you know that way where it was like maybe with less action, but it's like you could definitely tell Daniel Craig he's in his 50s at this point.
00:34:10
Speaker
and he, you know, he's tired, he's left, MI6 and everything. And I liked the ideas that they had there, that he was just a tired agent. He still had it, but he was just a tired, weird agent. He just didn't want to keep going, you know, like he had so many regrets and things. I thought that that was really well done. And like you said, I'm going to borrow your phrase, I didn't feel as if it paid off.
00:34:37
Speaker
at the end. But with that, should we go into the negatives of this film?
00:34:43
Speaker
Let's do it, let's do it. I just want to say, kind of as I alluded to before, I think the tone of this film feels absolutely bizarre. As I said before, the Daniel Craig films have always been quite darker and grittier than some of the previous entries. You know, like, I mean, for goodness sake and golden eye, you know, he had the magnetic watch. I'm just trying to think, think of any like pre-Daniel Craig one, you know, you had the car keys that blew up and the Timothy, even the Timothy
00:35:11
Speaker
had kind of some sillier gadgets. But you had Roger Moore putting like a helium pellet into somebody's mouth to blow them up and live and let die. Oh God, I hate that film. It's one of the ones that is really tough for me to get through that.
00:35:26
Speaker
Because there's just so much, you know, like the alligators, Sergeant J.W. Paper. It's like, oh, this is just... Barren Sandy. Yeah, don't worry. We will get to those one day. We will definitely get to those films one day, much to your displeasure on Adam's secret displeasure.
00:35:43
Speaker
didn't quite understand what was going on like I knew what the plot was but what I mean by that is like it seemed as if James Bond is just completely rigorous and I don't know if that's because they're too scared to have grittier things I mean there is kind of grittier things but this whole plot is basically focused around nano machines that spread like a virus and kill people
00:36:08
Speaker
And it seemed like this kind of world domination plot again, which is something we haven't had in a while in these films. I mean, the first one was a bit of card game. It's extortion. They were manipulating stocks for Christ's sake. And things like that. Number two, that was just a revenge plot. It wasn't the best revenge plot, that was a revenge
00:36:28
Speaker
They wanted to take over Bolivia. They wanted to take over Bolivia's water. Yeah, I mean, no offence to our Bolivian listeners out there, but like, I mean, it wasn't world domination. The third one, again, that was just like a revenge plot. I mean, there were some, you know, in Skyfall, there were some like plot holes, but you know, you could wave them off.
00:36:46
Speaker
Number five. Number four did feel as if they were trying to have their cake and eat it too because Skyfall had that perfect spot of, oh we've got gadgets but they're not as fancy. You know like they had the radio that called in the army, they had the pampering gun which I honestly can't stop quoting every time I'm going to warzone and I'm like
00:37:09
Speaker
nine millimeter short and coded to my pampered. Then two seconds later get shot but that's beside the point. Yeah you know they had that like sweet spot there but and then then in Spectre it was like oh we've got Blofeld back, we've got Spectre, we've got the gadgets, we've got the Aston Martin, we've got the scenic Vistas you know. Oh forget Quantum because nobody liked Quantum. They're all dead or whatever, I don't even know what happens to them. I think they say it's like part of Spectre. As I've said before it's like it's middle management, you know,
00:37:37
Speaker
And you're like, why bother? And honestly, I fear it was a spectre. I can't believe I'm saying this because I was so hyped to see spectre in a James Bond film. They were the worst part of this entire series of Daniel Craig films.
00:37:53
Speaker
They were by far the weakest, the worst, the mustached whirling villains, and they did not get any better than this. At the very beginning, they somehow hunt down Bond in Italy, and one of them's got a bionic eye, which Blofeld is somehow Twitch streaming now of, and they're like, what? And then, of course, they have a big party where they put all of their top
00:38:18
Speaker
together. Not only does this feel like a bad idea, but the location they do it is at Havana. In this place that is structurally, I don't think many Havana mansions are built to withstand attacks of any kind.
00:38:34
Speaker
Never mind a biological, or I don't even know what you call it, biological, technological, you know? The virus, let's say. Either way, that was not built for them. And then somehow you get this scientist you brought up here where the scientist has...
00:38:50
Speaker
Oh god. He manages to switch the samples so he kills all the spectre people, and it feels as if that's just to tie a loose end, you know? Because there's a scene later on where they go to see Blofeld, and quite possibly one of the funniest death scenes ever. Literally, Bond touches Blofeld, which he doesn't realise, but Bond's touched the virus, which is being passed on from Madeline to him to Blofeld.
00:39:15
Speaker
Literally, they're talking. Bones talking with us other agent, and then two seconds later, we get this. Yeah, he turned round and it's like a Motoo Python sketch, isn't it? Yeah, basically. It's like he turned round and it's like, oh no, Bones. Not Bones dead, but like, Blofeld's dead and he's just lying there like, I am dead. And you're like, ah.
00:39:36
Speaker
Why? I feel as if they just regressed into the old Bond films and I feel as if that was quite... I didn't know how to feel about it because they said to this president that oh we're gonna be more serious and gritty and this isn't your granddad James Bond and then yeah I don't get what was going on there. I'm trying to think what else? The villain. Will we talk about the villain? Yeah I'll go with the villain.
00:40:01
Speaker
The villain was not strong in this one, I have to say. The villain was strong to begin with, but then by the end of it, it was like, what was his motivation? His motivation was to take down Quantum, but is that not taking down a company that is owned by Disney?
00:40:19
Speaker
Well, that's where he sort of then moves up, doesn't he? He's like, I've taken out the graduate program. Now I'll take out the main company. Yeah, then I'll take out Disney Plus. Then I'll take out Marvel. Then I'll take out Disney. He was working his way up. And he thought, what? What was your plan here?
00:40:34
Speaker
I don't think he thought past quantum, because all of a sudden, by the end of it, he's got his hands on one of the most nefarious biological weapons in human history. He's got this militia, he's got his own private island, somehow on disputed waters. I'm gonna come back. In fact, no, I'm gonna talk about it now. Screw it.
00:40:52
Speaker
Why was it undisputed waters? I get for the end, they were like, oh, we don't know if we can fire the missiles on this island because it's undisputed waters. And it's like, why would you attract attention to yourself? Or maybe that's the point. They wanted to be protected in that way, but the man built a Japanese zen garden on it.
00:41:10
Speaker
Did nobody from like the Russian or Chinese Secret Service look at this and go, yeah this is a bit suspect. Why? Why is he building? Why has he got crates? Or you know like did no one attract attention? Oh yeah, I thought he was wasted potential essentially. I thought his potential and it was wasted. Before I go on about my major gripe about the film, I'm gonna pass it back to you. Is there anything you thought you
00:41:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'll just echo a lot of the sentiments you said. Yeah, the villain's wasted. It's a waste of Rami Malek who plays the villain. His talents are wasted in this film. It's a real shame for him. It's such a strong intro. He is just like, by the end, it's just like stock.
00:41:50
Speaker
supervillain who wants to take over the world with whatever macguffin he has you know nanobots but yes especially since like that opening is basically you know he arrives with this gun and this creepy mask and it's like really it's really striking thing he then just revolves into like oh we're gonna talk about you know we're gonna have talking philosophical but menacing themes while you know i use poisonous i just i don't know it
00:42:10
Speaker
it was a disappointment yeah i agree with you the tone as well like it does kind of i don't know it doesn't get a consistent tone like i felt this kind of needed to be a well i don't know maybe it's me personally because i know not a lot of people don't like when bond goes into this territory but i felt this film kind of need to be a bit more somber and i don't
00:42:25
Speaker
It was at points, but I don't think it quite hit that tone, but I understand for a lot of people that it probably was too somber. So again, you know, you're falling between both rock and a hard place there. The Spectre was the most disappointing part of this film for me, because I think I said at the end of our did our Daniel Craig retrospective, this is one of the things that I was excited about, no time to die, was I thought they were going to kind of rehabilitate Spectre and Blofeld a bit. So I was really excited to see what they did there. And yeah, as you said, it was another waste.
00:42:49
Speaker
like why they were in this film I don't understand. Why Blofeld? I thought there was gonna be like a bit kind of like Silence of the Lambs style thing with Blofeld you know like Hannibal Lecter like uh Clarice Starling kind of relationship between Blofeld and Bond but nope we got one scene and you know then five minutes later he slumped over so yeah total waste. I think my big I've one one kind of problem is I think this film's too long like I don't think it
00:43:11
Speaker
One thing I'll say is I didn't sit there and be like, oh my god, please just end. But it's definitely too long. It really needs to be cut down a lot. My big issue with this film is, and it goes back to a good point that I brought up, I love a lot of the ideas they have in this film. But the film has a desperate lack of focus. It really needed to take one idea that it had and just run with it. So for instance, there's a lot of good things at this. There's a lot of interesting ideas that are brought up here. So we have Bond's personal relationship with Madeline and her child. That's quite interesting.
00:43:40
Speaker
We then have MI6's shady activities, and what are they doing? Have they gone to the dark side, for lack of a better term? That's quite interesting. We then have the new 007 and her relationship with Bond, and that's a really interesting theme. And we then have the villain as well. There's lots of interesting ideas, but the film doesn't grasp any of them. They're all just hanging there. They're dangling their loose threads. And the film just needed to grasp onto one of them and just pull it and just go with it. And it would have made a much better experience, I think.
00:44:07
Speaker
I think part of the problem is this film had about four or five different writers. So you can just tell lots of people are coming up with different ideas. And then, you know, in the spirit of collaboration and cooperation, they decided not to go with any of them. They would just throw them all in and make a kind of very weak suit at the end. So that's my biggest point with this film. I just wanted it to take an idea and run with it. It's a smorgasbord of ideas, isn't it? Nice. I had to get that word done. Oh, I'm proud of you.
00:44:32
Speaker
and honestly thank you. It is just one of those films that you're right, it has so many interesting ideas like oh what's Spectre up to keeping up with the Spectres? You know like what happened there? Nothing because they're all dead and it's like what you mean all of them. Yep every single one and those who weren't dead defected and it's like
00:44:52
Speaker
So you're telling me, right, that you got the legal rights after all these years to use spectre on your film and then the first chance you get you kill them all? This is what you did. This isn't Klondathu. You don't just say like the only good spectre's a dead one and then be done with it.
00:45:10
Speaker
this isn't something I usually say, and maybe I'm being a bit too critical, but what were they thinking? Because I don't know why then they included Spector again, and they say the whole thing that he was livestreaming from his cell through like a bionic eye or something. I don't get that. I feel as if that's something that MI6 would have had a grasp on. I kind of truly remember how was it he's bionic eye that was waving.
00:45:34
Speaker
It gave me flashbacks to that game, GoldenEye Rogue Agent, the main characters of Bionic Eye. I was like, man, maybe there's a fan of that in there who was like, I've always wanted to include a Bionic Eye. James Bond, and now's my chance, damn it. But that's the thing, though. And especially, maybe to go in a semi-serious point here, but especially in this day and age, of course, we are living in a global pandemic.
00:45:57
Speaker
and I think obviously this film was made after the fact. It wasn't made during Covid. I think it was made long before. So the idea of having a pandemic and everything going through the film, I get that maybe they thought it was quite sensitive as well. I don't know how true that is, but considering that plot point, I do agree. It did feel as if they were quite cheery
00:46:24
Speaker
about it, I wanna say, you know, it's like, oh, we gonna stop this virus, am I right kids? You know, and you're like, huh, there's a lot of quipping going on in this film. You know, especially like with, because that's another thing, it's like Bones like goes to Emily saying things like, you know, you should have closed Project Hermes, or Hercules, or Heracles, they call it, sorry, isn't it? Project Heracles, you should have closed that ages ago. And it's like, okay, right,
00:46:53
Speaker
So what is it? And then it turns out it's like a biological weapon that targets specific people and you're like, then they find out that it mutates. If you touch someone else, it spreads to them. It doesn't kill them, but it'll kill someone related. It gets a little bit kerfuffily.
00:47:08
Speaker
Let's just say. But you think if they knew that in the lab, why would you continue this? They're like, oh, it's a precise weapon. And then later you find out in the film that all the people who went to visit the spectre people at the funeral also died. And you're like, huh. So a lot of those people might be running about with that virus then.
00:47:29
Speaker
It felt as if it was tonally inconsistent. Because it's like that guy, Boris 2.0. And I'm not meaning that to be offensive. I genuinely like that's what he feels like. And I do agree. If I thought it was disappointing, they didn't say, I am invincible. I was waiting for it. I was like, come on, say the line. See at the very beginning, you get him obviously not getting along with his colleagues. But then two seconds later, they get like shot in the face right in front of him.
00:47:57
Speaker
say that because I think you're totally right it totally like that scene completely encapsulates the weird tonal elements of that because his co-workers one of them is played by quite a famous British comedian called Hugh Dennis who people might know from things like outnumbered mock the week
00:48:12
Speaker
and he's in it and then it's like oh that's funny Hugh Dennis is here then there's a bit of quipping going on you're like Hugh Dennis that's funny and then we fast forward five minutes later and Hugh Dennis is shot in the face and it's like it's so totally like wow like you know that just encapsulates everything like how uneven this film is
00:48:29
Speaker
because there's like another scene later on and again this is a heavy topic which I feel as if it does dip its toes into the heavy topics and then it pulls it right out again as if oh no too controversial yeah there's a scene later on where he's talking with Lissana Lynch's character and it's just bizarre it's like he's going on trying to like
00:48:50
Speaker
He's obviously going to be taken in alive because now that the film is always jumping from person to person, he's like the hot potato of this film. With Lynch's character, he's standing there and then he does this weird thing saying, I can modify the virus so that it doesn't affect your race or something like that.
00:49:09
Speaker
Whoa, we're going into genocide now. What is that? Obviously that's a very heavy topic for a James Bond. Spector just wanted to take over the world and like, I don't know, hire Russian women with blades in their shoes. You know, they didn't want, well maybe they did, I don't know. I don't know with Spector in this one. This isn't your granddaddy, Spector. Exactly. Yeah, this is the gritty, you know, the one where all the tentacles like, you know, slap over James Bond.
00:49:38
Speaker
hate that intro. Sorry, that is actually one thing I didn't point out in the good part. The intro and the song, I loved it, like, personally. It is one of the highlights of the film. Billy Eilish did a fantastic job with the song. It feels kind of criminal now that I didn't bring that up earlier, but genuinely fantastic. Absolutely top notch. 10 out of 10. Better than Spector, like, I'd say the song for Spector was good, but as I said in our last review, the intro, the visuals were not good. I would rather have DNA forming into a gun rather than
00:50:07
Speaker
greasy tentacles going over and making Daniel speak. Give me something James Bond. I'm not a married biologist. I'm going to move on from that joke. No, that was fantastic. Before we go into the ending, I have a gripe with Madeleine Swann.
00:50:27
Speaker
Just a gripe. I could actually hear you raise your eyebrow there. Just a gripe. I do not like Madeline Swan's character at all. And I'm going to preface this by saying I haven't seen the actress in any other role outside of James Bond. So this is like no offense to her. She probably is a fantastic actress elsewhere. I think maybe it's to do with the writing. Madeline is like a plank of wood in the middle of the desert. You kind of think,
00:50:55
Speaker
how did that get there? And then you move on. There is no charisma, no chemistry with Daniel Craig. See this is the thing, in Spectre it really irked me that, because you know how it goes in these films where he gets the girl or doesn't like in Casino Royale, you know he usually gets the girl and seven times out of ten because you know how on Her Majesty's Secret Service I did, you know like he usually gets the girl and when he doesn't like there's nothing wrong with him not getting the girl
00:51:25
Speaker
this time he really gets to get all batty driving off into the sunset to get married in a vista and everything and I thought it was heartbreaking see when he goes to the tomb of Vesper and you know he's like oh no he regretted like what happened I thought that was very touching and again like the kind of bitch inside me maybe I've been watching too many key dramas so I apologize I'm back here thinking
00:51:48
Speaker
It should have been her, not you, how could you? I was devastated at that, because they keep bringing up Vesper windows if, oh look at this enclosed cinematic universe we're creating, and I'm like, no, you're just reminding us there's a better Bond girl out there, or a Bond woman, sorry, but there's a better love interest out there, and you killed her off in the first film, you're animals! Because obviously, second film, I cannot remember who it was, but she was actually alright. The third film,
00:52:16
Speaker
obviously, the main Bond woman, and that was Javier Bardem. And what a hunk. But no jokes aside, that was more to do with, as you said in the last one, the relationship between Em and Bond. So that was more that focus. For Specter, it's revealed that Madeline is the daughter of Mr. Gray, who's the- Who's the white? Mr. White.
00:52:44
Speaker
mr blog you know mr order new all the neutral colors yeah so today we're going to be m mr beige you should have been called mr beige for the relevance he brought to the plot anyway mr beige as we were saying but this is like the washery tell when the race of our dogs ever
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah, Mr. White, as we were saying, it's revealed that that's his daughter, Madeline is his daughter, and then Bond goes up and then basically, you know, he does the old Tinder icebreaker by saying, hey there, I killed your dad. Em, when they go out and then he escapes with her and you're like,
00:53:20
Speaker
fair enough. Let's go guys. And they go off into the sunset and they get married. But I don't think they get married. I don't know if they do. I don't think they do, but it's basically, it's not implied, but it's like as if they are a married couple that live in this lovely life. They've got the lovely clothes and they're writing about in Italy and I think you buggers, we're still in lockdown. But we're not now, but back then.
00:53:48
Speaker
She's okay in the beginning, kind of, she's bearable. Something that annoys me is two of the big twists, one that she's pregnant, and I honestly felt as if this was like a rom-com. So you know in every rom-com that there's always that twist where it's like halfway through the film.
00:54:06
Speaker
It's revealed that the woman or the man, whoever misunderstands their love interests, meaning for something. So throughout the entire beginning, she keeps saying, Bond, I have to tell you something, and he's getting shot. He's getting blown up. He jumped off a bridge.
00:54:27
Speaker
He's got tinnitus probably after exploding, so he can't hear, which after a minute, that was a nice touch. Just props to the audio people for this film. Fantastic work. You know, a motorcycle's up. I don't even know what that was, but a motorcycle's up. It does an amazing stunt. You know, he's getting shot and everything, and she keeps repeating the line bond. I have to tell you something, which apparently was, I'm pregnant. That would have saved a good five years of not talking to one another.
00:54:55
Speaker
can i just say and it felt like a rom-com i was like this is the greatest rom-com ever because i thought why didn't she say you know two words i'm pregnant that that's it oh it's all you have to say but no she continued she continued the charade because that's the thing though he thinks that she's like you know part of spectre or
00:55:15
Speaker
quantum or still. They're getting shot at, so it's safe to, you know, assume that that's what he's thinking. And, you know, she just plays into that, and you're like, uh. And again, that's probably for the plot and everything, but in hindsight, it's just dumb. It's really dumb. And what makes it more criminal? And again, I've been fanboying over Ana de Armas.
00:55:35
Speaker
But it's the fact she is so charismatic in comparison to Madeline that when you see Madeline, it's like instead of going to like, you know, like a sweetie shop, you take a wrong turn and you end up in the B&Q, you know, like you end up in the hardware shop where you're like, I wanted ice cream. Instead I'm getting more plagues of wood. When will this end?
00:55:57
Speaker
You know, the sat-nav to these Bond films is way off, but anyway, I digress. The point is, I do not like Madeline's character. I think at the beginning it was interesting the way they set up her relationship with the villain and everything, because it turns out the villain saved her at the beginning.
00:56:12
Speaker
But the villain never, and I think this is something you would do too, it does not go anywhere with the villain at all. You know, he says he's got like a heat boner for Quantum, then he takes out Inspector, and he somehow gets the resources and the people to agree with this philosophy, to lay down their lives and not think, huh, a chemical weapon.
00:56:34
Speaker
or is he not gonna, you know, turn that on us? And this is what I was saying before, it's like this kind of pre-Craig James Bond. If you know what I mean, it's like that kind of, it didn't matter what the henchmen thought. The henchmen were the henchmen, you know, they just like drove the cars and got blown up and everything. But then that's the thing as well though, because you've got like a good couple of them who like are clearly independent thinkers, and yet somehow they still get killed off in brutal ways. But I did not
00:57:03
Speaker
like her character and the reveal that Bond and her had a child. Like what did you think of this? Personally I didn't hate the idea because I thought this was a good film in terms of exploring an older Bond but I did not like it. See if it was, and this is going to sound terrible, but see if it was with any other love interest. Anyone. I would take Christmas Jones or whatever it is. I would take um Dr. Goode, a celloist. Dr. Goode, I would take her. Pissing anybody.
00:57:33
Speaker
it was anybody. Yeah, it was Madeline that he had to settle down with, and I just think her character is just, she is the least interesting part of this whole series. As I said, considering we've got LaShanna Lynch, we've got Ana de Armas in this film, both women in Moneypenny, who our actor's name is escaping me just now.
00:57:55
Speaker
Naomi Harris, that's it, thank you. Yeah, Naomi Harris. I knew it began with Naomi something. I was like, what is it? But yeah, you know, you've got all these like really great actresses and, you know, they're, as I said, dripping with charisma and everything. Really so much fun to watch. And then you've got Madeleine. And Madeleine is just like, oh, you don't know the secrets that I hold. And you're like, can I just spit them out?
00:58:18
Speaker
Because time is over the essence here. Gonna chop, chop, mad? No, Madison, sorry, I'm thinking of heavy rate. Madeline, chop, chop, Madeline. But what did you think? I liked it in principle, but again it's that thing of like, it's a good idea, but it's just not fleshed out enough.
00:58:33
Speaker
it's just added into the mix you know it's like oh here he goes got a child like that should have been like a whole central thing in itself and it felt like just another strand you know this film was dangling around so like again i love it in principle but yeah they're just it's just not executed well and that's really the flaw that the big like flaw this film i think it just doesn't execute
00:58:52
Speaker
Again, I like the idea of it because it feels like it is a bond at the last end of his tenure, where he's settling down and he wants a more quiet, relaxed life and things compared to what he's been through. That would be good, but the fact is the centre of everything.
00:59:11
Speaker
this but with the exception of the villain who again he's just not well fleshed out at all but it's just the fact that i don't know i just i don't know what to think and i think that's the problem there's no like as we alluded to before there's no definitive stances on this film especially with their plot lines it's like either you know oh we're gonna be wacky here or oh we're gonna be this or that you know there's no middle ground or no sorry there is a middle ground that's the problem it's like there's no like either this or that it's the
00:59:40
Speaker
Yeah, maybe. But that's what I struggle with the most, I think. They didn't commit enough to certain aspects. But before we get onto the ending, can we touch on the villain? Like, I'm curious to hear your opinion, because sorry, that was just a bitter diatribe. Yeah, like, as I said before, like, I just, I think the villain is just disappointing. It's just there for the sake of there being, like, you know, a main villain.
01:00:02
Speaker
Like, he doesn't add anything to the film. Outside of his, he has a fantastic intro, and then it goes nowhere. It just rapidly, like, dissolves into, oh, I, you know, I want to take over the world with, as I said, like, whatever MacGuffin I have this week. Oh, it's nanobots. And, yeah, there's just nothing, there's nothing to him.
01:00:17
Speaker
I don't know, like, Rami Malek is a really good actor, but I guess he's got nothing to work with here. He gives a certain creepy, like, quality to the villain, but he's just such a generic milquetoast villain that even when he's threatening a child's life, like, I really couldn't get that interested and worked up, because especially, like, since he lets the child go the minute the child, like, the child bites him and he's like, alright, well, you can bugger off now. Just like, well, that was a stupid move, but anyway, like, yeah, I don't know. There for the sake of there being a villain is what it felt like.
01:00:47
Speaker
again it does seem like the mustached whirlwind villains of the old days doesn't it yeah it's basically it's a callback to that almost reminds me of like do you remember moonraker oh how could i forget where literally it was just a guy who was like i want i want a space what was it he wants a space like society or something yeah he looks like his like perfect genetically pure like you know human race
01:01:08
Speaker
which was again which was a rip-off of um oh what was the other one The Spy Who Loved Me which was incredible but we'll get to that film one day don't you worry guys he's listening at home but yeah it kind of felt like that like at the beginning as you said you only had this like really fleshed out idea of he's very sinister he's willing to shoot a child and then he saves the child you know it's very interesting plot points and then it just goes nowhere it fizzles out by the end of it and they've never really explained the mask
01:01:36
Speaker
Do they? No, not at all. Unless I'm missing something, so apologies. Anyone listen to this, please feel free to let me know, but I genuinely don't remember. He's into Japanese architecture as well. Yeah, he's got a hard-on for Japanese cultural influences. Yeah, because he's got the plants that are poisonous or something, and it's like, yay.
01:01:58
Speaker
And that's it. I don't know why. I get it genuinely. No time to ask why. That should have been the title of this film. There's a lot we are just like, I don't know why this is happening. It's like, please put me out my misery. I don't get it. It just seems like a bit of a waste. But do you know what else is a waste? I was about to say the ending of that.
01:02:21
Speaker
Yeah, well yeah, the romance with Madeline is a waste. Yeah, let's talk about the ending. Because you said earlier you really like the ending. So for any listeners out there, please feel free to cover your ears if you don't want the end end of this to be spoiled. In the ending, Bond of course goes head to head with the main villain, you know, toe to toe, mano a mano. And then Malick ends up crushing like this gem, isn't it, that's filled with nanobooks and blood and things? A very crystal type thing.
01:02:49
Speaker
yeah and then he touches Bond and it turns out it's like the biological warfare equivalent of cooties. It's like because he's touched it he touches Bond so Bond's got it which means that if he touches Madeline then Madeline's gonna die and so is their child or something and I think the implication was if he goes through life and touches other people and then one day there could be a possibility that they touch
01:03:16
Speaker
you know Madeline and then she dies or something or the daughter dies or something which i'm kind i'm kind of conflicted about because weren't all the spectre people infected as well or am i or am i remembering this wrong do you remember when they're all at the funeral yeah for the spectre people and they say that all the family members like they had an open casket funeral for them which was mistake number one because
01:03:43
Speaker
They ended up touching, you know, the deceased and they got the virus spread to them. And surely there's like hundreds of people out there who have, you know, got this now because, you know, you think of the coroners, everyone else, you know, even if you say, oh, it's okay because... I can't even remember what it was. It's like, oh, it's okay because... It's not coded to like Madeline DNA, that first part, because it's coded to the Spectre DNA.
01:04:10
Speaker
Exactly. The thing that kind of annoyed me was with, and you guys know what I'm building up to, but basically the killing of James Bond. I do agree with you. I think it was a brave choice. I didn't know how to feel about it though. I was genuinely sitting there thinking, was that the right decision? Was it not? I don't.
01:04:34
Speaker
I honestly, I don't know. I sat there thinking, it was good, I think. Again, what annoyed me more was the fact that Madeline was the one who got to drive away in the Aston Martin unscathed, going like, let me tell you about a brave man called James Bond. And I'm like, how dare you take her Majesty's sickest service ending away from? You're two most hated things, the Aston Martin and Madeline.
01:04:58
Speaker
Combined, yeah. I've survived. Combined, it was nothing more than a seething us, gripping the chair going, how could he? It just felt very defeatist. I get the idea that, see if this was any other spy film, you know, it would make sense, it would be like the heroic
01:05:16
Speaker
tell my wife I love her kind of thing because obviously he's gonna be American. But for this it seemed very defeatist and I get he was obviously bleeding and everything and Q's like oh there's no cure and everything and Bond's like okay so it's like okay like I don't know if that was his way of getting out of child support or...
01:05:35
Speaker
you know because seriously he makes no attempt to be like well why don't I isolate myself or is there any like you know hope and cute I'm sorry cute is a baby face 20 something or a 30 something right saying like oh there's no cure it's like oh thank you Q how long will you at Project Cataclysm how long what was your work experience there all right you weren't there so
01:06:04
Speaker
how are you in authority on, you know, obviously examine the DNA or whatever techno babble they want to go. I just felt it was very defeatist for Bond because Bond is one of those characters that embodies this sense of, you know, I guess it's like the stereotypical keeping the British end up as it were, you know, the stiff upper lip, the keep going in the face of adversity, we're never gonna let, you know, evil succeed and everything. And in this one he's just kind of like, I'm tired, bang.
01:06:34
Speaker
It's blown up ironically by the British fleet and you're like, is this the way you want to end? Again, it's an interesting take on it, although I was laughing because people were saying is there an after-credits scene? And apparently at the very end there's a James Bond bull return.
01:06:52
Speaker
Oh really? Oh wow. Yeah, so this isn't the last James Bond, but it is definitely the last Daniel Craig one. He's not coming back. He's definitely not coming back. I was like, maybe he will come back. And I was half expecting him to be like, you're the end of Dark Knight. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Would it be like, I don't know. Madeline would look across a table and say...
01:07:11
Speaker
they just wink because he raises the glass. And that's when they were just cut to black. He's in a better place. He's with Vesper. The girl we should have been with at the beginning. I'm sorry, I really don't. Yeah, before we wrap up, what are your opinions on this? Because I have been ranting for ages on my opinion on Madeline, but
01:07:31
Speaker
I mean, with the ending, I get what you're saying, that it's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. It's not a perfect ending at all. I like it because I thought it was such a brave decision and I really admire that they decided to kill him off.
01:07:46
Speaker
There's also, it feels like a natural endpoint. And I kind of like the fact that this arc is going to conclude with this version of James Bond's death, because Daniel Craig James Bond doesn't really fit into the rest of the canon in a way that the other Bonds were kind of interchangeable to an extent. Because it was all broad enough that you could believe however we want to make it work. You could believe it was one character. While this James Bond feels so, because we see him from his beginnings in the service
01:08:15
Speaker
his end. It feels like a separate thing so it felt like a natural end for me. I kind of like the way they tied it in, it gave it some kind of emotional impact to me. Again it's not a perfect ending by any stretch but I have to admit I did like it and I thought it was a very like brave decision. And just on Madeline yeah I basically agree with you.
01:08:32
Speaker
I don't want to be mean to anybody, I don't want to be critical to people, and I don't know, I've never seen Lea Sedal in anything else, so I can't speak to her acting ability, but I really think the failings of Madeleine fall at her feet, unfortunately, because I don't think it's a case of the writing, especially in the, maybe to an extent in Spectre, but in this film, I feel like she is an interesting character, I just don't think she does a very good job in portraying it, so I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Miss Sedal, but I have to lay this at your feet, unfortunately.
01:09:00
Speaker
Again, I wanna reinforce or jump on your point there to say we're not trying to be mean to anyone. They're saying, oh, they're the worst thing since Unsliced, but I was about to say Unsliced Butter. This is what this film's done. Unsliced Bread. That's the term. Or Unsliced Butter, which you can buy or t-shirt that. No, I'm joking.
01:09:19
Speaker
But yeah, we're not going out to attack anyone or be like, oh they're the worst thing ever. Because you know, at the end of the day, the actress or actresses can only do so much. I do agree. I think they're partially to blame, but I think it's probably to do with the character. Because as you said, look at Daniel Craig with Bond and
01:09:41
Speaker
Casino Royale, for example, where he's like cocky and smirking all the time. You know, he's got a lot of character and a lot of energy. But then by spectre, you look at him and he's just this sour-faced who doesn't want to be there. Dad, he's like sun's recital kind of thing.
01:09:58
Speaker
He's like I just want to go home. At least he's a bit chipper on this one but I just feel as if maybe if they made it a bit like they're eating a bit tighter overall I think that might have fixed some of the issues. I do agree though there's one point I want to pick out that you were talking about there.
01:10:14
Speaker
I do think Madeline's character is better here than in Spectre. I do agree with you there. She has got more interesting points to her. I just wish it wasn't exposed like some kind of rom-com where it's all double speaking, oh you don't understand and the problems tomorrow and all of this. You're like, come on!
01:10:35
Speaker
like, your adults, there's people's lives at stake, you know, and you're like, oh god. Props to Raimi Malek for, you know, having a trap door, and his zing garden features. Because Malek tries to shoot him. Also, why did they have a pillow next to them to throw up? Was that just a spare pillow to set? Or...
01:10:52
Speaker
just in case, I guess. Is that like a thing that the guards practice? Or is that what you have to do to be in a guard and has like in their circle, you have to shoot pillows in the air? Pass the dreaded pillow test. Is this like anti-quantums, like versionically pigeon suiting? I don't know. Just seemed like a very bizarre scene. The one other scene before we finish off, one other scene I did want to point out was the tea set and the aircraft. I will admit that did make me chuckle.
01:11:20
Speaker
Although this film was goofy, I did like that, I thought it was quite funny. Yeah, are there any kind of final thoughts from yourself about this film? I would sum this film up by saying I don't love it but I don't hate it. I think it's solid, I think it's average and so for me like sliding it into like the whole canon of the Daniel Craig, James Bond arc
01:11:41
Speaker
It's in the middle for me. It's number three. It's nowhere near as good for me as Casino Royale or Skyfall, but I do think it is better than both Quantum of Solace and Spectre. So I think an admirable attempt to round off a series with a lot of interesting ideas and some great action set pieces, but just a serious lack of focus, an underwhelming villain and too long length and just like an inconsistent tone kind of really detract from it. I agree with that as well.
01:12:08
Speaker
It's definitely the third best out of the Daniel Craig ones at least. It's not as bad as Quantum or Spectre. Like I would say Quantum was boring. It wasn't necessarily the worst one but it was just boring and it could have had a bit more, I don't know, energy to it or humour or you know like
01:12:27
Speaker
That's for another day, when we deep dive into that. Spectre was an absolute mess.
Fixing Spectre's Issues in the New Film
01:12:32
Speaker
As we've established, Spectre was an absolute mess. I feel as if this one does try to rectify some of the issues. I feel as if having Spectre and things in it wasn't the best call, personally. Like, I don't know. Like, I'm not gonna try and poop on this album and say, oh, if you enjoyed it, you're the worst thing since unsliced butter, as we've established.
01:12:51
Speaker
But I do agree. I think that this is definitely the third best. It has a lot of nice callbacks. The On Her Majesty's Secret Service is nice. What I liked as well was the fact that I went to see this with my family. Two out of three of them aren't James Bond fans. So they didn't pick up on the On Her Majesty's Secret Service like hints. So I thought that was quite clever. They managed to put in like subtle hints about what was gonna happen later on in the film.
Film's Merits and Surprises
01:13:19
Speaker
So I did. I liked that, I have to say. I thought that was really, really... I thought that was really well done. It is a somber film. I would still recommend people go see it because despite its failings, it's not a boring film. Would you say you were if I bored in this film Adam?
01:13:36
Speaker
No, I would, I mean, there's a couple of points maybe where I was a little bored because I do think this film is too long, but this was nowhere near like Spectre levels. Like I didn't, I didn't sit through this film bored like I did with Spectre. So yeah, I would say it's not a boring film by any stretch.
01:13:50
Speaker
I would definitely recommend it. Or I would recommend seeing it at least to round off the Daniel Craig series because it's definitely not the best of them but it's by far not the worst. If you want to punish yourself that badly go watch Spectre. Try and find a director's cut if that exists. I doubt anybody would be looking for that but yeah it's quite an interesting and again I'm throwing the puns into me but it is an interesting swan song to Daniel Craig's run.
01:14:20
Speaker
Did you actually expect they would have pulled anything like that off? Like as in... Like just killing it off. I did wonder but I honestly didn't think they would, to be honest. So that was a big surprise.
01:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, now I'm the same. Like, I'm not gonna pretend I'm one of these people like, oh well, actually, if he wants spectre, you know, no, not at all. Because you don't expect them to kill off their title character, so that was a bit jarring, but yeah, go see it, really. That's all I can say. If you're an orc, then go see it. Shout out to Kirkwall, awesome city. Or, awesome police. I don't know if it does account as a city.
01:14:59
Speaker
I would say more of a town. More of a town. I'd say maybe up that part. It's more of a town, I think, anywhere else.
Conclusion of Discussion
01:15:04
Speaker
Yeah. See, this is how bad the film is. I'm talking about the technicalities of work.
01:15:11
Speaker
Yeah, probably more of a town, but yeah, I apologise to my fanbase. We love you. Yeah, Adam, thank you so much for joining me in this No Time To Die discussion. My pleasure. It was nice to round it off, you know, it was nice. We did talk about it when we finished off, you know, Daniel Gregor expected. We were like, oh, we'll have to review No Time To Die when we both get a chance to watch it. So I'm glad that we were able to do it. So next week, we're going to be reviewing Call Of Duty Vanguard, which was another one of it.
01:15:41
Speaker
Yeah, one day, one day we'll get to that. But yeah, no, that was
Upcoming Content and Reviews
01:15:45
Speaker
true. And yeah, if you want to hear any more of our opinions on James Bond, if you look at our episode library, you can actually see our, well, our views on the Timothy Dalton films, which was a great episode, can they just say?
01:15:57
Speaker
not blowing our own horns here but grey episode and yeah our Daniel Craig retrospective which of course excluded this film unfortunately because I don't think I think No Time To Die wasn't out at the time so we couldn't review it so that was a shame when we're missing out but yep we have rounded it off as you said we're gonna try and escape from this island before we get horribly desolated oh it's too late no save yourself oh no tell Madeline I think she's not very good
01:16:27
Speaker
I'm good. It's like, do you know what it actually reminds me of? Just before we finish, have you ever seen Captain America? You know at the very end where it's like he's crashing the hydro ship and he's like, I'm
Comparing Bond and Captain America
01:16:39
Speaker
going to have to take a rain check. That's almost what it felt like when he was on the thing. It's like, no James, you can escape the island. I mean, he could have drove into the water. I mean,
01:16:48
Speaker
It was a big drop, but I see your point. He could have attempted. That's what I'm saying. Instead of doing the Captain America. Oh, no, I'm going to have to take a rain check, Peggy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Madeline. You're breaking up. You know, like that. But on that note, there's no time to try and justify this. Yeah, that is the last no time pun. And yeah, as always, guys, thank you all so, so much for listening to this episode. Stay safe. Stay awesome. Stay hydrated.
01:17:17
Speaker
And yeah, go check it out.