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#390 Take your kid to work day
2.8k Plays6 days ago
TOPICS:
- Take your kid to work day
- Saunders bought another lathe
- "I'm stumped" - Saunders
- Wazer waterjet at Grimsmo
- Hardmilling
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Format
00:00:01
John S
Good morning. Welcome to the Business of Machining, episode number 390. Also one of my favorite, Sandvik End Mills, the 390.
00:00:08
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:00:08
John S
My name is John Saunders.
00:00:09
johngrimsmo
And my name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:11
John S
ah John and I talk about why we're what's on our mind each week as small business
Claire's Visit & Hands-on Learning
00:00:16
John S
entrepreneurs. What's on your mind?
00:00:19
johngrimsmo
um Lots of things are on my mind and lots of things are on the go right now. The big, big thing today, it's take your kid to work day.
00:00:27
John S
Oh.
00:00:27
johngrimsmo
Like officially, like the high school, Claire's in grade nine. And it's like, you know, every kid has to find a parent and go to school, go to work. um So it's kind of cool because Claire has been here many times, but she's never like seen, I think your kids see what you do more because my my kids don't pay attention to the work so much to the shop.
00:00:47
johngrimsmo
um So it's really cool to start to show her around and have her, this is what employees do all day kind of thing. And since we have a team of a lot of people that each have their own responsibilities and it's not just the machines, and it's not just the ah people, it's kind of all of it.
00:01:02
johngrimsmo
What is all of it put together? So, so far, it's been, it's been really fun. It's been a great day.
00:01:08
John S
Good. That's good to hear.
00:01:09
johngrimsmo
And then right now I handed her off to, she's liking it.
00:01:09
John S
That's awesome. she Is she liking it?
00:01:12
johngrimsmo
She's asking a lot of really good questions. um I just handed her off to Eric and all the guys in the front in the finishing shop. um And she's putting a pen together for herself. So she's going to anodize it herself.
00:01:23
johngrimsmo
And Eric's going to teach her how to polish titanium and she's already realized that you know metal gets hot when you polish it right all these things she doesn't know and you don't know until you do um so it's really cool it's it's neat to see her ask questions um and it's like i'm joking that this is the one day where she has to listen to like every nerdy thing I have to say.
00:01:26
John S
That's awesome
00:01:30
John S
oh that's funny yeah
00:01:37
John S
but
00:01:47
John S
awesome. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Right. Well, your safety and learning and yeah.
00:01:49
johngrimsmo
Totally. Yeah. I basically, I told her certain things like, you know, a a dangling um hoodie, ah tassels, loose sleeves, like these machines can suck you in.
00:01:52
John S
No,
00:02:00
johngrimsmo
And yeah, only like, so actually our lapping machine is the one I was showing it to when I I explained that and I'm like, yeah, this big spinning disc, like it's, it doesn't care about you.
00:02:00
John S
just only lathes,
00:02:12
johngrimsmo
Right. Yeah, exactly. And and these are the lessons that can only be you know picked up. You don't intuitively know all these things. Somebody has to tell you not to put your finger there um so that you don't.
00:02:25
John S
John. Oh, Verna. It sure has some power. Yeah, yeah
00:02:27
johngrimsmo
And it's cool. It's but it's fun to to think back on all the little lessons, all the little you know tidbits that I've heard over the years and instruct this young creative mind.
00:02:38
johngrimsmo
She's a very artistic person with you know drawing and paint and stuff. So it's really fun to, you know she has to listen to me talk about my artistic side, the parts that I've made.
00:02:49
John S
yeah.
00:02:50
johngrimsmo
I bring these things home all the time and she's like, yeah, I've seen it before, but okay, today I'm gonna explain it to you. It's cool,
00:02:57
John S
That's awesome.
Family Dynamics in Business
00:02:58
johngrimsmo
yeah.
00:02:58
John S
I had bring your wife to work day, which is mostly a joke because Yvonne is an absolute awesome member of the team, which I think we talked about this some before on the podcast.
00:03:09
johngrimsmo
little bit not much on the podcast yeah
00:03:10
John S
But she, to be just kind of cut to the table, she was not interested in working together or, you know, for me or whatnot. Like, we're better off having our own independent careers.
00:03:20
John S
She had a phenomenal career in the retail industry. And then she ran a nonprofit. And then that transitioned to a new executive director after she kind of got off the ground and she was kind of looking for something to do.
00:03:29
johngrimsmo
A little bit not much on the podcast. Yeah
00:03:31
John S
And I sort of said, hey, there's a bunch of things that would be great to help get off my plate. Not sure where it would go with no, that was the nice way about it with no expectations of like, hey, you're coming on board as a full-time XYZ with this commitment.
00:03:45
John S
But it was more of a, if it works, we'll keep doing it. And I mean, you can read lots of books or anecdotes about like the perils of family businesses or mixing that sort of stuff.
00:03:49
johngrimsmo
Thank
00:03:55
John S
But it has worked to be blunt. And it has worked because we certainly interact, but by and large, she runs operations, quoting, sales, a ton of other stuff.
00:04:07
John S
So we interface as need be, but she has a lot of autonomy. She does a great job. Her background with doing international sales and merchandising for retail clothing actually has some parallels to like, hey, let's look at our open to buy, like distributor relationships and where we are in inventory levels and the management systems, all that, all of a long winded way of saying yesterday, I got her to run to foil wrap a heat treat part.
00:04:33
John S
And it was the first time we've ever crossed that bridge. It was wonderful.
00:04:38
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:04:39
John S
I was last week, I had too much on my plate and she's like, what can I do to help? And I'm like, honestly, this, like finish wrapping this. It's not particularly difficult, but the same thing, like, you know, you talking about Clara kind of reminded me like, okay, when you wrap heat, we don't use the bags because our parts are too large for cost-effective bags.
00:04:58
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:04:58
John S
The bags are like $12 each and we can wrap it way cheaper.
00:05:01
John S
And we don't, we, we do so little of it. Um, so I showed her, you know, double double wrap wrap it it the roller the crimping like how you want it to be done and she i had another one to do yesterday i was like hey you up for that the foil is back by the oven and she's like yeah it's on this back there on the oven i looked i'm like oh my god this looks so good like she's a much better gift wrapper uh than i am well she's yeah so that was kind of fun.
00:05:20
johngrimsmo
yeah.
00:05:23
johngrimsmo
That's amazing. And I mean, that foil wants to cut you.
00:05:24
John S
Oh, yes.
00:05:25
johngrimsmo
like It's very thin.
00:05:28
John S
I cut myself last week and she has not shed blood.
00:05:33
johngrimsmo
good Good.
00:05:33
John S
Yeah.
00:05:36
johngrimsmo
So that's officially the first kind of hands-on in the shop that she's been tasked with, right?
00:05:37
John S
Yeah. I I mean, mean, it's it's mostly mostly a a joke. joke. She Like she has has no no interest interest in in running running machines machines and and all all that.
00:05:44
johngrimsmo
Totally, totally. But yeah but that's amazing.
00:05:46
John S
that. It's It's
Manual Lathe & Shop Needs
00:05:48
johngrimsmo
That's cool.
00:05:48
John S
fun.
00:05:48
John S
fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other, I mean, just I hope you're sitting down for this. I can see you're sitting down. Are you ready to hear about the new machine we just bought?
00:05:59
johngrimsmo
I'm always ready. Is it is it a la
00:06:00
John S
It is not only a lathe, it is a manual lathe. So
00:06:07
johngrimsmo
i would say cringe but i'm actually kind of excited for you
00:06:12
John S
this is hardly scintillating bomb material, but the team wanted a manual lathe. We needed to trim a part yesterday. That was the first time since we sold our Emco blue lathe, which has probably been over a year ago.
00:06:25
John S
The first time that we've really been without one. Because the oddball, shortening screws is like a metaphoric thing that I dislike.
00:06:29
johngrimsmo
it a labe oh i would say cringe but i'm actually kind of excited for you
00:06:34
John S
It's like, just buy the right size screws. Like, we should not be shortening screws full stop. That's not good use of our time. And if you need to, put a screw in a cordless drill, walk over to the belt grinder, and you can shorten a screw pretty quick.
00:06:45
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:06:46
John S
This part, we needed to actually have a lathe to trim it down. And I had planned on buying the Precision Matthews. They have approximately $3,000, a little more actually, if you've got the DRO, four or 500 pounds.
00:07:00
John S
And the research showed it was the best China lat.
00:07:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:07:06
John S
And, you know, spending that kind of money on this would not have been a problem. But then I just was like, I just wasn't like just wasn't clicking. I was kind of dragging my feet subconsciously. And then I was like, no, we're not doing anything other than like literally taking a screw and like like hacking off a little bit.
00:07:23
John S
We're not doing any sort of work to precision levels whatsoever. And so I actually just bought the Vivo or Vivo, whatever you say, Amazon seven by 14, like rewind back to New York days when I had a micro mark seven by 14, which frankly was a decently fine machine.
00:07:33
johngrimsmo
No way. Yep.
00:07:41
johngrimsmo
And is this like like the baby mini lathe kind of thing?
00:07:41
John S
Yeah. Like same sort of casting as you'll see in Harbor Freight. Allegedly, the Viva reviews are a bit better.
00:07:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:07:50
John S
But look, $499 free shipping. I got a quick change tool post for it. We need like two inserts on it to, yeah, like that was like, okay, great.
00:07:55
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:07:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:08:01
John S
And look, honestly, if I find out it's a mistake, we can donate it or sell it and buy the right one. You thought all that.
00:08:07
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
Evolution of Manufacturing Tools
00:08:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I was at, we've got a shop around the corner, friends of ours that do automotive, a lot of automotive projects.
00:08:11
John S
Right.
00:08:16
johngrimsmo
They build cars and everything. And they had one of those, you know, Harbor Freight mini lathes, like the tiny little ones, same one probably. And walking in there I was actually kind of jealous. like I'm like, I wish I had that.
00:08:30
John S
We have the old, our old Bison 5C. This is from, oh yeah.
00:08:34
johngrimsmo
that's not gonna fit on it
00:08:36
John S
This is what I bought.
00:08:36
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:08:38
John S
We did old YouTube videos on this. I bought this for the MicroMark blade back in, I actually had this in New York City, like in Manhattan before I moved out to the Burbs. Um, cause I wanted to run five C stuff on that.
00:08:48
John S
And so this was probably the most expensive thing. I, this Chuck was almost as expensive as the lathe, which for me, for John Saunders in 2000, whatever, nine, that was a, that was a big deal and I kept it so it'll get reused.
00:09:00
John S
So yeah, that's kind of the size, but the Grizzly one is more plus shipping.
00:09:02
johngrimsmo
7x12. So, same thing. Just a bit The fact that you can buy a lathe and have it shipped to you from Amazon is is kind of silly.
00:09:08
John S
I mean, it's just like, look, and I'm kind of like laying it all out there. Like, this is China all day long, like free shipping Amazon. But what, hey, you know, for what we need it for, it should be fine.
00:09:20
John S
Oh, yeah, all right.
00:09:23
johngrimsmo
Even though that's a tiny one like
00:09:24
John S
But there are all these, I don't want to get here and sit here and wax poetic, but there are all these things that are heartwarmingly different than when I started the manufacturing stuff in 2007 or 2008, where I think back to StrikeMark and building that target, and now it's like there's PCBWave for the circuit boards, there's SenCutSend, there's Zometry or whoever you want to use for outsourcing machine to parts.
00:09:25
johngrimsmo
probably ways hundred pounds
00:09:46
johngrimsmo
it's a tiny one, like, probably weighs 100 pounds.
00:09:46
John S
There's, um, 3d printing didn't even exist for all practical purposes. Like, oh my gosh. Um, and then just the fact that like, I was kind of the oddball finding the micro mark catalog.
00:09:58
John S
They probably had a website too, but like looking through a catalog at these little lays and now it's like, oh, he's going to Amazon, buy one for cheap.
00:09:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:10:03
johngrimsmo
You're basically saying kids these days have it so easy.
00:10:04
John S
Yeah, exactly.
00:10:06
johngrimsmo
but Old man Saunders over there saying I
00:10:09
John S
Yeah.
Machining Reliability & Efficiency
00:10:11
John S
Yeah. Boomer time. Or what is it?
00:10:11
johngrimsmo
love it.
00:10:13
johngrimsmo
who Yeah, exactly.
00:10:13
John S
Okay, Boomer. No,
00:10:17
johngrimsmo
Cool. So it's in like you've used it
00:10:20
John S
it's the quick change tool post just showed up.
00:10:22
johngrimsmo
okay
00:10:22
John S
It should be here this week.
00:10:23
johngrimsmo
that's fine
00:10:25
John S
We actually also got a toggle press, but I'll talk about that next week. I've been hogging the time here.
00:10:29
johngrimsmo
okay and't know what a toggle press is but i'll save it for next week. I don't have too much on my list tonight. um One of the the joys and annoyances with having overnight equipment, like CNC machines that run when you're gone, especially on the current where I can log into the control and you know just check.
00:10:50
johngrimsmo
Is it still running? Is it good? So last night I was literally in my pajamas already. It's going to bed early. I was like, I'm going to make it a good night. I'm going to go to bed early, get a good sleep tonight.
00:11:02
johngrimsmo
Quick log into the current, broken tool.
00:11:04
John S
No.
00:11:05
johngrimsmo
And I'm like, okay, what do I do? do Yeah, I really do want to have this run finished, make the parts so that in the morning, you know, we've got a different day today. Some of the guys are off. So like, if we have those parts, everything's going to run smoothly.
00:11:17
John S
yeah
00:11:17
johngrimsmo
Fine. Get dressed again, go back to work. I live 12 minutes away. So it's not so bad, but um got this tool replaced and it turns out my mistake i was making a fixture unattended at night and uh the way i did the tool path basically plunged a 116th and gen mill in the side of the part when it should have started on the outside and worked its way in um so i broke a couple of those before i realized that i did it wrong and quick reprogram, got it running and then scheduled for the rest of the night.
00:11:29
John S
Yeah.
00:11:37
John S
Oh, yeah, right.
00:11:48
johngrimsmo
And the regular stuff runs fine. like But this brings me to a point of getting your machines and your production dialed to the point where you never break tools, like in a perfect world, right?
00:11:51
John S
yeah
00:12:01
johngrimsmo
You you use a tool until it's you know just hanging on with with minutes left of tool life and then ideally you replace it just in time and you're not wasting too much leaving too much on the table kind of thing um and we've we've pretty much got that for all of our knife production especially on the current and on speedio and on the mori and everything we we don't break tools regularly if a couple of months if that.
00:12:09
John S
Yeah.
00:12:25
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:12:27
johngrimsmo
We've got it quite dialed until we throw something new in the mix and we're like, oh, right, everything's not gravy.
00:12:31
John S
right
00:12:32
johngrimsmo
like I spent four years learning how to make a RASC and how to not break tools.
00:12:33
John S
yeah
00:12:37
johngrimsmo
And then I try to make this fixture and I'm like, oh, I forgot. But we find we tend to replace tools earlier than they probably need to, but we found that that is the reliable point.
00:12:49
John S
You're right.
00:12:50
johngrimsmo
You know, if 200 minutes it breaks relatively consistently, we'll replace it at 150 or something, and then it never breaks all of a sudden, right?
00:12:50
John S
Yeah.
00:12:58
John S
Yeah, at some point, I guess the question is, do you want to be the kind of company that dedicates the resources to putting ah value on that
00:13:06
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Well, in the downtime of having a machine stuck with a broken tool, it's like all night of being down.
00:13:12
John S
yeah sure
00:13:14
johngrimsmo
um We don't have the current setup to do, you know, put the pallet away, grab the next one and keep running. That's just a bunch of extra logic that I would have to change a lot of things to do.
00:13:25
johngrimsmo
so And we don't have to.
00:13:29
John S
that dedicates the resources to putting a value on that yeah sure
00:13:30
johngrimsmo
But that's where was I going with that?
00:13:34
John S
But the ah the counterpoint of that is, but you could be leaving, I don't know, probably tens of thousands of dollars on the table.
00:13:34
johngrimsmo
Oh.
00:13:41
John S
I mean, I'm making this number up, but, and I don't, I'm with you i don't know that again it reminds me back to like when you hear the stories about like hey the the founder i'm just talking like
00:13:51
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:13:51
John S
broadspo the founder isn't necessarily the right person to run the company at to certain fees you find a company that's now reaching eight figures of revenue and another layer of teams or management.
00:14:03
John S
It's like, hey, somebody's going to come in. I don't know what the term is, you know, process blah, blah, engineer. But like, hey, someone's going to start to evaluate how much.
00:14:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:14:09
John S
like broad spoke here. And it's it's probably not that hard. You look at what's the most expensive carbide or the ones that get used the most. And then you start thinking about like, where do we push it?
00:14:15
johngrimsmo
sure start there yeah
00:14:17
John S
But I look at my, just being very candid. I look at my business very differently. Like we're doing fine. Other things I can tackle. So I'm not going to worry about it, but that doesn't mean it's not, you know, real.
00:14:25
johngrimsmo
yeah totally. I put more value on reliability and predictability than I do on the pennies saved on each thing.
00:14:29
John S
we
00:14:36
johngrimsmo
And maybe that's to a bit of our detriment. We could be leaving profit on the table, but we have reliable processes that run overnight and that makes us more money.
00:14:46
johngrimsmo
I
00:14:48
John S
sure
00:14:51
John S
yeah
00:14:53
johngrimsmo
was showing Clara our bin of scrap carbide. I was like, this is an end mill. This is different tools for different jobs, engraving, bigger tools, smaller tools. And I had to explain this whole thing.
00:15:03
johngrimsmo
And I was like, most of these still still look look good don't they went under the microscope and i saw some micro pitting and some chips and stuff i'm like well here's here's one of the reasons why we replace it and we learn how to do that yeah
00:15:06
John S
Sure. Yeah. Isn't that funny? So on that note, we got the Rego system mostly because of the Willimon.
00:15:20
John S
We bought some Cat40s because why not? At that point, it's not that much more money to get some verticals. I thought we might find a use for them. Um, but really didn't have a, wasn't focused on that.
00:15:32
John S
And Caleb grabbed one and is using it for cutting the hat. It's funny, actually thinking about this, I would not have, I would not have encouraged him to do this.
00:15:42
John S
Cause it's like, wasn't, wouldn't have been been on on my lowest, but it's a great win. He replaced the holder that we use that holds an end mill that cuts the has off the outside of the plate.
00:15:49
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:15:54
John S
So we've always struggled with this because it is oftentimes about one end mill per plate, but that is still significantly cheaper than any method that gets rid of the has.
00:15:55
johngrimsmo
kind
00:16:07
John S
So like wet water jetting or having them saw cut, et cetera.
00:16:09
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:16:11
John S
So it's just kind of like, you just build that into your margin that you're going to have a 20 to $40 end mill per steel fixture plate that just has to cut through the has. And there's other strategies about conventional cutting it and the speeds and fees and all that.
00:16:20
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:16:24
John S
But nevertheless, it was never something where we were like, oh, we got this nailed down. He switched it to a RegoFix.
00:16:29
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:16:32
John S
He's on his fifth plate.
00:16:33
johngrimsmo
no way
00:16:34
John S
Now, I wish I had more like backing up. Is it the run out? Is it the vibration dampening? Is it a fluke?
00:16:40
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:16:40
John S
I don't know. And I'm definitely like not the guy who's like, oh, yeah, you should invest in XYZ system. It'll prove to a life. Just like you, I'm kind of like, eh.
00:16:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah. No way. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:48
John S
But so far it's like, oh wow, that's legit.
00:16:52
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah well and that it comes down to the operator getting sick of doing a job and seeing a possible other solution and saying you know i'm gonna try it that's cool.
00:16:53
John S
Right.
00:17:01
johngrimsmo
Good for him.
00:17:01
John S
Yeah, which is great too.
00:17:02
johngrimsmo
to yeah and are Are you trying to get like a nice finish from this tool or is it just a roughing tool, you finish it later kind of thing?
00:17:03
John S
Cause it's like, hey, that's at this point didn't really cost anything. Like if it wasn't better, I think we should have just gone back to whatever we had, milling check or something. Finishes later, this is just to blow the highs off.
00:17:20
johngrimsmo
Okay. so The tool can't die, but it can get a little chewed up it's goingnna get chewed up
00:17:21
John S
Yeah. Oh, it does. But he knows it from load or sound, and now that thing is just cranking.
00:17:30
johngrimsmo
got it cool you should be able to hear it
00:17:33
John S
It's awesome.
00:17:34
johngrimsmo
and sound from the holder you know like
00:17:35
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:17:37
johngrimsmo
we running before yeah er something
00:17:39
John S
Couldn't tell you. Yeah.
00:17:41
johngrimsmo
that's but
00:17:42
John S
Yeah.
00:17:42
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:17:43
John S
I mean, whatever they want. Like, we have million chucks. We've got big big guy show of college chucks. We've got, I don't even know, hydraulic, like there's other stuff.
00:17:49
johngrimsmo
up. You should be able to hear it in sound from the holder. That's funny. Have you ever used Heatrink?
00:17:52
John S
We used to have the Mari tool heat drink system and we sold it.
00:17:52
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:17:56
John S
Yeah.
00:17:56
johngrimsmo
Okay. I've never touched Heatrink.
00:17:57
John S
Look, it's still, yeah, it's still frankly such a cool concept.
00:17:58
johngrimsmo
Doesn't seem that interesting to
00:18:06
John S
There's, I I think guess, there are probably great reasons for it, and Dennis is a big fan of it. But even the state-of-the-art $50,000 Hymer heat shrink system, which is beautiful, it's still getting the tool in the holder hot, and it still takes like 10 seconds to cool it off.
00:18:20
John S
I guess there's just pros and cons.
00:18:24
johngrimsmo
here
00:18:25
John S
If you're doing work like Dennis where you need lots of long tools for five access stuff, that I think makes more sense and certainly cheaper, potentially cheaper than the Rego build up between Hallarder and Collett.
00:18:29
johngrimsmo
me.
00:18:32
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:18:37
johngrimsmo
for sure
00:18:40
John S
yeah
00:18:43
johngrimsmo
yeah I had to buy some 4mm Rego collets for the hard milling tools that I've got on order. And I ordered the tools first and then I realized, oh crap, these are 4mm shank.
00:18:54
johngrimsmo
I don't have any. Same thing, right?
00:18:55
John S
same thing literally same thing
00:18:57
johngrimsmo
and then But when an ER collet is $20 and a PG collet is $200, I'm like, Oh, right. those Those are a lot of money.
00:19:07
John S
Same thing. Literally same thing. Oh. With the hard milling, I'm happy to so to write all day long because it's like this is...
00:19:10
johngrimsmo
That's where I'm at. A hundred percent. Right. I was like, I could put this in an ER call it, but I'm like, hold on. We're, we're hard milling. We're, we're buying expensive tools. We're trying to minimize everything. Like it has to go in PG.
00:19:21
johngrimsmo
We already have this set up. There's, there's no discussion there. So I had that internal battle for about six and a half seconds. And I was like, what are you doing?
00:19:27
John S
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, ask me that when we break a, break a collet or something and I'm grumpy about it, I guess, but no, it's, it's ah that, like, I'm actually, I'm at least happy that it's not, ah it doesn't seem to be gray zone about the improvements.
00:19:33
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:19:43
John S
Like when Grant's talked about it on the Willam and with the finishes and the feed forward lines and whatnot, like there's, I'm surprised it's that evident, I guess is what I would say.
00:19:53
johngrimsmo
Good. It's just like everything else with good equipment is it takes a variable out of the equation.
00:19:55
John S
Yeah.
00:20:00
johngrimsmo
You know, run out is for all intents for all intents and purposes is is not an issue anymore as long as everything's clean.
00:20:07
John S
Yeah. Yep.
00:20:08
johngrimsmo
And then the rigidity is is really good too.
00:20:11
John S
You see Grant's filament for the RegoFix, 3D printed filament?
00:20:14
johngrimsmo
No. No.
00:20:15
John S
Oh, I had a post. Somebody asked for the color.
00:20:17
johngrimsmo
I
00:20:17
John S
heat Grant printed all these Gridfinity RegoFix organization trays.
00:20:20
johngrimsmo
did say that. Yeah,
00:20:21
John S
Then he found a green filament that's almost the same RegoF fix filament and printed the text in lays.
00:20:25
johngrimsmo
he
00:20:26
John S
It looks so dialed.
00:20:28
johngrimsmo
yeah. That's awesome.
00:20:29
John S
Yeah.
00:20:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I really like that, the little napkin holder for all the RegoFix cleaning cloths, like the thing you're talking about, um how we organize that, because we just kind of have ours sitting around.
00:20:35
John S
Oh yeah.
00:20:39
John S
Yeah.
00:20:40
johngrimsmo
It's really
00:20:42
John S
um Okay. Can I bend your ear?
00:20:47
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:20:48
John S
I think about 10 minutes for this podcast, I think Alex just Mike dropped me. I think we figured this out, but I have spent Monday, Tuesday, what is Wednesday?
00:21:00
John S
Yeah. I mean, I was at the shop till 845 last night, which I don't do anymore. Like family, kids. I got, and then I came in at six this morning and said, am I mornings to myself? Um, completely stumped.
00:21:09
johngrimsmo
clean. Yeah?
Fixture Challenges & Solutions
00:21:12
John S
Like one plus one doesn't equal two.
00:21:12
johngrimsmo
he' stued on
00:21:15
johngrimsmo
okay
00:21:16
John S
So, um, I mean, I'm inclined to tell a long story, but and I'm so embarrassed that I'll paraphrase it. We had a fixture where two interpolated features, holes, so female counterboard holes were not measuring correctly.
00:21:28
johngrimsmo
What are you stumped on? Okay.
00:21:35
John S
Like they were off.
00:21:36
johngrimsmo
in relation to each other
00:21:37
John S
Yes.
00:21:38
johngrimsmo
okay
00:21:38
John S
Yes. And we've made the fixture before. um Just they were off and checked the CAD, checked um just what, like, didn't make any sense.
00:21:49
johngrimsmo
in relation to each other okay
00:21:52
John S
And so what really spooked me was, and I can only say, for you you can, I don't know that I would believe somebody else telling the story, but I'm going to tell you the story anyways.
00:22:03
John S
When we first made this fixture about a year ago, maybe a little bit more, same CAD file, same process, same tool and same machine, the same the holes are four inches apart or so.
00:22:09
johngrimsmo
you
00:22:16
John S
The left hole and the right hole were different size. Now, different size, meaning, and I don't remember this exactly, I want to say about a tenth or two, but with the Deltronics pin, two tenths is shockingly wobbly.
00:22:28
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:22:29
John S
Like it is markedly different. um Those were this the CAD file. um The CAD geometry was the same and the um they were done in the same cam operation at the same time.
00:22:41
John S
And so the the likely culprits there didn't add up. I i honestly don't remember what the solution was to that, although I think I actually created a surface body that was ah like one-tenth smaller and lied to it to see if that fixed it.
00:22:56
John S
And it did. So I only bring that up to say that I kind of came into this whole fixture with a prejudice of like something is really flipping weird here.
00:23:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:23:05
John S
And so I remade the fixture, remade more of them, kept trying this, kept not getting results. He was using our mitotoid height gauge, put them in another machine to use it as a CMM, um hard gauged it like as best I could.
00:23:20
John S
Not the easiest thing to hard gauge two ID holes, but nevertheless tried.
00:23:22
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:23:24
John S
And we got, like, we could prove that it was different. Even better, more so, I then started from scratch, extruded a block, two holes, the distance apart, same diameter, um copied and pasted the tool pass into the new Fusion file.
00:23:29
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah
00:23:39
John S
Whenever the machine ran it, dead nuts.
00:23:43
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Which machine are we talking here?
00:23:43
John S
Akuma horizontal. Like the new, the new starting from fusion from scratch, dead nuts. The diameters were great. I see them or put them on the, uh, the Mito Toyu.
00:23:55
John S
I got within one, ten you can get, I mean, it's easy to get wrong answers on that, but never like the first time I tried it. Perfect answer. Put on the Haas, uh, use a Renishaw to probe it that way within sub, like it was zero, zero, zero, zero.
00:24:07
John S
Like it was just like, this is perfect.
00:24:09
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:24:09
John S
Uh, hard gauged it. It was perfect. And this, this time I could hard gauge it cause it was hard gauging against the mating part and that worked perfectly. So I was like, something's right here. And so I'm sitting here thinking that it's some sort of a like floating decimal issue or some tessellation or triangulate.
00:24:25
John S
Like I'm overthinking it, frustrated.
00:24:27
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:24:27
John S
And I think what's happening is the parts moving in the fixture.
00:24:37
johngrimsmo
Oh.
00:24:39
John S
So Alex alex pointed that out. it's a great it's It's a great insight that I didn't think of, period.
00:24:45
johngrimsmo
Theory.
00:24:47
John S
So to a credit to Alex.
00:24:48
johngrimsmo
right
00:24:48
John S
And it's the Occam's razor. It just makes sense. It's far away. I mean, I checked run out. like like oh um I'm not pleading my defense.
00:24:55
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah
00:24:58
John S
I'm just saying i'm I've tried to keep an open mind because the idea of blaming the software is categorically ludicrous. But I also, because of that problem a year ago, I just have this funny feeling about the file and the fact that I created a brand new part.
00:25:09
johngrimsmo
Right. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:10
John S
um And the new part was totally fine. Well, the new part was the same cam operations, but some of the other stuff wasn't happening there um on that part. So same material, same, exactly, same vice.
00:25:21
johngrimsmo
Same part, held in the vise the same way or the...
00:25:25
John S
Just I didn't do all the other work to the fixture. I just did the holes and those test holes fit beautifully.
00:25:28
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:25:31
johngrimsmo
Interesting. I had a very similar thing making the pocket clip for our fjell knife couple a month ago or so on the Williman. And the vise jaw was both...
00:25:42
johngrimsmo
it was It was clamping on a remnant piece of chunk that fell in place of it so it wasn't clamping the part properly and I made like five parts in a row and they were visually wrong and I'm like looking at my cam operations looking at everything like trying to blame everything but but that and so at this point you're not 100% that that's true but it's a perfect theory, like, makes sense.
00:25:54
John S
Yeah.
00:25:57
John S
Yeah.
00:26:04
johngrimsmo
Right?
00:26:04
John S
Yeah. I mean, what I was lamenting with my wife was like, Hey, I've been doing this for 15 years. Like this, something's wrong. Like just something's wrong.
00:26:11
johngrimsmo
Right.
00:26:11
John S
Like the machine's fine. Like it, again, I make a test project. I was going to make another test part just to prove that and again, the machine's okay. Um, and, um, anyway, yeah, that's just, this is what makes so much more sense.
00:26:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:26:24
johngrimsmo
Yes. And and I, yeah, I know exactly what you're going through.
00:26:26
John S
Yeah. I'm disappointed. I mean, yeah.
00:26:31
johngrimsmo
I don't love the lead up, but I love when it finally makes sense. Because like like everything about this is is mechanical. It's linear. It's one plus one is two.
00:26:41
johngrimsmo
Like everything should add up and should math out and should make sense it should do what you're told what it's told and until it does it drives you crazy and then when it starts to make sense the problem the fix whatever you're like i i'm happy now because the whole world makes sense like i think you're getting there, which is awesome.
00:26:56
John S
yeah
00:27:01
John S
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I do think, well, I'm only hesitant because I've had so many thoughts that this could be it. Like I created surface bodies again in this part and I was doing different tasks.
00:27:11
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:27:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:27:14
John S
I switched out holders and I've run out. I just didn't think about.
00:27:18
johngrimsmo
Sure. And sometimes you have to tick off all those boxes. You have to eliminate every variable. Is it the tools, the holders, the machine, the cam, the software, software the the post or whatever and then sometimes you get lucky on the first or second try and sometimes it's the 50th thing you try that find oh of course i forgot the coolant concentration is too high or something something dumb right like i've made these before why is it different now well i can't tell that to the guys too like something's different.
00:27:26
John S
Yeah.
00:27:36
John S
Yeah. Right.
00:27:45
johngrimsmo
we just We're not smart enough to find it yet. Let's keep trying.
00:27:48
John S
Yeah. It's a good reminder. i know Nowhere in this part was I getting greedy on like the cycle time or whatnot. But like I drilled all the holes, I roughed a bunch of holes and I came back later.
00:27:59
John S
And I have learned now on other parts where we do critical stuff like, Hey, you need to, you need to, um, you need to be conscious of the order of your operations as it relates to what matters.
00:28:12
John S
Um, you know, a big part of our secret sauce on some of our precision fits has to do with, um, some backside and counterbore machining. And you've got to be really conscious of basically the part is going to move.
00:28:23
John S
It doesn't matter that it moves, but you need to be conscious of the order operations that you do those parts in.
00:28:27
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:28:28
John S
um right And I'm sure for you, I mean, we have big, big parts that are relatively easy to hold on to. I can't imagine some of your parts.
00:28:35
johngrimsmo
Yeah, we have some flimsy little parts. And I find myself um getting into bad habits with programming. Like spot all the holes first, drill all the holes first, thread all the holes first, first and then work on machining and sometimes that's not always the answer sometimes it is sometimes you know you want to rough away all the material and then finish everything delicately or sometimes you want to leave meat here because you need it for later for rigidity especially on the willow might not find that making these pocket clips because i'm trying to self-support this whole material as i'm removing everything else so i'm like how do i leave meat there okay let's do that let's step down let's leave a chunk there we'll clean it up later we'll flip it over clean it up but it's fun to be able to strategize that right.
00:28:46
John S
Right.
00:29:05
John S
Yeah. yeah
00:29:18
John S
Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of anxious to get, to get back. I, I, um, I had 10 minutes before we hit record. So I actually roughed the part up to all of the critical stuff.
00:29:29
John S
So I was like, I'm leaving it in a place now where I can go. I'm going to reorder a few things. I'm going to do some more stock to leave, some more general operations. The nuclear step next would be to actually put an indicator in the machine and watch it there.
00:29:42
John S
I don't think I need to do that.
00:29:43
johngrimsmo
Okay. But can you even...
00:29:44
John S
Yeah,
00:29:45
johngrimsmo
You can leave it there, the the indicator. indicator coolant everything I don't know yeah um so are you thinking it's more of a fixturing problem or an order of operations problem
00:29:48
John S
why not? I mean, I'm not worried about coolant. You could also run a drive if you had to. I
00:30:02
johngrimsmo
maybe
00:30:02
John S
think there's more tool pressure than I'm appreciating as we're rough. I think actually the culprit might be an unrelated bolt counterbore that's kind of wailing on it.
00:30:13
John S
And I think the part is moving. We're talking about, by the way, we're talking about the measurements we're getting are between, actually this is another reason why I think Alex is right. The measurement distances I'm getting, I mean, I could show you my desk right now.
00:30:25
John S
It's littered with scrap parts and I've been labeling them with blue painter's tape and the time they were done and like what I changed to evaluate all that.
00:30:28
johngrimsmo
of operations problem maybe yeah
00:30:33
John S
It's not exactly the same, but it varies between nine tenths and fifteen tenths or a thou and a half out.
00:30:41
johngrimsmo
yeah okay but the variance is interesting too
00:30:42
John S
So it's not like we're talking a mile here, but which also speaks to like the part is just shifting ever so slight.
00:30:48
johngrimsmo
yep yeah
00:30:50
John S
And if you have a three eighth inch end mill, come in to hog out a bolt head counter bore and it just pushes that part. I mean, nine tenths is not something you're going to like see, but yeah.
00:31:01
johngrimsmo
is interesting too. Yep, yep. Yep, yep. Interesting.
00:31:04
John S
Yeah.
00:31:04
johngrimsmo
And are these like mating features? like Like two pin joints where two parts go together and they have to line up dead nuts kind of thing?
00:31:07
John S
Right. You know it when they don't.
00:31:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:11
John S
That's the beauty of it, which is what, that's
00:31:12
johngrimsmo
Because you're taking up the the the slop between the two holes. It's like the whole rounded diamond theory, right? Yeah.
00:31:19
John S
exactly what it is, which is what I wish you were here when I made the test part, expecting it to be also bad. And I slipped in the two press fit precision ground pins and it just, it drops on effortlessly and you cannot move it left or right up.
00:31:35
johngrimsmo
yeah it's just right yeah
00:31:36
John S
Like you cannot budget. And then you just, it lifts right back. It's just perfect. It's just perfect. And the same machine regularly makes this part, um, on an, or does an exact same operation on a separate thing all the time and those are still going fine.
00:31:51
John S
So it's like, wait a minute here. Like I was, I was just, I don't know. I should stop rambling, but I was very perplexed.
00:31:57
johngrimsmo
Well, so did that answer it?
00:31:58
John S
Well,
00:31:59
johngrimsmo
Is it a fixturing issue?
00:32:03
John S
yeah, because the other parts don't have, so this is a fixture. The other things are actual parts and the parts that have continued to be produced successfully don't have a lot of the other roughing strategies that happen on this fixture.
00:32:15
johngrimsmo
fixed ring issue okay but can you can you clamp it better or harder more repeatably or do you just have to machine it easier
00:32:17
John S
Could do both. I don't think it's... I think it's a tool pressure.
00:32:29
John S
I think it's a cam. I think I'm inadvertently being too aggressive on one or two roughing operations.
00:32:32
johngrimsmo
it easier. Got it.
00:32:35
johngrimsmo
Yeah, when you look at the machine, you're like, I got this big horizontal, I got a 30 horsepower spindle or whatever it is, and big three-eighths tool, let's go nuts, let's go ham on it.
00:32:36
John S
It doesn't care.
00:32:43
johngrimsmo
Except when, you know, I I tend to do a quarter inch tool is pretty big for us we've got some 3 8 tools that we use but most of the stuff is pretty delicate so I have to treat it delicately too well that's good i'm I think I'm happy for you if you're still stuck Yeah, I know you will.
00:33:00
John S
Yeah. Yeah. I will DM you if I like, I'm like, no, we will get it. Like, yeah, we will get it. Hey, what, I had made a note to ask you what happened with the EDM hunt or like idea.
00:33:08
johngrimsmo
Good.
00:33:16
John S
Oh yeah.
00:33:16
johngrimsmo
Kind of fizzled for now. I actually, I left test parts at Elliot Matsura right before IMTS.
00:33:20
John S
Interesting.
00:33:22
johngrimsmo
I know they were busy at IMTS. I didn't expect to have them back. That was two months ago. I haven't heard a peep. So they're they're sitting in a box somewhere. I'm honestly okay with that because I'm not in a position to buy it right now.
00:33:34
johngrimsmo
It was one of those things like, I'm going to go down the rabbit hole. This could solve all my problems. It never does. I learned a lot about it, even though I already knew quite a bit about EDMs, but I learned more. Got pricing, got quotes, got plans, everything.
00:33:46
johngrimsmo
um And then it kind of fizzled out and I'm okay not needing it right now.
00:33:52
John S
okay
00:33:52
johngrimsmo
It'd be a great tool to have.
00:33:53
John S
for
00:33:54
johngrimsmo
I don't need it right now. Like A, we're not spending any money. And two, that's it's as you know, when you get a new machine, it's like somebody's job to run that machine.
00:33:57
John S
yeah
00:34:05
johngrimsmo
And we don't have a lot of that time kicking around.
00:34:06
John S
Okay, it's fair. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's totally fair.
Testing New Equipment
00:34:09
johngrimsmo
Conversely, we did get a new machine last week.
00:34:13
John S
Okay.
00:34:14
johngrimsmo
um We got a Wazer water jet.
00:34:17
John S
Oh, awesome.
00:34:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah, super cool.
00:34:18
John S
Okay.
00:34:19
johngrimsmo
So, um you know, they wanted to send us one and and have it have us torture test it and learn it. And Eric's not a machinist, my brother. um But I'm like, Eric, this is your baby now.
00:34:30
johngrimsmo
like i don't I would love to touch it, but I don't want to touch it.
00:34:33
John S
yeah
00:34:34
johngrimsmo
You play with it. You figure it out. And so he spent the past week um squeezing time away from finishing knives in order to learn this machine, set it up, test it, make test parts, make bad parts. And he learned the hard way that any DXF you bring into there, it'll water jet every single line in that sketch, no matter what.
00:34:49
John S
Yeah.
00:34:51
johngrimsmo
There's no selecting lines.
00:34:51
John S
it funny
00:34:54
johngrimsmo
It just machines everything. So he machined a blade with holes and weird features and engravings and everything because that's what the cam file had or the sketch file had.
00:35:04
johngrimsmo
So he's like, huh, you got to make dedicated, like just outline files. Yes, you do.
00:35:09
John S
It's it's funny
00:35:10
johngrimsmo
But yep.
00:35:10
John S
is he doing like using fusion to edit dxf oh awesome
00:35:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or create sketches and just output DXFs. Yeah, it's been a great learning experience for him because he ran into a lot of problems, both mechanical and software related to kind of do what he's expecting it to do but now he's finally getting it dialed like he's almost a weekend and he's like oh i'm making parts now like where are those blade files located in fusion so that i can just start you know because the goal is to use it to cut damasteel we buy damasteel in strips.
00:35:29
John S
funny. Is he using Fusion to edit DXFs? Oh, awesome. yeah
00:35:40
John S
yeah
00:35:44
John S
Yeah.
00:35:44
johngrimsmo
strips Right now I'm gluing it down to the speedio table. Using an end mill, gently cut it out of the glue, make sure it doesn't fly off the glue. I made these custom clamps to hold it down.
00:35:54
johngrimsmo
It's a whole programming step. It's a whole machining step. Ties up a machine that's busy. And I just never get around to it, to blanking out these damasteel blades so this this all is starting to make sense and to give it machines in the front shop in the finishing shop where there's no other big equipment um and basically eric's now in charge of buying damasteel cutting damasteel handing it to the machine shop where we surface grind and mill it everything like that and that like initiates the process so We're going to be making more damage steal, which is
00:36:02
John S
Yeah.
00:36:26
John S
That's awesome.
00:36:28
John S
I saw this. I watched your, I don't know what you call it, the shop update video the other night that you posted. You were holding a damaseal strip there that had like the odd leftover blank end where it was like straight lines instead of the curviness.
00:36:41
johngrimsmo
okay
00:36:41
John S
That was damaseal, right?
00:36:42
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:36:43
John S
those Those bars, though are longer than the water the laser so do you can you uh what do you call it like oh you know on a laser you can open up the side flaps but okay you mean bandsaw the sheet metal on the sides of it to feed it through.
00:36:47
johngrimsmo
yes so
00:36:53
johngrimsmo
ah no you can't on this one no you'd have to bandsaw the piece first and put it in which is not hard to do.
00:37:02
John S
Do do it.
00:37:02
johngrimsmo
A water jet sprays everywhere.
00:37:03
John S
Yeah,
00:37:04
johngrimsmo
And this is, it's an enclosed machine, which is really cool. Like the door closes fully.
00:37:07
John S
yeah.
00:37:09
johngrimsmo
So yeah, as tempting as that might be, but.
00:37:10
John S
I'm not joking. if Cut a little slot precision.
00:37:12
johngrimsmo
A precision slot.
00:37:12
John S
slo Use the Wazer to cut the sheet metal. Cut those precision slots.
00:37:15
johngrimsmo
That's
00:37:15
John S
You could even gasket them and then you could feed the strips through.
00:37:19
johngrimsmo
actually an interest.
00:37:20
John S
Yeah,
00:37:22
johngrimsmo
I will stare at the machine and consider that. That could be kind of cool, actually can even cover the slots when you're not using them like
00:37:29
John S
exactly. A little flap that covers it. The flap should be from the inside, then it self-seals.
00:37:32
johngrimsmo
interesting i think the table height is adjustable but i think it's
00:37:35
John S
Right.
00:37:39
johngrimsmo
one and done. like You don't really mess with it over time. You just keep it level and flat. I'll run the idea by Eric and see what he thinks.
00:37:49
johngrimsmo
But yeah, he's having fun. He's saying the one thing he doesn't like is there there doesn't seem to be an option to like manually jog the machine and cut a line. you know it's like put a piece in there I just want to cut a piece in half.
00:37:59
John S
Huh. Interesting.
00:38:01
johngrimsmo
um You have to make a program. You can turn on the pump and prime it and just spray. So you can turn on the pump. So I just want to jog it while it's on.
00:38:09
John S
You can't jog it at all?
00:38:10
johngrimsmo
I don't think so.
00:38:11
John S
That's odd.
00:38:11
johngrimsmo
Not not when it's on, I think.
00:38:12
John S
Yeah, right.
00:38:13
johngrimsmo
I haven't touched it. um But I could see some arguments against that because how thick is your material?
00:38:16
John S
Right.
00:38:19
johngrimsmo
How fast are you jogging? how there's There's variables, right?
00:38:22
John S
Right.
00:38:23
johngrimsmo
Whereas the Wazer software controls that.
00:38:24
John S
Yeah,
00:38:27
johngrimsmo
And you but yeah and there's ah there's a piercing dwell, I think.
00:38:28
John S
that's true. You wouldn't have done that with a plasma because it's like you don't want to dwell. It's a fair point. Is there
00:38:36
johngrimsmo
um you know For a so thick material, you'd pierce for longer. And a thin material, you wouldn't pierce. so Not for making a cam.
00:38:42
John S
a conversational? Like this feels like very path pilot, like just a quick line. Like, yeah.
00:38:48
johngrimsmo
Right. but But that's what Eric realized yesterday.
00:38:50
John S
Right.
00:38:50
johngrimsmo
He's like, why don't I just infuse and draw a quick line in the middle of the table and that's my new cam file to cut stuff in half. Like, oh, that's not hard.
00:38:57
John S
Yeah. It feels like you.
00:38:58
johngrimsmo
But he's putting two and two together, which is really cool to see.
00:39:00
John S
Yeah. What are the, do you know the punchline of like what makes this Wazer better than, because this is the new generation, right?
00:39:06
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it is. So they made the desktop one for many years. They had the Kickstarter.
00:39:09
John S
Yeah.
00:39:10
johngrimsmo
I remember when it came out and I remember being like, oh, that'd be really cool to have our own water jet for cheap.
00:39:13
John S
Okay.
00:39:14
johngrimsmo
A lot of you know comments that it's not very powerful and used a lot of media and things like that because it was a very small machine. this This one has apparently four times more pressure i think it's 8 000 psi um a lot of upgrades a lot of better it's it's got fully self-standing enclosed machine it looks like a datron neo like it's freestanding by itself um i think a lot of the things are the same but they've improved the pumps they've improved've improved everything.
00:39:45
johngrimsmo
And with the extra pressure, I think it, I think Eric said yesterday, a blade's going to cost us about a dollar 70 in media, which is nothing like we're paying almost $10 at our water jet place now to have them, to have them done for us.
00:39:49
John S
Yeah. Oh wow.
00:40:00
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:01
johngrimsmo
So he's like, that's, that's not bad. Like two bucks done all day long.
00:40:06
John S
Yeah.
00:40:06
johngrimsmo
And that's mostly the media cost. So he uses two pounds of media or something, and two dollars.
00:40:09
John S
It is crazy what they go through.
00:40:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:40:15
John S
Well, that's
00:40:16
johngrimsmo
So yeah, I mean, we're we're playing with it. we' We're seeing. It looks beautiful. um I haven't seen it cut yet. I saw him turn it on and prime it, but um yeah, it's one of those things.
00:40:27
johngrimsmo
Anything I need water jet, I'm just going to send it to Eric and say, you do it, which is this is really cool.
00:40:36
johngrimsmo
And he's got a kitchen knife that he's been wanting to make or hand make for quite a long time. um So I gave him a bunch of scrap aluminum sheets, and he already cut one out the other day he cut out two actually uh this
00:40:47
John S
nice. It is fun. Aluminum?
In-house Solutions & Supply Challenges
00:40:48
John S
For what? Oh, not for the knife, though. Okay. Got it. Yeah.
00:40:48
johngrimsmo
yeah just to test like cut cut metal yeah but it's the shape is right and it's it's the same thing as like 3d printing he's already 3d printed them he's like now i've 3d now i've printed it in metal he's got his own bamboo too and he keeps calling the waterjet printing.
00:41:01
John S
Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, right. No, no.
00:41:07
johngrimsmo
now you're You're cutting now buddy.
00:41:09
John S
You got it.
00:41:09
johngrimsmo
You're see you're subtractive machining.
00:41:10
John S
It is subtractive. Yeah. It's funny. We had a, we wanted some better.
00:41:16
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:41:19
John S
We use those Carling tiny vice, like edge clamp fixtures that are, and they're, they're, they're fine.
00:41:25
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:41:28
John S
Um, and I needed more of them and I ordered them. And of course it's the classic, like on the website. Now you can push it to a distributor. The distributor quoted me, ordered it, paid for it with a credit card.
00:41:38
John S
And then the next day they're like, Oh, these are six weeks back ordered.
00:41:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Gosh.
00:41:40
John S
And I'm just like, cancel the order. And, uh, I kind of wanted to modify them anyways, but we've got a lot of irons in the fire here.
00:41:43
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:41:48
John S
So I didn't, my default was just to buy them rather than put that on the plate here. But I was like, Nope, you know what? That's the sign I needed. Um, so I had already, I'd already made the CAD model of what I wanted to do.
00:41:59
John S
And there, these are now out of brass and they have the backside is rounded. So you, cause we care about the orientation and then we have little arrows that point toward it. And then, and then we lap the front face on brass.
00:42:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:12
John S
So it's like, does not mar your part whatsoever. And, and grant banged on the Willowman. Like it's so easy. It's just like crack. It's great. And yeah, that was awesome.
00:42:23
John S
It was really awesome.
00:42:23
johngrimsmo
Oh, that's cool. Yeah, that's the whole make-buy argument, you know?
00:42:25
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:42:29
johngrimsmo
And when something is six weeks out, that tends to influence the decision.
00:42:33
John S
Yeah. For sure.
00:42:35
johngrimsmo
Pretty
00:42:37
John S
Sweet. What are you up to today? Nice.
00:42:40
johngrimsmo
much just finishing the day with Clara. We've got three guys off. They're going shooting today, and I'm mildly jealous.
00:42:45
John S
Ooh,
00:42:48
johngrimsmo
But that's okay. So it's a quieter shop.
00:42:51
John S
yeah
00:42:51
johngrimsmo
We've got one guy in the machine shop trying to run everything himself, which is going well. But, yeah, so just run the day off with Clara. Probably check tools on the kern, make sure they're good for the night.
00:43:04
johngrimsmo
And then that's probably it for today. But generally, next big things.
00:43:09
John S
I like that.
00:43:09
johngrimsmo
I've basically finalized the hard milling on the Fjell.
00:43:12
John S
okay
00:43:12
johngrimsmo
My new hard milling end mills, Zadaro just told me today, some of them have come in. Do you want a partial shipment? And I'm like, well, this is the one I really need.
00:43:19
John S
oh
00:43:21
johngrimsmo
I want this one. I want the two millimeter high fee that I ordered. Hopefully that's in and then I'll take that one. Otherwise, wait.
00:43:27
John S
Yeah.
00:43:28
johngrimsmo
But I'm able to hard mill these blades with the tools that I have and I'm getting insane results. Like these knives are going together exactly as I want.
00:43:37
John S
there you're You're going to love this. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:40
johngrimsmo
And all I need now is tool life. And I think the Moldino tools, I'm posting about it on Instagram, I'm getting tons of DMs going, oh yeah, Moldino tools all day long.
00:43:49
John S
Yeah. Okay.
00:43:50
johngrimsmo
Yeah, and same for N-Ass. It's Pepsi Coke, you know. Two different ways to do the same thing. So I'm looking forward
Hard Milling Techniques
00:43:59
johngrimsmo
to it.
00:43:59
John S
So I realized, we can talk about this next week some too, but we, she's kind of frustrated.
00:44:02
johngrimsmo
Oof.
00:44:04
John S
Still haven't received our NS tools. they so They were supposed to be here last week. They should be here this week. But um kind of a moot point because we're using that YG1 that's working fine. I think the NS will be better, but fine.
00:44:15
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:44:16
John S
But then I realized, crud, I need a like roughing one for some different hard mill features we need to do. um I need basically like a 3 16 style uh i would prefer it to be bullnose just so don't don't have a sharp corner to break off but some like 5 10 dow corner rad or chamfer 3 16 or 3 millimeter i think uh no it'd be bigger than that right four okay That's a dedicated, like, hard milling.
00:44:29
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:44:34
johngrimsmo
but diameter
00:44:37
johngrimsmo
yeah and that's that's what i got malldio makes an epoch high feed and mill with like two millimeter tool it has four flutes and it's high feed What diameter?
00:44:50
johngrimsmo
really fast zip zip tips um and that's what i'm using as my roughing tool but
00:44:58
John S
so Who's that?
00:44:58
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:44:58
John S
That's Maldino?
00:44:58
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:44:59
John S
Okay.
00:44:59
johngrimsmo
but data yeah
00:45:00
John S
Yeah, okay
00:45:00
johngrimsmo
um ah so What did you need? You need...
00:45:08
John S
okay.
00:45:08
johngrimsmo
The thing with NS, though, like if if you're two plus weeks out for every order, like how do you build a process around that?
00:45:08
John S
If I'm... Good.
00:45:15
johngrimsmo
you know how do you How do you rely on that?
00:45:17
John S
and Frankly, I said that to them, and they're like, these are in Japan. And I was like, oh let's find a different SKU because I don't want to build a process around the Japan tool. And, oh no, we'll like, we're already going to start stocking these here just because you said it.
00:45:28
John S
So I think it's more just like they're just whatever.
00:45:29
johngrimsmo
Sure.
00:45:31
John S
But like, so what I did is I, um we just, we buy a lot of Haas tooling now. It's been, it's a lot of it it is YG1, frankly, but ah it's been great.
00:45:41
John S
And so I went on just like, I don't think they have any hard mills. So sure enough, they I looked in hard mills and they had a hard mill, but it's technically, it's great for 45 to 50 and it's okay for 55 to 50 to 55, excuse me.
00:45:54
John S
And it doesn't list anything from 55 to 60.
00:45:56
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:45:57
John S
I'm doing 60. So, but the tools were $8.
00:46:00
johngrimsmo
ah geez
00:46:01
John S
So, and it's free overnight shipping. It's just like, look, this is how hostage disrupts the industry for better or worse.
00:46:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah.
00:46:07
John S
So I don't really care if they don't work.
00:46:07
johngrimsmo
Exactly.
00:46:09
John S
I'm going to try them. This is, again, just just roughing out some features and crazy.
00:46:16
johngrimsmo
And then you watch the videos online of mold makers using a ball end mill to rough out this entire mold cavity. but I'm like, what? That breaks every logic that my brain says.
00:46:27
johngrimsmo
But that's how they're doing it.
00:46:27
John S
Right?
00:46:28
johngrimsmo
I'm like, holy cow.
00:46:28
John S
Yeah.
00:46:30
johngrimsmo
You get the right tool and the right piece of piece and everything is just Yeah, I don't have mo loyalty yet, but the of the three end mills that I ordered, one or all of them, I don't know, weren't in stock in the US, so they had to come from Japan.
00:46:34
John S
Yeah. But ki you if you don't mind sharing what you learned, I mean, I would love to learn more, whether it's, I don't, I have no loyalty or NS, Union, like who's you're right.
00:46:52
John S
Yeah.
00:46:54
johngrimsmo
um And then on Instagram, some guy, this tool distributor, said they stock Moldino in Chicago, almost all SKUs, apparently not the ones that I ordered.
00:47:03
John S
Yeah.
00:47:04
johngrimsmo
um Yeah, exactly.
00:47:05
John S
Sounds like a line.
00:47:08
johngrimsmo
But I mean, these companies make hundreds of different SKUs of tools and you can you can't stock everything. But yeah, exactly.
00:47:14
John S
Don't tell me you do. Sorry.
00:47:16
johngrimsmo
Don't tell me you do. And the catalog is so tempting.
00:47:19
John S
Right.
00:47:19
johngrimsmo
And these catalogs are like, oh do you want a one millimeter stick out, two millimeter stick out, three millimeter stick out? You want everything. I can't expect them to stock all of it, but I don't know.
00:47:26
John S
Yeah. It's a lot.
00:47:29
johngrimsmo
It's in the catalog. so Cool.
00:47:31
John S
Yeah.
00:47:32
johngrimsmo
Well, it sounds like both of us are on the precipice of loving hard milling. We're like almost there, right? Yeah.
00:47:39
John S
Oh, no, it's awesome. We've doing rework or like measuring stuff and then checking it and like putting it back in and decking it down a 10th and you get a 10th different.
00:47:45
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:47:48
John S
I just got my magnet in, which I'm going to use to secure the parts down.
00:47:48
johngrimsmo
Oh, cool.
00:47:52
John S
Um, it's awesome.
00:47:55
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:47:58
johngrimsmo
Good, good. Anything else?
00:48:01
johngrimsmo
Awesome. so um ben
00:48:06
johngrimsmo
think that wraps up
00:48:07
John S
See you next week.
00:48:08
johngrimsmo
see you next week
00:48:09
John S
here
00:48:09
johngrimsmo
um take your but