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NSC Live: "People were making bets on how long I could make it."
81 Plays7 years ago
Our host Jill James sits down with the Safety Training Ninja, Regina McMichael from the Learning Factory, live from the floor of the NSC Expo.
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Transcript
Introduction & Guest Background
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome to the National Safety Council Congress and Expo. I'm Jill James with the Accidental Safety Pro. And we are recording live podcast sessions this week while we're here at the Expo. And my guest today is Regina McMichael with The Learning Factory. Welcome to the show. Thank you.
00:00:28
Speaker
So you know that the Accidental Safety Pro podcast is all about safety professionals like you and I telling our story about how did we accidentally fall into this profession because so many of us simply did.
00:00:43
Speaker
And it sounds like you have a pretty compelling story about how literally an accident. So do you mind sharing with our
Personal Tragedy & Career Shift
00:00:51
Speaker
audience? Not at all. How did you become a safety professional? I was 20 years old and I was young and recently married and had been in love with this young man since I was 10 years old.
00:01:02
Speaker
and waited till I got old enough to be interesting and finally we started our relationship, got married and he worked for a residential contractor and he did roofing and I got into safety the day he died. Wow. So he fell from a roof 25 feet 11 inches. Wow. And we're just regular people living regular lives and suddenly I was thrown into this world that I didn't understand. Yeah. I couldn't figure out why he died. Yeah. And so I
00:01:29
Speaker
My goal is to try to understand that. I learned OSHA regs. I participated in the investigation. I demanded data from the agency. I demanded data from workers comp commissions, autopsies, everything. How old were you? 20. 20. 20.
00:01:44
Speaker
That's a lot of kahunas for a 20-year-old in grief. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I didn't know yet who I was going to be as a human, as a person. And I didn't know that the things I was doing at that time and the strength I was showing, which I didn't know I was, I didn't know that that was a part of who I was as a support individual and still wonder. Yeah.
00:02:09
Speaker
We're all learning. We're all continuing to learn. And it's for me, it was like, I just had to find a reason for why he died. Because he wasn't a rock star. He didn't die in a plane crash. He was just a regular person. He had served in the military. He'd been a wild boy when he was young. He survived some interesting things. And it was like, why did he die there? How long had he been on the job?
00:02:35
Speaker
He had worked construction on and off through his teen years and then after the military. With that particular company, probably less than a year in construction in the 80s, 1986. When he fell and when he died, and when I was starting to investigate it and learn what was happening, the regulations, et cetera, it was interesting because
00:02:56
Speaker
That's when I started to find out that there wasn't any protection. There wasn't any anything. And it wasn't just a lack of recs. It was a lack of complete and utter regards. Yeah, sure. Sure. Nobody was doing it. I didn't have any blame for the people that he looked for. Because it wasn't like I could drive down the street and see anybody objecting to workers. Not a known entity.
00:03:17
Speaker
No. And so I was my mother. You need to go to college. You need to go to college. Take the workers comp money and go to college. And the workers comp experience was pretty ugly. It's not always pretty now, but in 1986 it was. What was it like? I mean, they have an assigned dollar amount.
00:03:36
Speaker
I mean, isn't that sad to say? And a signed dollar amount for the death of a family member. I wish it was that simple. They literally denied the claim and tried to blame him as if that's relevant in any state. But they gave it a shot. And I remember talking to my attorney, and he's like, oh, that's just where we start.
00:03:58
Speaker
And I'm like, why would anybody treat anyone like that? And stoop there. And so I actually settled for much less than what the law allowed. But it was a conscious decision because the angst, the hate, the wanting to stay in a place of grief. I went to grief counseling on like the five steps. And I'm like, all right, well, I'm going to work through those really quickly because this kind of sucks. I don't like it.
00:04:23
Speaker
stay here any longer. Right, right. And I actually thought I could will myself through it.
00:04:30
Speaker
At 20, maybe we think we can will ourselves through grief, but although that's probably something that many people continue to experience. Well, and I think there's something to be said for that. A choice to not stay in a place.
Passion for Safety Training
00:04:44
Speaker
And so I made those choices that I didn't want to stay in a really ugly, depressing place. And so with a small amount of money in my hand, I stumble off to community college.
00:04:56
Speaker
And there I was, walking down the hallway, and on the military board was this piece of paper talking about a safety and academic program. Oh, man. And I'm like, wait, what? What just happened here? And it was amazing. So this is a brochure, and it had the course listings in it. And so this is like 1987. And so it's got the little pieces of paper at the bottom that you're supposed to rip off the phone for. Yes, I remember.
00:05:23
Speaker
but I'm holding the brochure and I realize this is my destiny. Wow. And so I looked to my left and then I looked to my right and then I stole the whole thing. I would have totally done the same, totally done the same. So did you feel in that moment like I'm going to avenge this, what had happened and right
00:05:42
Speaker
right things. Yes, from the very beginning I felt a necessity to try to write the balance. And I didn't even know what that meant very early on. Sure. But through my college time and then very early on in my career, and it's interesting because I talk about this in the keynote that I speak to people about, I literally thought I was supposed to save one life, that that one life is supposed to trade for the life that it's learned.
00:06:10
Speaker
And that balance that somehow that would explain why he died because I had something I was supposed to do. Right. And so then it would make sense. It would be mission accomplished. Exactly. And then I would be able to breathe that he didn't die for any kind of reason. And the problem is, as you have probably experienced this most safety professionals that I talk to, it's almost impossible to
00:06:32
Speaker
leads the end of the day to leave your career and say, I saved a life. I'm positive about it. Yeah, right. Because we don't know. We don't know. Yeah. We don't know. Police officers get to know firefighters, doctors, but safety professionals, we just walk around hoping. Hoping today. Hoping today it mattered, right? Hoping today something just as fast. Yeah, right?
00:06:54
Speaker
And hopefully, we've saved thousands and thousands of lives in our work. I think so too. So righted it many times over. And I figured out for me, once I started training, how much I love to train, how much I love to connect with people, that I realized that me trying to save one person, me trying to directly impact you was way too small. But if I could train people and then they could then go out and impact fishing, that whole fishing analogy, teach them to fish and they'll do it. Yes.
00:07:22
Speaker
And I thought, OK, so I won't find out if I helped. And I'm OK with that. Once I matured through my career, I kind of have to give that up. But it's interesting that we're talking about this, because this is probably the first public recording of this conversation. I have so many people in the 30 years I've been in the industry who come up, and they're like, I didn't know any of this. Wow. And what an honor.
00:07:44
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah. What an to hold here. So the commu at the community college, you finish it. Yeah. What's okay. Congratulations. W first job. Like what did y So I went to work for the h the state of Virginia. Th was my first safety job.
00:08:07
Speaker
okay state of Virginia. All right and oh my gosh to work with people and to spend time with people and to train them was so awesome. My first training was probably 3 days into the job. Wow, I was handled totally green. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, useless. I was handed a carousel of slides. And so I and it's on backing safety and I'm like,
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, I'm like happy equipment and backing it up. I'm 23 years old, yeah. And they're like, well, why would you back over somebody? Who would do that? Yeah, it's a thing. So I learned as I taught, but combined space training and there was an incident where
00:08:51
Speaker
I was in the crime space with my people and we lost touch with a lot of you know I come out and my guy topside is just covered in sweat shaking and he goes I just canceled the 911 call and he goes because you taught me I can't
00:09:10
Speaker
go in. Yeah, oh man, he's like you listen, I couldn't. You guys were down. Yeah, couldn't go in. Yeah, like he did right here. That's exactly it. And it was like, and I'm like, oh my gosh, it worked the training work. And you're 20 some years old. Like I did that. Wow. And so how did you as a as a 20 some year old female, I've been in your position also at the Highway Department. What do you do to build street cred because
00:09:37
Speaker
It's a thing when you're young and female and you just got out of school and you don't know how to back up the actual truck. I don't know.
Professional Growth & Regulations
00:09:54
Speaker
I think I could look back and say, I think I did these things. But at the time, I think it was just about having my heart in the right place. I really did care about these people. We had an incident where one of our vehicles was hit by a tractor trailer on the major interchange right outside of Washington, D.C. And I remember I had dropped first day CPR all day long.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I had gone to the site because I had to pass it to get home anyway. And it was awesome having lights in your car because you got to pass all the traffic. And so I get to the vehicle and it is demolished. It is horrible. But my guy is one man, one woman. They weren't in the truck. And the reason they weren't in the truck was because one of the signs on the side of the road had fallen down.
00:10:41
Speaker
you know how they always made the jokes about the guys who work for the highway department. It takes two, three, four people, one shovel, four, what's orange and sleep six. Yeah. And they, instead of ignoring something that was a hazard to the public, they turned around and walked back and did the right thing.
00:11:01
Speaker
And that's when the tractor trailer hit their vehicle. And they would have been in the vehicle had they not done the right thing. And when I saw them, I just lost them. Yeah, right. Here they are. And I'm like, you're the most beautiful people. I did my job. I did my job. And you did your job. I know. It's like, you know, that's the whole test of safety professionals, right? That they're going to perform the way we want them to perform when nobody's looking. And so you did your job. And they did theirs. How wonderful is that? It is. Wow. So how long were you at?
00:11:30
Speaker
transportation and then what happened next what what launched the next phase I did that for about 14 months. But you know the
00:11:39
Speaker
I've always kind of let the universe give me some push. So there I was and this opportunity presented itself to join the Associated General Contractors of America, the largest construction trade association for general contracting in the US. So there I was heading off to a job with a suit and heels.
00:12:01
Speaker
And, you know, very, very different. Yes, very different than steel toes. You're making bets on how long I could make it. Yeah, you have to leave your boots. And I had an amazing boss, amazing mentor, Pete Cheney, and Pete.
00:12:18
Speaker
taught me another side of safety I hadn't seen. We got to develop product, we got to develop training, we made videos, and all of a sudden I'm like, this is, you know, this is a broad reach. Different part of my career. Yeah. And I got to work with some of the leading safety people in construction safety. I mean, some of the top people, and I didn't even know then what I was with.
00:12:40
Speaker
You know, it's not until years later that I look back and I'm like, wow, my mentor is, you know, past president of the ASSP, past board member of the BCSP, you know, fellow, you know. And so, I was so lucky to have this amazing opportunity and this exposure to know these really great minds and these people who were saying they were all minds.
00:13:05
Speaker
got recruited by all organizations, the National Association of Home Builders. Whoa, that was the universe again. Yeah. During the interview, I said to my potential boss, I said, I need to tell you something before you hire me.
00:13:23
Speaker
And what happened what happened after you said after you said that he was like whoa and let's not talk about it a lot and I said I don't talk about it at all to go, but it was some because it wasn't ready to tell my story yeah start to tell the story for 28 years, yeah, believe it and not because it was a secret and just I want people to judge who I was as a safety professional. Yeah, I work that I was doing not be received.
00:14:01
Speaker
And so what did you do in that job like what was what was the role that you're filling in in that one.
00:14:08
Speaker
It's almost like, is there more irony that goes with this? It's almost like you know my story. I don't. I've never heard it before. That's so crazy. So the reason they brought me in was because they needed someone. I was the first full-time safety person they had. And the NAHB was actually a larger, much, much larger trade association than the AGC. But they represented so many small businesses around the world. I mean, I'm building Americana, doesn't get any more than that. Right.
00:14:33
Speaker
And the reason they needed someone full-time was because there was a regulation under development that I had been involved with at AGC. But they needed someone to dedicate themselves to it full-time. And they recruited to bring in. And that regulation was fall protection. Fall protection. Wow. Was it the residential fall protection piece? It was the residential. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
00:14:54
Speaker
I only know this because I remember as an OSHA investigator at the time when that happened. And then having to learn what the regulation differences were and how insanely different they were and this little checklist that I had of if it's this scenario, then this, and if it's this scenario, then that. And so you helped develop that. That is fabulous. Wow. Yeah. And then we had an interpretation that came out. I helped bring that and developed a bunch of products. And yeah, it was amazing. Wow.
00:15:24
Speaker
What does that feel like? You know how the whole like little, you know, the devil and the angel on your shoulder kind of like thing or whatever. One of the things that was particularly hard for me was as the agency was putting together some pretty stout language. And fairly so. People were dying, I get that. You know, when you look at statistics from 1986, one of those numbers is my husband.
00:15:48
Speaker
I got all of that, but I also got that if I wasn't going to be able to convince Kevin, my husband, to tie off to the roof, then he wasn't going to tie off to the roof, and it wouldn't have saved his life. So we had a regulation with the best of intention, but it wasn't going to save anyone's life, which is why NAHP at the time
00:16:09
Speaker
put a lot of political pressure to develop a special interpretation. And it gave the industry some time to catch up. Did they do it and some options? Yes. Was it enough at the time, whatever? No, I mean they still waited around way too long.
00:16:25
Speaker
Going out and signing a whole bunch of people and not making anyone better isn't helping either. We needed something that did all those things. Step them in. Just to add to the craziness of the story. There we are at the time, Assistant Secretary Joe Deere's office for the signing ceremony of the regulation. I'd love to say how important you feel going to a signing ceremony, but really we all wanted to be there just so we could get an advance
00:16:50
Speaker
copy of the reg and find out what the invitation is. What the heck is in here? How long do I have? I remember Joe Deere's signature on so many of the OSHA documents that I was using his guidance documents at the time. He was an awesome leader and I think he did a lot to the agency.
00:17:08
Speaker
And so there we were in the signing ceremony and they start passing out advanced copies of the reg and it's like two days before it will get published in the Federal Register. I flip it open and I scan to the implementation date and it is nine years to
Consulting & Audience Engagement
00:17:24
Speaker
the day.
00:17:30
Speaker
I'm looking at my boss at the time and I'm like, do you see this? I don't get it. How many years later was that? Nine years to the day.
00:17:41
Speaker
Oh man, yeah, who is the first person who told that to did you call his mom or like what do you what do you do it was my boss, okay, right next to me and I'm like holding the data when he's like why are you and so we've got 90 days we can work with that and I know it's the day wow, I'm like I don't all the days in the air, yeah, 65 to 0.
00:18:05
Speaker
yes, yes, I love I love irony, I love irony and the universe coming together to because I'm still picturing you like taking the poster off the lawn, the community. And then 9 years later, yeah so and so our wedding anniversary is April 20.
00:18:25
Speaker
work for Memorial Day. Oh, wow. Yeah, you're in the right field. Yeah. Yeah, you're in the right field. That's pretty amazing. After my son was born where I thought maybe I needed to leave the industry that I wasn't on my on my right track. And it's interesting because that's when I learned so many professional struggle.
00:18:43
Speaker
to stay in the industry, to feel relevant, to feel like we're helping. We're always reinventing ourselves. And I think it's the people that are truly successful are the ones that struggle with those things. So they can reinvent themselves. I think you're exactly right. It's the struggle. And when you start feeling it, and then you know, okay, is it time for me to move on to a new chapter? Or do I need to reinvent kind of where I'm at, and take a new trajectory to your path?
00:19:09
Speaker
Absolutely. So AGC, this is all happening. Did you stick around there for a while? And like, what's next? So I did home builders for almost five years, I think. Okay. And then I left to start a consulting business. And in part through some government grant work. So I was training home builders all across the country and trying to get them to use fall protection. Trying to get them to actually own an extension cord with a ground plug.
00:19:35
Speaker
or at least plug it into. Here's a portable one use this. I mean the best part about it was you know that was that was 5 years of hospital audiences. Yeah, I mean my skills, a trainer as an influencer to people who didn't understand because they're like how can you do this all that's like can you do anything to do one thing today one thing tomorrow, I'm like don't look at it in total because it's too overwhelming. Yeah.
00:20:03
Speaker
I'm like, try to figure out what's right. Talk about hostile audiences. I know what you mean when you say that, but for anyone who's doing training or is in front of audiences right now, whether it's on big stages like you do now or around the world like you do now, or someone who's just in front of a room full of people in their company,
00:20:21
Speaker
there's something to be said for your audience and the life that it brings or the life that it doesn't bring. And so when you say hostile audience, maybe describe that. How do you work through that as a trainer? And then flip it around to when you have one that gives you life. Because those are fun. I taught, actually, when I teach, I teach about class culture. And that as the trainer, as a facilitator, that we have a responsibility to build that culture, even if you walk into a hostile room.
00:20:51
Speaker
30 people don't want to be there. It's another OSHA training class. Perhaps it's even punishment for an accident, or something that's happened, or somebody had a near miss, and so they're all getting retrained on ladders, even though that may or may not be the issue. And that may not be the solution. And so that hostile audience are the guys that are forced to be there. And I'm from the East Coast, so I can say guys for everything. I should probably practice that.
00:21:19
Speaker
guys means people for the purposes of this pocket. We're definitely but I you know, I feel like it's our job as professionals in particular is trainers and we have to turn around we have to get the passion side that we've got to get them to appreciate the person standing next to them. Yeah, we've got to get them to remember that it can happen.
00:21:44
Speaker
And that's what was interesting about the bulk of my career is I never said, and let me tell you why this matters because it does happen to regular guys just like you happen to my husband. I never pulled that card. I always felt like it was my job to get them there. I felt that, yeah. I had the signature at the bottom of the farm that said, I can learn nothing from a woman.
00:22:11
Speaker
I've experienced those audiences and I'm like, that's what you can learn. You can learn that I'm going to rip this up and no client will ever see it. That's what you're going to learn today. Like, do you actually think I'm going to turn that into somebody? So it kind of cracked me up, but you know, it's, you're not going to get everybody. You're not going to get a hundred percent leavers.
00:22:28
Speaker
but I can get or guys in the front of the room with the arms crossed in front of them to relax, yeah, and the hot certainly mean I'm good, yeah, I'm good right. And so and that was a lot of it was I was like I just try to get them to do little pieces and
00:22:46
Speaker
For hardcore compliance people, they would have difficulty with my approach because I wasn't about, you have to be perfect. Because I felt like, can we try perfect tomorrow? Today, could we just not kill you? It's the don't be a safety cop kind of thing. And I think that many of us in this profession have
00:23:07
Speaker
bin safety cup when you didn't know what else to do or until you honed your skill enough to figure out there's a business grade and how to ride that and then how to move the needle toward the direction you want it knowing that you're not going to get 100% right from the first time.
00:23:26
Speaker
But it takes confidence. You need a great mentor to help you be able to say, I didn't get 100 and say nobody gets 100. Let's start in the right direction. And some days training in front of audiences just isn't going to go well. It's not going to be out of the park every single time.
00:23:45
Speaker
it's really a bummer because you go into it hoping it will but sometimes audiences are flat sometimes you're flat so anybody who's doing training should certainly know that don't don't think it's a failure because this happens and it's cyclical and it happens i'm sure it still happens to you happens to me and we never know well which which audience is going to be and which day it's going to be when you get the good one
00:24:08
Speaker
It's awesome. You live on it for a long time. At least us extroverts do. You have to be on it and you have to accept that this is all you got. I was unnamed country, unnamed city, don't want to offend anybody, but I was in a Nordic country and it was crashing and burning and this was in a 20-country tour and I had worked in countries where it wasn't supposed to be effective and it was awesome. And then here I was in this crashing burn situation and
00:24:34
Speaker
This gentleman comes to me during break and he just looks at me and he says, some people don't have ears.
00:24:43
Speaker
And I was like, this is a translation thing? Yeah, what does that mean? And basically it was some people don't want to hear. They don't have ears to hear what you say. And that was such a relief because I went back in the room and I focused on the people who had ears. And I taught them the best I could and I tried to impact their lives the best way I could.
00:25:05
Speaker
And I stopped worrying about the people who didn't have ears. Because you know how they can control you? And you're trying so hard to get them. And then, yeah. So it's like, no, I'm going to focus on the people who have ears. So this has been really helpful for me. Just to, you know, if it's crashing and burning, if you get three people that care, let those three people. Focus on them. Yeah, right. Because they're there. Right, right. They matter too. And there's something about knowing your audience as well and taking just a little bit of time before you get going and trying to figure out, like,
00:25:34
Speaker
Why are those people with their arms crossed? What is going on here? I remember, specifically, I was doing some training. I don't remember what I was training on. It might have been the OSHA 10-hour or something. And the room was full of scientists. But I didn't know that there was a room full of scientists until maybe an hour or two into the thing.
00:25:55
Speaker
And they were just like, hoo-hoo, not engaged at all. And I'm like, oh, there's scientists. And I'm using a different level of vernacular. So when I started talking about heat stress and I started talking about, use a sling psychrometer, all their eyes lit up like.
00:26:10
Speaker
Oh, she's talking about something technical. And then they're like, what is that? How does it work? How does it measure relative humidity? And they wanted to know all of it. And it was a win for the rest of the time. But I didn't, you know, I didn't do my homework to find out who is my audience and who should I bring? You know, which level of vernacular do I need to bring for that audience? That is so critical that I do a lot of train the trainer.
00:26:31
Speaker
And that's such a critical thing that people just think that they can just go up there and be awesome or just go up there and be technically capable. And it's so much more than that. And one of the things I've really tried to teach trainers is that the moment you're ready to acknowledge that the one hour or the eight hours that you have those people, that it is all about them and not about you, not even a little bit, as soon as it's all about them, the class will go so much better.
00:27:00
Speaker
Yeah. And what a great tip. What a great tip. And it's so simple and it's so free. And so I just, I'm like, get over yourself. Don't try to over impress about your scientists with too much info because that way, if you'd known too much, then the alternative. Then it would have been too many questions. I would have been out of my wheelhouse really quickly and they would have known the emperor had no clothes.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's taking the time to learn, being ready to be authentic. I think that's really critical for people who are afraid to be themselves. And so that's something I try to teach people is to be authentic. And then when they ask you something you don't know, don't try to figure it out at the moment. Take it during lunch, get back to them later, whatever it is. We know that role. We do.
Quality & Communication in Safety Training
00:27:43
Speaker
You don't have to. Don't feel like you have to know the answer immediately. I think that's something else that you grow into.
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah, in any profession, particularly in ours that you don't have to feel that, oh my gosh, somebody asked me a question. I've got to know it right now. You know, don't make anything up. I don't know. I'll get back to you on that. And you work your network then, or your resources. I'm sure in your career, you got to show me where that is.
00:28:04
Speaker
Yes, always, always, always like digging through the regulation book, trying to find and you can never do it under under pressure. Yes, you're going to hang up. Give me five minutes and then I'll find it and I'll find it. So you've had your own consulting company, The Learning Factory for how long now? Well, that's actually the second consulting company. Oh, wow. OK, a place in between as crazy and as
00:28:28
Speaker
unsatisfying as my workers compensation interaction career or interaction in the early part of my safety existence was I ended up joining an insurance carrier for seven years. It was really great and that's where I honed my training skills. They actually invested in me learning more. I figured out a lot of things that I did as a trainer had a name.
00:28:50
Speaker
It was part of instructional systems design. It was an actual thing. I wasn't just getting good at what I was doing because I was lucky. I actually was kind of figuring out things. And so when I started getting formalized education and training design and development, I was like, well, they have a name for that. I've been doing that for years. I just thought that was funny.
00:29:11
Speaker
It's fun. And it's a thing. It's a thing. So that helped me a lot. And then that's when it occurred to me that the industry in general went an extraordinary disadvantage. We are forced to think of training as almost an extra part of our job. You have your full-time job, and then, oh, you're technically competent. Therefore, you should be able to train. Go be awesome and make everybody really, really smart. And you have no extra time to do it. You have no skills as a trainer. Yeah.
00:29:41
Speaker
I tell some of the people I work with that if I want to be overly dramatic, and I do, that bad training really could kill. It really could. We slam a bunch of unnecessary information into people's heads. We get so caught up on structure.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah, on the regulatory structure. And it sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher in their ear. Yeah. And then they go out and they do something unsafe and we call them ugly names and we want to blame them. Blame the victim, right. When really did we do the best we could do as the profession to get that knowledge into their hat. Yeah. So it's become kind of my personal
00:30:20
Speaker
you know, a goal, my effort to get the industry moving forward on great training. And so that's why I'm a big believer in the BCSP's Certified Environmental Safety and Health Trainer certification, because I think that's one more step in legitimizing who we are as a profession.
00:30:39
Speaker
How do we explain to our bosses that we need extra time, we need extra money, we need extra people if we're not ready to legitimize the work as real work? So take just a second to explain that program. So if people are listening, they're like, oh, there's an actual place you can go for help in our profession for training. Explain what that is for a second. A certified safety professional is the BCSP, which I'm an ambassador for.
00:31:03
Speaker
Disclaimed now. Nicely done. Disclaimed now. So they took on a certification several years ago, and that's the Certified Environmental Safety and Health Training Certification. And what's interesting about it, though, is that a lot of people have some misunderstanding. So taking the test doesn't make you a better trainer. It's preparing for the test that makes you a better trainer. And that's where you're going to learn training theory. That's where you're going to learn instructional design.
00:31:33
Speaker
you're going to learn all of that stuff. So people come up to me and they go, I've been training for 20 years. Can I pass the test? And so I'll say, I'm going to say 10 different terms to you. Do you know what they are? And if they resonate, go for it. And then I'll start throwing some things out. And they're like, I have no idea what those things are. And I said, let me help you with the right resources so you can move in that direction. It's actually a thing. Yeah, it's a thing. Knowledge transfer and how you do it with adults is a thing. It's a thing.
00:31:58
Speaker
And there's a science to it. When I learned adult learning principles, I was like, oh my gosh, that was huge for me to uncover Malcolm Knowles and all of that stuff and, you know, geeking out here for a minute. But you get that. Good geeking. Thank you. But, you know, yeah, so to suddenly go, I was just doing that because it worked one time and then it worked five times. And then I find out, no, that's real theory. That's exactly how we're supposed to behave as facilitators and trainers.
00:32:25
Speaker
That's been a big push for me is trying to get the industry, even if I can't get everybody certified, if I can get people to at least acknowledge that training is real work, that it's hard, that it takes education or at least professional development to get you to that place. What a great tip for people listening. I think that's wonderful.
00:32:45
Speaker
So you stayed with Zurich for a while, and then you started the learning factor? Yes, I finally did that. It's really funny because everyone was like, you don't have safety in your name. And that was because my focus needed to be on the learning side. And if you want to limit, it's not just safety training, although it's primarily safety training. But it's so much about the train the trainer. And then a lot of my clients, after I work with them, they're like, can you do what you just did and not say safety and say something else? And I'm like, yeah, sure. Yeah, you can.
00:33:14
Speaker
Your leadership training is awesome. We just want you to say quality instead of safety. Okay. Okay. So right now I've got a client and it's a chemical manufacturer. And so I'm coming in and doing an eight hour program on communication skills for their research and development department, which is almost exclusively PhD chemical engineers. Talk about bringing a different game. Yeah. They're like, can you do that? And I'm like, yeah, sure.
Current Projects & Future Plans
00:33:41
Speaker
Yes, it's going to be a fun challenge. It's going to be so much fun. So I'm actually super excited about it. But it's bringing that idea that you take the time to connect with people and learn about them. And then they walk out the door and they go, I'm better today than I was yesterday.
00:33:58
Speaker
I just blogged about this sort of theory last week. I see you, I am here. It's like having that intentional exchange with someone and really seeing people who they are instead of somebody that did something right or somebody that did something wrong, but we're seeing one another and having an authentic exchange so we can have a real conversation about how do we learn? Why do I care about you? Why do you care about learning this rather than barking out rules and having an authentic exchange with one another?
00:34:28
Speaker
So you're here at the Expo and you are training this week. Four times. Four times. You are going to be so exhausted by Friday or Sunday or whenever you get to a kickback. So tell the audience, what are you training on? And if someone's here at the Expo and they want to get into one of your classes, what are you talking about?
00:34:51
Speaker
I'll actually be training on the expo floor tomorrow. Okay. I'll be doing a one hour safety training ninja program. Okay. Signature program. Okay. How we can train better as professionals. Okay. Then I'll be doing an eight hour program on safety training ninja on Thursday. Okay. So post conference. Okay.
00:35:06
Speaker
then I'll be doing getting a seat at the C-suite on Wednesday. Interesting. And so that's geared towards safety professionals and that was geared towards, I think, the self-limiting behaviors of our profession. Not our fault. No one taught us otherwise. Yeah. But we've self-limited with the silo of the moral imperative of safety. That's valuable. It's important. I'm all about it personally, obviously.
00:35:33
Speaker
The moral imperative does not necessarily drive business. And so... How do you do both? Yes! And I think that's a cultural shift that we see in the industry. Huge. And for me, I think that one of the things I can do is share just my experiences of working with so many small businesses throughout my career.
00:35:52
Speaker
and be able to teach them that if we can tie the safety initiative to profit, to better behavior, to quality, to whatever that company needs on a day, yes, it's in a much better place. But the siloing of like, we're doing this, and this is safety, and we should do it this way. And I'm like, I get with a company, I'm like, oh, you're 5S-ing. And they're like, yeah, I'm like, well, it's a success. And they're like, what do you mean? I said, this is another column on for safety. Safety, yeah. And they're like, well, don't we need another thing? And I'm like, did you have enough things?
00:36:21
Speaker
I'm like, no, I'm going to piggyback on something that's working. I'm a good consultant. I'm really OK. We don't need to invent a new acronym. Exactly. And so getting to the seat of the C-suite is talking about how safety professionals, if we're not reading annual reports of the companies we work for,
00:36:38
Speaker
It's on us. If we don't know how to communicate with the executive level because we don't understand them, we haven't taken the time to learn them, we don't understand the culture at the executive level, that's on us. How to pitch an idea in a way that speaks to their decision making. I need two million dollars to regard the machines.
00:36:56
Speaker
What's that going to do for me? Exactly. Where's my ROI? Exactly. And then when they look at you and they go, what's ROI? And you're like, OK, let's talk some more. Yeah, right. But yeah, so I think for me, connecting that side of it, it goes back to my personal history, despite the fact that there wasn't necessarily a direct relationship between those things.
00:37:15
Speaker
But as I progressed through my career and I saw the necessity of, you know, business has to see it. It can't just be a moral imperative. Because if moral imperative did the trick, people wouldn't speed. That's right. You know, they wouldn't, they wouldn't do some of the things that we do. Human beings would make mistakes. They wouldn't be texting and driving.
00:37:32
Speaker
That was a scary one. So that's you at the Expo this week. Yes. That's wonderful. You mentioned the Safety Training Ninja. Did I get that right? Yes. Your writing have written a book. Yes. Tell the audience about the book. Should be at before the end of the year, published by the American Society of Safety Professionals. Wow. And its title is Safety Training Ninja.
00:37:54
Speaker
Excellent. I know, not too tough to remember. And so how will people find it? They'll be able to go onto ASSP's website, or if you follow me on social media, I will be talking about it constantly. But the idea is that there are very few or almost no, and certainly not current, safety training books for safety professionals out there. And if you're hearing this podcast, or if you have ever seen me teach,
00:38:19
Speaker
you'll hear me in the book. Because it's just me talking. And I just happen to be typing instead of having it filmed or something. Do you have an audio version of this book coming? Because that'll be fun too. I know, I should do that. That's next. Yeah, I'm like, oh, learning about podcasts. This is good. I should probably just do a few, because just the stories alone. So lots of stories infused utilizing the classic adi instructional design system, which is a process. Safety people get processes.
00:38:47
Speaker
you know, teach them instructions by process, go through it, and then show how it makes sense in the safety world with safety examples. And so that's what it's, the book is specifically designed for that, and then I'm hopeful that, you know, it'll help people. Everybody's waiting, you know, everyone keeps asking, when does it get the place? When does it come up? Yeah. So people can find you on LinkedIn, Regina McMichael and The Learning Factory, and then the Safety Training Ninja. Yep. Those are all keywords people can search for to find you. That's awesome. And then ReginaMcMichael.com. Okay.
00:39:16
Speaker
So that's my speaker website where I actually do a lot of keynoting and work with large organizations, small organizations, trade associations, and talk about my journey in the profession and hopefully help their people.
Conclusion & Farewell
00:39:29
Speaker
So that's out there as well. So what's next for you after this?
00:39:35
Speaker
Besides breathing for a moment, where are you off to next? What's your next speaking gig? My next speaking gig is at the Group of Chemical Engineers. I've had a busy three weeks. I was just in Alaska at their interstate program for ASSP. I went to Hawaii right before that.
00:39:52
Speaker
whoa nice gig you went from hot to cold you kind of saw it okay excellent and now you're still so yeah a little crazy although it's very chilly here today so it does feel kind of kind of rough around the edges but so yeah so the next gig is is richmond virginia
00:40:09
Speaker
And I'll actually get to see family because that's where I was living, way back when. And then things tend to get a little quiet around December, which is good. I'll be able to work out some actual work. Yes, that's good. And your book's going to be coming out? Yeah. That's excellent. And things blow up in June? Yeah.
00:40:25
Speaker
Thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast today. That is so fun and I'm sure people are listening, they're searching things that you've said and they're looking forward to the book, as am I. Thank you to everyone for listening today and thanks for the work that you do to send your workers home, including your temporary workers, safely at the end of every day.
00:40:46
Speaker
If you'd like to listen to more of our podcast episodes, you can search for us, The Accidental Safety Pro, at the podcast player of your choosing. And if you'd like to send us a question, you can do that by emailing social at vividlearningsystems.com. Until next time, thank you for joining me.