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Episode 108: Gun Girls featuring Ross Lennon
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Ross Lennon, film historian and host of The History on Film podcast, has got something enticing for us to fence: Gun Girls (1957). Do you want to see powerful young women commit crimes, push people around and flaunt their figures? Well, will you settle for feisty 30-year-olds poorly executing crimes and changing their blouses? Don’t worry, there’s a moral at the end so we all at least feel okay about all the “violence” and “nudity” they just showed us. Directed by Paul Dertano and hailing from the teen delinquent genre, it’s a blast from the past and a pretty good time for the curious. We’ll also get into just what the genre is and its place in the greater cinematic canon. It’s a trip down culture’s memory lane and you can join us, just tune in!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Appearance
00:00:40
Speaker
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to your favorite bad movie podcast. It's the only podcast that's brave enough to ask the question, if this movie's so bad, why do you like it so much?
00:00:53
Speaker
We're your hosts. My name is Chris Anderson, and obviously I'm going to be the teddy of the show. I think that's yeah indisputable. andm I'm the toughest.
00:01:04
Speaker
Yeah. I'm the bad boy. You lead people down the wrong path. Always wearing off-the-shoulder shirts. Well, I've got great shoulders.
00:01:16
Speaker
Well, that's true. With me as always, I have the Dora of the show, Mr. Greg Bossy. Yeah, no, I'll take that. I will happily take Dora. Yeah, you're the sweetie pie. Yeah.
00:01:29
Speaker
Feeling good about it. Feeling good to be here. Good to have you. It's good to see you. And we, of course, have my wonderful wife, Anna Anderson. Brings me so much joy. You have to be the joy of the show.
00:01:44
Speaker
That's me Hello. Hello. How are you doing, my dove? Sleepy day, oh I understand. I'm so sleepy. We've got a bit of a sleepy crew here this week. It's fine.
00:01:56
Speaker
It's all right. I'm going to keep things shugging. I'm going to bring it. Don't you worry, listeners. And of course, part of what I brought is a very special guest. ah You might know him as the host of the History on Film podcast.
00:02:10
Speaker
But today, he's obviously the guy that's pulling the strings who got us all together for this caper. So he's got to be the Joe of the show. It's Mr. Ross Lennon. How are you, Joe?
00:02:22
Speaker
I'm doing good. at Could I be somebody else? You could probably be the Luke. Luke's not a bad dude. Yeah. It's funny. That's the guy that I had to look up. What's funny is, you know, i I've watched this movie a few times. I've watched all these movies a few times. I realized I don't know who any of the characters are by name. yeah No. if I imagine you you're a historian, so you probably know them mostly by their...
00:02:52
Speaker
by the cast members its names. Uh, but listeners I'm getting ahead of ourselves. Uh, this week we're talking about gun girls.
00:03:03
Speaker
If you haven't seen gun girls and you haven't, no, that's understandable. And the last three minutes have been largely impenetrable to you. Uh, but don't worry. We're moving forward. And, ah here's just a brief summary of gun girls to hold in your mind.
Discussing 'Gun Girls'
00:03:28
Speaker
Three young ladies go on a crime spree that culminates in a botched warehouse payroll robbery. Then things get worse.
00:03:40
Speaker
You didn't mention a probation officer, but otherwise, no spot on. Every description for this just kept talking about how they went against their probation officer's wishes, and I was like, why do they keep bringing that up?
00:03:51
Speaker
And then I watched it and was like, oh, okay, now I understand. What? Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Ross, you are an expert in juvenile delinquent films.
00:04:03
Speaker
okay Out of the entire canon, this was the one that you chose for us today. Why Gun Girls? So I described this film in particular once on my show. i said, if Ned Flanders had written the movie Traffic, then that would be Yeah, okay.
00:04:21
Speaker
That is so correct. That is so really great. and And for those who are totally coming into this cold, ah these are not only films that several have been featured on Mystery Science Theater, but everyone that hasn't would have been a prime candidate for Mystery Science Theater.
00:04:42
Speaker
ah These are... These are not your Super Mario Brothers movies. These are not your cocktail or good girl. This is real. all This is real deep lore for the bad movie enjoyers of the world. Yes, this is a particular taste of, the course, juvenile delinquent films. And we're talking about this canon of films.
00:05:04
Speaker
And I think it is sort of foundational. I think Mystery Science Theater did introduce a lot of bad movie watchers to this time and this genre because they were able to get things where the rights were sort of nebulous or at the very least it's incredibly cheap. ah And they obviously were their own specific type of bad movie. What drew you to juvenile delinquency films? Where did your interest spark in this? you know It's funny, um and I actually haven't told this story before on my show, but so I'm a graduate student of history and I'm working on this project as part of my master's thesis and eventual PhD work.
00:05:48
Speaker
But I started graduate school 12-ish years ago at this point. ah Gosh, no, 16 years ago at this point. and my Time flies, huh? Yeah, exactly. sort Oh, God. But ah my interest was always Latin American history, particularly American intervention during the Cold War. I've always been interested in the Cold War, modern American history.
00:06:10
Speaker
ah And I was always interested in American interventionism in Latin America. And so that's what I had started working on 16 years ago. I took an extended sabbatical from school, came back right after my credits expired. So I had to start from scratch again.
00:06:27
Speaker
basically I was gearing up to do the same project over again and thinking to myself, this is going to be so depressing. I don't know if I can stand the years of reading about, and then Coca-Cola sent in death squads or, you know, these people trying to start a union to get clean water and they were all brutally murdered. And so yeah I was like, maybe there was a reason why you needed that sabbatical. But then during COVID, I mean, I just like everybody on here and presumably
Juvenile Delinquent Films
00:06:59
Speaker
listening to this, I watched a ton of mystery science theater and that only intensified during COVID.
00:07:04
Speaker
And as I was watching, I think it was the violent years. Yeah. It was the violent years and daddy-o and all these other ones. i was like, man, there were a lot of these like fifties teen movies.
00:07:17
Speaker
Cause you always think of like, you know, Gamera and sort of the classics, but it's like, they did a lot of teen movies. was thinking, gosh, I wonder how many more of these there are. And so I started thinking like, you know, there's some interesting cross pollination between these films. Like you can kind of, especially with the violent years, which shares most of the same cast as this movie.
00:07:40
Speaker
h There are some cold war illusions. um The girls who are criminals in that movie turns out that their fence is maybe a Soviet, you know, saboteur,
00:07:52
Speaker
Okay. So there's a lot of... That would make sense. and So there's a lot of like Cold War text in that film, if you are looking for it. And I'm just the kind of person that would look for it. And so it got me thinking.
00:08:07
Speaker
And i was like, well, let me have this as like a backup plan. I'm still going to do the Latin America project because that's the serious, you know, high minded kind of stuff. and then And then the more I kept ruminating on this, i was like, well, I could do it this way. And I started finding more films and finding more books.
00:08:23
Speaker
And i was like, okay, I think I could really like give this a go if I wanted to, but of course I don't. And then finally I sat down to write something about it. i was like, no, I got, I got to do this project. It's much more fun. It's much more light and breezy.
00:08:39
Speaker
I've got a good friend who is like a expert on Henry VIII. And so he reads these, you know, political treatises from, I don't know when Henry VIII was alive, but from back then. So it's like, he reads all that kind of stuff. No. Yes. I don't know. But I was like, you know, do I want to be reading, you know, Latin American stuff or do I want to be watching these movies and using these as historical documents? And that's what sold me. And I've been working on it ever since.
00:09:09
Speaker
There's a ton of great writing about it. There's a ton of great films. But I'm going to share one book with you guys because it's my favorite. It's got the best title of a book ever. It's called the I Was a Teenage Juvenile Delinquent Rock and Roll Horror Beach Party Movie Book, A Complete Guide to the Teen Exploitation Film, 1954 1969. Okay.
00:09:30
Speaker
okay
00:09:34
Speaker
No, that's – I love a mouthful title. There's a reason why they're hot. Yeah. But what's so great about this is it was one of the first books I found that had like a list of all of the films.
00:09:46
Speaker
And so as I was reading this book, this guy, Alan Bedrock, gives some analysis of some films. He gives a little synopses. um But he provides a filmography.
00:09:57
Speaker
And so i was like, let me see if I can collect as many of the films in the filmography as he has. And then i can put them online. This book was written in the 80s. That was not an option. of like, well, let let me finish it, like continue his work in the digital era.
00:10:14
Speaker
And i started to find films that he didn't include. And so now i'm like, well, I'm going to build the most complete you know list ever. Like, you know, I can build this tower to heaven. has that ever gone wrong? um but ah So that's what I've been working on. And it's sort of morphed into like, how can I do this book about these films and make it digital firsts?
00:10:38
Speaker
And that starts by making these films available to everybody. Anybody who's listening to this can go watch the films on YouTube. Not all of them because of rights reasons, but a lot of them. And so everything I do is making it to where you can watch these films and read along with me.
00:10:55
Speaker
And you've got a channel that is your own archive. yeah What's that channel's name? It's the JD Juvenile Delinquency Media Archive. All right. JD Media Archive. And it's got most ah it's got a good cross-section.
00:11:10
Speaker
um Some of the films, for copyright reasons, you know, i can't post on YouTube. You can find them elsewhere if you want. Um, but, uh, there's a great cross section of stuff that is just as obscure as this, that, uh, you know, I'm able to preserve and then incorporate my own sort of analysis going forward.
00:11:31
Speaker
Well, that's fantastic stuff. Salute. You know, we love preservation. You know, we hate to see these little curios fall by the wayside. Now, ah Greg, yeah Anna, I'm going to neither of you had seen Gun Girls before. no No. No. No, sir. Never even heard of this one. This is surprise.
00:11:53
Speaker
I had not either. And I think the only like real... strong juvenile delinquents film that I had any attachment to, at least of this era, would be Rebel Without a Cause. You know, obviously a classic and one that I was exposed to at like a young age. I think I saw it when was like 15 and was like, okay, I see why this guy's like an icon, you know? Yeah. And I think, honestly, I think I haven't seen that one since I was a teenager. I'd like to see it again. I've never that movie. love see it again.
00:12:27
Speaker
I think really good It's worth watching yeah yeah But otherwise the the kind of like lesser movies in this genre I think I remember I accused my parents from MSD3K but that was I'm most of the time I remember this title And I've seen Reefer Madness but i that's older right yeah that's But I know that one Yeah I was, ah I enjoy the like female vigilante and biker exploitation, but I think that's later in the seventies. I've been trying to find, there's a William Smith movie. That's like a biker where he's like a biker and he's bad, but then he tries to go straight and it's real tough for him. I've been trying to figure out the name of it, but I just keep finding all the like other exploitation movies that I've seen. I'm like, that's not the right one. This was not quite like those, but was still very enjoyable for similar reasons.
00:13:22
Speaker
It's probably in this book, honestly. i've been try yeah I've been trying to figure out because I can't remember if it was in the 70s or in the 60s because I feel like it was in black and white. And i was like, oh, it's the losers. But it's like, no, that's the one where they like go into a Cambodian war camp. That's a different thing.
The Making of 'Gun Girls'
00:13:39
Speaker
ah But yeah, this was a real interesting, real interesting watch.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, and boy, there was something I was going to say, but I sure did forget it. So I'm going to move on to the next segment of the show. You guys want to hear what I found out about the making of Gun Girls? It wasn't a lot.
00:13:59
Speaker
Sure. I'll bet. All right, let's hit the context section.
00:14:17
Speaker
I wish I had some context about the background of the film. Script director, actors on set. What was going on on screen? I want to hear some details.
00:14:30
Speaker
Gossips can do all that shit. Can't imagine all the time.
00:14:46
Speaker
So, Gun Girls was released December 11th, 1957.
00:14:52
Speaker
Our director, Robert C. Dirtano. And I got three taglines. Ooh. Tagline number one. Gang girls on the loose.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yes. You gotta look. That's a home run. Yeah.
00:15:12
Speaker
Tagline number two. Girls without shame, defying society and law. I think it fits for the time and is nice. Yeah.
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah. And it grounds you in the era. Mm-hmm.
00:15:28
Speaker
Number three. Every girl in the lineup, a two-time loser.
00:15:36
Speaker
It's... I kind of like that one. It's kind of nasty. I mean, it's got certain charms. It's got certain charms. It's grimy though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:48
Speaker
So I was not able to find out much of anything about the making of gun girls or its director, Robert G. Dirtano. C. Dirtano. I've mostly got bits and bobs of information. Hopefully we can compile it into into some form of gestalt. So I'm just going to sort of lay out what I've found. Mm hmm.
00:16:09
Speaker
Robert C. Dortano was born on April 21st in 1904 in Liverpool, England. Oh, interesting. Yes. So he made his first film, Racket Girls, at the age of 47. was a female wrestling picture.
00:16:27
Speaker
Which is an MST3K episode. Nice. Okay. Okay. This was the first film he was ever credited even working on.
00:16:39
Speaker
I have no idea how he got that gig, why he decided to become a filmmaker at the age of 47. He did give it a run, though. He would direct five more films over the course of the next six years.
00:16:51
Speaker
One called Paris After Midnight. Girl Gang. a Night in Hollywood. Journey to Freedom.
00:17:03
Speaker
And his final directorial effort, Gun Girls. So this is magnum opus. Yes. At the height of his craft, he had learned all his tricks at this point.
00:17:15
Speaker
Now he only ever worked on three films that he didn't direct. He was ah the associate producer on a family comedy called the laughing time that came out, I believe after the, yeah, bad vibes on that one. Yeah. There's something about that. Two Fs. Yeah.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah. worse yeah He was the editor of a Lily Sincere burlesque picture called Lily's Wedding Night.
00:17:44
Speaker
Okay. This was the only film he ever edited that he did not direct. And he was also the assistant director uncredited on the horror burlesque picture Orgy of the Dead. This one I've seen.
00:17:58
Speaker
Oh. Yeah. It's come up a couple times on the show. Mm-hmm. I think it it came up but probably when we were talking about ah Faster Pussycat Kill Kill, I'm sure, which I think is a movie that also stands in relationship to Gun Girls. yeah
00:18:17
Speaker
ah Now, Orgy of the Dead was directed by Stephen C. Apostoloff.
00:18:27
Speaker
Apostolov was the writer and producer of Dirtano's penultimate film Journey to Freedom. It was based on Apostolov's life story escaping Eastern Europe. Okay.
00:18:39
Speaker
Oh. Except so presumably with dames. With some busty dames in it. Maybe. Probably one or two. I mean, there's no reason why you couldn't chuck a dame in there. But he didn't just direct, you know, cheesecake pictures.
00:18:56
Speaker
Uh...
00:18:59
Speaker
Orgy of the Dead was also written by Ed Wood. Yeah. As you dig through Dirtano's filmography, you'll see a lot of Ed Wood connections. ah Most notably, they shared a cinematographer, William C. Thompson.
00:19:14
Speaker
Thompson was blind in one eye and colorblind in the other. But I suppose that doesn't matter much when you're making 2D black and white movies. Fair due. Yeah.
00:19:25
Speaker
At the time he had shot Gun Girls, he had been working as a cinematographer for over 40 years. Wow. Wow. Back in 1914. It's all up there. It's all up there on screen. Every bit of that wisdom.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yep. I mean, everything was in focus. Everything was lit. It's true. could see what was happening. Yep. That was a skill back then when you didn't have video feedback to let you know what it looked like.
00:19:54
Speaker
But back in 1914, he was a cinematographer on a movie called Evangeline, which was the first ever feature film shot in Canada. Wow.
00:20:07
Speaker
So interesting guy. Yeah. Now, other Wood collaborators included Timothy Farrell, who was the actor that played Joe, who also appeared in Jailbait and Glenn or Glenda to Ed Wood Pictures.
00:20:24
Speaker
And the violent years, there's a lot of shared actors here. ah you know, like, like Wes Anderson has his, you know, collection of actors he likes to use. ah Ed Wood and Robert D'Artano are sort of sharing their, you know, favorites because there's a ton of crossover between, you know, these films.
00:20:44
Speaker
Mm hmm. You got ah Tom Carey, who did set construction on Plan 9 from Outer Space. Famous set construction on Plan 9 from Outer Space. He did set design on Gun Girls.
00:20:58
Speaker
Dale Knight, who did the sound, also did sound on Bride of the Monster and Plan 9. And these are just the ties that I found sort of briefly. I imagine, Ross, in your research, this is the type of stuff that you're digging for and finding are a lot of.
00:21:12
Speaker
A little bit. I'm mostly just looking at the texts themselves. i My goal is to collect, I think, about a hundred or so of these films. and I am trying to watch all of them.
00:21:24
Speaker
So I can't spend too much time, you know, looking at the production history of them yet. um most i mean, we'll talk about it later, but most of my interest is in like the first five minutes.
00:21:37
Speaker
ah Okay. these Yeah. just just Just picking up the vibe and moving on. but what well But with some of these, it's like, they're so bad that you can't look away. you know, and this is definitely one of them.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm sure a lot of them are so bad, you kind of have to look away. The type of movie we try to avoid on this show. ah Now, ah the other thing you'll notice in the credits is that there are several guys named Dirtano, other than Robert C. Dirtano.
00:22:06
Speaker
ah Specifically, the screenplay is credited to R.C. Dirtano and the editing to Bob Dirtano. All these guys are the same guy. now It also says that... Like Steven Soderbergh.
00:22:21
Speaker
Yeah, or a ah Robert Rodriguez type. Well, except with an important distinction. Okay, It says that it's based on the book Girls on Parole by Robert C. Dirtano. Near as I can tell, this book does not exist. Yeah, I don't think it does.
00:22:38
Speaker
Okay, yes that's intriguing. The American Film Institute under their listing for it, they're like, we're not sure if that's an actual book. So it's certainly questionable. Now, he's not the only director ah that we've covered that uses fake credits to hide the fact that they've taken on a lot of different jobs.
00:22:56
Speaker
James Nguyen from Burdemic did that. Neil Breen did that. Filthy Phil Phillips did that. ah But when you compare to somebody like Robert Rodriguez, who does a bunch of different jobs and takes credit for it all, you can tell he's proud of the work that he's done despite his budget. Whereas all these other guys are ashamed of their budget and are trying to hide it and pad it out and make it look like it's a bigger production.
00:23:23
Speaker
So I think that's that's a good insight into the the mindset of Robert C. Dirtano as a filmmaker. And it's like there's some people like John Carpenter who is like, yeah, you're good at two things, do two things. Robert D'Artano and you know James Dwayne, it's like get good at one thing. yeah Yeah. You got you gotta to run before – walk before you can run, sir My other thought is that I've got thoughts about Robert D'Artagnan just as an entity because I'm convinced that book doesn't exist.
00:23:56
Speaker
It's possible there's a multiplicity situation going on. And so there are just several clones of him working on the film. Possible. Possible. I like this as an idea.
00:24:07
Speaker
it's only just watched that recently. Nice. Tuck, tuck, fold. Tuck, tuck, fold. It's also possible that I'm wondering if he even exists because there's no photos of him.
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, I did. ahead. I did in my research ah find Kino Lorber box set that had two Dirtano movies in it. And one of them had a commentary or something, some sort of bonus feature with a guy that was interviewing Dirtano, who was like 90 years old at the time.
00:24:39
Speaker
Okay. So. So unless it's an elaborate ruse, I think he did at least exist. Because I was wondering if he was like a tax writer, like if it was like a pseudonym for Ed Wood or something. And it was like, oh, we're going to shuttle all the debt onto Dirtano and then push him off a waterfall or whatever. Because he was born in 1904.
00:25:00
Speaker
So he had the the Titanic happened in his living memory. And then he died in 2005. So like he could have listened to American Idiot. What a life. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Titanic to 9-11. A life framed by disaster. Yeah. Sorry to bring the room down. His night nurse could have had, like, American Dad on in the background. Wow.
00:25:35
Speaker
Uh, now, uh, the only other thing that I've got, uh, that I found is i found one contemporaneous review of gun girls. Uh, I found it in the December 11th, 1957 issue of motion picture exhibition magazine or exhibitor magazine rather.
00:25:53
Speaker
And it reads as follows X-ray. They called all their reviews X-rays for some reasons. X-ray. The best way to describe this unbelievably bad film is to say that it is cheaply contrived trash of the most lurid type.
00:26:10
Speaker
Wow. Acting and direction, as well as what little production there is, unreal most amateurishly. Any moral preachment found herein does not ring true.
00:26:23
Speaker
This is so obviously an attempt at tawdry sensationalism, with hardly a redeeming feature that it is not worth serious consideration save for the possible tarnished exploitation dollar it may attract in the most undiscriminating drop-in spots.
00:26:40
Speaker
The girls are sexually attractive, although their acting is atrocious. The film flirts with censorship on three counts. Use of guns, some undressing, and passionate lovemaking scenes.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yep. I feel like the really important part of that review was at the end. Yeah. that's Really? Hmm. Flirting with censorship. I better go i better go make sure we better see how close they're flirting.
00:27:17
Speaker
And disapprove the whole time. Definitely. And I mean, I'm sure your listeners are well familiar with this, but the key word also is exploitation. ah so this is an exploitation film through and through. oh for sure. That flirting with the censorship idea.
00:27:33
Speaker
i mean, that and you pick a title and the making of the film is, you know, you know, secondary to that. So that was the mode of production for these movies was pick a good title, you know, do as much as you can get away with, and then, you know, do the rest as cheap as you possibly can. um And that was a way for these small studios to sort of make profitable money ball style movie making an era where Hollywood was really struggling.
00:28:05
Speaker
And you could see, because that was Exhibitor magazine, that was for movie yeah theater owners to find what films they want to show. And to put like, you know, flirts with censorship in this way, this way, this way.
00:28:18
Speaker
Certain theater owners, that's what they're looking for. Other theater owners see that as warning, but some of them see that as like, okay, I can turn a buck on that. I know my crowd. yeah So other juvenile delinquent films of 1957.
00:28:34
Speaker
my My humble attempt to create a list for you, Ross. ah Surprisingly long, busy year. It is the biggest year. I'll just tell you that off the bat. Okay. That explains. Okay, here we go then. I'll try and bang these out.
00:28:49
Speaker
If any of them are worth ah slowing down to mention, flag me down. ah Four boys and a gun. Good. The young stranger.
00:29:01
Speaker
Good. The delinquents. Medium. Untamed Youth. Very good. one of my favorites. Curfew Breakers.
00:29:12
Speaker
I've seen it. Yes, it's it's kind of... don't want to say it's like this one. ah bad. It's bad. Yeah. What am I talking about? Bad, bad, yeah bad, bad, bad.
00:29:25
Speaker
Keep going. Great title though. Drag strip girl. Yeah. Medium. The delicate delinquent. Jerry Lewis comedy.
00:29:36
Speaker
It's sort of a, like a satire spoof. All right. Interesting. Telling that it was a big enough genre to get spoofed. Dino. Good.
00:29:48
Speaker
Good. Salminium. Love Salminium. Reform School Girl. Medium. Hot Rod Rumble. Medium. Bad.
00:29:59
Speaker
No Time to be Young. ah Interesting. Okay. Now you're speaking my language. The Wayward Girl.
00:30:10
Speaker
Oh, I don't think that's on my list. Oh, no, it is. I don't have it. All right. ah Teenage Doll. Good. Interesting.
00:30:21
Speaker
so Sorority. Surprisingly good. Okay. Sorority girl. Meh. Okay. motordu Motorcycle gang.
00:30:32
Speaker
a I don't like the motorcycle ones, but I'll say medium. Okay. Young and dangerous. Good. The violators.
00:30:45
Speaker
I haven't watched it yet. I don't know if I have it. It's on my list. I don't think I... No, I don't have it. Teenage Thunder.
00:30:56
Speaker
I have it. Yeah, have it. I haven't seen it. All right. That's a great title. And last but not least, not from 1957, I Was a Teenage Werewolf. That is a good one.
00:31:09
Speaker
i I should hope so. I mean, that's a title. another is that Is that a Corman? Yeah, it's AIP. Nice. We've got a movie starring Michael Landon. Yeah. um So there's way more than that. Oh, I'm sure. i Yeah. But I mean, obviously there's a ton.
00:31:31
Speaker
The other ones of note that I'll point out. um Teenage Doll is interesting. It's got a cool little fort in it. Untamed Youth is probably the most entertaining of the ones that you mentioned.
00:31:43
Speaker
The Young Stranger has Dano from Hawaii Five-0. And I'm blanking on his name. He was oned a Swiss Family Robinson. He's really good in that.
00:31:55
Speaker
Okay. Teenage Wolfpack is the only other one that I've mentioned from here. Good title. It is a West German film. And it is the first, I think it's the first film of Horst Buchholz.
00:32:09
Speaker
who okay they called at the time the German James Dean. But he was, you know, he came to the U S and he was a big star. ah He was in one, two, three, one of my favorite movies.
00:32:20
Speaker
ah I liked it so much. I did it the first episode of my show. eyes But I think that's the only other one of here to point out. There's, there's some really weird ones.
00:32:33
Speaker
But I think that's, those are the ones that I'll tack on for now. All right. Well, then let's get on to the plot of Gun Girls. Yeah.
Exploring the Plot of 'Gun Girls'
00:33:00
Speaker
Blood bumper, listen to me. I'm gonna give you the plot summary. Come on, baby. Here's the synopsis.
00:33:12
Speaker
Blood bumper, blood bumper.
00:33:25
Speaker
We open on credits, rolling over an abstracted still image of a street corner, and an orchestral score plays. This opening number will be our outro today.
00:33:37
Speaker
Soon, a narrator is explaining to us that crime is bad. And it's also up 1 million percent in every major city. And the bigger the city, the more the crime is. And it's all being committed by radical teens. And we pan down a lineup of teen girl criminals.
00:33:58
Speaker
As if to demonstrate the point that crime is bad, we cut to a pair of young ladies mugging a middle-aged man. The brunette, Dora, makes out with their victim in a back alley, while the blonde, Teddy, sneaks up and beans him with a blackjack. You don't really see black jacks around anymore.
00:34:19
Speaker
No, but you see him a ton in these. Oh, I bet. This whomping a guy in an alley is a very common trope in these early movies. Nice. Nice. Yeah, I have not used the the verb kosh in a long, long time. Indeed, probably ever. I don't know if I've ever used that verb of my own accord.
00:34:41
Speaker
So Dora and Teddy are going to be ah two of our gun girls. The third gun girl, Joy, currently stuck in a meeting with her parents and her parole officer.
00:34:55
Speaker
The parole officer does a lot of preaching about the dangers of juvenile delinquency. Wow, does he do a lot of preaching? Oh, it's very dull. ah
00:35:08
Speaker
Joy's parents blame the company that she's been keeping. Meanwhile, over at Teddy's place, Teddy and Dora count up the loot from their mugging. Dora muses that this is the first time she ever lured a man into an alley.
00:35:22
Speaker
But they don't really have time to process that. They finally saved up enough money to buy a couple of guns from their fence. Joe. This will really help them level up in terms of crime.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. na Dora's a little nervous, but anything would be better than moving back in with her mother and drunken lout stepfather. Teddy is psyched because she knows, quote, with a gun, you're somebody.
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah. But does not read the line that well. No. you gave a more convincing performance. I feel like she improves with time, but yeah, in this first scene, I was like, ooh, Teddy, not doing so hot. It's pretty impressive that I've seen most of these people in several movies, but every time I'm like, oh, this is the first time they've ever acted before.
00:36:13
Speaker
and Yeah. Yeah. They don't have a lot to work with, and I have a feeling they don't have a lot of time to get that work done. And yeah. And she's delivering these lines while also changing your clothes. And it's difficult to do both of those things at once, even if you're a good actor. Yeah.
00:36:34
Speaker
It's true. It's a difficult bit of business for an actor for sure. And they're constantly changing shirts. It's so funny. It's like, well, we better change.
00:36:44
Speaker
Let's go to the closet, get some clothes, take off this one, loosen that up, put this one on, tighten it up, tighten that back up. And then we'll tuck it in. Yep. Oh, forgot about the Four layers to three and then back to four again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I thought it was it was really interesting how how last week, of course, in in Nude on the Moon, we had lots of non-sexual nudity, and then this movie is packed with sexual non-nudity. really way to put Which feels so much skeevier.
00:37:19
Speaker
Yeah. Let's see So they go head over to see their fence, Joe, at the studio apartment where he lives and traffics in stolen goods. They hand him a wad of greenbacks and he digs out a pair of pistols from his underwear drawer.
00:37:35
Speaker
So I got to say, Joe might not be a good man, but I kind of loved him at the same time. Like every Joe scene, I was like, good, Joe's on screen. This is awesome.
00:37:51
Speaker
Let me make you a drink. And then he just grabs bottle. Joe is the better actor in the film. I feel like he's having a good time with it and he gets to like be enjoyably bad as opposed to like exemplary bad. You know what I mean?
00:38:08
Speaker
Yeah, he gets to be a little bit of scenery chewing. to be little bit of like a mustache twirler. He doesn't have to be redeemed at some point. Yeah.
00:38:19
Speaker
He knows that's not required in his performance. For the first three scenes you see him, he every time you see him, when you first see him, he's kissing somebody, which I thought was really hilarious. Are you ready for the plot twist?
00:38:33
Speaker
Oh, geez. in In real life, he was a ah parole officer or probation officer not or a bailiff or some sort of right judge police.
00:38:45
Speaker
OK. And so, you know, he kept his day job, which was wise. Yeah. But he was a law man. Probably a chance to cut loose a little bit, pretend to be one of those people that he was always speaking to.
00:38:57
Speaker
Chance to to smooch some 28 30 year old teenagers. Some 45 year old teenagers, yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't complain.
00:39:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's fine. Better than real teenagers, you know? Yeah, absolutely. So Joe proceeds to mansplain to Teddy how a gun works.
00:39:20
Speaker
And then Teddy grabs him out of his hands and said, let's conceal these weapons. And she and Dora tuck the guns into their stockings, which I'm going to say she had a hand cannon. That is going to ruin that stocking.
00:39:35
Speaker
Desert Eagle 0.50. That looked like an army cult to me. That was a serious piece of hardware. Joe stashes the cash in the steamer trunk in a drawer full of cash that he has. And Teddy eyeballs the money covetously. And it looked like they might have been Confederate dollars or something. They were very strange. There is really weird looking money. Yeah.
00:40:00
Speaker
And also like poker chips just to like signify like things of value. are you You get it. You can turn it in for stuff. Sort of like how crows collect like buttons and stuff. yeah It's just his little hoard.
00:40:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's his his fun little junk drawer. Joe notices her noticing, though. So there's a rift forming, perhaps. perhaps Perhaps. Teddy and Dora, though, they start up their crime spree. First, they rob a gas station attendant. Which is weird to me. to like Your first victim, gas station attendant. it's like, why him?
00:40:38
Speaker
Well, they always got the roll of cash to make change. Oh, I hadn't thought about it that way. Oh. I thought they just needed to gas up the car for the rest of the crime spree. I kind of thought it was that. They're like, we'll get the gas and his $12. But I forgot that he's making change out there. He's basically a register.
00:40:59
Speaker
I also think it's somewhere that you can film without having to go inside. That's also true. Also a good point. yeah yeah Lots of nice natural light on a California day. Easy peasy.
00:41:11
Speaker
Meanwhile, Joe is making out with Joy back at his place. It turns out those two are an item. ah And Joy's parents were right. Joy is running with a shitty crowd.
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah. Soon, Teddy and Dora are coming back to Joe's studio apartment to sell him some of their newly stolen goods. He's not particularly impressed by the candelabra, but the jewelry catches his interest.
00:41:37
Speaker
And he tells them he knows about a big score they could get in on. His gal, Joy, got a job at a warehouse, and they keep about six grand in payroll in the safe. With Joy as the inside woman, it should be easy money, and that's about $70,000 in today's money. Okay.
00:41:53
Speaker
okay Yeah, that's all right. Nice little earner for a night's work. So the next day, Joy is running late for their heist. ah Or should I say their heist planning ah hangout because she lost track of time while she was making out with Joe. Joe's just a great kisser, I think, canonically.
00:42:15
Speaker
new And he kisses in the neck, too, which I like. It's like, yeah no lips. No lips. Don't touch with Joe. It's like bury your head in the neck and the cheek.
00:42:25
Speaker
And just kind of roll, roll that head back and forth. It's classic 50s kissing. Yeah, it's passionate. Passionate pressing. He's got a mustache, right? Yeah, it's tickling her neck with his delightful little push broom.
00:42:43
Speaker
But yeah, eventually, Joy is able to pull herself away from Joe's luscious lips and head over to Teddy's. Joe, for his part, meets with his criminal underling, Luke, who warns him that these gun girls have just been too wild, stealing everything that isn't bolted down.
00:43:02
Speaker
I really love that Luke's name is literally one letter off of book. Mm hmm. Perfect. You my favorite.
00:43:13
Speaker
Oh, Mook. Okay. I thought you said Book. I'm like, I don't know what. Mook. And then what he is. Yeah. He's Luke the Mook for sure. Luke the Mook. ah But ah Joe gives him five bucks and a shot of whiskey and tells him not to worry about it. That's good enough for old Luke.
00:43:31
Speaker
In the meantime, Joy finally makes it to the inaugural meeting of the heist planning committee.
00:43:38
Speaker
Teddy tells Joy she'll need her to do four things for their heist. Just four little things. She'll have to open the back gate. She'll have to get the combination of this for the safe from the boss.
00:43:52
Speaker
She'll have to open a window that Teddy and Dora can use to get in. And she'll have to hang out after work so she can show Teddy and Dora which window is the open window. Really makes me feel like Teddy and Dora are extraneous to this heist.
00:44:05
Speaker
Yeah. Also, the idea that it's like, why don't you show them the window on the night before? Yes. So then you can separate. It turns out, I will say that there are many problems with the way that they commit crimes, which is where I think the Ned Flanders aspect of it's like, this is how a criminal would do it. It's like, no, it's not how criminal would do it at all.
00:44:32
Speaker
It's like they over explain certain parts, like with the gun sale that takes like 25 minutes. And it's, you know, he's like, and here's how you use this one. And hey, if we have guns, we can do crimes sort of like, ah you know, money can be exchanged for goods and services like kind of thing. And then for this, they're just like, oh, yeah, we'll, you know, figure it out when we get there, basically.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And they also were like, just get the combination to the safe from the boss somehow. And that just happens. They don't, no one suggests how it happens. We don't know it happened. It just happened. Don't even worry about that.
00:45:09
Speaker
It's definitely fine.
00:45:12
Speaker
Now, already this is not sounding like a great plan, ah but to top it off, Joy starts complaining that she's feeling a little nauseous. I'm sure that's no big deal, though. You know what that means?
00:45:25
Speaker
I didn't until several scenes later, but yeah.
00:45:32
Speaker
Maybe she's gluten intolerant. Could be. Celiac. It's going around. We get another holdup from Dora and Teddy. Joe sends Luke off to get some uncut gems cut. And Joy's parents get another lecture from the parole officer.
00:45:50
Speaker
And in this scene, we find out that Joy's dad is definitely the worst actor in the movie. Yeah. Oh, my God. He was the one that really embarrassed himself. And in this crowd, that's saying something.
00:46:02
Speaker
I also really enjoyed that during the mugging, they don't disguise themselves in any way. No, they're always just like, go ahead. Then we'll tell your wife you were kissing a girl. Yeah.
00:46:15
Speaker
Yeah. And the guy's like, damn it. They got me. They got me. Fairsy squancy. I love Doris too damn much to do that to her. It's almost time for the heist.
00:46:27
Speaker
We finally get a scene of these kids just being kids when Dora gets to park with her boyfriend, Jimmy, and explain that she can't go to the dance with him on Sunday because she has to go do something with her friend Teddy that night.
00:46:42
Speaker
I thought this was a great scene for Dora, and it really did bring you back to these being kids, I think. Yeah. It was a good reminder, yeah.
00:46:53
Speaker
You needed it at some point. Then we're off to the heist. Everything goes wrong at the heist. Yeah. Well, also, say at least it's insane to me. She's like, you see that switch, turn it on.
00:47:09
Speaker
So she turns it on, which then sets off an alarm. and She's like, wait, turn it off. It's like, why did you turn it on in the first place? Because it seems like it's like, oh, we need lights in here. It's like, you're committing a robbery. So don't turn on the lights.
00:47:24
Speaker
real It's like rule number three. It doesn't set off an alarm. I think that the watch, the night watchman has his reading lamp on and because they turned on light somewhere else, it dimmed that light. That's what it was. Because this working factory has like poor power. but Like it has like poor power. And so it's like, uh, you know, yeah, this scene kind of made this whole movie feel like a gender swapped bottle rocket to me. Oh, in that that's an interesting observation. Yeah.
00:47:58
Speaker
I was thinking Ocean's Eleven, but okay. Sure. Similar vibes. Ocean's Eleven, the heist goes great. Bottle Rocket, the heist goes very poorly. This heist also goes very poorly.
00:48:10
Speaker
ah First of all, they're sneaking in wearing pencil skirts. They tip off a guard by flipping a giant electrical switch. The guard instantly finds them. Teddy cold cocks him with the butt of her gun, but as they flee, Dora realizes that she left her gun inside in an office.
00:48:28
Speaker
The guard flips the alarm. So the girls have to abandon their getaway car. Then to top it off, when they get back to the hideout, they find out that the take wasn't six grand. It was only $14. Yeah.
00:48:45
Speaker
What I love is they figured that out after. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they couldn't break open the cash box till they got back. and they They don't want to mess around with that while they're there. We'll check out the cash box later.
00:48:57
Speaker
Uh, Newspaper headlines rave that there's a teen crime wave destroying the city. There's just botched payroll robberies happening every Friday.
00:49:11
Speaker
Luckily, the police are closing in on the suspects in the $14 warehouse payroll case. Teddy and Dora, they want to get out of town. They ask Joe to front them the money, and when he refuses, they rob him with the very guns they sold him.
00:49:27
Speaker
Irony. Yeah.
00:49:31
Speaker
And if Joe's day wasn't lousy enough. Joy comes by a little bit later. And it turns out she was suffering from Chekhov's nausea earlier on. Now she's pregnant.
00:49:43
Speaker
No. I found this scene interesting, though, because they never, I mean, like, you figure it out, but because of the time it is, they can't say that she's pregnant. And so it's never explicitly stated.
00:49:55
Speaker
it feels very concrete, but at the same time, it was like someone just constructed a statue in front of you without you noticing, which is really crazy to me. But it was yeah a little bit of ah censorship maneuvering.
00:50:09
Speaker
On the other hand, it's so silly. Obviously, it its she's explicitly pregnant in The Good Girl. But she had a scene like this, too, where she wasn't feeling well. And I don't know, there's just gotta be a ah better way.
00:50:28
Speaker
Gotta to be a better way. Yeah. Yeah. So can interject my little ah history ah lesson here for this? Okay. Please. So in the 50s, one of the ways that you said you were pregnant, especially if you weren't married, was you were, quote, in trouble.
00:50:45
Speaker
A girl in trouble was a pregnant, unmarried woman. And so for these, the girl delinquency films, there's always at least one pregnant girl.
00:50:56
Speaker
And the way that juvenile delinquency was defined, or at least, I mean, we have the sort of criminal definition, but then we have the social definition, which is what I'm more interested in. And we can circle back to some other parts later, but delinquency as a social issue was defined differently for girls and boys.
00:51:17
Speaker
right And the way that was defined for girls was, are you behaving in a way that conforms to the rigid gender norms of the 1950s? So girls who were too interested in boys or not interested at all in boys...
00:51:35
Speaker
were defined as deviant and delinquent in cases like rebel without a cause where Judy is not, ah you know, promiscuous, but then in films like this, where this girl is promiscuous and we'll see the consequences of her actions, you know, down the road, ah you know,
00:51:57
Speaker
It's, you know, it's a moral issue or whatever, but it's like she faces a punishment for her actions textually. um That is the end result of her behaving outside of the normal guidelines, even though behaving that way is not itself criminal.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah. She gets God's judgment. Mm hmm. Well, eventually, Joe figures out what Joy is talking about, and we figure out that Joe has figured it out, even though she can't say the actual word. Somehow, this knowledge has been imparted between all three of us. It's, ah like you say, Greg, a delicate dance that is and interesting to watch.
00:52:39
Speaker
And Joe responds, I thought we had an understanding. I was in the mood, and you were willing. Then she slaps him, and he kicks her out. ah Meanwhile, the cops are closing in on Teddy and Dora, who are packing their bags.
00:52:55
Speaker
Joy stops by to change her clothes. And while she's there, she asks Teddy if she can borrow her gun for the afternoon and even offers and her to let her borrow her coat as collateral.
00:53:08
Speaker
Teddy really likes this coat, so she agrees.
00:53:14
Speaker
Joy heads straight to Joe's place, only to find ah his new gal, Trixie, hanging around while Joe made a run to the liquor store. She slaps Trixie around before pulling a gun on her and telling her to amscray.
00:53:28
Speaker
Meanwhile, Dora and Teddy hear on the radio that the cops are closing in on them, so they hop in their car, only for the cops to spot them and force them off the road into a deadly car wreck on a winding mountain road. Yep.
00:53:42
Speaker
Back at Joe's place, Joe's come home just in time for Joy to tell him what a heel he is and then shoot him twice in the chest.
00:53:52
Speaker
That's right. At the one hour, one minute and 27 mark for the first time in a movie called Gun Girls, a girl fires a gun. Boom.
00:54:03
Speaker
It's a real surfing Dracula situation. Uh, joy it immediately calls the police and says, hello, police. I just killed a man. I'll be waiting when you get here.
00:54:16
Speaker
She luckily doesn't have to wait very long. The police come and snatch her up. And just when you think the movie's over, there's a coda. It seems that poor sweet Dora survived her car crash, but just barely.
00:54:30
Speaker
Her boyfriend, Jimmy, weeps by her bedside and insists that she's going to pull through when the single funniest thing that happens in the entire movie happens. He looks over at a nurse and a nurse is just like,
00:54:45
Speaker
um nope. It's incredible. Uh,
00:54:55
Speaker
Jimmy tries to understand why Dora turned to a life of crime. She explains that she just wanted to belong. And then she dies. And then we cut back to a police lineup of girls, just like at the beginning. And the narrator lets us know that these gals could be our very own daughter.
00:55:15
Speaker
The end. Can you believe it
00:55:21
Speaker
Final thoughts, five-star ratings in terms of watchability and weirdness. Greg, what do you think? ah So I found this one pretty entertaining, but at the same time, at certain parts may be a touch boring. ah Not always, but I found myself drifting off a little bit. But I think that like it's a fun curio. It has a lot of interesting value to it. I'm definitely glad I watched it. I don't think it's for every bad movie watcher, but I think that there is a bad movie watcher that's going to hear us talking about this and think,
00:55:55
Speaker
That sounds interesting. And that person should definitely watch this one. ah it was a good time. I'm glad that I've seen it, but I'm going to give it a watchability three. ah And then as far as weirdness goes, i think the genre is a little weird, but it's more like heightened, like a surreal weirdness, like a heightened reality. Or as you, it was a very, very on the nose to say it's a Ned Flanders script. Because it feels very much like someone's like, I know what crime is. It's like, I don't think you do, but I think you think you do. ah And so I'll say a two for weirdness.
00:56:33
Speaker
Okay. What about you, Anna? What do you think? um I'll go with three and a half for watchability. um it is It's just it's so short.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, no that is true. So yeah so it under is boring occasionally, but... but you can push through. And it is it is fun. for edge scotts It's got a lot of great lines and a lot of goofy stuff, and it made me excited to watch ah to watch more of these movies. I didn't watch more, um honestly, because I didn't want to...
00:57:14
Speaker
To get confused. You know what I mean? I didn't want to remember something. and yeah um But I will be in the future. um As for weirdness, honestly, I don't think it's that weird.
00:57:28
Speaker
I'll give it a two- That's fair. I lighted very similarly to you guys. I gave it three stars for watchability. I think the fact that there isn't a cleaner copy does hurt it.
00:57:40
Speaker
You know, if there was like a nice restoration of this, it'd be easier for me to lock in on, but because I have hearing problems and because people's faces kind of get washed out, it can be a little bit harder to lock in. So I think that does hurt it, but it is breezy. It's got dames. It's got a heist. It's got guns. You know, it's got people getting out there and cutting it up.
00:58:04
Speaker
You know, it's a good time. Weirdness, I gave it one and a half. I think the the preachy parole officer and the multiple changing scenes are all quite sort of unnatural.
00:58:16
Speaker
But there's not a lot here that will make you you sort of stand up and say, what the fuck is this? You know what I mean? like It's comprehensible. So what about you, Ross, in terms of watchability and weirdness out of five stars? Where did you land?
00:58:29
Speaker
i think I'm going to go kind of straight down the middle, just like y'all did. Um, it is weird that in a 60 minute movie and you're like, yeah, they could have cut, you know, quite a bit out of this, uh, you know, it sags in places, which, you know, for two episodes of Seinfeld length of movie, it's like, yeah, i mean, this really should be a lot tighter. Um,
00:58:52
Speaker
Yeah, this could be a 40-minute episode of Buffy or something. Exactly. This movie could have been an email. um And then, I mean, for weirdness, this is not the weirdest of them.
00:59:04
Speaker
think it's... I don't even want to say surreal. It's just like... Sometimes you think to yourself, like, well, it's the past. They didn't know how to make movies. But it's like, no, they knew how to make movies. These people were just really exceptionally bad at it.
00:59:19
Speaker
And I think... maybe for watchability and weirdness, if you are questioning whether you can do something in your own life, watch a movie like gun girls and think to yourself, I could absolutely do whatever challenge is ahead of me better than, you know, dirt, Hano and company did, uh, putting this together.
00:59:39
Speaker
um so I'm going to say three for each. Okay. okay And then I do have a couple of other little points that we can touch back on maybe in terms of weirdness.
00:59:52
Speaker
Well, we'll see if they come up in the course of our interview, because our next segment is when we are talking to you. We're just asking you questions.
01:00:05
Speaker
Very rare bumpers.
01:00:09
Speaker
Thump her head, rejoice.
01:00:35
Speaker
Because that's what we're doing next.
01:00:45
Speaker
That's right, Ross Lennon, film historian, we're asking you questions.
Juvenile Delinquent Film Genre
01:00:50
Speaker
I'm so honored to have unlocked a rare bumper. i'm just picturing Mulder and Scully at the end of postmodern Prometheus. So...
01:00:58
Speaker
so To you, what would you say are the defining characteristics of a juvenile delinquent film? What separates it from other, say, teen movies? So when we look at these movies, there's a couple of different phases that Bedrock, the guy who wrote that book, had laid out. And I agree with him.
01:01:22
Speaker
really for the most part. So rather than just saying like you get this unending chain of movies, starting with Blackboard Jungle and going up to Mean Girls or I don't know what the most recent teen movie is.
01:01:35
Speaker
um You get these different distinct phases. And this first one is the juvenile delinquent movie. um And then it starts, you start to see like the teen movies.
01:01:47
Speaker
um And I think one of the defining points of this is that you see most of the elements of exploitation, ah okay which to go back to the very beginning, we call that like a frame up shot or a setup shot.
01:02:01
Speaker
that sort of narration talking about, you know, crime is a social issue sort of because these films are being made during the final days of the production code of the Hays code.
01:02:14
Speaker
And so in following that code, which for those who aren't aware, like, rather than Hollywood being regulated by the government starting in the 1930s, they sort of did the same thing as like the ESRB or, you know, the parental advisory stickers on CDs where they're like, well, we'll regulate ourselves. yeah That way the government has to get involved. And then when things start to go bad for us, we can peel away the, you know, restrictions and not have to, you know, deal with you guys. Yeah.
01:02:47
Speaker
And so a lot of the rules for the Hays Code were, you know, no sex, no violence. Crime has to, you know, see justice at the end of the film. And yeah so for these teen delinquent movies, they would use that frame of shot to say like, crime is a social issue, you know, this very serious issue. it affects you. It affects you. It affects you.
01:03:12
Speaker
And then we see crime get its punishment in the end. um And what's interesting about this one is that like with Blackboard Jungle, we talk about the idea of the jungle as this sort of like conflict between civilization and, you know, of there's ah obviously some very ugly racial connotations of the jungle. um But like this film really leans into that idea of, know,
01:03:44
Speaker
teenage savagery sort of co-opting a lot of that ugly language. And this film leans into it probably harder than all of the other ones.
01:03:55
Speaker
o Yeah. These gals go really hard in young girls. They're like robbing beer trucks at one point. They are like a two-woman crime wave. They're not just like sticking up old ladies or stealing an apple off from the fruit stand, you know? But what's interesting is that it's like we do see crime, like teenage crime, because the FBI starts, you know, measuring juvenile crime statistics in this time.
01:04:23
Speaker
Crime goes up starting in the 50s and just keeps going up through, I think, the 70s. So it never dips or goes down. But I think a lot of that has to do with the formalization of policing, the idea we're keeping these statistics, the idea of like, well, what counts as a crime? Yeah. And then as you get into the sixties and a lot of youth political action, ah it you know, becomes like criminal criminalized. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:55
Speaker
But what's interesting is, is that it's like these films are all about maintaining this idea of law and order that itself has a lot of, you know, very ugly racial connotations. Absolutely. These almost entirely all white films.
01:05:11
Speaker
um And so I believe that one of the ways that they sort of. into Like one of the ways that they sort of talk about crime is that these.
01:05:23
Speaker
teenagers are like othered, like they're otherized. Right. think that that's, I mean, it's obviously very ugly, but it just sort of speaks to, I think the way that they were trying to delineate like acceptable behavior versus unacceptable behavior.
01:05:43
Speaker
um Well, and it's also, it's putting a, it's It's putting a remove or a veneer in between your, you know, your fear of Black teenagers specifically becomes a fear of all teenagers.
01:06:01
Speaker
um And so that means on screen, you know, they're all white teenagers, but they are, you know, they are representing, you know, just terrifying youths.
01:06:15
Speaker
yeah And and that that was an interesting thing I think I found listening to your pod because I can see that that same pattern still happens, that ah genres that are mostly white are really being used to work out ah racial anxieties or also being used to work out racial anxieties because I think, you know, I think that the fear of white teenagers was also real.
01:06:42
Speaker
And also just... something that's interesting about this is like figuring out who lives and who dies in these movies because, you know, the Hays Code sort of dictates like that criminal activity has to be punished. And so who lives and who dies in these movies is often sort of a, as as I interpret it, a way of like, well, who is redeemable in society? Like who can, you know, exist beyond the film versus who needs to be shown to have a clear and concrete like,
01:07:15
Speaker
the wages of sin is death, you know, sort of a thing. Yeah. It's interesting that joy gets to live because, well, she doesn't go in during the heist.
01:07:25
Speaker
Right. And also she only kills Joe because she's been spurned. And so she still gets punished, but she gets to live because all of her crimes are either venal or relatable.
01:07:40
Speaker
But ah one thing I was curious about, you know, cause it seems like, we're talking a lot of this as being sort of shocking and, and putting fear into the audience, but I imagine teens were also going to these movies and seeing themselves reflected it because teenagers were sort of a relatively new invention in around this time. And so seeing that identity reflected back at them for the first time, they must've been going to these movies too.
01:08:06
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's i mean that's a great way to sort of lead into how these films evolve is you know these these films were trying to get a you know an audience like these films are cheap and just trying to drum up an audience.
01:08:19
Speaker
Obviously, teenagers are not new, but what's new is teen culture. In the post-war economy, there's you know we have this thriving middle class. Obviously, there's a lot of you know delineations in terms of who gets to participate in that new economy and sort of reap the benefits of it.
01:08:37
Speaker
ah But teen culture, kids are able to go to school, stay in school longer. There's more ah you know like spending money. um Car culture is exploding at this time. You're able to, you know, hot rod culture is something. If you look through that list of movies, you'll see a ton of hot rod and drive strip kind of movies. Car culture with the expanding of the interstate highway system and the suburbs.
01:09:05
Speaker
You know, teenagers have access to cars to participate in culture in ways that they didn't before. prior Yeah, that freedom of motion changes everything. It's it's really it's really liberatory for a lot of people.
01:09:18
Speaker
um And so what happens is you have this teen culture and there's all of this money sloshing around. And so teenagers are the only ones going to movies.
01:09:29
Speaker
And so these films start to become popular with teenagers. And as we move from the juvenile delinquency movie to the teen movie, it's sort of serving the audience as opposed to we're making this movie to sort of scare the general public because the general public is not going. You know, the teenagers are going and they want to see teenagers on the screen and they don't want to necessarily be lectured at.
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah. And so you start get in 58, 59 more fun teen movies. and And that leads into the beach parties and all the other stuff of the 60s and beyond. there Okay. All right.
01:10:13
Speaker
Another question I got here for you. Obviously, there's a lot of lost media from this era. You mentioned a lot of movies that you haven't been able to track down yet. what's What's the one Holy Grail?
01:10:25
Speaker
What's the one movie? Because we love lost media on here, I got to say. Anything that we've found that's been lost and subsequently... Or yeah, anything that's been lost and subsequently found, it's almost always great stuff.
01:10:35
Speaker
what's your What's your Holy Grail? That's a good question because of the ones I haven't found yet... it's like I know so little about them.
01:10:47
Speaker
yeah i mean, I hardly know about the ones that I do have. so um So there's not one that you've been like reading about and being like, oh man, I'd love to drag that one. There's a couple that I have either on DVD or I've seen on like Turner Classic movies, but I don't have digitized copies of.
01:11:06
Speaker
um That is kind of the hard part is that for these digital versions, I'm kind of having to cobble them together from other scans that I have found. um There are some like The Green-Eyed Blonde, which is a really, i mean, that's a five on the weird scale for sure. that That movie is actually probably the most upsetting of the ones that I've watched.
01:11:30
Speaker
It takes place in a girls, like, I don't want to say reform school. It's more like a group home. um for troubled girls. um And it's very upsetting, but it starts and ends with this like really peppy, upbeat love song that is totally, totally inconsistent with the rest of the film.
01:11:50
Speaker
um I've seen that on Turner Classic Movies. I haven't been able to find it. Stakeout on Dope Street is another one that I've seen, but I don't have. And I'd say that's probably the one because that's a good, you know, drug and crime kind of a picture.
01:12:05
Speaker
ah great title I would be able to write a lot about yeah
01:12:11
Speaker
well do you guys have any questions for Ross Ross is there anything you want us to ask you Matt tell us first of all tell us about your podcast tell us So it's the History on Film podcast. It's been going for a couple of years now. um It is sort of, it's I believe in public history, which is taking everything that we do in the Academy and sharing it with the rest of the world.
01:12:33
Speaker
I think there's a lot of value in that. I think there's a lot of value in that, especially now in this time and place. Absolutely. It's not... The show is not entirely about juvenile delinquency movies, I promise. I'm doing a little series on it, which is basically sort of a bigger version of what we've talked about today, just because the show is on break and might be on break for a little while longer.
01:12:59
Speaker
um But we've done stuff like talk about the cultural history of 2000s indie rock. We did a history of the Golden Age of the Simpsons, the Middle Ages on computer games.
01:13:13
Speaker
We looked at... one of the topics for this season that I might carry into next season was sort of the end of history moment of the 1990s. And so looking at films like Bulwerth and GoldenEye as historical documents,
01:13:27
Speaker
okay the the kind of work that I believe in and that I named the show after is treating film as like a historical document the way that you might, you know, a political treatise or a treaty or, you know, any sort of relic from the past, but using, for an example, everybody knows Titanic.
01:13:50
Speaker
What does Titanic tell us about 1912? What does it tell us about 1997? Yeah.
01:13:55
Speaker
And then sort of using that to tell 1997 thought of 1912. Exactly. Yes. Yes. So, and then getting to do that, like I said, rather than having to, you know, read scrolls or do anything, you know, like I get to watch a bunch of, you know, cheesy movies.
01:14:15
Speaker
Well, we could certainly appreciate that. Yeah. Did you guys have any questions? I picked the right place. Yeah, I do. I do actually have a question. So you mentioned like there's always a woman in trouble in one of these. That's a trope. I'm curious what some of the other standard tropes are for this ah genre of film.
01:14:31
Speaker
So this is something that I'm kind of doing. I built a big spreadsheet just to keep track of all the films. And now I'm going through and sort of watching them and trying to like tag, you know, metadata tags. Yeah, this is the stuff. I love this with vampire films. Like this is the thing that I'm like, really like this always. It's like, so what are we doing every time we're doing this? How does everyone do this slightly differently? Someone's like, ah we got to get in the pregnancy, you know?
01:14:58
Speaker
So i would say for this first period, ah this first phase, which is like 1954, 1955 to 57, 58, like I said, delinquency is sort of gender coded.
01:15:14
Speaker
And for the guys, they're always unemployed or underemployed. And that sort of... yes if it's about girls reproduction in a physical sense for guys, it's often their ability to social, to reproduce social, like socially and economically. Okay. And so there is like, there's always this like, I don't want to work. i shouldn't have to work.
01:15:43
Speaker
Um, The other interesting thing is these films are not explicitly political for the most part. There are very few instances where politics is addressed and it's often through like the beatnik, which is someone that I'm interested in, but I have not really done a lot of writing or reading about yet. The beatnik is sort of like this proto hippie for the extremely elderly among us, like the Maynard G. Krebs sort of archetype.
01:16:19
Speaker
Those that watch Dobie Gillis on Night and Night remember Maynard G. Krebs? Yeah. I knew I came to the right place. And so, like, there's a movie, High School Confidential, which is another really good one, which is on my channel. You can go watch it once you're done listening to this. So you do get a couple of scenes of politics through the beatnik, but that these films themselves are sort of like political documents of the period because they define what is healthy by showing us what is sick.
01:16:54
Speaker
So, you know, paraphrase Michel Foucault. And so just sort of looking at these as, well, what does this tell me about what people wanted to uphold in this time?
01:17:05
Speaker
okay What like upsets and off offends them? And I think you really do kind of see like the drug issue.
01:17:16
Speaker
another interesting thing that I haven't really written about, but, um, we had an episode of my show on Dragnet, uh, And so Dragnet was super popular during this period. Right. And you see in that a lot of the professionalization and formalization of policing.
01:17:37
Speaker
And so and watch the police in these films and sort of think about like all of these people are doing their best Joe Friday impression. Yeah. you sort of see like how they're being informed by this mediated version of policing that was very popular at the time.
01:17:58
Speaker
Okay. Thank you. Well, if it's all right with you guys, I think we need to move on to our game. Yeah. Sure. All right. Let's hit it.
01:18:24
Speaker
And I said, hey, hey, hey,
01:19:06
Speaker
That's right. We're doing a little when's going on with the filmography of Eve Brent, a.k.a. Jean Ann Lewis, who played Joy. She had a surprisingly long career. She worked from 1955 2011. I believe has over credits on her holy shit So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you a title and a description of the film. I want each of you to tell me the year you think it came out.
01:19:35
Speaker
You get it within five years on either direction. You get one point. If you get it within one year. oh Keep going. Keep going. Within one year, you'll get two points. And if you get it right on the button, you get three points. And from 1955 2011. Thank you. Everybody feeling ready? Mm-hmm.
01:19:52
Speaker
thank you everybody feeling ready All right. Question number one. Death Row Game Show. a game show features Death Row convicts competing in life or death contests for a chance to cheat the executioner. But now someone one wants to take revenge on the host.
01:20:15
Speaker
When did Death Row Game Show come out? ross Ross. 76. 76. All right. Good guess. Greg, what do you think? was to say 73. 73.
01:20:25
Speaker
73. Okay, very interesting. Anna, what do you think? I also think this has big 70s vibes, so I will split. I will go 75.
01:20:35
Speaker
wow No one gets the point. That was 1987. Wow. Okay, not buzzing in for this one? Because I practiced. I mean, you certainly can. But this is one where everybody gets to guess. But okay whoever everyone wants to guess first can certainly buzz in. I will say I appreciate that you practiced.
01:20:55
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i'm hyper competitive. Like, that's the thing. it that Oh, wow. You've come to the wrong. listen Yeah, I was going to say, I have no competitive bone in my body. So go crazy. Yeah.
01:21:07
Speaker
yeah Yeah. You can run wild on this game. Question number two. Going berserk. A clumsy chauffeur is hypnotized by a cult to kill the father of his fiance, a congressman who's suing the cult for fraud.
01:21:29
Speaker
i like this. When do you think that one came in? I'm going to say 1956.
01:21:36
Speaker
Okay, very interesting guess. Adam, what do you think? 1992. Okay, how about you, Ross? This sounds like, you know, you'd go to Blockbuster and they'd have, like, the new releases and then they'd have, like, the knockoffs of the new releases. Yeah. I feel like this would have come out, like, right around Manchurian Candidate.
01:21:59
Speaker
Like it's the Atlantic rim to Manchurian candidate. So I'm going say 67. Okay. All wrong again. 1983. That clumsy chauffeur was of course, John Candy.
Movie Release Year Game
01:22:17
Speaker
How about that? Okay. It's all right. Plenty of game left to play. Question number three, SLIP. A couple gets intimate in the privacy of their home, but a neighbor's daughter accidentally witnesses, leading to a court trial on sexual liberty in private.
01:22:40
Speaker
What do you think SLIP came out? 67. Okay. Okay. i was going to 63.
01:22:51
Speaker
All right. Ross. What's the range? We got to get it within five years. Within five years, you'll get one point. Okay, I'm going to go 70.
01:23:04
Speaker
Ross, you get three big points. Wow. Right on the dot. Greg, you get one point. Okay. So, don't worry, my love.
01:23:17
Speaker
That's fine. Question number four.
01:23:21
Speaker
Question number four. The sad horse. Okay. Ooh, I like that. I like that a lot. Great. I'm sorry. It's terrible when horses are sad. It's true. They're beautiful animals.
01:23:37
Speaker
A boy faces a rattlesnake, a puma, and a woman who wants his dog to serve as mascot for her racehorse. When did the sad horse come out? 62? 62?
01:23:54
Speaker
sixtywo o Okay. And what do you think? 2001. Nice. I like it. Ross, what do you think?
01:24:05
Speaker
Do we know if these animals talk? I'm going to give you a hint and say no, they do not. Okay.
01:24:17
Speaker
I'm going to say 74. seventy four All right. Greg gets the point. That was 1959. All right.
01:24:29
Speaker
All right. Here's a chance to make up some points for everybody. Saved by the bell Hawaiian style. Okay. Okay. she She was in that one. Kelly's grandfather, Harry invites the gang on for a vacation at the Hawaiian hideaway, his hotel in Honolulu.
01:24:50
Speaker
But they soon discover that a rival is threatening to put him out of business. When did Saved by the Bell Hawaiian style come out? No. 1991. He's going to lose this hotel. Greg? 96. 96 for Anna?
01:25:04
Speaker
going to say 95. All right. That's one point for Anna, one point for Ross, and two points for Greg.
01:25:19
Speaker
right that's one point for anna one point for ross and two points for greg
01:25:28
Speaker
So that ties up Greg and Ross. Anna, you're on the board. Congratulations. What year did it come out? When was it? That 1992. 1992, of course. Okay. 1992. Question number six.
01:25:44
Speaker
Brain waves. Ooh. After a traffic accident, a woman is in a coma for months. Doctors revive her by stimulating her brain with the neural patterns of a woman who just died.
01:25:59
Speaker
But now she's haunted by the memories of the dead woman's murder. Brainwaves.
01:26:09
Speaker
o I'll say... I'm pretty sure that they've worked out that particular glitch by now. probably Probably. Hopefully. Yeah. yeah So it's probably not contemporaneous. I'll say 60.
01:26:25
Speaker
Go ahead, Anna, please. 1988. 88. All right. Greg. I'm torn between 60s and 70s, but I'm going to go. so I'm going to go 63. Okay.
01:26:40
Speaker
okay Okay. Ross, what do you think? Yeah, i was I was leaning towards this being a black and white movie too. mom i mean, it could it could go either way. Because there's like a lot of that science fiction, you know, like the brain that couldn't die sort of stuff. um Or this could be like an 80s, like straight to VHS horror movie, like a right ah you know full moon pictures kind of thing. I'm going to go 60.
01:27:09
Speaker
This was 1982. How about that? Close. arent Very close. Question number seven. The Timber Tramps.
01:27:23
Speaker
Sounds great. A beautiful logging company. Who can say? A beautiful logging company owner is in danger of being muscled out of business by evil sawmill owners.
01:27:37
Speaker
So she calls her ex-lover, Matt the Lumberjack, for help. The Timber Tramps. 1975. Okay. 2000. 2000. Okay. Ross? 2000. okay
01:27:52
Speaker
ah two thousand two thousand okay ross Mom, we have hundreds of beavers at home.
01:28:06
Speaker
Gosh, I mean, I want to say the nineteen twenty s No, that would work with the title for sure. And the plot. evening um I'll go 64.
01:28:19
Speaker
All right. Greg gets a point. That was 1973.
01:28:24
Speaker
Greg taking the lead. Two questions left to play. Question number eight, the white buffalo.
01:28:36
Speaker
A haunted, dying, wild bill Hickok teams up with a grieving crazy horse to hunt down a murderous albino buffalo. Jesus Christ.
01:28:49
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds pretty brutal.
01:28:53
Speaker
but i'm cute I mean, that's post-New Hollywood if I ever heard summary, so I'm going to say 77. Okay. oh okay
01:29:07
Speaker
I'm stuck in the 60s. I'm going to go 63 on this one. All right. I'm thinking the same thing. this This sounds like, you know, this is their Robert Altman knockoff. I'm going to say 75. Okay.
01:29:21
Speaker
All right, that is a point for Ross. No points for Greg. And three big points for Anna. It was 1977. Nice. nice The score is 5-4-5. Wow.
01:29:36
Speaker
wow And it's all come down to question number nine. It's the real barn. Could not have scripted it any better than this. My God, listeners. You must be on the edge of your seat.
01:29:47
Speaker
Hit list. While dating a woman with anger management issues, a hit man finds her journal and uses it as a guide to prove how much he loves her.
01:30:01
Speaker
Hit list.
01:30:06
Speaker
It's a tricky one. Yeah. 1995. 1995 Anna. 77. 77 Greg ninety ninety five for ana
01:30:14
Speaker
seventy seven seventy-seven from gregg ross I feel like twist is going to be this is like 2011 or something. I'm going to say, yeah I'm going to say 2001.
01:30:29
Speaker
You should have listened to your gut, Ross. It was 2011. um We've got a tie between Greg and Ross for the tiebreaker question.
01:30:40
Speaker
Oh, can you tell me?
Batty Awards and Conclusion
01:30:43
Speaker
This will be a buzz in. Who played the clumsy chauffeur in going berserk? Greg.
01:30:51
Speaker
Greg? John Candy.
01:30:55
Speaker
You got it, Greg. that was That was a good hard fight. That was fun. Well, yeah it was fun for me too, and I'm going to have a lot of fun transitioning to the next segment seamlessly.
01:31:11
Speaker
It's the Batty Awards.
01:31:20
Speaker
Now you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards. Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:31:31
Speaker
Now you're messing with the Batty Awards.
01:31:36
Speaker
Congratulations to all the nominees.
01:31:42
Speaker
That's right. Congratulations to all the nominees. It's the Batty Awards. The awards that we give out to celebrate all those little moments that make a bad movie so good.
01:31:55
Speaker
Greg, do you have a bad award? So I do. I don't recall anyone saying the title line, Gun Girls. Did that actually happen? I don't recall it. It's at the end of the title narration.
01:32:10
Speaker
Was it? Okay. So I don't yeah recall that, but I do recall it And I still think this is really interesting. And one of my favorite moments in this movie, they use the title line in a headline,
01:32:22
Speaker
which is also a substitute for a car chase, which is really great. It's like, instead of showing you a car chase, we'll spin up a headline that says gun girls in car chase or like gun girls on the loose. And I was just like, this is hilarious. This is a great, yeah great use of a title line to just drop it in a headline.
01:32:44
Speaker
Fantastic choice. Anna, do you have a baddie of work? Oh, yeah, there's there's a lot of ah funny dialogue in this one, a lot of really, really clunky slang, really clunky hepcat slang. But I want to give it to um ah ah the line that made me laugh the hardest, and it's just because I've never heard this in the singular before, and it's Joe saying at one point, wait till that joy stops around.
01:33:16
Speaker
I'll tell her a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Just the one. Just one. Just one just just one thing. just going to tell her the thing.
01:33:28
Speaker
Well, I'm going to give my Batty Award to a delightful bit of synchronicity or ah kismet, whatever forces aligned as this ah film made its journey from film stock to a digitally encoded file.
01:33:48
Speaker
At some point in the encoding process, there was one shot of of a chain link fence being pulled across the driveway. And the encoding could not handle the resolution of this chain link fence being moved across the screen. And it was just, it became this sort of hypnotic swirl for just a moment. It was so painterly and like,
01:34:13
Speaker
You could never have seen it in any other situation. Only if you were, you know, ah digitizing a an old film at this low resolution with this sort of ah specific technological limitations. it it I loved it.
01:34:31
Speaker
Ross, do you have a batty one? It really speaks to the cinematography when you're like, my favorite part of the movie was when it said buffering. Yeah.
01:34:41
Speaker
uh so i want to celebrate the whoever decided to do the adr there's like three or four times in the film where you can just tell that the audio is dubbed over uh very poorly and then my one of my favorites because i said this troop of actors you see across a lot of films uh harry keaton who played luke uh he's not in this one a lot um But he's always... he's always like I don't want to say comic relief because he's not funny.
01:35:12
Speaker
yeah But like he almost always plays like some sort of irascible drunk. But like yeah in this one, he's a drunk who doesn't want to drink too much. like He gets just trying to pour him a drink. yeah He's almost the voice of reason in this movie. Yeah, which is hilarious.
01:35:33
Speaker
But like, you know, like he gets Joe to pour him a drink and then says like immediately, no, no, not too much. And it's like, okay. yeah yeah Takes all types, I suppose. Ross, thank you so much for coming out this week. Thank you for picking such a fun movie. yeah Thank you guys so much. I'm so honored to...
01:35:52
Speaker
you know, share this project with you guys and talk. I mean, I knew I had to pick a real doozy for y'all. Mission accomplished. You did a good job. Yes. Thank you.
01:36:05
Speaker
Well, remind people where to track you down. So wherever you're listening to this, you can look for the History on Film podcast. It usually comes out on Mondays, although we're probably taking a little bit of a break.
01:36:17
Speaker
But if you're listening to this and you haven't listened to it before, you've got a ton of episodes to listen to anyway. So what do you care if it's not coming? If I'm not doing new ones for a little while.
01:36:27
Speaker
um But check it out. It's... I mean, that's really all I've got going on. Otherwise I've got so much writing that I'm doing. ah you know, that's, that's ah the history on film podcast and it's free to add free. And i don't know it's public history in action.
01:36:44
Speaker
well,
01:36:47
Speaker
Listeners, check it out. I've checked out a couple episodes. I thought that they were very fun and very entertaining and very interesting. i strongly recommend it. Thank you. Oh, and the JD Media Archive, if you want to watch Gun Girls, which we talked about today, or a ton of other really lousy films and some good ones. Yeah, nice.
01:37:08
Speaker
Check it out. Listeners, come back next week. ah Oh, I'm so sorry. I keep interrupting. I'm going to recommend something for you guys. that Do a your favorite bad movie podcast exclusive.
01:37:21
Speaker
So we talked about these teenage movies, most of which were made by a production company called American International Pictures AIP. So I'm going to share with you all something really cool.
01:37:33
Speaker
So Showtime, the cable channel, in 1994 had a series, like a 10-run TV movie series called...
01:37:45
Speaker
I'm blanking on the name right now. But basically they got contemporary directors like Joe Dante and I think maybe Robert Rodriguez or somebody else. They got these contemporary actors to remake their favorite AIP movies of the 50s. And they are so good. They've got like – one of my favorites is Runaway Daughters.
01:38:08
Speaker
And so that's the Joe Dante one. And it's got Julie Bowen. It's got Paul Rudd. And it's just like these great, you know, made for cable, like, you know, above your average made for TV movie quality film. But they're so much fun. And it's all of the kind of movies that we're watching.
01:38:28
Speaker
reimagined and recontextualized in the nineties with some really great talent. I mean mean, in every single one, you'll be like, wow, how did I ever know that they did this?
01:38:40
Speaker
So I can share the link for that. Cause I tried to share them on my YouTube, ah but the copyright hammer struck it down, but they're on the internet archive. okay So you're able to watch them all for free. So nice. All right.
01:38:54
Speaker
Well, we'll put that in the show notes. Listeners, come back next week. We're going to be talking about Troy with returning guest Alan Ebenhoe. Wolfgang Peterson's Troy.
01:39:05
Speaker
Three hours. Oh, boy. Wish me luck in terms of summarizing plot. You can snooze. all i can I can carry this one. Okay. though We'll see. We'll talk about that. We'll see.
01:39:19
Speaker
ah Tune in. See what we figure out. And ah find us on ah Blue Sky. can find us on Instagram. All our stuff. Just check out the link tree in the show notes. Don't forget to leave us five stars.
01:39:31
Speaker
Don't forget to follow and subscribe. And ah don't forget, until next week, be good and go bye. Goodbye.