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Conversation: Mike Duquette discusses 'cataloging' Squeeze
316 Plays2 years ago
It’s a rare occurrence that by skimming a website after prompting a search for something written about Squeeze, you find an article from 10 years ago that stops you in your tracks.
Mike Duquette, founder of The Second Disc, discovered his love for Squeeze extended into that somewhat curious category of ‘back catalog.’
As we discover in this episode, Mike’s passion for the written word stood out after hitting a chord with me: his article on various incarnations of Squeeze compendiums and their worth for people seeking out the best way to appreciate them from a compilation standpoint is a gem - and insightful.
The site’s motto “if it’s reissued, remastered or expanded, you’ll find it here” pretty much says it all. And with Mike’s knowledge of this genre, we had a remarkable and varied conversation on what that means for a band like Squeeze, as well as some revelatory proclamations that can put a vital spin on where they should be heard in today’s challenging music environment.
You can find Mike and his editor Joe Marchese at:
--- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/appRecommended
Transcript
Introduction to Mike Duquette and The Second Disc
00:00:06
Speaker
and welcome to Cool for Cats with me and you. We're inviting you in for black coffee and a chat about our favorite band Squeeze. In this episode, I'm welcoming Mike Duquette, founder of the Second Disc. His passion for reissue labels and back catalogs can be found on the seconddisc.com website, as well as several need to know articles published since 2010.
Why is Squeeze an Eclectic Topic?
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello, Mike. How are you? I'm doing well, Amy. Thank you for having me on. You are among the very few who tackles, let's just say a pretty eclectic topic. Yeah. I mean, the podcast in and of itself is a very eclectic topic. I got very excited when I found out that somebody was doing a podcast about squeeze.
00:01:00
Speaker
Because, you know, I think, you know, we're both Americans. And so I think when you find squeeze fans in America, it's like, you know, it's like, it's like a moth seeing a lantern. It's like, let me go over there. Yeah, nobody says no. You say squeeze.
00:01:19
Speaker
to the people that are familiar and they're like, yes, you know, that means I'm going to have to talk to, you know, squeeze. And I think also for me, because I am slightly younger than the average squeeze fan, I am.
Founding The Second Disc and Passion for Reissues
00:01:33
Speaker
35. Um, so I, you know, did not, I did, I did not count, you know, seeing the hourglass video on MTV. I was too busy, you know, being born and gaining basic developmental skills.
00:01:51
Speaker
That's quite all right. I saw them so I can fill in the blanks. Very good, very good. On a general note, let me ask you for our listeners exactly what you do with regards to the second this.
00:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, so the second disc I founded just after I graduated college in 2010, I was a journalism student. And I was really interested in, I'd always loved back catalog music, you know, the ideas of reissues, box sets, compilations, things like that for older artists, the idea that you could go into a Barnes and Noble
00:02:33
Speaker
with, you know, $30 or $40 of allowance that you'd saved up over some time. And it's like, well, I could buy, I could buy the CD of, let's say, What's Going On by Marvin Gaye, could buy that for $10, $12, or I could pay like $25, $30 and I can get this two CD set that's got a different mix of the album, a live show, some outtakes and things. I was always really interested in that. And, um,
Career at Sony and Grammy-Winning Work
00:03:00
Speaker
Typically, I think in modern journalism, it's actually around this time, your November, December, the gift guide season. You know, that's when all the big box sets come out. We just had the, you know, the Beatles just put out the revolver box set. There's always, you know, the end of the year is always the time that these big sets come out and, you know, hopefully get people to park with their money to hear these records in a new way. But I was always interested, well, what about the other 10 months of the year?
00:03:28
Speaker
And I gradually would find out that there was a lot of labels that would license catalog and usually it was, you know, not your Led Zeppelin or your Beatles or your, you know, A-list stars. So I just, I just followed that.
00:03:49
Speaker
with an unbridled passion. And it really was an excuse to try to build a sort of a demo reel for myself. I ended up working for close to 10 years within catalog labels.
00:04:05
Speaker
Mostly doing editorial, most notably. I worked for Sony's Legacy Recordings for about eight years and did some really cool projects. The thing I'm probably most proud of is probably my calling card. I worked on a box set for Weird Al Yankovic, who is having a real moment now.
00:04:26
Speaker
So you had a precog right there. I guess I did, yeah. It was a big career spanning box that we did that our wonderful designers had come up with the idea of what if we put it in an interesting package and so we basically
00:04:46
Speaker
They 3D printed a replica of his accordion with all the records in each of the bellows of the accordion, and they deservedly won a Grammy for their efforts.
00:04:57
Speaker
And my responsibility was mostly in the editorial curation of it. I worked with Sony Archive and Al's drummer and archivist in sourcing photos that nobody had ever seen and sort of building a cohesive story within the book that came with the
00:05:17
Speaker
I often joke that I had the only job in the world where it mattered to know what a picture of Alan 1984 versus a picture of Alan 1992, that that was actually a monetizable skill. So for all the people out there who wonder if they can have a job that's truly unusual, I'm here to tell you that you can. You're living the life as far as I'm concerned.
00:05:45
Speaker
because everybody, not a lot of people can talk about Al, you know, in those terms. Sure. And yeah, and I've had the privilege since of, you know, I've sort of transitioned into some more freelance stuff I've done. I just did my first liner notes this year, which is the culmination of a
00:06:05
Speaker
multi-year dream of wanting to put my words in an actual package and have my name on them. So that was Mondo Records, which is a soundtrack label. They're doing a double LP
00:06:21
Speaker
reissue of the soundtrack John Williams scored to E.T. the extraterrestrial, which is my favorite movie. So to have the opportunity to write about my favorite music for my favorite movie, it's obviously all downhill from here, with the exception, of course, of talking about Squeeze.
00:06:37
Speaker
Well, thank you for putting us in that position. Yes, of course. So I would say that based on your 80s love in music and culture, Squeeze looks like a great fit for your personality.
Journey into Squeeze's Music
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think I, you know, I try to think of where it came from. I know the first, like so many Americans, the first squeeze record I owned was the singles 45s and under. There was a period in my life, probably around the time I graduated college, where I really made it a point to go
00:07:15
Speaker
And try to find something interesting within They don't really do them anymore But if you'd go to a supermarket and there'd be you know Like what kind of wholesale CDs in kind of a bin now, it's mostly DVDs and blu-rays And I would always try to make it a point to find something interesting and I think at that point Universal had had repackaged it as part of their
00:07:39
Speaker
20th century master's series millennium collection that they were doing around the turn of the millennium, which were usually very sort of mid-priced compilations. So they just took the entirety of the contents of Singles 45s and Under and
00:07:55
Speaker
repackaged it in that way. I think it was some sort of eco-friendly package, and it felt like having a carton of eggs almost with a piece of cardboard on it. And of course, I had known from various compilations, I had known the songs that most Americans squeeze, you know,
00:08:14
Speaker
burgeoning squeeze fanatics. No, I knew tempted. I knew black coffee in bed. I knew pulling muscles from the shell, you know, from being, you know, recurrent radio songs on your 80s blocks and what have you. But it was really, you know, getting into their song craft. And I think it was by the time
00:08:37
Speaker
you know, I was listening to the CD, I think by the time I got to Up the Junction, I was like, this is, you always, I think you, I always have moments with bands that I love where I, when I hear this, like I know maybe four or five songs and I hear a song that like maybe is not as well known. And I think, oh, this is a band that's gonna stick with me forever. And that was Up the Junction without question. And, you know, and of course around that time,
00:09:04
Speaker
This is the late 2000s. It was actually kind of a good time to be a Squeeze fan. They had recently reunited and they were touring.
What Makes Squeeze's Songwriting Timeless?
00:09:13
Speaker
I think I had seen them in, I live in New Jersey, New York. So I think I first saw them at Radio City Music Hall, which was really exciting to see them in such a venue. I was lucky to see Glenn a couple of times. There was a great venue, unfortunately, that's no longer with us in Hoboken, New Jersey called Maxwell's. I saw him
00:09:32
Speaker
play there. And it was like, you know, it was it felt like there was like, maybe 50 people and not because only 50 people showed up because it was such a small room. Like he came, he kind of emerged from the crowd. And I was like, that is nuts. I didn't even know he was here. I figured he was just in the backstage area. And, you know, I remember I got to, he signed my copy of Difford and Tilbrook after that, and I got a picture with them. And
00:09:58
Speaker
You know, the biggest 22 year old nerd smiling happily next to someone who I think we can both agree is a songwriting genius. Absolutely. There's no argument on my end.
00:10:15
Speaker
And it's interesting that you remark about your age, even back then, because way on this, the compilation, greatest hits, the collections seem to do really well for Squeeze. And we had a small chat about that.
00:10:38
Speaker
in still their biggest, uh, bestselling, uh, CD slash final is singles. So I'm in, and that was only a four year span back when the band first started, essentially. So I'm still striking.
00:10:55
Speaker
Yeah, what is that? Despite the fact that we could talk about five or six different versions of the collections of songs and hits and besides, what is it about this? People say, okay, it's your stepping stone into Squeeze.
Squeeze's Storytelling and Working-Class Lyrics
00:11:15
Speaker
People seem to have it everywhere.
00:11:18
Speaker
But weigh in on why you think this singles hits a chord with everybody. Well, I think it's probably, and this is not to disparage the other the other eras that came after it, which, you know, I like everything. There is not a there's not a squeeze record that I'm like, I don't know about that one.
00:11:43
Speaker
I think to your point, and I think of another great act that was also in A&M Records, The Police, another band that I adore. When you think of, for Squeeze, for these songs to come so quickly and so intensely,
00:12:06
Speaker
And they really just, they really, they really did strike a chord with people. And, you know, there was obviously the comparison at the time, you know, the idea that, that, that we now have a new Lennon and McCartney, which on the face of it is kind of.
00:12:22
Speaker
is like, wait, what? But then you listen to these songs and these, you know, and of course, the the song craft is a little different, but the the the the keen melody is there. But there's also this undercurrent of storytelling that you get with Chris's lyrics, that is truly unmatched. And I think back to, you know, as I delved further into the catalog, and
00:12:49
Speaker
song like like separate beds from rg-bargy like thinking about you know the storytelling of that of of you know meeting uh meeting uh lovers parents for the first time and and all the emotions that come with that and it was just like this is just great slice of life and i think you know i not to cast dispersions but i think as a sensitive male figure myself you know myself i there was something
00:13:18
Speaker
I really liked their style. And I don't mean like sartorially, although I think in the 70s, they looked great. But there was a point, you know, like sort of the way that they saw the world and reported on the world, you know, which was very, you know, it was very working class.
00:13:38
Speaker
And there were all these expectations that came with it, but there was a, maybe not capital R romanticism, but there was this aspect of freedom and fun and hanging around the pub and all that stuff. And again, being 22, 23, especially at a time when
00:14:01
Speaker
You know, this was the late 2000s. The economy was not doing great. You know, a lot of people, myself included, worked a lot of, you know, kind of menial jobs to try to make ends meet while sort of pursuing the next thing and really relying on that sense of community.
Evolution of Squeeze's Songwriting
00:14:18
Speaker
That that you that you built and I think there's something there's something to be said about the squeeze songbook that really captures that moment and you know, even now that I'm much older and married and you know, not that I had a lot of wild oats to sell but but I had a you know, I look at those very fondly and I also think that there's
00:14:39
Speaker
especially once you get past singles 45 and under, that they as songwriters grow with their experiences. And so what you take from their songs grows as well. So it really is, it's a, you know, there's layers upon layers to enjoy with the squeeze.
00:14:57
Speaker
with the Squeeze Songbook. And I think that obviously, I think that the reason that Singles 45 is in Under is like the perfect entry point is not only that melodicism, but I think that sort of that burst of youthful energy, but with a maturity to it as well, if that makes any sense.
00:15:14
Speaker
It does, because we still talk about that, and that was 40 plus years ago, and people still associate that kind of sound, and I understand they would be missing out on the later years, which I believe the compilations that have been coming out
00:15:36
Speaker
are healthy. And I know that there's this, and I don't know if you buy into it, that mythology of, well, you know, all the songs you ever want to listen to in your life are done at 35. So you, sir, are right there on the edge. But any aside from that,
00:15:59
Speaker
it is interesting that the compilations do sort of progress along during the years. And you had a really good synopsis of all of this like 10 years ago, which is how I first kind of signed that event. Hey, this guy's talking about other stuff besides singles. But having said that,
00:16:22
Speaker
Here's one other thing that you can weigh in on. Right before the new song, the new EP, was just released. If you typed in Squeeze in Apple iTunes, the first thing that comes up is the Squeeze 80's classics.
Squeeze's Enduring Appeal in the Digital Age
00:16:39
Speaker
And it just shows you, I mean, it just shows you where today's marketing lives with this ban. I'm not sure why. I don't know if it's, you know, we go cycles and people really get into the whole 80s, you know, kind of, you know, situations and mindset, but
00:17:03
Speaker
If we leave Singles alone in its own chorale and you start to get out more, you start to open the door more for other compilations, your article was quite insightful because it seems like the Americans don't get enough.
00:17:21
Speaker
of understanding they just want to hang on to the quick stuff you know everybody will say tempted black coffee possibly goodbye girl possibly up the junction and then we're kind of stuck do you know what i mean but of course i'm one of the people and it's funny because it's you know you're talking about them as sort of an 80s band quote unquote the the irony of that is because the songs that you're just that that you mentioned are all
00:17:51
Speaker
In my opinion, they're all timeless. They don't sound like...
00:17:55
Speaker
80s songs. There of course is one song in the catalog that is, I don't know if it's a big hit, like it's, I don't know if it does streaming numbers now, but I think of a song like Hourglass, which I love. And I, you know, if I hear that, like on a radio in like a CVS or a diner or something, I go nuts. Like people, you know, I gotta like stop the conversation. I'm like, wait a second. Hourglass is playing on the radio.
00:18:22
Speaker
Breaking news for all of you who didn't know this, and I know Mike does. Hourglass was their highest charting song, past tempted. Way past tempted.
00:18:35
Speaker
way, yes, way past. Now, of course, the video was kind of, you know, weird and, but cute. And, and. Right. And that's of course, what, what probably cause MTV was still relevant and it was, it wasn't, it wasn't relevant in 81. It was just getting its legs and squeeze just happened to deliver those product to a starving channel. That was right. Showing music videos.
00:19:02
Speaker
So Hourglass, people love it. Their biggest song. Hello, everybody out there. Biggest song. Yes. Who would have thought? Of course, but of course, now with streaming, like, you know, it's interesting. I mean, I think this year we've seen a really interesting story in catalog marketing of
00:19:25
Speaker
Kate Bush is running up that hill being in Stranger Things and making it into the top five of the Billboard Hot 100, which is something that would have been unheard of at the time. I dare think that the chronology of Stranger Things is such that the series will eventually be getting into 1987, so maybe this is the prime time to
00:19:54
Speaker
to get a sync license for some sort of spooky version of Hourglass. It could be.
00:20:02
Speaker
That would be just monumental. But let me, we're gonna fast forward just a little bit. The interesting reason in regards to song permissions and royalties and et cetera, et cetera, was the fact that the band made Spot the Difference.
Why Re-record Hits for 'Spot the Difference'?
00:20:27
Speaker
And that was 2010. And I know you know the background, but why don't you kind of explain
00:20:32
Speaker
Exactly why that had to happen. Yeah. So there was, you know, I was, I was compiling some notes before I, before I came here. And the thing I wonder.
00:20:45
Speaker
which I don't think the band is never, I think they'd be diplomatic enough not to say it. But I get the sense that there might be some sort of a stalemate between the band and Universal Music Group who have, you know, controlled the squeeze catalog for, you know, when it was Polygram and then, you know,
00:21:05
Speaker
Universal music took over. And, you know, I think for most acts, there is, you know, obviously when you license a song and tempted, of course, songs like tempted have been licensed so many times in commercials and, you know, TV spots and things like that.
00:21:26
Speaker
There is a, you know, you get a fee, but if you are licensing a recording that you yourself own, as is the case with Spot the Difference, which the band, you know, through their own label and their own
00:21:42
Speaker
uh company they own that as opposed to universal they are getting a higher share of of profit for that so i think the idea with spot the difference was to very carefully re-record all those songs so if somebody wants to hear tempted on a radio in a show that's set in 1983 you'd have that version that that they could license probably for less than
00:22:09
Speaker
they could from Universal, and the band would benefit not only just as well, they would benefit a little bit more. Now, you know, you can debate the challenge of Spot the Difference. Again, a song like Hourglass, which is on there.
00:22:25
Speaker
You know, that was a record that was like, you know, made it the hit factory in New York City. You know, they got a lot of money for to make that record. It was very glossy sounding and as solid as the band is, I think trying to replicate the exact cadences and and, you know, synth patches and things is probably difficult to do in a studio of your own ownership. But, you know, I think they acquitted themselves well.
00:22:53
Speaker
and but but that you know spot the difference is sort of uh the lynch pin in my argument of you know what exactly is going on with the squeeze catalog today like what like what could go on with it uh and and and why isn't it going on which is you know again that's like my ted talk that i'm pointing on laying out here
00:23:19
Speaker
Let me ask you, because I don't know too much about legalities of this situation, except from what's going on with Taylor Swift and her recordings, which is pretty much the same thing. So squeeze, you know, set the bar. But anyway, do
00:23:39
Speaker
I'm trying to think, do different until Brooke had much of a say, or did they, when these compilations started to come out, like excess moderation, six of one, big squeeze, that's, are they consulted, or it doesn't matter, because Universal, kind of like Capitol Records in the old days of the Beatles, didn't really have to get permission,
00:24:05
Speaker
Nowadays, of course, Apple is just, you know, cracking the whip on rights and licensing and stuff. So, so I guess my question is, did those compilations in the 90s and early odds, so to speak, have to get clearance or did it didn't matter because the masters were owned by Universal? The thing I think about the Cadillac business is that nothing, you know,
00:24:32
Speaker
No one is uninformed. It's just it's how much you want you how much there to be involved I know with certain like I know there's certain like even licensing like if you're licensing from a third party, you know, like a Universal or a Warner or Sony in certain cases there they now have very clear like contract language that this cannot proceed and
00:24:56
Speaker
until everybody who's involved has signed off on it. You know, of course, in some cases, these things will go through lawyers, you know, and so it'll just be a very simple like, you know, sign this, sign this paper here. In the case of something like excess moderation, which to me is really the that and the Piccadilly collection, which came out that same year are really the big bang in terms of squeeze in the modern CD era.
00:25:23
Speaker
of, you know, all the records at that point had been released on CD. I think it was different, and Tilbrook was the first one to get a CD release at the same time as would get a vinyl or tape release. And by the time Babylon on and on came out, I think the other four or five records had all been released on CD. And so they were coming out at a pretty consistent clip. But with excess moderation in Piccadilly Collection,
00:25:48
Speaker
I can't speak particularly question because that is a it's a weird compilation. There's like some B sides on it. There's it's like the sequencing is very unusual, but excess moderation, which was a, you know, a double CD set meant to focus on the lesser known side of the squeeze catalog with your album cuts, your B sides, a couple of unreleased, you know, couple unreleased things that I know that I believe Chris and Glenn, not only did they give the consent for
00:26:19
Speaker
They, I believe, also contributed track-by-track commentary. So that was – that's an example of we're not just letting our lawyers sign off on this. We're actually going to have an act of hand in this, and I think everything –
00:26:35
Speaker
Subsequent, mostly the big ones, six of one being, you know, a prominent case where all the first six records were remastered, each of them had two bonus tracks, which were mostly unreleased. That was, I think, a conscious decision on the part of the band, which of course proved ironic because within a year the band was defunct. And so that's why I don't think you really saw anything.
00:26:57
Speaker
outside of I think the big squeeze compilation from 2002, which by this point, you know, Chris and Glenn had pretty, you know, interesting solo careers. They were, you know, Glenn was riding around in an RV across America. And so it was, I think, a good way to get people into the, you know, in two CDs, get them into the
00:27:19
Speaker
the tank so to speak as okay this is what this band is like and so it would appeal to the you know to the new fans who maybe had a little bit of extra money to spend but it would also appeal to the people who had all these records but they didn't maybe have um you know squabs on 40 fab on cd or uh you know other b-sides and other ephemera
00:27:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, because when you do that, you give the incentive to people to buy the same material they've had again, but you get this extra stuff in quotes.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah, and that's of course the debate that's raged for probably the 35 years that what we consider, what I would consider modern catalog marketing, which comes somewhere between the release of Bob Dylan's Biograph and Eric Clapton's Crossroads as sort of the, those were the first to me real box sets of let's tell a story.
00:28:22
Speaker
And unfortunately, we were never lucky enough to get a similar set for Squeeze that would be four CDs or so, however many CDs that would explain the story in a much more in-depth telling that would be your hits, your album cuts, your unreleased things.
00:28:38
Speaker
Um, and I would also like to apologize to the squeeze community because as someone who did work on that weird out box set called squeeze box, I unfortunately robbed the band squeeze of the perfect title for such a box set.
00:28:53
Speaker
But also paying homage, that's okay. I mean, we all understand we are Squeeze fans and you know, what's hard with this whole thing is that it feels like a deluge, you know, of package material.
00:29:11
Speaker
Like, do we need this again? Do we need this again? Right. And I think, you know, and so the last time that anything was really seriously, you know, once the band reunited, there was a new compilation bought into the world, the Essential Squeeze compilation. And they very canily decided, okay, we're going to start a real comprehensive reissue campaign.
00:29:33
Speaker
with these albums and they they picked four and that was i think to me where the the problem started which is you pick two records that i think are really like solidly known among the hardcore fan base you have rg bargy which was expanded with a bunch of b-sides and bonus tracks as well as a live show which is a
00:29:54
Speaker
If you haven't listened to it, you gotta listen to it. I'm sure if you listen to this podcast, you've already heard this show, but it's a cracker of a show. And then you had Sweets from a Stranger, which had a very solid recurrent song and black coffee in bed. But then you also had, while they are two really good records, you had Frank,
00:30:16
Speaker
which is sort of famous for being consistently out of print because I don't think that many people wanted to buy it, unfortunately. And a record like Ridiculous, which, you know, again, solid record, but like not, you know, if you're starting the Squeeze Reissue campaign, you would probably think to do it from the top. You know, you would do at least Cool for Cats and East Side Story. You know, How We Never Got It, the localization of East Side Story is really beyond my comprehension.
00:30:45
Speaker
And then maybe, you know, I think about like, I mean, I think of the Elvis Costello catalog when, when Rhino was reissuing those in the early 2000s and they weren't going chronological, but they were, you know, they did start with like, my aim is true. You know, the, the idea, if it were me, and I don't, you know, I can't profess to know what Universal did.
00:31:08
Speaker
at the time, but if it were me, I would have probably said, okay, well, we'll do RG Barge, but we'll also do Cool for Cats, and we'll do East Side Story, and maybe we'll do, I don't know, Babylon, maybe, and then maybe, and then from there, we'll go, you know, into like, you know, Sweets of a Stranger, maybe some fantastic place, start big, I guess, and, you know, and, um,
00:31:36
Speaker
you know, for whatever reason, you know, we have these four albums that got really great presentations on CD with great liner notes and package design and all the, the, you know, rare and uncompiled material you could want to hear and then the other
00:31:54
Speaker
half dozen plus records, we have not gotten those. And we may never get those, just because that is unfortunately how, you know, I don't know that Universal is going to want to do it. You know, maybe a label would want to license those records. But of course, you know, Universal would have to say yes. And I think anybody involved would probably have to say, you know, as a courtesy, they would probably ask,
00:32:22
Speaker
different until break. Hey, can you can you sign off on this?
00:32:29
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speculations on Reissues and Personal Curation
00:33:07
Speaker
Wouldn't that be the best of both worlds that you have? Like what McCartney is doing with gathering everything into one place or issuing these archive series, you know, legacy is what I'm trying to say. Don't you think that would benefit that if Universal, like let's face it, there are no penny pinching or anything like that or bean counting going over there about, hmm, I mean, maybe there is, you know, about, should we?
00:33:35
Speaker
Should we try that again with Squeeze or should they go with somebody? A smaller label that specializes in the care and comfort that goes into a reissue and really do a nice job, especially like you said, where you delve deep and get personal with the subject matter.
00:33:58
Speaker
rather than, OK, yeah, let's go here. And oh, yeah, they got those two songs. So let's throw those in and this live session. And it becomes like every other deluxe edition. It doesn't really get that special treatment. Do you do you feel like that? Do you think there are labels or people that can that can help? I mean, besides, you know, yourself.
00:34:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I mean, well, you know, the second disk, we are very privileged to work with
00:34:32
Speaker
a label called Real Gun Music and we have done some really great titles from across the gamut of popular music things. You know, Joe Marchese, my writing partner who is sort of the full-time editor of the site and is sort of the driving force behind those. He's done everything from Johnny Mathis to The Supremes. The one I'm really excited about that came out this year was the
00:35:00
Speaker
the record, the material by a duo known at the time as Stoney and Meatloaf. And Meatloaf was that Meatloaf, the one we all know from Bad Out of Hell. And this was some early, long before Bad Out of Hell, some stuff he'd done for a Motown subsidiary. So, you know, our door is open for that. But yeah, there are plenty of labels.
00:35:24
Speaker
That would be able to do you know of course the the vagaries of catalog marketing is such that you know certain
00:35:34
Speaker
There are certain things that are easier to do depending on what territory you're a part of. Now, I unfortunately don't know this for sure, but I don't know if the Squeeze catalog, as owned by Universal Music, if that is something that is taken care of by the UK branch or the US branch.
00:35:55
Speaker
Now there are – because there are just some cases where you'd think it would be one, but it's the other. I can give you – I mean an example in the opposite direction. I know Sony Music had four great records by the artist now known as Sananda Maitreya, who was previously Terrence Trent Darby, who had a big top ten in the 80s with wishing well.
00:36:18
Speaker
was an American artist, but was signed to the UK division of what was, you know, Columbia CBS Records at the time. So all that material is handled by the UK, even though it's an American artist. And I know there are other examples that are the opposite, where I think AHA is a perfect example, where AHA were signed to the US branch of Warner Brothers Records.
00:36:43
Speaker
So there's all these vagaries of that sort of catalog licensing, and I think that certain labels – I think there's certain – maybe certain fees that you have to pay in America, licensing, publishing, things like that, that maybe have a slightly different rate of return outside of the US.
00:37:06
Speaker
And so when you see like, like a cherry red, you know, which has all these great sub labels and put out all these great catalog works, like Howard Jones, you know, artists of that caliber, you see all these great things being put together and you're like, well, why aren't they coming out here in the US? And the answer is just, well, because it's just easier to come out in the UK. And then, you know, you just import it.
00:37:32
Speaker
So I would love to see – I mean I would love to see a UK label go after the Squeeze catalogue. I mean they are a UK. They are a UK act. I would also like to make an argument that this stuff should also be available digitally, and I realize that as a –
00:37:50
Speaker
that is a real war of attrition with people who follow the catalog of stuff that I'm interested in. The idea is, well, it's got to be on CD. I feel that way too, but I will take at this point, whatever I can get.
00:38:06
Speaker
And I've certainly had, I had thoughts that I don't think that those 2007, I could be wrong, but I don't think those 2007 presentations are streamable. I think when you stream those records on Apple Music or Spotify, you might just get the originals. You might get the deluxe of RG Barge because there's that whole other live show.
00:38:27
Speaker
But there's all this stuff, you know, or at least, you know, when these records came out in 97 and had these bonus tracks, those bonus tracks are not available to stream, I don't think. So it's a matter of, you know, really trying to play to as many audiences here. And again, with digital, you don't have to worry about selling 3000, 5000 copies of a thing. You know, you just you have it out there.
00:38:53
Speaker
And I mean, you'd be surprised we try to cover on the second is we try to cover titles that, you know, on Fridays will show up that are digital only. And there are things that, you know, have fallen out of print or whatever. You know, it's like, wow, this is fascinating. Why is this stuff, you know, and it doesn't often get reported on either, which is very unusual. It's like, well, how do how do you ever hope to get people to listen to these lesser known records if you're not, you know, drawing people to them?
00:39:22
Speaker
So they could easily do that with squeeze catalog if they wanted to, or they could do, you know, I don't know, just come. I mean, I've always joked and, you know, original title do not steal, but, uh, I've always joked that, you know, you could do a digital only set of just non LP stuff and call it B side story.
00:39:42
Speaker
That's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. I like to think so. Yes. Yes. Um, I know there's a lot of play on words we could go off course with them. Are you kidding? Yeah, of course. Um, but what's interesting too, is you're, uh, talking about something and I'm thinking things too, where let's kind of go outside the ball, go outside the box a little bit and talk about the EP that they made a physical CD of and are selling it on the cure on the current UK.
00:40:11
Speaker
tour so you can stream it say here in the US or outside the UK but a lot of people here in the US have made a big noise about trying to get people who are seeing them physically at shows literally right now and purchasing now of course the purchase is going to a good cause
00:40:40
Speaker
over there in the uk for the for the trussle truss right however they did this song then they re-recorded two old songs yes and then had three news not new but they were three live tracks so you're getting like uh the best casserole yeah it's a not insubstantial amount of material
00:41:03
Speaker
a nice blend, you're getting new, two new versions of old songs, and then live. I mean, who else? Why, why isn't nobody else doing this? Well, exactly. And it, you know, it's, you know, obviously, I've seen a lot of people
00:41:22
Speaker
myself included have been like, okay, is there any hope of getting this on CD? But I would actually, I would like to go in a different direction.
Squeeze's Charity EP and Bandcamp Benefits
00:41:30
Speaker
And this speaks to something with their ladder catalog that I would, if there are any people who are in any way involved with the squeeze machine, I call on them the material that the band owns, which is very, a very, you know, not the, I think they, I think they own the Domino record. I
00:41:49
Speaker
I don't know what the deal is for the post-reunion records, which I know were distributed by major labels. I think it might have been Virgin EMI that distributed Cradle to the Grave, and I believe it was Warner's Indie Arm ADA, which did The Knowledge, I think. I would call on the band
00:42:15
Speaker
To anything that they own themselves and again spot the difference would be in this category food for thought would be in this category. Put it on band camp as many people probably have discovered in the last almost three years that we've been living post COVID.
00:42:34
Speaker
Bandcamp is a digital service that allows independent minded artists to directly connect to their fans in a much more, I would say, equitable way of consuming music that, you know, when you stream something, you know, if you really look at how much an artist gets from one stream,
00:42:57
Speaker
It is positively psychotic. It is, you know, you couldn't buy a piece of gum 100 years ago with the money that you get from one stream. You couldn't. Oh my God. You, I was just going to say that you couldn't afford to stick a gum with like, and that's, and that's why, uh, there was that backlash last year or this earlier this year about Spotify, you know, all the legacy artists were pulling off.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yes, and it's still going on and I hope it continues and I also shout out the the union of musicians and allied workers, which I am unfortunately not a member of because of the exact work I do does not I don't think allows me to, you know, but it's a it's a cause I support the UMAW that are that have been fighting for a more equitable
00:43:47
Speaker
I think their, their, their ask of Spotify is simply just a penny. Like give us a penny a stream, which, you know, again, you have to think that somebody has to listen to a song 100 times in order to make a dollar. And that is, you know, it's also, it's, it's like, it's like,
00:44:04
Speaker
you know, minimum wage in the US. It's like, you know, $15 an hour is maybe like, it should probably be higher, but that's at least better than what we've got now. But all I say all that to say that with Bandcamp, which, which an artist is putting up their work directly, they get a higher share. And since lockdown of March 2020, for I'd say maybe it was I don't know if it was that March or that April and with pretty much pretty consistently since and it'll be happening again,
00:44:32
Speaker
in about a month. The first Friday of every month is what they call Bandcamp Friday. And what happens is, Bandcamp, the already much smaller cut that they take per song, per album, per sale, they wave that. And that goes entirely
00:44:49
Speaker
to the artist or to the label. There are certain cases of, you know, there are certain artists, Peter Gabriel owns his own material. He has all his stuff on Bandcamp. The label Yep Rock Records, which is where Nick Lowe is, his catalog is signed to their Marshall Crenshaw just did a deal. His catalog is going to be coming to Yep Rock.
00:45:12
Speaker
These are all acts on Bandcamp, so these aren't just independent, you know, these aren't just like up and coming bands. But so you think, to me, the perfect storm of Squeeze are releasing an EP that will raise money for a brilliant cause. If they had an opportunity to put that on Bandcamp,
00:45:33
Speaker
and say, hey, go to band, don't go to Spotify, don't necessarily go to Apple, don't, you know, go to Bandcamp and listen to this, they would be making more money to do, and because they would be making more money off of their streams and downloads, because you could also download off Bandcamp, which is great, or even buy a physical album, if you so desired, that option is also available. So if they had, if they allowed that option,
Bandcamp as an Equitable Platform
00:45:58
Speaker
they would be getting more money, which is good for them normally, but in the case of doing it for a charitable cause, it's even better. So that's my challenge as I call on the Squeeze fan community to see if they can get, the band can get their released material on Bandcamp. I think they have like one or two, maybe, like the Live at the Fillmore record, I think might be on Bandcamp, but
00:46:28
Speaker
But that's really it, and I think that anything that they can get on there, and especially any older artist who has access to your own catalog, that is my wish for you.
00:46:41
Speaker
that would be a very wise move. Although I think a lot of people of my age and a little older don't quite grasp it and understand they still have this perception of it being a place where unsigned bands or solo artists or that sort put their music in addition to SoundCloud.
00:47:11
Speaker
Right. So speaking to me, if you were talking to me, and talking to someone 10 years older than me, and these are the people that are going to the live gigs, I mean, yes, you know, you, you aren't the exception, so to speak, you know, you'll always bring in, be able to bring in people, you know, like the Beatles, you know, kind of, you know, kind of do they do.
00:47:36
Speaker
Right. How would how would you address that that? I don't know if it's a misconception. Like you said earlier, people like Nick
00:47:48
Speaker
are getting on there and Marshall Crenshaw, these are the demographics that would be buying that in real life. It's not a fantasy, if you get what I mean. So how do you balance that? How do you get the word out and make it make sense for somebody like me? It's challenging, I think, and again, because
00:48:15
Speaker
You know, it's not a wholesale unless, you know, the day comes that Squeeze is able to wrest control from Universal and say like, we own our material now.
00:48:27
Speaker
It's very challenging. I don't know what you would do. I can think of things like low-lift digital things that Universal could do to get some of these songs a little bit more off the ground, so to speak, the better-known songs.
00:48:48
Speaker
have not been delivered. I don't believe Hourglass, which is a very visually arresting video, no matter what age you are.
00:48:57
Speaker
I don't know that video is available through an official BAM channel. I don't know that there's one for tempted either. I mean, I know there was a video, but I don't know that that video is able to be called up at the, you know, couple of clicks or taps on your phone.
Challenges of Accessing Squeeze's Music Videos
00:49:20
Speaker
The crazy thing is that a lot of people do go to YouTube and they can see the official videos for UpJunction, Cool for Cats, and it's like they focus right on those two, which again, we're kicking it back 40 plus years.
00:49:36
Speaker
So you're right. How do you bridge those two generations of people who want to consume, they want to hold something physical, but yet there's that YouTube
00:49:52
Speaker
issue to deal with. I guess there's a lot of legalities too, because they can, you know, somebody from universe could just go in and rip something down. If it's not their, you know, if it's not part of their catalog, so to speak. Yeah, I think it's it's legalities. And it's also just manpower, you know, it's just like, again, universal, I mean, universal is the biggest
00:50:14
Speaker
Music label it on the planet and they again they handle artists like Taylor Swift and the weekend and Trying to get other ones, but like just like you know big big big artists And so of course, you know, that's just unfortunately
00:50:38
Speaker
That often happens where it's like we gotta we gotta focus on the big ones. It's it's challenging because it's like, you know, how do you make How do you make this argument?
00:50:49
Speaker
that these guys should at least be, you know, the attention, and I think in the last couple years we've seen, I've seen some great stuff with the police where all their videos were, you know, remastered in high def and redelivered to the YouTube channels. I think they've even made lyric videos, which is, you know, something that young people really like, you know, not just, it's not,
00:51:15
Speaker
not just seeing the video that was on MTV, but seeing the words and done in some sort of artistic way that really gets people's attention. Especially, you know, if you have a video or if you have a big song that was like, you know, didn't have a video, but you just want
00:51:33
Speaker
you want people to really experience it, and not just in a way that's like, you know, an upload where it's like just the album cover, as you, you know, you might often find on on YouTube. Yeah, I think it just it really, it just
00:51:51
Speaker
requires somebody to say this is worth investing the time and the money in and then taking it from there and obviously doing it with the you know with the wishes of the band this is not you know as as cool as it would be for someone at Universal to go absolutely rogue and be like I'm the I'm the squeeze guy now we're gonna get we're gonna fix up the squeeze catalog I don't know that's that that that's
00:52:18
Speaker
a sensible business decision. And so again, it would rely on communicating with Chris and Glenn and management and making sure that it makes sense for the band. And I think back
00:52:34
Speaker
It felt for a minute like we could have been on the precipice of that, which was right before lockdown. And I was very privileged to see, you know, right before lockdown, uh, when the band opened for Hall & Oates at Madison Square Garden, which was nuts.
00:52:51
Speaker
like that's a 20,000 person venue and it was I tell you it was filled for squeeze there weren't people trickling in from the bar you know getting their beers or getting the merch or whatever or like I'll just wait till the hall they'll everybody it to me felt like they were in there as much for all announced as they were
00:53:15
Speaker
for Squeeze, and they sang with all those songs, and it was Walt, I have been to shows that have had more diverse set lists, because of course, again, if you're playing, you're playing Master of the Garden, they're not gonna do who's that, as much as I love them to do that, or they're not gonna do Vanity Fair.
00:53:32
Speaker
But they did the 12 songs that people really know and a couple, I think one or two from the new record that really fit with the vibe of the classic material. And people were going nuts. They were eating it up. They were singing along. And so it felt like there was a moment of like, hey, maybe…
00:53:51
Speaker
You can point to this as an example of, okay, this is maybe a sign that we need to be doing something with this catalog beyond what we call the lean back experience of people just sort of discovering it on their own. I don't know what the silver bullet is there, but I hope that somebody figures it out because my wallet will be open the second.
00:54:18
Speaker
The second it's time to download a new product or to stream something, I'm there.
00:54:25
Speaker
Okay, so what's interesting about what you're saying is we have a two-pronged force going in here, a two-pronged thing going. We have the band together in a really strong, very tight ensemble, playing live, enjoying it. There's no hang-ups, there's no drugs, there's no drinking. Everybody's on, right on point.
00:54:55
Speaker
And part two, from what Glenn has been saying, that their next release, allegedly, will be material that he and Chris have never recorded. So we're talking like prehistoric legacy here. You know, I haven't heard the details, I haven't heard the details, but they sat down, Chris and Glenn,
00:55:22
Speaker
for an interview in the UK right before the UK tour started and it's been it's been Glenn kind of alluding to that fact that they could possibly the band go in and record
00:55:40
Speaker
all this, I don't know, unheard material. So this is like, now this would play into a great thing, you know, they have it, it's theirs, and yet they're a band who can go out and play.
00:55:55
Speaker
and promoted. What do you think? What do you think of that? I think that's, that's great. And I think again, it's all the more reason for all the people who make these business decisions to really consider and you, you, you hit on something that I didn't, I didn't even think of, even though I'd written it down, is that we are coming up on, it's been 50 years since the band formed almost, I think 2024 will be the 50th anniversary. And I think that I don't know, I'm trying to remember
00:56:22
Speaker
Chris and Gwen met in 73 or 74 but we're coming up on the on the 50th anniversary of this partnership in some form that is really significant that feels as significant as a Lennon McCartney or a Jagger Richards or uh you know um it's not something it does look at the you don't need like a like I think a David Bowie I think and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna tell a story that uh
00:56:51
Speaker
A friend of mine experienced, he was, we, we, we had gone to see, um, in New York, there was a Bowie pop-up store for his, what would have been the 75th birthday. And, uh, my friend is waiting outside the store and he sees, you know, it's in the lower east side of Manhattan and he sees, uh, a couple pass by and they sort of look in the window and the guy, I'm not going to, he had like an, like a, like a little patois. I obviously am not going to do the patois, but he, he said, uh,
00:57:20
Speaker
Let the man sleep. You know, it's just one of those, especially, you know, posthumous artists, you know, that, that can be, that can be challenging. And this is, you know, you don't have that challenge that you'd have with a prince or Michael Jackson. Chris and Glenn are very much alive. They're healthy. I know Chris just had a medical procedure recently, but he's doing good as far as I know.
00:57:44
Speaker
Really take this opportunity to – I don't want to say – exploit is not the right word. Capitalize is not a word I like to use, but to really take advantage of the fact that these guys are here telling their story.
00:57:57
Speaker
They're adding to the story. They're not simply going, remember when we did cool for cats? You know, like they're, they're, they're adding. And I would hope that, you know, I, I feel this way. I think most fans, I think the new material they're doing is very good. I don't, you know, I don't find myself, I'm not the kind of person who would do this, but I don't find myself thinking about getting some popcorn at the show when they play.
00:58:23
Speaker
a new song. And so, you know, I just, I really hope that there's a way to get whoever needs to, to do it or remember whoever needs to see it. Again, you're not, we're not talking like a Beatles anthology thing here. Like it's, I don't think it's going to blow open the doors of perception for people who haven't discovered what a great band, you know, they might always just be abandoned. A lot of people like
00:58:52
Speaker
that a lot of specific people, you know, whether it's, I don't know, a couple hundred thousand, I don't know how many people, you know, I know what the social media metrics are.
00:59:02
Speaker
I think this is a good opportunity to start thinking about this stuff, especially if they're game to participate. Because I don't think – again, you could do it in a way that's not looking backward for the sake of looking backward or reissuing stuff for the sake of reissuing stuff. It's like, oh, this is the third time I'm going to buy this thing.
00:59:25
Speaker
I think that there's still stuff to be done. And I just hope that, you know, that whatever factors make, need to make it happen, we'll make it happen. Right. I mean, people are willing to invest in a legacy band and that's a weird term to use because they're still alive. Like you said, um, they're playing mostly, uh, well, how, I don't know what the percentage balance would be. They're playing their back catalog. Sure.
00:59:51
Speaker
more often than not. And it's kind of what McCartney has been saying, you know, if I can both set list, what would I want to hear what you know, you know, sometimes you go to these gigs, especially if they're acoustic, like with Glenn, and somebody had said in a Facebook group that they wanted to hear rose, I said, Oh, that'd be great. Yeah. But you probably have to hear Glenn do it. I don't think you're gonna hear squeeze do it.
01:00:16
Speaker
Well, it's tough because you wonder what the choices are and that they're willing to make the investment of going on the road and doing this and selling merch. I think it's all five of Glenn's demo discs.
01:00:40
Speaker
for sale, which is also eye-opening, but I think you can shed some light on that because that actually is almost like a self-promotion because there's his record label called Kehotic.
01:00:54
Speaker
Right. And that is something I would, you know, if I were pulling the strings with management, I would say, put those on Bandcamp, because you don't have to get permission. You know, Universal is not like, well, we own that, no, you own that copyright. That's the way that, you know, some, there are some deals where sometimes labels do own your demos, but obviously that was not the case. If he could put five of those discs out of that material. So I would say, if
01:01:22
Speaker
if there's a way, because again, I don't know that you can stream those. I think those you could only ever buy on CD. I could be wrong.
01:01:30
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm not sure that is, I mean, are they so exclusive that that's what he wants to do? You know, get the hardcore fans, you know, invested in all the stuff that I did, you know, to show Squeeves, you know, and then they become a song that you like, but here's the demo version. So yeah, that's an unusual angle. Who do we talk to about that?
01:01:59
Speaker
I'm gonna be finding out. I'm gonna be sending this podcast to everybody I know. Well, everybody I know in the industry, I'll be saying, hey look, here's what I think.
01:02:08
Speaker
And it would be nice because it feels like there's so much out there, like the avenues that you spoke of, especially Bandcamp, that there probably isn't even a connection, you know, say with these bands that are in the squeeze realm. Cause you wonder, how did Nick Lowe and Marshall Crenshaw, how did that all happen? Well, I think for them to be on Bandcamp. Well, and you hit on a perfect, uh,
01:02:38
Speaker
The perfect analogy, it's not that, it's not that, uh, you know, Chris and Gwen or any act of that vintage, they're not looking at it and saying, no, I don't want to be on band camp. They're not looking at it at all. You know, so you got to have somebody educate and say this, Hey, this is a, this is, this is an avenue that you, you need to be paying attention to if you're not already.
01:03:00
Speaker
I mean in the case of Marshall and Nick, it's that the Yeprock label is small enough and attuned enough that that's – they are choosing. I don't think – again, I don't think Universal Music is going to start putting the classic A&M records on Bandcamp because that's just – it's not –
01:03:20
Speaker
The band camp does not interact with, they don't really do business with major, major labels, because I think it's just, you know, again, it's a different, different ethos. Plus, you know, again, since band camp, an artist makes more on band camp, or a label makes more. Yeah, I don't know, the Universal would want that. I think Universal is happy with the money that they're making from their, their deals with Spotify and Apple, I guess.
01:03:47
Speaker
Let me touch briefly before we wrap up here. The use of Tempted in Rock Band? Do you know anything about that? You talked about it like 10 years ago when Rock Band was huge.
01:04:04
Speaker
I did. It was funny because I was just thinking about this because I was actually listening to a completely different artist, but I was listening to Reckless by Brian Adams. The only reason that those two were in my head is because Tempted and I think Summer of 69 both had rock band
01:04:24
Speaker
I'm not much of a gamer.
New Experiences Through Games like Rock Band
01:04:28
Speaker
That part of my brain shut off when I started going to college. Unless there's like a Mario in it, I don't really care. But Rock Bandit was always interested in, and I was always interested once they started licensing master recordings. And in the case of Tempted and in the case of Summer of 69 by Brian Adams,
01:04:46
Speaker
in converting and taking the raw master the multi-track tapes and converting them to the game they found for both of them they that those songs when you hear them on the radio they fade out but obviously you can't like you if you're playing a game that you know if you're pretending to play these instruments
01:05:10
Speaker
you can't fade out. That's a dumb way to end the playing experience. So a lot of times they would sort of manipulate the multitracks to kind of create some sort of ending. But in the case of Tempted, if you go on YouTube and search like Tempted Rock Band, which is tough because I know Squeeze is a rock band, but if you listen to see how the game was played,
01:05:38
Speaker
You get about, I would say, 20 or 30 seconds beyond what, you know, as the song faded out. And it's not, you know, again, it's not manipulation of what you already hear to loop it. Like, it is Paul singing notes that he's not singing, and it's, you know, it's Glenn playing guitar notes that
01:06:01
Speaker
You know, it is a longer part of the performance and it's just interesting, you know, I don't know if any, you know, if anybody at Universal had thought, and I always used to, I always used to say like, it would be cool if they, you know, that would be, to me, like a great product series would be like, you know, songs unfated. Like, what does it sound like? Like, you know, we all know when the song, and you know, especially if you're,
01:06:25
Speaker
I'm sure Squeeze fans are. If you're the kind of music nerd that would turn up the the volume to hear everything before it before it all before you couldn't hear anymore and then you'd have to turn it down really fast to make sure the next song wasn't like extremely loud. I always thought that would be an interesting series of like okay what does this song sound like raw like the master tape and and and Tempted is an example of that so that could be a bonus track somewhere for these uh if they ever want to
01:06:54
Speaker
never wanna revive the squeeze discographical overhaul. That could be something they could do. This sounds like an episode of Discovery Plus. You know, delving deep into the endings of songs. Oh, I love that stuff. And yeah, in fact, I was listening to the Brian Adams Reckless album. And again, it was just the regular album.
01:07:24
Speaker
And I was, I remember that summer 69 had this like neat little extra bit that was unfaded. And I immediately went to YouTube and it's like, I just listened to the song, but I'm gonna listen to it again, just so I can hear this part.
01:07:37
Speaker
It's amazing that we'll get that granular about our love for an artist, especially Squeeze and talk about things that were in the past, but that they've been brought up again. And so pretty much, you know, I really appreciate the fact that you, you youngins out there have really done your homework, have contributed
Future of Squeeze's Catalog and Accessibility
01:08:06
Speaker
So much the resurgence of the back catalog in a unique and different way because that's what squeeze deserves. So Mike I thank you from the highest mountain above and I want to Get that word out that squeeze Should be on Bandcamp. And so let's do it. Yeah Yeah, and then and then hopefully somebody Universal gets a light bulb over their head and and maybe
01:08:36
Speaker
you know, does some tape research and goes, okay, well, what, what, what stuff has been released, but just isn't available, like to consume. So that's the thing, you know, I've, I've, I've sat in so many meetings where they want to, where artists, managers of artists who are either older, or in some cases deceased, I can think of that are like, we want to expand the reach of, now I don't think squeeze or craving, I think they're, they're doing fine. I don't think that they're like,
01:09:05
Speaker
trying to grab that bag of money with a dollar sign on the side of it necessarily. But where you have these managers that are like, we want to make these artists even bigger and even more prominent. Well, one of the ways that you can do that very easily is simply have more things to listen to.
01:09:24
Speaker
If there's a hundred squeeze songs streaming on a service, but there were maybe another 20 B-sides that didn't end up on a CD somewhere, but they exist, the tapes exist, maybe you've digitized them, maybe you can digitize them for a nominal fee to pay your studio to master it properly.
01:09:52
Speaker
Why wouldn't you do that? And I think the problem is that you can – there's no – you can't put a formula on a blackboard. I always used to say this when I worked closer in the industry was that it was always very difficult. Like if I would write a social media post or whatever, which is something I did very often.
01:10:15
Speaker
It was very hard to figure out, okay, here's, you know, buy this, you know, this, on this day, this record was released, stream it now, you know, or have some sort of trivia about it. You can't formulate really, like, how much money that made, like, you know, you can do your analytics of like, okay, well, a hundred people, a thousand people saw this post, 500 people clicked on the link,
01:10:44
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know what the – the math is so Byzantine to me, and that's – I think that was always – that's always the hardest thing about these conversations is that like these conversations that you – like that you and I are having right now are very much irrespective of the financial realities or the manpower realities of what it takes to actually get these things to happen.
01:11:08
Speaker
And I often say that a lot of times when you, if you as a fan are saying, why hasn't this happened yet? Like I'm saying right now, usually there's an answer and nobody knows what that answer is. It could be finance. It could be, you know, they weren't going to do it, but they could, you know, talks broke down between the two parties. I don't know. But all of that to say is, um,
01:11:34
Speaker
I don't know, I'm just, here I am just using my modest platform as a writer of some renown among catalog fans to say, hey look, like this is, why not? Why not do this? Why not at least look into doing this?
01:11:53
Speaker
And, uh, if it happens, I'll be very happy. Uh, if not, I'm still happy because I got to talk about squeeze. Come on. And that's what we're here for. Obviously. So thank you so much for, for discussing all of this and making it relevant to the squeeze. Well, thank you. I'm grateful for the opportunity.