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Advice Ep: Making Your Home a Source of Inspiration, with Tara McCauley
34 Plays1 year ago
In this week’s episode, interior designer Tara McCauley gives listeners an inside look at her practice, which she likens, curiously, to a travel agency. She says: “I like to think of myself like I’ve gone into the market and I’ve done the research and I’ve talked to the experts and the locals and I’m bringing you the best kind of experience you’re looking for.” She's also brought along a small splatter-painted box by artist Thomas Engelhart, a veteran of the houses of Mugler and Hermès. For his series of handmade objets d’art in the shapes of pyramids, platters, obelisks, and disks, Engelhart has taken inspiration from porphyry, a material prized by the ancient Romans and employed in the construction of monuments and tombs—just one more instance of the fertile cross-pollination between the arts of the past and the present.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Curious Objects' Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
00:00:09
Speaker
I'm Ben Miller.
00:00:10
Speaker
Each week on this podcast, we talk about objects with fascinating stories behind them.
00:00:14
Speaker
They're often beautiful and meticulously crafted and rare and special in so many different ways.
00:00:20
Speaker
But of course, these objects don't exist in a vacuum.
00:00:23
Speaker
And if you're collecting objects like these, you're putting them, well, somewhere.
00:00:28
Speaker
and where you put them and what you surround them with, and the way they fit into the rooms around them, the spaces that we live in, that can be just as important to your experience of the piece as the object itself.
00:00:43
Speaker
And of course, what I'm describing is essentially interior design.
00:00:46
Speaker
And that's not just for serious dedicated collectors.
00:00:50
Speaker
You know, we all have objects that matter to us and that we want to fit into our lived spaces in a meaningful way.
00:00:58
Speaker
And figuring out how to do that can be really daunting.
00:01:01
Speaker
But my guest today is terrifically talented
Meet Tara McCauley: Interior Designer Extraordinaire
00:01:04
Speaker
at just that.
00:01:04
Speaker
She is an interior designer based here in New York.
00:01:08
Speaker
And her work has been featured in New York Magazine, House Beautiful, Architectural Digest, Wall Street Journal, etc, etc, etc.
00:01:15
Speaker
She does fascinating work fusing contemporary and historic themes.
00:01:20
Speaker
And I'm so delighted to be joined by Tara McCauley.
00:01:23
Speaker
Tara, welcome to Curious Objects.
00:01:25
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me.
00:01:27
Speaker
So we have a lot to talk about and you have a really great curious object for us today.
00:01:32
Speaker
We're going to chat about inspiration and storytelling.
00:01:36
Speaker
And honestly, what I'm most excited about is to pick your brain for some practical advice for people looking to make their own spaces more interesting and gratifying.
00:01:45
Speaker
But first, I have some rapid fire questions
Tara's Favorite Rooms and Museums
00:01:48
Speaker
for you.
00:01:48
Speaker
Are you game?
00:01:50
Speaker
I am ready.
00:01:50
Speaker
All right.
00:01:51
Speaker
We're going to start with a tough one.
00:01:52
Speaker
What's your favorite room to visit?
00:01:54
Speaker
One of my favorite rooms to visit in New York.
00:01:57
Speaker
for a variety of reasons is Emily Erdman's Chartreux Salon in the village.
00:02:04
Speaker
It's a place where I actually met the creator of my curious object that I am going to discuss today.
00:02:12
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:02:13
Speaker
What do you like so much about that room?
00:02:16
Speaker
It's got this electrifying chartreuse lacquered color.
00:02:20
Speaker
And it's got a beautiful combination of Georgian antiques and contemporary art.
00:02:28
Speaker
And it's where some of the best parties in New York happen.
00:02:33
Speaker
Terrific.
00:02:35
Speaker
It's maybe as much about what happens in the room as what the room actually is.
00:02:39
Speaker
What's your favorite museum to visit?
00:02:42
Speaker
I can give you...
00:02:44
Speaker
a cliche answer and a slightly sacrilegious answer.
00:02:49
Speaker
Wow.
00:02:49
Speaker
Now I want both.
00:02:52
Speaker
The cliche answer is the Louvre, particularly their decorative arts museum.
00:02:58
Speaker
But my sacrilegious answer that will send me to art history jail is my favorite museum to visit in Florence is actually the Ferragamo Shoe Museum.
00:03:11
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:03:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:14
Speaker
Tell me more.
00:03:14
Speaker
Why do you like that so much?
00:03:17
Speaker
I mean, it's almost like
00:03:22
Speaker
a breath of fresh air when you're surrounded by so much beautiful art history that, what do they call it?
00:03:28
Speaker
You can fall prey to Stendhal syndrome where you're overwhelmed by beauty and crushed by centuries of visual culture and history.
00:03:39
Speaker
And the Shoe Museum actually recontextualizes art that is inspired by fashion and vice versa.
00:03:46
Speaker
And there's just something fun about
00:03:50
Speaker
going to a secret little museum underneath a shoe store that most people don't even know is there.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's fantastic.
00:03:57
Speaker
That's going on my list for my next visit.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:01
Speaker
And of course, you have fabulous shoes yourself.
00:04:03
Speaker
So we can overlook that.
00:04:05
Speaker
Okay, you are banned from interior design, you have to pick a new profession.
00:04:10
Speaker
What is it?
Tara's Career Alternatives and Design Philosophy
00:04:12
Speaker
I think I would be a comedic actor.
00:04:18
Speaker
But that maybe is just, you know, because I love talking.
00:04:23
Speaker
I could see that.
00:04:24
Speaker
At first I thought that was out of left field, but actually it kind of tracks.
00:04:30
Speaker
Okay, I have a few that I just want you to tell me overrated or underrated.
00:04:36
Speaker
So we'll start with Mario Buada.
00:04:39
Speaker
I think he's perfectly...
00:04:42
Speaker
Rated.
00:04:43
Speaker
Correctly rated.
00:04:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:04:44
Speaker
That's a valid answer.
00:04:47
Speaker
Versailles.
00:04:50
Speaker
Oh, well, you're giving me all of these things that I personally celebrate and think about all the time.
00:04:57
Speaker
So I don't really think it's underrated in the sense that it hasn't gotten its due, but I think it's accurately recognized.
00:05:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:06
Speaker
Fair enough.
00:05:07
Speaker
How about floral decor?
00:05:11
Speaker
Underrated.
00:05:12
Speaker
Underrated.
00:05:14
Speaker
The color navy blue.
00:05:17
Speaker
Underrated because I think that people don't use it with enough saturation.
00:05:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:26
Speaker
They shy away from it maybe.
00:05:29
Speaker
I think that when people picture navy blue, they think almost black or the color of a men's suit.
00:05:35
Speaker
But in my old apartment,
00:05:39
Speaker
I painted the walls navy blue with Benjamin Moore's symphony blue, and it was like a really electrifying color, actually.
00:05:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:47
Speaker
I've seen those pictures and it really pops.
00:05:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:50
Speaker
First dibs, overrated or underrated?
00:05:52
Speaker
I would say underrated for a source of research.
00:06:00
Speaker
It's fun to sort of...
00:06:02
Speaker
go down a rabbit hole where I'm not even looking for anything in particular and letting their algorithm lead me to new discoveries of works I've never heard of before.
00:06:13
Speaker
All right.
00:06:14
Speaker
Algorithms for the win.
00:06:16
Speaker
Salvador Dali.
00:06:19
Speaker
underrated as an interior designer.
00:06:24
Speaker
You know, we, everybody knows his art, but I visited his home in Spain like a decade ago, I think.
00:06:35
Speaker
When I was studying abroad, I made like a solo pilgrimage to go visit it because it was just so spectacular and photos don't do it justice.
00:06:45
Speaker
I love that.
00:06:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:47
Speaker
What's your favorite movie to watch for the interior design?
Movies and Inspirations in Interior Design
00:06:51
Speaker
This is an easy one because it's top of mind.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yesterday I went to go see Yorgo Slant, the most is poor things.
00:07:00
Speaker
And it was the most incredible, like I would watch that movie on silent 10 more times this week.
00:07:07
Speaker
It was so gorgeous.
00:07:09
Speaker
What a recommendation.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yeah, it sort of took Victorian aesthetics as a jumping off point, but it did some surrealism mixed with science fiction.
00:07:26
Speaker
And it was just like a visual confection.
00:07:31
Speaker
But you could see that there was so much thought behind every single element.
00:07:36
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:07:37
Speaker
Well, it's been on my list, but I might have to bump it up a few spots.
00:07:41
Speaker
What's a misconception people have about design that you would like to correct?
00:07:49
Speaker
I think that people think of interior design almost as
00:07:59
Speaker
like that my job is a stylist, like to create a beautiful image.
00:08:05
Speaker
And that's not to detract from the work of a stylist.
00:08:09
Speaker
I don't have that gift.
00:08:11
Speaker
I think a stylist creates like a beautiful image, taking things from 3D to 2D in a way, like it's a specific translating skill that a stylist has.
00:08:24
Speaker
And I think an interior designer is sort of
00:08:28
Speaker
thinking more in three dimensions, um, in a way, like I almost think of myself as a travel agent, like what kind of experience does my client want to have as they experience a space?
00:08:43
Speaker
And I'm also thinking sort of, um, how a space can live and change over time.
00:08:52
Speaker
What artist or craftsperson, or I'll let you choose a designer if you prefer, living or dead, would you invite to dinner?
Admiration for Todd Oldham's Work
00:09:01
Speaker
I love the work of Todd Oldham, whose design work spans from fashion to interiors and products.
00:09:09
Speaker
I just think that he's got equal parts, an interesting craft and an ability to bring a sense of humor and camp to the
00:09:22
Speaker
design in a way that's very timeless and appeals to me very specifically, like to my sense of humor.
00:09:30
Speaker
What, if listeners wanted to look up some of his work, what should they seek out?
00:09:38
Speaker
On his website, he's actually got a pretty good archive of his runway work from the 90s.
00:09:42
Speaker
And he
00:09:46
Speaker
was very detail oriented and he enlisted his family in, um, hand crafting a lot of the embellishments and sewing the garments.
00:09:57
Speaker
Um, and another fun project of his was, um, helping his best friend, uh, Amy Sedaris decorate her apartment in the West village.
00:10:08
Speaker
And Wendy Goodman of New York magazine has like a really great video tour of that apartment.
00:10:15
Speaker
I have to check that out.
00:10:17
Speaker
What did you, did you see the camp show at the Met?
00:10:21
Speaker
Since you mentioned camp?
00:10:22
Speaker
What did you think of that?
00:10:24
Speaker
I loved it.
00:10:25
Speaker
I mean, it just, it really speaks to me, the camp aesthetic.
00:10:30
Speaker
I think I'm always playing with ideas of, you know, highbrow, lowbrow, historical references, but interpreted in comedic ways, like
00:10:47
Speaker
One of my favorite garments off the top of my head that is hanging in my closet is this silk Moschino skirt that from far away looks like a floral 1960s silhouette, maybe something Sophia Loren would wear.
00:11:01
Speaker
But when you get up close, you realize that the pattern's made of different shapes of pasta and tomatoes.
00:11:06
Speaker
Wow.
00:11:07
Speaker
Amazing.
00:11:08
Speaker
That's kind of the perfect camp object, isn't it?
00:11:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:11:13
Speaker
Okay, what's a book that someone from outside of the world of design and decor should read to start to understand what's going on in your world?
Recommended Reads in Interior Design
00:11:24
Speaker
Well, this is going to be a shameless plug for a good friend of mine and a friend of yours as well.
00:11:30
Speaker
But I think the most exciting book that I look to for inspiration all the time is Michael Diaz Griffith's book, The New Antiquarians.
00:11:41
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:11:43
Speaker
Fantastic.
00:11:43
Speaker
He came on the podcast when that was released to talk about it.
00:11:47
Speaker
We had a really fun conversation.
00:11:49
Speaker
I think that book sort of encapsulates the zeitgeist in a way that no other book has right now.
00:11:58
Speaker
Like he's really got his finger on the pulse and he's really thinking a lot about how people are living right now.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:05
Speaker
Well, he has his finger on the pulse and he is also perhaps in a way setting the beat of the pulse himself.
00:12:13
Speaker
I'm sure he wouldn't object to that.
00:12:15
Speaker
He'd be flattered by that.
00:12:16
Speaker
I hope so.
00:12:17
Speaker
I hope so.
00:12:17
Speaker
It's meant as a compliment.
00:12:24
Speaker
We'll be right back with Tara Macaulay.
00:12:25
Speaker
First, just a reminder that you can see images of Thomas Engelhardt's box and some of the interiors that Tara's designed at themagazineantix.com slash podcast.
00:12:33
Speaker
And of course, on Instagram at Objective Interest or on Tara's Instagram at Tara Macaulay.
00:12:40
Speaker
If you want to get in touch and share your thoughts or your questions or your comments or your ideas for future episodes, I would love to hear it.
00:12:47
Speaker
And you can email me at curiousobjectspodcast.gmail.com or send those ideas over to my Instagram.
00:12:55
Speaker
And if somehow you aren't subscribed to Curious Objects yet, I can't imagine why, but you should hit the subscribe button now so you don't miss future episodes.
00:13:04
Speaker
I mean, one of the things we rely on most to spread the word about curious objects is word of mouth.
00:13:10
Speaker
So if you have a friend or a parent or a child you think might be interested, pick an episode you think they'll like and let them know.
00:13:19
Speaker
I so appreciate you helping me out.
00:13:21
Speaker
Okay, back to Tara McCauley.
The Story of a Handmade Box and Its Influence
00:13:27
Speaker
First, I just want to ask you, what is our curious object for today?
00:13:30
Speaker
And what's the story behind it?
00:13:33
Speaker
So the object that I've selected today is a small handmade box made by my friend, the artist Thomas Englehart.
00:13:43
Speaker
And Thomas found his way to object design from a career in Paris designing fashion.
00:13:53
Speaker
for Mugler and Hermes.
00:13:55
Speaker
And he started sort of as a hobby during the pandemic to build objects like boxes and obelisks and mirrors out of the
00:14:08
Speaker
bookbinding materials and, um, you know, high end paper goods.
00:14:15
Speaker
And what he'll do is build an object and then hand paint a different stone finish onto paper and glue it on.
00:14:27
Speaker
But the way that he does it is so precise.
00:14:30
Speaker
And I don't have the patience for that sort of, um, craft making at all.
00:14:36
Speaker
It's almost like a,
00:14:38
Speaker
a reminder to have patience when I look at his work.
00:14:41
Speaker
Wow.
00:14:41
Speaker
Wow.
00:14:43
Speaker
And you mentioned that you met him in a particularly interesting setting.
00:14:47
Speaker
How did that come about?
00:14:48
Speaker
Yes, so the gallerist, Emily Erdmans, reached out to me when she was planning an exhibition of Thomas's work and asked if I would help design the exhibition itself.
00:15:03
Speaker
When I was going over the references that Thomas cites as his inspiration, it just clicked immediately, like we are on the same page here.
00:15:14
Speaker
He's referencing
00:15:16
Speaker
Egyptian artifacts and at the same time referencing like
00:15:23
Speaker
the album art of New War.
00:15:26
Speaker
And we wanted to do some sort of brightly colored neoclassical inspired mishmash.
00:15:36
Speaker
Is that a technical term?
00:15:38
Speaker
Yes.
00:15:39
Speaker
I learned that in college.
00:15:43
Speaker
And the box itself has this pattern to it that is sort of like
00:15:51
Speaker
in between verdigris meets abstract expressionist art meets porphyry and the colors came from a Memphis Milano reference that I sort of could clock before Thomas even told me and I had just moved from my old apartment in Brooklyn to where I'm living now in Manhattan and
00:16:14
Speaker
I had spent a ton of time hand painting this really colorful terrazzo pattern on the walls in my old apartment.
00:16:22
Speaker
And I felt kind of sad to leave that behind.
00:16:26
Speaker
So the colors in this box remind me of it in this very special way that, you know, we develop these attachments to objects
00:16:38
Speaker
in all sorts of ways for different sentimental reasons.
00:16:41
Speaker
And this was almost like a sentimental reason that happened by chance.
00:16:48
Speaker
He didn't paint it inspired by the walls in my apartment.
00:16:51
Speaker
It was just serendipitous.
00:16:52
Speaker
Right, right.
00:16:54
Speaker
And then I texted him the other day, knowing that I was going to talk about this on the podcast.
00:17:01
Speaker
And I asked him, you know, what was the specific inspiration for the profile of this box?
00:17:07
Speaker
Because I thought that he was going to say it was like something neoclassical or something specific from Egypt.
00:17:13
Speaker
And he texted me a picture of the 17th century Dutch hat, which was not what I expected at all, which
00:17:22
Speaker
is what i love about you know engaging with creators who are alive as much as i love vintage and antique things i love collaborating with people who are working through contemporary lenses but looking to the past in a similar way that i do or maybe in a totally different way that i would never have thought of
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah, so it's a really interesting piece because it has this historical reference, which you might think of as sophisticated and serene and austere, but actually it's just comical.
00:18:01
Speaker
It almost looks like a Smurf hat.
00:18:03
Speaker
It's these super conical Dutch hats that I guess were very stylish back in the day.
00:18:10
Speaker
But that's the historic connection, which I find really entertaining.
00:18:15
Speaker
And it makes me wonder, like, if you were designing a room around this box, or at least with this box as one of the core elements of that room, you know, how would you think about incorporating that?
00:18:32
Speaker
How would the box influence the choices that you're making about that room?
00:18:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's very much a curious object.
00:18:39
Speaker
It's very much deserving of being on display.
00:18:43
Speaker
Right now I have it on my bookcase, which coincidentally,
00:18:50
Speaker
is something that i am working on with thomas um i've got i mean i know this is sacrilege to the curious objects podcast because it's a much maligned object but i um out of necessity i have uh built a large bookcase of four ikea billy bookcases but
00:19:16
Speaker
Let me caveat that with how we are using it.
00:19:19
Speaker
I lined the inside of each shelf with silk moray wallpaper, and I'm going to paint the whole thing to look like an antique finish.
00:19:30
Speaker
And I'm going to have Thomas design some hand-painted painting.
00:19:36
Speaker
paper fronts for the doors.
00:19:39
Speaker
And by the end, you will not recognize this as an Ikea billy bookcase.
00:19:45
Speaker
Or my life depends on it.
00:19:47
Speaker
Yeah, I was going to say, I can't believe you admitted to us on air that it started life as an Ikea bookcase when we see pictures of it in a magazine.
00:19:56
Speaker
We're never going to be aware.
00:19:57
Speaker
Unless that's part of the fun story behind it.
00:20:01
Speaker
Maybe I'll take pride in it.
00:20:03
Speaker
Well, I was just recently reading, um, the book about Donridge by Hutton Wilkinson and Wendy Goodman and Tony Duquette's house looks like it's full of the same objects that he would put in like Palazzo Brandolini, but a lot of the objects he made himself because he was a set decorator.
00:20:25
Speaker
And if he couldn't afford the real thing, he would make it.
00:20:32
Speaker
And that's why I'm so interested in, I don't like to think of myself as a DIYer.
00:20:41
Speaker
I almost think of myself more as like Dr. Frankenstein.
00:20:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:50
Speaker
um like reanimating something that is a little worse for wear and putting a new spin on it or putting together a bunch of different ideas that are maybe a little incongruous um which is maybe why i liked the film poor thing so much if you watch it that's a major plot point but anyway um
00:21:11
Speaker
In terms of decorating around this object, I worked for the designer Nick Olson for eight years.
00:21:18
Speaker
And his design process always started with one thing that had an interesting color combination in it, which sometimes he would call a hero fabric.
00:21:31
Speaker
Or it would maybe be an antique carpet, something that has more than just two colors to it, which this box has.
00:21:41
Speaker
And that is how you successfully create a decorating scheme, in my experience, in my training.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
And this box has pops of teal blue and orange and yellow.
00:21:57
Speaker
And the base is not a crisp white.
00:22:01
Speaker
It's like a tobacco stained ivory sort of color.
00:22:05
Speaker
So I think I would try to bring in some
00:22:09
Speaker
something antique, something old, something that's not a pure crisp white, and then maybe some large abstract expressionist artwork that speaks to the way that Thomas applies the paint to the paper, sort of like a splatter technique.
00:22:33
Speaker
But I don't like things to be too matchy matchy.
00:22:35
Speaker
So I think
00:22:38
Speaker
Maybe distilling the different elements of the box into different elements that would coordinate with it around the room is how I would approach it.
00:22:48
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:49
Speaker
Matchy matchy is another technical term, right?
00:22:53
Speaker
Yes, that's on the NCIDQ.
00:22:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:57
Speaker
We're learning a lot today.
00:23:00
Speaker
And so, I mean, you mentioned earlier that you think of yourself as something of a travel agent, more so than say a stylist.
00:23:09
Speaker
And that storytelling really plays a central role in your approach to design.
Design Approach: Creating Narratives and Experiences
00:23:16
Speaker
And this box, obviously, you've already started to tell us a bit about the sort of fantastic and very personal story behind that.
00:23:25
Speaker
But what does that mean to be a travel agent?
00:23:29
Speaker
Well, in college, before I found interior design, I sort of was dabbling with the thought of being a set designer for film.
00:23:37
Speaker
And I
00:23:39
Speaker
that approach hasn't really left me.
00:23:42
Speaker
The idea that every element of a room has to have a reason why you put it there.
00:23:51
Speaker
And if we're taking the travel agent analogy again, it's like, I am wondering what kind of experience my client wants to have when they're in the space and the way that a travel agent might go
00:24:07
Speaker
to this destination in advance and do the research and meet the locals and try to edit, um,
00:24:16
Speaker
a trip there that has the best of every, you know, restaurant, shopping experience, historical visit, etc.
00:24:27
Speaker
I like to think of myself like I've gone into the market, so to speak, and I've done the research and I've talked to the experts and the locals and I'm bringing you
00:24:38
Speaker
the pieces that I think will give you the best kind of experience you're looking for.
00:24:43
Speaker
Like, I don't really consider myself, I don't really aspire to ever be the connoisseur of one specific specialty.
00:24:56
Speaker
I love talking to people who are connoisseurs in their field.
00:25:01
Speaker
And maybe it's because I love to talk
00:25:04
Speaker
I just like, you know, I like having that's why I live in New York City.
00:25:08
Speaker
I don't like watching
00:25:11
Speaker
If I have to watch another Zoom, I'm going to start crying.
00:25:14
Speaker
I like to be out in the world.
00:25:17
Speaker
I like to talk to people who are animated when they're telling me about why something is so special.
00:25:25
Speaker
I'm mostly inspired by people who either get really excited about something really obscure and weird or people who are keeping...
00:25:35
Speaker
a craft alive.
00:25:38
Speaker
My best friends are textile designers and watching them work through how a new design is going to be woven by someone who's working on a loom that's 100 years old.
00:25:48
Speaker
Like to me, that's so fun to listen in on.
00:25:53
Speaker
And I may be a master of none, but I'm interested in talking to people who do have a mastery of one specific period or craft.
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah, well, so in that vein, could you tell me about a time that you incorporated a historic object or some kind of historic inspiration into a design that you worked on?
00:26:18
Speaker
Yeah, well, I designed the primary bedroom suite at the Brooklyn Heights Designer Show House a little over a year ago.
00:26:27
Speaker
And that was a really fun exercise in getting to design a fantasy space because it wasn't really for a person who was going to live there.
00:26:37
Speaker
It was a show house that was only open for six weeks.
00:26:41
Speaker
So I...
00:26:44
Speaker
decided that my imaginary client would be the fashion designer Elsa Schiaparelli because I've always loved her work.
00:26:52
Speaker
And she was living this really exciting life in Paris during the height of French Art Deco.
00:27:00
Speaker
But also, she was collaborating with a lot of the great surrealist artists.
00:27:04
Speaker
And I would argue that her designs were surrealist works of art in themselves.
00:27:10
Speaker
And that was such like a rich starting point for me to do some research and incorporate elements where from the material on the wall to a tiny
00:27:26
Speaker
piece of jewelry in the walk-in closet.
00:27:29
Speaker
Everything that I put there had like a story behind it.
00:27:33
Speaker
I almost wish that the show house went on for longer so I could have like answered more questions when visitors came by because people would, you know, ask me a question an hour later.
00:27:43
Speaker
They'd say like, okay, well, thanks for telling us so much.
00:27:46
Speaker
We got to go to the rest of the house.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:51
Speaker
And do you see this with your clients that they're sort of seeking out or craving objects that tell stories that reach into the past, you know, across the centuries?
00:28:02
Speaker
I think so.
00:28:05
Speaker
I think that you have to get a read on what a client is looking for.
00:28:11
Speaker
Um, sometimes they want you to re contextualize something that they've had for a long time that they're really connected to already.
00:28:21
Speaker
But other times I think that some clients are looking for me to re contextualize something that they've had for a long time that already has a lot of meaning for them.
00:28:32
Speaker
or maybe they've been given this heirloom that doesn't really mean that much to them but if we incorporate like a new fabric that will recontextualize it in a way that feels like it appeals to their own sense of style um that's all you need to build like a connection where there wasn't already one with an heirloom um other times i think that
00:29:02
Speaker
when I am just bringing objects to a client and telling them why I'm excited about it, that translates in the same way where I love listening to, you know, an antiques dealer describing why something special or a contemporary artist explaining their process to me.
00:29:23
Speaker
I almost feel like I'm an editor where I am explaining to the client, this is why this should matter to you.
00:29:30
Speaker
I see, right.
00:29:31
Speaker
That's fascinating.
00:29:32
Speaker
You're like the antiques whisperer.
00:29:41
Speaker
When did making plans get this complicated?
00:29:45
Speaker
It's time to streamline with WhatsApp.
00:29:47
Speaker
The secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.
00:29:50
Speaker
Use polls to settle dinner plans.
00:29:52
Speaker
Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th.
00:29:57
Speaker
And never miss a meme or milestone.
00:29:59
Speaker
All protected with end-to-end encryption.
00:30:02
Speaker
It's time for WhatsApp.
00:30:03
Speaker
Message privately with everyone.
00:30:05
Speaker
Learn more at whatsapp.com.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah, I can say from experience that dealers like myself, we often need someone like you to help us.
00:30:16
Speaker
Because on the one hand, you have the geeky passion and the deep-seated specialization and connoisseurship and the people who just absolutely nerd out over the shape of the OG on the foot of that
00:30:36
Speaker
And then on the other hand, you have people who maybe have some vague idea of interest in historical design, who, you know, visit old houses when they travel and enjoy it, but who aren't necessarily diving into the most arcane scholarly texts on the very specific details of this maker or that workshop and so on.
00:31:01
Speaker
And trying to bridge the gap between those interests is really important and not trivial.
00:31:08
Speaker
Right.
00:31:08
Speaker
And I don't think that most people want to live in a period room.
00:31:12
Speaker
And I don't think that that's a very modern way to live anyway.
00:31:18
Speaker
I know that on a past podcast, you talked about Walter Benjamin's, you know,
00:31:26
Speaker
art in the age of mechanical reproduction and getting that title correct.
00:31:30
Speaker
And of course that was something I read in undergrad, like everybody.
00:31:33
Speaker
Um, but I think that it's, I'm not really interested in creating a space that feels like every object is either from a specific time period or referencing it or is, um, reproduction.
00:31:54
Speaker
Like I, I,
00:31:57
Speaker
need something to feel.
00:32:02
Speaker
I think that it's important that things are in a modern context and put together with a point of view.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:13
Speaker
There's something dishonest about trying to just recreate the past for the sake of it, because there are ways to incorporate things from the past in a fresh way.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:27
Speaker
Yeah, I also think there's a related misconception, which is that, you know, a quote unquote period room from, say, 1780 should be filled with all objects that were made in the 1780s.
00:32:44
Speaker
Whereas in reality, nobody in the 1780s had rooms full of nothing but pieces made in the 1780s.
00:32:51
Speaker
Right.
00:32:52
Speaker
You know, they had new pieces, they had old pieces.
00:32:54
Speaker
I mean, there are, of course, there are exceptions.
00:32:57
Speaker
You'll find people who are just laser focused on some very...
00:33:01
Speaker
narrow aesthetic moment or period.
00:33:05
Speaker
But by and large, you know, we've always lived with a hodgepodge with a, you know, a mismatch of pieces that, you know, we've made it work, you know, for centuries.
00:33:22
Speaker
We've kind of made that eclecticism work.
00:33:27
Speaker
So why should today be any different?
00:33:30
Speaker
Right.
00:33:30
Speaker
And I think that a space should say more about who you are and how you live and experiences that you've had compared to your scholarly interests.
00:33:43
Speaker
To me, that's maybe part of who you are, but that's not who you are.
00:33:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:53
Speaker
So I think we're sort of veering into the direction of practical advice for listeners, which I'm very excited about because I could use some of this myself.
Starting Points for Room Designs
00:34:03
Speaker
So I want to ask just to let's kick this off.
00:34:09
Speaker
with a question that I've been thinking about, which is if you're moving into a new place, a new house, new apartment, and you're starting from scratch, maybe you've brought some things from your old place, but maybe you're looking for a fresh start.
00:34:23
Speaker
You're not quite sure yet what you want to do with each room.
00:34:27
Speaker
What's the better approach?
00:34:28
Speaker
Should you sort of sit down and try to plan the whole thing out, come up with an overarching idea of how each room is going to work and then start to look for elements to fill those rooms up?
00:34:41
Speaker
Or should you maybe start from the other end and acquire some things that you find interesting, put them into rooms, see how they look and start to build the rooms up from below that way?
00:34:54
Speaker
I would say that it's taken me many years of gaining experience in the field to like have built up the muscle that allows me to think in 3D.
00:35:08
Speaker
And most people
00:35:11
Speaker
who don't spend years of their life designing spaces, find it really discouraging if they have this self-imposed feeling like I need to do it all at once.
00:35:24
Speaker
Like in a month, this needs to be done.
00:35:26
Speaker
And each room needs to speak to one another and be coordinated.
00:35:32
Speaker
And if I can't do it all at once, then I'm just going to give up.
00:35:39
Speaker
I think that for the ordinary person decorating their home, starting from an object or starting from a specific rug or a textile or something is the best way to go.
00:35:56
Speaker
And I would say starting with a rug is also a practical way to start because...
00:36:02
Speaker
Bringing a rug in after the furniture is there is a huge pain in the ass.
00:36:07
Speaker
Yeah, I can confirm experience.
00:36:12
Speaker
And I think something that has more than two colors to it is just a safe formula to start with because then you can pull together a scheme.
00:36:25
Speaker
A hero fabric.
00:36:26
Speaker
Yes, hero fabric.
00:36:28
Speaker
So coming at it from the other angle, let's say that you've been in your place for years and you're not moving anywhere.
00:36:36
Speaker
You're not starting from scratch, but you are starting to feel a little bit stale in the space.
00:36:43
Speaker
You don't necessarily want to throw everything out and, you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater, but you want some kind of change.
00:36:51
Speaker
Like what are some practical ways that you could think about shaking it up?
00:36:56
Speaker
Well, something that I am always reminding myself to do is to sort of do...
00:37:04
Speaker
an audit of how intentional you've been with your accumulation of objects.
00:37:14
Speaker
You know, specifically as someone who's shopping all the time for my job, sometimes I pick something up because it feels like, oh, I'll never see this again.
00:37:25
Speaker
And I don't know why I bought it.
00:37:27
Speaker
a month later.
00:37:29
Speaker
Sometimes people hold on to things because they were given as a gift and, oh, I'm afraid that if this friend ever comes over, they're going to ask where that object is that they gave me three years ago.
00:37:40
Speaker
Like, are you holding on to objects without a good intention behind them?
00:37:49
Speaker
I think that another great way to be excited and inspired when you enter your home, even if you've been there a long time, is to not necessarily even buy new art, but move around the art that you have.
00:38:07
Speaker
Look at it in a different way, literally.
00:38:13
Speaker
And I mean, I don't want to tell people, oh, you need to be constantly collecting contemporary art, but just going out in the world and trying to, you know, go to a gallery, chat up an artist.
00:38:31
Speaker
you don't need to buy a massive painting and redesign your whole room around it.
00:38:36
Speaker
But, um, in the same way that you can, you know, find something antique or vintage, that's not a million dollars, but something that, um, is inspiring because I think the feeling that people can't put a name to is,
00:38:56
Speaker
I mean, you called it stale.
00:38:57
Speaker
To me, I would say uninspiring.
00:38:59
Speaker
Like I want to enter my home and be inspired.
00:39:03
Speaker
And sometimes that takes a little bit of shopping.
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:14
Speaker
And what inspires you and what inspires someone else is obviously could be very different.
00:39:17
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:39:20
Speaker
Yeah, but shopping your own home is another great way to, you know, like I said, moving things around can make an object feel entirely new.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great idea, actually.
00:39:35
Speaker
Maybe I'll do that this afternoon.
00:39:39
Speaker
So this is just another question that has special relevance to many of us here in New York, which is how do you go about, and this is actually a question that a listener of mine was interested in, and it made me realize this is so relevant to so many of us.
Personalizing Rental Spaces with Art and Color
00:39:55
Speaker
How do you think about outfitting a rental apartment?
00:39:58
Speaker
Because there are limits on how much you want to invest in features that you're not going to be able to take with you or that may not work as well in a different space.
00:40:08
Speaker
But obviously, it's still your home and you still want it to be inspiring.
00:40:15
Speaker
How do you think about that?
00:40:17
Speaker
I may be an extreme example of this, but I believe in painting a rental apartment.
00:40:24
Speaker
I know that that's not for everyone.
00:40:27
Speaker
I know some people see it as too much of a sunk cost, so to speak.
00:40:33
Speaker
In my experience, I think most landlords are not paying very close attention to what you're doing.
00:40:41
Speaker
I would rather ask forgiveness than permission.
00:40:46
Speaker
But if you don't want to paint, I think that the best
00:40:53
Speaker
Most immediate way to make a room feel less like it's, you know, rental white or rental beige is hanging large artwork on the walls.
00:41:03
Speaker
I think people don't go big enough, literally, with artwork.
00:41:08
Speaker
And it's something that you can take to your next home.
00:41:12
Speaker
It's something that grounds a space, which is hard to do in an all-white room.
00:41:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:22
Speaker
But I mean, it also could be the perfect environment for displaying art.
00:41:28
Speaker
I mean, look at most art galleries, they're white cubes.
00:41:31
Speaker
Sure.
00:41:32
Speaker
True.
00:41:32
Speaker
True.
00:41:34
Speaker
I suppose textiles are another strategy to covering large swaths of the wall.
00:41:40
Speaker
I have friends like Anthony Amiano, who's this amazing interior stylist.
00:41:47
Speaker
His apartment in Bushwick is tented.
00:41:52
Speaker
I think that textiles are a great way to incorporate texture as well.
00:42:01
Speaker
I think that's something that people overlook.
00:42:04
Speaker
the most, even professional interior designers sometimes overlook elements of different textures and how that creates visual interest.
00:42:14
Speaker
For example, if you're, if you're afraid of color, um, you can still incorporate textures that are all neutral, like a neutral palette and a variety of textures to me is just as interesting as a brightly colored room.
00:42:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:32
Speaker
And that's, I like that.
00:42:34
Speaker
It's a really interesting line of thinking and opens up so many possibilities.
00:42:39
Speaker
And speaking of being afraid of color.
00:42:42
Speaker
So I actually took the plunge finally about a year ago, and I've been in my apartment for a very long time, but I finally painted it and I
00:42:51
Speaker
I'm so proud of you.
00:42:53
Speaker
Oh, thanks.
00:42:55
Speaker
I have to say it was terrifying.
00:42:57
Speaker
I mean, that sounds silly to say, right?
00:43:01
Speaker
But I picked out some pretty bold colors and I thought, oh my God, am I going to hate this?
00:43:07
Speaker
And in the end, I didn't, you know, I love it.
00:43:10
Speaker
But it, you know, it makes me think like, how many of these risky choices could I be making that I'm, I'm not because I'm scared of it, or that I maybe I, my brain isn't even allowing me to think about it, because it seems so, so risky.
00:43:29
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes I almost feel like I have to do a forensic psychological excavation into why someone has fear connected with something like a paint color.
00:43:44
Speaker
Or like, I don't know, sometimes I just I use this phrase decorating from a place of fear, like when someone does an accent wall because they're afraid to paint the whole room.
00:43:59
Speaker
Or, you know, sometimes people have this visceral aversion to something that they grew up with.
00:44:07
Speaker
Like, oh, I could never do a Persian rug because that was in my grandma's house.
00:44:14
Speaker
Right.
00:44:14
Speaker
Like, it's so funny how you have to interrogate why you don't,
00:44:22
Speaker
think something will look good.
00:44:26
Speaker
Wow.
00:44:26
Speaker
So you're saying being a designer is a little bit like being a therapist.
00:44:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:32
Speaker
And sometimes it's like being a marriage counselor or like, yeah.
00:44:38
Speaker
A financial advisor.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:42
Speaker
So if you are taking some of these bold moves, or maybe if you're shying away from them, but you're making other choices about your space, what are some warning signs that maybe you should be looking out for that you might be making choices you'll regret or doing something that is going to start to feel uninspired or stale quickly?
00:45:03
Speaker
What would you keep an eye out for?
00:45:06
Speaker
Well,
00:45:07
Speaker
It goes back to the idea of decorating from a place of fear.
00:45:11
Speaker
I think that sometimes you have to trust the process.
00:45:16
Speaker
Like, for instance, when I worked for Nick Olson, we would have the ceiling painted before the wallpaper was installed and the client would walk in and just see the bright color on the ceiling and say, oh, God, what are we doing?
00:45:31
Speaker
And you kind of have to trust that
00:45:36
Speaker
it will work once the rest of the room is done.
00:45:40
Speaker
Um, like I think decorating from a place of fear, an example would be saying, Oh, um, I think I'm going to get sick of this piece of art.
00:45:54
Speaker
So let me do something a little bit safer.
00:45:58
Speaker
But, you know, like I said, if you get sick of something, you could move it to a different
00:46:05
Speaker
sell it and get something else.
00:46:06
Speaker
Like, you know, it's like this quote I love from the original Project Runway that I was obsessed with in high school.
00:46:16
Speaker
Michael Kors once said, lighten up, it's just fashion.
00:46:19
Speaker
It's like, you know, we're just decorating.
00:46:21
Speaker
We're not doing anything.
00:46:22
Speaker
Like we're not doing nuclear fission here.
00:46:25
Speaker
Nothing is so permanent unless it's like a really big investment for you, then maybe, you know,
00:46:32
Speaker
that's a different case, but you know, painting the walls and your rental is not the end of the world.
00:46:38
Speaker
If you decide you don't like it.
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:42
Speaker
You can go back.
00:46:44
Speaker
You can, it is, it is.
00:46:46
Speaker
That's what white paint is for.
00:46:50
Speaker
And so, and then on the other side, like what are some positive signs that you might be on the right track?
00:46:56
Speaker
I think,
00:46:59
Speaker
A good way to know that your home is reflecting who you are and is inspiring.
00:47:04
Speaker
Um, is it's someone comes over, they start pointing things out and asking you about them.
00:47:11
Speaker
And it's like a conversation starter.
00:47:13
Speaker
It's like, um,
00:47:16
Speaker
you feel excited telling your guests about specific things in your home.
00:47:24
Speaker
I think that's a great way to connect with other people.
00:47:28
Speaker
And I know that on this podcast, you're always talking about how objects provide connection between people.
00:47:35
Speaker
And, you know, that's kind of how I feel like with this box from Thomas Englehart.
00:47:41
Speaker
When we met,
00:47:44
Speaker
I was almost in an uncomfortable position like, oh, I don't want to step on any toes.
00:47:49
Speaker
I want to give him this exhibition that he's envisioning.
00:47:55
Speaker
And as soon as we started talking about his references,
00:47:59
Speaker
we realized like, oh, we're like kindred spirits.
00:48:02
Speaker
We're totally on the same page.
00:48:04
Speaker
Like I put together a playlist for the installation and it was like, we were talking about every song and talking about the pyramid club and like everything just felt right.
00:48:15
Speaker
And it was a friendship forged on visual references, but also music and like these things
00:48:27
Speaker
material parts of culture that are so culturally significant.
00:48:35
Speaker
It's fantastic.
00:48:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:37
Speaker
I love that you brought it back to the box at the end.
00:48:41
Speaker
It's my media training.
00:48:42
Speaker
Love it.
00:48:43
Speaker
Love it.
00:48:45
Speaker
Well, Tara McCauley, thanks so much for joining me.
00:48:47
Speaker
This was a lot of fun.
00:48:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:49
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me.
00:48:50
Speaker
I could chat about objects all day and I often do.
00:48:54
Speaker
Excellent.
00:48:55
Speaker
Well, we'll have to get you back on to do more of it sometime.
00:49:00
Speaker
Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support by Sarah Bellotta.
00:49:05
Speaker
Sierra Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
00:49:08
Speaker
Our music is ByteRabRabbit.
00:49:10
Speaker
And I'm Ben Miller.