Transcript
Speaker: Hello, and welcome to Curious Objects, brought to you by the magazine Antiques.
Speaker: I'm Ben Miller.
Speaker: Each week on this podcast, we talk about objects with fascinating stories behind them.
Speaker: They're often beautiful and meticulously crafted and rare and special in so many different ways.
Speaker: But of course, these objects don't exist in a vacuum.
Speaker: And if you're collecting objects like these, you're putting them, well, somewhere.
Speaker: and where you put them and what you surround them with, and the way they fit into the rooms around them, the spaces that we live in, that can be just as important to your experience of the piece as the object itself.
Speaker: And of course, what I'm describing is essentially interior design.
Speaker: And that's not just for serious dedicated collectors.
Speaker: You know, we all have objects that matter to us and that we want to fit into our lived spaces in a meaningful way.
Speaker: And figuring out how to do that can be really daunting.
Speaker: But my guest today is terrifically talented at just that.
Speaker: She is an interior designer based here in New York.
Speaker: And her work has been featured in New York Magazine, House Beautiful, Architectural Digest, Wall Street Journal, etc, etc, etc.
Speaker: She does fascinating work fusing contemporary and historic themes.
Speaker: And I'm so delighted to be joined by Tara McCauley.
Speaker: Tara, welcome to Curious Objects.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: So we have a lot to talk about and you have a really great curious object for us today.
Speaker: We're going to chat about inspiration and storytelling.
Speaker: And honestly, what I'm most excited about is to pick your brain for some practical advice for people looking to make their own spaces more interesting and gratifying.
Speaker: But first, I have some rapid fire questions for you.
Speaker: Are you game?
Speaker: I am ready.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: We're going to start with a tough one.
Speaker: What's your favorite room to visit?
Speaker: One of my favorite rooms to visit in New York.
Speaker: for a variety of reasons is Emily Erdman's Chartreux Salon in the village.
Speaker: It's a place where I actually met the creator of my curious object that I am going to discuss today.
Speaker: Fantastic.
Speaker: What do you like so much about that room?
Speaker: It's got this electrifying chartreuse lacquered color.
Speaker: And it's got a beautiful combination of Georgian antiques and contemporary art.
Speaker: And it's where some of the best parties in New York happen.
Speaker: Terrific.
Speaker: It's maybe as much about what happens in the room as what the room actually is.
Speaker: What's your favorite museum to visit?
Speaker: I can give you...
Speaker: a cliche answer and a slightly sacrilegious answer.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Now I want both.
Speaker: The cliche answer is the Louvre, particularly their decorative arts museum.
Speaker: But my sacrilegious answer that will send me to art history jail is my favorite museum to visit in Florence is actually the Ferragamo Shoe Museum.
Speaker: Oh, wow.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Tell me more.
Speaker: Why do you like that so much?
Speaker: I mean, it's almost like
Speaker: a breath of fresh air when you're surrounded by so much beautiful art history that, what do they call it?
Speaker: You can fall prey to Stendhal syndrome where you're overwhelmed by beauty and crushed by centuries of visual culture and history.
Speaker: And the Shoe Museum actually recontextualizes art that is inspired by fashion and vice versa.
Speaker: And there's just something fun about
Speaker: going to a secret little museum underneath a shoe store that most people don't even know is there.
Speaker: Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker: That's going on my list for my next visit.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And of course, you have fabulous shoes yourself.
Speaker: So we can overlook that.
Speaker: Okay, you are banned from interior design, you have to pick a new profession.
Speaker: What is it?
Speaker: I think I would be a comedic actor.
Speaker: But that maybe is just, you know, because I love talking.
Speaker: I could see that.
Speaker: At first I thought that was out of left field, but actually it kind of tracks.
Speaker: Okay, I have a few that I just want you to tell me overrated or underrated.
Speaker: So we'll start with Mario Buada.
Speaker: I think he's perfectly...
Speaker: Rated.
Speaker: Correctly rated.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's a valid answer.
Speaker: Versailles.
Speaker: Oh, well, you're giving me all of these things that I personally celebrate and think about all the time.
Speaker: So I don't really think it's underrated in the sense that it hasn't gotten its due, but I think it's accurately recognized.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Fair enough.
Speaker: How about floral decor?
Speaker: Underrated.
Speaker: Underrated.
Speaker: The color navy blue.
Speaker: Underrated because I think that people don't use it with enough saturation.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: They shy away from it maybe.
Speaker: I think that when people picture navy blue, they think almost black or the color of a men's suit.
Speaker: But in my old apartment,
Speaker: I painted the walls navy blue with Benjamin Moore's symphony blue, and it was like a really electrifying color, actually.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I've seen those pictures and it really pops.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: First dibs, overrated or underrated?
Speaker: I would say underrated for a source of research.
Speaker: It's fun to sort of...
Speaker: go down a rabbit hole where I'm not even looking for anything in particular and letting their algorithm lead me to new discoveries of works I've never heard of before.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: Algorithms for the win.
Speaker: Salvador Dali.
Speaker: underrated as an interior designer.
Speaker: You know, we, everybody knows his art, but I visited his home in Spain like a decade ago, I think.
Speaker: When I was studying abroad, I made like a solo pilgrimage to go visit it because it was just so spectacular and photos don't do it justice.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: What's your favorite movie to watch for the interior design?
Speaker: This is an easy one because it's top of mind.
Speaker: Yesterday I went to go see Yorgo Slant, the most is poor things.
Speaker: And it was the most incredible, like I would watch that movie on silent 10 more times this week.
Speaker: It was so gorgeous.
Speaker: What a recommendation.
Speaker: Yeah, it sort of took Victorian aesthetics as a jumping off point, but it did some surrealism mixed with science fiction.
Speaker: And it was just like a visual confection.
Speaker: But you could see that there was so much thought behind every single element.
Speaker: Fantastic.
Speaker: Well, it's been on my list, but I might have to bump it up a few spots.
Speaker: What's a misconception people have about design that you would like to correct?
Speaker: I think that people think of interior design almost as
Speaker: like that my job is a stylist, like to create a beautiful image.
Speaker: And that's not to detract from the work of a stylist.
Speaker: I don't have that gift.
Speaker: I think a stylist creates like a beautiful image, taking things from 3D to 2D in a way, like it's a specific translating skill that a stylist has.
Speaker: And I think an interior designer is sort of
Speaker: thinking more in three dimensions, um, in a way, like I almost think of myself as a travel agent, like what kind of experience does my client want to have as they experience a space?
Speaker: And I'm also thinking sort of, um, how a space can live and change over time.
Speaker: What artist or craftsperson, or I'll let you choose a designer if you prefer, living or dead, would you invite to dinner?
Speaker: I love the work of Todd Oldham, whose design work spans from fashion to interiors and products.
Speaker: I just think that he's got equal parts, an interesting craft and an ability to bring a sense of humor and camp to the
Speaker: design in a way that's very timeless and appeals to me very specifically, like to my sense of humor.
Speaker: What, if listeners wanted to look up some of his work, what should they seek out?
Speaker: On his website, he's actually got a pretty good archive of his runway work from the 90s.
Speaker: And he
Speaker: was very detail oriented and he enlisted his family in, um, hand crafting a lot of the embellishments and sewing the garments.
Speaker: Um, and another fun project of his was, um, helping his best friend, uh, Amy Sedaris decorate her apartment in the West village.
Speaker: And Wendy Goodman of New York magazine has like a really great video tour of that apartment.
Speaker: I have to check that out.
Speaker: What did you, did you see the camp show at the Met?
Speaker: Since you mentioned camp?
Speaker: What did you think of that?
Speaker: I loved it.
Speaker: I mean, it just, it really speaks to me, the camp aesthetic.
Speaker: I think I'm always playing with ideas of, you know, highbrow, lowbrow, historical references, but interpreted in comedic ways, like
Speaker: One of my favorite garments off the top of my head that is hanging in my closet is this silk Moschino skirt that from far away looks like a floral 1960s silhouette, maybe something Sophia Loren would wear.
Speaker: But when you get up close, you realize that the pattern's made of different shapes of pasta and tomatoes.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: That's kind of the perfect camp object, isn't it?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Okay, what's a book that someone from outside of the world of design and decor should read to start to understand what's going on in your world?
Speaker: Well, this is going to be a shameless plug for a good friend of mine and a friend of yours as well.
Speaker: But I think the most exciting book that I look to for inspiration all the time is Michael Diaz Griffith's book, The New Antiquarians.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Fantastic.
Speaker: He came on the podcast when that was released to talk about it.
Speaker: We had a really fun conversation.
Speaker: I think that book sort of encapsulates the zeitgeist in a way that no other book has right now.
Speaker: Like he's really got his finger on the pulse and he's really thinking a lot about how people are living right now.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, he has his finger on the pulse and he is also perhaps in a way setting the beat of the pulse himself.
Speaker: I'm sure he wouldn't object to that.
Speaker: He'd be flattered by that.
Speaker: I hope so.
Speaker: I hope so.
Speaker: It's meant as a compliment.
Speaker: We'll be right back with Tara Macaulay.
Speaker: First, just a reminder that you can see images of Thomas Engelhardt's box and some of the interiors that Tara's designed at themagazineantix.com slash podcast.
Speaker: And of course, on Instagram at Objective Interest or on Tara's Instagram at Tara Macaulay.
Speaker: If you want to get in touch and share your thoughts or your questions or your comments or your ideas for future episodes, I would love to hear it.
Speaker: And you can email me at curiousobjectspodcast.gmail.com or send those ideas over to my Instagram.
Speaker: And if somehow you aren't subscribed to Curious Objects yet, I can't imagine why, but you should hit the subscribe button now so you don't miss future episodes.
Speaker: I mean, one of the things we rely on most to spread the word about curious objects is word of mouth.
Speaker: So if you have a friend or a parent or a child you think might be interested, pick an episode you think they'll like and let them know.
Speaker: I so appreciate you helping me out.
Speaker: Okay, back to Tara McCauley.
Speaker: First, I just want to ask you, what is our curious object for today?
Speaker: And what's the story behind it?
Speaker: So the object that I've selected today is a small handmade box made by my friend, the artist Thomas Englehart.
Speaker: And Thomas found his way to object design from a career in Paris designing fashion.
Speaker: for Mugler and Hermes.
Speaker: And he started sort of as a hobby during the pandemic to build objects like boxes and obelisks and mirrors out of the
Speaker: bookbinding materials and, um, you know, high end paper goods.
Speaker: And what he'll do is build an object and then hand paint a different stone finish onto paper and glue it on.
Speaker: But the way that he does it is so precise.
Speaker: And I don't have the patience for that sort of, um, craft making at all.
Speaker: It's almost like a,
Speaker: a reminder to have patience when I look at his work.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: And you mentioned that you met him in a particularly interesting setting.
Speaker: How did that come about?
Speaker: Yes, so the gallerist, Emily Erdmans, reached out to me when she was planning an exhibition of Thomas's work and asked if I would help design the exhibition itself.
Speaker: When I was going over the references that Thomas cites as his inspiration, it just clicked immediately, like we are on the same page here.
Speaker: He's referencing
Speaker: Egyptian artifacts and at the same time referencing like
Speaker: the album art of New War.
Speaker: And we wanted to do some sort of brightly colored neoclassical inspired mishmash.
Speaker: Is that a technical term?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: I learned that in college.
Speaker: And the box itself has this pattern to it that is sort of like
Speaker: in between verdigris meets abstract expressionist art meets porphyry and the colors came from a Memphis Milano reference that I sort of could clock before Thomas even told me and I had just moved from my old apartment in Brooklyn to where I'm living now in Manhattan and
Speaker: I had spent a ton of time hand painting this really colorful terrazzo pattern on the walls in my old apartment.
Speaker: And I felt kind of sad to leave that behind.
Speaker: So the colors in this box remind me of it in this very special way that, you know, we develop these attachments to objects
Speaker: in all sorts of ways for different sentimental reasons.
Speaker: And this was almost like a sentimental reason that happened by chance.
Speaker: He didn't paint it inspired by the walls in my apartment.
Speaker: It was just serendipitous.
Speaker: Right, right.
Speaker: And then I texted him the other day, knowing that I was going to talk about this on the podcast.
Speaker: And I asked him, you know, what was the specific inspiration for the profile of this box?
Speaker: Because I thought that he was going to say it was like something neoclassical or something specific from Egypt.
Speaker: And he texted me a picture of the 17th century Dutch hat, which was not what I expected at all, which
Speaker: is what i love about you know engaging with creators who are alive as much as i love vintage and antique things i love collaborating with people who are working through contemporary lenses but looking to the past in a similar way that i do or maybe in a totally different way that i would never have thought of
Speaker: Yeah, so it's a really interesting piece because it has this historical reference, which you might think of as sophisticated and serene and austere, but actually it's just comical.
Speaker: It almost looks like a Smurf hat.
Speaker: It's these super conical Dutch hats that I guess were very stylish back in the day.
Speaker: But that's the historic connection, which I find really entertaining.
Speaker: And it makes me wonder, like, if you were designing a room around this box, or at least with this box as one of the core elements of that room, you know, how would you think about incorporating that?
Speaker: How would the box influence the choices that you're making about that room?
Speaker: Yeah, it's very much a curious object.
Speaker: It's very much deserving of being on display.
Speaker: Right now I have it on my bookcase, which coincidentally,
Speaker: is something that i am working on with thomas um i've got i mean i know this is sacrilege to the curious objects podcast because it's a much maligned object but i um out of necessity i have uh built a large bookcase of four ikea billy bookcases but
Speaker: Let me caveat that with how we are using it.
Speaker: I lined the inside of each shelf with silk moray wallpaper, and I'm going to paint the whole thing to look like an antique finish.
Speaker: And I'm going to have Thomas design some hand-painted painting.
Speaker: paper fronts for the doors.
Speaker: And by the end, you will not recognize this as an Ikea billy bookcase.
Speaker: Or my life depends on it.
Speaker: Yeah, I was going to say, I can't believe you admitted to us on air that it started life as an Ikea bookcase when we see pictures of it in a magazine.
Speaker: We're never going to be aware.
Speaker: Unless that's part of the fun story behind it.
Speaker: Maybe I'll take pride in it.
Speaker: Well, I was just recently reading, um, the book about Donridge by Hutton Wilkinson and Wendy Goodman and Tony Duquette's house looks like it's full of the same objects that he would put in like Palazzo Brandolini, but a lot of the objects he made himself because he was a set decorator.
Speaker: And if he couldn't afford the real thing, he would make it.
Speaker: And that's why I'm so interested in, I don't like to think of myself as a DIYer.
Speaker: I almost think of myself more as like Dr. Frankenstein.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: um like reanimating something that is a little worse for wear and putting a new spin on it or putting together a bunch of different ideas that are maybe a little incongruous um which is maybe why i liked the film poor thing so much if you watch it that's a major plot point but anyway um
Speaker: In terms of decorating around this object, I worked for the designer Nick Olson for eight years.
Speaker: And his design process always started with one thing that had an interesting color combination in it, which sometimes he would call a hero fabric.
Speaker: Or it would maybe be an antique carpet, something that has more than just two colors to it, which this box has.
Speaker: And that is how you successfully create a decorating scheme, in my experience, in my training.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And this box has pops of teal blue and orange and yellow.
Speaker: And the base is not a crisp white.
Speaker: It's like a tobacco stained ivory sort of color.
Speaker: So I think I would try to bring in some
Speaker: something antique, something old, something that's not a pure crisp white, and then maybe some large abstract expressionist artwork that speaks to the way that Thomas applies the paint to the paper, sort of like a splatter technique.
Speaker: But I don't like things to be too matchy matchy.
Speaker: So I think
Speaker: Maybe distilling the different elements of the box into different elements that would coordinate with it around the room is how I would approach it.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Matchy matchy is another technical term, right?
Speaker: Yes, that's on the NCIDQ.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: We're learning a lot today.
Speaker: And so, I mean, you mentioned earlier that you think of yourself as something of a travel agent, more so than say a stylist.
Speaker: And that storytelling really plays a central role in your approach to design.
Speaker: And this box, obviously, you've already started to tell us a bit about the sort of fantastic and very personal story behind that.
Speaker: But what does that mean to be a travel agent?
Speaker: Well, in college, before I found interior design, I sort of was dabbling with the thought of being a set designer for film.
Speaker: And I
Speaker: that approach hasn't really left me.
Speaker: The idea that every element of a room has to have a reason why you put it there.
Speaker: And if we're taking the travel agent analogy again, it's like, I am wondering what kind of experience my client wants to have when they're in the space and the way that a travel agent might go
Speaker: to this destination in advance and do the research and meet the locals and try to edit, um,
Speaker: a trip there that has the best of every, you know, restaurant, shopping experience, historical visit, etc.
Speaker: I like to think of myself like I've gone into the market, so to speak, and I've done the research and I've talked to the experts and the locals and I'm bringing you
Speaker: the pieces that I think will give you the best kind of experience you're looking for.
Speaker: Like, I don't really consider myself, I don't really aspire to ever be the connoisseur of one specific specialty.
Speaker: I love talking to people who are connoisseurs in their field.
Speaker: And maybe it's because I love to talk
Speaker: I just like, you know, I like having that's why I live in New York City.
Speaker: I don't like watching
Speaker: If I have to watch another Zoom, I'm going to start crying.
Speaker: I like to be out in the world.
Speaker: I like to talk to people who are animated when they're telling me about why something is so special.
Speaker: I'm mostly inspired by people who either get really excited about something really obscure and weird or people who are keeping...
Speaker: a craft alive.
Speaker: My best friends are textile designers and watching them work through how a new design is going to be woven by someone who's working on a loom that's 100 years old.
Speaker: Like to me, that's so fun to listen in on.
Speaker: And I may be a master of none, but I'm interested in talking to people who do have a mastery of one specific period or craft.
Speaker: Yeah, well, so in that vein, could you tell me about a time that you incorporated a historic object or some kind of historic inspiration into a design that you worked on?
Speaker: Yeah, well, I designed the primary bedroom suite at the Brooklyn Heights Designer Show House a little over a year ago.
Speaker: And that was a really fun exercise in getting to design a fantasy space because it wasn't really for a person who was going to live there.
Speaker: It was a show house that was only open for six weeks.
Speaker: So I...
Speaker: decided that my imaginary client would be the fashion designer Elsa Schiaparelli because I've always loved her work.
Speaker: And she was living this really exciting life in Paris during the height of French Art Deco.
Speaker: But also, she was collaborating with a lot of the great surrealist artists.
Speaker: And I would argue that her designs were surrealist works of art in themselves.
Speaker: And that was such like a rich starting point for me to do some research and incorporate elements where from the material on the wall to a tiny
Speaker: piece of jewelry in the walk-in closet.
Speaker: Everything that I put there had like a story behind it.
Speaker: I almost wish that the show house went on for longer so I could have like answered more questions when visitors came by because people would, you know, ask me a question an hour later.
Speaker: They'd say like, okay, well, thanks for telling us so much.
Speaker: We got to go to the rest of the house.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: And do you see this with your clients that they're sort of seeking out or craving objects that tell stories that reach into the past, you know, across the centuries?
Speaker: I think so.
Speaker: I think that you have to get a read on what a client is looking for.
Speaker: Um, sometimes they want you to re contextualize something that they've had for a long time that they're really connected to already.
Speaker: But other times I think that some clients are looking for me to re contextualize something that they've had for a long time that already has a lot of meaning for them.
Speaker: or maybe they've been given this heirloom that doesn't really mean that much to them but if we incorporate like a new fabric that will recontextualize it in a way that feels like it appeals to their own sense of style um that's all you need to build like a connection where there wasn't already one with an heirloom um other times i think that
Speaker: when I am just bringing objects to a client and telling them why I'm excited about it, that translates in the same way where I love listening to, you know, an antiques dealer describing why something special or a contemporary artist explaining their process to me.
Speaker: I almost feel like I'm an editor where I am explaining to the client, this is why this should matter to you.
Speaker: I see, right.
Speaker: That's fascinating.
Speaker: You're like the antiques whisperer.
Speaker: When did making plans get this complicated?
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Speaker: Yeah, I can say from experience that dealers like myself, we often need someone like you to help us.
Speaker: Because on the one hand, you have the geeky passion and the deep-seated specialization and connoisseurship and the people who just absolutely nerd out over the shape of the OG on the foot of that
Speaker: And then on the other hand, you have people who maybe have some vague idea of interest in historical design, who, you know, visit old houses when they travel and enjoy it, but who aren't necessarily diving into the most arcane scholarly texts on the very specific details of this maker or that workshop and so on.
Speaker: And trying to bridge the gap between those interests is really important and not trivial.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I don't think that most people want to live in a period room.
Speaker: And I don't think that that's a very modern way to live anyway.
Speaker: I know that on a past podcast, you talked about Walter Benjamin's, you know,
Speaker: art in the age of mechanical reproduction and getting that title correct.
Speaker: And of course that was something I read in undergrad, like everybody.
Speaker: Um, but I think that it's, I'm not really interested in creating a space that feels like every object is either from a specific time period or referencing it or is, um, reproduction.
Speaker: Like I, I,
Speaker: need something to feel.
Speaker: I think that it's important that things are in a modern context and put together with a point of view.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: There's something dishonest about trying to just recreate the past for the sake of it, because there are ways to incorporate things from the past in a fresh way.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, I also think there's a related misconception, which is that, you know, a quote unquote period room from, say, 1780 should be filled with all objects that were made in the 1780s.
Speaker: Whereas in reality, nobody in the 1780s had rooms full of nothing but pieces made in the 1780s.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: You know, they had new pieces, they had old pieces.
Speaker: I mean, there are, of course, there are exceptions.
Speaker: You'll find people who are just laser focused on some very...
Speaker: narrow aesthetic moment or period.
Speaker: But by and large, you know, we've always lived with a hodgepodge with a, you know, a mismatch of pieces that, you know, we've made it work, you know, for centuries.
Speaker: We've kind of made that eclecticism work.
Speaker: So why should today be any different?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And I think that a space should say more about who you are and how you live and experiences that you've had compared to your scholarly interests.
Speaker: To me, that's maybe part of who you are, but that's not who you are.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: So I think we're sort of veering into the direction of practical advice for listeners, which I'm very excited about because I could use some of this myself.
Speaker: So I want to ask just to let's kick this off.
Speaker: with a question that I've been thinking about, which is if you're moving into a new place, a new house, new apartment, and you're starting from scratch, maybe you've brought some things from your old place, but maybe you're looking for a fresh start.
Speaker: You're not quite sure yet what you want to do with each room.
Speaker: What's the better approach?
Speaker: Should you sort of sit down and try to plan the whole thing out, come up with an overarching idea of how each room is going to work and then start to look for elements to fill those rooms up?
Speaker: Or should you maybe start from the other end and acquire some things that you find interesting, put them into rooms, see how they look and start to build the rooms up from below that way?
Speaker: I would say that it's taken me many years of gaining experience in the field to like have built up the muscle that allows me to think in 3D.
Speaker: And most people
Speaker: who don't spend years of their life designing spaces, find it really discouraging if they have this self-imposed feeling like I need to do it all at once.
Speaker: Like in a month, this needs to be done.
Speaker: And each room needs to speak to one another and be coordinated.
Speaker: And if I can't do it all at once, then I'm just going to give up.
Speaker: I think that for the ordinary person decorating their home, starting from an object or starting from a specific rug or a textile or something is the best way to go.
Speaker: And I would say starting with a rug is also a practical way to start because...
Speaker: Bringing a rug in after the furniture is there is a huge pain in the ass.
Speaker: Yeah, I can confirm experience.
Speaker: And I think something that has more than two colors to it is just a safe formula to start with because then you can pull together a scheme.
Speaker: A hero fabric.
Speaker: Yes, hero fabric.
Speaker: So coming at it from the other angle, let's say that you've been in your place for years and you're not moving anywhere.
Speaker: You're not starting from scratch, but you are starting to feel a little bit stale in the space.
Speaker: You don't necessarily want to throw everything out and, you know, throw the baby out with the bathwater, but you want some kind of change.
Speaker: Like what are some practical ways that you could think about shaking it up?
Speaker: Well, something that I am always reminding myself to do is to sort of do...
Speaker: an audit of how intentional you've been with your accumulation of objects.
Speaker: You know, specifically as someone who's shopping all the time for my job, sometimes I pick something up because it feels like, oh, I'll never see this again.
Speaker: And I don't know why I bought it.
Speaker: a month later.
Speaker: Sometimes people hold on to things because they were given as a gift and, oh, I'm afraid that if this friend ever comes over, they're going to ask where that object is that they gave me three years ago.
Speaker: Like, are you holding on to objects without a good intention behind them?
Speaker: I think that another great way to be excited and inspired when you enter your home, even if you've been there a long time, is to not necessarily even buy new art, but move around the art that you have.
Speaker: Look at it in a different way, literally.
Speaker: And I mean, I don't want to tell people, oh, you need to be constantly collecting contemporary art, but just going out in the world and trying to, you know, go to a gallery, chat up an artist.
Speaker: you don't need to buy a massive painting and redesign your whole room around it.
Speaker: But, um, in the same way that you can, you know, find something antique or vintage, that's not a million dollars, but something that, um, is inspiring because I think the feeling that people can't put a name to is,
Speaker: I mean, you called it stale.
Speaker: To me, I would say uninspiring.
Speaker: Like I want to enter my home and be inspired.
Speaker: And sometimes that takes a little bit of shopping.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And what inspires you and what inspires someone else is obviously could be very different.
Speaker: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: Yeah, but shopping your own home is another great way to, you know, like I said, moving things around can make an object feel entirely new.
Speaker: Yeah, that's a great idea, actually.
Speaker: Maybe I'll do that this afternoon.
Speaker: So this is just another question that has special relevance to many of us here in New York, which is how do you go about, and this is actually a question that a listener of mine was interested in, and it made me realize this is so relevant to so many of us.
Speaker: How do you think about outfitting a rental apartment?
Speaker: Because there are limits on how much you want to invest in features that you're not going to be able to take with you or that may not work as well in a different space.
Speaker: But obviously, it's still your home and you still want it to be inspiring.
Speaker: How do you think about that?
Speaker: I may be an extreme example of this, but I believe in painting a rental apartment.
Speaker: I know that that's not for everyone.
Speaker: I know some people see it as too much of a sunk cost, so to speak.
Speaker: In my experience, I think most landlords are not paying very close attention to what you're doing.
Speaker: I would rather ask forgiveness than permission.
Speaker: But if you don't want to paint, I think that the best
Speaker: Most immediate way to make a room feel less like it's, you know, rental white or rental beige is hanging large artwork on the walls.
Speaker: I think people don't go big enough, literally, with artwork.
Speaker: And it's something that you can take to your next home.
Speaker: It's something that grounds a space, which is hard to do in an all-white room.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: But I mean, it also could be the perfect environment for displaying art.
Speaker: I mean, look at most art galleries, they're white cubes.
Speaker: Sure.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: I suppose textiles are another strategy to covering large swaths of the wall.
Speaker: I have friends like Anthony Amiano, who's this amazing interior stylist.
Speaker: His apartment in Bushwick is tented.
Speaker: I think that textiles are a great way to incorporate texture as well.
Speaker: I think that's something that people overlook.
Speaker: the most, even professional interior designers sometimes overlook elements of different textures and how that creates visual interest.
Speaker: For example, if you're, if you're afraid of color, um, you can still incorporate textures that are all neutral, like a neutral palette and a variety of textures to me is just as interesting as a brightly colored room.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's, I like that.
Speaker: It's a really interesting line of thinking and opens up so many possibilities.
Speaker: And speaking of being afraid of color.
Speaker: So I actually took the plunge finally about a year ago, and I've been in my apartment for a very long time, but I finally painted it and I
Speaker: I'm so proud of you.
Speaker: Oh, thanks.
Speaker: I have to say it was terrifying.
Speaker: I mean, that sounds silly to say, right?
Speaker: But I picked out some pretty bold colors and I thought, oh my God, am I going to hate this?
Speaker: And in the end, I didn't, you know, I love it.
Speaker: But it, you know, it makes me think like, how many of these risky choices could I be making that I'm, I'm not because I'm scared of it, or that I maybe I, my brain isn't even allowing me to think about it, because it seems so, so risky.
Speaker: Yeah, sometimes I almost feel like I have to do a forensic psychological excavation into why someone has fear connected with something like a paint color.
Speaker: Or like, I don't know, sometimes I just I use this phrase decorating from a place of fear, like when someone does an accent wall because they're afraid to paint the whole room.
Speaker: Or, you know, sometimes people have this visceral aversion to something that they grew up with.
Speaker: Like, oh, I could never do a Persian rug because that was in my grandma's house.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Like, it's so funny how you have to interrogate why you don't,
Speaker: think something will look good.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: So you're saying being a designer is a little bit like being a therapist.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And sometimes it's like being a marriage counselor or like, yeah.
Speaker: A financial advisor.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: So if you are taking some of these bold moves, or maybe if you're shying away from them, but you're making other choices about your space, what are some warning signs that maybe you should be looking out for that you might be making choices you'll regret or doing something that is going to start to feel uninspired or stale quickly?
Speaker: What would you keep an eye out for?
Speaker: Well,
Speaker: It goes back to the idea of decorating from a place of fear.
Speaker: I think that sometimes you have to trust the process.
Speaker: Like, for instance, when I worked for Nick Olson, we would have the ceiling painted before the wallpaper was installed and the client would walk in and just see the bright color on the ceiling and say, oh, God, what are we doing?
Speaker: And you kind of have to trust that
Speaker: it will work once the rest of the room is done.
Speaker: Um, like I think decorating from a place of fear, an example would be saying, Oh, um, I think I'm going to get sick of this piece of art.
Speaker: So let me do something a little bit safer.
Speaker: But, you know, like I said, if you get sick of something, you could move it to a different
Speaker: sell it and get something else.
Speaker: Like, you know, it's like this quote I love from the original Project Runway that I was obsessed with in high school.
Speaker: Michael Kors once said, lighten up, it's just fashion.
Speaker: It's like, you know, we're just decorating.
Speaker: We're not doing anything.
Speaker: Like we're not doing nuclear fission here.
Speaker: Nothing is so permanent unless it's like a really big investment for you, then maybe, you know,
Speaker: that's a different case, but you know, painting the walls and your rental is not the end of the world.
Speaker: If you decide you don't like it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You can go back.
Speaker: You can, it is, it is.
Speaker: That's what white paint is for.
Speaker: And so, and then on the other side, like what are some positive signs that you might be on the right track?
Speaker: I think,
Speaker: A good way to know that your home is reflecting who you are and is inspiring.
Speaker: Um, is it's someone comes over, they start pointing things out and asking you about them.
Speaker: And it's like a conversation starter.
Speaker: It's like, um,
Speaker: you feel excited telling your guests about specific things in your home.
Speaker: I think that's a great way to connect with other people.
Speaker: And I know that on this podcast, you're always talking about how objects provide connection between people.
Speaker: And, you know, that's kind of how I feel like with this box from Thomas Englehart.
Speaker: When we met,
Speaker: I was almost in an uncomfortable position like, oh, I don't want to step on any toes.
Speaker: I want to give him this exhibition that he's envisioning.
Speaker: And as soon as we started talking about his references,
Speaker: we realized like, oh, we're like kindred spirits.
Speaker: We're totally on the same page.
Speaker: Like I put together a playlist for the installation and it was like, we were talking about every song and talking about the pyramid club and like everything just felt right.
Speaker: And it was a friendship forged on visual references, but also music and like these things
Speaker: material parts of culture that are so culturally significant.
Speaker: It's fantastic.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I love that you brought it back to the box at the end.
Speaker: It's my media training.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: Love it.
Speaker: Well, Tara McCauley, thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker: This was a lot of fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker: I could chat about objects all day and I often do.
Speaker: Excellent.
Speaker: Well, we'll have to get you back on to do more of it sometime.
Speaker: Today's episode was edited and produced by Sammy Delati with social media and web support by Sarah Bellotta.
Speaker: Sierra Holt is our digital media and editorial associate.
Speaker: Our music is ByteRabRabbit.
Speaker: And I'm Ben Miller.
