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00:00:01
Coaching Is Life Changing
80 Plays6 years ago
K and I discuss coaching, how we approach it, different kinds of coaching, trainers vs. coaches, lessons learned, etc. We could probably do the next 10 podcasts just on coaching, but for your sake we won't. This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the business of changing lives.
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Anecdotes
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello? Hello. What was that? That was a yawn. We're back. And you cut your hair. Looks good. Short. It's always good when someone just identifies the most obvious thing. It looks good. Anyway, why did you cut your hair?
00:00:32
Speaker
I'm just tired of having long hair. Oh, come on. What's the real answer? You'll never know. Anyway, why did you cut your hair? Yeah, I just, I always had it up. I never actually styled it. So it was nice to have, it just felt like it was like making my face look long and drawn out and it felt good to cut it and feel like a little bit of uplifting, you know, not
00:01:00
Speaker
dragging me down. My hair was weighing me down. Literally. Rapunzel. You started calling me Rapunzel. That's why I cut my hair. Right. I forgot about that. I think it looks good. I like it. Thanks. Okay.
Understanding Coaching vs Consulting
00:01:18
Speaker
So.
00:01:20
Speaker
We're going to talk about coaching this, this week. And I think a couple podcasts ago, we sort of said, Oh, we need to talk about that. Maybe that's another episode. And then I think we did that like two weeks in a row. Yeah. I think there was a episode where we were identifying the role of like a coach versus a consultant, which is a mentor. And then there was like a rabbit hole. We could have gone down with coaching and we're like, we'll talk about that on another episode. So here we are. So here we are.
00:01:50
Speaker
with a reasonable certainty that we identified what we were going to the other than new rabbit hole. Yeah. I don't think it makes sense to talk about the different roles though. No, I just meant that's where that came from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying for, for now for today, but we're going to talk about, um, coaching.
00:02:11
Speaker
why we got into coaching, what coaching kind of means, different approaches, like a more personal experience with the topic. Because I think it is kind of like, what does it mean? Sure. And I think a lot of people, we try to provide people something they can use. And I think there's a lot of people saying they're coaches out there, I mean, including us.
Qualities and Experiences of a Good Coach
00:02:40
Speaker
I think giving people arming them with some of our, at least our thought of like what makes a coach so that it can help people also differentiate or distinguish if they're looking for a coach, um, you know, what might be a good fit for them. Not just anybody that hangs a sign that says they're a coach that might not be as valuable. What do you think the most important thing for a coach is?
00:03:09
Speaker
Um, maybe not. That's kind of, I think from like working honestly with you and now Kyla, like, I think if you had asked me that a few years ago, maybe it would be different. But I think for sure your, my experience of your work and your coaching and then seeing it, you know, not via you being my husband, but through having a coach. Um, yeah, it's really that like,
00:03:40
Speaker
not giving you the answers, but providing you like that balance of helping the client provide, like find the answers, guiding them, but not giving them.
Coaching in Various Contexts
00:03:54
Speaker
So, you know, I think, yeah, I guess I would say that's kind of the number one. Without that, then what's the rest?
00:04:04
Speaker
Right. Consultancy, really just kind of what it would be. Um, yeah, I'd agree with that. I think that that's super important. And, you know, I think the, my experiences with coaches have ranged anywhere from.
00:04:22
Speaker
the field you know soccer I had a ton of basketball I had a bunch as well but you know the real ones were on the soccer field on the sidelines and then obviously in the military that no one called themselves a coach right you know really in the military
00:04:46
Speaker
You know, every, well, I guess what's funny, like the cadre, but that comes with an entire different set of things, but you know, you're, you're 100. And one of the amazing things about it is that you're, you are around coaches and people are doing some amazing coaching, um, without even knowing it.
00:05:04
Speaker
And nine times out of 10, they were the best leaders as well, because coaching is a form of leadership. I view them really as synonyms. And it's the same, to your point, it's the same thing that, if you just tell somebody what to do, they're gonna forget it nine times out of 10.
00:05:24
Speaker
so you're just hoping that it's luck that they are able to repeat what they did and they definitely can't tell anybody else so like it kind of like it kind of stops the chain stops there yeah I guess like it helps to think of it like an example I think nutrition is like a great example there's a lot of in the world of nutrition there's a lot of nutrition coaches
00:05:50
Speaker
It doesn't say that the person is going to forget what they're told, but if it's just about eat this, eat this much of that, here are your numbers. That is not a coaching role because there's nothing that's a one way conversation. It's I'm going to tell you what to do and then you're going to either do it or not do it.
00:06:10
Speaker
And that's it. It's very black and white, and there's no interaction. So I do kind of, from that side, some of those categories of coaches. And I guess you could say the same for a CrossFit coach. If I just tell you, do this, do that, and there's no, OK, how does that feel? Or what do you think? Or what could you do differently? It's just, again, a one-way street. That person's either going to take it or leave it. It might work. It might not work.
00:06:39
Speaker
But that's not that's not really an interactive relationship that's affecting the individual. No. And I think that at the core and, you know, everybody has their own interpretation of coaching and a lot of people probably have the same interpretation. So I'm not saying any of this is necessarily original. But like the involvement is such a huge piece. Right. And if you are not involving as a coach, if you're not involving
00:07:08
Speaker
your client in the discovery process for whatever the solution is or the idea or the creativity or whatever you are not coaching them and as a client if you are not involved in coming up with like you also have a responsibility as well like this isn't just like hey blame point the finger and blame the coach like as a client like
00:07:31
Speaker
If you don't do anything, then you're going to be limited. At what point do you think the coach is going to live your life? Because they're not. He or she is not going to. And if you think that that's the case, then you know. So looking at involvement as a litmus for coaches
Challenges and Philosophies in Coaching
00:07:46
Speaker
in your life. And they could be informal or formal. But don't you think that people, I think what's challenging about that is if that's what we think is where there's value in coaching involvement from both sides.
00:08:00
Speaker
but it's so much easier to just get told what to do. Yeah. So I think that's where it's not as popular. So if like myself and another coach are pitching somebody for like, they want to improve their fitness, they want to improve their nutrition. They want to lose a significant amount of weight. They want to be healthy. And my process looks like.
00:08:24
Speaker
a year and they're going to have to ask themselves some questions and I'm not going to give them all the answers or the other person's going to say, I'm going to give you the diet. All you got to do is follow it. That looks a lot more attractive. That looks easier.
00:08:38
Speaker
They don't have to do as much work. So I think that's where it's, and then the success isn't lasting. They're not actually, whatever that thing is they're looking for, they're chasing the wrong, they're chasing the objective. They're not actually discovering what they're looking for, but initially it sounds great.
00:08:56
Speaker
And it's like, let's get it done. Let's get it done quick. That kind of promising of results and like, I'll give you the answers is, is attractive, is, is kind of a deceptive thing. It's, it's very attractive. Right. And therein lies the entire issue with human or human interaction services, be that fitness and nutrition, mindset, leadership, lifestyle, parenting, whatever.
00:09:23
Speaker
You know, therein lies the entire issue because what's attractive, you know, I forget where I heard this or from whom, but like people want things wall and Walmart at Walmart prices, McDonald's fast and Costco abundance or something like that. People want things fast, cheap and easy. It's definitely not. I definitely butchered that. But the point is we want it now. We want it for cheap and we want it to be easy. Yeah. And it's like that's fine.
00:09:51
Speaker
But if you're ordering a fucking deck of cards that has no meaning in your life or something like you know I mean like it's but we're talking about something that is Life-changing right your nutrition
00:10:05
Speaker
Here, we'll start with this. Your relationship with yourself is life-changing. That's it. I mean, what else is there? And if you want that, like, at a discount? Yeah. Like, what is... Well, or easy. I mean, that's what's crazy, though, is you look at people, what they'll spend on a car. I mean, we know people in our lives that will
00:10:26
Speaker
really treat the car a nice car like really well maybe not even drive the car as much like really take good care of the car and they value like okay there's a price I paid this car it was a nice car it's a good car it's an expensive car but they're not gonna pay for food maybe that because
00:10:50
Speaker
they're not going to put themselves at that value for them. They want fast, cheap and easy. But so it's not just like everything in people's lives are fast, cheap and easy. People will choose nice clothes, nice cars. These material things put them out of place. That's like, well, that's a luxury item and I'll spend money on that. I don't want the cheapest car, but for themselves they won't. And it's like, what's that about? I think it's about,
00:11:15
Speaker
Material items say something about you. It means there's a value structure there people value Whatever outside of price tag, you know and Often with materialism people purchase things not because of what value it's going to provide them but what it is going to project about them and you know, you don't have to
00:11:43
Speaker
Like like that kind of easy. I mean, I guess in some ways, even though it's not cheap, it's easy because all it takes. I am buying this pair of Lululemon shorts and and this Lululemon outfit or this Mercedes car or, you know, whatever, whatever, because the person that I want to project does this. And that person is someone who is
00:12:07
Speaker
active-minded is kind of at a certain socio-economic class. Sure, you're creating an identity through these things. All I'm saying is people do that with material things, but they won't do that. They're not as apt to do that with like, I am the kind of person that gets up and goes to the gym. What does that take to be that person? That's all I'm saying is fast, cheap, and easy. Often people want that as it relates to their fitness or themselves or coaching, but it's
00:12:37
Speaker
they won't have that lowest standard for material things. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where, you know,
Personal Growth Through Coaching
00:12:49
Speaker
That's where I think that in, in coaching, um, and being coached too is an incredibly, um, you just have stuff on your hand from the marker. It's an incredibly enlightening experience for, for yourself. Like how do you take to being coached? And there's plenty of people who didn't play team sports or yes, you not a team sport athlete.
00:13:20
Speaker
But we're working on it. No, but have never had that component. So how would you then? Yeah. Of course you're going to struggle with maybe getting coaching or good coaching, because it's not easy to be coached. But anyway, yeah, it's a good point. So then I feel like when it comes to coaching, or at least for the coaching that we do,
00:13:49
Speaker
It is kind of tricky because it's not compartmentalized. Like it's very, we know enough to know that everything is pretty much related. And we do coaching at the gym, obviously, in the classes. We do nutrition stuff, we do one-on-one stuff. And then we do between the ears coaching, same thing, kind of one-on-one,
00:14:18
Speaker
involving physical stuff, not involving physical stuff, all of the differences. And it's a it's a challenge to kind of cast a a large net over and like working with people and just calling it coaching. Yeah. And so what are your thoughts on like the different categories sort of or if you couldn't if you couldn't say coaching, what would you say?
00:14:48
Speaker
Like in other words, like an example would be like teaching versus. Guiding or what do you mean? I'm not sure. Yeah, I guess just, I guess instead of saying like, well, we coach people using like a blanket term, because, because each of those things there's a, there's, I think it comes down to like, I guess when I look at coaching as an umbrella and then when you start to look at in those categories. So for example, the gym in a class.
00:15:17
Speaker
that coaching versus me coaching a one-on-one through the same kind of workout. The difference there is obviously like working with one person, the involvement or the depth to which you're able to focus on that one person. So what's that? I don't know. I don't know what the name is. So I feel like it's like coaching in a group class
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's not as personal. But I don't want to say it's just teaching because it's not. There is checking in with people getting that conversation going two way.
00:15:55
Speaker
street communication, like what's happening? How are you feeling? So it's not like that's thrown away in a class. Right. But what I feel like is being said is where we where we throw one blanket answer over coaching. So, hey, we coach. Yeah. It sort of becomes, I think, a bit of a cookie cutter type thing. Right. And at the heart of coaching, I believe, is flexibility and adaptability to whom you are coaching or how many you are coaching or the context upon which you're coaching.
00:16:21
Speaker
And so I guess my reason for asking that question was to kind of highlight the point that like, yeah, as a coach, you have to be able to
00:16:31
Speaker
to change and to evolve and to adapt really, not necessarily evolve, but like adapt to what the needs are for that engagement. And so, you know, that's one of the things where I think when we look at coaching or when we look at people that want coaching, considering like, okay, what is the environment? What is the situation? What is the context? What's the reason you're talking?
00:16:57
Speaker
Mm hmm. And then looking because I think the thing is like, OK, great, like I want coaching. Where do I look for a coach? Like, I think that's a really challenging thing. Obviously, it depends on what they want coaching on. Of course. Yeah, I mean, and I guess when you're talking, I'm thinking about like. We've had a number of people come to us who maybe want to become who aren't part of our organization, who want our help to become better coaches in the CrossFit world.
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah. And it hasn't gone real well. Most of them, most of them, most of them come. We look at where they're at. And I think because it's not a, I think sometimes like what people think they want to our point of like what coaching is and having to be adaptable, both as a coach and a client. Like I don't know why I'm thinking about this, but just that there's a lot of people out there that
00:17:57
Speaker
want to think that it looks a certain way and it's and then when it's like oh okay well it doesn't have to do with how many times you call that person's name we have to go deeper and like it's gonna take more time and why how do you adapt to this group versus that group and people just don't want to take that time that's that's too much that's I don't know just just tell me how to like
00:18:19
Speaker
Come on, get out of it. Yeah, just tell me how to like get the job. Yeah. And it's like, well, that's that's not that doesn't work that way. No, that reminds me of. Yeah, because I guess one of the things and this is where like every coach and if you're and if you are listening and you want to become a coach here, you are a coach and you're developing as a coach.
00:18:41
Speaker
Obviously like we're you know, we're all in this together and we're not saying this is how you do it process but like from from having oh, I don't know 25 years of like really good coaching and being in it for it's the longest it's the most experience on anything I have is with coaching being coached and coaching and
00:19:08
Speaker
one of the things that you need to think about is like to what degree are you going to challenge and provide enlightenment not that you're going to bestow upon this person but you're going to facilitate your client to achieve some form of enlightening enlightenment and you know not in the Buddhist sense but like
00:19:31
Speaker
Oh, now I see it. Because what people come to you with and say the first thing they want is usually so surface and it's paper thin. Very rarely do people come in and say, hey, I have an unhealthy relationship with myself because of bup, bup, bup, bup, bup. Or like I have. Yeah, it's like I want to lose five pounds. Yeah. It's like, hey, kind of here's what I'm sort of hiding behind. And so understanding that as a coach,
00:20:02
Speaker
Or at least my our approach is like you are teaching somebody something about themselves. Right. To learn well more about themselves. Yeah. You're providing an experience for that person to learn about themselves. I get it like teaching someone but that sounds almost like I'm going to tell you. Yeah. You're providing the you're providing the opportunity for them to learn something about themselves. And I think it is a perspective issue. It's hard for you to
00:20:33
Speaker
you know, you have your perspective that you've had your whole life. It can be, it's, it's helpful to have that outside perspective to provide some questions and some thoughts that maybe you wouldn't normally consider on your own and looking at it a different way. Cause you're, you haven't done. Yeah. And it might be, and this is, you know, one of the things that I've had experienced with, with individual clients, not coaching CrossFit, but like, Hey, I want to pursue something in my life.
00:21:01
Speaker
Like the challenge is always in any, in like, in these coach training programs and everything, they tell you like you, it cannot be your agenda. Sure. As the coach. As the coach. Yeah. And 100% agree with that. And you have to be independent and you have to be objective. And that's some such part of the value with the role of a coach. I mean, that's. Right. If you look at a class, someone doing a movement.
00:21:24
Speaker
If you're trying to get them, like it can't be your agenda for what you want out of that person to, to get to, like they might have no one, they don't might not have the same goals at all or whatever. It's like, you have to really work with where they're at with their body, with what they're feeling. Like you can't impose on them your, yeah, your goals or your athletic goals or how your body feels like it's theirs.
00:21:52
Speaker
Yeah. So one of the things that, you know, is important is to not also jump to the conclusion that you have their answer.
00:22:03
Speaker
because you don't. And if, I think it's impossible not to have an instinctual reaction, like, especially as a newer coach, like, no, I want you to do this. Or, oh, this is what you need. Or just, just do this. Like, just, you know, just don't, just don't go to Wendy's or whatever. And it's like, yeah. Like that's, it's not for you to answer. It's for, it's for them to.
00:22:27
Speaker
and potentially as a coach you're going to question and raise awareness and enlightenment of the fact that why they came to you they actually don't want it and it might seem to be very um
00:22:47
Speaker
It might seem to be counterproductive. So there is this, that, um, that girl who want to go to the Naval Academy. Okay. Somebody reached out, heard I was a Green Beret, did training, did mindset stuff, blah, blah, blah, coaching. So, you know, she's in high school and said, sure, yeah, we can first meet to talk.
00:23:11
Speaker
So what do you want to do? I want to, why are we, why are we talking right now? I want to go to the Naval Academy. Okay. Why is that important? Well, I want to, you know, serve and I want to like, and like struggling to kind of come up with an answer. And like, that's a pretty important question to know. Like, why do you want to go to a military Academy? And.
00:23:33
Speaker
I would be lying if I said, okay, if I thought rather, I'm not sure if she's really ready for it or really wants it, but I'm not going to rule her out because she might need somebody to just show her how to cultivate that and how to develop it.
00:23:55
Speaker
You know, I had some some initial impressions as obviously you do but like they're initial impressions. They're not final conclusions So it was like alright if have you taken a PT test yet? She said no and I said, okay And you want to go to the Naval Academy and this and you're willing you're willing to do whatever it takes right kind of that stuff She's like yep, like okay meet me at the gym tomorrow at four in the morning and it was like
00:24:24
Speaker
What? Like I thought, and I was like, if that's what you want, but you're telling me that you want to go to the Naval Academy. I'll meet you at the gym. If it's important to you, then we have to get a baseline. Do you understand? Do you agree that that's something that you, yes, I do. Well, then what's the problem?
00:24:42
Speaker
And but she came and she showed up and she came and I was like, there's no way there's no way she's like I did not think she was gonna show up I figured she was gonna go home Tell her mom and her mom was gonna say that's insane No, like tell this idiot no
00:25:01
Speaker
Cherish it four am at the gym. Like, cool, let's get to work. And that was big. So then was doing some one-on-one training and it took about a month for her to say.
00:25:15
Speaker
I don't, I'm not actually not going to continue coaching with you because my goals have changed. And I, I, what this has taught me is I don't really want to, I don't want to do this. Like there's other people who really want to, and I think there's elements of it that are attractive to me, but I don't really fully understand it. And. Right. Which was valuable. Which is super valuable, you know, which is super valuable and like,
00:25:41
Speaker
Right, and had you in the initial onset said, like, I don't think you want it. The process of her coming to that conclusion. She wouldn't have learned. That's what the value was. And like, what did she learn about herself that she wants to be part of something bigger than herself? She wants to work hard for something that she wants to be disciplined and dedicated.
00:25:59
Speaker
And those are amazing things. And those are things that a service academy can or are like huge in service or military in general. But the but that's not the only place, you know, and so learning those things about yourself and like kind of who you are and who you are not as well is incredibly valuable. So as a coach. Like that's where you have to provide that opportunity
00:26:25
Speaker
independent of your own prius, like presumptions, um, yeah, that, that, that ability to learn, to learn more about yourself and it is not cheap and it is not quick and it is not easy and it takes a ton more work than.
Corporate Coaching Styles and Effectiveness
00:26:42
Speaker
The client's probably going to know, but that's. So, you know, it's come up recently, just a couple of conversations, some opportunities to do like the corporate thing. And so yesterday talking to a member about like, you know, he has had some people come in and talk and the Jocko willing stuff came up and some of that approach or like people who.
00:27:07
Speaker
You know, I would say he probably calls himself a coach. Who? Jaco. A life coach. I mean, don't you think? I doubt he calls himself a life coach. Or not a life coach, but don't you think that's his thing? Coaching people. Yeah. I guess my point is like, where's that line of like, there's people that find that like attractive. Do you think that works for some people? Cause I feel like
00:27:36
Speaker
Sure, of course it does. I mean, that's the that's the amazing thing. There's CrossFit gyms out there that's that are really irresponsible and suck and their people are still getting fitter. I mean, there's like
00:27:51
Speaker
It I'm sure it does work for people. Some people like I think that's the thing with the Jocko stuff is like if somebody's literally never heard something before about like maybe doing something even though you don't want to do it. That can be that is that is a lot. That is amazing for them. You know some of the people that because of where they are maybe in terms of their
00:28:14
Speaker
in terms of their life experiences, who they've been surrounded by or not surrounded by. Um, yeah, it can be a real eye opener for people. And that's where the shock factor I think does play. I don't really, like, I don't really agree with all of that, all his stuff. Um, you know, and I, it's, it's not for not, it's not for, it's not for lack of being at,
00:28:45
Speaker
high levels in the same levels, if not, you know. Anyway, I think that what I'm trying to say is different approaches and different styles work for different people. And so that's where you also, I think, as a coach need to understand like what your identity is as well. And you have to be authentic with it. And that's
00:29:08
Speaker
really challenging. That is like super challenging because knowing like, Hey, I want to, Oh, I like you. I want to work with you. You know, can you, can you, can we like just sit down and chat for four hours and you know, like not actually get into the weeds or not actually do the work. And it's like, yeah, that's not what I do. I'm not a friend. Yeah. And we've had, I mean, it is interesting. The,
00:29:33
Speaker
what people need and like, I definitely, we've experienced that from, you know, what is kind of cool about our situation is, I mean, it hasn't happened a ton because your, your role, your coaching and you do individual coaching much more than I do. But that there's two of us and there's,
00:29:59
Speaker
Differences between how we coach people yeah, so even if we take something like the gym You know where my class or your class. There's people and
00:30:08
Speaker
taking my class that are like really gonna, there's people that are gonna get maybe more out of or connect more with what I'm doing versus you. And that's the same with all the coaches in the gym. Um, but it's nice to, you know, and people say that all the time with, you know, somebody, you could have told someone something a million times and some other coach does it and you're like, Oh my God, are you kidding? Like I've told you that for like three years, but it just takes a different personality or whatever that is for that person to hear it differently.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah. So that's, we've kind of talked generally speaking about coaching and yeah, you know, that kind of a bit. Um, what are, do you have any, do you have like a couple, do you have a couple kind of like aha moments or valuable things that a coach doesn't have to be me? Mm-hmm.
00:31:04
Speaker
because I'm also like, you know, your husband. So that's definitely a complicated thing. But some things, some reception of coaching that you can share with people to just kind of have this be a little bit more tangible. Like a specific. Not saying like, Hey, this is the lesson I learned. So you learn it, but like where a coach is really
00:31:27
Speaker
challenged your beliefs or or led you to learn about yourself has provided has been adaptable has been flexible like some like moments of I mean I definitely think so I've talked about recently starting to work with Kyla who works for strong fit mm-hmm
00:31:47
Speaker
And I think that's been really interesting because it's like a female coach, you know, that's, there's a lot of value I feel like to that. Um, and I guess I can't like, there's probably some specifics, but without getting like super specific, you know, what's funny about like what you initially tell people, I don't like what you want. So I initially saw it after like nutrition coaching with her. Mm-hmm.
00:32:15
Speaker
We don't really talk about nutrition. That would be a waste of an incredible coach to only talk about nutrition. Sure, we know that there's a lot that has to do with nutrition.
00:32:30
Speaker
emotions and all that, but really like what's down and below the surface has for me is like way beyond nutrition. So there's been a couple times though, where I've had a bunch of questions like, well, what about this? What am I supposed to do about that? Or, you know, maybe it's like a workout or a training session where she's given me some guidelines and I don't, this is probably more than the initial stages. And I just want to know, like, just tell me what to do.
00:33:00
Speaker
with regards to like, I don't know, training, maybe it's a training session. Let's talk about like a workout. Like, like, okay.
00:33:09
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, you kind of put me on the spot here for an example. I'm trying to, I don't know what the specifics of this one example I'm thinking are, but whatever it was, she told me, she presented me with like, I want you to go out and do this. Okay. Whether it was feel this way in a training session or experience this. And I wrote back wanting, like, I had a number of questions. Well, what about this? Well, what do you think about that? Should I do this? Should I do that? And her answer was, I could tell you all those answers.
00:33:40
Speaker
But like, what good would that be? And initially I was like, well, what the fuck? But the reality was why, how would that help me for her to tell me her answers or what she thinks my answers are? The value is in me going and figuring that out. And so I definitely connect to that kind of like, just tell me what to do. It's a lot harder. It takes more time. It takes having to make that connection to kind of
00:34:05
Speaker
navigate the way. So I think that's kind of those kinds of things, coupled with you talking about coaching and saying like, yeah, it's being careful to not jump down into like what you're telling the person what to do, giving them advice. That's kind of been an aha for me in terms of like, defining really the coach's value. Yeah, I think it's a great example. And I think it helps people if they're looking for a coach,
00:34:36
Speaker
If they're curious about coaching, if they're whatever, like to kind of manage their expectations a little bit and also like test. Fucking test a coach, honestly, interview the like, yeah. Interview the coach, ask them like, yeah, you know, in order, you know, do it, do it, do it. I mean, one of the things I think when when we did the strong fit coaches week. You know, I think one of the things personally speaking for me coaching people, I
00:35:06
Speaker
make the mistake of taking on a ton of responsibility for that person. Now, sure, you're responsible for your job as a coach. But as we've said, it's kind of a 50-50 thing. And for me, I struggle with feeling like, okay, they're not gonna do the work. I'm gonna do more work now for them because they're not doing the work. And I'm gonna take on the role of like, why aren't they having success? Well, maybe it's something I'm doing.
00:35:32
Speaker
And the reality is if that person and I, it kind of, when I, when I think Richard was talking about it in terms of like a client or maybe a group, but like, as you said, if they're not doing the work.
00:35:47
Speaker
Like what the hell are you here for? Cause I think, but I think that is such a common thing. Like, all right, I hired you. Well, do fix my life. And it's like, no, no, no. Like that's not, I think that is a miss. And that's the challenge I'm still struggling with when people want to work with me. That's just something I have to work with as my identity of a coach to be okay with saying like, this is what I'm going to do. This is what I need you to do. Now, if they don't do it,
00:36:17
Speaker
Okay. I can't do anything until it's like playing chess. Like until you make a move, like there's nothing I can do. Well, I tell this to people when, and just this week or last, um,
00:36:28
Speaker
somebody who wanted to work with me. We had an interview. We talked on the phone or in person, whatever we talked. And they were an athlete, so they kind of understood the analogy.
Coaching Dynamics and Relationships
00:36:39
Speaker
But it was like, you know, as your coach, like, I'm not going to put the uniform on and play with and play and hop onto the field and like play the game for you. Like, that's not this isn't like, hey, watch me do this. Right.
00:36:51
Speaker
I'm on the sidelines, and there's nothing I can do to interfere with and contribute to the game that you are playing in. So what is the game that you are playing? Do you know the opponents? Do you know the kind of rules of the game or the purpose or the intention? They're like, holy shit. I need to do some thinking. Yes, you do. And do you want to play? Because if you don't even want to play, I'm not me pushing you onto the field that's not helping either.
00:37:16
Speaker
Right. And so like looking at that as a, as a way to be like, okay, what the hell is happening right now? Like, what's just like, what's going on? Because a lot of people, uh, and I think you're right. And I think this is where, um, Kyla. I said, I say Kayla for some reason, I think, cause I'm so used to saying Kayla. Well, I think there's like a discrepancy. We'll just have to ask her. Yeah. It's her name. Okay. Um,
00:37:49
Speaker
You wanted her to put the uniform on and play for you. Sure. And that is so much easier. I'd rather just. So much easier. I mean, I don't want to do the work. Right. I'm going to sit on the sidelines and drink Gatorade. Yeah. Get hyponatremia. Orange slices. See, you weren't. If you, if you played, you would know. Pretzels. What kind of savage. That's endurance at the sports. Pretzels are making me thirsty. Anyway. Anyway. Yes. People. If you were, if, if you are, um,
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah. If you're looking for a coach or like, okay, what is coaching? It's like, yeah, it's right. So I think then when we, people who are listening, it's like, okay, well, what kinds of areas people look for coaching in. So I do like to refer, I think it's easy to make the connection with the gym.
00:38:36
Speaker
enough of the gym. We make a lot of the gym stuff. Well, I just start with, start with the low West examples. So the gym, the gym and nutrition, because people think they're, I think this is important because people might think just as we said, like I sought after nutrition coaching. Sometimes the gateway is something like fitness or nutrition. Sure. So I do think there's some relevance there.
00:39:04
Speaker
So yeah, but the problem is that yeah, then your coach that's there, that's not the coach that's going to help you with your actual shit. Yeah. So I think one of the questions is.
00:39:14
Speaker
It doesn't mean you might need a coach or whatever, but making that distinction of like, why are you even, you can elevate your own experience and figure out kind of what you're looking for by making that, making sure there's a separation there. I thought, why am I going to gym? What do I want out of the gym? Okay. Maybe I'm uncovering like, okay. So for me, like, what am I looking for in nutrition coaching? Am I really looking to get leaner? Okay.
00:39:40
Speaker
Am I, is it more about like, why do I feel like I need to get leaner? Is there something going on about me being able to accept myself? So is that really what I'm looking for? Is like how many nuts do you eat every day? Like probably not. The deeper issue there has to do with my acceptance of myself, right? I don't know.
00:40:01
Speaker
like listening to what I'm saying, you would definitely agree. Yes. I haven't been listening for the past two minutes. I tuned you out. Oh my God. I'm kidding. Yeah, for sure. Right. And that's the thing that I think. Now, fortunately, someone like I think really good coaches in the fitness and nutrition industries at this point understand that it's not just about bicep curls and
00:40:25
Speaker
how many carbohydrates you should eat today. They should kind of, at this point, I think we understand as a career or that role, like there's a lot more behind it. What's the difference between a coach and a trainer? Yeah, I guess a trainer is more about like, I'm gonna, if you want to go to it more of like, in my mind, like I'm only purely going to focus on your aesthetics or like your heart rate or making sure that you're, if you just had a,
00:40:55
Speaker
cardiac arrest and you're coming back and we want to make sure that your heart keeps functioning, like very much on the physical side. Now they might call themselves a coach, but it's very much geared towards like, can you flex and extend your leg? And like, we just going to keep, okay, let's stay within the crossfit. Don't, don't go outside and cross it. Crossfit coach trainer across the, okay. So a CrossFit coach, which I would say,
00:41:24
Speaker
who isn't really what we're defining as a coach. So more, we'll call them a trainer. They know how to show a movement. This is what this looks like. They know how to start a clock. They're going to maybe cheer for people. It's very much surface. It's very much a script and a narrative. Here's what this looks like. This is how you do it. Is your elbow in the right place? And off we go.
00:41:50
Speaker
Did the movement look the right way? Good. They managed the class. They showed the movements. They looked at what body parts need to go where. And people came and left. That's it. Starts and stops there. Okay. What I think a real, a true coach is, by our definition as someone who understands one, there's a lot more than just like,
00:42:18
Speaker
There's an understanding of where's that person coming into class? What's happened to them in their life, in their day? What are the emotions coming with this person? So what are they looking for in that hour? Why are they there? What are they trying to get out of it?
00:42:34
Speaker
understanding how that might impact them receiving coaching, what movements they should be doing, um, pain they're having any of their experience related to something beyond just like their physical States, like their knee being operated on or something, having a knee injury.
00:42:54
Speaker
And then also being able to work with that person, if you're just talking about even within the hour to like provide them then that experience that's going to help them. And, and maybe what I would say as well as it's got to extend beyond the hour.
00:43:09
Speaker
because you're building a relationship over time with this person and trying to identify if there's some patterns you're seeing, like, okay, at some point, if you're really trying to coach this person and help them, and they just come in every day and just crush themselves, and maybe it does give way to trying to provide some other education, at least, to help that person. Yeah, I think a trainer.
00:43:36
Speaker
delivers a prepackaged set of outcomes. This is what you're coming in for. This is what I'm going to give you when you come in. This is the workout. This is what's going to keep you safe. This is what the book says to do right, which in many ways is right. Like that's where it is. It's a bit sterile.
00:43:58
Speaker
Mm hmm. Right. It doesn't matter who's coming through that door. Same product. Same thing. And the trainer and there are some amazing trainers, some great trainers that can deliver the information. Like that, they know their stuff, they're well read, they're super experienced, they've they kind of know where people usually struggle with so that they can kind of dress around it. They know they have the deliverable. Yeah.
00:44:28
Speaker
They know the deliverable very well. Okay.
00:44:32
Speaker
not a fucking coach if you don't know the human being you're trying to deliver it to because the deliverable is the carrot on the string that just kind of gets you moving and then a real like I think a proper coach at some point takes the carrot away and the person's like yeah right I'm gonna keep moving though like I don't need that shit anymore and so a coach I think you know because a lot of it like every crossroad gym says they have coaches and like
00:44:59
Speaker
in many ways they do and in many ways they don't. Is it a trainer or is it a coach? And it's like, well, how can we, what's the difference? And are we just playing semantics? And it's like, no, I do not believe we are playing semantics. I believe we were making a distinction so that we can have a better conversation about not what we do, but what you want. If you want just like, Hey, I'm going to go here and boom, that's it fine. Now a coach making that.
00:45:27
Speaker
It's a human first mindset or client first mindset or getting to know the human being more. And it's not therapy. It's not tell me all like it's not. It's not involving that person in the process versus versus the one way. I mean, it's the difference between as you're talking, I was thinking like, OK, the six week challenge, six week women's only challenge. This is the curriculum. You're going to come in, you're going to do this. Are you talking about the one that you're doing?
00:45:55
Speaker
No, I'm talking about like, that's a thing. Yeah, we did. We did one of those and yeah.
00:46:02
Speaker
So that's a product. There's a curriculum. We're going to deliver this. You're going to come and you're going to do movement. Well, I would just hold on a second, though. We said like we kind of threw the middle finger up with those guys. Right. But that's why I'm saying it's not the one we did. What I'm saying is out out there in the world. Yeah. OK. There are these you get the template. Yeah. There are these six week challenges or you see it on Facebook. The local gym is like doing like looking for 12 women, like looking for 12 women to like lose weight and like
00:46:31
Speaker
Try that compared to like, yeah, for example, how we interpreted it or what I'm doing in the next year. Like that is also six weeks. Yeah. It was a program. There will be physical activity, but it's very much a two-way street. Those people coming, they're going to receive a ton of value if they want to do the work. Yeah. But, and if they just want to come in and take the deliverable. Yeah.
00:46:57
Speaker
That's okay. That might be where that person's at, but most people that are joining that are, are looking for like, okay, I, I'm not just looking at like, can you show me how to do a proper bicep curl or like burn some calories? What's the best way to burn calories? So, you know, and for some people, maybe where they're at, I think it also depends on what that coach trainer is looking to
Beyond Physical Training: Coaching for Self-awareness
00:47:22
Speaker
do. I think it is challenging at some point.
00:47:26
Speaker
At some point being a trainer, you're probably going to hit a wall with people if you're only going to commit to being the trainer because we know the software piece beyond the hardware like
00:47:39
Speaker
The limitations that are going to start to happen with people are not going to be just physical and objective. So you're going to either have to keep just getting new people and it's always just going to be like that initial. And I don't know, maybe that is something for people like, yeah, I just like to get people started. Just get them familiar, teach them fitness. That's great. There's tons of value there. But at some point, if you're looking for this, like,
00:48:02
Speaker
longevity of like working with people and stuff, I think the barriers or the things that are going to come up are going to definitely be beyond, even if it looks like injury. So like that's what's interesting to me about like, you know, CrossFit gyms or our gym or, okay. So you take a person, an athlete who comes in, a client, a member, maybe someone who's like fired up about doing things are axed or heavy weights. Okay.
00:48:28
Speaker
And that person's like, look, I don't want your like coaching. I just want a trainer to tell me what to do. I'm going to do it. Like kind of resists the coaching piece. Okay. Every day they're coming in. They have to go heavy. They have to do this stuff. Yeah. It's all about the physical. I don't want any of the like emotional shit. Like don't talk to me about that. Okay. Then they get injured. Yeah.
00:48:49
Speaker
Was that just like a physical thing? Like, Oh yeah. I just like popped my back because. Yeah. I just like. Yeah. It's like, no, of course not. Like number one. Why the fuck do you need to go beyond what you physically, you're like punishing yourself. Why can't you take a rest? Why do you have to do it? So, but now you're getting into the normal coach. Right. And so that's where it's like, great. Go to a PT. Here we go. Like.
00:49:17
Speaker
It's just about the physical. Like here we go. Like, okay, you want to go, you want to deadlift five 15 today and you've like worked out for the past six weeks. Like, no problem. This is what we need to do. We need to have your back and it's like focus on the thing. Yeah. And it's like, really? You want to deadlift five 15 again, or you want to squat like again. And the trainer would be like, okay, that's your goal. That's what you say you want to do. You want to go heavy. You want to do this. You want to do that. Um,
00:49:42
Speaker
Right. They're treating the symptoms. You want to go light. You, you, you don't want to go heavy today. Okay. Uh, you don't want to work hard today. Okay. You don't want to like push the sled, get on the bike, carry the sandbag, do the like actually jump at the top of the burpee. I know it's two inches, but you don't want to do that. That's fine. The trainer would say like, great. We have a workaround for that. If you don't want to do that. Okay. Great. Keep your RPMs at 17 a minute or, you know, or do this or do that.
00:50:13
Speaker
and the coach. Well, right. On that, if you're talking about specific examples. So my workout that was assigned to me on Monday was to do some like pressing, some shoulder work and some lat work, traditional bodybuilding. Okay. What? You're cutting me off. Oh, sorry. No, that's all right. Go on. That's a relevant example. So well, I didn't finish it. Okay.
00:50:42
Speaker
The trainer is gonna say, here's the physical work around, here's the alternative to meet you where you're at, because a good trainer is still gonna meet their clients where they're at.
00:50:54
Speaker
But a coach would come, in my opinion, and say, like, what are you trying to prove to yourself by always having to be the person who lifts the heaviest in the gym? Or like... Or why don't you want to push yourself? Or like, what are you scared of by pushing yourself harder? Like, what's holding you back here? Like,
00:51:16
Speaker
What's going on here? Way beyond the walls of the gym. Because what the movement alternative is and the numbers and the reps and the schemes for the day are a smokescreen for something really going on. And that's the thing. And in the military, it's the difference between concealment and cover.
00:51:38
Speaker
concealment blocks you from the field of view without stopping bullets smoke isn't it like if there's a sniper everyone throw smoke that way the dude can't see that smokes not stopping a bullet though cover is getting behind you know a building to be like okay like we're in the clear now and so often the smoke screen there's a lot of smoke in the gym there's a lot
00:52:07
Speaker
and a lot of people aren't ready for, I think, real coaching to come in. And that's, I think, a challenging thing. Your example that we can transition back to, you've established a coaching relationship now. So it's like, hey, the game, to go back to that, like, we know the rules of the game, we know the opponents, we know our team colors, we know kind of like how we play. There's been some learning that's had to happen. Because if you just are like, yeah, right on, hey, so-and-so, you're gonna scale today,
00:52:36
Speaker
Why are you? Why are you just perpetually keeping yourself down? Like, hold on. Like, you know, don't you can't just go in there and, you know, be be a good will hunting in them or whatever. Yeah, you have to build that up. And that is the patience and the time. And I think that is one of the things like and it's two way. It's a two way. Sure. Yeah.
00:53:02
Speaker
Yeah. And it doesn't, I think that's also not, I do want to go back to my example, but that's where the ego comes in as well from a coach. Like it's not your job to just like, Oh, I'm identifying that. I think that that person, obviously there, there's a smokescreen there with like, they can't back off. Like they have to always prove themselves in the gym and I'm going to go and I'm going to tell them that. Like that's about me. That's about me as the coach wanting to show that person.
00:53:29
Speaker
And that's not going to go well at all. Like that's not like that has to be over time coming to a place where now you can maybe in the appropriate way, like have that person answer that question for themselves. And that's one of the things with the coaching, my experience like with you, with Kyla, like.
00:53:47
Speaker
There's questions and it's not necessarily, you can have some of mine. It's not necessarily like for me to answer to her or to you. It's like, hey, here's a question for you. And it does help people to know like, I don't need you to tell me like, hey,
00:54:02
Speaker
At that point, like what's it about today that you feel like you need to RX or need to use this barbell today? Like don't need to answer it to me. Like just, just like think about that. That's all like, I just want you to stop and think about it. And they might still proceed with that, but they've, you're starting to develop that. So.
00:54:18
Speaker
That being said on Monday the work could be really preachy. Yeah That is a privilege and I mean this when I work with people like and I tell them and they'll say nice things I'll be like no it is a Privilege and an honor to be able to work in this way And that is something that as a coach like don't you fucking dare think that you're just gonna give it like no, no, no, no
00:54:42
Speaker
you need to respect that relationship. And that is a real privilege. And it is an incredible honor to say, Hey, coach, can you help me? Yeah. And it isn't like, you know, so. Yeah. So that time to develop that, but yes, ultimately like, um, building that, that foundation first. So on Monday, this isn't really that, but kind of back to more like not just having it, not just,
00:55:11
Speaker
But challenging people at the point where then you can challenge them a little bit. Yeah, for sure. For sure. So on Monday. What I'm saying is you're not going to go up and be like, hey, no, what are you trying to why can't you accept yourself? What is it about? Sure. Like you can't go. You're not going level friggin 90. Yeah. And I mean, we're like also challenging them with like, um, like what I'm trying to say, this example on Monday, my workout was not something I really was particularly excited about doing.
00:55:37
Speaker
And I shared that with Kyla, like not really feeling it. Don't really feel like doing this.
00:55:43
Speaker
And there's been times where it's like, okay, let's, what do you feel like? What do we want to do? What would help you? But on Monday, it was like, good. Like the nuts at this point, like, that's kind of like all the reason for you to do it. And that made sense to me. And I was like, yep. All right. That doesn't mean that that's every day. And I think that's also the fine line of like dosing your clients appropriately, having that experience. Um,
00:56:07
Speaker
So, you know, I think there's no way a template can do that. Sure. How, how is that? And the template, what's crazy about that too is like the human terrain and like, as you call it, and like, that's something, you know, I've definitely learned a lot from my experience, like watching you coach and just talking about it. But like you have to like really observe people for a long time. Like you can't really just make any.
00:56:36
Speaker
Like we have the same people that we coach a lot, like especially the 9am crew. Sure. Yeah. And like, it takes a long time to kind of understand, like to read people, to understand like where they're at, to know what's like their usual, to know when they're like, not maybe the norm. Like, Hey, are you like, all right today? Like you feel okay? Like, no, actually like I don't like, all right, well let's like back off a little bit. But like that in itself, you have to be looking for those things. You have to want,
00:57:04
Speaker
to get to know people. If you don't want to like, Hey, I don't care. I don't want to like, I don't, there's that line. Like, I don't want to know all this stuff. I'm just here to train you. You won't see anything and you won't know when that person feels good, feels bad. Something happened in their life. So, you know, um, I think that's one of the things when people say like, well, yeah, it's,
Motivation and Passion in Coaching
00:57:26
Speaker
I do think that with CrossFit gyms, the person might not be, um, might not understand all the elements of coaching, but I think generally speaking, people get into CrossFit coaching because they actually really do care about people. So people feel that. And that's where that, like, I love my gym comes from. Like they feel cared about. They feel like that person knows when they come in and something is off and that,
00:57:54
Speaker
goes well, well beyond someone being able to talk about triple extension. You know, that's also why I'm not, you know, that's also why like, if somebody, you know, it's like, Hey, we, we have coaches, we have trainers. Like what's the difference? What's the deal? It's like, man, there's like, there's a bit of an over, there's certainly some overlap there. And so, you know, yeah, you're, you're normal person at the, or, or your gym that doesn't really understand any of this, um, and whatever, you know, like,
00:58:23
Speaker
Yep. That's like, for example, SoulCycle, they are not coaches. Sorry. They're not like they're performing and you're kind of on stage with them a little bit. Well, what's interesting about that. I think in my experience, there's people that have the potential to.
00:58:42
Speaker
that have that in them, but that platform will not allow for it. So for them, that's a good point. I don't mean to sound judgmental because the human being can be a phenomenal coach. The business of SoulCycle is not a coach. You can't even see people. It's dark. So how do you have, you have no, there is no interaction. That's the problem with that. So that environment is a one way.
00:59:07
Speaker
I'm standing here. I'm, I can't see you. I'm going to talk to you. I'm going to give you stuff, but I don't see anything coming back. There's no interaction. So by definition of kind of what we're saying, coaching is it's not that, um, now I think that there's definitely people that have that ability or they could be a good coach, but that platform, that expression of it isn't possible. Yeah. And I think just to sum it, like to wrap it up, um,
00:59:35
Speaker
just some of the things that we've like, and we work on.
00:59:39
Speaker
This can be five episodes, like coach. I mean, it's all we do. And people would be not listening. People would be bored to death, yeah. But like for us, I think some of the keys or the mantras or whatever, you know, educate, empower and engage, come to my mind with like some of the how we coach or how I coach or how you coach. It's like there's there's an education piece in there. It's not me telling you about you. It's me providing you an opportunity to learn about yourself. But you're learning, boom, education.
01:00:08
Speaker
And then empowering. So there's the education, and then the empowerment is to have the client come up with their
01:00:24
Speaker
empowering themselves, allowing that person to, yeah. Not telling or dictating. And then the engaged piece, like that's obviously been a huge word between theirs forever, but it's like, yeah, wanting to be an active participant in your life. And that's what we try to do. And to your point earlier, like the excuse is the movement. The excuse is the nutrition. The excuse is,
01:00:52
Speaker
And it's okay that people might initially, that might be like the thing that initially is what's obvious to someone. Like I'm seeking out, they don't, it's not like they know, and I'm not going to tell that person, I'm going to say it's about nutrition, but it's really about this. It just, that might be the catalyst, the thing that's common ground. Yeah. Like, Oh yeah. I am struggling to like get into a good fitness regime or lose some weight. And then hopefully finding someone that can
01:01:21
Speaker
like hear that, but also work to resolve what's beneath that, not just that. Cause it's also tough to be like, okay, where do I start with that?
Seeking and Offering Coaching Services
01:01:30
Speaker
And that's a big thing. And that's maybe we do another podcast on that. Where do you start? If you're looking for coaching, that could be a great one. Um, but yeah, there's, there's certainly a lot there. So that's kind of our shtick or spiel, our approach. Keep yawning today.
01:01:53
Speaker
So if you are interested in coaching, if you do want to work with us, send us a message. We have different types. There's the practice, which I'm going to be making some updates to, but I work with people individually in that regard. I do private experiences, one-on-one experiences. You do one-on-one coaching. Yeah, we do quite a bit with that because as you can see, it's not just a
01:02:08
Speaker
That's my coast.
01:02:20
Speaker
We coach people to, and then insert the marketing line that, you know, I throw up in my mouth every time here.
01:02:27
Speaker
So that's what we do. The seminar between your seminar, February 8th, there's 11 spots left. So if you actually want to do the work, sign up for it. And some people might have something going on. You probably don't because it's four months from now. So stop your calendars clear.
01:02:51
Speaker
And I have my women's group. Questions on that, send them. You're starting your women's group in January, which is cool. All this stuff is on, generally speaking, Instagram. Yeah. At karianaanthes. K-A-R-I-A-N-N-E. A-N-T-H-E-S. We should get you a new handle. K animal.
01:03:19
Speaker
I can change it. No. At any time you can change it. Cannibal. Yeah, basically just find us somewhere if you have any questions and go from there. So those are the places to go. Other than that, this was a fun chat. It's a passion of ours and we like chatting about it.
01:03:40
Speaker
If there's questions, if there's things you want to hear us chat or dig into or concepts maybe expand upon a little bit more, happy to do that and really good asking for that kind of a feedback thing. So that's that chat next week.