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100 - Fantastic Lies, Hard Truths, & the Cost of Protecting Egos w/ Cali
90 Plays1 day ago
For Episode 100, I’m joined again by Cali Hinzman — long-time friend, first-ever podcast guest, and someone who always brings honesty, perspective, and just enough pushback to make the conversation better.
We get into a topic that shows up everywhere leadership exists: what happens when people protect egos instead of telling the truth. From sport to law enforcement to everyday life, we talk about the danger of “fantastic lies,” the feedback loops that either speed up growth or stall it out, and why honest correction is one of the greatest responsibilities a coach or leader carries. We also unpack meeting people where they’re at, giving grace without lowering standards, and the real cost of creating environments where comfort matters more than truth.
This one is raw, funny, reflective, and full of real-world leadership lessons. Episode 100 felt like the right time for a conversation like this.
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Transcript
Celebrating 100 Episodes: Reflecting on Leadership and Feedback Loops
00:00:00
Speaker
Protect the truth at all costs. New podcast. Trademark. When's it coming out? Oh, my God. Is it hot in here or is it this fire in the sweater? Could it be both? Yeah.
00:00:12
Speaker
But, yeah, that's that's my funny answer here to your very serious question. Welcome to the Captains and Coaches podcast. We explore the art and science of leadership through the lens of athletics and beyond.
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm your host, Tex Wilkin, and today we hit episode 100. I didn't know what I was building when I hit record for the first time. I just knew I had something to say and people worth talking to.
00:00:35
Speaker
And the first person I called, Callie Hinsman, longtime friend, law enforcement professional, and someone who has never once let me get away with anything.
00:00:45
Speaker
and she's back for episode 100. There's nobody I'd rather be sitting across from for this one. We get into feedback loops, fantastic lives, and the responsibility coaches carry, whether they know it or not, and what it looks like to actually meet people where they're at in sport, law enforcement, and in life.
00:01:05
Speaker
Grateful to all you listeners for sticking with it for 100. And thank you to Callie for always helping me raise the game. Ready, ready, and break. Oh, we're rolling.
00:01:17
Speaker
Action. Coming to you live from an undisclosed location. Episode 100. I made it. I know. I can't believe it. And I feel so honored that you would like to chat with me on your, do you call it a centennial episode? Yeah.
00:01:32
Speaker
I don't know. um You've never been you' never been there before, so. Well, you were number one. Yep. Before the official kickoff. I am number one also. You are number one. It's nickname. And you were the first Captains Coaches podcast guest.
00:01:49
Speaker
I know. now it's like 100. Really slumming it in that first one. i mean, who really is responding to your texts and emails at that point when you have virtually... There's no listeners at that point. So you you're really... You're digging deep. And what's what's Callie doing? She's just ready. I'm ready to pounce on any opportunity for attention. so Yes. And you didn't know I started a podcast. it was just like, we're recording this conversation.
00:02:14
Speaker
Without my consent? Well, it's Texas. It's a one one side deal. Well, we're excited to bring this to you. I took a trip up to the Pacific Northwest to catch up on life experience.
00:02:28
Speaker
And i mean, this these are conversations that I live for. had the opportunity to visit Luke. And then now I'm back with you. Yeah. Number two, Luke, shout out. But number one, I mean, you got to come back to the real thing at some point. Always. Well, I mean, you preceded Luke in the the friendship. That's true. Time. That's true Well, our first episode, we explored i law enforcement, your career, and leadership opportunities within that.
00:02:58
Speaker
So if you do want to check that out, it's technically episode number three. man. That is such a... The first episode that interviewed that conducted. This a podcast built on lies because we just spent five minutes talking about how I was number one. First one, come along. How's it number three? Just in release? In release. Okay. All right.
00:03:20
Speaker
You know, scheduling. Yeah. Yeah. The details, the dirty details. Okay. Well, this is in the business, but we call it transition. You bring up lies. I want to start with...
The Necessity of Truth in Performance Environments
00:03:31
Speaker
a term, fantastic lies. Okay. So people in leadership positions- Is that a Liam Neeson movie? No, actually it's a documentary about the Duke lacrosse team. Oh, is it really? Why purposely use that and apply it.
00:03:46
Speaker
Because what I'm getting to is then people in leadership positions, they pump air into people's tires that are above their skillset. Metaphoric.
00:03:57
Speaker
So they are trying to pump these people up for all the wrong reasons. Not to encourage them, but to now take time, money, and effort.
00:04:08
Speaker
And eventually those individuals, they those lies catch up to them, whether it's on the field or when there's another professional that comes along and is honest with them.
00:04:21
Speaker
So now just... you're in a realm where performance matters. It's not just a scoreboard. It's not just a metaphor. You're actually out in the the real world where performance counts. So how dangerous can leadership be if you start to protect an ego for all the wrong reasons?
00:04:43
Speaker
Is this a serious question? Well, no, you said lies and I just jumped it. Yeah. Oh, man, Tex. Like, we're really getting down to the nitty gritty of people protecting egos. i mean,
00:04:55
Speaker
yeah I mean, of course that happens. Like, i thrive on people protecting my ego so that I can live, you know, just live with zero consequence, ideally. Yeah.
00:05:09
Speaker
ah But no, I mean, it's ah obviously it's it obvious is a real thing. I mean, like you see that kind of thing all the time, but it's kind of like we were talking earlier. We did go on a hike earlier and and I feel like we talked about this, um you know, a couple hours ago, but all that stuff can reach a bubble at some point. It all reaches some sort of point where it spills over and.
00:05:30
Speaker
Someone, something, some problem, some issue, whether it's movement or of character trait or something, it gets exposed. And so, I mean, like you can only protect the truth for so long. Are we just talking about, is this a conspiracy theory podcast? Are we protecting the, protect the truth at all costs?
00:05:50
Speaker
New podcast, trademark. When's it coming out? Oh my God. Is it hot in here or is it this fire in the sweater? Could it be both? Yeah. But yeah, that's that's my funny answer to to your very serious question. I mean, you've trained officers. You've spoken with them.
00:06:09
Speaker
How important is level setting on what they need to correct for their next opportunity when they face a similar situation? I mean, it's just it goes back to a foundational principle in, well, not just law enforcement that's built on trust and honesty and truth, but in just in life. I feel like if more people's job was dependent on telling the truth at all times, you know, or or you're you're booted, you're ostracized. Like, I feel like maybe maybe it would be a good thing if that was, you know, something that was upheld in every
Dynamics of Feedback Loops in Coaching
00:06:45
Speaker
line of work. I'm not saying that, like, police work is uniquely noble, but you can be criminally charged if you're, you know, perjuring yourself or something like that. But yeah, that's, I mean, it falls in line with
00:06:55
Speaker
no one should be surprised if whether it's in a training capacity or a feedback loop, you know, on a tactic or something that you're training that you're brutally honest because, and not unnecessarily brutal, brutal, but I think it's just, you owe it to that person. um Like you said, the stakes are really high, but also um it's just the environment you work in. And I think like we've both worked in environments just throughout and And strength and conditioning is kind of like that too, where it does not pay
00:07:26
Speaker
to um to to sugarcoat something to the point of being like dishonest or misleading because it just, all it does is waste time and energy and it just muddies the waters. And i just feel like, especially in law enforcement, you owe it to people ah not only for their health and safety, but just in terms of like just their, uh, their, the image of themselves, like having a, um, a accurate portrayal of yourself, an accurate understanding of who you are. Like you, you don't, you want that?
00:08:02
Speaker
I don't, I don't, what's crazy. not normal I know. But what's crazy is when, and I think that that that might be something that is like our line of work, maybe draws people who thrive on that feedback, right? Like, why wouldn't you want to hear,
00:08:17
Speaker
where your deficiencies lie and things like that. To me, it's just like it's mind boggling that someone someone would get butthurt to the point where they just don't like they don't want to hear it. Right. They'd rather kind of live in this ignorance. um But like to me, if I'm in ah a training environment, which I have been in my capacity in law enforcement, where people are tiptoeing around Or they want they want you to like have the attaboys as opposed to like being called out in a group for making a mistake or something. And I'm like, gosh, I am a 41-year-old woman at this point. I do not care if you embarrass me. Like I just want to know, did I do this right? And if if so, I know there's some – in some facet I can improve it. Like so just just tell me. Don't waste my time.
00:09:04
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Because you know the quicker you can get to correct, then you have the opportunity to move on to the next skill that you can learn. yeah And now we're all encompassing. we're we're We're learning faster. I did want to get to learning a second, but sticking with the direction. So there is this ah cyclical feedback loop that exists in all reference sport and allow you to make any connection to to law enforcement, but cyclical rep where
00:09:38
Speaker
Kid tries, attempts their shot, could be basketball, lacrosse, whatever it is. Then coach comes in and gives them a correction. So we give them a direction, then they did their rep, and we give them a correction. And then there's a moment where they either rebel or adjust.
00:09:54
Speaker
So now if they rebel, we probably restate the direction as the correction. Then they do another them and and just repeat ourselves, do the repeater until trying it their way breaks down and they're not getting it and they finally decide to listen to us. So then the rebel, imagine a bubble, it just starts to shrink and now they can make the corrections and adjust and it just speeds up this feedback loop and we can really get there.
00:10:21
Speaker
So the more trust that they have in us, the more relationship, the closer we are, then the smaller the rebel bubble. It's still going to pop up at times because they're you know teenage, college-age human.
00:10:34
Speaker
So now... the challenge with that fantastic lies in my world they're getting private coaches that then pumped up and maybe their correction is different than mine or dere different than their high school coach and so we're giving them direct feedback this rebellion starts to inflate and now they stop listening to us because they know more or we are wrong in their mind compared to the external force and it could be a club coach it could be a parent hey don't listen to your coach he doesn't know what about
00:11:05
Speaker
ah Yeah, or could be a teammate. So now imagine the car ride home, and then dad is just like, man, do not tim what is Timmy thinking? Do not trust Timmy. Timmy doesn't pass the ball. he's ah Timmy's a ball hog.
00:11:20
Speaker
So now kid that, you know even though he's boys with Timmy, he starts to to still tell that story, and it affects this this loop. It's rather being real efficient to correction this rebellion just starts to explode and I've seen it just destroyed teams. Um, so now that's why I'm so adamant on,
00:11:41
Speaker
make like truly making a correction, a connection with the kids, then we just speed up this feedback loop as fast as possible. There's a lot of stuff I do. You're very versed in and familiar with it's warmups. You suck at that stuff until you don't.
00:11:58
Speaker
And then it really starts to express itself in your athleticism. So just the, um, I'm curious on feedback loops, corrections, directions within your community.
00:12:10
Speaker
Is there a lot of hard charging people that let's let's work together for this feedback loop. Let's be the best teammates we can. Cause like, I'm not too familiar. Is there a coach mentor mentee relationship or is all teammates working together?
00:12:26
Speaker
What's the best operating operators that you've worked
Challenges in Law Enforcement and Sports Coaching
00:12:30
Speaker
with?
00:12:32
Speaker
Man, i um I have to push back on the word operator. I'm certainly not an operator. I get what you're saying. And I think that word gets thrown around pretty... That was like not a slight on you, but... um Yeah, I mean, we're police officers, but... Officer. Yeah. Who's looking for alliteration?
00:12:49
Speaker
yeah Got it. um But yes, I would say... Yeah, we're I mean, we're no different. Like, you can look at a teenager. that youre The benefit that you have is you have, like, this microcosm of, like, teenagers that are going through all these, like, you know, ego, finding themselves. You know, they're trying to develop their own character traits. Am I the am i the alpha? Am I the listener? Am I the whatever? you know, they're all kind of sorting through that. Like...
00:13:18
Speaker
Dude, it does not change through adulthood. people there's ah There's some people that are self-assured and they come to that realization of who they are a little faster, but like there's still... there's just It runs the gamut when you're in – especially when you're in a training environment and the the stress is kind of you know amped up a little bit. Then you people start to like really expose who they are and what their insecurities are. And it's it's fun. It's like – to me, I love that environment because it's like, all right, it's like, all right, we're nuding up right now. We're all getting naked. And that's – please don't make that like the show quote. But it's kind of like one of those – One of those where you're like, yeah, where you're like, all right, we're all going to get vulnerable. Like, I hope I hope that's the training. Be vulnerable.
00:14:01
Speaker
Be vulnerable. Yes. Another bowl plug for you. But yeah. um Yeah, it's it it. I like that environment. The i guess to go back to what kind of people are in it. Yeah. You have those hard chargers. And, you know, sometimes, though, I got to say, like, yeah, you want to have the hard charger. But these people, including like myself, I'm not saying I'm a hard charger, but i I have been guilty of some of the traits of somebody who like, hey, let's make this correction and move on. You know, it's not all about listening to you self-critique and walk back the last 15 minutes of performance and be like, all right, I know I could have done this. um i i can, you know, I can sustain this, but I can improve this. And i really shouldn't have, you know, gone left when there was this open space for my right or what, you know, whatever it is.
00:14:55
Speaker
Like, i don't know. it Yes, you can. i think you can. debrief and self critique to a fault where it like almost paralyzes you, you know, where, and and especially in a team in environment, because you've got the rest of the team standing there and it's like, Hey man, this isn't about you. It's like, it's not just your training environment. This isn't, this isn't like a let's build up Callie, you know? um Callie. No, no. I can see why you made that decision because of, you know, these variables, you know? And so I think a lot of times, like you can have these hard chargers that,
00:15:31
Speaker
ah it it can dictate the flow of like a training environment and it can stymie the the flow. And I know you're all about flow. Kill the drill. I hate when drill is killed. Yeah. we're moving, we're learning. Yeah, exactly.
00:15:45
Speaker
and it's like... It has, it has like anything and else. It has this beautiful curve of like optimal time to like get growth and learning. And then you can just watch that train sail by as it were, you know, like you just, you just like see it. And then you see people start losing interest as one person is talking or debriefing or self critiquing. And oftentimes that does happen, happen in those like hard charge environments. And then you're just like,
00:16:13
Speaker
You know? And again, it's like, i think it's, in a way, it's a good problem to have. If you're going to have any problem, at least you have people who are being, like, reflective and they're like, you know, of course, we're we're nitpicking here, right? and But that's what, that your your job is in the details. It's like, exactly all these things matter. So you're,
00:16:30
Speaker
We, us leaders, you're teaching to, I mean, the key word I want to get at is differentiation. We're teaching to a bell curve at all times. There's kids that are new to
Exploring Learning Styles and Coaching Methods
00:16:40
Speaker
this. There's kids that are maybe they're the same age, but they're different training ages.
00:16:46
Speaker
So they're all in the same class right now. So I have to make sure day one deer bambi legs is... We're still teaching the same thing. We all got to squat today or we're all going shoot, whatever it may be.
00:16:59
Speaker
And this kid that's been training his whole life because their parents were very invested. um You got to teach the same lesson. So that is, that's also a challenge. I mean, because then you have different learning, preferred learning styles is the appropriate term, but there's also learning velocities.
00:17:17
Speaker
So kids are, they're picking up stuff much quicker. So that, that's also a challenge. So then my, my question to you is when did you, I guess, embody, understand, or get, come to a realization where you learned how you learn?
00:17:34
Speaker
Time out. Observation, new coaches getting into the field are really smart and intelligent when it comes to programming or understanding practice plans and their sport, and really bad at people.
00:17:47
Speaker
They have high IQ and low EQ. I spent the past 14 years traveling the world teaching people how to teach people lifting weights, understanding sport, but most importantly, connecting with people.
00:18:01
Speaker
I've taken all those lessons from all over the world and put them into a new course, Why They're Not Listening, Coaching Today's Athlete. If you want the first lesson free, head to the website, listen.captainsandcoaches.com to learn more.
00:18:16
Speaker
And now, back to the show. Ready, ready, and break. Well, ah let hold on to your question for just one second because you made me think of something that I think is like an interesting I just kind of realized this and when when you're talking yes you do have like the different velocities and we've all been in like training environments where you're like I can see this person is getting the most out of it and this person is bored or whatever you know it's like nothing to them um you know it's like I can think of those environments where it's really beneficial to have like you you know you do have that
00:18:50
Speaker
maybe second instructor who is while the majority of people are learning the foundational principles of whatever it is, firearms or, you know, making entries or something like that.
00:19:06
Speaker
You also have like maybe a secondary instructor who's, who's providing like little tidbits of fine tuning things that challenge that one individual or that's those handful of individuals who are like,
00:19:20
Speaker
just, they're just crushing what they're already doing. Right. But you have this, you have this upper, um, kind of this higher threshold of competence.
00:19:32
Speaker
And you have an instructor that's kind of in their ear, every, every rep or every other rep, giving them something to strive for to let them know, because they are thriving those hard chargers are thriving on that, that like that elusive carrot, like they want, they want to like, that's the whole reason they get into these, you know, elite groups and things like that is because they want to be perfect at something that you cannot perfect. Like they want.
00:20:01
Speaker
It's just the challenge of doing that. And so if you keep giving someone some, some thread of feedback that they're not doing it perfectly, it will, it's like that little shot to keep them going and stay plugged in. So anyway.
00:20:18
Speaker
Your question though. Well, I'll comment on that. So that's that's how I also align for sports practice drills to go. You got a conductor with a whistle who's just keeping the drill moving and then there's a coach. yeah So coach, say you shoot, coach is giving you feedback, quick. Here's one cue to take him to the next rep.
00:20:40
Speaker
So going back to that feedback loop, you're just focusing on one thing to fix going into the next rep. And so coach is working hard while the conductor is keeping things moving and operating.
00:20:52
Speaker
So those two working together, that's when the magic happens. But as soon as conductor kills the drill to coach one kid, guess where everybody else's brain goes? Yeah.
00:21:04
Speaker
All over the place. Yeah. So if, yeah, those two folks can work together. And we've both been in teaching situations where we've got to do both. Yeah. And that's where now a new term I throw out is between the whistles is so valuable.
00:21:20
Speaker
So I can see i got still lead the group, but see one person's board. OK. Water break, time out, or we're moving on. Then I go find that person and and try to keep them invested or comment or something. Yeah, it's a lot to ask of one coach. And that's, I mean, of course, but that's the situation that most people find themselves in. It's like, there's no one else to like hand off to. But like, even if you have like...
00:21:47
Speaker
At least in some police capacity, if you have a team leader or somebody. That's the team captain. So eventually you hand off those coach responsibilities to ah each other. Yeah. And then you have that person proctoring the basics and you're kind of fine tuning um the details that you want to see.
00:22:06
Speaker
i find that to be a better dynamic than if you do the reverse, which is like a team leader or, you know, That's easier, but that's selfish coaching because you want to get into the the nuance, the nitty gritty, and then have some yeah person just blow the whistle. Yeah. Hey, go when he goes or go when he gets to this cone.
00:22:27
Speaker
They're going to lose track and they're doing this. Yeah. I want a clean drill to to, yeah, enforce these feedback loops and then work into handing off the communication to the kid. Similar.
00:22:41
Speaker
Glad we're aligned. Mm-hmm. So how do you learn? I don't know how I learn. I don't know if I do learn. don't know if I'm... Am I real? Is this real? I don't know. I mean, how do we... where this is We all know this is just a simulation anyways, right? no I yeah disagree. Yeah. um but On that.
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i think... I, that's a good question. I don't know if I've ever, i think I learned best by doing was it kinesthetic? Probably. is by physically doing, I also really noticed that one of the things I like to, and obviously you do this for sport a lot is just throw positions up on a board. And I really enjoy like almost like an aerial view of, especially if you're talking about entries or warrant services or something like that, where it's like, okay.
00:23:32
Speaker
You're looking at all the pieces in place. Here here are the assets that you have. And like here's how we're going to position everybody. Here's how the flow is going to look. you know And i liked you know I just like that um aerial view. I find that my brain can process that the best, almost like from a bird's eye perspective. But aside from that, I mean i just think doing it is...
00:23:57
Speaker
doing it is is the not only is the most fun doing it but doing it is it's just it's just i mean i mean it's practical right like that's why you do a practical it's we're moving we're learning yeah i don't know i mean i i think if you're like a physical person like we are where it's you'd like to train generally you are plugged in when your body is in motion, right? when If you're not, you're just kind of like, this is so boring, you know?
00:24:26
Speaker
um So i I don't know. I don't know if there's a cut and dry answer there, but try anything. If it works, can't argue with results, right? Everything works.
00:24:38
Speaker
Just not forever. Yeah. ah This is where I started to tap into adult learning. And there's something I love to reference. called Bloom's Taxonomy.
00:24:50
Speaker
This is where learning objectives, and we were talking about learning objectives for our exactly falling asleep presentation. yeah my yeah well there Here we go Professor Tex. The three, the base is remember.
00:25:06
Speaker
So where coaches, they speed through like the the details, the setup, and they just want to get to the execution and they're just talking at people.
00:25:17
Speaker
But how important is the setup and the foundation, the base for shooting? I know. It's everything. So now, same for with any skill. so And also where to go.
00:25:29
Speaker
So alignment, assignment technique. Here's what where you need to go, what you need to do. And if kids can't remember that, people can't remember that, then the whole thing is a wash.
00:25:40
Speaker
The whole system falls apart. Yeah. So then what what I found is just focusing on here's where you go and what to do. Yeah. And then when there's a more advanced kid or the kids like finally start to get it and then their attention goes off, then I add the why. Yeah.
00:25:59
Speaker
Scenics start with why I get it i understand it but like with a fast-moving group or a younger group like we could just make sure you're moving well a short attention span or people who are just physical people and like to move like I just yeah I mean yes I went through like a rifle school recently where this one guy was telling me i can just he just said to me like I can tell you're you're so bored and you're like when can we just shoot this already like it's like it yeah I mean but again I know how important it is and obviously when you're dealing with a weapon there's a lot of
00:26:38
Speaker
safety concerns, it's not just about getting out there and executing well or performing well. It's there's, there's a lot of other variables, um, to think of when you're on the range, but yeah. Yeah. Um, but it does beg the question, like, since you asked me, how did you know what kind of learner you were? Like what brought you to that realization?
00:27:03
Speaker
Some turntables are turning now. The, well, just thinking about athletic career school and then where the we're finding a topic where it's just like, I'm all i'm interested. I'm going to dive in. I want to understand. So I guess the finding that bigger picture and mean, asking those questions, always being that due, why are we doing this in weight room?
00:27:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm. why Why, where's this in the field? And what pissed me off, and I'll call Kojo out on this, when we were players, we would do a specific drill in lacrosse and it'd be like, this doesn't make any sense, this is not making us better.
00:27:44
Speaker
And it's like a drill in practice is just one piece of ultimately a scheme or a play how we do Yeah, I've heard that a lot of times in training. which Why are we doing this? This stupid. Yeah. And fighting and pushing back with coach.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah. I've been that person asking that question. Like, why are we doing this? It's a drill. It's a one piece of a much bigger context. And it's like, you're like, well, then show me the context already. Well, yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:28:13
Speaker
So coach was, whether he didn't want to at the time or whatever it was, this particular coach. And then Colin needed the why. Yeah. But me, I'm more like, okay, I'm going to execute.
00:28:26
Speaker
And then me moving, I'll find where this fits in our our game. so Yeah, you're kind of, yeah i can see you old I can see you just kind of like consuming, consuming and like trusting, consuming that this is going to all, everything's, hey, this person that has
Strategies for Effective Communication and Trust-Building
00:28:40
Speaker
my best interest at heart.
00:28:42
Speaker
And then the world just beat you down. Eventually. yeah Not college. We're like, wait, that coach had no idea what the hell he was talking about. Well, one note on that, and ah what I did want to get to is meeting people where they're at and how to find and navigate yeah that conversation.
00:29:02
Speaker
That coach was where I was at because he went from high school to coaching college, but I was only playing for, i don't know, two years, 16 months at this point. So he was meeting me where I was at, but Mr. Prep School Kojo,
00:29:18
Speaker
He was well beyond this. so That's a shot. That is quite the shot. Josh fired. Yeah, he'll own that. but So in that coach's defense, he was keep teaching at my level. Sure. The lowest then denominator. Yeah.
00:29:34
Speaker
When he, yeah, could, don't know. Yeah, he could have been like, Colin, shh, we'll tell you later. No, you don't tell Colin. So he could have just been like, Tex, we'll catch you up later. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just do what the guy in front of you does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have been fine with it. Yeah.
00:29:51
Speaker
But. So would you say like you're, then you are a, because I thought we were talking about like physical learner. I want to make the connections versus somebody just telling me.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, what kind of learner is that? That's not that's not a kind. that's That's like a whole sentence. um one of kind. I thought we were talking about like an audible learner or like a visual or a kinesthetic where you're moving and doing. I thought that's what you were talking about. I mean can't it can be both, right? I know. You are – let me just tell people a little bit about you because I don't think that people – they probably get an understanding of you in this capacity as a coach, but it is – Doesn't matter if you're talking about coaching or it's like a good story or maybe a song or a book that you read. You write down a lot of stuff.
00:30:40
Speaker
You write down a lot of stuff. You're going to write that down, aren't you? You're going to write down that you write down a lot of stuff. Down. Don't forget it. a lot. But it's true. It's like one of the ways that you – and I do think you're one of the few people – like I've written down stuff in the past. It's like, yeah, maybe I'll come back to this one day and look at it. But I think you actually do like go back in your notes and reflect more. And that's from early days. Like this is like DuPont days where it'd be like – you know, we might be doing like a CrossFit football workout or something and there was some something that like gave you an idea or something maybe for a training thing and you would actually go back and refer to a workout that you had written down or something and it's like, you've always done that though.
00:31:24
Speaker
So to quote Steve Jobs, creativity is in the connections. So you can start to connect a lot of dots that aren't necessarily there.
00:31:35
Speaker
This just became another, just one more podcast out there. You're quoting Steve Jobs. You're wearing a vest. You've seen the Charlie Day. You the only thing that's different is the sweet background, but. This is nice. Charlie Day, who I confused with Ryan Day. Ryan Day. From Ohio State.
00:31:52
Speaker
yeah Same guy. Same madness. Yeah. Yeah, but it's just funny because I don't think people recognize like you are, you're very into words and the, and the I guess the the meaning of words, the meaning of.
00:32:10
Speaker
Words matter. Words matter. I know. And you're a big quote person. So if there's a quote that resonates with you, you always go back to it and refer to it. And I'm not just saying that because it's Steve Jobs thing, but it's because you really remember a lot of quotes, like a lot.
00:32:26
Speaker
So anyway, it's just kind of an aside. part Part of your learning process is just jotting that stuff down. oh Yeah. Yeah. I'm a word hoarder. Yeah.
00:32:40
Speaker
so then i guess we brought it up but meeting people who where they're at yeah you get the opportunity to give feedback receive feedback train new people um enter into stressful situations with people that you got trust quick so what's your approach to okay how do i level set on this person so we can meet them where they're at so we can accelerate our communication and trust and so This is such a long question. I don't, uh, yeah, I mean, the thing is, I've only been doing this a hundred times. know. You're so adept at like asking these, these involved questions. I feel like, yeah, I mean, it's all, it's all, you know, it's, it's like any other work environment except there's, like I said, the stakes are higher. And so you just, you know, you kind of i there's so much ego involved. that I like to give people a benefit the doubt until they kind of prove you wrong, you know? And I think that's a
00:33:37
Speaker
we're all We're all adults though. We're not on a sports team. We're not like this isn't, you know, a weekend warrior softball game. This is like, you know, we're we're coming in and doing a job. We're going home, you know, some people are stressed out from what's going on in their life. And it's like, when you talk about like, there's so much fluctuation in people's life, whether it's how they're feeling, if they're injured, how, you know, what their home life is like, what they're stressed about, like you, you know, you give them grace until they really screw up in front of you. And then you call them out on it. And it is really that simple. Like, I think, you know, I don't want to overcomplicate because this is just
00:34:20
Speaker
These are just guys, gals coming in and doing their job. I mean, I don't, and it's not the NFL. These are these, you know, you look at cops, there's so a lot of them are not the hardest chargers. They're people probably, if you went and talked to people have been on a SWAT team for 20 years, they'd have a different answer. Um,
00:34:39
Speaker
And while, you know, I have worked with very talented people, I mean, ultimately you just, um you want, you want people to assess them themselves for where they're truly at and are honest about that.
00:34:53
Speaker
And then you put them in a position to succeed. Um, and that's it. Like when you have time, you train and you don't, uh, You know, I think that that's ultimately it. Like you, we're never going to have the time to train even as much as your lacrosse players. And that's just the sad truth of it.
00:35:11
Speaker
It is just, that's just, that's just the reality. If people have an option to go home and be with their families, especially in the unit that I'm currently leaving. It's like if they have the option to go home with a little free time that they have and be with their families or you have this optional training thing, I'm going to say that a lot of them, if they haven't spent a lot of quality time with their family, they're choose their family. and Can you blame them? you know And so while we can get into the nitty gritty of trying to like ah you know ah assess people and um make sure that they're
00:35:46
Speaker
you know, performing at this certain standard that I feel like that's in law enforcement, that standard always changing too. And the people that are coming into law enforcement, the type of person is changing both physically mentally, generationally. So it's like, yeah, we have this bar that's moving. And like I said, I kind of give, I i kind of put a lot of, uh, weight on somebody. If they come in and they say they're feeling like shit for they're feeling like crap for any given reason, you put them in a position to succeed with where they're at that day.
00:36:19
Speaker
Um, sometimes you just don't know what's going on with them and it's a job for them and you want them to make it home safe. You want to make it home safe and you work within the confines of what you're capable of that day. It's the same thing as like, you know, how many players are on a lacrosse team? Depends. 20, 40, 50. 20, 40, 50, right?
00:36:39
Speaker
But like it's, you can't, but but who how many players are on in a field at one time? 11. 11. Okay. So 11 people on a field at one time. 10. 11 is football. Sorry. Okay. You can go who panicked Who the hell do you think you are? Well, sometimes I wander onto the field to thank the refs.
00:36:59
Speaker
Uh, yeah. So, I mean, you, you know what you can do with 11 people, 10 people. Okay. You know what you can do with 10 people, you know, what positions need to be filled. And, um, sometimes in police work, depending on what your job is, you only get four people.
00:37:15
Speaker
So what are you going do with those four people? Those roles change dramatically, right? It, it just becomes like the priorities change, uh, what you expect, from what what it can a person physically do? if you're If you're talking about sending four people to go manage a protest, you're you're going to approach that with a totally different posture and and tactic than you would if you had a group of 24 people, right? And so like these are that's just the reality of the situation. And so that's why I think it's there are comparisons that you can make between sport, law enforcement, law enforcement,
00:37:51
Speaker
and you know, probably military up into a point and then you, and then it starts to fall apart. Right. And that's just, you know, I don't want to perpetuate that these things are so similar because, um, they are up into a point, a physical performance standpoint, but it's just not, you know, that's a tangent when a long tangent, but that's just the reality of it. So ah yeah, kind of reiterating just like Have those people that can be honest with themselves and you about where they're at physically, and mentally, all that stuff. And then just, work with what you got, like both numbers and mentally. And if you, know, if your gut is telling you like something's going on with this person or whatever, just put them in a position to succeed. Don't ostracize them. That's different, but like put them. All right. You're going to be driving the cage car. We all know what that means. Like you're transporting the prisoner. We don't need you in a foot pursuit if you're all jacked up from, you know, some injury or, you know what i mean? So anyway, long answer. And I know that's not what you want to hear, which pains me because. i don't think I have any set answer. I know, but yeah I know it's just, for there is a structure i know to like, but I just want to be honest with people. And I don't know how many.
00:39:09
Speaker
People who watch the podcast, listen to it, are law enforcement. But I mean, in my 10 years, that's just been my experience.
00:39:18
Speaker
Well, I feel the key word to pick up by there is grace. So where there is leadership in sports, I think a connection can be made with that. Because a lot of people are stepping onto the field and they're not
00:39:35
Speaker
removing themselves from the day-to-day they're bringing that to two sports so one give themselves grace like you are coaching for the kids the people in front of you so let's just aim to leave that behind us but then if you notice teammate stepping out of bounds within their behaviors give them grace and Get to separate.
Impact of Leadership and Positive Reinforcement
00:40:00
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:40:01
Speaker
So one one thing I've been aiming to do is Intentionally increase kids social awareness. So it's not just me being Angry at them.
00:40:12
Speaker
I give them a number or a mat where it's like eight nine ten You cross the line out of 20. What are we talking? 10 and then generic why not 11 like but like ah think football or or you spinal tap yeah nice that's why it took me a second there slow feedback loop and I'm surprised you've seen that movie based off our previous conversations. know. Well, you're referencing movies. that You're referencing such obscure movies. Like, you gotta... I know Spinal Tap's not that obscure, but throughout the day to today... That's the obscure one. Throughout the day today, you have just been all over the place.
00:40:53
Speaker
Big Daddy is not that. It... It's not... If you don't get something, all you have to say is sick reference, bro. You don't know what it is, but I'll feel good about myself. Okay. Okay.
00:41:06
Speaker
All right, all right, all right. Back to it. So you give these kids a number and telling them where you are at, like in terms of your patience level or your... And then they can connect it to their decisions or their behaviors. Okay, let's do a role play because I'm not fully seeing this. Okay, so let's say to you, what's an example? It's like, am dilly-dallying.
00:41:27
Speaker
dill Do people still say that? Dilly? I'm i'm just over there, just You know, dilly-dallying on the sideline when I'm supposed to be out there running suicide. You probably don't call it, running line drills or whatever it is.
00:41:43
Speaker
And I'm ignoring you and you're telling me to get my ass out there. And I'm like. Yeah. And then you come up to me and you say what? Well, did you listen the first time? No. it's no. Listen to what?
00:41:55
Speaker
Bruh. Wow. ah Okay. Yeah, and then it's as simple as, Callie, I'm at a seven. We're running. We're going to do an extra lap because...
00:42:08
Speaker
You're failing to to listen. Well, i'm probably asking what's going on. And then leave with that and being like, you're you're testing my patience right now. I'm at seven. We're going to add one more rep. If we don't continue, if you continue to do this, so highlight the negative behavior and then aim to put them in bounds, then I'm going to be at an eight and then everybody's running.
00:42:30
Speaker
That's what you do? You would say that? Yeah. So then it the numbers are important because the kids get- What if I'm like, I don't give up about your seven, Coach McQuilkin. Do you think I care?
00:42:43
Speaker
Well, they need they need to be separated from the group because there's something else going on. Okay. If that's- Yeah. I probably just need a hug at that point. I'm probably just a kid that needs a hug. So this is where I would differentiate behaviors because then they're that's acting out. Mm-hmm.
00:42:58
Speaker
They trust me enough to basically be an asshole to me. So they are looking for attention. You think you've got this whole parenting thing figured out, don't you? You're just going to be... I'm uncle. I know. You've got a system, as Luke would say. You think you've got this whole thing just nailed down. And honestly, sounds pretty good. It actually sounds good. that's acting out, but acting in...
00:43:24
Speaker
Oh my God. That's like such a 2026 term, like acting in, don't act out, act in. No, you don't want them to act in. It's even worse. Oh. Because that's the internal. Oh, okay. I see where you're like. So now they are self-destructing. Self-loathing. And so that'd be the kid.
00:43:42
Speaker
The Callie that's acting out, I call them out and they're just they stare at me and then they go do exactly what, but it's just this resentment. Yeah. And those are the kids that do really crazy stuff. Well, yeah. And then you you see them when it it the volcano goes off and they take their stick and they're hitting against their head. Oh my God. Or they miss a shot and it's just break their freaking stick. Yeah.
00:44:10
Speaker
So they did everything they asked. Could it just be testosterone? That's like a huge variable with your kids. In Austin? No. You're going to lose a lot of followers in ATX. oh That's a shot.
00:44:25
Speaker
and I'm allowed to. Yeah. So, ah yeah, but that but that's differentiating. So I wouldn't punish the team. For a kid that is, like, starts to, so that, then I start to build that resentment amongst the whole team.
00:44:43
Speaker
So it's just, what is the action, what is their decision, what's their behavior? Then I make a decision to, you know, what's the next step? I like the number thing. i have to say what it does.
00:44:56
Speaker
Well, Where they're, so this comes down to if if there're if we're able to have the conversation, they're not an innate. They're at a seven and we can talk them down to, well, let's get in line or. But you're the coach, you're at the seven, right? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, so try to do that. And then I know when they're at an eight, nine or 10, because they're not listening to anybody and they continue to act out or break stuff.
00:45:27
Speaker
Well, that that's that's limbic brain. They're in survival mode, fight, flight, freeze. So what we need to do is move. So then i separate them from the group to be like, go meet me at the south end zone and I'll meet you there.
00:45:40
Speaker
So then just have them sprint, jog, run, whatever, get away from the group. And then I can walk down there to give them time to cool down. Yeah.
00:45:52
Speaker
Because what you don't want to do is two things. One, I'm not going to, I can meet them at an eight and talk them down. That's probably not a good idea.
00:46:02
Speaker
But then what do most coaches do in authority figures, not just coaches, authority figures, they come in at a nine if he's at an eight and they try to force within that.
00:46:14
Speaker
yeah The two volcanoes are going seen that You see that a lot in police work where it's like comes down to kind of, it's kind of a like a, it can it can come down to like a shameful pissing match between an officer and a suspect where it's there's like this struggle this power struggle. And you and I have talked about it on that first podcast where you're like, what is happening here? I think we all know who's in charge. yeah You know, it's like, why even bother trying to like- The first one that gets to 11 is in charge. Yeah. yeah but Well, apparently we were like,
00:46:45
Speaker
You're like, does it need to be like, yeah. I mean, but trust me, i we you all, everyone, depending on how your day is going, you get to that point where you're like, it just feels better if I'm louder. You know, I feel more powerful if I'm screaming. And so, you know, that's how I raise my kids. and how No, but it's like, yeah. It's ah it's just ah the the number thing is like a cool concept. It reminds me of Breakfast Club with guys that was like, you want two more?
00:47:16
Speaker
I'll give you two more. It's like, you mess with the bull, you get the horns. Old Bull. Brought to you by Old Bull. That quote from Breakfast Club.
00:47:29
Speaker
Yeah. this this you get I mean, it's good insight. It's like amazing you have thousands of these little these stories, these like coaching colloquialisms that you, yeah, write it down. I knew you were going to, I knew you were going to write that down. It's the title the episode. I know. That's a coffee table book right there. Don't, we'll come back to the spelling. But yeah, you just have so many of these and I'm not like tooting your horn or anything, but it's amazing. Like,
00:47:59
Speaker
This is just what we were talking about on our hike earlier is that you've amassed so much knowledge and experience in this topic where it's like you have a coaching, um i don't know, an experience. ah Yeah, what's what's the word I'm thinking of here?
00:48:16
Speaker
yeah like a – not a story. there's just There's a word for
Pursuit of Athletic Justice and Systemic Issues
00:48:20
Speaker
it. I'm trying to think you think of it. But anyway, you have – um one of those for virtually every coaching problem, any cliche or common coaching issue, you have seen it over and over. You've done it.
00:48:34
Speaker
And it's pretty like, it's pretty amazing. And I think I'm like, when you do become a parent, you, you will be well-equipped. You have a system. It's just like, you know, a little really stress test it, but then it's different age group. yeah But then that's where the kids. Anecdote. That's the word I was thinking of. You have an anecdote for like all of your,
00:48:53
Speaker
All of the coaching kind of like main principles. Like you've got... I still get surprised. What's... What's surprised? Yeah. Parents. Oh, okay. I try to surprise you. were you are parent and you're surprised. Parents can surprise you. Parents are... grown they're just taller bigger children that's all they are and it's like why should that surprise you but then they you know they get this like sense of uh i can do whatever i want because i have all this money now and i or you're really important in your world in your world yeah so then that makes you a great coach yeah it's just we're all we are all just children we're all still children
00:49:30
Speaker
And none of this is real. It's all just a simulation. So why get stressed out about your kids making the damn lacrosse team or, you know, being a starter or whatever it is, or, you know, it's just like, holy smokes, would you pump the brakes? And I want you to remind me of this in like 10 years when my oldest kid is like really getting competitive in the sports because I'll be like that mom on the sideline who's just like charging the field.
00:50:00
Speaker
In this simulation we call life. It doesn't matter. can do whatever you want. Nothing matters, though. Well, nothing matters. Yeah. I'm not going like, go out there and arrest someone, but I would. No. Depends on.
00:50:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it depends. I mean, no, it's just it's just ah it's just funny how serious parents take all this stuff. But anyway, you deal with that stuff all the time. But. Uh-huh. Can I ask you a question? No. No. Okay.
00:50:29
Speaker
That's fine. I'm kidding. That's fair. No, but like – I'm just curious why you went from coaching adults to college level to now kind of adolescents, and that seems to be like your niche now to me. And it's – I know – I know kind of peripherally that it has a lot to do with your formative years and how that shaped your progression in sport. And so I'm assuming it has something to do with that being kind of that time for potency in terms of impressionable and all that stuff. But like, is that why you've chosen this kind of age bracket?
00:51:12
Speaker
Yeah, I can just be the coach I needed at that time. so high school had very transactional coaches. So their aim was, yeah, dictate and control your performance despite of who you were to then maintain their jobs. Sure.
00:51:31
Speaker
And then had a transformational coach to use research language. Dude completely volunteered his time. I know you were talking about me. I'm like, I'm right here. No. Just use my name. No. Well, hey, the DuPont. That was great time.
00:51:47
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, sorry interrupt. We had a lot of freedom to create something special. So. Culture, community. Yep. Yeah. And then, yeah, coach from Long Island. And then we started our lacrosse team because we felt we were leaders and winners.
00:52:01
Speaker
And our football, just a wash. And they were telling us our performance. So then, yeah, start our team. And then we showed up in Houston. Had a very small but tight-knit lacrosse community. And so we just showed up to their, like, adult league. And being like, we want to start team.
00:52:19
Speaker
We need a coach. And then... ah Funny, hilarious dude from Long Island. Big personality. She's like, where do we live? We're on Katy.
00:52:29
Speaker
And his nephew, um his nephew played for our rival football team. And he was aware of just the freaking. It's so random, right? it I mean, it's.
00:52:41
Speaker
One in a million. So random. but yeah Yeah. Like. Yeah. necessary yeah um so yeah then his he was aware of just the freaking cultural abuse within the sport and his nephew was putting up with it because he was starting and and winning a state championships and then there was us and so we wanted a lacrosse team it was close to his nephew's community we were his nephew's age um well yes since met and he's a good dude too so uh yeah he just then gave his time to it yeah
00:53:17
Speaker
And I mean, and you were like, I want to replicate this. Yeah, we sucked. Yeah. But then he just kept giving us opportunities. And then he wasn't lying to us. He was in his joking, you know, jabbing Long Island banter. Is it true? And manner are like, yeah, it's kind of true. We do kind stuff. Yeah.
00:53:35
Speaker
But he kept us coming back. And so, yeah, and then we we established, because we're all great attitude, dudes that loved each other. And yeah, we established a program and built a program within two years, and then went off to go play in college. And then here we are 20 plus years later, and the team, the community, it's still there. Yeah, that's amazing. what a bunch of rambunctious- But- reg why Why now? Like why return to as an adult?
00:54:06
Speaker
just Just because of that experience, you're like, I just want. what Yeah. And it's still being that position of power is still being abused. For the high school age, it's still ah in many areas transactional. It's still you get these people that are pumping out lies to these kids. So parents are writing bigger checks.
00:54:27
Speaker
And then that kid doesn't go to the Division I school. So then he, ah she, whoever, it because it's just as nasty within club volleyball, but um they told themselves they're going to be this identity of a Division I volleyball, lacrosse, basketball, whatever, and then they don't get it.
00:54:48
Speaker
How are they looking at themselves? like yeah A failure. s SACA. Then they go to, you know, a major university, get into, like, substance, because then that is, okay, I feel good doing this.
00:55:03
Speaker
And then we just spiral down, and then they are... That's a dark turn. Then I see them out there on Aurora Avenue North, and you know what I'm talking about if you're from Seattle. No. But it's your self-belief and then a label that someone put on you, and then unfortunately you chose to believe it.
00:55:26
Speaker
Okay, so... But the through the coaching lens, that is the responsibility, going back to coach's responsibility and why that lecture we used to teach was so important. It's like your words matter.
00:55:40
Speaker
When people are coming to you, they have a certain level of trust that maybe you earned or maybe you didn't, but you have it. And how are you utilizing your power as a coach?
00:55:51
Speaker
Time out. I get two a half. This one's all about training. I'm talking about my old bull strength conditioning program that I have available on Train Heroic. This is Training with Wisdom. It's the program that I am following. I understand who you are. You don't have a lot of time.
00:56:08
Speaker
You're a busy leader and you're beat up from years of athletics, years of training. Here in this program we target hips, ankles, knee, back health with the barbell. We have fun variations of the squat and the programs, sexy Fridays, bodybuilding. It is an amazing time.
00:56:26
Speaker
It will keep you engaged, it will keep you involved, and keep you on a wise program that keeps you coming back for more instead of digging you a hole you can't come out of that affects life outside a training.
00:56:39
Speaker
Come check us out for a seven-day free trial in the Old Bull program, a link in the show notes, or if you're watching on YouTube, just click right here. All right, and now, back to the show. Ready, ready, and break.
00:56:52
Speaker
So we were talking a lot about the value of truth. So my question is, and this goes back to your whole purpose, what you just described as being pretty much like worst case scenario for any youth athlete. um Can you live in a, and you and you talked about the coach's responsibility lecture and how educating and trying to, ah trying to tap into coaches to improve communication and, you know, really like try to pull out the best in them so they can give the best to the kids.
00:57:29
Speaker
Can you live in a world where like, let's say all these, like this, this athletic justice that you're seeking for these kids and stuff, which is kind of you better. type I know you're going to write it down. Athletic justice that you're seeking. Like, can could you exist in this environment?
00:57:48
Speaker
If that, if the justice was never served, if it never, would you still seek it? And, um, can you live in a, in a coaching world and environment? And this is pretty cynical. I'm going to just tell you the honest truth though, where there's just a lot, a lot of coaches. And I would say almost a majority that are not even thinking on that level of impact.
00:58:18
Speaker
Uh, they may not be like the worst coaches in
Motivations and Challenges in Coaching
00:58:20
Speaker
the world where they don't, they're not doing it for ego. They're not out there like loving hearing themselves talk or anything, but They're just not, it's not a, it's not a passion that they're trying to improve. They're just there because they love the sport and it's like very surface level and not to the detriment, but it's like, they're not making the impact. They're not out there trying to right some wrong, you know, which, and and I'm not trying to like minimize your experience, but it is ultimately what you're doing. And, um, like, how does it feel? How does, how would it feel to know that like,
00:58:54
Speaker
Man, that sounds like really shitty now that I ask. There's just so many coaches that are like.
00:59:01
Speaker
I'm just here to collect a paycheck, so to speak. And, they're you know, maybe they're not getting paid, but they're like, I'm just here because I just want watch my kid play. Yeah, that'd be if they're here there to watch their kid play, that's pretty good.
00:59:16
Speaker
But there's also a lot of college level coaches that they're too far gone on their career path. There's nothing else they can do. So they hate their lives. They hate their job. and They're still there. Oh, my God. That's so true. And they're just going to conferences getting smashed. I've seen those dudes, too. And they're just like living out of suitcases. And I get it. i get it.
00:59:37
Speaker
So those exist. Yeah. That's where my mind went when you just continued to go down this despair. But I just want to be honest because it's not.
00:59:50
Speaker
No, but that's real. It's real. And what we we're just we have a like I i like I said, with we were talking about police work. like I truly value just honesty.
01:00:01
Speaker
And so I just think it's that is the situation, you know? So the answer to athletic justice, they're still going to be the one that does listen.
01:00:16
Speaker
And that that that's a win. Like if I can touch just one person. And then that's where people stand on the shoulders of giants. It's true. You have that opportunity.
01:00:27
Speaker
ah you There's been people in your lives and in in your careers and your experience that have then done that for you. Yeah. That matters.
01:00:37
Speaker
So then how can I, and this goes back to the feedback loop and that feedback loop I started with where there's the rebel. There's a lot of coaches. They're going to be no, no, and understand the message I'm saying. But when it comes to apply, they don't have the confidence or the belief in themselves to deliver it. So they're going be like, no, that's garbage.
01:00:58
Speaker
So they'll rebel and they'll build that bubble for themselves until it bursts. When do you think is the prime time where a coach really like starts to be like, oh, this isn't just as easy as blowing a whistle and all this stuff. Oh, well, maybe not self-aware, but like where they're kind of like,
01:01:14
Speaker
they're like they start to Google, all right, coaching lacrosse ah techniques and team dynamics all and then they find you. like Where in the evolution does that happen?
01:01:25
Speaker
And like how do you like harness that? because It happens because, I mean, i would imagine like anything else, you sort of hit a roadblock. You taper off and you're like, oh, I got this one issue where i got this where they're like, I guess I'll Google it. What does chat GPT say about yeah Well, i do I did create a chat GPT for, I'll link this up in the show notes. so I can't remember the stupid thing I called it, but it's like when you run into a problem with an athlete that you can't solve.
01:01:55
Speaker
I hate chat GPT so much. Like we don't need to get on a rant. That's a whole other podcast. But I'm like, when the robots take over, no one will be surprised. Me least of all, because we're all just relying on chat GPT.
01:02:11
Speaker
Well, to go back to your earlier question, yes, for the one and where, I mean, we all, so there's a lot of people on this similar mission. So shout out Jim Davis, Good Athlete Project.
01:02:25
Speaker
So then it's leaning into more and more research that does start to come out for specifically coaching and then connecting it to sport. So it's finding the people that are doing the work, highlighting them yeah and then allowing them to articulate. So this is Yeah, his organization very much, it's like the messaging in terms of like providing the coaches the tools to communicate better with the youth. It's very aligned with what you are doing. It's so it's very similar in terms of like his, I mean, I know his, ah um their end goal is kind of a little bit different, but it's it's a lot of the same. is It's cool to see because
01:03:08
Speaker
much like you, he's a smart guy. i mean, you guys are very aligned in like, I mean, he has seen tangible impact from this and I know you have too. And just because I'm sitting here on the sidelines and I'm like throwing out this pessimistic stuff, it's cause I've seen, i've you know, I also live in the real world too. And, um I'm a little more cynical. so Yeah.
01:03:33
Speaker
and Just a a full circle moment. I'm coaching high school with one of his former high school athletes. Oh, really? Yeah. They went on to play it like a very dominant cross program. So he's like super young guy who's just becoming a coach now. He was one of his athletes then. One of yeah Jim Davis. that's funny. That's cool.
01:03:53
Speaker
Crazy small. Well, that's cool. That just goes to show you, I guess there's good people He's like, I've heard all this before. Doing good. Yeah, exactly. It's like doing good things. sounds familiar. Well, all right. There's the one person that Jim Davis has impacted. That's all it takes.
01:04:06
Speaker
sport yeah Now i work with him. and well there's also there's also people that identify it as a problem, but they don't know a solution exists. So if if I'm trying to scream down that pit of despair at the coach that is refusing to listen, is wearing earmuffs, or doesn't but also doesn't believe that this change can happen, then that's not my this's some my people. Yeah. Yeah.
01:04:33
Speaker
There are athletic directors that have to deal with those cynical coaches that have to manage the problems, the conflict, the communication ah issues those coaches are having.
01:04:47
Speaker
And so they have to deal with it. So now I can connect great with athletic directors. Yeah, yeah. Because here's a solution for the ah the coaches that are not willing to listen. Yeah. Yeah. because now I can equip and work with the, and this is the workshops I was sharing with you, where it is for the student athlete to equip them with the tools to present conflict, create some, uh,
01:05:14
Speaker
some scaffolding in their own brain of confidence of a toolkit to not listen when their coach is a jerk to them and then know who they are well not not not ignoring not putting their head in the sand but hearing that and then realizing that's not who i am why is this person saying that to me and refusing to believe that So giving them some confidence structure tools. Unless it's true, which we, touch unless some, unless some of that negative feedback is true and they're like, Hey, you're late every day. Well, there's constructive feedback. Yeah. And then there's lying to them. Yeah. I guess when we were talking about this earlier, not to like, but it's, that's one of the things too, where i just don't want to see parents and have there be an environment where it's like,
01:06:02
Speaker
um a kid feels like they can do no wrong right where it's just like no you are perfect and just because your coach says that you're you know you need to you need to work on your endurance or whatever it's like no these are quantifiable performance metrics and yeah you actually do need to work on your conditioning or you need to work on your speed or whatever it is so that's so that's something that like i'm like i just feel like maybe societally were like leaning Well, to put a direction towards that. So Dr. David Yeager, Captain's Coaches podcast alum. I am powering down.
01:06:37
Speaker
Research. So he targets three mindsets for for mentors to step in where the first mindset you're talking about now is very common in parents. It's a protector mindset.
01:06:50
Speaker
Where they're super high support, but low expectations, low belief. So why are they so overprotective? It's because they believe their kid is dud. Yeah.
01:07:03
Speaker
So then they go over the top. that is just the worst. I can't imagine... Having a parent, like if my parents thought that about me, man, God, that's so gutting. So there's, there's also the enforcer parent, mentor, coach.
01:07:18
Speaker
That's high expectations and low support. Don't know anything about her.
01:07:26
Speaker
Her. I mean them. So then, ah yeah, then there's ideal mentor, high expectations, high support. Yeah. Okay. That's where I want, that's where i want to aim to be.
01:07:40
Speaker
That's where i want to be. That's yeah. Reset next shot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. um Yeah. So there there are people that are, done they've identified this as a problem.
01:07:53
Speaker
There's people that are aiming to either shine a light on it or do the research to give to people tools before this, I mean, truly is ripple effects into the future leaders of America. Yeah.
01:08:08
Speaker
Well, that is pretty humble of you yeah to say you are raising the future leaders of America. Well, was told to think bigger. Yeah, well, that's pretty big. The leaders
Reflections on Honesty and Communication in Leadership
01:08:20
Speaker
of the free world, I'd say that you're, yeah, setting the bar.
01:08:24
Speaker
It's going be a lax bro, let me tell you. Oh my god. It probably will be. Oh, well, i'm I'm... Powering down. Yeah, I'm i'm stoked for you. 100 episodes.
01:08:37
Speaker
And if this airs at 103, I will not be surprised. Yeah. Given historically what you've said. I'll aim to go know there isn't a try. I heard that in a movie once. Yeah.
01:08:51
Speaker
Dark Vader.
01:08:55
Speaker
Shout out Luke. Jokes are still funny. Yep. They're all mine. Well, we'll call that a show. Yeah. I hope there's a lot of quote-worthy stuff. I know there is. You've jotted down quite a bit.
01:09:08
Speaker
I mean, I don't know what to call this. Coaching colloquials? Colloquialisms, yep. Paleo-quil-alert. It's in there. It's in there somewhere. It's been a pleasure.
01:09:20
Speaker
Well, it's been real. It's been fun. It's been real fun. Well, thank you for tuning in, and we'll see again 200. See you at 200. I will be 100 years old.
01:09:34
Speaker
that a dig? I'll still be around then? That's bad one. It's simulation, so. Alright. Let's see.