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Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 67 - Squashing Rumors!
1.1k Plays8 days ago
Hosts: Joel Engelberth, Tom Graf and Travis Murie
Today we recorded with no real agenda and still ended up talking for 2+ hours. Buckle up as we cover Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Cactus Canyon Lyman Sheats Upgrade Kit, X-Men, John Wick, Tom’s Microwave, some overall game theory, Evil Dead, DUNE, and a bunch of other pinball talk. There was some tournament talk and strategy sprinkled in there as Tom and Travis prepare for PAPA. Oh yeah, we also set the record straight on some rumors. Thanks for reading this description and for clicking on the show. Enjoy!
Thanks again for all the support everyone:)
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Shoutout to Jackson Gee and his incredible artwork. jacksongee.com
Shoutout to Brad Johanson and his company Alter Creative Media for his intro video. Altercreativemedia.com
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Transcript
Podcasting Challenges and Gratitude
00:00:04
Speaker
we're three guys who like the talking ball three guys clever name pinball why is he doing that
00:00:23
Speaker
I'm already losing it. What are you doing, Joel? what does that What do you mean? Like Tom and I are having fun and you're just staring straight into the camera all stoic like it's a mugshot, like you're...
00:00:35
Speaker
mountain man mugshot video and i was getting the buttons all aligned to make sure we're good to get just i got don't worry you're focus you're professional somebody's got to drive the bus and sorry that that person was concentrating were crashing no going on the bus yeah tom we got to do joel impression okay you ready one two three go ah Hey guys. No, he went visual. He went visual. Yeah, yeah. There we go. No, that's a good one too. You did good, Tom.
00:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's perfect. You it All right, Joel, you can start now. Tom and so I will just be here. Okay. ah Welcome back, everybody. It's been a while, but we are here. We were waiting. I don't know. Star Wars is coming.
00:01:20
Speaker
that's just That's the joy of when you podcast like once a month. You podcast something, and then there's always big news. so So we're like, eh, should we wait now? We wait a long enough. Eh, we'll... well Whatever. We're here. Let's take 30 seconds to apologize for not podcasting. We usually do that a lot. Let's just do We do We do. it We're a very apologetic podcast. That's what the listeners want to hear about. They just want hear us grovel to them. We do. oh so sorry. Well, thank you. Thank you for clicking on it. so um Thank you. No.
00:01:49
Speaker
ah We're busy and life is busy, but whatever. Hey, thank you for once again, thank you for all the Patriot ad supporters we have for sticking through, sticking with us. I mean, yeah really, that's thank you so much for ah for that.
00:02:00
Speaker
um We were kind of doing our pre recording meeting and our agenda is ah wide open. we but got We got we're just going to talk a little bit about ah a lot. So i have to talk.
00:02:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We're going to talk a little bit. we You know what? Let's just start with Tom. Let's just get him out the way. Here we go.
00:02:30
Speaker
Wow. Are you going to take that, Tom? I'm doing my best Joel impersonation. He's like, let's just get Tom out of the way. That's what you said. What mean that's not what you meant? I said, okay, so here we go. Tom promised two
Harry Potter Pinball: Praise and Criticism
00:02:43
Speaker
minutes. Let's see if he can get... my worth on this podcast, everybody. Let's see if we can get to the two minutes. So Tom is the only one of us that has ah Harry Potter. Travis doesn't have access to a Harry Potter frequently, but Tom does. It's in his basement, and I will tell you from the behind the scenes, he's playing the heck out of it.
00:03:01
Speaker
So Tom, let's I want to hear the extended... What is it? You've owned it now month plus. what what's What's your overall extended... View of ownership of Harry Potter. Thoughts, feelings.
00:03:12
Speaker
Go. It could be better than Rush. What?
00:03:18
Speaker
What? What? Seriously. What? It could be better. What? It could be better than Rush. could be better. Okay. That was unexpected. You know how much I like Rush.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. Well, apparently you don't love Rush anymore, but you like it. No, I love it. He's fallen out of love with Rush, Joel. Okay, go ahead, Tom. Rush came out of the gate, though, being held back by one thing.
00:03:42
Speaker
Raymond Davidson. Besides that, had the opportunity to a great female machine. I thought it was the Rush music, but... No, no, Okay, tell me more about Harry Potter. ah I mean, what do you want to know, Joel?
00:03:56
Speaker
How is it better than... how yeah how how is this How has this gotten to where it is in your list of great games? ah Like... like ah there's there's some magic there. Let's just put it that way. like i like I like the shots.
00:04:15
Speaker
i like I like the flow of it. Well, let's focus on that then. sure Mechanically, mechanically you know a lot of there's a lot of people that don't buy games based on theme. They buy it based on the layout or code. So let's break those down. Layout-wise, the more you've played it what do you love about the layout? Maybe is there anything you don't like about the layout?
00:04:35
Speaker
Uh, I, I, actually like how the bookcase changes your shots and the, the, uh, center ramp. Like it's always something different, but you know where it's going to come from based on the lights on the play field.
00:04:51
Speaker
So staircase spinning and all that. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yep. Okay. Right. And then um what about the fact that you don't have wire forms that are just gently leading the ball back to your flipper?
00:05:02
Speaker
You know, do you like that speed of that out lane type of feed? It's a little different. It takes some getting used to, but I do like it. and And Joel, the the scoop is not the hardest shot in pinball. I didn't say it was the hardest shot in pinball. You said that.
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah, i I did not say it was the hardest shot in pinball. uh what ah okay so let's transfer over to code code i don't mean it's been a while since i've played it have they changed uh what have you seen code improvement wides or changes over time or not much or what where you know little little bits and things um the the Some of the ah movie scenes are starting to come out a little bit more. Like, you can hear the audio and stuff, but... I mean, there's...
00:05:56
Speaker
there's
00:05:58
Speaker
There's subtle changes. It's not like huge changes. It's it's more like bug fixes and things like that. But um I will say it's refreshing to have a game that's like actually mostly finished.
00:06:16
Speaker
True. Yeah. Compared to some other games. Yeah, that's fair. that ah it's Even when I was playing it, you know like right out of the gate, I felt like the game felt pretty complete.
00:06:29
Speaker
Now I know, what is it? Deathly Hallows, which is when you get all the Horcruxes, that's like one of the final wizard modes. Yeah, I was so close one night to starting that.
00:06:39
Speaker
Okay. And it was flashing and it was like, shoot the scoop. Oh, so then the scoop was hard to hit. Is that? No, I just i just fumbled
00:06:52
Speaker
From what? Because it was hard to hit? The pinball, Joel. He fumbled the pinball. Did it go down the middle? Where'd go? oh
Pinball Machine Nuances and Comparisons
00:07:01
Speaker
no. It went right down the middle.
00:07:03
Speaker
Oh, Old man. real Real quick question. On JJP Games, do you change the setting from number of tilts to ball or to game? Do you leave it as tilts per game?
00:07:14
Speaker
To ball on every one. Yeah. I don't i don't know... For those of that don't know, JJP games by default, they give you two warnings for the entire game. That's it.
00:07:26
Speaker
And then you tilt. While every other pinball machine ever, it's you get it per ball. And so that's one of the first things I ever change. If you disagree with that, write in to triple drain at gmail.com. Tell us why that's the better option, but I might just delete the email.
00:07:41
Speaker
It's a JJP thing. It's like P3, like a bunch of scoops come up or like, you know, That's an innovation that needs to die immediately. Well, what the best thing they do about it, though, is the fact that there's now in pretty much every JDP game, there's some light somewhere that indicates what danger you're on. So it actually like visually, without having to go to instant info, you can see how many dangers you've used or not used, which is pretty cool.
00:08:09
Speaker
But like if i if I'm playing a game and like I'm trying to save a ball in the beginning of it because I want to progress further in the game. And now I'm pretty much in jail. Although I guess you can like get awards to like get another tilt back or whatever. but Yeah, yeah.
00:08:32
Speaker
I'm sure some people like you, Joel, love it, but I don't really care for it. I change it. um You know what? I'll even em admit this. I don't care. I'll admit it. If I'm getting a game from Zach and it's brand new and I have to set it up, I don't even put the tilt bob in.
00:08:47
Speaker
i've just I've just embraced it at this point. That's fair. It's like, eh, that's one more thing to add. And honestly, I get enough heckling from ah people that watch our streams that I suck. So anything that can help me progress deeper in the game, show more of the game, I'm all fine at this point. By the way, how's your audio doing?
00:09:06
Speaker
no It sounds real good right now, but I see what you're doing there. We'll get to that, Tom. any other going any other ah Any other comments on ah any other thoughts on Harry Potter?
00:09:19
Speaker
ah I would just say to people, check it out. a I mean, there is a lot there, of course, but I think it's a fun game. I think it's definitely top 10 games. I paused it. I paused it. I thought I heard a pause.
00:09:34
Speaker
No, no. You said it's fun game. I'm so sorry. I thought there was a good transition, so I clicked the button and I jumped the gun. I jumped the gun. I'm not going to swear, everybody. You were saying, Tom, it's a good game. It's a top. And what were You think it's a top 10 game?
00:09:48
Speaker
I think it's top 10 game. And that was good time? Flawless. Top 10 game. Top 10 game, Travis.
00:10:05
Speaker
flawless top ten top ten game travis I feel like the middle child right now trapped between older brother and little brother, just squabbling. Just trying be a good team.
00:10:16
Speaker
You know, ah we're trying to work well together. so you're trying to my team You're like the dad who's like, just let him fight it out. We'll figure it out. it um ah Unless somebody has to go to the hospital, I'll break it up.
00:10:29
Speaker
would you say it's it is Would you say it's your favorite JJP game then? Yes, for sure. yeah with I think Elton John's a close second. But you don't own it, which I understand. it's I don't, and that's more, I guess, because a cost.
00:10:47
Speaker
Although if i might pick one up used, to be honest. i Harry Potter has definitely put, in my eyes, a good light on Jersey Jack pinball that I haven't had for a long time.
00:11:01
Speaker
that's That's a good, that's a quote. They should market that, you know? They should. Maybe not, because then it says that it they were bad. But now theyre but they should take pride. That's a good statement. Comgraph approved.
00:11:12
Speaker
I'm not being a shill. Because, like, I hate Wizard of Oz. Let's let's be honest. So, like, now now that I said that, like, it's going to show up at District 82. Okay. I'm i'm excited for you. you're confirming here as the owner of District 82. You're bringing it to Wazen. right um i honestly i'm harry potter was here harry potter is left obviously but it's i do think about that game i do think about that game i miss the way that game shoots um it's i i really i really enjoyed my time on harry potter but travis played harry potter the other day and wait before we go there i just want to say something joel um
00:11:52
Speaker
um And it is regards to District 82. So I was at the Summer Pinball Classic. Joel, you can take off your headphones if you don't want to.
00:12:05
Speaker
I had so many people come up to me and were like, why aren't you streaming? And I'm like, kind of like, where have you been in the last year? Yeah. um i I literally had somebody in my group berate me.
00:12:22
Speaker
Berate me because I was not streaming. They were like, Hey, look, I drove 11 hours to be here. And I was like, and i kind of politely said to him, like, I'm sorry. Mm-hmm.
00:12:41
Speaker
But that is not my fault. that's say At least you didn't give him an angry sorry. yeah That's good. You're polite about it. I really held it back because like I was biting my tongue.
00:12:54
Speaker
You felt like a dancing monkey at that point? Like, let me throw some ones at your feet, go stream. I mean, I literally, at least had 25 to 30 people come up to me and like, what the hell?
00:13:07
Speaker
You didn't redirect them to the person that made that decision? I did, but, but you know, yeah it's just not, there's, like here's the real question. Will we see Tom graph stream at district district 82 again?
00:13:26
Speaker
Yes. There you go. And when's that going to happen? In June of next year for the IFPA World Championship. There you go.
00:13:38
Speaker
That's exciting. Thank Josh, and the IFPA for allowing me to do that. That's awesome. That's awesome. And what else are you streaming coming up? oh Oh, yeah we got Papa coming up.
00:13:52
Speaker
Yeah. We'll talk about that a little bit later. What else do you have streaming coming up? Slaps. Slaps. don't know what Slap is. It's a Louis area pinball championship. Oh, that's your thing. Slap C, Joel. Geez.
00:14:07
Speaker
tournament pin I know you're a huge tournament player, Joel. You took 89th once at Klee Pin three years ago. I get it. I get it. and And Joel, what else do I have coming up streaming?
00:14:18
Speaker
ah You got a hot tub, right? No, you you go to it every year. Oh, you're you're streaming Chicago Pinball Expo. That is correct. Yeah. And if you want, I mean, I, Jared and i are happy to sit down and talk to the mics. we will We will dust off the booth for you.
00:14:34
Speaker
to Looking forward to it. We need to get you two with ah Bob Matthews in the booth. No, no. Yes. Yes. I'm going to, yeah, I'm going to. match So here's my problem with Jared.
00:14:47
Speaker
Are you trying to eliminate my viewers? no Jared is starting to get a little bit of confidence in like his, his, uh, you know, like, like he, he has an opinion, his opinions valid, you know? So it's like, he's starting to get that little bit of confidence of like, I know a little bit about what's going on. So before he was a little more cautious or like, didn't want to step on anybody's toes. Now he's just like, nah, I'll step all over him. I don't care. yeah That's why we need him and Bob Matthews in the booth together. I think it'd be freaking hilarious.
00:15:16
Speaker
I'm all for the entertainment. Well, um we have tournament talk to do. We will do that. Just to wrap up Harry Potter, though. Travis, you have played Harry Potter. I did. played two games on it.
00:15:27
Speaker
And tell us, what was the what was your experience? It took forever. It took forever. it's I think our game two, I played two-player game. I won't say their name out loud in case they don't want to ah be rebuilt. But they are. They are.
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah, they are a listener of the podcast, though. And they had like a fantastic game, the second game where they made it all the way through to, I guess it was Deathly Hallows and or Al Multiball, something else like there's all this stuff going off is like over a billion point game. But anyways, so the game between both of us, it took like 80 minutes.
00:16:03
Speaker
just to play it. And this on location at Atomic. The game took freaking forever. And the first game probably still took 20 minutes. And that was just us flipping around, figuring it out. So, I mean, it's just, it's a long player. It's, I enjoy the, uh, the layout overall. There's some parts to it that I'm kind of like, okay, I'm not sure why this is here, but there's other parts that I'm like, okay, yeah, this is pretty sweet. Like I want to hit the shot over and over again.
00:16:27
Speaker
yeah Um, in terms of the rules, I don't know yet. Like i'm I'm not me personally. And this is just my personal preference. So I don't want to sound like I'm just shitting all over the rules. Cause I had a fun time, but my personal preference is not to have the game basically grabbing me by the collar of my shirt and dragging me to the finish line, which is what it felt like with the lessons and everything, because there was just a timer that just kept going. Right. And even if you failed it, you got points. Even if you didn't hit a switch, it would just keep going. So it wants you to get through it, but.
00:17:02
Speaker
I don't know. It's like, I felt like I was playing. So I've never read the books. I've watched all the movies multiple times, my kids and everything. It didn't feel like that. I was in the Harry Potter universe at times, right? Like the immersion of it in terms of like, if I got into a movie, like nothing about that felt like I was living the scenes of the movie at all. It just didn't.
00:17:26
Speaker
Now in terms of, because there's just so much else
Integrating Themes into Pinball Games
00:17:29
Speaker
going on. Sure. All the same time. Right. Everything's on top of each other. So it's hard to differentiate that. And there's so many, like there's so much input coming in.
00:17:38
Speaker
right With the lights, the sounds, call outs. I have like the Mark Silk pinball caddy in my ear going off. I can hear him talking. There's just so much going on. so I don't know. I think it might be to where I just need to play it more to try to isolate those things and understand what's going on a little bit more.
00:17:57
Speaker
But... We generally just found that we could just mow through the game by doing multi balls, just letting the things stack as they do. Now, I will say the upper play field, I really enjoyed that.
00:18:09
Speaker
I love how the upper play field shoots to where it wraps around up top on the on the ramp, comes back around to the flipper. You can hit like the little short orbit. Like I thought that the way that they did the upper play field was really awesome.
00:18:22
Speaker
The diverter I liked for the most part, there was only a couple of times to where it felt like sometimes when that staircase diverter would take the ball to the upper flipper, the ball would sometimes spin away from my flipper. Like it happened like 50, 50 on the copy that I played.
00:18:38
Speaker
I don't know why that is. And sometimes it'd have like ramp rejects too. That would happen. But I mean, that's it's pinball. I don't, it's not game breaking or anything like that. Just observations. And I will say for me, the scoop kiddos were, you know, like mute me right now. if you got kids, I'm going to say it right now. That scoop for me.
00:18:58
Speaker
Fucking hard. I could not hit it. I was like one for eight. It just took, i mean, I got dialed in a couple of times, but there was a few spurts to where it was like, Five or six tries, and I just was not hitting it. I had an easier time hitting the under the flipper shot. Like that shot is easy because that's like, you know, that's a normal shot if you played Star Trek or anything like that, Ninja Turtles. So that shot I felt a lot better on, but everything else like just felt good.
00:19:25
Speaker
The returns were way different though, right? It's like that that return on the left flipper, yeah The timing is just impossible. It's fast. Yeah. It's like, good luck. Like I watched a few people play it after me that obviously were just kind of like super casual pinball players, right?
00:19:45
Speaker
Nobody that listens to this podcast. There's no casuals that listen here. Like, let's get that right. Right. Reference to two years ago. Tom knows what i'm talking about. Anyways, so I did watch some super casuals play the game.
00:19:57
Speaker
And even after the first warning, because I think the game, the software lets you know that this is going to happen, right? That post comes up. Isn't that what happens? So after that...
00:20:08
Speaker
It was just a hilarity of watching like the ball just zip right past them like a 105 mile an hour fastball. They're just whiffing on. It just goes flying right past their flipper. And I think it's just, it just takes some time getting used to, right? Because no wire form. If you don't know where the ball path is, it's screaming back at you.
00:20:26
Speaker
But, you know, other than that, there's a, um, there's a mode. It's like a loop in something. It's like the Phoenix mode or whatever, where it's just meant for you to hit that. And it, it's like after the second loop, that ball is whizzing down the left side so fast that I don't, there's no way there's, it's so fast.
00:20:45
Speaker
Um, but it's, I don't know. It's it kind of, it's fun. It's, it's a fun. And the, the death eater shot, I had a lot more fun with that than what I thought I would. yeah Like with the target that pops up and if you lock it in there, it comes screaming back at you. I thought that was well done, well integrated. So that felt good overall. But I mean, yeah, I could see why people people enjoy the game. I mean, if you're a Harry Potter fan, and don't see why you wouldn't like the game. I would just like to see, oh i mean, I know this isn't going to happen because it's just the direction that they're going with the code.
00:21:14
Speaker
I just wish that there was a little bit more differentiation of me knowing that I'm in a scene, me knowing that I'm progressing something like in the movie and I feel that moment, but I just, for whatever reason, the rules and the actual layout of the pen, they just don't gel in that way.
00:21:34
Speaker
And, you know, just kind of is what it is, but I guess that's just something to get used to. The other parts the game are pretty sweet though. So. There's clearly, um you know, you said it's a long player, but if you're if you're trying to essentially cram eight movies worth of stuff into a game, like you don't want it to be brutal, right? Because then nobody's going to see anything. But i mean at the same time how do you put all that without it and yet have every moment be, i don't know, special?
00:21:59
Speaker
you know there's you There's zero way to do it. Yeah, there's just zero way to do it. I think a lot of it comes down to what is your overall strategy as to what you envision a game to be right from a yeah game development because your whole idea is you want a certain loop to happen and you need that game loop to happen you need to seriously compress it down to like hooks right to the first 10 seconds 15 seconds 30 seconds minute five minutes because not everybody's going to get up there and play for an hour you know it's just not reality some people are just going to have a five minute game so how do you show them
00:22:33
Speaker
several movies in five minutes. You just don't. Yeah, you can't. you know Yeah, there's there's no way to. so you know, I don't know. I think this this game, playing it and watching enough streams of it, watching enough people play it, it's kind of solidified for me that I'm not on board with having any like any movie or anything that has that many modes or that many movies to go over.
00:22:59
Speaker
Just because it's, you're either going to leave too much out or you're going to stuff too much in. I don't see any balance that's possible in the game of pinball. I just don't, I just don't think the physical game itself is designed around that unless you're willing to put an infinite ball saver on and somebody knows that they're going to flipping for 30 to 45 minutes.
00:23:19
Speaker
At the end of the day, do you feel that Harry Potter could have been better if it was just the first movie? I feel like Harry Potter, like and this is like, again, guys, like I think the three of us know this. like It's licensing. It runs in all different directions. So there's you know the the image that we have in our heads, what it could be,
00:23:41
Speaker
This is probably not even realistic anyways, because our imaginations has no budget, has no limitations. yeah But if there was no limitations, nothing, I would have loved to seen it just split up into maybe like the first three movies or something like that. And then the next year they come out with another, you know, the next three movies or something like that. If manufacturing and license wasn't any issue whatsoever, just because you'd be able to experience more. I think Harry Potter fans would be perfectly fine with that as well.
00:24:10
Speaker
You know, I mean, it's kind of, it's kind of how things are designed with consumption anyways. Right. It's not, it's not like somebody is going say, okay, i'm going to, going binge watch the Harry Potter series by playing all eight movies at the exact same time. We're going to work this out together. So, yeah but that's just, that that's the limitations of pinball though.
00:24:29
Speaker
Right? I mean, it's not, it yeah, that's not just Harry Potter. we We've seen that in other games as well. So sure just my personal preference. I don't know. I just want to enjoy the movies, Joel. I want to, I don't want to play pinball. I want to watch the movie on a big screen on a pinball machine.
00:24:43
Speaker
Well, let's use this as a transition then. ah One game you cannot watch the movie on. is Jurassic Park. it's your husband work There are no movie clips. it's It's in the world of Jurassic Park.
00:24:56
Speaker
So I'm borrowing right now. This a premium um Jurassic Park ah by Stern. Keith Elwin game. ah Just right off the bat, where do you rank in all the in the and the world of Elwin?
00:25:06
Speaker
Where do you two rank Jurassic Park? It's up there. I think it's at the top. You think it's his best game, Travis. I do.
00:25:17
Speaker
I do. I mean, i don't have it here anymore because it's time to move on. I have access to a bunch of games, but no, me personally, I think it's one of the top ones. I think it's a great example too of what you can do with the property.
00:25:29
Speaker
by focusing on the key elements of the property. so But if we're comparing you know Jurassic Park to Harry Potter, it is a little bit different because on yeah honestly, outside of Nedry, none of the other characters were more iconic than the dinosaurs themselves.
00:25:46
Speaker
yeah So I would say if Harry Potter did something like that, it would be more about having the three core characters of Harry Potter, right? The three kids. Yeah, And then making like some new adventure with them. That's what, to me, that's the equivalent of it.
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't think we've talked about that. yeah I don't think you can get away with that with Harry Potter. yeah it would be right I mean, there's plenty of people that are still upset that Jurassic Park doesn't have clips for the movie or main character. I mean, there's a whole ah version of movie code that people are throwing around the Internet to put on this. But but Tom, so you think you would you do you think this is his best game? do You think it's like top one or two? Where where where do you where do you put Jurassic Park?
00:26:26
Speaker
i I think it's like one or two. Yeah. Because i I really like Iron Maiden. Okay. okay you Maybe Godzilla. I mean, Godzilla is great too.
00:26:40
Speaker
You know. um so jared and i we streamed jurassic park before and honestly we didn't love it we didn't we didn't love it and and and the reason being we thought it was we just thought it was hard but daughter was hardr we thought it was hard we thought the layout was hard and then um it's one of his most linear games and and and it's just it was something and what i mean i don't that was our thought at the time but it was like if the game was hard it's like what are we experiencing over and over again t-rex multi-ball in the first one or two paddocks that was just that was our experience with jurassic park the first time we streamed it um we streamed it the other week and it now has co-op mode and co-op mode is so great it's so great i love it at least with our skill level to be able to play the game together and allow us to get deeper into the game it's awesome um but now that we've played it more and we've gotten better as players
00:27:33
Speaker
i really liked terry sorry now harry I really enjoyed my time with Jurassic Park. um You just heard it here. Joel does not like Harry Potter. Yeah.
00:27:44
Speaker
I really enjoyed. Jared and I had a lot of fun with Jurassic Park. And he even mentioned it ah like a few days later. He's like, I'm annoyed because I'm thinking about Jurassic Park now and why it's like...
00:27:56
Speaker
Like cousin for a long time, it was Godzilla was the one to beat. And then we had Jaws and Jared's like, Joel, I want you to have Jaws. I want you to sell your Godzilla and get Jaws. Jaws is better. But he
Admiration for Jurassic Park Pinball
00:28:06
Speaker
had like we had such a blast on Jurassic Park.
00:28:08
Speaker
um That layout, as challenging as it is, is fantastic. It's so much fun to shoot. um And then I did a tutorial for Jurassic Park, so I had to really learn the game.
00:28:21
Speaker
And that's when you realize just how brilliant that game is. The way that you can conquer it and and the paddocks and the modes and supply drop and ah the super missile shot. It's just, wow. like i'm really i've I've really grown in my overall respect for Jurassic Park.
00:28:40
Speaker
um Do I... I don't know where I'd rate it at this point. I would definitely put it above Avengers. Um, and I don't know.
00:28:51
Speaker
I don't know. I, I think personally, I think I would own a Jurassic park before I'd own iron maiden, but that's mostly based on theme. I really, really enjoyed iron maiden as well, but still where I'm, you know, the top two in my mind are still jaws and Godzilla.
00:29:05
Speaker
Um, But I'm missing King Kong. I am genuinely missing King Kong. The more that they've added to the code, the more that I just really hope I have another opportunity to stream it. So ah you guys both have access to Kong all the time.
00:29:18
Speaker
ah Tom, you got one right behind you. ah Code updates or changes in the game. Has your enjoyment of Kong gone up, down? Is it still pretty neutral? Where are you at and on the game overall file? We'll let we it Tim go first.
00:29:36
Speaker
Tom was called Tim the other day, and yeah we just love it. Because I didn't bring my streaming stuff to him. How dare you? That Tim guy didn't bring... That Tim guy's an a-hole, let me tell you. Yeah.
00:29:50
Speaker
Dick. Um... um um and Sorry, what was it? No, Kong. Yeah. ah No, i like I like the direction it's going.
00:30:03
Speaker
the There's more of the New York City events. There's the treasure map now is making sense. um I saw Carl D'Angelo just annihilate the game IU Pinball.
00:30:20
Speaker
yeah That was like super fun to watch. Carl doing Carl things, yep. I wouldn't be surprised if it's nerfed before Papa, but... Can you explain the treasure map?
00:30:33
Speaker
What does that add to the game? ah It's just like a bunch of different modes. So like basically you have these lit golden arrows every time you start it and then you got to shoot those and try to finish it at the, ah what is it? The cave shot.
00:30:51
Speaker
Okay. So. And it gives you points, a reward, a perk, or what? Points and perks. Points and perks. Okay. Yeah. Nice. So the still the main premise of it, or like when you step up to the game, I know you got your modes.
00:31:07
Speaker
And then I know what I really enjoyed about the New York City modes, though, is there's always yellow shots lit at all time and you're working your way up the building. So the further you go, um once you get far enough, you'll start in New York City mode. The New York City modes, there's now how many in the game? Three?
00:31:23
Speaker
There's three and it's really cool because you can pick like you can play one as a multiball. You can play one as like a ah flips mode, kind of like ah Soul Gem and Avengers or like like Terra Mechagodzilla. Okay.
00:31:43
Speaker
Godzilla. Yeah. um or you can play it as just a single ball which i kind of like that like oh i can decide what i want to do in these like three things yeah it gives you options kind of neat you know um um There were a lot of people when Kong was announced, ah we heard from people inside Stern. We heard people that have played this. A lot of people were saying we you know they they feel that Kong is Keith's best layout.
00:32:10
Speaker
um Do you guys agree with that statement? And what's... I don't know. did you feel like that...
00:32:18
Speaker
I don't know if it's his best layout, but I think like for somebody like Travis or like Carl, I think it's maybe one of like an easier layout to get down kind of thing.
00:32:35
Speaker
like It's definitely easier than, say, Jurassic Park if you're not not used to shooting either game. okay all right no i'd agree with that i i think personally i think it's his best layout that he's done just because it has it has the callbacks that i like specifically like the uh quicksilver shots right with the um with the drop targets so if you're not familiar with that just look up quicksilver pinball and you'll see exactly what i'm talking about so something like that really enjoy and there's just
00:33:06
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, all of his layouts are usually pretty spot on. I mean, we all know that that's baked into the cake with an LN design, but this in particular, there's just certain nuances about it that I can really appreciate. Like being able to sweep targets and have that go all the way around through a spinner to an upper flipper shot.
00:33:25
Speaker
Right. And then you just whip it around that biplane side ramp. Like that's a cool sequence right there. And I really like how he's created just the, a little mini diverter type shot to where it feeds the upper flipper.
00:33:39
Speaker
pretty much spot on every single time. I think every game moving forward for all companies should have that as the standard because not having the keyhole there, right. With the ball there, like just making it spin away. You're talking about wire itself. Right. Instead of it being dropped through a hole, it kind of deflects up. Yeah. Off like a rubber pad or something like that. I still don't even know what we call that.
00:34:01
Speaker
I mean, I wish there was like an official name for it. There probably is. And I just don't know, but yeah, Whatever that is, I need to know the official name for it because, i mean, it feeds the upper flipper perfect. Like the majority of time, I would say for me, it's easily above 95% success rate.
00:34:17
Speaker
And I played on multiple versions of Kong pros and premiums at multiple locations just to see. So stuff like that, it's it's nuances like that to me that really shows the thoughtfulness in a design.
00:34:31
Speaker
That you're actually thinking of, okay, not just how does this one shot shoot? It's how does completing the shot, how does it lead to the next thing? Right? And then designs, not necessarily just that it could also be okay. What happens when I miss a shot?
00:34:47
Speaker
Where is the ball going to go? And that's what makes the upper left side so great. That's its own little mini ecosystem that has that mini left flipper up there that from a design standpoint, I love this. Like if I ever did a homebrew or something like this, this is exactly what I would do with a flipper too.
00:35:03
Speaker
The fact that the way that it sets at the angle it does, it almost sets like at a horizontal angle to allow for a different type of shot at that left ramp, that mini flipper up top. So stuff like that, that's a little bit different.
00:35:17
Speaker
That's different nuances right there that I can really appreciate. And then with the bridge, with the low, or sorry, the log diverter. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that, I think is pretty cool too. That it's controllable.
00:35:29
Speaker
You could decide just to trap up with that upper flipper and let it go down, or you can decide to hit a ramp. You can decide to try to hit the drop targets. Like there's little things like that. When you can take a, when you can take a design and give yourself options at different parts of a play field,
00:35:46
Speaker
I think stuff like that, it's, you know, I think it's great choices no matter who's designing it. So for the future, stuff like that is just a lot more exciting. So if I had to compare it to something, just to give an example of something that may not be as exciting, it could be something like,
00:36:02
Speaker
how the upper area works on Mandalorian, right? That's on the pro to where it just goes into that one little area. You have a flipper and you're just spamming everything there. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, so I get it. It could work on some, but that's just to give an example of the difference when you really confine an ecosystem to just have one area of a play field, just to do one thing compared to expanding it a little bit and letting you do multiple different things.
00:36:29
Speaker
with that so that's the type of design i personally enjoy and i don't like obviously it can't happen on every game but if it could sure it'd be pretty cool so do you like the upper left corner of kong more or the upper left corner of harry potter more they both i mean you've kong 100 kong yeah and the reason why is because on harry potter you can like i got to one point to where i was just spamming the upper ramp over and over again for like seven and a half or 9 million a shot.
00:37:00
Speaker
And I just did that like 10, 15 times in a row, which, you know, I mean, that's more of a software thing allowing you to do that too. But points. Yeah. Yeah. But there's nothing about the upper left area of Kong in which I'm just going to spam the same thing over and over again. I have to get back. I have to get the ball back there somehow. Right. Cause if I hit the left ramp, it's going to the right side of the play field. yeah I hit target. Yeah. Yeah. Right. If I hit the drop targets out, you know,
00:37:29
Speaker
That's what I like about It's like its own little mini playfield, but you're in and out of it. It's so well designed. And i that was something I noticed when I had Harry Potter, which was there were games that I realized I wasn't.
00:37:39
Speaker
You can kind of ignore the left ramp. You can kind of ignore the upper playfield unless you need it for a mode shot or unless you need your you're wanting to qualify the Quidditch multiball that point.
00:37:50
Speaker
Otherwise, you can kind of ignore it while Kong, like because that upper little left ecosystem that you're calling it, it was still ingrained in the rest of the pinball machine. You're still shooting around that area.
00:38:01
Speaker
But whether or not you're diverting to the upper left flipper or what, like you're still hitting the left orbit. You're still hitting stuff over there on the left. I don't know. I didn't let you answer. Did you do you which do you prefer the Kong upper left or the the Harry Potter upper left?
00:38:14
Speaker
I'd say Kong just because it's, I mean, they're both different, but yeah, I mean, for basically the same reasons Travis said. yeah it's just It's a, it go ahead.
00:38:28
Speaker
No, it's just different. Yeah. I, I think your comparison to Mando pro is actually really good because I think Mando pro, all the shots feel like they're close, right? The main, the main shots are are closer. And then he kind of did something in the back with the, the um Grogu area and with, which is just in lanes. And then they did the mini play field in the the back, right. But it's,
00:38:52
Speaker
But those are so, they feel like separate sections of a game. While essentially Elwin has the same thought, everything's on the same play field, but yet it can be its own thing.
00:39:06
Speaker
but yet it also can just, you can shoot all around it and within it. um Yeah, that's kind of, yeah, it's like, pretty good yeah, exactly. It's like, it's a design choice that is a, it's an extreme balance, right? Like every designer has to figure this out. Like, how do I make a full size play field and get somebody to want to engage with that entire game and get it to where things don't feel like a grind, right? Because you don't want things to feel like a grind close to the start button.
00:39:37
Speaker
If you want a game to get grindy, it happens. Like if you play it long enough, of course, any game could be grindy because you're going for wizard mode or you're having to play the same mode over and over again, get to the same spot.
00:39:47
Speaker
But you want that to happen late in the game, like mid game to late game. So if you can get a design and rules set to where you entice the player to experience different parts of the play field and you get them in and out,
00:40:01
Speaker
That's to me, that's the mark of an excellent thought process and an excellent design. And every designer is capable of it. We see it in different parts. All you got to do is just look at a play field and imagine it in sections.
00:40:13
Speaker
Like you got your upper left section, your upper right, your middle, your lower middle, your lower left, lower right. Like every pinball machine has this. sure we could look We could look at Harry Potter. Harry Potter is the same thing, right?
00:40:23
Speaker
You have the upper play field. Right. Your upper left area. Then you got the lower right area because you got a scoop. You got a spinner that kicks back around to the right. You got an upper flipper that you can hit underneath.
00:40:35
Speaker
So there's little things like that to where you have certain design choices. that entices a player and makes a player want to go for it. And it's enjoyable to do like, that's just, that's the balance they try to find. Now I don't want to sound like I'm just glazing Kong nonstop. I will tell you straight up. We talked about this before.
00:40:53
Speaker
Like I'm not a fan of the spider like yeah at all, you know, like yeah it hitting that shot. Like it's kind of whatever hitting, you know, some targets right there with the magnet. Like we've seen that before. It's just the spider coming down and hitting the ball. You know, it's,
00:41:07
Speaker
I don't know if I'm fan. that gong. Oh gosh, the gong. Hey, I don't mind the gong. I just don't like it when the gong Fs me over and sends a ball flight. But, but, but there is a middle post right there. So that's more, that's, I know that's user, that's user error.
00:41:26
Speaker
I know. I know. like start travis That's a great example, though. If we're thinking ecosystems and comparing it like it's different areas, look at Kong and Harry Potter. compared yike You could even do Evil Dead, Harry Potter, Kong, right?
00:41:39
Speaker
Let's compare it to Alice in Wonderland. Sure. we could We could do that as well. Look at the upper right or the area around there. So what harry potter you had Harry Potter, you have like a ramp that's a diverter, like the staircase that goes around.
00:41:54
Speaker
Right. King Kong. You have a physical mech there. That's the gong. Right. Alice in Wonderland. You have whatever over there. I can't even think of the my head. I'm sure there's something over there. It's under the upper play field. Yeah. Yeah. You just don't know what it is. Yeah. It's there. And then, you know, and then Evil Dead happens to be a ramp that's there that might go up, might go up or down. Yeah.
00:42:14
Speaker
Right. So now when you look at that and you're analyzing a play field or you're thinking about what's fun, now you got
Analyzing Pinball Designs
00:42:20
Speaker
to decide is the actual physical nature of that just as a white would, you don't think about the code or anything like that.
00:42:26
Speaker
Is it fun? Yeah. Right. So staircase moving all around, sending the ball over, probably fun. The gong for a lot of people, probably fun. Not you. though Not me though. Cause it just kicks my ass. Not me. No, no, no fun. Yep. No fun gong. But, but I get it. Right. And so, sure and then you look at evil dead.
00:42:47
Speaker
Some people might like that a ramp flaps open, catch it. Some people might be like, okay, compared to everything else, it's not really that much, right? So that's the key part of it. you're focusing on one section of the game. Right, then you to section. There's a other Evil Dead. Well, that's the point.
00:43:03
Speaker
Good. sure So point point out one mech that's on Evil Dead since we're going to compare all three. Like, what's the one I mean, I can say the hand, but you don't like the hand. Well, no, it doesn't matter. show It doesn't matter what I like. This is like everybody. Everybody has an opinion.
00:43:16
Speaker
Okay, shotgun, right? shotgun shells. Okay, on the upper left-hand side. So now we that means we have... probably what drop targets on Kong, the death eater on Harry Potter, somewhere right around there.
00:43:30
Speaker
And like the shotgun shells, two shotgun shells that you hit in. Yep. So it's like, which one's satisfying to do the most? I don't know.
00:43:41
Speaker
right Out of those? Just as a shot. Maybe the Death Eater is the most interactive. I would take that over the sweepable drops on Kong. Yeah. i like so yeah like So how would you rank those three then?
00:43:53
Speaker
would probably put Death Eater first and then I'd do the shells second and I'd put the sweepable drops third. Yeah. So there you go. Tom, what would you rank? I don't know. Tom's like, i don't know. I mean, it's, but it, that's, you got to look at the sum of all the parts, right? That's what the pinball machine. I mean, maybe I'll ask this question because this, I think is a hard question right now. If Twippy awards were, if we had to vote right now, right now, and we'll just go, ah sure. There would be drama. There would be drama everywhere and everybody would be like, like yeah honestly that that's what it'd be if you think of this year i you know you got evil dead dune kong and harry potter those four i mean there's other games no offense to the other games but i think those four games all are so are really good are really good yeah oh yeah and dune's a prime example upper left is what the sandworm upper left on dune sandworm yeah yep
00:44:48
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's, it's, there's some really good pinball right now. There are going to be riots and fighting over this year's Twippies. I guarantee it.
00:44:59
Speaker
Yeah. think it's hilarious every time. I just, like but I think it's so funny. problem that there's that much good pinball right now. Like, yeah, there's a lot. They're all so different.
00:45:10
Speaker
There's something for everybody. That's the most important thing. All right. Well, we'll keep moving along. ah Tom, John Wick. John Wick has had a few new updates overall. Good updates, bad updates.
00:45:22
Speaker
Uh-oh. Joel, i forgot. Travis is pointing. No, sorry. This is a good segue before we get off on Elwyn pins. I got to squash the rumor. Oh, let's squash it. Oh, yeah. yeah Okay. Yeah. Wait, wait. Do I have a drum roll? Hold on. Elwyn's calves are fake. He edits his photos. He's been injecting stuff. Yeah, yeah. It's...
00:45:42
Speaker
All right, I'll go ahead and squash this now because I keep seeing this everywhere. I see it on Pinside, Facebook. I've heard content people talk about it. You've heard this from a very reliable source. A super reliable source.
00:45:55
Speaker
A super, super reliable source. This isn't sarcasm. No, some would say the most reliable. Elwynn is not, and I repeat, not finishing Jack's game.
00:46:09
Speaker
He's not, I'm not gonna say like what the theme is or anything like that. We're not talking about that, but he's not finishing the game. So everybody can get off. that train of thought. Okay, so moving on the wick. What we're saying is it is no where i' saying Stern as announced what star has announced Jack Danger has moved positions. I don't know if we talked about this or not, but he is now moving to like the director of community, so theoretically Jack Danger is no longer part of the game design team, so the question is what is what's happening to his current game, his third Cornerstone game, and he's saying that um he's still going to be in... Well, there's a lot of rumors going on.
00:46:44
Speaker
yeah Well, I think the words Jack said himself, like he's still going to be involved to make that game as good as it can or something. But ah the the vibe is that he's not. And then a lot of the rumors are somebody else is stepping in and the rumors are Ellen stepping in yeah People are stepping in complete, to follow. and And what we're the only thing we're squashing here, all that rumor, i don't know.
00:47:08
Speaker
But what we are squashing is no, Elwin is not stepping in to complete Jack Danger's third game. Correct. That's the rumor we are squashing. What he is doing is stepping in and completing everybody's game. We're going to get 10 Elwins a year now. So yeah, there you go. Run off with that rumor. Put that on Facebook. So Elwin did step in to finish John Wick. So let's talk about John Wick.
00:47:32
Speaker
John Wick code, Tom. tom yeah John Wick code. where What are your thoughts on it? Uh, mostly good. Uh, I hate the fact that they took away. So I was, I was literally playing.
00:47:46
Speaker
i obviously hadn't played the, the, the, the new code. It was like just released. I'm playing it in a tournament and straight I'm like, I'm going to, yeah, Joel, that's what I do.
00:47:58
Speaker
okay you you stream at home and i stream tournaments no you don't okay you don't stream tournaments tournaments you just watch them no okay i was making a district 82 joke i was just i know was just at pinberg i was like i know i'm just no selling it put my life on pause i know you do for two weeks Actually, technically. did do Penberg, didn't you?
00:48:25
Speaker
Yeah. And the Beast at the same time. You didn't go home. Traveling the country. Anyways, back to John Wick. So I'm playing the game, okay? Doesn't matter where I was playing it. i was playing the game. the yeah And literally, I'm like in multiball, and I'm like, what do you do in multiball? You try to add a ball, right?
00:48:46
Speaker
so I'm trying to hit these targets, and they're not lighting. They're not like I hit all three targets and I'm like, what the shit is going on? Sorry. But, but, but imagine my frustration. Yeah. yeah yeah And I'm like, I can't add a ball. What is going on?
00:49:10
Speaker
so So they changed that. You can't, there's add a ball or they, there's just no, new way no, there is. So the new add a ball is one of the modes, which I can't think of right now.
00:49:21
Speaker
I think it's Tasker Crew, right? I think. See, here's here's the other problem. I'm pretty sure it's Tasker Crew. Yeah, what is Tasker Crew? Is that the green The orange one.
00:49:36
Speaker
The orange one. Okay. It's the far right insert tied to the Tarasaw family. Right. Which is the Tarasaw family, which is labeled on the play field as Tarasaw family.
00:49:48
Speaker
Yeah. But it's Tasker Crew. If you're in competition, I think, I don't know if they still have... Which Tasker Crew. Where does it say Tasker Crew on the play field? Yeah. Well, Tom, it's on the LCD, which is also part of the 4K clips. You should be looking up there. 4K clips, Tom. Right. Because when I'm playing pinball on a fast, flowy machine, I'm always looking at the LCD while the balls flying around. Did you watch all the movie clips on the Harry Potter pinball machine?
00:50:17
Speaker
That's what you do. You know, you're supposed to be able to you play and you look up. at the thing and you play and look down. yeah i look I don't know why you do this, but yeah. I look for the red and yellow inserts that are flashbacks.
00:50:30
Speaker
Yeah, the Gryffindor inserts your lessons. This modern pinball. It's just modern pinballed out completely. So did you did you find your atable? looking through the read me and I'm going like, what is assassination? What is task accrue? what you know Anyways, so i I went home and I looked at my game and I figured it all out. Anyways.
00:50:52
Speaker
But yup yeah, so there's actually like like Travis said, the orange well we'll just call it the orange mode to make it make it a little more simple. So the mode that has the orange insert, if you complete that mode, you get a add a ball during one of the multi balls, each ball.
00:51:13
Speaker
you can only use it once each ball. Okay. Okay. There's also... you use it like you hit the button? Or how do you get... how do yeah you Yeah. Right. you hit the button. So think like... I don't know. Think like Star Wars.
00:51:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to, you know... And here's the real question, Tom. What is it? Yeah. and Is there any point to getting the add-a-ball on John Wick? As it is right now with the way that the rules are.
00:51:39
Speaker
Is there any like beyond like anything else? Is there any point to prioritizing a mode just to get that perk? Not really. No, there's zero.
00:51:51
Speaker
yeah Zero, Joel. I'm telling I wish that they would have to add a ball back onto standups. Did you? Like that makes a lot more sense Did you tell Keith so he can change it need you yeah yeah but now now all the modes uh like actually have not only a perk but you have to hit like a certain number of shots and then go to the left scoop to complete it to get that perk okay so so in essence like there's a point to this stuff i guess
00:52:28
Speaker
So months back, right? Does that make sense? The problem is, is it balanced is the question. Is the perks for tournament players or for people that like score, right? We're ignoring Joel right now who just wants to experience the world. Right, yeah right right. I would say no. is It's a little unbalanced. I would agree.
00:52:49
Speaker
I think it's, yeah. In favor of what? What's the go-to Should we say it before Papa? Should we actually tell people what is? Apparently it's not the orange I mean... Well, it can be.
00:53:01
Speaker
um What do I want to reveal publicly? I mean... So, this is known. This this part's known because Escher did this, right? I thought it was At Northwest Pinball Classic.
00:53:11
Speaker
I mean, he probably did too. Like, this one's been known for a while, but... So, since each... faction or each job is tied to a perk right so a mode right right right so the perk with gather intel which is a ramps mode the perk is that you add on 20 seconds to your lights out now what is lights out you may ask joel that's a different mode no it's not shit okay lights out was isn't is it lights out in one of the modes you have to be in his house or it's a location
00:53:45
Speaker
no No, Joel. It lights out. It's been long time. Just ask me what lights out is, Joel. ah Tom's doing something. It's 2X Playfield. 2X Playfield. Yes, yes. So it gives you 20. how you start it?
00:53:58
Speaker
part too Now I'm all blurry. Thanks, Joel. The other part is funny here. So you start it by spelling Yaga. So that's on like the in lanes and out lanes. Yeah. Right.
00:54:10
Speaker
But it acts like Barakora where as long as you have the top insert lit, which is Baba, right? Because Baba Yaga is John Wick's character. If you have that B lit, which is the top insert on the right end lane, you can just keep feeding the crate and that VUK will kick it up, take it right back to your right end lane.
00:54:30
Speaker
Which case, as long as that top insert's lit, then your bottom insert will lit. You use the left flipper to keep rotating that insert over. So you can light jog it pretty easy. Yeah. You just ski jump over spam crate, come back. Now here's the other kicker. You hit the crate a couple of times.
00:54:45
Speaker
What does it do to your mode, Tom? It does. It increases the time. Oh, increases the timer. Yeah. Because we already started it. So it increases the time. Right. So now you're taking the mode, you're increasing the time and you're getting your two X ready to go your lights out.
00:55:03
Speaker
So from there, You hit the button, right? The action button, all the lights go out. It's supposed to be more difficult to know where the shots are because the lights are out.
00:55:13
Speaker
There's even a perk to have motion sensor to where you find where the shots are. The problem is on gather Intel. you know where every ramp's lit. Like, you know the ramps are lit. So you just ramp, ramp, ramp, ramp. ra ramp bra So you don't need the arrows to tell you the shots are lit. just know the arrows are lit.
00:55:30
Speaker
Yeah, and the ball returns back to the flipper and it's a 2x combo anyways. So you just keep that's blow the game. Oh, well, I mean, it's yeah, like I've had games like over 500 million just in that mode alone, just doing that back and forth.
00:55:44
Speaker
Now you have to get the shots if you mess up. Yeah. But the key is to if you want to get out of it quick, you finish, you know, gather Intel, you get out and then you could play whatever other mode you want. And then you're just going to be in lights out in perpetuity because it lasts 50 seconds.
00:55:59
Speaker
And you can't stack them on each other, but you can get three the lights lit, leave the other one unlit for as long as possible you know if you can, and then you just keep rotating them through. And there's the motion sensor perk.
00:56:12
Speaker
Right, right. So if you want to grab that. So ideally plus two, now the enemies, they will multiply your shot. So instead of blocking your shot, which did suck before.
00:56:23
Speaker
Yeah. Right. So now it's just like multiplier, multiplier. Travis, i I have a question for you in regards to Wick. right, let's do it. How the heck do you hit the gold targets?
00:56:36
Speaker
Just pray. Are you talking about the one by the right ramp? Like that yeah that's a side. There's two of them actually. Yeah. But there's no direct shot to it. Yeah. You just got to kind of hit it off something it just ricochets on, but that's wick. Like if you're, so this whole strategy we talked about in a premium, you can't do it pro. Yeah. You could do it the whole time.
00:56:58
Speaker
Premium because that crate stays down. So you can't spam it as much, but the whole game basically is, cactus canyon like joel pointed out joel's the first one to really point this out it's basically the cactus canyon layout with some bash mechs on it like if you look at it and you lay them over each other you're like oh shit so if you ever are playing john wick you're like this layout's hard i i don't know it's too fast this and that and then you look over cactus canyon you're like oh i could play that all day long then just put the layouts on top of each other and you'll be shocked how similar they are you're like
00:57:31
Speaker
Oh, okay. There's the shots. It's not as bad now. But no but i I do think the code has made the game better. but But like you're alluding to, you know, maybe the... i think they're on the right track. The 2X is too achievable.
00:57:49
Speaker
It's too achievable. And I like how it's it's thematically, it makes sense. But yeah, when it's that achievable and you can just spam it the whole time, Right?
00:57:59
Speaker
Right. I mean, I know, I know there's people listening. It's like, well, just don't do it, but you know, you got to, you don't need the points. The in-lanes are lit during lights out, right? Yes.
00:58:10
Speaker
that's why I'm pretty sure they are. But you can't stack them though. What happens is, is if you have motion sensor and you complete Yaga, that's what will give you a motion sensor to where you can hit the button again during lights out.
00:58:22
Speaker
And that shows you like a area of shots or one shot. So you have an idea. Of what they hit. It it shows you everything. Right. Oh, is it do that now? like a couple seconds. Yeah. Okay. So then there you go. So it's.
00:58:36
Speaker
you know I think that the rule set's on the right track right just from generally not having enemies block stuff. because i just That part I've never understood. Because it's John Wick. Killing progression. yeah Yeah, it's John Wick. like I'm going to kick enemies' asses anyways. like You look on the LCD screen, he's just murking everybody in sight.
00:58:54
Speaker
Yet the only thing getting murked is your score because you're not making any progress. so that part just never made any sense to me. I think it's on the right track. Joel's been attacking me this whole show. I just want everybody to know this.
00:59:08
Speaker
Joel. What?
00:59:11
Speaker
you attacking you you did you did say we're gonna get through tom let's go ahead i apologize allll you deserve but joel if we said that to our wives my god joel yeah ah hey let me tell you about work well let's just get through it no no no joel yeah joel there's been a code update for x-men it sounds like a great transition yes you need to explain I it's it's been updated. ah X-Men. um Well, like my question for Wick was, do you are you glad you've kept it?
00:59:42
Speaker
Are you glad you've kept it?
John Wick Pinball Code Discussion
00:59:44
Speaker
Like, are you because it was a I enjoy the game. X-Men were in a similar spot of people were dumping them. They thought the games were dead, but you've stuck through it. Are you happy you stuck through the ownership of of Wick?
00:59:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I like how the game shoots, so that's a big that's a big part of it for me. And I i mean, i kind of figured eventually they're going to make the game rules better.
01:00:11
Speaker
So, you know, yeah, i'm i'm I'm fairly happy with it. I mean, like Travis said, I think there's some little tweaks they need to do at this point, but... I mean, and, and, you know, there's still the, like, there's still no wizard mode or like any wizard mode, you know, but hopefully they'll, they'll get to that point. But the the code's at 0.97 right now. Yeah.
01:00:36
Speaker
So I would assume that's like the next thing on the docket. Well, maybe, I don't know, Tom, what you think about this? Joel, have you played the new WIC code at all? I have not played WIC. So then maybe Tom can answer this then. I just, me personally, I feel like the game still needs an identity when it comes to the rules, right? It's like, I don't feel... I think it's gotten better though. Well, yeah, it's gotten better. But what I'm saying is,
01:01:02
Speaker
Like it doesn't feel like even through the different modes, like gathering intel and tasking your crew and stuff like that, because the game does play so fast. It's not necessarily that I feel like I'm actually like in a wick action scene, like in any specific one.
01:01:16
Speaker
Sure. Right. It kind of just feels like it was still all meshes together and it just has like a different light. So what you're saying, it feels like Harry Potter. in a way. Yeah. In a way yeah it does. Like it's just, and it's hard to do like when a game plays so fast and it needs to return the ball back to you, it's not an easy thing to do, but it kind of feels like, I don't know what the game wants to be yet. I don't know if it wants you to be in the John wick world or if it wants you to really just focus on perks, right?
01:01:47
Speaker
Right. Because they like they added in the perks. Obviously they dangled these things for you to go after them, to add on to the future part of the game. True. problem is, is that because the game plays fast, it's like, how are those perks going?
01:02:00
Speaker
going to be beneficial to me at all. Like that's why it leads to the unbalance. Cause then you want, you know, you're only going to go for the perks that gives you the best bang for your buck up front, which is always going to be too ex play filled.
01:02:12
Speaker
I think it's, I think it, I think the game's in a tough position because you had a coder on it that had one vision and he left and now you have another coder kind of coming into it or, you know, you know what I'm saying?
01:02:28
Speaker
I wish. What about adversaries being lit from the get go and you get the, you get the choose your adversary. that you fight. Like, why not bring that closer to the start button and then let you like actually choose who you want to battle against.
01:02:42
Speaker
I don't mind that. And maybe instead of like perks from the factions being like, all maybe it's like something you could bring into that fight with the adversary. Like Wick might have additional, like his health bar might be higher or he might have like additional weapons with him to fight something. Sure.
01:03:01
Speaker
I don't know. Like in the code as as it is in the present state, do you think there's anybody out there that can get through all the modes and all the adversaries in one game?
01:03:13
Speaker
No. I don't either. i I think it would take a world-class, like somebody could, going to take player. you think Carl could do it? I think he could eventually. Yeah. I think there's less than five players in the world that would do it. i I 100% agree with that. So it's like, how are you going to experience stuff? So that's, that's the key. It's like, how do you want your end user to experience If it's a tougher play field.
01:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. and moment it's like I'm not talking about like, you know, your local bar that doesn't put a tilt bob in it and you could throw it to the feet. I'm talking talking like an actual yeah setup game.
01:03:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I just, cause I think some of the adversary stuff is interesting. The timer to me though, is just hilariously too long. I think it's like, it feels like it's three minutes with like a 90 second ball saver. It's like, it takes forever. And I agree with the old code, but with the new code where you can actually shoot the shot to finish it, i think the timer's fine.
01:04:14
Speaker
Yeah. Are you talking about how you can just exit quickly? Yeah. I mean, you exit quickly, you get your perk. Yeah, that's true. Like the game wants you to play for a long time, but I don't know. I just, I think the adversaries, they feel a lot more different than the jobs do at this point. i So it's like, want to play adversaries. Like i enjoy those a lot more than I do the jobs. 100%.
01:04:42
Speaker
But it's like, how do I do that? I want Wick to fight. Gotta get those enemies. Hit things yeah hit the gold target. Yeah, so exactly. So it's like, maybe like like I want enemies early on. That's hardest thing. Don't you have to hit the gold targets to add your enemies?
01:04:58
Speaker
I don't even know anymore. I thought it was that. But I think there's like an enemy that pops up on your ball one. And then ball two, there's more enemies. i think it has something to do with like the more jobs that you play.
01:05:10
Speaker
like More enemies show up. Because then once you play Tasker Crew, it gets hilariously like overpowered. At least it was before. Because enemies would show up and they were designed to block your shot then. So that hasn't changed yet.
01:05:23
Speaker
But I haven't played... I've only played one game on the newest code, so maybe it's changed since then. We just have to ask the kids. that's Well, there was a bug in there that led to billions of points. And I don't know if it's being addressed. Is Wick going a papa?
01:05:37
Speaker
It is. It is. i i ra what I wanted to mention just easily. This is the, I think this is the most we've talked about. wi Tune in Joel. Tune in. yeah I'm glad. You're going to see a lot of ramping out. That's what you're going to see. Cause it's the safest shot. Safest return. You don't have to worry about anything else.
01:05:55
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i you're going to see a lot of that. Okay, well, xmen I'm glad. I'm glad that Wick's heading in a good direction. yeah spin is i'm i'm I am a happy X-Men owner, is what I will say.
01:06:08
Speaker
i um I've said it many times. X-Men is is one of my top themes. um Tom said he loved the way Wick shoots. I really enjoy the way X-Men shoots. uh just playing x-men shooting the shots i really have a lot of fun um now people have had mechanical issues with the the way that their x-men uh setup i've i've done all the stern official fixes so there's a stern plunge fix kit i've put that in um the left flipper uh feed it's like a metal rail i've put that in
01:06:41
Speaker
And then I have the Raiden mod for the plunge as well in the back. And in between those, those fixes, I'm, I'm actually very happy with how it shoots. Um, sure. There are still times where the plunge doesn't, I mean, I'm, I'm probably at 90 plus percent success rate on the plunge.
01:06:59
Speaker
Um, but there are times it fails. And then there are times the mid, the Midtown shot, the shot right up the middle, uh, feels clunkier than it should, which is odd. Um, I do, i you guys are going to scoff, but I, I actually got a set of precision flippers. I haven't put them on the game yet. I'm curious what doing that would do to the game. If it would just that little bit extra power would help it.
01:07:20
Speaker
Um, but even if I don't, I'm really, I'm really happy with the way the game shoots currently. um if you're If you're happy with way the way the game shoots, are you changing your flippers, Joel? Because you have that whole thing of what what I don't like. He's got to put those one-inch ones in there.
01:07:36
Speaker
What I don't like The game is shooting fantastic. Guess what I'm going to do? Change the flippers.
01:07:43
Speaker
My midtown shot. My midtown shot, the easiest shot in the game.
Precision and Customization in Pinball
01:07:47
Speaker
I've heard from a lot of people that they can hit that with the left flipper. I cannot. On mine, so it depends will che it's just underpowered. It's copy dependent. I just talked to somebody last night at League. They own an X-Men. They actually love the game. They enjoy it.
01:08:02
Speaker
And they have a pro, and they said they cannot hit that shot from their left flipper to save their life. It just rejects. all the time on them now the one i have at our warehouse i can hit it from the left ramp and everybody else can too so i think it's just copy dependent exactly precision flipper dependent in your case well no i hate what i can hit it and it's clean it just starts up the ramp and it's just like it needs that little tiny bit of extra oomph to complete the shot. Like I'm hitting it clean. It needs the performance pill to get up. It needs that little extra bit of power. So that's where I'm curious.
01:08:37
Speaker
But I might play around with it. um Yeah, I mean, why not? That's the only way you know. You can get it through all the way. You to play around with it. Code wise, I'm enjoying the direction the code is heading. um i I'm glad to see these little, I still think we're in a spot where they're almost kind of cleaning up what code was there or redefining the fundamentals of the code, the base of the code that's there. Where do you think it's going?
01:09:03
Speaker
Well, um I do think they're fleshing up. they're theyre they're They're making the modes a little more fun. i know future. Currently, there's only one future mode. I know there's going to be multiple future modes. There is?
01:09:14
Speaker
Yes. It's not going to be the same future? It's not going to be the same future every time. Interesting. Like Nimrod's not in the game. They sorely need to do that for the future. I think that's my biggest gripe right now in the new code. The loop feels like Groundhog Day over and over again. Joel's going to be depressed though when it happens.
01:09:34
Speaker
No, he's going to slap his new flippers on there and he's going to be pleased as punch. I don't know why say why I admit or say anything, you know? We're supporting you, Joel. ah i feel We are supporting you changing your flippers on your game that shoots just fine. It's his game, Travis.
01:09:50
Speaker
He can do anything he wants. I'm just curious. He can have it at five degree pitch. He can have it leaning to the left. He can have the legs on backwards. He can do everything. well This leaning to left crap.
01:10:02
Speaker
All right. We'll talk about I don't think it's leaning. I haven't put the i haven't put the level on it yet, but i've what they're saying, my cactus candy I streamed the other night, and Carl DeAngelo, they think it in your life and us it's us. It wasn't us. It was Carl DeAngelo. Thanks a lot, Carl. For you general stans, I want to send hate mail. This isn't us.
01:10:22
Speaker
It's so just... ah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, why do we, you know, you put yourself out there, right? Have you talked to Dry yet about your audio? Have you figured that out yet? No, we're getting to Cactus Canyon. We're an hour and 10. Let's just finish that. x Everybody's having a great time.
01:10:36
Speaker
Everybody's having a great time, right? everybody Everybody's having a good time. um I'm enjoying X-Men. i just there i do think i um I'm happy i I jumped in when I jumped in.
01:10:47
Speaker
And i think I do think the game is heading in the right direction. i do think the game is going to be enjoyed more. It is unfortunate to have a game that needs so much tweaking. i I mean, I'm spoiled in a way where i you know I get these brand new games, I unbox them, and i i I really have had to do very little tweaking to brand new games.
01:11:05
Speaker
to just get them to play really well. Like they just play, they just play well. um But this is a game that it's like, okay, the game plays, but if you really want your version of your game to play well, you're probably going to have to dive in there and tweak little bit. I'm going to have to step out for a minute.
01:11:21
Speaker
He's got to get his microwave installed. Yeah. He does. Now, yeah most people would think, why does a dentist need somebody to install a microwave for them?
01:11:33
Speaker
It's above an oven. yeah It's really intricate. No, it's a guy coming to set it on your counter and plug it in. that no. yeah No, yeah no, no. I actually did that exact install for my parents.
01:11:47
Speaker
a few weeks ago and it's not easy. yeah just Yeah. Go tend to that Tom graph. We'll be right here. We'll hold it down. We'll talk about X-Men while you're gone. Yeah. I wasn't talking anyways. It's fine. That's good. Well, we got him out of the way, right? We got him out of the way early. you noticed something, Joel? I'm noticing a pattern here.
01:12:05
Speaker
Every time we podcast. Yeah. Bug guy. yeah Yeah. He has something going on his house. he's a busy man. It's like the freaking village people over there. Two times credit. He takes Fridays off because he works hard.
01:12:17
Speaker
He takes Fridays off. So why, of course you would schedule the things on Friday. That makes sense. Do you do that Do you schedule things to happen at your house on your day off? No, because I work, I work five days a week, but I work from home. So really they can just come whenever.
01:12:32
Speaker
Yeah. That's, i yeah, that's what I do too. Yeah. Yeah. You work. Right. Okay. So, um,
01:12:38
Speaker
X-Men, I'm really happy with X-Men. Did you play it last night? I did. The new code, they've changed the multiballs. They've made the multiballs a little easier to understand what's going on or just like... ah I'd heard that they changed the UI. Did you notice that? They did. guess to for Save the City or something like that? that's what's funny is remember when Save the City originally came out, Save the City is all about hitting every shot in the game three times. When Save the City came out, there was nothing telling you you were doing anything. And then all of a sudden, the middle shot was lit yellow.
01:13:08
Speaker
um They changed that by adding the six shots that are needed in the upper right, but it was either... gray as in you haven't hit it three times or green you have hit it three times there was no in between they've now changed it where every time you hit the shot it's like a progress bar so it's like oh i've hit it once i've hit it twice oh i've hit it three times perfect so that's what i'm saying little things little things that are making it better and better and better but it's just it's one of those things where it's very clear to me just to step up to a game and enjoy the way a game shoots and
01:13:38
Speaker
That's where, like, that's what I miss about, like, I miss shooting Kong. I miss shooting Harry Potter. Those are the things that I, like, that's the experience that I enjoy.
01:13:49
Speaker
um Yeah, the I mean, the games have to have a hook there somehow, right? It's got to either have a actual layout design hook. Or it's got to have some type of software hook, right? Like just through auditory or ah light show, everything.
01:14:04
Speaker
um Just because we're going down the line, my random side comment about Godzilla, I got my final ah stumbler mod. I got my final stumbler mod for the ah for behind. So this is now... that building? What am I looking at here? This is the building that goes behind the main building.
01:14:23
Speaker
um So now... but Yeah, bill this is the one that ah that the ball shoots up through. Not the main building that goes up and down. It's like it goes on the back box, not the back box, the back panel.
01:14:34
Speaker
So there's a three buildings to the back. Oh, it does like a landscape. Yeah, it's a whole new. These things are incredibly well made and beautiful. And this is the last one. So this is the, this is his, uh, the third building that goes in the back.
01:14:48
Speaker
So it's like, it's like a whole freaking dial. No, I don't think I could ever sell this one. $200 people. It's a beautiful, beautiful mod. Uh, okay. So my game, I'm just very, I'm very happy with where my games are at the moment. And, um, and ah one of the main reasons of that is Cactus Canyon. I got the Cactus Canyon upgrade kit. Um, huge shout out to Josh Sharp.
01:15:11
Speaker
Um, Josh Sharp had two kits made. Um, they're in production right now, but he had two kits made delivered to him. He shipped me one and then his, he's keeping the second kit to put in the game at Papa.
01:15:24
Speaker
Um, so with the kit, you get the saloon door mech, uh, which has an attached new spinner to the left. And then you get a new little sign, um, for, uh, the railroad lock sign. So now when you're locking balls in golden and golden, the nine multiball, you know how many you have locked.
01:15:40
Speaker
based on what lights are lit. um So it seems very simple. It's like, oh, you just add these mechs. But what i what i was not um what I underestimated was how much additional code they added to the game.
01:15:54
Speaker
they have They tweaked some of the modes. um They've added hurry-up modes. They've added... They've just added a lot. I mean, well, if you look at the little brochure, 10 new modes, two enhanced modes. ah There's way more animations. There's new call-outs. And it's just, it's crazy to me to have a game that I already felt was good.
01:16:14
Speaker
And then they just like fleshed it out even more and made it that much better. Yeah. How long did it take you? And now we're talking about the Lyman sheets, complete library sheets. Correct.
01:16:25
Speaker
That was finished by Josh Sharp. And I think, wasn't there one other person? that was helping him with it too. I thought Josh Sharp didn't program it. He didn't do the actual, right. I there's a whole team behind it. Well, there's somebody else named Sam. I can't remember the last name. Sorry. It starts with a Z. Yes. Z-H-E-R. Z-E-H-R.
01:16:45
Speaker
Yeah. sorry I don't, he's yes. I'm talking to him. The reason i'm talking to him is i found a bug. Um, he's the main programmer. Um, like he's the main guy behind the project. Um, but Lyman,
01:16:57
Speaker
wrote all the foundation, Lyman and Josh wrote the foundation of all the the rules, what they want to change. And it's it's a lot. Like they took a game. That's what I think is crazy. The Cactus Canyon was originally made and though the game was essentially essentially delivered or sold incomplete.
01:17:13
Speaker
um And I know that because the original code, you can play the original code in the game and you realize how barren that original code is. um i think it's, it is kind of funny though.
01:17:25
Speaker
Like this day and age, it's like, yeah, Cactus Canyon released to incomplete code. And it's kind of like, I feel like that's what everybody says about every game. What's the big deal? It's like normalized now.
01:17:37
Speaker
But that was it. It was incomplete code and it was not completed until CGC remade them. And then they they completed the code. um And what I mean, like there weren't modes in that. There weren't like not every shot had a mode written. Yeah, it wasn't traditional. Yeah. Now it's all there.
01:17:53
Speaker
um and But this is like took it even further. And that's what I'm I'm really happy with. The Saloon Door mech, what I love about it. As I remember when I bought a Cactus Canyon, I mean, some of the feedback you talked about, it's like, well, it's like, well, do you like Cactus Canyon? You're like, no, I don't want to just sit there and shoot Bart all day.
01:18:10
Speaker
Like that, that was your vibe of the game was it was just, it's a lot of the wait for the ball to come back. It's a lot of the same over and over again. yeah Not now. That's what the Saloon Door mech.
01:18:24
Speaker
it the bart the Bart shot was essentially a scoop that you were a trough that you were hitting the ball into and then you had to wait for an animation and then it would spit the ball back out. Now with the Saloon Door mech,
01:18:35
Speaker
the The door stays shut. So it's now like you're just hitting, it feels like a standup target almost. You're just hitting a target. And so the game stays fast. The ball keeps moving. And then once you've hit the shot enough, the door goes up and then you hit the the trough and you get your animations, but you've accomplished something.
01:18:51
Speaker
And so i'm I'm amazed at how changing that one mech how much it's changed the overall vibe of the game. The game feels faster. It feels like you can do more. There's so many different things you can do at any time.
01:19:04
Speaker
Am I am I look am I focusing on Barts? Am I focusing on the mode? Oh, I got saloon fight. Hurry up going. Do I want to build that up and then cash out? Do I want to you know, I got my combos. I got my oh quick draws lit. Let me hit my quick draw shot like.
Cactus Canyon: Value and Upgrades
01:19:19
Speaker
I don't know. I'm just I'm really happy with where the game's at and really excited to own this game. And I just to me, i think Cactus Canyon is an undervalued game. There are so many out there right now for sale that are that are steals, in my opinion. And I'm not just trying to shill, but it's just I've always thought it's been a good game.
01:19:39
Speaker
It's it's the one CGC game I'm surprised is cheaper than. You know, when you compare it to medieval madness and yeah, I mean, but it's the value of what you get.
01:19:50
Speaker
i just there's some really good mechs in the game. um I'm such a sucker for the four drops that pop up that you have to use for gunfight and quick draw. And now they use those drops in martial multiball and some other modes to kind of block your shots like.
01:20:06
Speaker
i i'll tell you right now if i'd ever designed a game it'll never happen but if i did there would be drops in front of ramps or there would be drops in the play field i just love that the targets pop up you got to hit it and then it goes of the way just like the fin on jaws um i i just love it i love like three drop targets on uh halloween the center ramp no that's not what i know is that your inspiration no But it's just, it's great. How long did it take you to install the kit?
01:20:32
Speaker
A lot of people asked that. I think it's supposed to be two hours is the estimated time. No, I would say for you, would probably be four or five. ah But for most people, that's fair ah Monica, I think Monica could knock it out in an hour.
01:20:44
Speaker
Honestly, it's not, it's not that bad. It's really not that bad. It just depends on how meticulous you are or like how, but it's honestly, I think it took me a little over an hour, but I was also filming it. I filmed myself through the entire install.
01:20:58
Speaker
so if I wanted to have had to worry about lights and camera angles and all that, and I could have just focused, I confidently think I could have done the whole thing in under an hour. Really? It's not that bad. Um, so What is it involved? Do you have to actually lift up the play field? You do. Or do you have to unscrew a bunch of stuff off the top? Or is it a mix of both?
01:21:17
Speaker
It's a mix of both. You start on the top of the play field. you basically remove ah two rails. You have to cut out a switch. You actually have to cut two wires to remove a switch that was originally in front of Bart. Yeah, if you cut that off, you cap them off, and you kind of just shove it under a ramp.
01:21:32
Speaker
And then you, like, thread some stuff under a ramp. The hardest thing is um you got to thread these cables down through a hole You got to thread all the cables down. That's some, they go up into the back box. You thread it up and then you got to line up the new saloon mech just right. once you get it all lined up, you screw down four screws.
01:21:52
Speaker
And then you're basically done at the top. You lift the play field, you plug one thing in, then you slide the play field forward it and everything else runs up into the back box and you plug a few things in and then you just kind of clean it up. You zip tie it or do it in clips and piece of cake.
01:22:07
Speaker
So honestly, it's not that it's not that bad. So here's my question to you because I think you've been wanting, didn't you mention you wanted medieval madness? Are you getting one? Yes. Are you getting one? I'm planning on buying one, yes. Okay.
01:22:19
Speaker
So now that you've played both, and you've played Cactus Canyon yeah with the kit, which one do you think you would have more fun with over a full year?
01:22:31
Speaker
If you had them both side by side. By a mile. Yeah. yeah I've heard that from a couple of people. And it goes to show you, it's kind of amazing how if you just get the right rules on a game, the right feel on a game, and you just tweak something, right? Yeah. It totally changes the complete complexion.
01:22:51
Speaker
Oh, theyve of a game the topper too. They've added more in the topper. Like the toppers utilize more. There's lights at the bottom of the topper. So there's different times where the lights will show a timer or your progression of shots.
01:23:03
Speaker
It's they've, I mean, I just think they took a game that was already an a and they took it to another level. ah But i I will tell you right now, yes, I am planning on getting a Medieval Madness Merlin edition um just because I was like, I really think for the and the friends and family, right? you know I just think that game is going to be well enjoyed or loved.
01:23:21
Speaker
um But my initial thought was like, I will i have Cactus Canyon. I will enjoy the code. And then when it's time to get Medieval Madness, if I decide Medieval Madness game I want, I'll sell Cactus Canyon.
01:23:33
Speaker
But I I'm really and maybe I'm just in the honeymoon phase, but I'm I just I really don't see myself selling Cactus Canyon at this point. Like, it's really ah just a great game.
01:23:43
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, i I think you're right. There's just there's a lot of games out there right now, because I think that. Like, I'm looking at the kit right now, and I mean, it's yeah, it's what, like 10 modes.
01:23:56
Speaker
And extra modes attached to it ads and everything. Well, ah the best way to look at it is now on the plunge. The plunge has changed. a hurry up mode that you can do. Bella Bart, when it comes to the Barts, there were only four in the game. Bella was always on the back glass. Bella is now in the game. does she She herself doesn't really change. It's just different call outs, different art.
01:24:14
Speaker
Saloon fight is a really cool hurry up that you get based on the spinner. So it's really for points. If you're looking for progression, you don't have to do anything with saloon fight, but it is, it's just another distraction as in, it's like, Oh, I have that going.
01:24:26
Speaker
Should I stop what I'm doing right now and focus on building up that jackpot and then cashing out, um, gunfight, the logic behind gunfight is totally changed. Previously you could, um, you could promote from like sheriff to deputy or deputy to whatever. The the goal was always to get the marshal.
01:24:43
Speaker
In the original code, I don't think it never did anything. But now there's Marshall multiball. There's a Marshall. Once you've progressed to Marshall, you can start it again and there's a mode. And if you get through that mode, you get to a multiball. So it's a it's a it's another essentially kind of mini wizard mode that's built into the game. That's really fun.
01:25:02
Speaker
And so there are times that I play and that's all I'm focusing on is progressing up to Marshall. I'm not worried about modes or or BARTs or anything. Well, I say that to have the ability to upgrade, to be promoted, you have to win a gunfight. To qualify gunfight, you either have to complete a mode or beat one of the Bart bros.
01:25:21
Speaker
So it's like you still have to do that. But then you see gunfights lit and it's like, sweet, here's my opportunity to to be promoted. Gunfight is also where a lot of the points are. Gunfight will bring in the points of whatever you did to qualify gunfight.
01:25:35
Speaker
All gunfight is, is it holds the ball, it puts up to one of the four drops and you have to hit it. um Right. So it's kind of a one shot. So that's what I'm excited from a Papa standpoint. There's a lot of pressure to hit that shot.
01:25:48
Speaker
And you can build the value of your gunfight by, let's say you complete two modes and a Bart before you play gunfight. Well, the value of both of those two modes and Bart have been brought into gunfight.
01:25:59
Speaker
And now that one shot is going to be worth all that. yeah And that's really, that risk reward is awesome. um There's a new video mode, the shopper shootout two video mode.
01:26:12
Speaker
Showdown, that mini wizard mode has changed, which is a lot of fun now. Showdown happens once you've done all the quick draws. There's a gunfight ball save on the left. Once you've been promoted to deputy, that'll be lit. That's a fun, another situation of, oh, I drained out the left side.
01:26:27
Speaker
Boom, it pops up all four drops. One of them is green. If you hit the green one, your ball is saved. Otherwise, if you hit any of the other ones, flippers die, your ball's over. um franken beans has been added drunken multiball has been added that uses the beer target the beer stein target which was really underutilized in all the other versions but now the more you hit that you can get to those modes uh saloon parties there once you beat all the bart bros martial mode was added and then high noon the final final wizard mode um they fleshed it out they've that before was kind of a joke um right so yeah so much more so much more in the game
01:27:03
Speaker
It sounds like because what? It's like at a price point of $1,249 or $1,250, something like that. Oh, if if you have you Cactus Canyon, in my opinion, it's a no-brainer. Yeah. like it's a no-brainer. I know it's still $1,200, but it's a no-brainer. Well, no, it still sounds like because you can find an SE around for like $6,000.
01:27:21
Speaker
You can't. yeah they're They're out there. So, I mean, realistically, considering that you could... if you If you're in the right spot, right time, you could pretty much have this kit and an SE with not too many plays on it for less than $7,500. For the cost of a Stern Pro. and Yeah, it sounds like that's a pretty good deal with where it's There's so more in it than a Stern Pro.
01:27:40
Speaker
Are talking about just mech-wise? Oh, yeah. mex like i just I really like the build quality of it, but mechs, I mean, the... um Yeah, there's there's a lot in this game. I just i think it's a fantastic game. i've I've always been a fan of it once I got it.
01:27:56
Speaker
This was the one of the games that I remember when I streamed it originally. i was just like, oh I'll give it a shot. And then i we just really loved it. And and it's made Jared and i we've had a lot of conversations. Like honestly, with all the new artwork that's in the game, we've talked about this so many times.
01:28:10
Speaker
I just, that artwork makes me happy. The DMD dot style artwork. Yeah. It just makes me happy. and i And I can't say that about really any of the LCD artwork out there. And maybe it's because it feels different. It feels different than a video game or something that we look at every single day.
01:28:27
Speaker
it Yeah, I think really what you're describing, I go through this too. To where like pinball is still pinball, but then sometimes pinball doesn't feel like pinball when you're looking at at the totality of everything. like So for me, no matter what, it's like looking at an LCD screen. It's kind of, it's modern pinball.
01:28:44
Speaker
But then of course, you know, in my game room, I have a bunch of EMs and solid states and I love playing the Valley Williams game. So yeah, I'm super partial to that. And I don't mind like the enhanced DMD, like the super DMD or whatever you want to call it, like something like that I'm fine with.
01:28:59
Speaker
But yeah, it's, I think too, if you're, it's just interesting to see where Cactus Canyon has gone because it came out what 1998. Yeah. was like a little over 900 units released. It didn't really do that. Great. Got shut down early. Like I said, incomplete code, all that.
01:29:16
Speaker
And then the remake was what? August, I think of 2021. So it's been out. It's been a long time. years. It's been a long time. now this kit is just now getting out. I know.
01:29:28
Speaker
It is wild to see. Like just the trajectory of everything, like where everything's gone. And I kind of, I mean, obviously there are certain circumstances to where this got delayed with, you know, with Lyman's untimely passing, but it just makes me wonder that if something like this would have been attached to the project from the get go, because remember when it was first announced,
01:29:51
Speaker
they announced the the rule set changes and all that coming. Like, I don't remember if they had it exactly as advertised as like just the kit itself, but I remember that they said there was going to be enhancements coming from this team. Well, when you put Lyman's name on it, we know...
01:30:07
Speaker
yeah And that's, I remember a long time ago, Tom, I remember saying, Tom, like, Hey, Tom, you thinking about getting a cactus cane? Cause I, I wasn't on board when the game was announced. I played it. I just, and Tom was like, if I got it, it would be because Lyman, like, um yeah because there was immediate faith in Lyman, Josh Sharp, that if these two are going to attach their name to a project there, the code is really going to be fleshed out in a way that's going to be really fun.
01:30:28
Speaker
It's going to be tournament friendly. Yeah. Um, And it's it's just really stuck to me. I mean, that's that's where... um i don't know. To me, i listening to you guys talk about John Wick, like I love it that you guys are that passionate about code and scoring and and the way to blow up a game and tackle a game.
01:30:48
Speaker
I just don't... That's not the way my brain works. like I just don't care. I don't care about play field. I like just and pinball. Yeah, pinball is two ways. And I think a lot of it is... is like And we talked about this before.
01:31:02
Speaker
To me, ah large part of my enjoyment of pinball too, is exploring. Right? Like I, I like getting to wizard mode. So getting to wizard modes means you have to do a lot of tasks to get there. The score in general does not matter at that point.
01:31:15
Speaker
So that's a lot of fun, like attack from Mars, getting to rule the universe. You got to do all these different tasks, you know? So like even Jurassic park has something similar to that to where it has five different wizard modes, I think with it, but you got to do certain things to get each wizard mode, right?
01:31:29
Speaker
Play so many control rooms or beat so many paddocks and it's just more task-based. So I think You know, there's a lot of ways to approach pinball play.
01:31:40
Speaker
And I think that's what makes it most exciting to see, you know, if you want to break down a game, like you do a game of chess to where you're like, I'm going to hit these first five shots or it's going to lead to these next 10 shots.
01:31:51
Speaker
You could totally do that. Every game you could map out the exact shot sequence you need to do to get to the exact score you want. You can absolutely a thousand percent do that.
01:32:04
Speaker
Does everyone do that? No, that's probably less than 1% of all players actually do that. And probably less than 5% of players even think about that. You could even do that. Right. Cause a lot of times it's just hit a shot that feels good and there's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. And I think,
01:32:20
Speaker
I think having games that, and that's that's why I talk of a lot about exploring a play field. Like you need a rule set that gives you a reason to explore the entire play field because a rule set, there's two things really that will totally guide a player through a game.
01:32:38
Speaker
It's either gonna be your rule set because you have a light flashing, you gotta hit this shot ye or you gotta do this task, or it's gonna be a shot that's just simply fun to hit.
01:32:49
Speaker
The key is, is just meshing those two things together. That's, I mean, that's really the key. i Yeah. i know Not, it not everybody plays for score. I would say less people in pinball play for score than the people that do.
01:33:00
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I think that's the way it is. Well, i even just on this podcast, I know there are people that glaze over when tournament talk starts happening or like just it's or just. Yeah. How do you blow up this or that? A lot of people. I mean, the way that I view things is even the tutorials I film, it's all just progression. How do I progress through the game?
01:33:17
Speaker
And I task based games, task based games that show me to get to this, you have to do X, y and Z. I i really latch on to that. And ah it's it's needed.
01:33:29
Speaker
Because, yeah the majority of people I talk to, the majority that I talk to, I cannot stress this enough, yeah cannot, and this is no knock against them. This is like theyre what they experience, what they tell me.
01:33:42
Speaker
They cannot get through the first five minutes of pretty much any game. Like getting to the second mode and finishing the second mode ah of a game is super foreign to them. Getting two multi balls in one game, super foreign to
Engagement in Modern Pinball Games
01:33:56
Speaker
them.
01:33:56
Speaker
So yeah the idea of lining up all these stacks, that's a zero starter. Like that just won't happen. I just, I don't care about, Oh, you don't want to start that mode until you bring this in. It's like, no, I don't. I'm going to start to start the but but it's,
01:34:10
Speaker
But that I just, I don't know. Cactus Canyon, once again, i mean, I've met people that just, they love, they're super passionate about pinball, but they it's almost like they don't care about modern pinball. They just love the Bally Williams era of pinball. that That level of complexity or simplicity, how you look at it, is right where they want to live.
01:34:28
Speaker
And I will say, I mean, the way my brain works, I like i like some of these super complex rule sets and and realizing the thought process behind all those. I have a ton of fun playing those games, but when I just come down and want to just play pinball, most of the time i like I like my brain being off. I like my brain being off. So what's gonna what keeps you moving forward? Satisfying shots, kinetic satisfaction, or just the simplicity behind certain games?
01:34:52
Speaker
I mean, honestly, one of the games that I miss is Monster Bash. ah Like Monster Bash, that's a game I've had. I streamed and I've beaten it. I've beaten the game. And yet that's a game that it was just, it was just fun to step up and just play, step up and play simple ah to understand. That's what I like about, uh, total nuclear annihilation.
01:35:13
Speaker
You don't have to overthink anything. Just, you just play the game. And, um, but with that said, yeah I got Godzilla on the other side, super complex, if you want it to be it doesn't have to be you can just play the game and fight some guys and rip some spinners and know that's what's fun about pinball right and um well you can approach you can approach a game any way you want right it's kind of like i think if you have a super deep slash complex rule set it does give them some i guess
01:35:46
Speaker
lateral chance to be able to have somebody just play it at a surface level and it'll be fine. Whereas if you put out something that's super shallow and everybody gets through it, then you're risking the longevity of the game. Like people can accept that yes on an EM or a solid state. They can accept a shallow rule set then. yeah But for whatever reason, if you put a modern game, you put an LCE on there,
01:36:09
Speaker
God help you if you have a shallow rule set. right like That happened to Munsters, right? Everybody went nuts about that. Which I get, but then i don't know. Pulp Fiction isn't super deep, and it's just fine. that It's mostly a single level and a half, right? I really had a lot of fun with that game. But it was task-based. It was task-based. You had five tasks or whatever. So it's, what do you want to focus on? What do you want to do?
01:36:33
Speaker
And Josh said it. He said that was something you learned from Lyman, that if if like to get to High Noon, you have to complete five tasks. um But Lyman said, you only have to make one of those tasks hard. The other four, make them achievable. You only have to make one of them hard.
01:36:48
Speaker
And I know in, um I think it was in Pulp Fiction to get to the final, final wizard mode. It was like you had to get a super jackpot in briefcase multiball or whatever, whatever it was, or you had to get to a certain level.
01:36:58
Speaker
That was the hard one. All the other ones, like you should theoretically over time get get get to. And that's where, what excites me about Cactus Canyon, that dangling that carrot. The hard one in this now is um Showdown.
01:37:12
Speaker
showdown to play showdown you have to uh complete all four drop uh quick draw events once you've done that you start showdown showdown the way it plays is it's it starts as a two ball multi-ball all four drops pop uh pop up you have to hit all four drops and then all the shots are lit for a jackpot shot and you have to hit one of those so once you've hit one of them it'll kick out another ball um but you have to keep at least two balls in play so you have to keep a two ball multi-ball going um But I think he can get up to like three or four balls, so but then all four drops pop up again.
01:37:42
Speaker
Once you complete all four drops, then all the jackpot shots, except for the one you hit are lit. So it's like you end up having to hit every single main shot after completing the drops. And then once you've done that, then you have to hit Bart to kill him.
01:37:54
Speaker
um That's the hard one. That's the hard one now. And I beat it. which is so Which is crazy to me. I think it was crazy to Josh. Josh Sharp was watching. That was crazy to me that I played it on stream.
01:38:06
Speaker
But the fact that I beat it gives me that feeling of like, I beat that one. So now that I've done it once, now I just need to get that perfect game where I get all the modes beat. I get all Barts beat. I get my 10 combos.
01:38:19
Speaker
And I hit mother load during while. And if I can do that, yeah high noon. High noon's right there. And that that's like energizing to me that i think that it's possible.
01:38:29
Speaker
Yeah, and it's important to see rule sets going that way as well. Because I think that that puts you on a solid ground to build up and to get players to want to engage in that, right? You can have it super shallow at the very beginning, make it easily understandable. You got your bozo multiball that you can get too quick. You want action to happen quick, right? You're pushing it quick. And then you can get more depth.
01:38:54
Speaker
Later on as you go, you can make things a little bit more complicated. That's why I've always been a big fan over like level one, level two modes. To where it might get a little bit tougher or you could have some sort of risk reward, I think. And I'm not saying like Keith is the first one to do this. It's just the one off top my head. I like how like King Kong, the New York City modes, they have the multi or not the multipliers, the modifiers. Now we talked about that a little bit earlier. So something like that, I think works really well to where,
01:39:24
Speaker
It's kind of, this is the super extreme balancing act we talk about. like, how do you weigh out getting an earned perk by the player compared to something that the player can just have a choice to use at the very beginning, right? So imagine like those modifiers, the player has to earn those modifiers in order to apply it. And that's kind of what Avengers Infinity Quest was. You had to earn the gems. You had to beat it. Earn the gem and where do you want to put it?
01:39:50
Speaker
Right. And that's where people's minds just exploded. They got in their own head. Like, i don't know what's going on. I don't want to put it on the wrong spot. That was the weary worry, right? Like, I just don't want to put it in the wrong spot. Yeah. like So it's kind of yeah.
01:40:02
Speaker
And that was the exact opposite where you had to earn it. And then you could decide like in theory, that should be an excellent mechanic, but then what you find in practice, When you have players that may not be elite level flipper skills or even average flipper skills, which is perfectly fine.
01:40:18
Speaker
That means that their choice in doing that, it's going to be very hard to earn that compared to like New York city, you earn getting to the New York city modes. And then you can just decide right off the bat.
01:40:31
Speaker
How do you want to do this? How do you want to modify something? And I think that I find that very fascinating With a rule set, if people can start implementing that more, I think that that adds on to a lot of replay value as well. Oh, I mean, for that yeah, if you have a mode tree and you're like, yeah, I can turn this into a two ball multi ball or I can turn this into a time flipper mode or something like that. Like, I don't know. I don't know how hard that is to ah program in software wise, but.
01:41:00
Speaker
I think it's it's fun. That balance, and we talked about this so many times, the balance of um replayability, but yet, so that means you need to have complexity, but yet you can't be too complex because then you overwhelm.
01:41:13
Speaker
You know, I know my brother's initial impression Harry Potter was too much. It's too much. He just couldn't. It's like, where do you even start? Where do you even start? You're drinking from a fire hose, but once you realize, oh, there's actually a lot of logic there.
01:41:25
Speaker
So it's, you got to have that Yeah, but you don't you also don't want to have a game where it's like, well, clearly the the only way to play it is to do this. the And then all of a sudden you have a game that, that sure, it may have a ton of options, but if you ignore all of them and you're only following one path...
01:41:42
Speaker
then all of a sudden the game feels really shallow or it feels just yeah like. in those And the way you eliminate that completely is to have task based wizard modes. Like that's the easiest way to eliminate that. Cause then you give a reason to do everything.
01:41:55
Speaker
Yeah. I really eliminates that. With Cactus Canyon, it's like, oh, shoot, I'm one Bart away from Bionic Bart. Like, yeah, I'm going focus on that all of a sudden. Or, hey, I'm only one shot away from starting my last mode. That takes me to Stampede. Like, I'm going to focus on that. so you Or it's like, man, i already I just played Stampede. I drained.
01:42:13
Speaker
Let's start up another game. Okay, instead of focusing on modes this time, I'm going to focus on just progressing towards Martial Multiball. Like, that to me, I love it. I love it. I'm just... This isn't new. this I've owned Cactus Canyon for a while. I loved it before. The kit has added even more to love.
01:42:29
Speaker
And I'm just, I'm really enjoying where it's at. Now, with all that said, there is a problem. If you watch my stream, if you watch my stream, there's an audio issue.
Technical Issues in Pinball Development
01:42:40
Speaker
um i We don't know yet. we And I say we as in I'm working with CGC. I'm talking back and forth with them. I don't know what it is. You read Pinside and there's plenty of people that think they got it figured out, but we don't I don't know what it is.
01:42:56
Speaker
um And what I mean by that is there's a crackling or it seems like there's a clipping of there's like a max volume situation. um And so we got a lot of grief on the stream because of the audio. I understand.
01:43:09
Speaker
It's not the speakers. What I mean by that is I'm doing direct capture, whether or not I do direct capture straight off the PCB for the audio or whether or not it goes to the speakers, the crackle is still there. It's not volume specific. If I'm at volume one or volume 10, it's still there.
01:43:24
Speaker
It comes through both the back box speakers and the cabinet speaker. So i I really do think it's software related. I'm talking to the main programmer the game. I've sent him a bunch of stuff. He's on it. um he just i We do think essentially every audio clip has, when you save the audio clip, you set it at a standard volume and then those audio clips may overlap. And so does the combined audio clip possibly peak or be more than the onboard amplifier?
01:43:51
Speaker
Maybe. I don't know. But my view is um there's some people that are pissed because they think this means that the Caxus Canyon kits are going to be delayed even more until this is solved. That may be true. I don't know.
01:44:02
Speaker
But at same time... waited four years. What's another year? Just wait again. It's fine. Don't come out. this point... I would rather people get the game and it'd be great. And the other thing is it could be maybe my board is blown or something. Maybe my, the amplifier part of my board. I don't know, but I'm working with them. We're trying to figure that out.
01:44:22
Speaker
Uh, the other bit of grief that I was waiting for time to get back on, but, Carl, and what pissed me off was Travis is like, I'm watching your stream now. And Travis, you immediately go, something's up with your left flipper. And I was like, there's nothing up with my left flipper. I've played this game for hours. There's nothing wrong with my left flipper.
01:44:41
Speaker
And? I looked at my flippers last night. And on the play field itself, there are two holes to show you how to align the flippers. My left flipper is not aligned perfectly.
01:44:54
Speaker
at the same spot as the right one. And it just really makes me mad that you were right.
01:45:03
Speaker
And I don't know how to feel about it. um So I knew need to adjust it. I don't think the, I haven't looked at the bushing yet. You think the bushing may be cracked too. If it does, I just don't even know anymore. Here's the great news though.
01:45:14
Speaker
Nobody else watching even noticed. Yeah, but you noticed immediately. Because I pay attention to pinball, Joel. That's the difference. playing the game. pay attention to how games play. It's fine. For hours.
01:45:25
Speaker
And it shoots great. And apparently it's just ah you know a millimeter or two lower. And it's like, God. So dropping that down a little bit ah will probably make hitting the right ramp a little easier, which is the hardest shot in game for me. So it just, it's annoying, but I can swallow my pride. I can say, Travis, you were right. Good job. just You just got to put on precision flippers. No, no.
01:45:49
Speaker
<unk>t do that Game shoots great. I don't know. change um um Maybe it's because I streamed 1440p. That's what it is. It was the high res of the pixels and you could see the flipper. um But yeah, but things are good there. I was still waiting on time. ah You know, we're an hour 45 minutes
Anticipation for New Pinball Releases
01:46:05
Speaker
in. I think well we got to talk about one thing before Tom we got to talk about Star Wars.
01:46:08
Speaker
Yeah, there's a new game coming out. That's what I was waiting on, Tom. but Fall of the Empire. i just I've heard some people say that you could take that one of two ways. Fall the Empire.
01:46:20
Speaker
Like somebody, oh look at that timing. Wow. Here he comes. Wow. That's all we had to do. He was probably standing off the side. Is it over? No, no. We were waiting. hit it perfect. We just said, we're like, hey, where we've been waiting on Tom, but we just got to get into it.
01:46:36
Speaker
ah We talked a lot about Caxos Canyon. That's what you missed. But here we are. Star Wars. There's a new Star Wars game announced. Yes. Fall the Empire. Do you care? What are your thoughts, Tom? Do I care there's a new game or that it's... Both. We want to hear your true unfiltered thoughts. Wait, time out. First off, how's your microwave?
01:47:00
Speaker
Is it great? Is it good? It's okay. It didn't exactly... it fits in the hole, but the trim didn't exactly fit, so we had to use the old trim. Uh-oh.
01:47:11
Speaker
Just send me videos and I'll let you know about the alignment. Yeah. Oh, God. It's like such a pain in the ass. But anyways. Tom, tom he was he was right about my cactus canyon flipper.
01:47:22
Speaker
It was misaligned. That's all I'm going to say. Just don't tell anybody that. And I'm sure Carl's right about your level, too. If I... God. if i i
01:47:35
Speaker
Okay, enjoy your crappy trim on your microwave, Tom. Thanks for being back. um How's the audio? Audio's great. Audio's great. um Fall of the Empire. With Spike 3, because that didn't confuse everybody seeing that on the teaser trailer.
01:47:53
Speaker
Right. For those that know, they care. For those that don't, they go, hmm? Which was a lot of people. Nobody knows what Spike 3 is entailing. So like, it's just kind of like, you know what Spike 2 is. Exactly.
01:48:06
Speaker
yeah Exactly. So a casual, as Travis would put it, do you think a casual cares about Spike 3? No, not at all. Like i I had to answer so many questions. Only people watching this podcast care.
01:48:23
Speaker
I am pumped. I personally, I'll go out on a limb and say, you just want that HDMI out, don't you? What I'm saying right now, what I'm, I am more excited about just spike three than I am fall the empire.
01:48:38
Speaker
Okay. But honest what what are you excited about? Spike three from like talking about it. what I think. I don't know. It's the same situation. But Joel doesn't even know what's in Spike 3. But that's that's what I'm excited. I'm more eager to see what Spike 3 is. I want to see what the screen is. I want to see what is new to the game. I'm more excited about that than I am whatever the layout of Fall of the Empire is. like people That's me.
01:49:03
Speaker
People are like going nuts over this, and I guarantee you they're taking it somewhere in their heads. yeah yeah you're go They're going to build it up so much. There's There's going to be riot when people see it.
01:49:17
Speaker
Keith Elwin has taken over all of the Spike 3 games. I heard a rumor. He's going to make the game amazing. yeah It's going to be... He obviously made Spike 3. Yeah, for sure. yeah here's he's already working on fly He's already working on Spike 4. Here's one thing I don't understand about some pinball people. like youre yeah you're Some people, like their imaginations just run wild. Like...
01:49:42
Speaker
I want to see the ball explode. I'm like, like what the hell are you thinking? They're going to different color balls. I had somebody text me and they were irate about the teaser.
01:49:55
Speaker
And I couldn't understand why. I'm like, it's just a teaser. It's fine, bro. And he said, I cannot believe that they're not using the main characters from Star Wars and they're adding somebody named Spike 3 to it. like Oh,
01:50:11
Speaker
No way. So you know what I did? I was like, I know. I don't know why they're doing that. It's crazy. Yeah. yeah Obviously, we we have no idea, but we know it's called Fall of the Empire.
01:50:23
Speaker
Yes. and so tore assuming We're assuming that they're going to take this to like an original... I think it is. I i think we have but we don't know, but i i assume by having a different title than all ye nine star Wars movies, that this is going to be something different.
01:50:43
Speaker
The animations and the cartoons and all the stuff that's out there. That's right. There's no video game named fall the empire. There's no other cartoon or TV show. name This is a great question here. This is the problem with trailers because it like, I just saw retro Ralph just go like absolutely ballistic.
01:51:02
Speaker
Oh, did he get mad about it or is he happy? hadn't seen it yet. No, he was, he was, well, he was kind of like, like what's going on here? You know? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, you gotta be careful with your teasers because people are going to dissect it. And if you don't, if you don't send them the right, like all marketing is, is pushing somebody's eyeballs a certain way and pushing their thoughts a certain direction where you want them to.
01:51:27
Speaker
Right. So, If I look at the teaser trailer, it tells me like if I see fall the empire spike three as somebody in pinball, I understand what they're wanting to get as somebody out of pinball.
01:51:40
Speaker
Right. Right. I don't know what all that means. I just know it's star Wars, but if I'm not in pinball, I assume that it does have to do with the main character of star Wars. If I'm not in pinball, I assume that who's the main character of star Wars anymore.
01:51:55
Speaker
fucking Jar Jar. i don't know anymore. There's too much, but still like, you know, it's just, it depends who your avatar is that you're speaking to. Now, all of us as pinball people, we already know Star Wars exists in 2017. We know that game exists.
01:52:11
Speaker
Everybody knows that game exists. So we know in our minds what it should be according to what we've seen. So it's easy to come up to the conclusion that this is like something totally different than Because we get no hints whatsoever of main characters or anything like that, which there could
Challenges in Themed Pinball Games
01:52:29
Speaker
be. There could not be.
01:52:30
Speaker
No, no. We'll find out. And here's the, but like, and then you could say the same thing with Harry Potter. I mean, it's such like, it's such a huge theme that it's really hard to please everybody.
01:52:47
Speaker
um with impossible. It's impossible. Yeah. Yeah, honestly, Will, we if we go back and we look at the Stern's last Star Wars game, I think Dwight did a fantastic job from a code standpoint.
01:53:01
Speaker
Like, I think there' is so there's movie clips, there's moments, it's really, really good. But yet everybody hates the layout ah because they just think it's barren or there's it's just like... right There were so many people, there's like, Star Wars, why would I not buy it? It's Star Wars. It's Star Wars.
01:53:14
Speaker
Why would I not buy Star Wars? And then... But unfortunately, it's not. it's not It's not the game that everybody owns. um But I don't know. it's I think it's a really difficult task. um Obviously, they did Mando just a few years back, which once again, they had a ton of movie clips. They had voice actors, the art package. I think Mando is a great game, but it's still some people don't love it because of the layout and whatnot. So it's a tough this an uphill battle right out of the gate.
01:53:42
Speaker
I just to see when I read Fall the Empire, to me, this is this is I think it's going to be like Jurassic Park. It's going to be in the world of Star Wars. but maybe you're a Jedi.
01:53:54
Speaker
Maybe you're, who are we? Is there going to be, instead of just Nedry, the one character? Now, let me ask you this. Do we have Jar Jar? Do we have somebody, one character in Star Wars holding our hand? Let me ask you to do this, like going off what you're saying here, Joel. Okay.
01:54:09
Speaker
Would you guys be on board? with And again, this is just me speculating. I want anybody be like, oh, he knows exactly what's going It's me speculating. Would you guys be on board with this game being in the world of Star Wars to where you have all the main characters, but you yourself as a player are playing a brand new character?
01:54:31
Speaker
And this happens to be some side stuff that goes on during main parts, like huge battles. You could actually have some interaction. and Possibly. You could have been one of the Jawas that pulled Boba Fett out of the pit.
01:54:45
Speaker
I mean... I want to be an Ewok. Yeah. Yeah. yeah It's really hard to... could be Finn now. You could be like the little ball that like rolls around. BB-8. It all depends on the presentation, I guess.
01:54:58
Speaker
You know? Yeah. I'd be curious. I think... I mean, something like that could be cool. But... Well... mean, it works for the video games. Force Unleashed and all that? It does. It does.
01:55:10
Speaker
if the if if We kind of elaborated with that with Harry Potter, like the whole like Hogwarts game. Where like you're a wizard, you're in the wizarding world.
01:55:23
Speaker
And I don't personally know if I would liked that if they went if they took it in that direction. Right. so What do you think? Yeah. I mean, what if you're like a storm trooper and you're helping the rebellion all of a sudden? Okay. If you do anything like What you're an Ewok?
01:55:41
Speaker
Oh. What you're an Ewok? It could be that. If they're not going to be pulling movie clips, then let's look at Stern's animation styles, right? ah You have Avengers, which is not good, ah which is basically they were given a whole bunch of 2D graphics that they just kind of did motion animation with.
01:55:59
Speaker
Not good. That's on one end. Then you have like the Turtles stuff where it's like, okay, we'll 3D animate everything, but their their quality of 3D animation in Turtles wasn't the best. So I don't want to see... i mean, they're pretty good. They don't 3D animate humans really anymore because you get a weird Uncanny Valley...
01:56:18
Speaker
It's, it's, a so I don't think, are you saying you're a Wookiee? Maybe that's it. No. Yeah. It's just all aliens. I don't know. I just, I don't know if they're going to do 3d animation. Then you have Foo Fighters, which was all like hand-drawn animation, which was really great, but I don't think that fits this type of thing. Yeah. I just, so what, I don't know what, I don't know what material they're going to be bringing into this. For me, for me personally, and I don't know if that's what Joel, Joel is alluding to, but yeah.
01:56:44
Speaker
I don't like a lot of the games where it's like, choose your character and then experience the game. you don't I mean, yeah, I get you. Why do you not like that? Like, I don't know. i don't want to talk against that, but i want to know why you don't like that or why you don't enjoy it as much.
01:57:04
Speaker
I just don't like, i feel like it's, you're like, I don't know how to describe it. Like it's like, if everything's a circle and then you have a square and you're constantly trying to fit into triangle type situation. Kinda. Yeah.
01:57:20
Speaker
yeah No, Joel, what that means, that means is because you're picking from like four different things. Like we're talking about the modifiers. The modifiers are cool. Like it really works for turtles. Like I, I don't mind it for turtles.
01:57:35
Speaker
You know, Game of Thrones. Yeah.
01:57:39
Speaker
Game of Thrones, you got it. Yeah, you pick the house. You pick your house, I guess. how I mean... D&D, you pick your character. Well, think of like ah ah Pirates of the Caribbean, Jersey Jack.
01:57:50
Speaker
but yeah All 28 characters. yeah You one of two or something. You could... yeah mean, do you think, they'll oh, what if they do that for this game? No. they do that for Star Wars?
01:58:01
Speaker
That's what I'm wondering. You could finally shoot first as Greedo or whatever his name is. Well, okay. Hey, let's let's take a step back, though, and remember when when we were there for D&D Day and they talked about like how many artists. You add characters, you're adding artwork.
01:58:15
Speaker
You're adding so much more custom, unique scenes and displays and whatnot like that. I mean, i it's we've heard from many people that D&D, the amount of art that was needed to complete that game is more than a lot of other games. And I don't think they're ever going to do that again. So i just let's you know let's set realistic expectations on Fine. God, Joel. 15 characters then. No, I, no. No? Okay. I think if if if they do any characters, I think you're looking at at like four.
01:58:44
Speaker
Four below. But still, sure. I think, I would think, if you put out a Star Wars product, you're putting it out because you want to reach retail. There's certain themes oh god that traor end that transcend things, right? This is just the way it works.
01:59:02
Speaker
Like Harry Potter should be one of those for Jersey Jack. And so Star Wars should be that for Stern. start Star Wars, I know you talked about a little bit earlier, Joel, about the cells Star Wars. I guarantee you it did well. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been on the line for it several It did very well. It came out in 2017. When they pulled it, when they put it in the vault, everybody was going, why all the distributors are going, why are you doing that?
01:59:24
Speaker
yeah Why are you doing that? Now it makes sense. Because there's a new Star Wars game. it makes sense. Because there's new one. So what I'm getting at is is, I think it will do well out of the gate. Now, the real question is the longevity of it is, is this an actual Star Wars game? Are you in the world of Star Wars? Do you interact with the actual main characters of that world? That's the most important part. I think we are definitely in the world of Star Wars.
01:59:51
Speaker
that like Right, so John Borg showed Jabba the Hutt on one of the streams. He showed it's like, it's going to be on there somewhere in the game. didn't know that. Yeah, he showed it. like it's It was on their socials and everything.
02:00:02
Speaker
Like during one of the Dead Flip streams that he did, he held it up. It was like a the it's mech. It's like a skull. I don't think it was a me. was like a skull. It was a skull. Yeah. So that right there tells you there is character.
02:00:16
Speaker
We're in the world. Yeah. And we know the timeline about, right? So, okay. You know, what so are we a bounty hunter? Is that it? I mean, i mean what what if it's just, I mean, what if it's just a pin in which they go the exact opposite from what I was talking about earlier? Cause you put too much in like too many movies, but what if it's something that allows, it's like the history of star Wars from like episodes one through six or something like that.
02:00:44
Speaker
to where they really key in on the Skywalker saga and they just totally ignore the last three movies that have come out. Right. And they might not have rogue one involved in that, or maybe they do like, well, they do something like that. But that's the thing though. If, if I think if we were tapping into any movie,
02:01:01
Speaker
It should have been in the trailer. It should have been. It should have been or the teaser. But hey, it's a tease. It's a tease. And we're supposed to get a trailer on Tuesday. So if you're listening to this i would podcast anytime after next week, you're going to laugh at us, right? Because we don't know. We really don't know. ah But what do we know? We do know John Borg is on design.
02:01:20
Speaker
ah where do you guys is John Borg on design is that exciting is that middle of the road is that disappointing I'm not trying to say anything against John Borg but John Borg design like all designers have a have a flavor to them I mean I like John Borg games yeah yeah I enjoy Walking Dead Tron Rush Guardians probably enjoy Rush more than Tom does now I think yeah Metallica I like that layout So, I mean, we can sit here and guess all day long, right? But it's, it's you know, I don't know.
02:01:52
Speaker
it It could be whatever. ah ah Yeah, I just have nothing. It could be John Borg has two flipper games. He has three flipper games. He's got fan layout games. He's got some that aren't fan layout. So he's he's been around a long time. So this layout could be a a lot of anything. would ask, what like, what has been the, because I haven't looked, what is the general perception of people? Because you mentioned Ralph had a reaction to the trailer.
02:02:15
Speaker
Like what's been the perception of people that are paying attention to this title type of stuff? Are they excited about it? Are they more excited about the spike three? Are they like, uh, another, another pin it's like fatigue. Like, I, I don't know how people are truly reacting to it.
02:02:34
Speaker
I don't know either. i didn't, I haven't listened Ralph's thing. Um, I just think, uh, I mean, if we talk about Scott from loser kids, he's a huge star Wars fan, but he's, he's like, you can tell he's almost like bitter or not like, like annoyed that,
02:02:49
Speaker
star with the old star wars in his mind isn't good enough to own and he owns a lot of games like that's so i think there are people that are huge star war fans out there that they're like they want to rehash we have another chance maybe hopefully this one's better and right out the gate coming out with the fall of the empire which seems to be an unlicensed or not unlicensed but an unthemed type of thing it's already feels like we're like oh like this may not be almost like a disney ride instead of pinball yeah that's what it kind of feels like so we're probably gonna have some unique characters here or this may be completely create you know we worked with lucas uh films to no lucas sold to disney we worked with disney to write a new story that fits within the star wars universe um you're a bounty hunter and you are working with blah blah blah i don't know
02:03:38
Speaker
I don't know. We're going to have to wait and see. But um that's where I'm saying because of that. I like John Borg. I have turtles. But most of the time his layouts like I'm not expecting. No offense, John. I'm not not that he listens, but I'm not expecting to see some crazy revolutionary layout like Elwynn usually comes in with. what do you think it'll look like?
02:03:59
Speaker
I want compare this when it comes out. It'll probably be three flipper. um And I don't know, are we doing another, you know, we got, we got different mirrors, whether it's ah X-Men or Tron or Rush or Turtles. It's just like kind of the same, just flipping it back and forth. I'm guessing we're going to have some loops.
02:04:20
Speaker
I don't know. I don't, I just, I'm not. I do. We're going to find out in September. That's all I know. Yeah. I do assume from like a from a level up standpoint, I have to assume that there's going to be some type of leveling system for like Jedi that goes beyond just hitting stand up targets. Yeah. she In the 2017 one, just...
02:04:40
Speaker
hitting the standups, right? Become like Padawan and a youngling, all Maybe what I say is feel like I've set my expectations for this game. Not low, but I don't have... Like Harry Potter, Harry Potter was rumored for so long and you said, you know, so many people on the internet, their their minds ran wild about everything that Harry Potter could And that was Jack's doing too. mind isn't running at on I'm just like... Because was like, don't buy anything else. I know. after the Avatar thing, he's like, don't buy anything. Wait till this.
02:05:10
Speaker
But this is more just like i have, I'm not setting really any expectations. I'm just, I'm excited to see what it is, but that's where, Like, I have set expectations for Spike 3.
02:05:20
Speaker
ah have set I have set goals on what... Or like, ah my my mind has wandered a whole lot more. What do you think that's going to be? Like, what do you truly think going We know the screen has changed. We know the screen has changed.
02:05:35
Speaker
And what I'm hearing is the change... There will be people that love it and there will be people that won't. So... If the screen has changed right now, we have a whatever size LCD screen is on a normal stern. If it's not that,
02:05:51
Speaker
Did they make it smaller? Highly doubt it. So did we go JJP? Now 27 inch. Boom. Most of your back boxes screen. I don't think that's going to happen. I would be surprised. My hope maybe is give me this screen. Give me a stretched screen. Give me something that's different. Something you give me a stretched screen.
02:06:12
Speaker
That's what I want. Now, he I'll tell you right now. if Stern says, hey, we're. We're going to DMD animations. Everything's dots from here on out. That way they can get over licensing and they don't have to deal with that. I would be, it's not going to happen. I don't think I would love it. Oh, I don't know if there's outside. There's no way. You guys are playing mechanics.
02:06:33
Speaker
i I don't, I don't know there's company out there. So 1990s. Yeah, I know. so I don't know. I don't know if there's a company out there. It's ballsy enough to yeah revert back from LCD to that.
02:06:45
Speaker
But it's so beautiful. It's good art. Anyways, okay. So let's just let's just say it's happening. Star Wars is happening. It's coming. But... Spike 3 is kind of happening.
02:06:57
Speaker
Spike 3, not all of Spike 3 apparently is on this game, but some of Spike 3. But it's in the trailer, so it's like... i know I hope somebody explains to me when it comes out, like, oh, what's missing?
02:07:08
Speaker
My guess... My guess is it's something probably... i'm guessing kind of expression lighting will... There's probably a new version of Expression Lights, but it's unfortunately not going to be in every game.
02:07:21
Speaker
So it won't be in Star Wars, but maybe whatever the next game is, is if it's a music pin or a game that does work with the Expression Light system, that's what we'll see going forward. That's my guess. That's my guess. But I'm expecting to see something different with the back box, different video or different display, different speakers, different something. That's what I'm that's what I want to see.
02:07:42
Speaker
So um other things we can mention real quick.
02:07:48
Speaker
Predator. ah What? Yep. Predator is there. We got some weird tariff stuff going on. We got some weird sales stuff. ah None of us are planning on buying it. Let's wait and see. I'll probably stream it if Zach gets one.
02:08:04
Speaker
That's Predator. Alice in Wonderland. Alice Wonderland is here. here We have heard some people of that have played it. And the feedback, let me just read it. I won't say who it's from, but it is somebody that we do appreciate and respect.
02:08:24
Speaker
The words they said, do do do it's worth it. Let me just, word let me it was, ah come on, where's it?
02:08:36
Speaker
ah Okay. The words that were said were, what a shit game. That was it. That was all so was all that was said. we talking about which Alice we aller thomas wonderland that is feedback right there.
02:08:53
Speaker
That was it. Are we talking about the Kickstarter one or we talking about Dutch one? The Dutch one. The Dutch one. ah Yeah. um i That was it. That was the feedback that we got.
02:09:04
Speaker
I played it a few times. It was that Electric Playground. Still there. It was at a women's launch party. And then also played it at Expo. Yeah.
02:09:15
Speaker
And everything. And it's something. Well, there's outlaying spinners that you activate with your flipper. And that was the only other bit of official feedback we got. The outlane saves do nothing but push the ball to the outlane.
02:09:30
Speaker
So... Yeah. ah So it is. Maybe confirm is maybe that player's not a very good player, though. That's probably what it is. It's probably a lack of skill. Have you guys not loved the left shot?
02:09:43
Speaker
theres You know what the left shot does? I've never touched The orbit that's not an orbit, it just kind loops. Isn't it just little loop? It loops back and dribbles back to your flipper. wow I don't know. right um I played it at Expo last year. No, you do know, Joel. You do know.
02:09:57
Speaker
This one you do know. Did you have fun playing on it? No, in my opinion, it's very clear. If you buy... And I'm sorry to anybody of that this off offends, but at the same time, I feel like people that are buying Alice are buying it as an art piece. They're buying it because of what it looks like.
02:10:14
Speaker
I don't think anybody has realistic expectations of like, ooh, the code in this game is just really what draws you in. Or ooh, the kinetic satisfaction of hitting this and this and this and this is just, I just can't get enough of hitting these shots.
02:10:27
Speaker
I just, I don't think we're going to hear that out of Alice, Alice in Wonderland. I think it's, I think it's for the collectors that love the way it looks and love, um, the mechs and the 3d sculpts and everything that in there. And they love John Papa Duke.
02:10:41
Speaker
Maybe, maybe. Yeah. Uh, I don't know. I don't know. I really have nothing besides that. I know, uh, P3, we're kind of just waiting, waiting for portal to be made and those aren't out yet.
02:10:52
Speaker
Um, there's tariffs still haven't you heard? Sure have. Yep. We, we all enjoyed portal at TPF. So it's, uh, I'm excited. My shout out to Chris, one of my local friends who he dove in on the P3 and he's, it's, uh,
02:11:08
Speaker
he owns almost every module at this point. He's like, he's got a princess bride. He has princess bride. He has Wonka.
P3 Platform Excitement
02:11:14
Speaker
Uh, not Wonka. Um, yeah weird out. He has Willy Wonka P3. He just got, um, he just got final resistance and it's, and that's the joy or the perk of the P3, right? It's like you have it. So what's two grand more for another game. What's three grand more for another game. Like it's just, ah he's, he's loving it.
02:11:32
Speaker
He's absolutely loving it. Super easy. Barely an inconvenience. Yeah. yeah Um, I don't know. That's all I got.
Pinball Tournament Dynamics
02:11:38
Speaker
ah We are running out of time. and We said we were going to do tournament talk. We did do tournament talk. We did do tournament talk.
02:11:45
Speaker
We got Papa coming up. Papa's exciting. We got world championships to win, Joel. Okay, explain this to me. Explain this. so You said world championships. Yeah, like so if you win, if you win you're a world champion.
02:12:00
Speaker
That's how it works. but That's what I don't understand. is didn't we have Wasn't there a tournament over in Europe just a few months ago that was Worlds? There's multiple world championships. That's what I'm saying. There's multiple majors.
02:12:12
Speaker
Do you watch sports at all? For tennis or bowling? There is one bull Super Bowl. pong? There is one Super Bowl. There is one World Series. There's a Pro Bowl.
02:12:25
Speaker
There is one NBA finals. That's what I'm saying. Is there, but you're saying majors like golf. Okay. There's multiple majors, right? Okay. I understand what you're saying now. Okay. i understand. Okay.
02:12:37
Speaker
Carl Indisk. It's not a major. Sorry, buddy. And what what's the other one? Step up your game. Ifba. Okay. Josh, ifba is not a major anymore. Sorry. kind What about Pemberg?
02:12:48
Speaker
No. ah yeah it's It's just Papa now. you're you European pinball championship. Can you at least acknowledge... all the Europeans. Everybody listens in Germany. We love you guys. England, we love you guys. But sorry, you guys don't have a major anymore. We just went over to to play Worlds.
02:13:06
Speaker
Worlds seems like that. Why are you pronouncing it like that? Worlds. Worlds. Worlds. Joel. Worlds, there you go There is a movement in pinball.
02:13:18
Speaker
Tell me more time. Joel. Joel is is one of the the forefront runners of this. they They just hate tournaments.
02:13:29
Speaker
They hate tournaments. No, no. They're on the front page. They're the front page of IMPA. They won't put me on the front page anymore. me ask this. But they'll put Joel on the front page in his tournament-hating ass. Like, unbelievable. I did apply to Twitch.
02:13:45
Speaker
Tim, if you were going to win, if you could only win one, one tournament next year, you can only win one tournament, which tournament is the one that you want? Like, what's the one you're most... That's what I'm saying. that Because if there isn't a top, is ah if there isn't a, like...
02:14:03
Speaker
Is there one that's considered the top tournament to win? it's just you want to win one of these majors. I can't go to IFPA anymore because I'm not ranked high enough, so that's out.
02:14:16
Speaker
So then it would be Pinberg, Indus, EPC, or Papa. And since I'm streaming Papa next, I'm going to pick Papa.
02:14:30
Speaker
Good choice. This tournament in a week? Is that right? September 4th through the 7th. Okay. When I got into the hobby, that's when Pinnberg was still happening and pinburg learned like in Pennsylvania. right and that was the one That to me, i felt i was the vibe that I got that like was Pinnberg was the top.
02:14:54
Speaker
That was the top one. so For Elwin to win it what two, three years in a row, like that's a... that was a big deal. But the more that I've gotten into this, realizing it's like, no, there's worlds. And to qualify that you have to win, you have to be ranked certain amounts. And then I go in the U S it's like to play in certain tournaments, you have to be the winner of your state tournament.
02:15:13
Speaker
yeah nationals and all that Yeah. I mean, I would say in the past, the most impressive one would have been Pinberg in the past, just because it's a thousand plus players. Yeah. You're playing like every era of game and every like,
02:15:27
Speaker
you have to be like a true all around pinball player. Like I would, I would have said that that's like the top one in the past. Now to me personally, I think it's a tie between disc and if, but because if, but you gotta be a certain rank,
02:15:42
Speaker
yeah have to play against the best players in the world, like the whole entire time. You get like you get no easy games. And then on top of that, it's even though I don't like the format, it's heads up, which is the most purest, let's see who the best player is format on the game that you're choosing.
02:16:00
Speaker
And you got to choose different eras again. Like that's so. It's up as one v one Yep. You versus me. Yep. And it could be. You prefer to play four player games. Right. It could just be a few games. It could be up to nine games. It just depends.
02:16:12
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, I think that and just, you know for N-Disc, it's just because it's card format and it's incredibly difficult to do to put five games in a row. And even though it's 40 in finals, I mean, that's nerve wracking.
02:16:24
Speaker
You know, you got to play great games and you got to have a lot of breaks go your way as well. So why are that why is Papa going to be good? Why are you, why is this one? Why is Papa going to be good? Because we're going to dethrone Raymond Davidson, Joel. That's who won last year?
02:16:39
Speaker
That's who won last year, yeah. um though Isn't it, it's at Interium, right? So it's like his own turf. So he just knows all the games and he cheats, right? No, he well earned it. He had a hard group last year.
02:16:51
Speaker
Tom's kid was in it. And then you had, I think it was... Yeah. Z-Mac and Escher was in it. So yeah, I mean, it's tough. I think what's interesting about Papa, it's not, and I say this and I probably won't qualify now. It's not so much of the qualifying is hard.
02:17:08
Speaker
It's the grind of finals. Cause it's like 72 or something like that. Top 72. Is that what it, yeah. It's so many people in finals and that makes, if you don't get a buy, that is a super long day. But it's cool because it reminds me of like the NCAA tournament. So you're going to see some like upsets and things like that. You know, it just, there's there's more opportunities there than anywhere else to get into the finals.
02:17:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah. That's awesome. 100%. But granted, there's 270-plus players signed up. So, you know. So anybody could sign up? There was no qualifying to it? you could sign up right now.
02:17:51
Speaker
Your qualifying is how big is your bank account? Like, you got to pay the entry fee, and then you're good to go. You should show up, Joel. You should play. $20 cards. Five, five.
02:18:04
Speaker
you know If I was a single man, but it is limit i see there's so much more pinball I would do. there is Really? Oh, yeah. I would play in tournaments. Would you? I think if I was single, I wouldn't play as much pinball.
02:18:18
Speaker
I think I'd be the opposite. tiger Because I go to this with family. go this with like... That's my problem. My kids are too young to play competitively and my It's always about Joel. Not interested. What about you, Tom? If you were single, would you do more pinball? I am. Starting family dynasty. No, just kidding. He's got heels of... He's a world-class player. He's got other boys.
02:18:41
Speaker
ah I mean, I already play a lot of pinball being married, so... I mean, I kind of got the best of both worlds, I guess. He's figured out. Yep. True. True. um but i don't think i could ever be single though i'd be in trouble i don't don't like nothing would work in your house i would not everything would be broken yeah it would be you would have a show you'd have no toothpaste you would have run out and never got a new one it would be like kevin off home alone just like going to the store and trying to figure out how this all works and all shit be falling through the bags yeah
02:19:15
Speaker
I did want to say for, uh, for Papa, it is dedicated to the memory of Lyman sheets and we, we have the, uh, 988 national suicide prevention, the hotline that we, that's basically donations
Promoting Mental Health and Engagement
02:19:35
Speaker
go to that. So, nice um, it's a big thing, you know? Yeah.
02:19:41
Speaker
Especially, you know i you know, I'm in the career of the number one suicide rate. So, you know, at the it speaks volumes. so it's a good cause. yeah So that you said that's the 988?
02:20:02
Speaker
Yep. Lifeline, right? Correct. Correct. and On our stream, we're going to have a ah a link basically where you could donate to that if you're watching.
02:20:15
Speaker
um Nice. Very cool. And I know Penny's very involved yes and in this whole thing. Absolutely. so yeah And they're doing a raffle too and all that as well. There's a ton of giveaways she has. Yeah, I think they're even doing like two pinball machines, but I don't know that's for people that are there or if people online could do that too. I think that part's just for people that are there that are signed up for the tournament. Correct. Yeah, that's really neat.
02:20:40
Speaker
Well, we have gone two hours and 20 minutes. Oh, yeah. Not me. Tom's only gone for an hour and 45 minutes. And we had no agenda. We had no agenda going into this. The agenda was hanging out, Joel.
02:20:53
Speaker
Yeah. I hope it was good. The agenda was Joel calling me Tim. You logged in as Tim. I did. um Let's plug it up. Tom Graff, go ahead and start with the plugs.
02:21:08
Speaker
Ah. ah I am going to be streaming on Fox City's Pinball on Twitch. ah We're going to be doing Papa. We're going to be doing Slaps. We're going to be doing Expo. We're going to be doing Atomic Pinball in December. We got a lot of stuff coming up. So if you like tournament pinball and you're not Joel, you'll you'll enjoy it.
02:21:35
Speaker
uh check out his swag on silverballswag.com you can get fox swag there you can also get triple drain swag i'm the one i'm wearing a purdue sweatshirt they are rocking the triple drain well done guys well done um you can check out uh that so silverballswag.com uh if you want think we still have a zazzle store if you want a triple drain lunchbox i think we sold like six of those but uh it was worth let's make it seven let's go was worth it um but yeah all right uh travis plug away yeah you guys can find me right here on triple drain the youtube channel is triple drain i think right that sounds right it's one of those okay yeah or you guys can find me over my other job the pinball company youtube channel where i chill out there and do all things pinball some things not pinball sometimes make fun of joel sometimes don't but we still love joel
02:22:25
Speaker
I don't think you've made fun of me on that channel yet. I think i made i made reference to you once, I think. Oh, great. Okay. Yeah. all right. And I'm Joel. Obviously, I'm here on Triple Drain, and then I do the Flippin' Out Pinball stream every Wednesday night with my brother, Jared. ah we have Swag on Silverball Swag as well. Check out our YouTube for tutorials and our live streams. We just streamed Cactus Canyon with the upgrade kit. Had a lot of fun with that.
02:22:49
Speaker
um And yeah. That's all I got. So ah with all that said, ah Tom, you get the last words. Play more pinball.