Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Episode 61 - TPF Prep 2025

Transcript

Speaker: We're Triple, Triple Drain.

Speaker: Okay, that's ah we're trying something new here. We're trying something new. That was awkward. I don't think Travis likes it. No, it's incredibly awkward. We even do an intro or anything. We're just well playing a theme song from the beginning.

Speaker: So here's the deal. So first off, um I know there are people that listen to this podcast that just skip ahead like five minutes, every single episode. So normally we start the episode...

Speaker: Hey, are you ready? What's going on? We make fun of each other. you know, the all the scripts, you know, the typical script that I write for us. You need to listen. Yeah. This, this part's definitely keeping people from skipping for sure. Yeah. Like right now.

Speaker: Oh yeah. Oh, you want to get straight to pinball news. Um, No, what I'm saying is normally we do that, but there's a change. There's a change going on. And the change is triple drain. We are leaving TPN.

Speaker: um We are leaving the pinball network. ah There's nothing. There's no issues. There's no problems. There's no drama. There's nothing. Really what it comes down to was we did 30 episodes of just audio.

Speaker: So right around episode 30, we added video. We added video. We've been doing video now for 30 episodes. We just had episode 60. So here's a great transition point. Episode 61 and beyond. We are now, we're going to be independent.

Speaker: We're going to be independent. So what does that mean? Listeners or viewers, please pause the episode. And what you're going to to do is you're going to want to go to whatever your podcatcher is and just search triple drain pinball podcast and you should see a new podcast.

Speaker: subscribe to that or follow that or like that. All of our previous episodes are there. If for whatever reason you want to go back, but find ah the podcast is unique. And then if you're on YouTube, please pause the, pause the video. I'll put the link in the description, search triple but drain pinball podcast. And we now have, we've released our, our triple drain YouTube channel.

Speaker: So I, we may have one, this is a joint release right now on TPN and triple drain, but we may have one more of those. I don't know, but for future videos, you are going to want to see those on our dedicated YouTube channel.

Speaker: So sorry that you guys are gonna have to put in a little bit of work, to migrate over, but we appreciate you. We don't want to lose you guys as viewers or listeners. So please follow our unique channels.

Speaker: Travis, you had held up your hand about a minute ago and I ignored it. Did you something you wanted to say? I'm just hoping like everybody didn't pause immediately right there. Like pause the channel before you talked about or pause the video before you start talking about what you needed to. Maybe Travis, ignore just time.

Speaker: Ignore that previous pause and don't skip ahead. We have to establish all that. I was going to be, we have to say it in the middle of the episode for the people that automatically skip ahead. We're going to have to, because there's somebody out there that skipped ahead and they're going to be like, what the hell's going on? Yeah.

Speaker: Yep. Yep. Yep. So, um, updates, updates. First off, Tom, we missed you. We missed you last week or not last week. We missed you last episode. Uh, Travis and I had to be nice to each other. And, um, what are you talking about? Okay. That's horse shit.

Speaker: That's what we agreed on. And Joel like threw me under the bus within like eight to ten minutes. And I just get memed to death. And I get messages nonstop. Like, yeah. ah Tom, you've seen it. I'm sure there were, you know, I got tons of email. And and and people are like, leave triple drain? Yeah.

Speaker: No, you're a busy man. You're traveling America between work and and tournaments, and we just barely locked down. Did you go cosplay as Walter White while you were gone, Tom? yeah No, no. I always wanted to be like Stone Cold Steve Austin. Oh, yeah?

Speaker: Yeah. You got a beer right now for 9 o'clock in the morning? You ready? No, I had that last night. for on For the audio only listeners, Tom has shaved his head. So it's we got a different... we got We had bearded Tom, so we got villainous Tom was added. That was a new thing roughly, i don't know, six months ago.

Speaker: Now we got a shaved head. so So for the audio listeners, if you want to see Walter White, Tom Graff, go to the Triple Drain Pinball Podcast YouTube channel. You'll see it immediately. yeah because There's a good plug.

Speaker: Yeah. Well done. Well done. But don't pause. Don't pause the episode. No, don't pause because you're listening to us on audio. You can keep it going and you can multitask.

Speaker: So this is perfect. Like put down Facebook, grab your iPhone, like, yeah, do all that stuff. You're good. um Tom, you're an unbiased opinion. You have seen Travis's calves in person. What the hell? Why are we still talking about this? They're half the size of L ones. That's all right. All right.

Speaker: All right, fine. You know, and we're going just address this right now. didn't he grow up in like California? There's like a lot of mountains. It's obvious. Like your calves just naturally. moving I got the feeling like yeah Elwin probably walks up a mountainside with like old, like stone stairs just to go up into like The fiery pits of a temple to create whatever whatever layout that he's creating. That's probably what it is. And meanwhile, me just chilling out in St. Louis, you know, just doing whatever.

Speaker: know what is? You guys haven't noticed, but Keith Elwin, when he plays pinball, he stands on his tippy the whole time. That topper behind you is going crazy. Yeah, the evil dead topper. That's pretty cool. That topper's doing some calf raises right now. imagine and Imagine the topper doing something.

Speaker: Elwin just does cap. That's what he's saying. He plays pinball on his tippy toes or does calf raises the whole time he plays. you know And he's not short. it just That's how he gets his calves. I knew I was messing up. yeahp It's fine.

Speaker: The real question is... At TPF, I'm just going to wear jeans the whole time. He's wearing sweats. That's what i was going to say, guys. At TPF, just be nice to him. If you wear shorts... If anybody comes up being mean, I swear...

Speaker: I'm going to dick punch Joel as soon as I see him every single time. He wore shorts the first day people would be like, Travis, they're not that small. And he's like, he goes back and puts on sweats. I'm sorry, man. I'm not trying to make fun of your body. I'm not doing it. It's not fair to you.

Speaker: It's just body shaming, man. Body shaming. It's 2025. You can't do this, Joel. You're going to get canceled right now. Okay, let's talk let's talk about um let's talk about TPF, Texas Pinball Festival. So we always want to record an episode before TPF. No, we got to talk about Twippies first. You said that.

Speaker: You're right. Twippies. I want to talk about Twippies because there was two of us here that was nominated and one of us just getting made fun of the whole time. And obviously I just got made fun of. So you two knuckleheads. How did you get made make fun of you. Who made fun of you?

Speaker: Well, we just. Monica makes fun of every day. It doesn't mean our fault. We feel more sorry for you than anything else. No, I'm just being gaslighted. You just spent the past five minutes talking about my legs again. thought something would tell. No, okay.

Speaker: yeah Oh, no, no, I'm not talking about that. I don't care about being nominated and all that, except for like everybody that didn't nominate me. I already told them they're all dead to me. So the one, the other ones were fine. But well, no, you guys, maybe you guys did semi well that I, cause I honestly, I don't, except for a couple of the categories. I honestly don't know the results.

Speaker: Okay. like well Like I know, I know the podcasting one because that was like a whole shit show on Facebook. I know game of the year. Okay, we'll them. And outside of that, I don't know.

Speaker: We'll go through them. What I was going to say is the Pinball Degenerates Award art this weekend, maybe they added a Sexiest Leg category, and you might have a shot on that. You might. yeah I already have a Pinball Degenerates Award. That's all I need. yeah Okay, so Twippies. I'm not going to go through every category, but essentially Jaws dominated.

Speaker: Jaws dominated um in pretty much every category. um There was ah the innovation of the year was surprising. X-Men won that. The Danger Room is cool.

Speaker: I know that was one that did surprise me that Flip Lock or ja Jaws, I think the 8-bit mode. there' I think Jaws was nominated for two innovations of the year. um But once mean, good, good on good on um X-Men for winning in that innovation of the year. Another big upset was Jaws won LCD.

Speaker: That's the first time that Jersey Jack hasn't won LCD. um Usually Jersey Jack has won like best LCD and animations literally every year. They they they dominate that.

Speaker: Um, and then, yeah, overall it was it was a good showing. It was a good showing for jaws. Uh, when it comes to creators, a huge thank you to the people that voted, um, flipping out, we got second for best video and Tom Fox cities pinball got third.

Speaker: So we, uh, the, out of the three of us, two of us are, uh, top three, top three video creators in pinball. Um, yeah, um I'll just leave it at that. There's no need to say anything more. Right.

Speaker: So yeah you know thank you for anybody that voted for me. Tom, do you want to thank your unless. Oh, I was, I was shocked. I got nominated in the top three, which was, which was awesome. I mean, I, yeah, I thank you.

Speaker: Yes. And so they combined streaming and video creator into one category this year. So, um, Carrie Hardy, Carrie Hardy won best video creator. And then when, um, when it came to best content creator, best overall content creator,

Speaker: uh flipping out pinball stream we got third we got third uh carrie hardy won that and then it was the the winner for second was uh it was like pirate princess jess or something it's ah somebody i don't know i don't i don't know them um so i'll have to look up their content but um but yeah anybody that voted on on flipping out there appreciate that uh triple drain when it came to podcasts we got sixth we got sixth so um appreciate it working hard enough Everybody that voted on us there. We've got to put in the hours. That's what we've got to do. Yeah. Yeah. All right, guys. Saturday morning shows, Sunday night shows, Monday night shows, Thursday night shows. No, no, no, no, no. no At the end of the month. No, according to some. Tom's OnlyFans is coming over as well. We're going to do that.

Speaker: No, according to some people, the only way now to win Best Podcast is you have to own and operate an arcade and then get every one of your people to vote for you right isn't that the only way that i' somebody can win what what have i been telling you guys bad for the past four years the past four years i've told you two knuckleheads that yes all it takes is just one company one business to really want to win and they will win like no matter what if stern really wanted to win everything

Speaker: They would. you would just do a marketing campaign. If Jersey Jack really wanted to win ah category, they could just do some marketing. If we wanted to do it, we could just do a shit ton of marketing. Like, you know, there's nothing that prevents that from happening.

Speaker: What? um Travis's audio just cut in and out there a few times. I don't know if that's going make it. We'll see if that makes it to the final. Here's the deal. why you weren like this and yeah Behind the curtains, I had a little technical difficulties before. Tom had some technical difficult but difficulties before. Travis was over here. We were all cocky.

Speaker: Oh, the only one of us that wasn't nominated for a video twip. He didn't have audio issues today. so I did for the first 45 minutes. Yeah. Oh my God. No, what we're saying all this in jest. We're saying all this in sarcasm. Honestly, uh, kale and Rachel with electric bat arcade. Those are two of the nicest people in pinball.

Speaker: I have nothing but the utmost respect for them. The fact that they've made pinball literally their life and their livelihood. They deserve all the credit and love and appreciation that they get. So the fact that electric bat arcade won best podcast,

Speaker: thumbs Huge thumbs up, round of applause for them. They deserve it. Yeah, that doesn't shock me at all because they have so many supporters and they work their asses off seven days a week doing a location. So yeah, and it's one of the top locations in the entire world. like There's nothing shocking that they're getting the fruits of their labor now.

Speaker: But also, they are delivering little bit. little We'll see. Oh my gosh. What I will... What I'm saying, this is what I'll say. So, um, uh, electric battercade, the fact that they,

Speaker: They actually release a lot of data that a lot of other podcasts don't because they can talk about games on route. What's doing well, what's not doing well, what mechs are working. I mean, they just have a very interesting perspective compared to a lot of other podcasts out there, ours included, which is just our personal opinions and thoughts on pinball. So um yeah, a huge respect to them.

Speaker: ah What I'm going to do at this moment is I'm actually going to pause the recording to make sure that Travis's stuff doesn't keep breaking. So just saying. So is this fine? Everything's great. Everything's great. Everything's Are we good? We are good. i don't know. what um For all the listeners, thanks for bearing with us.

Speaker: I don't know how much of that I'm going to cut or I don't know how I'm going to edit that all together. But basically, what Travis discovered was somehow his computer was running on Wi-Fi because his kids unplugged his Ethernet cable.

Speaker: So, ah yeah. But here we go. We're back. So the lesson is never have children that don't tell you what they're doing around your gaming stuff. yes Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. So where were we? Where were we? Were we Twippies or I think we're good with Twippies. I think we're good on that. TPF, you did want to plug Thursday night, the Thursday night before the Twippies. Go ahead and plug away, Travis.

Speaker: um Karaoke. Yeah, I got to bring up the thing. while he's bringing that up, there's a karaoke night. If any of the listeners want to join, go ahead, Travis. I'm totally ready. If we're on the YouTube, Joel, edit this in, put it up yeah in front of us. If you can put up a picture of me and my body, you can definitely put up a picture of this poster.

Speaker: Anyway, so it's a karaoke party. mark I will put up a picture. I don't, I'm not going to promise it's the picture you want. Damn it. Okay. So there's a karaoke party down at TPF on Thursday night at two brothers grill and bar, which is at 8308 Preston road and Plano. and that starts at nine 30 and it runs till like one 30 or two in the morning, but it's like an annual,

Speaker: thing that we do karaoke party that a group from Tulsa, Oklahoma, Hanger Pinball, they sponsor. We have like tables saved, put aside. So yeah, this is beautiful voice.

Speaker: Oh yeah. I absolutely crush it, but it a good time last year. There was like maybe 45, 50 of us there, I think last year. And it's usually a full, full packed place too. So it's a lot of fun. So you're going to karaoke and you're going to TPF Thursday night, do that.

Speaker: Can't wait to embarrass myself doing it. Yeah, there you go. Tom will be there. Joel, though. Joel's dishes. I'm not flying until Friday morning. so It's fine. But even if you don't sing, like still, you can come on out. You're not forced to sing. You can just hang out with us, chill out, have drink, have fun, talk pinball, all that.

Speaker: Okay. All right. Thank you, Joel. I appreciate So TPF, TPF. Well, yeah, this is our pre-TPF episode. So we usually like to roll through what to expect. What are going to see? What are you not going to see?

Speaker: um All three of us will be there. Please, if you see us there at TPF, come say hi. We'd love to talk to you. um But yeah, let's just start with... if we look like we're confused for a minute, just ignore it.

Speaker: just lead if you see Just lead Tom back to the tournament area. yeah yes yeah just If I'm actively playing a tournament game and you interrupt me, I might might punch you.

Speaker: Yeah, okay, yeah. How about that? Okay. He's so aggressive. Let's threaten our audience. looks Yes. ah Yes. That audience that we're asking. The audience that we're asking to to jump ship with us, you know, please.

Speaker: Have you subscribed to the new one? Yes. Just don't touch Tom when he's playing a pinball game. That's serious Tom takes his tournament. you You see Joel playing on a machine. Just go up there and shake the shit out of it while he's playing.

Speaker: go We were talking about Evil Dead we were before. We were before Travis had technical difficulties. though the The one that was bragging about not. okay Now we're all we've all done it. 61 episodes and we're all still struggling. i will spend 30 seconds on this.

Speaker: a it Put it into the record. i'm got Joel, who is it? Who is the only one that didn't have any issues at the very beginning of this as soon as we got into the room and we're just chilling out for like first 20, 30 minutes? Sure, Travis. You did not have any issues not until you had issues. You're right. Okay. So Evil but evil Dead. Let's talk about Evil Dead.

Speaker: Tom has not played it. i have now I've had this game in my house for a few days, so i've I have a few hours of play on it. It scares me. It's the only game. It's the only game I've ever borrowed from Zach where honestly i have to, I cover it in blankets. I fold the head down and I cover it.

Speaker: Like our kid, my kids have not seen it because I don't, they see that topper one time and they will, my son will be in our bed for weeks. So, um, with all that said, that I might be in my wife's bed for a week.

Speaker: Ooh, God.

Speaker: uh with all that said the game is um franchi crushed it like the art on the game the game looks so beautiful in person it looks and the topper is obscene in person it's it's um if you're looking on the video uh once again the video on our youtube channel um if you do look you will see that this game is a few inches higher than the other ones um there was an issue nothing was flipping out there was an issue with um The delivery of another game, there was a missing leg.

Speaker: So they gave they gave one of the Evil Dead legs. ah In the meantime, ah once again, nothing with flipping out there. So they made it right. So when this game appeared to me, it only had three legs and we got creative. So we put four stern legs on it just so I could stream the game.

Speaker: So this game is currently on four stern games stern legs, which is why it's higher. It's a wide body, so it just feels like an XL game in all in all areas. It's taller and it's imagine you unbox the game and you're like...

Speaker: there's threes yeah There's three. only three legs. What do do? But Travis, your stuff happens. You know this. You work for a pinball distributor. Stuff happens.

Speaker: Honestly, here here's what I would do. i would run out by bar stool and just put it in the back. Well, I get it. You, ah I understand. Yes. I mean, that would be my temporary solution, but anyways, go ahead, Joel.

Speaker: They made it right. And I got creative to make this right. And this is, this is, so it's, it's on stern legs. So it's taller. So I just, I don't want any evil dead buyer to see this and be like, what is that going to light up? No. No, it's it'll fit well.

Speaker: Now, this topper, though, will stand out and in your collection because it's incredible. My wife also put two bobby pins in the hair for me because the hair was, like, all down in front of the face.

Speaker: and And I was like, Nicole, can you, like, put her hair back? So I actually have a good picture. I'll add that picture now. I'll add that picture. but being Now, of my wife putting bobby pins in there.

Speaker: she I don't, you know, she just kind of... But anyways, Evil Dead. Travis, you have played Evil Dead. What are your initial impressions of Evil Dead to let the listeners slash viewers know what they should expect when they play it at TPF?

Speaker: word Same as last week. ah I'm sorry. I can't. I can't right now. Between legs and bobby pins and i know tom Tom being in bed with his wife for a week. I mean, we're we're kind of all over the And threatening our listeners to punch them in the face.

Speaker: Welcome to Triple Drain, everybody. I share my fantasies with everybody. What?

Speaker: I mean, we could really dive in on which part of all of that is your fantasy, but ah let's... Okay. All right. I have so many kids.

Speaker: Yeah. Okay. okay i will Joel's getting so yeah let's stay on topic and but i just we don't even know what to do at this point we we so evil i would say the gone off the rails but the the episode I don't know if the episode even started on the rails it's because it's Friday I know we've all had technical issues we mixed up our intro This is a sixth place podcast effort right here, guys. I'm super proud of us right now. Yes, yes, yes. ah So what was your question, Joel? My initial thoughts? If you want to share more thoughts on Evil Dead before I do, you're welcome to at this point. No, I mean, I just played a couple of games on it. It's fine. It was fun.

Speaker: was a pinball machine. Evil Dead 1, Evil Dead 2. I mean, yes yeah, I think it's it's one of their more interesting games they've come out with. I'm more interested in this than Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

Speaker: Then ah Looney Tunes. Sorry, I'm still trying to keep it together. You're good. um um Yeah, so that's it. Yeah, that's that's all I got. That's a solid review.

Speaker: I will say i want to I want to play it more at TPF. I want to play with you guys. I want to play it down there with, you know, Bug or Luke by there. So that way, you know, kind of like when they explained out Texas Chainsaw Massacre to us that one year, Joel, that way we can kind of get... Super helpful.

Speaker: Yeah, that way we can get more explanations because I'm genuinely curious. You know, it's... um Horror, it's interesting because I watch a lot of it like on my downtime as movies, like always have since I was a kid.

Speaker: So I'm fascinated by it as a pinball machine because obviously, you know it's it's a very niche thing of a niche thing that they've carved out. So I'm always interested to see how...

Speaker: that can be integrated in and evil dead is just such an interesting franchise because I personally don't really like the first two movies. I've seen them like several times because I just, you know, for whatever reason, I've just been in different situations to see it. But, um, the third one army of darkness, like I really like, like that one I really enjoy, but it's just, it's interesting because when you look at evil dead, if you watch the movie, if you never watched it, you'll watch it. You'll be like, how the F can this be a pinball machine?

Speaker: Like, how do yeah yeah do you even begin? i think that's the feeling everybody gets. So the fact that they figured it out, it seems like they figured it out, is like, to me, that speaks volumes about what they have going on there.

Speaker: Now, it may not be somebody's cup of tea if they're not into horror or into having, you know, that type of topper in their basement because they got to cover it up all the time like Joel does. But... you know, there's obviously a group of people out there that thoroughly enjoy that. So that's good that they're able to create a product that serves that particular niche or that particular customer base.

Speaker: I agree. There's, uh, what I will say with evil dead, I've only seen the first one. I actually watched earlier this week. I need to watch the second one before the, I stream it next week. But, um, uh, if you're a fan of evil dead, you will, they, they did the property justice. Like you, they, this, they have, it's all there.

Speaker: The, the, um, The audio clips, the video clips, the art is is on point. And then, honestly, the way it's set up, ah you have four modes that are that are based off of the first movie. You have four modes that are based off of the second movie.

Speaker: And the modes are are awesome. they're They're story-based modes. Like, you are playing out a scene. You're playing out something that happened in the movie. So you're not living in the world of Evil Dead. Like, no, you're experiencing...

Speaker: the, the situations that the, that the people faced. I was very curious how horror was going to work, uh, in pinball, but, um, honestly, one of the, one of the modes you're being chased by evil and you have to, at one point you have to hit a bunch shots and then you have to hide.

Speaker: So you can hide in, in any of the areas that you can lock a ball. So the cellar under the ramp, and then like the machine goes dark, And so you're focusing on the LCD where like Ash is like peeking out and then there's like a jump effect.

Speaker: So it's like they really brought a lot of the theme. There's some of the modes. um There's this hacker up, I think hack them up or hacker up mode where... you're hitting red shots and it's the scene where the guy's using the ax to chop up this zombie like lady.

Speaker: And, um, every time you hit a red shot, the knockers going off. So like, not only do you see it on the screen, but the audio package is fantastic. You're hearing the chopping and the screaming, the, the, the screen, the, the game itself is crazy lighting effects. And then you have this knocker going off, making this knocking sound where you're, where you're hacking away.

Speaker: Um, so, Long story short, just because I'm going to play this game a lot more, my brother and I had a blast playing this this week. i i We're a sucker. I understand the three of us view pinball very differently.

Speaker: um And I know you guys... Typically view games with the tournament mentality. You guys want to find a path. You want to find a repeatable, reliable way to points.

Speaker: So I understand that even D&D, you know, we've had a lot of conversations about D&D of like, Travis has been tackling D&D in a different way than I do. um Not all the time. I know you're doing the because I know at home you do wizard modes, but i know you got to remember, Joel, you're thinking of my own personal thing. I also have to actively think of it from an end consumer point. And the most true consumers are not tournament players.

Speaker: So like I have to shut that off whenever I'm actually like formulating, okay, what is this game? yeah What does it mean? What does it do? What are the sounds? like That's truly how I judge it. like Points or whatever.

Speaker: like That's cool and all. But honestly, what we all have to do, we all want to... make a certain amount of progress in the game, right? Some people want to get to a wizard mode. Some people just want to light a certain mode. Some people just want to play multiball, right? It's at different levels.

Speaker: Yeah. So I think that's truly like kind of the way that ah you look at it. But no, I agree. I think all three of us look at it from the from the standpoint of what is our priority when enjoying pinball.

Speaker: Sure. So for for some people, it's absolutely blown up a machine. For others, it's just trying to keep the ball above the flippers. My, yes. And I know to me, i just, I love pinball moments. I love, i love the mini wizard modes or the unique experience with the game, something on the game that, that just stands out. And, and obviously, and then I want those moments. I want to be able to share those moments with friends and family or anybody else that step up to the game so that's why I like you know on a Godzilla that my nephew of eight years old can hit the building and see the building fall down you know like and he can experience that moment but yet there's stuff in a game like Godzilla that's way deeper that are fun enjoyable pinball moments for all three of us at all three of our different levels um

Speaker: What I will say with Evil Dead is this game is full of moments. um There are so many mechs in the game and they have different modes and different multiballs that all highlight different mechs. And so um I think my only complaint with the game right now is to see a lot or experience some of these mechs like the lower play field.

Speaker: um so Right now to get to the lower play field, there's only a few modes that get you there. And the process of starting a mode is you have to hit a ramp and then hit under a ramp, which is easy. But to select your mode,

Speaker: it's somewhat random. You have to hit a captain ball to scroll through your mode. So it's like for, for the average Joe, if my, whatever, my wife came down and I wanted her to experience the lower play field, we're kind of rolling the dice to see if we, if we're lucky enough that she happens to get that mode to experience the lower play field. So there's little stuff like that, that I, that I'm curious how the the game's going to progress. But as of right now,

Speaker: It seems like a very fleshed out game. All the modes are in the game. Um, and we had an absolute blast playing it, um, for two hours and and we're looking forward to playing it more. So if you have an evil dead on order, I think, I honestly think you're going to be, um, you're going to enjoy this game.

Speaker: You're going to enjoy the game. And I highly recommend anybody at TPF to play it very unique layout. Um, Tom, are you going to play It's great. We can get you away from the tournament room. Okay, cool. Just want to make sure you don't have to punch anybody to get to it or anything. That's all.

Speaker: If you're in line and I'm waiting too long, I might punch him. so But we'll just we'll just transition into TPF. I mean, that's essentially spooky. Spooky Pinball is going to be down there. They're going to have Evil Dead. they're I think they're bringing in 10 or 11 of them, so there's going to be a bunch.

Speaker: So try to hop on them. um What I will say, if you don't know what's going on ah to to start a mode, you want to you're going to hit a white shot and then you're going to hit under the right ramp. That's how you start your mode.

Speaker: Other than that, it it communicates pretty well. Communicates pretty well what you need to do and how to do it to play the game. So big thumbs up. Make sure you make time to play Evil Dead. um Let's transition to Stern. Stern Pinball, I'm assuming, will be mostly showing off Dungeons and Dragons.

Speaker: probably Metallica because Metallica. Um, yeah, I would, I would assume Metallica, Dungeons and Dragons, X-Men, uh, Jaws will probably be there. Wick.

Speaker: Um, there's going to be a bunch of games, but I would assume Dungeons and Dragons is going to be the main game. They're going to be highlighting or having people play. Um, There has been new code since I've played it last, ah but there's still most of the games there. There's still two final wizard modes that aren't in it and one dungeon mode that I know of. But um yeah, nothing nothing crazy to report. i mean, maybe you guys have played it more than I have in the last two, three weeks, but anything else to report? Any new findings? Any new thoughts on D&D?

Speaker: um Well, Tom, I haven't really heard your thoughts on D&D. I haven't played it that much, to be honest, just because I've i've been gone so much. Yeah. um But, yeah, I don't really have an opinion of it right now.

Speaker: um it it shoots fine, but I i need to ah get deeper into the game.

Speaker: Yeah. i I think that's fair. I know Travis has made plenty content Have you played it much yet, Tom? Like how many games do you have on it so far? Like literally I played like five or ten games. I streamed it one night and that's really all I had time for.

Speaker: yeah did you Did you stream it location or do you have one at your house? ah It's right behind him. I just saw he's got the cube. That blue cube right Yeah, your guy's screen is so small I can't see it.

Speaker: Oh, okay. Well, crap. what What are you doing talking to us? You should be playing pinball. I know. I've had other things going on, too. but Oh, he's a busy man.

Speaker: Were you at a tournament recently? I was at a tournament. I ran a tournament. Well, I helped run a tournament. It wasn't me, obviously. but The Whopper Chopper? is that which show Yeah, the Whopper Chopper was awesome.

Speaker: Tom puts in the work, Travis, put in the one I'm aware. Yeah. I go to TPF in a week. mean, there's, there's like no time for anything. Well, yes. Play dungeon dragon. I don't know who I'll be there. I assume Brian, Eddie, maybe Dwight. I think Elizabeth Gieski, all those people have, you know, obviously worked on the game. So, um, if they're there, say hi to them, pull them aside. Um, they'll, they'll be happy to talk to you about the game.

Speaker: Um, I'm looking forward to playing it. I'm at a point, I mean, I've had people ask, they're like, do you miss it? What are you what about this or that? um I really enjoyed my time with D&D. um I feel like being that i've I've played every part of the game right now, i don't I don't actively miss it because I don't feel like I'm missing any out on anything. But I'll tell you, once they release the next wizard mode or the chance to unlock another character,

Speaker: I very much so want to want to play the game and, and keep chipping away at it and and see how that game continues to flesh out. Um, but yeah, I, I, I really had a lot of fun with D and D. Um, but that, I mean, that's stern.

Speaker: That's, that's, that's stern. Um, and JJP, JJP, uh, I, unless they're going to announce something in the next three days or whatever, I don't think JJP is going to have anything new at, uh, at TPF. My assumption would be avatar.

Speaker: ah Um, it'll still be avatar. I know CEs are finally being delivered to the customers. So maybe they'll have a CE on location or, um, at the show. I don't really know. um But yeah, if you haven't experienced Avatar, hopefully TPF will be a a chance to experience that.

Speaker: um Looking ahead, though, i do think a new JGP game is around the corner. ah The rumor is Harry Potter. um And I think that's going to be big. Even if the game, it doesn't matter. you've i mean, Tom's joked around that he would have bought Rush if it had one pop bumper in the middle of the play field. But it's true. There are people... Harry Potter's going to it'll it'll sell.

Speaker: It's going to sell regardless of what the game is. So... it's going to be big um and where i'm i'm excited for jjp to see how that goes i mean once again that's a rumor though so if it's something else i mean yeah it'll be what it is i mean uh harry potter's a theme i really love but i definitely want to see what's in the game and yeah how it's coded i've been really disappointed with like last year's coding for games.

Speaker: I kind of wanted to talk about that. Of every, sure. Of all companies? Most games. Most games seem really behind on code. And, um I mean, where is it?

Speaker: So let's, okay. So if we're talking about last year's games, uh, so, so let's start with, uh, what John wick. Yep. Where's the code?

Speaker: Where's the code? ja mean a I mean, there's a game there. going But like, there's no wizard modes or anything. um You can tell some stuff on the play field isn't integrated. yeah It's just kind of weird. that's Obviously, X-Men, they rushed out.

Speaker: d and d is... Got a lot of stuff going for it, but there's been known crashes and things like that. But um yeah, I mean, the ah speaking as a consumer, it's not a good feeling when you buy these games and they seem like they're left for dead.

Speaker: or at least you have to wait a year or two for the code to develop. So... Yeah, it's definitely, it's it's a unique thing in pinball that I'm kind of seeing. And I think I've talked to you guys about this off podcast before, kind of what the general flow of this is through the lifespan of a game.

Speaker: And I haven't really heard anybody else really put into words because I don't know, unless you actually work in pinball and sell the games, you really don't realize what's happening.

Speaker: Like in the middle, at the beginning of a first run, in the middle of a first run, the end of it, the beginning of a second run, so on and so forth. But what I've noticed a lot, there is a lot of pushback there coming from people that want to see rules or call outs or just any type of software based feature a little bit further along than what it is out of box.

Speaker: um Now, I'm not going to pretend like I know all the answers because Joel and I talked about this last podcast. I have no idea what goes into coding a game or anything like that. But what I do see is is what people's reactions are that are spending the money to buy these games early on.

Speaker: And wanting to experience different parts of the game. And i I fully am in the group that you need your first 10 minutes just to be super tight. Like nothing but focusing on that because that's what everybody on location is going to experience.

Speaker: That's what a home user is obviously going to experience. Anybody that hits the start button, that's what they experience. Now, what I've noticed is If that first 10 minutes isn't tight, the people that play the games are like, if they're part of a message board, pin side on a Facebook group, whatever, they're going to voice their opinion and they're going to let you know.

Speaker: And that's strictly the pinball enthusiast. Now, here's what happens afterwards. If somebody brand new to pinball discovers that this game exists, they're going to use this little search engine called Google.

Speaker: And they're going to look up information on it. And when all they run into is Pinside and a full thread of people bashing the game or a full thread of, you know, on Facebook, they look it up and they see people, you know, talking about how, well, they're disappointed in this or they're wondering where this is or whatever.

Speaker: That's like, why would they want to go ahead and buy that game? Like, it makes it to where it makes it awfully difficult for a second run actually happen. Yeah, think... Yeah, and discovery to happen six to 12 months down the road. It makes it very difficult.

Speaker: You know, let' let's be honest. ah Consumers have a very, like, first impression. You know, like... Mm-hmm. When I go up and I play a game for the first time, i want to enjoy the experience. If I don't enjoy the experience, I tend not want to go back to the game.

Speaker: So if the games aren't, aren't, um, coded well, functioning well, uh, it's, it's, it's a turnoff.

Speaker: And,

Speaker: that's I mean, that's all valid. What you're saying is all valid. Cause I've seen the same same thing, like full transparency. I've seen the same thing with fun houses, fun houses get out there. They don't work correctly. Guess what? That's going to piss somebody off. They're going to tell everybody. I guarantee you, I could go on Penn side right now and probably find a thread of somebody pissed off about that game.

Speaker: I think Tom wrote it. Yeah, probably. I don't do it. We could go anywhere and find something that somebody's pissed off about, about some game. oh And that in it that doesn't mean at all that their opinion's invalid. But what Tom's saying is hitting the nail on the head.

Speaker: What really matters is how they're feeling emotionally about a game. And if you spend $7,000 to $13,000 on a game and you get it in and you're playing it, and yeah, you're enjoying it for the first 10, 20, 50 games, however long.

Speaker: But then when you keep playing it and you're kind of wondering, okay, what's next? Okay, what's next? Then you start talking with other people and you start getting other opinions. I mean, Human nature, a lot of us, we will listen to opinions and it will have a formulation on what we think about something like that will be our filter true to what we're going to see.

Speaker: So it's like anything else. The five people you surround yourself with or the five pieces of content creators that you usually consume. That's the filter that you're going to see a lot of things through, whether it's right or wrong.

Speaker: That's what you're going to see. So I really do believe that for all manufacturers, like, of course, build quality, that's number one. But number two is getting the code, like just really dialed in early on.

Speaker: Because if you get people praising your game that quickly and they're saying, oh, the code's great. Oh, yeah, this is excellent. Oh, this mode's really fun. They're going to post about that. They're going to be your biggest cheerleaders.

Speaker: And then new people that are looking up that game, that's all they're going to see. And they're going to feel good. about that. They're going to feel good about looking down that road for that purchase. And Tom, Tom is like saying everything right now. He's, he's preaching. This is exactly what is happening like down, down to the minute level. That's what's happening. yeah I will say, um, I understand I'm in a unique position because i I have, you know, these games are, I have a chance to play these games and just, yeah you know, I have no, uh, financial connected connection to them. So it's not like I have this like guilt of like, did I waste my money or anything?

Speaker: I just have the game, but I know a lot after that first two hour stream. And, um, and what I mean by that is, uh, you know if if If in a two-hour stream, I feel like I've experienced the game, like to me, that's not a game I want to own.

Speaker: like if i can If I can fully experience the game in two hours, like ah okay. Or like i want I want to leave that stream itching to play it more, to discover more.

Speaker: So you know mechanically, there's there's an aspect of that. like Like X-Men, I love the mechanical aspect of X-Men. I love the kinetic satisfaction of shooting that game. But I know within the first stream, like, Okay, all the modes are right there. You can pick whatever you want you want.

Speaker: So it's very easy to to play all the modes because they're all available. And then you beat two of them and you're in the future. And it's like, well, ah you know, check the box. Like, it's like I experienced.

Speaker: So you said, you know, Travis, it's important that that first 10 minutes is tight. My issue with X-Men is anybody can experience that first 10 minutes easily. But then there's, ah that's it. Like that's all they have. And then, but there's a difference between experience in it and is it tight enough to where it emotionally connects you to where you're like, you're like, true I want to, I want to do that again. Yeah. That's the difference. That's the replay. Like anything's going to have a 10 minute experience. We could go on any game.

Speaker: Sure. Have that. are we going to want to keep having that experience? And that's in pinball. I always talk to you guys about, you need these mini hooks, right? just like content creation.

Speaker: You need a hook to convince somebody that they want to plunge the ball. You need a hook to convince somebody that you want them to hit a certain shot. And you use that hook through call outs, through light, through just like a fun, like connection, right? Flippers to whatever shot flow you have.

Speaker: And that all that's like super important. I mean, human nature is we're going to go back to what feels good. We're going to go back to what makes sense. And that's why we all have games, right? And anybody listening to this could probably...

Speaker: could probably understand what we're about to say, that multiple people that have multiple games in their collection, there's always going to be one or two that you always go back to. Sure. Right? It's like old faithful. You're going to go back to it It's a good palate cleanser.

Speaker: That's a sign of a solid game for you. And that game could be anything. Like so for some people, it could be WIC. For some people, it could be X-Men. Some people, it could be Evil Dead. Some people, it could be Galactic Tank Force.

Speaker: I don't know. People have different you know different opinions, different ones. but That's, I think that's really the key. And like, when I think of pinball, I think of, okay, how can I make it to where somebody plays the game,

Speaker: And they enjoy it the way that we want them to enjoy it. Because the behavior we encourage, right, is behavior we're going to get out of somebody. Like that's what they're going to do.

Speaker: And so I'd rather encourage the behavior to to keep coming back, to want to play different modes, to want to do different stacks, to want to hear different sounds, to explore the game. i think Exactly. Yep. That's where you get your money's worth right there.

Speaker: I think you've explained that well because i'm now I'm thinking back on like, okay, um if i if I step up to a game of TPF that I've had, that I've streamed, it's like, what is it that I want to experience? Like, what is it that I'm missing?

Speaker: So if I, you know, which which modes in D&D do I want to play because I miss playing those modes or which dungeon or which multiball or same thing with X-Men. and And I think honestly right now there isn't ah an X-Men when I streamed it, there isn't any mode that stood out to me in a way that I like, oh I can't wait to play that mode again because of whatever.

Speaker: Um, um, and yeah, wick is similar. You know, I, I think I was so confused while playing wick. I liked the layout, uh, but it's just like, I really didn't know at the time the, the modes really weren't coded in a way that there was nothing, there was no information on the LCD to tell me what I was supposed to do.

Speaker: So it's the modes are forgettable because I never understood them. I never understood him. So I understand that that hopefully, you know, games like those can that can the the code can really get fleshed out. um Well, I think of some of my other games that I do miss where it's like, yeah, I can't wait to step up to play this, to experience that. And that's something that I know my brother, when we finished streaming.

Speaker: My brother, i would he's above a novice, but like he doesn't he doesn't really get he doesn't like dive into rules. um But he was locked in on Evil Dead. and And honestly, the reason I'm excited to play it more is because all these love all these modes have two phases. So it's like you can you can get pretty far into a mode and then you realize, oh, there's more there. like There's a whole other phase to experience.

Speaker: So some of these modes have already stood out to me and it's the beginning phase. like i I want to dive back in to experience... the the full mode. Now I fully trust the two you guys are good enough players.

Speaker: You could, you know, when you guys probably play this at TPF, you'll probably beat the whole mode. You'll beat every phase. But um yeah, you want that hook. You're you're saying, yeah, which which games have really hooked me? Pinball moment or modes or something of like, why am I pushing the start button again? Why do I want to play this again? And I think too, where people tend to kind of go sideways on it is they get so enamored with a mech, right?

Speaker: And a mech can be cool, It can be a central part of a pinball machine, but how does that gel with everything else that you're trying to achieve in that game? how What's the fusion of it with a light show, with a sound, with a rule? Otherwise, it's just...

Speaker: yeah a mech that just moves or catches the ball. But yeah, that looks cool. But we could also go see that at our local science museum doing something like that, right? You you have to add everything else into Yeah, it's got to make gotta make sense for the game.

Speaker: Yes. And the flow of the game and the story or whatever you want to call it. Yeah, you can't just... They arbitrarily put mechs in a game and think it's going to be great.

Speaker: it does It doesn't necessarily make a game great. Yeah. Well, it's only great, Tom. And you guys remember this because we were all novices once. It's only great to the people that are basically within their first six months of pinball or they're super brand new, never seen it before because it's the first time they've ever seen it. They're like, oh, this is really cool.

Speaker: But then when you start understanding what you like how you can control the flippers, there's different rules, there's different manufacturers, there's different layouts. Then that novelty tends to wear off a little bit.

Speaker: And then you look at the additional layers on top of it. And that's right kind of the key. like We could probably all... like there Let's do this because I want to include you two in on this. like What's the one game like in the past five years that you guys could think of that did have like a really cool mech to it.

Speaker: Like any game to where you're like, oh, that's really cool. That was super enjoyable. I want to keep doing that. Just any, anything, any manufacturer past five years. You said five years. um you could We could say ever if you want to.

Speaker: could say ever. Well, the two, and there's if I really thought about it, there's probably better answers. But I know just like playing Jaws, I really enjoy, um i really love the flip block mech.

Speaker: really And I love the upper play field, getting to the upper play field and trying to do it. like That's something that never got old. Um, and then the other one that actually popped in my head, which is probably because it's the only thing that I miss about the game, but toy story, the Duke kaboom ramp, the Duke kaboom ramp was such a fun mech.

Speaker: Um, In my mind. Oh, I'm thinking that's the other thing with Jaws. the the Having the moment where the fin pops up, you know, and having to hit that, that is an enjoyable moment that everybody that played that game liked. But the Duke of Boom ramp is the one mech.

Speaker: And I know it's nothing crazy, but it's like if I stepped up to Toy Story right now, that's the only thing that I miss. And that's the only thing I want to experience again. Like I want to hit that ramp. um Right. But but now what what about hitting that ramp?

Speaker: Because if we just put like a little jump ramp in the middle, like on a whitewood and say, yeah, i hit it. You're going to be like, okay. But like what else attached to that made you feel like, okay, like I want to keep doing this.

Speaker: Well, what else is there? not always there. And so yeah it's only for particular modes. You got to hit a particular shot and you get one shot at it. So if you miss it it's a it's a it's an experience you miss. It's like, crap, I got to I got to hit the shot. Oh, here's my chance. Here's my chance. Boom. And it's so there's buildup. Same thing with the fin on on jaws. Like that fin's not always up.

Speaker: It's not just a stand up target. It's moving. It's a moment. Take your shot. Try to hit it. Yeah. That right there is a prime example because you're emotionally invested to completing it.

Speaker: That's the key. The game can get you to do that through any way that the mech moves, through any sound that you have, through any reward that you have for doing it. That's like the key. That's the full package.

Speaker: Right. Tom, what's yours? i was I was just going to say the fin on Jaws. yeah Okay. And prime example here, besides just hitting the fin, Tom, like what else is associated with that?

Speaker: Like, what do you do in order to even bring the fin up? Well, you got to you'd start a multi ball or like complete your encounter jackpot. I mean, that that's like, once that comes up, like you play scars and you're hitting all the shots and all a sudden that fin pops up. You just want to nail it, you know?

Speaker: Yup. And there you go. And it pops up red. You know, you kind of see things change a little bit. The visual cues, the sound cues, you know, like when when the multi-ball progression starts, it's like, kill it, shoot it, now, now, you know, like that's an exciting moment in pinball right there.

Speaker: Yeah, exactly. And that's like truly like once you unlock this part in your brain and for the listeners out there, viewers, like think about that one mech like you really, really like and think about it outside the box. of It's not just because of what the mech is.

Speaker: It's the things that add on to it, the surrounding atmosphere. And that's really where you get the winners right there. Like that's what stands out so much more than everything else. And when the lights,

Speaker: the sound, the rules around that can be excellent, then that makes like the tight game, right? Yeah, absolutely. So when we look at, you know, we could take X-Men for instance, right? Like why is it not jiving with some people? Like why do people not like the X-Men hand or the Sentinel hand just like crashing down the ramp and the ball just like shooting down the middle or, you know, whatever. Like what about that?

Speaker: isn't appealing to people. Cause it, cause it's not rewarding when you hit a shot and and a ramp breaks and the ball goes down the drain, your ball ends. Yeah.

Speaker: It hurts you more than helps you. Yeah. nope Yeah. I know I've said that before. and but yeah, but yeah, that was, that it's just a frustrating thing. Like you, Oh, I made a shot. Oh, it just killed me.

Speaker: yeah And there you go. And that may not. Yeah. Right. And that could be prevented by not just allowing the mech just to do that. And that's it. It, there could be a whole mode tied into that, that you're actually battling the Sentinel, but you have a ball save on while that's happening. So you don't feel nearly as like honeydicked at the time that the ball's just shooting down the lane. There's ways that you can work around that. Very true. Very true.

Speaker: And yeah, that would make that would maybe make that Mac more appealing and fun. yeah Yeah, absolutely. absolutely because Because it's like, yeah, it could be a cool Mac. I'm i obviously battling a Sutinal.

Speaker: Yes, like honestly, Jack put that in for it to be cool. Like, right. That's why it's there. Now it just needs to be implemented. Like there's too much time in that game. If you play it, it feels like obviously it's not random. There is indications, but for 95% of the people, it's going to be random.

Speaker: Like they're not going to, they're not going to see the visual cue the audio cue. Don't see the light on the hand. Yeah, right. They won't know. Well, what, I mean, I do. I do like X-Men, but I think it's because of the shots. But I think somebody somebody made the comments of like, oh, cool. So shots or they either said shots or ramps are the new mech.

Speaker: And it's just a sure there's kinetic satisfaction when a when the ball is whipping around in a unique way. But I understand what you're saying that if the mechs in the game. aren't special. if If they don't make a moment, if they don't bring you in, if they don't, if it's just there, if it's just a bash toy, that's ah always there.

Speaker: You can bash it whenever you want. right. Prime example here, Joel. Oh, I'm ready. the The spinner on evil dead. What do you think about it? ah So the spinner on evil dead, it's right up the middle. You can hit it all day long.

Speaker: But the one reason I like it is because the audio cue is a chainsaw. So when you hit it, it's a like, it's it's it it it makes you smile. It makes you laugh there you go every time. There you Something so simplistic. Yeah.

Speaker: Right? You can really draw it out. AIQ does that also with the spinner on the left. The Hulk spinner where the gamma spins. Yep. That right there, yes. And that's like the whole package coming together. The gamma ray, when the gamma ray goes off. It's like, I gotta hit this thing.

Speaker: ah every Every team out there is capable of doing this. Every single team out there is capable of doing It's just a matter of taking what is usually in every pinball machine, right? Could be a pop bumper, could be a sling, could be something. Like, okay, D&D.

Speaker: Like, Elizabeth coming up with the stealth slings, like, that's something unique. A sling is on every single game, and now it's like, okay, I don't want to hit it because I want to, you know, not alert the guards, or I could be like Tom, and I want to punch the shit out of it, so i'm just going to hit the slings anyways, and I'm going to go for it. so That's a good point. She made a mech...

Speaker: She made that mode make a mech. You're right. The slings are in every game. it's So nobody's ever nobody ever considers that a mech to talk about or excited about. Right. That made it exciting. That made it exciting. That's a really good point. Iron Maiden did the same thing with the second Tomb Award.

Speaker: When the slings become worth like $250,000 or something like that. Super slings or something like that. Yeah. So now you're like, oh, I want to get Mummy Multiball or Trooper with this. And put two or three acts so I can keep something going.

Speaker: Yeah. That's what really meshes things together. It makes it feel really good to even just do the simple things. Like that's the key. I think that would be a fun activity to do is to sit down with, but you know, look at each individual pinball machine and let's break down, you know, every mech, you know, whether it's spinner, drop target, standup target, anything. And it's like, is that piece of hardware,

Speaker: at some point bringing like um a value or like bringing experience to this game. That's game theory. 101 game building. one oh one 101. Like every, I truly feel like if I was designing a game, which I'm not, I have no idea how to, I'm just telling you my mindset to it. Maybe you guys have same mindset. Maybe you have a different one.

Speaker: If I'm building a game, I want a reason for everything to exist in that. And I want to try to make it, it doesn't have to be the star of the show, but I want it to chain together with something else to where it makes total sense for it to be there.

Speaker: And it makes a player feel like, okay, it belongs. Instead of having a shot or ah certain piece of equipment or whatever that just is like, okay, why is this here? Why do I want to shoot this? i don't want, I want to avoid that. I just want to hit this instead.

Speaker: You know, it's like, there's going to be a hierarchy of priority anyway yeah yeah of everything, but you still want it to piece together. And that's just proof right there. Like some people have figured out how to make slings fun. Some people have figured out how to make pop bumpers fun, like Godzilla, the saucer.

Speaker: yeah that you you hit that pop bumper. It starts a fricking multiball. you know ah Rick and Morty figured it out like on ah the spooky game. right That was interesting. TNA has pop bumper. the like t t a has one pop bumper But the fact that it it the the light show goes nuts and the shaker motor goes off every time you hit it, it it makes it ah it's that mini moment of just, like and scars yeah it It scares you.

Speaker: Think about that. We're talking about a game with a pop bumper making a standout moment. A pop bumper. We figured out slings, spinners, pop bumpers.

Speaker: There you go. You can do That's good point. Yeah, those necks are there. yep Um, yeah, that's a, thank you for coming to my Ted talk. Yeah. That's a good Ted talk. So sorry, everybody. I started that, but no, Tom was right. Actually, Travis and Joel made me feel better. so No, i think Tom, I think you hit the nail on the head. There's a lot of people feeling that way and rightfully so.

Speaker: And i I mean, it's like anything else. I think everybody in the pinball industry wishes that they could bring out a game that's like 100% polished, 100% done. Well, and I understand that, you know, the games aren't going to come out 100%, mean, seems like but it i mean it just seems like like some of these games are just forgotten.

Speaker: Yeah. You're just saying you want you want the meat medium rare when it comes out. You don't want it rare. Yeah. That's all you're saying. yeah I, I, it's, I understand that stuff, especially, you know, with like Stern, they're still on three cornerstones a year. Rumor is they're going to throw in a remake as well. I mean, they're trying to put out a lot of product.

Speaker: And, um and I actually had that thought. I'm not, I'm not just here to talk up evil dead, but it's like, there's a difference when, you have a company like Spooky or a company like Barrels of Fun where the entire company is focused on one project for a year and a half. And I understand Stern has design teams. So that design team has one project for 15 months, maybe, you know, a year and a half.

Speaker: But there's just something about when it's like when an entire company can put everything they have into one and focus in on one game. That's why I was super impressed when Labyrinth came out. The game was essentially complete. But yet the team was actively participating in streams and adapting and adjusting the code based off of how they're seeing people play.

Speaker: And then I'm seeing that with Evil Dead. Like, Evil Dead, sure, I don't think the final wizard mode's in the game, but, like, it's it feels like a very fleshed-out game. And I know Bug and Luke and others are actively watching the game and reacting and tweaking.

Speaker: so you don't have to release... I'm excited to play Evil Dead. I want to check it out, for sure. You did use the right phrase, though, and that's the key. A game can be completely unfinished as long as it feels like there's something there. And when you feel like there's something there...

Speaker: then the game's on the right path. It's when a player doesn't feel that something is there. Because if you don't feel like it's there, you're going to tell everybody about it. If you feel like something's there, you're going to tell everybody about that too. And it kind of gives coverage you know for the future updates and future tweaking and all that. yeah Well, we need to keep moving. I know.

Speaker: Let's keep moving. We killed a lot of time. We killed a lot of time doing all of our tech issues. um what i was gonna one One of the big reveals, and and I don't have 100% confirmation on this, but there's a very good chance that Multimorphic multimorphic will have their next game at TPF.

Speaker: Which is rumored to be Portal, correct? That's the rumor. The rumor is Portal. um They have announced that Brad Albright is the artist. They've announced that.

Speaker: And then they also announced, I think it's even Ian Heroin. heroin heroin I have hard time pronouncing it. um Ian, I'm trying. Sorry, bud.

Speaker: He's either the game designer or the program. He's highly involved. So they' they've already announced. So these are two new additions. Brad Albright, his art is fantastic. um So new additions to the game. They have not announced what it is.

Speaker: um I do know Loser Kid. Loser Kid's been doing a lot with um with ah Multimorphic in the last few weeks. Feel free to check out their content if you're curious about it. So I would assume, you know, watch them. i will assume they'll be involved in the reveal in some way.

Speaker: um But yeah, I mean, that's we're talking. I mean, I'm going to be at TPF exactly a week from now. So sometime in the next few days, that will be announced. So we really don't have much to say. Otherwise, play it. If you've never played P3 system, it's it's a unique experience all around.

Speaker: I do think every game that they've released is getting like the it's only getting better, in my opinion, or they've improved upon it. um With all that said, the system is 10 years old at this point. So i'm i just I'm curious how far they're going to push it, if there's another iteration of the system coming. I don't know. There are questions there. but I think the only way to go from right now, if you're not doing a new system and you're keeping with that you know that older system or just the P3 system in general...

Speaker: I think it's figuring out a way to get the, the mechs, the play field or anything, anything to do with the module in front of the scoops a little bit more, yeah like so what which goes against like what they really, what their bread and butter is, which is that interactive LCD screen or whatever you call it, the screen in the middle.

Speaker: Right. But I feel like, okay. Yeah. I feel like you got to get some mechs in front of the scoops there. Like you got to get some shot paths going on that has to go beyond just the screen interacting with the ball.

Speaker: Yeah. Like that's, that's kind of what I'm hoping to see with this next one. Like, i I feel like we're going down that path, right? We can't always stick to the upper one third of the play field. I think yeah there's gotta be a way to put something there to where it does come.

Speaker: in front of there. Like I think heist kind of did that. Well, the crane. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a permanent mech. It's not like a mech that resides on top. No, no. i'm talking about something that's modular. Like if they could somehow figure that out, I think that that would be a unique enough value prop that would make a game stand out a little bit more.

Speaker: We will, uh, we'll definitely have to report back on that. That'll be, that's, that's the one that I can think of. That's the one new game. I'm really confident we'll be there. Um,

Speaker: Barrels of Fun. You don't think Barrels have game there? don't know. Barrels of Fun is being tricky. They're sending stuff out people. Barrels of Fun is being tricky. They are Texas-based. What I'm saying they're being tricky is if you go to the TPS website, tricky you can see the game list.

Speaker: And right now, the game list for Barrels of Fun is question marks. So I think yeah it's very i think it's highly probable that Barrels of Fun's next game will be there. Somebody told me the the rumor is Dune.

Speaker: Or something else. There were two things they said. I've heard Dune and Goonies. Dune and Goonies. The rumored titles. I have no comment. but I have no idea.

Speaker: those are the rumors I heard. I personally fan of Dune. Let the rumors fly. But we will see. yeah We will see what happens. Either way, i was I've been... March 21st, Joel. They're doing a seminar at 7 to 8. So why would you be doing something on Labyrinth that's been around already for a year and half? So let's lock it in then.

Speaker: I'm just saying. like yeah baby but I don't know for sure, but yeah, I'm just saying. There's question marks. as all that but yeah that. The Dune the dune and Goonie stuff, that's interesting. that's I don't know. I genuinely don't know.

Speaker: I just know personally, I was thoroughly impressed with Labyrinth ah when we streamed it and had it here and the game came out the gate, very fleshed out, well done. um And i know i know it's David Vaness and the rest of that company. I mean, they I was really impressed with Labyrinth all around. So i whatever the next release is, i i I think we're going to be in for a good time.

Speaker: Let me ask you this so I don't give away anything. What's going to be your reaction if it's not Dune or not Goonies? Like, would you be happy about that? would you be like... Depends on what the theme is. I'm interested.

Speaker: I'm just wondering, are you guys all in that it has to be Goonies or it has to be Dune? No, because those themes really don't do anything for me. Like, my my son would go crazy if it was Dune.

Speaker: um But... Okay. Like, I... Yeah, I... To me, those those themes just don't hit home with me, so... If it was Rush?

Speaker: No, just kidding. We're going to redo Rush. You need another Rush game. Dune, for me, I loved the movies. So it's like if they had movie aspects, but really they have to have the sound. They have to have the sound.

Speaker: ah remember Joel. remember. So that to me, it's like if it was Dune, there's so many, well, they need this, this and this. And if they don't have those, then yes, I would be let down. um But if it's not Dune, that's fine. i my I came away from labyrinth as a Labyrinth as a theme is not a theme that I love or or particularly care for.

Speaker: But I loved everything else about the game. I thought the game itself was really fun. My brother talks about Labyrinth all the time, wishes we had the game. um So I've just always been excited for whatever Barrel is of Fun's next game is.

Speaker: The first one was so good, i have confidence the second one's going to be a blast. So I'm very open-ended on i don't really whatever the theme is, I'm excited. I'm excited to what it is. So that's um that's essentially the only two...

Speaker: that we are really aware of that will be presenting and a new game. Or we don't know for sure, Barrels of Fun, possibly just based on looking at the website. Speculation.

Speaker: Right, Multimorphic, we're just guessing because they usually do that every TPF. Like last year was Princess Bride, so yeah. So we've... yeah It's a lot different than a couple of years ago. You guys remember the insanity of like, what was 2023? like Foo, Pulp, Godfather.

Speaker: I think it was Godfather, Pulp Fiction, Foo Fighters. Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo. We've said JJP. We're not expecting anything new. Stern is going to be a lot of D&D. Spooky, we've talked about. Evil Dead.

Speaker: multi-morphic should have something barrels of fun should probably have something american pinball at this point i don't i don't think they're going to show anything new i don't even know where they're at as a company i don't even know if they're going to have a booth i don't know what's going on uh you don't realize what they're doing right now american pinball they they changed into i think like a manufacturer now like uh they're making a contract manufacturer yeah Oh, CGC. CGC has announced on their website, it shows on their website, it says Cactus Canyon with Saloon Mech.

Speaker: So this is the ru this has been the rumored slash somewhat shown ah new addition to Cactus Canyon Remake. which is behind me that um they're adding saloon doors in front of BART and there's like one or two other little things. um So if that's the case, hopefully the the the goal of having them at TPF is to have people play the heck out of them for three days.

Speaker: And if the mechs survive and look good through all that testing, hopefully they're at a point to actually start selling these upgrade kits with the Lyman 2.0, the Josh Sharp 2.0. Does that include the code with it? Is that what they're going with?

Speaker: Because if they are going to add a mech, there's nothing in the current code that would recognize the mech. That is wild that a new mech is getting added on. because it's That game came out November of 2021. Yeah.

Speaker: It's been a little while. hi November 2021 and we're in 2025. So I know the big rumors with CGC are obviously we're waiting on that kit. They're actually pumping, they're, they're building Pulp Fiction's, uh, the, the,

Speaker: the l LE version, the higher version is people are already getting those. I'm assuming they'll have Pulp Fictions there. People are waiting for, for them to officially announce the, um, the medieval madness remakes like, Hey, put in your money now. We're ready to sell them.

Speaker: I don't, I don't think we're going to see that at TPF. Maybe I'm wrong. Um, What other companies are I missing? Turner Pinball will be there. Turner Pinball is ah is making stuff. They're shipping games, so I'm assuming people will have another chance to play ah Ninja Eclipse, which is fun.

Speaker: um I'm going to offend somebody because I'm forgetting them. I know... Well, Dutch. Is Dutch or Pinball Brothers going to be there?

Speaker: And if so, what would they i'm not they have I'm not seeing a Dutch or a pinball brothers on there because dutch has wrapped up big lebowski and i think it's and they have moved on to um alice so maybe there'll be an alice there maybe i don't know um you think that uh The other smaller Alice pen, like the little the little mini one's going to be there. The Kickstarter one. Yeah, yeah. The one with the mini ball. I don't think they're, I don't know. The pop bumpers that make the air balls go and all that. You don't think so?

Speaker: Kudos to them for finishing that Kickstarter, though. yeah they Yeah. They raised like 500,000. There's a lot of people that want mini pinball. Well, hopefully it all gets fulfilled. um Well, it's customer funded. So, you know, or consumer funded. So why not? That's always worked in pinball.

Speaker: I don't know. I don't know. I feel like I'm missing somebody. So if I'm missing somebody, I'm sorry. Who do you think you're missing? I don't know. It's always the, the you know, I've kind of rolled to the big ones. On the exhibitor list, American Pinball is on there.

Speaker: But on the actual seminars and all that, I'm not seeing them. But I do see that Stephen Bowden is going to be doing an X-Men rules seminar with Mike Vinicor. So he's like presenting a Stern game.

Speaker: So I don't know this exhibitor list is updated if American Pinball is actually going to there. don't American has any employees that would present at this point. I'm not sure. don't know. Maybe we'll get surprised and it'll be a new pinball company that just reveals. You've already said Chicago Gaming. I'll go through it for you. You said Chicago Gaming.

Speaker: Jersey Jack. They're going to be there. ah Multimorphic. Yeah.

Speaker: Ramps, ramps, pinball that' air one with road roadship I have not played that, so that'll be new for you. Well, I'm going to make sure you play it, Joel. You're going experience all the ramp fun. um Spooky, of course, we said Stern. Yep.

Speaker: and i Turner. I mean, that's that's everybody. That's everybody on the list. So really, it's... I mean, me personally, I'm excited to play the two new games. The two, which hopefully is Barrels of Fun and hopefully Multimorphic.

Speaker: um Otherwise, there's there's going to be an opportunity to play a lot of other stuff. And then looking ahead, I mean, we talked about last time, like looking ahead... Rumored Harry Potter. ah Stern's going to be rolling off, you know, rolling out with another game probably in the next two months.

Speaker: um ah Yeah. We're just going have to wait and see. There's a lot. What do you think? What would you want to release first? If you're a Jersey Jack, do you want to release Harry Potter before the Stern Cornerstone? Or do you want to wait till after an Elwynn game releases?

Speaker: I would. I think any I would release before. i think. Yeah, I would. I would release before all day long, especially if you have Harry Potter. You're going to get a lot of sales just off the name alone. But um sure, there will be people that will be holding their money to wait for both releases and then try to pick which one they want to commit to.

Speaker: But yeah um I just think i think you're going lose. Elwynn is Elwynn. I think for people, there's going lot of people that pull the trigger on Elwynn and then they're not going to have the money for TGP. It's kind weird I truly wonder if if somebody announced their game before the next stern, like whether or not the pinball enthusiast crowd would be kind of frozen up just to wait anyway. So maybe that leads to like other people wanting just to wait out stern, you know, it could be like a game of cat and mouse. Like, can you imagine that standoff? Like everybody's like, are you going to announce first? Are you going to wait? Like, how's this going to, how's this going to go?

Speaker: it's a good, it's a great point. I don't know. Uh, luckily though, We have two big hitters. Like if it's Harry Potter, Harry Potter is going to be big regardless of what the game is. And then Elwyn, Elwyn is Elwyn. Elwyn, it's going to be big.

Speaker: So it's like, luckily i would feel a lot worse if it was, you know, Harry Potter versus some new designer at Stern that's never released anything. You know, yeah, good luck. you know If you're Stern, you're rooting for Jersey Jack to hit it out of the park.

Speaker: Like you want Harry Potter to be great. And the reason why is because that will just draw new people into pinball. And Stern has the biggest active catalog there is. So why would you why would they not want that? once you get one.

Speaker: Oh, yeah. That is something I've been seeing that more and more. Obviously, Travis, you know that. Well, you guys both. You guys have have been in the hobby a long time that your your friend group and and um people you hang out with, you've seen their collections go from like, what's pinball? It's all of a sudden they have 10. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: But even in in my local friend group, it's like um ah there was a guy that, yeah, I think i think he got a golden T. And then now he's like three pins in. you know It's just like every everything after that, I keep hearing his name more and more of, oh, he's and he's interested in that. It's like, dang, he's really is he's all in. People go down the rabbit hole. My last ah shill for Evil Dead is... um Now that my friend group knows that I have this game, I had um a husband and wife come over. um Derek and Jenny came over yesterday during the day. And then my other buddy, Chris, came over during the day to play this.

Speaker: And all three of them left like, I need a, we're going to have to buy this. have friends that visit you in the middle of the day on a weekday? yeah i work from home he works from home i work from home do you guys just like all get in your golf carts and just drive each other's house is that what it is this is like this golf cart private chat one's a doctor and he has so he does weird hours and then uh there we go there we go tom yeah he just happens to have like his shift he always has one of the weekdays yeah nobody came over there was nobody came over does he have spinners on his golf cart

Speaker: No. no Does he have like boom box or like sound system? LEDs on the golf cart? Yeah, i do like underneath lights, like Fast and Furious golf carts. but what i was Bullshit, Joel. You sent me pictures of your golf cart the other day. I have a golf cart, yeah. and we Putts around the neighborhood all the time. Me and the dog. It's great.

Speaker: um No, I was just saying, I was really impressed with their, uh, their, um, yeah, their initial, uh, their initial impressions were, they, they were blown away by it, but, um,

Speaker: All right. I think that's it. ah TPF, besides that, eat eat barbecue. Eat barbecue. Talk to everybody there. Everybody that there is passionate and loves pinball. um So say hi to... Say hi. Make some friends. And if you see any of us or any of the other content creators you like, feel free to say hi. There are people from the industry there.

Speaker: you know There's a chance that if you're standing line playing a game... One of the employees may have been the designer of that game that's standing right next to you. So, you know, be social, engage with others, and you're probably going to make some friends and and meet some really, really cool people.

Speaker: um But yeah, i love TPF. It's going to be nice. It'll be warm. um Should be a really good time. So I'm looking forward to that. um besides that, we can probably start wrapping it up. Uh, was there anything else you guys wanted to talk about or mention? um We could give a quick shout out to, uh, Raymond Davidson for winning pen masters this past weekend. And then what else happened here? Zoller won the whole thing. Zoller won nationals. Yeah. Jason Zoller.

Speaker: yep and then yeah i'm seventh place um oh yeah tom won seven place that tuesday what is a flipper frenzy so congrats you know yeah big that was awesome tom he's got the plaque to prove it it was awesome no pen masters was a lot of fun to watch though if you guys haven't watched it yet like and you're in the tournament pinball go back and i think it's i guess it's still on twitch with backhand pinball tom is that who it's with Yes. I think.

Speaker: Backhand Pitbull. Yeah. So go check that out. Excellent job. Yeah. no Well, especially Saturday night. The Saturday night stream was awesome because it was you, Tom and Bowden on commentary and Ron Hale, a junior too.

Speaker: Well, he showed up eventually, yes. i think it was just you two for the portion I listened to. And that was by far one of the most entertaining slash informative like commentary boosts I've heard. Because it made like Colin's game on Sea Witch that much more fun.

Speaker: like just what was happening and everything. So it's like, yeah, I fully believe that was like a clinic in showing commentary that's digestible for people. Because, i mean, I've told you this before, Tom, and Joel, if you watch, I don't know, Joel, if you watch tournament streams or not, but he does it just, it drives me.

Speaker: it It just, ah Like we're, we're all like amateurs when it comes to that, but it drives me up a wall when a player like just does nothing but talk about themselves or a commentator does nothing but talk about themselves or they critique everything or just like nonstop or they're using derogatory words towards them. I'm just like, I get it. You want to give some critiques, but there's just a tactful way to do it.

Speaker: Right. It makes it fun and engaging. Right. and not like just cringe inducing and tom like you guys you guys nailed it there's there's plenty of teams out there that that do it but i just want to definitely commend you like how that went you guys had a good flow and what was happening that was a lot of fun this is that steve's awesome at you know commentary ah and i i just i just fill in you know it he makes it easy let's put it that way you both i was having genuinely that was right that's what i mean you both genuinely like felt like you guys were having fun like that was the difference we're having fun and you know it

Speaker: commentating on, on, on the action. And it's just, yeah, it's easy. It's easy. Awesome. You just gotta love it. Yeah. And Joel's done it before. Joel did it. Joel does it. Yeah. I love it. Hopefully I'll have a chance to do it. Oh, or at tpf are we supposed to do it at TPF Joel?

Speaker: I think Jamie had reached out to me and he said he wants to get on schedule. So ah final four. reach out to me. Because he knows you're going to be in finals, Tom. He knows you're going be in finals. That's why. Right.

Speaker: All right. we'll have We'll have to do one round, Joel. I think we can do it. Oh, yeah. It'll be fun. It'll be fun. You can teach me how to Redline Mania again. I feel horrible for the group because we're going to break everything I just said I don't like about commentary. So that's what it is. If they have a tellustrator, that's all I need. the Yeah.

Speaker: i think just love it I think just as long i can handle commentary as long as I know that the people are having fun and they're genuine about it. Like whether they're busting balls or something like that. Like that's what Levy like Levy cracks me up.

Speaker: very calm I know he's not everybody's cup of tea. and you know he's like totally over the top with everything, but it's kind of like just seeing that character play over the top that everything is just the most crucial thing.

Speaker: game nine of if but thing it could just be ah like some podunk tournament that's what like stuff like that if somebody's excited and they're genuine about it like that's like i'm able to digest what's happening there yeah absolutely no it'll be fun um well yeah let's go and wrap it up uh friendly reminder for the people that skipped the very beginning of the show We are no longer going to be part of the pinball network.

Speaker: ah So please, on your podcatcher, whatever it is, search Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. You will see there is a separate show. Please follow and subscribe to that show. Same with YouTube. I will put the link in the description.

Speaker: If you're watching this on the Pinball Network channel, we have created our own YouTube channel. please migrate over there, like, subscribe, all the things. um So hopefully we just don't want to lose anybody. This, this might be the last episode on, on the pinball network. We may have one more as another friendly reminder, but yes, we don't want to miss or accidentally miss anybody.

Speaker: um So that, yeah, we have full intentions of making plenty more content, 60 episodes in looking forward to having many, many more. um Yeah. But let's plug it up. Travis plug away, man.

Speaker: Yeah, you guys can find me right here on the Triple Drain Pinball Podcast and now over on the YouTube Triple Drain and also on my work, the Pinball Company YouTube, where we do like tutorials and all that. And you can also find me in the gym doing calf raises.

Speaker: Perfect. Tom, go for it. I will be here on Triple Drain and Fox City's Pinball. So we got a lot of tournament streaming coming up over the next couple of months. so eight it's going to be exciting.

Speaker: That's awesome. And yes, and I'm Joel. um You will find me on the Flippin' Out YouTube channel. My brother and I stream every Wednesday night from 10 to midnight. um Come check that out or watch any of the past streams or tutorial videos that we've been doing.

Speaker: But yeah, and then as well as here, Triple Drain. Oh, hey, sign up sign up for Papa 22 in case we don't get to an episode out. I think it's April 5th.

Speaker: Oh, we'll get one out. yeah yeah sure we okay normally normally we do a tpf follow-up we usually are pretty good at getting a tpf follow-up in i for the record i'm trying to get you two bozos to record a podcast while we're down there even if it's just for 20 minutes that's true we'll do that yeah we'll see maybe we'll do that but hey try to figure it out um yeah appreciate all the listeners thanks for everybody that uh that has yeah supported this show so far and uh whether it's just clicking on the video, listening, or ah we have a patron. Thanks for all that. Anything.

Speaker: Yeah. We really appreciate you guys. And hopefully we have a chance to meet you guys in person at TPF. So um like always, Tom, you get the last words. Be excellent to each other.