Transcript
Speaker: and got a my place. Oh, wow. Is your neighborhood getting bad? Oh, let me guess. Stolen packages?
Speaker: so i finally broke down and i got a video doorbell from my place oh wow ah is your neighborhood getting bad of let me guess stolen packages Well, I will say all those vintage figurines I've been collecting are expensive. You've heard of Precious Moments, Hummel, Yadro. Anyways, that but besides the point, no, i've I've got a cute new neighbor and I want to try to check my mail when he's out there.
Speaker: Don't think I'm going to let you have that Precious Moments thing go, but isn't that kind of an invasion of privacy? Don't be such a prude. Anyways, something spooky happened.
Speaker: Last night, 3 I got an alert that said person detected, but nobody was there. Oh, did did you ever think it maybe could be a ghost? I mean, those cameras are getting better and better these days.
Speaker: Well, needless to say, I needed more proof, so I took some liberties in my surveillance. what What do you mean? I bought four more cameras, all pointed directly at the other cameras. That way the surveillance is surveying each other.
Speaker: Smart, huh? Now this way I won't miss a thing. Well, wouldn't that just be a view of the camera watching the camera? And and who's watching those ones? I hadn't thought that far ahead.
Speaker: It's episode 168, Surveillance is Terrifying. I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom.
Speaker: I'm Marjorie Greene, and I approve this message to save America, stop socialism, and stop China. Faith of high reality, from life to death to rise!
Speaker: Horror in real life. Doubters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. Horror in the movies.
Speaker: Where are you going to go? Where are going to run? Where are going to hide? Nowhere.
Speaker: I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. Sometimes. you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning sometimes
Speaker: Six former Savannah Police Department employees, including four officers, are now under criminal investigation after being fired for allegedly misusing these controversial surveillance cameras made by the company Flock.
Speaker: Totally honest. I'm disappointed. I'm pissed off it. The employees allegedly using the system to make personal searches involving family and acquaintances. The high-tech AI-powered cameras read license plates and store that data for police departments to use. Over 120,000 deployed nationwide to help fight crime. They're on streetlights, bridges, and highways.
Speaker: But backlash is growing amid rising reports of misuse. Dozens of officers now charged or accused of using the technology inappropriately, including stalking.
Speaker: Welcome to Fry Gay, the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Maddie. And I'm Andrew. And if this is your first time with us on Frygate the 13th Horror Podcast, welcome back to the podcast that talks about... ah Wait, no. If it's your first time, I couldn't welcome you back, could I? If it's if it's your first time with us, then you found yourself.
Speaker: at the podcast that talks all about horror in real life and in the movies from an LGBT plus perspective. And folks, we are back with a new episode, ah episode 168, all about surveillance. We are back after a little hiatus. Folks, we always take a little hiatus in the summer just to give ourselves a little break. A little bit of an extended hiatus this time. Andrew, you want to tell us why?
Speaker: Oh, are you blaming this on me? No. No, no it's no blame, but tell tell the people. Come on. ah no um So, first firstly, we ah we kind of always ah take a break in August to let Matty celebrate his birthday, which is important. We should always celebrate every year that we're alive and well.
Speaker: um But this year, we had to take a little bit of an extended, which I think was only about a week or two. So, not so bad. It's not that much of an extension, to be with ah Because ah I had a little bit of a medical emergency. i had to have emergency knee surgery. Nothing nothing crazy. Just had to have it ah all opened up and worked on. It was not a knee replacement or anything. So don't worry about me. I'm on the mend. I'm on the move. I'm off of crutches. So everything is all good. But yeah, I was in the hospital for about six nights, which was awesome.
Speaker: Awful. Never been in the hospital before. Never been put under before. Never been in an eight ambulance before. So it checked off a lot of those those boxes. That's crazy. um But ah yeah, i I don't want to go into too much detail, but it was just a little bit of a fluke. It came out of nowhere. um And it locked me in a...
Speaker: You know, you know, what I will tell you about the experience, Maddie, is that if you ever want to feel young again, check yourself into an orthopedic hospital where the average age is 78. Wow. Because then every all the nurses and doctors look at you and they go, you've got a lot of life to live. Don't worry. ah You'll be fine. You'll be totally fine. Well, Andrew, we are. I i was ah tragically a horrible patient. I wanted out the the first day I was there. um And why does that make you a horrible patient?
Speaker: ah Because I think like a lot of patients will just like succumb and be like, whenever you want me out, when I'm out, I was like, when am I being released? When am I being released? is Are we leaving? What's happening? What's going on? I don't think that makes you a horrible patient. I think that makes you just ah somebody who wants to get out and live. You're not horrible.
Speaker: Yeah, it was just ah definitely a weird experience um because I don't know when the last time you were like inpatient, um but they they never let you rest.
Speaker: like yeah it's supposed to It's supposed to be a place of rest, but they never let you rest. like It is constant. We got to do a blood draw now. we got to put antibiotics now. we got to do all this now. we got to do this now. We got to do this now.
Speaker: And ah not to go into too much detail, but the medicine that they were giving me for my condition, it sent my blood pressure up really high. So I was in the hospital for longer than what I needed to be until they figured out that situation. And I will never i will never tell you the most frustrating thing and in a hospital is when they tell you your blood pressure is high and you just go,
Speaker: okay, like what, what do you want me to, and like you can't, you can't control it. Like, it's not something you'd okay, I'll breathe really, I'll breathe really deep and everything will go down and everything be fine. Let me just dial that down for you real quick. No problem.
Speaker: So a little bit of a crazy end of my summer, but I'm up in hobbling. i wouldn't say I'm walking, but I'm hobbling. um And I got my first taste of of narcotics, which is weird. I've never taken medicine like that. so Oh, yeah. Interesting end of the summer. And he's ready for more. He needs more. Hurry. Get it to him. I did a text while I was in the hospital. I was like, well, this this like oxycodone is no no shit. And the friend that I texted, and they go, are we going to check you into rehab program after this? And I was like, no.
Speaker: But... um how was How was your birthday? On on on much lighter things and much much brighter and lighter things, how was your birthday? Oh, my birthday was good. It was, um you know, that this year, um you know it's it's been interesting being being over here for, I've been over here five years now. And, you know, Andrew will know that in my Chicago era of my life, I i threw a birthday party every single year. it's just what I did.
Speaker: um And i am it was always fun. You know, my birthday is at the end, like near the end of the summer. It's usually pretty good weather, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, you've got an end of the summer, yeah like festivity time. Yeah, it was like, and and usually pretty good weather so we could like be outside and do stuff. And it was just it was its it was always a fun time. I hope people always had fun at those. But over here, like i don't know. Like I just, when you don't have your whole old crew kind of thing, like I just kind of stopped doing that. And this year I was like, you know what?
Speaker: i I kind of want something again. So I actually i got a bunch of people together this time. And that was nice. And I i rented out this this pizza place by me called Rascals. And just rented out in an area and had a bunch of people come in. It was sort of like the the people here that are from different parts of my life, whether they're immigrants that are also from Chicago or from um you know this thing that I do or from work or from that or from that or from that.
Speaker: it was nice it kind of felt like old times and and i appreciated that so it was fun um was quite hungover the next day um and had to go to a concert which was interesting um but you know hangovers when you're older they just get worse and worse you just keep learning that so you tend to take on fewer and fewer when you have that choice which is ah a good thing for me i'd say but yeah it was a nice time it was good Good. I'm glad. now And now I'm 44, Andrew. Yay. Yay. Yay. feels very old. I'm not going to lie, although I know. Just like you being in that orthopedic place. Like, we're not old. Like, when yeah when you when you when you relativize it.
Speaker: But damn, does it feel like you are. jee Yeah, I think that we have to always remember we're the youngest we're ever going to be. You know what? That's true point there, Andrew. And, you know, and listen, um I'll tell you what, this podcast is the youngest it's ever going to be You know what I mean? um After however many years I've been doing this, we're on episode 168 now, Andrew. Yeah.
Speaker: andrew And you had the idea for this episode, this topic. and I think it's a great one because it fits in so well with everything that is going on right now.
Speaker: Right. yeah Literally, my story comes from this past Wednesday. There you go. That's how crazy it is. Yeah. And so, you know, look, this the the theme today is surveillance. Surveillance is terrifying. And, you know, look, we are recording this on September 13th. It is two days after the 25th anniversary of 9-11.
Speaker: And, you know, look, if you really think, of course, surveillance has always been a part of what governments do and everything else. But You know, 9-11 gave the United States the permission that the yeah, the the permission that it needed to truly turn itself into a whole different kind of surveillance state with the Patriot Act.
Speaker: and how the Patriot Act just kept expanding and expanding and expanding. And I think that, you know, a lot of the reasons why, you know, we're facing the things that we face today with like, you know, I know that you're going to talk about them, but like, you know, police departments and and other agencies using flock cameras to surveil you in so many different ways or surveilling, you know, your phone calls or surveilling what you do on the internet or your text messages or your WhatsApp messages or, you know, whatever the fuck.
Speaker: so much of that started because of the Patriot Act in America. um And, you know, look where we are now. And ai is just making it all ah making it all that much easier.
Speaker: Well, it's making it wildly unpredictable. is that and you know Yeah, and that too. I guess by easier, what I mean is like it's just it's easier for them to just do it. ah to draw conclusion that and may or may not be true. Exactly. To to derive things from from the data that that they are processing. And, you know, look, I know you're going to talk about it, but the flock cameras are getting shit wrong all over the place. And, you know, it makes you wonder when they're going to get something so wrong that somebody ends up dead.
Speaker: um So it's it's pretty crazy stuff. And ah you know one thing that I was thinking about when it when it comes to the subject ah beyond flock cameras is ring cameras.
Speaker: And you know do you you guys, do you you don't have a ring camera, do you? We do actually. do you? It was a reaction to ah the first year we moved into this building. ah There was somebody that broke into our neighbor's place, which we share porch with.
Speaker: we share a porch with So it very easily could have been us, but an unfortunately, and and nothing nothing bad happened. I mean, it was just a ah misguided, like, i want I don't want to say like teen because he was like 20, but like that age of misguided person who didn't know what to do. He had just gotten out of the foster system and was trying to figure it all out. um But,
Speaker: it It was a reaction to that. and Now I kind of realize that. And I almost took it down the other day because i was like, we've never had anything on this apart from us walking by it like a million times.
Speaker: um I don't know. It's it's this weird like paranoia state that the United States puts you puts you in. And i don't I can't say this for anywhere else because I've never lived anywhere else, but the with The way that the US and the way that the 24-hour news cycle and the way that everything makes you so paranoid is that as soon as one thing happens, it catapults you into this like ah into this like um this person that's like, oh my God, what if it happened to me? Paranoia. And then all of a sudden, I have a baseball bat next to my bed. And and you know what i mean? like it's's It's kind of crazy. So I totally understand. even the i haven't read your article yet the youth that you have here, but the article, I was like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So what we do, but...
Speaker: ah Will I take it down once it runs? Because it's a solar power one. So once it runs out of battery, will take it down? I don't know. so you do you have your ring camera on like on the door that goes to your balcony. Is that it? Yes. yeah it's on that it's on our It's on our back porch, which also overlooks our parking lot. So even if somebody came in, like i don't a lot of people don't have to deal with this, but there is a a string of criminals in Chicago who are going around and stealing Cadillac converters, whatever you... Oh, the Cadillac converters, yeah. Like whatever, whatever they're doing with these things, I don't know, but it's still a thing. It's because of the copper in them, isn't it? I think. I don't know. I have no idea. don't know anything I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it's because, and someone's probably going to go you're an idiot. But I think it's because the catalytic converters have like a mass of copper in them, which is really valuable. And so they, and so they go around stealing these fuck and they've been doing it for years now. they They've been doing these things.
Speaker: but you know what what What I don't understand is like the car companies, like, can you not just make it like impossible to steal? like know you know what seriously or I Aren't there like, ah so from what I understand, a lot of cars now have those weird locks on their tires so that you can't. oh interesting. Interesting.
Speaker: I don't know if you know this, but you can't like change your own tire unless you have like that kind of... ah What would you call that? Like a screwdriver, I guess? Like that kind. um And so why can't they just do that for that? But I don't i don't know. the the the whole rackt knows The whole racket on metal in Chicago is so strange to me. That's crazy. I can't.
Speaker: I mean, it does it does speak to... I think it does speak to just like a desperation that's out there in general. Yeah, of course. Of just like... Man, am there' there's always this going to be fucking ne'er-do-wells who are just fucking you know miscreants and and they like they and they you know they just suck. But like I think that the the, I don't want to use this word, but like the class or the category of people that are, and I don't want to use this phrase to justify it, I want to be really clear.
Speaker: like who are like being driven to thievery because they because like they're like so desperate. I think that's... it's desperation. They have no other opportunity. That's a growing thing right now. But but anyways, ah back to the Ring camera. You know, the I'll go into this article in a moment from Vox from July of 2026. But um when I noticed the Ring cameras being kind of weird is when... Because my my my sister and my brother-in-law have one.
Speaker: Yeah. And, and my, my brother-in-law is, uh, he is a sheriff actually. And so like, ah frankly, I understand why he has one. Like he's a sheriff, he's an elected official, but he's also a law enforcement official. He easily targeted.
Speaker: Yeah. And frankly, his house has been targeted before. It's been targeted by, by different motorcycle gangs and, and, and other things like that. So look, he has a, a, a distinct reason to have one. But there was this one interesting moment where he sent me because like he he can look at the videos on his phone. Right. And there was this one video and I i wasn't at that their house because i I was already over here.
Speaker: And um he was he he was talking to my brother um outside on like the porch because the ring camera is like out there on the porch. i And I don't think it's a ring camera. It's like another brand, but whatever. It's the same thing.
Speaker: And so he sent me this video because he was like, oh, we we think we saw something kind of ghostly. like like he Like he thought like they saw orbs or something like that. And so he sent it to me and and I'm watching the video, but listen, it records audio too.
Speaker: yeah And so as they're as they're as you know as I'm watching for something ghostly to happen, it's my brother and my brother-in-law and they're you know they're probably having a glass of whiskey, smoking a cigar outside and they're talking and they're actually talking about me.
Speaker: on this video. and And they're talking about like, oh you know, I hope he's being safe over there. You know, want him to be safe and this and that, whatever. And I remember them being like, you know, he loves to get into political arguments. I just hope he doesn't get into the wrong one with somebody. And I was like,
Speaker: I don't think he knows that he sent me this part of the video. Well, cause I, like I said, I don't think he actually knew. And like, you know, they didn't say anything bad about me, but, and, and they wouldn't have. Um, but I just thought, I thought it was funny. And then I, and then I just started thinking, and I was like, wow, huh?
Speaker: That thing must catch a lot of fucking conversations. And where is all of that transcribed audio going? you know And all of these things put together, like it's just it's so interesting. But then another thing that I thought of is you know you watch all of these like real crime things on Netflix or whatever. Oh, girl. Oh, yeah. And so there's all these you know these new things where like they're trying to find somebody, they're chasing somebody. And how like instead of just using like government cameras that are like you know up in the fucking telephone poles or whatever... Like how they rely on like people's ring cameras as you know, whoever they're looking for goes house by house by house. like I'm thinking of like the Idaho murders one. Like they, yeah they, they used a bunch of ring cameras from houses that he would have driven by to kind of piece things together.
Speaker: And like, you know, that's a really interesting use. And like, frankly, thank God that was there because they, they caught the motherfucker who's a clearly an evil piece of shit. But at the heart of it all, beyond the things you know good or even kind of fun or funny that can happen, because Lord knows, I'm sure people's ah but either reels or TikToks are full of like these these funny blooper things that that that come from them too.
Speaker: Beyond all of that, though, I think is is the deepening of a phenomenon of just increasing paranoia among all of us. That whoever comes to your door must clearly not do harm must not have a good intention. And we we must treat them as though they are coming to Fort Knox. And if you don't have the right ID, ah you better get out of here or I'm going to call the cops or I'm going to shoot you. And that is some pretty disturbing stuff. And that's what this article goes into. The article is called Your Ring Camera Isn't Stopping Crime, But It Might Be Making You Paranoid. This is by Allie Volpe, once again from Vox, just a couple of months ago. and she And I won't read the whole thing, but I'll read you just some bits of it. She says that... um
Speaker: Doorbell surveillance is undermining neighborly relationships. In 2022, father and son in Florida received notifications from their ring doorbell camera. Someone was at their door. The pair quickly jumped into action, scouring their apartment complex for a would-be intruder. The scene they happened upon was a woman checking her phone in her car.
Speaker: They fired seven shots at her as she drove away. The woman who survived had never approached their door. The person who was captured on camera turned out to be a neighbor dropping off a package that had been mistakenly delivered to his home. So I'll stop there.
Speaker: It was a neighbor trying to be nice. That's what happened here. So this is an extreme example of paranoia-fueled behavior spurred by home security systems, but it's part of a larger trend.
Speaker: Footage of alleged porch pirates is regularly posted to community Facebook and next-door groups, and any odd-seeming or erratic action can cause suspicion, especially if you're a person of color.
Speaker: This class of doorbell cameras, which includes Amazon owned Ring, Google Nest Doorbell, and SimpliSafe is marked as a convenient means of seeing who's at your door, a tool to catch burglars and trespassers, and maybe even find your lost dog.
Speaker: In actuality, its uses are often more nefarious. Hundreds of local law enforcement and government agencies and nationwide have joined Ring's social app Neighbors, a platform where anyone, regardless of whether they own a Ring camera, can post a tip about crime or safety in their neighborhood and where investigators can request footage from Ring users.
Speaker: And doorbell cameras are popular. 62% of respondents in 2025 U.S. News survey said they installed an outdoor security camera at home.
Speaker: Americans have turned their yards and porches into tiny surveillance states. And look, Ali Volpe goes on from there. It's it's a good article. if you if you If you're into it, I think you should you know have a look at this on Vox.com. But a a little bit more that that i'll give that I'll give you here.
Speaker: um She says that the value in being part of a community is knowing each other. It requires us to be more comfortable with our neighbors getting involved in our affairs and us getting involved in theirs.
Speaker: The only way to do that is through genuine conversation. Start by simply saying hello when you cross paths in the hallway or while walking your dog. Then transition to small talk, some possible conversation topics, the weather, events in your town, recommendations for a plumber. She's being cheeky here, of course. Neighborly small talk collectively really matters in instilling trust and understanding of your community.
Speaker: And the person that she's quoting here says, we underappreciate how important regular, routinized social interactions are either are either in the workplace or in our neighborhoods.
Speaker: With time, you'll become an established part of each other's days, a familiar face you see around the neighborhood. Someone to ask a favor of. Someone to do a favor for. Someone who isn't a threat or someone to spy on.
Speaker: But another person living their lives in proximity to yours. So ah I think that's it. And, um you know, look, nothing that I've said there from this article should surprise anybody if you just extrapolate everything else that's happened in American society, but not just American society. It's over here too. I say that all the time, but it's true.
Speaker: It's just everyone is afraid of each other now. And, and everyone is Everyone, yeah unless you know for sure that you agree on, you know, 100% of everything, everyone just kind of hates each other.
Speaker: And um I don't know. It's just not the world I i i was hoping for. did You know, I'll be honest, I just think it's it's just such a yeah we live in in a world that is just so charged now, whether it's, you know, now the the very idea that like and this is true, you know, look and all the shit runs on AI, so we may as well talk about it, too.
Speaker: Whether it's the idea that AI is literally going to kill us all in three years. Which is like a thing that isn't science fiction. It's like what actual AI researchers are saying right now. Or whether it's another war or whether it's politics or whether it's this or whether it's that or whether it's can I trust my neighbor.
Speaker: It just sort of feels like everything is just so
Speaker: paranoia inducing these days. It's such a heavy time. And well I just don't, I don't know. I, and you know, I gave a couple of good uses for these cameras earlier. And you know, like you listen, if that was my neighbor that got broken into, I would have done the same thing that you guys did. I would have been like, well, I got to protect myself now. like I guess this is probably what I'm going to do.
Speaker: I would have done the exact same thing. It's just, I don't know. What are we doing? Well, I think that like the weird thing about being chronically online is that there's no nuance anymore. There's no um there's no like we can talk about this and come to an understanding. It's either you're on one side or you're on the other.
Speaker: And so that creates like a very strong divide that no longer is going to be able to be broken down. but i think a lot of times what we learned in, i don't know if you, i mean i I learned a lot of debate in college. I went to a school of communications. So like, but like, that's what that's for is for like, you know what i mean? Like to have a conversation back and forth and understand where each of you are coming from based on your past experiences and who you grew up as and who you were surrounded by. And that all makes a big difference in how you talk to people and how you understand people. And so you kind of have to give a little bit of grace.
Speaker: I say a little bit because some people are beyond that. If, if I'm being honest with the way that things are nowadays, ah but you you do have to have more conversations with people because I think, and you know, politics and the world will not let us understand this anymore, but we're far more, we're far more equal than what we give ourselves credit for.
Speaker: And i think that we need to get back to jes talking to each other and maybe not hiding behind keyboards all the time and just fucking shit talking everybody or or or hiding behind ring cameras. I mean, that that's just the thing. It's, you know, like if if all we're going to do is constantly saying that every person that comes to my door is coming there to kill me or to harm me or to rob me or to whatever,
Speaker: Like, ah that's that's just not a way to live, boss. And yeah um i don't know what to tell you. Like, if if you want to keep living in that paranoia, I guess, you know, do it.
Speaker: um But what if, what if, I hear, just just just a crazy idea, what if we didn't? yeah that's like like Like everything else happening right now, we don't have to keep making these decisions. We don't. And like, you know, back to the AI thing briefly, like, look, AI has some really cool uses. I'm not going to say it's totally bad because it's not.
Speaker: And like there are some great ways that it can save time. There are some great ways that it can help you learn or help you do this or help you do that. That's awesome. You know, like here's an example. We do this fucking podcast. We have to make a worksheet every week. I just built a skill in Claude that helps me make that worksheet in like two minutes as opposed to taking an hour to do it.
Speaker: That's kind of cool. But like, do we have to keep going so far in AI that like, just to beat China, we got to keep going, going, going, going until the end of time, you know, building the fucking Terminator? No, we don't.
Speaker: You could just stop now and we'd be fine. It'd be okay. It really would be. In the same way that like, no, i don't, I've really thought about getting a dash cam for my car because it seems like everyone else has one now. And Lord knows when you have an accident or this thing or that thing, you're going to want proof.
Speaker: And something in me just felt like, no, i don't want that. I'm not going to do that. Yeah, because then because then all I'm going to think about is just... yeah Getting an accident. you Well, I got to catch this person. Oh, got to go review that. oh god like i don't I don't need that in my life. I don't want to have a heart attack from it. i don't And I really mean that. like I've already got enough stress.
Speaker: I don't need something else to add more. Absolutely not. So I don't know. I don't know. Well, and just to like, ah just to bring it back to, you know, like the queer community is that like we, and I, you know, I'm speaking a little bit for you, but feel free to chime in. But like, we grew up hiding.
Speaker: And so like, yeah, we did. Like whatever now that we feel like everyone's hiding, it's like, well, what do we do now? How are we supposed to open up and be part of a community now if everyone's just hiding behind whatever they're hiding behind? Well, and and here's the other thing that I'll offer you, too, because, you know, we're talking about surveillance today in terms of like being like watch with camera kind of stuff, which is what you yeah talk about, too. Let's not forget about surveillance of data.
Speaker: And so, yeah yeah you know, look, Grindr, guess if you think, by the way, the people that own Grindr are pieces of shit. Let's just be honest about that, number one. Okay, so we're talking about all these fucking politicians on Grindr, but none of them have surfaced. What the fuck course is this? yeah like I mean, and like, Grindr is like owned by a Republican. like Like, it's Republicans that own it because they're making a shitload of money off of it.
Speaker: Do you think they're not tracking, pardon me, that they're not tracking your data on there? Do you really? You don't think they're tracking what you say? You don't think they're tracking what you do? You don't think that one day when like, and look, the day is coming as I i still believe this deep in my dark little heart that the day is coming where they start to round people up. They're not going to go, oh, grinder.
Speaker: There's an easy way to get them. I don't know what to tell you dudes, but like we are being surveilled there too. That is just the fucking truth. ah I don't know. I don't know. Dark stuff. do you want to hear some more dark stuff? yeah I mean, look, this is it the right podcast for it. You know, um I looked up a couple of things. um One thing that we haven't really focused on too much is the use of flock cameras. This is a new phenomenon. i don't think this is new in the, in the UK as they've had CCTV for decades. decades, I guess. The UK for a while was the most, it had like the most CCTV cameras in the world.
Speaker: Yeah. um And so here in the U.S. they're starting... i I didn't even know about this until like maybe a month ago. And then I started hearing more and more about this flock camera thing. And the most I've been hearing about it is that they're popping up in neighborhoods where there are these new data centers because the data centers are afraid of being basically rioted against. And so they're putting up flock cameras to protect their data?
Speaker: Their... Their water? i The stuff that we pay for? ah that's very interesting It's very strange. It's bizarre. The fact that we... ah And I'm i'm not going to get up on this brick for too long. But like the fact that we fund corporations just to live is insane to me. That we worship corporations...
Speaker: over people is fucking insane to me. it' So we're just like, oh yeah, put it up in my neighborhood. Let it use all the water. Let it use all the cooling. i don't need air conditioning. What are talking about? It's only 115. It's disgusting. Yeah. um But so we've we've got this new phenomenon where police now, I think it's up over 50 law enforcement officers now.
Speaker: have been charged with falsifying records, stalking and following romantic partners and ex-lovers. ah One that I found literally from this last week, a 13-year veteran member of the Albany, New York Sheriff's Office was arrested Wednesday ah after investigators investigators said,
Speaker: They discovered she allegedly used flock cameras to track the license plates of her ex-girlfriend and other acquaintances. Lori Moore, 47, a senior investigator with the sheriff's office, was charged with two misdemeanors, second-degree falsifying business records, and official misconduct after investigators say she found tracked her former girlfriend's plates and nearly 3,000 times.
Speaker: along with four others over the last two years. So she's following this person who she's not even romantically involved with anymore over 3,000 times. Insane.
Speaker: Using her her power to do this. um And this is not new. So a couple of other things. that And I'm telling you, Maddie, all these stories are from like this summer. It's kind of crazy.
Speaker: ah Marcy Bakley, who couldn't figure out how her police chief ex always knew where she was, sometimes texting her about her movements within minutes. Or Christian Morales, a Wisconsin police officer who used the flat cameras to check whether his then girlfriend had gone to an abortion clinic, accusing her of seeking a potential termination. My God. This, you know, it's not only a violation of privacy, but also verges on like HIPAA violation and really getting into people's most private medical decisions for their for their lives.
Speaker: it's just insane to me that they, that this would be allowed. i i I, I, I saw a recent one on, on TV. It must've been on CNN about like, ah I think it was in California. might've been in Florida. but I might have them confused, whatever. We're like ah a cop was like working on like a movie set.
Speaker: and and i don't know who the actress was because they didn't say it but like he was working on the set and like must have like chatted with her and she was probably some you know beautiful actress whatever and he like like there's video of it he like followed her and like harassed her like a bunch and she finally called the cops and they caught his ass and like he's like going to jail now ah But, ah and and like when when they got him confessing on on on, you know, on camera, like it was just, it was so bizarre. And he was using flock to find her.
Speaker: And just like the the the depravity of it, you know, when when you give depraved people the tool to misbehave, you give them an inch, they're going to take a fucking mile. It's it's really, it's really scary stuff. It honestly is.
Speaker: Well, speaking of scary, imagine being framed for a crime you never committed. Oh, my God. Because AI maybe thought you looked like someone else. Awesome. That's great. like so So this is a new phenomenon that um we are now ah relying on ai to solve our own crimes. And lets listen up.
Speaker: It's not perfect, nor humans, but it's... It's so new. Why are we using it to solve crime? um So a couple of, i have three stories here. I'll just go through them very quickly and I'll get your reaction to this. ah Portia Woodruff was eight months pregnant when police arrested her after a facial recognition helped identify the wrong woman. Detroit police investigating at carjacking. So just a carjacking, like easily solvable.
Speaker: Like, I don't know. Like when I think of the litany of abuses in the criminal justice system, I think carjacking, whoopity do it's a thing you know he mean like that's what that's what I would hope insurance is for but we did a whole episode on insurance a little while ago go back and listen to that and see how I feel about insurance um but ah surveillance footage through facial recognition software which returned at Woodruff as the possible match a victim subsequently selected for her from a photo lineup ah police arrested Woodruff at her home while she was getting her children ready for school She spent about 10 hours in jail while heavily pregnant. She was innocent and the charges were ultimately dropped. Detroit subsequently changed its facial recognition policies. I'm sure they were like, well, take out the clause and say we can't arrest people because they kind of look like somebody which whatever. Another story, Christopher Gatlin spent 16 months in jail. As someone who just spent six days in a hospital, 16 months in jail sounds like eternity. After facial recognition pointed police towards the wrong man, Gatlin was accused in Missouri after facial recognition software matched him to grainy surveillance footage. According to Washington Post investigation, investigators said,
Speaker: then constructed a problematic photo lineup, and the victim's identification became essentially the only additional evidence. Gatlin remained incarcerated for 16 months before prosecutors dropped the case.
Speaker: It's a great illustration of automat automation bias. Once the computer says this is your guy, everything afterward can start to feel like interpreted as confirm confirmation. Robert Dillon was arrested and all like and allegedly trying to lure a child into Get this, in a city he's never visited.
Speaker: Jesus. Police in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, were investigating a man accused of trying to lure a child into fast food restaurant. A grainy image was run through AI-assisted facial recognition system and a returned 52-year-old Robert Dillon, who lived at more than 300 miles away in Fort Myers. Dylan says he's never been to Jacksonville Beach. He nevertheless was arrested in August 2024, but now is suing the departments and officers involved.
Speaker: Good. I mean, it's just like... a We use AI at work. Guess what? I work for a tech company. Of course we do. um And I'm sure most of you out there are using AI in one way or another right now, whether you like it or not. But you know one of the things that we talk about or that I talk about with my teams for the things that you know they use it for is like...
Speaker: Hey, be sure to check it with whatever it gives you. Like if you're going to have it, you know, use our skill that we built to build you a deck. Okay, that's cool. it looks It looks nice at first glance, but you know, go in there and make sure that the the grammar is correct. Go in there, make you know, if you need to nudge something over or whatever, it's not going to be perfect.
Speaker: Same kind of stuff with this. Like, is no one checking the output from this? No one's like going, oh, okay, we've got we've got this thing saying this. Maybe we should, I don't know, subpoena his fucking cell phone records. Was he was he pinging in Jacksonville, Florida?
Speaker: like Like, how did nobody how did nobody think to do those things? that's right that It's fucked up. what when but When it comes to and again these things, though, i i like common sense goes out the window. Yeah, I mean, it's it's just like, you know, you've got you you have lawyers and there's so many examples of this now. You have lawyers who are using AI to to quote case law in trials about cases that don't even exist. It's just making it all up. It's just it's just so sloppy and lazy for these people. And in the case of this, quote unquote, surveillance, it's not even true.
Speaker: It's ridiculous. It's crazy. God. ah yeah yo Well, it's um the state of things is, is precarious.
Speaker: And, um ah you know, it's, it ah likely feels weird to you listener and to you, Andrew, to sort of hold hope in one hand and hold you know, what just seems very hopeless in the other.
Speaker: um i hope we can continue to balance them. You know, i i i really do. it's But it's getting harder and harder. And um i don't know I don't know if you feel that way, but but it is.
Speaker: So to everyone out there, solidarity and in how hard it feels these days, because we got to get through this somehow, folks. We really do. We got to find a way through.
Speaker: Unfortunately, it has made me, the the the state of surveillance and all of this, it has made me want to live a much smaller life. And I don't want that.
Speaker: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What do you mean a smaller life? What do you mean by that? Like I'm not on social media anymore. I'm not like, I'm not doing any of the things that I used to find joy in because there's no joy left in it. Because of, because of, wait, because of social media or wait. So are you saying that you wouldn't want to post on social? Is that, is that basically it?
Speaker: ah Not just that, though. It's it's more of like, i don't want out so i don't want to be looked at all the time. I get it. I get you know i do. You know, like, um i've I've spoken about my boyfriend on here ah a couple of times, and we're we're great and we're doing well.
Speaker: But if you follow me on social, maybe something different than my previous relationships, you might notice we never post about each other. Right. And that is completely on purpose. It is deliberate.
Speaker: Because I don't want to. I don't want to. And but like we don't need to post photos of ourselves doing things. to like we're do We're doing them. Yeah. To like prove to people that like we're doing something. like you know like we We went to a concert last night. I'll put up a story about it later. I will tag him in it. But there's no pictures of us on there. And I don't want there to be because I don't need that. And and he doesn't want that either.
Speaker: And that's great because that can just be left off of this. And we're perfectly fine with that. um But I feel you. I do feel you on this. i'm I'm glad I asked the question because I kind of feel the same way.
Speaker: i I feel anymore like no matter where I am. somebody's got a camera and someone's going for it. And like, you know, ah not to go too long in this segment, but like one example of this, we we were driving to, to Connemara, which is in the very West of Ireland. It's an absolutely beautiful, if you, if you ever come to Ireland, people, you make time for Connemara. It is,
Speaker: It will blow your mind how beautiful it is. Anyways, we're on the way out there and I've got a few funny bumper stickers on on my car and like not a lot of people do bumper stickers here, but I do because I'm a fucking nerd. And so one of these that I got on there is like, it's like those keep honking. and I'm doing this thing and it's like, keep honking. I'm in my car crying to the 1993 Cranberries hit linger, which I think is hilarious to have on my car in Ireland. Anyways, these kids must have seen that and because they were driving behind us and they were acting kind of weird.
Speaker: And then they like, they drove up on the side of us so that they could like film me. and then and then they And then they dropped back and went back behind my car.
Speaker: it was but It was bizarre. It was absolutely bizarre to see. I hate it. Manuel was like, what are they doing? I was like, I think that they like saw my funny bumper sticker and now they're probably making some kind of TikTok about me. like that's That's what it is. like I am so tired of walking around and seeing people with cameras Or this this one thing that happens now in Dublin, it happens in a lot of other cities. I know that it does. There's like these guys that are like dressed up like bushes or they're dressed up like, you know, fucking like random stationary things on a fucking you know how we feel about pranks here. yeah We do not like them. Yeah. And they like, they hop out and they scare you. And of course, like they've got a guy that's filming the entire thing. And they're not asking for your consent. They're not like making you sign a paper. They're just putting it on their fucking Instagram feed or TikTok or whatever. They're making a shitload of money off of it.
Speaker: And like, it's, I think that is fucking bizarre. i think if you think that's funny, that's fucking weird. And the, and any other number of just people wearing meta glasses now that are filming you without you knowing it all the time.
Speaker: think that's fucking weird. So I get what you're saying about like, I want to live a smaller life because honestly, Andrew, i do too. I totally get chris and it. And it makes me want to like not go into town anymore. I prefer staying at home a lot more now.
Speaker: it's it's But the thing is, is like and we'll we'll move on after this, but like yeah it's being forced upon you. it's not It's not like you're a willing participant. It's not like I'm going out and like, ooh, I'm going to go answer some of those ah people on the street questions and get popular on the internet. I'm like, no, leave me alone. like i can completely agree.
Speaker: Well, look, folks, I think that does it for our first segment. But that is not the rest of the show, because guess what? We'll be right back with what you've been watching, bitch.
Speaker: Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat.
Speaker: And we are back with what you've been watching, bitch. What you've been watching, you camera-toting bitch. Right, to surveil this bitch. So listen, this is the segment of the show where we talk about what we have been watching. And each of us for this episode have three. So Andrew, tell me the first thing that you have been watching.
Speaker: All right. My one is one that came and went so fast in the spring. I never even knew it was in theaters, but now it is on HBO. You can check it there. It is called Mother Mary. Have you heard about this? haven't even heard of this. Honestly, no.
Speaker: so So this is Anne Hathaway. She stars in this movie about a Taylor Swift-esque type of pop star. like that' i okay so Truly, Andrew, I haven't heard a word about this. That's so crazy. Keep going.
Speaker: Okay, so the the premise of the movie is that she has hit a point in her career where she she feels like she's stunted create creatively. And so she goes back to her original costume designer that kind of like made her what she is now. Like think of like Lady Gaga, Taylor Swift, of like they make these like, and like it the meat suit and all these like these crazy things.
Speaker: um And she goes back to her original costume designer who was a like a friend of hers in childhood and like helped her reach her fame. And she's like, I need you to make me one last dress. I need you to make me like the end-all be-all dress for my new tour. And I know that what happened between us happened and it happens throughout the the movie, but it's all about like their relationship and like them trying to figure out like where do they stand as people, where do they stand as professionals? Because that costume designer has now gone on to be like a, like a, I don't know, like a Louis Vuitton. Like it's very like she's high end now. Like it's not like she depends on this person anymore to like make her what it is. And so it's all that push and pull of like, well, what do I need to do this for you? And why do I need this? But yeah, It all comes from like a horror lens because there's an unannounced disturbance that definitely happened in their in their life that we don't know going into the movie. It's revealed throughout the movie. um Here's what I'll say about it.
Speaker: um Much like we had like a lot of these movies, I'm trying to remember, Smile 2, had the one with Josh Hartnett, Trap. ah Trap, yeah. Yeah, where we had all these pop stars. And I think this one maybe just came out a little too late to let capture. But it's it's Anne Hathaway. like i well I don't know how this guy got biased so quickly. um But I enjoyed it. it's a much I'm making it sound like a bigger movie than it is because it's kind of...
Speaker: Besides like the musical performances, because they do show some of her like quote unquote in concert. It's mostly kind of like a two person play almost like because it's most interesting and them trying to figure out like what's going on with either of them. I definitely recommend it. It's not going to be like in my top 10 of like horror movies this year, but it definitely took me off guard.
Speaker: That sounds really interesting. I'm going to watch that for sure. Yeah, it was it was interesting. And I'm forgetting the name of the woman who plays the other, ah the costume designer, but she was also very good. Elizabeth Taylor. yeah the Diamonds. it was my best friend. These films brought me luck.
Speaker: um But yeah, that's Mother Mary. I would definitely check it out. but don't Don't put your expectations too high, but I enjoyed it quite a bit. You know what, Andrew? I don't have any expectations anymore at all, so that's perfect. um My first one is one called Leviticus. I probably heard about this one. Yeah, this came and went very quickly too. Yeah, so if find it took a long time for it to open over here for whatever reason. um I don't know why it took so long, but it opened last week for us. Oh, wow.
Speaker: Yeah, so ah we went to go see it. It's a ah horror film from Adrienne Chiarella. um It's produced by the guys that did the other Australian ones like um Talk To Me and Bring Her Back. what i can't think of their names right now, but you you know who they are. The Something Brothers, right? Yeah. ah This stars Joe Bird. um Joe Bird was the the little brother in Talk To Me. um He's a little bit more grown up now. And Stacey Clausen. I don't remember the other stuff that Stacey Clausen has done. He's just sort of a handsome Australian guy. um And this is about them in this little town
Speaker: in um in in Victoria, in in Australia, and with the the the state Victoria, um or or the town, pardon me. And, uh, it's sort of like this conservative, like evangelical town and, um, Joe bird and his mom, I forget her name, but she's an actress that we, Oh, it's, uh, uh, Mia Mia Wasikowska.
Speaker: That's who it is. Um, she's the mom. They move to this town. They're new there. He's trying to fit in, blah, blah, blah, blah. He starts hanging out with Stacy Clausen and like, you know, bing, bang, boom, they, you know, sort of fool around here and there. And it's like a coming of age movie when it comes to this.
Speaker: But in this town, there is sort of like this, like this one evangelical church that it seems like everyone goes to. And so, uh, ah things happen. i dont I don't want to give too much away because it is, there's one part that is, that is really sad, but needless to say, this is a film that has to do with, um, with like, uh, what's right I'm looking for? The camps that they send us to. I can't think of that. Uh, conversion camps. It's, it's not It's not a camp, but it's like like a conversion thing.
Speaker: This movie turns into a bit of like a possession movie. It turns into a bit of like an It Follows movie. It has a lot of really great elements. It is short. It is only 88 minutes long. um which is but it's crazy how short it is to be honest but it's really efficient it's an it's an efficient effective film it's not perfect but i think it's really really good it's well done of of like the gay horror that we have this is one that takes itself seriously and it's not it's not about like um
Speaker: yeah Maybe I'll just leave it there. What it's about, I think, is really worth watching, especially in today's world um where all of that shit is coming back. And um I also really appreciate that this movie doesn't, it doesn't like devolve into like soft porn to tell its story, you know? Instead, it really just like, it's just very real, you know? It's it's a very, like the the camera is just observing reality. um between these you know these two boys and others that are just beginning to learn who they are.
Speaker: And um I think it's got a good ending and we really enjoyed it and I i can't wait to see it again. um So yeah, I'll leave it there. If you haven't seen Leviticus, I would go see it. you know As I say with a lot of films, if you've got a chance to go see it in the theater, maybe you do, at least over here in UK and Ireland. um And maybe on the continent, you might still, I don't know about America, but if you, if you have that chance, I would go really enjoyed it. It's called Leviticus. Enjoy. That's funny. Cause I'm pretty sure this was in theaters in June here. so I see. Yeah. i I think it was too. Cause I remember thinking, Whoa, is it just like maybe not going to come out here or something, but there you go.
Speaker: Yeah. I've been waiting for this one to come on on demand. So I'm eager to see like where I can find it. I think you'll like it. I think you'll like it a lot. cool my next one i've been doing my my you know i was bedridden for a while so i have been doing my catch-up on movies that i missed in the because i don't know if you remember this but like may was like every horror movie came out in may like literally yeah one after another after another after another and i saw obsession that was the one that i saw i still haven't seen the i still haven't seen the back rooms yet like there are certain ones oh you haven't seen back rooms yet oh my god
Speaker: So good. um And so the one that I checked out was now on Paramount Plus. It's called Passenger. Do you remember the preview for this movie? What's... Wait a minute. Hold on. I did not see this one yet. Manuel wanted to see it Tell me about it again because I forget what it's about.
Speaker: So this is essentially about a road trip ghost, if that makes any sense. Ooh, cool. That sounds awesome. So it it it kind of takes place. There are kind of like two lines of the movie. There's like the opening, ah cold open, I guess if you would call it, up where it shows like two men that are driving down a dark road at night and they stop to go to the bathroom on the side of the road and something happens to them. And then it cuts to this couple who are now experimenting in van life. You know van life, right?
Speaker: No, actually. What's van life? So they've given up everything. They've packed up a van. see. And they're going to live on the road. They're going to live off the land or whatever. It's funny because there's one part where they park in a Lifetime Fitness parking lot and that's what they go to take a shower and that kind of a thing. So they're doing that. And they happen upon this this entity. Okay. They call it, it's, it's, so this is what the thing here, here's, I'll just cut to the chase with this movie.
Speaker: I really liked the setup. I really liked this idea of like, we're going down a lonely highway or a lonely road and we accidentally pick up a passenger. I think that that's really creepy. You know, I think as kids growing up Midwest, we had so many road trips as kids. So it's kind of creepy and interesting to think like, what could happen just because you went down the wrong road at the wrong time? Yeah, sure, sure.
Speaker: What I don't like about this movie is that it devolves into this weird pseudo religious. And honestly, it doesn't even do this until like the last like 20 minutes of the movie. And then all of a sudden it's uber Christian, uber Catholic, uber ah religious overtones of like, if you don't do this by God, then God will punish. And I was just like, you kind of lost me. So just listen, listen,
Speaker: I do. I think it's worth checking out. Yeah, because there are some creepy moments, especially in the first half of the movie when you're trying to like figure because there's like this whole like and I'm going to use this term. I'm not going to use it, but the movie used it. A hobo code where like there's like ah things on the old road where like ah the the people of, you know, train the train people and all that used code to like find places and stuff. Sure. And they kind of use that. And I don't know, there's interesting ideas here. i just don't think that they nailed the the ending and like the landing of it all. So I would definitely check it out. And, and curious of other people that have seen this movie, because I know that the hype was really big when the trailer came out, because the trailer was actually pretty scary. And it's probably one of the scariest parts of the movie is what's in the trailer. Sure. um And so I want to know what other people thought about this, because I ultimately was pretty let down, but, uh,
Speaker: if i If I would have cut the movie at like 45 minutes and maybe given it a different ending, I probably would have loved it. So I don't know how to feel about it, if that makes any sense. I'm here to hear your opinion on it if you want to check it out. Yeah, you know, I i definitely will because like, um you know, obviously i'm i'm ah I'm a person of faith. i I really enjoy thinking about theology and all that kind of stuff. And that's I made that clear it all over this this podcast. um But like...
Speaker: I brought it up before where like the problem that I have with the conjuring movies is that, uh, what are their names? Uh, the Warrens, the Warrens are so bizarrely kooky Christian. Yeah. It really does kind of ruin it for me because like they there, there, there,
Speaker: and first of all, none of their theology makes sense, number one. But number two, they really are sort of saying that like, oh, because you aren't good enough as a Christian, that's why this thing is happening, right? Yeah. Which for me, as somebody, once again, who is a person of faith, is not true. I don't believe in that. That's not the kind of thing that I believe in. And I...
Speaker: like to make that point known because i don't I don't want people to think that we're all the same under this you know same label. um That's why i always call it the CCs. The kooky Christians are the ones that do us bad. And um i I'd be interested. i will watch it so that I can said i can to have my take on like well huh I wonder what what kind this is that might be interesting for me to figure out so I think that'll be interesting it just comes out of left field like that's all I'll say it's like oh this isn't this isn't what this movie is about but all of a sudden it is about that and I'm like wait what so I don't know
Speaker: Interesting. Andrew, my next one is another one I saw in cinemas. Saw this actually just a few days ago. ah Thanks to Letterboxd. Letterboxd, thank you for giving me a screening ticket to Everybody Digs Bill Evans, ah which was playing at the Lighthouse Cinema, which maybe one day for how many times I've mentioned you on this fucking show, you'll give me some free tickets. Anyways, back to this, just in case they heard that. ah Everybody Digs Bill Evans. Do you know who Bill Evans is?
Speaker: No. okay bill evans is a very very very famous jazz pianist um he's incredible he's one of my favorite jazz jazz artists of of jazz history um i've got a bunch of his records and he's incredible he's really really good uh people out there might know about uh his probably his most famous album which is sunday at the village vanguard uh which is a live recording of bill evans um And his bandmates in the Bill Evans trio recording at a jazz bar in New York called the Village Vanguard.
Speaker: um It became one of the most seminal jazz recordings of all time. And it's really, really good. it was just playing it the other day, actually. um So this movie is all about Bill Evans um and about ah his life and about his death.
Speaker: And like a lot of other jazz musicians of that era, he was an addict. He was an alcoholic. He was also a heroin addict, which was rampant in the jazz scene.
Speaker: um So a lot of people had problems with it. And he unfortunately was one of them, too. um The movie begins with the recording of Sunday at the Village Vanguard and then goes straight into, and this is not a, this is not ah ah ah a what do you call it, ah spoiler.
Speaker: and It goes right into when his bassist, Scott LaFaro, died in a car accident. Scott LaFaro and Bill Evans both loved each other and they hated each other, but they were geniuses together. And once Scott LaFaro died in this car accident, Bill Evans was lost for a long time. So this movie takes you on his journey to kind of come out of that lostness. Once he did, he produced a shitload of albums. It's a ton of them until until he eventually died. ah But one of the things that's really great about this is that he goes to Florida to spend some time with his parents. And who plays his parents? Harry and Mary Evans, but Bill Pullman and Laurie Metcalf.
Speaker: So, the great cast in this. um And a guy named Anders Danielson Lee plays Bill Evans. ah He's also a musician. um And he plays the fucking music, man. And he's really fucking good. But then you've got Bill Pullman playing his dad, Laurie Metcalf, like legendary Laurie Metcalf for God's sake, playing his mom. And they are fucking awesome.
Speaker: They're so good. like There's nothing about this movie that you don't believe from start to finish. um Look, it's it's it's depressing as hell. I'm not going to lie. But if you're if you're into jazz at all, if you're not into jazz, you're probably not going to like it. So don't watch it. But if you like jazz at all, it's really good. It's really well done. And something that I did not know about this because I had heard about it coming out, but...
Speaker: So then I didn't know about it is, you know, when we went to go see the screening, one of the producers was there um and she's an Irish woman. I forget her name, Fiona Kinsella, I think is her name. um And she told us that most of the movie was filmed right here in Ireland. Had no idea. And like, there's really no reason why it should have been. It could have just been filmed in New York or whatever, but it was mostly filmed in West Cork. And the the Florida scenes were. And it was interesting because like a lot of people don't know I know this sounds dumb, but like just how tropical Ireland can be. It used to be covered in in a rainforest for God's sake. um But there's palm trees all over Ireland. And so actually filming in Ireland to make it Florida kind of works, which is kind of just hilarious. So anyways, it was a fun night seeing it. Things again, Letterboxd. And it's a really great movie. I do recommend it. But once again, if you're not into jazz, you're probably not going to be into it. So heads up on that one.
Speaker: Cool. ah My last one is on Hulu. This is the ah eight episode series, Furious. Have you heard about this at all? I have heard about this. Yeah. Ooh, child.
Speaker: guess So we went into this. It's Emmy Rossum from shameless. Oh, awesome. I love her. um She plays a rookie FBI agent who is kind of sent to the desk to like answer phone calls. Like that's her job because she's like a new FBI agent. yeah And she kind of works herself into this case through means that you know are are explained in the show. um And it's all about her trying to track down a female serial killer in New York City. um And...
Speaker: She's a she's and she's a previous and NYPD officer. Also, she she moved on from the NYPD to become a FBI officer. And I got to tell you, i am not usually into these kind of shows. I'm not usually into like a a cop FBI. Sure. Sure.
Speaker: that kind of a show, this one is different. This one is different. And if you have any wits about you and you like Emmy Rossum, and I got to tell you, Matty, this show blew me away. Awesome. thought it was genius. That's so cool.
Speaker: I don't want to give too much away, but there is an underlying thing that you find out throughout the show that blew my, it blew my socks off. I thought that this show was amazing. i think that,
Speaker: the not only emmy rossum but the girl who plays the female sir i don't even want to call her a serial killer because she she's really not she's just well i don't want to give too much away but um she is amazing all the actors in this are amazing her her different cohorts it's got that one guy from um the white lotus season one who always plays the asshole and guess what he plays an asshole in this too Yeah. um But yeah, check this out. It's on Hulu. And so if you have Disney plus, I'm sure it's on there too. Furious. It's eight episodes. It's going to blow your socks off. I loved it.
Speaker: Awesome. Cool. My last one is one called the AI doc or how I became an apocaloptimist. you heard about this one? I started it and turned it off after like 25 minutes. Good for you.
Speaker: Good for you. I got to tell you. So I really, I was like, that i just, i I saw a trailer at some point and I was like, Oh, I can't wait to watch that. that That'll be good. Whatever.
Speaker: And um it was one and I couldn't find anywhere where it where it was free. um And so I was like, it was one of those things on Apple where it's like it was almost as you know cheap to buy it as to rent it. So i was like, well, I'll just buy it. I'll probably like it or whatever.
Speaker: Every time I do that, it's a mistake. I did get a refund on this one. I'm very happy. I watched it and i hated it. I viscerally hate this movie so much. like i I hate it. I hope that um The guy that made it, his name is Daniel Rohrer.
Speaker: um I hope that he hears this somehow so that he can hear what a fucking asshole he is for making this movie and what a fucking idiot he is for making this movie. So let me tell you why I feel so visceral about it. This movie, all that it did was turned out to be just a big fucking commercial for ai it's like they bought and paid for him on this and it is dressed up as though it's not and what it does is i wrote a little letterbox thing i'll just read it to you a mist and i gave it half a star i shouldn't even given it that I said, a missed opportunity to dig into AI and its insane portents for our future, missed by a man-child, more concerned in letting everyone know what an artist he is. Every unstaged, I put that in in quotes there, portion, is so clearly staged, it is cringe.
Speaker: And his sighs of relief, because he's expecting a baby, the guy who made this, right? And he's so worried because, oh, I'm going to bring a baby into this world. What's going to happen with AI? But he has this fucking conversation, Andrew, with Sam Altman in it.
Speaker: And Sam Altman says, oh, well, I'm having a baby too. And the camera goes over to this fucking douchebag making this movie. And he's like, and it's so fucking staged, Andrew.
Speaker: He's like, oh, and he's like breathing this sigh of relief. Like, oh, Sam Altman's having a baby. Thank God. oh god must be okay do you know what i mean it is yeah so this whole thing is so fucking and I hate using this word but it's so cringe it's so awful i I hate it I hate anyone who's involved in it I hate every part of it if you were thinking of renting this movie dear listener do not take, take our advice or be like Andrew and stream it and turn it off after a ah minute because it truly fucking blows.
Speaker: Yeah, I thought that this was going to be a true understanding of where we are with AI and like someone that was like actually like doing the meat and potatoes to like understand like where it came from and how it was being used and like what it meant for the future.
Speaker: And ultimately, I watched it for, like i said, about 20 minutes, and it was just all these talking heads talking about nothing. Nothing. Like they were talking about nothing. Nothing. was like, i don't want to watch this. And I just turned out it off. You know what? i'm I'm so glad that you did because it's just, it was such a piece of shit.
Speaker: One of the worst things I've ever seen in my life. Truly. Terrible. Cool. I think it's on HBO here. Congratulations, everyone. There's the AI doc. Go fuck yourself, Daniel Rohrer.
Speaker: All right, well, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. Maddie brought us Leviticus, which I think is going to be on demand here soon or in the theaters overseas. Everybody digs Bill Evans, which is now in cinemas, and the AI doc, which you can skip all together. Exactly. And Andrew brought us Mother Mary on HBO, Passenger on Paramount Plus, and Furious on Hulu. Folks, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. We'll be right back with our first film of the episode,
Speaker: ah ah idea that yeah right book of shadows blair witch 2 there we go
Speaker: last summer after the crowds left five strangers returned to the woods to uncover the truth but one of them has a secret that will unlock the curse you know you don't believe in the blair witch then why the hell did you bother to come i thought the movie was cool This fall, just in time for Halloween, the witch is back.
Speaker: Help! My earth is fire and water. Stop the stutty eyes off.
Speaker: My earth is fire and water.
Speaker: On October 27th, forget everything you've heard. Forget everything you've seen. Because this time, the truth is scarier than fiction. America!
Speaker: America!
Speaker: A brutal murder in the Black Hills discovered today. In the past year, the Black Hills area has been overrun with movie fans wanting to get a glimpse of where the Blair Witch Project was filmed. You saw them once for Blair Witch 1. Now we're back for Blair Witch 2, Book of Shadows. Andrew, tell us all about Book of Shadows, Blair Witch 2.
Speaker: Evil doesn't die. a year after the Blair Witch Project became a cultural phenomenon, tour guide Jeff Patterson leads four thrill seekers into the Burkittsville woods to camp at the ruins of Rustin Parr's house. They wake up with no memory of the night before and hours of camcorder and surveillance footage that shows them doing the things they can't remember doing. The witch isn't hiding in the woods anymore.
Speaker: She's on the tape. Directed by Joe Berlinger, written by Dick Beebe and Joe Berlinger. Production was handled by Hexon Films and Artisan Entertainment. jeffrey patterson is played by jeffrey donovan stephen ryan parker is by stephen barker turner kim diamond sorry that's just that's actually pretty funny that they just had to have three names each that's ridiculous uh kim diamond is played by kim director erica gerson is played by erica learson and tristan reiler is played by tristine schuyler rated r this comes in at 90 minutes this was released on october 27th of 2000 and locations include the baltimore maryland area along with burkittsville and other places along the east coast ah this was a 15 million dollar budget far greater than the original and it grossed about 47.7 million dollars Now, I know this is not a first-time watch for either of us, but I guarantee this is a first-time rewatch in a while.
Speaker: Oh, God, yeah. Big time. So, Matty, tell me your first impressions on a Book of Shadows Blair Witch 2. um I got to tell you this time i was mostly just confused, if I'm being real.
Speaker: And, like, i I was confused, like, right from the beginning. And I i watched it twice. And, like, look... i I, the first time, i maybe I didn't give it like a full, like, I'm going to really fucking watch this. But like, you know, it it was it was on in my house and I'm maybe looking at a couple of things, but I'm watching it for, for you know, with about 95% of my attention. And the thing that confuses me And I want to get your take on this.
Speaker: The first thing that you see is, forget what it says, but like on the screen, it's like, this is a reenactment. of This is a reenactment. what ah Can you tell me what what your interpretation of that is?
Speaker: So my interpretation is that they wanted to go beyond what they did in the first movie. So it's not necessarily the actual footage, but you know, like when you watch like true crime dramas or you watch like Unsolved Mysteries or anything that, and you get like the reenactment, you get like the actors playing.
Speaker: like what happened. I guess. That's what I took that as. do they Do they completely pull it off in this? No, I will say that. But I'm glad you called this out because I completely forgotten that that was the opening tile to the movie of like, oh, this is a reenactment of what happened a year after Blair Witch. And I was like...
Speaker: And, you know, they they kind of I'll let you get back to it. But like they kind of pull it off in the very first part where they're showing like all the footage of like interviewing people from the town and stuff. But then when they go to the actual movie, I'm like, well, this isn't a reenactment at all. This is just a movie. See, I don't i mean, that that's just that's it for me. I think that conceit, honestly, it just threw me off of everything else. I wish they would have actually done it that way because that's actually yeah an interesting idea. like you and think go andrew um Andrew, boom, boom, boom. you You're hitting my point exactly, which is the the idea behind this, I think, could be really cool.
Speaker: yeah I just think that this iteration of it, the way that they chose to do this, it just doesn't work. And like ah nothing about that that tile card at at the at at the very start of this none of that is None of that happens. it never it that That never occurs. So there's no like you know God in the box or there's no like breaking the fourth wall.
Speaker: it's It's just a movie. and so i think of ah do you think Do you ever ah remember that season of American Horror Story? You may have not lasted this long, but they did that um Roanoke season where like the first half was like a haunted TV show. like That's what I...
Speaker: think that they were trying to do but don't think that necessarily succeeded it just it just didn't work and and you know maybe if they if they had succeeded i maybe i would have liked it but because they didn't i was just sort of confused and then i was just sort of like well what is what's going on here and you know like look it's it's it's fucking it's from fucking 2000 It's very two things. Things were different then. But like, I mean, God, just for one thing, having to deal with the with the main guy, the main tour guy, the Jeffrey or whatever, just having to deal with him for the entire movie is if you can deal with that, dear listener, that's a lot of effort. You deserve a fucking medal. Who, funny enough, went on to very be a very successful actor. Oh, my God. I mean, he's he's truly terrible in this. like the the the part where he's on the like The very first part where he's on the porch and like he must run like the the the store, that the yeah where which store or whatever, the way that he's talking about, like, who gives me a hug and then I give him a hug and then we just hug each other. I was like,
Speaker: My God, this, it's that's just so, it's so stupid. It's just, so it's so fucking dumb. Did it remind you of the people you grew up with? Because it did to me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. A little bit. But like, it's just, it's just dumb. and, um and you know, I i really, but I, I,
Speaker: I watched the Blair Witch Project again today just for fun because honestly, when it's spooky time, I don't mind putting that on sort of anytime. It's just such a great one to have on in the background during spooky time. And I also put on the Blair Witch from 2016 earlier. We saw that in the theater together. Yeah. yeah yeah And i I also I just kind of like let that play on its own today, too, just because I just wanted to hear it. But, you know, I i was thinking about how when I first saw Blair Witch, I was probably too young for it. i was I was like too young to understand it. And like how, you know, I felt kind of weird about it for a while. But then then I really came to love Blair Witch Project. And now it's like one of my favorite horror films of all time. I yeah i i rewatch it very often. i just i really love it. And I think I love it so much because it takes itself so seriously.
Speaker: And um and the the performances from those three actors were just incredible. And just the whole scene. VR episode, The Woods, are terrifying. There you go. So you know everything behind it, I just really came to love. And with this one, there's just nothing for me to hold on to to love. there's There's just not. And look, if if there is something for you or for somebody else who watched it, grand, I'm happy for you.
Speaker: But for me, i just I really disliked watching this twice, or i guess three times since the first time I saw it. Interesting. I kind of have a different take on this. Please. I don't know. There's something weirdly nostalgic about this movie. And I will hang my hat little bit on this because this was one of those movies that I had on VHS and I fell down that stupid rabbit hole of The Secret of Esraver, which we'll talk about in little here. Oh, sure.
Speaker: um And so I've seen this movie quite a few times. It's been maybe a decade since I've watched it again. So yeah, sure. Watching a fresh movie again for me. But like, you know, we didn't watch the Blair Witch Project too long ago, like ah for for the show. And so it was still kind of fresh. And so going into this, I was like, you know what?
Speaker: I know that this is a 2000s movie that is anchored by a fucking early 2000s weird psycho metal music. And I understand. like I'm going to let that go. I'm going to let that part of it be live in its own thing. And I'm going to let all the stereotypes go of like, of course, there's a Wiccan. But you know what?
Speaker: If you were in high school in the 2000s, you knew people like this. I mean, fucking the redhead that was going around saying, blessed be like you did. You just, you are, you are absolutely correct on that. That, that is very true.
Speaker: And so like they, they are a stereotypical, but like we did know those stereotypes. So I don't know how much I can place the blame there. um But overall, like I kind of liked where they, uh,
Speaker: Here's my thing. I think the ideas here, like you said earlier, the ideas that are encapsulated in this are are actually pretty genius and are actually pretty good. Agreed. And I like and i like the the lore that they chose to concentratione concentrate on, like the Rustin Parr, Coffin Rock, ah those type of things, the kids. I think all of that is a good idea and it's a good like package to kind of like take a scary movie into the next realm of your life. you know, trilogy wherever they wanted the Blair Witch Project to be.
Speaker: I don't even think they wanted this movie, but you know, whatever they yeah where that's going to be. And I thought that it was kind of a genius idea to like give the witch a little bit more power, like take the witch out of the woods, if you will. quote I'll put that in quotes because there's definitely a line in the movie where they're like, oh, we still in Blair Township? And he's like, sure are. And I was know what mean? Like, Jesus. So I don't know. Like there are certain things that like, I like the idea of like the witch, like getting inside of Tristan and like that's fair and manipulating things. And like, it's not the person you think it is because you're led to believe through your own stereotypes and through your own prejudices that, the Wiccan of course is going to be the evil one. of course. Like, Like, you know, very early on that like Tristan is the one that has the dream about the ah miscarriage. She's the one that has the dream about being strung up by the kids. She's the one that has the dream about the, they're, they're putting their hands on her and all this stuff. And like of course it's her. I don't know why I couldn't reach beyond. Yeah. eyeline Eyeliner and curly red hair. You know what i mean? Like, yeah and so I don't know, there's something, there is something really special in here. And I, I do like that the filmmaker,
Speaker: and I'm reading in our notes here that this was not his cut, that they kind of cut this differently. I'd love to see like what his original vision was for it, acting aside, because let's be honest, like the acting's not great. like it's It's not a... it' I don't know. It's an early 2000s movie. um But like I don't know. I think there are some good ideas here. I think they maybe ironed some of those out in that 2016 one that we were speaking about. don't think that's a perfect movie by any means, but at least they... like they, um, they, they iron iron out some of the wrinkles in the lore in that movie. Whereas this movie just puts way more, way more wrinkles in that lore that, yeah well, what the fuck am I supposed to believe anymore? Because literally in this movie, anything can be the witch or nothing can be the witch, depending on, depending on what character you're looking at it through. Um, I think of that one scene where, um, Tristan's husband, like Steven, right? What's his name? Yeah, Steven. Steven, where him and Erica are like getting it on and all of a sudden she claws at his stomach and he's blood but bloody. And then they wake up and they're like, oh shit, what was going on?
Speaker: If she's not the witch, I don't understand why that scene exists. Yeah. You know what i mean? Because why would Tristan be trying to manipulate them to get with each other I don't know. it's a This movie's very mixed up.
Speaker: And then on top of that, there's this whole side yeah about about Jeffrey being a psychopatient, which all those scenes, you could take them completely out of the movie and just say, oh, yeah, he was he was admitted to a a psych ward ah like like last year. That's all you need to say. You don't need to show all these like weird scenes of like a guy smoking and putting liquid down his throat. Yeah.
Speaker: I don't know. they're they're For everything that the movie does right, it does equally the amount of things wrong, if that makes any sense. like Well, i ah go go ahead. please No, no, no. I'm just saying, like it when it all like evens out, I don't mind the movie. I just think it's very misguided. like i just like i feel like if it was probably, listen, let's be honest, it was probably very rushed.
Speaker: to ah to to production because of the success of the Blair Witch Project. So maybe they didn't think about all the things that they could or couldn't do. um And, you know, i will say that the missed opportunity of fucking the one from 2016 calling it Blair Witch, do you want to know what they originally called that movie? And what we would have gone and what we would have experienced is that originally they just wanted to release that movie as called The Woods. And people would go into that movie not knowing was a Blair Witch sequel and we would have gone in theater. That's interesting.
Speaker: and we would have been blown away but instead they called it Blair Witch and we're all like oh I guess it's a Blair Witch movie that's that movie maybe we'll save it for another day but like ah with with all of these sequels to the Blair Witch and all of this lore that they build I just feel like they're just missing the mark on like a fucking bull that's just it like and you you know what like maybe the Back to what you were saying about speed, right? This was slapped together for for for a pretty big price tag, we might add. But you know slapped together, they knew they were going to make a lot of money on it no matter what just because just because of what they had already built on. But the first film was not slapdash. It was not quickly put together. It was a whole new type of project. It took them a lot of time. It was bold. It was daring. It was a shot in the dark.
Speaker: Who knows what would have happened with that movie? And that is, that's the magic that keeps getting lost in these things. And like, you're going to have to be thoughtful with it if you want to do another, which brings me to my next point in a year, Andrew, will be watching the new Blair Witch Project, which has put its release date as September 2027. And I'm looking at the Variety article about this right now. Plot details have not been revealed, but Lionsgate chair Adam Fogelson has referred to the film as a new vision that will reintroduce this horror classic for a new generation. I don't know. Yeah, we'll see. Dylan Clark, we got his start on YouTube. I don't know anything that Dylan Clark has done, is directing the upcoming Blair Witch Project from a script by Chris Thomas Devlin. The Blair Witch Project, released in 1999, obviously one of the most commercially successful films, earned $250 million, which, by the way, a reminder to everyone, those actors didn't see any of that.
Speaker: um yeah You know, we'll see. We'll see what happens in this new reboot. No one knows anything about it. No one knows if it's going to be the same thing over again? Will it be sort of like a Blair Witch 2016 kind of thing? Will it, who knows? I don't know. It'll be interesting to see where this this franchise goes. But I agree with you. There's so much there.
Speaker: i don't know why you keep doing the wrong thing. I don't yeah get it. and i agree with you And I know that we're not talking about Blair Witch 2016. I get it. But I was watching that one again today too. And I'm like, there's too much sex in this. There's too much of that shit. like It doesn't need to be that. It doesn't need to be any of that stuff. We don't need to go there. It doesn't need to be about these people going and getting wasted and this and everything else. like Just do what you did in the first one.
Speaker: That's it. Show real people under crazy fucking circumstances trying to figure their way out of it. That's what made the first one so incredibly terrifying and so intriguing. So intriguing. like i so i so you know I still love fucking watching it, but I just wish you would make something good again. i don't know.
Speaker: Yeah, I just think that, like, there are a couple moments in this where i think there's, like, there is genius in here. It's just not capitalized on, if that makes sense. Like, i I do like the line, I do like the line, video never lies, but film does. Like, I do like that. It's fair. Like, that's interesting to me. Like, um I thought the really funny line of fucking Jeff is, is, is,
Speaker: as As bad as a ah protagonist as Jeffrey is, there is a really funny line where he's like going through his house at the when they when they arrive. And he's like, oh my God, who made that? It was the pile of rocks. and he's like, oh, I did. thought that hard i thought that was pretty funny. Well, you know what? I mean, maybe that's part of it too. like Maybe...
Speaker: up Did they mean this movie to be funnier than it is? like I don't know. Because they straddle a weird line. Well, yeah. But I mean, like is there like a comedy that like is just not reading for me? like was Was this funnier in 2000? I don't know. Well, I thought it was pretty funny when he was making fun of his his fellow townsfolk and he was like, oh, the gene pool doesn't run too deep, don't dive in so fast.
Speaker: still Yeah, epitic but you like and but like even that, i thought I thought that was just so cheap. Do you know? like I mean, if if we think back to to to the first film, like the only person that that they interview in in the original Blair Witch Project that is kooky is ah Mary Brown.
Speaker: That's it. All the rest of the people are normal. Like the mom with the kid outside or you know the old guy buying milk or even like the guys that are fishing. like Yeah, they're two good old boys fishing, but like They're not like total fucking rednecks, you know? Well, and I think that they do do a good job of that part of the movie. Like at the beginning, I do buy a lot of those interviews that they're doing of like the townsfolk, but they abandoned that so quickly. that it's like That's just it. Like yeah they they just flip flop back and forth on each other. And you know what?
Speaker: It just, it shows in the movie. Yeah, this one's an odd one. did you ever Did you ever fall into the whole of ah The Secret of S-River? I did not, and I was about to ask you. So for people that don't know that, tell us what that is.
Speaker: So on the on the VHS tape, because we didn't even have DVDs at this point, um there was a... There was a segment after the credits that if you watched it past the credits, it would tell you, okay, now you need to watch the movie back.
Speaker: Not necessarily in reverse, but watch the movie back and look for the hidden messages. And i this was early 2000s internet. So we're talking about like message boards, like chat rooms, like that kind of shit. Wow.
Speaker: And I went deep and I found all of the clues. Like I knew where all the secret clues were. Like, I don't know if you saw this in the movie. It's the most blatant one. But if you're watching when they're sitting around the fire, there's a flame up, like ah what do you call that? Like a flare of the flames. okay It's only when they're, they're just chatting. You would never look to see it, but it says seek in flames. Oh, and um there is a me in the window of his house, like in, in, in branches that are, you know how like you can see like the branches. outside a little A bunch of little Easter eggs were in there. Yeah. And it's, I think that that's kind of fun. Like that they would do this like, like fun little thing, but like, does it take, ah like, it doesn't take away from like the piss poor management of like the, the store or anything, but like, I don't know, little kid me then, I guess I wasn't a kid. I was a, what,
Speaker: Yeah, sure. But that like intrigued me and it made me like this movie more. Of course it did, yeah. Now that I watch it just as a movie, I understand its pitfalls and like why it's not that great. But like I don't know, when somebody tries to do something different,
Speaker: i I kind of have to applaud it a little bit. At least they tried. Even if they didn't succeed, at least they tried. That's right. I think that's what brings my score up just a little bit on this movie. Do I still think that there's like a lot of bullshit in this? but Yes, but like when I watch any movie from 2000 to 2005, is there a lot of bullshit in it Yeah.
Speaker: Well, of course. Yeah, of course. But I don't know. this This one's a mixed bag for me. um I'm mostly coming out positive, but I understand the frustrations and the pitfalls that you're speaking of. So kind of well Andrew.
Speaker: Andrew, tell me this. What did you rate this mixed bag? You know, I'm going to give Book of Shadows, Bear Witch 2 a four. I think it's above average, but it definitely lives up ah squarely in the 2000s for sure. But I like how it expands upon the witch's lore and and her powers. And I actually like a lot of the leaps they take with the story. You know, at least they tried something different, like I said, ah instead of just reinventing and making it another like run around the woods movie.
Speaker: That is fair. Andrew, I got to tell you, I gave this one a bad score. I gave it a two and a half. And um I thought, God, these people are the scope. You think this is demon house level? for For me, Andrew, to be honest, yeah.
Speaker: ah I'll be honest. i I really didn't like this movie. I tried to talk you out of this, but I couldn't do it I know, I know. but but let me say and i And honestly, i mean though those were early day ratings for us back in the day. if If I had to rate Demon House now, I would have rated it a lot lower. You know what i mean? what What did you rate Demon House back in the day? Do you remember? i don't remember. it was low, though. That was one of our lowest rated movies of all time. Like, now i I would probably give it like a one. You know what i mean? Or like like I did today for that fucking AI movie, like a half a star. Anyways, I said, look, the characters are so insufferable. The story is so convoluted. It's just awful. And I said, it's a shame because, like I said earlier, it's really got a great conceit to start with. It makes the first film very meta,
Speaker: That's very intriguing, but unfortunately, it just turns into something poorly planned and poorly executed. All right, well, that will do it for Book of Shadows Blair Witch 2. We'll be right back with another sequel, Paranormal Activity 2.
Speaker: This is your room. Hunter. Hey, Jacko. Who's that? It's from your kitty. So weird. I totally thought we lost it. Somebody broke in and trashed the house. Christy thought it was a ghost. i know you guys are freaked out, okay? And I'm going to take care of you guys.
Speaker: What's your take on this whole ghost situation? I think it's awesome. This is the freakiest thing that happened to me last night. This is the door closing by itself. my god! Parker! Dad!
Speaker: Ellie! Dad!
Speaker: Paranormal Activity 2, rated R, opens Thursday night, October 21st at midnight. Did you get scared the first time? No? Well, let's get scared the second time because it's Paranormal Activity 2.
Speaker: Matty, tell us all about Paranormal Activity 2. In 2009, you demanded it. Nothing can prepare you for what's next. Just as Daniel and Christy welcome a newborn baby into their picture-perfect San Diego home, everything ancient and uninvited moves in with them. Nanny cams, pool cameras, and a very good dog all bear witness as a demonic presence tightens its grip on the Ray family and sets its sights on Baby Hunter.
Speaker: Every room is watched. Nothing helps. What a description. ah This film was directed by Todd Williams, written by Michael R. Perry, Chris Landon, and Tom Pabst. Produced by Blumhouse, Solana Films, Room 101.
Speaker: distributed by Paramount. Christy Ray is played by Sprague Graydon. What a name. Daniel Ray is played by Brian Boland. Allie is played by Molly Ephraim. Katie is played by Katie Featherston. And Mika is played by Mika Sloat or Micah Sloat. Rated R, 91 minutes long out of the US, released October 22nd of 2010, filmed in Woodland Hills, but it's set in San Diego, California. budget 3 million the gross is one about 178 million worldwide um andrew uh the pa franchise part two tell me about this watch for you
Speaker: Yeah. um It's been a while since I revisited this. We did Paranormal Activity. I don't even remember when. It's been a long time. It's been like a Halloween episode or something. I'm not quite sure, but but you can look it up on our on our on our history. But we have done the first one on this. And I'm i'm on record as being like very scared of that movie. like It really did freak me out the first time I saw that movie so much so that I couldn't sleep the night that we saw it at midnight when when I first saw that movie. So going into Paranormal Activity 2, I had a lot of high expectations. and they're mostly met.
Speaker: Um, I think that this one is interesting because it does, um, take a very simplistic idea of the first one and add on a layer of lore that then continues, uh, to, to, ah to the other ones. But like,
Speaker: I think that they were pretty smart in what they did here with the writing and like how they expanded, you know, the world of paranormal activity and of ah the entity here. um i don't know if you call it a ghost. It's more of like a demon, i guess. in I say so too, yeah.
Speaker: um But overall, um i I like this movie quite a bit. um the In the oeuvre of Paranormal Activity movies, the third one's probably my favorite. um ah But I had kind of forgotten that this is more of a, um what would you call a movie that's not only a prequel, but happens at the same time as the original movie? Like a subsequent prequel? movie you know i mean i have no idea what you call that i've never thought about that before because it's kind of a prequel but kind of happens at the same time as the first movie so just a very interesting way to take it and you know like uh you know one of the writers here chris landon he went on to do many many things that i love like happy death day happy death day to you um freaky like all those quite like those those are really good
Speaker: um And so, I don't know, there's something special in here. i think it's like a little bit of, I like these kind of like ghosty, spooky movies. Sure. I like the idea that this one is not so, i mean, it still concentrates a little bit on someone having a camcorder, but...
Speaker: I do like that it's a little more concentrated on like security footage because then it makes a little bit more sense of why it's recording. You know what i mean? Like, sure. I think that that's like a found footage thing that always people like come back to is like, well, why would you keep recording? And like in this movie, it kind of makes sense because our house gets broken into quote unquote, um, And so they set up security cameras, but then there's also like a new baby in the house. So of course they're going to have have out camcorders and stuff like filming the new baby because like, that's like a thing you do. I don't know. Did you grow up in like a camcorder household?
Speaker: No, not at all. So I, well, well, well, I will say there was a video camera that my dad had, i guess like up until I was very young and then it sort of stopped being a thing. So before, yes, after yeah like that, but after that point, no, it was over by then.
Speaker: So I was like, I asked for a video camera when maybe when I was like, I don't know, 12 years old. Like I just wanted a video camera and I recorded little sketches with my siblings and all these kinds of things. Like that was just like what we did. And so like, it makes more sense to me. If you didn't grow up in that kind of household, i kind of get where people would be like, well, why would you keep recording? Like i I get it. But like, I think they solve this one a little bit more with the security footage. The fact that they take,
Speaker: I don't know, 50 minutes into the movie to check the security footage really frustrated me, I'll be honest with you. Yeah. um But like, what's the security footage if not to check it? I don't know when things start to go crazy.
Speaker: um But overall, I have fun with this movie. I think that... the characters seem likable enough. I think they all kind of fit together. They seem like kind of a, ah it's the the right word's not a broken family, but like a like a ah mixed family. mixed a mixed family, like some stepkids, some like stepmom, but they seem to get along. And like, I don't know, the depiction of of like the family here is pretty well I like like the downtrodden like workaholic dad and how he just wants to be a nerd and likes his pool toys and stuff. i don't know. There's something charming about that. um
Speaker: We can get into my criticism of the film later on. But Maddie, I would love to hear what your initial thoughts are. And I don't really remember if you were a fan of the first movie. So maybe maybe yeah refresh my memory on what you liked about maybe like this idea of the first movie and then tell me a little bit about how you felt going into the second one.
Speaker: Sure. So, like, I'm not a big fan of of the the Paranormal Activity franchise ah for a very specific reason. And it is because I think it asks far too much of the audience. What I mean by this is that in order for the conceit to work, you've really, like, it is asking you to watch almost every pixel of the Mm-hmm. And that is actually impossible. You can't do that. And ah that's tough. It's tough on the eye. It's tough on the brain. I think it's tough on the heart.
Speaker: I think it's um it's it's ah it's a tough thing to pull off with often very little reward. And I think that this this this one does a little bit better than than maybe some of the other parts of the franchise in delivering, of course, near the end. It does start to.
Speaker: um you know i i think and it it so i haven't watched a lot of the newer ones because how many how many are there now there's there's quite a few think there's like seven or eight like yeah and whole oeuvre but they don't all connect back to these movies but i see i see okay because i mean like the these early ones i think it is sort of maybe hard to put yourself back into like oh people had camcorders in and they were recording like every single fucking thing they did um But yeah, I mean, look, I think this one does a little bit better because um the the the way that like a demon wants to get this baby is sort of scary. You know, when it's lift when it's lifting it up out of the crib, that's super creepy. And, you know, the dog barking and all that and the dog dying, which is terrible.
Speaker: um But it's just like like I said, it's just so much of it is just is just that that edging you until like, you know, maybe something happens, maybe nothing happens. Well, I think where i think like maybe where you're struggling is is like a lot of the lore is embedded in some of the dialogue that's not always the easiest to follow.
Speaker: that's And that's true too. And you know I think like some of... you know If we go back to... We've got two films here. Well, no not two films. We have two universes of films where um improv is an important part of what's going on. right Sure. So you've got... you know Forget about the the Blair Witch we just talked about, but...
Speaker: if if we If we allow ourselves to think about the original Blair Witch Project, which is ad-libbed, um it it is it is it is improvised. Same thing here. i'm not Do you know exactly how the scripts work for PA? Is it like they give them ah a sort of a skeleton and then they go in and improv? think so.
Speaker: Yeah. I think that it's like, here here are the beats, but like, you know, don't. You don't have to. Yeah. Yeah. for For this day, hit these beats kind of thing. mix Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, look, you got to have people. Yeah. I've talked about this before. have to have people who are really skilled at doing that. And look, to be fair, I think they're not too bad in this one.
Speaker: Like i i I really do. I think that like they they mostly get it And, you know, look they're working with some some difficult material, you know? like Especially, i would say, Ally and Christy are good at it. I think the dad is the weaker of the quote-unquote actors. he's He's kind of like okay, but it kind of works because, you know, he is, as you said before, he is kind of like that nerdy dad.
Speaker: So it's kind of like it it it it almost works basically. um But you know, like if if we if we if we compare the quality of of improv between those two films again, which I know are are apples and oranges, I'm completely aware. But like, you know, you've got an extremely talented crew of improvers with the Blair Witch Project. I don't think they could ever get enough credit for that, really how good they were. um And I understand that it's different circumstances. They were actually, that the the way that the film was made was very different. I think that a lot of the paranormal activity films, this one included, could be improved if they spent a lot more time working on that um and and making it just feel a little bit more like we're actually catching reality. Because I think if you do that,
Speaker: Maybe the the work that you're doing as the viewer, waiting for those things to happen in the camera, watching with your eyes like you know glued open kind of thing, ah it it it might feel a little more rewarding. Because ah what I'm not saying here is that the film has to keep delivering jump scares to me. It doesn't. um But I do need it to to deliver something a little bit more to me, if if that makes any sense. So, you know, look, this one, I i i didn't hate it. i really didn't. ah But it's' it's sort of like the other PA films for me where I'm like, god I did an awful lot of work there for maybe not as much reward as I was hoping I would get.
Speaker: Yeah, I think this might, we we might have to chalk this on up for like different strokes for different folks type of thing. You know what i mean? Yeah, which is totally fine. Which is what usually happens with you and me, quite frankly. Yeah, because like, I don't know, like I love the idea that I have to like watch every frame. That's great. And like figure it out and like all that stuff. and I actually, what I liked about this movie is that um that they expanded upon is that there are fixed camera angles. And I like that we get used to seeing like these fixed camera angles.
Speaker: And there are certain shots specifically in the child's bedroom where there are multiple mirrors and you kind of have to watch all the mirrors too.
Speaker: And I like that. Freaked me out a little bit because it's been, it's been a while since I've seen this iteration of this, uh, you know, part two. And so I couldn't quite remember where the scares were. And so like watching for those, I got kind of excited again. i don't know. These are kind of movies that get me excited, but I can totally understand where somebody that doesn't want to like spend a lot of time thinking about a silly 90 minute found footage movie doesn't really care. Like I get it. Like I totally do. um But this is like just right up my alley. And I like that they take the time to like show not only the mundane, but show like the crazy stuff too. Like I think it's really funny when they, the dad is like, Oh my God, you guys come and look at this. This is crazy. And the pool thing comes jumping out of the, I'm like, that's so funny. It is. That's great. um i I honestly do think there is a scar there's a scare in this movie that I think is one of the best in all of the franchise because it happens during the day and when you're not expecting it.
Speaker: And that's when Christy is sitting at the kitchen island. She's leafing through a magazine. You don't think anything's going to happen because it's the middle of the day. And you know the Paranormal Activity ah franchise up to this point says only things happen at night. You know what i mean? like That's their thing. Yeah, sure.
Speaker: you know, the crazy things happen at 3 a.m. And so she's sitting at the kitchen island. And when all of a sudden, all those cabinets just explode open. Yeah, that's pretty crazy. That freaked me out. And I, but then like,
Speaker: As good of a scare as that is, it's not used to its potential because why would you not then say to your husband, look at this, how can you prove this? Yeah, sure. And I was like, no no no, no, you can't, you can't say beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is what's going on because this happened on camera.
Speaker: And so that's what frustrates me about this movie is like, why, like I said earlier, why have security footage if you're not going to watch it? Or why have a ring camera if you're not going to use it? And that's why I agree down because I don't ever use it. Yeah, I mean, you know, but I mean, look, like, you know, like I said, it's, it's, um, this one is, I, I, I think this one is likable.
Speaker: I do. Yeah. And and there, are there, there are scenes in it that are ah pretty good. you know, there's there when they get dragged down the stairs. Yeah. Yeah. when the toy train is going like that, you know, it was super spooky that like, you know, got my goosebumps going kind of thing. So, you know, there there are parts of this that I think, you know, work really well. And there just parts of it that, you know, it's just it's kind of, it's it's nothing specific to this film. I think it's specific to the franchise for me.
Speaker: And i I do like that they build upon like the sister relationship and they kind of go into, those in our house when our house burnt down and when we were kids and i just remember you being scared all the time. And then like, ultimately the dad fucking passes on the demon to to Katie.
Speaker: And then you kind learn, you kind of learn that that's what the whole first movie is about, which I was like, oh, I kind of forgot that this was a ah prequel-ish movie because halfway through the movie we get that footage of the very first scene in Paranormal Activity 1 where she pulls up in that Miata and she's like, oh you got a camera and da-da-da-da-da. And I was like, oh, i forget that this is kind of like a pseudo-prequel-ish. Yeah. Because then it ends after the first one. i think it's kind of i I always thought that the endings of the Paranormal Activity movies, they never can understand how to stick the landing. Like, they never can like... be like Because I always hate that title card at the end where they're like and Katie and Hunter were never seen again they're still at large. And I was like, okay, we could have done without that. And like little corny. I think, yeah, I think there are some like corny moments in this. um I hope that one day we get to watch part three because it is my favorite of, of these original trio. I guess, I guess the first four are kind of like all the connected ones and then it kind of goes off from there. But like, I don't know. I found some charm in this movie. Do I think it's kind of cheesy? Of course I do. I think it's like when Katie shows up at their house at the end and she breaks the dad's neck. I was like, okay, like, yeah, a little too much. that but that little tight yeah
Speaker: But like up until that point, I still think it's kind of spooky. It's a haunted house movie. Who doesn't like a little haunted house every once in a while. And I like, and I like that this one is not just, it's not just poltergeist. it's an actual like demon with some sort of agenda.
Speaker: Yeah. I like that. I think it's interesting, but um I don't know. I've always thought that the paranormal activity movies, if taken out of the found footage realm and put into like an actual like, set up movie, like an actual like thought through, scripted, like trying to figure out like what's going on could really work. And so i'm I'm waiting for that day for them to be like, we can let go of the fun footage of all of this and actually just like make a movie about like what does this demon want and how did it become to be... without having to scour security footage for hours. I season i think that we are due for a good new haunted house movie.
Speaker: Yeah, agreed. i i think that that would would do us all very well. I think we've we've had some, you know, thanks to Mike Flanagan, we had some great, you know, haunted house TV shows. Thank God. and Those were, you know, really well done and everything else. What's the last really good haunted house movie that we got?
Speaker: Oh, God. I can't really think of it right now. The only one I can think of is where they went down and they they dove into the deep house. But that wasn't really hot. That was a house underwater. So I don't know if that was necessary. So in other in other words, it's it's been too long. We need something like that again. um and And I agree. and It would be interesting to see this that you know happen outside of the the only um the only conceit that it relies on. I've said that word a lot today, but it's a good word. The only conceit that it relies on, which is the found footage, you know, that is, right you know, it's studying the paranormal activity. That's, that's how you're doing it. Um, but you know, maybe something new would, would do the franchise. Well, paranormal activity outside the box. i Well, I am, I am in the middle of writing my script catacombs. So there you go, Andrew, it's time. but It's time. Andrew, what did you rate paranormal activity to?
Speaker: Yeah, here, I think we forgot to say this in the last one, but here at Frege the 13th Horror Podcast, we judge on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. So I give Paranormal Activity 2 a five. I said, these movies, especially the first three, are always going to scare me a wee bit.
Speaker: The cameras, for the most part, make sense, and I like where they build upon the family lore leading in and out of the first one. And I raised my score just a little bit. I gave it a four. And I said, look, the PA franchise asks a lot of the viewer in each volume. They each demand constant observation of the mostly banal with the tittering hope of seeing anything in the camera's view. Part two is no different, but the story is certainly disturbing.
Speaker: Cool. Well, that does it for horror in the movies. We'll be right back with a fun game that I've devised. It's called Who's Watching Me? Do you have a boyfriend?
Speaker: No. You never told me your name. Why do you want to know my name? I want to know who I'm looking at
Speaker: What did you say? Well, folks, that was episode 168 of Frygay the 13th Horror Podcast. But before we go, as always, Andrew's got a game for us. And as he just said, this one is called Who's Watching Me?
Speaker: we're going to find out. Andrew, tell us all about the game you've created. So I'm going to give you three clues that will allude to who's watching you. And these, i will say, are all celebrities. Okay. So a celebrity is watching you and you don't know it. But there are clues and you have to try to figure out who the celebrity is. Got it?
Speaker: Number one, Zac Efron. No, i did I purposely did not include it because I didn't want fantasies of Zac Efron watching you. All right. All right. Here we go. Round one. Okay.
Speaker: whoever is watching you only monitors your house during business hours. At exactly 5.01, the camera shut off. Apparently spying on you doesn't include overtime. Clue two.
Speaker: You discover whoever is watching you has rerouted every camera feed in your house through a server mysteriously labeled Truvies Beauty Shop. And clue three, you finally find the surveillance van.
Speaker: It's parked outside and the headlights are so large you can't believe you never noticed it before. Who's watching you? Oh my God. Say the name of the beauty shop again.
Speaker: Truvy's Beauty Shop. What is that fucking from?
Speaker: what is that from?
Speaker: Andrew, I don't know Tell me. This is the newly, dearly departed Dolly Parton. Oh, yeah. Duh. Duh. I didn't even think of her. I was thinking of something horror.
Speaker: Business hours, nine to five. Nine to five. Truvy's Beauty Shop from Steel Metnolias. Yes, of course. Large Headlights. I think you can know where that came from. Yes, exactly. Oh, that was a really good one. God, rest in peace, Dolly. Sweet love. God love her. Truly the best American. The best American ever created. My God.
Speaker: All right, your next one. i think there are six rounds, by the way, but um I'm really proud of this game, so just like go with me here. Fuck yeah, please. All right, round two. Whoever hacked your security system has somehow programmed to monitor your food deliveries, and they are especially interested in your Indian restaurant orders. Okay.
Speaker: Clue two. You don't find cameras in your bedrooms or bathrooms, but instead in a storm drain across the street. Oh, shit. Clue three.
Speaker: Last night you caught this person watching the feed. You're not sure, but it looks like they may have come from another planet. Who's watching you? Is it Tim Curry?
Speaker: You're right. Tim Curry. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. i thought that was some good clues in that one. oh rest in peace, Jim Curry. No more dead people, I promise. Oh, God, please. I just had to include them because we just we just lost them. so All right, your next one.
Speaker: Someone has hacked your doorbell camera, but it will only identify visitors who are offering margaritas, and it only turns on after 12 at night. Okay.
Speaker: Whoever is watching you has also put a tracker on your card. But the second you drive under 50 miles an hour, they receive emergency alert. And clue three, you found a cryptic note in your mailbox signed Gracie Lou Freebush.
Speaker: Who's watching you?
Speaker: What's the slow thing about if you go under 50 to get an alert? Is this, um is it Sandra Bullock? It is Sandra Bullock. You know what's funny?
Speaker: I just watched, um what do you call it? Practical Magic. Practical Magic. I we just watched it the other night. Yeah. Getting ready for the sequel. All right. um Round four. okay Someone has installed cameras throughout your house, but they're only activated when you're having karaoke nights.
Speaker: Okay. all right. Your facial recognition system has stopped recognizing your face. It simply asks whether you were born naked.
Speaker: Okay. You finally locate the hidden camera. It's tucked behind a photograph of a woman named Michelle. And for some reason, the camera keeps telling you, you better work. It's RuPaul.
Speaker: RuPaul. It's RuPaul. All right. Three more to go. Round five. Someone has been watching you sleep, but they've edited all eight hours into a glossy limited series starring Sarah Paulson.
Speaker: Oh my God. Your doorbell camera is corrupted and can no longer tell the difference between all of the brown haired, blue eyed up and coming men at your door. And clue three, you finally discover who's watching, but before you can confront him, he's moved on without giving you a satisfying ending. Ryan Murphy.
Speaker: Yeah. Your favorite producer of all time. There he is right there. Also, God, ah I wish I wish he could collect all eight hours. That'd be great because I i get about maybe six on a good night. Jesus. yeah All right. Two more to go.
Speaker: This one. Someone has been monitoring your house, but the surveillance logs are written in eyeliner and bizarrely traced back to Middletown, Ohio. Okay.
Speaker: Clue two, you find hidden cameras tucked in your couch cushions. And clue three, you finally figure out that this person has also been stalking you on Grindr, always asking about your sexual vices. JD Vance.
Speaker: yeah Yeah, you got it. Vance. That's it. um I'm pretty good at this game. It's pretty good. All right. And your final one. Someone has been watching you through sending cryptic messages appearing on your porch. They all seem to be launched there with a mini Koosh ball attached.
Speaker: Hmm, okay. Clue two, you discover a second camera outside. Whoever has planted it is disguised and and as an enormous, sorry, whoever planted the camera, it is disguised as an enormous baseball and seems to be insisting there is actually no crying in surveillance. Okay.
Speaker: And finally, clue three, you trace the signal overseas. Your stalker has apparently been watching you from Ireland this whole time. it is rosie It's Rosie O'Donnell, my friends. Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker: Yes, i I gave you all people that were in the news lately. Yes. Oh, Andrew, that was a really fun game. Good job. i liked that one quite a bit. I was very proud of myself. I think that's the best one you've done, to be honest. That was really good.
Speaker: so Well, you know what? That's what we do here for you at Friday the 13th. We still put our brains to work to bring you the best in horror podcasting. That's what I said. That's what I'm sticking to. And that's what you agree to when you leave us five stars on your favorite podcast. Thank you.
Speaker: Please. And folks too, if you, if you've left a review, that's awesome. If you haven't go, go do that. But also if you are thinking about maybe becoming a patron, why don't you, it's only a dollar, dollar a month. We we literally don't want you to do the other levels. So please don't, um, dollar a month is all it takes. 12 bucks a year keeps making sure that we can pay for all the stuff we need to pay for with this show. So if you want to do that, you can go to www.frygay13.com slash support.
Speaker: And, you know, we just, we really want to say like, thank you so much for ah keeping us in your in your podcast player. And thank you so much for keeping listening all these years. Even if you've been a listener from the very beginning, we can't stop saying thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker: But, you know, what we really want you to do And what we really need you to do is at the end of every day when you're laying your little head down to go to sleep on that pillow is I want you to hurry up and open those eyes wide right before you go to bed and just go ahead and laid.
