Transcript
Speaker: I gave 13th horror podcast is a proud independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit fregay13.com. Maddie, you can't sit with us.
Speaker: Andrew, it's literally our podcast. And yet somehow you showed up wearing a Scream t-shirt? Groundbreaking. Excuse me, you're wearing Friday the 13th merch.
Speaker: Vintage Jason, there's a difference. Fine, sit down. We have to gossip. Oh, I'm sorry. i didn't realize we were the Regina Georges of Spirit Halloween. Somebody has to maintain standards. Okay, fine. Let's talk horror popularity. Who can sit with us?
Speaker: What about The Exorcist? Reagan, desperate for attention. One little possession and suddenly she's projectile vomiting a foreign audience. Freddy Krueger. Talks too much. Absolutely convinced he's the funniest person at the party.
Speaker: Ghostface. Oh, you mean the girl who keeps reinventing herself every few years so she so people don't forget about her? Jason Voorhees. Quiet, mysterious, great of our body.
Speaker: He can sit with us. Of course he can. Pennywise. Weird theater kid energy. Oh, absolutely, actually. Annabelle? o Failed influencer. Hasn't done anything herself in years and somehow keeps getting movies.
Speaker: Wow. What? We're horrible people. No, no, no, no. We're just popular. It's episode 167, Popularity is Terrifying.
Speaker: am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom. I'm Marjorie Greene, and I approve this message. To save America, stop socialism, and stop China.
Speaker: Faith of mine, we honor thee from life to death to life.
Speaker: in real life. Doubters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. Horror in the movies. Where are you gonna go?
Speaker: Where are gonna run? Where are you gonna hide? Nowhere. Because there's no one like you left. What do we want? Justice!
Speaker: When do we want it? Let's go! What are you waiting huh?
Speaker: I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. sometimes
Speaker: Are you one of the cool kids in school there could be a downside to being popular Nicole Brewer is here now to explain how that popularity could take a toll on you what later in life. Yes, that's what they say.
Speaker: so Being in the in crowd is you know beneficial in some ways right. Welcome back to Fry Gay the 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Matty. And I'm Andrew. And if this is your first time with us at Fry Gay the 13th Horror Podcast, we are the podcast that chats all about horror. Horror in real life and in the movies from a queer perspective.
Speaker: And we are back today with our 167th episode. ah This one talking all about popularity. Um... And, you know, look, Andrew, as as two podcasters doing this for, you know, over eight years now, um we know a little bit about popularity, you know.
Speaker: or the lack of. Yeah. You know, like, I mean, we've been fighting for 400 reviews for eight years. Did we hit that yet? Are we over 400 reviews yet? 393. Oh, and see how popular we are? Isn't that that popular? Listen.
Speaker: popularity. Look, it can be bad, but it can also be good. There can be some good things about it. We're going to talk all about that today. We've got two ah two films that are perfectly suited for this. Heathers.
Speaker: I remember that one from 89 and the in crowd, which you might not know, Andrew, but was nominated for best screenplay at the 2000 Oscars. So don't don't don't do this. Don't do this.
Speaker: No, it was. It was nominated for Best Music and i'm going to Listen, we're going to get into movie reviews later. I'm going to convince you of things that you didn't think that you realized, and we'll get into that later. But right now, we're talking about horror in real life.
Speaker: Maybe. Well, later on, we'll talk about the Oscar-nominated film, The In Crowd. But in the meantime, ah talking about popularity. ah You know, I was thinking this morning about when I started to think about popularity in my own life.
Speaker: And I remember when I was a kid and we used to go to the the the football games on Friday nights um at and in Hobart, Indiana at at Bricky Bowl, famous Bricky Bowl for the Hobart Brickies.
Speaker: We would go there on Friday nights and like I was still young. So, of course, I went with my parents. But there were friends of mine that would like, OK, so in Bricky Bowl, which is the football stadium and that's what they called it. There's like a lot of other football stadiums. There's the football field and there's a track that surrounds it. Right. And like during football, because it was a multi-use complex, whatever.
Speaker: During football games, like kids would would pretty normally go down there and like walk around the track. And like that's just like where you hung out for whatever reason.
Speaker: And I remember the first night that I went down there and like hung out with like these people that I thought were my friends. They really weren't. But um I remember like literally telling my parents that I was popular that night. and What? and Yeah. Yeah. Because it just like it made sense in my head. Like, oh if I if i ever get a chance to go down there and hang out with people.
Speaker: that must mean that I'm popular. Like for me, it was like a tick box exercise. like oh, that's what that means. Okay. So if you're popular, you hang out down there. So I guess for me, being popular was always like, well, what actions do you get to do because you're popular? What group do you get to be with because you're popular? And it's it's interesting to think about And of course, it's kind of you know funny too, but you know How we think about the mechanics of popularity in our lives, what does popularity, like when did you first clock that popularity was a thing that you were concerned with? Do you ah do you have any sense of that?
Speaker: For yourself? I mean, i think i think, honestly, like definitely high school. like I think that that's when popularity clicked in. But like let's let's be very, very clear here. i My graduating class was 50 people. So like it it was not hard to be, quote-unquote, popular. i hate I'd hate to be the unpopular one, a group of 50. Jesus.
Speaker: I think that... like in In my high school, it was really about two groups of people. like it was It was kind of like the sporty people and then like the more um like creative people. like That was kind of like the two cliques. So it really wasn't necessarily about popularity. It was more about like what group you belonged in. Okay.
Speaker: um And I kind and it weirdly enough for me, I kind of straddled both lines like I tried to be a sporty kid. i just listen when it comes to sports, I am mediocre at all of them. I do not excel in any of them, but I don't, but I'm, but I can't not play any of them, if that makes any sense. Okay, sure. And then when it comes to creative things, I'm actually really creative. I i really excelled in writing and English and, and those kinds of things. And so like, I kind of straddled the weird line of like both things. I don't think I was ever super popular, but I don't think that I was ever like not, not known.
Speaker: Yeah. You know what I mean? okay so Fair. But what about you? um Yeah, I i think ah my because I had a bunch of siblings that had come before me. oh you have that going for you. Yeah. Yeah. I i think that like i I already had like a popularity like in the door kind of thing.
Speaker: And so because of my last name, like people already knew who my brother was and then, you know, who my, who my sister was that they had been friends with her. And so it wasn't quite as like hard for me to like, I don't know how else to say this, like be popular. um And like looking back on it, I i think like,
Speaker: um i I think I found ways to be popular through my, like you, like through my creative talents. And so I was very involved in theater. And so like, ah you know, people started to kind of know me for that. Eventually we used to have these things, these these annual, we would just call it the talent show. And so the talent show was like, like anyone could be in the talent and show. If you like played an instrument, if you sing a song, if you did comedy, like any, anyone could basically audition to be in it. And then it was actually the the director of the choir that that ah that that ran that. And so ah for, I think for three years, I was the MC of it ah with with with various people. And like the MC was like, it was like a ah big thing back then. So if you were the MC of the talent show, you could like, you know, kind of do kind of whatever you wanted in the interstitial scenes between acts.
Speaker: And so when when I started doing it was like when we started to really push the envelope and like do and like do some crazy things on stage. And one thing that we did actually my sophomore year was we had two girls kiss in one of our seats.
Speaker: Oh no. And was a, I mean truly, like I got called to the office for it. Like it was huge. It was huge. And I think when I did that, um I think because i I was playing Jerry Springer. It was like a Jerry Springer show. Got it. Yeah. People fucking loved it. They loved it. And like all like even like the jocks were coming up to me at school and saying like, oh my God, you're so funny. All that kind of stuff.
Speaker: So it was like a different kind of popularity. started to kind of like engross itself. And um I don't know, you know, it's it it's interesting looking back at it all. And and it's interesting now, I think, and I don't know if you feel the same way, but like, you know, now, of course, in your forty s you you, I won't say you, I care so much less about being popular. than like than than your teenage self could have ever imagined. you know And I could, be like beyond this, like you of course, I always hope that people listen to our show. And you know like if i'm if I'm doing something for for an organization that I work with, I'm i'm hopeful that my persona being there or the things that I do can help draw people in. Of course, I hope that. But other than that, like how i how I consider the ways that people think about me, that has that has diminished so much as I've gotten older. And I think that's a pretty common experience, I would say. Would you say it's the same for you?
Speaker: ah Yeah, to a certain extent. I mean, i think that... I think that when we first started, you know, I, I agree with you on the, on the high school level of just trying to understand like where you fit in and like trying to figure out like, Oh yeah, sure. Like what, what style of popularity you wanted, because it's funny when you talk about being the MC of the talent show, I was the person taping the talent show. like That was like, you know what i mean? Like it's just like a different, a different mentality of like what you wanted to be. And I, I think that when we first started this show,
Speaker: I was concerned about being popular on the internet and about trying to get our show out there and trying to be like a horror person and like trying to like, I don't know, just trying, trying so hard to like push because the internet is such a succubus of of,
Speaker: of a place where you're just trying to find like your little tiny footing into a world of people that don't give a shit about you until they do. Like it's, it's, it's very strange. And so like now, like, you know, we, we talked about it now eight years later, i post on the internet. If it gets traction, fantastic. I will interact with it. If it doesn't,
Speaker: I don't care. like you know what I mean? Like, it's like, I mean, i' I'll be honest. I'm glad for that because like, ah yeah like, like we've always said from the beginning, like this is supposed to be fun. And like, if this, and like there have, you know, over the course of time that we've done this, there's definitely been times I think for both of us where it's felt like, oh, fuck, this is a lot of work sometimes.
Speaker: But like, you know, it's supposed to be fun. And like, if people like it, great. And if they don't, okay. So we're going to keep doing it. So we'll see you later, I guess, you know? Yeah, it's just one of those things that like I think that we had to learn it by doing it. You know what I mean? And and now that podcasting is evolving and now all of a sudden you have to have a video and all of a sudden you have to like put reels and and TikToks and and all this stuff. And I'm just like, you know what?
Speaker: I'm not going to do all that. like well it's I mean, especially because... like I don't know. ah there There's not that... there There are so many people saying things. Do you know do you know what i mean? Oh my God. Everyone talks. like that like You know what? No one is... like No one is a fucking... neck like You and I are not experts on anything. And neither are any of them. And I i think i think what might have been...
Speaker: it' and This is actually kind of an interesting discussion, like when when we applied to the podcast. um I think i well ah for for us, and I won't put words in your mouth, but I wonder i wonder if being part of the network, we won't we don't need to name it, but if being part of the network before sort of taught us a lesson on a bit of that.
Speaker: And i I think for me, it definitely did. Because I was like, after we were done with that, I was like, thank fucking God. Like, I am so fucking tired of this, of of jostling around with people who think, who are so incredibly fucking self-important It is, it's bizarre, the truly bizarre how self-important they actually are. And actually, if you really think about it, self-important to the point of being like, like, like almost like harassing.
Speaker: And, and in the case of one person that we definitely know of a bit abusive, to be honest, if you think about, i can't think of her name right now. um What's her name? She went to IU. I can't recall. Anyways, like ah their own self-importance, their own vision of their own popularity.
Speaker: it's It's almost like, do you have any joy? Like, is this even fun for you? Like, is watching a horror movie anything but an exercise in you just like basically wanking off to yourself about what you're going to say about it in 20 minutes. Yes. Either in the article that you're writing or on the podcast that you're about to talk about or video that you're about to make. Like, come on. Like, look, i i I jack off normally, but I don't need to jack off to the things that I say. Like, it's just, it's absolutely, like, to be crude about it.
Speaker: But, like, come on. It's ridiculous. I mean, and I don't want to I don't want to kind of self-flagellate here with us, but, like, when we do our reviews of movies, like we're going to do in a little bit here, it's all for fun. It's all to talk about. It's like how ridiculous like all of this is. It's not to be like, and we think that the angle on the screen meant that, you know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's. Oh yeah. When I think back to some of our earliest reviews,
Speaker: And like there were like there were there were people that would especially pick on me because I didn't like I ah guess what I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of horror films. I just don't. Andrew was far better at that. And I'm far better at like, I don't know, just like bigger vibes or I don't fucking know. But we both come together and create something special. Right. And like and like that's that's a compliment to you because you know so much about it.
Speaker: And I remember like there was one review like, oh, Matt, he doesn't but bla blah, blah, blah, blah. He's totally checked out. And I was like, man go fuck yourself. Like, how about you get on here and do it if you want to? In the meantime, like I'm just on here having having a blast, my friend, you know? Yeah. But I think for others in this field or whatever you want to call it, they're just so concerned about the engagement and about this and about that. And like, yeah, we we ask for reviews every single episode at the end. We always do that.
Speaker: But we do that because that just helps more people listen. That's it. Like they for no other reason. Like we're not sitting here like, you know, holding our dicks waiting for you to write a review. Like that's that's just ridiculous. We know that it's the one single organic thing that helps people find podcasts. And we love to make our community bigger if only because we like the community that we built. Well, that's what I mean.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it's not built around creating an idol like as as as others i love this might. The reviews and Patreon and ah social media is all because we want to hear from our audience. Exactly. literally wanting to build community. It's not about self-flagellation.
Speaker: Oh, Andrew, could talk about that for ages. one We will do another episode maybe on on that kind of stuff. But in the meantime, Andrew... I was just looking at some stuff today trying to think of what what I would talk about with popularity. popularity really means. Did you know, and this is really interesting, did you know that your height could predict how much you earn in the future?
Speaker: I mean, by the amount that the internet talks about men over six foot, I think I i think i could. Yeah. So, listen, from your own home state, Andrew, of Michigan, from u University of Michigan. just I just have to call a little bit of a call out.
Speaker: Abdul El-Sayed. So good. It's wonderful. Honestly, God damn it. When somebody comes forward and just makes sense, you just you just look at your entire life and you just go, I'm why didn't Why didn't we think of that?
Speaker: Yep. Listen, i girl, I've been saying that for since 2015, I've been saying that. And I'm really, really happy that progressives are actually doing very well.
Speaker: and And he is, Abdul El-Sayed is awesome. Yeah. And a far better candidate than Haley Stevens. And I can't wait for him to win in Michigan. So that and and with Zoran Mamdani in New York and AOC, of course, and the scattering of other candidates in America can out with speaking of popularity. Here we go. um Talking about pop up up up
Speaker: it is but i can't wait for him to win so that i can continue to say i told you so ah because it is people like him that are going to make actual change yeah And it will be fantastic to ah believe he's going to be the first Muslim senator. I think he is, um which is incredible. And and and he's a stand up guy. He's a fucking doctor.
Speaker: like Like who was out there saying that he's like, do you know what i mean? Like, come on, this is the perfect person to vote for. so I'm looking forward to watching that go. But back to yeah University of Michigan, which is his alma mater. There was research done. Now, this is old research. I will say this, but I did make sure to look for updated research on it. So I'll talk about that in a moment.
Speaker: But there was a ah research study done at University of Michigan about teen height predicting adult earnings. So I'll read through this for you. I'll do it i'll do it quickly. ah But while prior research has shown...
Speaker: That tall adults, tall adults earn more money. What matters most is how tall a person was as a teenager. And this is from a University of Michigan economist, Dan Silverman. I'm not sure if he's still there because this was a long time ago. But...
Speaker: ah He said that the fact that shorter people are penalized in the labor market does not imply that they are penalized for being short. Much of the wage disadvantage experienced by shorter people can be explained by a characteristic other than adult height, namely height in adolescence. Now, this is going to come around to popularity, I promise you.
Speaker: two adults Two adults of the same age and height who were different heights at age 16 are treated differently in the labor market. The person who was taller as a teen earns more. Being relatively short through the teen years as opposed to adulthood or early childhood essentially determines the wage returns to height. So using data from the U.S. National Longitudinal Survey of Youth and Britain's National Child Development Survey, Silverman and colleagues Nicola Persico and Andrew Possilwaite of the University of Pennsylvania found that each additional inch of height 16 associated with a increase in wages among white American men and increase among white men in Britain, regardless of occupational choice.
Speaker: Isn't that astounding? But when controlling for youth height, the estimated effect of adult height on wages is virtually zero, they say. Moreover, the teen height premium, in quotes, does not diminish much when variables such as family resources, good health, native intelligence and self-esteem are taken into account. The study, which was published in the Journal of Political Economy, included an analysis of men's heights at 7, 11, 16, and 33, but only age 16 influenced future wages, the results show. Among all recorded heights, only age 16 is estimated to have an economically large and statistically significant effect on adult wages. No other height makes an appreciable contribution contribution to the high premium. So look, there's more there if if you wanted. I mean, you you can just go Google this if you like and read whatever you like on it. But I want to make sure we have time for Andrew here too.
Speaker: But basically what the research is pointing to is that if you were tall as a dude when you were 16, the likelihood of you being popular skyrockets. And so because of that self-esteem that you gain because of your own popularity, that carries with you throughout your entire life, gives you increased confidence when you're seeking jobs, when you're doing the actual work, how you speak about yourself, how you sell yourself, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then it corresponds to wages. it's ah like ah ah it really like This is the kind of research that I that i kind of love where it's just like these random things that correlate. And it's so incredibly interesting. Like I said, I did look for some updates on research. And that was the original bombshell, of course, from that 2004 study.
Speaker: um And since then, the field has pushed back a little bit and it complicated that story. So I think, you know, as as time has gone on, the the the findings don't necessarily keep exactly where they are. But they do still show that height is ah at height at the height at so at age 16 is still a predictor of making more in the future. So I thought that was really interesting to think about when it comes to popularity. I am six four I don't know if it's worked for me.
Speaker: I wish I was making more. I don't know. Maybe I am. Who knows? Well, I think that like... I wonder how much, because this was obviously the the research was conducted in 2004, like you said.
Speaker: i wonder how much the um the internet and social media has changed that Yeah, fair. You know what i mean? Like as we become increasingly dependent on being online and being in front of screens and those kind of things can be manipulated more um with how you see people. Because I mean, famously, ah you know, as as we know, a lot of celebrities are much shorter than like what we yeah sure them what we that what we ever thought they were in real life. And I wonder if the manipulation of being online has changed that.
Speaker: at all because you can kind of um you can kind of post yourself as taller if that makes any sense i don't know if i'm saying that right but um that's that's interesting it's interesting though like because like it classically in the time that we grew up in the the popular kids were like the basketball players or the football players or like you know the cheerleaders like the the people that were uh big and athletic and stuff and so i I just, I just wonder if that's taken that, I would love to see them do a research study about the popularity of like just online, if that makes sense. Sure. Sure. Interesting.
Speaker: um Speaking on high school popularity, I thought that this I came across kind of a a little thing that I thought was pretty interesting. um High school popularity can feel trivial from the outside, but for teenagers, social status can determine friendships, relationships, belonging, and sometimes whether someone feels safe simply walking down a hallway. I can definitely relate to that. i I remember walking down hallways being like, well, that's somebody I can talk to and that's somebody I can't talk to. I don't know if you have that feeling. Of course. um
Speaker: Bullying frequently and revolves around those hierarchies. Someone is perceived as different, threatens another person's social status, dates the quote unquote wrong person or simply becomes an acceptable target for a more powerful group. Social media has made that dynamic even more relentless. Right.
Speaker: God, i I can't even imagine. I don't know if you've ever thought about this, but if we would have gone to high school during the time of social media, i don't know if I would have made it through. no way.
Speaker: No way. Because I know that I would have been labeled as gay so so soon before I even knew what that meant or what that meant for my life. And not even knowing that being gay is not a death sentence, um would have it like it would have killed me when I was kid, being on social media. it cut well i mean and not Not to mention just like kids being caught.
Speaker: you know, being kids. You know what am mean? Like, I mean, like when when you're a kid, as annoying as it it is for us now as adults, like, yeah, you do stupid shit and you say stupid shit because you don't know what you're doing. And like the idea now that like you could just be recorded at any time. And that's, I mean, and i'm I'm saying a very elementary thing for us now in 2026, but back then, like,
Speaker: No one had a digital camera yet. you You know what I mean? Nobody had phones like this. Nobody had anything. So like we were we were protected in so many ways and and able to be so anonymous. But kids can't do that anymore. So the idea that like your popularity is is sort of constantly being assessed by all the things that are being collected about you because children's lives are basically content now. That's based that's it. and And unfortunately, they are trapped in a cycle where they make their own lives content.
Speaker: that's That's terrifying. i don't i don't I don't know if I would have survived that either. I'll be perfectly honest. Yeah. Just keep keeping going here. Humiliation that once might have ended when a student went home can now continue through texts, comments, photos, yeah group chats, and posts visible to the entire high school.
Speaker: Popularity essentially becomes a form of power, and that power can be used to isolate and intimidate people. and I want to highlight one incident in 2010 with the death 15-year-old Phoebe Prince.
Speaker: It became one of America's most prominent examples of just how devastating that dynamic can become. ah Prince had recently moved from Ireland to massachusetts Massachusetts and attended South Hadley High School, where prosecutors said she endured months of bullying from fellow students. Some of it connected to relationships she had with boys at the school. She was reportedly harassed and ah in school and online, ah called degrading names, threatened and socially targeted by other students. On January 14, 2010, after another day of harassment, including an incident where a student reportedly threw a drink container at her as she walked home, um Prince died from suicide. wow.
Speaker: Six teenagers were later criminally charged, um although the cases were ultimately ended largely through plea agreements and probation. um her Her death became a national flashpoint in the conversation about bullying and helped spur Massachusetts to enact a comprehensive anti-bullying law that later that year.
Speaker: ah The case demonstrated something frightening about teenage social hierarchies. When cruelty earns attention, acceptance, or status within a group, bullying can stop being one person's behavior and become something an entire social group participates in.
Speaker: Did you ever bully anybody? No, i was the bullied. but but i did did Did you ever make fun of a kid or anything like that? I mean, i i mean like I know that you wouldn't have been like a systematic bully, but like, did you ever do anything like that?
Speaker: I mean, I'm sure I did. i think that's like part of growing up is like you try to impress other kids around you by bullying other people. yeah But like that was not my... um That was not my... oh God, what's the word I'm trying to think of? That was like not my food. Like that was not like what I ate to get like what I wanted for my brain. You know what i mean? yeah Like yeah um it was more about...
Speaker: I was kind of that one that kind of like was like, hey, don't don't do that. Like, I don't know. I was more of like a i don't want to say it was like a the social warrior or anything, because I was much too meek, much too meek to be that. But like,
Speaker: um i I was just, I was a really shy kid until, until high school and until high school, i I didn't, I didn't really find my voice until high school. And I think that that was because, growing up, I, you know, famously we've talked about it on the show, but I went to six different elementary schools in six years. like Yeah, sure. Yeah.
Speaker: It was really hard for me to make friends and until we settled down in the mushroom capital of Michigan, for six Michigan, where I got to you know live out junior high and high school. It was really hard for me to make friends. And so I didn't really understand all that until that. So I think I was like, I honestly think I was catching up a lot of the time, if that if that makes any sense. It makes sense. Yeah. What about you? Do you think that you were like a bully to anyone?
Speaker: but No, I wasn't a bully, but but i I definitely, you know, when I look back, I mean, and you know, you have to look back at yourself as a child and, you know, cut yourself some slack, of course. Of course. You know, there there were a few incidents that I look back on where I'm like, oh, wow, I was a real fucking asshole when I did that.
Speaker: And like, I can think of a few people. um there was There was one in elementary school. um Her name was Christy. I remember that distinctly. And a lot of people made fun of her just because she kind of came from the other side of the tracks and, and she, she, she was just herself. And um I definitely made fun of her a couple of times, you know, like with other kids. Yeah. And i I look back on that and I just think, God, you were just so desperate for people to not know anything about you that you did that.
Speaker: Yeah. and And it's all about, it's all about um putting the attention on someone else. It's all the attention not on you. Yeah, 100%. And especially in the ninety s you know, and let us remind our younger listeners when it was not cool to be gay, right? And you know that you are like the biggest cocksucker ever known to man. And all you are hoping for is that no one ever says it out loud. The, the, the classic thing that so many of us did back then was we bullied our own kind. And so, you know, there was, there, there was definitely one, one, um one ah one other gay kid who was you very clearly gay, just like I was, who I definitely a couple of times made fun of too.
Speaker: And like, like imagine that. Do you know what I mean? Like, and like, you know, thank God I can forgive myself for it, but I hope that person can too, if I'm being honest. And it's it's so weird, the things that we will do and we will say to make sure that we are are included in the group that we think we need to be included in. And then if we're not part of that group, then we're going to somehow suffer a consequence. We're going to somehow not survive. Right.
Speaker: um But that's how it was back then. you know it was just It was such a ah ah ah ah different environment. And especially in a city like Hobart, where it was just sort of like doggy dog. you know like we We all knew each other. We all knew each other's families. And I've said this before, but it was sort of like you know no one was ever rich in Hobart. I think we were all so poor that like you you just sort of hate your own kind after a while. It's it's it's what it's what Republicans do to to make... um to to make their elections ah winnable is they they teach poor people how to hate each other, you know, yeah because of whatever reason, whatever reason it might be. That's exactly what was going on there, too. You know, we were just all kind of, you know, but splitting into tribes and and and hating each other whenever we could, which is just pretty sad to think about.
Speaker: so and all When we're all much like so much more alike than we are different. Completely alike. but All of us as kids back then were completely alike. And, you know, and it's a shame because when I when i think about, and this isn't just about school stuff, but when I think about like the really wonderful kindergarten teacher that I had, Mrs. Patrick Lynch. And some of the other wonderful teachers that I had too. You're all you're all itches. Well, it's it's all it's all Balkan names, right? Which is so much of Northwest Indiana. But those teachers taught us such wonderful ways of being. And you know Mr. Rogers taught us great things. And this person taught us great things. But you know when you're a kid, if your brain's not developed, it's hard to remember those lessons. It's hard to remember that you know being a good person means this. It doesn't mean that. And um ah that's just that's so scary about being a kid now. And I don't know. I'm just I'm glad I don't have to raise kids. i can tell you that. My God, because that would be pretty hard these days. My Lord. Yeah, I think I brought it up on this on the show before, but I will never. And this just is a testament to like how ah those formative years can but yeah put a put a thing on your brain ah is I will never forget being made fun of because I didn't have leg hair.
Speaker: Like, and they were like, sure. Right. what What are you? What are you a girl? Do you shave your legs? And I was like, I know I just have light hair. like what to tell Sorry. Sorry. I just woke up today, everybody. I'm sorry. I'm breathing. Oh, my God. How crazy.
Speaker: Okay, so I want to fast forward and bring this into kind of like modern day popularity. Sure. And I want to talk about, you know, some things that we've hit on before, but that's internet culture. And that's ah kind of like viral challenges to like make yourself like popular um on the internet, of course, like because...
Speaker: god And this is what this is what bums me ah out about like modern day, like just the way that we think is like, if you're popular on the internet, does anyone really know you?
Speaker: you know Yeah, sure. um But I just want to read you a little bit. um ah Social media has turned popularity into something that can be counted in real time. Every like, view, and share becomes a little hit of validation. And for some users, especially younger ones, that validation can become almost worth, um almost at at any risk.
Speaker: For over the past decade, viral challenges have encouraged people to climb skyscrapers. Think about those people that were just on the fucking top of the um ah what what's the tall building in New York that they got engaged because they were like people.
Speaker: people um They surf on top of moving trains, consume dangerous substances, or intentionally cut down their own oxygen, um all in pursuit of internet fame, not even real fame. You can be so alone and be internet famous. Isn't that weird to think about?
Speaker: it's It's sad. Yeah. um Psychologists have long noted that adolescents are particularly susceptible to peer approval, and social media amplifies that pressure by putting popularity on public display for everyone to see.
Speaker: One of the most disturbing examples is a so-called blackout challenge. Have you ever heard of this? I didn't hear about this until I read about it. i can only imagine what it is. um In which participants intentionally asphyxiate themselves until they lose consciousness.
Speaker: Multiple child deaths have been linked to the challenge over the last year over the like over the years, Anderson of Pennsylvania More recently in
Speaker: A family of nine-year-old Jacqueline Blackwell from Texas publicly shared their daughter's story after she died while attempting the social media challenge, hoping to warn other parents of the danger of chasing viral attention.
Speaker: Even as platforms remove this content, new dangerous trends continue to emerge, demonstrating how the pursuit of popularity online can quickly become a matter of life and death.
Speaker: Another tragic example came in 2023. So all these stories are within the last five years. We're not talking about the early times of the internet anymore. We're talking about now, which is really scary. um In 2023, when 13-year-old Jacob Stevens of Ohio died after attempting the viral Benadryl challenge, ah the social media trend encouraged participants to to take dangerously large amounts of the antihistamine an attempt to...
Speaker: Yeah, in an attempt to hallucinate, while often while friends recorded the results. According to his family, Jacob swallowed a large quantity of Benadryl while his friends filmed him. He was hospitalized and a ventilator for nearly a week before he died Um, the FDA has already, well, should I even read this part? Because the FDA is kind of just defunct at this point, given our, but you know, that, that, that, that does remind me of like, talk to me, for example. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Um, because but so so much of that movie is, is about popularity about, Oh, let me do it now and and get me, know, cause they're all filming each other for, for social media within the film. It's the same kind of thing.
Speaker: Yeah, it just shows that, like, you you have... God, I don't even know. I don't even... Like, I'm... Like you, I'm i'm not going to have kids. Like, it's at this point, it's just not in the cards for me. Yeah. and But, like, I think of some of my friends that have kids, and for the most part, many of them are pretty young. i mean, i think I have maybe one friend that her child is getting into, like, a preteen status.
Speaker: But, like... I don't even know how I would be begin to talk about them, about the internet and about how to regulate them and like not thinking that the internet is the end all be all.
Speaker: You know, it's it's very strange to think about. You know, I think at this point, like... you know i've I've said so stuff like this before and and I'll just continue with it. like ah You don't need to have children.
Speaker: right like that I'm sorry, but like this is not the 19th century. you You don't need to have children. If you look around, there's plenty of people. Exactly. If you have children, it is a choice. like I don't care about the biological imperative. I don't care about any of that. if That's such bullshits bullshit. It's bullshit.
Speaker: So like your if your body's talking to you, whatever, okay, great. But like you are you are not required to have a child. right So there's the base. So that means that if you are having a child, you are choosing to have that child. That's it.
Speaker: So if you choose to have that child in today's day and age, then you also take on the responsibility of raising that child to be a good human being. That is your fucking duty. And so that does mean that like yeah you are you have to teach them how to navigate all of these things in front of them while they are in your care. You have to. And that does include social media. And unfortunately, i mean, think about it.
Speaker: I'd say probably 80% of parents this is just, like look, I'm not an expert once again. But like I would say just out of the people that I know, 80% of parents aren't doing that. They're not there. Instead, they're just abandoning their children to social media because that's like it's almost like a new babysitter for them so that mommy can go do whatever they want to do. Oh, time for my time for my nightly wine on the balcony. You know what i mean? Like, oh, it's OK. The fucking Johnny's on Instagram. Like, no, yeah honestly,
Speaker: And look, I'm speaking from a place of privilege because I don't have kids. I understand that. But if I had kids, especially because I work in social, you want to know what would be true in my house? And like I can't control them everywhere. I get that. But in my house, you're not going to be on social media.
Speaker: That's it. Fucking period. Because I know how dangerous it is. And I don't want you there. And I'm going to tell you why it's so dangerous. We're going to talk about it. I'm going to show you the dark sides so that you understand how terrible it can really be.
Speaker: And maybe more parents should do that. But on top of that, because it's not just about the parents, maybe we should regulate social media companies more. There you go. that's it's honestly it's honestly why I was so proud of it. And I don't know how this is going to have long term effects, but like I was very proud of Australia for putting that into place where England now as well.
Speaker: Yeah, 16 and under, no no social. which and like can You can skate around it. like I'm not trying to like pretend that like this is an end-all, be-all, but least at least at least they're trying.
Speaker: Well, I mean, like look, you know teens are going to figure out a way to get around it no matter what, and and we all know that. But that's almost not the point. the the The point for me is, okay, there's a law on the books now that now those social media companies have to start regulating it in a different way. And and that's and they and they have and they have to have a responsibility.
Speaker: That's just it. So that's why these things matter so much. i I hope that Ireland gets it soon because I think that we need it. ah America should do it too. ah Honestly, everywhere should because these tools are so dangerous. Popularity and the um the the the how the the dark side of popularity can drive things. Just like I you know i was saying back there.
Speaker: you know Look, i I hope people think I'm a good person these days, right? But I just told you a couple examples from high school, ah from elementary school and high school of, you know hey, when popularity caused me to not be a very good person.
Speaker: That is the reality, right? And and those are trust me, that that's some milquetoast shit. you know Think about all the examples, ah you know the ones that you talked about with, what's her name, Phoebe Prince, You know, how, how popularity from drove those children to do terrible things to her such that she felt the only way out of it was to kill herself.
Speaker: Like, come on, this is, this is dark stuff. If you're going to have a child, guess what? You, you need to help your child navigate that. Yeah, it's it's ah it's a very tough world. And especially, you know, these days when we're finally seeing ah the fissures of MAGA and like what that did and that popularity did and continues to do because it's it's not over. Whatever end.
Speaker: i hope so. um But I think it just shows that like popular figures can get away with literally anything. And I think that that's where we need to start holding people accountable.
Speaker: um I don't know. it's it's a tough It's a tough thing because everyone wants to be well-liked, but what they do with that is really either good in the form of community or help or you know all of that, or really dangerous, like what we see in modern day politics. Yeah, I think what sort of freaks me out too is like when people try to use their popularity for good, right? It gets labeled as cringe so quickly.
Speaker: And it's like, what what is that about? Like, yeah why why are we so quick? to see earnestness and people who want to help, why are we so quick to see that as cringe?
Speaker: Like why why why? Why do we do that? That's just such a such a shitty part of of who we are as humans. It's really strange in this in this era right now. It's bizarre. Because we live in a very selfish world. We've they've been world two we've been we've been raised we've been raised to be very selfish. We've been told you deserve this. And um sometimes we don't.
Speaker: And we need to self-check ourselves a little bit and make sure that we're not only helping ourselves, but helping others. And that's really important. And it's taken me personally a really long time to get there, but I am there now.
Speaker: And I understand that like it's it's more important to make everyone happy than to just make yourself happy. That's true. Amen.
Speaker: What a perfect place to leave that discussion, Andrew. Perfect. um Listen, um if you listen to Frygate the 13th, you're popular. Congratulations. You're going to be popular. You're popular with us. and um And we hope that we're popular with you. You know, man. And if we are popular with you, leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Right, exactly. Join our Patreon, Harry. One dollar a month. Listen, folks, we'll leave it there ah for our Horror in Real Life segment. and We'll be right back with Whatcha Been Watching, Bitch.
Speaker: Let's all go the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat.
Speaker: And we're back with what you been watching, bitch. What you been watching, you queen bee bitch. Yeah, that's right. Listen, this is the segment where we talk about the things that we have been watching, listening to, reading, whatever.
Speaker: um And we each bring a few to the table. So, Andrew, tell me what you have been watching, bitch. So, yeah, um I finally got around to watching Masters of the Universe. Cool. ah This is the He-Man um ah you know movie.
Speaker: um And i'm I'm happy to say that it was fantastic. And I'm really mad that I didn't go see it in the theaters. So for all you people out there that didn't go see in the theaters, you're blamed, too. Because if we don't get a Masters of the Universe 2, it's because of us. Oh, my God. Jesus. Good work. Forget yourself.
Speaker: No, I really liked this movie. I mean, it cla it kind of gives like a little bit of... Who played He-Man? And from Red, White and Royal Blue, the Nicholas, I can never pronounce his last name. The Litzinger or whatever. Okay. Okay, cool.
Speaker: Um, and it takes place that he it has like, he, but he starts as like a normal guy that like he, what he grew up on the planet, and not the planet, the land that he man takes place in. He's just a normal guy. And he gets, well, he gets transported to earth to, for safety reasons, kind of like Superman. You know what I mean? It's the man Superman. Um, and this is about him going back to his, uh, his, his, his loop, if you will. Um, and I, I loved it. I thought that, um,
Speaker: Jared Leto actually played a really, I listen, I'm not a Jared Leto fan, but he played a a great, ah God, what's the villain's name? It's not, I always want to say Grayskull, but that's the kingdom. um And Alison Brie played a great witch next to him. i think that, I think that everyone did a great job and it's a really just fun, fantastical awesome adventure movie. um Listen, ah me and me and my husband, Michael, we bonded over that we had the same blanket as kids, that we both had the He-Man blanket.
Speaker: um And he still has his to this day. It's it's in a trunk somewhere, but like, nogger there's like a little, yeah, seriously. um there's like There's just like little things and you know, it doesn't play a little nostalgia into it. I think so, but I still think it was a really fun movie. I hope we get a second one because there's a good um there's a good end sequence and you know, spoilers ahead, minor spoilers ahead for the after credit sequence of ah of a movie that many people didn't see. But um there's a little bit of a hint towards She-Ra coming in in the sequel. I hope that we get a second one, but you know, Go on Amazon. It's an a it's an Amazon MGM, um you know, because MGM, I don't know if you knew this, but MGM is now owned by Amazon. So it's an MGM. um
Speaker: So close go go give it a watch so we can get a second one, please. i hate that i I hate that we have to have Amazon exist. I know, but this is the world we live in now. we we've We've built up billionaires to the point where we can't take them down anymore. so I know. I know. Trust me. I know.
Speaker: ah Listen, my first one is The Odyssey, which is definitely one that you should go see in the theater. Do not be an idiot. um It's great. It is a wonderful film. it is huge and epic. It's um it's ridiculous. and And it's pretty good. You know, there are there are a couple of things about it where I'm kind of like, well, what? Like, the i the the the main criticism that I have of the film is, why does everyone have an American accent? that is Yeah. that That part of it, it just, I don't, and look, I love Christopher Nolan. I'm a Christopher Nolan fan, for sure.
Speaker: just don't get why he made that choice. it doesn't It doesn't make any sense. Like, it just feels wrong to me. Like, if anything, everyone could have just like an an English accent, which I know wouldn't make sense either. I'm perfectly aware of that. But it just feels a bit wrong. like it would fit more. i don't know. it's it's It's weird. I don't know how to explain my my take there, but that part felt strange to me. But other than that, it's a it's a great film. um It is long, but it takes along very quickly. um I when when we went to go see it, I brought like I made us dinner.
Speaker: I made us two dinners like take with us and I brought along like five drinks like like in my bags. I could just have them so I didn't have to get up for anything. And it it was amazing how few of those drinks I went through because I was so like into the film and just, you know, watching and having a good time. And it was, it was great. We saw it 70 millimeter at the lighthouse in Dublin.
Speaker: um I do want to see it again in IMAX because it just feels like you want to see it IMAX. So we're going to see it again there, but 70 millimeter was a, was a beautiful viewing. If you have a chance for that too. So yeah, but but but bla look, it's good. Look, it's already made a billion, like literally it has already made over a billion dollars in the box office, which is insane.
Speaker: um So join the throngs, be be popular with us and go so go see the Odyssey. But definitely just while you can, go see it in the theater. you you you You want that experience. So that's it, the Odyssey.
Speaker: Yeah, it's it's been sold out here for four weeks now on the weekends. So i I want to go see it, but apparently I have to plan ahead of time. So so like like like every viewing is sold out.
Speaker: Yeah, everything passed, like I'd say, like 2 p.m. and That is wild. Wow. i think that you kind of don't remember, but we don't have that many theaters left that have IMAX for that for that matter. Because i yeah I really do want to see it in IMAX. like That's like the the way I want to ingest it. yeah And the only IMAXes that we have left are... ah the AMC downtown, the Regal Webster Place, and the Skokie AMC. And those have all been sold out on the weekends. So I'm well hoping to see it. I hope you get to do that. But if for some reason you just can't, you're going to get a great experience still on on a, you know, quote unquote, normal screen. But I hope you get the chance for it.
Speaker: Yeah, I was. This is funny because ah the Odyssey was um something I was like mildly ah obsessed with when I was a kid. I read I read the story many, many times as a kid. um Never could really get into the Iliad just because of the poem of it all. Yeah, sure. The Odyssey I was obsessed with. So it's cool. You know, I hopefully you like it because the way that they bring it to life, I think, is pretty compelling and interesting.
Speaker: Yeah, I definitely was a kid of like Jason to the auggonauts and and all those. So this is right up my alley. So I hope I get to see in the theater. But I everyone that has seen it has said it's very good. So I'm i'm excited for them. Hell yeah.
Speaker: All right. My next one is the Devil's Mouth. Have you heard anything about this? I has not. Is this ah is this like a shutter thing? This is an Amazon movie. It's ah the newest in the sharky movies. You know, in the summer, we always got to give our get our shark movies during our shark weeks and shark months.
Speaker: um This follows a group of post-grads. um They're all getting ready to go into like the workforce after college. But before they go, they go to Thailand to like go do their thing, which when my early 20s was not a thing I could do. So I can't believe. to these rich people.
Speaker: Can you fucking imagine? like like you're You're from fucking Mesick, Michigan. I'm from Hobart, Indiana. We're going to Thailand for the summer. like Fuck you. ah And they go to... they They hire a guide to take them to this series of caves. And one of the caves is labeled as the Devil's Mouth because kind of as you enter it, it looks like teeth from the stalagmites and the stalactites coming up and down. um But...
Speaker: ah In this course, there has been a storm and the overflow has ah basically sent in a bull shark. And the bull shark oh and and i don't know if you know this, but bull sharks are actually the most um deadly of all sharks. It's actually not great whites. It's bull sharks.
Speaker: um And they're there. I mean, they're still a sizable shark, but they're they're quite a bit smaller than like a great white. ah But and it it hunts these people down it and it's kind of I would say kind of like the descent meets Jaws a little bit because interesting.
Speaker: They're not on boats. They're actually like, i don't know if you've ever done a tour like this, but they're actually just like floating, like they're floating and they just like go through these series of tunnels with like a, with a, ah a guide. Okay.
Speaker: What I will say, ah the all of the ah effects are actually pretty good. um What I will say though, is that these apart from our main character, these might be some of the most insufferable characters I've ever met on screen. That's annoying. that's an And so when you have these kind of characters in a shark movie, you kind of are just waiting for them to die. So it's kind of like, I don't know, it kind of defeats the purpose of like having like a root for people movie when the characters are so insufferable. ah Especially there's this one fucking bitch. Yeah.
Speaker: i wanted her You are ready for this. I wanted her to die so bad that when it actually happens, i was like, well, I can turn off the movie now. so Yeah. um You know, overall, it's an Amazon movie. It's not, you know, it went it went directly to streaming. It has it has Catherine Newton in it. She plays the main character. I'm not sure if you're familiar with her. She was in um just recently Ready or Not 2.
Speaker: um She was also in that um Vampire is a little girl movie. OK. Came out a couple years ago. I remember that one. OK. Yeah. Gotcha. And so ah she's, she's, she's good in it. I think the, I think the movies like it's, it's fine. Like it's one of those movies that's like, i wouldn't have seen it in the theaters, but I'm happy that it's on streaming. It was a fun Friday night romp watch, you know, with with some drinks or whatever. um And so if you're into like shark movies and you're into like the summer vibe, I would definitely give it a shot. That is the devil's mouth.
Speaker: Nice. Cool. My next one is a rewatch. ah Just, I got the yen to do it. You know, When um I think about like like when I do rewatches, like why do I do them?
Speaker: um I do them because they give me comfort, you know, and the last couple of last few weeks have been um just a little stressful. We had a layoff at work, among other things.
Speaker: So I was like, you know what, let's do a comfort show, which is The Sopranos for me. this, ah yeah. So weird that it's mean, listen, it's like how Friday Night Lights is a comfort show for me or a bunch of other shows.
Speaker: um like You just kind of like know what they are and it's fun to kind of explore it again. So I did The Sopranos and I did a full rewatch, just ended it yesterday, actually. And I think this is rewatch four for me, I'm fairly sure.
Speaker: Um, and every time you do get something different out of it. And, uh, and this one, what I think I was most surprised about this time is, and if you don't, if you don't know what the Sopranos is, like, it's obviously about a mafia family called the Sopranos in New Jersey, um, was on HBO for a long time, six seasons.
Speaker: And this time, how, terrible they really are. Really, really, really like it was it was far more pronounced to me this time. And I know that that sounds a little bit silly, but like that is kind of the danger of like mafia films in general. Right. It's like, you know, Tony Soprano is like an antihero that you're somehow rooting for when you watch The Sopranos.
Speaker: in spite of the fact that he is a terrible human being. and they are And everyone in his crew is also a terrible human being. And they're raising children to be terrible human beings and giving them terrible examples. And the people who are around them who are even kind of okay, like Carmela, for example, are enablers of terrible behavior. And they hide it all in Catholicism and in tradition and in Omerta and all these other things. And and family and all this other kind of stuff.
Speaker: And it's just, it's all so untrue. And so I i think this time, in addition to seeing just how how terrible they really were, which I had known before, but it just was really pronounced to me this time. It's also just like a sad warning, like because at the end of, you know, the end of The Sopranos, it's a it's a famous ending because people either really, really like it or they hate it. But guess what? Here's a spoiler. Tony Soprano dies at the end of it. That is what happens. And everyone knows that.
Speaker: And your life is so short. And like, I i also picked up on his age in it this time. Do you know how old he's supposed to be in it? He's in his 40s, Andrew.
Speaker: And so like in season in season six, I think he is, I'm pretty sure he's 47. He's either 46 or 47. ah Maybe 48, I think, if we look up at the timeline. But like, i mean, if your whole life is just being a terrible person and doing terrible things and and it ends, like what is what is the point of that life at the end of it all? I don't know. It's it's crazy. And the show does kind of ask that question over and over again as a show that deals with depression. It deals with therapy. It deals with trying to you know find your way through and and understand your own identity. And, you know, does Tony Soprano ever actually get there? The answer for me is no. I think if he did, if he had actualized as a human being, then maybe he would have stopped all the terrible things that he was doing.
Speaker: But he never does. He never learns a lesson. And if that's the, um I think that's one of the sad lessons of the show. So that was my take from The Sopranos rewatch number four, Andrew. and Look out there, if you've got a a comfort rewatch that you like too that's a bit odd, let us know about it. I'd love to hear what yours is.
Speaker: um I think my next one will probably be ah another one of Friday Night Lights. We'll see. Who knows? Nice, nice, nice. All right. um My last one um is a movie on AMC+. plus It is called Over Your Dead Body. um This is a movie that ah is basically about a couple that are going to their cabin for a a retreat, you know, kind of a a get back to normal. We've been, you know, we've been totally wrapped up in our lives. We need to, like, get back to, a you know, a couple. Sure.
Speaker: One of those one of the of the couple may have some more devious plans for this trip. o ah I just want to read you the cast of this really quick.
Speaker: This is Samara Weaving, with who you know from from or many, many things, including Ready or Not. ah Jason Siegel from oh wow from Everything. Juliette Lewis and Timothy Oliphant.
Speaker: wow So take that for what it is. I don't know why this movie was not in theaters. I don't know why it went directly to AMC plus with little to no fanfare because it's fantastic. It's, it's really good. It's a nice little to thriller that takes like a lot of different ah twists and turns.
Speaker: um And I, I want more people to see it because it was really fun. um And it was really fun to see ah Juliette Lewis and Timothy Oliphant kind of be the, i don't I don't know if you ever saw this movie from a long time ago called California, but with a K. Yeah, yeah. I remember that one. Sure. It's kind of her. It's kind of her. Yeah, it's kind of her from that. Okay, fair.
Speaker: um So it was really fun. i just want more people to see it. That's why I wanted to call it out because i i I stumbled upon it with my AMC Plus membership. Literally, I was like, oh, what's this movie? And turned it on. 2026. It's a brand new movie. I don't know why Samara Weaving and Jason Segel as the main characters are not prompting more fanfare because those are very famous people in kind of our day and time. um So that's just my plug. I don't want to give anything away about the movie because it it was a a fun little twisty movie that I was happy to see take ah some chances with some of its ah with some of its plot. And so like I would encourage more people to see it over your dead body.
Speaker: Nice. Andrew, my final one is a book and I'm only about a quarter of the way through with it, but it's really good. It's called Biological War from Annie Jacobson. um I would have talked about her other book that I read called Nuclear War a couple of years ago. um And these are both called, so that was Nuclear War, A Scenario. This is Biological cold War, A Scenario.
Speaker: And what she does in both of these books is she takes you through minute by minute what these things would most likely look like. And so in Nuclear War, it is the United States being attacked. You don't know who's being attacked. ah You don't know who is attacking the United States. And it takes you through the entire timeline of what that nuclear war would look like.
Speaker: It is a great book if you've never read it before, especially if you're a horror fan. um It is essentially a horror novel, if I'm being honest. um She writes it with such just like ah a thrilling aspect to it. It's very hard to put down. And the same is true for biological war. This is a scenario about what a biological war, but how it would most likely play out. um In this case, it begins actually with an accident, um not even meant to be a a biological attack, but it just happens and how things would sort of spin out from there around the world. um It's interesting too, when you take it in context of COVID, because she does talk about that a little bit. And, you know, look what some of the new things that we're learning about it. And we don't know for sure, but hey, could this have been something that was being developed? We don't know.
Speaker: and I'm not going to go there. I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist on it too much, but lots of interesting stuff in this. And I'm really enjoying the book. I'm hoping to finish it this week. So if you're into that kind of thing, I do highly recommend Annie Jacobson in general. It is biological war, a scenario.
Speaker: Cool. Well, that does it for What You've Been Watching, bitch. Maddie brought us The Odyssey in theaters now, The Sopranos, which I'm sure is on HBO, and Biological War by Annie Jacobson.
Speaker: And Andrew brought us Masters of the Universe on Amazon, as well as The Devil's Mouth, and Over Your Dead Body on AMC+. plus So that does it for What You've Been Watching, bitch. Hang on. We'll be right back with our first film, of favorite, Heathers.
Speaker: Three blind mice. Three blind mice. Heather Chandler. Heather McNamara. Heather Duke.
Speaker: Veronica Sawyer. Why are you such a mega brat? Because I can be. The most powerful clique at Westerberg. God, Veronica. Droll much?
Speaker: Most people would die to get into it. Heather number one just looked right at me. I'm worshiped Westerberg and I'm only a junior. Veronica would kill to get out of it. You were nothing before you met me. You were a Girl Scout cookie. J.D. has come to answer her prayers.
Speaker: I'm a no-rest build-up man myself. We'll kill her. He's got away with women.
Speaker: A way with words. this as good for you as it is for me? Life can suck! And a very special way with a gun. Veronica can't live with him. now I love my dead gay son. And she can't live without him. Is this turnout weak or what? I had at least 70 more people at my funeral. What? Their meeting was destiny.
Speaker: That knife is filthy. What do you think I'm gonna do with it? Take out her tonsils? Their love has a body count. I loved you. was coming up here to kill you.
Speaker: That's it. We're breaking up. Young love. Heather's, a killer comedy. I'm going to have to send my SAT scores to San Quentin instead of Stanford.
Speaker: Whitney? Stephanie? Emily? No, no, no, no, no. whitney stephanie emily no no no no no We're talking about Heathers.
Speaker: Maddie, talk to us all about Heathers. Best friends, social trends, and an occasional murder. At Westerberg High, three ruling clique members, all named Heather, run the school. Veronica Sawyer is in, but increasingly disillusioned until mysterious new kid JD sweeps her into a plan to take over, to take the Heathers down a peg.
Speaker: When their prank on Queen Bee, Heather Chandler, accidentally kills her, they stage it as a suicide. And J.D.' 's appetite for solving Veronica's problems escalates into a body count.
Speaker: Heather's was directed by Michael Lehman. written by Daniel Waters, produced by Cinemark Entertainment, distributed by New World Pictures, Veronica Sawyer, played by Winona Ryder, Jason J.D. Dean by Christian Slater, Heather Chandler by Kim Walker, Heather Duke by Shannon Doherty, Heather McNamara, played by Lizanne Falk, Pauline Fleming by Penelope Milford, Father Ripper by Glenn Shaddix, Kurt Kelly by Lance Fenton, Ram Sweeney by Patrick La... Ooh... lob your two i don't know uh betty finn by renee estevez martha dump truck dunstock by carrie lynn and principal gowan by john engel heathers was rated r it's 103 minutes long made in the usa released march 31st of 1989 filmed in los angeles budget was 3 million and this was interesting to me the gross was only 1.1 million domestic
Speaker: Isn't that strange? I thought it would have made at least the money back, but I guess it didn't. um So anyways, that is the bits on Heathers. Andrew, how was this viewing of Heathers for you? Tell me all about it.
Speaker: Yeah, I had not seen Heathers all the way through since I was a teenager. So this was interesting to go back to. um yeah I mean, this is a classic and in in my in my books. I had forgotten that so many classic lines like, fuck me gently with a chainsaw, were from this movie. And I was kind of caught off guard with how much plot is just in that first scene. scene in the lunchroom and how much you have to absorb into your ether to to kind of understand the rest of the movie just based on that first like what it kind of goes on forever like the first like what 25 minutes of the movie is lunchroom And you learn everything you need to know about the rest of the movie kind of in that first 25 minutes. um And so I was enthralled by this movie this time around. i i kind of forgot that this was such a classic and that this was such a
Speaker: ah it was, it was such a movie that set up so many more movies to come. Totally. we And you could just see it that people, that so many filmmakers had like, uh, just pulled from this movie, you know, from Jennifer's body to mean girls to yeah so many different movies.
Speaker: this had so much influence on. And so um this time around, I just had a lot of fun with it. I do i do get really frustrated with Winona Ryder's character, but we'll get into that and you know as we as be further into our critique of the movie. um But overall, I had a great time watching it. um This will definitely be put on my rotation of movies to revisit every once in a while because I had just forgotten how um how how fun it is, but how i'm poignant it is. And, you know, we can get into that a little bit too. um But it just shows like like as much as we want to say things change, they don't that much, which is very weird.
Speaker: um And, you know, we'll we'll we'll get into it. But yeah, that's kind of my overall critique because I had a ton of fun with it. um I kind of forgot about like the Christian Slater effect, if that makes any sense. What do you mean?
Speaker: um I just forgot that how um how ah magnetic he is on screen. Oh, totally. yeah In this time. ah ah And we'll talk about his weird his weird relationship with his dad in this movie. but um um it was It was fun seeing a ah kind of a 90210 pre-Shannon Doherty. show There was just so much fun in this movie. um We'll talk about some of the problems and the way that they...
Speaker: treat suicide, which is really strange, but, um, yeah, yeah that's my overall feeling. What about Cause I know that this is not a first time watch for either of us, but maybe something we haven't revisited in a while. So what about you? I think it's great. You know, if I grew up with, with, uh, I, I have, I have five sisters and you know, when when I was growing up, two of them would have been older um And so what I mean by that is, you know, like, like not in the house with us, but three of them were when I was growing up. And so all like the things that like girls of like the eighties and nineties were really into, those are things that I also got into because guess what? They were always around. um And my sister Katie loved Heather's and I would have watched Heather's because of Katie first. And I can still hear Katie saying some of these lines right now, you know, when she was a teenager and like thinking that that was really funny and really cool. um And watching you know the movie and and thinking it was really funny even as a little kid.
Speaker: right and um And also like you know kind of being introduced as a little kid. to you know like yeah yeah like like what' a whole whole bunch of things through this through this film. I think you're right that Christian christian um Slater is so incredibly magnetic. like Looking him back, there was no one else like him at that time. you know Like just from like the way he looked to the way he sounded to the way he acted. he was just fucking cool. There's a reason why he was a movie star. And, you know, Winona Ryder was really kind of perfect as Veronica. um It was really fun this time to see Shannon Doherty again, just so young. um I haven't thought about her. in so long. So that was kind of fun.
Speaker: And um I was reminded in this just like, you know, how how different movies used to be back then and the things that, you know, you would say in films back then that you just don't say now, of course.
Speaker: ah So many fag jokes. So many things. Jesus God Almighty. But like it was but it was fun to watch. Also, you know, look, it was a great excuse for me to finally buy it. I just didn't have it in my collection. So I got it for like, you know, $4.99 on Apple, which is great. um And it was really funny. You know, just like you, there there are so many lines here that, you know, you you've heard before, but you kind of forget that they all came from Heathers. um And they're're they're really, really fucking good.
Speaker: just some great one-liners, some great dialogue in this. like And there's there's stuff that I've been repeating to this very day. Like, i i one of my favorite things, like, you know, when you repeat a movie line when it's contextual and whatever it might be. One of my favorite things to say is since I first saw this movie has always been, i love my son. i love my dead gay son. Like, it's just, that's that's hilarious and stupid.
Speaker: um but you know, it comes from this totally dark fucking weird movie. And what a wonderful thing it is. um So, yeah, I had a great time watching it. I i think it fits perfectly with our theme today. um But I'm interested in, in you you know, the things that you were saying there. Tell me tell me more about... um you know, how you sort of see how we haven't changed since then. What do you mean by that?
Speaker: I just think some of the themes here um are things that we're still going through to this day. Like it's, it's very weird to see like the, um the, the,
Speaker: popularization of suicide in this movie and how they how they ah they take it and they ah almost like editorialize it as like a as like a piece of, of, of fame is that somebody killed themselves and all of a sudden it's, but think about that. Like anytime, anybody, anytime anybody dies or gets severely injured, it's top news. Like, you know what i mean? It's, it's, it's what's going on. It's, Oh my God. Like I, for instance, I don't know if you've seen any of this, but the Perez Hilton, uh, whole thing going on. i saw i saw a little mention of it, but yeah, like he was doing some self harm or something like that.
Speaker: Yeah, he got on TikTok Live and started cutting himself on on TikTok Live for anyone to see. Anyone could see that. Any kid, any parent, any grandparent, any of that could see someone go online and harm themselves. And guess what? It was not labeled as, oh, da-da-da-da-da. It was labeled as headline news, headline news. And so like this kind of thing, like in Heathers, it's the same thing. And we've been saying it for forever. You know what mean? Like it yeah it's, it's very, it's a very sick thing. um But yeah, that that was kind of like the thing that was riding with that. But um it's, it's interesting to watch this movie with, with modern day eyes because it's, you, you watch Winona Ryder's character go through all of this and,
Speaker: But she never asks for help. Do you realize that? like she That's true. yeah She just keeps going. And I'm like, girl, you do you not? and it And it just further solidifies the...
Speaker: popularity of it all is that she has no real friends. They're all just Heathers. Yeah, sure. And so she has no one to reach out to because she's ah she's gotten rid of her quote-unquote real friends. I think Betty, right? Betty is the girl who She kind of like invites over. yeah um she's She's isolated those people so much because of popularity that she has no one to reach out to. And ah the the quote unquote, like I guess like the closest thing to a counselor is that is the teacher who then just wants to make her own her own self famous. Of course. Trying to help the kids. Yeah.
Speaker: i don't know, there's just a lot in this to digest and when you really start to think about it. And this makes it such a good film is that like under under the lens of like, you know, ah of like this dark, dark fantasy of Heathers, there's actually like just under the lens, there's actually like stuff that you you really could self contextualize and understand that is really going on in real life. It's very strange. Absolutely. that this This is ah a dark look into into into being a teenager and and how popularity you know truly rules the day. Also the adults. The adults. like Of course. Yeah, yeah sure. like the fact that Really everybody, but ah how how it drives you to do insane things just that you can feel included. It's it's very fucked up.
Speaker: Yeah, the whole um the the whole scene that I had forgotten about was the whole college party scene. I had totally like blanked out on like the... i forget the name of the the university. that it's starts I know it starts with an R, but um ah that they go to the party. And like the one Heather who goes to the party ah with Winona Ryder's character, and she like immediately gets i mean it's like suckered...
Speaker: remington or runnington or something like that yeah um that she gets basically like suckered into offering her friend up as uh as like a an item for this other man to to go after and then also get suckered into giving a blow job for no reason you know what i mean up man um so Some of the great lines from this film um are, well, fuck me gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Teresa? If I did, I probably wouldn't mind talking to the Geek Squad. I mean, come on.
Speaker: Classic. Veronica, you look like hell. Yeah, I just got back. Dear diary, my teen angst bullshit now has a body count. I have to think about that diary. I know, right? My son's a homosexual and I love him. I love my dead gay son. That's just, love it so much.
Speaker: um What's another good one in here? I just killed my best friend and your worst enemy. Same difference. um There's just, there's so many great ones in here. So many great. I liked, I liked um if everybody jumped off her bridge, would you? And then she goes, probably.
Speaker: ah And I liked the, I liked the running gag too with the parents where she's always like great pate, but I got a motor to do this thing. Like she says like three times. yeah You know what i want, Dave? What? Cool guys like you out of my life. Yeah.
Speaker: and you No, no one can forget corn nuts. Corn nuts. but I mean, that's another thing. I i you know like if if you if you if you watched it before, you probably said that a million times ever since then. It's just it's so fucking good. Also, it makes me want corn nuts, to be honest.
Speaker: I did like the line that I, and I had forgotten that they kind of do like a hard but ah a sequence to this is where she goes, yeah, i'll I'll go on a date as long as they, it doesn't turn into one of those nights where they get shit faced and take us to a pasture to to to tip cows. And then they cut like slap cut right to that moment. Yeah.
Speaker: I want to talk a little bit about the gayness in this movie. Oh, totally. Because this is not a movie where we had any
Speaker: aperture to not talk about gayness And it's very interesting because in 1989, you don't see many movies that are just so open about like how we were slewing around the fag word and how we were just saying cocksucker and that's gay and dot, dot, dot, dot. Say that you like to suck big dicks. Right. But it was funny, though, because the two characters, I think it's Kurt and Ram.
Speaker: Yeah, Ram. As soon as they were on screen, I was like, well, obviously they are ah they are self-actualizing. They are punch they are gay. like Yes. you I mean, like they they they get they get called to a threesome. And like got some news. If you think that you're straight and you're having a threesome with another guy and a woman...
Speaker: You are a little bit gay. like that where you're where you're both going to you're Where you're both going to put your dicks in her mouth. I think that's a little gay. Yeah, like you're you're both going to get naked in front of each other and do sexual things. Guess what? You are a little bit gay. And in this case, they are both 100% sure a little bit gay. um i I remember being a kid and being like a little bit aroused by that. I remember that. I don't know if you do or not. But when I was a teenager, I was like, oh, okay, that's interesting.
Speaker: Well, I mean, Kurt is definitely my type. he's But he's definitely like 20 years older than every other character in this movie. I so these are not high speed They don't look high school age. Just saying. Just saying.
Speaker: um But like, I want to, and it's funny because i think it's funny that they have the the quote unquote homosexual artifacts that they have to have at at the at the scene. And it's it's a copy of Stud Puppy, yeah a a candy dish, which which they call it a candy dish, but I call it like a box of chocolates, basically. um A Joan Crawford postcard. And most importantly... And this was the weirdest thing to me because I don't really I don't really get it. But maybe it's a product of the time. Most importantly, mineral water.
Speaker: Why are we saying that like bottled water is gay or are we saying that mineral water is gay? What is the joke there? Do you know? I think maybe back then like mineral water was just so uncommon. I mean, like for one thing, like bottled water in general was like not super big of a thing, but like. Like if you were getting like a San Pellegrino back then or if you were getting i can't think of or like or um I think Perrier would have been bigger in in a lot of cases.
Speaker: Like it's almost like you were a feat getting that. You were you were like ah ah a different class of person getting that all together. um So maybe that's just a bit of it. I don't know. Maybe like fancy, I guess. Like super fancy for sure. Yeah. Like fancy dancy is gay, I guess. I would say so. Probably.
Speaker: That was interesting to me. i i felt like I was missing the joke there, but I knew they were trying to imply something that I was missing. But I knew that was like, oh, that must have been of the time. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker: um I think that the the fake song is hilarious. Teenage suicide, don't do it. Don't do it Teenage suicide, she blew it It's ridiculous.
Speaker: i also kind of I also kind of forgot how violent the movie is. It's very violent. With especially the death of Heather Chandler, right? That's the first one, right?
Speaker: Yeah. when she she She drinks the... Drano, essentially. Drano, basically. Yeah. yeah Which I don't know if you know this, but my mom got into Drano when she was a kid, and she has she has scars in her mouth because of that. Holy shit. I did not know that. Oh, my God. Yeah. she ah ah according to her terrifying According to her, when she was a kid, she thought it was sugar.
Speaker: And so she...
Speaker: But I think this is like, this is, uh, my mom is of the age. No, she's, she's had me when she was 20 years old. She was exactly 20 years younger than me or 20 years older than me. Sorry. Um, and, uh, I think that that's of the time and you know, and that led to in the eighties, those little, I don't know if you remember these. I distinctly remember these, those poison stickers that were always on your sick.
Speaker: Yeah. ah That were always on your under cabinet below your sink. where Yeah. thinking game were yeah so Absolutely. I think she's like, yeah she's the, she's the, she's the child that did that.
Speaker: Well, you know, and it's it's especially like, you know, but back then, like violence in schools wasn't a thing. Like it it is weird built to to watch the movie now with like guns in schools because of just because. How that boy would not be immediately expelled from that from that school by bringing a gun school.
Speaker: to the beginning of the movie there you go it's just it's like what i mean it just tells you what a fucking different time different things we were thinking back then it's absolutely insane i also um i was it was a new experience for me to um experience the ending again ah i kind of didn't i kind of didn't remember how it ended yeah i was like did is he gonna pull this off like is he going to blow up the school and i kind of had this like this like moment of dread of like oh my god all these kids as as as egregious as a lot of them are a lot of them are very innocent and i don't i don't want them to to die and then you know the movie ends the way it ends and you know he ends up killing himself instead but i was just like wow um that was that was wild for being 1989
Speaker: Truly, truly. the The ending also reminds me of when she comes out smoking the cigarette, looking all whatever. It reminds me of, oh, what is the movie? um she's she's she's She just gets married. there's It's a game.
Speaker: Ready or not. seek Ready or not, exactly. It was a nice like little, wonder if ready or not was like, oh, we'll play a little homage to Heather's thing. Before we wrap things up, I want to talk about ah Veronica.
Speaker: Okay. Because i I have some issues with Veronica. And they are. And how complacent she is with JD. Because he shows her right from the beginning that he's willing to kill people around her.
Speaker: This is true. and And because if you remember correctly in the movie, she swaps the poison for just, I think it's like what milk and orange juice. Yeah. Like that's supposed to be like the curdled, like funny, funny, ha ha. And he swaps it back and kills Heather.
Speaker: And yet she still just keeps going on with it. Yeah. And I was just like, Veronica, what are you doing? well did you sort Did you have any reaction to that this time around? I did. It's sort of like she doesn't quite get it. um It's like when when they go to meet Kurt and and he she counts to three. And he's already killed somebody. yeah Christian Sater comes out and kills the one, but she misses the other.
Speaker: And and i was thinking, did she deliberately miss him? Like, is that I i feel like she did. and she sort of explains it. She's like, yeah, but it's like, you know, it it was worth it just to see the look on his face. And then you can kind of see it in her face the way that the way that Winona Ryder is acting. It's like when when she sees whichever one got got killed first, she she kind of starts to understand the gravity of what this thing really is. Now, you know, she shoots him again. She she shoots the other one, doesn't she? She does. she yeah Yeah. She misses. No, she misses. but she's but But when he comes back, she's the one who kills him, right? Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah. Yeah. So then all of a sudden, it's it's like she it's it's like everything happens so quickly. She starts to understand, but then she becomes complicit because then she killed someone too. um So I would imagine just like, you know, maybe she just didn't think she had a way out of it. Who do you actually tell about this? She'll get in trouble too kind of thing. I don't know.
Speaker: And I just want to we score it right after this. But one of the lines that I had in my notes is from the teacher, the self-important hippie teacher. It's so funny. um And I have similar lines for our next movie. But this I thought this was very poignant. Whether to kill yourself or not is one of the most important choices of a teenager. oh my God. Jesus.
Speaker: Andrew, tell us, what did you rate Heather's? All right. Here at Friday, the 13th or podcast, we grade on a seven stripe scale for the seven stripes of the gay old rainbow. I give Heather's a five and a half. And I said, without this movie, we wouldn't have so many iconic films. It's smart while being nihilistic. And it really shows how little progress we have made as a species.
Speaker: Nice. And I gave it a six and I said, it's a classic corn nuts. That does it for Heather's folks. So we'll be right back with the in crowd.
Speaker: This girl has a violent past. I don't remember it all. She deserves a chance on the outside. You're crazy and they'll send There's no way coming back to that hellhole.
Speaker: So you're new here? Yeah. Welcome to the lifestyles of the rich and tasteless. Not to say that it doesn't have its appeal. Wow, you all look great. And I'm down for that.
Speaker: She's got that, don't you think?
Speaker: Oh, Adrian, you would kill in that dress. Now we really are like sisters. It's okay, Adrian. I know. Trust me, half the people around here have been in rehab or therapy. mean, we are friends, right?
Speaker: I wasn't looking for a boyfriend. if You don't have to as long as you just take what's mine. I can't believe you blew this. I handed her to you. really don't know Britt, do you, Adrienne? She's not your friend.
Speaker: I brought you in. I can just as easily throw you out. If only she would go away.
Speaker: Am I supposed to be scared now?
Speaker: You don't want to be with the out crowd, you want to be with the in crowd. Andrew, tell us all about the in crowd. What would you do to get in? Adrienne Williams, fresh out of a mental institution, lands a job at a posh East Coast country club where she's taken under the wing of Brittany Foster, a charismatic queen bee of a wealthy college clique. As Brittany draws her deeper into the group and tennis pro Matt Curtis catches Adrian's eye instead, Brittany's dark side surfaces and Adrian starts to realize this circle will will protect its secrets at any cost.
Speaker: Directed by Mary Lambert, a second time on the show. from Pet Sematary fame, written by Mark Gibson and Philip Halpern. ah Production distribution well-handed by Morgan Creek Productions and Warner Brothers. Adrian Williams is played by Laurie Hearing. Brittany Foster is... I just want to point out all these people have two names, which is so funny. I'll get into bit. Brittany Foster is played by Susan Ward. Matt Curtis is played by Matthew Settle.
Speaker: ah Bobby is played by Nathan Bexton. Dr. Thompson is played by Daniel Hugh Kelly. Kelly is played by Laurie Fardier. ah Joanne is played by Kim Murphy. Andy is played by J.R. Ferguson. Wayne is played by A.J. Buckley. Morgan is played by Catherine Towne. And Tom is played by Ethan Erickson. Far too many people in this movie. Rated PG-13, it comes in and at 105 minutes, released on July 19th of 2000, and locations for filming were Charleston, South Carolina. Budget was $24 million and and only grossed about $5.3 million. This is not a first-time watch for me, but it was a second-time watch because I had only seen this once before. Matty, what is your experience with the in-crowd? Yeah. First time watch for me, um, had never heard of it before. Um, definitely fits our theme well. And, uh, it's, uh, it's a film of, of many different, uh, aspects.
Speaker: Um, There's, it's, it's amazing how, um, like, okay, this came out in 2000. It actually yeah feels even older than that to me. That's my exact, that's exactly. This is, this is 1995. Yeah. It was like 95 or even earlier than that. And like, you know, one of the things for me that that really sort of like like like like pinpoints that for me is is um the soundtrack in the movie, the soundtrack. There there are no popular songs in in this movie, so there's no popular music at all. It is. I don't know who composed it or who did the things, but like.
Speaker: Clearly, they were trying to get around any sort of copyright you know stuff like that at all, and they just like made their own music. And so it kind of turns out being a little bit like Mewzaki and kind of like a little bit weird. And it just it' it's music that just...
Speaker: It feels like something, but it's not anything, if that makes any sense. And so like it brings you, for me anyway, it it made me feel like this was like, I don't know, 94, 95, you know, ah like like like you were saying.
Speaker: And um that's interesting because sometimes that can make it feel a little bit cheesy, obviously. Like there's the the couple of things that I can think of right now are like when we first see like the beach club thing, um which by the way, can I just tell you also,
Speaker: if this club is so exclusive, it sucks. Like, it's not even maybe that night. And it's small. And I'm just sitting there thinking, like, this is what you all think is cool. But, like, whatever. Anyways, um like, when when we first hit the beach club, there's, like,
Speaker: the The camera comes in and it's and it's a beautiful day for for the for the beach and they're about to like take the flag down. And there's like just like a group of like four kids kind of like randomly dancing like under one of the porticos. I can see them right now. Right. And the music playing is just so corny. I'm like, what on earth?
Speaker: what on earth? And then another one that I'm thinking of right away is like they're they're they they're having like that first party like inside the clubhouse kind of thing. And there's like this moment where like the dudes are like dancing on like the dance floor or whatever. And like the music that they're dancing to, I'm like, what? the fuck is this? It's just ah it's a weird aspect of the movie.
Speaker: um So there is that um the ah you know, the the the dialogue here is not my favorite dialogue. But like, you know, look, it's it's not terrible. It's just like, you know, Andrew, not to to give your your takeaway away, but like it feels kind of like a lifetime dialogue and it feels like a lifetime kind of script. And so it's not bad. Girls like her have fangs. Exactly. Like, you know, it's not terrible. It's just like it feels like a B-movie the entire time. And, you know, a B-movie made for $24 million, that's an expensive-ass B-movie.
Speaker: um And it's it's interesting because I know that Variety, ah one of our trivia things here, is that Variety's review called out how odd it was that this pulpy genre item cast with unknowns made warner brothers summer slate at all and that's the interesting thing one of the interesting things for me too is like it's hard to imagine this being like ah an actual feature release at the at the at the movies but i guess it was did you did you see it like way back when or when did you first see it i think this was a dvd for me okay so so you you you you didn't go to the cinema for it then No, I would have been a sophomore in high school. So I don't. Yeah.
Speaker: right. And actually, maybe, maybe I worked at the theater at this time. Okay. Possible. But like definitely watching this, it's hard to imagine watching this at the movie theater and like taking it seriously almost. um But look, you know, that's also kind of the fun of it. And like,
Speaker: I'm not going to you know shit all over this movie. There there there are there are are reasons why I think people like it. But um it's you know it's it's a little silly. And um I think that that especially Britney and Adrian thing gets a little wild after a while. um And there look, there's definitely a lot of gay shit in this too, obviously. like if if you can't smell that lesbian-ness of this from a mile away, your your nose doesn't work.
Speaker: um But, you know, look, i did did i did I hate it No. Do I need to watch it again? you know Probably not. But it was it was an interesting one. And like I said, it was definitely a good choice for for our theme for this episode.
Speaker: All right. Well, I'm going to surprise you here. I loved it. Andrew, that is not a surprise to me. i was transported back to the hand that rocks the cradle, single white female mixed with cruel intentions and wild things all up there wrapped up in a nice little bow. The weird thing, just like you that I thought of, is this came out in 2000.
Speaker: Yeah. Like what? i had i had I had to double check it because I was like, OK, I thought it was early 90s, but I guess not. OK. um I definitely get like the i i i can't imagine that Mary Lambert wasn't a Melrose Place fan because this this reeks Melrose Place. Oh, my God. Yes.
Speaker: but like on like a like a you know on the on the green if you will um i don't know there's there's just something about this kind of movie that gets me and it's it's like the sexiness but like the overt like weirdness of the dialogue like there's there's one there's one sentence in here i just i started twice in my notes because i wanted to make sure i brought it up But there is a moment where Adrian is recounting what sent her to the ah the the crazy be home, if you will.
Speaker: um And it's very innocent. It's so funny that she had to go away for this. um But she basically she falls in love with her school psychologist. And like she does she sees it a different way than he does. And all a sudden she has a hockey stick for some reason. And she smashes his windshield with that.
Speaker: but But that sends her away? That's what sends her, like, wouldn't you just be like, I don't know. Anyway, but there's a sentence that she is recounting when she's talking to her coworker where she says, um yeah, they sent me to the school psychologist. He was just one of those people that that you could talk to. And I was like, you mean ah psychologist? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Oh, okay. Gotcha. No way. But no, i I love this kind of like just like very pulpy, very like over the top. And I don't even know if they were trying to do this. They probably weren't. But like to me, it comes off that way as like just very like pulpy and like very like, I don't know, like all like psychosexual and like...
Speaker: um single white female like those kind of movies um and so like i liked all the like twists and turns i liked that sandra was actually dead and that like the ring came into it and ah i think that it's kelly that says like oh she doesn't wear a copy of it anymore like like because that's like a aspect of the movie or um And I like that she dresses up as Sandra at the end. i just think of it's like, this is just like, it's such a fun, stupid movie. um And i I like those little aspects of like movies that we've watched. Like think about like fear, that movie that we watched. Sure.
Speaker: that that one's a little more serious than this movie, but like it's got those aspects to it where, you know, we're going to unscrew the, get the, the bolt on Kelly's motorcycle and like that kind of stuff. um I don't know. I just think that this movie is like a amalgamation of all of the nineties, psychosexual ah movies, all kind of melded into one little weird movie that Mary Lambert apparently wanted to put out there. um But I don't know. i had I had so much fun with it. was so stupid. i'm'm I'm looking back. as i the The thing about like seeing it in the in the theater, just it's been in my it's in my head now.
Speaker: Things that came out around the same time, um like like actually like in that same month, ah ah a lot of things did actually. Blood Simple came out, ah but was it was a re-release. ah But I'm a Cheerleader came out that year. um which which would have been ah a whole different you know sort of releasing.
Speaker: um Chuck and Buck came out the same time. X-Men would have come out July 14th, so so the the week before. um The Eyes of Tammy Faye came out from Lionsgate, Loser, um Pokemon the Movie. What Lies Beneath came out then. Oh, we've covered that one. that interesting? Yeah. um Nutty Professor 2, The Clumps. Yeah. came out right around then. Remember that one? Psycho Beach Party. We talked about that before. That came out then too. um Coyote Ugly came out that summer. So its it is, it just, it remains interesting to me. Like i I think Variety is right. It's like, how did this one get released at that same time? Like it's, like how did how was this not like a just a release it to, you know, VHS and DVD kind of thing back then? I don't know. It's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker: It's funny because it's it definitely, um it's one of those movies where everyone is acting. know they're acting and they're acting hard. They're acting hard in this one. Like every girl has, like and it's it's funny, I don't know if you clocked this or not, but like there are many, many times where they do the whole, where they only light the eyes to like, yeah like make them, you know what i mean? Like it's it's yeah it's almost like ah it's almost like an eye block only on the eyes. Right. um And it's supposed to like make like the girl like super sexy. So sexy.
Speaker: oh my God. ladyy There was a point in the movie where, I turned to Michael and I go, pull it together, Elkie. It's your time to shine because it's because it's the one guy who they've definitely labeled as like the alcoholic of the group, even though they're all alcoholics. and Completely. And that he has to like help her like because she gets framed for the murder of the doctor. And I, Honestly, like kind of a smart little thing in the movie of ah how Brittany sets up Adrian. Totally. like It makes sense.
Speaker: ah ah She wears that dress to go seduce the the doctor and she uses the club of. It was her. She's the crazy one. I don't think that they necessarily stuck the landing on the ending. don't think so either. It's whole getting caught in the pool type of thing. But I do think they stick the landing when she's in the home for girls. I don't even know what to call it anymore. It's not a psycho house, but the home for St. Alphonsus or whatever they call it in the movie.
Speaker: um I did like that... they end it with that guy dropping off her, uh, her, her lip gloss. And like, they start that weird music where it's like, what is it? It's like, no, i was i go no, here we go. I was like, what was the name? It's, uh, behind every good woman is a trail of men. That's the trail of men. Okay. Yeah. We can't, we can't discount that they actually do hit on lesbianism in this movie. Yes.
Speaker: completely yes I was one like, listen, I had seen this movie in probably 2001. So I do not remember it at all. So the the turn of Kelly and Brittany actually being like romantically intertwined was a little surprising to me for 2000. But I guess in the wake of movies like Wild Things, we this is like where we were at in like the culture. So i guess it's not too far of ah an offshoot. Yeah.
Speaker: um But I did think it was interesting that she seduces her and then drowns her. for real. um Something so of the 90s that we left in the 90s is the warehouse party.
Speaker: i don't know if you clocked the warehouse party. Yeah. Yep. Oh, yeah. Where we grinded on each other with glow sticks. Like, what on earth were we thinking back then? My And it's funny because this is where the dialogue gets kind of corny in this movie. And I'm not... i Listen, this movie is very corny. It is. I'm not discounting it. I'm just saying yeah corny kind of works for me sometimes. But there's a part where they're driving away to like go to the warehouse party. And we're we're set up at the early part of the movie where the doctor says to Adrian, you know, here are the things you're not supposed to do. Don't do drugs. Don't drink. Don't leave this county. And there's i think there's like one more thing. And slowly she breaks all of them like she drinks, you know, she does stuff. And then as they're driving away to go to the warehouse party, she goes, are we leaving Lane County?
Speaker: Shut up, you stupid bitch. Oh my God. but But I love, i distinctly remember that scene though. That was what the scene that stuck out to me is where they like seduce the guy and then they diss him at the end.
Speaker: Oh, yeah. um And the other the other thing that stuck out to me in this movie that i that I had forgotten was from this movie was that stupid hiccup cure.
Speaker: you know what I'm talking about? Drinking upside down from the glass. Yeah. Which impossible. I had forgotten that this is from this movie, though. That stuck in my brain. it was like You cannot do that. It's not going to happen.
Speaker: Well, she doesn't. Oh, Lord. um I thought it was funny that um because this is in 2000, we had a couple of crossover characters um with specifically the movie Valentine.
Speaker: Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah sure. I don't even remember when we covered that movie Ions ago, but ah there was like the two main guys, Matt and then ah the guy who always goes to rehab. What's his name? Luke, I think. Something like that. I think so. Something that, yeah. um those Both of those two guys were in Valentine as well. So interesting. Interesting. A little bit of a crossover. um i think it's super fun when she starts to put the mystery together and she gets the shoe from the ah the mentally handicapped man, I guess I would call him. Yeah.
Speaker: But and this is what's funny about this movie is at the end of the movie, he's the one that like sends her off into like the great beyond. And he's the one that helps her find like solve the mystery. He's not really in the movie. like like they They play them off like they were best friends in the movie or like that they were like haphazard friends. But like they only have like two scenes together in the entire movie.
Speaker: You know, the one thing that stuck in my mind, too, is the the um the postcard thing that she has. And the very famous painting on it is from Andrew Wyeth. It's called k Christina's World. And like that's it's a painting that a lot of people know about. And I was thinking, I just, I'm still kind of struck on like why he chose that, like, or why they chose that, I should say. Like, I don't yeah fully understand it. Like, and like, there's a whole lot of, you know, just like pretty easy art criticism that you can go look up about, you know, the the story behind Christina's world and and, you know, different thoughts about what it means, et cetera, et cetera. But I still just don't really get it. I don't know. Besides it just being, you know, a woman sort of looking, know,
Speaker: at a house who seems to be in desperation, like that kind of stuff. But do you have any thoughts about that at all? Do you know? I didn't really think about it too much, to be honest. Because, well, and the thing about that that um bothered me about the movie is that they never address...
Speaker: why she has that postcard or what's written on it or like what, like who it's from, because it's obviously from someone that means something to her, but it never plays into the actual like, uh, movie. So I kind of just wrote it off as like, uh, I don't know, something else, but yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker: Maybe there's some more stuff that got edited out. There has to be. but or whatever but There has to be. i was kind of hoping that there would be something else there just because I i truly like it. think it's a great painting. it's It's such a cool fucking image. But oh well. That was the Lost. I was. empty gods I was waiting for the other shoe to drop about Adrian because I thought that there was maybe a little bit more about her character that we were supposed to know, but it never really comes to fruition. Like we never get to like meet her parents or meet her sibling or a friend of hers from the past or like...
Speaker: anything so like i wonder if there is something on the cutting room floor about adrian because this movie already clocks in at what 105 minutes so it's already probably like 15 minutes it needs to be but um i i did like the part at the end where you know britney you know they find them in the pool which As I'm watching the movie, I'm like, how do nobody how does nobody hear them fighting outside or splashing in the pool? And then they do catch them. and They do catch them in the pool, so it makes sense. But then she goes, you made me this way. And I thought that that was a very interesting...
Speaker: um kind of look at popularity and like how it shapes people and like the things that we, uh, that we give to people based on nasty behavior that they share in the way that we positively reinforced bad behavior. And, and I, you know, I think, ah i think of our dear leader and how people positively reinforced him its entire life into being a nasty person and how that shapes people.
Speaker: Work faster biology, please. Wouldn't that be nice? Andrew, what did you rate the in crowd? You know, this is going to be one I'm going to revisit because I did like it quite a bit, even though it's really stupid. um I gave it a four and a half. I realize it's not a perfect movie. I said, I don't know if I'm just a sucker for a movie like this, but it just scratches an itch of a time and a place of a lifetime esque thriller that I just love.
Speaker: That is fair. I gave it a three and a half and i said, you know, look, it just really does transport you to the early 2000s or the early 90s. Definitely a B-movie, lifetime certified. And, you know, nostalgia aside, it's just a little bit silly.
Speaker: So, folks, that does it for our films in this episode. But stay tuned for when we close out the show. In every high school, there's a who's who. I think I was the cool, smart kid. I was voted most likely to succeed. Pretty outgoing. Quiet. The life of the party. Call it a running list of social acceptance. For some, it's the hallmark of their high school experience.
Speaker: Friends, that was episode 167 of Fraggy the 13th Horror Podcast. But before we go, as always, Andrew has worked up a little game for us to close out the show. So Andrew, tell us all about unpopular opinions.
Speaker: So I'm going to read you some opinions on the internet that I found. And we're going to either agree or disagree. And I hope it prompts some some fun little banter between the two of us. Sure, sure. So the first unpopular opinion is you don't need to shower every single day.
Speaker: disagree with this. I think that that is that is that should be unpopular. So you think you should you should shower every day? Yeah. Now, listen, I don't think you need to wash your hair every day and everything. But like, yeah, I think you need to like, you know, you need to clean yourself up, man. You know, it's 2026. wash your damn self.
Speaker: like washerd damn self Yeah. For me, I think it's fine if people don't want to shower every day. For me, I'm going shower every day. what It's what prompts me into the world. It's like, okay, I'm setting up my day. Exactly. Yes. So, yeah, that's just like that's like my wake-up call. Like when I shower, I'm ready for the day. Fair.
Speaker: I'm going to shower every day. Good. On a plane, the middle seat gets both armrests. No, you don't. Now, why do you think that way?
Speaker: i mean I mean, I don't know. ah i never sit in the middle. i I make it a point not to sit in the middle. um But i I think that no one owns the armrests, right? So I think that you you're you're goingnna have to you're you're going to have to compromise. And like for me, I think you can actually kind of you can kind of share an armrest, and you just sort of need to try to do that. But I don't think that you get both armrests on purpose.
Speaker: I disagree with you. I think that this the the the ah as a as a person in a couple who always has to have seats that are next to each other, I mean, you don't have to, but we get seats next to each other. um I think that the window seat gets the window, the aisle seat gets the easy exit, and the middle seat gets the armrests.
Speaker: Okay, we can agree to disagree. right, the next one is, it's completely acceptable to leave a party without saying goodbye. This is interesting. You may have heard of the Irish goodbye here, which is an actual thing. um so I mean, look, that happens. And when it happens, you know, if ah I don't mind when people do it. I have i have a friend, Kieran, who does it all the time. It's actually pretty funny. Um, so like I kind of expected out of them to be honest, but like for me, I just personally, I can't do that. Like it's just, it's not part of my DNA. I have to like close, I have to like close it. i just, I have to, so I could never imagine myself doing that, but i guess if other people do it, I guess it's okay.
Speaker: I think that if you are, um if you're like incapacitated, like let's say you got too drunk or something like that's perfectly fine. But if you were invited to a party, you should at least say goodbye to the host, the person that invited you.
Speaker: I think that that is, if you don't do that, I think it's rude in in my personal opinion. Or you should at least text later and be like, oh my God, good I couldn couldn't catch you, but great party. Thanks so much for having me, blah, blah, blah, that kind of thing.
Speaker: Yeah, I think it's very rude to not acknowledge that you were invited. 100%. 100%. I agree. All right. right The next one is, you don't have to respond to every text message. um
Speaker: I think mostly I disagree with that. Me To be honest. Especially in the day and age of reactions. Yeah. mean like, you can just, it's, it's not hard to do. And like, you know, it's, I, you know, you don't need to respond, you know, until you're just responding back and forth with thank yous basically. But like,
Speaker: You know, I think that you you need to acknowledge that somebody has sent you a message. You know, I think it's it's more for me now about the time in which you do that. Like I i used to feel like I had to respond immediately to everything.
Speaker: And i I don't feel as much that way anymore, which is good. But I do think that you should respond. I think acknowledgement is important um and to, and also to make sure that people understand that you're important to them is important. A hundred percent. Yes. So I think that you should respond, but it's gotta be like you said, it's not just like a cyclical, like, thank you. Thank you. No, thank you. No, thank you. no thank you like it All right. Now we're going to get into a little bit more our territory. Okay. Um, fry, fry territory.
Speaker: Halloween decorations shouldn't go up until October True. um i i mean I've never really lived by that rule, to be honest. But like I think that that's not a bad rule. like I think that like um it makes it more so it makes it just a bit more special. you know like it's it's like It's reserved for that time. And like for me, spooky time starts in like September.
Speaker: But like it's like it's like you know you're you're kind of starting to get into it. The weather is starting to get to where you want it to be. But then October becomes like the special month. And so I kind of it's it's the way that I feel about like Christmas decorations like they shouldn't go up until after Thanksgiving and they should come down after New Year. Like that's it that that is the period for it. And and having them up for longer than that, it just kind of makes it unspecial, to be honest.
Speaker: Yeah, I tend to agree with this one, but I think late September is fine also. so But i mean at at the end of the day, it's going to be whenever is most convenient for you. you know what I mean?
Speaker: I kind of more see it as harvest time rather than Halloween time. Yeah, fair. Harvest time. um But don't carve your pumpkins until like the week of Halloween. Otherwise, they will go rotten. 100%. That'd be gross.
Speaker: All right. Now we're going to get into some horror ones. Jump scares are fun and horror fans just need to stop pretending they're above them.
Speaker: um is Is this really an unpopular opinion? Yeah. a lot of people are like A lot of people are like, jump scares are cheap. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, i think i think that's I think that's silly. i then And and i i I would agree with this. Like, look, and that's part of the fun of it. It's like, it's like you know, I think about one of the one of the really great jump scares of of recent times, which is an obsession with the with the with the um with the car, right? Like, i mean...
Speaker: Fucking I mean, we were in the cinema for it. People fucking jumped out of their fucking seats when that happened. And like, you know what? That was kind of cool. So yeah, I think jump scares are are perfectly fine. Now, that being said, like I don't want a movie that's just full of jump scares because that's just cheap. But like, yeah, I i generally agree. People should just kind of get over themselves.
Speaker: Yeah, i'm I'm right there with you. I think that um over-reliance on jump scares is one thing. Yeah, totally. But like a good a good jump scare is just a good jump scare. Sorry. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. For sure.
Speaker: um The next one is, a horror movie doesn't have to be scary to be good. I completely agree with this. i ah You know, we've we've said over the years of doing this that, like, you know,
Speaker: a Horror does not have to be a single little tiny box that only certain people get to say what horror is. Oh, thank God. it drives It drives me nuts when people are like that wasn't even scary. it's' It's not horror. Well, it might have been scary to some somebody else. like it doesn't that you know Look, you and I have watched so much shit.
Speaker: I often tell people like very little disturbs me anymore on screen. So like when something actually does scare me or does disturb me, I'm like, oh, wow, Jesus. But at the same time, like, I mean, like, here's here's a great example. The in crowd, we just watched it.
Speaker: That's not a scary movie at all. Like for me anyway, it might scare somebody else. I suppose I kind of doubt it to be honest, but it does that mean I'm going to sit there and go, this isn't a horror film. No, I'm not going to do that. Like, and I'm not even going to go, oh, it's horror Jason. Like, no, it's just, it's a horror movie. Like if you want it to be that it can be that there's nothing wrong with that. So, um yeah, that's that's how I feel about it.
Speaker: Yeah, this is like the classic like horror people are horror people, blah, blah. Shut up. up um All right, the next one, we have three more. We're go to get through them. Watching horror movies during the daytime is perfectly acceptable. Absolutely. fucking loly like that I just did that today when I was watching both of these films. So, yeah, sometimes you just have to watch it during the day for whatever reason. But also, if you like watching horror films, you can watch them whenever you want. And there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't have to be dark outside for me to watch a horror film. Sorry, but it doesn't.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree. All right. this is that This is a controversial one. And I know that I think that you're going to disagree, but Ghostface is scarier than Michael Myers.
Speaker: They both have unique, scary aspects to them, right? What's scary about Ghostface is that in each of the movies, obviously, you know, like that the the people getting killed by Ghostface, they know who Ghostface is, but they don't know who Ghostface is, right? That's one of the scary aspects of Ghostface is that it's somebody close to you and that they are very good at, you know, evading. Manipulating.
Speaker: and They're good at manipulating. They're very good at evading death like in so many circumstances. So they're they're hard to kill. They're hard to get rid of. They are generally very brutal. they um And they're they're generally also like you know pretty mentally fucked up. um Which is not all that different from Michael Myers. Right. I mean, the dude is clearly not, you know, Copas Mentes over here.
Speaker: um you You don't know Michael Myers, but at the same time, right. You know, if you go along with the, you know, the Laurie Strode is is the sister and all that kind of thing, like he actually is kind of a little bit like Ghostface, you know, kind of anyway. um But just in terms of who's scarier to me, I think Michael Myers is scarier just because I've been around him longer.
Speaker: And just like the way that Michael Myers doesn't ever have to move quickly. like he did he's he's is he's like um he's like He's like it follows. You know what I mean? like he's he He can always just walk to where he's getting.
Speaker: and he's probably going to win. And like there's very little that you can do to stop him. So yeah that's my choice. I think for me, Ghostface ghost face to me is ah is a person. It's always like a person. Yeah, sure. Whereas I think Michael and michael Myers is an entity.
Speaker: Oh, that's a good point, yeah. and where you don't really know who he is or what he's capable of. So I think, I think Michael Myers is a little spookier if I'm being honest. No, fair, fair. That makes sense. All right. And the last one, if you knowingly go into a basement after hearing a noise, whatever happens next is partially your fault.
Speaker: I agree with this completely. Like, like you don't have to do it, dude. You don't have to like, and like, you know, I don't have a basement anymore, but like, Yeah, if if if there if there is some sound down in the basement that sounds, you know, not right. And if you go down there and you're by yourself, I don't know. You're you're kind of asking for it. I don't i don't know what else to say.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree with you, but I am the person that's going to check it out. So I don't know what that says about me. Honestly, out of all of us, you are going to be that person for sure. I'm going to be up there going, hell no, we're not going down there. We're getting out of here right now. Let's go.
Speaker: So I guess it's partially my fault, but that is some unpopular opinions. Andrew, that was a fun one. Thank you for bringing that to the show. Listen, folks, um if you want to help make us popular, right, you can help support the show. um just like we were saying during the first segment here, we we do ask for just a couple of things. And that is we ask for, of course, your reviews if if if you can, if you haven't left one yet. But we also always put out there the option of supporting the show.
Speaker: And you can support the show really easily by going to fregay13.com slash support. Once you're there, you can become a patron on our Patreon. And if you want to do that, we ask that you do that for a dollar a month. That's all that it takes. um That money just helps me and Andrew break even.
Speaker: That's all that it does. So if you want to do that, do it today. We have a new patron. Woo! amazing. Who do got? Phillip is our newest patron. He comes from the panhandle of Texas where he he wrote me and he said that basically he doesn't have anybody like us where he lives. And so it was very it was very fun to listen to to us and understand like where we come from and he definitely identified with us it was funny because he told me that yes he is current to the to the show like he's been listening to the new ones but he's also been listening back and he's in the he's in the covet days and he was like oh it is so he's like he's like it is so strange to hear you guys then and now and so i thought that that was very interesting
Speaker: Philip, thank you for being a patron and for supporting us. a bit but But thank you for listening to us. And like like we said earlier, for being part of the community that we have helped to build. um And oh my God, Andrew, that's that is that that is wild to think about.
Speaker: a relic of its time six years ago. You know what? That makes me actually want to go back and listen to the the first episode that we would have done then. I have to think about which one that that was. I know exactly which one it is. It's fear is terrifying.
Speaker: my God. I bet we were probably not a whole lot of fun on that episode. No, I think it was the first one we did over Zoom, like in everything. Oh, yeah, because i I wonder, like, would I even have my equipment yet then?
Speaker: No, i don't know I wouldn't because I didn't buy it until um until I moved here. I i didn't buy the Focusrite and stuff, right? So like back then, yeah were were we just using Zoom to to record the audio? so Is that what we did?
Speaker: We were using that other thing that is kind of, I don't remember what it was called, but it was like basically where you just get on a call essentially. Oh, weird. God. Oh, i've I've got to go back and listen, but maybe not too long because it's going to freak me out. But ah okay, Phillip, listen, thanks for thanks for um you know thanks for going back into the vaults. You know what I mean, man? And thank you for supporting us. But Andrew, um listen, um what I hope Philip does and what I hope everyone does is that they spend a little time thinking about how they could you know they are they're already popular enough and that really what they should be going for, their main goal should be to go out there and to slayed.
