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Billboard's Greatest Popstars Part 1 (with ZEE MACHINE & DJ John Michael)
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On this episode I am joined by independent pop superstar ZEE MACHINE and the iconic friend of the pod DJ John Michael where we cover numbers 25 through 7 of Billboard Magazine's Greatest Popstars of the 21st Century. We discuss everyone from Katy Perry, Ariana Grande and Adele to Kanye West, Bad Bunny and Lil' Wayne. Lots of thoughts and lots of hot takes so always remember that much like my voice ... it's not that deep!
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Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Homophonic, everybody. I am so excited for you to hear this next two-part episode with Z Machine and DJ John Michael, where we cover Billboard's 25 biggest pop stars of the 21st century. It was a very fun conversation between the three of us. In fact, we had so much fun that we we recorded for three hours, hence the two-part episode.
00:00:19
Speaker
um I did want to give everyone just a quick note that um we recorded this episode just a few days prior to the allegations that came out against Jay-Z. So the conversation that we are having is ah not, we do we do not mention those allegations. And we had this conversation without any sort of knowledge that the allegations were even coming. So just wanted to give everyone that heads up. I know it's a very sensitive time and a very sensitive
Subjectivity in Music Rankings
00:00:46
Speaker
subject. So I just wanted to be mindful of everyone.
00:00:49
Speaker
But without further ado, please enjoy this two part episode. Welcome back to Homophonic. and what say Thank you so much. i was ah almost with the other there ah um I'm so excited today. we are just yeah ah formerly known as literally the artist is formerly known as I'm so excited. We are joined by with Z machine and DJ John Michael today where we've got a very important topic to discuss. We're doing a thing. We're doing a thing. We're doing a thing. I live when people say that I we're doing millennial core, right? We're doing I mean, we're doing a thing.
00:01:23
Speaker
we are done several things in my day. and But we need to talk about the very controversial topic of Billboard's greatest pop stars in the 21st century. It does seem to be controversial. It seems to be very controversial. any Anytime there's like an establishment puts out a list, there's going to be um irritating discourse.
00:01:43
Speaker
Well, very irritating. So what I feel like I realized looking at this list and also looking at the Rolling Stones best top 100 albums of the list is I'm like, okay. I said, so this is basically a group project for a team at Rolling Stone and at Billboard. And there are people that are assigned to this and they have to sort of all come to the table. Everybody has their specialty of what they like, what they, whatever, and make to make their case and to do this whole thing. Because I, we do this at Peloton too, where we have different projects that we work on, whatever.
00:02:10
Speaker
So I was like, okay, I'm trying to take that into consideration and be like, these are just opinions, everybody. Nothing is set in stone. I feel like everybody needs to take a breath when lists like this come out because the fandoms are a little intense.
00:02:24
Speaker
Yeah. That's the thing. And also like anytime, especially when Rolling Stone like puts out a list of their greatest, whatever the fuck it is. Um, it's kind of like, Oh, ah you'll see like a hundred comments being like such and such deserve top 10. And I'm just like, well, by nature, you can't fit all 50 of your faves in the top 10. Like yeah people are gonna just like, just based just by math, it's gonna work out that way. So like, yeah. Sorry, and unless you want them all sharing like the third spot or something. I don't know. That right that gets irritating to me that people can't look past me. Any biases. Anybody out of the top 20, they're like, ugh, in their flop era. I'm like, I yeah can't. I can't wheel this. Right. Yeah. Well, what was the Rolling Stone list where they left Slean out? The greatest singers. The greatest singers. That was it wild. Wasn't that a big list, too? It was like a hundred, I think. ah Yeah. And yeah they were like, oh, Slean, sorry.
00:03:17
Speaker
no thing I'll never forgive them for that. I mean, who doesn't have an issue with Rolling Stone? but like i remember from an early I remember from an early, early age being like, their opinions are fucked. Because I remember I was like 14 years old and I had their issue of like the 500 greatest songs of all time. And go figure, Rolling Stone put Like a Rolling Stone by Bob Dylan as the number one greatest song of all time.
00:03:44
Speaker
And they just have like forever had, and that was bent back in my like classic rock era when I was mostly listening to that. they I think they added like two Queen songs and like one Pink Floyd song. And like i even if that's not like your your vibe, I was kind of like, oh, but you but you put like, 10 Bruce Springsteen songs on here I don't know it was just like right and they'll and they'll often when they're putting out the reviews it kind of feels like okay well we're gonna give this ah we're gonna give this album five stars now we just have to make it sound like it's a five-star album like that that you to album no line on the horizon got five stars right I'm just like baby but but yeah but I but I feel like there is inconsistency because I feel the same way about pitchfork
00:04:27
Speaker
Oh, but for me, Pitchfork, it feels like they're throwing darts at a dartboard and be like, okay, we'll give it a 6.1. Right. yeah And that's what I'm like, what is the point system here? Like, when did we get to like 6.7 on this game? And I'm like, wait, well how do you define 0.7? Right. Right. Yeah.
00:04:45
Speaker
because
Billboard's Criteria and Intangible Influences
00:04:46
Speaker
what did what did they give they gave like a wasn't it vroom vroom that they like gave a really horrible score and then they retroactively like changed it i mean how do you do that no rolling stone did that for 21 by adele they gave it three and a half stars really on its release and then they i think they revised it to five They said, oops. This is when I need the sound board where I can just hit and it's just Wendy Williams going, death to all of them. Death to all of them, seriously. But yeah, this list for Billboard is very interesting. Very interesting to me. I found this to be ah so ah slow and frustrating but entertaining.
00:05:22
Speaker
but yeah of a role Yeah. And that's exactly why I wanted you to come on here because I loved seeing your takes online. but doubt i at it At the end of the day, i I'm not taking it that seriously because it's like, you know, I have these people I don't really care about. And also, I do feel like everyone below number 10 kind of just felt like they could have been anywhere on that list.
00:05:45
Speaker
Right. Right. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There there is a in my personal opinion, a notable person missing from this list. Yeah. But I don't know if we should get into that yet. I feel like I can go. Right. I was going to say, I feel like we both are aware of who we who it is. I know. I think I think I don't know. I don't know. Don't.
00:06:08
Speaker
Don't assume, but John Michael, you said that you wanted to kind of go into it first and kind of give the stipulations that we are- Yes, because if you look on the if you look on the site where they have the list, at the bottom they have also a section for honorable mentions that people that just sort of missed.
00:06:25
Speaker
I have the Wikipedia page open. And so it has them all there now. Perfect. That's actually probably smarter. And so on this page, though, I thought it so it had a section that I just wanted to read so that way people understand why Billboard is making the decisions that they are, because I feel like as I've watched the fandoms be so crazy about this, I'm like, I don't think you understand what is determining all of this. And you can't just come to the table with numbers and expect greatness.
00:06:51
Speaker
So this is from this is what it says. And we must also issue our obligatory reminder that unlike with our year-end charts, these greatest pop stars are not mathematically determined by stats like chart position, streams, or sales numbers. That's a big deal. Those play a big part right those play a big part in our final rankings, of course. You can't be one of the greatest without um great pop hits and a great pop album.
00:07:14
Speaker
but so do things like music videos live performances and social media presence and more intangible factors like cultural importance industry influence and overall omnipresence. That's the thing like like one of the factors to me in greatness is just kind of like the vibe you know right. literally It's like in in it's like I feel like in no aspect has you know.
00:07:39
Speaker
not to give away the list here, but like in no way has Beyonce ah bested Taylor in anything sales-wise. But just her vibe and her her just her presence over culture, I would say is equal to or greater based on why it's like, I don't know.
00:07:57
Speaker
I just know because I'm alive and I'm existing in pop culture and I'm taking it in and it's, come on. I just feel like it's kind of like, right. It's like one of those things with like star quality, like you just can't like stage presence. You can't put your finger on it. You can't put your finger on it. Exactly. Like, and I would use like someone like Brittany, for example, right. And when he was in her prime, she walked onto that stage. A star, right. A star enigmatic. Like you just could not take your eyes off of her.
00:08:27
Speaker
But I also feel like it comes down to things like when I think about Beyonce, it's like every time she puts out an album, some lyric, a phrase, some word, something the way she pronounces it makes it into the pop culture zeitgeist and stays there. yeah And nothing on Tortured Poets did that. nothing but But not many pop stars have done that. yeah you know so That's true.
00:08:49
Speaker
Right, so it's like there's there's something very specific about the alchemy of what she does that I'm like, she knows when she says, you know, we outside, like everybody's going to grab onto we outside. When we outside, we all outside, whatever. and like Interesting that you just said the alchemy, which is a torture to me. No. Oh, no. Oh, no. See, it's happening. It's happening. You know, maybe I take it back. yeah yeah And again, and i don't I'm not trying to shade Taylor or the fandom, but it's like I think that there just needs to be more of like what we What we lack, well, but what we lack in this in in society is media literacy. yeah And it's like, I need you to understand like why people are making the decisions and why we are where we are and how we got here. That's all. yeah and and and And commercial success is just one piece of the puzzle, as as we saw
Analysis of Billboard's Top 25 Pop Stars
00:09:36
Speaker
here. So i we should probably get into the list. I mean, do we want to go through all 25 or should we just focus on the top 10?
00:09:45
Speaker
um I think we can sort of, there's there's a few on the top top. Maybe we can touch on the the the bottom 15. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I feel like there's a lot that I can run through. Yeah, ah number 25 we start with Ms. Katy Perry. And shout out to Ms. Katy Perry. I love it. Yeah, you know, i'm I'm happy she's on. I was actually a little surprised that she was that far down. Me too. Maybe it's because it was like some of my most, you know, formative, um pop culture consuming years were in her like imperial phase. that that i That in my mind, I see her as like so one, i like I still kind of see her as like a main pop girl in a lot of ways. even Even though I feel like this year would definitely point to otherwise. right um yeah because what ah What I was gonna say is I saw an interview with Cher talking about her memoirs recently and she was talking about how she had to go and play in Las Vegas and how it was terrible and people considered it the elephant graveyard and all of that stuff.
00:10:40
Speaker
now You have everybody who's going to Vegas, wants to do a re residency, butp but but but but big production show. but But I do feel that even though the residencies are fun and they're great shows and they do well, that the disconnect of being just in Vegas and not doing anything else feels like there's something missing. And I feel like without that relevancy, you're not traveling around the world touring. You're not doing press things. another other things there's no pop-ups like it feels like the people who go like cuz when Kelly Clarkson did her residency I was like all right and we just don't really hear much about her anymore yeah but you know I feel like it can I feel like it can vary from person to person depending on the residency and depending how many shows they have and like the type of residency because like
00:11:25
Speaker
Adele's residency felt very different from like, you know, true, true. I mean, not, not to compare them on like the same level, you know, commercially and like Adele's a but little bit of a different case, but you know, like a Cher residency is different from, and you know, of course I like my, my gaga glasses are on. but Like it felt different from like the jazz and the jazz and piano residency or even the, like the Enigma residency. Cause it kind of felt like she was, cause she still came back and like was able to, you know, um,
00:11:52
Speaker
you know, do like the chromatic of it all, but like, you know, someone like Kelly or Christina, I don't really see them like burning up the charts. No, no, no, no, no, no. I just mean, I'm talking more like like cultural relevance, like just being out in the ether. Yeah. You know, I feel like when you're just plugging the Vegas show for so long.
00:12:10
Speaker
That's what that's what she
Spotlight on Pop Stars: Katy Perry, Ed Sheeran, and Bad Bunny
00:12:11
Speaker
was kind of do because I feel like she has been writing the one two punch of I guess one two three punch of the one of the boys Teenage Dream and prism. Yeah, and she's been kind of writing that since Yeah, and I mean those are those are some pretty timeless pop songs, but now it's kind of becoming like, you know, she does the VMAs she does one song from, no, two, she did two songs. And those are like the two parts that people didn't care about. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, but I mean, like, we could go into a whole thing about this, because I think Zach, we've talked about this many times, but it's like, the Dr. Luke of it all, I think also has something to do with it.
00:12:49
Speaker
Yes. za That was just, you know, i've the the number of podcasts i've I've listened to about this whole discourse. It just kind of felt like a grossly misreading the room about that whole situation. and I completely agree. And I think she just like sold out and was like, I want to hit again. So I'm going to go back to the people who made me my last hits because, hey, if Kim and Doja are doing it, then why can't I? But the difference was that she stopped.
00:13:14
Speaker
doing it and then went back to doing it. Right, right. Was it you guys who had this conversation before or was it? Probably. And I know you, okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think we did a whole episode. Oh yeah, because I didn't like that it was, like, I get it and I'm not saying that she's not wrong there, but I just felt like, why are we, everybody wants to hold her responsible for what this man did. And it's the complicity, which I get. But it's just like, where's your energy for all the other pop girls that do this?
00:13:45
Speaker
I mean, Cher recorded with one of his producers on this album. yeah You know, I feel like, and you know, and I listened to you guys' conversation when I was fully in my Women's World Apologist era. Let me tell you, I agree with you on some level. Which which may was number four on my Spotify, number was it number four yeah, number four on my Spotify wrapped this year.
00:14:08
Speaker
Wow i know but you know it's worse here's Here's the thing I listened to nothing but women's world for two days straight and then I barely was okay wait So tell me so what what what was it? What was it for you in those two days?
00:14:19
Speaker
Uh, I don't remember those. I mean, um I mean, my most played song this year was disease, which in the five days between its release and the Spotify rap cutoff, I listened to it 90 times. No, but I mean, like what? So it was what was it about women's world that like really that you were like, um Oh, um because it felt like old Katie. That's what I said. That's exactly what I said. And you know what? So i I felt like I was being a little bit like gaslit to people being like, this is absolute garbage. And I'm like,
00:14:46
Speaker
This sounds like Teenage Teen. And and i and and like if you don't like the principle behind her going back to work with Dr. Luke, okay, that's fine. You don't have to. Do I love the lyrics? Not particularly. The hooks are there. The production is there. I don't know what people are talking about. It's it's what people wanted all this time. So if the narrative was just because you know she went back to work with Dr. Luke, okay, I say life's too short.
00:15:16
Speaker
but because like and that's what I said I was like you are literally talking about a woman who was spraying like whipped cream out of her tits in a video I was like and you're gonna sit here and think that this song is a hundred percent serious right but I'm like I don't get it though like I just there was nothing about it that struck me as her as her being completely genuine about it like it was so on the nose Yeah, when has she ever been genuinely... She's so satirical. I am a fan. i have I met her at the Vegas meet and greet. I am a big, big Katy Perry fan. i so this is you know i am But I can also like call... like Also, I did not like the album. I thought Woman's World was the best song on the album. I think that I take was always that the album is sequenced improperly.
00:15:55
Speaker
Interesting. I'm sorry. Sequencing properly, and you guys both know my hill that I die on. I'm not... Too short, right. Too short. But they were all just kind of structured the same, and they all kind of followed the pattern. Almost all of them started with chorus, verse, chorus, verse, chorus. There were no... It's very, very Swedish. It feels very Swedish. My hot take is... Oh, is this supposed to turn into the Katy Perry podcast? Oh, no. My hot take, I...
00:16:25
Speaker
I don't want to say hated. I really did not like lifetimes. And people kept being like, if this had been the first single, it's like, then what? She would have flopped with this one too. I don't know. Out of all the dance songs, I don't think that was the best one. And I get why they were doing it, because I have a feeling that the Ariana Grande, yes and of it all, sort of pushed this. Because they were just like, oh, wait, we have a piano one too. Speaking of top 10. Right, right. Yes and my number four song on my Spotify wrapped.
00:16:55
Speaker
I think it was in my top 10. I think it was in my top 10. We should talk about that at the end of this movie. Oh, absolutely. Because for those people listening, Spotify Rap just dropped today. Although, you're all those acts and Apple Music girly, primarily. I have an Apple Music girly. We can talk about that, too. We can unwrap. We can replay. We don't judge. We don't judge here. OK, so let's keep moving on the list. So number 24 is Ed Sheeran. Congratulations. You know what? I was surprised he wasn't higher. I'll be honest.
00:17:26
Speaker
You know, it's one of those things where it's kind of like, I liken it in the sense of like, he's got a lot of commercial success, right? Especially with like the shape of you of it all. That was a yeah huge error for him. yeah um Perfect and perfect duet and all of that. He's very commercially successful. yeah But like, similarly, in the sense of like, dare I say Taylor Swift, like outside of the commercial success, what exactly are you impacting? I'm not really saying that he I don't think he's really like,
00:17:56
Speaker
been the most impactful on like culture and like the sound the sound of music but like i i feel like he has like he's someone who tours stadiums with a guitar and like a loop pedal and like sells them out um i feel ah and i also feel like you know within our our gay bubble, he's a little bit like, he's gotten a little bit of a Nickelback factor on him. In turn in a sense where it's like, when did the, I don't really remember when the Ed Sheeran hate train started. I just remember hearing people be like, Ed Sheeran sucks. And it was like- A pure backlash to success is what it feels like to me.
00:18:36
Speaker
i I do too, and and like I'm not bumping Multiply on the regular, but you know but like thinking out loud. Beautiful. Beautiful song. i i oh Oh, Castle on the Hill gets me very, very emotional. I think he he is an undeniable talent, and I feel like his level of... He has the second most streamed song of all time and on Spotify. I think that Don't, his earlier album, was it X? I think the first Don't, I thought was fantastic. Yeah. And I love that. And I think I love that it was also about Ellie Goulding, if I remember correctly.
00:19:06
Speaker
ah yes Yes, yeah, I guess I was surprised that he was um ah Below say I'm gonna say one direction only because they existed for such a short time. Right, right. Well, and so that's, we can get into this too, but that's where I feel like some of the weird inconsistencies a little bit in this list are, I guess, sort of strange because like on some of the entries they talked about how long the artists have been around. They'd be like, well, Billie Eilish didn't make it because she hasn't put out a lot of albums. And I'm like, but neither has Bad Bunny and neither has this one and neither has like Yeah. Dua Lipa, really. You know, and it's it's we. Right. You know, we just have like the. Yeah. And that's a bad bunny. And that's great. That's what shocked me about number twenty three was bad money. Bad, you know, because I was like, he's been around for so I guess. I mean, I guess he's been around for a bit. I believe he has the most streamed album of all time. I believe it.
00:19:59
Speaker
i I think so yeah like like cumulatively I will be honest i I don't know it's a language barrier thing I don't really listen to a lot of bad bunny and I think you know I I feel as though his impact is a lot bigger than his music at least I feel i agree and and because And that's because, like admittedly, I'm not really listening to a lot of music that is not in English. But like then you see the stats, and he ah he's like, the fact that he had the most streamed album on Spotify, I was like, oh my god, I do not know a single song on this. So i think i think I think his entry is like very much a commercial success thing, plus I think he's bringing, I feel, it would he be classified as reggaeton? Yeah, I would think so. I mean, I'm sure he does a lot of genres, but yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
yeah i think that there's like brought it mainstream And there's a fashion thing. I feel like he's very big when it comes to fashion. I feel like his whole relationship with, what's it, Judmos? I really hope so. Hopefully, really, really somebody somebody deserves that. Oh my God, who gets first? Please, dear God.
00:21:06
Speaker
But I feel like there's that. His Met Gala look was really good. Right, but I feel like it's that. I feel like it's his ally ship. Like he's also been very, very good with the LGBTQ community and has talked very openly about that. So I feel like, again, he's just, he's spoken very openly about Puerto Rico and how he stands about things like, you know, standing up for Puerto Rico. And I'm like, so I feel like there's just, I never hear anything really bad. So I'm like, you know what, I hear about you, you're relevant, you're all over the place. And let me tell you, When I play Bad Bunny in the club, they absolutely lose their mind every time. They turn and it doesn't matter what song could be any of them. What was this like big one? Titi Me Pergonto is one of my favorites. Yeah. Yeah. Me Porto Bonito is probably my biggest favorite, but yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
When I first started doing Peloton classes, I was doing Robin's core class, and she was playing that song, and then she like did it like back to back, I think, with ah J. Lo's Love's Right Loud, and I was like, okay, yeah, no, it felt, it it was very right, because let me tell you what, I was just going off on that. Okay, so next on the list, we have ah One Direction.
00:22:09
Speaker
which, I mean, I feel like 22 feels correct sure in a way, you know. I mean, i mean i I was surprised by some of the people who were below, but I do feel like low or like the 20s feels not incorrect for one direction. No. because yeah Just because they were, I mean, sure they weren't around for long, but they were a force.
00:22:31
Speaker
of course Yeah. Of course. Would you put them on Spice Girls level? Um, I feel like it's, yes, in a way. I, so, but that's hard for me to say because like I was not really paying attention to like pop culture when the Spice Girls were at their peak. Most, most things I know about the Spice Girls are things I know retroactively. I feel like it's, we're used to, Oh no, I was just going to say, I feel like it's such a different era. You know, because I feel like there wasn't like the internet of it all during the Spice Girls and they were still so massive.
00:23:03
Speaker
Could Spice Girls have sold out a stadium in 1998? Oh, yeah, they did. so and In America. Yeah, they did. In America. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Just because I know one direction was at like, they sold out at Dodger Stadium. Right, right. And a friend of mine was talking about that's when they saw them.
00:23:21
Speaker
that's ah I didn't realize that you okay or maybe' i'll let me tell you but but every girl that works on on my team at work on the music team they're all they're mostly girls and mostly women and they're all at least twenty years younger than me they have such extremely strong feelings about one direction to this day people have, like, core memories associated with one dimension. Right. So when Liam Payne just passed away when that whole thing happened, like, all I heard all day long was, like, stories about One Direction and just, like, different. It was crazy. I had no idea that it was actually that, like, serious. realize that.
00:23:53
Speaker
You were the one that broke that news to me. You literally had texted me some stuff about Lady Gaga and literally in the same breath was like, oh my god, Liam Payne died. And that was literally happening at work. People were texting and I was like, what? Literally. Wow. It went from like extreme high to extreme low. I'm so sorry. Wow. Sorry. Let me bring the room down. It was crazy.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah, I guess because I was gonna say like I you know, I love One Direction. I think they have a lot of incredible songs. But maybe it was just me being a little bit older when they like really yeah hit that I just didn't feel the impact the same as these young women. that Yeah, but I get it. I get it. They also they cranked out like an album a year. They did. Yeah, they they have like five albums. and I cannot keep track of which one's called which and which one came when.
00:24:38
Speaker
But they their output was quite prolific for the time they were together. Their second album has some. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Good job, One Direction. Way to go. Number 21, we've got Lil Wayne. um I was surprised to see him on here just because I didn't know what they were classifying as pop stars, but I guess anyone who is popular in music can make it on. I think this brings up a really great conversation. It's something that my brother and I were talking about over Thanksgiving is like, what is pop music? like What does that mean?
00:25:11
Speaker
And I had the same reaction as Yuzi. When I saw him on this list, I was like, oh, okay. I feel like in these contexts, it means popular music. I feel like what we think of pop music, we think of something very different and so do a lot of people, but that's where I feel like you've got to almost sub-genre a little bit because this is just popular music is what this is. Because this was the same thing. I felt exactly the same way. And I'm like, why is Lil Wayne?
00:25:36
Speaker
on the, like, yeah. Right. Yeah. And I also feel like his impact is, is, is greater than we know. Like, is, is he, is he the sort of like, I'm i'm going to completely show my ignorance here. Is he the one who like started young money or is he like the head of it? Yes. Okay. There you go. yeah So he gave us Nicki Minaj. Thank you, Lil Wayne. Yeah. Um, and also like three of his albums have pulled like Taylor Smith level debut. I mean, there which is yeah insane. like The Carter Three, I remember that being the biggest album debut of the year. lil ah Lil Wayne is one of my favorite rappers, for sure. Like when it comes to rap music. In 2008 or 2009, it's when I had first moved to Grand Rapids, I actually got into a debate with someone who was better, quote unquote, Madonna or Lil Wayne. What? You can't compare. It's like, what's better, oranges or skiing? It's like, right?
00:26:33
Speaker
That is crazy. Have they? done ah That does feel like has Madonna collaborated with him because I feel like someone that like, okay, that feels like some of that Madonna circle. It does feel like some of that Madonna circle, like.
00:26:46
Speaker
The 2010s had to have been, was it the MDNA era? oh no what was It was the celebration album. It was the second single from the celebration album and then yeah it was produced by DJ Frankie or something like that. I love when Madonna releases something and I'm like, what?
00:27:05
Speaker
What? Okay. No. And I think it was that I like laughed because I was that that was released like a year after our little debate and I was like, okay. All right. Yeah. Here we go. All right. And then number 20, we've got Bruno Mars. Now I'm surprised he's not higher. Same. ah You know, Bruno Mars is like the, like silent. No, not until I was going to say like silent killer of the charts, but like,
00:27:32
Speaker
I feel like we don't really think about him and because he's just constantly everywhere. But then you think about it, he's like had what, 11 number ones, has not lost a Grammy in eight years, yeah um is now the most listen most monthly listeners of any artist on Spotify. like he He has sort of been killing it on all fronts. Incredible live performer, incredible songwriter, not necessarily you know groundbreaking sonically,
00:27:59
Speaker
But in every other respect, I was like, damn, I think we can't really deny Bruno, and I think gay people like to. Which I don't understand, because I'm sorry, like the voice, the voice alone, he's like that's it. i Sometimes I'm like, he sings a little bit too much.
00:28:14
Speaker
But other than that, but like, but he also barely ever misses a note. Like I saw him live back in 2014 and I was just like, Jesus Christ. Like he hits, he sings like the record and then does more. Right. Wow. And that's like every interview I've ever seen of people talking about working with him, they have said that it's just like, it's unbelievable when this man is like singing in your face. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:35
Speaker
because Ava, what was the, he wrote one of my favorite Adele songs. All I ask. All I ask. I live. And I'm like, please let there be a demo version where he sings this. I would love to hear that. I mean, there's a video of him doing it live. He did like, it's like an AOL session, or one of those, or Vivo. It was when 24 Karat Magic came out. Oh my God. And he does it live, yeah. Bring back AOL sessions. Oh, I have to see that. Right, for real. Yeah. Walmart soundcheck. The Rihanna rated our AOL sessions. I downloaded the audio. Yes.
00:29:04
Speaker
Literally. Oh my god, that that version of Disturbia. Yes. Yes. Take us back. Seriously. Oh my gosh. Well, good job, Bruno. we'll talk More on her later. I'm sorry. like Die With a Smile is one of my favorite songs to see. Die With a Smile is song writing.
00:29:21
Speaker
right so right and is unbelievable and it while I'm a little bitter that it is stealing diseases thunder it really is I will I will you know what I'm happy for any success I don't think I don't gotta be honest I gotta be I love disease and love the video I love everything about it but like I tried playing it at the club the other night and I was like, it's a little intense. It's a little intense for this sort of venue. They played a remix of it. Like a 120 BPM-ified version of it at Precinct in LA the other night. And maybe it was because I was going off that I was like, everyone was going off. That's what I was going off. Everybody else is just like, I live, I live. I love that. But I don't think that anyone from their label expected the song to be as huge as it is. Oh, I know. I'm thinking that it was a one-off single. Which surprises me. With an iconic little visual. Oh my god. It's so good. I'm sorry. When that TikTok trend was going off of her doing the dance, I was like, this is amazing.
00:30:24
Speaker
ah It's so good. Oh my God. So good. So good. Well, number 19, we have BTS. I like how we are just like going through it one by one. yeah I know. That's fine. It's fine. Look, it's it's a lot of it is great. The production is on a level that I've never seen before. The music videos are like I don't like.
00:30:44
Speaker
Everybody is doing poorly compared to them. Yeah, like as far as I can tell and it's people go off Yeah, they they're like they were that act that for like a couple years like during the pandemic and like right after Any song they put out went to number one for at least one week because they have those and Right, right. And then they're going to be like, okay, next week, dynamite, the tropical version, dynamite, the strip version. I love the dynamite. That was the song I was trying to remember. I was talking about them with Jeff the other night and he was like, I couldn't sing one song. And I was like, I know two of them. And I was like, no butter. And I was, yeah and I was like, I couldn't put my finger on it.
00:31:19
Speaker
yes yeah and then dynamite that was the other one i was like dynamite was everywhere and what's right and they did like 17 versions yeah the the cool thing there's a little little fun little tidbit about dynamite it was written by two people written and produced by two people who were they let me tell you uh they is here i don't remember hang on let me look it up right now i believe they're like a couple or something but but it's one of those songs you could tell was like ah like Just because I've been in like songwriting sessions like this, they totally just were like, oh, we gotta write something to pitch. And then we just like wrote this in like 10 minutes and it just ended up being amazing. And we pitched it and it was just, it was just magic in the room. Okay. I'm going to find out right there. Cause I remember I looked them up and they were like not famous.
00:32:01
Speaker
of my BTS song. They're just like, you know what? Let's write a song tonight. Let's just write a song. Oh, David Stewart. And Jessica Agambar. Not Dave Stewart from that one. I'm going to set a stroke. No, no, no, no, no. There is a David Stewart. He's a writer, producer in LA. He's young. He works with the Scarlet Opera. Oh, where? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it was him. He produced it and wrote it. And then Jessica.
00:32:30
Speaker
Aginbar, A-G-O-M-B-A-R, also wrote it, just the two of them. Interesting. And he produced it. David Stewart just produced it, yeah. I mean, it's also, it is a one-note verse, but whatever, it's fine. It actually says in the entry, in the Wikipedia entry for Dynamite, it says, intended to soothe listeners during the COVID-19 pandemic. It worked. It worked. I was bumping it. There were some soothing happening, maybe some other things. Right, bumping that. And now COVID is gone. Right, BTS. No longer exists.
00:32:59
Speaker
cured COVID. I had no idea. ah Number 18, I'm shocked at the this dis placement is The Weeknd. It's kind of same. Yeah, I don't understand it. and It's massive, that the scale of The Weeknd. Same. It was a slow burn for me, but like I love him now. Oh my god. I actually do not love his early, early stuff. Right. It's a little i think maudlin for me. Yes. i sort of I think my point of entry is, where was it with him? Mine was lovely and harder.
00:33:32
Speaker
Oh wow. and then And then earned it. With with her with with or without Ariana? ah With Ariana. And then from that Fifty Shades came out and then I heard that song and then i can then you know then I think a few months later his um Be Behind the Madness came out. Okay. My entry was his remix of Mary the Night.
00:33:54
Speaker
Oh, no, shockingly, I'm not that familiar with that. Yeah, it's very it's like a dark, um like lower template, like slower BPM version. Oh, I wouldn't like that then. it No. And and I wasn't saying I didn't like it. I was like, Oh, what is this? like And so then then I was like, OK, the weekend and then and then I was but like the year after is when he came out with can't feel my face. And then I was like, Oh, here we go. Yeah. So yeah.
00:34:20
Speaker
And I feel like he's just gotten better and better and better and like more like refined and sophisticated as like and as ah as a pop artist. yeah So, you know, you know, Zach, how you're always talking about your top 100. I feel like in his eyes with Kenny G is in my To be the version with Kenny G. I mean, anytime a song is a saxophone solo, I immediately am obsessed. Yes. Yeah. Even if the rest of the song sucks. Right. Right. Right. But that, that. That would be a top 100. It is perfection. Love. I love that song after hours.
00:34:56
Speaker
yeah I literally, maybe I'm incriminating myself here. I just sent it to my producer and I was like, I want my next era to sound like this beat drop right here. were Like, like hey it's so like minimal, but impactful and it builds. It spends like two and a half minutes before it even, like the beat even drops. And when it does, it's so satisfying. And it's like five minutes and a half minutes long. Thank God. And you know, I love a build. I love a good, I love it. Edge me.
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, right it's it's so, yeah, he's he's really, I feel like, because I feel like that first album, like the first like ah debut album, The Beauty Behind the Manus, it was a lot of good songs, but they all kind of felt like pop songs that were kind of like meant to like curate an emerging artist as opposed to like him finding his sound. Right. Yeah.
00:35:42
Speaker
And I will say the other one that I feel like nobody ever talks about that's one of my favorite weekend songs is Rockin' from Starboy. Yes. Oh my god, yes. ah It is such a bop. Yeah. Such a bop. I remember when that song leaked online, it was rumored that Justin Timberlake helped write it. I don't think that's true. But it's it's a Max Martin song.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah. and yeah Oh my God. That's good. and That's very good. Oh my gosh. So now we've got you on camera doing Michael Jackson. and Oh my God. Which is essential a lateral, a lateral move really. ra Right. Right.
00:36:16
Speaker
Oh my god, so I heard this. Okay, this is, you know, i've I've said online this week that the only thing I like AI for is making songs sound like they were song by other singers. There was a version of I feel a coming AI Michael Jackson and it sounded fucking amazing I want to hear that yeah it's I mean if you just search it on tiktok it'll pop right up it sounds so I have I have an AI version of Justin Timberlake song selfish done as Mariah Carey oh my god I'm gonna send it to you because it will absolutely
00:36:48
Speaker
No, and it will blow your mind. And the thing that scares me is how the AI has been trained to get the break in her voice from like chest to head okay is wild to me. And like you have to hear it. It is absolutely mind-blowing. It's the craziest thing I've ever heard. But it's so good. And and I was like, this is better than Justin. So sorry. Oops. Oops. Sorry. OK. 17 is Shakira. OK. I was a little surprised to see her this high.
00:37:15
Speaker
Okay. or or am or i don't know Here's the thing. i i
00:37:21
Speaker
I'm not that familiar with Shakira. Here's the thing. she's she's another ah The Latin artists, the Latin music community stream. they are Yeah, they do. that they know and that's yeah and that's I'm showing you know my cultural ignorance here. like like I know that Shakira is like the superstar in like probably many other parts of the world.
00:37:42
Speaker
But that's what's so interesting with streaming these days is that you can have streaming huge numbers and people will be like, I've never heard this song ever. Fucking Ava Max. What the hell? Ava Max. Every song's got a billion. Right. Oh, my gosh. so Someone in one of my followers, their most streamed song of the year was what whatever. Oh, my God. Speaking of Shakira.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I am sorry. like And i that is one I cannot. I just cannot do. No, it's just it's just at this point, it's kind of like, OK, so she knows and she's just making this her thing. Right. We're just pillaging like past. We did not make the list. She did not make the list? You know what? The fact that that that that is an iconic enough song to to sample or know to interpolate.
00:38:29
Speaker
ah You know what, I'm not denying Shakira's impact. and a lot of you know And a lot of these I'm acknowledging that it's just like just because I don't really know right them does not mean that they haven't earned their spot on the list. I mean, Shakira's on the fucking Super Bowl. Right, she has permanent cultural importance for the Beautiful Liar music video. Mmm, yes, yes, yes. Yeah, yeah. Queer icon. I do that constantly. when I live. When I'm just like walking around in my apartment, I'm just kind of like...
00:38:57
Speaker
I live. No, but I mean, I think that she's like, i she had a moment a few years ago when she did the, do you know who Bizzle Rap is? Yes. Yes, a Spanish producer, yeah Latin producer, and ah very, very big deal. like but Has huge numbers, like has worked with a lot a lot of people. And so I think she was going through her divorce, and she got in the studio with him. If I remember this correctly, don't hate me if I if i get it wrong. But I think because one of her kids said, this would be really, really cool if you got into the you know studio with this producer. He's very hot, sort of whatever. She did this track with him. It completely blew up.
00:39:31
Speaker
her like like the guy that she was divorcing was like putting out things in the paper about it. There was like a whole like cultural moment happening around her. And this is only like two years ago, I think. Yeah. Maybe a year ago. Yeah. But it gave her a hit in America. Right. Right. Right. Right. So, you know, I'm here for it. Yeah. Let's celebrate that Shakira. Yeah. Let's celebrate that. Let's celebrate that. Number 16, we've got Jay-Z. Another one where I was like, oh, pop music. But then when you think about it, like,
00:40:00
Speaker
Probably. well so Right, they're saying 25 years. So 25 years ago, so this is 2000. So in 2000... Was that the Black album? Or Black? Hold on. Blueprint? or but is that come on I mean, they both came out, I think, and within the last 25 years. Yeah.
00:40:18
Speaker
There's and there's he had like a bunch of albums there's 99 problems, but if it's a one is like one of the iconic phrases of of Culture. Yes blueprint is yes 2001 blueprint black album is 2003 blueprint to yeah, so 2001 blueprint 2002 blueprint to 2003 black album he's just been omnipresent in culture right so long that like I don't even like think of him as like a individual album by album anymore. He's just, Jay-Z is there and he, you know, he is he is the, he's Mr. Carter. right He's Mr. Beyonce. knowles carter He really is. Favorite Jay-Z song, Heartbreaker. I was just gonna say that. ah What is more favorite? I'm not like super duper well versed, but I remember I got the black album on CD.
00:41:10
Speaker
And I really liked the song Change Clothes featuring Pharrell. were Oh, yeah. and No, I gotta to be honest. My favorite Jay-Z song is probably Can I Get A? Can I Get A? Oh, yeah. That takes me back. I love yeah the Rush Hour soundtrack. That's a great one. Can I Get A? What? What?
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah. Ah, so good. Featuring Emile, right? Who was never heard from a scene ever again. Ever again. Do not know who that is. Although she was featured on a remix of Mariah Carey's I Still Believe. And then found dead. And then found dead. Yeah. And then found dead. Sorry if she actually is. Sorry. Next up, we have Miley Cyrus. You know?
00:41:53
Speaker
I do believe she should be on this list. I think this is a little high for her. It feels high for me, too. Yeah, I kind of agree. and Unless it's sort of just like like cultural presence, maybe like I feel like she's had like, you know, three moments where she was everywhere, which is sort of like the sort of Hannah Montana breaking into Miley era.
00:42:15
Speaker
uh bangers and then flowers right um i think i think she's a household name but like she's not really an album artist she i don't see her that way i feel like the most album that she ever put out was sort of like younger now i felt was like the most like interesting i will say i have not listened to that i know malibu and that's about it. I mean it's not my favorite album by any means but I just like I felt like that was or even you know what I loved Plastic Hearts. Plastic Hearts was good. It was so many good songs. Yeah that's the one yeah the one that's the remix with Stevie Nicks. Yeah incredible. I love that and also the one
00:42:58
Speaker
The one with um Joan Jett, Bed Karma. Any time she had the the shaggy mullet, Go Figure, I love it. Yeah, yeah literally. ah There was also a song on there that was... I take it back, Miley should be higher.
00:43:14
Speaker
At least sometimes she's just going to walk it through. I guess it's... I'll start going. on i just i Yeah, I just... I feel bad saying this. I'm probably going to get canceled, but I I kind of forget about Miley. Like, I know that she's there. I know that she's ah a huge celebrity. I love her as a person. I think that she is hysterical. She clearly loves her gays. I just kind of forget that she's around. I think she's I think, you know, in this case, it's it's an impact thing because she has, you know, ah
00:43:48
Speaker
been around for, she's had so many different iterations of her career. right And she's always- Right, it's a demographic thing. Yeah, and she's always managed to come back, and she's always been likable. And she does have hits. There's no denying hits. Oh, for sure. So I think it's just been like, even though she's never been the main girl, except arguably maybe like wrecking ball era. Right. And that was kind of like her and Lorde. I would say it's just been like a consistency thing for her. Yeah. Yeah. like she's she's never like She's never not been someone that like has always maintained some form of relevance. I love, can't be tamed, I was such a fan of. yeah My favorite Miley's song might be Slide Away. Ooh, that's a good one. That's a really good one. what's which to really which is yeah Which is a rare song where the verses are the same and the pre-choruses are different. Ooh, interesting. Writing nerd. I love that, I love that. um Next we have Justin Timberlake.
00:44:46
Speaker
Okay. I have some thoughts, but you guys go first. Okay. So actually, Zach, you go first.
Spotlight on Pop Stars: Justin Timberlake, Usher, and Adele
00:44:56
Speaker
Hot potato, hot potato. Right, right, right. I feel, okay. Here is, ah here's my hot take. This placement feels appropriate to me. Yes. Yes, it does. It feels very appropriate because let's be real. Justin Timberlake like him or he him.
00:45:10
Speaker
had massive success and a huge impact both in music and culturally with his SNL skits from what, 2002 is when his debut album came out all through 2016. He? Okay. Thank you. Yeah. And I feel bad saying this. I'm not, I'm not, um,
00:45:31
Speaker
advocating for any any personal things he's done or any thing he's done musically in the last seven years. But this revisionist history and look, I love me some J.C. Chazay, but I feel like we are revising Justin's talent and place in history. ah Let's not pretend he didn't put out three perfect albums in a row. Right. Right. Right. Right. Justified future sex love sounds. And to me, 2020 experience so Bangers start to finish. that Let the group get in. Oh my God. fucking ah Push your love love girl.
00:46:10
Speaker
ah ah strawberry mu ah Oh my God. strawberry but but ah asking your fucking love to day that the day the man up Oh my He really had a hold on like and like that. I think even musically had an impact. Like he, him and Timbaland? Well, but I would, I would almost wonder though, do I feel like that's more Timbaland's impact? Perhaps, but Timbaland's not on the list. I know. oh no and Which maybe he should be. Honestly, now that I think about it, so let's do I think Timbaland could be on the honorable mentions now that I'm looking here. Like like if Kelly Clarkson can be on honorable mentions.
00:46:51
Speaker
If Kesha can be on honorable mentions, I think Timbaland. yeah If Nellie can be on the... item No, we're not even Furtado. Right. Yeah. yeah there's there's like There's the comparison that we want. Kelly Clarkson versus Timbaland. You know what? I think Timbaland could have done some good shit with Kelly Clarkson and made her interesting again because I am in my Kelly Clarkson hater era.
00:47:16
Speaker
Are you a little bit? I'm sick of the kelioki shit. I'm sorry. i will say are Are you sick of it or are you sick of people saying that it's better than the original version? I think i think that is not helping.
00:47:30
Speaker
I think as I always know how she's gonna sound singing all these songs, she's gonna sound perfect and she's gonna sound... I don't think she has an interesting voice. Like, hot take. No, there have only been two karaoke songs that I feel like have stood the test of time for me. One of them is happier than ever. Yeah, I thought we were gonna say that. Because I do believe that that's actually... I do like that better than the original. And while I don't like this better than the original, I probably like it as same as the original, is heavy on my heart Florence and the Machine. Okay, I don't know that I'm familiar with that one. Okay, cool, cool. And here's the thing, I voted my heart out for Kelly Clarkson. She is my American Idol. I'm sorry that we're backtracking to the honorable mentions right now. No, but it's... Yeah, I just feel like the last three albums she's put out have made like no impact beyond her core fan base and I and I don't know the it kind of feels like she's like a bit of an adult contemporary legacy like her and pink a little bit are occupying a similar size. Yes, I agree with you there and I just more interesting voice.
00:48:36
Speaker
I feel like the record labels just don't know what to do with either of them. So they're just like, okay, well we know that they're gonna sell at some point. And and here's the thing, and like their and their appeal does not have to be like a fucking Taylor Swift level chart success. like They are doing just fine.
00:48:52
Speaker
Pink's live shows are fucking amazing. Kelly is killing it on this TV show. They're amazing. I don't wanna take that away. I just think Kelly Clarkson- I don't need that to prove anything. Yeah, I just think Kelly Clarkson as a singer, I'm a little bored. I want to, honestly, go put that girl on Broadway. Ooh, yes! Right, that's what I wanna see. Go do that, because I feel like the TV show thing is great, and I totally love that for you, and she looks great now, and I feel like she's totally feeling herself.
00:49:20
Speaker
I feel like that's where I want your voice to go. Yeah. Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. Her and Broadway. Anyway, so Justin Timberlake. Sorry. Justin Timberlake, congratulations. I know. But like I said, look, yeah all the Britney things aside. Yes. All the Britney things aside, like the Britney of it all, we all understand and we all feel a certain way. We're going cannot deny yeah we're gonna have to put some like ah personal feelings aside for some people coming up on the list.
00:49:43
Speaker
you i' Right because I'm sorry like that justified album really like that was a turning point like nothing else and last night are still to Rock your body but like Rock your body is incredible. singorrita Yeah, and and you know that was actually an album that I didn't really appreciate when it came out because I was like 12 and I didn't really like it was and it was a lot of like like slow R and&B and And like yeah now I can kind of appreciate like the craftsmanship and the writing and like the the like the vocal layering and all that. Yeah. Well, and I think it's also he's got other things. He's got his restaurants. He's got his other like ventures and stuff. like He's got social clubs or something. I just saw one just open in New York City. Oh, really? Yeah. It's just that him and Tiger Woods. It's called T Squared Social.
00:50:24
Speaker
You might say men of the woods. yeah o men of the woop you know ah Men of the tiger woods. Oh my god. Men of the woods. You know what? would I liked Filthy.
00:50:40
Speaker
I loved it. It was very weird yeah and not necessarily a smash, but it was, she tried something different. It was different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give him that. I think for me, Man of the Woods, there was an album trailer and this was kind of like when people started doing album trailers that came out that led it to be like it was going to sound different. So then when he, like so then when he dropped Filthy, I think that's where people were like, well, wait a minute.
00:51:07
Speaker
Like, this is not what you were just teasing in your album trailer. And so- Well, but this is what I was saying on one of the other things that we recorded, where I said, I was like, you have the ones that are clearly like, this is the radio song. And then you have what the artist actually wants to do. Right. Yeah. So, Man of the Woods. Best album of all time. Great way to leave that one off. Anyway. Legacy. Legacy. Legacy. Number 13, we have Nicki Minaj. You know what? I feel like I could have seen Nicki top 10.
00:51:38
Speaker
Potentially I just yeah, you know, I mean, I'm sorry you go culturally. Yeah, no, no, yeah I was culturally Yeah, I just feel like she has been so she has been like so present Just in in our lives and in music and the charts and just she she changed she kind of changed rap it felt like Well, I felt like it was the red one of it all yeah, she I feel like she I ZM with you in the sense of like she she took rap and she I felt like she almost made it gay in a sense. Like she embraced being really yeah um campy campy campy. Yeah. and and And and was not afraid to play with genre. Like an element of drag. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:52:28
Speaker
I mean, my introduction to Nicki Minaj was woohoo with k Christina. Oh my God, same. hu yeah we all mur We are seriously. I think it was either that or it was out about out my face with Mariah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then l smiley face. Have a nice day.
00:52:47
Speaker
No, woohoo. I was like, ah I live for that. yeah Yeah. Right. Yeah. So good. And she also did a song with ah Robin Thicke at the time, Shakin' It for Daddy. Oh, yeah. Oh, was that on the Lord Ryan's album? No. No, no, that was earlier. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was sex therapy or something like that. OK. OK. That's what the album was. But yeah, banger. So good. But yeah, I mean, I I.
00:53:09
Speaker
The only I feel like my one of my main issues with Nicky is sometimes is like when you get so big and I'm sure it's difficult to when you get so big doing one type of thing like Starships so massive and like that whole like pound the alarm when she was doing it right and that's what I mean is that when you get to that point you gain this enormous audience based on this type of thing and then you're just like I hate the song I'm never gonna perform it again and I'm like girl like what do you mean yeah yeah Like that all stuff bothers me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that. And I'm like, yeah. And she's got it's she got really numbers obsessed. I mean, and all of her Twitter. I mean, and she yeah she is. I don't believe she's a very good person. I kind of like. Yeah. Yeah. yeah Personally, this has been some moments. Yeah. I just I just think like from an impact standpoint, like I definitely could have seen her on par with some of the people who are in the top 10.
00:54:04
Speaker
Right. Yeah. But like when I see like things like the weird like, I don't know if she'd call it a feud, but like the weirdness between her and Megan Thee Stallion. I'm like, grant she went on her right. And I'm like, there is just no reason like you two would be so incredible together. Like I don't know how you don't see that. Like it's right. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Feuding fandoms. Feuding fandoms. We love you, Nikki. Number 12, Eminem.
00:54:31
Speaker
You know, I could see it. I mean, if this feels a little, you know, if this list had been made in 2010, I feel like he could have been top 10. Yeah. Yeah. um I just feel like I'm not. I feel like he's one of those people it's like every time he puts something out, even though we don't. And also, you know, I'm also realizing that I'm looking at this from a gay lens.
00:54:55
Speaker
um He just seems to stay forever relevant to the general public, even though I'm not really tuned into his every move. Like he dropped an album this year and it was the one time where Taylor got ousted from the top of the charts. Right. Yeah. um So he's got there. There's something there still. i remember I do remember a time where I was actually very into him around the Eminem show era. Yep. Which was still this century.
00:55:22
Speaker
So for taking that into consideration, he was a fucking real sim shady after that. There was definitely a time where he could have been, I think he was the biggest artist in the country. Even on Peloton, when we did a M&M artist series, I want to say that his class is, some of his classes are still in the biggest on the platform, period, full stop. People absolutely went crazy over this. His comeback in the 2010 of it all was, love the way you lie,
00:55:52
Speaker
like oh yeah where he's like just like angry. He's kind of lost a lot of the humor he I feel like he used to have. Yeah, that's what happens when it he gets over. Yeah. Yeah. Let's celebrate that. Yeah. No, okay rat dam I of I kind of feel similarly in the sense of like with the next one, Usher at number 11. I love Usher. Love Usher. But I also feel like it has been a minute since he's had like a yeah dominant success.
00:56:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I mean, while he does have, I think it's the what, the second biggest album of the century, the century. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Well, I guess I'm sorry. Go on. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. I was just I'm like looking through like the discography right now and I'm like trying to see like recently where where he sort of like lies because like I'm seeing things and I'm like, I don't know. There's a lot of songs here that I am just completely unfamiliar with.
00:56:48
Speaker
Yeah. And then, but like he'll show up every once in a while, whether it's like not even just like a random song that like ends up being a really big deal. Right. He's on that Jungkook song that I really liked. Yes. Yes. And like excellent. It's so good. That video is excellent. Oh yeah. dancing good Yeah. Yeah. He had a song on his album that came out this year called Big that I loved. It was a bop. Okay. Okay.
00:57:09
Speaker
I feel like if I look like he's, the last time I think he charted was in, what is this? This is a Summer Walker song, Good Good, with Summer Walker and 21 Savage. okay And this is 2023, yeah, I don't know, November 25 on the charts. But before that, it's like 2019. So there's moments. like yeah he he is He is an icon and I do think he should be on this list. This does feel a little high.
00:57:35
Speaker
It does feel a little high for for his recent impact. Yes, correct. And that's and that's how I'm kind of looking at it right now. I will say he is, I think the re like, I don't want to say the reason I'm gay, but like he's ah how I knew I was gay, baby. Yeah, he is. He is like my sister showed me a photo of him in his underwear. Right. Yeah. Right. And like Teen Vogue, I was like 11 years old, 12 years old. And I was like, I remember it was ah those Fenty the was it no not Fenty was Skims.
00:58:04
Speaker
yeah that he just did those skims underwear at, please. I remember there was like, I had some like J14 magazine back in like 2002, 2003. And there was like some, you know, it was probably, I honestly think those interviews are like, they just make them up. um But there was an article in there that was like, Usher does a thousand crunches a day to get his abs. And I was like, okay, all right, one.
00:58:29
Speaker
Two. And I was like, 13. But I remember Usher being like one of the hot men of the moment. Yeah. Right. Right. Oh, yeah. I've never won. No, he's definitely sexy. And he's still got I mean, and like. look Oh, yeah. Fucking Super Bowl halftime performer of which there are quite a few on on this list, which. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:52
Speaker
Let me tell you, he put out, in 2020, he was on Black Coffee's album. He has a song called La La La with him. That was one of my favorite songs that year. If you don't know it, it is so good. Ooh, I'm going to have to look it up. So good. So sexy. So sexy. And I will say also, in my senior year of high school, the whole Confessions album was the soundtrack of that year. Well, that's one of, I feel, the defining cultural albums of the past 25 years in a lot of ways. For sure.
00:59:18
Speaker
Like I think I think up until like it's like 21 and ah Confessions are the two best selling albums of of the of the century, I think. Oh, really? I think so. OK. I mean, correct me if I mean, I could I'm sure that's easy to correct. But I do I do remember Adele breaking that record. Wow. Well, I think I think Hybrid Theory by Lincoln Park might be top five as well.
00:59:45
Speaker
Now all I need is an usher and Adele collab. That would actually go off. And yes. Right. area Yeah. Yeah. That would be amazing. Speaking of Adele site number 10.
00:59:57
Speaker
and This feels correct. Yes, yes. It's wild because when you consider like the fact that she does not have many albums. Yeah, but the last does have right. The last three have been just massive. Yeah, specifically 21 and 25. But yeah, they felt they've all been massive in different ways, though. Yes. Yes. One song I will always go back to is a million years ago. Oh, interesting, because that is ah I mean, it's so moody. No, no, um you know, no shade. That might be like bottom two songs of that album for me. No, I get that. I love in the dark. I'm like, we're kind of in the dark. All right. It's all right. Years ago. Is that from twenty five? ah Is it? Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like her and like a guitar. OK. So, OK. The theater almost.
01:00:51
Speaker
who That's probably why I like it the DJ that the DJ that did Deborah Cox's I never knew is this name pronounced honey, honey, honey Honey did a bootleg remix of million years ago that I loved work. I tried doing a remix of it, but I never got to finish it why it was so good It was so so good. It should yeah, I just I don't know I there's something about like the break in her voice I don't what it I don't know what it's called, but it's just like when it cracks and it like yeah, yeah yeah i feel it She she's um She's kind of in a realm of her own. Yeah. Because it's like, you know, there are, let's be honest, like. ah So many people making music like she is, but something about she was in the right place the right time, had the right songs and had that. And also that voice is just undeniable. um And the personality. Yeah. And paired with the personality. Yeah, for sure. I think that one bottle.
01:01:46
Speaker
right and what why it works because even like when I look at like early interviews of her like on the Graham Norton show or like just doing like whatever other the chat shows she has been who she is the entire time the oh line is this is me and that's it take her to leave it and her personality has always been like shown through and it's just been the same so I'm like whatever it is you're selling lady I'm buying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's celebrate that. Our first top 10. Our first top 10. Number nine, we've got Ariana Grande. yeah Also feels right. Ms. Glinda. It does. You know what? It's weird because number nine feels right for Ariana Grande and 10 does feel right for Adele, but Ariana Grande being above Adele, I was a little surprised. Doesn't feel right.
Ariana Grande's Evolution and Impact
01:02:31
Speaker
way but You know, it's weird because I feel like Ariana Grande is is an in in in 2024 more culturally become more culturally relevant in more of like a slow burn kind of way. Even if her sales like I don't think she's ever really burned up the album sales charts. I just think she is someone who has like cultivated a fan base has really defined a sound for herself as we've seen her evolve and be like
01:03:00
Speaker
so many different aspects of her, that it's kind of like, if you had asked us in, you know, 2015, who was a bigger artist, we'd be like, are you fucking kidding me? But now, 10 years later, it's kind of like, well, Ariana Grande has proven to be like a cultural institution in a way.
01:03:17
Speaker
Well, I feel it's I love that you said slow burn because I feel like her career has kind of been a slow burn in a way because what's interesting is that she's been commercially successful for quite some time since her debut album. However, like, and I use dangerous woman era as like ah an example of this people always talk about into you being like,
01:03:36
Speaker
oh it's her one of her best hits it was huge the peak at number 25 it was like ah yeah I did not it was not a top ten hit we're just like no sweetie you're just gay yeah i am yeah yeah yeah and the thing is that people kind of forget that and don't realize that that up it it wasn't she didn't start getting into her smash hit after smash hit after smash hit era until thank you next mm-hmm And she had a lot of songs that I feel like you know would linger around the top 10, but you'd hear on the radio at all the time. So for Ariana with me, it's kind of just been like, she's i I can't remember an era where I'm not hearing Ariana Grande, right right which which I think plays into that just like je ne sais quoi type of vibe, where it's just like, I can't explain it. She's just ah she's just one of the greatest.
01:04:23
Speaker
of this entry and I didn't quantify it. No, and let me tell you, and as somebody who like will get sent like stems of songs of stuff, like I feel about her, like I feel about Katy Perry actually, is that when you get the stems to one of their songs and you break it down and you listen to the layering and you listen to the background vocals and you hear the ad libs and you can really sort of piece the part, the vocals are unreal. I mean, vocal producer of of the decade.
01:04:50
Speaker
Right, like incredible. Like she's like those two little clips we've seen. Right. ah her like goes getting front of this computer yeah Right. But like, I'm sorry, like touch it is one of my favorite. I think yeah one of the best songs I think she's ever done. Dangerous woman. Dangerous woman. Okay. You know, I mean, famously hate it. And greedy and greedy. No, no, she famously hates it. Yeah, she doesn't like it. Wild. I will say and this is my bad take. My favorite Ariana Grande album start to finish is My Everything. it it work It is not consistent, but every single song I enjoy, like I don't think there's any song in there that I think is worse than like a B. Right. that's that's No, for real. it's a obama yeah Problem one last time. One last time. I'm sorry. As far as Dance Pop goes, break free. Break motherfucking free. Right. Yeah. Right. it's Every time. It's really oooh.
01:05:48
Speaker
Bang, bang. That's the bang bang. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say yeah I'll save my homophobic moment for you later at the end of the episode because you just you just triggered something in me about free. So, OK. Oh, OK. Yeah. All right. I can't. I'm trying to look at the rest of the list and see what what could have what it could have triggered. and Anyway, i love Ariana. I think Eternal Sunshine is a revelation. I think she smashed it as Glinda.
01:06:13
Speaker
I think she number nine is well earned. Yeah. right And i will I will also say that I do think that The Boy Is Mine with Brandy and Monica is the better version. Oh, yeah. Interesting. OK. I yeah. Yeah. I was I as soon as they when she released the music video and I saw Brandy Monica and I was like, oh, this remix coming. I just I just knew it. And I remember posting it on Instagram. People were like, no, that's not happening. and I was like, bitch, don't wait. This isn't like Beyonce teasing visuals. OK, exactly. That damn horse lady. And on the opposite spectrum, I think the sand with Mariah is the inferior version.
01:06:49
Speaker
I'm not gonna disagree with you and I'm a lamb. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah But that you know what? got the mixing you Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And that's what I said. I said, I'm sorry, but it is clear to me that whoever, whether it's her, whether it's somebody else, whoever is in the studio on her albums was not in the studio on this album.
01:07:08
Speaker
Yeah. On this. Yeah. but Yes. Yes. I mean, Ariana did like jokingly say to like, so I think it was Serban who did the mixing of it. She said, make hers vocals as loud as positive. She's like, make me quiet out of whatever. And so I mean, that was the wrong choice. Yeah. I you know i think in Mariah, not me giving ah songwriting advice to Mariah, but like I think if she had done the the thing where sometimes they'll like do a second verse, that's just completely different. Whereas Mariah like um did the same melody, and that is just like not in the way Ariana sings, it is very like light and effortless. and when marih
01:07:44
Speaker
You know, Mariah, we don't really know how old she is anymore, but like her voice, when she sings in that range, it that is like a a belt for her now. yeah And that is not a belty section. Right. Yeah. And I just want i'm I'm so curious to know like how Mariah felt singing over basically a beat that was identical to Madonna's Vogue. I mean, they were they were all doing it back in the 90s. I mean, really it was that that sort of CNC Music Factory starter kit. Yeah.
01:08:13
Speaker
um okay and and okay One of my favorite songs of the year, so good.
Justin Bieber's Journey to Cultural Icon
01:08:18
Speaker
um Number eight, we have Justin Bieber. You know what? I am proudly a Belieber. A Belieber. Oh my God. like Like honestly, there is a, and you know, it kind of started as like ironic, but like from my world 2.0, all the way up into like purpose,
01:08:38
Speaker
And even some of, was it justice? Like there are always at least like four or five songs on each album that I like wholeheartedly love. sure yeah And for someone who we kind of thought was like a corny internet fad for about a year, the fact that he has become so endlessly relevant and like made such like, I feel like interesting musical choices along the way. um I have to commend him for that.
01:09:05
Speaker
Yeah, I really liked Believe in Purpose a lot. Oh, yeah. Believe was, yeah. Believe in Purpose was great. Yeah, I've never really been into it that much. I think that there's a few songs. I can't say that the man is not successful by all means. I'll never take that away from him or that he's not talented. But I don't know if it was a timing thing for me that I was just never trying to look. I mean, he's definitely not for everyone. Purpose was a great album. Right, right. Right. But I love some of the really, as long as you love me,
01:09:34
Speaker
I love that song. Oh my god, yeah. I love that song. That whole out of that album, again, not consistent, but just wall to wall bangers. Right, right. there Because there was one song on on purpose that I liked and now I'm looking at the, I have no idea, I can't think of the name of it, I have to listen.
01:09:48
Speaker
No, I liked that, but it was one of the, I think it was like an album track. oh Was it like Children? yeah Maybe. was it Oh, that was kind of like his corny Michael Jackson song. Like, what about Children? No, not that. No. I like the changes album I didn't like. I was like, all right. You know what? I like Yummy. I like Yummy. Okay, good. What was the changes?
01:10:12
Speaker
Yeah, you're gonna hear me. Yeah, I completely forgot that. Yeah. So he did a performance. So there was this one performance see that where he he went to that era where he looked like a drowned rat. He was looking like Rizzo, a drowned harass rat. And he got a harass rat and he performed on SNL and it was a script and he so it was doing yummy looking like. Disgusting. Yeah. And it starts out just like him and like I want to say like cello.
01:10:40
Speaker
just singing and he sounded so good and then the track kicked in and then he just was starting he was hitting all that i was like damn this bitch still fucking has it like i cannot deny that like every time he he's he hits his mark i i'm just like i'm such a fan i can't help it he and he's got a voice that's kind of like i've heard rihanna describe is like it's it's very producible Right. If that makes sense. Like like even if he's and like there's just something about the tone and like the the timbre and the texture which are all three words for sort of the same thing. This is phrasing and and his tone are just they're so recognizable.
01:11:23
Speaker
I think we found the name for your podcast. There you go. Tone and tambour. Tone, tambour, and texture with Z machine. Yes. I love this. Yeah. Okay. No, he does have a great voice. He does. Yeah. yeah And this this feels this kind of feels correct because again, similar to like One Direction and some of the other entries on this list, I feel like he had quite the impact. I think he was a phenomenon when he blew, he when he first burst onto the scene. Oh. and and Also, like, Where Are You Now with Skrillex? Oh, that was like massive. And even recently, Stay would not have been a hit without him. True. True. Yeah. Oh, my God. I forgot that. That song was never one for how long? It was it was a huge. It was huge. Right. And yeah. Amazing song. Way too short. Yeah. Yeah. And way too short. We haven't even mentioned it. Despacito. You know what? This man does not stop with the heads. Right. and there is nothing that should have brought him close to louise ponzi at all but i think i mean he couldn't sing it again if it's life depend on it
01:12:30
Speaker
Right. Right. that that's There was a live performance that he was just sort of like me um and and and i made there was like ah like an iPhone like video someone took of him like at like a karaoke bar and they put right like the microphone up to his mouth. And he was and he was literally like da da da da burrito. Right. Tomato, potato. Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah. and Not the lu Luis Fonsi song. I wanted to go be a big hit, but you know, whatever.
01:12:53
Speaker
justice for that duet with Christina Luis Fonsi not on the list. Yeah, not on the list when I was actually so and this is again showing my like, I'm sorry, like side step here, like i'm i'm you know i'm I'm not super cute into a lot of like Latin music. My main producer is from and lives in Mexico. And when I was there earlier this year to record some stuff, he was like, oh yeah, Luis Fonsi and Daddy Yankee are like two of the biggest music stars of like all time here. Icons. and i' Icons. And i'm like the the first time I heard about like someone like Daddy Yankee was when he was the only celebrity to endorse John McCain.
01:13:32
Speaker
and and And that was wild. I know. And I was like, who is I was like, who is this flop? Who is you? You're like Kia daddy Yankee, daddy Yankee of John McCain fame. Oh, exactly. Only to find out that he is like the enormous star. Yeah. Right. So, you know, that just goes. That's the lens I'm viewing this list through just for context. I love that. and I love that. Well, number seven, we've got Mr.
Kanye West's Controversial Influence
01:13:57
Speaker
West Kanye West.
01:13:59
Speaker
You know what, let's be real. It feels correct. but The chaos and everything aside, if you separate the person from the art because it is not what this list is about, you cannot deny the impact. You cannot deny the cultural impact. You cannot deny how many people. I mean, he's produced Madonna. He's produced like so many people. like you just You can't get away from it. yeah yeah Even though his music per se recently, I do not think has been good. yeah and he's And he's a garbage person.
01:14:27
Speaker
Right. Even him being a garbage person probably helped with this list. I mean, the Taylor Swift VMA moment is one maybe that maybe the most iconic show cultural moment of this century. i I would argue. Yeah. In a way, like it literally knows where they were. Right. Well, and people still reference. I'm going to let you finish. But yeah, right it's still a thing.
01:14:52
Speaker
that That was the biggest night in culture. i don't i don't I want to have a hot take, but I don't want to get canceled. move Oh, my God. it's it withes Whisper the hot take. Because I have one for for our segment at the end that might get me canceled. I kind of feel like, and I'm just going to say it quietly because this has to stay between us. OK, good. Just us, who's listening? um yeah I feel like that moment is part of the reason and sort of cemented Taylor into The identity we see today. Oh, I I while I do think she would have continued to be successful I think that without a doubt that dramatically altered her sliding doors trajectory Yes, like she might have just continued to be like a mo like a successful country artist who maybe never went into pop Who knows right? I don't know
01:15:42
Speaker
um but or maybe she would have and it wouldn't have been successful that's that's i think you are not wrong right yeah i feel like that there's something and i feel like that may be the moment where the fandom sort of turned for me where i feel like yeah it did she became the perpetual victim after that despite her being like the biggest punch right in the world Which is what I think I've had the the hardest time with of her career. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I'm like, there's, there is nothing about this woman that says victim to me. Oh no, nothing. Like she, she is the music industry. and beyond From an, especially an economical standpoint. Right. Right. No, beyond. Yeah. But I mean, my introduction to Kanye West was his remix to me against the music.
01:16:28
Speaker
Work. That checks out. yeah right right Mine was, I was living in but i still living in Beijing at the time. I remember, I think it was when Jesus Walks came out. But I was like, Cain West? Cain West. Because because i you know I was just reading about these people, and I didn't know how i i never i didn't hear his name really ever. I i experienced pop culture in like the early 2000s in a very interesting way. So a lot of things I've had to learn about sort of retroactively.
01:16:56
Speaker
Yeah. Gotcha. When did you live in Beijing?
Unique Perspectives on Pop Culture
01:16:58
Speaker
I lived there from 99 to 08. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Oh, actually okay. No, I'll save it for after this list, maybe even off camera, but I have something to say about an omission.
01:17:10
Speaker
We're going to have to make this a two part episode, by the way. OK. But I am here for it because I'm loving this conversation. And there you have it, folks. That is the first part of our two part episode of the Billboard's greatest pop stars of the 21st century. Thank you so much for listening. Click on over to the next episode to continue listening to the rest of our conversation. Thanks so much for listening and we'll check you there. but Bye bye.