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Bonus - On Community: From The Prosecutors Legal Briefs Listeners Episode
246 Plays1 year ago
Dive into a world where true crime meets community, where the voices of Brett and Alice from the Prosecutors Podcast weave a narrative that's about much more than the cases they cover. Discover how a podcast became a beacon of connection during the pandemic, bringing together people from all walks of life. In this episode, we explore the essence of belonging, the power of community, and how one podcast can make a profound impact on its listeners and fellow podcasters alike. Join us as we delve into gratitude, humanity, and the unexpected friendships forged in the true crime community.
Check out The Prosecutors podcast and learn more by visiting our website and follow along with us on Instagram.
Join our Silver Linings Fireside Chat Facebook group and join us on Patreon.
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Transcript
Introduction and Community Tease
00:00:00
Speaker
But first, the real reason I'm on here is I want to thank you guys. You guys are amazing. I love you. I appreciate you both. If you haven't caught on. There might be some crumbs out there. But I was going to ask you about Delphi. I'm just kidding. I'm not talking about it. He's a funny name, guys.
Support and Humor in Podcasting
00:00:25
Speaker
So in the podcasting industry, especially in true crime, there is so much backbiting and backstabbing. And I really appreciate the fact, this is a Jason question, so the beginning of it is not really a question, but I just really appreciate the fact that you guys spend so much time as a fellow podcaster raising all boats up with you.
00:00:49
Speaker
I was on a two-hour call with Kevin and Anya last night. Not insignificant chunk of that call, this is what happens behind your back, was about our appreciation for how supportive you are of everyone in the community. That appreciation, it's being talked about and people are talking about it behind your back all the time. This is Jason Blair and this is a Silver Linings Handbook bonus episode.
Belonging and Community Themes
00:01:20
Speaker
In our end-of-the-year wrap-up episode, one of the common themes from our episodes with executive coach and attorney John Mitchell and former venture capitalist Jerry Colonna, to Brett Talley and Alice the Corps of the Prosecutors podcast, to Reverend John Cleghorn and cult survivor Greg Ligon.
00:01:40
Speaker
was the importance of belonging in community. In our July episodes with Brett and Alice, they both hit on the importance of belonging in community and how one of the most unexpected things about starting a podcast almost four years ago was the community that had developed around it.
Overcoming Challenges and Finding Belonging
00:01:59
Speaker
I found Brett and Alice podcasts during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic and found comfort in their rational approach to true crime cases, the insights they shared, and just their ability to make sense of things when not much was making sense in the world. I became a part of their community through watching their lives and joining the Lister Run Facebook group, The Gallery, in early 2023.
00:02:26
Speaker
My fellow prosecutor's listener and now friend, Alison Dixon, tells the story of seeing my name in the live chats and saying, is that that Jason Blair? The truth is I had been lurking on the lives without typing up until the point that I decided that my plagiarism and fabrication at the New York Times wasn't gonna be an obstacle, even though it still haunts me in some quarters. Since I broke off my relationship with the church as a teenager,
00:02:56
Speaker
My lost sense of belonging, community and belonging, have made belonging and community important to me. I've met some of my closest friends to the prosecutor's community, and I'm grateful for the gift that Brett and Alice brought into the world with their podcasts and the communities they've supported.
True Crime as a Medium for Dialogue
00:03:18
Speaker
On my episodes with them, Scales of Justice, Brett and Alice pointed out their gratitude for community.
00:03:26
Speaker
Alice brought it up from the get.
00:03:29
Speaker
Jason, I think you hit the nail on the head. The conduit by which we are getting to do this is true crime, but we just need to be able today as a society to talk to each other, to share ideas, to debate respectfully, and to refine each other's thinking with using our brains. We all have brains, and it's such a beautiful thing when you're able to have an honest conversation, whether you agree or disagree with someone else.
00:03:57
Speaker
It's something that we've been able to do through the podcast. We see our community doing it without us. And it really heartens me for the future. A bunch of people will just be naysayers and say, we don't talk to each other anymore. And that might be the case, but I see so many pockets where there is honest dialogue in everything.
Transcending True Crime
00:04:18
Speaker
I'm not just talking about true crime. I'm talking about life. It's within your own family.
00:04:23
Speaker
significant others with your friends, it's with your kids, it's with people you've never met on the internet. We are all human. We are all in this life together and we get this one life and it matters and every moment matters and we can choose to kind of take away from it or add to it. And I hope that
00:04:45
Speaker
the time that people choose to listen to our podcast is adding to it and that we're talking about something so much more than just true crime. It goes far beyond that. It goes back to the very humanity of each person and the dignity of each person and our ability to communicate with other humans in our life. And I feel blessed to be
00:05:06
Speaker
part of those dialogues often through the podcast, and I hope others are able to join us for the ride and then extrapolate from the podcast to the rest of their life as well.
Vulnerability and Truth in Community Building
00:05:17
Speaker
Brett echoed that comment. Alice said something in one of our episodes about how one of the things that unites us is we all suffer.
00:05:29
Speaker
you know, suffering is sort of a universal thing. And, you know, that's another example of that sort of vulnerability you talk about being willing to say that because it is so that is such an opposite of our social media culture. Our social media culture is project happiness and perfection at all times, you know, like curate your Facebook pages, use the right filters on Instagram, like whatever it is.
Community in Times of Need
00:05:55
Speaker
And you talk about the, I think,
00:05:59
Speaker
We need community in our country and probably just in our entire world more now than ever because so many of the traditional communities people relied on have broken down. We just don't have them. And people are so isolated and alone. And why is depression surging? Why are people, why is suicide surging? You know, people feel so isolated and alone. And if we do in this pocket, look, it's crazy, okay? It's just, it's insane.
00:06:26
Speaker
We never imagined, I mean, I thought maybe one day, you know, maybe we'll do, this will be really successful. And a lot of people will listen. Wouldn't that be amazing? Wouldn't that be great? Never imagined the community aspect of it.
00:06:39
Speaker
Well, today I thought I'd share a small part of a listener's question and answer episode on Brett Nallis' second podcast, The Prosecutor's Legal Briefs. During that episode, in this excerpt, Jason Urcy, one of our other guests in 2023, and also the editor of The Prosecutor's Podcast and Legal Briefs, jumped on along with me. I thought I'd share this to give you a sense of the community that Brett Nallis had built
00:07:09
Speaker
and to encourage you to come join it, because it's about so much, much more than true crime.
Insights from a Cold Case Investigation
00:07:18
Speaker
All right. Speaking of somebody trained to be a journalist. Jason. Jason Blair. How are you? Jason Blair joins. I'm great, I'm wonderful. I just got back from Idaho in Washington. Did I tell you guys what I was doing there? You know, I had, oh, look at that Tubbo Chico pulling it out. Hey there, Tubbo.
00:07:38
Speaker
Topo Chico getting all the free advertising. You tell me generally you're out there investigating some sort of- Yes, a serial killer case. Yeah, it's a cold case serial killer case. It was actually really cool. I've come to a conclusion about why people tell me things. One, I'm a thinking man. They like thinking men.
00:07:58
Speaker
So I'm having this meeting with some people who are interested in the case, including one of the victim's family members, and the cold case detective who's leading the investigation shows up.
00:08:11
Speaker
And one of the things I've learned is if you wanna find out from a detective what's going on, you just don't ask them a question. Just don't ask. And they ended up unburdening themselves on me. It was really fascinating as somebody who's not as close to it as they are, being able to sort of like step back and pull the emotions out of it. So they ended up giving me a tour of all the scenes and the different things that happened and we theorized on it, but it was great and it was beautiful.
00:08:39
Speaker
And I hope they solved the case. And I think I'm gonna become everyone's mental health counselor by the time it's done. And that's gonna be solved. Wow. So are you writing an article on it or? No, I just want it solved. I just want it solved. Wow. It sounds like we need to do this on the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll tell you. Is it too early?
00:08:55
Speaker
I kind of know who the guy is. Oh, wow. OK. Yeah. Kind of know who the guy is, you know, what they basically have in the case right now is mere presence at the disappearance of a 12 year old girl. Bob tells me that's not enough. So yeah, that's what I hear. You also have mere presence at the disappearance of three 20 year olds and the theater. Right.
00:09:27
Speaker
It's not everyone keeps disappearing around you. Yes. They're not all being taken at different times. You're the asshole. I don't know. I mean, kind of the logic, right? Like, you know, people keep disappearing and you don't. What's the common denominator? I'll tell you all about the case at some point, but it just became a passion for me. And they were asking me, like, why did you become interested in this case in Idaho?
00:09:43
Speaker
At some point it stops being me.
00:09:55
Speaker
And I had written, going back to the journalism point, not written, I'd read a profile of one of the victims. And I was like, wow, she is spunky, energetic. She tells people what she thinks. She's got a passion for life, wants to be a teacher. And I just thought to myself, wow, this woman is a lot like my mom.
00:10:15
Speaker
And I can't imagine a world where that would be deprived of having someone like my mom. So that's how years ago I was interested in the case. And it's it's really yeah, it's an interesting one. And I hope I can contribute some positive to it. But first, the real reason I'm on here is I want to thank you guys. You guys are amazing. I love you. I appreciate you both. If you haven't caught on, there might be some crumbs out there.
00:10:46
Speaker
But I was going to ask you about Delphi. I'm just kidding. I'm not talking about it. He's a funny name, guys. So, you know, in the podcasting industry, especially in true crime, there is so much backbiting.
00:11:03
Speaker
and backstabbing. And I really appreciate the fact, this is an adjacent question, so the beginning of it is not really a question, but I just really appreciate the fact that you guys spend so much time as a fellow podcaster raising all boats up with you.
00:11:20
Speaker
I was on a two hour call with Kevin and Anya last night. Not insignificant chunk of that call, this is what happens behind your back, was about our appreciation for how supportive you are of everyone in the community. So that appreciation, it's being talked about and people are talking about it behind your back all the time.
00:11:44
Speaker
uh you know we can only give so many five-star reviews or send you so many notes of appreciation but just want to let you know it's happening but more broadly like you both say you can't you can't be so nice to us and not let us thank you well that's so nice of you to say and kevin and anya are incredible like we didn't we
00:12:03
Speaker
You know, they truly are incredible. They also share you know Delphi is their case but they send us all the filings as soon as they come out not playing games not being like well you have to go find the the Filings you do the same Jason and the whole point is this is a small sample of what the entire world I mean the world feels like it's
00:12:25
Speaker
on fire around us right now at this very moment. And this isn't just the podcast world, right? This is what should be happening in all of our communities. And we learn from you guys and it keeps going around and the love just keeps getting bigger and
00:12:40
Speaker
And we're just as much part of it and we are beneficiaries of it. And thank you for being an example of that, Jason, on social media to people who really don't give it back. And all of you in the chat, all of you in the gallery, all of you who listen and write us similar stories, it's not us. It has nothing to do with us.
00:12:59
Speaker
benefit being part of a community like that. So thanks, Jason, for saying that. Yeah. And I want to say, you know, Jason, several on his handbook, if you guys aren't listening to it, Jason and Anya and Kevin from the murder sheet, the thing that always to piggyback on Alice.
00:13:18
Speaker
They send us stuff without us asking. And it's like, it would be so easy to hoard that, to basically be like, I am the source of information. And if you want it, you have to go through me. And this is particularly true of Ani and Kevin, who have access to Indiana case files that are difficult to get. It is hard to get stuff out of Indiana. We've tried. We can't do it.
00:13:41
Speaker
But they have it and they're like, you know, I didn't even know there were recent filings and they send an email like, here's all the recent filings in the case. And it's like, wow, this is very helpful and afforded to Alice and.
00:13:53
Speaker
They're awesome, they're incredible people. Glad to know that Jason is hooking up with them as well. And I'll just say this, there may be backstabbing and all this other stuff in the True Crime community, but I will say with very, very few exceptions, we have found it to be just very uplifting, people working together, wanting to help each other. We did our episode about the award and we talked about this. I mean, there were so many, and we didn't even mention them all. I'm sure we missed people.
00:14:22
Speaker
So many people who have helped us as we continue this and that's one of my favorite things about this community is we just haven't seen. The drama that a lot of people point to me like i said there are obviously some some narrow examples and i'm not gonna talk about that but.
00:14:42
Speaker
Generally speaking, it has been so incredibly uplifting. And it's one of the reasons I still enjoy doing this is because I feel like the people involved really, they're, they worry about victims. They want victims to get justice. They want the courts to get it right. You know, when they believe that there's a, there's a wrongful conviction, it's because they want justice to be done. And I love it.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah, it is. It's been an amazing experience because as somebody who isn't really, you know, I'm a true crime listener more than, you know, a true crime podcaster, it was really wild to me to find such a loving community. I just, you know, it was like tripping across the corner and being like, wait a second, hold on. Like, there's lots of love over here.
00:15:27
Speaker
And it kind of fits into my question because more broadly, you guys have talked about how originally you got into this. It would be a great way to spend time together, talk about the things that you normally talk, bring that unique perspective of being a prosecutor. But when you were on with me on your episode with me, you talked about how surprising it was to have built a community.
00:15:52
Speaker
and how important the community to us. So I was just wondering sort of like now that you've kind of made it to this point, wherever you are right now, who call that podcast famous? You know, with a lot of listeners, a lot of folks that you're engaged with sort of imagining years in the future and looking back on your experience in the podcast, like what would you want us as your listeners, other podcasters, your children, anyone from to sort of taken from this experience?
00:16:23
Speaker
Easy question, right? Oh man, Alice, do you have any brilliant insights on that? Jason, I just got lost in your question because you said it so beautifully. I'm not even kidding. I was just going. Is the question over? I mean. Yeah, wow.
00:16:50
Speaker
Like I said, we've been so surprised by the whole community aspect itself. I just never expected it. That was never something I expected. It wasn't something we thought to set up. I just thought people would listen and they'd like it or not like it and whatever. But just the fact that people
00:17:13
Speaker
I mean, it seems like there are people who are now friends with each other. And I think some of the people in the chat will support this. Friends with each other because of the podcast, that the podcast brought them together. And now they are real actual friends with real connections. And that just blows my mind. And when this is all over, I mean, I just hope that
00:17:39
Speaker
Number one, we were always ourselves. We never faked it, right? I mean, this was us. It was always just us. That we were real, that we were honest, and that we tried to sort of bring people together in some way where we could build this kind of community. I mean, that's the most important thing to me.
00:18:02
Speaker
And I'll say, so I think I've told this story before, but it's something that I try to live by. And Jason, this seems to be right, you know, within your wheelhouse. I think I said it on your episode actually, which is that when I worked on really traumatic cases, representing children who are in abuse and neglect proceedings. I mean, really some of the darkest things, and we've talked about this, the cases about children being
00:18:25
Speaker
murdered or abused are my least favorite because it's not the kind of world I want to live in. And when I worked in that capacity, kind of walking into the hurt every single day and having to be there for these kids and seeing what they're, you know, the people closest to them had to do to them. It's very intense vicarious trauma and you can't do it for very long without burning out unless you have some way to
00:18:50
Speaker
view it. And the way that I was taught to view it was every single day to name out loud, say out loud, not just write it down, not just think about it in your head, but to verbalize a thing of beauty from the day. So no matter how terrible the day has been to verbalize the thing of beauty for me today is X.
00:19:08
Speaker
And let me jump in. That's so funny. So what I did during this whole trip is every place where something bad happened, I went and found something beautiful and took pictures. So some people who are in the chat have been commenting on my photos. Well, if you turn around from any of those places where those pictures came from, something very sad happened. But I wanted to walk away with something beautiful at every place.
00:19:34
Speaker
Oh, Jason, I mean, talk about redemption through beauty, right? I mean, beauty, the thing, the reason that beauty is beauty, and this is much more philosophical, we can spend all night talking about it, but, you know, Aristotle, I think said this, you know, beauty is beautiful because it's getting closer to truth. So true things are beautiful. And so it's not just for the sake of beauty, it's not just for, you know, the things that fade away, but true beauty is forever. And true beauty exists because there is truth in the world.
00:20:03
Speaker
And I truly believe that there is truth and not just what you determined to be truth, but truth exists outside of what I think is true. And that kind of beauty and truth is found in the most unexpected places. And this is going somewhere. This podcast and this community specifically, not the podcast, not the stories we cover, not the legal concepts that we try to explain.
00:20:28
Speaker
this community has become one of the most unexpected things of beauty that you know it's the greatest surprise of my life I would say and it's something that I come back to over and over and when you are able to touch upon something that is a true thing of beauty I think you are literally quite literally closer to truth and quite literally closer to God and those things are not um they're all around us but we don't always see them
00:20:52
Speaker
And this community is something that I've been able to see so clearly develop and just be refined. And this is like this beautiful, precious gem that has been refined over time as we've all gotten to know each other. And it's just, it's truly stunning to me that has nothing to do with anything Brett or I have done.
00:21:13
Speaker
I don't think you give yourself enough credit. And I understand it takes all of us and it takes the entire group, but it also takes your example. There's a reason why these types of people have gravitated toward your community. And you play an important role in that, and I don't mean to make it bigger or smaller than it really is, but if we didn't have you as models,
00:21:35
Speaker
for behavior and for loving and caring about people and being honest and being truthful, I think it would have been hard to find or pull together this group of people. So thanks guys. That's all I got for now. Talk to you very soon. You're awesome. Thank you so much. And, and by the way, those of you, I will be joining Jason scene for his, uh,
00:22:01
Speaker
I think it's on his Halloween episode. Two episodes. Two Halloween episodes. 30th and the 31st. There you go. Man, you guys, you podcasters are just making Brett's dreams come true because I will only give him one Halloween episode a week in October. But y'all are going to fill him up with like 31 episodes. I can feel it.
00:22:19
Speaker
You're going to be almost awesome to write a dingo. I am. I am. I'm doing so many Halloween episodes. It's amazing. I love it. It's hilarious. So I recorded a Halloween episode with Allison where she's a guest on my podcast. Then two days later, you recorded an episode with her where you're a guest on her podcast. Then I recorded. Wait, who was the next one? I recorded with you. And now next week I'm recording as a guest on Allison's podcast talking about where was Shapeship. There you go.
00:22:49
Speaker
There you go. There's just one big incestuous family. That's what we do. Richie! Richie! It's Richie Buck. Can you guys hear me? We can hear you. Hey, Richie Buck. How you doing? As the radio guy. I'm wonderful. How are we all? We're doing good. Doing good. We should all. Yeah, I know. Probably have two Jasons at the same time. I just want to say, when I said when this is all over, my assumption is at some point you guys will all tire of us and move on to something more. Agreed.
00:23:17
Speaker
At that point, we will lay down our arms and move forward with our lives as non-podcast. But if you guys just want to listen until the end of time, so be it. We'll do it. But I'm just saying. I'm here for it. Like I said, you all are my friends. Yeah. Absolutely. My gosh. You guys are amazing. If anybody hasn't listened to Jason's
00:23:41
Speaker
latest episode, I think he and I said some, some words that were very dear to our hearts about the two of you and, and Bob and, and your support, which goes back to the community, community talk, maybe child screaming in the background. Hopefully that will get remedied in a minute.
00:23:59
Speaker
I thought it was my kid, to be honest. No, it's not yours, it's mine. But no, you guys are great. And I have a couple of little questions if you want me to ask them. No, fire away. You get to ask all the questions. Richie Buck. Richie. Richie Buck. And I have a question. This is a wonderful Jason. Please. My question before you continue, my favorite character in your show,
00:24:24
Speaker
Santa may be a criminal, which if you're not listening to that, you should certainly listen to is Dr. Myra Abenati. Yes. Who plays her? Because she is a natural. I mean, she should be an actress. If she's not already an actress, she should be an actress. So when she says Richie, I'm just like,
00:24:43
Speaker
Wow, this person's awesome. OK, so this is a long short story. So when I when it when I was in my so I studied abroad in London when I was in college and I fell in love with every English woman that I ever came across. And I was like, I'm going to marry accents are so sexy. I know. I'm like, nobody's going to marry an English woman.
00:25:11
Speaker
And, um, anyhow, obviously I haven't happened. And then, um, I, so the person that plays that role is Cherry from Crimepedia. And she is an English lady and, um, at CrimeCon last year, this season had not started. And she like cornered me and she's like, when is Richie going to get a girlfriend? And I was like,
00:25:36
Speaker
Well, it's very ambiguous. We don't talk about his relationship status, which was intentional because I didn't want to give anything away. I want to have an opportunity to kind of go that route.
00:25:51
Speaker
She's like, well, I think Myra should be his girlfriend. And I was like, okay, which is the way the podcast works for me. I take a lot of things from other people and say, how can I make that work in this story? Because that's what life is like. Life is finding out how to, um,
00:26:11
Speaker
you know, navigate your way through these different scenarios. And so that's what happened and and Cherry is amazing.
00:26:22
Speaker
And we have the last three episodes of the season. She's in two of them. But the last episode of the season is very, very, very good. And she's got a big role in the next season, and two also do, in advance for that. And I'll be reaching out to you for your.
00:26:46
Speaker
help on writing it as well. But we can't wait. She's awesome. And so I appreciate that so much. She's the judge. That's the question. I have some bones to pick. I actually I actually have. I actually think I have a different character for you.
00:27:05
Speaker
All right. I haven't talked about tonight. I was busy. I do have an idea. So this is great. But yeah, you guys. As long as I get to talk about conspiracy theories, I'm good with it. I'll figure that out. I think I'll totally do that.
00:27:28
Speaker
Um, okay. So, uh, do you have a question or do you want me to go? No, shoot, shoot. It's all you. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. I just love Myra. No, I love it. I love it. No, I appreciate you. Um, so Brett, I got a full short question for you. And then Alice, I have a, probably a longer question for you.
00:27:50
Speaker
And then I have two other one question that's from somebody else. And then, and then the question for Sam, maybe a criminal, basically, basically. So, um, Brett favorite cryptid or urban legend and or urban legend. Huh? Favorite cryptid and or urban legend.
00:28:19
Speaker
And Alice, you can answer this too. I don't know that you would have, I don't know that you- I don't know if favorite's the right word, the ones that make me the most scared. I mean, look, I love the Loch Ness Monster. I mean, I'm a huge fan of Loch Ness Monster. I feel that the Loch Ness Monster is like the hope that's in all of our souls, that like there exists to this day a dinosaur from prehistoric ages. So it's hard for me not to say the Loch Ness Monster is my favorite.
00:28:44
Speaker
You know, as far as urban legends go, I love the classic urban legends, the hook hand on the car. Fantastic. Right. Probably my favorite. You know, I mean, we did the razor blades and candy for our episodes, which was pretty cool, but I'm going to go with hook hand. I'm going to go with hook hand is my favorite urban legend and longness monster is my favorite cryptid. Very good. Alice, you want to weigh in at all?
00:29:10
Speaker
No, they all scare me. We all know this about me. We don't need to tell them that. I know, I know. I just want to give you the option. Okay, so Brett. Favorite Alabama football player of all time? Oh man, that's so hard. Oh man. Favorite Alabama football player of all time?
00:29:36
Speaker
So when I was a kid, Derek Thomas was dominating, you know? I mean, he kinda, the players that are big when you're a kid tend to be the ones, I'll say this, oh God. So let me think about this for a second. Oh, I can't remember his name.
00:30:03
Speaker
So when I was in 1992, I was 11 years old, and we went to the Sugar Bowl in New Orleans, when Alabama played Miami. And Miami was the great evil of college football, basically. Those of you who don't remember, Miami in the 80s was this dark force of evil that was rampaging through college football and no one could stop. And so in 1992,
00:30:33
Speaker
Exactly so not tonight to alabama played miami and everybody just thought miami was going to destroy. Alabama is maybe really a spin it i can't remember. Well anyway so.
00:30:47
Speaker
They did not. Alabama defeated Miami in the Sure Bowl for the National Championship in 1992. It was an amazing game. You should watch it if you get the opportunity. It's on YouTube. And after the game, we were there. Still, to this day, the best football game I've ever been at. After the game, we were there, and somehow we had a pizza. I can't remember why we had a pizza.
00:31:09
Speaker
but we just did. And I can't remember who it was, but one of the Alabama football players came up and was like, can I have a slice of pizza? And I can't remember which one it was, but obviously we gave him a slice of pizza, which I'm pretty sure was a violation of NCAA rules at the time. But that to me, that was such an incredible moment. So that entire team is going to be at the top of my list. But I think I'm going to say Derek Thomas is my favorite Alabama football player of all time. Nice. That's great. That's awesome.
00:31:38
Speaker
Um, okay. So Alice, you have spoke very eloquently and touchingly about your experience as a daughter of immigrants and not being able to, you know, speak English when you enter basin. Can I jump in just real quick? That you guys did on the Ellen Greenberg.
00:32:00
Speaker
Um, uh, case was so touching. There's so many other ways you guys could have handled that question, but it was with such love and compassion. It's funny. It's a great episode, but I've listened to it over and over again, just to listen to that advice you gave him at the end. So very, very good. Um, yeah, no. So, um, so I just wondered if there was a moment that you, so,
00:32:28
Speaker
I think you felt like an outsider, like in that example. I wonder if you could remember the moment that you felt like you were finally accepted and like if it was a thing or if it was like, you know, if it was dance, if there was some sort of vehicle that brought you to feel a part of the community.
00:32:52
Speaker
What an insightful question. It really is. And I say this and I try to say it loudly now for everyone who needs to hear it. If you ever feel like an insider, you're probably like the one person in the world who feels it. I don't think anyone ever feels fully accepted. And that's partly why this community is so amazing, right? Like, you know, I would really...
00:33:13
Speaker
I would be really worried when people would say, but your life looks so perfect. You do all these things. You made it to all these great schools. And I just want to say, I've never felt more out of place than I went to college. I remember I showed up to class and girls were wearing Lily Pulitzer.
00:33:30
Speaker
I didn't even know how to pronounce Lilly Pulitzer. I didn't know what that was, that it was a brand, that it was something I was supposed to understand and see a pattern and understand that that was a brand that I was supposed to know. I didn't understand that. I didn't understand you were supposed to wear dresses to, you know, football games in the South. And then so you have four years of college and I thought, oh, of course, now I understand life. But then I show up at Yale.
00:33:54
Speaker
never having been around people with so many opportunities and means and people talking about everything esoterically and academically rather than in real life. And I felt like a fish out of water. And then I began to practice law and I would show up in the courtroom and be quite literally the only woman who couldn't reach the microphone because I was a foot shorter than everyone else who practiced in the courtroom.
00:34:17
Speaker
and no one would look at me seriously. The list goes on and the point is not to say, poor me. The point is we're all outsiders in a way, right? And when you recognize that about every person you interact with, you can't help but come to it with compassion. And so I love my origin story. I love that things didn't come easily. I love that
00:34:40
Speaker
to this day, like there are English words I cannot think of because I'm like, what is that word? Like a very simple word because sometimes my brain just glitches back to like, you know, my mother tongue. I love all of that because it is a constant reminder of how we need to view the world, how everyone is walking, you know, and trying to make the best in their way in this world and no one has it figured out.
00:35:07
Speaker
And so thanks for that question, but I hope everyone knows that and that they don't look at our podcast or us or anything like that and think it has come easy or that anyone is now an insider in any shape or form. And I just want to say something because it's true and I like to speak the truth.
00:35:28
Speaker
I hope all of you who are listening to this realize how fortunate you are to listen to Alice talk about these cases. Because Alice is actually one of the foremost minds, legal minds in the country today. And that is 100% true.
00:35:49
Speaker
Y'all don't understand how fortunate you are to have someone like Alice talk about true crime. It's one thing to have lawyers talk about it. It's one thing to have prosecutors talk about it. It's an entirely different thing to have someone like Alice talk about it. And I am so blessed to have Alice as a co-host. I mean, she is
00:36:10
Speaker
just, I mean, I cannot express to you how brilliant Alice is. So I hope everyone appreciates that and understands that. We're so lucky to have her. We're so lucky to have her mind applied to these cases. It is a true blessing that we are exposed to.
00:36:31
Speaker
Stop it. That's the word on the street. So Brett's right. I mean, you guys are both brilliant. I mean, you really are amazing. People have done amazing things. And I think it's so powerful that you two both have had moments where you felt scorned or outsiders or because I think for so many of the people who are listeners,
00:36:59
Speaker
They listen to people like you, or they listen to some of the rest of us. And they're seeing us in a moment where it appears we have things together. But we've all been through those moments. We go through those moments, I'm sure, with parenting and with trying to balance things. And even though you're on a platform, we have platforms, it doesn't mean that we're not dealing with the same hurt and security struggles that every other person
00:37:26
Speaker
But can we talk about how great Jason is? Because he is the queen in the background that holds everything together. You're like a big ball of sticky love that pulls everyone together. And I just want to say I'm so glad to have you. I'm adding Jill to the conversation. Oh, God. Please add Jill. I'll be fast by last. This is Avoidance of Praise by Richie. Go on.
00:37:56
Speaker
Well, I appreciate what you said, Jason. But no, I'm just here to nugget fine, I guess. I'll jump in for Jason. So Jason not only produces his own podcasts and helps a bunch of other amazing podcasts be produced. Everything you guys hear, sound editing wise,
00:38:19
Speaker
I mean, he turns them around right away and makes us sound way better than we actually are. And he does it with like the most just kind heart because a lot of the editing, especially, you know, the way he puts things together is really just art. And yet we say the words, but man, you guys hear how much we stumble over our words and you would never know it after listening to Jason's editing. Well, you guys are the best. I love you both. So I have to ask something to Carly real fast.
00:38:50
Speaker
She says, she says, Brett, when are you going to write a true crime memoir like James Renner or Nick Edwards has done? You know, we've talked about doing that for a while. We just don't have time, but we would love to do that. We have like outlines. Yeah, that would be amazing. I can help you do that. Well, we'll have to work. Careful, Jason. Yeah, we know everything.
00:39:19
Speaker
So we have Jill here. I don't know if Jill is actually, is Jill still with us? Can you hear us, Jill? Jill? Jill? Hi, Jill. I know you're there, Jill. Can't hide. I'm trying. Hi. There you are. Can you hear me? Yes, yes, we can hear you. We can hear you, but we can hear you.
00:39:41
Speaker
Okay, so I just gotta say that everything that y'all just said was absolutely true about all of y'all. I believe everything that y'all just said about everybody on the chat. Jill, let me just say, it's such an honor to meet you at CrimeCon. I love you to death. You're awesome. Jill, hugging you at CrimeCon was the best.
00:40:04
Speaker
Oh, you give the best hugs, Alice, you really do. I'm sorry. And I just have to say, Jill, I love your accent so much. I could just hear you talk all the time. Agreed. Well, I love listening to y'all talk, obviously. And now, like, I have imprinted in my brain anything that I see Christmas. I can't help thinking about Jason.
00:40:32
Speaker
It's like crazy how much the little things you associate with, you know, everybody that you've met.
00:40:40
Speaker
I really enjoyed meeting everybody that I met. Like there was not a single person that I met at CrimeCon that I was like, I'm staying away from them. You know, no, I like thoroughly enjoyed all of them. I came back and I was talking to my family and like, yeah, so and so and this and that and this. And they like, uh, who's that? There we are. Oh yeah. That's beautiful.
00:41:11
Speaker
Well, it was such an honor to meet you and thank you so much for everything and I hope we'll see you in Nashville. Yes, that was one thing that I wanted to bring up. So I hear that you're apparently going to karaoke with us in. I blame Lily for that rumor. OK, so I really, really want you to promise that you're going to karaoke at least one song with me.
00:41:38
Speaker
I will karaoke with you and anybody else who wants to karaoke. I am down for karaoking all night long. I'm so excited. I really, really hope that my husband gets to come this time.
00:41:59
Speaker
The other Jason got to meet him in Austin, but y'all didn't get to meet him because he was at work. But anyways, him and Alice would go on and on and on about food because he cooks. Well, I say just Alice. Alice likes to cook, I could tell.
00:42:23
Speaker
I could also tell that you, Brett, are a big foodie. I love food. I don't like to cook it so much as to eat it, but that's okay. Well, I wrote in the chat when you said that, when you were talking about different foods, I was like, oh, Brett could almost be Cajun. I love it. But anyway, I love how positive everybody is and
00:42:52
Speaker
that I've met and how warm and inviting everybody was. I just really enjoyed, especially meant Carly. I met her twice and Carly's just so sweet. I love Carly and I really didn't get to talk to her like I really wanted to at either event. So I'm looking forward to it in Nashville.
00:43:16
Speaker
I love Carly too. This is what you're a fantastic advertisement. Everyone go to CrimeCon next year. We'll be there. I think we'll get a code at some point to give you guys a discount. I don't know that we have it yet. We don't have it yet, but it will be prosecutors. Keep trying it when you're signing up. We technically just got invited to CrimeCon UK. We have to decide whether we're going to do that. Wow. That's amazing. That's quite an honor.
00:43:47
Speaker
Yeah, I would like to go, but we'll have to see. Yeah, there you go. My Abernathynd will be there. We've got to get Kevin and Ananya to go. I was talking to them about your experience at CrimeCon, and they were like, wow, it wasn't that bad. Sounds like you have a great group. I'm like, it's a warm, loving group of people. And I reminded them, all that smack people talk on Twitter, they don't do it in person. They just won't. So. Yeah, I mean, we were worried about that.
00:44:16
Speaker
We were worried that there might be some negative reaction and we didn't see that at all. All right, Jill, it's been awesome to have you. We're about to sign off for tonight, but thank you so much for being our last guest. Well, thank you all for having me. I appreciate it and I just have one more thing. Brett, what do we have to do to get you to start some kind of history podcast?
00:44:45
Speaker
Oh man, yeah. That's a great question. If I could find somebody who wanted me to host a history podcast and was willing to help me out with the research, I would absolutely do it. I will help you out with whatever you need. Just point me whatever direction. Say, Jill, I need this from this and this and this. I'll do whatever. Just tell me what to do.
00:45:10
Speaker
Well, I'll say this, keep telling your friends, make our podcast even bigger, and eventually I'll be able to leverage that into a history podcast. Okay, it's a deal. I'm going to do everything that I can. Awesome. Well, thank you Jill so much. All right, y'all have a great night. Have a great night. You too. You can research a brat named Madison. I'm sure we can turn it into a full-time job for her. Look, Madison's awesome. She's great. You've talked to her. She's really good. She does a fantastic job.
00:45:39
Speaker
Yes. We need to do this more often because I realize we're going on two hours now, but this has been so uplifting. I feel so uplifted. Also, I feel bad. I still feel so bad that people had questions they've been waiting to ask for months.
00:45:52
Speaker
But I'm glad that we got no one, just so you guys know, we got through everyone in the queue. So we did. And I want to say to both Jason's like you guys. Y'all are so great. I mean, it is so difficult. If you have never done something like this.
00:46:11
Speaker
the mental strain that it places on you where just the imposter syndrome, right? Like the notion that are we really good at this? Are we really doing a good job? I mean, are we, should we be doing this at all? Maybe we should just stop, right? Like that whole thing is such a constant and both of you
00:46:34
Speaker
throughout this have been such positive influences and just kept us going. And I just appreciate both of you so much. I'm speaking to you both because you're both on here, though I don't want to limit it to just you two because so many of you, particularly the people who are on here right now,
00:46:55
Speaker
I know you don't realize it. You do not know how much just your comments and your reviews and your emails and just the little things you do mean to us and really support us in doing this. And I would add that for any creator that you appreciate, like, you know,
00:47:21
Speaker
My show is smaller, but I get notes from people and it totally energizes me to do things and to go on other shows like Jason's show.
00:47:35
Speaker
to share whatever I have to offer as well. And so like, I mean, I think like being on the nice list kindness is really, really important. Cause as Alice said earlier, like we're in a time where like everything is chaos, but what can bring us all together as community. And, um, and I appreciate Brett and Alice, you guys have a platform that has
00:48:01
Speaker
spearheaded those friendships like you're talking about and created a community that I feel very safe in and I think a lot of people feel very safe in and I think right now it's really, really important to know. Jason, that's a great word for it because there are not a lot of places in I think a lot of our lives that feel safe and this really feels
00:48:21
Speaker
feels like one. And yeah, definitely to all the listeners. I know you guys think Brett and Alex are so busy or you think other creators are so busy. I'll get messages as often say, I know you're so busy and you won't have time to read this. I read every word of those messages and they touch my heart. And to Brett's point, like, I know podcasting may seem a little simpler than it is, but it would be easy to give up. And those notes were, I sort of feel like I always, I think I told you this, Jason.
00:48:51
Speaker
If I just touch one person a week, then it's worth it for me. So that one note does matter. And I don't know. I appreciate you guys. I appreciate you for the podcast. You as human beings. Glad I met you. I'll be friends with all of you if you didn't run a podcast. I'm looking forward to our friendship of the future. And, you know, I think you've changed my life in a really positive way. So you don't often get to say that to people. So I really appreciate it.
00:49:20
Speaker
And if I could just echo one thing, too, that I think I said in Jason's note this week, like we said a thanks at the end of Jason's episode to Brett and Alison, Bob, Mata. And I said at the top of that, like the sentiments that we shared were usually at the ends of things when people are going away. And I think and I hope that we'll start doing those things at the beginning of things, because it's more important to share those words when people are here.
00:49:51
Speaker
And I hope you both understand the great care that I take with the responsibility I have being on your team and the great care that I take representing kindness in the community. And I think we should all just
00:50:13
Speaker
be very, very wary of the way that we operate right now because it is tenuous and just trying to operate with kindness. I think there is nothing better that we could say than the way you two Jasons have put it. But to kind of wrap up your beautiful words on that is, I think what we've learned
00:50:37
Speaker
through podcasting, through having people listen to us and meeting all of you and getting to make these friendships is that
00:50:45
Speaker
We don't look at all of you who listen, all of you who are part of our team, who are part of our lives now. You're not just the masses, right? Every individual matters. And that's why Jason Blair, you said, if I touch just one person this week, it matters. All of your emails matter. You're pouring your lives and your hearts into these notes to us and they're not falling to the wayside because every person matters and your thoughts matter. So if you're out there thinking,
00:51:13
Speaker
Having any doubts about that, you matter individually. We see you and thank you for seeing us and allowing us to be us because that's such a gift that Brett and I don't have to hide who we are. Everything you hear out of our mouths, maybe Jason can edit it so it sounds like we stutter less, but this is who we are. It's not an act. It's just such a gift to be able to do this with all of you.
00:51:40
Speaker
So we're not going to sign off yet, but we'll sign off for purposes of the podcast so that Jason doesn't have to create an AI sign off for us because we forget things all the time. So thank you all. Thank you all for being with us tonight. I'm sorry it took so long for us to finally do another one of these lives, but we're back, baby. And maybe the next time we'll do it on a weekend so people don't have to wake up to go to work tomorrow morning. But until next time.
00:52:07
Speaker
I'm Brett. I'm Brett. I've been waiting for that my entire life.
00:52:38
Speaker
It was so, it was so deep and meaningful. No, I didn't do that on purpose. I haven't walked in like three days. Well, you're going to have to generate a chat with the AI sign off. I wish I could say that was on purpose.
00:53:13
Speaker
That's the first time you've gotten your own name wrong. I've got to say that you've gotten my name wrong for, but that's the first time you got your own name wrong. You're right. You're right about that because who would get their own name wrong? I mean, I did once, but that's beside the point. Oh my God. Oh my God. We got to do this again. Get it together. Okay. Yeah, I can't do it. We got this. I'm Alice.
00:53:43
Speaker
And I'm Scott. I'm just going to leave it at that. We're probably never coming back. This is the end. Okay. Okay. Okay. I can do this. I can do this. So Jason does have to create something. That's okay. I can figure it out. Until next time, I'm Alice. And I'm Brett. And this is The Prosecutor's Legal Briefs.
00:54:44
Speaker
Well, guys, thank you again. You guys are the best. You're awesome, too. What a cool group of people. It means a lot. You guys are awesome. I'm just looking at the list to name and thinking, like, that's my friend, that's my friend, that's my friend, that's my friend. That's wild. Not many lists I can look at. 9 o'clock.
00:55:08
Speaker
Central time for those of you who wonder, because of course, somebody's always like, is that an Eastern time? No. That was also one of my, that was almost one of my questions. It was about, it was about time zones.
00:55:42
Speaker
If you would like to join us for more discussions with us and our listeners, we can be found on most social media platforms, including a Lister Run Facebook group called the Silver Linings Fireside Chat. For deeper conversations with our guests and live conversations with other listeners, you can also join us on our Patreon at www.patron.com forward slash
00:56:11
Speaker
The Silver Linings Handbook. This is the Silver Linings Handbook podcast. I'm Jason Blair. We'll see you all again next week.