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97. The Long Island Serial Killer and His Invisible Victims with Raul Montero, Part 1
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The 2023 arrest of Rex Heuermann for the Long Island Serial Killer murders brought many answers. But would the murders have been solved faster if the victims were not marginalized? Raul Montero, a victims' advocate who has expanded his efforts beyond this case to attempt to help solve missing and unidentified persons cases across the United States, joins to discuss the case and marginalized victims.
Episode art by Hannah Hill., the talented artist who produces art for every episode of The Prosecutors podcast. To check out and support Hannah's art, check out her Instagram at @serious_moonlite or her website at https://linktr.ee/HannahHillArt.
Raul’s map of missing persons cases across the United States can be found here:
Raul’s collection of information on the LISK case can be found here:
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Transcript
Vulnerability of Marginalized Individuals
00:00:00
Speaker
I think historically, if you look at people struggling with drug addiction, people doing survival work, people on the perceived fringes of society, people that don't have anybody looking out for them as a perception looking out at them,
00:00:21
Speaker
they're more vulnerable, and they are. ah you know To say that they're not is to be disingenuous. They are more vulnerable. They are in more riskier environments or occupations, whether it's ah willingness to participate or a necessity to participate in some of these things. Plus, it opens up to a spectrum of personalities that have
00:00:54
Speaker
overwhelming desires, whether they're sexually driven or to induce physical pain driven or emotionally manipulating driven. And in in rare cases like serial killers, it's all of them in one. So marginalized people are the easiest of targets because They go missing. They're probably not in the same location that they live. Their family is is scattered about or far away from where they are or were last seen.
00:01:34
Speaker
And the perception is is that they're not thought of or cared for. That was the that was the narrative surrounding Jessica Taylor, that her family didn't care and all of this nonsense when it was so far from reality that it's insulting.
Raoul Montero and the Long Island Serial Killer Case
00:01:53
Speaker
That's Raoul Montero, a researcher, advocate, and journalist who's known online as CatchLisk.
00:02:01
Speaker
This is the Silver Linings Handbook Podcast. I'm Jason Blair.
00:02:19
Speaker
Ralph Monteiro grew up in the New York metropolitan area, spent many years privately researching the Long Island serial killer case after four victims were found on Gilgo Beach in 2010. Now, at least 11 or more, depending on how you count it, victims have been identified in the killings and Rex Hurman, a Long Island architect, has been arrested as a suspect in the case.
00:02:46
Speaker
Raul eventually searched for ethical, transparent, and accurate advocates and researchers online who were looking into the case, and he's built a community that's dedicated to identifying missing or murdered marginalized victims, some of whom are connected to the Long Island serial killer case,
00:03:05
Speaker
and some who may not be. Raoul has also developed deep relationships with some of the loved ones of the victims. Over time, he became frustrated with many of the inaccuracies that have become common beliefs about the case, and he's dedicated himself to setting the record straight.
00:03:25
Speaker
Rao told our researcher, Jessica Cash, that he's always tried to keep, quote, the victims and families on a pedestal and protected and defend them when they were unable to comment. Rao maintains a LISK missing, murdered, and unidentified cold case map in a timeline of the Long Island serial killer case, Rex Sherman's life, and the victim's lives.
00:03:52
Speaker
He's also created resources that he said were designed to make collection of information easier. He also supports law enforcement by passing on relevant information. Today, we're going to discuss the List case, how murders and other criminals prey on the most vulnerable, and how we can do more for the marginalized, who often, despite being deeply loved,
00:04:16
Speaker
are at the highest likelihood of being taken from us and their loved ones.
00:04:36
Speaker
So Raul, I just wanted to thank you for joining. I am so excited to have this conversation. You know, long before we actually ever had a conversation, I yeah i have been following your work. I was interested in the case.
00:04:50
Speaker
You know, it was fascinating to me for many of the reasons that I think you were drawn to it, you know, these very marginalized victims or these victims on what some people call the edge of society, but really in reality, they're very much a part of society and how so many of them could end up on that beach.
00:05:09
Speaker
So, you know, i I guess I was just following you in the background and it was a pleasure to get the introduction and meet you through a number of other people who are in this true crime space. And I just wanted to, you know, as I dug in and found out more and more about what you did, and I know the work as somebody who's a reporter by background that goes into doing that, I just wanted to express my appreciation for all that and for you being here.
The Role of Empathy and Personal Struggles
00:05:36
Speaker
I appreciate that. That gets me, I mean, it gets me emotional all the time, because I still, and I'll say it often, I'm a nobody, just a curious person. And um I like structure. um I believe in the truth. I believe in empathy because it's something I've struggled with my entire life. I can't watch The Little Mermaid with my daughter without crying. I get emotional. And it's become sort of the family joke that, oh my God, if even if it's a cartoon on, I'm going to get emotional about it. But you learn in my life, in my work life, through different iterations of careers,
00:06:23
Speaker
People are just beautiful. like there People are special. And and as as as a human being, they should just be respected. and And regardless of their socioeconomic situation, regardless of their religious preference or their yeah they're their're skin color or or whatever,
00:06:49
Speaker
At the end of the day, there's no difference between you and I, me and any other random person. We bleed the same and we all cry the same tears. So extending empathy for me was challenging because no one could understand it. And it wasn't until I've i've gone through several different layers of this true crime space um before I found like-minded people. And I was surprised by that. I was actually taken aback by that, and I was suspicious of it because- You're like, do these people really exist? Yeah. to to To put myself out there means I'm exposed to being laughed at. And you know it's one thing to have your wife or your kids laugh at you for getting emotional over something silly,
00:07:44
Speaker
um like I'm guaranteed to cry on a Super Bowl commercial. like it's I'm moved easily by that. so i don't think yeah I don't think a good cry is all that bad anyway. I mean, I know for a long time you know for a long time men have not been expected to cry. And as a guy who probably cries in every other podcast that he has, and I mean like genuine tears of pain, not superficial. yeah um You know, I think there's a power in it for me. There's a power in it for other people too, because I think when
00:08:22
Speaker
People can be vulnerable in front of an audience. I think it makes it easier for other people to be vulnerable. And I think it really opens up. It's the same thing with admitting mistakes. I think it really opens up the door to allow other people to be vulnerable and other people to admit their mistakes and people can see the strength in that. So I'm not sure if I consider that a negative quality.
00:08:45
Speaker
Yeah, i don't i it isn't a negative quality. I've learned to accept it. I mean, I've accepted it my entire life because even if I'm... Gosh, I remember watching some meerkat manner on Discovery Channel and and and literally falling to pieces when the the the main meerkat died from a snake bite while protecting her family. and you know Everybody in the house thought it was funny. and i am
00:09:16
Speaker
emotionally wrecked but you really can't do disney movies where the like key some key character does really hard it gets really hard sometimes like i know and you know even with stupible you know there's a lot of emotionally charged commercial That's how the the metric works. But um I think for me, I mean, i I was raised by a single mom, me and my brother. We were on welfare. We lived in the projects. It wasn't until my mother remarried that you know I was provided an opportunity for a better education and a sort of middle-class upbringing. And
00:09:57
Speaker
you know But I've never forgotten that to stay humble. And whenever i'm I find myself being even a little bit arrogant, I got a few people that'll call me up or text me and put me in check. And and to that, I really i appreciate that because you never want to get too full of yourself. You never want to forget ah who you are wearing. Or a poor person. And then I never want to, when it comes to researching the the the list case or any other case that I work with,
00:10:33
Speaker
You never want to be so full of yourself that you're you're creating a narrative, regardless of what other people think. I remain incredibly objective and open-minded.
Understanding Evil: Raoul's Perspective
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah, because it's really their narrative. it's not it's not like And I think of this as hard as a journalist.
00:10:52
Speaker
because people need narrative to understand things, but you have to remind yourself it's not the narrative that you want. You know, it's interesting you say talking about like being that that's sort of sensitive to those kinds of things, like part of me understands why you would gravitate towards something like this because you have a tremendous amount of empathy.
00:11:16
Speaker
The other part of me is like you have a tremendous amount of empathy, which really probably puts you, makes you vulnerable in a way that it wouldn't for someone like me in the sense that I do have a tremendous amount of empathy. But when I get into certain situations where I have to turn it off, or I view I have to turn it off, like, you know, reporting, I need to like turn it off and turn it on a little bit. um But It's just interesting to me that you would gravitate towards such a sad and emotionally charged case. How did you first get interested in it? Was it more of a private thing at first or did you tell me about that? I am asked this question often and I think about it more than I'm asked because I don't think that any answer I've given to date can never really articulate it properly. I mean, I had
00:12:15
Speaker
I had child abuse in my life, and I'm 56 years old, turning 57, and I still struggle with some of that. um I accept it. It's helped make me as strong as I am, but I'm a Libra, like a pure Libra, so I can fluctuate from complete puddle on the floor to you know fighting in the street. So it's hard. i think my interest really began in the psychopathy of of evil people because of the ah the abuse that was inflicted on me. And I wanted to understand what motivated this person that to do that to me. I was a kid and my brother and I'm sharing a lot and
00:13:11
Speaker
it know It all emanated from that. So i I wanted to understand triggering mechanisms for like Ted Bundy, or like I think that was the first one I really looked into. um and and And it just evolved into that. I think I was absolutely moved beyond measure by reading at like 10 or 11 years old the book Sybil.
00:13:38
Speaker
and wondering how a victim of child abuse can shatter into multiple personalities. It's interesting you say that because I think that's part of my motivation for my interest in psychology is I experienced child abuse as a child.
00:13:55
Speaker
o I think it probably affected me differently than you and it's probably a personality thing because you know it's not something that in itself I've absolutely forgiven the person and honestly moved on from that. But what you can see is it had ripple effects and it made everything else in life harder and more difficult and I always um felt that same feeling of wanting to understand perpetrators.
00:14:26
Speaker
And I'm not to excuse, although I have a tendency to excuse bad behavior, but not to necessarily excuse behavior, but to just understand, like you said, human life is precious and beautiful, how such horrible things can come from such something that is so precious and beautiful. yeah So I find what you're saying very well relatable. Yeah, and I think when, as I,
00:14:55
Speaker
really just like looked into just the madness of evil people and and at the crux of a lot of it was some profound point in their upbringing where they suffered tremendous abuse of of several different types and in some cases every single type. And and I'm grateful like My answer wasn't as bad as at all of some of these other people. But for me, my interest became what was the catalyst to make them like I won't even step on an ant. I'll move my step around to not step on an ant on the floor. Yet I am really curious how someone can go so far to the extreme opposite.
00:15:47
Speaker
Well, I, you know, one of the motives for me is not just like understanding perpetrators from me, but also I heard this line recently, someone, I can't remember where I heard it. Um, but someone said like the way that you learn to, it may have been one of my guests, but the way you learn the way a clock should work is by studying a broken clock.
00:16:14
Speaker
And I think there's some truth to that. But I think there's a part of me who also wanted to make sure that my experience was not going to lead me to become some horrible person or. Yeah, pleasure so it's it's very complicated. I think it is. I mean, I knew I could never be evil against somebody. I'm not a perfect human being. I'm not trying to. There's no halo above me. im i've I have my own faults, but um to bring violence to someone else is.
00:16:46
Speaker
To me, it's a universe of space. I don't understand it. And while I can relate, even sympathize with some of these evil people and what they Let me carefully say that I can sympathize with the abuse that they went through. I can't and I still don't understand how the the path forward for them lies on a road that that removes other people's lives from this planet. That that was that for me was the the curious element.
Shift from Suspect to Victim-Centric Focus
00:17:22
Speaker
um And I think as I when I became more and more
00:17:31
Speaker
And I still don't find the right action if it is interested or whatever with the the long the the mystery of the Long Island serial killer. um I began to not focus so much on who this killer was.
00:17:50
Speaker
but I became more focused on learning who these victims were. And that was a profound change for me because I know I can be drawn to someone, to anyone, um for a million different reasons. And all of the victims along Ocean Parkway, the Gilgo victims,
00:18:20
Speaker
had such beautiful elements around their lives. And I learned. who would talk hello talk I was going to say, do you want to talk a little bit about those victims? Because I'm not sure everyone I'm familiar with their stories to some extent because of my own research, but I'm not sure that everyone is. Yeah, most people aren't. If they are, they they know the words Shannon Gilbert.
00:18:46
Speaker
um who I consider just an angelic catalyst, you know an unwitting sacrifice that ultimately led to the discovery of of Lisk, of Rex Huerman. I think Shannon means so much to me personally, she should mean so much to the world because, and and not to take anything away from anyone, Shannon, just ah surrounding the mystery of her disappearance, the 19 months of not knowing where she was, and then ultimately finding her remains, but during that time uncovered
00:19:35
Speaker
almost all of the other remains. So Shannon goes missing and it doesn't get any real airplay. I caught it somehow. I was living on Long Island at the time. I was working in Long Island at the time and I remember i remember hearing about Shannon and it really wasn't until um The first victim was found on Ocean Parkway. That was Melissa Bartholomew. Once Melissa was found, then Maureen was found, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, then Megan Warriman, then Anne-Berlin Costello. And then you then suddenly, in for me, worlds collided where there's four bodies found along the beach, a beach that I used to go to as a kid,
00:20:32
Speaker
with with multiple similarities to be between them and the instant two letter to phrase word serial killer becomes you know paramount in that. So while I was instantly drawn to being curious about a serial killer,
00:20:55
Speaker
I was instantly balanced out by Shannon, Maureen, Melissa, Megan and Amber. And and then we found really Shannon, the the law enforcement currently believes is not a part of the the Long Island serial killer case. It may have been an accident or so is that right or something along. Yeah. Right now. they Right now they just it's undetermined. um
00:21:25
Speaker
They say it's just an unfortunate accident. um I can share that there's no evidence of murder, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. so Oh, absolutely. We yeah just don't know yet. and And although her civil case, the trial against um Peter Hackett goes to court August 6th for another hearing. um We don't know the outcome of that yet, and and any type of justice for Shannon um will help to some degree relatively for the Gilbert family to move on in some manner. But
00:22:11
Speaker
Shannon will always be The catalyst of this case, you know, I'm not I'm not gonna say that without Shannon We may never have found any of the other victims who you you can't say that yes or no But it is because of Shannon that we found and Melissa Maureen Amber um Megan Jessica Valerie, parts of peaches, Asian dough, and toddler. So Shannon is, Shannon predicated the Long Island serial killer case. It is because of Shannon's unwitting sacrifice. And it it and should not be, she may not be a list victim.
00:23:01
Speaker
But she is the case. Her role shouldn't be minimized because to some extent, you know. And that's what bothers me when I even stand up for Shannon.
00:23:15
Speaker
ah People go, well, she's not a Liz victim, so we're not going to talk about her. Well, you you should you shouldn't just relegate her to the back room. She doesn't deserve that. You wouldn't have a forum to talk about if it wasn't for Shannon. And I think she may not be a Liz victim, but she deserves to be part of the conversation.
00:23:37
Speaker
Well, she began, regardless of whether she's a list victim, she began the process of solving the case.
Reaction to Rex Heurmann's Arrest
00:23:43
Speaker
That's at the end of the day, she really she really did. um You know, I remember the experience of getting the call.
00:23:53
Speaker
I was in Hilton Head on vacation with my brother. Lisk was the last thing I was thinking about. But I got a call from a New York reporter who, you know from from the good old days when I was reporting in New York, when it was the morning after Rex Herman was arrested, and I was sitting at the airport, this tiny little airport in Hilton Head where like you could throw a rock across the whole parking lot.
00:24:17
Speaker
And, you know, soon after I got the charging documents on my phone, I reached out to like three creators in true crime who are my friends and Well, two out of three didn't believe me. the and The third was like, I know your info is good. um So I'm after I let them know about it, got the documents to them. I started looking up Rex Heurmann's family and I found Victoria Heurmann's resume portfolio and phone number online. And that really sort of like
00:24:54
Speaker
struck me as somebody who's been involved in a scandal and knows what's about to happen like instantly you know in an hour to this is gonna get announced and everyone's gonna have her inflamm information so I I was sitting at the airport and I got out my phone and I sent a text to her number and said, you should take this all down now. You should take it down. And I i thought that was like an interesting reaction for me to immediately think of um something like that. And, you know, I,
00:25:29
Speaker
I thought the case would never be solved because of the way that the police had handled it and and and because of the backgrounds of the the victims. um I really thought it would never be solved because the effort that I had seen so far um didn't really impress me. The way the FBI was treated, I had heard a little bit about their interactions and it didn't really impress me. What was your reaction when you heard So I was actually in a laundromat doing laundry and I had just put the wet clothes in the dryer. This is so embarrassing. um And it was about 5 40 a.m. because I'm an early bird. And I got a text message. Yours horses are better than mine.
00:26:22
Speaker
It took another hour for me. I got a text message that this was about to break and a suspect was in custody and I freaked out. I started messaging a couple of people um that I'm close with and um the scramble began.
00:26:43
Speaker
like I had 15 minutes before the news was gonna break publicly. And I'm stuck in a goddamn laundromat waiting, wet clothes to dry. And I'm like, my laptop is at home. I cannot do this here. It's too hot. I'm already freaking out. Damn, the wet clothes to hell. I threw them all in the bag and I ran back to the house. And I was, you know, within eight minutes, I was at at where I'm sitting now on my laptop.
00:27:15
Speaker
and
00:27:18
Speaker
emotionally Did you ever think it would be solved? Did you think it would be solved? No. I always felt like it could be solved. I wanted to believe Rodney Harrison with all my heart when he came in saying it was going to be a priority. But he came in and it was silence.
00:27:38
Speaker
And I was much more ignorant then than I am now. And I was also much more full of piss and vinegar. So, you know, my tweets, you know, when Suffolk County Police Department would tweet how they stop traffic on the Southern State Parkway so some ducklings can cross. And I'm like, how about solving some fucking serial murders, for Christ's sake, you know? And I would put that out there on on Instagram, on Twitter. Like, I would just I was relentless with that. But I think the news of that day rocked me because everything
00:28:17
Speaker
that I was looking into and researching and have become committed to and the relationships and friendships that I built over many years, suddenly we were at the precipice of something and incredibly monumental. And i I went through a million emotions. I went through euphoria. I went i i had a complete meltdown on my sofa. It was hysterical.
00:28:48
Speaker
um I called people and hung up at six o'clock in the morning. I'm like, they don't need to know this right now. um But I think after the first 10 minutes of it, and and just the shock of it all, I just went and I thought of each of the victims. And then I thought of each of their family members. um And then I lost it even more, probably really hard because having gotten to know so many of them, um i felt for them I felt for them really deeply.
00:29:31
Speaker
I remember I think it was when I was reading the book Lost Girls, that's the first time. You know, it's really interesting for all the news coverage that I read
Importance of Victim-Centric Narratives
00:29:42
Speaker
about it. I think Lost Girls was the first time the book where I got any sense of their backstories, any sense of what their families were like.
00:29:52
Speaker
And I mean, as a reporter, it wasn't ridiculously so surprising, but I think for a lot of people, it's really surprising what kind of families they came from and how some of those families were so similar to yeah to just anyone's. And, you know, I remember this time where I was reading Lost Girls and I was in Virginia and I was at the house I shared with my partner at the time.
00:30:19
Speaker
And she was in Long Island visiting her family members. And I was reading through that whole book and I was getting to the end of the book. And I remember saying afterwards, perhaps you should not read a book about a serial killer where your partner is traveling. um And, you know, I am not want for that kind of panic because I know the odds, but like I picked up the phone. I was like, are you okay? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She was like, calm down. um And I just remember,
00:30:48
Speaker
in that moment through reading the book, and this is long before any of it was solved, feeling so deeply for the families and the impact that it had on the community at the same time, sort of political leaders and others were not moving. What it what was it like for the families waiting? ah Well, it's hard. It's hard. I can only express my opinion on what they went through because I didn't go through that. um
00:31:26
Speaker
if you go even I won't go back as far as Sandra Castilla's family because I haven't spoken with them and and i don't I don't know them. Um, and Sandra's the victim that they recently identified from 1993. Okay. And that's more recent one. yeah Yeah. And you look, you go back to 2003 with Jessica Taylor, her family there, um, absolutely shattered to this day. Absolutely shattered. They, they can't speak. They can't,
00:32:02
Speaker
be in front of a camera. they ah Another unknown thing about them too that I'm sure you're familiar with because I've had some conversations with her cousin and a couple other people in their family just by happenstance.
00:32:19
Speaker
um you know Not only were these people sort of like left to wonder, not having much law enforcement interaction, according to them. They were even scammed by people once the once the case happened. There were people who took advantage of them, people who shouldn't have like lawyers and other people like that. And that really took me aback. Yeah, I mean, it never ends. There's always some sort of
00:32:52
Speaker
institutionalized grifting that capitalize on it. That's why, just to flash forward to where my advocacy is now, when I see somebody with a missing person and they're like, call my cell, I'm like, the first thing you want to do is not call your cell. Don't give your cell out, because you will have people even saying like, we have her and, you know, send us $5,000 and we'll release her. Like people are that despicable, that despicable. And that that's that's horrible, to prey on people's most vulnerable moment when they're looking for their loved one, um to try to make money is just just reprehensible to me. like that There's no God for people like that. And I think it's it's terrible.
00:33:41
Speaker
um Lost Girls was an incredible book that was purely victim-centric. But even prior to that, Timothy Bolger from the Long Island Press was the first one to put out there an article um called Lost Girls about ah missing Megan Waterman from Rhode Island, from Maine rather, forgive me, and you know started to humanize sex workers and and the plight. And I think we we while Lost Girls certainly was victim-centric and gave us an incredible bibliography, if you will, of information, it then all falls off the radar for a number of years. And during that that missing period of time, narratives were created
00:34:38
Speaker
um really just victim shaming, victim blaming, blaming families. And it it it really became just something so disgusting to me. Like there were truths and there were lies and the lies had the floor. And for me, it was a problem. And that's when I started collecting, well, here's the rumor. Well, here's an opposite rumor. And here's a secondary opposite. And I started to want to flesh out what was the truth. And one of the one of the interesting things about this case, just putting myself in the victims, shoes of the of the victim's family members, and then sort of like myself at the same time,
00:35:31
Speaker
I think as this case has progressed and we've learned more and more details about what happened, it has not been easier. you know A lot of times people think knowing the answer will help them. The more that I find out, like the most recent revelations about the likelihood of torture and the likelihood that they were held for days,
00:35:56
Speaker
the more pain I feel, not to say that like there isn't importance to the truth, but um I think the path to healing can be really long. The path to healing is right now and an endless road. It's a bottomless pit. There isn't a foreseeable future. ah you could You can jump ahead to a conviction and then a path forward.
00:36:22
Speaker
But the distance between present day now and a conviction is a world of torment that these families are going to have to experience. If this goes to trial, what we learned in in the most recent superseding bail document is probably nothing in comparison that what what will be revealed in trial. And it's hard. the This superseding bail document was devastating to read. You don't even have to have compassion or empathy and not go, my God, what is this? And how can a how can a human do this, plan this, prepare for this, and and sort of assess their success in this? It it's it really is depraved.
00:37:17
Speaker
and what may come out in court in a trial is, is exponentially more shattering. And it's hard. We don't even know the results of the autopsies yet. And there's so much more evidence that they have, like the superseding bail document is descriptive um in a limited way.
Complexity and Sensitivity of Evidence
00:37:45
Speaker
One, because the prosecution isn't irresponsible. And two, it's not necessarily ready for any public consumption. I don't know if I'm ready for this. And I've i've seen autopsy photos. I've seen case files on on horrible things. and they don't sit well with with me. I can't imagine them sitting well with somebody with even a little bit less empathy than I have. And to know you know that there are certainly you know photos and and crime scene photos is is just something, i me personally, I don't want to experience. Me as, as
00:38:29
Speaker
having relationships with some of the family members, I don't want them to go through that. that And I imagine some will choose not to. Some will choose to. And I think the important part in there is finding your own, figuring out your own path to healing and having people who advise you on that there's no one way to do it. Whatever is going to bring you peace. I wanted to ask you, you know, there are a couple of things in the case.
00:39:01
Speaker
and about the victims. um And I wanted to ask you whether you believe that the Long Island Serial Killer, because I know Sherman is not, you know, it's not fully adjudicated yet, but the Long Island Serial Killer, do you believe that they targeted um certain types of victims beyond factors like their their simple factors like their appearance and height and things like that? Do you think, you know,
00:39:29
Speaker
does it appear that the person was targeting people who were on the margins because they would get less attention? I think yeah i think historically,
00:39:43
Speaker
if you look at people struggling with drug addiction, um people doing survival work, people on the perceived fringes of society, people that don't have anybody looking out for them as a perception looking out at them, um they're more vulnerable. And they are. ah you know To say that they're not is to be disingenuous. um They are more vulnerable. They are in more riskier environments or occupations.
00:40:20
Speaker
whether it's a willingness to participate or a necessity to participate in some of these things. um Plus, it opens up to a a spectrum of of personalities that have overwhelming desires, whether they're sexually driven or to induce physical pain driven or emotionally manipulating driven. And in in rare cases like serial killers, it's all of them in one. So marginalized people are the easiest of targets because
00:41:06
Speaker
They go missing. They're probably not in the same location that they live. Their family is is scattered about or far away from where they are or were last seen.
00:41:20
Speaker
um And the perception is is that they're not thought of or cared for. That was the that was the narrative surrounding Jessica Taylor, that her family didn't care and all of this nonsense when it was so far from reality that it's insulting.
Engagement and Upcoming Events
00:41:41
Speaker
Our second episode with Raoul comes next week. If you'd like to join us for more discussions with me and other listeners, we can be found on most social media platforms, including a listener-driven Facebook group called the Silver Linings Fireside Chat. For deeper conversations with our guests and live conversations with other listeners, you can also join us on our Patreon at www.patreon dot.com forward slash the Silver Linings handbook.
00:42:23
Speaker
Thanks for staying until the end. Before you go, I want to let you know about a true crime podcasting meetup we're going to be holding at the Hotel Ivy in downtown Minneapolis on Saturday, December 7th from 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. We'll be doing a live show with some great true crime podcasts have guests from the forensic science firm, Othram and the Gabby Petito Foundation, advocates and some fun events. We're also going to do a live investigation of an actual case. If you're interested, you can go to our Facebook page to find the event sign up or to www.silverliningshandbook dot.com to sign up there. There's no cost and we hope to see you.