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Another Vamp Bites the Dust (part 2) - Ep 18
244 Plays7 months ago
It’s time for part two of our discussion with forensic anthropologist, osteoarchaeologist, and conservator Jessica van Dam, as we discuss the issue of vampire teeth. Are there archaeological examples of vampires in the real world? (Spoiler: yes) Can we look at bones to see what happened to that person in life? (Spoiler: yes) Do vampire teeth and hair continue to grow once they become vampires? (Spoiler: we have no idea, but have great fun discussing it!)
Links
- News article on Roman burial with a flat stone in the mouth
- News article on burial with a sickle over her neck
- News article on the “Vampire of Venice”
- News article on the “Vampire of Lugnano”
- Video explaining “dendrochronology for teeth”
- Jessica's Website
Contact
- Email: [email protected]
- Instagram: @and.my.trowel
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 18
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You have my sword. And you have my boat. And my trowel. Hi, you're listening to episode 18 of And My Trowel, where we look at the fantastic side of archaeology and the archaeological side of fantasy. I'm Tilly. And I'm Ash. And this is part two of our discussion with Jessica Von Dung.
Vampire Teeth Discovery
00:00:25
Speaker
Bye.
00:00:27
Speaker
So in case you didn't join us for part one, although I would very much recommend going back and having a listen, but just to recap, we have a bit of a difficult situation on our hands. Helsing Housing have called us in to help them with several burials found within their new development area. Each burial has vampire teeth found as a grave good within the Inhumation, and we then have a fangaless vampire requesting their teeth back.
00:00:49
Speaker
So this one might be a slightly difficult quest to complete because I can't really think of many vampires in the archaeological record that we could compare this with.
00:00:59
Speaker
Well, we've kind of already mentioned that there are vampires in the historical record, but Tilly, did you know that there are actually vampires also in the archaeological record? Wait, really? Yeah. They're known as vampire burials or should I say actually anti-vampire burials? Jess, you may know something more about this actually. I know a tiny bit. I know that. Very limited.
00:01:24
Speaker
I'm going to mess up this pronunciation, so I apologize to any Polish listeners. Pien, Poland. There's a 17th century anti-vampire burial within a cemetery where a young woman was buried with a sickle around her neck, and there was another with a child's remains buried face down with a padlock around their ankle. A padlock? Yeah, presumably to keep them in the grave.
00:01:50
Speaker
Which is alarming. That is very alarming, isn't it? Or maybe they lost the key. Oh gosh, okay. But it's generally concluded that this cemetery overall was for anyone who was sort of rejected by society or had any reason, people had reason to fear them after death, but possibly in life as well.
Deviant Burials and Historical Beliefs
00:02:14
Speaker
At least that is according to Dr. Darius Polinski.
00:02:19
Speaker
Oh, he was the researcher, wasn't he? At the actual dig. Yes. That's interesting, isn't it? Because I feel that there's some other archaeological ones that you can find where it's often like children or women that have something wrong with them in a way. So we talked a little bit. Yeah, it's all specifically, isn't it?
00:02:41
Speaker
But it seems that there's a sickness or something in these cemeteries that's going on and the archaeological evidence brings that out. And so you can see that there's one, the most, I think probably the most famous one is the vampire of Longnado in Italy.
00:02:55
Speaker
or even the vampire Venice as well. So there's a, in the Longnado in Italy, it's actually a child's graveyard. It's called the cemetery of the babies. And there's a 10 year old child who was found buried next to like a fifth century things, which is like Roman, I think. And it's a malaria graveyard. And the child was actually found with a stone inserted into its mouth.
00:03:22
Speaker
But it meant that, like, a lot of, you know, you look at it, if your eye found that, I'd be like, well, maybe it just fell in there or something, you know, maybe there was some animal burrowing or something and the stone somehow got in there. But actually, you know, the positioning of the jaw meant that it was unlikely that it got there through decomposition. And there was even marks found on the cement of the stone that matched the child's teeth.
00:03:43
Speaker
So it's clear that it was put into the mouth and it seemed likely that the child, they don't know the sex. I mean, it was very difficult to tell, especially for children. It's really difficult anyway. That how they had a bad tooth abscess, which could possibly be caused by malaria since it was in the cemetery as well.
Myths Around Death and Decomposition
00:04:08
Speaker
I've actually, I have heard of other like, I remember now, it's all coming back to me, at uni, and they always had like a big stone on their chest or like, yeah, were face down, or had like some sort of tie, or not tie as in like a bow tie, but tie as in like, because that would be a vampire, like, their hands were tied or something like that. And they would, yeah, they were called vampire perials.
00:04:35
Speaker
or a brick in the jaw. Yeah. That's like a method to like keep them from eating anything. Oh, okay. Eating themselves apparently as well. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, like, and I guess that's the whole thing with being facedown as well, because it's harder to get out. Like you start digging. And if you're trying to dig yourself out, you're more likely to just dig in front of you. So if you're facedown, then you're less likely to dig yourself out. I don't know. It makes a certain sense. Right.
00:05:08
Speaker
be a bit discombobulated. I can't get out, I'm facing the wrong way. I'll just lie here then. I'll just be here forever. Ever and ever.
00:05:25
Speaker
And I'm curious, because we already mentioned, you mentioned in the last episode, Jess, that vampirism was associated with consumption and all of this kind of thing. Are there any other things, so like blood around the mouth or elongated fangs or something? Because I feel like there was something similar in Europe where it was associated with the plague or other kinds of illnesses. Are there other common illnesses from that time which could have also led to vampirism?
Historical Vampire Perceptions and Illnesses
00:05:52
Speaker
I mean, it really could have been anything. I mean, we were just talking about a malaria cemetery. I think any any disease that would leave a person sort of debilitated over time and waste away could be associated with like some sort of vampirism. I don't know specifically, but like even tuberculosis, there's a point at which you're coughing up so much blood that there's always sort of a trickle of blood coming down from your mouth. So that's why that one specifically
00:06:22
Speaker
I know about, but especially with the osteological record, I mean, you're missing pieces, you're missing soft tissue. And so like, yeah, the abscess could be from a malaria outbreak. It could have just been a cavity. It could have been
00:06:37
Speaker
The kid chewed around rocks. I don't know. So like... That's why you had the rock in his mouth. Oh, what was the name? The Nicholas Tarias Tarias Polinski? No, that was the different one. That was another burial. Oh, yes. The Pian Poland burial. Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:59
Speaker
So I mean, it could be anything really. But I think there was a few myths that I've heard about or sort of unidentified rumors that like hair will keep growing or fingernails will keep growing after death. And so people were like, ah, this must mean that they're not actually dead.
00:07:15
Speaker
So it's really like a lack of an understanding about decomposition of a body. Yeah, exactly. The explanation for the fingernails specifically is that, and teeth for that matter, is that the soft tissue loses its moisture in the desiccation process or the decomposition process. The hard tissues like the nails or the teeth sort of stay in place, but all the surrounding soft tissue sort of disappears or
00:07:42
Speaker
shrinks in on itself and so it looks like things have gone longer but really they've just stayed in place while things around it got smaller. So they've got thinner rather than longer really. Yeah exactly. Oh interesting. And that's why they look like corpses vampires because they are
00:08:02
Speaker
People in the past have just had a very active imagination. I think we've established that. And it's quite interesting as well that these kind of vampire or anti-vampire burials, because it's preventing the vampire from rising, are also kind of buried differently. So obviously they've got the brick in the mouth or they've got a sickle over their neck or they're facing downward. Sometimes they have a stone on their chest to keep them in place.
00:08:28
Speaker
And perhaps it's maybe a good time to point out to our listeners that as archaeologists, if we find a burial that doesn't quite fit the classifications of typical burials, especially when they're in a place or a landscape that has a more dogmatic ritual. Oh, sorry, I said the word.
00:08:51
Speaker
Like in the medieval or post-medieval period, you know, you always have to be buried a certain way. We actually call them deviant burials. So vampire burials to us are classified as deviant burials. They're different burials. That is a good point. But also that means that if you're reading an archaeological paper and you see that someone's saying, oh, this deviant burial, you can think, ah, it's a vampire.
00:09:16
Speaker
Okay, it really is possible then to look at vampires as an archaeologist as well. It's not just history and folklore. There is archaeological evidence for archaeology. Well, luckily, we have with us Jess, who is a specialised forensic anthropologist and osteoarchaeologist.
Skeletal Analysis Techniques
00:09:31
Speaker
So she's an expert in looking at dead bodies.
00:09:33
Speaker
So maybe we can chat a little bit more about that. So you already mentioned this a little bit in the last episode of the paleopathologies that you can see. So you can see if someone was ill, for example, but what else can you actually tell from just looking at the bones? You can estimate age. With children, it's a lot easier because children's teeth, here we go with teeth, they erupt at regular intervals. It's very standardized to within
00:10:04
Speaker
a month, I think I can't remember exactly close. Yeah, no, it's, it's really precise. And so
00:10:11
Speaker
I mean, as they get older, I think it gets, it gets a little bit more vague, but there's certain like bones when they're growing, they start off as like multiple pieces of bone and then they slowly fuse together. And that fusion happens at different times also. And so up until about 27, that's when the last bone typically fuses and it's the clavicle. So that's like the moment that like.
00:10:34
Speaker
You start aging as it were. 27. Just broken bodies from that. On the dot. At 27 you start liking olives and you start to decrease the wealth. Nap times become an obligation not a choice.
00:11:04
Speaker
You can estimate sex to a certain degree. Males tend to be more robust in their skeletal system. Females are more grass island, so they're a little bit more delicate.
Fantasy vs. Reality in Vampire Lore
00:11:16
Speaker
But obviously, you know, if you look around a room of people, there are, you know,
00:11:22
Speaker
More gracile men there are more robust females and so that's not as like reliable of an estimation and so a recent discovery that i heard about was that the.
00:11:34
Speaker
did an analysis of a samurai burial. Like there was a bunch of burials from the specific battle. And so they were like, Oh, it must be all men. But then they did an osteological assessment. And they discovered that most in fact, were women. So I don't actually know what methods they used. But it was still really cool. Because
00:11:53
Speaker
We are maligned. Yeah. I have a strange story relating to grass aisle features. This is totally a sign. Speaking of grass aisle features. My friend, when she gets, she's also an osteologist and when she gets quite drunk, she likes to tell people what their features are like of their, like this facial structure. So she would just grab my face and be like, you have such a grass aisle chin. I'd be like, thank you.
00:12:21
Speaker
You're mandible. Wow. Grass aisle. Thank you. That's amazing. So you can talk that with skin on too, apparently. So there you go. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so like, you know, one of my friends who's male, he has very like pronounced orbital ridges so that like, it's sort of like, quote unquote, like that Neanderthal look.
00:12:46
Speaker
which is sort of like protruding forehead around the eyebrows. I bet he was happy with you when you said that. Yes. Well, I don't drunkenly talk about people's facial features, but...
00:13:01
Speaker
But, like, there's certain people who see that and go, ah, yes, a strong male must pursue, you know? But then there's others who are like, oh, no, I want actual, like, employment, or, you know. Oh, like, that grass owl chins while doing this amazing, like. Grass owl chins, that's my thing.
00:13:21
Speaker
So it's not bad. So from your wealth of knowledge, how would you be able to tell if it's a vampire, through teeth maybe, or how can we see how a person died?
Detecting Trauma in Archaeology
00:13:35
Speaker
Can we see that on the bones? To a certain degree, if it was like trauma, say to just soft tissue, and it didn't affect the bones at all, then you wouldn't be able to tell if it was like,
00:13:46
Speaker
I know that there's been some burials where they found arrowheads literally stuck in a rib. And it's like, oh, did they die? I wonder, right? Or there's like, I think we need to call it an osteoarchaeologist for this one. Oh, difficult. Or distinct signs of decapitation. That's going to show up on your vertebra. But in terms of a vampire, it really depends on what
00:14:16
Speaker
like mythology were following in the sort of like Dracula. Myth. Like, do they like or like or even in Buffy, do they turn into like a puff of smoke or or like dust? And so then you wouldn't find any evidence of them or, you know, are they more of the like desiccated vampire diary ones, in which case you would see like, oh, they have like spare fangs hidden in their skull or
00:14:46
Speaker
you know, there's, you kind of have to imagine, are we talking about like, yeah, which, which fantasy realm are we in? And that's a good point. They wouldn't have a skeleton technically, if they die as a vampire. So that means that the teeth in our burial were pulled when they were undead. Well, if I remember the scenario, wasn't the vampire who
00:15:17
Speaker
They were his teeth. Yeah, he's still alive. That's true. He's still alive. So they're his teeth. So they're his teeth and they are, they could possibly be vampire teeth. Yeah. And well, I mean like theoretically, if
00:15:40
Speaker
claims that they're his they would fit back in place maybe how long he's been without his teeth and does his skeleton keep growing or like healing or you know that kind of debate I don't know
00:15:59
Speaker
Oh my god, Tilly, I thought you dealt with our flying book problem. They're alive and kicking up dust around the fines train. Oh, for goodness sake. Hang on. I'll just have a word with the book dragons. They're clearly not guarding them properly. We'll be right back, everyone. Hello. Welcome back to and my trial. So the book dragons are on it now so we can continue without interruption.
00:16:21
Speaker
Oh, that's great. We played them plenty of gold. So fingers crossed we have it under control now. Anyway, where were we? Uh, vampires. Yay. So Jess, can you tell us a little bit more about the techniques you use on human burials?
Aging and Morality in Vampire Lore
00:16:38
Speaker
And do you think we can use the same ones to determine a vampire burial? Well, to start off, do we think that vampires in this context
00:16:50
Speaker
continue growing the way we do as humans, i.e. like if you get a tooth pulled, your bone sort of fills in the gaps, or do you think they're just sort of like as they are forever? Well, I think in our live vampire who's come across on site is actually missing their fangs. So no, they don't grow.
00:17:15
Speaker
Which makes sense with the rest of mythology as well, right? Because they always remain, like, forever young. Like, they remain the age that they... Sorry. That's actually also a part in, I just realised I haven't brought it into this episode yet, in Turifashes. In Carpe Diogulum, which is one of my favourites.
00:17:41
Speaker
of the witches series, which involves vampires, and there's a family of vampires, which is very, very rare. And so they've got two kids. And then one of them at some point during the book is like, wait, hang on, why are you making all the decisions? He's like, because I'm head of the family. I'm the eldest. And he's like, but you're always going to be the eldest. Like, I'm always going to be a 12 year old girl. Like, does this mean you're going to be the head of the family forever? And it's like, oh, yeah, that's, that's the thing. Like, you're like, interview with a vampire.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah, I can't remember her name now, but... Oh my god. A Kirsten Dunst's character, but I can't remember her name either. Oh, she's a vampire? I have to do that. Well, it's not really a spoiler thing now since like... Yeah, yeah, don't worry about it. But yeah, and it's also like the little vampire. Have you ever seen that while he turned the cows?
00:18:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. So they've got children as well. And I don't think they age, which honestly, it sounds absolutely hell on earth to be stuck in a 12 year old body. Thank you. I can be a perpetual 12 year old. Yeah. Yeah, no, I was so awkward.
00:18:43
Speaker
But I wonder if you're like, because when you're younger, this is now going on a total rabbit hole, but because when you're younger, like, do vampires keep the same like hormonal things and stuff? Because obviously, when you're younger, you don't have I'm just thinking of my two year old right now who has absolutely no empathy or like anything like that. Like if she would turn into a vampire, does that mean that as she grows up in inverted commas, she'd still have that lack of empathy? Or would she develop
00:19:10
Speaker
like different in terms of like emotions and hormones and all of that kind of thing. Like, does that develop? Well, there was touched on an interview with a vampire because Kirsten Dunst's character is like eight or something. And so still is like very selfish and just like, no, I want to do the things I want to do. And so the their premise was that she was not going to change and she was always going to be this little hell beast.
00:19:34
Speaker
But then in theory. But she learns. She has like, because she wants to be a woman, doesn't she? Yeah. So she is like, she has the mind of a hundred year old, whatever, but the emotional range of a eight year old. Oh gosh. So like, maybe you can learn the theory, but there's no like,
00:19:58
Speaker
true feeling behind it. I feel like in a lot of vampire law, like if we're talking about fantasy, it is highly immoral for vampires, which is mad to think about, to turn children. That's like the worst thing you could possibly do as a vampire.
00:20:18
Speaker
But anyway, sorry, I took us down a bit of a rabbit hole there because, yes, that's talking about the emotional or the hormonal aging of a vampire, but what we want to know is whether they would actually physically age, because I guess that would depend what you could actually tell them. So you said that the vampire in our scenario didn't have newly grown teeth that had regrown after the fangs had been taken out.
00:20:43
Speaker
No, he seems to have no teeth or no fangs. Okay. All right. Do you think of teeth? Okay. So now I'm going to just show my ignorance because I have no idea how teeth work. I feel like they don't get bigger, do they? Do they grow? Can you date a tooth? So yes and no. I mean,
00:21:04
Speaker
The teeth are growing like in your jaw or like your upper jaw kind of thing and and then like the the enamel part starts growing first and then the root grows from that and that's where like the teeth erupt from like your mouth as you're a baby and then as a child when you get your permanent teeth and then past that they don't really grow
00:21:25
Speaker
technically, so you don't see any sort of visible naked eye changes.
Microanalysis of Tooth Roots
00:21:31
Speaker
But what you do see in microanalysis is if you cut a tooth root into a very tiny thin slice and you look at it through a microscope, there are lines called cementum lines. And so it's the layer on the outside of the tooth root. And so then you are adding
00:21:53
Speaker
a tree. But the problem is that these layers are very inconsistent. So it's very hard to be truly precise. In the research I did, I was very imprecise to the point where it was just not useful. There are people who
00:22:10
Speaker
which sounds like a nightmare to me. But for vampires, it would be interesting if they did keep growing these layers or if they stopped when they became a vampire.
Ownership of Vampire Teeth
00:22:24
Speaker
So like when they became undead, would that process stop? And then in theory, if that was true,
00:22:33
Speaker
then maybe they're like tooth sockets. So in your scenario with this vampire wanting their teeth back, they could have a sort of empty tooth socket and could you put them back in somehow? I don't know. Ultimately, I don't know.
00:22:49
Speaker
would they go like, and just start growing again? Because that's the thing as well, at least into repression, where you can, the vampire gets his head cut off, but you have to, in that one, you have to cut the head off and stake them through the heart as well. So if you just cut the head off, you can technically just plop the head back on.
00:23:05
Speaker
So yeah, that's in a lot of myths, isn't it? Where you can like reattach limbs and I hate to be the one that brings up Twilight again, but I think even that they're like stone and if you reassemble them, they will be alive or dead again. Yeah. So if you had the teeth and pop them in and they just sort of, the roots went, ah, and like regrew again. Yeah.
00:23:33
Speaker
or just some super little teeth. But that would mean that the teeth would have to because when it tooth so I assume that it only creates these layers that you're talking about, Jess, when they're in the mouth, but if you would take tooth out, it doesn't create like it dies at that point. Yeah, correct.
00:23:57
Speaker
So yeah, so ultimately I think the tooth would die when you pull it out and then in the context of a vampire perhaps the tooth dies when they become a vampire and become undead because theoretically they are dead.
00:24:13
Speaker
But so because I guess the other side of it would be though, if we've already established that like emotional and skeletal and all of that kind of stuff stops growing when a vampire is made into a vampire, then logically the teeth also would be dead. So they wouldn't also age either. So I guess yeah, immortality would kind of screw up your your the results of any analysis that you might make in this case, right? Exactly. So
00:24:40
Speaker
If we're then looking at it in terms of kind of dead teeth that have been extracted from a vampire, are they, bear with me, still then part of the vampire?
00:24:56
Speaker
Or because they're kind of object, I mean, this is getting into the whole human remains versus objects issue as well. Like bones, like necklace made from human bones, is that still human remains? Or is that classified as an object? Like, yeah. But then the vampire is still alive.
00:25:16
Speaker
Okay. So like it is, it's not separated by time because the vampire is still present and there's literally onsite saying, I think they're my teeth. I want them back. So is it different? What do you think, Jess? Well, I would consider the vampire as the living dead would have rights over their own teeth because A, they belong to them, but also
00:25:43
Speaker
One could consider them the vampire's burial goods as the original possessor of the teeth, whereas the vampire hunter stole the teeth. And so then the vampire hunter would have to repatriate the teeth to the vampire. I think that's how it would roll.
00:26:05
Speaker
I think that sounds fair. Yeah. Would you agree yet? Yeah, I think that sounds absolutely fair. I think they don't even have to put a repatriation request in. I think really, people should give their teeth back. It's pretty clear. You can literally, if he can literally point at the gap in his gums and be like, look,
00:26:25
Speaker
Exactly. So yeah, I think that would be easy. That would be an easy check as well, as Jess pointed out earlier, if you could actually slot the tooth back into the vampire's mouth and be like, yep, okay, cool. These are your teeth. So interestingly, the solution to this problem is not archaeological.
00:26:53
Speaker
That's all, it's literally a puzzle piece. But I guess we could also, if we wanted to be fancy about it, we could ask Jess to find out how old the teeth are and then ask the vampire how old he was when he died and if that matches up then they could also be his teeth.
00:27:14
Speaker
I also have a bit of an archaeology question with teeth, because obviously we do isotope analysis on teeth. How would that work with vampire teeth? I'm genuinely just curious about this. Would it be the same? I think it would be, because theoretically they would gain nutrients from anywhere they grew up before they became a vampire, and then as they're consuming other people's blood, surely their isotope
00:27:43
Speaker
stuff would be somehow involved in their blood potential. That would be so confusing. There's a lot of layers. Could you pinpoint the victims of a vampire then? Where they grew up potentially? And then how would you know if it's where the vampire grew up or where the person who they've been feasting on recently grew up?
00:28:07
Speaker
Right. I feel like you'd have to do like stomach content analysis as opposed to like, I don't know, like hair follicle or teeth analysis. Yeah. Well, which also I guess hair doesn't grow either on vampires. I guess so. Well, that feels awkward to me.
00:28:30
Speaker
Well, I apologize for bringing you in, Jess, because it seems like we didn't actually need your skills of analysis at all. Even though you're extremely skilled at what you do, we, like Jess said, we just had a puzzle piece. I'm offended. Well, what's interesting is that so as an art conservator now, working in a museum, I work more with like repatriation comes up a lot in like museum conversations. So that's, it's an interesting alignment of my
00:29:01
Speaker
as it were, and work experience. So it has been totally futile.
00:29:06
Speaker
See, we did it just for you. Yeah. Yeah. It was curated or something. Well, that's pretty fantastic then. So our scenario is finished. It's done. What we do is we go up to the vampire in question. We invite him on site, get him a hard hat, get him some high vis. It's really clean. We know he's a baby.
00:29:33
Speaker
We take him over to the burial. We clean off a bit of it, you know, off the teeth. We record it beforehand, remember? Always record it. Record it, take photos, post-ex, whatever. And then we give him the teeth and he slots them back into his gums and you yell it. The roots just together. And he goes, oh, thank God, I can finally eat. I don't have to use a straw anymore.
00:30:18
Speaker
If we find some plastic vampire teeth in another burial, we'll know what's happened. Exactly. But that's brilliant. So thank you so much, Jess, for joining us. But before we go, do you have anything that you'd like to share
00:30:27
Speaker
He takes out the plastic vampire teeth from his pocket.
Conclusion and Future Projects
00:30:32
Speaker
with our listeners? Perhaps there's some exciting projects that are coming up or any future plans for you.
00:30:37
Speaker
There's not too many. Me and my supervisor Mimi Leveque, she works on mummies, and so I'm hoping to do more of those kind of projects in the art conservation world. But other than that, you know, life continues. Just working on becoming Amelia Peabody. Oh my God, yes. The dream.
00:30:59
Speaker
Well, I think if we ever bump into a mummy, we're going to have to get you back on. Yes. Yeah. For another episode. Yeah. If any of those crap up, call in Brendan Fraser. I'll let you know. I'll keep your details on file. Just in case. A little handy jotter.
00:31:17
Speaker
Well, that's about it for this episode of And My Trial. We hope that you enjoyed this quest. Thank you so much, Jess, for coming, even though, as we said, we didn't really end up needing all of the information that you gave us. Thanks for having me on. It was still great to have you here and to discuss things. Yeah, we've learned a lot, so thank you for coming. And in the meantime,
00:31:39
Speaker
as always we're always looking for new episode ideas we've already got a couple today definitely need to do an episode on mummies apparently so if you have any suggestions do get in contact via email or social media all of our contact info can be found in the show notes and you can also find in the show notes all of the studies and interesting examples of vampire burials that we spoke about today so do go check them out um Tilly not to alarm you but don't turn around oh god that
00:32:08
Speaker
why just something very big just slithered out of that lake behind you oh yeah you're right Ash that's that's not at all alarming
00:32:25
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Cultural Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.