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Revisiting: All Electric Vehicles Vs. Hybrids - What to consider when choosing your next car
203 Plays2 years ago
Welcome to the Plug In For More podcast! Mike, Tom, and Bryant are here to help you on your journey to an Electric vehicle future. Each episode we discuss current events, trends, and a specific topic of education related to EV's. We bring together a diverse experience set, and pair it with guests who are experts in the field. For even more information on EV's, check out www.EVUniverse.com.
In this epsisode, originally aired in May of 2022 Mike, Tom, and Bryant discuss the differences between an all electric vehicle and a plug in hybrid vehicle. The take aways from the discussion may not be what you think. Listen in to see why a Hybrid vehicle may not be the "best of both worlds".
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Transcript
Introduction to Electric vs Hybrid Vehicles
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the plugin for more podcasts. I'm Tom and in this week's episode we're presenting an already released episode. Originally we released this one in May of 2022. This episode discusses the difference between an all-electric vehicle and a hybrid vehicle. It's an important distinction to make when it comes time to pull the trigger on a new vehicle.
Hybrids vs All-Electrics: Pros and Cons
00:00:20
Speaker
While the Swiss Army Knife and all-in-one printer scanner copiers have their place, it doesn't always translate to every tool we use.
00:00:28
Speaker
Listen in to find our take on hybrids and why it isn't necessarily the best of both worlds. Lastly, we appreciate your time and taking the chance to listen to our show. But we want to make a big ask. On behalf of the plugin for more team, I want to ask you to take a moment to rate and review our podcast in whichever platform you're using.
00:00:48
Speaker
Not only do we appreciate the feedback in helping guide our growth as a show, but those ratings will expand the reach the podcast has. Those ratings and reviews really do make a difference to the algorithms, and we will see them. We'll be back in two weeks with a new episode, but in the meantime, enjoy the show.
Promotions and Listener Engagement
00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome to Plug In For More, brought to you by evuniverse.com. EV Universe is your one-stop shop for all things related to the electric vehicle. Here on this podcast, our goal is to educate, inspire, and hopefully make your transition into the electric vehicle marketplace a lot less intimidating. And now, here are your hosts, Mike, Tom, and Bryant.
00:01:32
Speaker
I got
Audi e-tron Test Drive Review
00:01:33
Speaker
us recording here, guys. Welcome. I'm happy we're back again. Likewise. Let's get into our new stuff and our updates of what we've done or found or learned since the last time we came to recording. Sounds great. I'll take it from here as far as what I was doing this past week. Just yesterday, I got into our local Audi dealership and set up an appointment to test drive. They had a certified used
00:01:59
Speaker
2021 Audi e-tron SUV. This particular model was the premium version. It had like 18,000 miles listed at 70,000 for a used vehicle. But as far as the vehicle goes, this particular car, I think it rode really well. It's very luxurious. It has heat and cooled seats. It's pretty quick, especially for a heavy vehicle. This particular car is 6,000 pounds, which as you both know, having
00:02:28
Speaker
It's almost exactly the same weight, which is incredible for a midsize SUV. Other than that, a couple of things I didn't like about it. The range is only 222 miles. It doesn't have much of a front trunk.
00:02:42
Speaker
It was big enough for new charging cables, and that was about it. Other than that, the storage was a little bit less than what you'd typically see in an SUV of the same size. So overall, great vehicle, quality built, but I think that range is really not ideal. If you're gonna have a secondary vehicle on the economic trips, great, great round town car, but for me, it's only gonna be that niche for someone who wants a true luxury vehicle over someone who wants a tech and the ability to have
00:03:12
Speaker
one carburetor EV. So size wise on that, what would you compare it to to a more common vehicle? Yeah, probably just slightly larger than the Audi Q5 or it's smaller than a Tahoe. Ford Explorer size? Yeah, I would say that the storage is a little bit less than that. Okay. But overall size is pretty comparable. Okay, cool. Really well built car. Really enjoyed it from that aspect. It wasn't quite as sporty as the Model Y and then the infotainment was not on par but
00:03:39
Speaker
I mean, it was a little bit older vehicle. Again, it had 18,000 miles, so it was a little bit of a used car, but still, it's only a year old. I think for them to compete with Tesla and other EV makers, currently, they're going to have to really increase that range. If they did get up to, let's say, 300 miles, it could be really compelling at that price point. Right now, being 70K,
00:04:04
Speaker
and you can get a Tesla with maybe almost 30% more range. Sure. That's significant. So anyways, that was my first impressions on that. What do you guys have for this week? I was
Impact of Felicity Ace Ship Disaster
00:04:14
Speaker
looking through the cargo manifest of the Felicity Ace, which if you remember that was that cargo ship a few months ago that caught fire and sank in the Atlantic Ocean.
00:04:23
Speaker
because I had my continued quest to get my Q4 e-tron. They're still optimistic that May, June time is real. So I was looking to see how many were lost at sea. First of all, if there's $30 million in Bentleys, nothing to do with electric vehicles, but $30 million in Bentleys were lost. I think it was 122 Porsches, so that's not a good day. From the electric vehicle side, that was absolutely kind of enthralled because it wasn't that bad. There was in the manifest,
00:04:50
Speaker
Five Volkswagen ID4s, so those are full electric. 34 Audi e-trons and nine e-tron sports backs, but no Q4 e-trons, so that's good news. Kind of stinks though, 34 e-trons, you know.
00:05:06
Speaker
But the biggest one was, like I said, those 124 Porsches. And there's some electric Porsches in there as well, some take hands as well. So I'm still optimistic, but they cannot tell me exactly when I'll still get the car. And multiple dealers are saying the same thing. So my update is I had a little bit of a wandering eye and
Kia EV6: Features and Cost Benefits
00:05:29
Speaker
I was looking at the Kia EV6.
00:05:32
Speaker
That is a very interesting car. I just started researching it. So maybe I'll talk a bit more in a future podcast, but the starting point, the entry point 40,000 pretty well equipped. I was very impressed with that. It does qualify as Mike just said, for the $7,500 rebate. So you're talking low thirties or pretty impressive car. The base model is 310 miles of range.
00:05:57
Speaker
Also has zero to 60 in the mid fives, or sorry, mid fours. So 4.6 seconds, zero to 60, that's faster than a Cayenne. And I was really impressed. So, and there's a faster version as well. There's a V6 GT, I think they call it, which is quicker. So I'm really interested in researching this car. It has a heads up display. It has all the cool features that you'd expect in an EV.
00:06:26
Speaker
And so I'm going to research that more and that might throw my name on the list and see the availability of getting an EV6. And that's pretty cool that in the Kia EV6 is going to be built on that same platform as the Hyundai IONIQ 5. It's the Hyundai Electric Global Modular Platform is what they're calling it. So they're looking at building.
00:06:47
Speaker
up to like 23 different Hyundai's off of this platform and expanding the different lines. I think Genesis has one. And then other variations of the Ionic and the EV4, EV6 will be another one that comes out too. So there's going to be a bunch of vehicles coming off that platform, which is kind of cool that it's such a robust hour plan really.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't realize that, Tom. Brian, you should get on that list now if you're thinking about it. Especially, do you know what the cost is to reserve a vehicle? No, but after this, I'm going to go on and to your point, reserve one or get in line. I've been seeing, I've joined some of the owner groups. I've seen them being delivered in the United States. I know they're available. That's what caught my eye. It's actually a kind of cool looking car. I don't know the size. It's kind of hard to see. It's a crossover. I'm assuming it's similar size to a Q4 e-tron.
00:07:37
Speaker
I'm going to get in the list, so we'll have an update in our next podcast about what that is. Yeah, I mean, for half the price, I think that deserves, well, at least over the one that I drove, the e-tron SUV, that was essentially half the price of what you're describing there. And to me, there's a lot of things you can do with $35,000, and that would be top of my list. I was looking for another one. Well, and I think it's a little bit of my hesitation has been growing up.
00:08:04
Speaker
You know, key is we're a little bit of the, you know, entry level, but my experience recently with some of the key is.
00:08:11
Speaker
The Telluride is a really nice car. Tikiya has taken its brand in quality light years ahead, so I just need to get over that mental hurdle of, hey, I'm ordering a Tikiya. I need to be fine with saying that, but the quality and the build has taken, I mean, the last few years, any Tikiya I've got as a rental car or ridden in with the friends, it's been really good. And I would have that exact same fear too, Brian. Can I be worried about the seats falling apart or something silly where maybe the fit and finish isn't going to be there like you're going to have on Audi, but
00:08:42
Speaker
Maybe that's completely unfair. Like a Kia Hyundai, I want nothing to do with them. Well, I think we saw them as kids in town falling apart. I mean, just being decimated by the winners and the salt. I mean, they were just nowhere near the quality of any other vehicle at that time. I think they've all come out and said that. I remember reading an article a few years ago about it and there were
00:09:11
Speaker
So there's so much work done to improve their quality, which is I think why they're where they're at now It was I mean it was bad You know, I don't think it's just us. I think they've been trying to overcome that for a while. Sure Well, and even Dodge Rams of the late 90s were notorious for being pals a junk to where you have one. We had a 98 I don't know if you guys remember that I took that to prom Yeah, I don't remember that Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's all black had Nerf bars on it was
00:09:41
Speaker
I thought it was the coolest truck ever, but when we sold it, I mean, the amount of rust on it and it only had like 15,000 miles. We had it for six years because it was my mom's truck and she never drove anywhere. And it was, the bottom of that thing was just decimated. It looked like a nice truck on the outside, but then you get underneath it and you're like, ooh, this is not good.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I guess things change. We should be accepting of that and not brand
EV Acceleration vs Traditional Sports Cars
00:10:11
Speaker
shame. I like getting the juices flowing from ordering a Q4 e-tron versus an EV6. It's not the same feel. Even though the EV6 actually in all aspects is better car for the price. Yeah. Well, as soon as you stand on the accelerator and you're gone in four and a half seconds to 60, I think you're going to be not regretting that decision.
00:10:32
Speaker
I think you're right. Especially when you're faster than my Mach-E, whenever that gets here too. Yeah. The Mach-E that I'm looking at is like 5.2 seconds on the zero to 60 for the base model. That's all quick.
00:10:45
Speaker
It's funny when we talk about this stuff, you look back on five, 10 years ago, you're talking about any car that's under five seconds. Like that's a legit sports car. I mean, even like, I think the Corvette C six was 4.5, 4.6. And they, I mean, it's a Corvette for crying out loud. And now you're like, Oh, it's not that fast. It's the mid range one. It's 4.2. Right. It's unreal.
00:11:13
Speaker
That's you need, or you can take the whole family in.
Investing in Home Solar Panels: Worth it?
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah. It's ridiculous. Yeah. The base model is for mid fours, you know, low fours. And that we were like, Oh, that's not that, you know, it's crazy. I've been digging into a different solutions for EV charging and being self sustainable. Uh, we talked about a couple of times prior on the podcast, but not going solar. And I had a company come out to give me a quote on, uh, solar panels for my roof.
00:11:41
Speaker
Basically, this company comes out, they take pictures, they look at your infrastructure setup, compare your energy bills to what expected production would be for it. The company that came out for me gave me a quote for 16 panels to put on my roof. The 16 panel system comes with a backup battery, the power inverter, everything you need to be a turnkey startup for having your house being solar powered.
00:12:08
Speaker
The panels they expected would produce 92% of my monthly energy needs based upon what they are right now. But the kicker is that the sticker price on it was $65,000. Well, as you guys both know, I have solar on my house. I do not have battery backup, but we put it
00:12:32
Speaker
on the house back in 2018 by 17, somewhere in that range. And our system is a 17 kilowatt hour system. And for us at the time, it was about the same as far as what it would cover about 90 some percent of our daily needs. But for the most part, it covers everything now for that system.
00:12:58
Speaker
The MSRP on it, the initial quoted price was 21,000 for that system. And then we had a local rebate, which took it down to approximately 15,000. So it was pretty significant. But the ROI on it, so the return on the investment was about seven and a half years, which were already
00:13:25
Speaker
you know, the number of years into that, we're probably halfway at this point. To me, it's been a no brainer when I look at the energy costs and how much it's brought things down. As much as I like the idea of being able to be completely off grid, the cost at this point in time, unless you've got money to throw away just doesn't to me, doesn't make sense for most people unless you're again, wanting to go off grid. Right. And
00:13:52
Speaker
My initial thought jumping into it was, yeah, I know it's going to be thousands of dollars. I know that I'll probably have to finance it. There'll be monthly payments. But if my monthly payments for my solar panels is offset by my savings in electricity, then I'm going to be at a net.
00:14:09
Speaker
gain for owning my electric production and then also not having to pay for electricity. I think that's pretty cool. But the pricing for the monthly payments would end up breaking down to being like two and a half times what my monthly electric bill is. And it just doesn't make sense. One, my neighbor just installed panels in his house. So I want to have a chat with him to find out what he was quoted because he obviously did the math and
00:14:32
Speaker
He's not, you know, he's gonna have money to throw away. He figured out there's, there's an ROI there. So I'm curious to chat with him, but two, I was always curious. So I have a heat pump in my house. I use a lot of electricity in the winter when, um, I won't go through all the heat pump stuff, but basically between, you know, 20 and 35 degrees, I don't use any propane. I use electric to heat my house. And I always wondering about, did they talk about it any, cause I use most of my electricity in the winter.
00:14:59
Speaker
What about, you know, where we live? It's cloudy in the winter. You don't get a ton of sunny days. Did they talk about anything around like winter? How much you get out of the solar panels when it's cloudy versus summer? I mean, obviously summer you're going to get every single day sunny here mostly, but winter, but I need most of it. It's kind of cloudy. Did they talk to you about that at all? A little bit. And they didn't delve too deep into the tech for it, but ultimately what they told me is that their panels that they source collect ultraviolet light.
00:15:27
Speaker
so that it's coming through the clouds and getting to the panels no matter what. I have to believe there's a difference between a cloudy day and a sunny day, but they made it sound like it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Let me jump in on my experience with that. The cloudiest, I think it does depend. I think you're going to see less. That's what we've noticed on the really cloudy days, really rainy days, you're going to see a significant decrease in what's going to come through.
00:15:53
Speaker
Maybe their panels, they have some magic to them or some new technology that I'm not aware of. Like everything else, there's an ideal temperature range for accepting electricity. When it's cold outside, you get more, even though your days are shorter in the winter because of the way it accepts more energy during the colder months.
00:16:18
Speaker
It doesn't even itself out, but it doesn't make it as terrible as what you think, if that makes sense. Sure. In terms, I've been very generic and I'm referring to this company because I do question their legitimacy and whatnot. So you refer to magic in panels and maybe there's magic there, maybe it's made up. I don't know. Maybe it's maybe it's a newer panel, but again, I haven't researched it a ton in the last few months, but maybe they're using some different technology that
00:16:48
Speaker
Again, I'm unaware. Okay. It's
Plug-in Hybrids vs Fully Electric Vehicles
00:16:51
Speaker
still on the horizon for me, but this isn't going to be the choice I go with. Yeah, it's good. You're listening to the plug in for more podcast. If you're looking for information on electric vehicles, electric vehicles components, or information on how to reduce your carbon footprint, look no further than evuniverse.com. evuniverse.com is your one stop shop for all things related to electric vehicle.
00:17:16
Speaker
Well, let's jump into the next segment of our podcast here, guys, about what we came here to talk about and the difference between a hybrid vehicle and then a straight up plug-in electric vehicle or all-electric vehicle. Mike has a lot of experience with all types of cars, including the hybrids and EVs and ICE vehicles. Mike, I was just hoping you could take a run for us on the differences and pros and cons. Absolutely.
00:17:42
Speaker
beginning with plug-in hybrids, just to give everyone my experience with them. And we've had a number of different vehicles, both on the EV side and on the plug-in hybrid side. So on the plug-in side of things, we've had a couple of different vehicles. The first one that we've had was the 2017 Pacifica Hybrid made in, and that one got approximately 30 miles of range. Second one we had was a BMW i8 Coupe,
00:18:10
Speaker
And that was a fun sports car. Uh, but then the third one we have isn't currently still own as a 2021 Jeep Wrangler four by E that.
00:18:22
Speaker
car is my wife's, and the reason she wanted that particular vehicle is because she had a Model X before, she wanted a convertible, she wanted something that still be electric, and she's always wanted a Jeep, but very quickly she has realized she wants the Magneto, which is the concept car for Jeep, which is a full EV. Okay. I was curious, so my friend just got the same car you got, and they've been driving mostly around town. They're mostly driving on battery.
00:18:52
Speaker
Can you talk a little bit about how much gas you're going through on that, on that vehicle, or are you going mostly on battery? The Jeep 4xE, that vehicle, right now we're seeing about 20 miles all electric, but you have to, when you get in the car, select electric from the dash.
00:19:12
Speaker
versus hybrid versus hold, which on hold it just holds the ice engine and saves that battery for a later, you know, off-road experience. If you want to go quietly through the woods or something like that, which the torque is great and it's a really quick vehicle when you step on it. But overall we're seeing, and this is around town, not doing a ton of long distance driving just for my wife to and from work, which is 25 miles on some days.
00:19:41
Speaker
12 on other days, a combined average of like 33 miles per gallon, which we plug in religiously on that thing. Overall, not great at all. It really isn't, which kind of leads me into my
00:19:58
Speaker
Overall thoughts on hybrids after owning three of them and driving tons and tons of miles and driving them across country with the minivan My thought process on them is they're kind of the worst of both worlds in a lot of ways with the plug-in hybrids because you have small battery
00:20:15
Speaker
normally with a smaller electric motor and a smaller gas engine. And when you combine those two, you have even more components than you normally would. You have to make sure that they work really well together and very seamlessly. Okay. And I think it comes down to, and I have a completely unscientific opinion about things that do multiple things, like all-in-one printer, fax, scanner, that kind of
Do Hybrids Offer the Best of Both Worlds?
00:20:39
Speaker
stuff. Like I want a printer to get a printer. If you want a fax, get a fax, whatever. Jack, wall trades, master.
00:20:44
Speaker
Right. So you have a complication of systems between the traditional ice and then trying to be electric and you're not really doing either one well. And that's kind of what I'm hearing from you. That's exactly what I'm saying. Exactly what I'm saying. It doesn't mesh well. And again, you're getting the worst of both worlds. You really are. A lot of people buy them for longer road trips because they think they can get good mileage around town and then go on a road trip. You don't have to stop to charge up for a long time.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yeah, the number of times that actually worked in that manner was just a handful of times. Frankly, once you get used to the calmness of the EV mode, when it runs on gas for, let's say you run off on a road trip, it gets to be really annoying very quickly because it sounds really, really rough with those smaller engine, most plug-in hybrids.
00:21:30
Speaker
The other thing, I, this is just a prediction in the long-term hybrids are not going to be wrong for that long. That's what I'm guessing because EVs have so many more benefits and you're already putting a battery into something. You already have to charge it up. You might as well just go all the way and do it the quote unquote right way. So Mike, it's interesting cause my Dodge Rams have a V6 with the e-torque and the e-torque is even smaller. It's like the tiniest battery ever. I don't even fully understand how it works cause it's not.
00:22:00
Speaker
It's not a big deal, but the idea behind the e-torque, though, is it's a small electric motor that's supposed to start the vehicle off with a dead stop and help with gas mileage into your point.
00:22:10
Speaker
When that engages, it is super clunky. There's like this lull on my car when it's, and it doesn't engage all the time. I don't know when it decides to engage and when it doesn't, I really don't. But it's weird because it's like, at first I was like, is this transmission like going out on this truck? It's truck's brand new. What the heck? But it's this E torque transition between this tiny little battery.
00:22:31
Speaker
pushing the car forward off a dead stop to start the car and help the gas mileage and then transition over to the engine. I totally get what you mean. It's kind of clunky. That transition between the battery to gas modes, I would just rather stick with gas or stick with all EV, just one or the other, because once you get used to one and it flips over and it
00:22:53
Speaker
It just sounds like almost with the car breaking every time it does it. Cars lurch a little bit. Again, that integration is just not well done in any vehicle I've driven. I've driven probably 15 different plug-in hybrids. I own three of them. I don't want to do it again. Even my wife is, like we said before, is dead set on that Magneto. She loves the Jeep.
00:23:16
Speaker
but she wants a full EV and she's like the moment that you can order one of those, please do so, which is rare to heal for my wife. Better to make sure it gets done then. Right. I'll be on top of it. One conversation that I seem to have with people and we're talking EVs is that a lot of people are scared of range and they have the range anxiety and they think that they're going to bridge the gap between a nice vehicle and an EV by going the hybrid route.
Are Hybrids a Solution for Range Anxiety?
00:23:41
Speaker
And that's something that at least in their head makes sense to them.
00:23:44
Speaker
And I think on the surface it makes sense, but once you start diving into the mechanics of what's actually happening inside of this vehicle, it doesn't. And I hope people will see that and realize that it's either an all in or all out kind of proposition if you want something consistent, reliable, and quality. Exactly. And that mentality that you speak of is exactly what I went through. I thought it was the best of both worlds. I can get a great gas mileage around town. You don't have to worry about charging on long trips.
00:24:15
Speaker
But in practice, if you don't go all in on one or the other, it doesn't work well and the user experience isn't great. And again, that's one of the reasons I think the plug-in hybrids will not be around for that long. I think people will notice as soon as they get into it, they're going to want to get out of that plug-in hybrid.
00:24:37
Speaker
once they experience the full EV experience. It's just, it's night and day and it's more cost effective really when you look at it to go all EV anyways. You're going to have less risk breaking. Just learn from my mistakes. Don't buy a
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:24:51
Speaker
plug-in hybrid. Go full EV. Call it a day. Enjoy your ride. I appreciate you guys being here today for the podcast. It was fun talking to you. Same here. Yeah, thanks everybody. Thanks Tom. Thanks Brian. Appreciate that. All right, you guys have a good rest of your day.
00:25:03
Speaker
Thank you for listening to plug in for more. Make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. In the meantime, check out the one-stop EV Marketplace, evuniverse.com. Until next time.