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S3:E15 Part 1: The Subtle Knife & His Dark Materials
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Worlds are colliding, and we’re slicing into The Subtle Knife! This week’s episode kicks off the first half of our deep dive into Philip Pullman’s The Subtle Knife and Season 2, Episodes 1–3 of His Dark Materials. We explore how the story expands beyond The Golden Compass, introducing new worlds, new faces, and the mysterious weapon that gives this book its name. From Lyra’s growing independence to Will’s quiet strength, we break down how the series balances faith, science, and fate—and how those first three episodes bring the multiverse to life.
Hosted by Crystal with co-hosts Keri and Lindsey.
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Thanks for listening to Based on a Book—see you in the next chapter!
Chapters:
(00:00) Introductions
(00:47) The Golden Compass Recap
(04:08) Ratings and Non-Spoiler Discussion
(09:22) Book vs Series Breakdown — Episode 1 (SPOILERS)
(24:13) Episode 2
(36:10) Episode 3
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Setup
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome back to Based on a Book, the podcast that no one has ever called subtle. I'm your host, Crystal, and I hate how much I identify with villains. I'm Carrie, and I was not cleared for multiverse travel.
00:00:23
Speaker
And I'm Lindsay, and I would totally follow a cat through a portal into another world.
'His Dark Materials' Series Overview
00:00:29
Speaker
This week we are continuing in the His Dark Materials series with book two, The Subtle Knife, and season two of the BBC HBO show.
00:00:39
Speaker
This is going to be a two-part discussion. You are currently in part one. Last season we covered the Golden Compass in season one of His Dark Materials.
00:00:49
Speaker
You should go listen to those episodes if you haven't. They're good. I'm a little biased. I think all our stuff is good. But I mean it. Check it out. At the very least, if you have not read that book or watched that season, you should stop here before I ruin it for you because I'm about to recap.
00:01:08
Speaker
Okay. Deep breath. There's a lot. Yeah, definitely a lot.
Recap of 'The Golden Compass'
00:01:13
Speaker
In the Golden Compass, we meet Lyra, a young girl in a parallel world run by the Magisterium, where souls live outside the body as animal companions called demons.
00:01:25
Speaker
Lyra stumbles upon a plot to kill her uncle, Lord Asriel, and from there, misadventures uncover dark forces at work. In an attempt to offer some form of protection, she is given the alethiometer, a truth teller from a scholar at Jordan College, but must keep it a secret and discover on her own how to use it.
00:01:46
Speaker
In her world, children have been disappearing and she embarks on a quest to save her friend Roger, who has been kidnapped. A female scholar, Mrs. Coulter, offers to help, but Lyra quickly learns Mrs. Coulter cannot be trusted.
00:01:59
Speaker
She sets off on her own, unwittingly gathering allies, endearing people to her cause, wherever she may be. Lyra discovers study by Mrs. Coulter is underway, backed by the Magisterium, and has been severing the demons from children to determine the origins of dust, something that only settles on adults.
00:02:17
Speaker
She rescues Roger, learns that Mrs. Coulter and Lord Asriel are actually her parents, and sets off to find Asriel and give him the alethiometer. Upon finding Lord Asriel, he kidnaps Roger, sets off in the night, severing Roger from his demon, killing him instantly, and uses the energy to released to break open a rift to other worlds, Lyra then walks through the rift.
00:02:41
Speaker
I think that was it. I mean, there's a lot. There's a lot. That is the CliffsNotes, CliffsNotes, CliffsNotes version. I mean, that is broken down big time. That was hard to really sum up.
00:02:54
Speaker
Anyways, were there any parts of book one or season one still on your minds when we, as we go into this next book?
Discussion on Demons and Ratings
00:03:05
Speaker
Lindsay?
00:03:07
Speaker
I'm still thinking about the demons just in general and your demons. York. King York. Yeah. That's my bear. I know. I know. Carrie, was there anything that kind of stuck out to you and you've still been thinking on?
00:03:20
Speaker
I was going to say the same thing. Just like the demons. That was something, honestly, going into this second season of the show specifically, because I had noticed in the first season how Sometimes I wouldn't see a lot of demons with their person. And I wanted to see that stick out a little more or maybe more reason why we couldn't see ah demon with their person.
00:03:52
Speaker
So i that was something that was very stuck in my mind from the first season of the show specifically. I was definitely looking for them in season two.
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah. And I was like, I want to see if it gets better as like we move forward in the show or at least like more explanation if we're not seeing them as much. So.
00:04:14
Speaker
i I think for me, the show introduces um or introduced a little bit more of the Mrs. Coulter character. And I am definitely interested in more of her story and her perspective. So I was glad to see we do get that in season two because that was something that was really on my mind.
00:04:33
Speaker
But with that in mind, how do we rate the book? I want to start with Carrie. no. Okay.
00:04:43
Speaker
okay I listened to the audio book again. i listened to the first book in the series on audio. And if we remember last time,
Personal Experiences and Comparisons
00:04:53
Speaker
you know, I really did kind of struggle with it.
00:04:58
Speaker
I wasn't struggling so much with the story this time because, you know, I'm, you know, invested in the world. I'm understanding how this world works. We broke it down in three parts.
00:05:11
Speaker
So, like, we know what's going on. Mm-hmm. But I gave this two and a half specters because i I don't know why. I just really like that name. I like specters. But really, I started this like two and a half weeks ago.
00:05:29
Speaker
And I just finished it recently because I really struggled with the pacing of this. Yeah. And i It dragged bad.
00:05:41
Speaker
This book, there is a lot happening, but it just was not very, for my personal taste, not super exciting.
00:05:51
Speaker
it First half, not very exciting. Second half gets a little bit better. Hence my like two and a half. But it just like I really struggled to finish this book. I was struggling big time.
00:06:08
Speaker
feel ever What did you think, Lindsay? I have to agree. The pacing was difficult and I really struggled through the first half of the book.
00:06:19
Speaker
It did pick up about the middle and then again somewhere between like the 88% and the
00:06:27
Speaker
i I did get more invested. I was in the story. yeah um And then there was just so much going on and we're going between so many different worlds and I can't remember the names of the world and I'm having to remind myself where are we?
00:06:42
Speaker
Yeah. So with that in mind, I gave this one two missing fingers. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. ah Well, I also listened to the audiobook, which this audiobook is narrated by Philip Pullman with a full cast. you guys are interested in checking it out, you can visit the affiliate link in our show notes to Libro FM, our favorite place to get audiobooks that also supports local bookstores. The audio for this series is possibly some of the best audiobook material I've ever listened to. It's amazing. 100%. Yeah, I agree.
00:07:22
Speaker
I give this book for Spectres. Okay, first of all, we all know i'm I'm all about world travel, time travel, timeline, all that jazz. I would love that crap. So this is right up my alley.
00:07:36
Speaker
Second of all, like we got like demons and witches and magic, so I'm already just in it. But I feel like...
00:07:48
Speaker
After having read the first book, like I agree, there was so much going on in that one. It was a little bit hard to keep up sometimes or keep track of where you were, who we were with, or which characters were who, because we had a couple of different Tonys.
00:08:02
Speaker
there Tonys? I can't remember. but That first book had like the three characters with the same name. Right. But I think because I already kind of knew the vast majority of the characters, I understood the world a little bit better.
00:08:17
Speaker
i had a little bit easier job keeping track of who was who and where we were and what was going on.
00:08:25
Speaker
And I feel like this was a, like where book one you know, they had to explain the world. They had explain the magic. They had explain, or whatever was going on. They had explain the dust. we I already knew all that. So there wasn't a ton of explaining anymore. um And the little bit that there was, I think was introduced in a really nice way. The couple of new characters we get were introduced in a really good way for me.
00:08:48
Speaker
um So for me, i really enjoyed this. I'm not going to deny
Spoiler Alert and Season Two Insights
00:08:51
Speaker
that there's still a lot going on and it was still a little twisty, but. it hits the the science-y part and the fantasy parts that I really, really love. So for me, it was it was a four. And Spectres, I agree, that they're just cool.
00:09:05
Speaker
Yeah. Weird. While I was reading it, i the whole time I was singing, i'm like, yeah, this is totally up Christmas Alley. The entire time. That's fair. That's fair. Totally. Speaking of characters and keeping track of characters, season one of the show did introduce Will Perry. That was not present in the first book, but he is who opens the second book.
00:09:28
Speaker
So I think this is a good time to go ahead and drop the spoiler alert for book two, season two If you haven't read The Subtle Knife or watched season two of His Dark Materials, you might want to stop here and go do that before coming back.
00:09:43
Speaker
Because we are about to discuss the first half of the book and the first three episodes of the season. Because we already know in the show who Will Perry is, we start out on episode one in Chittagatze.
00:09:57
Speaker
In the book, though, we're still learning about who Will is. We're just now introduced to Will. Yeah, I like that they did that. I like that they, you know, trickled that into the first season because it doesn't feel so abrupt when we're starting the second season. I was like, okay, that makes total sense.
00:10:18
Speaker
And that makes this transition feel a lot more comfortable because guess what? We're about to go into the second season in the second book All those people we were with in that first season, first book.
00:10:31
Speaker
Gone. yeah Gone. Most of them. We don't ever see these people again. Right? I was actually shocked by that. There's no York in the book. No. No Gyptians. No. The Gyptians aren't even in the in the show this season. they're They're not in the book. They're not in the show. We're done with them. Yeah. know A lot of characters are not here anymore.
00:10:54
Speaker
And... We are in completely different worlds. Worlds, different, you know, situations going on. But the way that they're transitioning it in the show, I think, is really well done.
00:11:12
Speaker
Because I do feel like the Subtle Knife, the book, because we open with Will in Will's world, it almost that feels abrupt because we just left this amazing, you know, other Oxford, other world with demons and dust and the Magisterium and airships and talking bears and witches.
00:11:32
Speaker
and now we're in our own, like what feels like probably our own world. It's a very quick, abrupt um thing. And you know for the most part, we had no reason to expect that. Yeah, you're like, who is you?
00:11:44
Speaker
Right, exactly.
Exploration of Themes and Visuals
00:11:46
Speaker
Whereas in the show, we kind of get that trickled in at the last half of the season. So I really like that. And the show opens in Chittagatze.
00:11:57
Speaker
like What did you guys think of how that looked? Just the visual How did that, did you feel like that was kind of what you expected? yeah I think my, see, I, you know, the book, you know I give like kind of a low rating to the book.
00:12:15
Speaker
I have a complete opposite feeling about the show. I have a completely opposite feeling about the show. The show is more my cup of tea. Like, I like the elements that the book is giving me.
00:12:32
Speaker
Like, I like the storyline. I just, for my personal taste, I like a lot of, like, more character-driven elements in a story it you know what this kind of reminds me of i'm kind of going off topic just tiny bit but this is reminding me of and this might be a little bit of a hot take but when i read the first book in wheel of time and then i saw the first season of the adaptation of wheel of time
00:13:06
Speaker
And then I noticed a lot of people that had watched the show and was like, oh, I should go read the book so I could like see these relationships more developed in these characters, like more about these characters. like I wanna see like this person with this person and you know and more of you know the background of these characters. I'm like, you're not gonna find that in the book.
00:13:28
Speaker
The book is like more surface level, of if you're looking for deeper character relationships, the book isn't going to give you that.
00:13:40
Speaker
It's giving you more adventure. Right. And the show is actually giving you more emotional depth of these characters.
00:13:50
Speaker
Yeah. And that's how I feel about this book versus the TV show of His Dark Materials. No, absolutely. This... book is surface level and this show is a deep dive.
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah. And i I, would say it's a deep dive of the characters. I don't know if it's a deep dive of necessarily the, the magic or and right the world, but I would say of the characters, the show gives more of a deep dive.
00:14:26
Speaker
I think, do you guys remember in last season when we covered the Golden Compass, the movie, and we talked about how like the movie eliminated so much of the religious undertones of the storyline that even Philip Pullman was like, it took out the soul of Yeah. sorry I feel like they went in the opposite direction with the series and there is so much, you know, religious and government commentary the,
00:15:02
Speaker
this series it's you you just you can't the the religious overtones and undertones and just tones it's so in your face and because we so we start seeing inside the magisterium we we did not see that in the movie for we definitely didn't see in movie and we don't see it in the book we're starting to see the back side of what's going on inside the magisterium we're seeing what's going on With Mrs. Coulter, we're seeing what's going on, you know, with a lot of these characters and side storylines that we barely get mentioned in the book.
00:15:42
Speaker
Mm And really love that. Like you just said, i feel like this show adds more soul to the story. And like we just said before, in the very first world that we're seeing, this new world, there...
00:16:01
Speaker
is almost like an extra element to it where it just like feels more emotional yeah when you're first seeing it and they're first encountering it and your Lyra and Will are meeting each other for the first time.
00:16:17
Speaker
There is more like emotional like investment going on here versus the book, in my opinion. Right. So I feel like a good chunk, the first couple of chapters of the book, are...
00:16:31
Speaker
setting us up with Will Perry, how, you know, who he is his relationship with his mother, who is mentally unwell, not necessarily attached to reality suffering, some mental health issues.
Character Dynamics and Key Plot Developments
00:16:45
Speaker
And because we already got that in season one, we don't get that in season two. And we start right off the bat, episode one in Chitagatze and Lyra and Will meet.
00:17:00
Speaker
So Lindsay, what did you think of that moment when Pan, Lyra's demon, like says hello to Will? i was really excited. i I like when stories collide like that. I like the intertwining things.
00:17:19
Speaker
I was also confused about Pan speaking to Will because I didn't think that that happened. Well, and i don't. I mean, I feel like demons aren't supposed to talk to other people. Right.
00:17:36
Speaker
right off the bat for him to do that was just like a shocker to me. Mm-hmm. But even Lyra didn't seem shocked. Did you know? Like, she just seemed kind of like, shut up, pan. You know, annoyed.
00:17:52
Speaker
more than anything, until she realized that Will didn't have a demon. Because I think that the only other demon that he spoke to was Roger's demon. Right. Demons can speak to each other, yeah demons can't speak to other people.
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. And so that was really and odd one. I feel like in the book, I think this was handled... Lyra was a little bit more innocent still at that point because she was willing to buddy up with Will right away.
00:18:23
Speaker
Whereas in the show, she is very mistrustful. She's, you know, she's like, I don't see your demon. I'm out. Yeah. And that seemed a little weird to me because we know that she is a little bit more accepting of people who don't have demons. We we already knew that part.
00:18:42
Speaker
I don't know. I kind of liked... I like that Pan is, we see Pan pushing her. Hey, dude, you're going to have to try. Hey, like maybe we have to think outside the box here.
00:18:54
Speaker
the but We also in the first episode see the witches deciding their course of action. um I feel like in the book, even though we see, of course, Serafina Pecola is back, the queen of whatever group of witches.
00:19:09
Speaker
And we are introduced to Ruta Scotti, who is another witch queen from the Southern witches, I think. isn it In the book, I feel like this is very, although they have two different ideas about how to go about their goal.
00:19:26
Speaker
They're kind of respectful of like, okay, you do this and I'll do this and then we'll meet up when we can and see how that works out. In the show, it's almost like there's conflict that Serafina Pecola doesn't like what Ruta Scotti is going to do. Ruta Scotti thinks that Serafina is, you know...
00:19:46
Speaker
Wanting to go after Lyra and protect Lyra um is just like a side quest and like, no, we need to be helping Lord Asriel. Let's go. you know, they're also very aware that Lyra is a part of something.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yes. They are aware that she is a part of some type of prophecy. The witches are a part of this. hmm. And I like that we have a lot more witches.
00:20:14
Speaker
i do too. I remember us in the, when we were covering the first season, the first book, we're like, I hope we get more witches. I hope we get more. Well, we got more witches. We got more witches. We got a lot more witches for sure.
00:20:28
Speaker
So the witches do decide at some point that, um, Sarah, Fina, Pecla is going to, they're going to go find and protect Lyra um because she is part of this prophecy.
00:20:40
Speaker
Uh, Ruta Scotti basically is like, I'm going to go save this other witch that I know is trapped.
00:20:46
Speaker
We find out Lee Scoresby is with the witches. He decides he's going to ah go find Stanislaus Grumman because he has heard that Stanislaus Grumman has a weapon that or some sort of device that can protect anyone.
00:21:01
Speaker
And he wants to find that device so that he can help protect Lyra. So he's out hunting for Stanislaus Grumman. Mrs. Coulter's got a witch and she is interrogating her on an airship.
00:21:16
Speaker
And Ruta Scotti in the show shows up in the book. It's Serafina Pecola who shows up and saves her. But this witch is being interrogated. This part made me cry. Like, I did not expect this part to actually make me cry.
00:21:27
Speaker
But it made me really emotional because it was like she's being tortured information out of her. And, like, the witch comes to let her...
00:21:39
Speaker
be free and basically to kill her. so she doesn't have to be tortured anymore. And she's like, you can be free now. And i actually got super emotional at that part. i think this is another one of those moments where we are introduced to a different idea of death of rather than death being this scary thing, death being this, you know peaceful, beautiful release thing. Cause they waited until this, which called out for,
00:22:08
Speaker
I can't remember the name of their death god or death goddess um to come. Yadakembe. I think it's Kembe. I could be wrong. But asking for her to come. And that's when Serafina in the book, that's when Ruta Scotti in the show release her from this life i have chills thinking about in the show seeing her like dive her and her demon like diving through the clouds to get to her and materializing right in front of her and like time slowing down for that second yeah it was i think that beautifully done yeah just and then just like
00:22:50
Speaker
in the In the book and in the movie, what really caused me to tear up was not the witch dying, but her demon. yeah Every time. Every time.
00:23:01
Speaker
Every single time. Anything that happens to the demons. Anything. I'm done. Yeah. And it's because it's like the way that it's done in the show, and they kept it this way, like how they do in the first season, is the demon like fading into dust h whenever they die. And it just...
00:23:21
Speaker
It hurts me. It hurts me bad. And I mean, but the their demon is their soul. The yeah death of someone's soul. Like this isn't just a, it's meant to be dramatic. It is meant to affect you. And it sure as hell does.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah. Also as in the show, but not in the book. Again, we get to see more of the magisterium in the show. cardinal stirak or starock whatever the cardinal is on the airship and the witch stabs him on her way out ruta scotting stabs him on her way out that was so cool see ya it was so cool she like waited and he comes around the corner she's like bam just right in the chest it was perfect anytime you see the witches like moving they're
00:24:07
Speaker
Vanishing and reappearing. I thought that was so cool. It's yeah it's so neat. Like if I was. I want to be that kind of witch. That kind of witch. You know.
00:24:19
Speaker
But that kind of wraps up. What's going on in episode one. Episode two is called the cave.
00:24:26
Speaker
Lyra and Will go into Will's world, which is basically our world. But honestly, I don't want to assume there's a lot, you know, it could be a different world. It's Will's world. It definitely feels like it's our world. Right.
00:24:39
Speaker
hu um But, and they don't have, and this is like the part I, I'm actually really enjoying this part where it's this dynamic of where, you know, Lyra's world has demons.
00:24:54
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And then she's navigating into Will's world and Will is like, what the heck is a demon? And you're going into this other world that does not have people with demons unless you're traveling into this world, Rob Lyra's world.
00:25:10
Speaker
So she's having to hide her demon. Mm-hmm. In this world. And she's like thinking it's very bizarre that these people don't have demons. And it's like an interesting thing to navigate.
00:25:23
Speaker
And yet somehow. And in the in the show. Right. And yet somehow she gets into Will's world, which has an Oxford just like her world. And so the minute she gets there, she starts to recognize some things because some things are the same.
00:25:38
Speaker
And she runs and she takes off because she she knows exactly what scholar she needs to find to help her figure out what's going on with dust. Only to discover that there is no Jordan College in this Oxford.
00:25:51
Speaker
So Will and Lyra separate. Will's going to go handle a few things that he needs to handle. Lyra ducks off into some random museum to read the alethiometer.
00:26:03
Speaker
She's spotted. Somebody sees her, introduces himself as Charles Landrum, asks her are you interested in, you know, the skulls that they're looking at or whatever. And she being Lyra kind of fakes her way through the conversation and and dips.
00:26:17
Speaker
Um, But this guy is she's she's saying to herself, I think I, you know, so there's something weird about him. I can't quite place it. Now in the show, we all know that's Lord Boreal. Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah. You know, we like, girl, run. This is not a good person. That was one thing I did like about the book is that we have no idea who this man is. He's just some older man who's talking to Lyra in the museum and he helps her. and yeah, it was very surprising when it was revealed. Right.
00:26:52
Speaker
She, I've lost my thoughts. Oh, there it is. Okay. So we see that or Like Lyra figures out who she needs to go see because she used the alethiometer and she finds her way to Dr. Mary Malone, who has a picture of a mountain on the door because the alethiometer told her to go to the door with them.
00:27:15
Speaker
Mount on it. And to tell her complete truth. Tell her the truth. And so she just right up walks in there and she's like, my name's Lyra. I'm from another world. Do you study dust? Can you help me? Yeah, like, tell me about dust. Yeah.
00:27:26
Speaker
What do you know about dust? She's very, now in the in the book, she's very just like drops all this, like yeah word vomits. In the show, she's a little bit more subdued of like, I don't know how to explain myself.
00:27:38
Speaker
This is going to be crazy, but I got to get this out. Something that I noticed between the book and the show is to me, when I'm reading the book, Lyra feels much more like juvenile. Yes. Like she feels so much younger in the book.
00:27:57
Speaker
Yeah. In the show, she i'm not going to say she feels a lot older, but she definitely feels a little more mature. We get a lot more emotional depth yeah of her in the show, which I think is not Good, honestly, because the idea is is that she is still a child.
00:28:18
Speaker
She is still innocent. Her demon has not settled. Dust will not collect on her. And because, you know, she is Daphne Keene, the actress, um they really wanted to record this these seasons quickly because they they know she's going to grow. And the idea is that she's still a child in the story. Mm-hmm.
00:28:43
Speaker
but she So she still looks young, but because they gave her character so much more emotional depth, it's almost like She's acting older. the And so I don't think this was at any indication of her ability as an actress. I think it was very much written in a way that this character acts more emotionally with with a little bit more depth and consideration. Whereas in the book, we still have this childlike innocence of not really caring about everybody else, this one track mind of needing to do what she wants to do.
00:29:16
Speaker
you know Even being careless in you know showing Will that like lying's easy. Check this out. and play you know being very childlike. Don't see that in the show.
00:29:29
Speaker
And that would be my like one big criticism of the show is is is that. um Yeah. i I agree, too. I think also i think about the fact that like it's almost...
00:29:44
Speaker
when i I go back and forth about it because when I'm reading the book and im she's having to like go do all these adult-like things. Right. ah But the way that she's acting, I can imagine it makes more sense to me in the TV series that she is capable of doing all these adult things for like being more
Confrontations and New Characters
00:30:08
Speaker
mature. Right.
00:30:09
Speaker
Right. But like, I get what you're saying that like, for the purpose of the story and the fact that she should probably be younger considering. Right. Everything else going on.
00:30:20
Speaker
But Lyra does meet Dr. Malone. They use the cave, which is um Dr. Malone's big computer that she is using to help to attempt to communicate with dark matter particles, which we discover is dust. Right.
00:30:37
Speaker
At this point, in back in the original world, Lyra's world, the witches have sent an envoy to the magisterium, to a peace envoy, to basically say, hey, Ruta Scotti acted on her own. That was a lone witch. That it was not us.
00:30:55
Speaker
They basically are like, no, we don't believe you. You're all heretics. And they imprison him. And then Mrs. Coulter uses that moment to convince Lyra um Father MacPhail to attack the witches and they blow up and drop bombs all over the witch territory in their Lake Holm territory.
00:31:16
Speaker
Will, on the other hand, in his little errands, was attempting to try to get some more funds by discovering the um trustees or the administrators of the trust that has been making payments to his mom's account.
00:31:33
Speaker
and He meets with them, discovers he has grandparents. This is, I don't remember this in the book. Did I don't remember? No. Now he does attempt to go to like some bankers or something to figure out like, Hey, where can I just get some money out of this account? And they were basically like, no.
00:31:50
Speaker
In the show, he goes to these, the, the, know the lawyer that administers his trust, you know, she's like, I can't give you this money without an adult. Yeah. you know, the way your grandparents have this set up. And he was like, wait, my grandparents. um And so he goes to visit them and meet them for the first time, only to find out that, you know, the bad guys, Lord Boreal's goon squad has already been in contact with them.
00:32:14
Speaker
hu um And so he's running back. Lyra realizes, oh crap, I've spent way too much time in this cave with this crazy lady. i gotta go. it and they run back and meet back in Chittagotse, right?
00:32:30
Speaker
Did you notice that Mary Malone's script was written in Python? No. Oh, really? Yeah. It's interesting because because she's the serpent, but that's that's in another episode. Hold on.
00:32:42
Speaker
We're almost there. I like that connection. will say I really like the actor who plays Will, Mir Wilson. think that's how you say his name. But I think he does such a great job as well. Absolutely. i think the friendship between Will and ah Lyra that develops is so good and just really well played out on screen.
00:33:09
Speaker
hmm. I just really like them both. And I think he brings Will's character to life very, very well. I really, really like it. Absolutely. So we were introduced to a couple of new characters, or at least deeper into some characters here.
00:33:27
Speaker
um of course, we get um Father MacPhail, who is desperately trying to position to replace um the colonel that just died. um And also Father Graves, who we don't get to talk to as much, but we hear about him being like McPhail's biggest competition for the position of Cardinal.
00:33:50
Speaker
And of course we get Dr. Mary Malone in there um and we get Angelica and Paola, the two kids in Chittagotse that, that Will and Lyra have run into.
00:34:05
Speaker
they, at first seem to be very standoffish, a little confused right away. They're like, you're not from here.
00:34:16
Speaker
It's, it's a it's an odd, like, we're not going to be your friend, but we're not your enemies either situation. Right up until in the book, this is the part where Will and Lyra come back and they hear the screeching of a cat and these kids are attacking this cat.
00:34:35
Speaker
And Will like is about to just like, he's about to go off on these kids and he rescues his cat and Pan turns into a Wolverine tiger. what I don't like, it was a different creature in the show and in the book, either way, Pan's like, we're on all these kids are like, what the hell is this creature?
00:34:58
Speaker
And they split, but you know, now they've got this random cat, this tabby cat. Which doesn't play as big of a role in the show. And honestly, I'm kind of sad about it. Of all the roles they expanded in this show.
00:35:13
Speaker
yeah We hardly see anything about the cat. And the cat was the whole reason Will got into the world in the first place. Right? Right? So I think that's part of what Will felt a little protective of the cat. Because the cats who led him to what he considers to be a safe place.
00:35:30
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But Angelica and Paola are also the ones who explain to Will and Lyra that there are specters in this world. um And that's why there's no grownups. That the specters will attack grownups, but kids they don't attack kids. Kids can't even see them.
00:35:46
Speaker
And we start to learn a little bit that these specters basically... eat dust and and as far as we can kind of tell or the or the interpretation that i'm taking is they they kill your demon um so ah angelica mentions to will that like hey you're getting close to that age yeah you're getting you're getting close to being a little dusty dusty crusty musty yeah you're getting a little dusty
00:36:21
Speaker
So in episode three, this is called Theft. ah We see a mysterious hooded shadowed figure whispering and summoning Lee Scoresby to him. Ooh.
00:36:37
Speaker
Ooh. Wonder who could it be? <unk> Right? Okay. Lyra returns for a second time to Dr. Malone, but is nearly caught. They Lord Boreal's goons have already figured out that she stopped by to see Dr. Mary Malone.
00:36:53
Speaker
um And so Dr. Malone tries to warn Lyra, like get, but the too late, the goons are already there. um And they catch her saying, admitting that she has been. Well, whenever she says it in the show and her face, like,
00:37:10
Speaker
completely drops when she brings up his name. oh good It was so good. was done so well. yeah Lee Scoresby on his way to find Dennis Loss Grumman gets caught in the book.
00:37:27
Speaker
He stops at like six different places. He's really hunting this guy down. He's stopping at taverns. He's stopping at, you know, different ports and places asking questions and basically tells everybody he owes me money.
00:37:41
Speaker
Like, you know, and everybody kind of like, oh, well, okay, yeah, that makes sense. You know, we hear he's up that way or I heard this about him or whatever. And even finds out that he goes by different names. We thought Grumman was dead, right?
00:37:53
Speaker
He was supposedly the head that Asriel had in season one. Right. So everybody's, in and a lot of people are saying, oh no, that guy's dead. I heard he died or hurt whatever. and But a few people are like, nah,
00:38:08
Speaker
Wait, so why why he trying to find him in the first place? Because he's heard a rumor that Stanislaus Grumman has a weapon that can protect anyone. So basically he thinks Grumman has this subtle knife. He doesn't know that it's called the subtle knife, but that's what he thinks.
00:38:27
Speaker
Turns out Grumman just knows about the subtle knife. Yeah. um But again, you know, Lee doesn't know that yet. Well, also, he wrote know he doesn't know he's being summoned either. Right. Grumman is summoning him. Right.
00:38:41
Speaker
In the show, Lee gets caught. um Kind of right away, he asks somebody about Grumman and they're like, you're a heretic. And, you know, like, or because he's like some magisterium dude. And like he goes, they have a little shootout, whatever.
00:38:58
Speaker
Lee kills him. Didn't mean to, he didn't shoot to kill. He was just shooting to save his own self. And well, it worked a little too good.
00:39:08
Speaker
And this is so different in the show than in the book. We get this completely added storyline that I don't, I still know how I feel about it. Of Mrs. Coulter being in the same town where Lee Scoresby is being held and making a point to go interrogate him.
00:39:28
Speaker
And we learn a little bit more backstory on Lee and how he was raised in an abusive family. Mm-hmm. And he basically, Lee Scoresby is like, you won't, believe you know, Mrs. Coulter tries to torture him for information about where Lyra is.
00:39:45
Speaker
And he's basically, you can't, pain won't break me. Pain will never break me. And you know it won't break me because you're the same as I am. And like implies that she's also was raised by an abusive family.
00:39:57
Speaker
We get no indication of that in the book. this This scene is not in the book. Can i kind I say something about this scene? Yes, please. i love this scene.
00:40:11
Speaker
I love, love, love this scene. Because i love hating Mrs. Coulter. yeah i think Mrs. Coulter is one of my favorite villains that I've ever read about, that I've ever watched.
00:40:28
Speaker
I love Mrs. Coulter. Maybe it's because it's played by Ruth Wills. I don't know. Mrs. Coulter is cultureter is the Like coolest villain I've ever seen. And yeah, she's evil. Like she's not a good person.
00:40:45
Speaker
She's completely unhinged. And she is completely unhinged. But adding this scene. Like I could not, I could not take my eyes away from this scene. see And it was just like,
00:41:00
Speaker
crazy and the way it was totally unexpected. And I am desperate in this book for something about Mrs. Coulter and what the heck is going on with Mrs. Coulter.
00:41:18
Speaker
So i am like grasping at anything. So the fact that they added this into the TV series, I loved it. Because I need, I'm desperate for it. I need something because she is, I think she's more than a villain. Like she's very complex.
00:41:34
Speaker
Like there's like the magisterium, like the magisterium, that's the villain. We don't need to know any backstory about that villain. Like fuck that villain. Okay. But Mrs. Coulter, that's a different kind of villain. That's a very complex, weird villain.
00:41:49
Speaker
You know what I'm trying to say? Yeah. Like, There is so much weird stuff where it's like, there's a scene where, like, you hate her. Like, screw that lady.
00:42:01
Speaker
And then there's a scene that you're like, brown and you kind of like her. Like, you're kind of like, wait, what's wrong with her? she okay? but like, you can see it. Ruth Wilson. Like, she's...
00:42:12
Speaker
ah chef's chef's kiss like what yes what the heck like i could talk about this for days she's so unhinged right she she goes in there she interrogates him she's pissed off she's yelling she's like trying to break him he's basically breaking her and he's he's the one that's like chained up he's chained up and so and then she has this like moment and she she leaves and then she comes back later knocks out her and her demon knock out the guard and toss the keys at lee and and is like you you fought the guard for these and then like so how you hate her she's unhinged but then she helps lee escape and then she walks i love this part she walks away right and she goes and she just like stared stares at the wall and
00:43:04
Speaker
And she has this moment with her demon because she has a weird ass relationship with her demon that we don't see with any other, even the most evil people this story. is She has a weird relationship with her so soul. Exactly.
00:43:19
Speaker
Exactly. I got chills. I got chills. It's just so hard to see the way he treats her demon. Yes. It's hurt how she treats herself. It hurts Yeah.
00:43:30
Speaker
Yes, it's how she treats herself. And she has this moment where she's being vulnerable with herself and she's staring at the wall and her demon, and she never like is like nice to her demon.
00:43:43
Speaker
and There's no physical contact. She lets her demon hold her hand for like a second. At that moment. Because she had this moment with Lee. And I was like.
00:43:53
Speaker
Oh my god. Where is this in the book? This is what I'm saying. Is that when they add soul to the TV series. This is what I'm talking about. yep This is not in the book.
00:44:05
Speaker
And Mrs. Coulter, everything she does is for Lyra. And she interrogates Lee and learns and realizes that he loves her like a daughter, just like Mrs. Coulter does.
00:44:18
Speaker
And that was like her deeming him... Worth saving. Worthy. Well, worthy of saving Lyra. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So she's like, yeah, I'm going to let him out of here so he can do something too and help me get to her. Right. Even if it's not for the same cause that I'm doing it for, it doesn't matter. Right.
00:44:40
Speaker
And we still see in the future that she's doing bad things. Right. Oh, yeah. But it's like these in this moment moments. Yep. It's so like, oh, my gosh, it's so complex.
00:44:52
Speaker
And I'm just like, why is this stuff not in the book? It drives me insane. Philip Pullman did have a lot of input in this. So like, and this is not something that I think that he was opposed to by any means. I would read a book just about Mrs. Coulter. I'd read a whole book about it.
00:45:10
Speaker
You never know. the So Lyra does manage to get away from the goon squad, but only because, oh, Mr. Charles Lantrum shows up to pick her up and save her.
Cliffhanger and Conclusion
00:45:22
Speaker
But again, that's no freaking Charles. That's not, that's Lord Boreal. And she gets in the car with him. She says, where can I take you? He drops her off. She realizes she forgot her bag, reaches back for her bag and heads back to Shittagatsi only to realize the alethiometer is not in her bag. oh I was screaming. on She is very upset.
00:45:46
Speaker
She is very upset. Gets back to, you know, Will comes through. They sit for a minute. She explains what happened. But we're in trouble now.
00:45:57
Speaker
We're in trouble. um But I think this is a good place to stop. That's it for part one. While you're waiting for part two. Head to the link in our bio and submit your favorite book adaptation.
00:46:10
Speaker
Next season, we will choose three listener submissions to cover. So get your ideas in now. Who knows? We might pick yours. Don't forget to follow us on our socials to get the latest adaptation news, extra book reviews, and a good dose of hilarious with some clips, memes, fun facts, and conversations.
00:46:27
Speaker
Join us next week as we follow Will and Lyra in their attempt to get the knife, recover the alethiometer, and then with the witches, Lee Scoresby, Mrs. Coulter, the specters, and a pack of feral kids...
00:46:43
Speaker
Will Lyra and Will even stand a chance? Who is the creepy man whispering for Lee Scoresby? We'll find out the next chapter Beast on a Book.
00:46:57
Speaker
Bye! Bye!