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#105: How I Found My Safety Job at the Dog Park
211 Plays1 year ago
Tune in to learn how there is always something you can bring to the table, why building your network is so important, and how simply listening to those more experienced than you can help in many ways.
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Transcript
New Podcast Logo Announcement
00:00:08
Speaker
This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode is recorded May 15th, 2023. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer. And by now, you may have noticed the logo for our podcast has changed. After five years of the same logo, my team of creatives decided it was time to birth a new logo. So goodbye to the dark gray and yellow, and hello to HSI's light blue, navy, and fuchsia.
Guest Introduction: Jane Davies
00:00:36
Speaker
and also hello today to my guest Jane Davies. Jane is a loss prevention consultant at the Arizona Department of Administration and joins us today from the greater Phoenix, Arizona area. Welcome to the show, Jane. Oh, thank you so much, Jill.
00:00:55
Speaker
It's a little surreal for me. I've been listening to the podcast for so long. I have to continue to remind myself Jill is actually speaking to me. How exciting. I'm very excited. Thank you for having me. Well, you're welcome. And thank you for being an avid listener to the podcast all these years and being the person who gets to help me birth a new logo. So that's pretty awesome.
00:01:22
Speaker
That's pretty awesome. Absolutely.
Finding a Career by Chance
00:01:25
Speaker
So, Jane, your story, as I'm told, your EHS story, your EHS journey, I have a feeling it probably begins before this, but I've heard you like to say that you found this job at a dog park. So, you know, like, what kind of dog park? What kind of dog did you have? How did this all go down?
00:01:45
Speaker
Oh, yes, that is one of my favorite stories. I am the epitome of Accidental Safety Pro, which is what kind of drew me to the podcast in the first place. Back in the Great Recession, 2007, 8, 9, I was working for a local general contractor and not in a safety position. We did have some
00:02:11
Speaker
safety and for, you know, safety meetings and things like that, that I was definitely working on the administrative side. And when the recession happened, I got laid off as, as tons of other people. So I was working diligently sending out resumes, something to the tune of like three a day for five days a week for months. Wow.
00:02:40
Speaker
And my husband and I, we had just moved into a house I think the year before we had bought a house. And there was a nearby dog park that we had a, at the time, a Rhodesian Ridgeback who is, was really quirky, but really enjoyed the dog park and my husband would go every day. And, you know, I made the decision one day, you know, just go down there with him and hang out with the other four,
00:03:08
Speaker
unemployed people at the dog park, cause that's what you do in the middle of the day when you don't have a job. And there was a girl there, a very, um, fairly young girl in her early, early twenties. And they, I think they called her the dog park secretary and she walked in and announced to everyone within hearing distance that, Oh, thank God, I found a job. I can finally get away from all of those. Ranky old people.
00:03:38
Speaker
And my response was, well, if you're not using the job that you currently have, can I have it? Because I kind of need a job.
Journey in EHS and Loss Prevention
00:03:50
Speaker
So she said cranky old people and your ears perked up or was it? I found another job and I'm going somewhere else.
00:04:00
Speaker
Uh, that was kind of how the conversation started. And it was like, well, what do you do? And she said she worked for this date. She actually was a contract employee, attempt employee. Um, but she was working with the risk management group and she was doing some things on, and she was nice enough to actually take my resume in and they called me in and I did an interview with them and they did, they hired me through a contract, but then they, they hired me out of the contract.
00:04:29
Speaker
a couple of months later. That's fantastic. I mean, that's fantastic. I've gotten jobs in creative ways, but never like, hey, I'm leaving my job. And you're like, my hand is raised. Insert me here. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're not going to use the one you got. And like I said, you know, three and it really was, I sent out no less than three resumes every day for five days for it was three or four months. Yeah.
00:05:00
Speaker
Um, you know, and you get panicked after,
Diverse Roles in State Agencies
00:05:02
Speaker
after so long, especially, you know, during the recession, there were, you know, people with master's degrees couldn't get anything. Yeah. Yeah. And plus you need insurance and all of the, I mean, in, in great insurance, all the things that keep you up at night. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, that, that was.
00:05:21
Speaker
quirkly how that happened. So what? Go ahead. Yeah. So they were nice enough. They brought me in as basically an administrative assistant. OK. And then I worked in that position for a few months, then transitioned to be the executive assistant to the risk manager for the state. And. Do you have any idea what that meant?
00:05:51
Speaker
Well, I had from my previous, previous employment as I worked for a land developer. And that was fabulous. And I got to do a little I work here in the Phoenix, the Greater Phoenix area. And I also worked in Hawaii for two years. They moved me over to Hawaii for a couple of years. So the Hawaiian sabbatical wasn't bad either.
00:06:12
Speaker
not a bad gig if you can afford to live there oh my gosh i'm just smelling plumeria as you say that right now okay right right yeah and i have yeah i have plumeria trees outside of my house right now um you can grow them in pots jill okay okay probably not in minnesota but okay um but so i had some experience with insurance
00:06:41
Speaker
uh, contracts and insurance and, you know, from the construction side, some safety components there, there's, uh, dust control issues that, you know, the general contractor that I worked for was the group that I worked for with the general contractor had, um, environmental responsibilities for dust control on the projects. So I had experienced there.
00:07:11
Speaker
And it just seemed like it was a pretty good fit. And so I worked my way out of that into handling a project for medical, not medical surveillance, but post-offer physical. So pre-hire physicals, there had to be an offer extended.
00:07:33
Speaker
So they gave me that project to outsource that to a vendor and manage that and that went well and that worked into, hey, we're going to make you a loss prevention consultant.
00:07:49
Speaker
So what that means is that I work on a team of folks and we support the different state agencies and their, so their safety programs. They are the true owners of the programs. We are their support mechanism or the Department of Administration. That's what we do is support the other state agencies.
Education and Personal Growth in EHS
00:08:10
Speaker
Sure, with resources, training, contracts, what does support look like in those kind of roles for people who aren't familiar with state government? Well, support from our perspective is, yes, we do provide some training. Procurement, there's a procurement department. So we review contracts for insurance
00:08:40
Speaker
and we handle all of the claims against the state. Got it.
00:08:44
Speaker
So that's the division that we work in. They handle the workers' compensation claims, the property and liability claims, general liability claims that's kind of expanded into cyber now that's co-mingled with some other divisions. But it's a hugely diverse and especially if you enjoy diversity in a job, you get all the diversity that you could possibly want.
00:09:14
Speaker
here. Yeah, well, I mean, that's right. Because I mean, a state entity, various state entities, support, well, every part of our, of our, of our community existence, right? And so very varied levels of hazards, and varied levels of people whose lives you impact. Correct. Yes. So it, it helps
00:09:43
Speaker
you know, having someone, I always advocate to have, even when I'm training OSHA, I always advocate, you know, bring somebody in from the outside and let them look around. Just so you have a different set of eyes on things. The diversity at the state is extremely wide, you know, from, we'll have like
00:10:09
Speaker
the Department of Game and Fish and they, you know, they do interact with the federal government and there are some counties that are involved that you'll have.
00:10:19
Speaker
You know, the Department of Game and Fish, you'll have the Department of Child Safety, you may have the Department of Veterans Services, Department of Agriculture, Gaming, which covers, I think the Department of Gaming covers boxing, horse racing, and any of the casino entities. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that is diverse.
00:10:47
Speaker
There is a lot, a lot of diversity, but it's, I find it really energizing. I'm a huge consumer of information, like the podcast, for example. So it, I really enjoyed the diversity and the amount of information that is available that you can learn from.
00:11:16
Speaker
Yeah, you're a lifelong learner. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Jane, so you get, you know, you've made your way from dog park to admin assistant to executive assistant and, you know, working for the state. Well, oh yeah, the post offer physicals into the state safety program. How were you picking up
00:11:44
Speaker
you know, the practice of EHS, like you just described yourself as a lifelong learner, how were you teaching yourself along the way? Or was the state partnering with you on that? Or how did that piece work? To a degree, yes, they're, they're very supportive of education.
Managing Diverse Risks
00:12:01
Speaker
But I, well, and a good team helps also. I did
00:12:09
Speaker
when I was in the between the executive assistant position, I think, and the position of the project coordinator, which did the post offer physical component. One of my co workers who is a brilliant lady.
00:12:26
Speaker
that worked with that, and she has her associate in risk management, associate in claims, and she was teaching a course through the institutes, I believe, for associate in claims, and she said, I think you should take this class. That's what I said, okay. Sure, sign me up. So I took it, and I did really well in it.
00:12:53
Speaker
It was something that she was providing for the state employees Because she was the instructor and I think they had to pay for the materials but so she she did provide that for a lot of the co-workers and it's funny how many Some of the people really embraced it. Some of the people did not they just couldn't you know, they couldn't manage the schedule or things like that. So I
00:13:20
Speaker
I did really well and I got my associate in claims. And then also went on after two or three years, they decided that lady had left state service at that point. But the risk management group that I worked for decided they would offer the associate and risk management program also.
00:13:48
Speaker
So I took that and I also obtained my Associate in Risk Management. And those courses really also open your eyes to the true risks that are out there. There are things that you don't realize are out there until you kind of get involved in the insurance side, things like the DRAM rules.
00:14:19
Speaker
for liquor licenses and you know owning a bar and the garage keeper's coverage for vehicles that you may be let's say impounding or things like that there there is just such a myriad of different risks and exposures that are out there and I think that that also helps to open your eyes to the risk side and how it
00:14:48
Speaker
interfaces with the safety components. Yeah, and the safety components, I'm guessing the more you moved around, the more you met people, the more that you were in service to the other agencies, your eyes were open to various different types of risks. And I believe you have a story about how asbestos might have been a little intimidating.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yes. As it is. Yes. When they first brought me in, and I'm really grateful to the state for giving me this opportunity, but when they brought me in as a loss prevention consultant, and you work with other safety professionals in the agencies, and I had a particular agency, the person that I was interfacing with was an asbestos expert.
00:15:42
Speaker
And that was that was his area of expertise. And if I had to speak to this person about asbestos, I would just burst into tears in my boss's office because I was asbestos illiterate. And it frightened me terribly. Yeah. And my boss would will tell you, you know, he would talk me off a ledge and
00:16:07
Speaker
You know, my perspective was there's nothing that I can bring to this conversation that this person that I'm speaking to does not already know or have. But there's information out there. There's what I've learned over the years, and my boss will be so happy to hear this, is that there's always something that you can bring to the table.
00:16:32
Speaker
don't think because you are not an expert in asbestos that you don't have the skills to gain that knowledge and make yourself valuable to the people that you're helping.
Strength of a Diverse Team
00:16:50
Speaker
that's right yeah yeah that's right yeah and so how did you start well i guess what did you become aware of you know you're crying in your boss's office and i'm sorry i mean asbestos is super complex it absolutely is as you mentioned dust earlier you know same thing really complicated yep all these health hazards are complicated
00:17:12
Speaker
How did you start teaching yourself or what did you learn? Was the value that you could bring, you know, I'm thinking about our listeners who might be either young in their careers or just switched to a different place of employment where it's a whole new band of hazards that they never knew existed or don't know very much about and they're like
00:17:36
Speaker
holy crap people's lives are on the line here i've got this you know the switch the light switch turned on and now i'm responsible how do i how do i bring value so what did you learn about yourself yeah well that's thank you that's a great question what i did learn is that listening is key right if you're a good listener in the example that i gave you
00:18:03
Speaker
The person that I was interfacing with that was his
00:18:07
Speaker
he you know he came from the military he was the asbestos expert for the you know that particular agency but if you if you listen first of all so he's the expert right so he's got all the experience and he's going to give you that experience because people like especially you know some of the the old experts you know that have all of the institutional knowledge
00:18:35
Speaker
They want to impart that to other people. Yeah, for sure. So if you're a good listener and you ask good questions, oftentimes those people that you are engaging with or interacting with will walk themselves to the solution that they're seeking.
00:19:06
Speaker
And I learned that asbestos is not particularly as scary as I made it out to be. If you know where it is, leave it alone. Make sure everybody else leaves it alone.
00:19:19
Speaker
If you can't believe bad, intact, not bad. That's right. If you can't leave it alone, you work with an expert, a vendor that can deal with it appropriately. That's pretty much it. It has become less scary. My boss at the time, who I was having a panic attack going, there's nothing I can do. I can't say anything to this person.
00:19:48
Speaker
What could I possibly bring in? He was very good about teaching also. So he would say, oh, here's our asbestos program, and I think we need to rewrite it. So why don't you do that?
00:20:10
Speaker
That was kind of sneaky. Look it here. So that also helps. So as you delve into the programs, you know, go out and look at programs. And I've, you know, I've produced several now through the universities.
00:20:30
Speaker
And universities are also our customers so along with the state agencies I forgot to throw the universities in there also, you know, University of Arizona, Arizona State University Northern Arizona University. They all have super robust programs and experts.
00:20:50
Speaker
You know, I would go out and look at their programs. Fortunately, we have the internet now so there, there are tons and tons of information online that you can, you can look through. I know, like I have a co worker who is just enamored with the website structure for the Montana State.
00:21:15
Speaker
compensation fund, I think. She's like, I really like the structure of this website. How do I get my website to look like that? So all of these, all of these components work together. But asbestos, you know, I'm much more comfortable with it now. I am still not an expert. And the other thing that I realized is I don't have to be an expert because the experts are out there.
00:21:42
Speaker
Right, right, right, right. And so you've, I believe a word that you used with me, a phrase that you used with me when we were talking before the recording is, I know a guy. So what does that mean? What does that mean to you that we can apply to our listeners? Well, and I do want to bring attention to, I work on a team of six.
00:22:12
Speaker
a really dynamic team. And that is also what makes our particular loss prevention piece work so well. I'm the data nerd on the team. I would be perfectly happy to live in Excel spreadsheets for the rest of my life. God bless you.
00:22:36
Speaker
I don't want anything to do with the Word document. I have, there's, I have a team member who is the marketing, you know, she, her strength is marketing. She does all of our editing. She has a human resource background. I think she had a degree in human resources. I have a team member who is, he came from the radiation regulatory.
00:23:03
Speaker
agency at the state. So he has that expertise. I have one team member who is a former firefighter and also a former correctional officer. So he has that expertise. I have a team member who had, has a degree in, I believe it's biology. And I have a manager who has a degree in environmental resource management.
00:23:33
Speaker
So we really enjoy each other too, which helps. But the combination of all of those entities, so depending on what the hazard is that comes about, there's somebody on the team. It may not be me, but there is someone on the team who has experience
00:24:03
Speaker
you know, may have had some interaction with something similar to that in either, you know, their day-to-day duties or in a past, you know, past job. And if they don't, they have the network that can find that. So, you know, if one of my state agency customers comes to me and asks a question,
00:24:30
Speaker
that I can't answer, it's like, well, let me present to the team and I'll let you know by the end of the day or tomorrow. We meet, my team meets, we're all working from home now. So my team meets every day. First thing in the morning to talk about that. And that's when, if we have these questions or we have a problem that needs to be solved
00:24:59
Speaker
we can put it out there. So I do recommend for those folks that are new and coming up perhaps, is build your network.
Building Networks and Trust
00:25:12
Speaker
You know, find a group of people that are like-minded, whether it's through LinkedIn, whether it's through ASSP, National Safety Council, but build your network.
00:25:31
Speaker
And the one thing that I have found just overall in the safety industry is safety people, people who are safety minded are always willing to share what they have. Their knowledge, you know, if you're looking for, let's say I need a, you know, I need a safety program for,
00:25:56
Speaker
lock out, tag out, and you go to your group and say, does anybody have this? Do you know of someone who has this? Chances are you will get a response and you'll get several good responses.
00:26:12
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, for people who are thinking, gosh, but Jane, how do you start building your network? You gave some really great examples. And also, you're not, you won't shy away from cold calling.
00:26:32
Speaker
want to talk about that? Sure. Like I said, I am a well, first of all, I'm a huge consumer of information. You know, take the free webinars that come across your desk, register for them. Even if you don't take it, they'll send you a recording. I know it jams up your email box, your inbox, but do it. And, you know, look at the publications, you don't have to read the whole the whole thing. You don't have to sit down for an hour and read through it. But I had
00:27:02
Speaker
I had found a person, the state uses Google for their email platform and their office, the state of Arizona does. And so their office suite, so we use Google Sheets, we use Google Docs. And I was glancing through, it was probably the OH&S monthly magazine and it had the 40 under 40 list.
00:27:30
Speaker
And I was just quickly, you know, I like to, to look and see, you know, who are the up and coming stars. And I happened to just read somebody's bio in there that said they had created a EHS system using Google Worksites. And I thought, wow, that's really interesting. You know, I probably have some customers that can use that. They had his name and his company there, so I called him.
00:27:58
Speaker
And he was perfectly, he was excited to talk to me and he was perfectly happy to schedule some time and, you know, go through the whole program, how he had put it together, how it worked. It was fabulous. And I may take some of that information and use it to help some of our state agencies that need that type of support.
00:28:20
Speaker
We're always looking for the least expensive method too. Of course. You work for government. I work for government, yes. The best use of the taxpayers' dollars is cost efficient. So if we can leverage software that we currently have and come up with a good solution, all the better.
00:28:49
Speaker
you know, this person, I just happened to happen to see it. And I thought, well, you know, that's a great thing. I need to, you know, I need to hear more about this. So Google, Google is, is, you know, Google's fabulous. And, you know, I called, I called this gentleman up and he was so, you know, so warm and willing to
00:29:15
Speaker
schedule time and I'm still in touch with him. I haven't been able to get anybody to actually buy into this yet, but I do have a couple of people who are interested in at least seeing it and he's still interested in coming back and showing it again.
00:29:33
Speaker
That's wonderful. That's wonderful. And you know that, dear listeners, for any of you who are like, I don't know about this cold calling business Jane is talking about, it's literally how I get every podcast guest, literally.
00:29:48
Speaker
Like, Jane, how did we connect? You sent me a thank you, which was wonderful. And I said, hey, how about coming on the show? Right. Let's go one further with that. I actually took one of the free webinars. Yeah, right. And one of your folks followed up with me. And I said, thank you, but no, thank you, because we currently have a safety training library.
00:30:18
Speaker
big fan of the podcast, you know, and then we chatted about that for a minute. And then I get some, you know, I get a LinkedIn request from Jill James who says, Hey, do you want to be on the podcast? And I was like, what? Come on. Come on. That's literally how it works over 100 times. No. And, and I don't know that I've had anyone who said no.
00:30:48
Speaker
I mean, and you're right. It's following this thread of maybe I'm paying attention a lot on LinkedIn to what people are saying and the way that they're saying things and sometimes the way that someone frames something up or presents something or shared a white paper. I'm like, oh, that's interesting. They seem like they might know something that I don't know, which is a lot.
00:31:16
Speaker
or a story that's interesting and they just seem intriguing to me. So I just reach out. And so for our listeners, when you're trying to build your network, as Jane said, or build your knowledge base, absolutely reach out.
Honesty and Reliability in Professional Relationships
00:31:30
Speaker
That is the great thing about our chosen profession is that the majority of us are willing to share. Yep. Yes, that is true. And I have not
00:31:42
Speaker
I have not run into a, I haven't run into a situation where I have called up somebody in the safety profession and said, Hey, I need help with this. And they said, well, are you crazy? Go somewhere else. Because we are all, I think we want, you know, that's, that's what we want to do. We want to help people. Uh, and the other, the other
00:32:10
Speaker
piece of that is build your network. And that kind of leads me into another piece that I was thinking about, which is
00:32:20
Speaker
Say what you mean and mean what you say. So the other piece is in relationship building, especially with people. If you tell somebody, look, I'm going to get this to you by this date, make sure that you do that. Or if you say that you're going to provide something for them, make sure you do that because that's a big part of the building trust also.
00:32:51
Speaker
say what you mean and mean what you say. So if you're helping someone out in the field and you don't know the answer to the asbestos question, as it were, you tell them, okay, well, let me present that to the team.
00:33:07
Speaker
I'll get back to you and then make sure you do get back to them. Because if you don't, they're not going to come to you again and you lose that credibility.
00:33:21
Speaker
Yeah, trust. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's very good. Jane, coming back to the ask good questions piece, I'm just thinking about good questions, you know, and the way that you kind of dig into things. Do you want to do you want to, I'm guessing you might have a little bit of a formula, maybe or some standard questions you use, would you like to share any of them?
00:33:47
Speaker
You know, gosh, that's a great question. I don't know that I do. But as I alluded to before, especially if you're talking to, there's an end point, especially if you're out in the field and you're working with someone and they always say, you know, ask humble questions.
00:34:15
Speaker
It, I always try to frame it in, you know, teach me something because especially, especially some of the folks that have been embedded in their position for so long and they're, Oh, here comes the, you know, here comes this kid. And they're gonna, they're gonna start, you know, giving me all of the, you know, giving me the business about safety. And I know all about it, but.
00:34:45
Speaker
It's the, you know, getting them to recognize what the hazard is and what they do to control it. So having them, you know, especially if they've been embedded in the position a lot and you're the new guy coming in.
00:35:11
Speaker
You know, they're the asbestos expert and they're not, you know, I really can't bring anything to the table that they have. So tell me, okay, we're going to, you know, we're going to do this asbestos project. What do I, you know, what would I have to do first and have them walk you through that? And what I found more often than not is as they are walking through the process,
00:35:40
Speaker
they will walk to the answer you were looking for. And then you see the light go on when they get there. Because that's what you're trying to get them to do, is they know the answer. And you find out a lot, also, is that they know the answer. But they don't have the tools to actually get to that answer. So tell me. So we have this asbestos project.
00:36:07
Speaker
Or you have people that you don't want to damage the walls, let's say, in the building. So how do we go about that? How do we go about, you know, making sure that they can't damage the walls or they don't damage the walls? And what happens if they do damage the walls? And have them walk you through that.
00:36:29
Speaker
I think you have a formula and you just didn't know it.
Learning from Others: Asking Questions
00:36:34
Speaker
Okay, so what I heard you say, Jane, for all of our listeners is ask humble questions. My gosh, that's beautiful. Absolutely. Don't assume, don't walk in assuming that you know it all. It puts people, it puts people off, right? And your piece about using the framing of teach me, show me how, teach me how this works, how you do this, and then
00:36:59
Speaker
You also said, how can we control this hazard? What are your ideas? And how can we do X, Y, and Z? And what happens if? I think that's beautiful. That's perfect. Yeah. You did it. Oh, thank you. You got it. You got it. You got one. You got one. And it's a good thing. It's a good thing. And stories, again, if you don't, like I know a guy, but also stories. And I know I've told you this as well.
00:37:29
Speaker
steal them. If you don't have any stories of your own, somebody does have one steal it. I steal gills all the time. Thanks, Jane. You're welcome to them. I use the worst case scenario mom often, which is one of my favorites. Again, there are certain things that I just don't have stories for. I have used a welder in my life
00:37:59
Speaker
not professionally, but personally, but things like a forklift. I have not operated a forklift, except for the one time where I thought, oh my goodness, I've never operated a forklift. I should probably take this class that my coworker is training so that I have some practical application, which is never a bad thing.
00:38:25
Speaker
steal the stories, so I can talk about, you know, take the training, listen to somebody else's story, and or have the people that you're training tell you their stories.
00:38:37
Speaker
That's right. That's right. I mean, gosh, Jane, that's so, that's so important. I mean, I've never operated a crane. I don't know how to operate a crane. How many crane operators have I spoken with in my career? Quite a few. So what did I learn from one of them? One of them said to me when I was asking about, you know, like, how do you know
00:38:58
Speaker
If the weight of your load, the weight of the pick that you're going to do, that it's not too heavy for the crane that you have, are you using the tables that are, you know, like placards on the inside of the crane? And then at one point someone said to me, I feel it in my butt. Me and the crane starts to lift up. Right? And I'm like, oh, oh, oh, that's not good. So what kind of questions did I start asking?
00:39:25
Speaker
Hey, do you use the tables inside the crane when you're figuring out if your crane's being exceeded, or do you feel it in your butt? And then people would laugh. And I knew immediately what I was saying. I've never operated a crane, but that one person who told me that story I've been able to use for the last 30 years. Right. Yeah. So that's absolutely true. And you'll recognize the stories that resonate with you.
00:39:53
Speaker
You know like I don't know that I would ever speak to a crane operator, but you know for forklifts I you know I can I can feel those stories or I like using when I'm doing OSHA training I like using YouTube videos that I think you know that are short and impactful because The stories are out there and you don't necessarily have to be the one who was injured in order to have that
00:40:23
Speaker
impact on folks. Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. A coworker of mine reminded me the other week about a YouTube channel. I think it's called something like How It's Made.
00:40:37
Speaker
Okay. And it shows, you know, different essentially manufacturing processes or other processes about, you know, how a thing is created and made. And for anyone who's trying to figure out like, you know, what would that industry look like? What would it be like
00:40:57
Speaker
How do they do what they do? You know what I mean? Because you, in your role with the state, you get to see these various kinds of work environments. And so it really widens and enriches your level of knowledge and expertise about how things are done. And I have that same experience having worked for OSHA.
00:41:18
Speaker
but people who don't get that vision, visuals into seeing all these different kinds of work environments, like how can they gain that knowledge? And I looked at that YouTube channel and I thought, gosh, this is actually really good for teaching people, like, what might it look like? What might it feel like? What are people, you know, what is the machinery? How are people moving? How are these things being made? And I think that might be a way for people to gain a little bit of that information and knowledge.
00:41:48
Speaker
That's awesome. Good old YouTube. Yes. That's right. And I think that's where I was going earlier when I said Google is great. So, you know, you can go for cold calling, you know, the cold calling. Now we have Google. Google's fantastic. And you can just Google somebody's name and the company that they work for and at least get a phone number. And that's literally what I did. I found I knew what the gentleman's name was.
00:42:14
Speaker
I think I found him on LinkedIn and I found the company that he worked for. I called the company and said, yeah, I'm calling to talk to you. You know, and he doesn't know me, but I saw him in this magazine and I have some questions about this, you know, this program that he set up and I want to ask him more. And he was, and he was totally excited about it. And, you know, like, oh my goodness, you know, kind of like I was when Jill called me.
00:42:41
Speaker
You're like, oh my goodness. Somebody actually read the article and I didn't read, like I said, I didn't read the entire magazine. I was just glancing through there and I saw the word Google Worksites and I was like, oh, yeah, we use Google Worksites. What's he doing? You asked a humble question. Wonderful. Yeah.
Western Upbringing and Safety Practices
00:43:01
Speaker
So Jane, what do you
00:43:05
Speaker
You know, what do you, how are you, what do you think about and what you believe about the EHS role to be today compared to what you knew safety was when you were, when you were growing up? Like, yeah, do a compare and contrast to where you started in life and where you are today. Yeah.
00:43:32
Speaker
All right. Well, I, uh, I started, uh, my background is pretty Western, to say the least. My father is, was a, uh, farrier horseshoe and he was also a professional rodeo cowboy. He was a steer wrestler. Um, and my brother is also, you know, he's, he's a farrier today and he was also a professional cowboy, more of the rust stock riding.
00:44:00
Speaker
But I always like to say that the cowboy way that I grew up in was the original Nike philosophy of just do it. So most of the guys in that Western atmosphere, it's a just do it attitude, just get it done.
00:44:28
Speaker
Didn't think at the time there was a whole lot of safety involved in it. When I look back at, I think I told you, you know, my dad took every grounding plug off of every piece of equipment, power equipment we ever had for whatever reason. Dang. Right. And I didn't realize it until, you know, I got it to safety. Right. You know, like, Oh, okay. You know, I didn't do it. It wasn't something that I personally subscribe to. I have no idea why he did it.
00:44:53
Speaker
But I think about being a horse, you know, he was a horse shoe and I would, we were free labor. So we were the, you know, designated horse handlers during the summertime. We would go with dad and he would be working on somebody's horse and I would have a lead rope wrapped around my hand. And he would stop and say, you know, that's not how you do that. If the horse pulls back, it's going to lock your hand into that. And then you're going to go wherever the horse goes, you're going to get
00:45:21
Speaker
drug and that is not what we want to happen. So I really had, you know, when I started getting into the EHS piece and started thinking about safety and the things that would get people hurt was what I got when I was a kid. I didn't get
00:45:44
Speaker
you know, a lot of the specifics as far as, you know, electrical safety, but the things that were, I'm really having a hard time articulating. Yeah, I mean, you're, you're, you're describing, you're describing risk and what you learned through the lived experience of risk. Yeah, right. So, you know, I didn't
00:46:11
Speaker
I mean, I was exposed to it as a kid. I don't know that I embraced it as much until I got into the EHS piece. And it isn't that people don't know what's inherently safe and what's not inherently safe.
00:46:31
Speaker
I think in the workplace, it's the desire to make a good impression and get the job done quickly that adds to the risk. So it's much more, I think I'm much more aware of the behavior-based component of it now than I was
00:46:57
Speaker
growing up but I think and it's funny because you know I mentioned safety to my brother and he just kind of looks at me and rolls his eyes oh yeah you OSHA person you because he's doing it the cowboy way most of the time but you know it's funny because I see how they react with people both my father and my brother
00:47:23
Speaker
They're very compassionate and empathetic people when it comes to caring for others. And if I could see a little bit more of that, I think, in our workplaces today, and I don't know
00:47:41
Speaker
You know, how many of you out there, and I try to teach this and I try to speak to this every day, where you go into a workplace after there's been an injury or an accident or you're, you know, you're looking at this and their first response is, Oh, well that person, you know, is, it's the person's fault. Yeah. Yeah. I blame the victim. Blame. Well, you know, if, if they, you know,
00:48:08
Speaker
I hear common sense.
The Variability of 'Common Sense' in Safety
00:48:14
Speaker
That's just common sense. What is that? That's not a fair assessment. Like I said, I tried to speak to it. Well, nobody got up this morning and said, hey, I'm going to go to work and tip a forklift over. Bet you I can do it.
00:48:37
Speaker
But something has happened, either it's complacency, you know, lack of training. I don't know how many times, you know, everybody's trained to, you know, we all get in our cars and we put our seat belts on. Everybody does it. And they do it without thinking it. Why, when you get into a golf cart or a forklift, do you not do it? That's right. Where's the disconnect there?
00:49:05
Speaker
You know, and is it if we took the, you know, if we took the doors off the cars, would they not use the seatbelts because it's going to impede their rapid exit from the vehicle? It's kind of where that goes. So it's, it's the, you know. Yeah. Why are people, you know, why do we always say, Oh, well, let's just common sense people. Everybody should know that.
00:49:36
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, everyone's common sense is vastly different. I mean, right. You know, what your dad and your brother taught you about not wrapping the lead rope around your hand is common sense to them. Right. But it's not to anyone. And it's common sense to me now.
00:49:54
Speaker
Yeah, you know, when I think about common sense and what I learned when I was growing up, and not all of us have an opportunity like you did to work as free labor like you put it a lot next to your dad, you know, with the horses, I had the opportunity to have a parent who worked in a factory that was directly across from my elementary school.
00:50:17
Speaker
and he worked a swing shift and I would walk from my grade school across the street and onto the factory floor. It was a printing factory, so printing presses, making magazines, all this whirling paper and ink. There were seven men, that's what they called them, press men, that worked on the presses. My dad was the lead pressman.
00:50:44
Speaker
And I knew all the jobs of all those people because I would stand there and wait for a shift to end. And then he would inevitably somehow I don't know if he told me or other people told me it was a loud, noisy environment. I'm a little girl, you know, sometimes selling my Girl Scout cookies, standing next to the whirling presses. And I knew all the injuries all of them had had.
00:51:05
Speaker
I knew that so-and-so got his finger caught in this thing, and so-and-so had a back injury here, and my dad had this injury there, and so I was identifying the risks and learning about these injuries by these seven men who ran this printing press. And that became my common sense, not because I did the job, but I stood there and watched them, and then they were like, stand here, move over there, you can't be here, so that I didn't get
00:51:35
Speaker
caught in some whirling piece of the of the equipment you know and watching how carefully they did pardon me how carefully they did some things specifically with you know in the printing industry when there is an error in the printing they use a little tiny plastic card about the size of a credit card and as the ink is rolling against the paper
00:52:04
Speaker
they will pick that little imperfection off. Can you imagine reaching into it? I watched that as a kid. And so fast forward to my profession, and I learned what an in-running knit point is. I'm like, oh, yeah, I've seen that. Oh, yeah, I've seen that. And I know the guy that got his hand caught in that. Right? So do they have the card on a longer stick now?
00:52:29
Speaker
I don't know. So you don't have to stick your hand in there? Yeah, I don't know. I haven't been back in the printing industry in many years. I inspected a newspaper printing company when I was with OSHA and that was the second one that I've been in. But that's a good question. I don't know. I mean, my dad had the card and he kept it in his lunchbox.
00:52:50
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, I know. My dad had the card and he kept it in his lunchbox. That's awesome. Along with his peppermint gum. Yeah, it's a little different. You know, my dad, well, this is a man who chose to jump off a running horse at a running steer.
00:53:10
Speaker
You know, that was his, you know, that was his idea of fun, as it were, and, you know, or... Yeah, so the common sense is just... Yeah, so it's a word that should be struck from our vocabulary.
00:53:27
Speaker
Right. And, you know, common sense, I when I'm, you know, I'm just thinking back, I just got done teaching an OSHA class. And, you know, I heard that word, you know, these guys in there are just like, well, that's just common sense. So that's like, well, I use the Bill Cosby, if you've ever heard the Bill Cosby, like chocolate cake for breakfast thing when he talks about telling his kids to take a bath.
00:53:53
Speaker
You know, and he would say, you know, get in the bathtub, turn on the water, otherwise they'll just wander around the bathtub, you know, with no water running, use soap. It's all the things, you know, you would tell him, get in the bathtub, turn on the water. And it's kind of the same way with safety. When you ask somebody like, well, you know, did they teach you to do that or?
00:54:20
Speaker
Is this, you know, did you figure this out on your own as far as how to, you know, how to do this one thing? What training have you had? And that's a huge part of it is training too. And taking the time to, you know, when somebody new comes in, you know, to tell them, and it's interesting, the story that you gave as you as a child, you know,
00:54:48
Speaker
their, the, the press men, their awareness to the fact that you didn't understand or may not understand the risk or the exposure that you're having to this danger. Why, why do people lose that once they, you know, once we're all grown up and we're all on the display? Yeah. And, you know, they just assume that this person, you know, lands, lands on the, you know, the press floor.
00:55:18
Speaker
And they're going to understand that, oh, you know, that's how it is. They're much, you know, we're much more aware for children than for ourselves. Yeah. Or co-workers or peers. And why is that? It's a great question. It is a great question. Jane, I know we're running out of time here. You just finished your OSHA 30. And I wanted to ask you about that. How did that go for you? Training the OSHA 30?
00:55:49
Speaker
Oh, you were doing the OSHA 30. I trained, yeah. I am an OSHA 10 and an OSHA 30 trainer. And I tell you, I find that so enjoyable. Yeah. I do. And I've had some really good, the last couple of OSHA 30 classes I've had have just been really, really gratifying to me. And I know I've heard on your show before, you always tell folks, you don't know what you don't know until you know what you don't know.
00:56:19
Speaker
That is I know you had asked me like, what, what do I take away from the podcast and a lot of it is stories. And again, I know I use I try to use things that are local to the Phoenix area when we talk about I talk about hazards and exposures.
00:56:39
Speaker
And just because there's a hazard, it doesn't mean that you're necessarily exposed to it. And I usually use grizzly bears as an example. Grizzly bears are hazardous, but we don't have a whole lot of exposure to grizzly bears in Arizona. So if there's no exposure, then chances are you're not going to be harmed by a grizzly bear. But there was an instance here in Phoenix at one of our zoos where
00:57:09
Speaker
a patron of that zoo, you know, breached a barrier to take a selfie, turned her back to the cage and the jaguar reached her and got her. So, you know, and like I said, I'm sure I'm positive that person didn't say, hey, let's go to the zoo. I want to be attacked by a jaguar.
00:57:35
Speaker
You know, and it's the exposure to the hazard. So, you know, the hazard we, you know, we can all agree that jaguars are hazardous. But, you know, and the person just did not understand that, you know, and I'm sure that.
00:57:51
Speaker
They, you know, they made a conscious decision to step over the barrier and put themselves into proximity to the jaguar. But then there were some other components that went into that, you know. Did the facility understand that, you know, if somebody could breach the barrier that there could be an exposure to the jaguar by it reaching through that enclosure and getting a hold of somebody.
00:58:19
Speaker
there were a whole lot of other things that went into that. So again, not my story. I stole it. Yeah. It works. It absolutely works. Yeah. Oh, man. Jane, is there is there anything else that you'd like to share in closing with our listening audience today? Oh, gosh.
00:58:45
Speaker
Build your network, everybody. Build your network. You know, find the stories that are impactful to you. They don't necessarily have to be your own. And, you know, say what you mean and mean what you say. If you tell somebody you're going to do something, do something. And never be afraid to ask everybody, you know, for help.
00:59:09
Speaker
That's the one thing I'm sure my manager will be the happiest to hear me say because I thought for a long time I needed to have the answers in order to be effective. Yeah, that's right.
00:59:22
Speaker
And I don't I can find the answers. And I know people I know a guy who can help me find the answer. And we and we know each other. So that's true. Yeah, that's great. Oh, that's perfect. Jane. Thank you so much for that. And thank you for everything that you've shared today.
00:59:40
Speaker
And if, I guess the other thing that I would add is that everyone should probably fire up the old Google later and look for a Rhodesian Ridgeback dog like I did while Jane was speaking. It's gorgeous. That's a gorgeous dog that helped you find your way to this profession. Yes, yes. They are built for, what I tell everybody is they are built for speed and endurance and their dog parents, not so much.
01:00:11
Speaker
It's wonderful. Thank you so much, Jane. It's been a pleasure, Jill. I so enjoyed speaking to you. Thank you for reaching out. I so appreciate it.
01:00:21
Speaker
You're welcome. And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good. Making sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day. If you aren't subscribed and want to hear past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you'd like. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more EHS professionals like Jane and I.
01:00:49
Speaker
Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer and until next time, thanks for listening.