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Ep 6. Ruchika Varma, Future Generali
155 Plays2 years ago
In what our editors voted as the most fun conversation on Marketing Connect, we speak to Ruchika Varma about what does it to take create marketing campaigns that work. And that too when you are all of three months old into the system. And the entire country is under a strict lockdown!
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast, a show where we get up close and personal with some of the most celebrated marketeers in the country. We talk to them and discover nuances of marketing that we often miss. After all, we are a show for marketeers by marketeers. Listen in.
00:00:29
Speaker
On this episode, we have Ruchika Varma with us. She is the CMO of Future Generali India Insurance Company. She talks to us about how a hyper competitive industry like insurance goes about its marketing function. Hi everyone, I'm Ruchika Varma.
Ruchika's Career Journey Overview
00:00:43
Speaker
I'm the Chief Marketing Officer of Future Generali India Insurance, which is basically the general insurance arm of the JV between Generali, which has a 189 year history in insurance and Future Group, which needs no introduction. Of course, you know them from the big bazaar thing.
00:01:00
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you for taking out time. I know this took a while for us to, you know, get you on the podcast. But thank you so, so much for taking out time. Really appreciate your time. My pleasure. I have a lot of tough questions also lined up, but let me start with an easy one. Let's talk about your journey as a marketeer, you know, from your days at IMI Delhi to where you are right now. Sure. Saurabh has been quite arrived since my IMI daily.
00:01:28
Speaker
You know, I actually would have loved to say that my career is an output of careful planning, but the truth is that it's not. You know, during my MBA, you know, I had starry eyes and, you know, I had plans of starting my career in the FMCG space because that's supposed to be the best training ground. Then I wanted to move on to the big tech giants and eventually starting on my own. The modern industry I was very sure I didn't want to be part of was BFSI.
00:01:56
Speaker
And here I am, 20 years after my post-grad, working in the BFSI space, the only common thread in my career plans and my career reality is marketing. So my career actually has been an output of a mix of the lemons that life has thrown at me and the amount of lemonade I've made from them.
00:02:23
Speaker
My summer placement was with Electrolux, which was the Swedish consumer durables giant. They made me a pre-treatment offer, which was the best thing that could happen to an MBA graduate. And on my day one, I was really hoping that I'm going to start working on advertising, and I'll talk to my agencies, and I'll create this fabulous communication. But the first year of my career, I ended up selling direct-cooled refrigerators in South Delhi.
00:02:52
Speaker
Okay.
Challenges in Sales and Brand Management
00:02:53
Speaker
And can I ask you, are you a deli, are you a deli kid? Did you grow up in Delhi? Yes, yes, I'm completely a deli kid through and through. And you know, being in sales and I did that the first one year, it was actually a very, very tough place for a woman. No, because this was sales for consumer
00:03:10
Speaker
People were not used to talking to women. They didn't want to talk to you. Even if you would go and sell them something and would go collect a cheque, they would say, they didn't want to talk to you. But honestly, and that wouldn't happen till the time
00:03:30
Speaker
you know, my boss or my mentor would go and meet them. And for me, you know, I honestly completely hated it, if I can be honest with you. And luckily for me, I moved on to a product management role, which I did for two years. Got married, my husband was based in Mumbai, and that's the reason why I'm here. And of course, I had to look for another job when I came here. And that's when I joined VIP luggage in a brand management role.
00:03:58
Speaker
And that was really my first foray into brand management. I realized then and there that this is what I want to keep doing for the rest of my life. This is amazing what I love. I mean, so quick, quick nugget of insight and wisdom for all the B-School students are listening to us that, you know, like I pass it from M.D.I. Gurgaon. I don't know if you know this. But, but same story. You know, when I was passing out, I thought
00:04:28
Speaker
But the first job obviously with GE was, you know, Jao credit card. So suddenly from the dream that I had, it came crashing down to people, you know, turning it down and saying credit card. Because credit card is probably the toughest to sell, right? Everybody has 20 of those and nobody wants to pay for it and so on and so forth.
00:04:45
Speaker
So for all the B-school students, that's what you're saying. Completely, completely unexpected because you know, when you're learning marketing, right, you know, you are so seeped into David Acker and Kotlow and, you know, and you feel that right from day one, you are going to be the king or the queen of marketing communication. And honestly, is very, very different.
00:05:13
Speaker
So I was saying that, you know, moving on from VIP, and this is where, you know, again, another bout of reality hits. I was with VIP for about, you know,
International Experience and Return to India
00:05:28
Speaker
two and a half years. And it was in 2006, where I actually wanted to join Laurier, which was my dream company. And I interviewed with them, I received the job offer.
00:05:40
Speaker
But then, you know, as John Lennon says, life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans. At the same time, my husband received an offer from Singapore. And, you know, what happens is that when two ambitious people are really working towards their careers, you know, one has to make choices as a family. And, and we chose Singapore. And it was then, you know, of course, I had to give up my L'Oreal dream.
00:06:07
Speaker
But then, you know, my career took a very interesting turn because I started working for the government of Singapore with the tourism board. So, and from there, I, you know, I moved on to another really fun travel brand, which was Lonely Planet. I don't know if you've heard of that, or you remember that. But it was the last word in travel editorial. And to me, it was such a fantastically romantic brand to be part of, you know, I just, I just absolutely loved
00:06:36
Speaker
driving the marketing strategy for that brand. So my journey actually was very interesting because I was talking to the same travel customer whether I was marketing luggage or I was marketing the entire country like Singapore or I was marketing travel editorials. It was really the same travel customer I was talking to and it was great fun. And that is when I had my daughter
00:07:05
Speaker
And I then moved on to, I took a break for a year and then I moved on to entertainment, to worldwide, where I spent three years marketing entertainment channels for BBC. I wasn't part of news vertical. I was part of, you know, lifestyle, kids, entertainment and drama. Those were the channels that I was managing across Asia.
00:07:30
Speaker
And then, you know, I mean, and that was that was again, a fabulous experience. And then I moved on to handling the marketing of a museum with Marina Bay Sands. And then moved back to India, where, you know, my husband moved back, I moved back with him. And that's when I actually joined my first BFSI company, which was IDFC bank.
00:07:51
Speaker
I joined them as a brand, moved up to CMO. I've been with them for five years and I have just very recently joined Future Jindraali and here I am. And you know, it's actually interesting, you know, when I was, you know, thinking about all of this has been a while since I've really thought about my entire journey since I am I. But, you know, it's interesting, you know, there's a famous Chinese saying,
00:08:18
Speaker
which life opens the doors, but you must enter by yourself. So many times actually in my career, I thought I would have to give up. You know, marketing you would appreciate is a very culture driven function. Absolutely. That came in my way when I was looking for a job in a new culture, which was in Singapore,
Balancing Career and Family
00:08:41
Speaker
right? What was an Indian trying to market? You know, what was an Indian doing trying to market Singapore?
00:08:48
Speaker
across the world, right? A lot of people asked me that question, but I persisted and in fact, I had three job offers at that time and I actually chose Singapore Tourism Board. I was very lucky. Similarly, when I had my daughter in Singapore in a country where there was absolutely no family support, I genuinely thought that I'm going to need to give up my career.
00:09:17
Speaker
But again, I persisted. And in fact, when I was ready to come back to the job market after a year, one of the things I got my job at DDC worldwide was because I had a one year old and one of the key channels was a preschooler channel. And we felt that my mother's instincts are going to come handy. So I mean, and many, many such instances, I mean, the day that I had my interview with IDFC,
00:09:44
Speaker
You wouldn't have at the same day my daughter fell ill. She didn't have to badly ill. And it came to a point where I had to make a choice between going for the interview or taking care of my daughter. Right? And you can imagine how tough that choice is. Absolutely. So, you know, I mean, I did something which a lot of people have unheard of. I actually took her to the doctor.
00:10:11
Speaker
The doctor had a bed in his room. I took my paper along and I left my daughter there for two hours. And I said, look, I need to get the interview done. Please take care of my daughter because there's nobody at home. My husband was traveling. So there's nobody at home. And I can't trust just my helper with my daughter, such a fever. Please take care of her. And I ran out of the door before he could even react.
00:10:39
Speaker
Can I ask how old is your daughter? She is 11 now. 11. Yeah, so she was actually, you know, I mean... So, here's the thing. So, here's the thing. When she is, I think, 18 or 20, if I get to meet her ever, I'll tell her that, you know, she's a doctor.
00:11:00
Speaker
So coming back to serious conversation with you guys, in the last 10 minutes that I've spoken to you, you know, you come across as somebody who's super, can I say positive? And you know what I'm saying? Like you grab opportunities that come your way, even when there is adversity, like, you know, your daughter was on bail and you had to take a choice, make a choice. And you seem to have taken that up.
00:11:22
Speaker
And life seems to be offering you a lucky break, right? For BBC when you said that they liked the fact that you had a one-year-old daughter. So tell me what is your take on luck and spotting opportunities for yourself as an individual? You know, Saurabh, like I said, going back to the Chinese saying that I was saying, life opens up, you must enter by yourself.
Key Success Factors and Skills for Marketeers
00:11:46
Speaker
And that's really been my motto throughout. Life has been very, very kind, very grateful for the breaks and the opportunities that I've got. But I think there's also a grit that one needs to have to persist. And life can open those doors, but you have to enter by yourself. And I think with God's grace, those doors have been opened and I have managed to enter.
00:12:16
Speaker
When you pass out from the IMI, your batch size would have been, let's say, 50, 100. I don't know how many people pass out with you when you pass out. 120. 120, right. And out of those 120, I do not know how many of them went on to become, you know, CMOs at largest companies like IDFC to start with, and then obviously, so generally. At least in my batch of 120 people from MDI, we were 120 people as well. Not more than five are
00:12:42
Speaker
at leadership levels. So what did you do different that, you know, allowed you to become a CMO? And what did they not, you know what I'm saying? Like, what is your secret sauce? You know, for me, it's really has been about taking life as it comes, you know, I've been one of those people who were just so hung up on the kind of jobs and the kind of industries I want to be part of.
00:13:08
Speaker
I don't think I would have reached where I am. I honestly think I still have a very long way to go, by the way. This is just the beginning. And I have reached the top. I'm on my way there. But yes, with God's grace, I have a leadership position which comes with its own set of responsibilities, of course. But I think really, if I have to really look back, I think it was
00:13:38
Speaker
It was a mix of grit, determination, accepting life as it comes, accepting the roles as they come, and commitment. That is really what kind of kept me going.
00:13:59
Speaker
Who are your top three or four people that you knock on the doors of if you have a tough marketing problem to work on? Like in my case, for example, I go to my sister and she's also an MBA from B school and she's got a phone and so on and so forth. So I call her and say, you know, who are your top three or four people that you go to when you are stuck on a problem?
00:14:21
Speaker
I don't have to go very far. I don't have to knock many doors. I talk to my husband. So my husband actually, you know, is a star advertiser. Until recently, he was the CEO of Publix's Communications and he was managing, you know, 12-13 agencies, creative, digital media, etc.
00:14:47
Speaker
PR, etc. And he left his role last year when the entrepreneur bunk bit him. He's now starting off on his own. But really, if I need advice on anything at all, he's the first person that I go to because he's seen life from the other side.
00:15:09
Speaker
We are yin, yin, yang, and very complimentary to each other in that sense. I'm in marketing. He's in advertising, right? So we both kind of understand each other's pains and each other's challenges. So he's really the wind beneath my wings. So I think I know who to send my CV to in a couple of months. But apart from your husband, who else do you reach out to? Mentors, colleagues?
00:15:39
Speaker
juniors, seniors, classmates, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. So, uh, so typically my mentors, I've been very, very lucky to have some of the best bosses, uh, in the world who really groomed me, who really made me who I am today as a career person. And, uh, and, you know, when in doubt, uh, I reach out to them, I'm, I'm still in touch with my first boss.
00:16:03
Speaker
You know when I you know, I had started work now 20 years ago and still in touch with him and every time I reach out to him, you know He will he will always make the time of day to advise me to guide me you know and and that pattern has has Carried on you know throughout my entire career. In fact, I'm spoiled for choice because I have such lovely You know marketing
00:16:31
Speaker
bosses and mentors who have really, who've always been there every time I have approached them. Got it. Cool. So moving on, Ruchika, I just want to understand that, you know, you joined future Janwali, this beginning of the year, right? I mean, towards January, February, something like that? Yes, that's right. So, so tell me, movement is joined in about a month, you know, we went into lockdown. So how was the experience? How did you, you know,
00:17:00
Speaker
ease into the role? How did you manage to speak to your team?
Remote Management and Evolving CMO Role
00:17:04
Speaker
How was the experience for you talking to a team on a remote first basis? Yeah, it was actually quite challenging because you're right. I had just joined in January and the lockdown happened in March. In fact, even before the lockdown, we had started work from home by mid-March.
00:17:27
Speaker
I was lucky that I got about a month and a half to just kind of settle in, just understand the lay of the land, understand who my team is. But then I think what we did as an organization, as a whole, and especially in my function as well, was that these are very, very proactive. We have a very strong business continuity plan in place. We just made sure that, of course, these were unprecedented times, but we just reacted very, very quickly.
00:17:57
Speaker
So our management, for example, was having meetings on a daily basis. Entire management would get together, nut out things, understand what needs to be done, help each other. And I took deep out of that and did exactly the same with my team. I would have a deep meeting with the team. We would do it on Microsoft Teams. And it's just amazing how quickly we adapted to the situation.
00:18:24
Speaker
And while it was challenging, I think what also happened was that people figured that this is here to stay for a while. It's not tempting. And people knew.
00:18:35
Speaker
that they had to get used to this new normal to really be effective in their jobs. So they took very quickly, they tried their best. And we created an environment where people were constantly helping each other, whether those were tech issues, whether those were issues of developing communication. And I'm anyway the kind of person who will always go out and talk to the entire team if there is an issue that they're facing, because a good idea can come from anywhere.
00:19:01
Speaker
If I'm struggling with a communications idea.
00:19:05
Speaker
I even talked to my PR person, I talked to my product person because sometimes it's common sense, right? So I kind of take everybody with me and I think that really helped us a lot and made us very cohesive as a team even today. I mean, it's been two and a half, three months into the lockdown. Even today, I have a meeting every alternate day with my team. In fact, I start the day with that.
00:19:32
Speaker
Uh, because I want to be able to understand what are the challenges they are facing? How can I help them? You know, how can I have them prioritize? How can I help them? Uh, you know, uh, you know, if they're stuck somewhere, can I step in or if I'm facing a challenge, you know, uh, we brainstorm and we find out, you know, ways around it.
00:19:52
Speaker
So, in fact, that was my next question and maybe you can ease into that. So, what is a typical day like for a top marketer? Let's say from the time you start working at whatever 7, 8, 9, whatever time you start looking at, what is the typical day like for you? Yeah. So, on the onset, basically, as a CM over here, I handle a little more than just marketing. I handle marketing digital assets. I handle the sales call center.
00:20:19
Speaker
CSR, product innovation, and two-scale panels as well. And really, you know, you're talking about, you know, a typical day for a marketeer. This is what new at CMOs and consumer-centric customers and, you know, consumer-centric companies are doing. It's no longer just about communication. They're expected to deliver value across the entire business. That was to me, you know, a huge opportunity and something that
00:20:47
Speaker
that I was very keen on exploring, so I decided to give this job a go. Now, the leadership position in marketing is challenging, right? The roles and expectations as a marketeer has completely changed over time. Unfortunately, many years, what was happening was that marketing was reduced to just pure communications role, right? Now, it has shifted from a communication specialist to a consumer specialist.
00:21:14
Speaker
The consumer is evolving, and the marketeer has to evolve with the consumer. So what does it mean? This means that you have to be constantly in touch with new trends that are shaping the industry. Consumer behavior, you need to understand technology and how technology can give a better customer experience. You need to know how to balance between paid, owned, earned media to deliver your messages.
00:21:40
Speaker
top of all the emerging digital spaces that people are connecting with, it's an ever-changing platform. And very importantly, at a leadership position, it means having strong people skills to work with community members and agencies. This doesn't include some of the other roles that I play here. And to be able to manage that, I need to have a sound knowledge of products of competition, what are the gaps,
00:22:10
Speaker
need to understand regulations as it's a highly regulated industry and all of this needs to happen while driving a culture of innovation. Also, you know, as a CMO, you need to keep an eye on the numbers, especially for me, because I'm on the fails channels as well. I'm on the fails channels and I need to keep an eye on the numbers and ensure that there is operational efficiency for our content. And all of this has to be therefore squeezed into a typical day.
00:22:38
Speaker
So, you know, it's quite hectic. I mean, I typically work, you know, 10 to 12 hours a day on an average, but it's, it's, it's all pretty satisfying. You know, so besides the regular activity that you would expect from a marketeer, right, which is what I spoke of above, at this level, it's really, really important to make sure that you are a good mentor, a guide, and you help troubleshooting.
00:23:03
Speaker
Right. So I usually start my day with meeting with my team members, understand what's going on, you know, and, and, you know, give them advice. Um, also, uh, leadership position, you need to be in touch with the business and you need to make sure that you spend some time with the leadership team, which is challenging, uh, you know, in, in, in a situation in lockdown situation like this. Uh, you need to find out ways and means to connect with the leadership team to understand where the business is headed.
00:23:32
Speaker
How can you support them? Right. Also, there are constant board meetings, investor meetings, so you need to prep for that. Right. I also like to spend some time with my agencies, not just to give them briefs, but also to kind of brainstorm with them on better ideas, you know, just to kind of throw around ideas, because sometimes, you know, you find gems that come out of such
00:23:59
Speaker
interactions, right? It's a very biotic relationship with an agency and it's a very important one. And besides all of this, obviously you need to keep aside some time to read, to understand what's happening, you know, in the industry, to keep up with some interesting work that other brands have done. So, you know, really, it's a pretty full day, but I'm very satisfying at the end of it.
00:24:23
Speaker
Got it. So let me ask an easy question to get off the tension. So talk to me about cover the distance and talk to me specifically from the perspective that you did a large part of it.
00:24:37
Speaker
sitting at home, right? I mean, then we would have thought of the campaign to the time it came out, most of the team would have been, you know, in various parts of their homes and cities, and they would not have access to each other. So just talk to me about from the time you thought about it till the time it came out, and then what were some lessons and whatever you want to talk about it. Okay, so let me try and break down this question in parts, right? We launched cover the distance a week after the lockdown was announced.
00:25:08
Speaker
At that point of time, Indians were struggling, in fact, not even at that point of time, even now.
Marketing Strategies During Lockdown
00:25:14
Speaker
Indians are struggling with the COVID-19 pandemic and its fallouts on our economy, our working situations, our jobs, our health, our lifestyle. We had done our research and our research told us that a whopping 88% of Indians were actually deeply worried about their physical, mental or financial health in the current context.
00:25:36
Speaker
And that was the new reality that we were all living in. And unfortunately, it was a reality filled with uncertainty and negativity. Now, as a brand offering health insurance products that treatment for pandemics like COVID-19, our focus at that point of time was to use moment marketing to really have a positive brand conversation amongst the plethora of negativity that was around us.
00:26:03
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, the campaign insight actually came from human truth, right? What we realized was that, you know, hardworking, ambitious Indians were constantly running on a treadmill to achieve their goals, right? Everybody was working, they were managing their responsibilities, right? And in this quest for moving ahead, people had started to grow apart from their own friends and families and were not even realizing it.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah. So the brand saw the lockdown and social distancing as an opportunity to connect with loved ones once again, and to recover some of this lost ground. So what we really wanted to do was to show people that there is a silver lining to social distancing. And this is a great opportunity to refuel the relationships. So we did a video that focused on leveraging this time to connect with loved ones. And really, our key message was in the time of social distancing,
00:27:02
Speaker
It was time to cover the distance. Everything about this campaign and you spoke about the lockdown, right? Everything about this campaign, the conceptualization, creation, launch was done completely at home. It was done through multiple mediums. So our agency partner, What's Your Problem? and us, we co-created this campaign post multiple brainstorming sessions.
00:27:29
Speaker
And during one of those sessions, you know, we hit upon the idea of cover the distance. And of course, you would appreciate that the campaign was time sensitive, as we wanted them not as soon as possible after the lockdown, right? Speed of market. But how, you know, one go about creating a video when you can't really go out and shoot. And you know, how do you get a view of when they're stuck at home? You know, they don't have access to recording studios, right? How do you manage this entire process?
00:27:57
Speaker
And I must say that our creative agency, WYP, worked really hard, found very creative solutions to manage these challenges. So our video entirely used stock footage. We got a view on, you know, through just some people who we knew and who were willing and able to record at home. Right. Also, the situation was changing every few hours because people who didn't want to even
00:28:25
Speaker
allow campaigns that spoke about COVID-19 in a very upfront manner. And we had to manage that as well. So we had to adapt on the goal. So I think flexibility, perseverance, collaboration with our creative agency really kept us all going. We put all our energies into getting this campaign off the ground. And honestly, it just took a week from conceptualization to rock.
00:28:56
Speaker
Wow, that's fast. I mean, even without the lockdown, if you can track a campaign in a week, that's super fast and you did it in a lockdown. So that's like super cool. Yeah, I mean, it was, you know, we were up for, I don't know how many nights. I mean, I say we, it was my team and my creative agency, you know, hats off to them to really manage this for us. But yes, you know, it was a very quick turnaround and we were very pleased with the results.
Post-COVID Marketing Predictions and Consumer Changes
00:29:26
Speaker
Got it. So tell me related to this campaign and the lockdown and COVID. So what would change for you as a marketeer after the COVID pandemic is behind us? You may talk about the consumers being changing or the new emerging channels coming up and whatever you may choose. So question essentially is what would change in this post-COVID world for marketeers?
00:29:53
Speaker
Well, you know, COVID is honestly not just a health crisis. It's a Black Swan event, right? It has wide implications across multiple dimensions, not just limited to loss of human life, not just limited to severe economic contraction, and that goes on a global basis. You know, there's restructuring of businesses, but also there is an intrinsic reshaping of human behavior and consumer preferences.
00:30:21
Speaker
And we have seen this in the insurance sector as well. And let me answer your question by looking at, therefore, the various pillars of marketing and how a change in consumer preference is going to impact all of them. So I think as a starting point, the most important being your product mix. So Indians by nature are savers. We have amongst the highest savings rates in the world, and we all know that.
00:30:49
Speaker
We all say for rainy day, we accumulate wealth, we are industrious, we are hardworking, and we invest in low yield but safe products like FDs, life insurance endowment, etc. But oddly, we don't spend money on protection products. Health insurance, which I believe has almost guaranteed usability in urban India, has sadly always been characterized by low penetration and limited demand. However,
00:31:17
Speaker
The COVID-19 situation has turned this on its head. People now are slowly waking up to realize that health is also an asset that needs financial protection. That's a good one. That's a good one. I never heard it from somebody. That's a good one. Yeah. And we are seeing that. I mean, the search for health insurance is going up. People want insurance products, especially that cover COVID-19. So that we have already started seeing.
00:31:47
Speaker
a positive inclination for health insurance. However, on the other hand, the largest selling product in the general insurance category, which is motor insurance, is declining. Now, motor insurance is a compulsory product. You have to take it when you buy away. Obviously, there's a huge dependency on the auto industry. We all know the struggles of the industry. In fact, I was looking at some data, and would you know how many cars were sold in the month of April?
00:32:15
Speaker
in India. So I happen to know, right, zero and zero. Exactly. So there was zero cars that was sold in the month of April. Right. And you would imagine the impact of that on the motor insurance industry. I think there's going to be a turnaround in this sector post the lockdown. Right. What's going to happen is that, you know, once the lockdown is lifted across India,
00:32:41
Speaker
Of course, we are still being lifted across, you know, certain parts of India. People are not going to want to travel by public transport. Absolutely. Yeah. And therefore, there's going to be a demand for, you know, two wheelers for, you know, entry-level value-based four wheelers. The demand for these products is going to go up. And I therefore feel that there's going to be a resurrection for the motor insurance industry.
00:33:08
Speaker
Uh, as you know, these, these behaviors start to establish, right? You know, if you look at, uh, if you look at one of the largest, uh, growing products for general, which was travel insurance now is non-existent, right? Um, I don't think it's going to be a long, long time till people will have the confidence to travel again. And this, according to me is going to be, to be impacted for at least another two years. Uh, you know, if,
00:33:39
Speaker
Yeah. And, and therefore, you know, with all of these changes, I think the insurance sector will have to therefore redefine the product mix and the business mix as a result of 90. Besides product, you know, I see that there's going to be a huge change in, in distribution right now.
Digital Transformation and Media Shifts
00:33:58
Speaker
Our industry is largely dependent on agents who are literally conducting their business through face-to-face interaction with customers.
00:34:06
Speaker
And now, obviously, you know, there is an absence of that, right? People are very wary of meeting new people. Yeah, they will, you know, insurance companies will have to turn to tools that therefore allow for digital prospecting, whether that's for selling, whether that's for booking policies, whether that's for collecting payments, right? So digitization of the sales process, according to me is going to be key. And the brands that are going to move fast will therefore have a competitive advantage.
00:34:35
Speaker
if they manage to make this happen. A customer service, I think that is going to start seeing a very huge shift towards self-servicing non-assisted platforms, whether those are through apps, whether those are through tools, whatever. And therefore, the brands that make this seamless give a good customer experience are going to thrive.
00:34:58
Speaker
Right. Having said that, you know, I truly believe that the human need to talk to another person to solve issues is not going to go on. Right. So there are, you know, call centers will have to work, will have to be fully equipped. Right. And, and, you know, and we realize this, I mean, then, I mean, we did face a challenge of getting call center executives to work from home when it happened.
00:35:24
Speaker
But we did it possible and they were up and running in three, four days time after the lockdown was announced. So once work from home and work from home is here to stay, work from home will continue, technology is certainly going to keep up. Similarly, if you look at things like the media landscape, I think the media landscape is going to change permanently.
00:35:51
Speaker
You look at print and cinema. I think people are going to suffer because people are going to take a while to get back to watching movies in a cinema hall. On the other hand, social distancing has led to online social connectivity. So you see evidence of visits of social media sites have increased by 19%
00:36:13
Speaker
There's a high increase even for those above 35 years. Typically you would see 18 to 35 is your key target audience for media, but you're seeing even a spike for above 35 years. Facebook and WhatsApp continue their domination, but you've seen platforms like ByteDance and TikTok, they're not far behind. There's a 32% growth in visits to news sites and 11% growth in visit to health sites.
00:36:40
Speaker
Digital consumption on mobile phones have increased by three hours. Online gaming is seeing a 49% increase in total minute spend. I mean, all this is telling us that now consumers are more on digital than ever before. And I believe that they're not going to change post-COVID-19. This is here to say. Consumers are now more on digital than ever before. And I think there's going to be a permanent phenomena. It is not going to change post-COVID-19.
00:37:11
Speaker
So tell me, for a minute, let's say that you are not a marketeer anymore and you are an entrepreneur and assume that you are going to help, let's say your husband in figuring out the next steps. So what business opportunities do you see as an informed, educated individual in this post-COVID world? Talk to me about the broad, broad story. You know, as an entrepreneur, I think
00:37:38
Speaker
the faster you respond to new market needs, the more nimble you are, the better you are going to do. See, a lot of large organizations have legacy organization structures, they have legacy IT systems, large overhead cost, and it will therefore take them a while to reduce costs in a scenario where top line is under pressure, where it is in every single industry.
00:38:04
Speaker
right therefore for entrepreneurs you know if they really really focus on the on the new needs that are developing in the market you know they are going to they are going to end up being on top right so you know so really I mean if you look at you know some of the new needs which you are seeing just in our category
00:38:30
Speaker
You are seeing that a lot of people want to look for insurance that protects them against coronavirus. You are seeing that there is a lot of nervousness in the current economy about job losses. People are now also concerned over data security.
00:38:56
Speaker
in the community, right? Now, these are all huge opportunities for brands to develop category breaking destructive propositions that are driven. And, you know, I truly believe that brands that do well and, you know, those brands could be, you know, led by entrepreneurs, but brands that do well in this space will firmly get positioned as innovative and clutter breaking
00:39:26
Speaker
And it allow them to break the chain of predatory pricing, which is a huge issue that the industry is struggling with today. It is no longer to be about price. The more you respond to market needs, the more loyal people are going to be to you because you are genuinely addressing needs that have now come.
00:39:51
Speaker
Got it. Cool. So again, super-invite. And I must say, the way you rattle off data, I mean, I will surprise kids and tell them how can you remember all that. But clearly, there is a magic to what you're doing. That's why you are up there, and other people aren't so super impressed by that. Tough question, if, let's say, you were to hire somebody to replace you as a marketing
00:40:17
Speaker
future generality or even for IDFC, for that matter, for example, what kind of skills and tenets would you look at in that person? So, you know, I am going to look for somebody who is a learner, who's always learning, because I think that is something that has helped me.
Learning and Skills in Modern Marketing
00:40:39
Speaker
And somebody who's always learning is
00:40:42
Speaker
is going to be somebody who's humble enough to first say that, look, I don't know everything. I can't know everything, right? But I'm willing to learn. Who has a learner mindset to me is, I mean, that is the first criteria that I look for in any market here at any level. It doesn't matter whether it's a leadership position or not. So a learner mindset I think is absolutely critical.
00:41:08
Speaker
Also, the ability to adapt, the ability to be agile, the ability to understand that things are moving very, very quickly. And if you don't really keep up, you are going to be, you will get completely wiped out.
00:41:35
Speaker
And this is true for marketeers at any point of time. And for today, it's even more relevant. I was attending a seminar. Those were the days when seminars were still happening. And this was being run by a professor from Harvard. And he said a statistic that will always remain in my head.
00:42:04
Speaker
He said that as a marketeer, if you don't reinvent yourself every two years, you can kiss goodbye to your job. Yeah. So, I mean, and really, I mean, when he said that, I was like, that is, it really hit home. It is the truth of today.
00:42:29
Speaker
So tell me, if I am somebody who's got five years of experience in the marketing industry, I could be working on any product or category. What do I learn today so that I am relevant tomorrow? A, and B, if I want to become who you are, for example, like a head of marketing at a large company, what do I do? So two sets of two parts of the company. I would say two words.
00:42:59
Speaker
and data. Data is power in today's world. The more you get familiar with it, the more you understand how to use it and how to impact business decisions using data, the more successful you are going to be as a marketer. Because a marketer today is supposed to impact business and not just communication.
00:43:27
Speaker
Right. So, so data is absolutely critical is of course, digital and you know that, that you don't need to say, I mean, that's, that's something which, you know, everybody knows, right. Also changing very, very quickly. Right. There are just so many new apps that are coming up, consumer behavior towards these are changing. Right. So you will have to constantly keep up with that.
00:43:55
Speaker
Having said that, there is one important set of marketing that a lot of people forget. And people forget whether they are at the starting of their career or whether they're at the top. A lot of people actually forget the consumer. It sounds completely non-intuitive. You would feel that as a marketer, the starting point will be the consumer. But what happens in reality is that
00:44:25
Speaker
You are under pressure to show ROIs. You are under pressure to deliver campaigns really quickly. You are under pressure to do what the business wants you to do a lot of time. What happens is that you lose sight of the consumer when you do this.
00:44:47
Speaker
Right. And I think that is the one thing that I will tell all marketeers that look, it doesn't matter. You are the window of the consumer into the organization.
00:45:00
Speaker
Whether your business people like to hear it or not, whether your leadership likes to hear it or not, there is a consumer truth out there. It is your job to make sure the truth is represented properly to the people so that the right business decisions can be.
00:45:20
Speaker
Got it. How do you actually get to know the consumer? I mean, I understand that you have a planning head in your house, but how do you go about learning about the consumer? You know, there are various ways of doing that. You know, what is it? I mean, the starting point of marketing is really about understanding consumer behavior and culture, right? And there are ways that you can learn about culture and you can learn about the consumers, you know,
00:45:47
Speaker
you know, of course, there are tools which are available, which are your marketing research tools, their social listening, right? All of those are, I'm assuming everybody is going to do, right? But you don't only learn from this, you know, you learn from reading books, you learn from understanding what is happening in the culture, you learn from, you know, even watching movies,
00:46:16
Speaker
you learn from just talking to people, right? I mean, me actually, I get a lot of inspiration just talking to people, you know, and I will be talking to people, you know, who I meet at parties, I'll be talking to that, you know, to the Uber driver who's going to drop me home, you know, I'll be talking to my maid to understand what's happening in your life, right? But what it allows for is that it allows you to get
00:46:42
Speaker
Facets of what is really happening in people's life. What are the challenges they're going through? How are they solving them? What are people thinking? Right? And this, you know, this understanding of psychology of what's really in their minds really contributes towards your overall learning of marketing.
00:47:01
Speaker
Got it. Super inside. So, Ruchika, I just have like three, four more questions to ask you as we close. In the previous one, you mentioned that you even you draw inspiration for even from even films and Bollywood. Do you want to talk to me about some other unconventional ways where you draw inspiration? Like one of our guests says that, you know, what he does is that he stands at the shop floor office
00:47:27
Speaker
manufacturing plant to hear what those workers are talking to each other about. What unconventional ways do you use to get inspiration for yourself? You know, Sarab, for me, I think I draw a lot of inspiration just by talking to people. And I think I mentioned that in my previous answer as well. And that really, I don't know if it's conventional or unconventional, but
00:47:54
Speaker
I really learn a lot by just having those conversations or even just by observing people. Even if you observe people at a party, for example, and you observe the kind of conversations that they are having, you can feel the pulse of where culture is moving.
00:48:18
Speaker
Right. And, and that, you know, those are some of the insights that I then kind of take forward. Right. So for example, you know, when we were to, when I had joined IDFC bank, I was still the head of brand at that point of time. And, you know, we were looking at, at a campaign for, for ourselves, the launch campaign for ourselves. Right. And of course, we had done a lot of research and, you know, all of that.
00:48:45
Speaker
But when I was talking to people about banking experiences and things like that, because obviously, when you meet people, they'll be like, oh, you work for a bank.
Consumer Focus and Real-World Marketing Challenges
00:48:55
Speaker
Then you start talking about banking experiences. I started noticing a common thread. And that common thread was that people were deeply unhappy with their banking experience. And the research told us what it had to. In fact, the research also corroborated that.
00:49:14
Speaker
But the insight that we really got was that, you know, a lot of banks out there are trying to be your pals, trying to be your, you know, hum saffar and, you know, and, you know, all of that, right? Huge promises.
00:49:32
Speaker
But the reality was that they were not able to deliver a good experience on the ground. And people were like, look, when I walk into a bank or when I reach out through digital sources, whether it's through the app or through the website or whatever it might be, I just need a simple experience. I just want to get in there and get out, right? Nobody wakes up on a Saturday morning to say, yeah, Raj, I'm banking.
00:50:01
Speaker
It's a chore, right? So, so, so people, and this I'm talking, of course, now things have improved, but I'm talking, you know, you know, six years ago, right? Where, where a lot of people were very unhappy with their current experience. And really that became the premise of our communication campaign that we launched, which was the banking somehow campaign, which was ready to say that, you know, we are not going to make tall promises to you.
00:50:30
Speaker
We are here to do simple banking. You get in there, do your stuff, get out there, we will support you. We will make sure that you have whatever you need to do things fast, simple, simply, efficiently. And that is really where the insight came from.
00:50:49
Speaker
So tell me if I told you that I wanted to throw open a marketing challenge to our listeners and there could be like your extended brain of sorts. Do you have like one big marketing problem that you want to solve and you want somebody to like rag their brains on? That's an interesting one. Yes, of course. Of course I do.
00:51:11
Speaker
So, I think if I'm not mistaken, most listeners are millennials, I would imagine. Now, insurance as a category typically has no attraction with millennials. In fact, most millennials believe that this is something that you look at at a later stage of life.
00:51:32
Speaker
you know, when I get married or, you know, when I have kids is when I'm going to start looking at insurance. When they settle down, the line that I get often is once I settle down, I look at these serious things like insurance. Bang on, bang on. Now, my challenge is as an insurance brand, right, what can we do to connect better with millennials?
00:51:54
Speaker
What products should we look at? How would millennials like to buy them? How should we communicate to them? As a brand, we be relevant to the largest segment of population there is in India.
00:52:13
Speaker
got this and uh and they're free to choose whatever channel and whatever absolutely and you know and marketing like i said doesn't have to be communications right no absolutely so so starting from you know what products what distribution channels right uh what experiences where can i come and find you
00:52:33
Speaker
Right. The whole world is a oyster. It could be as simple as, you know, doing a new app that allows consumers to look at the current in a different manner and then start looking at, you know, not consuming it and buying it. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Got this. So apart from this is like, if I told you that, you know, you were going to be going back to IMI now after 20 years and becoming a faculty there.
00:53:01
Speaker
What kind of questions would you, what would you sort of talk to them if there was like a master class, marketing one-on-one master class? What would you change in the way the marketing is taught at IMI right now? I think our professors did a fabulous job of teaching marketing to us and it would be very, very hard to beat what they have done. But I think what I would just add to what they already do
00:53:29
Speaker
is that I would give a sense of ground reality. Yeah, because like we had started discussing at the beginning of our conversation, you know, the ground reality, especially when you pass out of a B school is very, very different, right?
Future Insights and Influencer Marketing
00:53:46
Speaker
The kind of skills that you require to survive, forget about crime, are very, very different, right? You need to be able to, you know,
00:53:57
Speaker
understand business problems and use marketing to solve business problems. You just don't get in there and start creating fab, glamorous advertising campaigns. So I think I would possibly do a session which is just seeped into ground reality that guys, when you get out there, this is what you will have to do. Brace yourselves.
00:54:27
Speaker
The plot is not pretty. I think you will be among the most hated people on the campus because you will bust the dreams even before they get out. I think it's better that I bust the dreams before they go out in the real world.
00:54:44
Speaker
Then the dreams get busted. I know what they do. So last two questions. One is, tell me what is your take on and it's a little controversial in terms of questions. What is your take on all these girls and boys next doors suddenly becoming influencers of sorts and dictating marketing efforts by a lot of these consumer companies?
00:55:11
Speaker
There's been a lot of chatter about influencer marketing lately. About a year ago, it was a surefire way of getting a brand message out there. Not anymore. So I think, is there merit in influencer marketing? Yes, absolutely there is. But you have to be careful about the choice of influencer. The influencer has to have the same values as your brand, has to really connect with
00:55:39
Speaker
the story and the message that you're putting out there, it shouldn't be a force fit and it has to be authentic. I think a lot of times where brands lose out is when it's very clearly a force fit just because here's a celebrity who has a lot of followers
00:55:58
Speaker
So, if briefs start with that, then it's the wrong starting point. So, do you fight with your audiences often on that? Quick, like side-passing? No, absolutely I do. Absolutely I do. Have I done influencer marketing? Yes. In fact, part of my cover the distance, the second stage of my cover the distance was influencer marketing, but we were very, very careful about choosing the right influencer.
00:56:25
Speaker
who were doing sessions which really resonated with our message. It was very seamless in terms of the message that we were trying to put out. So for example, cover the distance was really about connecting with your loved ones, right? What we did in the first phase of the campaign, of course, was launch the video. In the second phase of the campaign, we got influences to do live sessions on our social media pages.
00:56:56
Speaker
created moments for families to come together and cover the distance. Even families were not really living together. We had somebody who would come in and teach kids how to make a simple dish for Mother's Day.
00:57:14
Speaker
So the father and the kids are in the kitchen whipping up something interesting for the mother. We had now in the current context with a lot of household health not being available, there's a lot of pressure on families especially to women to get into the kitchen and whip up meals. So we did an influencer session on how you can create a nice meal
00:57:40
Speaker
for your wife, even if you're an amateur cook, you don't have to be a cordon bleu cook. You have to be, you know, even if you know the very, very basics, right, we will teach you how to make very simple dishes, which you can, you know, do and give your wife a break. Right. We had dance sessions where, you know, friends came together from different parts of the world where, you know, they could learn the choreography together. So just examples. But, you know, the point I'm trying to make here is that
00:58:08
Speaker
It was thought through and brands who are very careful about making sure that it's seamless to their strategy, it makes a lot of sense. If it's not authentic, then you will be at the losing end of the state.
00:58:25
Speaker
Ruchika, last question and then I have one more plug for you. So last question is, where is Ruchika Burma headed in, say, the most treasured question of the world? Where do you see yourself in five years? Where is Ruchika would have been five years?
00:58:40
Speaker
Imagine if you'd asked me this question five years ago. I know, I know that was coming. I did not want to ask this question, but you started the conversation by saying, I mean, you started the saying that you are just at the beginning of your, you know, career, right? Even, even though you spent 20 years, you're saying that this is just the beginning for you. So where do you see yourself in the five, 10, like what could be that ultimate high field? Look, I've always taken life as it comes.
00:59:10
Speaker
And for me, uh, you know, I think, uh, as long, it doesn't matter where I am, which company I'm in. Um, it's just, if, you know, I think I will be doing what I was doing five years ago, which is learning, which is learning how to be relevant to today's consumers. And, and this has prompted me, do you think, do you do anything else apart from work? Like is there a serious hobby that you pursue apart from work?
00:59:40
Speaker
I used to play the piano, but I've unfortunately given that up because I've just not had the time to pursue it. But I love dancing and every time I get a chance to dance, whether it is to Bollywood or whether it is, I'm a recent dancer, so if I get a chance to practice,
01:00:06
Speaker
I just get down to it and do my thing. That's really my stress buster. Got this. Cool. So, I think, Ruchika, these are the questions I had. So, Ruchika, super interesting perspectives on what an insurance brand should do in the post-COVID world. If I were to tell you that, you know, insurance, so what do other brands, other categories do in the post-COVID scenario?
01:00:29
Speaker
So it doesn't matter what category that a brand belongs to. I think brands will be winners if they follow a five-point mantra. Number one, adaptability. So throw out the marketing plan that you had made at the beginning of the year and reassess the reality. Reassess the shift in consumer behavior. Reassess if your brand can genuinely fit into today's needs
01:00:56
Speaker
reassess what you will say, how will you package your message, and where would you find the relevant audiences to deliver these messages? Secondly, digital disruption. Brands have to constantly reinvent themselves to find a place in this new world. And I'd spoken about digitization of the sales process, but honestly, that's just a starting point. There's a great opportunity for brands to arm distribution with the right tools to enable digital prospecting,
01:01:25
Speaker
Uh, ensure agents get their voice heard and other distribution channels get their voice heard, even if they can't meet customers face to face and really think about the deployment of AI and machine running because I now AI and machine learning is going to be used less for predicting, you know, less for detecting and repairing, but more predicting and preventing and use AI that way. It will give you long tail benefits. The third is agility. To market a ski.
01:01:55
Speaker
So be nimble, right? You know, I mean, at Future Generali, you know, I had spoken about this at our business continuity process, you know, really consistent of initiatives that anything that we did, we did it so quickly. We did it even before the government announced the lockdown, right? And this allowed us to respond to our consumers when they needed us most. The fourth is empathy. If you are seen as opportunistic during this time, you are going to lose them.
01:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, you can't be you can't be tone deaf at this time. Brands that genuinely listen are reachable and go the extra mile to solve customer issues are really the brands that are going to win. Right? And and believe me, brands which are empathetic and are standing by their customers during this time will actually end the loyalty shifts later. Right? And last but not the least is innovation.
01:02:53
Speaker
Right. So I've spoken briefly about, you know, how insurance brands are developing, you know, category breaking disruptive propositions, right? And how innovation can work in your industry. Yeah. There are similar examples across various industries. I mean, if Louis Vuitton could make, you know, uh, uh, masks, uh, in there, right. And sanitizers, I mean, you know, uh, anything is possible, right? So, so, so there is always going to be a spark which is available to you.
01:03:22
Speaker
to be able to innovate. So, you know, I mean, we all know that the world is ever going to be the same again, right? So brands that embrace this redefine marketing strategies and consistently address consumer needs will actually be the ones that will end up creating preference in the program.
01:03:39
Speaker
That's a nice one. But thank you so much, Ruchika, for your time. It was great, great talking to you. I did not know that the journey from Delhi to Bombay via all these Singaporean countries could be this interesting. Thank you so much for your time. My pleasure, Sonam. Anytime. Thank you. So that was Ruchika Varma. Thank you so much for listening in. Do write to us and tell us how can we improve and do this show better. After all, we are a show for marketeers by marketeers. Thank you.
01:04:09
Speaker
You just heard the latest episode of the Marketing Clinic podcast. A show for marketeers by marketeers. The show was brought to you by C4E and the podium.