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Ep 1. Sanjay Mehta, Mirum
343 Plays2 years ago
In the very first episode of the Marketing Connect podcast, we speak to Sanjay Mehta, the co-founder and joint-CEO at Mirum India, one of the largest digital agencies in the country.
Listen in as Sanjay talks about his journey as an entrepreneur and his thesis on how the business of marketing ought to be!
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Transcript
Introduction to The Marketing Connect Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast, a show where we get up close and personal with some of the most celebrated marketeers in the country. We talk to them and discover the art and science of marketing. After all, we are a show for marketeers by marketeers. Listen in.
Guest Introduction: Sanjay Mehta
00:00:29
Speaker
This is the very first episode of the Marketing Connect Podcast and I couldn't have asked for a better guest than Sanjay Mehta. He is the co-founder and the joint CEO at Miram, one of India's leading digital agencies. Listen on.
Career Journey of Sanjay Mehta
00:00:44
Speaker
I'm Sanjay Mehta. I am currently a joint CEO at Miram.
00:00:50
Speaker
and Miram is a full services digital agency. We are about 11 years old now. We started out in 2009 and when we started it was called social wavelength and it was started out as originally as a social media agency but over the years it has evolved into more of a full services offering in the digital world.
00:01:14
Speaker
which includes service offerings and creative and media technology marketing automation and the works. 2014 we were acquired by WPP and 2015 we were sort of re-christened as Miram and made part of a global digital agency brand Miram. So we were there India
00:01:41
Speaker
part of the Miram family in the world. Other than that, I've been from a personal point of view, 33 years of work experience. We started out first 10 years, was in a hardcore electrical engineering kind of business.
00:01:57
Speaker
After that about roughly 10 years in a first e-commerce startup, which was called homeinear.com and that's when the whole journey into the internet-based businesses began and Post divesting out of that spent a couple of years as a professional working for a company called Compare Infobates limited in Delhi before starting social wavelength and current journey
00:02:26
Speaker
So, have been a digital professional for a while, one of the early people in this business and the journey continues. So,
Timing in Business Ventures
00:02:36
Speaker
the next question is, I mean, Abhke, both the ventures, they were essentially ahead of the time as in they were right before the peak for those two businesses started. So, was it by design? Was it by luck? And question for you essentially Sanjay is that, what do you think will help them stay ahead of the curve?
00:02:55
Speaker
in the time to come. So homeindia.com definitely we were we realized of course much later that we were a little ahead of time so you know essentially the idea whether it's for entrepreneurship or even from a marketing standpoint which is to some extent the subject matter of this article one tends to look at consumer behavior and the evolving
00:03:25
Speaker
technology going a little forward. I mean, what is there today is well established and everybody knows that. So, you're trying to see that what are going to be the next level of needs, requirements and how the society going to evolve, what kind of service requirements will be there.
00:03:41
Speaker
and how can I be perhaps playing a role in that evolution and being the one who will offer the services and hopefully convert it into a commercial opportunity for myself. So that's always been the view.
00:03:58
Speaker
And so in the case of Home India, that sort of realization had come when we started out an e-commerce business based out of India and selling products to, you know, initially NRIs and then the world, whoever in the world wanted an India flavor. And it was good and you know, there was always a sense that
00:04:19
Speaker
a much larger base is imminent that it should happen just around the corner but maybe you know as we are talking about maybe we were little ahead maybe we were not just ahead in terms of the being around the corner but maybe three or four years ahead of time so much as much as hard we pulled
00:04:41
Speaker
to make it happen. Somewhere the scale was just not happening and at some point we reckon that maybe we are too ahead and let this be. And we were divested out.
Being Ahead of the Market
00:04:54
Speaker
As it turned out, just about three or four years after we had actually parted ways, the Flipkarts of the world became very attractive and big.
00:05:05
Speaker
So, it was a matter of time but we were ahead of time. In the case of social wavelength also, when we got started in 2009, it was early, very, very early days for social media and accordingly early days of companies requiring
00:05:22
Speaker
a social media agency. But then again, the thought was that, you know, if you are ahead and if you develop a certain experience and expertise in that space, and if the market is going to be really, really large, then you know, the fact that you were ahead, you have got experience space and maybe
00:05:42
Speaker
credentials to flaunt, when the market becomes big, it's your choice to pick the larger business opportunities which come. So with social development, even though we were a little ahead, the timing was much better and we sort of rode the growth wave and we've been sort of there in the
00:06:03
Speaker
in the middle of all that growth happening so I think it was not a question of too early in this case the timing kind of was perfect so I think it's a call you take that you know if it's already like today if you were to start you know
00:06:21
Speaker
one more e-commerce business or something or you know probably one more content OTT and which people are doing as even as we speak about it. It seems like oh my god there are like hundred already and you know you want to be the hundred first how are you going to differentiate and where will you slice out your share of the market when it's already so crowded.
00:06:42
Speaker
I mean, it's not that it can't happen, but the challenge is bigger compared to if you are little early and you establish yourself, you know, you also, when you are early, what happens is that you also have the luxury of making mistakes and getting pardoned because nobody knows better. I mean, you are the first guy out there, so you can make mistakes and learn.
00:07:04
Speaker
and the clients will not mind it. Today, if there are certain set, it's like I was seeing some content on one of the newer OTTs. While they had great content, the user interface, I was saying that it's so clunky because I've got spoiled with Netflix. If something else comes, for all the good content, I'm complaining.
00:07:28
Speaker
because now there is a base setup, whereas maybe in the evolution of Netflix, they might have looked worse and grown, and they were the first. So, okay, maybe this is how it's done, and then they kept getting better. So, it's like that. So, I think it's fine, as long as you're not too ahead of time, and you're not saying that, oh, I'll wait 10 years to make something happen. That, I think,
Partnership with Harish
00:07:53
Speaker
So I just want to touch upon Harish as well. So you mentioned that you've been working with 33 years, a large part of it. In fact, the majority of it has been with Harish as a partner. Plus you guys go back to, you know, the college days and your US post that days. Two questions here. So one, what do you think has kept the relationship going for all these years? Because you must have had your fear of, you know, agreements and disagreements and at
00:08:20
Speaker
battles and as we say, you know, vocal disagreements. And the second question is that if somebody were to start out today, what kind of software skills or software, you know, tenets would they look for in a partner to sort of work with? So yeah, as you rightly said, Harish and I go back to college times together. Now, as all of us who've been to college know that in college, you obviously have
00:08:45
Speaker
you know, several classmates and several people whom you meet and interact with. But for whatever reason, you clearly get along with some better than others, something just maybe just the wavelength or maybe just somewhere you connect at a certain level and say, this is the right kind of person to hang out with or you know,
00:09:07
Speaker
friendly with and that somehow you know happened with Harish and me and that there would be some I guess if you wanted to analyze there would probably be some
00:09:17
Speaker
tenets which work and which work from then. I mean obviously all of us as people have matured over the years so there was you know college time you had a college and you know I have that streak of little you know craziness and everything and like everybody that all that happened but in spite of all that there was a connect in the sense that I think more importantly I think from then and continuing to date I think both of us
00:09:44
Speaker
at various levels are very different but at various levels we have the similar attitude and one aspect of it is that there is a very
00:09:53
Speaker
balanced analytical approach to things and even when there could be points of view which are differing one is able to look at it from a high level of analytical process that if you are debating something around the business it's very rarely about my view versus your view it's about okay let's figure what's good for the business and like understand it in a very clinical manner
00:10:22
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and then look at what to do and things of that kind and I think even as classmates in college or we actually we went to the US, happened to go to the same school so we were sharing an apartment for a couple of years and all that so all the sort of you know understanding of each other ended up happening in those four five years that we spent you know as classmates and all so all you know in some ways we say that all that we needed to know about each other we kind of
00:10:52
Speaker
got to know at that time so after that it's been much smoother because we understand you know where each one comes from and you know of course like I said in many ways from from a business approach or from what you know fineness of things which we appreciate we would be very different at many times but when it comes to the harder decisions especially from running a business together I think we are able to align very quickly because
00:11:22
Speaker
we don't get emotional from a possessive point of view of my view versus your view of my way or your way we are able to keep those aside and always look at a business perspective also and at some high level of values we have the same feeling for example believe that we need to do a
00:11:46
Speaker
good. We need to do the right thing. I mean, maybe ours is also driven from a different perspective that you want to do the right thing because you want to sleep well at night. I mean, we don't want to carry a baggage that look, we've done something wrong and you know, something will come to bite us later. And you know, so then you get stressful sleep and all that. We don't want to do that. So even at the cost of, you know, letting go sometimes a business opportunity or something, we'd rather do it right. I mean, most of the time,
00:12:15
Speaker
almost all the time. So we both agree. Somewhere I think that value system is very similar and I think both of us are very analytical in terms of decision making or in terms of analyzing things. Beyond that there are differences and which is good because that's what brings different
00:12:34
Speaker
perspectives to the table when we are thinking about things and I think somewhere with all that number of years which we have gone by I will help to you know sort of chisel down the relationship well and we beyond that like for others I mean if I have to say that you know it's it's
00:12:54
Speaker
It's difficult to sort of say, okay, now let me go and look for a partner. I think, you know, too many times I've attended these, you know, sessions in entrepreneurship, startup, you know, all these conferences and all that.
00:13:11
Speaker
where they talk about, you know, okay, you're coming with technology, you need somebody with finance, or you're a finance founder and this and that. It's very, it's making it look like, you know, you're putting something together on an Excel file or something. You know, we're really talking about people here. So foremost in becoming, especially at a partner level. I mean, if you're getting an employee also, you need to think about what kind of culture you are bringing into your organization and all that.
00:13:39
Speaker
But still an employee, if it doesn't work out for some reason, you know, you can part ways quicker. But when it is in partnership, you know, there is a lot at stake. There's a lot of sweat, toil, emotions at stake. So you don't want to be thinking that, oh, you got in and now within a year you find out that you're not getting along in your part. And it takes a huge toll.
00:14:00
Speaker
So, it's important to find the right person from a chemistry point of view. Do you really think the same? And when you think in those early days, when you're considering partnership, do you put hard questions upfront with a new person that, look, if things are going fine, here's the business plan, let's get together and everything looks good because you painted...
00:14:22
Speaker
You've drawn the Excel sheet with everything going right. We'll do 20% growth, 50% growth. This will happen. That will happen. We'll raise this money. We'll do this. We'll do that. It all looks like a nice rosy picture and everybody's excited by it. But the question to really confront is what happens if things go wrong, right? What will be our attitude? If supposing we couldn't raise money, if we are struggling, if we don't get a customer, if we, you know, we don't collect money, if we run out of cash,
00:14:52
Speaker
anything of that kind and everything, what is going to be the attitude? Okay, one is that what will you do at that time in terms of finding for yourself as a business but would you panic, would you say oh let me close down or would you say you know let's not pay taxes, let's do this or whatever just very openly and cleanly and even if
00:15:11
Speaker
Both of them think that we will not pay tax. But as long as both of them think the same way, you're comfortable. If one thing is one way, another thing is another way, that's where the problems happen. So just basically confronting those kinds of issues and thinking that, okay, are you sure? Sometimes you'll get into a certain romanticism about your venture and you finally found somebody who could work out that you tend to
00:15:35
Speaker
Ignore some chinks which are there to see because your mind is closed because you're so excited about just moving forward. But that's the problem. Over our journey, both in home India as well as in social wavelength,
00:15:52
Speaker
we've had prospects of investors coming. Beside the two of us, we were anyway there, but we had prospects of investors keen to invest and reaching a point. Investor is also like a long-term partner. So, we've taken this effort to try to know the investor as well, not just like a partner, partner but an investor also.
00:16:15
Speaker
say we'll have a meal or two with the person informally to really understand at a core level what kind of person this is, you know, what excites them, what doesn't excite, what are like, you know, I mean just generally what do they talk about, what they hold high in their in their priorities, just to know each other that is this the kind of person that, you know, we would spend next several years with. So likewise, I mean for understanding that
00:16:45
Speaker
chemistry and connect is very very important besides of course finding the complementary nature of you know filling in the gaps that you're looking for in your organization. What kind of information do you seek out on a daily basis? In the
Staying Updated in Digital World
00:17:00
Speaker
world when we have so much of noise going around, how do you sift out what to read, what not to read, how to keep abreast with what is happening in the world.
00:17:09
Speaker
Actually, in many ways, it's an interesting question that I started social wavelength at age 46 when I was 46. So, it was a big leap to take because that's not an ideal age to start a venture and take chances in life.
00:17:27
Speaker
But while I was comfortable with almost everything else, I think I have a good sense of what I'm getting into and I have a reasonably good sense of what we need to do to build a business. The once insecurity I had in my mind was that the space is changing so rapidly, constantly new things are going to happen.
00:17:49
Speaker
How will I keep pace because if I'm in the business, I'm expected to stay ahead and tell my client that this is new and that is new and all that. That was indeed one of the fears that I had. It was not very easy. Anyway, I don't want to go into how I overcame the fear and all that, but today what happens is that
00:18:07
Speaker
First of all, at an individual level, over time, one has tended to find interesting people whose content you respect or interesting Twitter handles or interesting blogs and podcasts that you have seen and read and heard.
00:18:27
Speaker
Now, you would have heard much more than what you're seeing now or what you're reading, but you find which ones are the ones which really inspire you and really get you, you know, getting to the next level. So you tend to make your choices, bases, those, you know, so you need to read a lot to find which ones are good. You need to listen to a lot of podcasts to find a few which are good.
00:18:52
Speaker
over time I've done all that you know books and everything and even you know following the right kind of people so with all that having a reasonably decent network of people in the industry outside industry one is able to get one is able to discover interesting stuff through a typical active social media presence and all that and then of course follow your nose to
00:19:19
Speaker
to sort of go to places which you sense to be relevant, more relevant than others. So it's been, I think, aid to sort of read a lot or, you know, listen to a lot before figuring which ones seem to make the most sense. And beyond that, when something shows up in front of you on a social media platform,
00:19:41
Speaker
like smell it out that this should be relevant and interesting and basis that think I mean one is never like absolutely on top but I think I pick a reasonably decent amount of relevant content and information for myself if you want to remain at a cutting edge and you want constantly be up there
00:20:03
Speaker
you have to develop that habit of constantly finding content, reading and most importantly to manage not getting overwhelmed by the volume which is out there. To pick and choose and be comfortable with not pursuing everything. I mean that that FOMO should not happen here.
00:20:22
Speaker
Because that form of use you like helpless at oh my god, I didn't read that why I've not seen that podcast I'm not read that it's okay. Whatever extend, you know, and also time is only limited So the extent that you can and as long as it's a reasonable case, so I think in my case I I'm okay I'm comfortable with the extent of you know updates I even get I'm not absolutely on top but I
00:20:44
Speaker
I manage a lot and partly I think I end up running long days and I've got used to that. I probably sleep around on an average of about six hours every day. So that's a good 18 hours of makeup, waking time, which is well utilized I think. Is there anything else that you do? Once upon a time you mentioned that you enjoy squat, you enjoy walking. So do you think any other places that you use to gain what is happening around you?
00:21:15
Speaker
I mean, probably when I got started, they were a little different, but I think a lot of these practices, a lot of people also follow. Whenever I'm not driving and I'm muting, I will
00:21:32
Speaker
try to utilize as much most of the time unless I'm hard pressed for some work or some calls to make otherwise I'm listening to some podcast I'm always eager to find something more interesting to listen to I mean I have done a lot of audiobook reading I so I mean time is always the constraint so if you're
00:21:51
Speaker
Able to so if I'm just walking I mean ideally people say then you're nice to be mindful of walking also and really put all your mind and energy into walking and what kind of steps you take so you shouldn't ideally not get anything any other input now I Have not been that mindful. So while my physical, you know walking thing happened and my hopefully my
00:22:15
Speaker
you know muscles are getting stretched and whatever I mean all that extra is happening but my mind is free and I'm still consuming content and I think as you know I'm quite active on Twitter I think I have a decent set of people I follow and bases which interesting content keeps hopping up on my Twitter feed I am part of some good WhatsApp groups which
00:22:42
Speaker
genuinely feed me with interesting stuff. I mean, I value being on some of those groups and it's across the board. It's not just marketing. I mean, I have groups which are on, you know, investing and there are groups which is general, you know, like, you know, staying on top on current topics and all that.
00:23:02
Speaker
Fortunately, I don't need so much to go and look for things as much as things tend to come on my feet because of this network. So at
Understanding Consumer Behavior
00:23:13
Speaker
marketeer, how do you train yourself to understand the consumer? I might be saying this slightly immodestly and I'm not sure if it is really something different but I feel I
00:23:30
Speaker
have that slightly different training or somewhere from a very early age since I started working. I don't know why, maybe it's a genes of a family which I come from and all that, but generally observing life, right? If I'm just, even if I'm passing by, if I'm looking at a nearby or a, or a new parlor, which shows up or whatever, the,
00:23:56
Speaker
the thing going in my head for whatever reason is like what will make this successful? Why will it work not work and why it will work and why it won't work? And you know, like is the location right? Are they, you know, are they, have they got the name correct here? Is this something that you'll resonate with this?
00:24:12
Speaker
community and it's not just B2C businesses but even B2B have in some, I mean, oh, this is an aluminum die casting business and this guy is connected to Bajaj family and they will be in a position to supply these to Bajaj Auto and that's why they show too well and I mean, I have got nothing to do with it.
00:24:33
Speaker
but my head is spinning all this very intuitively. I mean, it's not like somebody asked me a question and say, oh, analyze this business. But I don't know why it's, it's happened from a very early age. And I mean, I think when, when people ask me a lot of times different kinds of business, entrepreneurs and others come want to bounce things off. I find myself, and like I said, I'm talking about it very immodesty, but I think my people who have listened to me found value that I'm able to,
00:25:02
Speaker
give them a valuable input across a variety of businesses because I seem to zero down on their core challenges and core issues and then tell them exactly where they can get help.
00:25:18
Speaker
Now, I feel that I do that well. Now, that's an intuitive approach, which means also that, look, if I'm in a mall and I'm seeing a new store come up and I'm sensing that, okay, this is the high-end fashion and this is a different kind of community. If this guy has to succeed, I mean, how will he draw a certain kind of audience here? Or will he also start putting the product down at a lower level?
00:25:44
Speaker
or what is the kind of person who is walking in and what is the sense of the demography that the person belongs in. Does he come out with a bag or is he just going there to enjoy the air conditioning or what. So all these things have been sort of intuitively looks like a second nature somehow. And that seems to have helped me when I've become a so-called professional marketer now as a running an agency.
00:26:10
Speaker
So it was not there, I was not in that space, but so I think it's helped me naturally taking up. Even when I was doing those other things, right, when I was doing my family business, I was a very industrial kind of work.
00:26:23
Speaker
And if I was aspiring that time that if I had to do something else, somewhere in my mind, it was all about consumer experiential kind of work that I would thrive in. Because I saw somewhere thought that, you know, I think I can get that part well, understand consumer behavior and kind of create some interesting creative approaches to drive consumers or, you know, make them come again and all that.
00:26:49
Speaker
So never quite the chance to do any of that but now as a marketer I think all that hopefully all that urge or interest that I had seems to come out as we think in terms of our clients business. So if I were to use a word for this can I say that you were inherently curious about the world around you and you wanted to sort of solve the puzzle in your head?
00:27:11
Speaker
I think so. Curious about the world from slightly below the surface level. I mean like what is driving. Could be at a surficial level. This is a new shop. It has come up here. But going below that, what will make this work? What is it happening with the customer? Little more than the surface level. I was curious enough and inherently curious. So if any young marketeers are, if they were to develop this muscle, if I can call this a muscle,
00:27:41
Speaker
like you mentioned they need to observe things but apart from that is there anything else that you could train them on? I think curiosity is definitely the biggest factor now. Curiosity can manifest itself in the way it did for me in terms of just being you know going out and observing things and you know kind of
00:27:59
Speaker
thinking about them in your head as to you know like what is it about this work and this business but otherwise if you can't think more I mean the point of just being asking questions asking and talking to people because you're curious and asking genuine sort of interest level questions where you really want to go deeper helps a lot because you're you're not reading theory
00:28:28
Speaker
you're talking to people who are in, in the field and trying to understand from them what's going on, what's working, what's not working. I think that's like a huge one. And unfortunately I find people doing less of that because today our world has become so much a screen based world. So people are reading articles and seeing that, okay, now I've got, I've got it. I've got my marketing or I've got
00:28:54
Speaker
you know, consumer behavior, but there is nothing like actually talking, actually observing, actually engaging and then learning because then you are able to sort of know the between the lines story. So that's, that's one big thing that I would believe marketers need to be doing a lot more than they are doing today.
00:29:13
Speaker
Besides that, of course, the typical stuff of, you know, sort of, there's ample available also online. So I mean, you know, just to read going beyond theory and today, unfortunately, we have gone into this whole short form world that people read headlines and they think they've got it. So sometimes it's important to go deeper, read longer stuff, you know, see case studies, read
00:29:35
Speaker
Genuinely, what happened? How did Nike become a success? How did Starbucks become a success in its life? What's the story of a Southwest Airlines? How is it different from all other airlines? What happened? What is the journey like? All of that includes the marketing part. Finally, marketing is driving business success. When you run the whole story of the business success, marketing is an inherent part, but you're learning the final overall
00:30:04
Speaker
What drives the business success? So staying on this thing about the changing world, you have been a marketer when it was a lot more creative in the sense that you had to come with an insight, crack a campaign and show it to people on mass media.
00:30:22
Speaker
then you are now obviously at a business wherein you use a lot of tech and data to figure out what could work for people. So that transition has happened. If I were to ask you and predict that in the next 10 years by 2030, what kind of, what would the marketing be like? Like today
Future of Marketing Predictions
00:30:38
Speaker
it's all about data and automation. What would be the buzzword in about 10 years? I think in today's day, if you can look ahead by six months or a year, you will be a wizard.
00:30:49
Speaker
10 years is really really hard to think ahead but generally speaking very broad level things which are impacting everything in life and will also impact marketing in a pretty big way. Definitely data and analytics it is a big one so we are learning more and more that you know past behavior not just yours but of various other people and the en masse behavior and the analysis of that
00:31:19
Speaker
the data analysis can lean you into a reasonably reliable predictive ability. That if all this data is there and you are able to crunch it well and obviously that crunching of that all that data was beyond what a human mind could do in one way. So hence, the whole ability of artificial intelligence and machine learning and everything
00:31:45
Speaker
is able to do that well, and is able to predict that, okay, on this day, now that this data is there, and you also see if there's a film, which is about release. And you have all the elements of a film, right, you have the stars, you have the music, and you have the connector and everything. And then you have data about all these guys in the past, data about the genre of the music, there's a data about the genre of the film. And there is
00:32:12
Speaker
the past history of each of the actors and each of the directors and all that and then there is a behavior around the teasers that you release that okay how many people consumed it how much time they are spending at what second of the video are people cutting off and giving you know I mean all kinds of data is being captured now if it's put through an AI engine
00:32:35
Speaker
Is it able to say that on Friday when the film is in the theatres, so many people will end up. It will run for so many days with certain X level of theatre occupancy, etc. You could possibly do that provided you do these next 10 things in terms of marketing.
00:32:54
Speaker
Now, since you have done these teasers, between now and Friday, put these banners here or put this kind of communication here because that's what is working, enhance this particular music because that's getting people excited. So, there is...
00:33:09
Speaker
the past all the data churned out then predict something that okay you still it's all like okay now you're done now just wait for Friday and you know count the money it's all right so now to Friday you know do all these things and then see that you get the actual impact which you're you know predicting that would happen so it's getting into the scheme where data is going to play a big role but like I said you still need to get your you know the music right or the you know banners right and all that because that's
00:33:37
Speaker
getting to basis that the next behavior is being driven.
00:33:40
Speaker
Obviously, data and creative coming together, AI, machine language, all that coming together. All those things continue to be playing a role. Today, they are nice buzzwords and you'll find that one study which did something and won a can and all that. Going forward, it will become far more commonplace and a lot more people will be doing it. Those are the timing. Obviously, there'll be voice. Voice is a means, for example,
00:34:09
Speaker
It's going to put a very different challenge to the digital market of course, especially that, you know, when I asked my Alexa device or my Google Home or something about something, it's not telling me 10 answers. It's giving me one or two suggestions. Now how, you know, today in a search engine, you know, so many people, you know, so many different combinations, people go up and down and see. Now, how is it going to happen?
00:34:32
Speaker
How will the marketer manage to make sure that his product or brand comes out when people are asking for suggestions on something? Which solution should I buy? Supposing tomorrow Google Home is supposed to start guiding you on that. How do you make sure that yours is the one which starts coming up as a preference and all that. So there's a lot of technology dependence, a lot of science and then of course, an element of creator will continue to drive that.
00:35:01
Speaker
And we'll see. Beyond that, a lot of things will happen between now and 2030, for example. We'll have to keep looking at it in the next fortnight, next month, two months, even next quarter is what we can keep planning for and other things we wait and watch for the bigger development. Keep your head above on the big developments and see what impact it can have in your business.
00:35:28
Speaker
detail will be planned on a short period. So next is a favorite buzzword with a lot of clients these days, cause led marketing where the brand say that we'll take a stand, which is larger than the brand per se. And we would then create all the communication. In fact, some, in some cases that tweak the company to actually rally the entire cause. I just want to understand your opinion on that. How does digital play a role in amplifying those causes?
00:35:56
Speaker
In the past, my view had been that I was thinking about this as like a very sort of pretentious thing that brand would do. There was this some telecom brand which had taken up the case of Tiger or something like that. And this is a
00:36:15
Speaker
this is not sounding sincere at all and they're just trying to do one of them. I don't think it was successful. I don't think you know consumer versus sucker to buy into such one-off random campaigns of that kind and that had been my view that like really TK and unless you are as a brand you're really wedded to a cause. I mean there are some brands which are wedded. I mean they have a
00:36:38
Speaker
I mean, if you look at a Tata Tea and you see a Jagore and all that, there is a very strong association which is there for a period of time. It's not like, okay, let's do a campaign around some Jagore kind of thing. It's not. They've been consistently doing that. So then sure, you associate and maybe for a consumer also, there is a rub-off to the positive spin that they're trying to give with that.
00:37:03
Speaker
Otherwise, in the past, I was looking at it and I was not one of those guys who got excited by these calls that marketing and I was thinking, as a consumer, I thought that, you know, Branta, just trying to bring the consumer into thinking that they care so much.
00:37:19
Speaker
Today, things have changed. So, if you look at general behavioral insights and you see that there is a whole millennial generation and people around that age, definitely respect brands which stand for something.
00:37:39
Speaker
okay and so it's becoming to the extent that they would give it a preference I mean even today I mean the number of posts that I've seen in recent days from people who say that look the big retail big box you know e-commerce guys let us down but our Kirana has helped us in this lockdown time
00:38:00
Speaker
Even when the lockdown opens, I'm going to continue to give my business to this Kirana because it's good for me in my tough times. Now, it's like those are the kind of values. I mean, like an Amazon or a Flipkart would be a lot of convenience for a lot of people.
00:38:15
Speaker
how true people are and how much they really follow through on this promise right now, what they're saying on social media or not. But the fact that they're actually connecting that gratitude or which they felt to saying that I'll make a business, I mean a brand preference because of that.
00:38:33
Speaker
it stands for something and it's likewise I mean if people are actually making choice because hey these guys have a certain value system or they are respecting gender diversity or you know whatever are the causes that one stands for and then you stand for it consistently through your communication through your acts also as a brand not just communication not just advertising but in terms of
00:38:58
Speaker
actually, if there is an incident in your office, how you actually react at that point, you know, what you stand for or not. In that sense, if you do all that in a more consistent way, then there is a certain audience which actually
00:39:12
Speaker
you know respects that stand and make use their preference to that brand so because of commercial compulsion in a sense you know brands are slightly more forced to take a stand you don't take a stand would that work against you or not I don't know so call that marketing
00:39:31
Speaker
is not necessarily a fad or a campaign thing anymore if you're as long as you're consistent and stand for something. The particular demography of the audience which believes in that cause will also reward you for taking that stand and in that respect it helps. So you briefly mentioned about how people on social media are saying that we will support the local Kiranas in the time the lockdown.
00:39:56
Speaker
So two questions. One,
Post-COVID Business Communication
00:39:58
Speaker
how is the business communication in the post-Coronavirus world? And second, what opportunities are you getting? So the first instance in terms of the post-COVID world, and I'm saying the near future of
00:40:12
Speaker
let's say post lockdown when you start resumption of normal life which I hope it happens at some point right now it's not looking clear to when it will happen but assuming that it happens and when I say normalcy the normal of course we all realize that it's not a normal it's a new normal and that new normal in many ways so first of all businesses small businesses even large companies would have come out
00:40:40
Speaker
of a period of losses because, you know, they would have not been selling for three months, four months, whatever, or it could have been short or people would have not been productive, but still salaries would have been paid and whatnot. So everybody would be coming from an economic shock of sorts and coming back. So in the near future, I would say that, I mean, when I say near future, probably for all of 2020, I would believe that everybody will be
00:41:07
Speaker
tightening their belts and doing communication and marketing to the extent that is necessary to actually sell. So it will be very ROI driven. It will be very Danda oriented rather than brand building and all that. So I think that's the near future. And even post that when things settle down, I don't foresee this after the world having gone through a shocker of this kind.
00:41:34
Speaker
which is obviously once in a lifetime or even more than that once in 100 years or something of that kind of thing we're going through is unprecedented. So when you come back the normal according to me will be different and what will be different is at a very large level is that a reduction in the consumption levels overall. I mean first of all luxury you know travel
00:41:59
Speaker
which were to a large extent related to the excess beyond necessity. It was in the comfort and luxury area, whether you take a fancy vacation, whether you fly out for a vacation abroad, etc. or go and stay in a fancy hotel. And even if you do that for work, I mean, now that you realize that work can happen over a
00:42:22
Speaker
a Zoom or a Microsoft Teams call. So anything which is beyond that is in some sense that you're going access. And earlier when it was Zoom and all were not the norm, and one would just take for a comment, let's take a flight and hop away. And you know, we should do that because the business was able to take that cost and everything. And all that, whether it's at a business access or at a personal level, a lot of it is going to come down. And there's a corresponding reduction. So correspondingly, you stay at home a lot, you
00:42:50
Speaker
you know, for other requirements, you know, whether it's clothes or other things, everything kind of, we are going into an economy or a new normal, which to me will be a notch lower in terms of the larger consumption economy that we were all into. It will be a one notch lesser level of consumption in the first place. And what changes with that is the extent of effort and spend that you require,
00:43:20
Speaker
to achieve your goals because if your factory was producing a million units now the demand has gone down to half a million and you know the same now maybe you need to do something else to sell half a million because your targets are less half whatever
00:43:36
Speaker
first you have to scale down your courses. Some sectors will take much longer to come back. So the extent of clutter on all marketing spaces will reduce the fight that you had to grab eyeballs in a much more cluttered world. There will be lesser of a competition because fewer brands will actually be spending money.
00:43:57
Speaker
you know, at a larger level that's the changing world that we would see post COVID. Being more specific in terms of the shifts that one would see, most certainly as you know, we've seen enough articles and enough even jokes around it that you know, what all our marketing efforts couldn't do in to get you know, digital transformation up high on the agenda of clients.
00:44:22
Speaker
COVID has done that for us today. So more and more clients are obviously realizing that having a very strong digital focus, whether it is to actually sell on e-commerce, whether it is to run business operations using digital means and marketing using digital
00:44:42
Speaker
is definitely something that Realization has hugely set in as the CEOs and the CXOs sitting at home and running their businesses on Zoom have realized now. So some of them have already started putting out internal team discussions of their own. And as soon as they get a chance, I'm sure the conversation will start with service providers and agencies as well as to how can their business get transformed rapidly
00:45:12
Speaker
into a digital first kind of business operation. So we should certainly see as being one of the players in that space, we definitely see for Miram opportunity. So we definitely at this point, we definitely see challenges to maintain our revenues and all because of the immediate impact of forward and clients reducing marketing spend and everything. But at least we believe that
00:45:41
Speaker
once things settle down the opportunities will come equally or more and hopefully we'll be able to actually come back to you know from a business point of view we'll come back to
00:45:52
Speaker
you know, good run rate and good growth rate and all that. But that's just, I'm just talking specifically about, you know, but in general, I think there should be a definite increase or acceleration towards digital means. And unfortunately, that will come at the cost of some of the other media which currently have been getting the share. I mean, we believe that, you know, print is going to take a huge hit. It's already taking a huge hit and it'll take a further big hit in terms of
00:46:22
Speaker
dramatic reduction in the revenues, advertising and everything. And even things like out of home, cinema, for example, I mean, although already it is very, very small percentage lost its ground a lot. I think for a long time, people are not going to rush to cinema, the people are not going to rush into a sports stadium with like 40,000 people around you.
00:46:47
Speaker
that vaccine is at least a two year away. So all those means of marketing, you know, people used to take huge bets on the IPL and stuff like that. You know, all that money still needs to be spent. I mean, all that marketing still needs to happen. What they were getting out of an IPL now, they'll look for other means to get the same results. And, you know, digital definitely looks like being one of the big beneficiaries of that shift.
00:47:13
Speaker
Do you also touch upon, briefly upon the opportunities that you think will get created as a second order or third order effect? I can say, I think it's still such an evolving space. So anything which we say today, you know, it's based on the very little that we really know where this world is headed.
00:47:31
Speaker
I mean you can pick some few things which are likely to happen but there could be a lot more in the sense pros and cons and pluses and minuses which we will know once you know it's we are bang in the middle of it we are not in the
00:47:50
Speaker
very beginning and we are definitely not anywhere close to the end of the crisis. So we are still very much in the middle, whether it lasts three months, whether it lasts six months and what kind of impact it leaves by the time it sort of goes away out of life in that sense is the question mark, you know, because of the, it's like hurting just so many people.
Digital Economy Opportunities Post-COVID
00:48:13
Speaker
I mean, the entire sort of gig workers or gig economy workers, if you call them or all the freelancers, all the
00:48:20
Speaker
We talk about the daily wage earners. The vision comes into mind is people out in labor and all that. But a freelancer is as much a daily wage earner as a guy on the construction side. And when business gets cut, I mean, at least the people who are in a company, hopefully a company is trying their best to retain them. Maybe there'll be salary cards or something.
00:48:46
Speaker
kind of let them go but somebody who was a freelancer and like the first things that okay stop all outsourcing work do everything in house are people themselves are less busy so keep them busy so all there's there's already a lot of hurt is definitely expected a lot of challenges will be there in out in society so we don't know what finding the emerge what emerges but
00:49:09
Speaker
So, the only thing one can say is that hopefully this whole, you know, internet, you know, so, like while we have been stuck at home, we all say that thankfully, you know, we've had water, electricity and internet and the essential supplies, so we have been able to manage it. Imagine if we were not having internet or if there was some, you know, some catastrophe where even water or electricity were
00:49:34
Speaker
curtailed or something I mean the kind of I can't even visualize I mean nobody visualized this as well but if you had any of these things missing would have been much more crazier right so now internet assuming that you know all that is there and continues to grow then things around like genuine business around the internet whether it's a it's a whole fintech space so whether it's the edge edge you take space healthcare and around healthcare I mean people are there is
00:50:03
Speaker
no time ever in, at least in my life that people have read so much and learned so much about viruses and vaccines and like, you know, whatnot as a common people, right? So it says a heightened awareness around the subject of health and subject of taking care of oneself.
00:50:22
Speaker
as never before. I mean, no other thing had ever created this level of awareness in the common people. So all those things will sort of lead you into say, you know, self-fitness and well-being. So it's like, you know, if you're a personal trainer and can deliver course over a video signal or like the whole education at home and constantly evolving what kind of education to give because the world is going to require different kinds of skills and training.
00:50:51
Speaker
So, but the fact that if you have an engine which delivers education over the internet and delivers it to people on a pretty much as a SaaS model of sorts, I mean that's in good space and similarly, Frintech and financial solutions and bringing good opportunities or health care and all these are, these look, I mean e-commerce mostly is definitely e-commerce and delivery means and logistics and all that.
00:51:18
Speaker
Those are looking apparent to be the beneficiaries going forward. There could be more and there could be some others which we are not able to see today until things settle down and we see what's the new normal looking like. So continue with that, tell me as an agency owner or a brand owner or a business owner, what are the three very important or the most important financial and non-financial KPIs?
00:51:42
Speaker
on your dashboard and think it from the both pre COVID and the post COVID word. Like for example, you mentioned that post COVID ROI will become a centerpiece in terms of the focus. So what are those key KPIs that I should be looking at as a market
00:51:57
Speaker
I think as a business owner, what definitely we want to continue to track is revenue and direct costs. Both revenue continues to be there, pipeline is there and costs are under control so you're able to see the picture that you're keeping your
00:52:22
Speaker
head above the water and that is that continues to be there and then also the second part is cash flow so in terms of you know recoveries and money is coming in because you could be profitable but not cash flow policy then also that's a big challenge so that's the second connected metric
00:52:41
Speaker
And third is probably, I would say that the revenue mix, like a good infographic of sorts or a dashboard of sorts for revenue mix from different perspectives. One is that, A, are you not, to ensure that you're not over skewed anywhere. So either in terms of one business vertical becoming like 80% and everything else, especially if you're a multi-vertical business, for example.
00:53:11
Speaker
that are we having a reasonable balance across our different verticals because one or the other vertical could face challenges at any point, then if you are reasonably balanced and the others will still help you balance out your overall numbers.
00:53:27
Speaker
Similarly, you know client-wise you're not skewed very heavily into like that one big client who if he goes then you know it takes half the revenue with it so then that kind of challenge is also a challenge and the fact that what is the level of profitability of business across your different revenue cycles so you know all not all
00:53:47
Speaker
monies which come in contribute equally. So, are we having some laggards, are we having some businesses which are giving revenues but at actual level they are ROI negative for the company in which case. So again, what's the same thing is the revenue mix from that point of view, revenue mix from
00:54:05
Speaker
domain and geography, point of view, revenue mix from different verticals. That's an interesting, useful sort of metric or API to keep watching beyond the revenue costs and cash. If I call them media companies, Facebook and Google sort of control about 80 to 90% of money that is spent on publishers' media in the digital space.
Challenges to Facebook and Google's Duopoly
00:54:30
Speaker
How do you see this duopoly being broken in the time to come?
00:54:35
Speaker
I don't think there's anything like a never being broken scenario because over the years, generally if you observe eras, they are companies which have dominated one era and then another company come and dominates the next era and the first one.
00:54:54
Speaker
falls by the side. Even in the computing age, we had IBM and Sun Microsystems and those kinds of people who were big leaders at the time. Microsoft is the only company by far who has straddled across multiple eras, which is why it's one of the most valuable companies in the world, which is an exception.
00:55:17
Speaker
But otherwise, you know, there will be obviously a next one coming in now. How and what is, of course, very challenging. But let's also understand that while Facebook and Google are there, there is also Amazon. I'm seeing from a media point of view.
00:55:36
Speaker
And likewise the whole Chinese companies which are because first of their own large market size, the numbers are there and then because they become popular and they go beyond their borders and they become big outside also, Alibaba or TikTok or whatever. So there is a challenge, it's not like a clean race but from where you are coming from, even when you think in terms of duopoly and all that.
00:56:03
Speaker
Well, many things could happen. One is, so there is a certain influence that the current founder leaders play in these businesses, whether it's Zuckerberg or, you know, Page and Brin and, you know, while they may or may not have very operational roles, they continue to be very active in the business, very inspirational and a certain focus and their drive.
00:56:28
Speaker
whether the organization can continue to maintain that level of sort of competitiveness to stay absolutely on top, post them, you know, at some point they might, you know, I don't know, maybe they'll get tired and bored and want to go and golf more or whatever. So, that's one angle to it that whether they will remain like that.
00:56:49
Speaker
fiercely competitive to stay on top kind of an organization is often a characteristic that comes from the original founder. But beyond that, I mean, beyond that is
00:57:02
Speaker
We all know that Google was not the first search engine, it's probably the 50th and it was able to come and break. Something different and even Instagram has come and WhatsApp has come and everything has come later on and Twitter came. In the initial stage when TikTok became big, I was saying, shit, what is this about this TikTok? What is really the drive?
00:57:30
Speaker
something about a new platform can just become that glue or that engaging fact which impresses millions and hundreds of millions of people and it can just pose a challenge. Now while both of these have a certain place and there is a lot of
00:57:52
Speaker
glue around the whatever, like, you know, whether it's search on one side or the whole connectedness around Facebook with all your friends and family and everything. Those are like really hard, but like, who knows, like something else comes up and you know, just by some inherent attractive features able to draw away. Like if I could see what it would be, then hopefully I would have been, you know, somewhere in a garage in the Silicon Valley, you know, with a few programmers, you know, trying to actually make it happen.
00:58:22
Speaker
Obviously, I don't, but I also believe that these are not permanent lockdown situations and there will be something which will emerge and maybe in the next five years, something to challenge these giants. Could be because of various things, because of changing advertising models, all of these still have advertising as the biggest means of revenue.
00:58:47
Speaker
Now if there is a different advising model, if there is a different format, if there is a different size of content, I mean a different way of connecting like one click connection on your phone or I don't know what. I mean I'm just thinking in terms of concepts what could change and something comes up smarter, sharper, simpler and just take it. I mean take at least a place in that area. So it is definitely possible. I don't see them. They're very very strong, very very formidable players today.
00:59:15
Speaker
but I don't say that they're invincible. This entire breed of people next door that have suddenly become huge influencers for A, brands and B, even the audiences. So in the post COVID world, how do you see those people and their role evolving?
Evolution of Influencer Marketing Post-COVID
00:59:35
Speaker
And how does the role of a regular, regular celebrity influencer like cricket or the film star, how would that competition stand out in the next few,
00:59:43
Speaker
So, I think the influencer marketing space is real. It's not a myth. It's not about, you know, I have so many followers and I'll tweet and I'll get like so many likes kind of thing. That is a very momentary, transactional, one-off kind of thing, which is how influencer marketing started out. And still a lot of it happens that way.
01:00:06
Speaker
But you know, it's like finally, what is this whole game of influencer marketing? Or what was the 12 or probably still continuing game of brand ambassadors or having a celebrity associated with your brand? It was to be an endorser of sorts that, oh, Shah Rukh Khan drives the Centro, it must be a good car or whatever.
01:00:28
Speaker
I mean any appeal that you know like I love Shah Rukh Khan and I'll do what I like I'll explore something because he says so or something like that now it was just like the only way to earn fame was through
01:00:43
Speaker
a mass media product like cinema or cricket and suddenly that hallowed space is not that hallowed anymore because people like you said the next door guy can also manage everybody the publisher because of social media and somebody can have an interesting unique reason why they become extremely popular as well and finally it's a question of you know reach
01:01:10
Speaker
But the more important question beyond reach, and like that's what I was actually saying, is the reason why you do, or other, you know, some percentage of people who see a celebrity or influencer do something and they follow.
01:01:22
Speaker
is the whole game of trust and you know trust is a big one in getting a call to action to happen in a marketing space that look if so and so brand is saying that they are doing this or something I'll trust them and I buy their product because they say so and everybody's not going and seeing certification then it's real for sure or not you're trusting the world of a certain brand
01:01:48
Speaker
Over time, people have all become a warrior of the branch peak because they take all those communications with a lot of filtering. That's where the third party comes in. That's where an influencer comes in. That's where a celebrity comes in.
01:02:06
Speaker
to sort of say that, hey, you know, I say that this is good, try it out. And we will do that because they think they trust this word. So if somebody else is able to inspire that same level of trust, which a celebrity used to do, and much more than a brand can do on their own, that definitely becomes
01:02:27
Speaker
relevant and interesting part of the whole marketing mix. Now the part to appreciate is that how the influencer marketing is done, the method to the madness. Now if there is just somebody who has a large following and you know today they take a contract for brand A or they take a contract for brand B, brand C etc.
01:02:48
Speaker
competitive space, then there is no relevance and there is no trust. Because today, yesterday you said that brand day would go in the same space. Today you're saying brand days go 10. Hey, what is it? Right? In a celebrity space, when they signed those fancy contracts with the start, they locked them up for at least a while.
01:03:05
Speaker
So you can't be endorsing a coke and a Pepsi at the same time obviously or even in a space of three months or six months or something like that. So that's what some influencers have abused their position by just randomly picking up context and of course the brands have also been short-sighted to work with such influencers when they have themselves seen that their same influencer was endorsing a competitor before and now tomorrow again they might endorse one more competitor.
01:03:33
Speaker
But as the space matures, both influencers and brands understand the relevance of influencer marketing as being more than getting a few likes on the brand's post for the day, but to actually drive action, to drive consumption of acquisition, customer acquisition, then it will be done with a lot more science and maturity like how celebrity marketing happens.
01:03:57
Speaker
In which case, it is there to stay. It's a good space. So, which movies, any language and platform do you think are the best marketing lessons for people to acquire? I'm
Movies Teaching Marketing Lessons
01:04:10
Speaker
extremely impressed by this one movie in a very shungrachi factory, which is the story of Dada Saheb Phalke.
01:04:18
Speaker
You know, the drive that the man, I mean that movie has been, first of all, it's come out really well. But it shows the story of this passionate gentleman and his family, who was probably his marketing team, if you may call his wife and children.
01:04:34
Speaker
literally that was the team which played. And the way he actually convinces audiences to come and see his shows, takes with very meager means, takes the ship and goes to the UK and tries to get money or like partnership from there and come bring them back and all that fabulous story of passionate marketing, like somebody's convinced about
01:04:59
Speaker
something and just wants people to convince people to do the way you want them to do. That is one second. Second is again.
01:05:08
Speaker
In the same sort of genre, marketing is communicating an idea and getting a lot of people to believe and follow with you, right? So there again is that the best stories of marketing are for me at these days, the one which impressed me, second one also happens to be in the same kind, are real people's story. And you know, we also know what impact they create. The second I'm talking about is Gandhi. And you can see that again, this person is amazing.
01:05:36
Speaker
gentlemen, through matter of speaking and the way he engages people and maybe he's sharp also. Okay. Now, while we see a simplistic lifestyle, but he knows what, you know, what to pull, what threats to what things to pull to the right people and get his way, whether it is with the British people or whether it is with the Congress party or whether it is followers and
01:06:00
Speaker
people who are around him and the right message, that's the kind of impact that he gets a nation behind him. In a time when there was no internet, there was no way to communicate across and still he's able to get the whole nation driven around him.
01:06:16
Speaker
to go a certain way that also non-violent and everything again a great story and likewise again in a third not fact but a fiction part of the same kind is lagan right again this young guy you know like just because of the challenge of you know getting the lagan to be let go takes on a seemingly impossible task of you know playing and winning a cricket game
01:06:46
Speaker
and just gets the whole village to rally around him, you know, gets people to work around and actually come and people who never played cricket before trying to figure something and do, I mean, these are all inspirational stories, but at its core,
01:07:02
Speaker
I mean, there may be more, but these are the ones which came to mind. Absolutely. Last question. If you were to give, let's say a few nuggets of wisdom to young marketers, what could those be like? For example,
Advice for Young Marketers
01:07:14
Speaker
common mistakes you avoid, what hard skills or soft skills would be required in the time to come? What could those be? Okay. So going slightly uncharacteristic of the times that we live in, where everybody lives in a world where everything happens instantaneously and quick fixes and all that.
01:07:32
Speaker
One needs to appreciate that to create and hone a skill. And if you're talking about marketing as a career, to hone a skill takes effort, time, experience. So be at it for a long time.
01:07:47
Speaker
with a keen intent to constantly improve. I mean, I've seen people working in some of the other roles and in two years they come and say, I think I've learned what is there to learn. Now I want to do something else. This is fine. I mean, if you're experimenting and doing something else is okay. I'm just saying, that's fine. But say if you wanted to be the best copywriter or you want to be the best designer or you want to be the best salesperson.
01:08:14
Speaker
I mean, it takes time and effort and learning to get there. So don't look for shortcuts, don't look for quick fixes, because it's not going to work. Second thing I tell, especially in the team in Viram, and you know, when we are talking to people about careers and all that, that sometimes you could be in a space and you know, digital marketing, for example, if somebody in the digital marketing space today, they are in a space where it's a hot space
01:08:43
Speaker
it will only grow many fold over the next several years. So if one is already there today, or if somebody has started five years back, you're in a place which is going to become hard property already it's in that direction. Now you could probably not do anything and just keep flowing. As long as you don't screw up yourself, you will still grow at a certain decent space. Maybe there's a
01:09:10
Speaker
10-20% growth rate. I'm not talking about money but I'm just saying from a growth rate point of view. On the other hand, if you choose to take a little more effort today, you can sharply improve your growth rate and become a leader in no time because unfortunately the average person today, I mean there's a lemon that I have and I share with a few other entrepreneurs that
01:09:37
Speaker
the drive in younger people is sadly, on an average, I'm not talking about everybody, is not that great. I mean, people, because somewhere, there's so much distraction and so many other things to do in life that, you know, from a professional career perspective, one is often, it's sort of okay to accept, you know, a decent, like, okay, this type of effort.
01:10:05
Speaker
As against, you know, probably, and I'm not saying mine, but I mean, I think in earlier times when you didn't have enough choice, and this was the only thing, if you didn't do this well, then you know, shit, like what else you were to say, you were grinding yourself to become better and better and better. I'm not, I don't see it on an average. I mean, there'll be always exceptions. So I'm saying, if you can be in that exceptional part and keep honing your skills,
01:10:29
Speaker
the leaders which will emerge tomorrow because today there are the big leaders in the advertising and marketing world are guys or people who came from a traditional media background, traditional advertising background and today they have brand names but in five years, ten years time those respect will be two names which have emerged out of the digital world and it will be those levels or more you know it's that sort of thing I mean
01:10:54
Speaker
you take an example of cricket, I don't know, Gavaskar came out of the, you know, Siyayi Park and this and that and he reached a certain level. I mean, certain came and you know, beat that level and we are in a very different way, a more aggressive way and a more sort of in your face way is going to a completely different level because the space constantly evolves. So one, a young marketer today could clearly aspire to be one of those leaders.
01:11:22
Speaker
provided you really, you know, hone your skills so well, take everything, you know, because unfortunately, you know, COVID apart, COVID is creating a different era for us. But pre-COVID, for a lot of these spaces, the job security was not an issue, because the demand for skill was more than supply. You know, if somebody is not good in a particular organization, organizing sales, I don't want to continue.
01:11:48
Speaker
point is he just walks into another competing business and picks up on the job maybe at 20% more also or more. So if that's not driving you that I'll lose a job and I won't have a job, if that's not driving you, the only thing that can drive you is self, you know internal self-motivation and that self-motivation is required now.
01:12:07
Speaker
Post-COVID days may be different, job loss may happen and somebody may work hard to keep the job also that we don't know. Otherwise, self-motivation is key. So I think that that's an important factor for people to keep in mind. That was Sanjay Mehta for you. He is the joint CEO at Miram Digital. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Please do write in to us and give us your feedback.
01:12:37
Speaker
You just heard the latest episode of the marketing internet podcast. A show for marketeers by marketeers. The show was brought to you by C-Puri and the podium.