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Ep 11. Jasleen Kaur Gumber, Benetton Group
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In this episode, we talk to Jasleen Kaur Gumber from the Benetton Group about what it takes to market to the most elusive bunch of audiences ever - youth!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Marketing Connect Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast. Hi, this is the Marketing Connect Podcast, a show where we get up close and personal with some of the most celebrated marketeers in the country. We talk to them and discover the art and science of marketing. After all, we are a show for marketeers by marketeers. Listen in.
Guest Introduction: Jasleen from Benetton
00:00:28
Speaker
On this episode, we have Just Lean from Benetton. She talks to us about what it takes to market to this ever evolving, ever changing and ever so mysterious youth of today. Listen in.
Jasleen's Passion for Writing
00:00:40
Speaker
Today I have a really really interesting guest with me on the podcast. So I have Jasleen with me and apart from the fact that Jasleen and I went to the same college, what is also interesting is that both of us have a hobby of writing as well. So while I write people who had murdered, crime fiction and other things, Jasleen writes something completely different.
00:00:58
Speaker
Justine, do you want to talk about what you write? Hi, Saurabh. First of all, thank you so much for having me. And yes, I am from MDI. The same college as Saurabh is from. And I actually love to write poetry. I do write short stories. I've started writing a novel. But one book that I already have out is around poetry, and that's called Ginger and Honey.
00:01:16
Speaker
So what we're going to do is, at the scene, we will drop the link of the book in the show notes. So in case people want to buy, they can do that. And the royalty is mine, whoever buys it. Done. One deal, one link. So tell me about the novel. That's interesting. I didn't know that you were writing a novel. What are you doing?
00:01:31
Speaker
So I'm actually writing the sci-fi novel but it's got a philosophical angle to it. It's about the situation where one individual faces a crisis on the earth and how that individual kind of copes up with it. So yeah it's a very American sci-fi kind of a novel but it's got a really deep and philosophical take on it.
00:01:50
Speaker
I think, I think whatever little I've interacted with you, you have been amongst the most philosophical people I know. So I think that, and those are very impressionable days and that's a very impressionable age that you have. So I think getting exposed to a lot of psychology and philosophy that time really built it in me. So over the years, it's just grown.
00:02:07
Speaker
So funny thing, I am training to be a script writer for screens for TV and films. And a couple of days back, I attended a class on psychology 101. So, so the gentleman took us through, you know, the entire school of psychology, that favorite Freud, I don't know how to pronounce his name. That Freud. So that is interesting. So tell me, let's talk about your career,
Jasleen's Career Journey in Marketing
00:02:29
Speaker
right? Like talk to us about from the first job onwards, till where you are right now.
00:02:34
Speaker
So I have through and through been in marketing. I feel it's a little limiting, but yes, that's the way the career has spanned out for me. So I started with a publishing house where I was in the sales and communication department. I was just there for a year and I kind of tasted the tea and realized, okay, dude, sales is not for me. So I have to get out of it.
00:02:54
Speaker
My second job was in Canon. I spent about a little more than four years in Canon, did two different departments extensively managed the advertising, BTL and public relations. And then I have come on to Benetton, United Colours of Benetton, where I have already crossed the five year mark. Been a very interesting stint with Benetton, learned a lot here, did a lot here, contributed a lot here.
00:03:17
Speaker
And the fashion landscape's ever changing. So, you know, it's never the same year, the next year that you work on. So, yeah, and it's been very dynamic. Most of the early trends, I feel, come in retail, come in fashion, so to say. So, yeah, I've also been an adopter of the early trends in the market. I think great about it.
A Day in the Life of Jasleen
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah. Tell me what is it typical day like for a marketer at a fashion brand that is unique super fast?
00:03:42
Speaker
I kind of start from very basic. We mostly try to club fashion in one umbrella, but that's not really the case. When you try to talk about fashion, there is a big demarcation between a fast fashion brand, between a mass brand, between a mass premium brand, between a bridge to luxury brand, between a luxury brand.
00:04:03
Speaker
So there are these very strong arenas where each brand operates. And trust me, every brand has a different ballgame altogether. For a fast fashion brand, for example, their priorities might not be so much to highlight an advertising campaign as much. It would be to do an influencer marketing campaign.
00:04:24
Speaker
It pretty much depends on where you are. If I really talk about my particular day, I think about 50 to 60 percent of my day is with meetings, with vendor meetings, with agency meetings because there is a lot in the fashion industry that you have to outsource. So right from your social agencies to your public relation agencies to also there is this huge space that fashion has entered which is strategic alliances. So you know you kind of try to
00:04:53
Speaker
find brands that have the same DNA as you when you want to create associative imagery. And then there's a lot that's happening on digital front, whether it is digital marketing or it is digital conversions of customers or an online to an offline getting people to the brick and mortar stores. So I think a big chunk goes into doing all of these meetings and staying updated with what is happening in the market.
00:05:16
Speaker
And I think one other big chunk of your day really goes into getting all internal updates. What is the progress on the next collection? What is happening on the next to next collection ideation? Because fashion industry really works way in advance on the internal front.
00:05:34
Speaker
And then comes your market research, your comes your market visits, team alignment, you basically see what's happening out there in the market, not just on Instagram, but you go out and see what stores are, what is competition really talking like. So any particular day is like a mix of all of these things. And you still find time to
00:06:00
Speaker
That's all of that is post office hours when I really have to like relax That's mostly that time. There is no scope of any poetry whatsoever when I'm doing work
00:06:12
Speaker
Apart from probably writing stinkers to people who haven't given in whatever. Or they'll miss their deadline, yes. And I'm sure you must be on the receiving end of stinkers
Understanding Culture in Marketing Strategies
00:06:22
Speaker
as well. So at office or even at home for example, let's say you're struggling with a huge marketing problem that you can't seem to find a solution to. So who do you reach out to for help?
00:06:31
Speaker
So, you know, sometimes when you are heading a department, there are pros and cons of it. Sometimes getting an immediate help can be a task because what happens is when you are heading a particular region, a local region, you pretty much have to figure out things. And I kind of have realized one thing that whenever I've been stuck, and I'm a little old school when I see that, what has really helped me is going to academia.
00:06:59
Speaker
You know, probably looking up for some case studies, looking up for culture nodes. So I am a really big fan of culture nodes. I don't know how many marketers really use that, but I feel as a marketing person and definitely I am of the opinion that marketing is not a science, it's an art. So you need to
00:07:18
Speaker
you need to understand people because ultimately your consumer is the artist or is really the, sorry not the artist, is at the receiving end of the art. So understanding how the millennial population talks, walks, what their culture is, what their likes are, I have mostly seen that those are where the answers lie. Any question that you have on marketing, just resort to the culture and you'll get the answer. Got it. So this brings me from here.
00:07:44
Speaker
So one is assume Karoki, I am first year student at MDI and you go back to college and you are supposed to introduce this entire idea of culture to them in like two minutes, five minutes. Talk to me about that. That is question number one. And question number two that, you know, even to even to experience consumers,
00:08:02
Speaker
You must be finding them somewhere. Do you go to markets to observe them? Do you stand in your stores? Do you have younger cousins who consume your products? So what is your sample set and how do you build that sample set of consumers? Okay, very technical question. So I go to your first question first.
00:08:21
Speaker
And I'll take you back almost one or two decades to answer that question. Do you know we eat cheese? Like, you know, we eat the processed cheese, the Amul cheese or the mother dairy cheese. When it was introduced in the market, it was a big failure in Indian market because people didn't know how to eat it.
00:08:36
Speaker
So if you go back and see some of the early cheese campaigns, those campaigns were talking about how you can top it up on your paratha, how you can top it up on your bread and you really make a bread sandwich with cheese.
00:08:51
Speaker
it sounds so simple but the answer really was in the culture there is a certain way you don't have breakfast and you want to use cheese to them so you need to find that one meal where you can very easily fit in cheese utility you know so very interestingly I kind of feel that's a great great culture example and this is not just this with cheese you know it's also when you try and talk about like
00:09:17
Speaker
Most of the utility campaigns are around culture. You talk about wheat as a product. You know, you talk about women having to go to salon to get their hair removed. So they try and tell how you don't have time and how this is not going to hurt you and whatever, whatever. So they really take a peek inside. What is the culture of a person? What do they really do? What their routine is like? What do they like? What do they not like? So I think culture is a very broad term for all of that.
00:09:41
Speaker
That's the first part of your question. Second part of your question is very, very difficult to answer on a podcast. If I am able to answer that, I am up for an award. Let me make it simple for you. So don't give me scientific numbers in terms of ex-lobo-ka-apka-panel. But if I want to learn, let's say, for example, health space, and I want to create a new brand of health products, for example, I'm just throwing an example.
00:10:05
Speaker
Now, I want to observe, one way is that I commission a research agency and give them those questionnaires and hypotheses and they will validate and come back with insights. Second is I can just sit at a gym, for example, and observe them. So that is a good starting point for me. I can go to a McDonald's and observe, you know, fast food, for example. How do you keep a track on those kinds of people?
00:10:30
Speaker
I feel that when you talk about a market research, we have to understand and we have to be very sure of this fact that we are talking about large numbers. We are not talking about a niche segment or what is happening in one local area because
00:10:45
Speaker
I'll tell you, there are certain markets, there are certain smaller pockets in a particular big market, which will always show deviation. That will have exceptional clearance. So I think basing your big decisions on just observations of one or two or three people is never a great idea because we all tend to generalize.
00:11:07
Speaker
I would know someone who loves a certain kind of a body cream, but just that one person loving the body cream doesn't make me infer that that body cream is the best. So I will be old school when I answer this question that market research agencies are a big, big winner here. The kind of reach they have, the kind of moderation they can do on the content is a big value add.
00:11:31
Speaker
because they talk about cities, they talk about a certain demographic, they try to keep your error rate slow. So yes, if you're genuinely thinking of investments, their money is involved, their decisions involved, you have to talk to a market research company. Nonetheless, I am not going to deny the fact that some of the greatest startup ideas in the world have come from one person's observation.
00:11:55
Speaker
Mark Zuckerberg thought there was no social network, you know? There was one man's observation and that worked out, right? But I feel in a corporate where you're working for a brand and you have to base your decisions, I think a one person's observation, if it's very strong enough, should be corroborated with the market research. But putting all bets on just observation to me doesn't sound like a great idea. Until unless it's very intuitive and it's like right out there on your face.
00:12:24
Speaker
Got this. So easy question for you. Tell me when they finally said, was it an individual or was it a research agency? There are points sort of where sometimes people who have been at the helm of things have taken very strong decisions.
00:12:45
Speaker
talk about Starbucks man, Schwartz, you know, he's taken some of the biggest decisions himself. If I talk about Dunkin Donuts, there would be this one man and he will say, listen, I want to get rid of donuts. For example, there was a time when Dunkin Donuts sort of it. So all I'm saying is that yes, sometimes decisions would come from one man taking the things in their control. But you know, those those people are at the helm of things.
00:13:11
Speaker
you know either they're the founders, the co-founders or people who've had various years of experience and you know they know the industry in and out. Those kind of people are gurus, are virals. So when you talk about that one man it's probably equivalent to a million researchers but also putting pineapple on the pizza
00:13:29
Speaker
is again a very traditional culture if you go back to some of the continental cuisines that combination has existed ever since it is just that they have given one proven concept of pineapple and another proven concept of pizza and got it married so yes that is some strategy that they've put i think probably it's just going to be some great chef's idea i'm not sure it's a market research i mean so i know you right i mean i know you apart from this podcast as well and and you are
00:13:57
Speaker
a fairly vocal advocate of mental health and stuff. So do you want to talk to our young marketeers and tell them that, what is your opinion on that?
The Role of Kindness in Marketing and Society
00:14:07
Speaker
Absolutely, yes. Absolutely, yes. There is one example that I keep quoting to everyone. And this one example I heard in my master's class when I was doing psychology, I was doing master's in English, and there was a psychology class. And this psychology professor said one thing.
00:14:24
Speaker
He was giving us a situation and he told us how one tenant committed suicide. And he said that tenant committed suicide because he had fight with the landlord in the morning. But the reason that he committed suicide is not that he had the fight with the landlord in the morning. The reason for underlying reasons. But that fight in the morning became a trigger for him to take his life.
00:14:47
Speaker
So I just feel that, you know, there is so much that goes out on the social media where everybody says that be kind, be kind. And I can't say it enough how important it is to be, to be kind to everyone, because at that time, what they're thinking in their mind could be anything.
00:15:04
Speaker
And probably one instigative or one trigger word from you can really upset things. So I think we just have to be very, very careful with our words. And it's not just words. I see cyberbullying is on an all-time high. I mean, I don't know, but why do people have problems with the way anybody else is living their life? So I think we need to stop judging. We need to be a little easy on us, on other people, and we really need to be kind with our words.
00:15:30
Speaker
So justly, the next question is, so tell me the information that you that you seek out on a daily basis. Like, you know, what are your sources? What newspapers you read? What blogs do you access? You said that you listen to a lot of podcasts. So just give me like a few things that you can do actively.
00:15:47
Speaker
See, my day really starts with Google News. That is something I just can't live without. And I would really want to say this, that I have not subscribed to a physical newspaper in my home. So I have to rely a lot on the digital news. So for my world news, for my India news, I think Google News is definitely one thing that I definitely like to read. And I love to read the New York Times opinion section.
00:16:15
Speaker
That's also because it you know like I say that for me understanding culture is very important because culture is that precursor of giving you the trends that are going to come to the market. So New York opinion it has some fabulous writers and their content is very top-notch so that's one that I subscribe to. I also love to hear a few of these podcasts like there's this podcast called Rabbit Hole that's again by New York
00:16:38
Speaker
There is a podcast called Business Wars. Oh my God, that's like an addictive podcast. So they pick up two giant companies and they do this entire analysis on what really, how the war and the dual between those two brands started and how the brand was doing. So I listened to that. Then there is a BBC podcast, which is a global news update. There is a podcast called Fact versus Fiction, which is by Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That's again, I mean, I'm hearing it a lot during the coronavirus times.
00:17:06
Speaker
And last but not the least, Instagram is a big source of news for me, especially in the fashion domain because I've kind of very nicely followed the accounts which are like the voices in fashion.
00:17:22
Speaker
So, you know, these are editors, these are stylists, these are some of the very big designers. So when they put up their work or they put up like where they're traveling or what they're doing, it gives you a sense of where the world is moving in the fashion industry. I think that for me is like my knowledge. Got this. So definitely a tough question. Imagine you were told that you will have to move out of Benetton for whatever reasons, personal, professional, whatever. And you have to find a replacement for yourself could be that person to have that replaces you.
00:17:55
Speaker
I think, you know, at my role, I feel creativity is something that is non-negotiable because the way I think Benetton is structured in India, we are independent when it comes to our social media, you know, to curate our content ourselves, we have to do our campaigns ourselves and literally every bit of content that goes out is thought in-house. So I think creativity would be non-negotiable to begin with.
00:18:12
Speaker
considering it's a huge hypothetical question.
00:18:22
Speaker
I'm kind of taking it as a rider that the rest of the skills in anyone who is going to be a marketeer would be there. But I think again I can't stress it enough that creativity is something that has to be on a top notch and a high game.
00:18:38
Speaker
So you just touched upon the fact that at Belkin India, you do most of the things in house. So that is a question that a lot of people wanted us to ask you that, you know, if you manage an international brand in India, I mean, obviously we have one of your, I mean, you are an example, but there are tons of other brands in India.
00:18:54
Speaker
that are international in their, you know, origin. So how does it work with their, let's say the international brand teams and the local nuances in terms of, you know, how do you, how do you marry the team? What is it at the end now? How do you do it? Okay, so I think first to begin with,
00:19:09
Speaker
I know a lot of friends who work in a similar setup where they're working for a local region and they have an international team. See, it's very, very subjective to how the brand really wants to position in each region because I also know of certain brands that have zero interference policy. So if they give you a marketing deck, you are blindly supposed to just replicate it because they're very, very concerned about the global imagery.
00:19:35
Speaker
But if you really talk about Benetton, and in the past few years, Benetton has created a local dialogue with customers. So we run a united by a series. And in that united by a series, we really try to address topics that are India related, that are not global. The essence of everything that we do relies in the global heritage. So we always talk about society, social, which has been the branding
00:20:00
Speaker
But yeah, I think there can't be like one answer to this question because each brand is very very unique in how they want to position it. But yeah, for Benetton, since last about five years, we've started doing a lot of local content. Cool. So let's talk of the hot
00:20:17
Speaker
What do you think the consumer would change as an impact of COVID? And B, how do you think the business of communication will
Impact of COVID-19 on Digital Marketing
00:20:24
Speaker
change as an impact? I see the business, the way we were headed towards digital adoption, I think we are heading in the same direction. It's just that we've leapfrogged decades maybe. What had to happen a decade from now has started happening because people are locked down and the only way that you can be connected is digitally.
00:20:44
Speaker
Brands who had a contribution of a certain percentage, X and Y split between digital and traditional, of course, for the time being, traditional has been dominant over the rest of the traditional media, which I feel eventually will equate out. It's just a very sudden change till the time the vaccine doesn't come about, till the time sentiment is not leveled up.
00:21:04
Speaker
communication overall I feel you know this has been a big reset and a reboot in a lot of ways and people have started questioning a lot of brands existence their responsibility because the whole sustainability angle attached with covid has been has has been everywhere you know people are talking about pollution people are talking about climate change people are talking about sustainability people are talking about responsible brands so I think in
00:21:27
Speaker
Future the brands who have probably not paid attention to the social and the humanitarian aspect of their brand's purpose are going to have a run for their money. Brands are going to become more responsible when they communicate. They're going to become kinder when they communicate. At least that's the change that I foresee in the news.
00:21:45
Speaker
And while we are at this, tell me some interesting campaigns that you've seen from other brands. They may or may not be competitors, but what have you seen on the internet that some of the brands that have done interesting work around
00:22:00
Speaker
Covid. See, I kind of feel that there is not immediately anything that comes to my mind because I feel there has actually been an effort by a lot of brands to do a lot of things. So there is this brand called DeliVid. So DeliVid was, I chanced upon this form, login form, where if you enter your details, your name, your address and whatever, they send you a care package. Yeah.
00:22:25
Speaker
And I remember my husband and I were sitting and we just filled it up randomly because we were both from the same industry and a lot curious about brands and a few days later we received a package and that had a bottle of sanitizer, it had a few masks and it had a pair of gloves.
00:22:44
Speaker
And I was zapped and surprised. And they did it free of cost. They basically were trying to help people who did. Because if you remember the start of COVID in India, just when the lockdown was announced, every drug shop, every chemist shop had run out of these stuff. So people were finding it very difficult to get their hands on sanitizer and mask.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, and I think a brand, logistical brand, which is not even a B2C brand, like delivery primarily operates in a B2B sphere, but for them to do something unpaid for people who are in need, I thought I was a great gesture. Funny thing now, I'm thinking about it.
00:23:21
Speaker
I don't think delivery has anything to sell to you, right? If it was done by, say, a McDonald's. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. They don't work. They don't operate in a B2C setup. They operate in a B2C setup. But I think that was a great move by them.
00:23:38
Speaker
So yeah, that's interesting. Nobody else has told me. And so this was only in Delhi, it was a pan interview. I'm not too sure about it. But I mean, it's safe to assume that it was in Delhi NCR. At least it was there. It was at least in Delhi NCR. At least in Delhi NCR. So okay, tell me what opportunities do you see getting created as an aftermath? Like if I told you, you know,
00:24:03
Speaker
So what opportunities do you see have an opening up around us? See, I do feel that people have taken a lot of interest in their health in the last two months. People have started talking about topics like nutrition. Like I am a nutrition freak. I have this huge do's and don'ts list that I have given out to my family. They're not supposed to
00:24:26
Speaker
drink water after the meal. And I kind of feel that, you know, those are not baseless. Some of those things are very, very scientific. It's just that people don't really know the science behind it. So I feel that in India specifically, we do not have a lot of nutrition schools. We do not have a lot of focus on nutrition, which I feel would eventually come around because, see, at the end of the day, they say that getting COVID, recovering from COVID is an immunity game. You don't have medicines, you don't have a vaccine.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah. So people have to invest in immunity and there are ways you can invest in immunity. The first way is that you change your lifestyle and eat good food. And a lot of people don't even know about the basic macros and micros that you're getting in the food. So I think nutrition as a space is really... You know, young, fluent for the phenomena or will it change the consumer behavior from the younger? See,
00:25:16
Speaker
I can tell you for a fact that people in the rural segment eat more nutritious food than people in the urban segment because people in the rural segment are not going to binge on your chips and pizzas and they would eventually just eat dal roti rice which is way more healthy than what urban people eat and I also feel that the whole because see why do you need knowledge you basically need knowledge when you have a choice and choice only exists in the urban phenomena
00:25:44
Speaker
Like a rural person doesn't have a choice, should I eat a healthy food? The choice is in the urban guy and the urban guy has to decide do I need to go to a McDonald's or do I need to go to a pizza hut or should I eat a khichdi at my home. So I think that's the opportunity. People are going to go get to work from home. What are those three more interesting things that you're doing?
00:26:06
Speaker
to ensure that the team is still as closely bound as it would be if they were in an office. What are those interesting technology tools that you're using to do that? I am not someone who has done virtual coffee dates with my team at all. You know, I kind of feel that that's a
00:26:21
Speaker
compulsive right we all are doing dishes we are vacuuming hard making food i think i think my team is i mean my team and i we are enough bonded to survive this and i have actually given them a lot of time to create a good bond and good relationship between us because i feel all of us are under a lot of stress you know we're not just working from home we are
00:26:43
Speaker
working for the home also. So actually, coincidentally, I have not tried to do any team bonding activity. In fact, whatever little time I feel is spare, I've just let them be where they are and give their time to family or whatever housework. That's a unique one because nobody else has sort of given me this answer.
00:27:02
Speaker
That's why I was saying that I'm not really sure this is right. It just felt right given the team that I have that I just because because they're both young and I know that they are with their families so they would have a lot of work to do so which is why I've like given them time to be on their own. So tell me what would be very very hard for marketing professionals in general in the times to come?
00:27:23
Speaker
Events, events, events. That's the hardest thing because I do not, personally speaking, I do not think that virtual events can replace physical events. I really don't think so because the fact when you enter into a set and how you experience an installation, I'm not sure if you can replicate it virtually.
00:27:42
Speaker
Everything else in my head has an alternative, but not events as such, you know? So I definitely feel that experience, how consumers experience brand, how media experiences a brand, I'm not really sure how that's going to shape up. So what, and what about marketing? Let's say, for example, if I'm passing out of college this year, what skills do I need to have apart from core marketing knowledge to be able to, you know, impress a boss, impress applying and get things done?
00:28:10
Speaker
I mostly don't think that any short-term skill is ever of importance. I do feel that, and I go back to the point where I started and maybe I'm overusing it, but I think it's just knowing the culture more, knowing and understanding what's happening around you. What sometimes happens is sometimes some very normal things, common things, we just ignore them. But they need to be registered. You need to take note of these.
00:28:37
Speaker
So I feel as marketeers, you just need to know where is the world headed. For example, I can tell you for now I'm hearing and it's not a very personal opinion that I give you, but I know a lot of people who have never in their life heard of podcast, are hearing to podcast. So I feel that is increasing. A lot of people who were not very fond of OTT content have started subscribing to Netflix.
00:28:59
Speaker
So I think these little things that you just need to capture, pay attention to, and then whenever you're doing your marketing strategies, whenever you're doing your consumer analysis, you just need to be conscious of where the world is. That's very important. Okay, I'm going to ask you another controversial question that may have a controversial answer. What are some of the most abused and cringe-inducing jargons that you've come across?
00:29:24
Speaker
I think the biggest jargon that I come across is integrated marketing. I know it makes sense in a lot of ways, but I find it really, it pisses me off to a certain extent because, and I know a lot of people would have an argument to saying that integrated marketing is required, but I feel that even a unique channel marketing can do wonders.
00:29:50
Speaker
I think you need to be very, very sure of what the objective is. And I know some of the campaigns that have happened only on Instagram, only on Instagram, but everybody knows about them. So I feel that integrated marketing, there was a point where it would work because the consumer demographic was demand, but now I feel is the time where you have very clear cut filters of where you can find your audience. So the overlap should be reduced so that the expense to the company gets reduced.
00:30:19
Speaker
And I am very, very certain of that if marketers pay more attention to it, there can be a unique channel marketing strategies that can work really well. And again, it's a very, very, very personal opinion. It's very personal to what I think of marketing strategies as well.
00:30:34
Speaker
So disclaimer to all the people listening to this conversation, we are talking to Jasleen, the individual, not the marketing manager at UCB. So can't stress that enough. So tell me what is your opinion on things like AR and VR and emerging technology that apparently makes the life of the market easier?
00:30:56
Speaker
I have mixed opinions, both good and bad. I feel some things have an alternate and I feel some things don't have an alternate. When we're talking about a virtual reality, yes, it can come in very handy when you're trying to, say, do a virtual shopping tour. But if you're trying to get up and close with a particular product or if you're trying to see a fit and a style, a virtual reality might not even be close to the reality, the real reality.
00:31:25
Speaker
So it's a mixed bag right now because I think this whole era is in the nascent stage of both AR and VR. But I do feel if you really ask me my bet, I put my bets on AR and VR because I do think this is going to be the future of Monterey.
00:31:41
Speaker
So in your opinion, which will battle data driven marketing or core insights led marketing that is dependent on low creativity? See, I think I would like to answer it in a way that when you're talking about FMCG products, I think data is always going to win because it's working on a very, very big scale. But I think when you're talking about more value added products, like more value proposition products,
00:32:07
Speaker
I feel the insights are going to win because see what happens is when you're talking about, okay, I'll give a very, very hypothetical example. When you're talking about something like a Mercedes Benz, you know, when you're talking about experience and experience comes core with some of these luxury brands, some of these premium brands. That's where I think insights play a huge role because it's higher buck that the consumer's doing.
00:32:32
Speaker
But with FMCG, because it's a huge scale and economies are high, I feel data will add more value. I think I like to answer that way. So what is your take on these girls and boys next door becoming influencers on these platforms like TikTok lately and the Instagram in the world?
Insights on Influencer Marketing
00:32:50
Speaker
What is your take on that? See, I will give you, and this is one thing that I've been doing since last, at least seven years of my career, I feel
00:32:59
Speaker
Till the time an influencer is a content factory. It is great, right? I mean, if I talk about, and I would take a name, if I talk about someone like a Prajakta Kohli, if I talk about someone like a Sejal Kumar.
00:33:14
Speaker
These influencers are working hard on their content. And when you see their content, every time it's something fresh, you like to watch it. But if you're talking about another influencer who does a video on how this skincare routine will give me a flawless skin, that's not going to work. So I think influencers are going to stay, which is not something that I thought five years back. But I see this today. Influencer marketing is going to stay. But it completely depends on the content creator.
00:33:43
Speaker
You know, the content has to be much more than the product. The content has to have a story and everything that goes on your feed needs to tell your personality. I think if those things, those ingredients are right, influencer marketing, especially these influencers are going to do. So what happens is on the influencer piece, a lot of these agencies, creative agencies and digital agencies will go to a client and say that, you know, for your particular business problem, here is this young girl who has a five million kind of a following.
00:34:12
Speaker
And here is an idea, let's marry the two and get her to be a mouthpiece for our idea, for our communication. That's approach A. Approach B is a brand like yours approaches and influence directly and says that, you know, you are a young person who understands technology, content, community and the audience well. What do you think should be the idea for us to go ahead? Which of the two approaches do you think works better for you?
00:34:37
Speaker
see it again you I know you will say that I give you diplomatic answers but you know it can't be one way yeah definitely can't be one way I'll tell you why think of it as a as a marriage between a boy and a girl yeah
00:34:51
Speaker
The boy has to like the girl and the girl has to like the boy. The thing is, there can't be an answer to it. It can't be a one-way street because you are entering into the influencer's audience, right? You are entering into the influencer's audience. Nobody knows that audience more than the influencer. And if you're talking about the brand that the influencer has to endorse, nobody knows the brand better than the brand itself.
00:35:14
Speaker
So I definitely say that and in fact there has to be a very fruitful and a productive communication between both the parties because there are two personalities coming together, there are two images coming together. So it has to matter, there is no other. And if I were to ask you to pick between the celebrity influencers, let's say film stars, intricators,
00:35:35
Speaker
versus these people next door, the ones that we spoke about, which one would you prefer? Or is it again both ways? No, this is not both ways. See, this is based on your strategy. See, if you have deep pockets to invest into celebrities,
00:35:50
Speaker
You take celebrities, of course, you can't beat celebrities on reach. But the fact is that I know some of the brands who have never taken celebrities, but they have consistently taken their influencers, spread out their budget evenly through the year and gotten great results. So I think that these are two functions. One is function of a consistency because once you do a carpet bombing event and then you're selling the entire year,
00:36:16
Speaker
might not work for a lot of brands, you know, they keep that push through the year. So for that push and to make your budgets more sustainable, you try to get on influencers and celebrities. So I think it depends on what your budgets really look like. The next question, the thing is that, you know, so what is your take on surrogate marketing? You know, there are a lot of categories that can't really use mainline communication channels, even digital channels to promote themselves. So they often, you know,
00:36:44
Speaker
come up with mineral water and they come with plain cards and they come up with funny things to promote themselves. So what does it take on those?
00:36:52
Speaker
See I feel at the end of the day it's all about brand recall and if you're able to establish the recall without getting into a cannibalization or you know a thought cannibalization like I'll give you an example I read this somewhere and I'll just also research that I'm not quoting it wrong but Vadila which is an ice cream company yeah also has petrol pumps yeah exactly so the and they had petrol pumps earlier than the ice creams
00:37:22
Speaker
And people did not want to buy ice creams from them because they found it very repulsive. So I feel till the time only adds growth and fuel to your existing and main category, your cash cow brands. It's all good. It increases your brand recall good for you, but it should not be something that is very counter to what your main line product is, I feel. So tell me, what are your favorite gadgets and what should the marketer acquire themselves with? Like what should we invest in?
00:37:51
Speaker
I actually, I think the biggest, not the biggest I would say, but the most prominent investment and the recent investment I did on my AirPods. We have made my life easier than anything in the world.
00:38:06
Speaker
because I'm plugged onto my AirPods, I don't even care about the wire and I'm taking my calls day in and day out because see, as a marketeer and I'm very sure I speak on behalf of all the marketeers, you have plethora of calls in a day and I think you survive on calls. Yeah, so I think it's very important for you to also, like I ensure that I'm walking when I'm doing my calls, I'm not sitting on one place. So are you walking right now?
00:38:32
Speaker
See, this is on the back top honestly, so I'm not going to be sitting on a single place. I kind of feel as a marketeer, one thing that's really increased my productivity has been AirPods, and I'm any which way a big Apple fan. So yeah. So there was this question on Twitter, somebody had asked, some big VC had asked a question on Twitter, it said,
00:38:54
Speaker
What was that one purchase under 10,000 rupees that you made, that made your life significantly better? And you'd be surprised that 80% of people said airports.
00:39:05
Speaker
I'm not surprised because I, you know, sort of, I was never the person who could have headphones on in my ears like these earbuds in my ear. I don't know. I think I have funny ears. Okay. There's a weird structure. So no headphone really grips very well. And it keeps falling off. So I always had a terrible time. Tell the time somebody told me that you should try airports and I thought, well, it's going to be the same thing. What big deal? Like, no, you know, there's something about them.
00:39:33
Speaker
And they fit in my ear like a glove. I was like, oh my God, I've never had anything fit in my ear so well. So I am not surprised. I'm a big fan of AirPods. So if you were to gift a couple of books, things, tools, ideas to your team, each member of your team, what would you pick?
00:39:53
Speaker
I think there's this HBR series volume of books that's by Strategy Innovation. There's this book called Mindfulness. I think I'm going to either give them an HBR membership, or I'm actually going to buy a couple of HBR books and give them. I have huge faith on all the Harvard researchers. And some of their articles have really been biblical to me. So yeah, I'm going to give that to my team.
00:40:21
Speaker
So, Justine, I'm towards the last three, four questions that I have for you. Tell me, when I was researching about you to understand who you are before I could ask you questions, I realized that you were super, super active on LinkedIn. And when I say active, you were actually contributing to the community by pointing at the right articles you need, asking them to find opportunities in these times.
00:40:45
Speaker
So if I wanted you to give me a crash course in LinkedIn, what are those three or four tips that I can take from you?
00:40:53
Speaker
I think for me, LinkedIn has been very intuitive and I think that's where I have an edge because I've tried to incorporate my LinkedIn post. No, sorry, take inspiration of my LinkedIn post from whatever happens in my day-to-day life. I don't really have any set strategy. I think the only strategy is that whatever happens through my day, if there's any experience that stands out, I think, and it's professional. I think that's also one thing I do not, do not,
00:41:19
Speaker
on my LinkedIn ever try to put out any personal content. That's, that's a big, big rule. But I think intuitively, if there's anything professionally that I feel strongly about that goes on my LinkedIn, I haven't really given a big brain to it. If you were to reverse the roles, and if I were to, if you were to ask me a question, what would that mean? What's that one thing? What's that common thing that you found interviewing all the marketers? Okay. Interesting, because throughout their lives is something that they would look for in people.
00:41:49
Speaker
So, for example, if somebody has changed five jobs, for example, they would not want to look at a candidate that has stayed in the same industry for five years, but they look at various experiences that that person has had over those last five years. So that's learning, the ability to learn continuously is what I think most people have come back to me with. Yours is obviously a unique one, creativity, because I think your business requires a lot of that, but for other people, it was learning.
00:42:14
Speaker
I actually like that perspective because I also know age-old HR practices would really want to gauge you on how loyal you were to a company and how long did you spend at a company. So I think that's a very refreshing perspective, what you say. I think that has changed because most people that I've spoken to, they're absolutely okay if you've spent two years with five companies over a period of 10 years. Do you want to talk about a time when you failed miserably at a project? It could be at Benetton or it could be at Canon or it could be at
00:42:42
Speaker
even a college for that matter. I actually will take this up because I'll be honest it's taken me a long while to come to terms with this and I feel it's important now what happens is when you're at a leadership position everybody thinks that you've been doing things perfectly ever since you know you know everything
00:43:01
Speaker
you've never failed and I think that's such a big misconception because I did my first ever event and that was in Dubai. I'm not going to give you any more details but I did the worst job of it, the worst ever job of it. I can't even tell you the kind of failures I had in that event and I just thought that I'm never going to be able to show my face to anyone after this and that day I thought that you know marketing is not for me. I should quit because I'm not made for it.
00:43:28
Speaker
But it took me a lot of years and I think it's probably after some eight years that I'm talking about it. It's also taken a lot of strength to come to terms with it that, you know, if you fail once, it doesn't mean that you will fail every time and you will not be able to rise up. And actually, I really want to say this to everyone out there to ever fail. Please do not hang on to that memory.
00:43:50
Speaker
I mean, hang on to the lessons of that memory, but do not hang on to the embarrassment of that memory because you obviously do a better job of it in the times to come because you've learned out of it. So I miserably, miserably failed in one very, very big event in my life. A physical event where there were people who flew from India to Dubai and
00:44:10
Speaker
It was a disaster event. So there are going to be many such failures coming your way. And that's the truth. I'm not supporting it, but that's the truth because you learn as you go. I think the fact that I've taken so long to come to terms with it also speaks of the volumes that how much judgment there is in the industry in a workplace.
00:44:32
Speaker
And there will always be. So I think we just need to be strong enough to find our own power resources and our own ways of getting over it. But yeah, everybody once in a lifetime, at least once in a lifetime does encounter that big failure that, you know, becomes their go to memory, which is fine. And you just need to get out of it. I have two more questions. One is an easy one. One is a tough one.
00:44:55
Speaker
So I'm going to ask the tough one first. What is it that you hate about the profession of marketing?
Ethical Dilemmas in Marketing
00:45:02
Speaker
I don't think there's anything that I hate in my job except the fact that I know some of my peers, marketing peers, have to sell products that they will never use. I feel I will find that a little bit of catch-22 situation because you're doing that as a profession but you might never consume those products yourself. And absolutely last question Justine I have is
00:45:23
Speaker
If you were to throw open marketing challenge to our listeners, these could be students, these could be mid-level marketing managers, agencies, whatever. What would you want them to work on for you?
00:45:34
Speaker
Yeah, I have a very interesting question and I'll be very upfront with you. That's like my mental exercise. So what I think of is I think of these situations where there's a random merger and acquisition that's happened. Okay. I come to think of it, for example, what if tomorrow you hear Netflix has been acquired by Google? What do you think
00:45:56
Speaker
Netflix is going to do. I think when you try and marry some of these interesting brands, because every brand in today's day, it has a very strong ideology and a personality. I think you just open a creative canvas for you to think how things can possibly be, you know, what are the larger unseen venues or ways to talk to consumers.
00:46:20
Speaker
For example, there was a long time when I kept on thinking that what if one day, when I was back at Canon and I used to think about it, what if one day Canon is acquired by Google? What will happen? What will change? Because when you think of those hypothetical situations, you just think of the facts that you mostly ignore in your day-to-day life. That's worked for many reasons. That's right.
00:46:42
Speaker
So I call these things thought experiments and what I typically do the same is when I am writing my book. So I try to do a lot of these thought experiments to understand the character. So that helps me at least in writing the book, but I never thought about from the marketing perspective. That's nice. That's interesting. No, try it. You'll be really intrigued. Cool. So much the scene. It was great, great fun talking to you. Insane and amazing. Thank you so much.
00:47:10
Speaker
That was Just Lean from Benetton. Hope you enjoyed the conversation and please write in to us and tell us how do we improve the Marketing Connect Podcast for you.