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Episode 5 - BETRAYAL, Breakdowns, & Bouncing Back
47 Plays7 months ago
Betrayal sucks—but you don’t have to let it break you. In this hilariously honest episode, our two best friends take a deep dive into the messy world of infidelity. Join them in sharing their own raw stories of betrayal, the emotional rollercoaster that followed, and the unexpected ways it impacted their confidence, health, and sanity. With their signature mix of humor and insight, they’ll unpack how to pick up the pieces, rebuild your self-esteem, and rediscover self-love after someone breaks your trust. Whether you’re laughing or learning, this episode is all about turning heartbreak into healing—and finding the strength to move forward. Don’t miss this candid conversation on bouncing back and reclaiming your worth - because trust us, you deserve better.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, I'm Melissa. And I'm Zoe. Welcome to Whore's Divorce. I said it wrong that time. You did. You're dead. You're so mixed up. The podcast where we navigate life as two divorced best friends in their late twenties. We're just doing this for fun, mainly because our friends have told us that our stories are worth sharing and we'll take any excuse just to talk to each other. We'll talk about all sorts of things based on our own experiences, what we've learned through our divorces.
00:00:24
Speaker
from heartbreak to getting back out there, to really just finding yourself after divorce or really any major breakup in your life. Disclaimer! We're not doing this to shit on our exes. We both went through something really shitty and making them feel worse doesn't make us feel any better. So this is just to share our stories, what we've learned, relate to others who might be going through the same thing, and really just give ourselves some therapy and something just fun to do together.
Betrayal and Emotional Impact
00:00:58
Speaker
Okay, so today we're gonna talk about... Betrayal. Betrayal. No, really, we're gonna talk about betrayal. So how it felt when we figured out that we had been cheated on. And how and in general, like how infidelity and betrayal can impact your own self-esteem. And also how to rebuild yourself after betrayal. Rebuild.
00:01:26
Speaker
We were first going to talk a little bit about our own backgrounds. Obviously, we talked about this in our first episode, so we won't get into much detail. But I think as a background, I guess before I was cheated on. Betrayed. Betrayed. It's going to turn into, what was it? Negologue. Negologue. Betrayal. I always felt like a pretty secure person. And I did want to say, like we want to do a whole episode on attachment styles which we won't get much into here but like I always had like a pretty secure relationship with myself and with my partner and are I feel like a pretty high self esteem but you know after you get cheated on that definitely crumbles
00:02:08
Speaker
one No matter who you are. I don't know. I feel like my experience was completely different because I wasn't a very secure person or, and I had kind of lower self-esteem. And then I feel like it got kind of built up when I was with my person, found out I was betrayed. And then honestly, I was kind of like, fuck this, I don't need this. And my self-esteem got higher. That's interesting. Fluctuation though. There was definitely periods of like, wow, I feel like like afterwards or like during, during and like afterwards. Yeah. The healing journey part. The journey. Because I also feel like in your relationship, there were moments of like mini betray. Yes. And so, and maybe not like. Lots of ebbs and flows. Yeah. Maybe not betrayal, but like things that. Yeah. That person would do to maybe impact yourself a seam. Yeah. And so I feel like it kind of, I don't know how it felt for you, but always like.
00:02:56
Speaker
not good not good okay so i was just gonna give like a brief kind of replaying the story of what happened when i found out and how it felt I remember, I feel like this feels so stupid to say, but I remember it being like the last thing in my mind that this person was cheating on me because I just was like, oh, I'm so great. Who would do that? But I'm so good. And I remember when I first found out, I don't know about you, but like the feeling is hard to describe. like it it's actually like
00:03:27
Speaker
I feel like people overuse the word disgust and disgusting, but it felt like sickening, like physically made me sick. Yeah. so yeah it's I mean, and like gut wrenching, I feel like, is another thing. But it is like it is something in your stomach area that is like nauseated and just like so uncomfortable. And like ah yeah, I don't know how to describe it either. But I remember, so there was like a long time of one after I found out and like trying to work things out. And then I found out again that it was still happening regardless of after I was told it was and it had stopped. And I remember the second time I found out it was so physically disgusting to me. I actually called you. I um i got a phone call from the person that was playing a role in the betrayal. And after that phone call, I hung up. I walked to my bathroom and I called you and my brother and I vomited.
00:04:22
Speaker
It just felt so disgusting. I don't know how else to describe it, but like it just made me like physically sick that someone you love and you care about so much just has like no regard for you. Yeah, it's like nauseating to think about like literally what that other person was doing. But then it's also nauseating, I think, in the way of your whole like world is like tumbling around and it's like so uncertain, and maybe that makes it nauseated like what cuz you're like spinning around okay so I mean aside from that and I think well I mean we asked you like did I don't know like what was the initial thoughts feelings as soon as you found out cuz I was I was there when you're finding out like I just um
00:05:10
Speaker
I feel like I was finding out live. like You were like, yeah, yeah, cuz I had received messages and that's how I found out about it. Once I found out I was screenshotting things to you and I'm like, what the hell is going on? And so it was finding out that first time and I just remember being so angry and in such disbelief, but then like even then like really quickly being like, fuck this, like I do not need this. But then still, there was a delay period where I was like, okay, well, maybe we can work through this, things will be fine.
00:05:38
Speaker
And then finding out, again, that the exact same thing wasn't still going on, but other really shitty things were going on. And once I found out about that, I mean, I saw Red. I almost broke his laptop. I mean, just the utter, like, rage I felt. It was less... There were periods where I felt, like, nauseous and everything, but it was more, like, in the moment was... You had a lot more anger. Yeah. You had a lot more anger. I think I was definitely very angry the second I found out, like, when I was on the phone with... person and I figured it out then I was like I said some really like hateful and like vicious things to this person and I feel guilty about that sometimes but I'm like wait should I feel guilty about that I don't know anyway that's a whole other thing that's all I think that's a side part but
00:06:21
Speaker
Anger is definitely the first feeling I felt, but then after that it sat in, it was like nausea and like, yeah, thinking about what's going on. It's when things calm down and it's just like, and you really get to think about exactly what happened. That's when you get nausea. That's when you get sick. And then, and then what sets in is like,
00:06:36
Speaker
the mental emotional issues of like at least for me and i guess you said in a way you're kind of like fuck it and maybe this part didn't impact you as much i don't know but like for me it was like i felt like shit about myself i was like what is it about me that this person like didn't like or didn't want wise why did they choose someone else why is that person better and remembering like I distinctly like looking in the mirror in my bedroom and be like, what is it about me? Like, what is it? This person always put me on a pedestal and made me feel like I was so great and so beautiful. And it's like, why, like, what, what is it about me that's not as good? And I got like hyper fixated on that and we'll... I know we were going to have like a separate episode on like body image and like body dysmorphia and like eating disorders and stuff but like that's where it kind of started for me it was like there's something that's like inadequate about me that like the person that I love would choose someone over me.
00:07:31
Speaker
I mean, yeah, like i I definitely will definitely talk about the body dysmorphia a bit, because definitely went through that phase. i just I guess the only thing I can express with my journey was it was just so many like ebbs and flows. Wait, like during your marriage? you're like No, during my the divorce and the healing process was very like, yeah, like I would feel great and like I don't deserve that. I can do so much better. like I'm better off without him, yada, yada. and then There were times where I would be alone, like none of my friends could hang out over the weekend or something. And I think I texted to you one time and I was like, I just feel so alone and whatever. But that's when I would hit a low period and I'm like.
00:08:08
Speaker
Nobody wants me like I don't know i just you know you hit this period of like why am I not good enough? Like why was somebody else chosen above me? Like what did I do wrong and for me like yeah, it was a lot of body dysmorphia issues and but it was also a lot of like was I not was I not caring enough and I think that also ties in like gaslighting and shit that I I won't get into it right now, but maybe that's a topic later, but I think it was a lot of destructive patterns within the relationship itself that fed into it for the healing part. Yeah. I definitely remember like you were going through a lot with like your dad, and I think what you're saying makes so much sense. is like A lot of it was physical. Maybe you're feeling bad about yourself physically, but a lot of it was like you were saying, like
00:08:54
Speaker
Excuse me, like were you carrying it off and stuff? Because you were in a really dark place and this person kind of made you feel like you were... Yeah, there was a quote from therapy that he had said, you lost your dad, but I feel like I lost my wife. And that really put me in my head of like, oh, like i I haven't been there enough for you. Like, this is my fault. Which, oh that's so bad. Yeah. So I got right past that, don't you worry. Yes. but Through that idea in the trash, what belongs?
Psychological Effects and Trust Issues
00:09:33
Speaker
So there are tons of studies on the profound effects of infidelity that can have on an individual's mental health. So we're kind of going to talk about some of that and the core psychological impacts associated with experiencing a partner's unfaithfulness. Zoe, do you have one you want to kick us off with? I will start emotional distress. is so stress And we just emphasize like that. Okay, so obviously, finding out someone's cheating on you can lead to intense emotional reactions. Like we were saying, you feel betrayed, you have anger, you're sad, and these can manifest, which might have rage, and these can manifest physically, which is so interesting is like your emotions when they manifest physically turn into like nausea or like increased heart rate.
00:10:20
Speaker
Shaking, sweating, all these things. Yeah, it's like having like a panic attack. you know Those yeah there are physical symptoms when it's really just something in your head. Right, and that's what you're saying. like You're seeing red and how I was like you got literally vomiting. Yeah, yeah it's like it's it does cause emotional distress. Another one is anxiety and depression. So infidelity is linked to heightened anxiety and depression, which Zoe and I are all too familiar with, unfortunately.
00:10:47
Speaker
oh go listen to our People Pleasers episode. There's a lot of that. I think you're anxiety and I'm stressed. You are, and you were happy about it either. I wasn't. You were like, I don't want to be stressed. Nobody wants to be stressed. Nobody wants to be stressed. Nobody wants to be anxiety. But basically, you're just like, whatever, keep going. I'm so anxious about it Zoe. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so basically if someone has been cheated on, they'll become or they may become preoccupied with the actual act of the infidelity which leads to chronic stress and depressive episodes. Which I totally get because as I've been kind of
00:11:21
Speaker
I can't say like I didn't, but like, as I've tried to have relationships with other people, it has weight on me. It's like, all right, well, when's this person gonna cheat on me? Or like, when's this person going to decide that I'm not good enough anymore? And I hate that. My friend Astra was telling me, she's like, when I get in my head about this, she said something that I should tell myself and she tells herself is like, well, I'm great. I am amazing. Why would anyone, like, who wouldn't want to be with me or, you know, like,
00:11:48
Speaker
I don't know, sometimes you have to be silly and remind yourself of that because I do get in like my head a lot more now because of what's happened. When I thought, particularly because probably I thought it was like never going to happen and it blindsided me and now I'm like, okay, at any time it can blindside me again. Yeah, I think for me it's different like because you you still are, but you were a very secure person and had really high self esteem and like I wasn't so much. And then also the duration of my relationship.
00:12:16
Speaker
there was a few periods where my self-esteem kind of took a blow and that anxiety would kick in. So I think like the actual act that ended my marriage was less dramatic for me. Wow. You know? That's so interesting. That is so interesting to think about.
00:12:35
Speaker
And I remember also, I was impressed with you, but now I look back and I'm like, you probably were like, and you're not as impressed. No, no, no. I'm like, wow. Yeah, seriously. I think about you were grieving and just to take another hit, like another punch.
00:12:50
Speaker
I think, to some extent, do you feel like you were a little bit more numb to what happened because you were... Oh, probably. You know, I haven't thought about it like that. Depressed? Yeah, it's like, okay, well, now another fucking thing. Yeah, let's keep it coming. Keep it coming. I can take it. The fucking gallbladder tries to get out of my body and just, you know, whatever. Just one thing after another. So, I don't know if that also made it so that... i don't say I don't say it's easier by any means, but yeah it was like, in comparison to the other things you're going through, you're like, well, yeah out of the fucking list, you know? What else you got? Yeah, is what i mean know but there was a lot of like side quests if you will Yeah of healing from losing my dad and everything. So I'm like, you know Thank you ex for giving me a little distraction. Yes. Yeah Anyway sarcasm. Okay. So this one is probably related to what I was just talking about more so but PTSD which sounds so I know people who are like, that's ridiculous You don't have to go to war to have PTSD. Thank you
00:13:46
Speaker
It's just post-traumatic stress, right? So you develop symptoms after infidelity. You're like kind of experiencing those intrusive thoughts. You have flashbacks and emotional numbness. And that definitely was happening to me. like I remember kind of just like ruminating or stewing on what happened and I would think about it a lot and it would just bring those same emotions back like in cycles. ah Just being so fixated on what happened and like reliving it in my head and like torturing myself. Yeah. That would happen to me a lot.
00:14:18
Speaker
I think maybe early on that happened to me where I would think back on all the details and really get worked up about it. I think now, unless somebody gets me talking about it, like this. Unless it's like now, or right now. But for me, it's more the emotional numbness aspect of it. I think there is a limit of how much emotional stress your body can take, and you just eventually shut down. And I definitely have experienced that.
00:14:45
Speaker
So, yeah. but Another one
Infidelity Statistics and Society
00:14:47
Speaker
is decreased self-esteem. So, it can significantly lower your self-esteem if you've been cheated on, which often leads to people questioning their self-worth and their desirability. You know, if anybody will ever want to be with them again, you know, how they look, how do they come off with their personality, you know, just how do other people view them, which I feel like also is tied into the people pleasing.
00:15:07
Speaker
because you get really worked up about. Yeah, no. No, that's true. it's like It all ties back together, right? like You have decreased self-esteem. You want people to accept you and love you, and then you become sometimes a people loser. Yeah. Cycle. The washing machine begins. Start the cycle. Start it. I'm gentle, please. Please. Please.
00:15:28
Speaker
Okay, so those are like the four key psychological impacts and I think now we're gonna get into some like fun facts because all this is so fun. Some super fun facts about betrayal.
00:15:48
Speaker
we hit Really quick sidebar. Do you remember when we went to the Battery, which is a, how do you describe Battery? um It's like at a baseball stadium, but it's like a whole little city inside of there. but your hands up so um so okay um but no It's It's like three bars in one. Oh, no, the whole battery is. God, this is a horrible explanation. Everyone that listens is probably like Atlanta-based, too, and they're like, what? No, it's at the Brave Stadium, and it's, yeah, it is like a whole city. like There's restaurants, and there's bars, and there's
00:16:21
Speaker
It was a mechanical bull in one of the bars. yeah So anyway, the point is, do you remember we went there many, many moons ago? Okay, that's not true. Like last year sometime. mean That seems like a lifetime ago. And we were dancing and there was this guy that we were on this little stage and this guy asked me for my phone number. yeah Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yes. And you did not want to give it.
00:16:39
Speaker
And I came in, like, security. But I gave it to him. And what's so weird is I gave it to him. He kind of texted, and I was like, I didn't really text him. Months later, I was out with my work friends at a different bar. And we were sitting outside because they were closing it. And he sat next to us with a girl that he had brought to the bar. Yes. And he looked at me, and I looked at him. I was like, oh my god, it's that guy. It was so weird. And he texted me to make sure it was like the same. I was like, yep, that's him. So it was like, Vality, that's the same person. And he ended up going home with that girl.
00:17:09
Speaker
he texted me the next day and he's like, thanks for being so cool about, you know, you know, me and the girl. I was like, what, like, sure. land you live outside You're welcome. and that i responded you you're welcome And he sent me so many texts like over the course of, I don't know, a couple days or I don't know how long, but just to like see if I was interested in him. And I was like, you literally left with another girl. Yeah. I'm like, why would I be? And He would periodically text me here and there. He just texts me it right now, like while we're sitting here, he's like, oh, he's shooting another shot, because why not? I'm just like out of the blue. At least he can rhyme. You know what? Honestly, yeah. Remember that was, yeah, that was one of our things in the last episode. But it is not the first out horror of the morning, though. But anyway, you should give him a shot. Something to be said about someone with persistence. No. No. No. no OK, anyway, that was fun.
00:18:12
Speaker
Hey, am I starting off this? Oh, I'm starting off with some fun facts. Fun facts. Okay, so some fun facts and in insights about cheating and relationships. This is based on studies and expert opinions. We didn't just make this stuff up. These are from experts. These are experts in the field, which we could probably be experts in at this point. You know, I don't really want to be. The prevalence of cheating. Oh, I think I was going to ask you this. Don't look. I've already read it.
00:18:38
Speaker
but all right ah That's on me usually I print out a separate copy for Melissa so she can't see some of my secrets but We're getting too comfortable. i think i Yeah, don't look at it. I am very forgetful. Okay, so I guess Melissa, around how many percentages, that's not how you would ask this question. How about what's the percentage of married individuals in the US who admit that they've been cheating? Oh my God, I haven't read this question right at all. just how many What's the percentage of people who are unmarried
00:19:18
Speaker
Relationships. Fuck. What's the percentage of people who admit to cheating and they're at some point in their relationship? I'm going to go with 20%, Zoe. That's insane. That's correct. Oh, my god. How did you know? Wow. OK, OK. Did you read the next part? It's a sub bullet. OK. For just dating, so we're not talking about like marriage. I did forget, actually. OK, perfect. The infidelity rate is actually higher. What do you think it is? Oh, shooty. Oh, god. There is a range on this one. I think it's 40 to 50.
00:19:45
Speaker
Okay. Yeah, you're right. Which is how disheartening it is. I know. Half, half, half, half, half, half, half. You think a lot of that's because people don't communicate like we are exclusive? Or I think people are just nasty little snakes.
00:19:59
Speaker
what so anyway What? I think it could be that. And then I also think social media plays a huge role with cheating nowadays. Tell me more. Because you can get immediate satisfaction from anybody you want, basically, on social media. Truth. And like sorry, like your your boyfriend, your girlfriend could be giving you all the love at home. And then you post a picture and some rando on the internet. It's like, damn, you look hot. And like for whatever reason, that speaks more volumes to some people than the person who's at home with them and is actually providing for them. Because maybe that day they didn't give you the right words of affirmation and boom, you're a cheater. Yeah, easier than communicating with your partner that, hey, I want to back up, rewind a little bit. Just someone saying like, hey, you look good. That's not cheating. what So where where's the line? Like, where do you, for you, your opinion? Well, no, so that's not cheating if
00:20:49
Speaker
ah If you're the one commenting, okay, that is yeah yeah ah wait yeah but like that's I mean like okay I post a picture I have a serious exclusive Mitted relationship and some man and comments comments or even DMS means like hey That's a good photo that has nothing you can't control who DMS you you can't control who's commenting on your stuff So like if you responded to it and you're like, yeah, you look pretty good to whatever and That's cheating. What if I'm just like, yeah, I know. Yeah, I then know that's cheating. That's just being a little bit full of yourself. Okay. So now let's, um, let's get back into it. Okay. Zoe, I have a question for you. but Okay. I'm not gonna look. Okay. So there is a range for the most common age that people, I guess, cheat on slash get cheated on. Great.
00:21:42
Speaker
Are we out of that range? What do you think? We are out of that range. Fuck yeah. Wait, are we coming to that age? We aren't coming to that age. Oh, it's not over. We're just a little ahead of the curve. So being about average. Okay. What do you think that range is? What's the span? Like give me some that like nine years. Okay. So close to 30 to 40 to 49. Okay. And it's mostly due to midlife crises or waning satisfaction and long-term relationships. So keep things spicy.
00:22:10
Speaker
I guess so. Or just... I don't know. it I got 10 years to prepare for the... Yeah. So, you know... Turmoil my next... that's good Really, just once you build your esteem back up, it'll come crashing back down. However, younger individuals who are typically 18 to 29 are also at a higher risk. Okay. That makes sense to me. Yeah. So about 20% of people in this adrian age range admit to infidelity. But how many don't admit it?
00:22:38
Speaker
Exactly. These numbers are skewed. It's way higher people. It's way worse people out there. People are the honest people about cheating. like how that's like a fucking That's an oxymoron. Okay. Next one. and um Where does it occur? Oh, this is great. Workplace infidelity. so around do how many what What's the percentage of affairs do you think of the affairs do you think occur in the workplace?
00:23:01
Speaker
I feel like most affairs or like you spend most of your time at work. So I feel like the percentage would be higher. I did read it. But I mean, if I guessed without reading it, I would say 50. Okay. Wrong. Can't believe it. You read it. 36%. So like a third over a third. Okay. When.
00:23:22
Speaker
but just funny
00:23:25
Speaker
I'm gonna avoid all these things. Not gonna have a man whose job cuz I can't. Anybody who's yeah who's between 18 to 29 and 40 to 49 out of the question. They can't have a job and what was the other thing? That's just that's it. get be married They can't yeah That's a good rule of thumb. That's a good rule. Rule number one, you can't be married. Rule number two, you can't have a job. Rule number three, you have to be, you have to be between 30 to 39 and then 50 plus. Don't worry.
00:23:59
Speaker
I was going to say younger than 18! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! Stop! andfidelity is more likely to occur during times of rough so life transitions financial struggles or relationship conflicts just really ironic in my situation because there we go i was the one who was going through a major life transition yeah But I digress. Oh, this is interesting. What month? What month do you think cheating would spike? Well, I did read it and it. But here's the thing. There's seasonal affect disorder, which is like seasonal depression. Sad. And, you know, ah December, January and February are the months of winter.
00:24:41
Speaker
And if I hadn't read it, I would have guessed February because it's kind of a sad month. But you know there's Valentine's Day. Yeah, I feel like if you're in a relationship, you're probably looking forward to Valentine's Day.
00:24:53
Speaker
And then December is like, if you're in a relationship, there's a lot of holidays. And November can't do that. Can't be. Well, November's fall. Is it? Yes. It's cold. Oh. Whatever. There's distinct months of fall into the seasons. January would be my guess. Look at that. It is January. It is dubbed the cheating month as people reassess their lives. Most holidays. So holidays were great. Let me rethink everything. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a great time. All right. You know, I guess a lot of people do have pretty terrible holidays. I had a terrible holiday. I'm going to cheat on my prayer. Yep.
00:25:22
Speaker
that's um That makes sense, does it? That makes sense. Not always makes me feel better. Okay, so next I think we're going to get into reasons for cheating. these Okay, so we're still in fun facts. This is just now reasons. Oh, because you need to get a reason. It's way more fun to talk about the reasons. Okay, the first one. Common reasons include boredom, lack of intimacy, emotional dissatisfaction, or just seeing excitement.
00:25:47
Speaker
Some cheaters report that they're actually still in love with their partner, but they cheat due to unmet needs or their own insecurities, which I do want to say, this is a big thing for me now. I have now come to realize as experiencing this, you, if you're getting cheated on, it's a lot less about you than it is about the person who's doing it. It's usually like they're on the insecurities or problems or shit that they're not addressing.
00:26:09
Speaker
Exactly. Another thing is cheating isn't always physical, kind of what we touched on with like, I guess if somebody likes your Instagram posts or whatever. ye But for a lot of people, it's actually emotional infidelity. So you just have a deeper, not deeper, but you develop a deep connection with somebody else other than your partner. And that can actually be more hurtful than physically cheating with somebody.
00:26:31
Speaker
Yeah, having that like connection with someone else and like knowing your person is like falling in love with someone else. I mean, they both hurt. Yeah, yeah i they're yeah they're just they're two different things, but they're equally wrong. yeah ah Men are more statistically set by physical infidelity than emotional.
00:26:48
Speaker
I wonder why. I wonder why. Oh yeah, I've heard that before. I looked up some of this because I thought it was interesting. And there's a few studies, and I don't know if, I don't know if we keep this because he knows how interesting this is. But what I found was that men are usually more likely to report that they have some sort of sexual dissatisfaction, and that's why they cheat. And women are more likely to cite that they had some sort of emotional dissatisfaction with their relationship, and that's why they cheat. I think that's interesting.
00:27:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Like, why why are the needs of, I guess, predominantly men, is sexual needs and women are emotional needs? Like, why is that different? And like, because then as a partner, you can be like, well, I'm i'm meeting all of your emotional needs. Why aren't you meeting my sexual needs, I guess? Or like, what what could be the problem? I'm i'm meeting all of your emotional needs, you know? Yeah. But there's different thought processes. Yeah. To show you so much like communication is important too. It's like if you're not meeting my emotional sexual needs, have we had a conversation about it? Like why do you have to go and like seek that in someone else? Let's try to fix things at home. God damn it.
00:27:51
Speaker
So another thing that influences cheating, which I hate this, but there is a study done by I guess this advances in personal relationships, which I don't really know what that is. Maybe that's a is a journal. I don't know. But the opportunity and availability of partners of like people for men to have sex with are significant predictors for men. So they're like surrounded by people who want to have sex with them.
00:28:11
Speaker
It'll definitely increase the odds, which really sucks. Yeah. The last one is that um men, and this is this all goes along with the same like the same thing that you said, but it's all these different studies and it just like reiterates that men are more likely to cheat regardless of the emotional state of their relationship. So it's just like, even if they have a great emotional connection with their partner,
00:28:30
Speaker
if they feel like they're lacking some sort of, like, sexual need. They will. Men, keep your wellies in your pants. Yeah, what's the deal? What's the deal? OK, so what does a cheater look like? So one way that you can kind of see or maybe project what a cheater looks like is based on attachment style. So people with an avoidant attachment style are actually more likely to cheat. um They tend to struggle with emotional intimacy or fear of commitment.
00:28:59
Speaker
and And we'll have like a whole other episode on attachment style, so if you don't know what that is.
Reasons for Cheating and Divorce
00:29:02
Speaker
But basically in a nutshell, avoidant people seek intimacy, but once it gets too close, they get scared and they kind of run away. So it yeah it makes sense why someone who is avoidant may be more prone to cheating because they're almost kind of trying to blow up their situation. yeah like They're like, oh, I'm too close. Let me go seek out intimacy somewhere else. so yeah like but That doesn't have that emotional connection as much. Yeah. Another way to spot it is infidelity and narcissism kind of tied together. So narcissistic individuals are more likely to cheat because they seek validation and excitement outside of their primary relationship.
00:29:37
Speaker
Okay, this is interesting. So what does a cheater look like? Is it someone who's cheated before? So there's some studies about like, once a cheater, always a cheater, but it's really more of like once a cheater, kind of, but not always. Research supports that it is kind of a repetitive thing with people. People who have reported infidelity in one relationship are three times more likely to engage in it in their next relationship but compared to people who haven't.
00:30:04
Speaker
But it doesn't necessarily mean it guarantees that like someone who cheated is going to cheat again. They say like factors such as personal growth, which hopefully these cheaters have gone through, therapy or changes in like relationship dynamics in their next relationship can influence her their future behavior. So it doesn't necessarily mean once a cheater is always going to be a cheater, but it definitely plays a role as a predictor. so Melissa, what do you think as far as your ex, is that like a once a cheater, always a cheater situation or like you think that this person hopefully has grown and learned and will take that? I would love to think that they've learned and are growing from this experience. And maybe part of me believes that just because of the scale of how it happened and like, but I mean, he he has apologized to me. He did say it was like the worst mistake of his life and
00:30:55
Speaker
But also to reiterate that during my relationship with him, there were those like micro cheating events, I guess. I don't even know if I'd call them micro, but there were times where it was almost like, okay, like I got away with this. Let me see how much more I can get away with. ah And so obviously getting a divorce because of that infidelity was like the biggest- Say that word again. and
00:31:21
Speaker
ah And but I know I've had so many syllables. And now I'm like... that water again And
00:31:48
Speaker
yes I hope that it's not like it once and always. I hope it's like, I hope I was special. Yeah, you were so special. You were unique. I hope they've grown. I think this has impacted to them significantly, both of them significantly. But I can't say that this person is ah never going to cheat again because I think if the circumstances line up, but the stars align and there's another situation where this person feels like they're going to be alone, it could happen again. So um these two may be, um once a teacher,
00:32:21
Speaker
there Godspeed to them. Godspeed. Well, I don't really care. And good riddance. Okay, introducing patterns. Moving on. Infidelity and divorce. but we don't sure yeah dia read Okay, I I don't know why. I put all these sources on here in case people actually gave a shit, but no one does because... But this is from a 2013 survey of certified divorce financial analysts. The CDFA, if you will.
00:32:48
Speaker
Melissa. Yes. Okay, so there's many reasons people get divorced and they've been kind of ranked into the most common. Okay. The top three make up like 93% of the cases. Okay. What do you think the top three reasons are?
00:33:03
Speaker
Okay. I would say lack of intimacy. Okay. Financial stress. Financial stress. Okay. And major life change or event. Those are really good. I feel like those should have been them. The first one is actually about almost half. I mean 43% just say that incompatibility is the leading cause of That's bullshit. That's bullshit. Well, David. I'm just kidding. I thought it was for reasons for infidelity. It's for divorce. Wait, okay. Let's try this again. Three reasons you think the top three reasons for divorce. General. Yeah, not just... Yeah. For divorce. Yeah, I would say... Well, not even the first ones in compatibility. Well, okay. Well, I would say infidelity would be a big reason for divorce. And then, yeah, compatibility. And I would say...
00:33:49
Speaker
I mean, I think I would still go with like major life event. Okay. These are amazing. The first one we said in fatality. The second one is infidelity. So about 30% of people get divorced because of... And the last one is money issues. So you kind of said that with like why people... It's probably is another reason why people cheat. I mean, there's tons of reasons why people cheat. But yeah, financial issues is like 22% of the rest of people.
00:34:15
Speaker
get divorced because of some sort of financial issue. I would think like big life changes is probably a big one. I didn't really see that here. It was like the other ones are substance abuse, domestic violence, communication issues, religious differences, lack of family to support, not necessarily like big life changes, but I don't know. I don't know if the CDFA or whoever was doing their studies right because I mean, I feel like that is a big reason. um Yeah.
00:34:37
Speaker
because they can't make it through. But maybe they can't make it through, and then they get then they cheat, and that's infidelity. right They can't make it through, and they realize they're not compatible because they don't align on how they handle certain values or issues. Or maybe they all blow all their money, and there's money issues.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yep. So rebuilding trust after cheating. So only 15 to 20 percent of couples are able to fully rebuild trust and remain together after infidelity. And guess what? As we've shouted out before a couple times, therapy is super important and often essential to this process. Yeah. I could not imagine trying to rebuild trust with somebody after that without therapy. Yeah. No, I couldn't. And I would say I think I want to talk a little bit here about this is important to me and special to me to talk about like the gray area of cheating because we're talking about like getting back together with low interest and it used to be I don't know how it was for you before this all happened but to me it was like black and white someone cheats on me like fuck them I'm never getting back together with them they disrespect to me and that's the end and I even have people told me that like even after what happened to me is like
00:35:36
Speaker
Why don't you leave immediately or that should be such an easy decision? I think it's a lot grayer than black and white, but what do you think? Well, yeah, it's so different when you're actually in it because you're the one who's in that relationship and you know so there's so many more like facets to that relationship than just the infidelity.
00:35:54
Speaker
And people who aren't in that relationship, they they don't know all of that. They can't personally relate to it. So it's yeah, it's a very clear black and white answer to somebody on the outside. yeah But I mean, you have this emotional connection with somebody, and people are complex. Yeah, and it's obviously devastating what happened. But like yeah, there's a lot there's a lot of depth to it.
00:36:16
Speaker
And there's history, and there's other things. Icebergs. Icebergs. Depth. Yeah, not just the tip. Yes. Not just the tip. No, but I would just say, until you actually experience it, I feel like you can't say, so their teeth on me, I'm out. Because you don't know. You have things. You have family ties. You have financial ties. You have history. You have, like, and obviously obviously emotional connection. It's a lot harder of a decision to walk away from someone, especially when the circumstances behind the cheating might be complex or, like,
00:36:47
Speaker
People make mistakes. And not to say that they're, what's the word? Not to say like they're excusable, but you love that person and you try to understand where they were coming from and what was happening. And you have to give you have to at least, in my opinion, it's worth trying to understand that, not to make it okay or that it's right, but it's just being like immediately like, no, it's like, wait a second, let's listen to like what happened. Because that's the least important, even for the you if you ultimately decide to go separate ways, at least important for like the healing and closure to understand what happened.
00:37:16
Speaker
And honestly, like, no, it's not your fault if you get cheated on. No, you didn't do something wrong. But sometimes it is important to understand where your partner's coming from. If they're coming to you and they admit to infidelity and they... Which either of them did. Are... What? yeah No. No. Anyways. But? If they are. But!
00:37:35
Speaker
if they come If they come to you maybe and yeah they're very remorseful and they really want to work on everything, then it is going to therapy and talking about those issues and getting to the root cause of like why did you cheat versus just walking away and being done with it and wiping your hands clean of the situation. It's just it's just not that easy.
00:37:54
Speaker
like these thought Yeah, I agree. I think you have to have all the information to make the decision. Not to say like, probably most of the time, obviously only 15 to 20% are able to recover. Most of the time, it doesn't really matter what the root cause was. it does it Nothing justifies it, right? But I think if the relationship is worth salvaging, sometimes you can work through what those problems were. A lot of times you can't because that really breaks a try breaks your trust. And it's really hard to rebuild that. But I still think it's worth understanding what happened. Yeah. Even if it's just for your own peace of mind after you all split. Yeah. Getting to the root of what happened and that way you can be healthier for your next relationship. Exactly. I totally agree. Yes. So with that, I think we'll move on to our next segment.
00:38:45
Speaker
so Dealing with the after mouth, I love that word, of being cheated on can be an emotional rollercoaster. Or like a washing machine maybe. Just spiraling out of control. So it's important to focus on rebuilding your self-esteem.
Healing and Moving Forward
00:39:04
Speaker
What's really important is understanding that, I kind of said this before, but like the actions of the cheater don't define you. So an important mantra to remember is your worth is not defined by someone else.
00:39:17
Speaker
which is really hard to do, but we're gonna talk about some of the mental health tips to help you get through the process and kind of make that more clear. So, one way.
00:39:28
Speaker
is prioritizing self-care, which this that's actually one of my goals for 2025. I wrote out my goals literally last night. And anyway, not just self-care, but just there was a lot of like little little baby goals of like how to do self-care. Anyway, so your physical self-care is one. So exercising, eating good foods, make sure you're getting enough sleep every night. um That way you can feel strong and capable the next day. Capable to take on the world.
00:39:52
Speaker
And then there's emotional self-care, so do things that will bring you joy. This kind of goes with hobbies, depending on if that's painting or hiking or if you'd just like to take a bath. But as we've learned from previous episodes, baths are traumatizing for me now. I was like, what are you going with this? Oh yeah, you ever know where you're going to phone call? You've got more tea. You never know when you're going to get a phone call from a friend who needs help.
00:40:16
Speaker
because they're an emotional distress and dangerous place. So so be careful with those relaxing vows. But yeah, prior to anything self care, I like this one a lot, especially for you, because I think you were saying you're taking more time to like explore your hobbies, like your painting and your reading and I'm focusing on my skincare routine. I think it's very important to have like wind down time before bed. Definitely. Because then you sleep better and then you wake up feeling rejuvenated. and So.
00:40:38
Speaker
do you have a timer for like do not disturb on your phone does no i don't but i should and i do and i will say i don't use it i mean it's it's it hits at 9 45 every night and then i immediately turn it off which i don't respect it but people i feel like that's a really good thing to respect your do not disturb boundaries exactly okay the next one challenging negative self-talk so remember that Cheating, again, like i like I love this, but cheating reflects more on the other person's choices than you're worth. So practice affirmations. We talked a lot about affirmations in one of our episodes, but things like I'm worthy of love and respect. I know it sounds so silly, but really, like telling yourself this is good for you, or I deserve honesty and loyalty in my next relationship.
00:41:17
Speaker
Like literally saying it out loud, like even while you're looking in the mirror, that's the best way to do it. It feels really silly at first, but it does help. It does help. Do it in the bath where you're most vulnerable. Yes. Where things can happen and have your phone on loud just in case. Okay, another one is to set boundaries and distance yourself. So avoid engaging with your ex-partner until you feel emotionally grounded. I personally related to this, like anytime I would get a message from him or something, I was immediately triggered. Yes.
00:41:46
Speaker
rage and just like I would say things and I would get so worked up over things that normally I wouldn't. So definitely, definitely, you know, take a beat to process any type of conversation with them. Which is really hard to do, by the way, when you're going through a divorce because you have to have some sort of contact with them, which is, you know, why lawyers exist. But I remember there was a long period of time there where we were still figuring out how to like separate things and get through things and you were doing a really nice job of like, it got to the point where you're like, I can't do this anymore because this is it. of lemming for you. Yeah. Being the mediator. Yeah. But it's like having limited contact with that person is essential. Like you kind of have to like break off. Ideally you break off all ties with that person because you need to do that to be able to like grow and heal and leave space for something else. But when you're working through a divorce, some things you have to communicate with each other. Yeah. Fucking sucks. Yeah.
00:42:35
Speaker
Because like any little legal conversation that you have to have, like, you know hey, are you are you taking the couch? Or however you're dividing your assets can lead into any like blown out conversation that like shit is just hitting the fan, and everybody's mad, and you say nasty things, and it just, it's ethical.
00:42:53
Speaker
Even to this day, I'm still trying to get things like moved into my name with the house and things, and it's just like still kind like communication when I just... You want it to end, but anyway, I'll get into that. so Also, you should declutter reminders of the relationship that trigger negative feelings. so I guess maybe this is on the topic of, like do you have... you know little decorative pictures in your house that you need to get rid of or like pictures of yourselves or anything like that that might trigger things to make you think about the past.
00:43:24
Speaker
like You have to cleanse yourself of that person, which really sucks because like a lot of the things that you shared or like might be reminders. It's hard to get rid of that person entirely, right? like You clutter them from your life. And even just like memories that'll pop up every now and then. you know You kind of have to train your mind to be like, well, now like this person isn't part of my life anymore. This person kind of sucks. So get that out of there. And the iPhone update really kind of tries to fucking jab you sometimes. It's like, oh, a memory, or Facebook memories. and it's like I cut it out. like I think I did see like a meme on that, and it's like, when iPhone photos app tries to make a memory of you and your ex-boyfriend, and it's like this collage with like this like gentle music in the background, and just like, I fucking hate this I swear to God. I love how it recommends wallpapers for me. I'm like, please. Zoe is half of my recommended wallpapers, and it's just pictures is that, I don't know if I've taken a view, or his selfies, or whatever's going on, and I'm like, what?
00:44:24
Speaker
Soon enough, you'll you'll finally fall for it. Okay, lean on your support system is the next one. So talking to trusted friends or family who can offer you encouragement and perspective is really helpful. If possible, seek out others who have experienced similar situations yeah like us. For solidarity. For solidarity. I don't know. I think I had a really tough time there. And I think I applauded you on your episode of being able to like really have clarity and know when it was the right time to walk away, but I really needed people to help me make that decision. I mean, they didn't help me make the decision. I think people let me make the decision, but I had friends that were supportive and no matter what happened, but also told me like, hey, this ain't it, honey. like it's it's This isn't good for you.
00:45:07
Speaker
or even like, Hey, like, well look at it from this perspective or, you know, kind of pressing you on different things that you might be forgetting about because it is a very traumatic experience to go through and things get forgotten and clouded and it's, it's having reliable people to kind of keep you on track of like, Hey, this is the healthier way to look at it, try to try to focus on these things and to figure out what you what is best for you. Yeah, definitely. Another one is journaling. So write about how you feel and kind of what you're learning about yourself. I do think that's nice, especially when you can date them and then you can kind of track your progress yeah on your maybe your mental state.
00:45:47
Speaker
Are you unwell or not? Reflect on your strengths and what you bring to relationships because, again, that kind of goes back to, um you know, it's not about who you are as the person who got cheated on and what you did wrong. So it's important to, or I guess it's easy to feel that way. Like, what did I do wrong? What's wrong with me? So it's important to kind of give yourself affirmations of the good things that you do bring to relationships. Definitely. And I know I thought you liked that one because you are a big journaler. Yeah. Okay, super professional help.
00:46:17
Speaker
Please, please, please. We're big advocates of therapy, and therapy can provide a safe space for you to process your feelings and help rebuild your confidence and give you the tools to do that. So consider joining a support group for those who have been cheated on, who have been through the trial. Yes, actually, for yeah, for individuals healing from betrayal. Like we are kind of a little support group for each other because we both have been through it. Yes, exactly. We've been through it. Definitely. Like without my support system without therapy, it would have been a lot harder for me to be able to work through the betrayal and kind of like give me the right tools to start to rebuild my self-confidence. Some people take other avenues such as bearing their problems. I'm not saying it was in other tables. And I didn't take that route. I thought, you know, there might be a different way for me and Luckily Therapy helped me do that.
00:47:07
Speaker
Anyways, you can also focus on your passions, so rebuilding your hobbies and interests that were sidelined during your relationship, which that one is like... This speaks to you, huh? This speaks to me. like This was written about me. like ah i I left a lot of things that I cared about in the past when I was in my last relationship, so reconnecting with those is really key. You can set small achievable goals to remind yourself of your capabilities and your resilience. I think it's important not to set like these massive goals because then they seem overwhelming and way too far away and like giving yourself little goals because those are easier to get to and then you feel better at each little goal that you get. So it really kind of builds you back up. Yep. Smart goals, achievable. I don't remember all the word are the the letters stand for that.
00:47:51
Speaker
No, but this one's super important is like reorienting yourself on yourself and focusing on yourself and your passions and your goals and figuring out things that bring you joy that really brings you out of that funk of...
00:48:05
Speaker
but betray um Okay, so next one, this one's really tough, but like stop comparing yourself. So it's really difficult, but avoid the temptation to compare yourself to the person your partner are cheated on you with. It's very unproductive and it's not kind to yourself. And remember that the the behavior that they had is not a reflection on you. I remember I did this like really, I was like really bad about this. I would look up this person on social media and I just could not get it. Like what is it about you that's so much better than me? And I would be comparing myself to them. I would do it periodically. I feel like I became like a masochist and like wanted to see if it still bothered me or we did it in Italy. Yeah.
00:48:46
Speaker
I like what they love. That was not a good time. That was not good. That was not good. It was very, but I feel like as, you shouldn't do this, but I think as I've done it, it's become less and less impactful to me, which is good. I do it as like a temperature check. Like, am I still bothered by it? The answer at that time was yes.
00:49:04
Speaker
It did not feel good, but cut that shit out. Like, don't do that. Comparing yourself to them doesn't make any sense. And that person, they have nothing to do with you and your self-worth, so doing that really just elicits negative emotions and silly questions that you can't answer, which is, you know, like, what what is it about them? It's really nothing. It has nothing to do with them. It has nothing to do with you.
00:49:24
Speaker
I will say I can relate to that from a college relationship that I was cheated on. So I've been cheated on multiple times, if that makes any sense. You are an expert. I am an expert. But yeah, I'm obsessed over the person that my boyfriend cheated on me with.
00:49:40
Speaker
And yeah, I was like, what is it about her that's so much better? like All these things. But going through my divorce, I think i think it goes back to the emotional numbness. Everything I'd already been through, and I was just like, yeah, like throw another thing on the fire. We're good. What else you got? But the woman that was an accomplice, i just i she actually did message me, and I never responded. I responded to my notes, but I never sent it to her.
00:50:07
Speaker
to get out my rage in a healthy way, I think. But but i I was just so uncaring about who she was. I was like, i i you are you beneath me. i just yeah That's a healthier and it's a healthy perspective, actually. Thank you. It is, yeah. I think I've come to realize that, too, is like the the person that my ex was cheating on me with also was cheating on someone, too. And I've kind of come to terms with it and like made peace with the fact that you guys are kind of better for each other. I would never do that to anyone. It made it easier to not compare so much as like, like we can't compare us to together other because like, yeah, you are scum. Scum, scum, No, I'm sure she's scum.
00:50:49
Speaker
After sure she's great. They're all great. but um and Okay. So learn to trust again, but gradually. So take your time, take your time, take your time to heal and be patient with yourself before you enter a new relationship. Practice opening up in small ways with people that you trust and that helps you rebuild your trust in a more gradual way. I definitely think it's important to really process all of your emotions before you get into a new relationship because you might lash out and like take some of those frustrations on your new partner.
00:51:19
Speaker
It's hard not to carry some of that with you into the next relationship, but I think Which even, I feel like no matter how much time it's gonna be, you're probably gonna carry a little bit of it. Yeah, and being able, you know when you're ready to for that new relationship, at some point opening up to that person about what happened to you, and if that's a good healthy relationship, hopefully they take into consideration that you might still have some trauma from what happened. Yeah. And can be more reassuring or help you be more secure in your relationship because of what's happened. Yeah, be a little more patient, you know maybe just help you through that kind of stuff knowing that yeah they are not the ones who did the damage but they apparently care about you if they're in a relationship with you so like having that grace with that person that is helpful the last one we have is celebrating your strength celebrate so
00:52:07
Speaker
Acknowledge your courage in facing heartbreak and working toward healing. Celebrate your small victories, whether it's just feeling good about yourself or your parents or rediscovering a love for an old hobby. In general, just it's good to like take a moment and be proud of yourself for getting through something really shitty. Yeah.
00:52:23
Speaker
And look for the little enjoyments, I think, and be proud of like, even if you're painting and it looks like absolute shit, just be proud of yourself and enjoy that you're happy. Yeah, definitely. It's a small little victory. And just knowing like, I made it through this, someone did something horrible to me, and I'm still standing, and I'm gonna be okay. Yeah, it's important. That's the end of that. That's the end of that.
00:52:53
Speaker
Okay, so this next part is... Oh, where are we now? In our journey of healing. God, okay. I remember finally being strong enough when my ex ended up like reaching out over the summer and saying, you know, this was ain't it. I knew my self-worth at that point and I was able to kind of work a little bit on myself a team.
00:53:13
Speaker
That was destroyed. So fragile. um like and smell for de so but da But I finally was able to say no. And it was a weird feeling of like being sad that it was finally over, but like some closure and also like some liberation. And I finally came to terms with realizing that it was very much more a him problem than a me problem. and now kind of focusing on myself and realizing that it's not really a reflection on me. I feel like I'm finally on the journey of rebuilding myself a seam, and yeah. Yeah. I think for me, I did have that one weekend where I had to go to a friend's wedding. Oh, God. ah Me and my ex were both part of the bridal party, and we had to stay in the same house for an entire weekend together. That's horrible.
00:54:09
Speaker
and It was just, it was just really annoying to be with him for that long and like in the same house and everything. And I avoided it as much as I could, but, but there was a moment that we were chatting and he did apologize for everything. And he did admit that it was the worst mistake of his life. And I was like, as he should. I was like, as it was.
00:54:28
Speaker
Great. Thanks for the play. I was like, okay. I guess I guess that was closure for not even closure. I was already closed, but it did feel good to hear. But yeah, so I'm just kind of, I'm i'm at the point in my life where I'm not necessarily mad about it anymore. I'm not, I don't dwell on it. I don't think back to it.
00:54:47
Speaker
That's good. It's, it's very freeing. It is. Yeah. And just finally able to kind of put that behind me and it is unfortunate. I feel like the age. No, we're doing great. You're doing great. I will say like, I totally agree with you. I think what's funny is when I had the idea that I really want to talk about this for an episode, it wasn't that long ago. it's like ah handful of weeks ago and I remember I just like woke up as you do sometimes with grief is like it kind of hits you again for some reason and it was like kind of like spiked and hit me I was like this kind of upset but I will say in general it doesn't really affect me as much anymore it's so nice to say like it's like yeah I mean I'm like oh what oh I was gonna say there's a song I think it's Megan Maroney but it's called indifferent I love Megan yeah we talked to me okay sorry like and damn France and it's like it's so great to feel that way and it's like that's how I feel
00:55:40
Speaker
That's how I feel. And I just hit the year mark. We officially called it quits January 1st of 2024. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. And I feel like I started off the new year and I'm like, it's weird how time works.
00:55:55
Speaker
i I finally feel like I can breathe, and it's like, wow, that really is behind me. isn't Like, sure, it's still a shitty thing that happened, and it still kind of sucks. But I finally do feel like I'm moving forward, and talking about this even now doesn't really like elicit that much emotion anymore, which is fucking great. And when you said it reminds you of a song, there was another song that I, it was on my Spotify wrapped, it was my most played song, and different was up there, actually.
00:56:20
Speaker
Or another Meg Maranio song was, because I love her. But my first song was called, Oh God, is by, ah is it Alicia? Do you know what I'm talking about? Is Yeah. Alicia Cara. Is that her name? Okay. And her song was, God, is it called Let Me Down? Fuck, I can't even remember. But the point is, the song was, she says something like, I can't move forward if, or I can't run forward if I keep looking back. or There's like a line in there about that. And I finally feel like that too is like, when you keep Looking back or like dwelling on the past. It's it is difficult to move forward not to say like it's good to like share your story and talk about it and stuff but like when you're dwelling on it, it makes it difficult to move forward and I finally feel like I don't really I don't really dwell on it anymore, you know, like I am moving forward and in a much better place and I'm much happier
00:57:05
Speaker
i
00:57:13
Speaker
So, it's game time everybody. Game time. Also tonight is the night of the national championship game. So it was really game time. Who this is more morton gar are you cheering for Zoe? OH. wait The V. Ohio State University. And I think you probably are too because your team lost to Notre Dame.
00:57:32
Speaker
Yes. yeah yeah Sorry to bring up old wounds. Betrayal. Betrayal. So speaking of betrayal, but what a great segue. You're welcome. So the game we're going to play is that both of us came up with five different ah scenarios yeah that might represent betrayal to us. And we're going to rank them from like number one will be that's fine, not really betrayal.
00:57:58
Speaker
But then 10 is like, that is the worst betrayal I've ever experienced in my life. So- Excellent. With that. Zoe, will you read your first- Betrayal? Okay, so the first one I had was, funny enough, we'll keep this on the football theme, is you're with a set of friends, you're watching a football game, and somebody at the event is cheering for, is rooting for the team against your team. And how are we ranking these? I don't know.
00:58:24
Speaker
so we're just goingnna blind rank them or we have to like collectively rank them together. Let's collectively rank them. Okay. Okay. I know other ones, but that one's like not that bad. But it does feel a little bit like a trial. This is a friend. It's a friend. um You're at a football gathering. That's like a three. They're cheering for the other team. You have to hear it. Yeah. That actually hurts me more. I'm going to go and go with four. Can we settle it for four? We can move it around, right? Yeah. Yeah. OK. Nope. We can't. We can't. Four is final. OK. Four is final. OK, dang. OK, your turn. So when you quietly say something funny and nobody else hears it,
00:58:59
Speaker
But then somebody, one person heard it, and they repeat it louder, and they get all the laughs. Fuck them. Fuck them. Them going sex. Yes, sex. Yes. Thank you. Sex. Personally offended by that one. I hate when people do that. Because I'm kind of a quiet person. I see a lot of funny things. And you're really funny. But I mumble. Yeah, just kind of articulate. Involve. Sometimes somebody it doesn't laugh at my joke. I'm just going to yell it. See if I get a better response.
00:59:22
Speaker
Next one, your best friends hang out without you. They don't invite you. See it on social media. God, let's I'm going to go nine. Okay, I love that. Nine. Okay, I kind of like this. Like I rank yours, you rank mine, so they fall. So then four, six, and nine. Okay, your turn. Okay. When your neighbor reports you for an HOA violation.
00:59:42
Speaker
This one's so good. Oh my god. Do you talk to your neighbor? Do I touch my neighbors? Yeah. Like, do you talk to this neighbor? No, no, no. This isn't a personal experience. Oh, no. Oh my god, Melissa's like, how do we do it? I'm like, I'll see you on the scenarios. Somehow you found out. maybe from another neighbor that they reported you. Okay, I'm gonna have to go with a three because I just feel like there's something else. What? What, would you go with that more? I'd be so offended. Are you kidding me? Oh, if you were friends with this neighbor and they reported you, that'd be more. Yeah, it's just a neighbor and they would, I mean, they like if Nick and Caitlin reported me, that would be pretty fucked up. But if my neighbor, but like, ah first of all, I don't have an HOA here, so it's very hard to relate. But if they did report me, I'd be kind of like, what the fuck? Like, they should have just said something.
01:00:26
Speaker
But I'm worried about the other ones being more personal, so I'm gonna go with three. Okay. Well, it's my turn. I was like, okay, your family has a FaceTime without you. They do a FaceTime and don't invite you.
01:00:40
Speaker
Well, I guess, I feel like it's gonna be one word, so I'm gonna go with seven. Okay. No, eight, Okay, okay when goingnna like when the trash man only skips your house yeah so good but yeah um, also I have to say this about the DeKalb County Sanitation Department. They fucking hate me, so I, this is very personal. You hear that? You hear that? I'll use Sanitation people as a, they hate me. First of all, someone stole my trash can one time. I don't think it was them, because that would be very bizarre. They have a lot of trash cans. All the trash cans. All they don't need anymore. Well, mine. Someone stole mine when I was on vacation one time, which, to be fair, I had to, so it's okay.
01:01:18
Speaker
although it was a big disaster. Anyway, so the second thing is, they fucking manhandled my recycling bin. They smashed that thing down so hard that it broke off the wheels and like, bit slowly, right? So every time, every week, the recycling bin became more deteriorated until the wheels completely fell off and I would have to like fire and carry it back to my house every day. And I was like... And she was like dragging it with one wheel and it was just like... I was like, fuck!
01:01:47
Speaker
And by the way, when you want a new recycling bin or like report a stolen trash can, it is a full-fledged investigation by the DeKalb County sanitation department. You take these matters very seriously. You have to have the serial number, you take photo evidence, you have to submit a claim, and it takes many, many, many weeks. I had many weeks where I cannot throw away my garbage.
01:02:08
Speaker
Anyway, so I'm sorry, what was this? I already feel trash. Yeah, but your trash man only skips your house. I'm gonna go with five, because this is really personal. Yeah. Okay, this one's kind of, okay. A group of your friends for Halloween do a costume, matching costumes together, and they don't match this.
01:02:25
Speaker
God, our whole year is this bad? Mine are like petty shit. Yours are petty shit. Mine are full. Oh, God. Okay. I'm go seven. Okay. That's a good one. Okay. Okay. When you bring your lunch to work and you leave it in the work fridge and your coworker eats it. Did you put your name on it?
01:02:46
Speaker
fair game. No! If something is in the fridge that is and not yours that and you know you didn't bring that, would you still eat it? with the i mean What's in this double ah top A? Looks good, I'm gonna eat it. I'm gonna go with one because I feel like there's a couple more. okay When your pet chooses someone else to cuddle with.
01:03:07
Speaker
Seven. Seven. Seven! Seven! Seven! Okay, last one. This is silly, and this is probably, this is so hard to relate to. Okay, so there's a surprise party for you. Everyone knows that you don't, but it's for you, and it's a surprise, but don't you feel a little bit betrayed that you didn't? No. Was it once available?
01:03:33
Speaker
and There's some mixed feelings. No! one tell me Okay, no, there's a two. Alright, I'll take a two. Okay, that one was really unrelatable. I have something related to that. Feeling beast- nevermind, it's a little conflicting. I'm gonna think you're just weird.
Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up
01:03:47
Speaker
What's your last one? It has to be a ten, whatever it is, we saved it for that. Okay, when you put a picture in your Word doc, and it messes up all the words,
01:03:59
Speaker
Sorry, how is the trail from the word? Microsoft? um but That, I guess, to us is the highest form of the truth of it. The first one, wait, what was number one? Should be so bad. Oh my God, okay, UcoP, that was a great game, I love that. No, that was it, one through 10, we even ranked them all. But i I listed six, so. I know, we messed up. I think I messed up, I don't know. Okay, go to the. Alright, thank you.
01:04:31
Speaker
this
01:04:35
Speaker
Okay, that is it for today's episode of or is divorced if you're enjoying the show Don't forget to subscribe rate and leave a review on Apple podcast or Spotify and follow us on Instagram or tick-tock because it's back whoops at Whores Divorce for updates. I said Whores. We switched up who was saying what in this episode and... Okay. We're all discombobulated. We're all, yeah. At Whores Divorce for updates, behind the scenes content, maybe some inspirational videos, and definitely some still in us next episode. We don't know what we'll get into. I don't know why we keep pretending we do, but we have a, we have be a surprise for you and a surprise for us. Bye!
01:05:13
Speaker
i ain't made i a any Oh my god, that was great. Damn it, I'm so close. I'm so close! I felt it getting shaky on the end. The washing machine begins. bo Start the cycle. Start it. I'm gentle, please. Holy shit. No. I'm going to cut that part because that was really weird. um You saw ours? Good thing we have the other one as well. Right? We're going through this. thought Oh. That's a happy part. LARPing. That's what it's called. Yeah, it stands for something. Yeah, LARPing. LARP stands for something. I don't remember what it is. and little but Anyway.
01:05:50
Speaker
but but Yeah, not just the tip. Yes, yes. Just the tip. Just the tip. It was the storm method. It's like backwards. rat The wheezing is taking me out. Oh my God. And so look up. And then some guy was like kind of reaching for you and you were like kind of shimmying backwards like, no, get away from me. And then I like smacked his hand away. And then I like i even bit down, I like got in his face and I was like, no, she's not interested. And he was like, flounder. Does she know what to do?
01:06:28
Speaker
Oh my god. That was so funny. I don't remember. That was a good night. That was a good time. It was a good time. We're gonna have to cut some of that weird shit I said. Yeah. That's so inspiring. Too much wine. Can we talk about that? So, you remember when we were in ah Mr. Baker's class? I think it was like 11th grade? Yeah, it was 11th grade. I don't remember, but we for some reason we had the same class, different periods, but the same teacher. And I guess, I don't know if it was my essay or... Well, he made us... Okay, so the important thing is he made us write
01:07:04
Speaker
book reports like very very frequently more than frequently than someone could read a book I was like every week or something it's like I can't read a new book every week and it had to be you know so many words or so many pages or something and I remember wait sorry I know I'm interrupting you but it Do you remember the fact that, like, at some point, and I was such a goody-goody in high school too, we had to start making up books we read. And you had to cite them. And we started making up, like, we would fake the citations of, like, this is a fake book with a fake author, fake date, yeah and we would write book reports about them.
01:07:37
Speaker
And you're okay so sorry. I don't know we did that but yeah so I guess this might have been one of them and I think it had to be a certain number of pages because it wasn't a certain number of characters or anything like that or words but the pages because I got to like four and a half pages and I had to be five and I was like I have nothing left to say about this fake book and so I just wrote in like 72 fonts. I was like the end.
01:08:01
Speaker
And I turned it in, got it back and like I still got an A, but he like circled the end. He was like, do not end an essay this way. And I'm like, no shit, Sherlock. Come over to these buckboards.