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#107: An OSHA Inspection My First Week on the Job
598 Plays1 year ago
Sometimes not being an expert has its benefits. Rusti Dyals, Certified Safety Professional and national director of EHS at ESFM, chats with Jill about getting her degree in public relations, stumbling into a safety coordinator position at a sawmill, and immediately learning the site would be undergoing an OSHA inspection. Listen to this week’s episode to learn how she approaches getting leadership on board with safety-based decisions, why continuing education is so important in this field, and find out Rusti’s biggest piece of advice for anyone in the safety industry.
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Transcript
Introduction of Rusty Diles
00:00:08
Speaker
Welcome back. This is the Accidental Safety Pro brought to you by HSI. This episode is recorded August 2nd, 2023. My name is Jill James, HSI's Chief Safety Officer. And by now, you might've noticed the new logo for our podcast. I hope you're enjoying it and finding the podcast easily.
00:00:26
Speaker
My guest today is Rusty Diles. Rusty is a CSP and a national director of EHS in the integrated facilities management industry at ESFM and joins us today from Thomasville, Georgia. Welcome to the show, Rusty. Hi, Jill. Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:44
Speaker
Well, I appreciate you making the time to speak with us today.
Rusty's Unconventional Path to EHS
00:00:48
Speaker
Absolutely. And so, yeah, Rusty, what's your origin story? How did you find this world of EHS? Oh, my. It was not a direct line. It was a very interesting road, I assure you. I actually grew up in Kentucky, and I went to school for public relations.
00:01:10
Speaker
And yes and went to school for public relations and when I graduated from college we were in a slight recession in the country and the very first thing to go and to stop hiring was communications and PR jobs so I couldn't get a job.
00:01:30
Speaker
Is that that's what you that's what you thought your job would be with a public relations degrees that kind of what you had your site set on yes yes i had definitely had my site i had done an internship during college for credits really enjoyed working for a PR firm. But as i said i just when i graduated there were just no PR job no entry level i should say entry level PR jobs or communications got jobs to be had.
Beginning in the Sawmill Industry
00:01:56
Speaker
So I relocated to live with my sister in North Carolina. She owned her own company doing environmental agricultural consulting. And so, yeah, I helped out with her while I was still looking for a job because that was a temporary fix. And I was still looking for some type of position and kind of getting myself integrated in her community down in North Carolina.
00:02:24
Speaker
And one of the deacons of the local church that we went to approached me and said that he would like me to interview for a safety position, safety job. Well, I mean, that's super unusual. I thought you were going to say the local manufacturing company or something, but oh no.
00:02:43
Speaker
it's the church well funny enough it was for the manufacturing the local manufacturing it was a really sawmill yes but i didn't know that um i only knew um him as the deacon of my church of our church and so it took a little bit to figure out that yes he actually was the plant manager for the local sawmill
00:03:06
Speaker
Oh, interesting. And wanted me to interview for an environment health and safety coordinator position for a sawmill. And what did he, I mean, did he ever tell you like what he saw in you to say?
00:03:20
Speaker
You know, like, was it, she has a pulse and I have a job or what did he see in you? In hindsight, I probably think that was the case, but during the interview process, I interviewed with several people and I ended up with him and I did ask that question because I had no idea why he thought I would work for this.
Challenges and Achievements in Sawmill Safety
00:03:41
Speaker
And funny enough, his comment, his response always stuck with me through the years.
00:03:47
Speaker
Well, he said, you know, Rusty, I kind of got to know you a little bit through church. He said, and I do know that you have a degree in public relations. And he said, that's the piece I can't teach. He said, I can teach you the OSHA regulations and the EPA regulations and the technical side of the job.
00:04:03
Speaker
But I can't teach you how to deal with people. He said I can't teach you the soft skills that are needed for a safety job because the majority of what safety professionals do is some way interact with people interact with his associates interact with agencies interact interact with
00:04:23
Speaker
management or executive leadership or whoever it might be and he said that was the part that he couldn't teach and that that was the part that you know my education prepared me for and he just said you know I think you'd do a really good job and so I did for four years
00:04:43
Speaker
I mean, what a way to step into the work. I mean, the sawmill industry is not for the faint of heart. It's not. It's not. And I will tell you that I received one of those hard educations at that facility. Good education. But it was very much drinking through a fire hose almost immediately. They had applied for North Carolina's voluntary protection program.
00:05:12
Speaker
And I kid you not, I think it was my first week there that we got the call from the ocean inspector going, hey, we're going to be there for your preliminary inspection in a week.
00:05:23
Speaker
Oh, gosh. Wow. And so they're like, show me your program for this. Show me your program for that. And you're like, what? Yes, yes. And it was exactly that. I was getting a crash course and turned out the OSHA inspector for this program. He was an old Saul Miller and just was, I mean, honestly, such a sweet human being and was
00:05:50
Speaker
took me under his wing knowing that i was brand new to to the field he's like you know what you just hang out with me let them answer you know let your boss and everybody else answer all the questions you hang out with me and learn what all this is supposed to be about
00:06:04
Speaker
oh wow what a wonderful opportunity to learn it was it was and so it was a three-day inspection and i hung out with the inspectors and it was a preliminary so basically what they were doing was going through and evaluating the site talking to the associates and then coming back and making the recommendation to management
00:06:24
Speaker
whether or not they should go through with the official inspection or you know and getting and they made recommendations you should before you go through the official inspection you should get these XYZ things done first and they did they made the recommendation we think you should do these two or three things and go ahead and schedule you know for maybe a month or two out the official inspection and so we did
00:06:50
Speaker
Oh my gosh, and did they end up getting the VPP status? Yes, yes, we were the first sawmill in North Carolina to have the North Carolina Star, which is what they call their VPP.
00:07:02
Speaker
Wow. Well, congratulations. I mean, what a way to start your career. Yes, thank you. Set the bar high. Really? Right? Yeah. Oh, man. We really did. We really did. And then we re-certified three years later, right before actually I left the company. And unfortunately, the original Ocean Spectre had retired, so I didn't get to see him again. But it was still, it was a great experience.
Union Relations and Safety Programs
00:07:27
Speaker
you and i have a have a little bit of similarities in that regard i mean my sawmill story isn't as isn't as lovely as yours in fact it's not lovely at all but my when i was with with osha the very first fatality investigation i ever did was at a sawmill yes yes i can i can only imagine how how bad that was
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So I have a very vivid picture in my mind of sawmills and what that was like at the time. And wow, what a great way for you as a professional to learn hazard recognition skills too, I mean, because
00:08:01
Speaker
Gosh, sawmills, that's unforgiving. It is. It was definitely a great place to start the career because it was kind of the extreme with all the different hazards and just trying to understand quickly control of zero energy, hazardous energy, and all of the moving parts in that facility.
00:08:28
Speaker
And then it was a union facility. So, yes. And getting to learn firsthand a union facility and what union relations are like. And again, I got lucky with, we had one of the best unions and union presidents that I'd ever worked, that I've ever worked with since. They believed in safety and they were all very committed to the different programs, what we were trying to do.
00:08:58
Speaker
And you got to see firsthand through the VPP process what the connection between government and unions and the employer is like as well Yes, yes, I sat in again on during that preliminary I was able to set set in and on some of the they let me sit in on one or two of the conversations with the associates With the permission permission of the associate, of course, right again just to see what that's like and yes, it was
00:09:23
Speaker
very eye-opening Again, especially when you're three or four weeks into this job trying to understand, you know what it is I'm supposed to be doing and in hearing You know the union president and a couple of the other other associates employees talk about the commitment that The sawmill leadership had and the things that they had done through the years to support them. I mean, it was amazing and
00:09:49
Speaker
Wow, that is really a great story. And you know, for anyone who's listening and thinking, gosh, I don't know very much about unions, or I haven't worked in a union shop, what is Jill talking about with seeing the dynamics between the government, the unions and the employer? In the world of OSHA, the union representatives, the union itself has the same rights as the employer in the eyes of OSHA.
00:10:15
Speaker
And so they have access to the same inspection processes, same information, they get copies of everything, get to be part of OSHA proceedings if they want to be.
Career Transitions and Passion for EHS
00:10:27
Speaker
And so if someone doesn't know what that connection is, it's there, so you know. So Rusty, you're at the sawmill for, what did you say, three years? Four years. What happens, four years? Okay, so what happens next?
00:10:38
Speaker
So after four years, I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay in safety. It had been a very interesting again, four years, but I just, I wasn't sure if that's what I wanted to do. And so I actually left the company and moved away from North Carolina and originally went to work
00:11:05
Speaker
for a employee temporary agency, temporary agency company. And it didn't last very long because I quickly, quickly realized that no, this isn't what I want to do either. Was it in safety again working for the temp agency? No, it was it was actually just being a recruiter for a temp temp agency. And it was, again, as I said, a very brief stint and I went right back into safety.
00:11:30
Speaker
Where did you go? Where did you go? That position, I was actually a corporate director for a small company. They were a commercial tire company in the Midwest. I worked there for just a year and then went back to Sawmills back in the South.
00:11:52
Speaker
And went back to sawmills for a year and a half, and then eventually landed in consulting for about four years. I bounced around there for a little bit, again, not really sure what I wanted to do, but I kept finding my way back to safety, and I just, I kept finding fulfillment.
00:12:12
Speaker
Within the EHS field every time I tried to kind of ease out of it. I just I Wasn't as fulfilled. I didn't get it. It always felt like I wasn't getting to help us help people And really was that
00:12:26
Speaker
Was that the fulfillment piece it was it was and it took me a bit to realize that but that's really what it was I enjoy Trying to help people trying to solve problems trying to help people solve their own problems just I don't always enjoy the Negative side of safety as we all know. I mean sometimes you have to help people by doing
00:12:51
Speaker
Giving them hard hard conversations or or in some cases, you know enforcing disciplinary action and even Letting associates go because of violations and I hate that piece of it But at the same time I accept it because it's the right thing to do. I am still helping the associate
00:13:09
Speaker
in that Getting them to leave the company where they can't follow safety rules and they might get hurt I just ultimately that's that's a good thing for them Yeah So so yeah, so I came back I keep coming back keep staying in safety and it really is about you know, as I said helping people and not just Associates, I enjoy helping management tie, you know, I help senior leadership tie in the vision of what they
Aligning Leadership Vision with Safety Programs
00:13:39
Speaker
think safety should be what it is. Yeah, talk more about that. I mean, that's kind of the holy grail of our practice, right? I mean, everybody talks about it. It's in every article. It's at every conference about, you know, explaining our work to management and then also leading with them.
00:14:00
Speaker
Absolutely yes and I have found you know throughout your entire career in the safety profession regardless of where you're at level wise or job title wise you're always doing a little bit of that but at my current position I feel like I've done more of it
00:14:19
Speaker
I'm tied in more with that senior leadership in this national director's position. And I have found where in this position I'm working more with that vision of this is where the company has been. The company that I work for, ESFM, we're in integrated facilities management.
00:14:37
Speaker
It has growing by leaps and bounds. Integrated facilities management is a growing field in the first place, and then our company is leading the charge with that growth as a company as well. I have done a lot of work recently with trying to talk to different
00:15:03
Speaker
leaders within the company and seeing what their vision is and and helping Explain to them, you know, this is where we're at. You know, we it's not that we don't have a bad safety program We do actually have a very good safety program But there are gaps with every I mean even with the best safety programs you're going to have gaps So we've done a lot of working with senior leaderships to identify that Talk to them about what their vision wants to what they what they want the vision to be and sometimes help them figure that out and
00:15:31
Speaker
because especially with leadership that doesn't have or hasn't dealt in that realm or been exposed to the safety field very much, they don't always know what a good program looks like or what good looks like or what great looks like, right? Yeah. Or what even the pieces
00:15:52
Speaker
that are part of it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And so I've got to have those conversations and sometimes in with some conversations get very granular to to to explaining and that's okay because at the end of the day, I think, you know, I think all senior leadership
00:16:11
Speaker
people in general people in general want to do the right thing um it doesn't it's not always an easy conversation because again we're trying to run a business right and so sometimes there's that competing priorities and and just but having sitting down and having those conversations i think is just the first step of trying to figure out what works best for this company what works best for this team what works best for this facility
00:16:37
Speaker
That's a really beautiful way to talk about it is a vision. I love that. I love that. To be able to sit with different leaders and ask, I mean, do you ask that simple question to start with, Rusty? Like, what does, what is your vision of a healthy and safe workplace look like? I mean, is that kind of where you start?
00:16:54
Speaker
Yes, depending on who that leader is, what I know about that person. Yeah, some of the questions are very basic. And what do you know about safety? What do you think safety is? Where do you think we are? What do you think your vision should be? Or what do you want it to be? You just have to start with those easy and simple questions to get a feel for what that person is looking for, what they even think.
00:17:22
Speaker
There might be a piece of it for you as a safety professional that has to be education. And you won't know that until you ask those questions.
00:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I imagine that each person you speak with maybe has some different drivers in their head. I'm guessing that maybe some people want to know more data sort of things. Tell me about what we're experiencing. Tell me our injuries. Tell me what others like us are like and others might be more along the lines of let's talk about the human beings and how they act day to day or other drivers.
00:17:55
Speaker
Absolutely. I heard once in a communications course that I took internally with the company, the person teaching class said that the majority of us are either visual thinkers or analytical thinkers. And so for me, I'm a visual thinker. If you're explaining something to me, explaining a concept, I want you to paint me a picture.
00:18:18
Speaker
But analytical thinkers, they want that data. They say, you know, give me a graph. Give me rates. And they don't put pictures in their head. Everything is very much just thinking through those concepts. So we have to figure out, you know, what's the communication style of the person you're speaking to or who you're trying to influence or who you're trying to get influence. And that's where you begin.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's really beautiful. What a great takeaway for our listeners is to ask about that vision. I love that. So Rusty, you've been in the industry over 20 years now.
Generalist Skills in Diverse Industries
00:18:57
Speaker
What other industries have you worked in? What sort of things did you pick up on as a young professional?
00:19:03
Speaker
So yes, I have been in the field for 20 plus years now. I worked in obviously sawmills. I did consulting for a while in the automotive and utilities. I worked in the semiconductor industry with a company. I worked in a pulp mill. So kind of along the lines with that.
00:19:26
Speaker
sawmill. Most sawmills are somehow connected to pulp mills as well. And then I found myself with my current company ESFM, which is in integrated facilities management, which is a very different from similar but different from what my previous all my previous experience
Integrated Facilities Management
00:19:46
Speaker
Yeah, and you mentioned that integrative facilities management is kind of a growing field for anyone who's not familiar with really what that type of industry is or does. Do you want to explain it a bit? Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So when I first applied for this job, I had to get my new boss to explain it to me as well.
00:20:06
Speaker
So some companies out there have internal facilities management, facilities maintenance departments within their companies. And really what facilities management is, is it's the group that takes care of the building.
00:20:24
Speaker
takes care of the infrastructure of the site, while all the other associates, all the other departments focus on making the product that the business makes. So if you're in a pharmaceutical company, the primary business is making drugs. But then there's a whole department that's got to maintain
00:20:44
Speaker
the building and the grounds that those drugs are being made in. So integrated facilities management is just the entire service lines. I would probably call it all the various service lines that make up maintaining a facility. So that could be roof work, it could be
00:21:12
Speaker
Okay, I'm gonna have to stop again. My dog is whining in the background. I think we're okay to say and acknowledge. For anyone who's hearing a little bit of whining in the background right now, Rusty has a Basset Hound who is going to be heard today. Rusty, quickly before we keep talking about integrative facilities management, what's the name of the Basset Hound? The Basset Hound's name is Zoe.
00:21:36
Speaker
Oh, Zoe. Yes. And she is a little upset that I'm not paying attention to her. Sorry, Zoe. Zoe's vision is not to have be distracted. She wants all the attention on her. All right.
Outsourcing and Team Collaboration in Safety
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah. So please, please continue. Okay. Okay.
00:21:56
Speaker
So integrated facilities management is the different, I would say departments or service lines that take care of the building or the grounds. So we've got roof work taking care of the actual building itself. So there's roof work, there's windows cleaning replacements.
00:22:16
Speaker
HVAC systems absolutely, boilers, chillers, then there's janitorial services, light maintenance, replacing ceiling tiles, landscaping, all of those things, all of those different lines make up integrative facilities management.
00:22:35
Speaker
Sure. And so you have employees within your company that go into other organizations to do this work. Correct, correct. Facilis management, some people call it outsourcing, but it has it was it's been around for a very long time. It has its origins in Europe who does Europe. Our company, our company has presence in Europe and it's a lot more
00:23:03
Speaker
Frequently done over there. And so it's a growing industry in the US. There are a lot of our clients are pharmaceutical companies. We do have some automotive companies. We do have our particular sectors focuses on manufacturing and so
00:23:19
Speaker
We do have a lot of business in the US and it's just it's growing. It's becoming more and more many more and more companies are realizing that you know what we don't want to focus on that. We want to outsource that to you know we want to subcontract that to these other companies and then we want to focus on our business.
00:23:40
Speaker
And what frequently happens is they pick a company such as our self, ESFM, and either we self-perform the services or we subcontract those out. So for example, we're not going to replace a roof, but we would be that general contractor that subcontracts them out.
00:24:00
Speaker
And then there are sometimes it depends, depending on the location, you know, we can hire somebody or we can subcontract a job out cheaper than we can do it ourselves. And so we just do what's best for the client from a cost savings perspective. And it's just a combination of either we're self-performing the business or we're subcontracting out and managing the contracts.
00:24:25
Speaker
It sounds like a really great way for you and your team if you want to talk about, you know, the people that you work with because you mentioned your, did you say you're the national leader? Yeah, national director. Yeah. And so you must have a team of people you work with and what I'm thinking as I'm hearing this
00:24:42
Speaker
is that what a great way for other EHS professionals to learn a lot about a lot of different kinds of industry. I mean, you said you have some niches, but manufacturing itself, you get to see a lot of things. Absolutely. Yes, we do. We do. And it's been a very interesting journey for me because as I said, I didn't know what facilities management was when I first applied for the job. And I remember thinking that
00:25:06
Speaker
first interview going wow that sounds really cool to work and learn about all these different manufacturers and different things industries and so yes we the team that I work with so I don't have any direct reports even though I'm a national director I don't have any direct reports
00:25:25
Speaker
I have a whole bunch of indirect reports. So a lot of our larger accounts, our larger clients will have their own EHS manager or director working specifically for them. And it all depends on just the hazards associated with it and the amount of associates that are gonna be on a account. And then I provide guidance and resource to all the different safety professionals in our organization.
00:25:54
Speaker
And we also get together frequently when we can to share best practices also across industries. So what works in, you know, say automotive manufacturing may work in pharmaceutical or vice versa. And so we do try to get together and do some best practice sharing where we can with that. It doesn't always work. We've got oil and gas where a lot of things, a lot of the more restrictive safety policies come from.
00:26:23
Speaker
doesn't always work with some of the other industries, but we always try to have those conversations about it.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of getting together, you and many of the people on your team got together at ASSP 2023 in San Antonio not too long ago. And I got to meet some of your team and many of them agreed to be part of this podcast. So if anybody wants to go and listen to episode 106, it's where 20 different EHS professionals from
00:26:56
Speaker
across so many different industries just took time to share a couple of bits of wisdom and a number of those people were from Rusty's team. So thank you for that, Rusty. It was really great to hear from the people that you work with.
00:27:09
Speaker
Absolutely. It was a very fun time. They had such a good time. It was, we didn't get to have everybody with us, but we did get to, we did take a good portion of our group and it just, everyone enjoyed it. Everyone enjoyed the conference as well as getting to talk to you as well.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that was so fun.
Value of Being Generalists in EHS
00:27:32
Speaker
You know, you've worked in so many different types of industries, Rusty, including where you're at now where you're having so much exposure. I know when we've spoken before, you talk about considering yourself a generalist, which is, you know, what I consider myself too. Can you talk about what that means to you and kind of how you arrived at that? Of course. So for me,
00:27:53
Speaker
I think each industry that I worked in, I think perhaps at the time that I worked, I might have thought that I spent more time on a particular topic. But that being said, at the end of the day, through all the different companies and all the different industries, I really
00:28:14
Speaker
was always focused on overall hazard recognition, just the basics, the fundamentals, hazard recognition, making sure that we have, you know, those rules set forth, whether policies or programs, and
00:28:29
Speaker
employee engagement and getting the associates involved but never diving so deep into any particular topic to say I'm an expert in lockout tag out or I'm an expert in confined space entry or hazard communications and
00:28:47
Speaker
any of the other many, many topics out there. I, again, I feel like I can talk to and answer a little bit on every subject, jack of all trades, master of none, so to speak. But at the same time, I would never come out and say, no, no, I'm an expert in that. Right, right. Yeah, like PSM is my thing. Like I know PSM. Yeah, I don't
00:29:14
Speaker
I mean, that's kind of what keeps it fun. I mean, and some people listening are saying like, Oh, I am an expert in a particular area. And, and that's awesome, because we need them agree. And we also and we also need people who know a little bit about a lot of things. Yeah, agree. Because that is our work.
00:29:35
Speaker
Yes, yes. I mean, I have relied upon experts through the years and I'm so thankful for them. I completely agree. I'm so glad they're there and we need them. But at the same time, just working in the industry that I have, it was much more important that I knew where to go look and get the information for any number of topics. Yeah, yeah. And I think a lot of professionals out there
00:30:04
Speaker
Are that way I think some of the bigger companies have the ability to have some of those experts But I think smaller companies or or those sites that only have one or two EHS people They don't have that luxury to focus on one really one particular topic
Continuous Learning and Networking
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah, so thinking back to the number of years you've been at this, and like you said, you came into it with a public relations degree. What have you learned along the way? How did you learn some things? How did you pick stuff up? Did you pursue different types of education along the way and conferences or courses, or how did you do that?
00:30:48
Speaker
Yes, all of the above. Okay. So I early on, I went after the, I went to the OSHA train the trainer courses, some, some of the, the local universities were, were doing OSHA training institutes. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Okay.
00:31:08
Speaker
And I took some courses with them and then from there I just every year was taking something whether some of the companies that I worked for had internal safety conferences where they would put on topics that are you know obviously relevant more relevant to the company.
00:31:24
Speaker
So I learned internally, but I was also almost always taking some type of external course. And I will admit that it was a few years into it. I was a few years into my career before I got involved with ASSP and also before I looked into becoming a certified safety professional.
00:31:50
Speaker
And I completely admit early on with the certified safety professional, I was doing it because I didn't have an education or a background in, I'm sorry, not background, but an education in safety. I felt that kind of limited me. And so I was looking at the certified safety professional more as a validation.
00:32:13
Speaker
for for my resume and getting that you know additional okay I know a little exactly exactly absolutely so but honestly once I once I actually researched it and went after I realized you know the certified safety professional
00:32:34
Speaker
was so much more than just that. So much more than just validation. Even though that is a big piece of it, it opens up so many more doors. Being a part of ASSP is the same way. It becomes a network not only of professionals you can reach out to beyond just that education portion that most people look at initially for
00:32:56
Speaker
Then that opens up the network and in the conferences, as you mentioned earlier about us all being at the ASSP conference, those annual conferences are just a wealth of knowledge. And it was one of the reasons why I wanted to bring members of the team to it because some of them are new in their careers.
00:33:15
Speaker
And they've only ever worked in safety on this one account. This is their only experience. And so being able to meet other safety professionals, being able to be exposed to the wide variety of what the safety profession is at those conferences, I just think is just invaluable. Yeah, I do too. It's really fun. I mean, it was so fun to listen to that podcast recording after speaking with 20 people.
00:33:42
Speaker
wow like you know just being able to hear all these voices in the same recording like i'm in this industry and i'm in that industry and i've had this responsibility or started out in this but then this happened and it was yeah it was it was exactly what you said extremely validating oh yeah you know yeah you know starting out when you when you did when we spoke earlier you talked about what it was like being the only female on a management team particularly as a young person
00:34:11
Speaker
What sort of things would you like to share about that and or advice for people now? So yes, I was the youngest female and only female on the management team of that first sawmill and actually on the next sawmill that I worked at as well. See that first position I was 24.
00:34:35
Speaker
And I think, yes, the next oldest was 40. Yes, I think around that time, or around those age ranges. But it was, again, just a huge learning experience for me to interact. You know, sawmills, paper mills, heck, the safety profession is
00:34:58
Speaker
a male still a male-dominated profession. It's still improved I mean exponentially since you know even 20 years ago but it still is predominantly males but especially in the sawmills it was and you know I again I was lucky with the amazing group of people that I got to work with and
00:35:18
Speaker
They taught me about business. They taught me about the interaction of safety in business and the importance of, yes, we have absolute rules to follow from a safety perspective. There are things that we have to do. Going into those conversations with my counterparts with an open mind and trying to work with them to find a solution as opposed to trying to prescribe,
00:35:48
Speaker
That solution made the conversation and got the buy in that was typically needed to enact that solution. That was vital for me to learn to be.
00:36:05
Speaker
communicate and being open minded and just it made everything go so much smoother and I think that would be probably my biggest advice for anyone coming into the safety profession. Yeah, not to prescribe.
00:36:20
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. Have those conversations, every conversation, be over communicate. But be open to those conversations and trying to figure out a solution together because those solutions are almost always going to be implemented more successfully most of the time than anything that you would try to come up with by yourself or prescribed.
00:36:45
Speaker
Yeah, that makes complete sense. That's how I've practiced as well. I mean, especially when you're, you know, you're not the expert in a particular
00:36:57
Speaker
Oh, you know, a work area, a process, a project, the, you know, the person who does the job for eight or 10 hours a day knows the work in a way that you never will. And being able to have, yeah, and being able to have that conversation like, okay, I've identified this, this, and this as what I see as risks. You know, tell me about that.
00:37:21
Speaker
and then how can we mitigate around it or however that conversation goes, but to do it in community with people. That's a good word right there, community. Because that facility or that company that you work for, it is a community and just trying to get
00:37:39
Speaker
those trying to have those conversations and get those buy-ins it's just it's gonna make the process go so much smoother I always whenever I do a any type of electrical training it never fails I have an electrician or several electricians in the course and I always start the training with
00:38:01
Speaker
I'm not an electrician and I am not an expert. So if we have any very specific questions, I am going to call on my experts sitting in this row over here to help me answer because quite frankly to me, electricity is magic.
00:38:18
Speaker
I don't understand it. It's magical. It's deadly. It's magical. Exactly. Amazed every time I flip a switch.
EHS Principles in Personal Life
00:38:30
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. So that typically always gets chuckle out of the electricians and also makes them a little bit more likely to pipe up and answer questions when I absolutely don't know the answer on something. Yeah, to use them as a help aid. That makes sense. That makes sense.
00:38:47
Speaker
Yeah, Rusty, a hard right turn here. Okay. Okay. I have this in my notes about what you learned about buying a new car as an EHS professional. Tell us about that. I mean, we've talked about visioning, we've talked about being in community with people to
00:39:08
Speaker
What can you school us on about buying a new car when you're an EHS professional? Think long and hard before you do that. We're not talking about interest rates right now. No, we're not. Early on in my career, and now things are a little bit different in the safety field as they were, again, 20 years ago. We all recognize that.
00:39:33
Speaker
But 20 years ago, it was common for us to have some type of accident injury and put that injured person directly into our vehicle, especially depending on where we were, depending on the work location, because it could have been, it's quicker for us to drive them to the hospital versus to get an ambulance out there.
00:39:56
Speaker
Sure. I mean, and it sounds like you worked in pretty rural locations at the start of your career. I did. I did. So as you can imagine, what happened is I went out and bought a brand new car. Now, it wasn't brand spanking new, but it was very new and it was obviously new to me, but it was fairly new. And as you can imagine, we had
00:40:19
Speaker
an accident and associates amputated their finger and thankfully we knew where it was we were able to put the finger on ice and wrap the associates in some towels their hand and some towels and then of course I proceeded to
00:40:40
Speaker
not thinking, not giving a second thought, put them into my new vehicle and go take them to the hospital. Thankfully, the associate was fine. Let's start the end of the story with that. The associate was thankfully fine. They were able to successfully reattach that particular finger that sat in ice in my lap on that drive.
00:41:03
Speaker
Yeah, the things that we do in our work life. Absolutely. Needless to say, my new car didn't survive that. I had remnants of that very friendly, wonderful associates the rest of the time that I own that vehicle in my car.
00:41:19
Speaker
as a constant reminder of the work that we do. Absolutely. And, you know, in that situation, again, myself and the associate, we didn't think anything about it, but after the fact, it was like, oh, God, rest of your car. He's like, you know, just let me know. I'll try to wash it. I'm like, stop. You're not going to wash my car. It's all good. It's all good. It's all good. I'll worry about that later. Let's worry about your finger. Oh, man.
00:41:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, so yes, the safety spills over into our home life by extension your car in this case. I know that you had mentioned that your spouses, I think in manufacturing or something, does safety come up in your home life at home or how does that work for you?
00:42:03
Speaker
Yes, yes. Our dinner conversation is very work-related. He is an operations manager for wood products, so he got his start in sawmill as well, which is where we met. He's progressed over to engineered wood products and plywood and stuff.
00:42:23
Speaker
But as a leader, his responsibility is safety. He has safety managers that work for him. So frequently, yes, our conversations are, hey, you know, we've got this situation going on at work. What would you do? You know, how would you handle this? And you know, vice versa. You know, I'll ask him questions about
00:42:47
Speaker
Monetary, you know bill not bill budgeting and you know, how how does company how do companies do this? and so he gives me that operations perspective and So yeah, it's it's an it's always an interesting conversation, especially when you know friends that don't work in manufacturing come over Well, you have your own you have your own language we do we do and we have to stop and go do we have other stuff to talk about
EHS and Operations Partnership
00:43:17
Speaker
Well, I mean, this is, this is wonderful. I mean, anybody who's listening to this, who's maybe starting out in their career, and you're like, wait a minute, what, what about operations? I mean, we, operations is an integral piece of the work that we do. And sometimes operations owns safety, as in Rusty's just saying that, that her husband has people who report to him in the safety
00:43:40
Speaker
sometimes that's not the case. Sometimes operation just gets it dumped on them because there isn't an actual safety person. And then oftentimes, those of us in the EHS field end up partnering with operations because of what Rusty just said, they have budget. Yes. We don't often have budget. Yes, budgets for safety are
00:44:07
Speaker
sometimes an oxymoron depending on the company right yeah for sure but but they always they always figure it out even even if we don't have a budget per se we always most companies always get it figured out
00:44:22
Speaker
Well home improvement projects around your house must be pretty It is he wants to very precisely and I'm just worried about where you know, do we have the proper PPE Do you have all protection on to be on the roof?
00:44:40
Speaker
Oh, it's so true. It's so true. Contractors do not like us. I'm sure they don't. You're asking for proof of their insurance. Absolutely. I want to see documented proof of this. That's wonderful. Oh, man. What a good run. Yeah, Rusty, when you think about your career today,
00:45:03
Speaker
You know, what sort of advice do you have for people in the work right now? Probably my biggest piece of advice is always keep your chin up. In our field, we are not always people's favorite people. Sometimes we are. That's the great thing. It's sometimes 50-50.
00:45:27
Speaker
that's absolutely especially when things are going sideways we're everybody's hero exactly um but it's oftentimes a thankless job um people people call for help you give them the help um and then when you need help they maybe forget
00:45:43
Speaker
that you helped them previously. We're in the background of a lot of times as safety professionals. I think, but more than anything, I would tell people to keep their chin up and to remember that they are helping people.
00:46:02
Speaker
You're making your company you're making the people you work around better You're improving your slice of the world With every accident that you prevent every injury that you prevent you're improving somebody's life and I think I think that's one of the
00:46:25
Speaker
The biggest things for safety professionals, we do have a large section, or not a large, but we do have safety burnout. Our profession does have a piece of that burnout picture in it, and it's exactly due to what I just said. Sometimes it's weird. We don't get the recognition or we don't see
00:46:49
Speaker
what we do, we don't see how we're, it's not even outward recognition, we don't give ourselves the recognition that we deserve in seeing on how we're helping. And so I think that more than anything is, forgive yourself for the mistakes that you make and keep your chin up and realize that you are helping. You're helping others and you're improving your company and you're improving the people that you work with, you're improving their lives as well.
00:47:17
Speaker
Beautifully said. Beautifully said. Rusty, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to share your story. Wonderful, wonderful bits of learning for our listeners today. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure talking to you, and this was a great experience for me. I appreciate it.
00:47:35
Speaker
Yeah, and you know, thanks to Zoe as well for joining in our first Basset Hound on the podcast. And thank you all for spending your time listening today. And more importantly, thank you for your contribution toward the common good.
00:47:50
Speaker
making sure your workers, including your temporary workers, make it home safe every day. If you aren't subscribed in one of your past and future episodes, you can subscribe in iTunes, the Apple Podcast app, or any other podcast player you call. We'd love it if you could leave a rating and review us on iTunes. It really helps us connect the show with more and more health and safety professionals like Rusty and I. Special thanks to Emily Gould, our podcast producer. And until next time, thanks for listening.