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How the Sacred/Secular Divide Is Killing Your Purpose
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In this episode, Ken Freire and Patrick Lowndes introduce the heart behind the Buried Talent podcast and tackle the critical question: why another faith and work podcast? They expose the common disconnect Christian professionals feel between their faith and their daily work, confronting the sacred-secular divide that often leaves believers feeling like their 9-to-5 doesn’t matter to God. Instead, Ken and Patrick argue that your workplace is not a detour from your calling—it's where your calling is meant to be lived out.
Timestamps
- 0:00 - Why another podcast?
- 1:05 - The faith and work integration gap
- 2:15 - The sacred-secular divide and cultural lies
- 4:22 - Beyond entrepreneurship: activating the 95%
- 6:10 - Reclaiming Avodah: work as worship
- 7:23 - You matter now: purpose in "small" roles
- 8:35 - Think like an operator, not just an employee
- 10:14 - Finding clarity, alignment, and the right opportunities
- 12:08 - Calling, Capacity, and Character: the 3 key themes
- 13:33 - Building a relational, interactive podcast community
- 14:56 - Encouragement for young professionals to live sent
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Transcript
Introduction to Buried Talent Podcast
00:00:01
Ken Freire
Welcome to the Buried Talent Podcast. I'm Ken Freire and I'm here with my co-host, the amazing Patrick Lounds. Patrick, this is our first episode. This is the episode that we need to address the big elephant in the room.
00:00:17
Ken Freire
Why another podcast? What is this podcast all about, Patrick?
00:00:21
Patrick
Yeah. Tell me about it. Why there's so many podcasts out there. I feel like everybody like and their cat has a podcast now, right? At this point.
Integrating Faith and Professional Life
00:00:30
Patrick
And so at this point, I mean, we I like to think about this this question of who's having a conversation about something that matters related to the thing that we care about.
00:00:40
Patrick
And as we're looking around, we looked at all the different topics out there. lot of good kind of faith and work, generic stuff that's out there. There's a lot of like, you know, like discern your calling in general, you know, for Christians and stuff there. I couldn't really find anything that really hits in the crosshairs of what we're focusing on with young Christian professionals.
00:01:04
Patrick
who don't just want to consider their life as a, you know, well I either have to go do this ministry thing over here on the weekends or in this, you know, this like volunteerism thing.
00:01:15
Patrick
And then I just go over here and just like, you know, worship money and work and status and all that stuff in the world. Like there's not a ah really solid integration. of those things.
00:01:26
Patrick
And as we were thinking about names for it, we're like, you know what? I think it's it's a little bit like that parable and the dude who buried his talents, plural, but we're talking about talent. like We're burying our time and our skill set, and we're doing it in a way that I think we just need to start talking about it. I mean, how's that sound for a why, Ken?
00:01:48
Ken Freire
That sounds pretty good. i would think so. That's why we're creating the podcast. But I want to dig deeper into it because I think some people might say, well, we have a lot of faith in workspaces. You even mentioned it. There's a lot of people talking about it.
00:02:01
Ken Freire
But where are they missing it when it comes to like this sacred and secular divide? we We hear that concept a lot. But why do people keep missing it even though they're trying to talk about it?
00:02:14
Patrick
Yeah,
Misconceptions in Faith-Driven Work
00:02:14
Patrick
yeah. I think at the end of the day, it comes down to, know, I think in the, especially like I'm pretty big into the faith-driven entrepreneur movement and a lot of conversation happening there.
00:02:28
Patrick
And I feel like what we end up doing in the same way that like in a ministry context where we sort of elevate the role of the leader in front, like the pastor, like, oh, they're the superhero, super Christian,
00:02:40
Patrick
Or maybe someone that's going to do some work overseas, like, oh, that person is so holy, so spiritual, extra super holy people, right? And then like everybody else, like, let's just shoot up a prayer and cut them a check and like, boom, phone phone that sucker in, right?
00:02:51
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:02:53
Patrick
Just we're going to let those people do it. We've done the same thing for entrepreneurs in the business world that are even the faith-driven, what is it? Faith-driven entrepreneur.
00:03:04
Ken Freire
Entrepreneur. Yeah.
00:03:05
Patrick
And we love i'm an entrepreneur. That's cool. like I'll take some credit, get some more spotlight. But the reality can is like so many young professionals and even like college students think about all the college students graduating.
00:03:17
Patrick
We literally just now 2025 had the largest high school graduating class that we will maybe ever see as a country in here in the United States, if you're listening in the US.
00:03:30
Patrick
And now it's just going to start declining in the size of that class. And this class is asking the question, yeah, maybe I have a side hustle, maybe i have an entrepreneurial bug, but what if I'm not an entrepreneur?
Bridging the Sacred-Secular Divide
00:03:43
Patrick
Right. And I think we're going to hit on a lot of topics in this show that speak to what I'm going to call like the 90 percent, the 95 percent of people who are going to go and actually support that entrepreneur. And they need to know, like, how do I show up and not just check the box like an employee?
00:03:59
Patrick
right? But I'm maybe not the visionary entrepreneur. So is there anything in between like world-changing visionary entrepreneur and box-checking employee? And we would say on this buried talent show that, yeah, there's a ton of buried talent and it makes its way up between that gap of basic employee and you know the the leader at the top.
00:04:20
Ken Freire
Yeah. and And to add to that, I think the the bigger thing is, too, is as we're helping people close that gap, I want to keep going back to the the secular sacred divide. Many times we assume that to close that gap, right, to fulfill God's purpose in and have kingdom impact, it's option one.
00:04:38
Ken Freire
Right. You either join nonprofit, like you said earlier, or work in a church. Right. Do something where it's like, I feel like I'm doing ministry. Right.
00:04:47
Patrick
yeah yeah
00:04:47
Ken Freire
Or the second option is I'm just going to go make a ton of money and then just give.
00:04:52
Patrick
yeah
00:04:53
Ken Freire
and And what ends up happening is that actually there's a way better way to do that. And that's part of closing the gap. Am I right?
00:05:00
Patrick
Yeah.
Historical Perspectives on Work and Faith
00:05:00
Patrick
I mean, like to be straight up, like in the year 1300, like we and we invented new words a lot, like over time, right?
00:05:08
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:05:08
Patrick
We invented the word ministry in the year 1300. It did not exist as a word in in in the in Jesus' day when he was out showing people how to how to honor God and how to follow him.
00:05:19
Patrick
And so this concept of avodah, even deeper and in in the Hebrew, like in Old Testament, And then, and then, you know, the acronym most like service, right? And, you know, do those like even being a slave and like serving God, like really faithfully.
00:05:34
Patrick
That concept was very much connected with the workplace. And what do you what do you do for work? Right? Paul was literally building tents and he was doing a ton of amazing work in the marketplace.
00:05:46
Patrick
And that was, I would argue, that was a big reason why he had so much so much impetus in the cities where he went, because he was known. He was the guy producing products and marketable, valuable services.
00:05:57
Patrick
But in Christendom, we usually think about Paul, who is writing the letter, and he's in jail, and he's suffering. But we didn't think about what was he doing with the rest of his time. And I think that's what we need to be thinking about.
00:06:08
Patrick
especially as young professionals, young you know young talent is like, well, I got my whole 80,000 hours of career in front of me. And if you're only if you're like 30 years old right now, if you're a little bit later into that, you've already, you still got like whatever that is, 68,000, 70,000 hours to go And the point is like, how are we using all of of our time in the marketplace, in the workplace to to see God's kingdom show up in
Finding Purpose in Secular Jobs
00:06:35
Patrick
in different ways? So that's, as you can tell, we're a little bit animated, real passionate about that topic.
00:06:41
Ken Freire
Well, and and I think the reason why, you know, and we could go on and on about it, but we see so many people feel like they don't, they feel purposeless, right? They're like, what am I doing in this job?
00:06:50
Patrick
yeah
00:06:52
Ken Freire
I know I'm called to greater things, but right now I'm just like an entry level manager or I'm just working at this quote unquote secular job. Is this really what i might I'm supposed to be doing?
00:07:02
Ken Freire
Or is there something far greater?
00:07:02
Patrick
Yeah. Yeah.
00:07:04
Ken Freire
Yeah. in life and And that's what we want to start to address is like, what if your life looked differently in the place you're working? And all throughout scripture, you see this, right? Where Daniel, he's in exile, but he's still working and he's glorifying God where he's at.
00:07:20
Ken Freire
He's in Babylon, right? Like there's all these different things that we can talk about in our lives that we want to help these young professionals see like you actually matter right now.
00:07:24
Patrick
yeah
00:07:31
Ken Freire
not tomorrow, not next year, right now, you can actually be glorifying God.
00:07:31
Patrick
yeah
00:07:36
Patrick
Yeah, and God could use what might be a starting
Introducing the Frontier Operator Mindset
00:07:41
Patrick
internship. Again, if you're in college and you're like, hey, I'm just trying to like, I'm just trying to like get a little bit of experience.
00:07:47
Patrick
Like my resume is a little bit embarrassed. Like you might be a little embarrassed by what's on your resume right now. That's all right.
00:07:52
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:07:52
Patrick
But the point is, is like, what is that first or second couple roles? Or maybe you are you know three, four, five years in, you've already done so you know your your trip around a few different parts of an industry or you know different different kinds of jobs. what is What does it look like to faithfully serve God in those roles?
00:08:09
Patrick
And also to think, more like a business operator, somebody who is not just staying focused on, well, I got to go in, I got to check the box on this thing, that thing, that thing.
00:08:19
Patrick
But how do i think more about the operation of a business? In other words, like the whole success, all the factors that lead to success. of my mentors asked me, Patrick, what has to go right?
00:08:31
Patrick
What are all the things that have to go right for this venture to work? And that's like a big question.
00:08:35
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:08:36
Patrick
But if you think about that, and like even if you're like a front desk employee and like it's your first job or you're an intern, you have to answer that question right there. What what are all the things that have to go right to give this person that's about to walk through the door of my business a really great experience or online, they just filled out a form. What are all the things that have to go right?
00:08:54
Patrick
That's how an operator thinks as opposed to, oh, well, I'm supposed to send them this follow-up. You might supposed to say, hi, my name. you know And so we need to think more about our jobs than just box checking employee kind of jobs. And that's why and Frontier Operators,
00:09:09
Patrick
We care so much about like, no, like this is a mindset. It's not a job title. This is a mindset that that that transcends job title. And by the way, if you get good at it, you're going to be super valuable in the marketplace for a company in the United States or a company potentially around the world.
00:09:27
Ken Freire
yeah so So Patrick, how do we help these young professionals and within this podcast and with everything Frontier Operators does to shift that mindset from, I know I have a purpose.
00:09:37
Ken Freire
I don't want to be an employee, but I want to be what we've coined the concept of Frontier Operator, someone who has a different mindset. How are we going to walk them through that?
Finding Clarity on Calling and Purpose
00:09:47
Patrick
Yeah. I mean, we want to hit again on this this show, like a lot of the big questions that you're asking if you're in your 20s or maybe early 30s, and you're just thinking about like, I don't feel like like ah maybe I'm leaving something on the field that like I could, there could be more for me that God has for my purpose or that God has for my calling.
00:10:10
Patrick
yeah I think it starts with that, Ken. Like the more that we start out with clarity on what God has already gifted us to. And then the second question is, okay, now that I'm a little more clear about that, how do I then use that? How do I show up in this job?
00:10:23
Patrick
Or how do I maybe need to find people or jobs or industries that are better aligned with what God is asking me to do? We want to ask those questions with you, process through those kinds of things on this show.
00:10:35
Patrick
And then there will be some time too. I'm really excited about this. We're going to have ah some, some young professionals on the show to, to be able to share a little bit about what are some of the steps they're taking to, to refine their skillset and, and to, and to grow themselves in their, so in their capability, but also some clarity of their
Success Stories and Guidance
00:10:57
Patrick
calling.
00:10:57
Patrick
So like, I'm, I'm pumped. It's not just going to be talking heads. I'm not just going to bring in super successful people from, you know, that are, you know, 20 years down the road and just, you know, and talk about how hard it's going to be to to do the ah ah amazing thing that they did.
00:11:10
Patrick
i like those. I think we all like those stories.
00:11:12
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:11:12
Patrick
I feel like this is going to be more approachable though. I mean, that's what I mean. Ken, you have to keep me honest it here. Maybe, maybe it'll still be too aggressive, but we're, we want to make it feel like someone can show up here and, and it is within reach to, to be a faithful business operator type and whatever kind of role you have.
00:11:30
Ken Freire
Yeah, well, you know, the reality, Patrick, is that our our society has demeaned, in some ways, young professionals and young young people because they're like, oh, they're not capable. They're lazy. They're always on social media. They're always doing these things.
00:11:45
Ken Freire
And actually, God's like created us to build, created us to create. And there's so many young professionals who just want to be called to greatness. Right. And sometimes they just need that path and they want to see that path.
00:11:58
Ken Freire
And with with us bringing those people in and them hearing their stories is going awesome.
00:11:59
Patrick
yeah
00:12:03
Ken Freire
And, you know, one thing that i I hear you say that I think this podcast is going to super valuable, if I were make it concise for some individuals, is that there's three broad areas that we're going to
Focusing on Calling, Capacity, and Competency
00:12:13
Ken Freire
cover. One of them is calling, right?
00:12:15
Ken Freire
Clarity and calling. The second one is capacity, the ability to grow your capacity become a higher levelv level leader. And then the other one is just competency, like learn or character, learning how to become the character needed to fulfill your competencies and fulfill your calling. Because if you don't have the character, it doesn't matter.
00:12:34
Ken Freire
Everything will fail. You need those things in order to achieve greatness.
00:12:35
Patrick
Yep.
00:12:39
Patrick
Yeah. Yep. And obviously this this podcast, this is just a conversation. One thing that's unique, I just want to say about this, sometimes as you listen to podcasts and you're like oh, that's cool.
00:12:44
Ken Freire
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:48
Patrick
like It always feels like this conversation that's out there. One of the things that we want to do to make this a little bit more relational is is invite the invite you into the conversation. So if you're listening to this for the first time, like you took the chance on this first episode, what's this thing all about?
00:13:05
Patrick
There's going to be invitations to where you could jump into sort of like live kind of fireside chat know setups where it's it might only be 20 people in a room and we get to interact about a certain
Engaging with the Podcast Community
00:13:16
Patrick
topic. So we we hope that that will also be part of of what we do that makes us different Instead of like a sit on the sidelines consumeristic podcast, more of something that is inviting him into a community.
00:13:28
Patrick
so as we're And we've we've just set that up at the operator community that we've launched. We're going to tell you more about that in the future shows. And we want you to to to engage, to jump in. don't want you to sit on the sidelines of this this show and this community that we're building.
00:13:42
Patrick
And so we're hopeful that that you not are not only formed by this show, but you also get to form it a little bit yourself with the community that forms around it. So butre we're pumped.
00:13:53
Ken Freire
Yeah.
00:13:53
Patrick
A lot of things to be excited for.
00:13:55
Ken Freire
It's going to be great. And that that community, you'll start to be able to we talk about it, but you'll start to find those links on the show notes as well. So for anybody listening to these things and you're interested in that, you'll find that there. It'll be great. Or you'll go to our
The Importance of Mentorship and Final Thoughts
00:14:06
Ken Freire
website. It'll start linking to to the community because that's what we want it to be about.
00:14:10
Ken Freire
If you're listening to this young professional, know we've been in your shoes. We were at one point young professionals just trying to figure out where to go, what to do, how to get there. And we were blessed that we've had mentors along the way to get us to grow exponentially.
00:14:24
Ken Freire
and to be able to do great things for God.
00:14:25
Patrick
Yeah.
00:14:27
Ken Freire
And it's not because we were just like muscling it up in our own effort. It's like, no, we were sensitive sensitive to what God was doing. We were growing in our own lives. And we also had wise counsel.
00:14:38
Ken Freire
So hopefully we can be that wise counsel for you as you're listening to this podcast, you're checking out our stuff, you're you're engaged in the community. Let this be an opportunity for you to say, I'm going to take every advantage in my life.
00:14:50
Ken Freire
to grow and be the person I'm called to be to help bring kingdom impact to the societies around us.
00:14:58
Patrick
Yeah, well said.
00:14:58
Ken Freire
Patrick, any final words?
00:15:00
Patrick
Well said. i mean, we're going unpack more in the next couple episodes, a little bit more of the backstory, kind of the why, and like what what what we're excited about. So I would just say again, and if you've got if if you feel like I care so much about wanting to be faithful, I want to be impactful for God's kingdom, you don't want to sit this one out. Yeah.
00:15:20
Patrick
I hate to say it, like you only you only live once, but you do, right? And so this is your chance to to figure out how, Lord, am i in what ways am I burying my talent and am am I believing lies that I just need to be, I need to need to shed that those lies, those false beliefs, and I need to move from unbelief to belief in every area of life and what's true.
00:15:42
Patrick
And so we're going to hit on that a lot in this show. So I'm so excited for you to be on this journey with us. And And ah that's what I got. There's show one
00:15:50
Ken Freire
All right. The show was stay tuned, guys. Hope you have a great day.