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Ep. 8 - 7 Hacks to Finally Get the Callback.
12 Plays11 days ago
In this episode, Ken Freire and Patrick Lowndes dive into the practical side of job hunting with "7 Hacks to Finally Get the Callback." Building on last week's episode about HR's harsh truths, this one is all about hope and strategy. Ken and Patrick share actionable advice to flip the script on job applications—from leveraging AI the right way to tailoring your resume, building an online presence, networking smart, and more. Whether you’re just out of college or deep into a job hunt, these seven hacks will help you stand out and move closer to that interview.
Resources Mentioned:
Timestamps:
- 01:45 – Hack #1: Use AI tools wisely (don’t let them replace your own insight)
- 04:18 – Hack #2: Tailor your resume and application for each specific role
- 06:44 – Hack #3: Use referrals and network strategically
- 10:36 – Hack #4: Optimize your digital presence, especially LinkedIn
- 12:38 – Hack #5: Show genuine enthusiasm and alignment with the role
- 15:13 – Hack #6: Follow up intelligently, and add value in your outreach
- 16:43 – Hack #7: Iterate, get feedback, and constantly refine your pitch
- 18:02 – Final Thoughts: Start with the easiest change, then build momentum
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction: Faith, Work, and Strategies for Job Success
00:00:08
Dan Sanchez
Welcome to Buried Talent, the show for young professionals that tears down false beliefs about faith and work so you can unbury your God-given talent right where you are. I'm Ken Freire, here with my co-host Patrick Lowndes, and today we're talking about seven hacks to finally get the call back.
00:00:27
Dan Sanchez
Last week, we talked about the five harsh truths that HR won't tell you.
Addressing Myths: Why You Feel Stuck in Job Applications
00:00:32
Dan Sanchez
And after a while, if you start to believe those false truths and and not actually do anything about it, you may start to believe that you're stuck and no matter how many jobs you apply to, you'll never hear back.
Seven Strategies for Securing Job Callbacks
00:00:45
Dan Sanchez
But today, what we're going to talk about is a smarter path for you to actually get that callback. So we're going to talk about the seven strategies that make HR call you, not the other way around.
00:00:57
Dan Sanchez
Patrick, let's just go straight into it because we've got a lot of comfort lot to cover today.
00:00:58
Patrick
Let's get it.
00:01:02
Dan Sanchez
What is point number one? What's a good actionable strategy for them to get ah callback?
00:01:08
Patrick
That's awesome, yes. I want to start off by saying I did spend the first five, six years of my career directly in the HR space, but selling software to ah HR professionals, we'd sell compensation data payscale.com.
00:01:16
Dan Sanchez
Thank you.
00:01:22
Patrick
And we would work with a lot of recruiters and HR VPs and all those things. And today the world is just different from when I was selling software back then to give them compensation data and looking at the salaries.
00:01:35
Patrick
And so what we need to do is figure out how do we even get to that conversation about salary, right? Some people like, Patrick, if I could just get to that conversation of the offer and the salary, that'd be great. So we're going to try to get you there with these seven ways, these seven strategies to help you out.
00:01:50
Patrick
But let's start
AI Tools: Enhancing Your Job Applications
00:01:51
Patrick
with the first one. We did this last time talking about the impact of AI. And so number one, point number one, the first hack we want to give you is leverage the AI tools wisely.
00:02:03
Patrick
Don't let it become your crutch. If you've done this already before, i mean, maybe you've done this with friends or something, you just kind of kind of copied and pasted something out of GPT. A lot of you notice, you all notice like that first like space that it adds in the paragraph that makes the whole thing look off.
00:02:20
Patrick
It's kind of funny when people forget that and they're like, hey, look, here's something, here's my work. And you're like, ah, looks like you just straight up copied and pasted this thing out of GPT, right?
00:02:28
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:02:30
Patrick
So here's how here's how I use it. I'm sure there's lots of opinions on this. We probably have a whole episode just on this topic, but use these tools wisely. I like to start, it's it's all about your prompt.
00:02:41
Patrick
And when you go to kind of write in and start chatting with a GPT or Gemini or whoever you're chatting with, I like to start with ah the the specifics of the things that I already know. Bring your human intelligence in.
00:02:55
Patrick
Because if you're if you leave that on the shelf, you're like, I just want to get a job here. Enter. Right? Like, come on. Like, you're you're an image bearer of God, like the creator almighty. Why not tap in to God's insight? i mean, even like, have you ever thought of like maybe praying first before you start prompting and playing with the LLM?
00:03:14
Patrick
Like, God, what's something that maybe this company, like, show me something while I'm looking at their their website, at this job post. What's something that that I can start with, right? So I would say start with um some insights that you're bringing to the LLM to then let so then let that be the prompt that kind of brings the creativity that the LLM is not going to bring. So, Ken, that's my first shot there is use AI wisely.
00:03:41
Patrick
Don't just be a crutch.
00:03:44
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, and and if you're going to use AI, I would just add this. get Start getting familiar with how AI works. Use it often enough because they'll start to use ah similar language all the time.
00:03:56
Dan Sanchez
So for example, like one thing that I always catch and I get annoyed now that people don't change it, i when AI says, especially ChatGPT, they'll say something like, hey, this is a no-fluff, actionable and like thing.
00:03:56
Patrick
Yeah.
00:04:08
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, who says no-fluff in real life? ah
00:04:13
Patrick
That's right.
00:04:14
Dan Sanchez
it It doesn't. So like just make sure that kind of stuff is not in your ah your your resume or whatever you're using when you're trying to reach out
00:04:15
Patrick
yeah
Tailor Your Resume: Matching Job Descriptions
00:04:23
Dan Sanchez
to people.
00:04:24
Dan Sanchez
Make it have your authentic voice, which leads to point number two, which is that you tailor your resume and application to the role.
00:04:24
Patrick
yeah Nice.
00:04:33
Dan Sanchez
right Make sure you use the exact job titles, keywords, or phrases for the description. may like Show you you understand the needs of people that you're applying for.
00:04:44
Dan Sanchez
Here's what I have found. and Sometimes you just make a general resume and you send that out, but like no one actually understands this. ah I'll give you a great example. I remember one time I was trying to apply for ministry job, a pastor's job.
00:04:57
Dan Sanchez
And ah the recruiter actually reached out to me and they're like, hey, Ken, you have a great business resume, but like most pastors aren't looking for that. If you don't tailor this to show how you have a pastoral heart, it won't matter to them.
00:05:11
Dan Sanchez
So I didn't change my titles or anything like that. I just changed my descriptions of how what I did in that role and how it might fit so to pastoring. And lo and behold, when I did that, all of a sudden, I started to get more applications or or more pastors wanting to interview with me and just say, hey, I see your interests.
00:05:29
Dan Sanchez
I see you have both a pastoral heart and a business heart, like business acumen.
00:05:33
Patrick
Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:34
Dan Sanchez
Let's let's talk, right? So make sure that you are doing that as best as possible.
00:05:36
Patrick
yeah
00:05:39
Dan Sanchez
Here's a good stat to think about. Candidates whose resumes match the target job see up to 10.6 times higher interview rates. So if you can do that with your job, it's going to change drastically.
00:05:50
Patrick
whoa
00:05:54
Dan Sanchez
um you've
00:05:55
Patrick
10x? Wait, wait, hold up.
00:05:56
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, Yeah.
00:05:56
Patrick
So like, if there's, if my chances of like getting to the interview stage, we just talked in the last episode about some of this. If my chances are like 25% that I'll even, a human will look at it and less, let's just say 10% or 5% to even have a conversation.
00:06:03
Dan Sanchez
yeah
00:06:12
Patrick
You're saying that like, my chances would be instead of 5%, like 50%. Like if that if my odds might jump to if i just tailor my resume
00:06:24
Dan Sanchez
Exactly.
00:06:25
Patrick
Wow.
00:06:25
Dan Sanchez
and And that's why i would encourage you guys, if you are going to tailor your resume, man, I know it takes a long time to tailor your resume, tailor it for a specific type of jobs or industries that you're trying to pursue.
00:06:37
Patrick
Yeah, that's it.
00:06:37
Dan Sanchez
Don't have like this spray and pray effect of you're like, oh I'm going to pursue jobs like ministry jobs and business jobs and sales jobs and marketing jobs. Like, man, you're not going to be able to tailor it correctly that way.
00:06:47
Patrick
Yeah.
00:06:49
Patrick
All right.
Networking: The Power of Referrals Over Grades
00:06:50
Patrick
Number three, we're going to get to it is use referrals and network strategically. Some of you know, a friend of mine, Henry Kaysner, who started the faith driven movement, entrepreneur investor.
00:07:03
Patrick
And I heard him talking, were chatting a little bit about his sons who are in college now. And he just made this comment kind of offhand and I'm sure it's it's common knowledge, but I love how he said it about his sons. He's like, I tell my boys, he's got a few boys.
00:07:16
Patrick
He says, college is not about the grades you make, but it's about the hands you shake.
00:07:20
Dan Sanchez
Mmm, that's so good.
00:07:21
Patrick
And I know it's, and think about that, the hands you shake, right? Who are the the professors you're meeting? Who are the guest speakers that are coming to speak at your college, right? that That are bringing sometimes networks of thousands of people to bear, right? And you are like just getting going. You hardly know anybody, right?
00:07:39
Patrick
And it's like, they're showing up. And so again, we're going have a lot more content on this podcast about networking. How do you, how do you go up to someone and and start start a conversation, build that conversation flow as you think about this?
00:07:52
Dan Sanchez
Hey Patrick, somehow it paused when you were talking.
00:07:53
Patrick
Yes.
00:08:00
Dan Sanchez
Can you jump back to number three? We'll just have to start at number three and I'll edit it.
00:08:02
Patrick
That's right. All right, cool. All right, we can do that. And good.
00:08:10
Patrick
All right, number three, use referrals and network strategically. ah Some of you know a friend of mine, Henry Kaisner, who's got his sons now in college, and I heard him say kind of in a conversation we were having just kind of offhand, oh yeah, I'm telling my boys, it's not about college, it's not about the grades you make, it's about the hands you shake.
00:08:32
Patrick
And when you just think about that for a sec, you're like, wow, yeah, there's a lot of truth to that. The stats back it up. um We talked about this last episode. It's only 6% of applications come from referrals, right? People that know you that say, hey, I know ah Susan here or I know Hamdi or I know Mike or whatever.
00:08:51
Patrick
You should take a look at their resume, right? When that app that referral comes in, 37% of the hiring decisions go to the those referrals, right? And so you you might be in college or or just early in your career and you're like, I just don't know that many people.
00:09:06
Patrick
Well, you have guest speakers coming to speak in your class that are running businesses and they're super well networked. You have you know chapel speakers, you got people coming in offering to do mentoring programs.
00:09:17
Patrick
I mean, just think about the two or three people. If you only have one person who's mentoring you, right? And you don't have like multiple mentors. This is your chance to like go take a little inventory of that because referrals and strategic networking are super helpful.
00:09:33
Patrick
And we will be talking a lot more about that on this show as that's a key element to to being a successful um and faithful business operator and young professional. So that's number three, use referrals and networking strategically.
00:09:47
Patrick
On to number four.
00:09:48
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. On to number four. With number three, real quick, if you guys are ever interested, this is a strategy that I've always done, ah real good tactic.
00:09:55
Patrick
Ooh. Okay.
00:09:56
Patrick
okay
00:09:56
Dan Sanchez
I started a podcast and I would invite all the people in the industry that i wanted a job in to actually join the podcast and get to know me.
00:10:06
Dan Sanchez
And that's another way for you to circumvent the hiring process. Because if you say, for example, bring in the hiring manager, right, to your podcast, then all of a sudden, you don't have to do the whole interview process.
00:10:20
Dan Sanchez
They see you face to face. You've had a conversation with them. They know that you could you do podcasts and you have this tool, this skill set under your tool belt.
00:10:26
Patrick
That's good.
00:10:28
Dan Sanchez
It's just really helpful. um But we could talk about that in a totally different conversation.
00:10:30
Patrick
Cool. Let's get
00:10:32
Dan Sanchez
I just want to throw that out there for you guys to just start thinking that you can network in so many different ways.
00:10:37
Patrick
Oh my goodness.
00:10:38
Dan Sanchez
Oh, um Patrick and I both love
00:10:39
Patrick
Number four. Go for
Online Presence: LinkedIn and Social Media Tips
00:10:40
Patrick
it.
00:10:40
Dan Sanchez
networking.
00:10:41
Dan Sanchez
Number four, number four.
00:10:41
Patrick
no
00:10:41
Dan Sanchez
All right, we still got, we're not we're not even halfway through. Number four. Optimize your online digital presence. right Make sure you clean up your social social media. Build an actual strong LinkedIn profile.
00:10:54
Dan Sanchez
Highlight your relevant projects because HR will check. And I would actually encourage you that if you are, as I'm just gonna use this as an example, right? Someone who's looking for marketing, a marketing job.
00:11:05
Dan Sanchez
right I would start to like just connect with as many marketing people on there and start commenting on their stuff. And you start posting the things you're learning about marketing there because they want to see that you actually have the skill sets.
00:11:18
Dan Sanchez
And when you have other people on LinkedIn posting on your things and commenting on your things, man, it's just going to give you ah credibility and authority. So this is going to be really, really huge.
00:11:26
Patrick
Yeah.
00:11:28
Patrick
Even if you don't have a lot, I'll just say even if you don't have lot, right?
00:11:29
Dan Sanchez
So make even if you don't have a lot, yeah.
00:11:32
Patrick
That's a great way to build it is like kind of learn publicly, which you might be like, Patrick, that would be terrifying. But hey, like put yourself in the glass box. Hey, look what I learned today. Maybe maybe you guys all know this already, but check this out.
00:11:44
Patrick
Right. Shows you're you're humble, you're teachable anyway.
00:11:47
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. I mean, i have I have several people because ah i like to learn about AI and um I post a lot about AI or productivity but on LinkedIn. People will follow me and then all of a sudden they're like, oh, I didn't know about this. Can can like I talk to you more?
00:12:01
Dan Sanchez
And it just naturally happens. So the more you start sharing stuff that you're really good good at or the things you're learning, kind you say like learn in public, man, all of a sudden people are just going to be like, oh,
00:12:13
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, that's great. That was a great piece of advice. Or they give you feedback and you're just connecting and networking. ah i I think another thing there that I just want to add is that HR people want to see that you're hungry and that you're always humble enough to keep learning.
00:12:26
Patrick
Yeah. Yep.
00:12:28
Dan Sanchez
If you're stuck with just the stuff that you learned at school and that's it and you're not growing, people are going to notice that.
00:12:28
Patrick
ye
00:12:34
Dan Sanchez
But if you're up to date on the newest trends on whatever your industry is and you're sharing that knowledge, people are going to take notice of that.
00:12:42
Patrick
Yeah, yeah. I like on this next point. Now, here's number
Show Enthusiasm: Aligning Skills with Roles
00:12:45
Patrick
five. Okay, so we got a few more to go here, but number five is show genuine enthusiasm and fit for the role, right?
00:12:54
Patrick
One of the ways I like to do this personally like... like For example, i was just I'm just working on getting a speaking engagement at a pretty large conference. right And so I said, hey, can you tell me about the conference? right And so they gave me the thing, and like this is the goal the conference, of the themes.
00:13:10
Patrick
What I did is I just i did like a Loom video. I used Tela, actually. Tela's pretty cool. I did a televideo and I just basically went through the points that they wanted to hit in the conference. And I'm like, oh, that's so awesome. First, it's always good to praise. Like, that's a sweet mission. I love what you're trying to do. Right.
00:13:26
Patrick
But then you're like, hey, you know, it's cool is like I've been doing that same kind of thing in in point A, B and C. And I love it, too. And maybe even give them a little bit of a nugget of what you can do around that. Demonstrate.
00:13:37
Patrick
you You see, I just said the word demonstrate. Demonstrate. Get the enthusiasm that you like love to to bring to that role, to that industry, to that vision. Right. And if you can do that, guys, I'm telling you, yeah there's a big difference between someone who's like, yeah, I'm very interested in in this in this finance role.
00:13:56
Patrick
And I've got really great grades and I checked all the boxes and I did an internship last summer, too. Yeah, that's what I did. hmm. And that's like me me me, me, me, as opposed to the guy that's like, oh, I love how this finance role, you're like making a difference in how your clients actually can understand their month end close or where they're going strategically. And that gets me excited. I get a little animated about helping people figure out where they're going with finances.
00:14:21
Patrick
Do you tell the difference between those two? right Enthusiasm versus blah or meh. Don't be meh. Before we get to the sixth and seventh point, we got to do our are kind of mid-show little plug. if If you're hearing this and you're like, man, this is pretty sweet. this is kind of I don't want to say sage and you know like maybe over-inflate myself here. but If you like this, can you just on the show, just hit like or follow on the show um in all the different, whatever podcast, Spotify, Apple, you're listening. Or if you're catching this on YouTube, on our channel, just just like and follow that. Maybe subscribe to it.
00:14:55
Patrick
It just helps us reach more people. You guys already know that. I just had to say that. But if you're hearing this and you haven't actually done that yet, now's the moment just pause and do that. right, Ken, number six.
00:15:07
Dan Sanchez
Number six. Well, and when I think about Sage, I thought you just meant old. And I'm like, yeah, Patrick is getting pretty old there.
00:15:14
Patrick
my back um back get
Following Up: Adding Value Post-Application
00:15:16
Patrick
Hmm.
00:15:16
Dan Sanchez
Okay.
00:15:17
Dan Sanchez
Number six, it's follow up intelligently and with value. Right. What we mean here is that like after you apply, make sure you send a concise follow up note. Right. Maybe one to two lines. It doesn't have to be long. Express your interest.
00:15:32
Dan Sanchez
Possibly add one insight or resource you bring to the table. Right. Don't just ask for an update. like and I've done this before with jobs. I'm like, hey, I know that you are in this space.
00:15:43
Dan Sanchez
I just saw this new ah you know research paper that came out. Have you guys heard about it? but like You're just wanting to show that you are capable and that you're you're really wanting to do it. right
00:15:53
Patrick
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:53
Dan Sanchez
Or you might say, hey, I just created this new piece of code. Would you want to see it? right like It's just little things that you're going to keep top of mind where people are like intrigued. You want to hook them to be like, I should double check their resume. I should really see if they're they're actually capable of doing what they say they they are going to do.
00:16:12
Patrick
Wow, that's that's sage. Yeah, if and if you like finish an interview and you don't send an email within 12 hours, like what are you thinking? Come on. And some of you are like, I've worked with you or I had a call with you and you're like Patrick, you didn't send me an email and I am guilty as well.
00:16:28
Patrick
Guilty as charged on that. But hey, we all are learning. We're all growing. Let's get to point number
Continuous Improvement: Seeking Feedback and Growth
00:16:33
Patrick
seven. This is the last hack that we'll give you today. We're going to keep unpacking these. But point seven, um hacks to get that call back is ah iterate, get feedback, and constantly refine your pitch.
00:16:47
Patrick
I've had people, I've got a friend who's just been going after this job thing like literally in the years now. And what's just... Difficult is I don't know how much time and effort he puts into kind of remaking, refining, getting feedback from people that are in the role that he wants to be.
00:17:02
Patrick
And I just got to tell you this. If you're not um if you're not ah talking with people, networking with people that are already in the role, even if it's like a kind of a distant connection, you're missing out on a chance to get some valuable feedback.
00:17:14
Patrick
Another way to get feedback in our operator community. ah jump into the operator community. ah We talk about that occasionally, but like there's people on there, there's other peers that are like, ah, I don't say it like that. My coach told me to say it like this or, hey, my dad's in this industry. He says, avoid that or maybe but focus on that, right?
00:17:31
Patrick
And so we need to share that feedback and refine constantly together. So that's the last piece. if you You can go it alone. You could rely on algorithms and as impersonal as that is, but I'm telling you like the God given image bearing feedback that he can give us, even the insight that we get for the spirit of God that lives in us, that the Holy Spirit is coming through your friend. It's not coming through chat GPT.
00:17:55
Patrick
All right. So get feedback where it counts. ahll I'll step, I'll get you behind, get off the pulpit for a second. Sorry on that one. but But can you bring us home? what What should we know as we wrap this up?
00:18:06
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. You know, for all of you who are listening to this and you hear these seven, you may feel in some ways a little relieved. You're like, there's solutions to my problems. And at the same time, you may feel a little overwhelmed.
00:18:18
Dan Sanchez
You may be like, oh my gosh, this is so many stuff. I don't know which one to implement. Here's what I would say. Start with the easiest one that you know to fix right now. Because the the reality is that these things are not gimmicks, right?
00:18:27
Patrick
Yeah.
00:18:31
Dan Sanchez
They're not things that you're just like, oh, I'm gonna do it and it's gonna work magically, right? It's a process. But when you start to execute on that process, man, people gonna see, they're gonna pay attention to it, that you care, that you can deliver. hr is gonna notice these things, especially if you're following up, if you have a network, if you're engaging, right?
00:18:50
Dan Sanchez
If you're just doing these things, people are gonna notice this.
Networking and Mentorship: Keys to Professional Growth
00:18:54
Patrick
yeah
00:18:54
Dan Sanchez
and people like i love how the scriptures talk about god honors wisdom and diligence and initiative being proactive right there it says that there's wisdom in a multitude of counselors so you just going out and finding p you know your your counselors if not from just your school or your church uh if you don't find them there in the operator community find people that can help you get there because the more you network and the more they help you grow the more you'll land the jobs that you want
00:19:23
Dan Sanchez
So don't feel like you have to spray and pray. ah Don't feel like you have to scream louder.
00:19:25
Patrick
Yeah.
00:19:28
Dan Sanchez
What you need is to speak more clearly. That's what you need. Proverbs 22, 29 says this. Do you see a man skillful in his work? He will stand before kings. And that's what we want for you is that you stand before kings showing that you're capable, not because you were shouting the loudest, but because you stood out the most.
00:19:46
Patrick
Even vice presidents, maybe just to translate that a little bit, you'll stand before owners of companies and vice presidents, right? if you're If you're faithful and skillful, even if you're just getting going, your career, only a couple of years in, whatever, god God can see that faithfulness develop.
00:20:02
Patrick
So that's good.
00:20:03
Dan Sanchez
yeah absolutely so pick one of these and just go after it tweak it implement it and then go to the next one don't try to do all seven right away just do one accomplishment then go to the next one and the more that helps the greater you'll do man again if you guys have loved this like and follow us and also join the operator community right we have a lot of of live events that we do that you could just come in and see what we do and how we work and how we could help you
00:20:08
Patrick
Hmm.
00:20:30
Dan Sanchez
And if you want to be a crazy, faithful, young professional with other mentors and operators trying to live out yeah this beautiful world of a kingdom impact together, come join us.
00:20:41
Patrick
Yeah.
00:20:42
Dan Sanchez
Until then, see us next time.