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Ep. 9 - Two Work Cultures
6 Plays8 hours ago
In this episode, Ken Freire and Patrick Lowndes compare two drastically different work cultures: the "normal" self-focused culture of the world and the countercultural, service-oriented work ethic of the Kingdom of God. They walk through four contrasts that highlight how followers of Jesus can reflect Kingdom values in their 9-to-5 by choosing service over self-promotion, team wins over personal glory, above-and-beyond effort over bare minimums, and people over projects. If you're ready to rethink how you work, this episode gives you a practical framework to evaluate and shift your daily habits and mindset.
Resources Mentioned:
- Book: The Top Ten Mistakes Leaders Make by Hans Finzel
Timestamps:
- [00:12] - Two work cultures: normal vs. Kingdom
- [02:12] - False belief: work is for personal status and gain
- [03:34] - Culture #1: Me-focused vs. service-focused
- [07:11] - Culture #2: Self-glory in delivery vs. team success
- [11:36] - Practical leadership tip: praise team wins, own team failures
- [11:57] - Culture #3: Doing just enough vs. going the extra mile
- [15:26] - Culture #4: Project-focused vs. people-focused
- [18:37] - The truth: work is for serving and lifting others up
- [19:42] - Call to action: Which work culture are you reflecting?
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Transcript
Introduction to Bury Talent
00:00:01
Dan Sanchez
Welcome to Bury Talent, the show for young professionals that tears down false beliefs about faith and work so you can unbury your God-given talent right where you are.
Contrasting Work Cultures with Kingdom Values
00:00:11
Dan Sanchez
I'm Ken Freyda here with my co-host Patrick Lowndes and today we're talking about two opposite work cultures.
00:00:18
Dan Sanchez
Which one are you living? Because the reality is Jesus spoke often about the kingdom of God and contrasted it with the norms of his day.
Future of Work in 2025
00:00:25
Dan Sanchez
But what does that look like in the corporate world or small business of 2025?
00:00:30
Dan Sanchez
What things are normal that we overlook instead of actually engage and try to transform in a better way?
Personal Stories and Preparations
00:00:38
Dan Sanchez
That's what we're going to talk about today. But first, let's do a quick check in.
00:00:41
Dan Sanchez
Patrick, man, how are you feeling today? It's been a busy week for you.
00:00:44
Patrick
Oh, kind of has. And this week is like not a lot of travel, but it was a lot of meetings, a lot of meeting up with people. But yeah, we're recording this on a Friday.
00:00:55
Patrick
So kind of excited about the weekend coming up. We actually, believe or not, we have a wood splitting competition happening at my house because I live in the forest. Yeah, we're inviting like kids and parents.
False Beliefs in Work Culture
00:01:06
Patrick
And yes, we are signing release forms and waivers for liability reasons.
00:01:13
Dan Sanchez
well, I, you know, I texted you earlier this morning cause man, I got a lot going on. My wife is going on a retreat, a woman's retreat for church. So that means I'm taking care of the four kids. So I woke up really early this morning to just start like cranking out work and get stuff done.
00:01:27
Dan Sanchez
Uh, so I'm like, I'm in go mode today.
00:01:29
Patrick
So if I hear like kids in the background, it's because like you're saying, are you home alone right now doing this podcast?
00:01:35
Dan Sanchez
My wife, thankfully, she's still here.
00:01:36
Patrick
Okay. Okay, good. Okay, good.
00:01:38
Dan Sanchez
have a deadline before she leaves.
00:01:38
Patrick
You got coverage for right now. Okay, good.
00:01:42
Dan Sanchez
Exactly. But, you know, we're always busy, you know, like it can feel that way. And even with busyness and just life, there are certain cultures that we're talking about, right, that we realize that they're normal.
Dominant Beliefs vs. Kingdom Values
00:01:54
Dan Sanchez
We act like they're normal, but they might actually not be kingdom cultures,
00:01:59
Patrick
Yeah.
00:02:00
Dan Sanchez
and the way God wants us to walk in. So of walk us through what do mean by these two cultures and which one should we be living in?
00:02:08
Patrick
Yeah, well, on this show, we like to bring up like what is a false belief that's out there that you might not like it's not on a headline, but it's like in the subcurrent of culture. And I think lot of it is like work is just about doing your job well enough to look good and get ahead.
00:02:22
Patrick
It's about like status. It's about like, what is my LinkedIn profile say? It's about salary and compensation. Right. A lot of this stuff is just supernatural. Like it comes all too natural. Like,
00:02:33
Patrick
Help me basically become like my own God, like powerful, wealthy provision status. I mean, it's just crazy. It's just the world is dripping in this desire to be our own king, our own kingdom.
00:02:46
Patrick
And so I think what we need to think about is if that's really what works about our job, then work is becoming this empty kind of self-focused thing. And it completely misses the eternal purpose of why we're even here, why we're sucking...
Me-Focused vs. Kingdom Culture
00:03:00
Patrick
God's heir on his earth. And so I want to talk about these kind of four kind of dominant beliefs in work culture, normal work culture, and how that's different from the opposite work culture I think Jesus would have us look at.
00:03:14
Dan Sanchez
Man, this gonna be a great conversation because I think many of us may fall into those if we don't pay attention and focus in. So Patrick, what's the first work culture that we need to address?
00:03:25
Patrick
Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of funny, like we're all indoctrinated. I mean, this thing that if you can see me on the video, if you're listening on podcast, we actually do record this on video. Just a little side note. So you can look up. I'm holding up my iPhone here.
00:03:38
Patrick
But what is it called? It's not a us phone. It's not a together phone. It's a I. It's like a me phone. It's like our world is baked, like deep fried, if you will, in this concept of me. It's me focused.
00:03:54
Patrick
And I think it's so normal in the workplace context to say, hey, what is you know, what can I get out of this job? Right.
00:04:06
Patrick
Basically, like if I do well in this role, how how is it going to help me? Right. And maybe again, I know a lot of us don't wake up like I'm just going make glorify myself today. We don't usually say that.
00:04:17
Patrick
But just if somebody like put your life on mute, just watched you this is like a super convicting moment here if someone just if somebody just if somebody like watched you on mute forget what you say would they be like oh man ken he is like he's just he's he loves he's others focus look at how he's sacrificial he's serving or they're like man ken is just all about taking care of ken
00:04:25
Dan Sanchez
I'm already convicted. I don't want you to finish it.
Delivering Work vs. Team Success
00:04:44
Patrick
looking out for like all these things. And so that's going to be a thread that you're going to see. It's common. Now, again, I don't mean to say every single person in the work culture is always just like beating their chest. It's about me.
00:04:55
Patrick
But it's just undercurrent. And you can see it a lot of the influencers. I mean, just flip on any of the socials. And it's like, it's usually about something to like make you better, to have your business succeed, to give you independence, to give you freedom so you can look healthy. So all these things, you, you, you.
00:05:12
Patrick
And I think the opposite of that, when Jesus walked around, like this is our job as Christians, is like, what is the kingdom? Jesus said that the kingdom of God would come into earth. What does the kingdom work culture look like that's different from me-centric one?
00:05:25
Patrick
And I think Jesus would be asking the question, how, if I've been given gifts and skill sets, how am I using those to serve others, right? It's the basic of like, you know, I'm loving God and loving people.
00:05:39
Patrick
What does it look like to be service focused in my job? So you might have a job, you might, if you're still in college, you might have like a part-time job on campus. You might be in an internship. You might be in your first several years of work, just trying to kind show what you can right?
00:05:53
Patrick
And let me tell you, like you have an opportunity today be either me focused in my job and the things that the tasks that I'm working on to build up your ego and identity, or you could be more service focused.
00:06:04
Patrick
How can I, who can I serve today? How can I give of my time today? Maybe it means like you're going to help your coworker on a project or you're going to check in with your boss and like try just in a small way serve them today.
00:06:16
Patrick
That's going to look like you giving something, giving a bit of your time or your focus to someone else. So that's number one is like a me focused employee, which is like the world's way of doing things or like the kingdom culture of serving people. That's number one.
Beyond the Bare Minimum
00:06:30
Patrick
What do you think?
00:06:31
Dan Sanchez
You know, and what's crazy about that is that like when you start to think about me versus serving other people, when you start serving other people, they might actually get the praise and the accolades and the recommendations versus you.
00:06:45
Patrick
Yep.
00:06:45
Dan Sanchez
And that, you know, some of us love that.
00:06:46
Patrick
Yep.
00:06:47
Dan Sanchez
Some of us want the attention. Some of us want the praise, but you're not going to get that, which actually leads to the second work culture that we need to walk through. So walk us through that, man.
00:06:56
Patrick
Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Number two, normal work culture, very natural. It's not necessarily bad. just want to contrast it from how the kingdom might look at this.
00:07:07
Patrick
Normal work culture is, the second point is to, is all about delivering my work, right? And again, have to do our work. We have to show up. We have to be excellent at our work. But if your responsibility stops after you deliver your work, after your project gets submitted, after your analysis is done, if it stops,
00:07:29
Patrick
And then you're in the team meeting and you want to like call attention to like, hey, I was able, I actually, I delivered it yesterday at five o'clock. Did you see what I delivered? Right?
00:07:39
Patrick
That sounds a little bit like the first point, right? Do you see what I delivered?
00:07:42
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:07:43
Patrick
Right? And it's a little bit like, you're kind of like, hey, like, yeah, don't praise me, but like praise me. Right? It's like self-glory focused.
00:07:52
Patrick
Now, yeah,
00:07:52
Dan Sanchez
It's the humble brag, right?
00:07:53
Dan Sanchez
We used to say that back in the day.
00:07:55
Patrick
Yeah, exactly. And again,
Project-Focused vs. People-Focused
00:07:57
Patrick
don't want people to hear this and be like, Patrick's saying we shouldn't deliver our work. No, you deliver your work. That's great. But let me tell you, here's how the kingdom, I think, would do this differently.
00:08:05
Patrick
The kingdom would not only deliver your work, be excellent at your work, be competent at your job. But here's what's key. Because Jesus modeled this for us, it's the self-sacrificial pointing to the team, helping the team win.
00:08:23
Patrick
So for example, most of us are on a team, whether it's like you and your boss together working as a team, or maybe your whole team as a team. The kingdom way is how is this going to help the team win, the community win?
00:08:35
Patrick
And I wouldn't even have to say this to a lot of people coming in from more of like an Eastern or more communal based culture. I wouldn't have to talk about this point because many people have it ingrained like, no, no, no, like it's for our family's honor.
00:08:47
Patrick
It's for our family's It's for community success. But here in the individualistic West, it is so individual focused. It's really hard work to be like, no, what matters is that not that I got my deadline done, but that the whole team is succeeding together. And so the second point is, not only your service focus in the kingdom, but how am I helping my whole team win?
00:09:10
Patrick
And hey, maybe I got my thing done, which is cool if you got it done. Pat yourself on the back in your prayer closet, not in front of the team in the team meeting. How do I help the rest? Did my team get the thing done is the big question, Ken, right?
00:09:22
Patrick
And I think that's, I think if Jesus was in our work environments, he would be concerned
Leadership and Team Dynamics
00:09:26
Patrick
like with how's the whole team, how's my whole department, how's my whole division doing, right?
00:09:30
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. You know, I remember working at a nonprofit. I think this my first year there. I had a supervisor and she was probably one of the most amazing supervisors I have had this day, actually.
00:09:43
Dan Sanchez
And her name was Ava. And remember we were just crushing it the call center as a team. I mean, just completely like just doing a great job. We're hitting our numbers.
00:09:53
Dan Sanchez
And I remember someone asking her, what do you think is success? Like, how are you guys hitting these numbers? And I'm used the manager and the boss just taking the glory.
00:10:04
Dan Sanchez
And I just clearly remember she's like, oh, well, you know what? It's because of this person right here. This is what they're doing. And look at what they found here. And look at all this stuff that she's pointing to all of us, you know, interns and staff and telling them, telling us how great we're doing.
00:10:19
Dan Sanchez
And in the back of my mind, I'm like, wait a minute, but you also set up all these processes for us. She could have easily taken all the credit, but she didn't. She just was showing how the team did it.
00:10:27
Patrick
Yeah.
00:10:29
Dan Sanchez
And I just remember that moment because I said, oh, that's what a good leader does.
00:10:33
Patrick
Yeah.
00:10:33
Dan Sanchez
I'm going to emulate that.
00:10:34
Dan Sanchez
And every time something's successful, the thing that I think is, and this is a great leadership tip for a lot of you who are listening to this. Whenever you have a success, make sure the team gets the praise. And whenever there's a failure, you own the failure. leader.
00:10:47
Patrick
As a leader. Yeah. Especially if you're the one.
00:10:50
Patrick
Yeah, exactly. That's good.
00:10:52
Dan Sanchez
And I just remember that. And that's how I always live. And I'm like, oh, we messed up. Yeah, that was on me. This is what I didn't do. I didn't set up my team this way. I didn't take care of them this way. And that just immensely helpful.
00:11:01
Patrick
Okay.
00:11:02
Dan Sanchez
But when there's good, I'm always showing that the team did it.
00:11:07
Patrick
Yep.
00:11:07
Dan Sanchez
It's not about me. It's about them.
00:11:09
Patrick
Cool. Before we get to point three, really quick call out. If this is kind of interesting, you're like, hey, this is super helpful. Just go ahead and like or subscribe this or to this to this show on your podcast app. Or if you're watching this on YouTube, just subscribe the channel.
Call to Action: Engage with the Show
00:11:22
Patrick
That makes other people get to see this as well. And the algos are like, hey, this is pretty hot stuff. Let's put this in front of people. All right.
00:11:30
Patrick
Point number three. Point number three. What is normal work culture say? Often it is doing just enough. Right. Normal work culture is like, man, what's my quota?
00:11:30
Dan Sanchez
Absolutely.
00:11:39
Dan Sanchez
Oh yeah.
00:11:43
Patrick
What's my goal? When does that project do? Maybe, oh, I got to work in this job at this hourly rate. And then I punch the clock and go home. It's focused on kind of doing just enough to kind of get the job done so that I can. And again, it might not. People aren't showing up to work like, you know, what's the least amount of work I can do today?
00:12:02
Patrick
Right. You probably heard this about water, like water finds the lowest, the lowest spot, the easiest path of least resistance. And as humans, we're like that sometimes. We're like, man, well, how do I just slip through this day, make it nice busy?
00:12:14
Dan Sanchez
oh yeah
00:12:15
Patrick
I'm tired, right? Aren't we all tired? And so doing just enough, right? So I could like check my boxes. could get onto my real gym, my real vibe, the thing that I like to to hang out. And I just want to tell you, like, that's not the picture that Jesus gives us of the kingdom as he laid it out.
00:12:31
Patrick
I mean, one of the best examples is like in Matthew 5, Jesus is talking about, so in his day,
Final Thoughts on Kingdom Culture at Work
00:12:38
Patrick
the Jews were like, hey, you're going be walking along. And there was a lot. If a Roman soldier asks you to carry their gear for one mile, you had to do it.
00:12:47
Patrick
Otherwise, like, don't know the actual penalty, but like you had to carry the stuff for a mile that was the rule right and jews knew this they hated it they despised it i mean imagine like these are your captors and like sort of overtaking you and overlording and you know jesus said he's like when they ask you to carry it a mile they're like yeah yeah they're like what throw throw stuff in the dirt rub it in the dirt jesus is like actually carry it two miles
00:12:52
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:13:12
Patrick
And man, it's so convicting. So the way of the kingdom, the thing that's opposite is not just doing the minimum, not just knocking out your job, but going above and beyond and saying, hey, I nailed my job. I did what you asked me to do.
00:13:26
Patrick
But what else can I do? How else can I help? I actually am trying to work on this even in my own home. Sometimes with my wife, like she's trying to get all the kids out the door.
00:13:37
Patrick
And I'm like, oh, cool. Like I, you asked me to make lunches. Cool. lunches are done. And one part of is like, all right, I'm good. Let me get back to my stuff. But then, but sometimes God's spirit is like, bro, like, what are you doing? Slow down.
00:13:50
Patrick
And he's Yeah. Yeah. And so I've just been trying to get in this habit personally of like, Hey honey, what else can I do to help? How else can I be helpful? Right. And that question, she knows that it's hard. Sometimes it's hard. Cause like I'm driving, driving, and stopped my whole day to kind of help them like get in the car.
00:13:50
Dan Sanchez
Help her get in the car, help the kids get in the car and all that stuff.
00:14:07
Patrick
And if you're listening to this, don't have kids. Trust me. It's a, it's a thing. Like, Oh, it's just five kids, lunch, like bags, shoes, jackets. Oh my goodness. So golf,
00:14:16
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, you think it's a five minute thing or even a two minute stop. It becomes like a 30 minute ordeal.
00:14:22
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:14:24
Patrick
When you show up at work today or tomorrow, the question is, can you go above and beyond? What does it look like to go above and beyond at work? And not just, yes, deliver your job. Yes, do your job. But then ask, what else can I do to serve this customer? What else can I do?
00:14:37
Patrick
And you'll notice those the people that get more of the attention of like, why is this person so good at what they do? And they're so giving of their time. Let's get to the fourth one. The fourth one is... Project and deliverable focus.
00:14:50
Patrick
All right.
00:14:51
Dan Sanchez
Hmm.
00:14:51
Patrick
This is, I mean, if you show at your job, depending on what industry, if it's maybe if you're in a service oriented industry, that might be one of the big exceptions. Like if your whole job is like customer service, perhaps you tend to be more customer focused. How do we solve their need? But a lot of companies, a lot of jobs, there's some sort of thing you're working on and your job, the world and the work culture says you better deliver that project.
00:15:15
Patrick
And a lot of your energy is around delivering projects and outcomes, which, again, they're good. It's not like they're bad. But I think the kingdom of God is not about, like, if you died tomorrow at the judgment throne of God, he's not going like, hey, did you finish that spreadsheet?
00:15:32
Patrick
And, like, did you deliver that report well? And he cares about that. But if you think his questions of, like, worth are going to go towards what you produced, right?
00:15:42
Patrick
I think that you're missing what a lot of Jesus showed us and demonstrated is it's actually more about the kingdom paradox of that is people focused. How did you love people well?
00:15:52
Patrick
How did you, yeah, you got that project done, but like, did you stomp on your teammates to get it done? Were you a jerk to the person? Man, I'm convicting myself now. Sometimes with customer service people, when something's breaking, I'm like,
00:16:04
Patrick
oh, don't be a jerk to this person. It's not their fault. It's my fault. It's the technology's fault. How are we people? How are we people focused is the thought here. So that's the fourth one. Are you just focused on getting the project done or are you focused on serving the people, loving the people you're working with?
00:16:21
Patrick
Ken, what's your reaction to that as we close?
00:16:24
Dan Sanchez
Yeah, you know, there's this great book by Ken Blanchard. I think it's like the 10 leadership mistakes that people often make. And one of them, he uses different terminology, but it's paperwork And so many of us can focus on the paperwork, like, oh, I got to get this done because this is my job.
00:16:37
Patrick
Yeah.
00:16:41
Dan Sanchez
But you don't realize who you're hurting. And you don't realize that, like, it's the people that actually get the results done. So I always want to be mindful that because I think you and I both drivers.
00:16:51
Dan Sanchez
I can be so focused. And sometimes this happens to the detriment to my family, right? I'm, like, so focused on working or getting something done. My wife is like, Ken? You need to be a little bit more gentle with the kids. They're not 18. They're not your employees. And I'm like, they will be one day. Let's go.
00:17:08
Dan Sanchez
And she's like, no, no, no.
00:17:09
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, you're right. You're right. You know, I got to slow down because it's not about checking the boxes all the time.
00:17:11
Patrick
Yeah.
00:17:14
Dan Sanchez
And don't hear what we're not saying. OK, we're not saying don't work. We're not saying don't check the box and stuff. You should be working like you're working for the Lord.
00:17:25
Dan Sanchez
Right. Everything it with excellence.
00:17:25
Patrick
Yeah.
00:17:27
Dan Sanchez
At the same time, making sure that people are always involved with any type of project that you're doing. How are you dealing with them? I love how you were talking about customer service.
00:17:37
Dan Sanchez
There are sometimes people who I'm like, you have no idea what you're doing in your job and you're driving me nuts right now. Find me someone more competent. And I have to slow down.
00:17:45
Patrick
Yeah.
00:17:46
Dan Sanchez
I'm like, it's not their fault. They're trying their best.
00:17:48
Patrick
Yep.
00:17:50
Dan Sanchez
Let me calm down. So that's my reaction to that.
00:17:52
Patrick
So let me leave you with the last. I'm leaving you with the last thought. We're wrapping up here.
00:17:56
Dan Sanchez
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:56
Patrick
So again, the lie that we're tempted to believe is like work is all about me. It's my image.
00:18:02
Patrick
It's my survival. Right. It's my paycheck, my career progression. Right. And to some degree it is. But the truth is, as a follower of Jesus, like putting God's kingdom on display in my workplace, it's actually about serving people.
00:18:17
Patrick
It's about lifting others up. It's about, yes, how do be excellent and competent in my job? You don't you really don't want to like, oh, I love Jesus. And then you suck at your job and you get fired. Like you're like, I had Jesus. People get fired. They suck. We don't want that either.
00:18:31
Patrick
So we're kind of saying like do great work, which is already hard, and then be sacrificial at the same time, which is that's what Jesus didn't call us to this easier life, just like love people and everything will work out.
00:18:31
Dan Sanchez
Yeah.
00:18:43
Patrick
It's also hard work. Love God with all your what strength with all your mind. So we have to do that. So here's the call to action. Are you showing up to work copying the works, the world's culture of
Challenge to Listeners
00:18:55
Patrick
working?
00:18:56
Patrick
Or are you showing up to work, putting the kingdom on display in these ways? Be challenged with that, and we will catch you next time on Buried Talent.