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4 - X-Men #18-22
30 Plays2 days ago
Okay, I lied in last episode's show notes. We left you on a cliff-hanger again. But I PROMISE we won't do it again here.
Werner Roth is off and running as Stan Lee hands the reigns of the world's strangest super-team over to Roy Thomas! Stan Lee seems to wrap his story up by bringing the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to a pretty final conclusion and introducing The Mimic!
We also talk about:
Magneto treats Toad like shit. Do sulfa drugs do that? What is a Counter-Ego? An anti-mutant mob! Cal Rankin is a dick. Using a MEMORY ENHANCER because you forgot a dude's name. Hot Tub Time Machine. Innuendo in the desert. The Unforgettable Porter Mack! A guy with a gun on his head. And dubious claims of "yester-year."
Email us: mutantmenacepod@gmail.com
Instagram: @mutantmenacepod
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Transcript
Live Report from Westchester by Trish Toby
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Trish Toby with W.A.R.C. reporting to you live from Westchester, New York, where there appears to be some sort of mutant menace on the loose.
Podcast Introduction and Journey to Studio
00:00:34
Speaker
Matt Aucamp. Pat Reber. Welcome to Mutant Menace. Hey, thank you. ah I'm glad to be here. I took two buses and a train to get here, and ah you made me wait outside in the rain for 13 minutes.
00:00:52
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'm glad you made it. Thank you for being my guest. ah Good to have you on the pod. Wait, why is your assistant waving me? Is my segment done? Yeah, thank you so much for stopping in.
Debate on Podcast's Public Appropriateness
00:01:05
Speaker
but I wanted to ask you, as I'm kicking this off here, what the fuck? what ok So I'm sure there's going to be some delay here. It's probably a few weeks between recording and release. But today we announced that we are doing this podcast, that we're releasing it on all platforms, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah. i Do you think this is appropriate for public consumption? Do I think this podcast is appropriate for public consumption? Yeah, yeah. Should we be sharing our thoughts on this with other people?
00:01:43
Speaker
ah i I don't see why not. did What did you think we were doing here? Just hanging out, recording it for posterity. Oh, that's embarrassing.
00:01:54
Speaker
ah Because I thought I had said from like the very beginning.
00:01:59
Speaker
You went for a sip at the exact wrong moment, Patrick. I did. You were talking, you said, from the very beginning and then left off as if you were continuing a sentence. was still Look, listeners, we're still getting...
Podcast Dynamics Compared to TV Shows
00:02:11
Speaker
look i'm We're leaving that part in. We're still getting each other's rhythms is the thing. Me and Pat have worked together for over 10 years.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah. think of this as Think of this episode four as season four of a television show where... the actors are still getting to know each other, still kind of working out their timing and their characters. You think that happens in season four?
00:02:35
Speaker
You think it's season four, ah John Krasinski would get to the his office and be like, wait, who's this guy? Oh, uh, Rain! Rain, rain, rain, rain, rain! You played Doolin Wig. you're being ridiculous. They know each other. They know each other by that point. They just, they're still feeling out the scene. They're still deciding who the lead is.
00:02:59
Speaker
Look at ah Season 4 of Community. Perfect example of...
00:03:05
Speaker
Season 4 of Arrested Development. Another perfect example of yeah them finding their legs. They're still still trying to figure it out to this day. There's something true about that, actually. but I feel like, because I feel like in a TV series, it's around season two that the phenomenon you're describing happens, and then season three is when things start to cartoonify, and it's season four that everyone kind of forgets Because it's by then they've absorbed all the media about their show.
00:03:37
Speaker
And so they know like, oh, I'm supposed to be the cute, awkward one. Oh, he's supposed to be the goofy, dumb one. Oh, she's the sex. Why did I do with that? Why did I do that, Pat? Why did I make the first time I used a female pronoun? That was something sexual. It was something sexual. It's ingrained into us, Matt.
00:03:55
Speaker
i That's what we're doing this podcast to fight against. it's the season four It's the season four slump. In season four, everybody's like latent sexism starts to ooze out in late these
Focus of Podcast Intros: X-Men or Not?
00:04:08
Speaker
subtle ways.
00:04:08
Speaker
Did you do anything X-Men related this past week?
00:04:13
Speaker
Do you think that's what... Okay. Since we're in season four, we should really start hammering this stuff out. Do you think that's what we should be talking about? Like... in these intros is, hey, what X-Men related stuff have you been doing this week? Or do you think this is our time to be like, hey, what non-X-Men related like books have you been reading? What non-X-Men related theme parks did you visit?
00:04:36
Speaker
Oh, I mean, there's no reason we can't cover both. Did you do anything X-Men related in this past week? Why are you dodging my question? That's a good point. If you did go to an X-Men related theme park, I would want to know about it I'm still, you know, this will be, i don't know if I should talk about this every episode because it's always going to be true.
00:04:55
Speaker
and I'm always going to be 20 years ahead of us. but yeah I just passed Inferno in my private X-Men read.
X-Men Storylines and Personal Anecdotes
00:05:06
Speaker
And I'm at that place where the X-Men, you know, right before the 90s, didn't quite realize this. There's this period of time.
00:05:14
Speaker
Where the X-Men break up like ah everybody's either dead or left temporarily or permanently. Yeah, yeah. And there's this moment and I don't know if it's we'll talk about it in, you know, three years or whatever. i don't know if it's an editorial mandate or or or what, but but all at the same time.
00:05:33
Speaker
ah The X-Men go through the siege perilous. Excalibur gets sucked into, like, ah alternate dimensional time warp. X-Factor goes to space and gets involved in some sort of space war.
00:05:45
Speaker
The new mutants go to Asgard and get involved in some sort of Asgard drama. It's every X-Team, for whatever reason, just is gone. And are they are they... But they're still running the titles...
00:05:59
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yes, they're they're running the titles, but nobody is like on Earth. Nobody is aware of what's happening to one another. Everybody's just missing from the world or each other's lives. And there's a minor, not a minor plot. There's a major plot, but that is a minor, like a minor motivation for a major plot point in X-Men.
00:06:17
Speaker
Was that all the all the people hanging out on Muir Island are like, everybody's gone. there's nobody There's nobody here but us.
00:06:28
Speaker
Maybe we should do X-Men instead. Anyway, interesting little era. How about you? Did you do anything X-Men related? Uh, no. Okay, but did you do anything cool non-X-Men related?
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah, I did go to a wedding, a small elopement ceremony. A couple of friends very suddenly decided to get married, and it was beautiful. It was beautiful ceremony.
00:06:52
Speaker
little It was inside their South Philly row home. really very It was the most intimate wedding I've ever been to. been to a lot of weddings. I'm just sitting here trying to figure out what's funny about that.
00:07:05
Speaker
We don't have to be funny all the time. It just sounds it sounds pretty, sounds beautiful, sounds touching. Yeah. But what's stupid about it? what's this What was so stupid about that wedding that you just can't contain it?
00:07:16
Speaker
ah Nothing. It was beautiful. It's a celebration of Marriage rules. Yeah, we'll get there. I guess we'll figure it out by the end of the podcast. we'll We'll both think on it. What was so fucking just mind-numbingly stupid and made you hate everything about it? And we'll get there by the end of the podcast, probably.
00:07:30
Speaker
Okay. They did have... They had a huge cake, which is not... Idiots! No, no, no. It was delicious, but they have half of like 16-inch three-layer sheet cake.
00:07:43
Speaker
not half of like a sixteen inch three layers ah's goingnna be Sitting in their house like, oh, what do we do with this half of a cake? well a littleum ah You get them.
00:07:54
Speaker
Both very sharp dressers, too. Both very handsome. Hey, Patrick.
X-Men Issue 18 Details and Analysis
00:07:59
Speaker
Yes? Can you tell me about issue 18 of the X-Men? Yes, I can, Matt.
00:08:06
Speaker
ah Issue 18 of the X-Men, If Iceman Should Fail. yeah Release date.
00:08:17
Speaker
Release date January 4th, 1966. The cover shows it as the March 1966 issue. a fair story by Stan Lee. Adequate art by Jay Gavin, who we all ah know to Werner Roth.
00:08:30
Speaker
Tolerable inking by Dick Ayers. And the world's greatest letter lettering by R.D. Simek, Marvel's birthday boy of the month. Exciting stuff. Worth noting that there is no Jack Kirby layout here.
00:08:43
Speaker
interesting Yeah, this is the first completely Kirby-less issue, huh? Yeah, we do get a Stanley recap here of where we left off at the end of our last episode in 17.
00:08:57
Speaker
One by one, the X-Men have been defeated by the most powerful, the most deadly foe of all. It's Magneto. They don't mention that it's Magneto in the recap, with but we saw that in the last issue.
00:09:08
Speaker
Far above Earth, a balloon is drifting, climbing ever higher toward the distant substratosphere, bringing the X-Men ever closer to their doom. Can you imagine a little kid running into like their parents' room at that point? Like, Mommy!
00:09:22
Speaker
Daddy! The comic book said a balloon is in the air! yeah yeah it's not It's not very intimidating. We do open on an image of exactly that. The X-Men and Professor X floating in a metal ball attached to a balloon high above the earth, all passed out.
00:09:42
Speaker
Meanwhile, Magneto is ripping the X-Mansion from the ground, but then puts it back, deciding instead to make it his own headquarters. Warren's parents show up at that moment and Magneto welcomes them in and then hypnotizes them and encourages them to go off to bed. This is apparently something he can do with his magnetic powers.
00:10:04
Speaker
i Bobby continues to lie unconscious in a hospital bed until the doctor blasts him with a new experimental sulfur ray and he starts to recover. like Xavier comes to in the gondola and he starts struggling against what we find out are mental shackles attached to his head.
00:10:21
Speaker
He finally breaks free and is able to bring everyone back to consciousness. They start developing a plan to escape. Back at the mansion, Magneto assembles a machine and reveals his plan. He's going to feed the genetics of Warren's parents, since they are two people who biologically produced a mutant, into his machine and create an army of mutants.
00:10:41
Speaker
He's ahead of ah genetic science by, you know, 40 years. Yeah, he is i combining genetics just through a ray, too.
00:10:52
Speaker
Which we won't we won't do until we do it to a sheep in like the late 90s, right? Well, that was a clone. This isn't cloning. He is extracting genetic data.
00:11:04
Speaker
So I guess... Yeah, in what way isn't that cloning? Because what they did with that sheep is they... is Not to digress. ah Please digress. We have to talk about this sheep.
00:11:15
Speaker
We gotta talk about this sheep! okay Every podcast is talking about this sheep. We're not gonna be left behind. Dolly the sheep was a cloned sheep. I think it was 1996. Created whole cloth from one other sheep.
00:11:30
Speaker
It was... They took the DNA from one sheep and they created a new sheep with that same DNA. What they're doing here is they're just extracting... theyre because They're pulling the sex out of reproduction.
00:11:44
Speaker
Whoa. It's basically combining the father's DNA and the mother's DNA over and over again, as if you were just giving Bobby a bunch of brothers and sisters.
00:11:54
Speaker
Okay. Warren. Giving Warren. warren Yes. It's Warren's parents. Professor X is able to probe Magneto's mind from low orbit, discovers he's kidnapped Warren's parents, and mentally contacts Bobby for help.
00:12:08
Speaker
Xavier then re-enters Magneto's mind to see how he escaped the Stranger, hoping for a clue on what he's up to. we get a flashback to Magneto and Toad trapped on a distant planet, alone with the Stranger and his strange collection of artifacts.
00:12:22
Speaker
These artifacts include a collection of otherworldly spaceships. Magneto is able to repair one and return to Earth on that spaceship. leaving toad behind uh xavier lets us know back in the balloon in present day that he is preparing for the most difficult thought projection of his life Bobby arrives at the mansion, manages to slow down Magneto's operation by icing up his machinery, but he isn't quick enough to defeat Magneto himself and gets cornered. Meanwhile, the X-Men are able to use Scott's I-beams to pop a small hole in the balloon and sink it to the earth safely with Gene's telekinetic help.
00:13:01
Speaker
The X-Men arrive just in time to save Bobby and battle Magneto until the professor commands them all to stop. Turns out the professor's strongest ever thought projection was reaching out across the cosmos to the stranger who comes back to Earth and chases Magneto off into the sunset.
00:13:17
Speaker
They destroy Magneto's setup and Warren's parents wake up none the wiser. Why was Professor X's ploy... Like his his his plan to get them down from the gondola didn't involve getting them down from the gondola. It involved scaring Magneto away.
00:13:33
Speaker
It seems like at any point he could have just gotten Scott to pop that little hole in the balloon. And he was just planning on like, what oh, well, what do we do when we get down there with about Magneto? Also, like he could have contacted the Human Torch again. Everybody's like, Torch, we need you again. Come yeah yeah come save us out of the from this gondola. We have a rapport.
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah. You think Jack Kirby on his way out was like, hands off the torch. Also, I think it's funny that like the issue ends not with the stranger kidnapping Magneto again.
00:14:04
Speaker
it looks like it, based on the art that that's what's happening. But Scott says, Magneto's Magna car was nearby. He's gone. So what I guess happened off panel is that Magneto got in something called his Magna car and is fleeing the stranger.
00:14:21
Speaker
And that's why i we don't see him for, dude, we don't don't see Magneto again for 40 issues. Or 30 issues. Sorry. Spoilers.
00:14:31
Speaker
Sorry. I got the number ah also so even that even after correcting myself I got the number wrong too so I won't correct it. Alright perfect now you'll never know. i want to see this Magna car.
00:14:42
Speaker
I do not believe it has been mentioned previously. i think this is the first and it happens off screen. Yeah. its
X-Men Issue 19: Introduction of Mimic
00:14:51
Speaker
we can't We don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole but Magneto can fly. he can levitate himself.
00:14:56
Speaker
Yeah. I guess maybe to outrun the stranger who is like some all powerful being. The Stranger is God, right? Oh! The Stranger is... They're not going to depict heaven and hell and God and Satan in these comics, but all-powerful created mutants and now wants to bring them back to understand them. i think we're just like God watching evolution unfold.
00:15:22
Speaker
It's interesting because I think at the... I don't know when this happened, but at some point, Marvel decided that the Asgardians... were not actual gods. They were aliens who believed themselves gods and had the powers of gods.
00:15:39
Speaker
So I wonder if The Stranger... does the structure Does that somehow fit into your idea about The Stranger? Like, do all gods of every religion are just aliens...
00:15:49
Speaker
Who are watching this planet and being weird about it. That's interesting. Because I know later on in Marvel history, we do establish a god, sort of. And there's definitely a Satan and a hell that people are and There's seven Satans.
00:16:06
Speaker
There's like Mephisto, Dormammu, Satan-ish... belasco nastier beelzebub sim well i guess sim's just a lesser demon anyway there's just so many satans you don't need to get too right now i'm thinking lee verner roth are alive in the 60s we know they were well we know stan lee was living the life i wouldn't be surprised if they're just like okay we're creating god we can't say god let's uh Or I guess it was Jack Kirby at the time, who's more who's even more likely to say this is God, but I'm not going to call him God outright.
00:16:44
Speaker
Jack Kirby was on drugs. Like Jack Kirby was clearly doing hallucinogens. He was what a life. He was in he was into that world. Right. Do we know that for so certain like.
00:16:56
Speaker
Besides the fact that it's obvious, like do, is there accounts of him doing acid and stuff? No, but I will just assume that's true moving forward. We can look into it after this if we want to, but okay forever moving forward.
00:17:10
Speaker
I do want to mention, speaking of stating untruths, I just talk, I talk a lot and it's not always right. So... It is worth correcting myself. The definition, after I looked it up, of a gondola does include an enclosed compartment being transported by balloon or airship.
00:17:33
Speaker
So it's specifically. And the definition of sulfa drug is a liquid or gas, it seems, that you put into a gun and shoot into an ice boy's arm and makes it magically better no matter what's wrong with him.
00:17:48
Speaker
That was a laser. Matt, let me. it's good So.
00:17:53
Speaker
Uh, sulfa. I did little research as well. I'm actually allergic to it. i hope That's, that's, you can't like steal my bank account information with that. It's basically a pre penicillin.
00:18:06
Speaker
yeah Antibiotic. It was invented in the thirties before. i think it seems like it gained popularity around the time that they were just discovering penicillin. Uh, but it's also an alternative if you happen to be allergic to penicillin.
00:18:19
Speaker
It was a miracle drug in World War two There was a point in the 30s where it actually poisoned a bunch of people, giving the ah FDA the authority it has today.
00:18:31
Speaker
led to... creating some standards around drug production. I tried to find relevance. I have no idea why they referenced it twice so far. And then a few times moving forward as like this hip new experimental treatment. The only thing I can think of is that they've managed to get it into a laser gun.
00:18:52
Speaker
but I mean, yeah, it seems unlikely that what Iceman was suffering from was just some sort of bacterial infection, right? He was suffering from internal damage from like an explosion going off, right? No, he was a suffering from, he was burnt by fire.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, he got too hot. He is made of ice. Warm and damp could lead to okay molds, maybe? Right. It could happen. We don't know much like this doctor. We just don't know what his biological makeup is.
00:19:22
Speaker
Isn't it so funny that when Magneto was escaping from the stranger, had a full rocket, had absolutely room and motive To bring Toad along with him.
00:19:36
Speaker
And was just like, I hate this fucking guy. And kicked him off the ladder and left him on an alien planet. I have really, through these first 20 issues, he's had four appearances. Five, maybe. Yeah. bru I've grown to love this guy.
00:19:52
Speaker
He's trying his best. He's getting mixed up with the wrong people because he's just kind of stupid. Yeah. I think he's, don't want to say pure, but I think that he... And I know this doesn't come true for a very long time, but he's capable of bigger things.
00:20:06
Speaker
Right. I mean, i think before he becomes like a sweetheart, he becomes a crazy, like super evil. Right. In the, and I guess, 90s. But I think he I am assuming that my attachment to every character that we've met so far that I've enjoyed is going to is going to disappoint me at some point.
00:20:24
Speaker
I don't know that he appears much in X-Men comics again for like a for a really long time. Yeah. I mean, he's he's still on that planet.
00:20:36
Speaker
He's hanging out with a stranger. Right. And he appears as part of... like he He's just like a background Brotherhood villain, mostly in comics that aren't X-Men. Like when the Brotherhood appear in...
00:20:49
Speaker
other kind of like marvel two-in-one or avengers or something but i do i think i think he's like i might be wrong about this and i guess we'll find out but i think he just isn't a part of the brotherhood of evil mutants for basically the entirety of claremont's run and he's just missing we think of him as a essential part of the brotherhood of evil mutants i don't know how he got to get that way in our imaginations because he's just not It's the movies. It's just seeing him in the movies. He's played by Ray Park.
00:21:19
Speaker
It was a big media push be like, we got Ray Park. So last time we saw Magneto, if you remember, we were told that we would never see him again, that he was whisked off by the stranger yeah to a planet that would it would be impossible to escape from.
00:21:34
Speaker
This time... As he zips off with the stranger chasing him in his Magna car, Bobby just says, i wonder if we'll ever know what happens to them. Very smooth correction of the mistake you found yourself paying for to make sure that you're not cutting Magneto out forever.
00:21:53
Speaker
You know, we learned something interesting about Professor X in this issue that isn't, I don't think, true and never comes back again. Is that what ah Magneto overlooks that makes Professor X able to break free from the like the you know mental wave disorder that Magneto put on his head and yeah is his incredibly strong counter-ego.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yes. What? My ability to read minds and project my thoughts is due to the counter ego, which I possess. Possess. is Now, is this just another word for psychic?
00:22:32
Speaker
Like, they're I know they're still kind of fleshing out the terms at this if this stage. Right, like that, like, I think, I don't know if we mentioned it, but in one in one of the issues, they used telekinesis and teleport as if teleport was the verb and telekinesis was the name of the power.
00:22:50
Speaker
So like they are slowly starting to make make definitions for these things that they've just been saying fucking willy nilly. Well, let's give this the same treatment we gave that counter ego could possibly mean what?
00:23:05
Speaker
What is the counter to the ego? And it's not id. We know that's not what being his power. If it's not id, then ah then who is defining? Now it's like, then who is defining ego?
00:23:17
Speaker
if the opposite isn't id, how do you define ego? And so then how do you define the opposite of ego? So, okay. If your id is your primitive instincts, right? And your super ego is your conscience.
00:23:30
Speaker
Ego is the thing that... Everything in between. know Everything in the between. The thing that that helps you decide between those two concepts, right? Right. So your counter-ego is trying to stop you from deciding from... There we go. Okay. there So your counter-ego is empowering your id and super-ego to take over your brain.
00:23:58
Speaker
So Professor X's...
00:24:03
Speaker
So he's operating on pure primal emotion and conscience. So it's religious fear and his deep, deep sex drive that are causing him to be able to communicate with people's brains.
00:24:19
Speaker
Well, how do any of us communicate?
00:24:23
Speaker
Okay. Issue 19. Lo, now shall appear The Mimic. Story by Stan Lee, pencils by Jay Gavin, inking Dick Ayers, lettering Artie Symec.
00:24:35
Speaker
And yeah this was released in February of 1966. six We open on an X-Men training sequence. We have everybody doing their kind of normal thing. Jean Grey is just floating in the air reading an issue of Monsters Unlimited.
00:24:53
Speaker
Until Bobby and Warren start bickering with each other and throwing shit at each other. Beast starts showing off all the normal shit. And then Professor X appears, turns off everything and says, hey, you guys have earned a vacation.
00:25:07
Speaker
Everybody's stoked as hell except for Cyclops. He is upset because he's not going to be vacationing with Gene again. and Warren is taking her out even though they invite him um Beast and Iceman head to meet Iceman's somewhat girlfriend Zelda ah at the library and Beast gets into just like immediately gets into an argument with the librarian who turns out to be his blind date Vera and so it's an awkward rom-com start to the date and then as they walk out it turns out Vera's
00:25:44
Speaker
ex-boyfriend or something, some guy who wants to date Vera. Yeah, and specifically somebody that has asked her out and she said And he's just walking around full of rage about it. His name is Calvin Rankin and he shows up and just gets angry that she's on a date and starts trying to fight Hank.
00:26:02
Speaker
Surprising everybody. He starts leaping around in the air just like the Beast. And even though this is happening, Beast is like, well, I can't reveal my power. So he lets himself get beaten up and then ah Calvin throws an ice ball at Iceman.
00:26:18
Speaker
That makes some nearby construction workers think, oh, shit, this guy's a mutant. We hate those dudes and charges him. And Calvin runs up a building and runs off into the night.
00:26:33
Speaker
So at that point, he has a bit of sort of an emotional breakdown and starts hitting the floor as he tells us that his powers fade every time that he's not near the person he's mimicking.
00:26:45
Speaker
Apparently, this is a guy who can mimic other people's powers. And he's going to use this to track down the X-Men. Coincidentally, at that moment, he bumps into Jean Grey, copies her telekinesis power, and thinks...
00:27:03
Speaker
Okay, all have to do is follow this woman and she'll lead me back to all the rest of the X-Men and I can take all their powers. So we cut to the next day. i guess he follows her for an entire day.
00:27:17
Speaker
Because all the X-Men are back in the X-Mansion Calvin Rankin shows up at the door. He tells them that he wants to join the X-Men.
00:27:28
Speaker
ah But secretly, he just wants to be close to them to absorb their powers. We we don't really know why, but that's what he wants to do. ah They, in turn, don't trust him, but they're going to...
00:27:40
Speaker
pretend as if they do to gauge the extent of his powers. Got to keep up the ruse. So he goes upstairs, ah changes into his weird mimic outfit, and he comes downstairs and he's like, all right, I got all your powers, you idiots. I'm going to fight you. And they all fight.
00:27:59
Speaker
ah He begins to lose when he grabs Gene and takes off. Professor X warns Cyclops not to stop him.
00:28:10
Speaker
because they can follow him and find out something yeah unclear. So the ah mimic brings Jean to a deserted mine and tells her ah his origin story, which was when he was a kid.
00:28:26
Speaker
His dad was a scientist and was working on dangerous experiments While his dad was outside of the lab, Calvin went in and fucked with his beakers.
00:28:37
Speaker
They exploded and he gained secret powers. He learned that if he was near anybody, he could do what they did. So if he's near a ah boxer, he could box. If he was near a baseball player, he could play baseball really well.
00:28:51
Speaker
He eventually reveals this to his dad, who tells him that he's going to continue doing experiments to to help Cal's ah powers become permanent.
00:29:02
Speaker
So they're in this mine working a away when a mob of people who have noticed Cal's powers charge the lab and his dad sets off some explosives to keep them out of the lab, which blows up all the chemicals, killing his dad and burying all the experiments under some rubble. So what the mimic wants to do is gain all the X-Men's power so he can get back to this lab and give himself these powers permanently so they don't fade.
00:29:30
Speaker
So the X-Men arrive and Calvin does just that. He gets to the secret lab. The X-Men chase him, fight him. ah he grabs Professor X, which apparently is go-to move when he's losing a fight, he kidnaps somebody and runs to his dad's machine.
00:29:48
Speaker
And Professor X says, like, everybody stay back. Calvin hits the button to transform him into like a permanent power house, but instead has the opposite effect. And he collapses to the floor.
00:30:01
Speaker
Professor X says that he knew because of his mental powers that this is what would happen, that his dad secretly was trying to take his powers away. He didn't want his son to be superpowered anymore.
00:30:13
Speaker
So, as the X-Men do, they wipe his memory and let him go. The end. Oh, boy That ending is such a letdown.
00:30:24
Speaker
i think this is a really ah tight, fun, and creative issue all the way through until suddenly the machine that's supposed to give him the powers to defeat the X-Men actually takes away his powers.
00:30:39
Speaker
Come on, i don't want to be i don't know. I don't want to be that guy. But how is mimic able to handle I-beams? This is Scott's greatest torture.
00:30:51
Speaker
Calvin absorbs them and he's just he's wearing regular sunglasses. Well, there's a lot about Scott's power that has not been revealed yet. I don't know. Maybe we should talk about it.
00:31:03
Speaker
I'll sit my ass down and listen. Well, maybe we should talk about it here. First of all, it hasn't been established that it's Ruby Quartz that contains... Cyclops' eye beams, right? It has been established that he has special lenses in his sunglasses and in his visor.
00:31:20
Speaker
They just haven't said what this what the material is yet, is is what you're saying. Okay. i I thought it was just that Scott wore sunglasses. Like, I thought they didn't really have an explanation yet.
00:31:32
Speaker
But the other thing is that Cyclops has, I don't know if you knew this, Cyclops has brain damage. That's the only reason he can't control his eye beams. Oh, that I didn't know. I know we've made some vague references to it, but I just kind of nodded along like I knew what you were talking I mean we'll get to it probably eventually. But yeah, Cyclops should be able to control his I-beams.
00:31:54
Speaker
Like, that that would have been his natural power. But he can't because of a head injury. So interesting. um You say this is a creative issue. i think that's an interesting point.
00:32:08
Speaker
Because at this point, it seems like this is just what every super team has to deal with. Is one being that can copy all their powers. And can, working as a team, overcome the simple existence of their powers? So, in 1960, the Justice League of America met Amazo, who could copy all the Justice League's powers.
00:32:30
Speaker
Thank you for clarifying. In 1963, the Fantastic Four met the Super Skrull, who could copy all the Fantastic Four's powers. In 1964, the Legion of Superheroes met Duplicate Boy, who could copy all the Legion's powers.
00:32:45
Speaker
And... In just four months from this issue, the Avengers will meet the super adaptoid who can copy all the Avengers.
X-Men Issue 20: Character Motivations and Comic Art
00:32:53
Speaker
So this will continue forever, right? like There will eventually be ah Gideon and Rogue and Sink and Black Alice and whatnot. but Okay.
00:33:03
Speaker
Maybe it's an unoriginal villain. I love his look. He came prepared to the X mansion. I absolutely love that. He asks for the toilet, walks in there just to change into this costume that he got ready in order to fight the X-Men.
00:33:23
Speaker
Like it's adapted for the wings. It's adapted for the I beans. Yeah. I think orange and red is a good, that's a good color palette for a superhero costume. Yeah, it's a good color palette for a supervillain costume.
00:33:36
Speaker
Yeah. Did you know, so Marvel Girl, I mentioned this briefly, and i don't know how interesting this is, but Marvel Girl's reading a book called mar Monsters Unlimited. Yes, I did see that.
00:33:48
Speaker
And I looked it up. It is a Marvel title around that time. It's a title that was published elsewhere that Marvel had recently purchased and was either reprinting or printing new issues of. I couldn't quite figure that out. But this was like, I think, the Wolfman issue.
00:34:07
Speaker
You can buy it online for 50 bucks. i Monsters Unlimited 6. There are two moments in this issue that i live for. Number one, Hank and Bobby and their dating foibles. This is the reason that I read X-Men. i want to see yeah Hank try to be smart and smarmy and accidentally get into a fight with, it seems like a woman he's going to be seeing for a little while. She already pops up again couple issues later.
00:34:34
Speaker
And why? We'll talk about it when we get there, but why? Why does she go out with him again? Well, I mean, who else is going to go out with... that guy the other moment is after they all struggle with mimic i think it's the first time they fight him in the mansion scott says stay back all of you i'll tackle him alone you you were all just beat up and so your plan is to run at him and tackle him he's just always ready to punch something i'm very excited that he's done this again
00:35:07
Speaker
I do want to talk more about this ah sitcom situation that Bobby and Hank get into because it is Hank is they're in a library and Hank supposedly the smartest dude starts pondering over some books.
00:35:21
Speaker
and Vera, ah who the woman who turns out to be Vera says, if you haven't noticed, these books are for preschool age children. what a Good burn.
00:35:34
Speaker
And then they start arguing, and then it turns out, oh, this is this is his date. yeah i mean he's looking at preschool books, and his... Yeah, why is he doing that? His retort is, books are for everyone, which is...
00:35:51
Speaker
Which is not good. He gets his ass handed to him in this argument. I also think it's interesting. We're seeing more and more um people hate mutants, right? Like that is a growing trend in the book. Yeah. these These construction workers Mimic before he's move just as Calvin, but using powers and say,
00:36:12
Speaker
Oh my God, there's a mutant and he's beating up on these teenagers, the teenagers who are actually two of the X-Men. And so they go after him and he's not a mutant. That is very specifically brought up here. This is not a mutant.
00:36:26
Speaker
That's true, which I think is retconned. But at this point, yeah, Mimic is not a mutant. He gets doused by chemicals. And that's where he gets his... You know, it's interesting that they're still doing this, though. And they'll do this a couple times in ah the near future.
00:36:44
Speaker
Stan Lee came up with mutants so that he wouldn't have to make weird origin stories for his heroes and villains anymore. And somehow... He just keeps doing it.
00:36:56
Speaker
And they're the same origin stories as every other hero and villain. Oh, some chemicals got knocked on to me. Oh, somebody at the science academy was mean to me, so I made an evil robot suit. Like, everybody, it's the same origins over and over.
00:37:10
Speaker
You made mutants specifically for this purpose. It seems like they're overcorrecting from having only mutant villains in so many issues. But they're not quite comfortable yet with throwing other villains at the X-Men.
00:37:27
Speaker
Like, just other in-universe villains. i knowt I'm i'm ah having trouble understanding anybody's motivations. The dad's supposed to be a super smart scientist. When a mob is coming to attack them, he blows up his own cave and kills himself.
00:37:45
Speaker
So how could he not see that coming? I hate to bicker with you here, Matt, but they do specifically mention that he underestimated the power of the explosives he was using.
00:37:56
Speaker
Okay, next motive question. Yeah, sure. Why did Professor X want to follow Mimic back to his base? Right? Cyclops says, one blast of my ray.
00:38:08
Speaker
and And Professor x is like, no, don't do that. And then later says, I had to let him escape so he could lead us to his destination. Why? ah is it is it that... Okay, Professor X, when he gets there, probes the machine and goes, okay, this machine is not... Again, because his powers don't make any sense.
00:38:31
Speaker
ah This machine is not going to... it increase calvin's powers it's gonna take away calvin's powers he couldn't have known that back at the x mansion right unless unless he's reading calvin's thoughts and through that reading his through that memory reading his father's thoughts
00:38:58
Speaker
It's an inception situation. Yeah, yeah. It's not unrealistic that they would have that power for an issue for Professor Harris. Right. Or there's a hidden motive that they're not discussing here.
00:39:09
Speaker
And maybe it'll be in one of those gritty reboots of old comic book issues is that Professor X actually allowed Gene to be kidnapped because he wanted to use the power intensifier on himself.
00:39:24
Speaker
o Then he gets there and finds out, ah, fuck, it isn't. So let's just shut this guy and go home. We do know that he's always scheming. Last motive question.
00:39:34
Speaker
Hit me. Was there no other better solution to getting through a pile of rubble than to trick all the X-Men to come to your secret lair so you could absorb their powers and use their specific powers to get there? What did wings do?
00:39:53
Speaker
Or ice? What did those things do to help him get to where he needed to go? Yeah, he really just needed the lasers, right? Yeah, really only uses Cyclops as eye beams. could have just kidnapped Cyclops.
00:40:05
Speaker
ah Anyway. Yeah. Okay, you're right. Calvin All these are stupid. This was a stupid issue, and I was wrong to say otherwise. these are so stupid. This is the stupidest issue of X-Men anyone's ever read.
00:40:18
Speaker
We do return... That was actually kind of fun. All right. but Wait, sorry. Before we hop off to the next issue, Matt, the next issue, I'm told from the end of issue 19 here, has Unus, the Blob, and Lucifer?
00:40:32
Speaker
That is all true. Okay. Okay. First of all, Unus has promised to never again try to be an evil mutant. Yeah, that so seems unlikely.
00:40:42
Speaker
The Blob walked off saying that he was done with all this mutant X-Men business. Yeah, you're right. So it seems unlikely. Lucifer walked away unharmed, but with his ego extremely damaged.
00:40:56
Speaker
You're right, so it seems unlikely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so probably something else is going to happen next issue. Why don't you tell us what else? Well, let me tell you about issue 20. I, Lucifer. This doesn't it' already doesn't seem to bode well for your prediction.
00:41:11
Speaker
Expertly edited by Stan Lee, skillfully scripted by Roy Thomas, pointed out here as another mighty Marvel bullpen surprise. Yeah. The first Roy Thomas issue. yeah Yeah. He's going to write the X-Men now for like 24 issues. It's insane that and I know there are some theories that fly around about this, but that Kirby and Lee left two issues apart like they're.
00:41:36
Speaker
Kirby left and then Stan Lee was like nah I'm sticking around and he wrote two more issues
00:41:43
Speaker
yeah I do think that's interesting I also think it's interesting that he has Roy Thomas take over for him which he did he's done on so many different titles he did it on Spider-Man even though Roy Thomas is only there for like a couple issues he did it on the Avengers i I'm sure he did it on others they're not popping into my head right now but ah Roy Thomas seems to be like He's like, if I can't write it, this guy's got it.
00:42:11
Speaker
yeah Give it to Roy. Anyway, this was also perfectly penciled by Jay Gavin, also known as Werner Roth. Ideally inked by Dick Ayers, laxly lettered by Artie Simek.
00:42:22
Speaker
Release date March 3rd, 1966. Cover May 1966. Okay. yeah This is ah very exciting opening. We open on a full page panel of two large men in X-Men costumes, smoking cigs and robbing a bank.
00:42:37
Speaker
The crowd recognizes their uniforms, but doesn't recognize the men inside them. The cops try to stop them by shooting them, ah but have no luck. One can't be moved and the other seems to be covered in an invisible force field.
00:42:51
Speaker
They walk off with one very large bag of cash. You can tell it's a bag of cash because has a big dollar sign on the front of it. And then back at the mansion, Scott has actually decided he's leaving the X-Men, leaving only a note behind that explains that he can't let his eyes be a threat any longer, and he needs to find a doctor to fix him.
00:43:11
Speaker
The remaining X-Men are in the, what would you call this, the study, the library, the lounge, the ah Let's name this room. They're in it a lot. okay ah Okay. I like the idea of the study. the Because it's got it's got the TV and it's got all their books. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:31
Speaker
was thinking the same thing. And it's where Iceman eats his ice cream. He hasn't eaten ice cream in a while, which is pissing me off. I know. We kind of... We staked our reputations on that ice cream. Yes, we hooked our sails to the Iceman loving ice cream.
00:43:47
Speaker
And the remaining X-Men are hanging out in the lounge, the study. Sorry. They hear a news report of the X-Men robbing a bank and spring into action because they know that can't be right.
00:43:58
Speaker
Professor X senses there is someone larger behind this, but can't get past a mental screen that's been set up by their mysterious ringleader. We cut to an immediate reveal. It's Lucifer. He's been watching the situation and has been planting mental urges in Unis and Blob to have them meet by challenging each other to a wrestling match, discover each other's powers, chat about it, and...
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah. eventually create a plan to take down the x expense <unk>ops having left the team just stumbles upon the bank robbery sees that they're wearing x-men uniforms puts on his own costume and tries to take out blob and una but those two refuse to drop the pretense that their x-men convincing the crowd that scott's every move is actually working in their favor So the mob turns on Cyclops. We get a really fun panel where he is running away.
00:44:49
Speaker
The rest of the X-Men arrive. They immediately establish that the Unus Ray no longer works thanks to Lucifer. Lucifer reveals that that was another urge he placed in Unus' mind.
00:45:00
Speaker
It just is completely ah ineffective. They start to fight, but the crowd turns on the rest of the X-Men as well, including the police. The police are also wielding guns and once again...
00:45:12
Speaker
firing him off into the air. Cyclops comes back just in the nick of the time, though, to keep the rest of the X-Men from being overpowered. Unus and Blob make a quick exit. We cut back to Lucifer's lab, where he unveils his weapon that can attack the Professor through his mental beams, incapacitating him. He rides the mental wave.
00:45:32
Speaker
He can only send faint mental thoughts that can be picked up by Jean when she puts on a funky device. He uses this time to tell the story of how he lost the use of his legs.
00:45:46
Speaker
In his younger days, he stumbled across a city in Tibet that was under the mental control of Lucifer and all of his citizens serving as his slaves. Professor X leads a band of freedom fighters to overthrow Lucifer's dictatorship, but his legs are crushed from a falling debris trap in the process.
00:46:03
Speaker
Lucifer escapes, reports back to his boss, who we learn is the Supreme One. i don't think that's an established character before this time. I'm pretty sure it's original. I think this is, yeah, first first appearance of the Supreme One. ah The professor also learns that Lucifer is no man, but an otherworldly creature.
00:46:21
Speaker
Mm-hmm. We come back to the present. The X-Men returned back to the mansion to find Gene serving as an interpreter for the professor with instructions for Hank on how to build a beam distorter that will allow the professor full use of his brain again.
00:46:36
Speaker
This does return the professor to full strength and they head out in their new jet to take on Lucifer yeah to be continued. Whoa.
00:46:46
Speaker
Can I just say before we get too into it, the cover itself here, which I believe is also Werner Roth, is really intriguing. It's two layers. The page is kind of split into the top two thirds and the bottom third.
00:47:00
Speaker
And the front page is two men wearing X-Men uniforms, clearly robbing a bank. Yeah. If you know your history or if you just read the in the next issue from the last issue, you know that this is unison blob.
00:47:16
Speaker
really exciting. And then a really great three page opening sequence. It is just as intriguing where you get a full splash page. Like i said, of them robbing the bank, we come right in on the action.
00:47:29
Speaker
And then you have no idea why these men who are established as blob and Unus are robbing a bank in X-Men uniforms. Like you have to get four pages deep until it all comes together, but it's so engaging all the way, all the way there.
00:47:46
Speaker
The art in this issue is just fantastic. There's just like a panel on the second page where police it's just a cop firing a gun, right? yeah He's holding the gun in front of his face, like half obscuring his face and his face is really ah expressive. And like, that's just such an interesting, I know it seems like a small thing, but just the idea that Werner Roth was like, and he'll be obscuring people Two thirds of his face when he's holding is such an interesting choice.
00:48:18
Speaker
And it reminds me, it it looks like I'm looking at ah like ah a panel from stray bullets, like a David Lapham panel. And then throughout the rest of the issue,
00:48:29
Speaker
the The fact that everybody's just constantly expressing something or in motion and these like these really clear lines, the whole thing just looks appealing at every moment.
00:48:41
Speaker
And it reminds me of one of my favorite artists of but all time, a more contemporary dude, which is Mike Allred. You can see where he got his storytelling like ideas from.
00:48:53
Speaker
Some of these panels, if you... it erased the 7,000 dialogue balloons. I could have totally imagined they were in contemporary comic books.
00:49:03
Speaker
This is, and I think you said it last episode too, that the action just gets so much more visceral. So instead of just one X-Man throwing a punch and then sort of smattering of characters dancing around, it's like panel by panel action. It's really...
00:49:21
Speaker
detailed. And yeah, I was going to mention this too. There's maybe it's in the last issue, but there's a frame of Bobby's face that is just also so expressive. He's in his ice form. He is pained seeing that Warren's parents have been kidnapped and Magneto's taken over the mansion.
00:49:40
Speaker
Like Verna Roth is really getting into it. And I'm yeah thrilled. He's crushing it. ah um There's another interesting panel, which will also lead me into what i I think is such a funny call to action, which is Professor X can't remember what villain could be behind this.
00:50:04
Speaker
They see that some like the blob and Unis are now I'm saying that like you blob and Unis are are pretending to be X-Men and he's like this can't be them somebody else has to be behind it but I can't think of who it might be and there's a panel where like all the X-Men's villains appear in these block letters in spiky little word bubbles above his head but Yeah, so it's like Vanisher, Juggernaut, Magneto, Sentinels, Mastermind, Submariner.
00:50:37
Speaker
um And he's, you know, in the center of the panel concentrating. What? Why? the call to action here is I can't remember another guy. yeah There must be another guy, and I can't remember him. he has to use a memory enhancer.
00:50:52
Speaker
He just forgot a dude is all. You don't need to be so dramatic, Professor X. Like, oh. X-Men, I have forgotten where I put my car keys. This must be the work of some nefarious villain. I must use my car key remembrance, location remembrance ray that I just invented on my powerful mutant brain. No, you just forgot where your car keys were, dude. It's okay. Sometimes we forget things.
00:51:18
Speaker
I hate to keep going back to last issue, but... There is a moment at the beginning of the mimic issue where Professor X says he's not registering on Cerebro, so there's no way he's a mutant.
00:51:30
Speaker
And that turns out to be true. He he wasn't a mutant. But the very issue before, there is a panel where Magneto makes a point of smashing Cerebro to bits. ah Right. This issue, Cerebro is being repaired so they can figure out what's going on. Like they take the time to repair Cerebro.
00:51:50
Speaker
ah It's the same deal of him. He tested out a very, a brand new piece of technology and said, oh I'm getting i major alarm.
X-Men Issue 21: Dominus Plot and Cowboy Encounters
00:51:59
Speaker
This must be the most powerful mutant we've ever met.
00:52:02
Speaker
Or it's not setting up, setting off Cerebro because Cerebro is broken, but I'm still going to draw these conclusions. He's sort of an arrogant jerk, right? And I'm not the first person to call him that.
00:52:17
Speaker
Whoa. But he's kind of earned it at this point, right? After this issue, he walked into a small nation being held hostage, rallied their freedom fighters to overtake it, being held psychically hostage. Right?
00:52:31
Speaker
he He rallied them to break the psychic hold on themselves, overtake the palace, run Lucifer out of this town. And then even then he made sure all the freedom freedom fighters were free. And then he said, um'm going to go back and confront this guy.
00:52:46
Speaker
And he ends up losing there, but he had his chance to escape and he decided to go back and and try to take care of things like he's this guy's done some shit he's yeah he's not just some rich born rich silver spoon asshole commanding a bunch of teens around he's he's got credentials they'll do some stuff with that later and i always love that is like when we get these flashbacks to professor x's like adventurer days he's just like a bald kind of boring indiana jones yeah who has who has psychic powers um hey pat
00:53:24
Speaker
I'm wondering why in your recap, you didn't mention that Lucifer's energy cannon is just a big, giant metal dick.
00:53:38
Speaker
Oh, is that what you see when you look at it? There's no way to see anything else. there it isnt It would be impossible to look at this and not think, oh, dick. No, no, no. it's It telescopes out of a silo. And yeah, for a moment, we are looking at a very clear penis. Yeah, it's it was the definitely not accidental, right? like Yeah.
00:54:03
Speaker
It might have been accidental, like in the Freudian sense. No, because you know what the Marvel bullpen was like. We've heard stories of what the Marvel bullpen was like. they If this was accidentally drawn...
00:54:16
Speaker
they were going to pass it around and be like, hey, look at the dick that Werner Roth drew. it's ah It's even... been It's got the little slit at the top. you know and and And it's shooting out a... Another art... A weird art thing is... We just got rid of Magneto. And this guy's just Magneto. Why is he wearing Magnetos? He had his own costume.
00:54:37
Speaker
Is it that the colorist got confused and just colored him like Magneto? or Was this intentional? Like, ah, yeah, purple and red worked so well. ah Let's just keep doing that.
00:54:50
Speaker
And like go i like a weird i mean ah cape and helmet combo. it is It's essentially, ah imagine Magneto's outfit from the neck down.
00:55:01
Speaker
And then he's got sort of the same funky helmet. It's redesigned to i just only expose his mouth and his beard. And they colored it purple.
00:55:11
Speaker
Yeah. Well, is it his beard or is it chin wrinkles like the Skrulls? Because the Supreme one also has the same sort of like ridges on his chin. and i i don't know if it's just like, oh, they styled their beards the same because they're such good pals. I think it's art i think it's a beard. It's part of their strange alien makeup.
00:55:36
Speaker
Right. Every year alien has a beard. But I bet a lot of people at this time thought the Skrulls just had beards. Yeah, I wonder if, like, when you look at Thanos, was Thanos' strange chin originally just supposed to be a beard?
00:55:49
Speaker
He has a goatee. Yeah, and I mean, could have been the same for the Skrulls. Like, oh, these are just a weird, a green bearded race.
00:55:58
Speaker
So the way you Unus and Blob meet that the traveling circus that Unus now belongs to oh yeah comes too close to the traveling carnival that Blob has always belonged to.
00:56:13
Speaker
Unis' setup at the circus is sort of like some sideshow thing where he's offering to wrestle anyone. And Blob says, I'm sure this guy hasn't heard of me, gets there. They wrestle. yeah The Blob tries to take down Unis and just sort of stops at his force field. Doesn't bounce back like most people would, but stops. So Unis...
00:56:32
Speaker
tries to jump on blob and sort of maneuver him to the ground. Like he usually can and recognizes that he can't be moved. And they're both like, Oh, we must be mutants.
00:56:43
Speaker
Let's have a chat. So this is 15 seconds into that fight. They have each tried exactly one move and then said, let's get this. Let's step out of here. I'm, I'm, let's call it a draw.
00:56:57
Speaker
Unis' play at trying to take down the Blob is he just kind of like jumps on his back and wraps his arms around his neck like a back like he's a backpack. Like he's Blob's human backpack.
00:57:09
Speaker
It's not working.
00:57:15
Speaker
um Hey, what the hell are Lucifer's powers? Oh, he they actually explain this, Matt. It's powers that the world can scarcely imagine. He's very smart. He seems to have some sort of s s answerther psychic ability.
00:57:30
Speaker
Or maybe it's like a machine ability that he he can manipulate machines to be psychic. I think that's what it is. He can manipulate machines to be psychic, which is pretty cool. can Pretty scary. can manipulate machines to be psychic.
00:57:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's the that is the most clarifying answer we get here. Okay, and he's not a mutant, he's an alien, so I guess, you know, he could have any sort of weird power.
00:57:55
Speaker
It is terrifying, though. Like, Lucifer... has the city in a mental hold where they are not forming new memories they have no concept of time they only control certain parts of their own thoughts like yeah the the guy that professor x tries to shake down to get information is like i'm i can't say anymore like they know they're being constantly watched that's existentially what a nightmare
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's I guess I i hadn't yeah fully and absorbed that. To me, it was just like, oh, yeah, like a villain takes over a nation, whatever. But you're right. That is ah really intense.
00:58:38
Speaker
That's a really intense way to that guy take specifies that he doesn't remember much about what happened since Lucifer took over and that he has no idea how much time has passed. It could have been a day. could have been a month.
00:58:51
Speaker
There's also so this was driving me nuts. How do I explain this? Have you seen Matt? Have you seen hot tub time machine? No, I've not seen hot tub time machine. I'm so sorry. You don't have to. Nobody has to. I'm not endorsing that movie at all, but there is one very good bit where, so if you don't know, they travel back in time and hot tub time machine via hot tub.
00:59:16
Speaker
Before they do that. Unlikely. hey yeah but You got to see the movie if you want to figure out how that works. Wait, you're telling. Hold on. Sorry. i know I want to let you continue, but you're telling me they travel through time in a hot tub?
00:59:31
Speaker
Yes. i I don't believe it. You don't believe that they made a movie about that or you don't believe that the technology exists? I don't believe that the technology exists. And if the technology doesn't exist, why make a movie about it? Okay. Well, again, Matt, if you want to know how the technology works, see the movie.
00:59:49
Speaker
I'm just going to look it up on Google Scholar. There is one very good bit in that movie where Crispin Glover in the present day is missing an arm. Okay. They go back in time to the 80s, I think 25, 30 years earlier than when this movie came out.
01:00:06
Speaker
Yeah. And he has both arms. And then every time he's on screen, something happens where you're like, oh, this is how he loses his arm. The characters start recognize this as well, but it keeps not happening. It keeps surviving until the very end. i won't spoil it, but he loses. or I guess I will spoil it. He loses his arm.
01:00:25
Speaker
I think that's just such a funny bit. I think comedy bang bang does it as well, where they have this TV show has like an RIP to a crew member. And then that crew member is actually featured in the episode.
01:00:35
Speaker
But this is what they're doing with Professor X. That old dude. And he's like screwing in a light bulb at the top of a rickety ladder. Right. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. ah Professor X has his legs.
01:00:48
Speaker
He ah comes across a traitor to his cause who has a knife and. Cuts a chandelier that comes flying down on top of him. His legs are fine. He's safe.
01:01:00
Speaker
The walls cave in on them during their escape. He's fine. His legs survive. There is a wall of fire barreling towards him to get out of the way. He jumps into a raging underground river.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah. Leaves unscuffed. His legs are absolutely fine. And it's not until the very end when he's standing face to face with the villain. And then a rock just falls from the ceiling and crushes his legs.
01:01:28
Speaker
and you All right. Are you ready for me to tell you about issue 20 yet? No one yet or no? ah You know what? Yeah, go ahead. you've You've earned it.
01:01:39
Speaker
Thank you. Issue 21 is called from whence comes. Dominus! Edited by Stan Lee, written by Roy Thomas, art by Jay Gavin, inking by Dick Ayers, and lettering by Artie Simak. It was released ah in April of 1966.
01:01:57
Speaker
six We open with a splash page of the X-Men arriving to ah the the, quote, Southwest desert, where they said that they were headed last issue, and something is up with their plane.
01:02:15
Speaker
They get caught in some sort of force field, and in front of them, they see a giant shaft appear that descends into a butt,
01:02:29
Speaker
in the desert at incredible speed and then as they get closer the butt releases noxious gases uh because of the shaft it's a shaft of light there's some like weird forms flying into uh uh is it pronounced butt pat yes be i it might be beaut yeah i don't know actually the pronunciation on this podcast we say but we say but we cut to a distance away where pat my favorite villain my favorite guy porter mac the cowboy and his band of cowboy bros notice this light streaming down into the butt and they take to their horses to go check it out got a very strong opinion of themselves
01:03:16
Speaker
So they realize this butt is clearly Lucifer's lair, and they manage to find a hidden entrance into the lair, and the five X-Men leave Professor X on top of the butt to enter the lair. The cowboys see the X-Men coming down the butt.
01:03:38
Speaker
Okay. I don't know. I don't know if we should keep saying, but like, it's just going to be so distracting. They see the X-Men coming down the butt and they go, oh, those guys are wanted in New new York City.
01:03:51
Speaker
And so they attack them and start shooting them with guns. The X-Men handily deal with these like five cowboys. They knock their horses into the water.
01:04:02
Speaker
They, uh, pick one up and then encase them in a block of ice. They pull their hats down over their eyes. It's a very fun little action sequence. And then they make themselves a little ice raft and they sail down a river into...
01:04:17
Speaker
the lair of lucifer uh everybody's favorite adventuring device appears a whirlpool which sucks the x-men in depositing them into a another glass cage meanwhile professor x who's so busy monitoring the x-men doesn't realize that two robots are sneaking up behind him they put a metal band over him and take him into lucifer's lair lucifer reveals to us that he is from an alien race that has been taking over many different planets and earth is just the most recent of them and the dominus machine a big machine run by these robots has helped him take over and enslave all these other
01:05:04
Speaker
planet it The X-Men escape their glass prison with Gene's telekinesis, able to reach just a release switch.
01:05:15
Speaker
but they And they bust out. They start beating up robots and make their way to the control center where Professor X and Dominus are ah As they enter, Professor X tells them not to destroy Dominus, but the X-Men debate amongst themselves whether that's really Professor X or like a fake psychic message.
01:05:38
Speaker
Why they didn't think that about Mimic, I have no idea. Like when Professor X mentally told them don't chase the Mimic, they knew Mimic had Professor X's powers. They're learning, Matt. Okay, yeah, you're right. Maybe they had an off-panel meeting about it.
X-Men Issue 22: Villain Team-ups and Comic Continuity
01:05:54
Speaker
I love their hovercraft. They have a little hovercraft that pops out of the jet and it's bright red and they all fit on it and it hovers them down to the ground so they don't have to land the jet.
01:06:06
Speaker
And Warren makes a comment about how cool it is. Hank and Bobby have a little conversation with them amongst themselves about how materialistic Warren is. Also, Warren, you can fly, dude.
01:06:18
Speaker
You were the last person that should think this hovercraft is something novel. So the X-Men are in the control center and they start fighting and evading robots.
01:06:29
Speaker
Angel and Beast now convince themselves that the mental message was fake, but Scott knows it was true and stops them from destroying Dominus. The Supreme One at this moment video calls in, Skypes in.
01:06:42
Speaker
To yell at his minion Lucifer and tell him that, ah you know, with the robots gone, there's no way they can conquer Earth. So he uses a big vacuum and sucks Dominus and Lucifer up into it. Into a universe where neither time nor space exist.
01:07:02
Speaker
I don't know how that would possibly be. But anyway, yeah. Then they escape. The X-Men escape on their cute little hovercraft. That's right. Yeah, I love these fucking cowboys, man.
01:07:13
Speaker
There's just just some cowboys, some goofballs. I think initially they're very brave, right? A ah beam of light is coming out of the sky and going directly.
01:07:24
Speaker
A shaft of light is coming out of the sky directly into this butt. And they say, yeah we got to check that out. Not, what the fuck is that?
01:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, get the hell out of here. Classic cowboys coming across aliens. I think this is how it would play out in real life. Yeah, well you think, hold on, let's back up. Okay, so you think...
01:07:46
Speaker
If in real life, cowboys came across aliens, they would chase the aliens on horses, and then it would turn out to be actually a bunch of mutants. If they're real cowboys, yeah.
01:07:56
Speaker
Okay, all right, all right. Did you notice that Bobby has visible ice shorts now? He's growing up. Yeah, he's no longer a an ice Ken doll. There's a time in every boy's life when they're no longer allowed, that you no longer can run around naked. You gotta grow up, you gotta to put on your ice pants.
01:08:13
Speaker
Most people get there before 16.
01:08:17
Speaker
Let's not be judgmental. So the X-Men all get caught in a whirlpool and start drowning. Warren is able to escape because of his wings and then says, I've got to turn around and go back in there and get them. He says, no matter what danger lurks beneath.
01:08:33
Speaker
What if that danger is just drowning? What if they're all...
01:08:38
Speaker
Which is what happens most commonly with a whirlpool. Yeah, you just get sucked in, you get pulled by the undertow, you drown. And he's diving back into it. The one thing, his what the one weakness of a man with wings is they don't do anything underwater at all. Not even like a little bit. They have no function underwater.
01:08:59
Speaker
And the one weakness of being that rich is you don't have to think about stuff very often. I guess so. It works out for him. He does another really stupid thing. and They get the ah mental message from Professor X saying, under no circumstances should you try to harm Dominus.
01:09:17
Speaker
And Angel says, oh hey, guys, I found the heart. You want to go smash it? Scott has to say, you no, didn't you just hear the professor? It does sort of fit with Angel's character, right? He is a little happy-go-lucky. He is a little...
01:09:32
Speaker
brazen at this point you know he he has an ego and isn't great at listening to others but you'd think if they were trying to make that point they would use bobby who they're still trying to depict as the immature brash little boy you'd think so but they've given him a lot of attention recently they argue about whether that telepathic message was real like a lot a lot and the professor has no time for that now to tell them that it was actually him This is the this fucking thing about Professor X, right?
01:10:07
Speaker
Every problem is caused by him not telling people anything. Like, the X-Men had to fight the Avengers because he wouldn't tell anybody why they had to stop them from going after, I guess that was Lucifer, too. like Yeah, there was no time for that now.
01:10:23
Speaker
I know, right? ah He lets Mimic escape, and he won't tell them why. He tells them not to destroy Dominus. He won't tell them. He doesn't tell anybody anything, even though he can speak in your head. he can put a thought into your brain.
01:10:35
Speaker
it could happen instantly. You could just know why. My favorite panel in the entire comic book is the ultimate fate of Porter Mac. And we never see Porter Mac again. This is his last appearance in a comic This is it?
01:10:49
Speaker
Him and who was the master of the eight men? Magor the killer? Magor, your favorite. and Yeah, Magor, Porter Mac. If I were to write a Marvel comic, it would be a team up between Magor, Porter Mac.
01:11:05
Speaker
Versus who? ah X-Men, I guess. yeah they would they yeah they're both x-men villains right i mean if i was chris claremont right like they would have been sucked into some uh weird other dimension and then spit out as cyborgs who are focused on revenge but outstanding i'm not so they'd just be guys what if they fight kazar and his saber-toothed tiger Put Porter Mack into the Savage Land.
01:11:31
Speaker
There's a and dinosaurs. There is a storyline like somewhere in the 200s of Uncanny X-Men where timelines start merging and the X-Men fight cowboys again.
01:11:42
Speaker
How cool would it have been if he had pulled Porter Mack for that? That would have been great. I can't believe. yeah Do they name all those cowboys? I think they name one of them. But it's just so funny that this character appears with a full name and a posse and this display of bravery. He's a clear character. And he exits all of Marvel Comics trapped in a big ice cube strapped to a horse.
01:12:12
Speaker
The tragic tale of Porter Mack. ah He thought he was ready for these New York boys. um It's still just so striking that Lucifer is just Magneto. He is 80% Magneto. Yeah, yeah. Also, ah he's Satan, right? it's just It's just Satan.
01:12:31
Speaker
And he's from hell. The otherworldly dimension that he comes from is hell. I mean, again, there's just so many devils in the Marvel Universe. ah One other very funny panel.
01:12:43
Speaker
Okay. Lucifer is being banished to a nameless dimension where neither time nor space exist. Mm-hmm. And as he's being whisked away, he says, help me, X-Men, help me.
01:12:55
Speaker
Well, now, now, but and unfortunately, now he's being ejaculated from the butt. So they, they can't, they can't do anything about it. right That's enough. but
01:13:06
Speaker
You went too far. I disagree. I didn't go far enough. Let's move on to issue 22 divided. We fall editor emeritus, Stan Lee script by Roy Thomas art by Jay Gavin, AKA Werner Roth inking by Dick Ayers lettering by Artie Samick and Colosso by Irving for Bush robotics, Inc.
01:13:30
Speaker
Huh? Release date, May 3rd, 1966, my birthday. Whoa. The month and day, not the year. Cover date, July 1966. Yeah, you're only 24. Fun fact, issue 21 was actually released on my dad's birthday.
01:13:43
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. Listeners can really learn a lot about my parents. and and your And all your passwords on every... My medical allergies. yeah They know your medical allergies. They'll learn your pet's name, your parents' birthdays. This is the first, second, and third security question for my bank account.
01:14:04
Speaker
I should mention at the end of issue 21, get next issue, Count Nefaria. Nuff said. We're in the Nuff said era. I don't think that's Nuff said because I don't know who Count Nefaria is.
01:14:17
Speaker
Yeah, i think you need to say a little more than that, to be honest. So let's recap this issue that they're talking about. We open once again on an X training session. They're in the danger room. ah it has a new robot called Colosso that the professor designed himself to level up their training.
01:14:32
Speaker
The X-Men struggle at first, but work together to defeat it. Once their training is over, the professor announces that he is once again letting them take a vacation, two weeks this time since the last one was interrupted by all the Lucifer business. Yeah.
01:14:48
Speaker
Scott once again begins to mope away, but this time Jean invites him to join her and Warren for dinner. The professor privately reveals his anger over his disability and then just doesn't return in the issue. That's that's it for him.
01:15:02
Speaker
Cut supervillain lair where Nefaria reveals he is reviving... Sorry, Nefaria, if you don't know, is what, an early Silver Age villain of Iron Man's? Anyway, we see him... yeah, it's not that long ago. They treat it like he's some...
01:15:22
Speaker
We'll talk about it, but they treat it like he is some ancient ah comic book character. Yeah, yeah. I mean, definitely not. We're talking about the same age of comics here. Yeah.
01:15:34
Speaker
We cut to his lair where Count Nefaria reveals he is reviving the Magia crime syndicate as its head, and he has assembled five supervillains to help him. He wants the X-Men to join him as allies to guarantee his victory, assuming they'll be on board because of how much society hates them.
01:15:50
Speaker
But back in New York, Hank and Bobby meet up with their dates and Scott, Gene, and Warren enjoy dinner at a fancy restaurant. As Scott heads back to his hotel, though, he sees Marvel Girl flying through Central Park.
01:16:03
Speaker
He goes to check it out. Meanwhile, the rest of the X-Men are just hearing reports of X-Men flying in Central Park. And or seeing duplicates of the X-Men flying around. They all decide independently to investigate and are each accosted by a different early Silver Age villain.
01:16:19
Speaker
Gene is foiled by Plant Man's chloroform gas gun. Warren is bested by Scarecrow's crows capturing him in a net. Hank is mesmerized by the porcupine's hypnotic disc, and then the eel and the unicorn and team up to zap Bobby and Scott, respectively.
01:16:38
Speaker
Back at the supervillain lair, we get a ton of exposition. Nefaria knows that he's leading a shaky coalition of supervillains, but their mistrust of each other will keep them from banding together and turning on him.
01:16:50
Speaker
nefaria makes his offer to the captured x-men joining him would make them an unstoppable force for crime or evil or whatever uh the x-men decline and nefaria lets them know they'll join him willingly or not and announces in his intention to steal washington dc to be continued Why are these guys keep wanting to steal cities? How do you even steal a city?
01:17:17
Speaker
Unbelievable. i do love that Bobby and Hank are just a couple of New York boys, old fashioned, mid sixty s Greenwich Village hipsters.
01:17:29
Speaker
And they're just so excited to to head back to the city. i'm I'm confused about something and we arere going to have to we're going to have to dig into this. Count Nefaria. This issue says that we haven't seen him since, what was it? Tales of Suspense 68, I think. let's let's Let's look that up right now.
01:17:49
Speaker
Tales of Suspense 68. Okay. This was an issue from 1959 with Iron Man. with iron man And Captain America, the Marvel Wiki confirms that Count Nefaria is the antagonist.
01:18:03
Speaker
Having returned from Ireland, Happy Hogan assumes to work work at Stark Industries, and Tony Stark gets a letter from his cousin Morgan asking for help. What Tony doesn't realize is that his cousin Morgan is under the employ of Count Nefaria.
01:18:15
Speaker
So he just shows up on a ah yeah on like a projection screen, right? Both Wikipedia and the Marvel Wiki for Count Nefaria both say that Count Nefaria's first appearance is in Avengers number 13, December 1964.
01:18:33
Speaker
nineteen sixty four Which is like a year and a half before this. Correct. And we can clearly see yeah On the cover of Avengers 1964. Like there's not. that This is uncontroversial.
01:18:46
Speaker
It says the castle of Count Nefaria. And there's a picture of Count Nefaria on the cover. So when. yeah these are Stan Lee says. It's about time to. He's been out of circulation since Suspense 68. That's wrong.
01:18:59
Speaker
He was in Avengers number 13. year ago. This is an editor's note. so that we So we know it is Stan Lee. That's making this declaration.
01:19:10
Speaker
And it seems that nobody but this text box seems to think that Count Nefaria actually appeared. Nobody considers that his first appearance, right?
01:19:21
Speaker
Apparently. So what is going on with Count Nefaria? Why Why this? so why is this It seems to me, and we were just talking about this, but it seems to me like, number one, they wanted a reason to bring back some villains.
01:19:35
Speaker
Number two, they're still overcorrecting for having too many mutant villains and want to finally try to get the X-Men their own rogues gallery.
01:19:45
Speaker
But why pretend that it's like, oh, the villains from yesteryear? I mean, like, okay, here's a... Let me run down the list real quick. Unicorn, an Iron Man villain from 1964, Tales of Suspense.
01:19:57
Speaker
Scarecrow, an Iron Man villain from 1963 in Tales of Suspense. Eel, a Human Torch villain from 1963, Strange Tales. Plant Man, a Human Torch villain, 1963, Strange Tales.
01:20:08
Speaker
Porcupine, an Ant-Man and the Wasp villain from 1963, Tales to Astonish. These aren't yesteryear's villains. They are literally last year's villains. I mean, that is a yesteryear. Okay.
01:20:22
Speaker
You're right. love yeah that he is employing all these strange and colorful supervillains and then also the Magia crime syndicate. Essentially the mafia. Yeah.
01:20:37
Speaker
And their part in this, I mean, they're very much just thugs that he has to to boss around. But Scarecrow, who is not the Batman Scarecrow, he is a man who controls a flock of crows.
01:20:54
Speaker
That's my best read on it. He captures Warren in a net. And gets him to the ground and then just does a get them boys. And the mobsters just come in and start beating him up.
01:21:07
Speaker
Like it's such a complex and artistic supervillain takedown followed by just a, just a beating while he's on the ground. Also like plant man.
01:21:18
Speaker
has like a gun that controls plants, but his gun also just shoots chloroform gas? It seems like you don't need chloroform gas if you can control plants.
01:21:29
Speaker
I was really intrigued by the idea of a chloroform gas gun. Right. Where you're just shooting gas at people for them to to knock them out. Is this thing just controlling plants?
01:21:40
Speaker
I've never seen Plant Man before or since. So I don't know. I don't know any of these villains. Like, I don't know. I know ah some of them have, like, a life beyond this.
01:21:52
Speaker
I think all of them continue to exist in the Marvel Universe, and some are more popular than others. But... ah Yeah, i've I've never encountered any of them.
01:22:03
Speaker
Porcupine just reappeared on She-Hulk, the She-Hulk television show. Porcupine is the most its ridiculous of any of them. Absolutely bizarre. I love this guy. He is just covered in spines. I guess they're quills. They just look like hay. It looks like he's covered. It looks like he is disguised as a haystack.
01:22:24
Speaker
He looks like... yeah ah he's a coyote trying to sneak into a chicken coop in the Looney Tunes cartoon and he plops himself down when when somebody looks his direction there are so many iterations of his uniform and none of them really nail it none of them are reminiscent of a porcupine I fucking love the eel though the eel looks great the eel looks like a Mike Allred character he looks so good He's got electric powers and also he's adapted to water. The two things about eels.
01:22:55
Speaker
Yeah. So Scarecrow, like you said, seems to just control crows or something. This guy was created 20 some years after bat the Batman villain. Oh, really? Yeah. i would have sworn up and down that this is somebody that just predates the Batman villain.
01:23:11
Speaker
Number one, maybe the only reason... being that how do you get that in scarecrow that makes sense that's thematic to the character a scarecrow wouldn't control crows and yeah you make a very good point too how do you get away with that 20 years later i don't know maybe scarecrow wasn't a huge batman villain at the time i don't know anything about batman history but unicorn doing that next unicorn is the strangest one to me Because he he has no equine traits.
01:23:41
Speaker
He doesn't look like a unicorn. He doesn't even have a horn on his He's just a man with a gun on his head. He's a man with a gun on his head that he calls his power horn. That is all he is.
01:23:54
Speaker
And, like, what makes that more special or powerful than a man with a gun in his hands? And he also has guns in his hands! he's just a gun guy he's just a guy with three guns one on his head and two in his palms he's it powerful he's got a powerful gun yeah i love yeah a thing that i love about the golden age and and some of the silver age villains is they seem to come up with the name and work backwards okay yeah and this guy did not do that
01:24:32
Speaker
Like, the eel was like, alright, I'm gonna be the eel, I have to get both electric powers and be able to swim really well. The porcupine was like, alright, I gotta cover myself in some sort of shit that is gonna stab people.
01:24:46
Speaker
But this guy puts a gun on his head, and it's like, I am a super villain. Oh, fuck, what do I call myself? Gunhead? No. Forehead man? No. Rhino? shit. Somebody's already done that.
01:24:59
Speaker
God. ah you know is there is Is there a supervillain named the unicorn? Of course there's not.
01:25:06
Speaker
There's also some really good burns that people have in this issue. um At one point, i think I think it's when the unicorn comes out, Cyclops says, this must be homecoming week for obscure villains. We've never heard of you either.
01:25:21
Speaker
He's right. Later when they're trapped in in their cells. beast is yelling at count nefarion he goes i've got a bulletin for you you're not well i've got a bulletin for you like they also in this issue they take a few shots at the mets i think they i think they adhere to the rule of threes here and just three separate panels throughout the issue somebody's talking about how the mets are down by some ridiculous score and And it's getting worse as you the issue goes on.
01:25:56
Speaker
So I took a moment to look. So it's 1966. The 1966 Mets were not good. Okay. But if this came out in June, we have to assume they were starting before opening day, which is usually early April.
01:26:13
Speaker
so They are most likely referring to the 1965 New York Mets who were terrible. Oh my God, I'm asleep. I am a Philadelphia Phillies fan. I'm trying to remain as objective as possible.
01:26:26
Speaker
This is a stinky Mets team. This team that... Picked up Yogi Berra. You know Yogi Berra, Matt? Okay, boo-boo.
01:26:36
Speaker
Yes. Picked him up in April and dropped him within three weeks. Mid-May, they dropped him. Man, i mean thinking you think he would have squirmed out of their hands by then? a legendary player who joined the team immediately left because he was so past his prime nolan ryan they drafted he would go on to be a huge deal but he's still in the minors at this point he's just getting gri no one ryan yeah okay this is i think the mets fourth year in existence too so things have not looked good for them it is just a ah bad time in history for the new york mets Oh, that wait. So that was interesting. Go Phils. You said one interesting thing there. And it's that the Mets just became a team.
01:27:20
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. They so I want to 61 was their first year. Maybe it was like a standard New Yorker joke at that time to like punk on the Mets. Yeah, this is, with you might not know this, Matt, it's pretty common as a sports fan to do exactly that. Well, yeah, I mean, but I mean, maybe it
Character Depictions and Storytelling Styles
01:27:38
Speaker
was more common than just like, oh, ah Yankees fans diss on the Mets. Maybe everyone was dissing on the Mets because they were just some new team that everyone was like, who the fuck are these guys? Yeah, and they were terrible.
01:27:49
Speaker
They went. Like, why do they even exist? What is with these guys? You're going to drop your jaw. They went 50 and 112. fifty and a hundred and twelve The 309 winning percentage.
01:28:00
Speaker
They were 29 and 52 at home. yeah i That all makes sense. to I know what all that means. And it all makes sense to me. And i really... I appreciate your... Sorry.
01:28:14
Speaker
Okay, one more note on this. The boys, Bobby and Hank, are out on a date with Vera and Zelda before they realize that they have to leave because there's some sort of X trouble going on. okay They are off to, after a movie, go grab chips and a soda with their dates.
01:28:36
Speaker
Ha ha ha! This is the mid-60s in Manhattan. You are left to your own devices. You have a hotel room, it looks like, to yourself with these girls.
01:28:49
Speaker
And you are going out for chips and a soda. I still don't understand. Why did Vera agree to go out with Hank again? She doesn't like him. I think that the two of them probably have difficulty finding people...
01:29:04
Speaker
Because they're both big dwarfs. they maintain interest in and that maintain interest in them. Because they both seem to be big, kind of arrogant nerds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're the only ones will talk to each other. this is Exactly.
01:29:17
Speaker
Hank is a funny looking dude. He also mistakes a lanky man for Vera, suggesting that she has probably some mannish qualities. And this is the 60s. So that was ah that made you a pariah as a woman.
01:29:34
Speaker
Another ah disturbing thing that happens in this is Besides Professor X's look of complete deranged maniacal joy at using Colosso to try and beat the hell out of the X-Men.
01:29:51
Speaker
There's a panel where he's like leaned over his little ah remote control. And he's got again, he's got just like this deranged look on his face. But at the end of that page, he's thinking he's according to Roy Thomas.
01:30:04
Speaker
He is ah he has an anguished mind. He is a soul in torment. because they can walk in the sunshine, feel the wind striking their faces while I am confined to this wheelchair. A hopeless cripple, he says.
01:30:17
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Wait, language has sure changed. And as have our sensitivities. Like, was that really how people in wheelchairs felt about themselves in the 1960s?
01:30:29
Speaker
You can still go outside and feel the wind and sun. Who made you feel this way, Professor Xavier? It's also very tropey, right?
01:30:40
Speaker
A disabled person in media just being extremely jealous of all the able-bodied people. Yeah, yes. it How did you feel about this grip of issues? Well, I gotta say, i am happy with them.
01:30:55
Speaker
Okay. There is sort of a ah background arc building up here where people just hate mutants. They're still going on their wacky adventures, but now the spite for mutants is starting to interfere with their plans or their actions.
01:31:11
Speaker
Like the the Sentinel issues that we looked at, they had focused so heavily on it, and now it's just part of their world. think that's really fun world building, and you we know that it's going to...
01:31:24
Speaker
continue It's fun to see it executed so well, so early. right We get two longer stories, and then we get two tight and fun single-issue stories. One is iconic, right? That mimic issue.
01:31:36
Speaker
The other...
01:31:40
Speaker
then we have compelling villains here, not counting the the obscure ones they pulled back in, but like Mimic has a whole story that's told really well within the bounds of a single issue story.
01:31:53
Speaker
Right. Lucifer is fleshed out to be somebody that's actually pretty terrifying and okay even has a boss to answer to himself. We're seeing more complex storytelling, which I know i was on about last time, but these are the ways that they're leveling up that storytelling process.
01:32:10
Speaker
in this arc. I think there's something interesting happening here because it felt like Stan Lee was building something. He was building a world, right? He went from mutants being a new thing for people And there being a divide between evil and good mutants to the world becoming suspicious of mutants.
01:32:31
Speaker
And there being sort of a divide on whether these people were heroes or whether these people needed to be taken down and controlled and introduced to Sentinels. I also want to say those first Stan Lee issues, those first 19 Stan Lee issues, almost every character save two become real important mainstays in the world.
01:32:53
Speaker
Marvel Universe and the X-Men Universe, right? And the two that don't are the one is Mimic who sticks around but pops in and out, right? Mimic doesn't really get much attention in the world of X-Men until ah until his character in Exiles, which I believe is a different, like a completely different version of him. I think that is a Mimic from a different Earth.
01:33:17
Speaker
An alternate. Yeah. and And so Mimic never really gains popularity in Marvel Comics. And then Lucifer, who pretty much disappears after this era, right? Oh, really?
01:33:32
Speaker
Yeah. Does that mean we're going to see... ah The Stranger again? I don't know if we ever see The Stranger again. Just quickly zipping through the ah Marvel wiki, The Stranger comes back a million times.
01:33:45
Speaker
ah But he's not really he's not really an X-Men villain. Fucking weirdo. Then we get to this Roy Thomas era, right? Where he seems to be... I feel like he's leaving behind this world building of the X-Men.
01:33:59
Speaker
I think he's building... ah He's almost like turning them into flavor of the week kind of superheroes. And I think we'll see this more. So we'll talk about this more as we go along. But, you know, one week they're fighting Lucifer and the next they're fighting Count Nefaria and next they're fighting the Dominus machine, right? Like that's Roy Thomas's seems like M.O., right? Is just...
01:34:21
Speaker
ah They're just a superhero team. You just come up with some supervillains thrown at them. And you're right. He does keep some themes going in the background, like the X-Men maturing as human beings. Right. And the other theme um of the world reacting to mutants.
01:34:37
Speaker
But he doesn't really seem interested in building out these things. And these characters don't stick around. Right. Like Count Nefaria doesn't become an X-Men villain. Right. Whatever Roy Thomas is building here, it's something different than Stan Lee was building. And it doesn't have the longevity. It doesn't have the staying power of what Stan was building.
01:34:54
Speaker
And I think that's interesting because I also think Roy Thomas might be a slightly better writer. Yeah, he's he's so the one thing that stood out for me and this was first impression. So maybe I but just have sort of a ah bias after that. But the opening to the first Roy Thomas issue where Blob and Unis are robbing a bank.
01:35:13
Speaker
in X-Men costumes and just the way that it like slowly unravels the mystery as it goes on and then goes into the Lucifer stuff which slows down a little bit I thought that was really gripping I want to see more of that and as silly as the Count Nefaria issue was it does the same thing it takes a long time to sort of build up a mystery yeah that you finally unravel and then yeah maybe by the end of the issue or the end of the next issue That guy's gone and we'll never see him again. But the X-Men themselves are growing and Roy Thomas is finding new ways to put them into situations.
01:35:51
Speaker
Yeah, maybe that's the that's the thing here is that Roy Thomas is really good at writing a superhero adventure while Stan Lee is really good at building a world.
01:36:02
Speaker
And that's the difference between the two here. Yeah, yeah. Any final thoughts?
Vintage Comic Book Ads and Podcast Social Media
01:36:07
Speaker
Do you have, oh, do we have a patch deal in Steel? Matt, I get a wild steals and deals.
01:36:16
Speaker
Okay. This one's a two-parter. i'm going to start with the first part, which is the less outrageous one, but still somewhat outrageous. Shop by mail, live seahorses, $1 each, not sea monkeys, ah which I first thought this was.
01:36:30
Speaker
Seahorses with free seashells. Yeah.
01:36:42
Speaker
fascinating hobby for young and old keep them in an ordinary bowl or jar unusual intriguing hours of fun in this species father seahorse gives birth to the live babies All seahorse orders receive free beautiful imported shells of the world collection to decorate bowl.
01:36:59
Speaker
Order your seahorses today. Free food and instructions included. Live delivery guaranteed. huh So those live seahorses are a dollar, $2 for mated pair, $2.98 for two mated pairs.
01:37:10
Speaker
ah Right now we're looking at about a one to 10. The U S dollar right now in 2025 is actually yeah yeah pretty unstable. So it goes up and down from the episode to episode, but we're looking at at about 10 cents to the dollar in 1966 1895. Okay.
01:37:27
Speaker
for eighteen ninety five you can have a darling pet monkey. This squirrel monkey makes an adorable pet and companion, show it affection and enjoy its company. Almost human with its warm eyes. Your family will love it.
01:37:42
Speaker
These young monkeys grow about 12 inches high, eat same food as you do, even likes lollipops. Simple to take care of and train. Free cage, free leather collar and the leash, free monkey toy and instructions included. Live delivery guaranteed.
01:37:58
Speaker
Wow. And this is from... a company named Animal Farm.
01:38:05
Speaker
So definitely post George Orwell's Animal Farm. But I guess it's a distinctly different business. So there's a mental floss article by Jake Rosen, Rosen, Rosen, called When Comic Books Sold Live Monkeys.
01:38:22
Speaker
And it is about a man named Jeff Tuttle who bought one of these monkeys from one of these ads and hid it from his parents, went out and picked up the monkey.
01:38:34
Speaker
The monkey attacked him immediately. Yeah, that's what they do. Came in a little cardboard box, probably the size of a shoe box, except it was higher. Had a little chicken wire screen window in there. There was a cutout. All you could see if you looked in there was his face.
01:38:50
Speaker
He opened the box and it attacked him immediately. Got taken to the emergency room. My However, his parents allowed him to keep the monkey. And they lived happily ever after?
01:39:02
Speaker
ah Died at five years old. Oh, how long does a monkey live? How long does a squirrel monkey live? I think like 20 years. Eats the same food as you do, even likes lollipops is. Oh my God.
01:39:13
Speaker
So depressing. This is 60 years ago at this point. So I think I'm entitled to laugh here and there. Lollipops. You're giving these things lollipops to figure out what they like.
01:39:25
Speaker
oh and then the other line so keep in mind these are aimed at boys age 8 to 14 in the 60s and they tell these young boys your family will love it okay so tim tate in 2014 told npr about a time that he bought one of these monkeys from these very ads he went out a without his parents knowing it, obviously, and opened it while his mother's bridge club was getting underway. It jumped around, threw feces at everyone, bit his aunt's breast, and then fled the scene only to be found dead months later in a nearby forest.
01:40:07
Speaker
oh Just insane. There's a the ad includes a photograph of a monkey sitting in this person's hand. And I was I was debating a few different Pat's deals and deals. But then I saw this.
01:40:19
Speaker
it It is really insane that that was true, that that was like you could actually pay this 1895. And how much is that in today's money? Under $200. Yeah.
01:40:29
Speaker
You could save for a week and get a monkey delivered to you by mail. Oh, my God. Do you know how much a fucking purebred dog costs? Compared yeah to $200 in today's money? that's And you shouldn't buy purebred dogs, but we don't need to.
01:40:46
Speaker
They're thousands of dollars. You're right. At this point, you can... ah You can buy a monkey for roughly $9,000. $9,000. That's why this is on Pat Steals and Deals.
01:41:00
Speaker
All right. So just travel back in time. Don't tell your parents. Get a monkey. Please don't let it die. Your family will love it. Well, that's a great Pat Deals and Steals, Pat. Thank you.
01:41:11
Speaker
I think we're going to continue to see these because I saw them in two issues. Apparently they continue to the So I'm reading. Oh my God. Yeah. All right. I'll have to ignore them as I keep going.
01:41:23
Speaker
The more I talk about it, the more depressing it is. 18 through 22, huh? Yeah. Wow. We're getting there. We're moving. We're moving along. Are we doing, hang on, I'm doing my most powerful mental projection ever. Okay.
01:41:38
Speaker
Next episode will be covering 23 through 27. That is correct. And it looks like, I think what we're going to see is another just parade of Roy Thomas moments.
01:41:50
Speaker
weird supervillains. So can't wait. Everybody look forward to that. As Pat alluded to earlier, we recorded some of these in advance. So we have just now put up all our stuff. yeah You can email us at mutant menace pod at gmail.com. You can find us on YouTube by searching mutant menace podcast. You find us on all podcast platforms. You can find us on Instagram at mutant menace pod.
01:42:18
Speaker
And ah make sure you review us. Make sure you tell your friends. Make sure you share on social media. We're, again, we're still just trying to get off the ground here. So anything you can do to share will be appreciated.
01:42:31
Speaker
We'll be putting on our YouTube channel, if you want to go there and subscribe, we'll be putting some video clips here and there up. And every, obviously, every podcast um audio will be up on YouTube and Spotify and everywhere else.
01:42:46
Speaker
So, thanks to Krils Wilson for our intro music and Juliet Selly for the playing the part of Trish Tilby. Pat, as we say every single week, be patient, pussycat. The best is yet to come. Remember, inside the shaft moving at incredible speed, some kind of massive shape streaking down towards that butt.