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S2:E7 - We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson (2018 Film)
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This week, we’re stepping into the haunting world of Shirley Jackson’s We Have Always Lived in the Castle—a gothic tale of mystery, isolation, and murder. And of course, we’re breaking down its 2018 film adaptation to see if it captures the eerie magic of the book. Isolated mansions, family secrets, and a town full of angry villagers—what more could you want? Join us as we unravel the mystery and madness!
Hosted by Lindsey with co-hosts Crystal and Keri.
Books & Adaptations Mentioned:
- We Have Always Lived in the Castle by Shirley Jackson
- We Have Always Lived in the Castle (2018 Film)
- The Ornithologist’s Field Guide to Love by India Holton
- The Wisteria Society of Lady Scoundrels by India Holton
- The House in the Cerulean Sea by TJ Klune
- Remarkably Bright Creatures by Shelby Van Pelt
- The Player Next Door by K.A. Tucker
- Midnight Sun by Stephenie Meyer
Question of the Episode:
- “In the end, Merricat and Constance were stuck with the last library books they checked out—If you only had access to the last book or series you were reading, what are you stuck with?”
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Send us a Book Adaptation Request!
Intro/Outro Music - Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!)
Thanks for listening to Based on a Book - see you in the next chapter!
Chapters:
(00:00) Introductions
(02:04) Ratings
(07:17) Book vs. Movie Breakdown (SPOILERS)
(55:36) Final Verdicts
(56:08) Question of the Episode
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Episode Focus
00:00:08
Speaker
based on a book, the podcast that does not condone arson. I'm Lindsay, and I have fully embraced my eccentric recluse era. I'm Crystal, and I would lock the gate too if I had one.
00:00:22
Speaker
And I'm Carrie, and to stick to the theme of our last week's episode, you can't eat at everybody's house.
00:00:33
Speaker
That's right. This week, we're stepping into the eerie, unsettling world of Shirley Jackson's We Have Always Lived in the Castle, and it's 2018 film adaptation.
00:00:49
Speaker
So, for those of you who don't know, We Have Always Lived in the Castle was released in 1962, and was Jackson's final work before her death in 1965. Yeah.
00:01:03
Speaker
Some of you may be familiar with her work because she also wrote The Haunting of Hill House. Which we didn't cover, but we sure did talk about when we covered Long Panthers. Honestly, we should cover. we really should cover it. We probably will. Season three.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yep. Stay tuned.
Summary of 'We Have Always Lived in the Castle'
00:01:25
Speaker
but The novel is written in the voice of 18-year-old Mary Catherine Blackwood, who lives with her ago agoraphobic sister and sick uncle in their family estate.
00:01:37
Speaker
Six years before the story takes place, the Blackwood family experienced a tragedy that left the three survivors isolated from their small village. So if you love gothic horror with a side of unease, then grab your sugar bowl and join us as we unravel the mystery of the Blackwood Sisters. Should you grab the sugar bowl? Maybe not. Maybe skip the sugar. Yeah.
00:02:03
Speaker
Well, first, we're going go with the ratings. And I want to hear from you, Crystal. I knew it. I knew it. You know what? I'm just going to make this short and sweet. I give it 3.95 buried treasures.
00:02:18
Speaker
I couldn't couldn't bring myself to give it a four, but it was real damn close. Okay. Carrie? I feel that. I feel that. I gave it four silver dollars.
00:02:32
Speaker
Oh my gosh. What? What? gave it three and a half silver dollars. You know what, Lindsay? You know what's so crazy is I had something different right before this and I changed it the last minute and I literally thought in my head, Lindsay's going to have the same exact rating.
00:02:51
Speaker
She's going to use silver dollars. I swear on my life. I literally thought that right before we started recording. i was like, she's going to have the same rating as me. I just know it. I really did think that.
00:03:03
Speaker
I almost changed mine too. I literally almost changed mine. I changed mine last minute to buried treasures, actually. I have written down silver dollars. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. We are just ridiculous. when like we We all just tend to think so similarly.
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, we were on the same page. Especially the more episodes that we do. i know. Yeah. I was like, I kind of low-key, was like, I wonder if I could guess which one they're going to pick.
Audiobook Narration and Folktale Aspects
00:03:33
Speaker
I kind of wanted to all be the same. But I listened to the audio. The narrator Bernadette Dune, think. And the narration was so good. I cannot express how good the narration was on this audiobook.
00:03:48
Speaker
And... The book, like, I totally understand what you mean, Crystal, about the 3.95. I was so curious how you were going to feel because i know it does that thing where, like, you're not getting this, like, satisfying...
00:04:06
Speaker
i at least in my interpretation of it, you don't get this satisfying feeling from it. Like, the ending is a satisfying ending. And I knew, like, you kind of need that. kind of hate that.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah. So I was like, I'm so curious what Crystal's going to think. But... I think for me, like, you get to build your, like, own interpretation. and It feels like almost like a, at the end, like a folktale about, like, two sisters in the end.
00:04:32
Speaker
And you don't know it until you're done reading it. Absolutely. And I think that's why I felt, I, like, really liked it a lot. This kept me, I don't want to say it kept me guessing because it it really didn't. It was a little on the predictable side. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:04:48
Speaker
But it kept me wanting to know more. What are they going to do next? How are they going to respond to this? What's going on? Like I kept turning the page, even though, like you said, it doesn't really give that like wrapped in a bow satisfying conclusion that I have a tendency to love.
00:05:06
Speaker
But it still left me like it. I think you're right. Like it kind of left me with that. Like these end up being the two witchy sisters that live in the in the house in the woods. yeah And I love that. I love that.
00:05:20
Speaker
So the only reason it's not a four really is because I didn't get the, the boat ending, but yeah. Yeah. I agree.
Blackwood Family's Past and Isolation
00:05:27
Speaker
What did you think, Lindsay? ah That was pretty accurate from both of you.
00:05:31
Speaker
That's honestly how I felt. And at the end, like Crystal said, where it feels like they're the two witchy, sisters from the stories, like, then they become scary stories to tell in the dark.
00:05:43
Speaker
Mm. Yep. Yeah. yeah Yep. Exactly. That's what it felt like, especially when, you know, it's like, they're like the talk of the town in this house in the end.
00:05:55
Speaker
Like, we're going to get into it and stuff more, but... I don't know. And it's like, what are we like, as I'm reading, I'm like, what are we going to get to? Like, what is the outcome that's going to happen here? And then finally get to the end. You're just like, Oh, that like, we're having, we're getting like a tale told to us of like the origin story. Exactly. Exactly.
00:06:17
Speaker
I think, in and too, like, in the even in the very, very beginning of the book, you know, Mary Kat's telling us this story of how the townsfolk, like, they we they call each other, they call them names, they tease the family, they sing these taunting little songs to them, and they're already, like, they already are kind of the, like,
00:06:45
Speaker
urban legend of their of their town. you know And then they they just end up the urban legend of... like It just... It it really... eat earned every last bit of that 3.95. Yeah.
00:06:59
Speaker
yeah It's just weird. But it's like good and then I don't know. I can't describe it. It's just bizarre. It's almost unsatisfying in the best way.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah. Totally. Chaotic good. yeah Yeah, exactly. All right. Well, I think ah it's about time to get into it then before we start saying anything and ruining things. Yeah.
00:07:26
Speaker
almost did Almost dead. Almost dead. So, dear listeners, consider this your official invitation to the Blackwood Estate. But beware. Once you step inside, there's no turning back.
00:07:39
Speaker
We're about to discuss We Have Always Lived in the Castle in all its glory, which means spoilers ahead. If you haven't read the book or watched the movie yet and want to keep mystery intact, now's the time to retreat to your reading nook.
00:07:52
Speaker
Otherwise, pour yourself a cup of tea and let's get into it. already got mine right here. almost got tea. I have water. She brought all of our team.
00:08:04
Speaker
Right. So this episode does contain themes and scenes that may be distressing for some, such as murder and poisoning, psychological manipulation, gaslighting, violence, destruction of property, arson, mental illness, unreliable narration, bullying, death and grief, and themes of horror.
Exploration of Family Dynamics and Rituals
00:08:25
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So, fun.
00:08:33
Speaker
So like I said before, ah the story is told from the perspective of Mary Catherine Blackwood, also known as Mary Cat, who is played by, i want to say her name is Thaisa Farmiga.
00:08:49
Speaker
I really like her sister and she does really well too. yeah ah You know what? And I knew the girl that's playing Mary Catherine. the second Because, you know, I like to go in kind of blind into these movies, especially like not knowing who's like playing what character and stuff. And going into it in the second I saw she's like, oh, I know this is about to be good. I know this about to be good because she's from American Horror Story.
00:09:16
Speaker
And I was like, oh, she's about to nail this. She's about to nail this character right now. Because she she always plays like really weird stuff.
00:09:27
Speaker
and Especially in American Horror Story. Her sister is Vera Farmiga and she plays... I can't think of her name from The Conjuring, the the main lady.
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. And then ah her sister was in, i think, The Nun. Yes. Yeah. I did see that. So they always do really well with scary stuff. I really like both of them.
00:09:52
Speaker
ah But Mary Kat lives in a spacious house isolated from the adjacent village with her older sister, Constance.
00:10:02
Speaker
She's also like in a ton of things too. She is. Yeah. And she's so pretty. know. Isn't she though? but Those eyes are gorgeous. For real. And they live with their uncle Julian, who's played by Crispin ah spin Glover.
00:10:16
Speaker
And you know what? I was like, whenever I saw him, it was so funny because i was like, oh, i was like, oh, who is that? Who's that? but You know, the first thing I thought of was not Back to the Future, because obviously Back to the Future.
00:10:29
Speaker
The first thing I thought of... Charlie... Oh, God. Well, that's another good one, too.
00:10:39
Speaker
That was the first thing I thought of. Because I used to be obsessed with Charlie's Angels when I was younger. i was so obsessed. I used to watch that so much, but that was the first thing I thought of. was like, is that that guy?
00:10:53
Speaker
Not Back to the Future. guy. Which is another movie I literally love. Not that guy. no but Not that guy. So Constance hasn't left their house in six years, um only going as far as her garden.
00:11:11
Speaker
Uncle Julian, who is wheelchair-bound, obsessively writes and rewrites notes for his memoirs while Constance looks after him. So six years ago, Constance and Mary Cat's parents, John and Ellen, their aunt Dorothy, and their younger brother Thomas died as a result of arsenic poisoning.
00:11:34
Speaker
which was put into the family's sugar bowl and dusted on their blackberries during dinner. Julian was also poisoned, but survived. Mary Cat was not present at the time, since she had been sent to bed without dinner as a punishment.
00:11:52
Speaker
Constance, the only person at the table who did not add sugar to her berries, was arrested and charged with murder, but was acquitted. Go ahead.
00:12:04
Speaker
ahead i love how in the but we don't learn that right away right we get mary kat going into town and the townspeople hate her she's making up stories about the family like you know all she's telling us about all the different townspeople and why they hate her family and the different bad situations they've had with her family and how they tease her and we go through like i would say like the full first section Like, of her in town. It's, so ah what, a full chapter, I think.
00:12:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Before she gets home. And we still don't know what's happened. Or there's why the townsfolk hate her and their family. Mm-hmm. And I really love that. And in the in the movie, they gave that away, like, within the first, like, three or four minutes.
00:12:53
Speaker
Mm-hmm. The townsfolk hate us because they think my sister killed my whole family. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like, oh. Yeah. And there's like a whole, like, there's like so many possibilities of where the story could go within that first chapter. Like, all right, what is going on Like, she's like talking about all types of different things.
00:13:10
Speaker
She's even talking about like seeing like her mother's home, like where her mother was born or something. And you're like, well, what is this going to have to do with like later? Like, how is this going to be relevant and things like that? And like,
00:13:25
Speaker
I don't There's just like so many possibilities happening in the first chapter. and it kind of left you wondering. It left you wanting to keep reading because you're trying to figure out, well, what the hell's going on here? What's yeah what's happening? Why do the townspeople hate them so much? what you know And you don't really find out. Even she gets home and she's with her sister and Uncle Julie and they have dinner. like We don't find out until like the next day when someone comes to visit what actually happened. Yeah, you feel that anxiety of it building. Yeah.
00:13:55
Speaker
Which is what kept me reading, honestly. I know. ah You feel her panic of being like, all right, I have to do this. This is my routine and I need to get home yep at this time and do, you A, B, C, D. And if I get off the routine, something really bad is going to happen. You're like, well, what's going to happen? Like, what what's going to go down if we get off the routine? And she walks you through, like, if I walk in front, if I take this path, then I walk in front of the- the general store and if I go past the general store then I'm probably going to run into so and so and so I don't want to do that I'll do that on the way back and I'll take this she's like walking you through her thought process of where she's going and I don't know like I have anxiety so I have like those moments all the time of like which route am I going to take to go to the store what's going to be the most efficient
00:14:41
Speaker
What are the chances of me running into this one? If I go there first, this place will be busy by the time I get there. You know, like, and so I'm kind of, you're learning her thought process of mapping out how she's going to do this. And it's super identifiable, but also like,
00:14:58
Speaker
you feel her anxiety as she's doing that. You know what i mean? Like that palpable feeling of that a little bit of like dread and and it keeps building and building and building and we don't really know why.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Except the movie just told us right away. So now we know. Yeah. Right. Well, yeah. So the people, the town people believe that Constance got away with murder. Yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker
So they shun the whole family. um In the movie, though, it is just the parents that are poisoned. They don't mention Uncle Julian's wife or their brother Thomas or anything. It's just the parents.
00:15:40
Speaker
Right. um So the three remaining Blackwoods have gotten accustomed to their isolation and they live a calm, satisfied life. Mary Cat is the family's only contact with the outside world.
00:15:54
Speaker
She visits the village twice a week, ah Tuesdays and Fridays, bringing home groceries and library books. During these trips, she is confronted with the locals' hatred and is frequently insulted by groups of children with an incriminating rhyme about poisoned tea.
00:16:12
Speaker
is wrong anyway it wasn't the t but let it slide it's fine mary cat is protective of her sister and practices sympathetic magic to keep borders around the house and for those of you who don't know sympathetic magic is founded on the notion that a person or thing can be supernaturally affected by its name or an object representing it.
00:16:36
Speaker
So she is often burying certain items, or she nails a book to a tree, which is another form of it. So You and see that.
00:16:51
Speaker
That's another thing that in the book, they don't come out and tell us what she's doing. She doesn't come out and tell us what she's doing. She's just doing it. but You know, she says, i need to protect the house, you know, my check my protections. I'm going to go check and make sure that things that I buried or nailed or hung out or whatever she did with them.
00:17:08
Speaker
But in the movie, again, they come out with, they like, she says, i have to make a spell. I have to do a spell. And she says why she has to do it and stuff like that. Right. And so, again, in the book, we get a little bit more of that anxiety because I think, again, people that have, you know, anxiety issues in general have a tendency to have rituals, right? Like, that make them feel a little bit better. And so, at first, you're like, oh, she's going, she's taking this path because that's her ritual. It makes her feel safer. Right.
00:17:37
Speaker
But then she starts checking where she's like put things and stuff and you go, wait a minute, what's going on? Like really, but again, they don't come out and say witchcraft spells. They don't say any of that in the book.
00:17:51
Speaker
We just have to kind of go with the flow, go with the flow and kind of learn it as we go and be like, is this girl like, what what is she doing? You know? But in the movie they're like, oh, she's doing a spell. I'm going to do a spell now. It's like, stop.
00:18:06
Speaker
tell us exactly what's happening. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing left to the imagination. It's fine. I will say I didn't hate the movie, but I loved the book for way different reasons. That's fair. Yeah. And in the movie, like I thought it was,
00:18:21
Speaker
The way that the format is in the movie was really cool because they actually start with the ending. Yes. In the movie, like they just do a little snippet of the ending and you're like, well, what is going on here?
Constance's Fear and Family Speculation
00:18:34
Speaker
Like the sister, like Constance is like putting up a shelf or something and like everything looks like really destroyed. And then all of a sudden it's going like, it says what, what does it say? Like,
00:18:48
Speaker
Certain amount of days prior to right that moment. And the way that it counts down throughout the movie was really cool. And the aesthetic of it was neat. And the book, they kind of did that.
00:19:04
Speaker
But it didn't hit as well as it did in the movie. The movie really did. beautifully set up that like seven days ago six days ago my or however they did it last tuesday or whatever yeah um and that was really well done in the movie yeah and the book mary cat is just like there's a change coming i know it but there's no indication ah time frame exactly when it's gonna happen yeah the movie did hit different Constance only sees one family friend, Helen Clark, who comes to tea every week.
00:19:40
Speaker
Helen tries to persuade Constance that she should rejoin the outside world. And this not only frightens Mary Cat, it also enrages her.
00:19:51
Speaker
So she tries to use her magic to keep Constance from leaving. I think in the movie, she buried a doll that their father had given Constance.
00:20:03
Speaker
It was the doll that never blinked or something. I have a question. Because I'm really trying... Like, I was trying to see if I made this up in my head or but if I actually read this part.
00:20:17
Speaker
Because it it's so up for interpretation their past that like we're making a lot of assumptions about their past.
00:20:30
Speaker
So I want to make sure I get this right. But I swear that whenever we're getting like the details of Constance, like whenever she was like put on quote, like put on trial and stuff for being accused of like poisoning her family and things.
00:20:51
Speaker
I swear one of the reasons they were also accusing her was because she said something about her father, too. Like, I swear it was, like, it said something where it was, like, she said that she was happy that they had died. That they deserved it. Something like they deserved it, yeah. They deserved it. Okay, okay. I was like, I wanted to make sure I didn't just make that up.
00:21:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, she said that, but... Again, we have this unreliable narrator, so we don't necessarily know what actually happened at the trial. Yeah. Because it's actually Uncle Julian that mentions that.
00:21:29
Speaker
have it Right. trial Yeah. But through the narration of Mary Kat. So we don't really, you know. i also interpreted it as um He was like, lying like, he was like, embellishing it or something. Well, because he even said, what was the line that he said that it was basically like, make sure that something happens to me that somebody gets my papers and that they won't be not somebody who's going to be too interested in in the truth or something like that.
00:22:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then he said, like, i you know, I think in this chapter, I'm going to open with a lie. I'm going to tell them my wife was beautiful. you know Yeah. Like. Yeah. So he it's almost like he's trying to tell an interesting story, not the truth.
00:22:16
Speaker
Gotcha. Okay. Okay. I actually took it as Constance could have said that, but meant it as death was a good thing, that They deserved death as a reward, not as a punishment.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah, because she did say at some point that, like, don't we all deserve death or something like that? Something, yeah. yeah Okay, okay. Yeah. Okay, interesting. So definitely up for interpretation. There's so much that leaves you just kind of, like, wondering what happened and kind of, like, wait, it's like Carrie said, did I make that up or did that actually what? Yeah, right. Yeah.
00:22:54
Speaker
In the movie, Constance sends Mary Kat on an errand into town on Thursday. Which is not her day. Which is not her day to go to town. Off the routine. And honestly, I was panicking.
00:23:07
Speaker
i was too. I was like, what is happening here? This is bad. This is not a good sign. Don't do it. Don't go. this is not a good sign. So Mary Cat is concerned about going into town on the incorrect day and does not have have time to check her magical defenses.
Charles' Disruption and Motives
00:23:23
Speaker
So she returns to find that all of her wards have been unearthed. And before she can tell her sister... She is introduced to Charles, their distant cousin.
00:23:37
Speaker
Which... I like Sebastian Stan. Not good choice. He was not a good choice for this. No. No. ah Charles quickly develops a close friendship with Constance and gains her trust.
00:23:54
Speaker
waiting for comments. I'm waiting for you to just say it. Close friendship? That's that putting it nicely. it is it was getting a little incesty in here.
00:24:07
Speaker
It was alluded to in the book. and and and Like barely. Barely. And it was more that Constance was... more that consance was I don't want to say afraid to stand up to to a man in the house, but it was more like maybe she wanted desperately to have a man in the house, someone else to take on this responsibility that she'd been carrying for so long. And so she was just really like, whatever he wants, if he's willing to take on all this craziness, like let him have it.
00:24:42
Speaker
But in the, you know, and so she kind of gave into him a lot and whatever you want, I'll keep you happy. Just keep him happy. So he doesn't leave kind of thing. no But in the movie, like flat out, they were like touching each other and holding each other and talking about running away together. And like, whoa what i like I have some cousins that I would consider to be incredibly handsome, but I would never, ever, ever look at them like that. Like, they wouldn't we would never hold each other. I would never come into their room with they were just wrapped in a towel after a shower. Nope. Nope.
00:25:17
Speaker
Sorry. I just... but i own Done. It was just wrong. i i wish they would... Because i I had not gone there in the book.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yeah, I wasn't... I really wasn't... mentally going there at all and then in the movie i was like is this supposed to be tension here because i'm that scared i'm yeah scared and i want to go home i'm scared at first i thought it was just weird like constance is doesn't know how to act and and and that's kind of you know what i mean around this new man in the house that seems to be taking over like but also like Yeah, there was no room for interpretation in the movie. That was definitely a romantic interest happening there. And it was just freaked me out. I did not like that.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah. And Maricat is like, she is not she is not about it. She is not about this man. No. you I was looking up like a lot of theories about this.
00:26:18
Speaker
Like, why? And there's, like, a lot of assumptions here. Like, there's assumptions of, like, possible, like, abuse in the past. Like, with her father. and he's taking over this father's role.
00:26:33
Speaker
Her father's role. Wearing, like, his clothes. And, like, doing all this stuff. And staying in his room. Yeah. Yeah. yeah And she is just... And also the fact trying to take away...
00:26:45
Speaker
Constance in general. Right. And that especially comes into play a little later on in the story. And right before that, she Constance was like singing like remember she was like singing like about leaving. or like In the movie, this wasn't really in the book, but in the movie she was singing about like going away or like talking about Italy or something. Right.
00:27:08
Speaker
i I think what in the book I started getting really mad when Charles showed up because like leave it to a man to show up and ruin what is a perfectly fine household. Like it might be weird. It might not be what everyone wants, but it's working for the people living there and they're not bothering anybody. It's like Mary Kat says in the very beginning of the book, we never hurt anybody. We put things back where they belong. Like,
00:27:34
Speaker
that's That was it. And here comes Charles. like You can't do it like that. Why are you doing this? Why are you letting her get away with that? Why are you letting Uncle Julian do this? You can't be like this. you could like Don't tell us what to do in our own home.
00:27:48
Speaker
Get your ass out. late and We all know he's not there for the right reason. mean i was I was heated in the book. I was like, this man's got to go. we ah Also, the uncle in the book, i like I liked him in the book, but in the movie was...
00:28:08
Speaker
kind of cracking me up like people would just be trying to have a conversation and he'd be like so i'm thinking for my book what about for this scene and it was literally killing me i think i'm thinking i start chapter 45 with yeah like nobody's like paying attention to him and he's like for chapter 45 i'm thinking for i'm gonna say and everyone's like du Jill.
00:28:31
Speaker
we Yes, Uncle Julian. Sure. Okay, Uncle Julian. Yeah, we'll do... well Here's a biscuit. Great idea. Here's a biscuit. Here's your box. Put all your stuff in.
00:28:43
Speaker
We'll get to you later. Why don't we roll you out into the garden for a little while? Put you in the sun. Poor Uncle Julian. Poor Uncle Julian.
00:28:54
Speaker
So Charles is aware that Mary Kat's resentment... but He's aware of Mary Kat's resentment... this was This really got me in the book. Because he starts talking to Jonas the cat.
00:29:08
Speaker
h Like, Mary Cat's not there. Jonas, I think Mary Cat doesn't like me. was like... Boy, don't talk about me like I'm not sitting right here. i know. And Jonas was so much in the book.
00:29:21
Speaker
Not enough Jonas in the movie. Agreed. For real. Obviously. Not enough Jonas. I'm, you know, I was really glad. It's not really a spoiler, but nothing happens to Jonas. He makes it. So I was concerned.
00:29:34
Speaker
I was too. Yeah, I was scared. Good girl's guide. look yeah We've had a rough, rough couple of months on on animals. So let's... We're traumatized. It's to see one live.
00:29:46
Speaker
yeah But yeah, Mary Kat doesn't like Charles. So Charles just becomes increasingly disrespectful to her as well as angry with Julian and his illness.
00:29:59
Speaker
He frequently mentions the money the sisters have locked in their father's safe and gradually builds an alliance with Constance, persuading her to leave her family.
00:30:10
Speaker
And Mary Cat considers Charles as a threat, obviously, and tries a variety of magical methods to drive him out of the house, including vandalizing his room and his belongings and speaking to him only in descriptions of poisonous plants.
00:30:27
Speaker
Honestly, that's some petty shit that I love. you I mean, because Charles was like for real saying things like, how are you going to feel when she sends you off?
00:30:38
Speaker
When she sends you away? She's going to send you away. you know like I'm going to help her. We're going to get you out of here. like a month from now, when it's just me and Constance, how are you going to... like He was just being a jerk. And so when she was all like...
00:30:54
Speaker
you know, i can't remember the names of the mushrooms, the Amanita, whatever, whatever. and he was all like, shut up. And I was like, keep going, girl. Keep going, girl. I just like how Constance was just like, oh yeah, I taught her that.
00:31:08
Speaker
Yep. And Uncle Julian for chapter 45.
00:31:15
Speaker
Like and there was a scene, like they really, I think they did this so well in the movie where it they were all sitting like at the table for dinner and she's like con like he uh the cousin is getting like really annoyed at maricat because she keeps like saying all like the poisonous mushrooms and stuff and you know constance is like really trying to like quote keep the peace but like she's just basically like just trying to make sure everybody's like happy in like the worst way and she never stops smiling the whole time she doesn't she's like a robot like she's very much like stepford wife yeah and then
00:31:59
Speaker
So they're like going back and forth and across the table, the uncle is just kind of, so I'm thinking for chapter 45, I'm going to do this. Everyone's just like, oh my gosh, it was so chaotic.
00:32:11
Speaker
Like so much anxiety and it was too much, but it in like the best way where it was just like, it just kept escalating and building and it was really good. It was so stressful, but it was so good. Yeah, it was perfect. It was like perfect compared to like the book.
00:32:26
Speaker
Mm hmm. But not only does Mary Cat not like Charles, Uncle Julian doesn't like him either. No. Does not trust him at all. he's like.
00:32:37
Speaker
At all. But again, Charles is over here trying to get rid of Uncle Julian. He's like, he should be in a home. He's just over there making a mess of himself. Why are you taking care of this old man? You know, you're not doing him any favors by keeping him here.
00:32:53
Speaker
Like, so yeah, Uncle Julian hates him. Like, um he's trying to kick me out of my house. And even he knows that Charles is only there for the money. Yep. Because whenever the cousin first comes, he's like, talks about something. He refers to something about how there's like money hit on the property or something.
00:33:15
Speaker
Like he's like really upset that there's money on the property somewhere. And then he finds that they have a big safe or something with bunch of money. Constance was going to send Charles to town to pick up groceries and stuff.
00:33:29
Speaker
And she's like, oh, I'll give you some money. And he was like, what, you keep money here in the house? And she's oh yeah, father didn't trust banks. Yeah, so and yeah that's when his like the gears start turning for him.
00:33:44
Speaker
And then one night before dinner, Constance sends Mary Cat upstairs to wash her face and hands. And Charles threatens to punish her.
00:33:56
Speaker
So Mary Cat throws everything on his desk, including his lit pipe, into the wastebasket. Oh, no.
00:34:07
Speaker
Don't.
00:34:09
Speaker
I was like, get him, girl. And Mary Cat comes back downstairs. And in the movie, she argues with Charles. And Charles actually attacks her.
00:34:22
Speaker
yeah that that Yeah, I didn't know where that was going. i was scared. I got scared. that yeah I was not expecting that. That was not in the book. He does he does attack her...
00:34:36
Speaker
But it doesn't get, i mean, it does get bad, but it doesn't get like, I thought it was going to go really far. And I was like, right let's not do this. Can we not do this right now?
00:34:47
Speaker
But it doesn't. It doesn't get. he just like drags her up the stairs, like wrestling with her to to like control and drag her. Yeah. Like pulling at her arms and and and grabbing her.
00:34:59
Speaker
kind of wrestling type thing. He doesn't like full on punch her in the face or anything, but like, it's still, she's screaming. Constance is, is, frozen in terror uncle julian starts to get up but you know he's wheelchair bound so he can't and yeah he's like really freaking out yeah he's freaking out over america like he's concerned but he can't get up yeah so he's just sitting at the table and you can see it in his like crisping lover really pulled this off so well he did this like realizing that like
00:35:32
Speaker
I can't help. And I just have to sit here and listen to what's happening. And you like, it it was kind of a i don't know. I don't want to say a beautiful moment, a humbling moment, kind of like just watching that reaction on his face, you know? And then of course, you know, Catherine just following and chasing, but unable to do anything because she's, she can't even speak. She's not screaming. She's just frozen.
00:36:02
Speaker
Yeah, I was like... I mean... I was like shocked that Constance wasn't like helping her sister. Like she was actually not. She was kind of just like. She she was terrified.
00:36:14
Speaker
And she went straight into like freeze. You know that like fawn. You know fight, flight, fawn, freeze. She froze. yeah She'd been fawning the whole time. Whatever you want Charles. well I'll make you happy.
00:36:25
Speaker
And she went straight to frozen. and here's Mary Cat fighting for her freaking life. Yeah. i'll bring it I'll bring it back up a little later. Okay.
00:36:37
Speaker
But as to why Constance. Yeah. Yeah. and And why Mary Cat does fight back. Yeah. and And the result of that. So I'll bring it back up towards the end because I don't want to ruin anything.
00:36:49
Speaker
no yeah I'm excited about that part. I have a lot say on it too. So.
00:36:55
Speaker
So Charles does stop. When he begins to smell smoke, because at this point he's already basically up the stairs where Mary Cat had gone to wash her hands.
00:37:09
Speaker
So he smells smoke and it turns out that the pipe that Mary Cat pushed into the wastebasket has caused a fire. And Charles, in the book, Charles shows up without a car. He just...
00:37:23
Speaker
um don't he walked there. Yeah, because they talk about him going getting through the gate and walking down the trail. Yeah. And when he leaves to go get help for the fire, he runs into town screaming.
00:37:35
Speaker
And in the movie, he brings this fancy, expensive sports car. So... Charles does leave to go get help. And the townspeople arrive to help put out the fire.
00:37:49
Speaker
But then they release their long repressed resentment on the Blackwoods by vandalizing and destroying the house.
Townspeople's Resentment and Fire Aftermath
00:37:57
Speaker
And this part made me emotional. It was yeah so difficult.
00:38:02
Speaker
yep It was really hard to watch. In the book and in the movie, it had me just tore up. yeah It was a rough one. And Mary Cat and Constance run into the woods after being attacked by the locals.
00:38:24
Speaker
Luckily and unluckily, the townspeople do stop and let them go, but it's only after they discover that Uncle Julian has died of, in the in the book, he died of heart failure.
00:38:39
Speaker
And in the movie specifically, he dies of smoke inhalation. so And we see in the movie, like, he goes into his He chooses to stay in there. And, like, locks himself in. And they, the sisters try to go and, like, find him and try to get him out and try to get him out of his room. But he locks himself in his room.
00:39:00
Speaker
With, like, all of his, like, he has, like, all of the pictures. The newspaper clippings. Yeah. From the original when everyone had died. Mm-hmm. In the book, it just seemed like Constance moved him into his room and then just left him there.
00:39:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That was the vibe we were getting. He was going to go get his papers. And she assumed he was safe, too, because the fire was upstairs. Yeah. He was downstairs.
00:39:27
Speaker
Right. that Which was a little, like... I don't want to say that because... I guess ditzy. and And, you know, I hate this in any female character that shows that they were smart and intelligent throughout the book to randomly have this like ditz moment.
00:39:41
Speaker
And they're like, well, the fire's upstairs. Everything downstairs is going to be fine. We can just stay down here. And in fact, they stayed in in the movie. They stayed in the house. In the book, they stay like in the curtains, kind on the porch type thing near the house. On the front behind the vines.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. like so they're they're staying near or the structure. It's a huge house. It's like a manor. a manor house, yeah. But like you should probably just leave the property.
00:40:12
Speaker
Also, I feel like Cousin Charles, like, dipped real fast when he discovered there was a fire instead of, like, even, like, do I even want to attempt to put out the fire that's just contained to this room at the moment? Oh, yeah. He didn't try at all. He didn't try at all. He just, I'm going to run and get help. Everybody get out of here. Yeah. like Well, he would – I remember in the – I don't remember this – The book or... Well, I'm assuming there's reason why it wasn't the book. But in the movie, he specifically would kept kept like getting mad at them because they didn't have like a phone.
00:40:45
Speaker
They mentioned it once in the book, I think. Yeah, they didn't have a phone in their house and stuff. So he knew he had to like see ya. Right. And get some help because they couldn't call anybody.
00:40:59
Speaker
But also... in I don't think it was. I mean they mentioned it once in the movie. But in the book. When he gets back to the house. With the townspeople and the firemen.
00:41:12
Speaker
He keeps yelling. Get the safe. Get the safe. Right. Yeah help me with the safe. somebody There's a safe in the other room. Let's get the safe. like In the movie. It's obvious you're trying to get their money. yeah In the movie I think he was actually trying to open the safe.
00:41:28
Speaker
Instead of having them. Get the actual safe out. Well, that night, Mary Cat and Constance seek refuge under a tree that Mary Cat has transformed into a hideaway, which if I had that as a kid, that would be awesome.
00:41:48
Speaker
Yeah, for real. In the book, it sounded like a really cool little hideaway. They didn't make it as cool in the movie. but Because I thought it was like a cave in the book. Yeah, they made it sound like she had like, i don't know, like a shed or a cave or or something. Like a really cool o place to go. It was really awesome.
00:42:07
Speaker
In the movie, it was just like a blanket under a tree. Yeah. yeah And the next day, Constance reveals that she always knew Mary Cat was the one who poisoned the family.
00:42:25
Speaker
And in the movie, she expresses gratitude that Mary Cat saved her from their wicked father. So this goes back to when Charles was attacking Mary Cat and Constance didn't do anything.
00:42:41
Speaker
Mary Cat has always been her savior. Yeah. And in the book, it's like, it's really not super clear on why Mary Cat did this. Like, it's not... Because she was sent to bed without her supper. She was being punished.
00:43:00
Speaker
And she didn't like that. So she killed them. I think it is hinted at that... Her dad was a bad man. that's that's the interpretation i took from it was that yeah father was abusive the father was abusive that's how i took it and that the mother was cold and i don't want to say unresponsive maybe she was very they they mention her a few times in the book like wanting nice things and want dont not wanting to share with certain people and how you're supposed to act and and very like
00:43:38
Speaker
And Mary Cat was this precocious child, you know, and potentially Constance was being abused by her husband. And like the mom was very just kind of like cold.
00:43:50
Speaker
Yeah. Especially because she has such like a Crazy reaction, like such a strong reaction to the cousin coming. Just from his appearance coming. Yeah. Like it not even like he doesn't even have to speak.
00:44:05
Speaker
And they mentioned in the book that he looks just like their father. Exactly. So that's why I'm like, that's why I feel like. That could be. And Uncle Julian calls him John.
00:44:18
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think it's really interesting how we see that not only was Mary Cat trying to protect Constance from, you know, with their family by the initial poisoning, but also,
00:44:34
Speaker
like being the one who's willing to go to town and and get things, making sure that Constance doesn't have to answer the door when people come to the door, like the doctor who comes to visit Uncle Julian or like, you know, so Mary Cat protects Constance.
Mary Cat and Constance's Bond
00:44:48
Speaker
But Constance also protects Mary Cat knowing that, you know, Mary Cat is precocious and different and weird, but allows her to have those those quirks, those, you know, oddities um and a and doesn't let other people kind of trample on her. And then, of course, took the blame for the death of the family, you know, like was never once giving her up.
00:45:15
Speaker
you know So this this sister bond is really awesome. that's why i think Creepy, but awesome. That's why think that because she took the blame too, that's why I think that Mary Kat did it to help her or something. To protect her. yeah That's why I think that might be also the case as well.
00:45:35
Speaker
yeah Also, like like you said, Constance would always protect Mary Kat because like the cousin would always get really mad when he would find all the buried stuff. Mm-hmm.
00:45:47
Speaker
everywhere and like freak out about it and she would just be like it's no big deal it's fine like that's just what that's just her stuff that's what she does and like the um like the silver dollars and he was like freaking out because it's like that's like money yeah like it's worth something you can't just yeah and and you know constance is over there like dude it's just stuff who cares keeps her happy it's not hurting anybody yeah yeah So Mary Cat does admit that she was the one who poisoned the family.
00:46:21
Speaker
And she claimed that the reason she put the poison in the sugar bowl was because she knew Constance wouldn't use the sugar. And Constance and Mary Cat return to their ruined home and they recover what remains of their belongings.
00:46:38
Speaker
They close off rooms that are too damaged to use. And they basically begin their lives in the limited space available to them. And the house, now without a roof, looks like a castle turreted to open to the sky.
00:46:55
Speaker
So this is now... For real, a castle. Yeah. Yep. Which I did like the... the cap I say castle, but the the estate that they used in the movie I thought was a really good representation.
00:47:08
Speaker
i think so, too. I was curious how they were going to do it. Yeah. um And in the book, Constance and Mary Kat spend a lot of time looking outside through peepholes ah hidden by vines that grew to cover the house.
00:47:25
Speaker
And the townspeople begin to feel regret for their actions. So they they start leaving food on the the doorstep and they start creating these stories about the house and the sisters.
Book vs. Movie: Differences and Recommendations
00:47:39
Speaker
Charles does come back with a journalist. but only once. And he does attempt to reestablish his connection with Constance, but she does ignore him in the book.
00:47:56
Speaker
In the movie, it looks like Constance starts to answer, but she, she does kind of stop herself and Charles breaks into the house and,
00:48:13
Speaker
Mary Cat bludgeons him to death with a snow globe. And then they bury him in the garden. I really, you know, I feel like this does a disservice to consance's care Constance's character.
00:48:30
Speaker
i feel like it does a disservice to her character because it made it seem like Mary Cat makes the decision for her.
00:48:41
Speaker
Like, yeah in the book, I felt like Constance but finally was like, and this is my, like, I'm making this decision and I'm standing up for myself kind of thing and I'm not gonna answer, like, to him anymore. And in the movie, it felt like she was, like, one step away from, like, giving in and talking to him again.
00:49:00
Speaker
and And if it wasn't for Mary Cat, she would have. Yeah, she was going to pick Charles over Mary Cat. Again. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I didn't like that either. I didn't like how they did that. And I think it was for like dramatic effect, I'm assuming.
00:49:16
Speaker
But i will say that as someone who is a caretaker, I really did identify with Constance in that she, I think Charles appealed to her feeling trapped.
00:49:29
Speaker
Like, yes, she's agoraphobic. She's afraid of the town. The townspeople gave her a reason to be afraid of them. Right. But she is stuck in this house with her invalid uncle and her wackadoo little sister.
00:49:44
Speaker
And she's keeping this balance. like She makes all of their meals. They don't order out. she They have you know books from the library and records from the library, but they don't get to go shopping for their own books.
00:49:58
Speaker
She doesn't get to travel. She doesn't have anybody to come in. And she's afraid of letting people into the house because they've given her a reason to be afraid. You know, so she's, she's, you know, Charles appealed to that. Like you're trapped here. I can help free you.
00:50:13
Speaker
I can help. take away this stress from you and give you joy again. And so like, I understand why Constance was tempted by that. I understand why she kind of, he played into those. It's like, there is a little bit of resentment in every caretaker. They don't like, just because we're resentful of our situation doesn't mean we don't love the people we're taking care of, but nobody chooses that.
00:50:41
Speaker
You know what i mean? Nobody chooses to be stuck and trapped there. And Cousin Charles really played into those and really helped to feed those resentments and feed those negative feelings.
00:50:54
Speaker
and And so I understand why she was tempted. But I think you're right, Carrie. I think in the movie, they did her disservice, her character a disservice by by making it look like she was ready to choose Cousin Charles over her own sister. Because no caretaker would do that. No- no loving, you know, family member would ever make that choice. We might want to for a little bit to go away or to have a break or to get seek some respite, but we would never give up the ones that we love for ourselves. There's there's not a selfish bone in people who do that. You know what i mean? so Yeah.
00:51:34
Speaker
And I think it also made like Mary Kat looked much more scary. Yes. And much more controlling. Yeah. Yes. I mean, she's already a little scary.
00:51:47
Speaker
But it made it like times a hundred than what she is in the book. Like the book was giving me like at the end, like this, like, I mean, it's not warm and fuzzy by any means, but for my like weird little heart, it's giving warm and fuzzy because like for the dark and twisted girls out there, because it's just like,
00:52:10
Speaker
Like all like the neighbors, the neighbors, the townspeople are like like almost leaving their own little like talisman and like all these things. All the little offerings. All the little offerings at at the house because of the two sisters that live at this like house that's like kind of destroyed.
00:52:28
Speaker
Or like at the very end of the movie... there's these kids like yelling taunting at the house like oh we're not gonna get we're not gonna see the sisters like you're not gonna see them they're not gonna come out like it's almost like it's haunted by these two sisters and they're taunting the house and then she opens the door and she's out there and they're like running away right because they're terrified and it's just like i don't know like i just liked I just love that so much. And I was like, okay, we didn't need to do all that at the end It's fine. Whatever.
00:53:00
Speaker
i also loved in the book, I feel like Mary Cat was
00:53:08
Speaker
precocious. Mary Cat was, i don't want to say she was innocent. She killed her family. But she, I don't think... she necessarily realized entirely what she was doing when she did it.
00:53:22
Speaker
Because even throughout the book, she talks about, I should be nicer to uncle Julian. I should be nicer to uncle Julian. Almost like she regretted it and he survived. So now I need to be nice to him. Well, that means she would have been 12.
00:53:35
Speaker
Right. She did it. Exactly. So I'm not saying that she didn't know what she was doing, but she definitely, I don't think was aware of the consequences of what she was doing. hey And she, and in her head, she was doing it for the right reasons.
00:53:47
Speaker
You know what I mean? So, but like she hadn't hurt anybody since then. She'd gone into town who knows how many times she's, you know, we, and she even said, we don't hurt anybody. We've never hurt anybody, you know?
00:54:01
Speaker
And so in the book, I kind of felt like here was this kid who made a horrid mistake before they knew what they were doing and was just weird, was just a weird kid. But in the movie, she was creepy AF. She was,
00:54:16
Speaker
Like, wackadoo. I would not let that child go into town by herself. She would not. I loved. First of all, I loved her wardrobe. Right. Loved her wardrobe.
00:54:27
Speaker
I loved the way she walked. The way she walked was crazy. And I loved it. like Like, super stiff. Yeah. And she had, like, yeah she was, like, kind of leaned over and was, like, the way that she walked was just, like, I don't know. I just, like, loved her character.
00:54:43
Speaker
Her character was just like weird. They were very different from the book and the movie, I think. She was just weird. But not in a bad way. Like, each one was great in its own way. Yeah. I can't describe it. I don't know why. Like, this book and this movie, like, it doesn't make sense and it's strange, but it's, like, very good yeah And I don't even think it's rated. Like, it's not rated PG-13 or anything like that. It's not even rated.
00:55:09
Speaker
It's an unrated movie. Like, I tried to look it up. Yeah. And I don't know. I can't even describe it. I wouldn't be i wouldn't even be able to describe it to someone.
00:55:20
Speaker
are like, I wouldn't even know how to recommend it But i just really liked it. Mm-hmm. Well, good. I recommended something that everyone liked.
00:55:33
Speaker
It's honestly a miracle. is. it and its ah So yeah, final verdict. If you want just solely Mary Kat's perspective, just stick with the book.
00:55:46
Speaker
If you want to get a little bit more from each character, watch the movie. yeah All in all, do both. because Do both. yeah Yeah, they are really good. I like both of them.
00:55:57
Speaker
And it's not a super, super long book. No, it's short. Yeah. Yeah. It was a good one. I recommend. Well, with that, we will get into our question of the episode.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
00:56:12
Speaker
In the end, Mary Kat and Constance were stuck with the last library books that they checked out. If you only had access to the last book or series you were reading, what are you stuck with, Crystal?
00:56:27
Speaker
Well, I decided because i don't want to be stuck with the last one books that I read. i really don't.
00:56:36
Speaker
But I have a stack of books that are my physical TBR that I feel like that would be to be stuck with these would not be bad. the it's By India Holt, I have the Ornithologist's Field Guide to Love because that cover is gorgeous.
00:56:56
Speaker
And I love birds. That's what ornithologists are. They study birds. So the Ornithologist's Field Guide to Love and by the same author, the Wisteria Society of Lady Scoundrels.
00:57:06
Speaker
Yeah, I heard that was really good. I've heard it's really good. It's a series. So if I got stuck with that, I wouldn't be mad. um And then I have The House in the Cerulean Sea by T.J. Klune, which is all abuzz everywhere.
00:57:19
Speaker
And I read the first couple of pages, and but I was in so many other books. I was like, no, this one's going to deserve some real attention. So I stopped. Yeah. and then remarkably bright creatures so that's that's my physical tbr that i'd be stuck with for the rest of eternity and i don't think it's a bad one so very pretty yeah they're so aesthetically they they really are it's a lovely stack yeah the house of cerulean tea is really good i love that book is it yeah right i read the first couple of like pages and i was like i'm gonna need to stop so that i can actually really immerse myself in this book yeah
00:57:55
Speaker
It has like a little bit of everything. It's like super cute, but also like really funny. like I have like a million tabs in that book. And I don't know if it's a series or if there are just more books with the same characters.
00:58:07
Speaker
It has a second book it's in the series, but there are other books... In that world. don't know if it's in the same world. They all have like similar looking covers. They do. yeah j so So I'm not sure if they're in the same world. But there is a second book.
00:58:25
Speaker
After that one. We'll be checking that out. Yeah. What about you Carrie? um The one I'm going to be stuck with. If I'm literally only stuck with the one I'm currently reading.
00:58:39
Speaker
Is the player next door. By Tucker. Which is the one I'm reading on my Kindle right I don't want to be stuck with that, honestly. i think it's like a to like a duology or something, but I don't think it's a continuous series. like It's about two different couples.
00:58:59
Speaker
But it's like it's good, but ah like imagine reading that over and over again. Right. That would not be fun. That's why I didn't want to be stuck with the last one. It's a very, it's a very like basic romance. I mean, it is good. It's like a very basic romance and it's about, okay, let me explain.
00:59:19
Speaker
It's about, so these two, this boy and girl were together when they were in high school. Okay. But he broke up with her and then he went and dated her, like the, her arch nemesis that used to like bully her. Okay.
00:59:38
Speaker
Betrayed her. So then she left town, gone for years. Okay. Comes back and she's like, okay, I'm moving back to my hometown. Moves in. He's her neighbor.
00:59:49
Speaker
And he has a kid with the bully.
00:59:53
Speaker
But they've been broken up for like years and years years. Like the kid's like 10 years old. And she's also a teacher. And she he's in the kid's in her class. So it's that that guy is going to be around all the time now.
01:00:08
Speaker
And she has resentment. to her it And he's trying to win her back.
01:00:13
Speaker
Drama. I'm telling you. So much drama. But you know, once you know about it it's like, okay, well, now I know all the drama. I don't want to read it again.
01:00:25
Speaker
Talk about being embarrassed.
01:00:31
Speaker
I guess I'm stuck with Midnight Sun by Stephanie Meyer.
01:00:43
Speaker
Listen, you guys, you can't do that. Listen, I got a whole stack of books over here. Lindsay, when you said that, you're like, i already told Carrie when I was reading. I was like, wait, what did she tell me? I literally cannot remember.
01:00:56
Speaker
oh my gosh, I forgot you said you were going to start reading that. Yes, I kind of said it in passing like a week ago. Oh my gosh, I can't believe. I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on that. That's hilarious.
01:01:10
Speaker
That's going to be great. Yeah. So just like that, our time at Blackwood Estate has come to an end.
01:01:18
Speaker
But don't worry. We've locked the gates behind us. And yeah have we want to hear from you. Let us know your answer to our question of the episode. If you enjoyed this discussion, be sure to follow Based on a Book on all socials.
01:01:33
Speaker
Subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review. helps more than Charles pretending to be charming. of We'll be back next week with our last March mystery.
01:01:45
Speaker
So until then, maybe don't take sugar from strangers. Hey, bye. Bye. Bye.