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Embodying Trust: Intimacy in Modern Circus with Rebecca Johannsen- Circuspreneur Podcast Ep.108
25 Plays4 days ago
#Intimacycoordinator #Intimacychoreographer #CircusArts #Consent #Liveperformance
For More Info:
https://www.rjintimacy.com
On this episode of the Circuspreneur Podcast, host Shenea Stiletto interviews Rebecca Johannsen who is an Intimacy Coordinator and educator specializing in performer safety, consent, and communication across live and filmed entertainment — including circus, theatre, and dance. With a Ph.D. in theatre and decades of experience as a producer, director, and performer, Rebecca brings a collaborative and trauma-informed approach to creating safer rehearsal and performance spaces. She leads the Intimacy Choreography for Live Performance certification program through the Intimacy Professionals Association and has become a trusted advocate for artists working in high-risk and movement-based disciplines. Her work bridges the worlds of performance, psychology, and education — ensuring that creative expression and performer well-being go hand in hand.
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Transcript
Introduction and Platform Promotion
00:00:01
Circuspreneur Podcast
This podcast is also available via stagelink.com, the groundbreaking new platform for live performing arts. Please support the podcast by liking, subscribing, commenting, and tagging the podcast.
00:00:12
Circuspreneur Podcast
It helps us to continue to bring the industry high-level content.
Guest Introduction: Rebecca Johansson
00:00:15
Circuspreneur Podcast
I'm your host, Shanae Stiletto, and my guest on today's Circuspreneur podcast is Intimacy Coordinator, Rebecca Johansson. Rebecca, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:23
Rebecca Johannsen
Thank you for having me.
00:00:24
Circuspreneur Podcast
You are so welcome. It's an absolute pleasure, Rebecca, and I want to let listeners know a little bit about you and your phenomenal work as an intimacy coordinator.
Role and Approach of an Intimacy Coordinator
00:00:35
Circuspreneur Podcast
Rebecca Johansson is an intimacy coordinator and educator specializing in performer safety, consent, and communication across live and filmed entertainment, including circus, theater, and dance. With a PhD in theater and decades of experience as a producer, director, and performer, Rebecca brings a collaborative and trauma-informed approach to creating safer rehearsal and performance spaces,
00:00:54
Circuspreneur Podcast
She leads the Intimacy Choreography for Live Performance Certification Program through the Intimacy Professionals Association and has become a trusted advocate for artists working in high-risk and movement-based disciplines.
00:01:06
Circuspreneur Podcast
Her work bridges the worlds of performance, psychology, and education, ensuring that creative expression and performer well-being go hand-in-hand just like the
Recognition and Unionization of Intimacy Coordinators
00:01:16
Circuspreneur Podcast
circus.
00:01:17
Circuspreneur Podcast
You know, Rebecca, intimacy coordinating is becoming more, i think, popular, like more mainstream, And and to me so intimacy coordinators have had an interesting journey, I would say the past few years with being recognized by SAG-AFTRA and gaining union status.
00:01:33
Circuspreneur Podcast
I have you know come to know about intimacy coordinating over the past you know few years. you know We have a mutual friend in Erin Tillman, who is a fellow intimacy coordinator. And I really appreciate and love the evolution of intimacy coordinators and how involved You have become in film and TV and then branching out into so many other performing arts disciplines, including the circus, because I feel like it can be incredibly, incredibly useful. And we've explored that somewhat on a previous podcast episode with Aaron. But it's, you know, very exciting with you to discuss the aspects of live choreography and live performance.
00:02:09
Circuspreneur Podcast
which is you know kind of specific to circus. We dabble in film and TV, so we're there too, obviously. I'm in SAG myself. But it's a it's a very different ballgame as well in working with such highly contact, intimate spaces like the circus arts. And we don't usually have a lot of folks like yourself involved in our industry that can be quite insular,
00:02:33
Circuspreneur Podcast
And, you know, not have these types of eyes and ears on our industry, but the interest is growing and folks are becoming more and more open to utilizing the impacts, I think, of intimacy coordinating and then also to you know, spaces that.
00:02:48
Circuspreneur Podcast
feel more protected and also to more inclusive and providing spaces and dialogue of, you know, and you know it kind of, I think, replacing, you know, old standards and ways of doing things that made our environments, I think, not the safest and not the safest place to be in doing something that you love to do and also something that's very dangerous.
00:03:12
Circuspreneur Podcast
So, you know, in speaking to that, Rebecca, can you take us a little bit through the, first of all, the journey of unionizing?
00:03:13
Rebecca Johannsen
Thank you.
00:03:20
Circuspreneur Podcast
Because I know that you were a part of that and that was very painstaking for you. We've discussed, you know, how much hard work it took for you all to get those rights and to continue to evolve those rights within the union.
00:03:34
Circuspreneur Podcast
And, you know, can you discuss, I think, like the masterful dynamics behind that?
00:03:40
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the the work of of intimacy coordination as we see it now in the world of film and television really started in the world of live performance with folks developing better language and better practices around creating consent forward environments when it came to intimate touch And during the rise of the Me Too movement, the film industry very quickly realized that they had to do some damage control, I think.
00:04:10
Circuspreneur Podcast
yeah
00:04:11
Rebecca Johannsen
and
00:04:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
oh
00:04:12
Rebecca Johannsen
And so that led to the the first the advent of the first intimacy coordinators in film and television. on And I
Growth and Impact in the Film Industry
00:04:19
Rebecca Johannsen
came to it shortly after that. I trained to do the work in 2020, 2017 being the first year that intimacy coordinators were hired in the in in the film and television industry, which is wild.
00:04:33
Rebecca Johannsen
And we i think that we saw a lot of the growth happen really quickly in that industry because film sets are very highly corporatized now.
00:04:33
Circuspreneur Podcast
wow
00:04:45
Rebecca Johannsen
They are very strongly driven by profit. and and risk assessments. And so I think that it was it was very easy math for the people in the corporate offices to recognize that hiring someone like me to come in and and create a more consent-forward environment on their set was a lot less expensive than settling a sexual harassment lawsuit.
00:05:09
Rebecca Johannsen
And so I think that the the the position really exploded in the film industry and got very highly i organized in that space because of that
00:05:09
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:05:21
Rebecca Johannsen
sort of awareness of the the corporate entities that were producing the projects that we were a lot less expensive than lawsuits. We can't completely eliminate the possibility of lawsuits, but we severely mitigate the risk for them.
00:05:36
Rebecca Johannsen
And so we we've made those those those gains very quickly. We are also in the beginning, there were not very many of us. So it was very easy for us to be able to stand united with one another and to to sort of form a strong line, hold the line on on what we were willing to accept in terms of our deal points, in terms of our rates, in terms of our benefits.
00:06:01
Rebecca Johannsen
And we, because of that correlation between risk mitigation i and am the potential of preventing a lawsuit, it was really easy for film production companies to see us the same way they saw stunt coordinators.
00:06:19
Rebecca Johannsen
And
00:06:19
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:06:19
Rebecca Johannsen
Stunt coordinators had a very long, very hard battle to get union recognition. But the fact that there was already a template in place for how they did it made made the argument, I think, a lot easier at the end of the day.
00:06:24
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yes.
00:06:34
Rebecca Johannsen
it was It was challenging, though, because you know we we started getting more and more people getting trained to do the work i you know in the beginning People wondered why we weren't mandatory in on film productions.
00:06:48
Rebecca Johannsen
And when I started doing this, there literally were not enough of us trained to do the work to meet that demand.
00:06:49
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yeah.
00:06:55
Rebecca Johannsen
And now, thankfully, that's changed. we've been We've been training folks at the organization I teach for, Intimacy Professionals Association, There are several other organizations that are recognized by SAG-AFTRA that train intimacy coordinators.
00:07:09
Rebecca Johannsen
And so it was a really sort of natural flow. But we also had a lot of new voices in the room that we had to bring to the table to to recognize on what their input was over joining the union.
00:07:25
Rebecca Johannsen
And then we had a strike, but right? if We were ready to announce we were we were going to go to a vote to try and join the union. That's when the strike happened in 2023. And then so we had to wait for that. And then we had to wait for the the next round of negotiations for the other unions in the film industry.
00:07:42
Rebecca Johannsen
And then in in November of 2024, we finally won our right to to take a vote in the U.S. to join SAG-AFTRA. And we successfully joined. And now we're in the the negotiation process for our contracts.
00:07:57
Circuspreneur Podcast
Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. Even with all of the hiccups and waiting it out, you know, I think it's really extraordinary. I think it's also really important, especially within the circus industry and performing arts, that intimacy coordinators do have that union status and union backing. It's not something that we have or that we interact with a lot in the circus arts industry.
00:08:20
Circuspreneur Podcast
And so knowing that you are bringing that level of credibility and that level of accountability, that you are also held accountable to a standard and not simply, and I'm not saying this is bad, but just simply a certification program is also very valuable and important because that can, I think, be a challenging aspect within the circus is that so much of the circus arts is not accredited.
00:08:24
Rebecca Johannsen
Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
00:08:44
Circuspreneur Podcast
And so, you know, there are a lot of certification programs and a lot of things that, you know, folks would like there to be a more solidified, lawful standard and credibility to people holding these positions.
00:08:54
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah.
00:08:56
Circuspreneur Podcast
And so, you know, in terms of bringing that perspective, you know, you and I discussed how important it is to have an outside influence in environments like the performing arts, like the arts,
00:09:07
Circuspreneur Podcast
you know, like the circus arts and how it's great having folks that have been around for a long time that have perspective. And even if they're, you know, trying to speak a new level of terminology, that's also very important. We want that. But it's also, like we were saying before this call, really important to have outside eyes that bring fresh perspective. And I think also to determine or see nuances that it's maybe challenging to see them with new eyes when you've been a part of it for so long and maybe things that can be holding you back. And you guys are going through such verifiable programs.
00:09:40
Circuspreneur Podcast
You guys, you have such amazing backgrounds. Prior to becoming intimacy coordinators, you're not just really popping out of nowhere. And I really like that aspect about how you vet folks to become to do your certification program, you ask that they have quite a bit of experience, you have a very deep vetting process, so that it's folks that have that, you know, I think that that intimate experience, that vast, deep knowledge for folks will trust you and feel like you're coming to the table with a lot of weight underneath your belt.
00:09:52
Rebecca Johannsen
Mm-hmm.
00:10:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
So can you speak to to that, Rebecca?
00:10:13
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. in the In the early days of this work, we we oftentimes referred to it as being in the Wild West. There there were there there but it was like a hyper awareness that it was a desperately needed position, but there wasn't a whole lot of i've sort of structure to who was qualified, how how
00:10:22
Circuspreneur Podcast
Like the circus.
00:10:29
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:10:38
Rebecca Johannsen
how they got trained, how there was background, how they had the who who had the right background for this sort of work. And there were a lot of people who were very drawn to doing this work because they had experienced some kind of trauma in the past while while performing.
00:10:54
Rebecca Johannsen
and
00:10:54
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:10:56
Rebecca Johannsen
I have several of my my colleagues that i that are absolutely fantastic at this job do have that in their background, but they had done the work to recover from that trauma.
00:11:06
Rebecca Johannsen
And there were a lot of folks who were jumping right into the work coming from that space of trauma who hadn't healed from it and were actually causing more harm than they were preventing. And I think there was a very quick, i very sudden response from the union to make sure like entering into conversation around, okay, what does make someone qualified for this work?
00:11:27
Rebecca Johannsen
And they spoke with a lot of different people. They put together some conversations. They created what they what they called a registry of qualified intimacy coordinators that had met a certain level of training standard,
00:11:40
Rebecca Johannsen
and that they had had a certain level of experience within the film industry and and a certain level of experience as an intimacy coordinator on film sets.
00:11:51
Rebecca Johannsen
And it wasn't perfect. We are rethinking it now, but it was it was done in reaction to creating a stop gap to just sort of make sure that producers had a resource out there when they knew they needed to hire someone that they were hiring someone who had at least met like a minimum standard of of training.
00:12:08
Rebecca Johannsen
And then SAG-AFTRA
Responsibilities and Misconceptions
00:12:09
Rebecca Johannsen
also looked at the curriculum of all of the different certification programs that are that were being offered and then certified them based on on the content of their programs.
00:12:19
Rebecca Johannsen
So that was a very quick reaction to trying to prevent any harm from happening and to make sure that the people who were doing the work were properly trained.
00:12:30
Rebecca Johannsen
The organization that I train people with, Intimacy Professionals Association, does a, like it's like a four and a half month long intensive certification program where we go above and beyond what SAG-AFTRA requires us to teach people.
00:12:41
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:12:46
Rebecca Johannsen
And we we really make sure that we do a deep dive interview process with all the candidates. We have some very targeted questions that we make them answer in order to to get a stronger sense of why they really want to do this work. And after you five years of doing those interviews, i i've I've got it down to a science.
00:13:08
Rebecca Johannsen
who's Who's the right fit for this kind of work? Because I think also with with all the headlines that the role has made, a lot of people are drawn to it because they think it's going to be sexy or it's going to be fun.
00:13:14
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:13:19
Rebecca Johannsen
And it's... It can be fun. It can be fun from time to time, but it is very, very, very hard work. and And most of the time you are spending walking into rooms with very powerful people who don't like to be told no, and it's your job to tell them no.
00:13:37
Rebecca Johannsen
Not everybody's cut for that.
00:13:40
Circuspreneur Podcast
Oh yeah. I can only imagine. I think, you know, when we were speaking previously, you said that when you are in the room, everyone is on their best behavior and that's a good thing and a, and a not great thing at the same time, because it's like, you know, when you're there, you know, the uneasiness I would say, or think, and, you know, coming as, you know, as a survivor of USA Gymnastics and someone who's been advocating in this, these spaces for survivors,
00:13:53
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah.
00:14:06
Circuspreneur Podcast
for a long time. I know what it's like to feel like that too when you walk into the room. People are like, oh, they're monitoring things on a very different level. What do they see? What are they going to think?
00:14:17
Circuspreneur Podcast
you know Are they you know going to just kind of go around and police everybody? And What do you say to folks that say that this is type a type of like overt policing of creativity or of artistry or that you're like killing the mood or that you are like killing people's ability to spontaneously you know produce you know to to their heart's desire?
00:14:42
Circuspreneur Podcast
like
00:14:43
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah.
00:14:43
Circuspreneur Podcast
What do you think about that?
00:14:45
Rebecca Johannsen
Oh, I mean, the the line that I have said more times in my career as an intimacy coordinator than I can count is I am not here to be the sex police. And in fact, that's one of the things that
00:14:54
Circuspreneur Podcast
unless you want me to be. and i sorry.
00:14:55
Rebecca Johannsen
it But I mean, in fact, like one of the questions that we that we get into when we're interviewing candidates, we want to make sure that they're not that that they're super comfortable with sexuality and with intimacy, because we we are.
00:15:08
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:15:09
Rebecca Johannsen
Yes, we are there to create an environment of care where it's it's consent forward, where no is always an option for the performer, that that no one feels like they're goingnna be pressured into doing anything that they don't want to do.
00:15:22
Rebecca Johannsen
But what I find is that when. When performers feel that level of of care is being taken to create that environment for them to create these scenes, there're they're able to relax into it a little bit more and to actually act rather than worry about, oh my gosh, is my co-star you know going to stick their tongue down my throat when I don't want them to?
00:15:44
Rebecca Johannsen
Because we've already had that conversation and we've already talked about exactly what what's on what what their boundaries are, what's okay to touch, what's not okay to touch. all of that is handled so that when they are in the room, they can let loose and they can really be creative and be in the moment because they know their scene partner is not going to touch them in a way that they don't want to be touched or they won't accidentally touch someone the way that they don't want to be touched. And when when performers and when directors lean into that that process, I find that it looks so much better.
00:16:20
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah. And I'm also there to make sure that it looks good too. So like help you help you make an adjustment with your movement to make it look like you're really good at sex.
00:16:24
Circuspreneur Podcast
yeah
00:16:30
Rebecca Johannsen
Like I don't know a single performer that wouldn't want that. Yeah.
00:16:34
Circuspreneur Podcast
I mean, Oscar worthy. We're like, you know, we're Oscar Emmy golden globe worthy.
00:16:35
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah. why
00:16:39
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right.
00:16:40
Rebecca Johannsen
And, you know, it's it's it's part of the way that we approach the work is is to be able to create that environment of care so that, yeah, I said people are always on their best behavior when I'm there, but they also feel like they can confide in me if they've seen something that they that that they're not happy with or that they are concerned about.
00:16:58
Rebecca Johannsen
Or they can, if they don't feel as comfortable setting their own boundaries, then they can they know they can come to me and I know how to set that boundary for them with the director in a way that's not going to make the director upset at the performer.
00:17:12
Rebecca Johannsen
and And I think that that, more often than not, I find that everyone on on a set when I'm there, yeah, they are on their best behavior, but they're also relieved that
00:17:12
Circuspreneur Podcast
Right.
00:17:23
Rebecca Johannsen
that I'm there and that they aren't going to, like the chances of them witnessing something that makes them feel deeply unsettled are far less if I'm there to make sure that everything's handled with a level of professionalism that it needs to be handled with.
00:17:37
Circuspreneur Podcast
Yes. I, you know, I agree with that too. And, you know, some sometimes change is challenging, right? Because things have been defined for so long in a certain kind of way. And we saw that, you know, even in the sports world and with the creation of the US s Center for Safe Sport and now with our policy efforts to expand that into a safe art and safe circus to have increased boundaries and defined regulations for the arts and you know introducing and having more folks like you that are intimacy coordinators. And you know we've used a couple of different terms.
00:18:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
There's you know certain things that they have in SafeSport that are not similar, but you know the wording of such is similar to, for example, FedEx. We've discussed you know the spotting guideline that they came out with, and that's very similar and adaptive to the US Center for Safe Sport Policy, which I've helped to define and helped to define even recently in amending that and making it better. But I think there's so many of these tools that are useful in art. And again, it's not something that happens overnight, but it's definitely things that folks are seeking and looking for. And I think sometimes you just don't know what you need until you have it. And I love the fact that you're saying that you can relax into what you do because in circus, it's so high risk.
00:18:51
Circuspreneur Podcast
It's so high energy. you are sometimes afraid to say things because your safety depends on the people that are, you know, porting you that you're doing, you know, so skills with. It's not just beyond, it's not just about losing access to your job or to your career, but you know, we've seen abusive tactics in that way where folks may not catch you properly because they are not happy with you.
00:19:15
Circuspreneur Podcast
They might not support you in those ways or you know Again, in terms of spotting and being abusive in that way and taking advantage, if you're in an environment that feels a little bit too open or a little bit too, I would say, unregulated or you know is not like an overtly verified space, which is very, very common in circus where there can be a lot of blurred lines, especially now there's a lot of new innovative spaces.
00:19:26
Rebecca Johannsen
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:19:38
Circuspreneur Podcast
in circus all over the world. There's folks that are very new to the industry that are very excited to be here, but in some ways a bit naive. And you can get taken advantage of, I think, quite easily when you're new to something that you love and that's so interesting and so exciting, very similar to film and TV.
00:19:55
Circuspreneur Podcast
Folks, I think, don't always have their guard up or have a defense mechanism or the language. And I find that, you know, inserting this level of accountability through language and then through also a responsible individual there, i think could solve a lot of issues moving forward, you know, as we've seen in the sporting world.
00:20:12
Rebecca Johannsen
Mm-hmm.
00:20:14
Circuspreneur Podcast
And like you're saying as well, redefining that doesn't just happen through one version or mandate. It's something that evolves over time. Sometimes you get things right. Sometimes you get things wrong. Sometimes there are things that you have to maybe pull back. I mean, we've been amending safe sport policy now for eight to nine years.
00:20:33
Circuspreneur Podcast
So, you know, for the folks that think like this is something that can overstep, sometimes, yes, things overstep and then you you
Focus on Policy and Industry Expansion
00:20:39
Circuspreneur Podcast
pull it back and you figure out new ways forward. So in terms of, you know, circus arts, Rebecca, the adaptation of this seems obviously to me very, very seamless. I mean, there are nuances to circus as well that, you know, you're continuing to understand and learn. You know, we've discussed how, You have been inside of the circus industry, but you're seeking to be more involved and to learn more and then to also have more folks that want to take the program and that want to understand you know the dynamics and the the true elements of what it means to be an intimacy choreographer and intimacy coordinator. And so in doing that, what of the you know what are the things that you're most interested in learning more about the industry where you feel like you could be most beneficial?
00:21:22
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah, yeah. And so I, you mentioned at the top, i I do, I am the lead instructor and I created a program through Intimacy Professionals Association called Intimacy Choreography for Live Performance.
00:21:34
Rebecca Johannsen
It's very similar to our, foundationally, to our film and television program, but it's meant for folks in live performance. And I i developed the the concept for it during the strike when there was no work and and was i was training a group of folks in the film industry and and I was really loving getting back into my my roots as an instructor because i've I've spent a lot of time as a teacher and in theater programs.
00:21:45
Circuspreneur Podcast
yeah
00:21:58
Rebecca Johannsen
And i so I started collaborating with a lot of few different folks that had been doing this work in the theater. And then one of my my colleagues in Europe, who is also a dancer, who is trying to incorporate this work into the dance world.
00:22:12
Rebecca Johannsen
and And then we we had a brainstorming session where we just started talking about all of the different places where this could be applicable. Because, you know, as I mentioned, the film industry, it it sort of blew up overnight because of how highly how how highly risk averse the corporations that are making film are, but also because we have such strong union regulations.
00:22:34
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:22:34
Rebecca Johannsen
But there are so many spaces of live performance that do not have any of that kind of protection built in place.
00:22:41
Rebecca Johannsen
And, and so my, my colleague in Europe said, we could do everything. We could do dance. We could do opera. We could do ballet. We can do, we can do circus. Circus would be so amazing. And I, i got a fire lit under me and I just started doing a real deep dive into, into the circus world. And I've been engaged in conversations with several folks in the world, learning more about it.
00:23:05
Rebecca Johannsen
I do have a very dear friend who's an aerialist in Las Vegas, and and spoke with her about her experiences. I've been reaching out to everyone to to get to know more about what the circus world is, where you're at with these conversations, and and how sort of the process works of developing a circus piece.
00:23:26
Rebecca Johannsen
But my my interest is really in changing... policy and changing structures and not just, you know, laws, but also like internal policies within organizations coming in and getting them to see like what what sort of on a policy level can you institute? Because if you just have someone like me come in on an individual production,
00:23:49
Rebecca Johannsen
but no one is aware of how to work with me, or or if there is a sexual harassment claim that happens, how does that properly get handled within the institution? Like people don't know how to handle that.
00:24:01
Rebecca Johannsen
Then there's very little that yeah impact that I can have in the in the moment in a rehearsal. But going in and working with folks on sort of looking at what what they're doing from a policy level in terms of creating a consent forward environment with their artists,
00:24:16
Rebecca Johannsen
And then I really want to train people to do the work who are already in that world. so So people who are circus performers performers and artists who who want to make an impact within their own industry, they know more about how it's created and how how the power structures work within that space than I ever will.
00:24:36
Rebecca Johannsen
And they also speak the language that I will not know how to speak. And they will also know how to take the the resources that I teach them and adapt them to those spaces to make them work for that particular kind of of process of creating.
00:24:50
Rebecca Johannsen
And so I've i've trained a bunch of folks, particularly a lot of folks in the dance world that are still learning what that new language is, because like circus, dance is so connected to the body and touch of the body is is part of the point.
00:24:55
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:25:06
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah. the art So so do you sort of create these consent forward environments?
00:25:07
Circuspreneur Podcast
yeah
00:25:13
Rebecca Johannsen
So that's that's what i'm I'm really interested in doing is is working on on a sort of macro level of helping to change the way people think about how they're creating these these artistic spaces and then training people to to do the the day-to-day work on the inside that already know what that world looks like.
00:25:32
Rebecca Johannsen
Okay.
00:25:39
Rebecca Johannsen
Mm-hmm.
00:25:44
Circuspreneur Podcast
Instead of saying, here, I'm going to come and blanket and tell everyone this is the new standard. This is the way that it should be. And if you're not doing it like this, you're wrong. And you know, you're breaking this, this, this, this and this.
00:25:57
Circuspreneur Podcast
Especially when you're and you're coming into an environment. I, you know, I've discussed this with other folks saying, you know, circus can feel very insular and you know, very insulated away, you know, from other folks that are trying to get in, you know, like, how do I get in?
00:26:11
Circuspreneur Podcast
How do I get inside of this industry that is much more about who you know, does not have those outside structures and doesn't even utilize outside structures that we have access to.
00:26:11
Rebecca Johannsen
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:26:22
Circuspreneur Podcast
You know, most companies and spaces don't have HRs, even if they're supposed to. They don't, you know, folks don't use the EEOC or don't even know that they could or don't have access, you know, like we know so many different spaces. Again, don't really have access to really anything. And so i think, you know, creating these opportunities to support where there are those gaps is so essential while we continue to build out the framework of getting more things and structures in place. You know, maybe one day, you know, SAG will expand to include more of the circus arts outside of just
00:26:54
Circuspreneur Podcast
you know film and TV, which is something that you know we have been looking into and then that can support the industry in more ways as well. But building, I think, a stronger foundation with folks that are interested in seeking a new way and we're having more and more of those conversations within the circus arts you know here in America and then all over the world internationally. People are doing the research and getting the feedback as well. And people, I think, are willing to speak more on their experiences. you know I would say these last like five years have had some really you know, revolutionary conversations in our industry where folks understand that, you know, we need to work to create safer spaces within an industry that can sometimes feel like the wild, wild west, even in its corporatized version. So,
00:27:38
Circuspreneur Podcast
In leaving us, you know, in the last minute or so of the podcast, Rebecca, what would you like to leave the circus industry
Training for Adaptability and Flexibility
00:27:44
Circuspreneur Podcast
with? You know, you've discussed so beautifully. i think you've given a very well-rounded perspective of what intimacy coordinating is, intimacy choreography is, and then also to how you see yourself as a change agent. within our industry by working in tandem with our industry and not necessarily just trying to overwhelm it and change you know the overall approach to how circus ticks, but innovating, I think, the model, which is a very good and progressive thing.
00:28:14
Rebecca Johannsen
Yeah, yeah. I think one of the first things that i teach my students when I teach them about this work is no no two rehearsal rooms you walk into are going to be the same. No two performers are going to be the same.
00:28:27
Rebecca Johannsen
no environment is gonna be the same. And I like to train to lead in with flexibility and adaptability to the spaces that you find yourself in. Because you know this work, it's not the right approach does not, like one particular approach doesn't work every single time.
00:28:44
Rebecca Johannsen
for every single environment. And something that that I've been speaking to a lot of folks about in various worlds where this is new, where it isn't really as well established as it is in film, is you know I come from an educator's background. I speak to a lot of educators now who are leading in some of the top training programs in a lot of different of the performing arts, and they are learning from from the new world that we are living in around consent forward environments.
00:29:13
Rebecca Johannsen
They are now shifting the way that they're training young people in those school environments to be more more respectful of boundaries and to have boundaries prioritized over over breaking someone of their boundaries, which was sort of an old method of creating an artist.
00:29:30
Rebecca Johannsen
And you when I've spoken to a lot of folks that are in the administrative roles in in these arts organizations, I really want to get across to them that you are going to have an entire generation of new artists over the next few years that are going to be coming from these learning institutions who are going to be trained by some of the best people and they're going to be the faces of your your industries.
00:29:54
Rebecca Johannsen
And they are going to be met with an old school way of doing things that is not in harmony with the way that their schools are now training them that the environment should work.
00:29:59
Circuspreneur Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:30:04
Rebecca Johannsen
So you either need to figure out how to create an environment that welcomes those artists into it, or you risk losing an entire generation of talent.
00:30:15
Rebecca Johannsen
And that's as simple as it is. It's a new world. it It's not going back. And you can adapt and move forward, or you can lose out on potential talent.
00:30:26
Circuspreneur Podcast
Beautifully said, Rebecca. Thank you so much for coming on to the Circuspreneur podcast. You're so fantastic. And I look forward to seeing you more in the circus arts industry and listeners.
00:30:39
Circuspreneur Podcast
The Circuspreneur podcast is also available on stagelink.com, S-T-A-G-E-L-Y-N-C t a g e l y n c dot c o m The groundbreaking new platform for live performing arts that provides unmatched to access and connection to this vibrant world of shows and entertainment.
00:30:52
Circuspreneur Podcast
If you're a professional in the performing arts, visit stagelink.com slash pro. Stagelink Pro, S-T-A-G-E-L-Y-N-C-P-R-O offers industry professionals higher visibility, networking opportunities, and tools to support and enhance their careers. Until next time, everyone, I'm your host, Sinead Stiletto. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode, and please stay tuned for the next episode of the Circuspreneur Podcast.