Transcript
Circuspreneur Podcast : This podcast is also available stagelink.com, the groundbreaking new platform for live performing arts. Please support the podcast by liking, subscribing, commenting, and tagging the podcast. It helps us to continue to bring the industry high-level content.
Circuspreneur Podcast : I'm your host, Shanae Stiletto, and my guest on today's Circus for Neuro podcast is founder of Athletic Science, Dr. Stephanie Greenspan. Welcome to the podcast, Stephanie.
Stephanie Greenspan: Thank you so much for having me.
Circuspreneur Podcast : You're so welcome. I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today, finally, to discuss all of the amazing efforts that you are making on behalf of the circus arts industry. And for listeners out there, a little bit about Dr. Stephanie.
Circuspreneur Podcast : She earned her Doctor of Physical Therapy from you the University of Southern California. Her postgraduate training included residencies in orthopedic and neurologic physical therapy and a fellowship in orthopedic manual therapy. She is a board certified specialist in both orthopedic and neurologic physical therapy and an associate professor of physical therapy at Samuel Merritt University.
Circuspreneur Podcast : As a clinician, she works with recreational to professional dancers and circus artists with a focus on decreasing injury risk and optimizing performance. This includes working as a physio for the resident seven finger show, Deer San Francisco at Club Fugazi since its installation in 2021.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Stephanie brings her background as a dancer, aerialist, aerial coach, and researcher into her clinical practice. practice. Phenomenal. And I am super, super thrilled and honored to be joining Stephanie at this upcoming Performing Arts Medicine Association conference in Washington, D.C.
Circuspreneur Podcast : at the beginning of July. And then we will also be together on a panel at the International Dance Medicine Conference in Las Vegas at the end of September of this year. i'm just thrilled to be included, Stephanie, in this amazing work and like panel that you've assembled at these conferences in representing the circus arts. And I think, again, representing the circus arts in a unique way, and which in ways that were not typically represented.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um But I feel like it's becoming more and more because of academics and researchers and advocates like yourself. And so can you tell listeners a bit about our panel?
Circuspreneur Podcast : It will be, um the first one will be all women, which I also think is really, really special and really cool.
Stephanie Greenspan: Yes.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um But about the abstract and what that means in terms of what we are presenting, um the combination on my side, i will be presenting as a circus artist, which is unusual and sometimes a bit rare in settings like this, um coupled with doctors and academics like yourself.
Circuspreneur Podcast : And then I'll also to be presenting circus arts policy and legislation, which I am, again, really excited to have that element um introduced into a space like that, that is so kind of, you know, I mean, it's quite something um bringing, I think, all of those worlds together. And I think it's a necessary development. So I'm really excited that you are the driving force behind that, Stephanie.
Stephanie Greenspan: Well, thank you. we We are also thrilled to have you join us. And I think it's so important that the artist's voice is represented. And um often you're right, we don't necessarily hear from artists unless the artists are also the researcher or healthcare care professional.
Stephanie Greenspan: And so they're in that role um and speaking from past experience.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Amen.
Stephanie Greenspan: So i think... um you represent an artist's voice, but also so much more in and the advocacy work that you do. So I don't think there could be any more perfect person to join us and talk about the work that you're doing because In settings like these, so the Performing Arts Medicine Association, International Association of Dance Medicine, um it's hard to to get circus represented, just like we're not represented adequately with the National Endowment of the Arts, um which you're working to change.
Stephanie Greenspan: um So despite, yeah, despite how many circus artists there are in the United States and across the world,
Circuspreneur Podcast : Hopefully.
Stephanie Greenspan: um We just aren't represented in the same way as other arts forms. luckily with PAMA, um there has been more ah more content related to circus in the past few years, which is exciting to see.
Stephanie Greenspan: And so our intent ah with bringing this panel to both places and the dance medicine community as well as the overall performing arts community is to share some of the research work that we're doing and create more awareness about the guidelines that we've been producing.
Stephanie Greenspan: So in particular, we're talking about a group that we call CERC,
Circuspreneur Podcast : you
Stephanie Greenspan: which stands for um Surveillance um for Injuries um for ah ahiess for Research on um And so we are a collaborative group of researchers, um some of which similar to me. So our healthcare professionals, others are mainly researchers in performance and health and wellness.
Stephanie Greenspan: Um, So we came together after actually meeting a number of us at the International Association of Dance Medicine Conference in Montreal.
Stephanie Greenspan: um And that's how our group sort of got to know each other. And um we decided to develop a working group. And so the mission of the group is to improve research on circus arts. We're bit behind, to say the least, compared to other performing arts and compared to sports.
Stephanie Greenspan: So anytime we're looking at the health of circus artists, we're typically pulling from sports research or dance research and trying to apply it to circus, even though circus is unique in many ways.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Greenspan: um So we're trying to improve the quality of the research that's out there. So one of the things that we'll be talking about at the conferences is a guideline for injury surveillance, because until we have a good sense of what injuries are happening in the circus arts,
Stephanie Greenspan: um across a variety of settings and populations from recreational to pre-professional to professional, it's hard to then assess accurately if interventions to prevent injuries are effective um or what we need to prioritize in those different environments.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank you.
Stephanie Greenspan: So that's where our work started. And then um we will, we, our next, um, project was around mental health because unfortunately um the international association the, excuse me, international Olympic committee, whose guidelines we built on and extended them to a circus setting didn't include mental health in their, their injury surveillance.
Circuspreneur Podcast : friends
Stephanie Greenspan: um But they did have a separate guideline for that. And so we tried ah again to make a guideline around what we knew, in the mental health realm and are soon to publish a narrative review around that. But unfortunately, we have even less research in the circus arts around mental health, um which makes it really hard to advocate for those services. So um I think as an as an art form in the US,
Stephanie Greenspan: um you know, practicing in a dance medicine environment, in a circus arts environment, we have a lot less healthcare professional presence in those circus arts environments. And so, but if we do, they're typically a physical therapist or athletic trainer.
Stephanie Greenspan: We rarely see mental health professionals in the way that you would see in professional sport and other environments. And so we really need to show the need for those services and advocate because we know things like anxiety and depression are more prevalent in circus art. we need to have that support for our artists because we want them to thrive.
Stephanie Greenspan: um And they can't do that if we're not taking good care of them. um So that that's that's the intent behind this mental health crisis. work that we're doing first to bring forth the research around the need and also around hopefully someday about best practice in that area.
Stephanie Greenspan: um But we also wanted to show that participating in circus arts can help mental health as well.
Circuspreneur Podcast : you
Stephanie Greenspan: and show that positive side of it. And then the third big piece that we'll be talking about in conference is the new concussion guideline that just came out a couple weeks ago.
Stephanie Greenspan: um and so that guideline is aimed to help both the non-healthcare practitioner to recognize concussion in the circus arts and manage it appropriately um when it happens, and which essentially means pulling people out. We often um will be ah we'll We'll see that um someone might notice something happened, but they might consider it not too bad because the symptoms don't seem too bad and initially. And so people keep going.
Stephanie Greenspan: Or other times, maybe symptoms are kind of bad, but they're afraid of getting pulled out of a show. So they continue on despite having a concussion. um And again, we don't have health care providers on site for for artists to consult and to guide them.
Stephanie Greenspan: So often concussions get missed and people continue to participate, which puts them at risk of another musculoskeletal injury, they're at a higher risk for that if they're continuing to participate with a concussion. And then um also, if they have another head impact before they've recovered, they can have much more severe symptoms and their concussion symptoms can last a lot longer.
Stephanie Greenspan: So we really want to pull people out and get them to a healthcare care provider quickly because that's what's been shown to help people recover the fastest from concussion. So that was our number one goal with a concussion guideline. And the second is there's fantastic sports guidelines out there for a return from concussion, but they don't make sense in circus.
Stephanie Greenspan: and because the progression back to sport has to do with non-contact versus full contact. doesn't have to do with spinning or hanging upside down or being thrown in the air and caught. um And so ah we also made a circus-specific progression that breaks down the different disciplines within the circus arts and talks about how you would progress someone from what we call a low risk to a moderate to high risk activity, and then um If they're performing, that's another layer um to progress back to because you've got lighting, you've got cues, you've got learning choreography, um you've got a a lot of environmental contextual things also to manage going back from concussions. So and the guideline is meant for both the coaches and facilities, but also for the health care providers to enhance the care of our circus artists.
Stephanie Greenspan: So those are the the pieces that we'll be talking about. And so we're relying on you to make it real um and share, share like why this is needed, why we're doing what we're doing.
Circuspreneur Podcast : but
Stephanie Greenspan: and But there's really so, so much more that we have to do.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thanks.
Circuspreneur Podcast : it's It's so amazing. And there's so much, you know, research and energy that you've all put into this. And again, like you're saying, so much that needs to be done, so much support that needs to be invested and so much support that needs to be done to harness all of your research.
Circuspreneur Podcast : What hands or I would say, like, what do you want to accomplish, Stephanie, by coming to these conferences? What is what is the solution there in terms of being successful?
Circuspreneur Podcast : supported and being uplifted in these conferences um in terms of like the connections that you're making within the performing arts world. Because most of the time folks are really surprised to see how little representation circus arts has in the arts world. I mean, we say don't even get us started outside of the circus arts, um or but within it, we're also such a minority in that way to use that word. It still kind of is, even though I feel like we are the artistic majority. Yeah.
Circuspreneur Podcast : I do feel like even there has been, i would say circus is still kind of like a baby in the modern evolution of it at this point in time.
Stephanie Greenspan: so
Circuspreneur Podcast : And maybe that's why, because it's probably had, I think probably the fastest exponential growth of any other art form in probably like the last 20 or 30 years. Right. you know, outside of, again, dance and the traditional art forms.
Stephanie Greenspan: hunt
Circuspreneur Podcast : um But what do you think, what is the goal for being a part of these different conferences? And then what is it also to the pipeline that you feel, you know, for the research to be supported and harnessed in these environments to amplify it? Like, why is it important? Yeah.
Stephanie Greenspan: Yeah, so I'm going to bring up two points to kind of lead into that. And one, in the United States, I think probably part of our challenge in the circus arts is we're not represented in the universities.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Greenspan: So you have um degree programs in dance and theater um and music, but we I think we have one now in the circus arts, right?
Circuspreneur Podcast : Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Greenspan: so And it's not within a university setting, a typical university setting. And in academia, that's where research happens, right?
Stephanie Greenspan: And representation happens.
Circuspreneur Podcast : d
Stephanie Greenspan: So that I think that's part of our visibility problem in the United States. It's different elsewhere in the world from that standpoint.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Greenspan: um The other piece um that I actually, in going to one of the regional PAMA conferences that I realized is when you look at um like financial tax information and you file your occupation, it's another place. There's nowhere to write circus.
Stephanie Greenspan: So we don't have a good way in the U S of counting how many people work in our industry.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Mm-hmm.
Circuspreneur Podcast : all right
Stephanie Greenspan: We know we, we contribute, we know we're there, but we don't have a good way. Cause we end up just like in the national endowment, the arts and the and in the other category. so So that's a piece of our problem with representation.
Stephanie Greenspan: and so part of going to these conferences where sometimes we don't quite fit, you know, where we, we do have dance within circus, but sometimes, ah you know, we're not accepted to present at the conference because we're not dance.
Stephanie Greenspan: Right. So we don't quite fit, but we don't have our own conference either.
Circuspreneur Podcast : right
Stephanie Greenspan: um so part of that is, um, When our circus artists go out and they're looking for clinicians that understand them as an artist, um if they can't find someone who understands circus, the next best place to go is to someone else who works within performing arts and dance, because at least they understand that context and that rhythm of work and training and performance um that someone who's more in a support setting might quite not quite get.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank you.
Stephanie Greenspan: um So we want to help those practitioners to also be able to treat circus artists in addition to the other performing arts, um performing artists that they work with.
Stephanie Greenspan: So that's one reason. So to expand um the knowledge and and create more healthcare care practitioners that are prepared to effectively work with circus artists.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Oh.
Stephanie Greenspan: um and the The other is is partly learning from those other people because in some ways, in many ways, like dance is ahead of us. You know, if you look at how many research studies are done on injuries in dance, um it's hundreds.
Stephanie Greenspan: You know, we're getting better in circus, but we still we we haven't gotten to those those, you know, hundreds of articles yet for circus
Circuspreneur Podcast : and
Stephanie Greenspan: circus injuries. So we have a lot of work to do. So um that that ability to network and learn from how dance medicine or sports medicine is conducting research or the way that they're trying to decrease injury risk in their settings, the way they're trying to address mental health.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank
Stephanie Greenspan: um we We do want to try to take some of those lessons and see if those fit for the circus arts. Um, so that's another important reason to be there and network with colleagues and, and develop collaborations.
Stephanie Greenspan: Um, so, and you know, the, I would say the third piece is you publish things, um, you work very hard to get things published. It takes a long time.
Stephanie Greenspan: Um, but there's, there's only a certain audience that's going to see it. Um,
Circuspreneur Podcast : yeah
Stephanie Greenspan: So people that subscribe to a certain journal or someone that follows someone on social media that that is involved in that work. um So we're we're trying to, again, just disseminate because um any any type of research, it takes a long time after it's published for it to actually become common knowledge.
Stephanie Greenspan: And so that's that's a big problem. um And so we're looking at ways... um to to reach different audiences and reach different people who need that information. So both from the research and the healthcare professional side, but we also want to go out and work with our circus community. And I think the the place where I'm learning that we're really, really missing is our administrators.
Stephanie Greenspan: ah
Circuspreneur Podcast : Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Greenspan: I think our coaches and our artists are becoming more knowledgeable about health and wellness, but
Circuspreneur Podcast : the
Stephanie Greenspan: Then when they go out and work, it's up to them to provide those services for themselves oftentimes.
Circuspreneur Podcast : yeah
Stephanie Greenspan: um and And our artists are not making an amazing living. So, you know, they're already they're already stretched.
Circuspreneur Podcast : but Unfortunately.
Stephanie Greenspan: And so for them to have to take that burden on on top of that is is really, really tough. So until we do a better job of educating the administrators and the people that ah make the decisions about applying for grants and whether or not to include healthcare services in grants.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank
Stephanie Greenspan: And that's something I think that's more common in dance that we don't see happening and in circus companies. um And until they also see the value of having um having healthcare services for their artists and beyond just having health insurance, and because it's different, you know,
Stephanie Greenspan: from general healthcare care to have someone that understands what you do and when you're injured that you need to get back to work quickly or you don't earn a living.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Right.
Stephanie Greenspan: um And knowing how to do that in the context of of the circus arts is important.
Circuspreneur Podcast : i
Stephanie Greenspan: So those get allowing people to see those practitioners. um And there's some great examples in dance. they're therere They're a bit dated at this point, but um Boston Ballet and Alvin Ailey both did studies looking at the cost savings of bringing healthcare in-house um and showed that it saved them a lot of money as far as workers comp um versus having their dancers just go out to private practitioners.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank
Stephanie Greenspan: and Because also, if you have people in-house, they can collaborate with the with the coaches, the directors, you can work together as a team to take care of the artists versus um the artists being responsible for telling the you know, their coaches or their director what the healthcare providers said and, and that sort of game of telephone that, that is really, really difficult.
Stephanie Greenspan: um
Circuspreneur Podcast : him
Stephanie Greenspan: But again, we don't have those studies in the circus arts to show, show that efficacy. And so, um when companies are strapped, and unfortunately, that's going to get worse. um Right.
Stephanie Greenspan: And they're making, yeah, they're making really hard decisions already on how to stay afloat.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Unfortunately.
Stephanie Greenspan: um You know, healthcare is, is not something we're seeing a lot of companies prioritize as far as
Circuspreneur Podcast : is
Stephanie Greenspan: um what to spend money on for their artists. And so um to change that, we've got to show them the value. And and when you're in the management side, the value is always often around there the money.
Stephanie Greenspan: so
Circuspreneur Podcast : Right.
Stephanie Greenspan: ah But from from a research and a healthcare care provider, ah get that's important. But what I care about is that our artists are thriving. They're not just manage, you know, they don't have to be suffering. I think we need to get out of that mentality that is just normal to be broken.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Yeah.
Stephanie Greenspan: ah Yes, injuries happen, but we can take better care of people so they can feel better, so they can recover better, so they can have better mental health and um enjoy their lives as well as their art.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Greenspan: And we'll see better art that way too.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Yeah, absolutely. i think all of these preventions um and these, again, recommendations or protocols are just so brilliant. And it's taking a very well-rounded approach at our industry. And we just need that we just need the support, right? We just need the governmental support to be able to do these things. And we need it on the level that the other art firms get. And then also too, that the sporting world gets too, that you were discussing, Stephanie, like the IOC recommendations and That's where you know our policy for safe art and safe circus comes in, where we can get those same mandates and that jurisdiction expansion into the arts that they provide for the IOC or from the IOC, from youth and um and the Olympic sporting movement, and to open that up so that those same things are, again, not always just recommendations that we have to deal with in the
Circuspreneur Podcast : circus world, but that there things that lawfully have to be done and have to be mandated. I love that you discussed the accreditation of the circus arts, which again, you know, looking at our counterparts in other parts of the world, they're able to get a degree. I know we've all been there when people ask you if you've been to college, you know, obviously not everyone's like end up being a doctor like you, Stephanie, from being an artist to doctor.
Circuspreneur Podcast : And, you know, so many of us don't have degrees in our field. and how that, again, blocks us from those things. And so I think identifying those issues and then identifying the solutions, which you have all done with your brilliant research, but then again, seeing where we are blocked from being able to extend that research and then to be able to harness that research into things that everyone On a federal level, on a state level, this is again where policy comes in and where I feel that the solutions behind most of these things are policy because we're seeing more and more policies actually come up for all sorts of environments. And we're also seeing that overlap between the sporting world and the art world.
Circuspreneur Podcast : So many circus arts disciplines want to become Olympic sports. We see that with breakdance. For example, they you know had their one Olympics.
Stephanie Greenspan: Thank you.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Now they're under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Center for Safe Sport. Now they're under IOC standards. um protocol and jurisdiction. However, if you have a private dance studio in America that has breakdancing program, they are not under the Center for Safe Sport. So again, whether it's guidelines or whether we are written into the fabric or woven into the fabric,
Circuspreneur Podcast : of these institutions that now have existing policy. You know, I think it remains to be seen what the actual solution will be because there's so many different pathways to that. But I think harnessing again, when we come into these meetings and when we're advocating and so many times they're asking, where is the data and where is the research?
Circuspreneur Podcast : And that's so hard on all of us because there are folks like you and spaces and doctors and academics that want to do even more research. But what you've discussed too, ah Stephanie is being kept out of those grants. And that's, again, why we need circus arts recognition for that specific category. That's why we need a specific NAIC code for businesses reporting um you know their businesses as circus arts, which there's so many NAIC codes. There's like 10 or 11 NAIC codes for the circus arts industry. And then once that data is reported, it doesn't even show up as a circus arts.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um You know, specifically, I'll use Cirque Soleil as a big example of that. um You know, and so we have these things that even, you know, these are incredible mandates. You know, again, you're saying they stay very insular.
Circuspreneur Podcast : They stay, you know, maybe isolated to one institution. like, wow, they have this really great program. But then you don't see that, like you're saying, trickle down to the rest of the industry, the rest of the environment.
Circuspreneur Podcast : And I think we all are very clear at this point with the en masse of like circus arts just growing and growing and growing that you know we need to step in there and the solutions for those things that we feel like we keep on being blocked from, feel, and I think we're all kind of in agreement now is some sort of policy or at least being in the room when folks are deciding on other policy and advocating for it to include circus specific language, because most times when it doesn't include circus specific language, that's why we're just completely shut out.
Circuspreneur Podcast : And Like, I don't think we can drive that aspect home enough.
Stephanie Greenspan: Yeah.
Circuspreneur Podcast : If it's medical research, if it's any of those aspects of anything that you're trying to like have representation for, because it doesn't say circus, we're not allowed, we're not included.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um and it's just as simple as that. And just also, I think still as complex um as that. I'm also really excited that we will be meeting with some legislators when we're in DC and, um you know, presenting,
Circuspreneur Podcast : your research with the other panelists to discuss that with them. Because again, there could be so many different pathways to that. We have the Circus Workers Act, which would be um the Labor and Protections, the Safe Circus, Safe Art Act, which would increase and the safety protocols um and ah ah abuse prevention. And then we have the Circus Arts Category Recognition Bill.
Circuspreneur Podcast : And that would be the National endow Endowment for the Arts Recognition if the NEA continues to exist in America. And those are things that we just have to say um nowadays because we are in a very um interesting cycle.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um And, you know, just to kind of rip off of that, Stephanie, I'm in terms of like the current state of the arts and advocacy and your work in this particular environment? What is your perspective on that? Especially with going to DC, we are braving it out and going. There's so much happening in the world right now. um And even in the midst of that, the work continues and the work you know, with, with, with the important work that you're doing and the value of that. I think it's important to remind folks in the industry and kind of within the arts that, you know, no matter what environments we're in you know, we're still going to go to these, we're still going to go and present our panels. We're still going to go and, and, and represent um our art and represent our ideas. And it doesn't mean that, ah you know, these are kind of like impossible asks right now. They're just,
Circuspreneur Podcast : you know, will, I think, continue to evolve in ways that maybe we weren't totally, you know, that weren't exactly defined in the way that we think. And I think that's the part of having to be open and being brave when you're in spaces and creating, um you know, language that is innovative um and that is groundbreaking and that had not been ah instituted in our case in America before, but we know exist in in other countries, obviously, so we're not trying to reinvent the wheel here. But using our system to communicate these innovative things is what is most important because we are not Canada.
Circuspreneur Podcast : We are not, you know, Belgium. We're not France. We're not England. We are America. And so how do we harness all of that within the spaces that we're in now?
Stephanie Greenspan: Yeah, I think um it's it's both a really challenging time for us right now because um some of our groups, even within the circus artists, are feeling very fearful.
Stephanie Greenspan: um And so, you know, people people are are feeling like they have to hide out and and instead of speak out right now sometimes.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank
Stephanie Greenspan: um And then You have all these companies that are losing grants and funding for things that they've been doing for ages. And at the same rate, we need arts more than then more than ever, right? So arts is what change. Arts is what gets us through these periods. Arts is what creates change. Arts is what makes people listen.
Stephanie Greenspan: um So we we need our artists, we need their voices, we need their ability to build bridges.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank you.
Stephanie Greenspan: um And so I think there there is so much passion and energy that I see both from the artist side, um from the people, more and more ah young folks that are getting into healthcare care professions and wanting to work with artists.
Stephanie Greenspan: We're seeing more and more people interested in doing the research.
Circuspreneur Podcast : you
Stephanie Greenspan: So that that energy is there, um but people also have to make a living, right?
Circuspreneur Podcast : Yeah.
Stephanie Greenspan: So our artists need to eat. um Our healthcare practitioners can't, you know, be 100% volunteers for for all of their performing artists. um So, you know, that's where this funding is critical. And, and you know, same thing with the research, like,
Stephanie Greenspan: the funding isn't there for for performing arts and it's really not there for the circus arts in the United States. so um So all this advocacy work at the level that you're doing is critical.
Stephanie Greenspan: um see And I think there there are more voices that can come forward and support you on that. um but But people often just don't know how to do it or they might be afraid to go talk to someone in the legislature. So, you know, so I really appreciate the leadership that you're showing with that. and and And thank you for bringing us along on Capitol Hill.
Stephanie Greenspan: ah So I think it'll be important. And it's exciting, too, that we're going to have some of our colleagues ah from Canada and from the Netherlands join us so that they can share that, you know, it's not like that everywhere.
Stephanie Greenspan: Yeah.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Right.
Stephanie Greenspan: You know, they still they still have challenges and funding, but it's nothing like what we encounter here. So I think that's important, too, is just to show that elsewhere in the the world, you know, the arts are valued in a much different way.
Circuspreneur Podcast : Thank you so much, Stephanie. You're so fantastic. And I'm so grateful to be advocating with you um and to be included um and to be on this journey with you as a fellow advocate and for, you know, the really painstaking work that you were doing. Because again, ah take it takes folks like you that you know, continue to do it when no one's watching, when there is not the level of support there.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um And, you know, when the environment is not perfect. And I think that, you know, again, for those of us that have existed in the circus arts for a very long time, um And have, you know, the experiences of the ups and downs of this industry, you know, again, reminding everyone that, you know, this too shall pass and that the work continues and that we have the support of, you know, of environments like yours, Stephanie, that you've created um and the academics that are joining forces and that.
Circuspreneur Podcast : you know I think it's a great reminder that there's always folks working on your behalf, even when you're scared, even when you feel doubtful. And even if you don't know um all that's going on, that there are you know circus arts warriors out there that are putting in the work and doing the reports and facilitating things behind the scenes in the best way that they that they can um you know in that kind of like unseen um you know environment which i think sometimes advocacy in this way for circus art still is somewhat elusive, but I think that we're all trying to make it a very real thing um so that, you know, you can experience the real movement and the real progress of where we're all heading and we're all heading there together and, um you know, supportively and, you know, your research and all of those things will continue to help and influence the policies.
Circuspreneur Podcast : And that's one of my, you know, very important things in terms of what we get passed for the circus arts is that it should include those of us from the circus arts. And if it doesn't, it'll be informed for us. And I don't, I think that we have the right, you know, to speak on legislation and speak on things that impact all of our careers.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um And the work that we all love to do. so i want to leave everyone with the Circuspreneur podcast is also available on stage link.com. S D A G E L Y N C dot C O M the groundbreaking new platform for live performing arts that provides unmatched access and connection. Thank if you're a professional in the performing arts visitstagelink dot com slash pro hlink pro s t a g e l y n c p r o offers industry professionals higher visibility networking opportunities and tools to support and enhance their careers
Circuspreneur Podcast : and so next time everyone i'm shanae soettto and had a fantastic guest in dr stephanie greenspan follow athletic science on Instagram and for future updates. And we look forward to seeing everyone at PAMA and then at the International um ah ah Dance Association Medicine Conference.
Circuspreneur Podcast : I kind of butchered that a little bit, but I'll continue to give updates.
Stephanie Greenspan: so Thank you.
Circuspreneur Podcast : um And yeah, and we'll be hearing more from ah Dr. Stephanie as well. Please stay safe. And thank you everyone for tuning in.
