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Your Running Questions Answered | The Points of Shoe Podcast: Episode 3
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Although we'd love to, we don't have a lot of free time to answer all of your questions on the channel. That's why we're bringing Points of Shoe back so we can dedicate a whole podcast to responding to your messages.
In this episode, Tom and Nick answer a whole heap of great questions, from the simplifying brand running shoe lines to our best and worst marathons experiences.
Subscribe to The Run Testers for more running gear reviews: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheRunTesters?sub_confirmation=1
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Transcript
Introduction to Points of Shoe Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Hey, Homme from The Run Testers and welcome back to the Points of Shoe podcast. This is where we answer all of the questions that you've posed us on either Instagram or YouTube that we haven't had the chance to answer on those channels. Right, let's dive in and see what questions you've asked us this episode.
How Heat Affects Training Plans
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, how are you doing? Oh, quite the change. It was for you as a sup before you started recording, but now you're, hello. well Hello, Tom. My mood changes when I'm um when i'm on camera. How are you dealing with the heat?
00:00:42
Speaker
ah It's okay. Like, we, yeah, our house actually actually isn't too bad. i will say quite fortunate in that regard. It's and it's not been pleasant. There have been a few early pickups from nursery and school and that kind of thing, but um not too bad. You? They've been killing me.
00:00:57
Speaker
this is like This is like my first, ah this is week three on my training plan and yeah um on Wednesday was at Eastbourne Open, which is the day that track happens.
00:01:08
Speaker
So I couldn't do track on that day and I was going to get up early to do it and it was just too hot for me to do it even early. I've been doing my stuff early, it's been alright. I did mine at like seven on Wednesday and it was alright.
00:01:20
Speaker
Yeah. um Got a track tomorrow. Tomorrow's the last really hot. In UK, for those who don't know, it's been about 33, 35, 36 degrees Fahrenheit. Fahrenheit, no, centigrade Celsius. And that's really, really hot and the country can't handle it. But it's been unusually prolonged as well. So we're on our fourth day in a row of and there's one more to come tomorrow.
00:01:44
Speaker
yeah no I think tomorrow's drops down to about 27 which is not in London still 30 where I am of course yeah yeah I'm still alright here I'm looking forward to it I've got going out well going to watch the England game at 10pm in like a big brewery of lots of people and thought wow it'll be cool down by then it's still going be 27 it's going to be so sweaty in there yeah yeah definitely that that'll be alright few drinks be okay
Marathon Shoe Preferences
00:02:05
Speaker
yeah Right. Well, should we some, we've had a load more questions. Should we do some questions? lot questions. Yeah. Thank you very much everyone sending lots of questions. Good questions. Yeah. Yeah. Let me dig some and get them in good order. Get a good order, Tom. Yeah. That'd be nice. Okay. First of all, nice, simple one.
00:02:22
Speaker
Briar.Richards. um It says, when you say a race day shoe in your rotations, what length of race are you referring to? Yeah, we are a bit of a remiss on that. i think we mostly refer to marathon. We mostly are marathoners, I'd say, but generally i I don't think I've ever been in a position where I've thought the best marathon shoe isn't also my best 5K, 10K shoe, really. Maybe at the moment the Mizuno Pure might be my favorite 5K shoe and wouldn't use it for marathon, but really for everything. I think they're all so lightweight these days. um
00:02:52
Speaker
I don't think the kind of lower stack shoes are ah better than the ones i use in the marathon anyway, but yeah, I tend i tend to be referring to longer races. Yeah. yeah I would be... I think I generally... if When we do videos on race shoes, I will generally say if I would classify them as a 10K shoe or like a half marathon marathon shoe. yeah But yeah, in general, I'm always...
00:03:18
Speaker
I've normally got like a marathon on the horizon so the bulk of the racing that i'm talking about is generally that longer distance stuff. I think it might be a slightly different if we only topped out at 10k and we did a race, not for you, but for me, i think there's certain shoes that I would pick for that I wouldn't have for them but like my usual rotation. Yeah, I would say suppose um i I kind of worry less about the shoe I use at 5K because it's kind of all I... Generally, something's going to go right or wrong and in a 5K, it is much more for me to do with physiologically, I think the shoe has less an effect, whereas the marathon that can really...
00:03:53
Speaker
help a bit more over that length of time when you're just holding a pace whereas 5k to me just feels like a sprint straight out and any lightweight shoe feels bad or good depending on how I feel yeah yeah all right well next time I do rotations I might specify but I probably would if I was gonna if I was doing a 10k one at the moment I would probably I probably still go for like a six minute speed sky so amazing new colours of the ASIC's Met Speed coming time really nice blue ah ri oh yeah always got to be blue hasn't it well blue's the best I'm alright I'll stick with the red I'm fine I'm fine alright then ah this one is just a load of numbers and letters what race day shoes are ah good for people who have never tried shoes with a carbon plate presumably or she is asking what carbon plate shoes are good for people who have never tried shoes with a carbon plate Yeah, we've had kind of variations in this
Beginner-Friendly Carbon Plate Shoes
00:04:42
Speaker
question a few times. it really depends on your goals, i think, is what usually say. You're right, Tom. Yeah, you you you normally say that. Anyway, you go with this one. ah
00:04:51
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's certain shoes that are just good for people who have never... If the question is asking for race day shoes, car and plate race day shoes that are good for people who've never tried them before, there's obviously ones that are probably safer.
00:05:08
Speaker
and Some of them are a little bit out there. I wouldn't go for anything aggressive that really puts your foot into a position that's not natural, especially if you're using it for like a half marathon or a marathon. Maybe, you know, 5K, you might want to risk, you'd be able to risk it. But, you know, if you if you if you're if you've never tried to come play, you're doing a marathon and you get the RC Elite 3 on.
00:05:27
Speaker
three on ah the fast R3 the RC Elite would be a non-existent New Balance yes that's the one yeah so yeah if you're going for something like that that's probably a very risky shoe for a beginner to take on a marathon but if you just want really simple answer you'd probably look at someone the Brooks I appear in Elite because it's a bit more stable a bit more reliable bit less aggressive Yeah, or the Puma DV8 Nitro Elite 4. It's just a fast shoe. Yeah. It doesn't feel too weird or anything. And and if the question isn't necessarily saying can't play shoes, then there's loads of options. Big comfy shoe, yeah. Yeah, so Megabass is a great option. If you want to spend a bit of cash, that's a great, I love it for marathons.
00:06:10
Speaker
Okay, so this
Best and Worst Marathon Experiences
00:06:12
Speaker
one's a good one. And oddly, I have similar um Instagram handle to me. Andrew Memmij.fitness.
00:06:21
Speaker
um Your best and worst marathon and the kit you used. Cheers from Vancouver. Nice. Oh, that's a place I really want to go, Vancouver. Brilliant place. Love it. I'd i to move there in an instant if I got an opportunity.
00:06:35
Speaker
Oh, nice. and Right. Well, my best marathon was the Seville Marathon where I PB'd. Ran 225. That was in the Essex Messer Speed Sky Paris last year before the Tokyo came out. um Some good runs since, including a fast one, Loch Ness, but it was bit downhill. so i think that was my best marathon.
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah, great shoe. Worst marathon... So the first couple were kind of fine. wasn't really trying yeah for times in particular. The first time I went for like 240, I tried to train myself just, you know, off the peg plan. Didn't really know what i was doing. And I kind of peaked about two months before the marathon, I think, in terms of fitness and then got less and less fit.
00:07:13
Speaker
And it was a really, really hot London one a few years back. um So I ran like i blew up and ran like a 302 or something. I'm trying to think. i must have been in a vapor flight then.
00:07:25
Speaker
Shoot. No, I wouldn't have been.
00:07:28
Speaker
That might have been the last one before my Vaporfly years, Tom. Wow. That's going back. Let's think. Yeah. um I mean, I've had blow-ups in carbon shoes, but they've never been as bad as that one. that would ah but What would i been running in then?
00:07:43
Speaker
God, can't even remember.
00:07:46
Speaker
Well, I don't You think of yours. i' try and think of the shoes. ah Well, ah there's a couple ways you can look at this question. So obviously when when it comes to you, it's all going to be about time. So your best best ones are going to be the fastest ones. ah So for me, i mean, Berlin is my fastest ever time, which I remember fondly, but I don't remember it as like being my best marathon. I didn't particularly enjoy it. i just... You seemed a lot more hyped after Chicago than you did after Berlin. Chicago, i was really happy with. um But again, I didn't massively enjoy it. I'll tell you the one that I that i enjoyed the most, um and it's not particularly fast time, but it was the first time I ever probably...
00:08:26
Speaker
actually thought, oh, I might be getting quite good at running. yeah It was their Madrid Marathon. think I've mentioned this before. Madrid Marathon. So I did that with my friend Oli. And up until that point, I'd never beaten Oli in my life. I thought there was a kind of addictive element to the best one, yeah. Yeah, well, Wee Wave went out. And I'd sort of, this first time I'd I haven't really trained... I'm trained now, but I was dieting, not drinking, and yeah ah doing the right weights and stuff. And I remember... And I beat him by about 10 minutes, and it was the best best feeling in the world. The best 10 minutes of his life as he came in. He wouldn't talk to me for days. um And then... ah Yeah. it it And it was a really...
00:09:07
Speaker
It's a really nice, it's a really hard marathon it's really hilly, but it's a really scenic marathon. always wondered why liked Richard so much. you never You never explained that it's because you'd have beaten him, are they? Yeah, so you got just very fond memories of that marathon. just remember just feeling great and overtaking him about 30k and somehow getting 10 minutes ahead of him. So that's my favourite. Nice. Best memory. My worst, oh, and and that was, ah of course, it was the Sockity Dolphin Pro 3.
00:09:32
Speaker
i dont No, sorry, that wasn't. That wasn't even a super shoe. Yeah, it wouldn't have been a machine, would That was 2014. Yeah. ah It could have been like like the Mizuno Wave Rider.
00:09:47
Speaker
18s or something like that. You just don't remember those shoes, do you? It wasn't a good shoe. It wasn't a fast shoe by any stretch mind. I didn't have fast shoes at that point. i didn't I wasn't a running journalist. um So yeah, Christ. um And I remember I wore wimble wim Wimbledon Windmiles t-shirt as well.
00:10:04
Speaker
back in that Back in my with my days. and um dropped in maya Yeah, what's your worst one? Is it, did Oli beat you subsequently? No, no, no. Although he has beat me a couple of times, but not very well.
00:10:19
Speaker
and Now I've destroyed him with my my PBs. It's not what you can do. ah The worst one was Brighton. yeah because I my diet beforehand was absolutely mad and I the week before I went I i think I read a load of stuff about what to eat and basically destroyed my stomach for it and had loads of hi-fi gels you are the member you remember the hi-fi gel marathon you do have talked about this many times I basically i had to go in every toilet for about It took me about five hours. I just waddled my way into the end. um It was awful. It was a very dark time.
00:10:58
Speaker
and So, yeah, that was why that's my worst one. I can't remember. I probably was the Vaporfly for that one. That was quite hard. had a one with a similar gastro shoes, and I tried just using the SAS beta fuel really high impact ones, and that didn't go well. I was in the Nike Infinity React when I had my worst marathon. Wow. Okay. Because i'd run 115 half in it, PB'd in the half in it. And I thought I could, I know I'd done some good runs in it. Actually, you know what might be the actual best marathon terms of vibes, pure vibes. Yeah.
00:11:24
Speaker
My first Loch Ness was five months after, four months after the birth of my first child, my daughter, and we were doing a family trip Scotland. My wife is Scottish, so we were going up see family and then we'll go on to Loch Ness and do the race. I was staying in this tiny little Airbnb out on John and Drockett and I hadn't really done much training. I had been doing reasonably hard but short sessions. I think I'd done one long run of 30K.
00:11:49
Speaker
so It was a complete surprise you know how well it went. I finished second. and then I didn't run a particularly fast time but it was the hardest to finish such a big race. i was completely I remember like a 5K from the end, someone on the sidelines in a Scandinavian accent saying, go for the silver medal. don't know what she's talking about.
00:12:03
Speaker
And I realized, yeah, actually a lot of people had dropped out of that race. It wasn't a particularly good day. And were there were very fast Kenyan lads at the front and one of them had dropped out. and So, yeah. And then, obviously, I went straight through, met my then infant daughter and my wife. And it was, yeah, it was great. And our friends were there as well, running as well. So that have been the best, some one of the best pure vibes one for an unexpected treat. Yes, the one I've heard about the most. That was heard the Vaporfly Next Percent. So the first after the 4%.
00:12:32
Speaker
Yeah, that was great. And that was also good because that was at the time that, was it you or someone had to sleep in a bath? Someone saw Kieran sleep in your bath? I think it was Mike. Kieran had to sleep in Mike's bath, didn't he? Yeah, yeah. Did you hear worst?
00:12:46
Speaker
Yeah, that was the one I blew up in the heat. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, let's do a
Alternatives to Nike Zoom Fly 6
00:12:50
Speaker
shoe one. ah So, Al Zatev's question is, which would be my ah my alternatives to the Nike Zoom Fly 6 as super trainers?
00:13:00
Speaker
He's got his cadence on there, but i't think much difference. I mean, if you're if you're looking for another plated trainer that's better than the Zoomfly 6, Zoomfly 6 is really, really good. um think the Hoka Mac X3 would be an alternative. It's a bit bit bit confier, a bit bouncier, but probably similar in terms of performance.
00:13:20
Speaker
Plated training shoes going out of fashion a little bit now, aren't they? I'd say you probably want looking at something like the Mega Blast, the, you know, the lightweight, great, cheaper shoes, the Kipron Kipstom Tempo.
00:13:32
Speaker
I the Zip 5.6 is pretty great. like you see You see that a deal. i think that's a pretty good shoe to pick up if you like it already. I've never tried it, so know what it's like. It's just a solid plated shoe, yeah. it's very It's pretty comfy and stable as well. and So much I think the Hoka Mac X3 would be an alternative, but it doesn't say why they need an alternative, so it's hard to say.
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah, all right. Well, I'll do. i Another non-winning shoe question. um How do you fit weights and speed sessions into a week without compromising quality of either?
00:14:05
Speaker
I tend not to, in fact. If I ever if i do do my strength training, it does compromise everything because I immediately get massive DOMs. But Tom is very good at strength training, so Tom will answer this. less I'm less good at the... i do... i mean, you don't need... It depends what your level you're running at.
00:14:19
Speaker
I do... At the moment, I do two speed sessions a week now, um but I do do three weight sessions. But it depends if you're just specific. Most runners, if they do strength training, just do legs.
00:14:34
Speaker
um So it's not that hard to get in. I do three sessions a week because i do upper body as well, which does actually make life a bit harder doing three strength sessions, which I have to travel to. And then also fitting in five running sessions as well is actually quite hard. and Yeah, but your strength thing is quite long as well.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah, an hour and a half today. An hour 40 minutes today. I've wrecked foot, just hamstrings for an hour and 40 minutes. It's madness. Yeah, yeah. What I do now to try and do something, because I don't feel so bad, I do micro workouts, basically. So I've got three. I rotate.
00:15:06
Speaker
So one is... Classic big strength moves, so squats, deadlifts. This is all just done well at home in like literally 10 minutes before or after a run. um A few press ups, obviously, you can tell by my bulging chest. um And then but I do the same on single leg another day and I do a plyometrics one another day. That's good. That's good. how so And how long are those, say, at 10 minutes?
00:15:26
Speaker
If I do them as quick as I can, about 10 minutes, yeah if I really speed through them and lower the quality of each rep. um Yeah. And ah and probably this recently I've had races and I just, you know, I would never be prepared to jeopardize even the slightest bit of race performance by doing a strength session a day before even a short one. But I do, I will say...
00:15:42
Speaker
once you get into rhythm and you do them regularly enough you don't get the kind of doms that affects your running and even when you've got really bad doms i you know if i've i' still got if i do do these because i'm trying to commit to it and i've got really painful doms it doesn't actually affect my running performance i don't think like once i've actually gone through a warm-up and started running hard i run just as well as i always do i think yeah you just got to avoid you just got to push through that first bit when the doms are so painful you never want to do it again yeah so in answer to question so uh what i would say is to to get the best quality, it depends as well if you like if if you're focusing on a specific area. like if not I've got really dodgy calves, so I have to do special calf exercises all the time.
00:16:19
Speaker
If you don't need to do that, I would just focus on doing compound exercises like squats, like your lunges, and instead of doing lots of little muscles. and and And if you're not getting any sort of major issues that you're trying to fix. Speed sessions, um i think, I mean, I don't think you could compromise on a speed session unless you're just not putting the effort in.
00:16:41
Speaker
yeah you get the result as the worst way to do a speed session is to overdo it i'd say you just got to get the training effect you got to work hard don't worry about too much basically if you're doing if you do one speed session a week that has got to be full on you've got to be really you can't just like dabble a little bit in a bit of speed and then dip out again if you want to do a proper speed session if you're doing a couple you can probably adjust the second one a bit but i think you always need one really good solid speed session in there um Yeah, it's posing your goals. don't do anything at all-out speed. All my speed sessions are designed to be long and you know getting harder as they go on. Oh, yeah, we don't actually know what he's training for either. so Yeah, but it's – I mean, yeah, like say, i like some service like the only way you compromise a speed session is by doing it too hard too early and not being able to do the reps correctly by the end.
00:17:25
Speaker
sometimes you But if you're working good and hard, your body will benefit, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's lots and lots of ways to do these things and get a good benefits out of them. Like, you know, HIIT training was developed for to speed up um to cardiovascular side of it. Okay. um Okay, this one, I think we sort of answered this one last time.
Rebuilding After a Break
00:17:45
Speaker
So just quickly. um This is Gautam Gavanko says, how to get back after a complete two-month laziness break?
00:17:53
Speaker
or just build up build up gradually and try and find the fun right yeah take it easy just just just get into a habit i think just you know even if you're just doing twice a week just get just make sure you go twice a week and then you'll just get used to it um don't force yourself to get into five day training plan straight away because you either you'll get injured or you just get really bored straight away because it's it's a bit too much Yeah, it's a bit of a cliche thing out there nowadays, but yeah habits. You can't rely on motivation. It's just going to be something that you are you are doing that day. and You don't really let the alternative into your mind and then it becomes a habit because if it's, oh, do I want to run today?
00:18:28
Speaker
Sometimes you just won't. I mean, I nearly always do anyway, but it's never a question about whether I'm running. It's how I'm fitting in the run. um yeah love yeah Sometimes I don't run if it doesn't fit with family plans stuff, but generally it's, yeah, how do I run? Yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker
like Okay, ah this one i don't even think we're going to be able to answer. ah Lewis mur Murphy says, what is the best race day trail shoe, carbon and non-carbon? I don't even... don't know. I don't know. None of us know. If you're doing cross country and it's that kind of really muddy trails, I'd always get Innovate.
00:18:58
Speaker
yeah But yeah, in terms of like other trails, I'm afraid. It would really depend on the trails and... Yeah. I don't use, I'm racing, I'm doing a trail race on Sunday actually. Yeah. And I won't go carbon on it. I i don't use carbons for trail racing. I like a a solid shoe.
00:19:18
Speaker
I think so far, the way where I'm landing on the kind of carbon trail shoe thing is if if it's a race where I'd be happy using a carbon trail shoe, I'd probably use a carbon road shoe. Yeah. Yeah. Because they'd be better if it's you enough if if it's not too worrying about the terrain. Yeah. so so yeah sorry can't answer that I don't think any of us would be able to answer that on the run testers because none of us test enough ah of the different various trail shoes out there but I'm sure Kieran might say like the Hockey Tech Tom what are you on now three that crops up quite a bit yeah it's a fun shoe yeah yeah Okay, ah next one we've got here is a non-shoe one. It's, how do you know which workouts are good and which are not?
00:19:56
Speaker
No coach, just searching internet.
00:20:01
Speaker
That's tricky. I mean, if you're if you're not going for event-specific stuff, an event-specific plan, then, but I mean, ultimately, running hard in any way, pretty good as long as you're not overdoing it. Yeah, it's going to be good for you. Like, I think specificity is a bit of a trend away from it now, isn't there now? of people just doing a lot of like threshold work no matter what the event is and just, you know, that and that improving their performance. I think, yeah, don't think there's necessarily anything that's too bad to work unless you're a beginner and you go into 40 times 400 or something. But yeah, I mean,
00:20:31
Speaker
I mean, the way the probably the answer the better would be like, how do you go about finding a credible plan or coach, which, you know, yeah someone like Tom would be qualified and you'd find somewhere. Yeah, I mean, I have a coach. I have a coach. um I think there's a definitely a, i mean, you you could search, that but you could find the best workouts, but if they're not actually the best workouts for what you're training for, they're not going to be particularly good workouts. If you're doing, you know, 10 times one kilometre reps with blocks of rest,
00:20:59
Speaker
great workout if you're the sort of person that's training for an event that that's beneficial workout for but for some people you know that's that could be very long reps and for a long time um so some people it's much better to do the short sort of stuff for the if you're trying to build up the speed um i think probably uh i mean There will be, there probably are some workouts that are rubbish.
00:21:22
Speaker
<unk>ve I've generated some on AI and looked at them and thought that that is just pointless workout. It's just just basically amalgamated some different workouts ah to pull something together. and But I would follow, look at...
00:21:34
Speaker
like the old school coaches. Like, yeah you know, there's a lot of these... Higdon's, your Lydiots. Your Hal Higdon's, your... Yeah, there's loads of them that have been, you know, they're like in their 60s and 70s now. They've been coaching for years. Their sessions are fantastic.
00:21:48
Speaker
Like, just follow them. They've been using them for years. that People all over the world use those and and copy those those sessions. yeah Use them. They're the safest ones. And they will explain what the session does. If you're just going on the internet and, you know, you're going like on some running website and it's saying, try these five...
00:22:03
Speaker
workouts and it just gives you the workout for no explanation of what the aim is of it, what it's meant to benefit you for how often to do it. Don't do those. Just yeah just look at like just look at how we've done basically. He's got an app as well which will give you the the sessions that you can add to your watch. So that makes life easier.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, and there's no lot one workout that's a hero workout anything like that. It's just stacking up good work over a long period of time. There's no one thing that's going to change everything. Yeah, and sometimes you'll see like influencers just posting, like, this is a great workout, and they've got no exh explanation of why it's a good workout. They just do it.
00:22:34
Speaker
It's very hard. Yeah. Okay, so we've got on here. Let's move on to the um the YouTube ones, which, as always, are a bit longer and a bit more involved.
Impact of Last-Minute Shoe Changes
00:22:42
Speaker
We've got one from Jan Posco, who says, thanks for your great work. Love all the testing vids and the podcasts. ah Thank you. Thank you. um My question, have you ever changed shoes shortly before a PB attempt race? Like, let's say you had shoe plan to use, but then a new release made you change your mind.
00:23:00
Speaker
You do this all the time, don't you? Yeah, I'm ah um' a sucker for hype. I love hype. so um so I suppose before London Marathon last year, I got the Puma Fast R3 the week before, ran a parkrunner and a steady 10 miler and thought, yeah, I'm definitely using this. It's incredible.
00:23:15
Speaker
um it' you know In our line of work as well, it is just fun to test the latest thing and it's the most interesting video. like you know If they handed us the Pro Evo 3 before a race, you'd probably go, oh, should use this. This is more entertaining than the shoe I've planned to use and everything like that. So yeah, I'd say it happens fairly often for us, but the Fastall 3 certainly sticks in the mind for that. I remember in ah when we did Bilbao, I wasn't a PB attempt, but I got like the Salomon, what was it? S-Lab Phantasm?
00:23:39
Speaker
First one or second one, um just before, ah sorry, I've got those notifications on my phone for football games. Got to turn those off. It's too many games. um ah Yeah, and I wore that. But yeah, I don't tend to mind too much throwing on something new for a PB attempt as long as I think it's, as long as the hype has convinced me, it's really, really good.
00:23:55
Speaker
Yeah. Or I've done at least one run in it. Okay. ah i mean you You're stalwart with your shoes. i i mean that I very rarely have a PB race attempt. i If I'm fit, every race is a PB attempt, right so i just use any shoe that's going, really. ah The only time I've ever...
00:24:15
Speaker
anytime i've ever probably it was in that pi when I was in Chicago and Berlin and I used the Sockenendorfin Pro 3 for both. i had loads of other shoes and I just used them because I wanted to go safe and they were the right shoe to go for. yeah i just didn't want to risk anything for those two races. So yeah, I would do it all the time.
00:24:33
Speaker
and So, yeah, suppose sometimes we go on um trips and usually if you know a brand has taken us somewhere, it's not usually a PB race attempt because, you know, it's normally work basically and it's a fun event and everything. But, you know, then obviously we'll be using one of their shoes if they've just launched something. So that can be a bit new and occasionally you have a great race in it kind of thing. Okay. ah We've got a problem from Mercial here. If you were in charge of a running shoe brand, what shoes would you want allow in a lineup and why? For example, an Asics or an Adidas could have 10 to 25 shoes in a lineup at any time given they are trying to cater to different categories.
00:25:07
Speaker
EG Daily Tempo, Cushion Race, Price Points, Budget, Premiums and Preferences. It seems a bit excessive and wasteful and also confusing for the customer. Hmm. Yeah, it it is.
00:25:19
Speaker
is. I'd be killing off a lot of cushioned daily trainers, i'll tell you that. said josh um Yeah, I think... Yeah, I don't know. Like if you look at Asics, there's the Nimbus, the Cumulus, the Nova Blast, the Kano, the, don't know, there any others? But there's, there's, yeah, there's like Noosa, Dyna Blasts.
00:25:39
Speaker
Yeah. It's too many shoes. Um, Mega Blasts, Sonic Blasts, Super Blasts. Yeah. Yeah. You start with four shoes, I guess. Should be big, easy, cushioned, stability shoe, fast trainer and a race shoe.
00:25:55
Speaker
And then where do you go from there, I guess? yeah Cheaper models are the same shoes I'm not a big fan of. You should just make the first model cheap. suppose, i suppose i mean, some brands do try and do this and then they sort of lose their way after a bit and, you know, you just end up having loads more. I think there's quite a lot of newer brands, like like look like like r a d RAD,
00:26:16
Speaker
that They're running line up. They are trying to do this where they sort of come they've got one shoe for each thing. Yeah, but there's already pointless overlap there. They've got a a bad cushion daily trainer. Well, yeah and not an optically amazing one and a really good one. well i Just have a really good one. I suppose suppose you can't just have a like four shoes because you've got a cater for and what people can afford from a you know marketing perspective.
00:26:40
Speaker
All your shoes can't be expensive because a lot of people... did you make Could you make the expensive one a bit cheaper if you weren't also making the other ones? don't know. i i could I think maybe... yeah Maybe I'd go for...
00:26:54
Speaker
I mean, it does get complicated because there's lots different types of runners and stuff like that. So I think you probably need like two from each section, like two race shoes, one that's a lighter, rate like ah a more nimble race shoe and a more cushioned race shoe. don't think you need two race shoes. Sorry? go I can get away of one race shoe.
00:27:11
Speaker
yeah I'd like it really stripped back, Tom. if you're If you're going to go all the way, just has to be a really good race shoe that can do that. ah Yeah. I mean, lots of brands certainly had one race shoe for a long time and then we all got along fine. So yeah, I would probably say that if I was to law if us create my really shoe brand, i would I would break it up into, and for the consumer yeah and just say, this is an incredible ah cushioned easy shoe. This is an incredible daily shoe.
00:27:40
Speaker
This is incredible speed a training shoe and this is incredible race shoe. And then also I would still have a cost effective option at the bottom for people who want a good shoe, but they're not going to spend more than 70 quid yeah i guess whether whether you need a stability shoe or whether um yeah a lot of brands don't their stability shoes are sort of less stability shoes now aren't they yeah i think i think you'd have like a hurricane which would just be a fantastic easy day shoe that also is quite stable yeah yeah you could do It's pretty hard. it's really easy see You can see why the temptation is to make another shoe each time because that's the easiest way to make a splash. And like you look Brooks, I think Brooks' is example a brand that has really struggled with this a bit because they had the Glycerin and the Ghost, which are effectively quite similar shoes. And then they needed some different shoes and gave them both a rockered version. And now they're bringing in the Glycerin to Flex. And then there's going to be the Ghost amp. And it's just like...
00:28:32
Speaker
The Ghost Ant being a more lively day trainer, make the Ghost that, you know. The other thing I'd say on this one as well is that I think the problem that a lot of brands have is that they have legacy models. If you were to start your own brand, you wouldn't have legacy models. But, you know, some brands, you look at like the Nimbus, the Cumulus lines, all of those sorts of shoes, they can't get rid of them.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah. but And they're now so similar to other shoes. That's thing. I think when they first made them, they were quite different. Yeah. And so you've you've used to have this really long, i mean, there are some shoes like, you know, softening different trainer stuff. There's no need for that shoe to exist. Like that is, you know, there's plenty of shoes that do better so stuff than that. And they're cheaper within the brand zone range. But I can see why you end up with this long tail of like an extra 10 shoes, which you just like, you just can't get rid of because if you get rid of them, you're going to lose a massive chunk of your audience.
00:29:19
Speaker
um But yeah, for me, I think if you started new brand, you could do with five shoes. I'm out of trail shoe. Yeah, i think if you were I think you would even do the trail shoe at first. because like yes you know You don't need a specialist area. You have to learn how to do what's quite a different thing, I guess. but yeah yeah yeah It's easy for brands to wear shoes. It's very hard for them take to take them away. That's the problem.
00:29:39
Speaker
ah So ah this one here is from Bedatube.
Training Shoes for Strength vs Performance
00:29:44
Speaker
And they've asked, I've got general question on shoe choices. I get that a racing day shoe should be light and energy returning, but isn't training day about building endurance and strength? So shouldn't we steer training day shoes tempo daily more for comfort and less for performance?
00:30:02
Speaker
Basically talking about you know if you're wearing a rubbish, a shoe that doesn't help you very much, you're getting it in more training gains than if the shoe is doing loads. I mean, nearly all of your gains from training come from you running, I'd say, right? Not from, you know, making it hard on yourself in some way. Like, ah I think, you know, if you go out and run a hard session in a bad shoe compared to a good shoe, the difference isn't going to make much physiologically would be my guess. It just might feel a bit rubbish and harder. um Yeah, I don't know. i don't think the shoe makes, you know, it does but ah does make a difference if you're running a fast and it's in a better shoe that's more set up to run fast. But,
00:30:37
Speaker
I wouldn't say that you're going to get more benefit by trying to do that in a shoe that isn't set up to run fast, really. It's just going to make it a bit unpleasant. Well, you might get benefits if you're going out and doing sessions. Say you're going to do an inter interval session in pair of ASICS and ASICS Sky Tokyo, yeah and you're trying to hit four many kilometers for some of the reps that you're doing or all of the reps, um and that's your max you can do. and then you take a really rubbish pair shoes out that are really clunky and not very bouncy and you're hitting four minute kilometers for those as well, you'd expect that you're probably going to be feeling a lot worse in the other shoe. So either way, youre going to you should be running to do your max effort in that shoe.
00:31:19
Speaker
um If I was going out to do i well i did it Sometimes I'll go into track and I used the DV8 Pures um the other the other day. i could not hit the time that I would normally get on that rep as ah I was doing in you knows a carbon plate shoe.
00:31:36
Speaker
I still put the same effort. I could not have gone any faster on this rep. so it's It's more about the effort you're training at. you know if yeah ah If you could run in a pair of Keanos, at exactly the same speed you're running at the Meta Speed Sky Tokyo, you probably you're probably putting in more effort in that shoe.
00:31:51
Speaker
um But yeah, it's more about effort and heart rate and everything. You should should know if you're… It's putting in effort. I think it's also though, i suppose it's just, if the shoe isn't set up for speed in the way your race day shoe is in terms of the geometry and, you know, rolling you through a bit better. And on race day, you want to be practiced on that motion.
00:32:11
Speaker
so i think you know what I do like using kind of lightweight speed focus shoes that don't have a plate for training. and like i get and I get a kick out of using some other pure or the EOSL or the Dynafish. In this week I've used speed sessions and you know using that instead of a carbon shoe, it feels good. You're still you still kind of being put in the same position, I guess, to run it as you would in your ratios having got the plate and the actual max lightweightness. but yeah i they ah yeah i guess I don't agree with the idea that know if you make your training harder, you're getting more benefit. I think you're just making your training harder and that's probably then making your next workout a little bit worse and things like that. and Actually, the art of training well is train consistently
00:32:48
Speaker
and do using a speech you would help that and yeah so guess i think if i went and did my track workout tomorrow i'm probably going to use the dynafish i might use a carbon shoe if it's hot and i'm you know feel like i want that mental boost but if i went and did it in the brooks ghost 18 i probably would hit the same kind of paces because it's a controlled session i'm not going all out but i feel worse afterwards my recovery will take a bit longer I think of anything, I'd then be impacted in my Sunday run and that wouldn't be quite as fun, as enjoyable or as good.
00:33:15
Speaker
So I wouldn't say, i and I don't think the workout in the Brooks would have made me a better runner than doing it in the Dynafish, for a example. No, and if you break up this, there's a few, there's different arguments for this. So this is specifically talking about other gains to using a worse shoe for basically training. Yeah. But there's also loads of other arguments, which is like,
00:33:33
Speaker
the carbon plate shoes with really good foams and engine return actually lower your recovery requirements because they're much better on, know, from like optimizing your movement and giving you cushioning and bounce and stuff. So there's that benefit to it.
00:33:46
Speaker
ah But there are arguments saying that, you know, certain carbon plate shoes maybe are probably not a good thing to wear all the time because they're not natural. They're more aggressive. They're probably... you know i don't know if this is true. I don't think anyone's ever really. It's still up in the air a bit, i guess. i think I think there's definitely a mental benefit to doing a workout in a worse shoe because you feel like a bit of a legend. but ah Yeah, yeah. And that's good. You can carry that in and go, well, when I then put on my carbon shoe, I'm going to feel great on race. And I know lots of runners who try and avoid using carbon their speed workouts, but they're still using like a you know a lightweight speed focus shoe. So I think that yeah that works out quite well because then, you like you say, you're not using a plate. Maybe maybe there is something in the injury side of things like that that will come out over the years. And so I do like going to the track and trying to do things.
00:34:27
Speaker
especially as i mostly do like say kind of threshold workouts, you know, in something like these kind of lightweight daily trainers, you know, that, that feels good, but, I'm not trying to make it hard of myself necessarily. I'm just trying to, you know, maybe save a bit of my carbon energy for race day. But yeah, I'd, so yeah, I wouldn't go as far as to then use a shoe that's just not in my my view built for speed really fast sessions because it doesn't probably make that much of a practical difference. You know, you can run faster any shoe, but it just wouldn't feel as fun. And I think it might yeah have a knock on effect next day. Okay, let's one more. I've actually got a few more questions. question that It's a good question. I don' think i don't think I've really answered very well either. We've given some thoughts. Hopefully there's something in there. But and again, not an expert. I'm sure there are people out there who probably would give smarter answers. Yeah.
00:35:11
Speaker
Well, I've got time for one more. And then I've got other questions, but we'll add those on to the next one. But we'll do it all night because some of these are quite... in depth. um So this is from your real name one. Are you more sensitive now to shoes getting old as you can switch to newer pairs so often? I see so many runners take shoes to a thousand kilometers, but rarely see shoe reviewers take a shoe over a hundred miles.
00:35:35
Speaker
Yeah. There's no time to do all the shoes today. I would love to do all this. You know, the shoes I like to longer distance occasionally get to take one on, but there's too many shoes. And um the truth is,
00:35:46
Speaker
I think the scope for reviews channel to do this and that we'd love to actually review just to really focus on doing a kind of 10, 12 shoe reviews a year doing like really good in depth testing, going to, know, testing for ages, but it will be much less popular and do less well in terms of actual like if you're trying to use this as a business than just reviewing loads of shoes, which what we do. So we try and do a certain level, but yeah. So I don't like I've got to have got a 350K in the Mega Blast. It doesn't feel any different to me from new.
00:36:11
Speaker
um I don't tend, I think, to go through shoes that quickly. ah i don't. Yeah, I've always never had a problem with durability or issues. Tom rips off the hill after one run, but that's not really about shoe getting old.
00:36:21
Speaker
So, yeah I mean, it would be cool to do a lot more long term reviews and occasionally like we get a little lull and I get really excited. i'm going to take the Mega Blast out for like 20 runs in marathon training, and get long term reviewing. But yeah, it comes at the expense of doing of covering stuff that people want covered and we want to cover. So it's trick it's tricky balance. and But I think that is one the one well one of the areas that's really good in the comments is people really go big on durability. You know, people have used the shoes. Okay, so you didn't actually answer the question. I'll answer the actual question. So the question was, are you more sensitive now to shoes getting old as you can switch to new repairs so often? So yeah i think I think I am quite sensitive to to the mid-soles of shoes.
00:36:59
Speaker
um And sometimes we get sent... two of the same pair of shoes. So we can actually switch from a pair where we've done like 80 kilometers in back to the pair that ah is like a new pair and just see how that feels straight from the off. And sometimes it does, it is but noticeable and in some shoes, especially they're the more delicate sort of um ah race day shoes ones.
00:37:22
Speaker
and They do tend to, I do tend to see a difference, not all shoes ah by any stretch of imagination, but yeah, from from from this question, yeah, sometimes you can actually spot that. um I don't, ah it's not something that we, it's not often that I test the same pair shoes twice. So it's it's ah it's rare, um but I definitely think that you can do that. It does, one thing, one one way to test it, I find is that um if you've if you got a pair of old shoes that we've got and we and you sort put it back up, because I've got shoes that that I've, I've got the ballos out actually, Nick. I'm going to take them out, I think, in the next few days and just see if they're as good as I remember. Speaking of shoe lines, got killed off. That was an odd one that just died, didn't it? I'm just very sad about the ballast. It's good shoe, that. Yeah, but it might good in my head, it's going to be incredible. I bet it's awful because the shoes have developed so much since that shoe came out. I think that'll be good. it was good fun.
00:38:17
Speaker
It was good fun, good rocker. Yeah. and That was a perfectly good shoe, which is ridiculously overpriced. Yeah. think Yeah. yeah on But I loved it.
Frequent Shoe Switching and Wear and Tear
00:38:26
Speaker
um Yeah. so yeah, answer to your question, I think, yes, we are a bit more sensitive than most people would be. Um, because I think it's, I think, yeah, I like it. I, the reason, well, my answer meaning to say was like, it's hard to tell if I'm more sensitive because it's so off rare that, you know, I mean, I've just got a new Evo cell in the previous cell has a hundred miles on it, uh, 120 miles and they feel very similar to me, maybe a slightly firmer than you are. But, um,
00:38:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think I don't know if I am much more sensitive, like unless it's a really drastic change. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. i think that'll do us for quite a 45 minute, 40 minutes ish. Two child breaks. Two child breaks. I'd like editing those. I'll edit out so nobody will know about that, but we'll keep it in here. ah Cool. Well, I've got, as I said, I've got those questions left for the next one we do, which hopefully will be relatively soon. um Thanks a lot for all of your questions that you sent in. We've got loads through very in a very short period. Yes, thanks very much. Really good, actually. We're... yeah I just don't think we just I don't worry I'm just giving not very good answers actually looking back just rambling but just rambling yeah just rambling but yeah that's what the pod is right I did skip a question about street vibes so what that's what people people are tuning in to street but I mean to fair I just give a nod to street vibes people don't really know what street vibes are so that's really Tom's area yeah cool alright then well ah thank you all for the sink and watching and we'll be back soon on Points of Shoe yeah hopefully it won't be so hot
00:39:49
Speaker
Catch you next time. Sup?
00:39:54
Speaker
This episode of the podcast was presented by Tom Wheatley and Nick Harris Fry. It was produced by Tom Wheatley. The music was by Fear of Tigers.