the one where we wing it (ep. 6)

Transcript

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Hey, welcome to O Brother News. I'm Gabe, and we're brothers.

James: i'm james is the yeah enjoying a lot here yeah yeah it's actually texas of course you know red texas they want to do away with the americans that did americans with disabilities act

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: and This week, oh brother, we are not, we're underprepared brothers, so we're going to wing it. This will probably be the one where we wing it. Uh, okay.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So you were telling me about how Indiana is one of 17 states that's doing what now?

James: Now specifically, they started because you know um there was rules that you know included gender identity, you know and they don't agree with that. They say they should be able to discriminate against somebody who's trans.

James: but They are not asking the courts to simply say, hey, there's two sexes, man and woman, and that's bad. And we don't agree with these rules.

James: They're trying to, they are asking the courts, they petition to say Section 504 is unconstitutional, right? Section 504 of the Americans with Disabilities Act, it does a whole bunch of things.

James: It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with gender identity. identity It says, you know,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Of course.

James: You have to have you know you to have ah tools and machines that would work for people with wheelchairs. you know um You have to, like for a hospital, you know you have to you can't discriminate against somebody because they have a disability. you know ah Websites have to work with people who are blind or low vision. Schools must include students with disabilities. you know And they don't like that shit, man. Can't be teaching can't be teaching they don't want to teach kids with disabilities you know they want to make sure all those kids in the south can work so yes the gilded age yeah we exploit

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So I'm just going to take this back to pre -World War II, excuse me, pre -World War II Germany over and over again. um first First, we stop helping them. Then we're like, well, hey, look, these people aren't supported by our society. So we should probably just send them to the camps where they can get the support that they need. And then and then they go off to the, don't call it them a concentration camp.

James: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, there's, yeah when they get a little bit of hot water in their question and your question about why in the world would you try and do this Indiana, at least they're saying that they don't want to do it.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: Not because they want to discriminate just because it's too expensive. You know, expensive taking care of these damn people with disabilities. So stop doing that money.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: I'm sure Jesus would have agreed. Jesus would have agreed.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, you know, you can take like three point seven trillion dollars from ah ah from America's billionaires without reducing the number of billionaires.

James: yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But we can't afford to like to put in wheelchair ramps and have a disability teacher. That's cool. That's who we are.

James: Yeah. Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Great. Love that for us.

James: All in the, all in the, uh, the under the guise of saving money, you know.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: say anyway that's no because like That's what it is. You know what it is? like no no like that's That's really what America has been doing, right?

James: they want more movement for themselves.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like We've been spending you know like a few thousand dollars a kid on on kids with disabilities. you know We've been building all these ramps and like having teachers for them and like operating different buses.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And then we had to buy the other buses. like Sometimes the bus has a lift.

James: no

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: you know like All these doctor's offices with like ramps. that That adds up. And that is like that's why America is falling behind China. like that's really That's why we're losing our our spot in the world.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: you know Like that's, that's, and honestly, that's the first place that we should cut. Like it doesn't make sense to cut from anywhere else before cutting from like disabled children.

James: I know. I mean, that's, I mean, how many doors, how many doors could Pete Hegseth build with all that money?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. Like that's where we're spending most of our money there.

James: I mean,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Tell me, tell me about PXS emergency door.

James: and ah Oh, it wasn't the door. Sorry. It wasn't the door. The door reminded us of Ryan Zinke when Ryan Zinke was ah in the first Trump administration.

James: Uh, I think wasn't running. He was secretary of interior secretary.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Oh, was he like the EPA the epa guy?

James: I think it was secretary of interior, but, uh, But yeah, back then, I mean, he was the one just fricking milking the government for money, including like 150, he had the $150 ,000 door put in his office.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Somebody like had a skiff built. I thought it was the EPA guy i had like a skiff built in his a skiff is um it's an acronym for something like secure information facility, something like that.

James: Yeah. and Yeah.

James: Yeah. It's secure clearance.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: secure compartmentalized information facility.

James: and I'll tell you right now is see sensitive compartmented information facility and really it's a it's a room.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Okay. Yeah. It's basically just a place where you can talk about top secret stuff safely.

James: That's what it is. It's a room. It's a cards

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Okay. But it's not just a room. It's a room that is like soundproof and that has like special secure data connection, EMP protection.

James: against the electronic surveillance and things like that. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean like president.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: out I mean, it's a fancy room. Okay. But like, you know, you don't, We have them. you just you They're necessary. But you don't need them. The head of the EPA doesn't need one. and He's not out here talking about you know where the bodies are buried or what the nuclear codes are.

James: Correct.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So he doesn't need one.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But he had one built.

James: Well, I mean, honestly, the EPA, I mean, if you're actually even charged an EPA or even an Interior Secretary, there probably are times where you need to be in a skiff and talk about things.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And now, apparently, yeah, but you can go to one.

James: I mean, just thinking about nuclear facilities or something.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You don't need one in your office.

James: Exactly. Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And like the thing with this guy was like, the reason he wanted to skiff in his office is because he was the head of the EPA, but before that he was an oil lobbyist. So like he wasn't there to protect the environment.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: He was there to gut the agency that regulated his ability to drill and earn money from drilling by doing it more dirty.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And so he didn't want anyone to be able to hear him as he like did the horrible things.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: Yeah. So anyway, yeah, uh, Pete Hexeth, um, uh, well,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So wait, so what did, yeah, HEXF.

James: um Well, basically they but they build head had to get his house had to get worked on on this house, you know, I mean and so You know to your tax dollars our tax money just went to because no he's secretary of defense now, right? So now that you're such a defense it is time to fix the house on the taxpayer dime So he charged the government, you know, he charged taxpayers hundred and thirty seven thousand two hundred ninety seven dollars hundred and thirty seven thousand two hundred or ninety seven dollars You know we paid we gave you know our tax money to for his housing work, including $50 ,000, $49 ,900 for an emergency paint job on his house.

James: you know Because it's an emergency, man. I'm Secretary of Defense, man. No time like the president. You know and need to have it now.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: got You gotta, you gotta, you gotta paint over the, you know, all the the alcohol ah labels wallpaper that he had.

James: Yeah. Yeah. it's a four thousand

James: Yeah. So I mean, because he he going into he's going into government housing, I guess he's getting a new house as part of this that's technically owned by the government, right.

James: And so he's gonna go there. And of course, a house provided for me. Cool. Let's get it all fixed up, man. I want to have this place looking nice. So build the taxpayers $150 ,000 to live in a nice place as long as your secretary of defense, you know.

James: So

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So there is a $35 ,000 threshold for operation, maintenance, and repair of a government home that will be occupied by you him.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So he needed another $132 ,000 just to live.

James: Unless it's an emergency, I guess.

James: Yeah. Yeah. And they're worth, they're worth 3 million bucks. I mean him, he's worth $3 million. dollars He could afford to get his house painted himself. And I bet you if he paid for himself, it wouldn't cost $50 ,000 either. But yeah, he has a 77 acre home in Tennessee. That's worth 3 .2 million. You know,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: It's common for Secretaries of Defense to live in private housing, according to military dot .com, as former Biden administration Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin lived in a nearly $3 million 8 ,700 square foot house in Great Falls, Virginia while holding the position task and purpose reported.

James: he's got money yeah correct yeah yeah anyway but yeah he probably went into house house free painting because he wanted to touch the walls that a black person touched i bet you that's my take on that but why it was an emergency

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I mean, I guess he's moving in right away, so obnoxious.

James: Anyway, that was that yeah and Yeah, but waste fraud and abuse, you know, don't worry guys. We have Elon Musk Trying to make sure there's no waste fraud and abuse except for his own yeah So, yeah and luckily though luckily the courts have been so far Well, I mean we don't I still don't know for a fact I don't know if we know for a fact yet if the Trump administration is actually complying with all the court orders and But so far, the courts, including Trump appointees, are blocking everything they've been trying to do about firing everybody. You know, like, oh yeah, when they got rid of USAID. We talked about this a little bit last week, but we never touched on just how ridiculous it also was when they were like immediately saying, all right, everybody, you're all on unpaid administrative leave. That left, you know, thousands of people overseas.

James: because some of the people who work for USAID are in places like you know Libya or Syria or you know over the you know I mean they're they're they're all over the world in dangerous places and basically they were essentially told oh back to shit you're you're you're out of a job man find your own way out so but the courts stopped all that

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: oh yeah that's pretty

James: that they not only stopped everybody who was being fired, but they also ordered the Trump administration to re, what do you even call it?

James: like Rehire, you know, allow them back to work and pay the people, who the 500 people who they had already gotten rid of.

James: They stopped them on the FBI agents that they're trying to get rid of everybody in the FBI who has had any dealings with all of the illegality of the Trump administration on January 6th.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Oh yeah, that was pretty...

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I mean, for now, but they put out everyone's they put out enough information to know who everyone is.

James: name oh oh they actually the the acting uh the acting of the FBI actually gave them the names to the justice department not only just a list of the numbers he went ahead and they gave him all the names of every single person um yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Oh, great.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, OK, just.

James: in cash patel remember you talked about cash patel and got hauled off for a week and then you've heard the news right thirty thousand dollars from russia granted it's only thirty thousand dollars i'm sure he's i'm sure he's a lot slimier than thirty thousand dollars worth but you can talk about that one yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: her okay

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So the, the cash Patel thing was actually, let me go back to the Hegseth thing because so I Googled it and I found, I found two articles. The first one I was reading was, I don't remember the link, but it'll be in the show notes. It's in the notion now. Uh, but the second one was from Yahoo news. The Yahoo news one is interesting because it says that Pete Hegseth did not request.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: the $137 ,000 in repairs and upgrades to the military housing at Fort McNair that will become his residence, according to US official familiar with the work order, who says the army undertook the repairs on its own since the more than 100 year old home had sat vacant for a year and needed security upgrades.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, I mean, it's not like, it's not like, so I mean, I guess this is, you know, I guess that he said he, she said, but somebody from the military is saying,

James: That's what he said.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: He didn't request this. We're just fixing up the property that we're letting him use and that this is money being spent on military property, not Pete Hegcess property.

James: Well, if that's the official word of the Defense Department under the leadership of P. Hegseth, then I guess we have to assume that's true.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I mean, I don't know, man. I don't know what.

James: but Who knows, man?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: Who knows? But...

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I'm sure that like some of it is. Some of it makes sense, but also I'm sure that they probably had another place. They could have put him that they wouldn't have had to fix. You know?

James: Maybe. Yeah, sure.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. Or maybe they need to fix that place anyway. So I don't know. Maybe it's not as unreasonable. I still want to, you know, I want to hammer them when they need to be hammered, when they do something.

James: Shrimp.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: The ship, they should be hammered for, but I don't want to hammer them just to hammer them.

James: Hey, P. Hegseth can get hammered on his own by eight o 'clock in the morning, man. No, you can't talk with that. P. Hegseth can get hammered by nine o 'clock in the morning, as people have said at Fox News. He was always hammered.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's, that's true. Pete, Pete Hanks have hammers himself all the time.

James: so But he did say he's gonna, he he said he would be willing to stop drinking if he was confirmed.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, but he didn't say what, you know, he wasn't like, I'll stop drinking period, but no one assumes he's like never going to consume liquid again.

James: That's true.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You know?

James: Now, assuming things, other things people assume, Um, people assumed, uh, like Brian Tyler Cohen, they were laughing about this clip, you know, a Trump the other day in an interview, they were asking him if JD Vance is the next, uh, the next, uh, what do you call it?

James: Um, one waiting in the wings, you know, the heir apparent, heir apparent.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like they are apparent to the Republican party.

James: Yes. The heir to heir, you know, to continue on in 2028.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: The next Kamala Vance.

James: Yeah. They said, it's like is he your heir? Is he the one who's going to continue this mega thing in 2028? No. And he just didn't. and' Skip a beat Trump was nope. Nope.

James: No, I don't seem that way. No, I don't see that. He's a smart guy He's a smart guy and he's does this good thing. But no, I don't see him that way. I don't see them You know, I mean that's the last thing I'm thinking is it because he's not the air or is it because Trump's not planning on leaving in 2028?

James: is he not the air in for 2028 or both or is it because I

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: He both.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: all

James: Elon is the one running the show. And God, man, if we can play video, I really wish we could play that clip on an endless loop of Elon's kid sitting there taunting Donald Trump the whole time he's in the and in the Oval Office.

James: Donald Trump sitting there like a little kid at like a little like little desk. Elon Musk is standing over him with his stupid baseball hat and a little blue t -shirt with a jacket on and looking like a moron and talking about how

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: He looks like a dude wearing a nice coat, he looks fine.

James: and

James: yeah Yeah, baseball hats in the Oval Office. I'm sure that was allowed under every other president. But anyway, ah not that I really care that much. I'm not like fashion police, but generally speaking, it's the Oval Office is the Oval Office, you know, whatever. But either way, Trump sitting there like a little kid, Elon standing up there talking about how we don't really have a democracy anyway in this country. yeah We don't have a democracy. yeah We have a bureaucracy, you know. ah Meanwhile, yeah yeah, he's saying we don't have a democracy anyway. It's, you know, that's ah that's a lie.

James: And his kid is standing there and it wasn't just once. He said it multiple times. The kid just keeps looking at Donald Trump, walking over to Donald Trump, looking at him and going, I want you to shush your mouth, shush your mouth. I want you to shush your mouth. I want you to shush, shush your mouth, shush your mouth. I want you to shush your mouth. He just, I'm like, holy crap, man. And of course Donald Trump loves, well, he only loves young girls as far as kids go. You know what I mean?

James: but um

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: who we would who he would probably be dating one day.

James: Well, or, well, or maybe not dating, but he's done other things with little kids.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: No, I'm referring to like the the quote he made. like he like It was from 2016.

James: His daughter.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: It was somebody who's like ah you know i was like, oh, she's a very pretty young very pretty young lady.

James: I was thinking about the Epstein files.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like Maybe I'll be dating her and in 10 years or so.

James: o Yeah, I was, my mind was going to the Epstein files that Donald Trump's name's fucking all over.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That too.

James: Yeah. ah But yeah, in the, fucking miss teen miss teen universe or whatever how you always used to walk in there on the little girls and stuff like that is creepy anyway yeah yeah yeah but um yeah I thought it was pretty interesting though that Elon's kid just kept telling him to shush his mouth and Trump hates kids usually he's just sitting there like this look on his face is kind of funny in a way but yeah still kind of sad because

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yes very creepy.

James: they're trying man they're trying to just get rid of democracy and uh yeah anyway god

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So a couple of other things we can choose which to jump around to, but I've been hearing about, um, well, RFK jr. Was confirmed. I'm sure there's going to be some, some fallout from that. And then also, uh, excuse me. Then also, uh, Trump is, is ordering federal agencies to study reciprocal tariffs, you know,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: After a year of of saying, yeah, we're just we're going to do tariffs now is the time to learn what they actually do. um And also I heard he announced some steel tariffs.

James: Yep, aim to Canada Which is probably gonna be blocked in court at least for a while.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. And then also there are federal employee layoffs beginning at the Department of Education.

James: Yeah Yeah, they're trying to they're trying to hollow out the entire government I mean basically they're trying to holler

James: which is probably going to be blocked in court at least for a while yeah

James: yeah they're trying to they're trying to hollow out the entire government i mean basically they're trying to hollow

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But so like but like the thing with these yeah like the thing with these layoffs, like you were talking about the USAID ones earlier, and like even with them like reversing some of that after courts, some of that doesn't matter.

James: Mm hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: The people who were in this hospital, the hospital stopped getting supplies, stopped getting funding, the patients had to leave, you know the doctors had to leave, the hospital shut down, they can't just like turn it

James: Yeah.

James: Mm hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You can't just turn a whole hospital off and on, you know, every few days.

James: Correct.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So like with with a lot of these things.

James: That's their goal. That's their goal. Destroy it. Doesn't matter if it's legal or not. Doesn't matter if it sticks in court or not. If you can kill it and destroy everything. And then the court says, Oh, well, you can't do that.

James: they' like Oh, okay. Oops, my bad. It's already destroyed. That's what their goal is.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. Like where people, you know, not everyone can afford to just like be indefinitely not receiving a paycheck.

James: Working ball everything.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So as people are getting, you know, funding freezes, paycheck freezes and whatever.

James: yeah and Yeah, the letter they're sending to everybody. Yeah, there's the letter they're sending there everybody says the agency finds based on your performance, based on your performance, you have not demonstrated that your further employment at the agency would be in the public interest.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, they got to have grounds.

James: Well,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I think I didn't realize initially too was like with the ah fork in the road letter.

James: well

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: They sent that to like everybody in the FBI and everybody in the CIA and everybody who works in like the federal prison system.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like all federal employees, which is hundreds of thousands of people, which is, you know, it's like a shocking number of important things that you don't want to just like, Oh, we'll just fire up all the, all the people.

James: um

James: Huh? Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, You know, it's like a lot of those jobs are really doing really important stuff where even if you were determined to change who was doing that work, you probably don't want to just like have them all resign immediately, you know.

James: yeah

James: but I mean, here, I mean, they want to get rid of the whole thing anyway. They want to get rid of the Department of Education. I mean, they want to. They want to get rid of everything, which is so funny too, man. I mean, God, the amount of money they spend, all these things, the the amount of, even if they got rid of all of these agencies completely. Right. It's, I mean, like I was trying to find that tweet that Elon put out about, like, uh, about, uh, consumer financial protection board. They want to get rid of that, return all the money of these agencies back to the people. Right.

James: I think they had something like $700 million in their account for funding of the Consumer Financial Protection burden Board. It's like, that money needs to go back to the citizens. And that sounds like a lot of money if you can't do math. you know Considering what the department does and how much money it saves people and how much you know how much Americans have benefited from it, $700 million dollars is nothing.

James: you know um Department of Education the amount of money they spend I mean yeah the savings are a joke the savings are just it's to kind of make dumb people believe that they're cutting costs and being good for the you know the spending of the country so they can jam through trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I mean, that's what the So the Department of Education does like that, the ADA act stuff we're talking about at the beginning, that's what the Department of Education does. That's one of their big things is that they, they send states the funding for, you know, special needs kids, you know, like that's the really disingenuous thing about the the Texas lawsuit.

James: Exactly. But they don't need to be taught. make Make the parents of those kids have to pay for everything themselves. Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Cause it's like, Texas isn't even paying for it. The federal government is paying for it.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So for them to be like at the state level, like, Oh, we don't want to do it because it's expensive. Like, like, but it. Like California is actually paying for it. Texas. What the fuck are you talking about?

James: Yeah. It's never, yeah, it's.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Every accusation, a confession.

James: Yeah. So what would, what would people rather have? I'm, I'm hoping if anybody listens, anybody else had at least one point gone through what I did. I think you did Gabe back in the day. I think almost everybody did. It used to be when you used your debit card, right?

James: Let's say you're not flush with cash, but you got money. Say you got a, you know, 500 bucks in your account and you would have to make, you made a couple of small purchases, you know, $5, $10, $20, $15, $20. And then you had one charge that was, Oh crap. That one was going to put me over that big charge at the, you know, like four days later. Oh man. That made me dip like $2 below my balance. Right.

James: and You and you knew you were gonna get an overdraft charge if you didn't get that money in your account right that before that day's over What they would do what the banks used to do all the time all the big banks did it they would leave all of your transactions in a pending state for like weeks on end and Then they always did that purposefully because then if you're if your account ever went negative off of the last transaction and they would then go process them in reverse order and make the biggest one that happened a week later, go first, and then process a whole bunch of small ones afterward afterwards, afterwards, to try to pop you with, to try to make you get multiple overdraft fees, even if, you know, the other ones were days earlier, you know, that alone has saved people, God, millions, millions, millions of dollars.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, they process them in, in, in, uh, descending order of size.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Okay. That happened to me. Like my first, my first bank account was with fifth third.

James: Mm hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And I got beat up in exactly that way. You know, like I was. Part -time minimum wage job. I'm like 18. I'm like riding my bicycle to work You know, I have like a few hundred dollars and like, you know, no financial literacy and Total or like per year

James: Yeah, and actually, that one rule, that one rule, right, actually saved US people like the US population, it saved us five, it saved people $5 billion dollars in charges. Just from that one change, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau did.

James: five billion total uh oh that was annual that was annually five five billion dollars annually people got back yeah so that's how much people have saved just from that one rule of them now Elon Musk says we gotta get the money that the CFPB has and give it back to the Americans that would be two dollars one time there's

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, I was gonna say, that sounds like an annual number. And that's like 15, 20 years ago at this point.

James: Think about how many people are in the world.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: ah Yeah.

James: You know, there's 350 million people in America. That's two bucks a pop. So what would you rather do? Have collectively Americans pay $5 billion dollars a year more or get a one -time check, I guess, for $2?

James: There you go.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, I'll take the i'll take the check.

James: Yeah.

James: He'll take the check for $2. Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah, and you can use that you could use that $2 to pay for all of the stuff for your special needs child because $2 I mean, that is going to go a long way to paying for all those things that your special needs kids, you know, needs out of pocket because you know, cost too much for the for the doctor's office to put in a ramp.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Exactly. I'll build my own ramp.

James: You know, yeah, I'll build my own ramp for that $2 I got $2 back.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: exactly ah build my own ram for For $2, I got $2.

James: Yeah. Yeah, it's evil. It's evil. And the sad thing is people buy it. People buy it all the time. It's the same people who need help from the federal government, the same people who try to collect benefits and try to cheat on their taxes and try and do all these old things here.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Aren't they talking but talking about getting rid of the IRS also?

James: You know, they're all talking bad about the government. They're the ones, who you know, the ones cheering it on the most. What's that?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Are they talking about getting rid of the IRS?

James: Well, they've talked talked about stuff like that for a while, but I i don't, I mean, they've been talking about stuff like that. I don't think they really want to get rid of the IRS. They just don't want the IRS being doing audits on rich people, which kind of goes hand in hand with the other thing the Department of Justice announced earlier this week, which is they are no longer going to investigate white collar crime.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Really?

James: They're gone.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: They just said they're just not going to do it at all?

James: Yep.

James: Nope. And the FARA, you know, the ah FARA, Foreign Affairs, Foreign Affairs Registration Act, they also announced they are no longer going to enforce that.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: foreign agent registration act you mean.

James: Yeah, foreign agent Foreign Agents Registration Act, you know, for things like when, um you know, correct.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Ah, so you don't have to register as a foreign agent to act in to the benefit of a foreign government.

James: Correct. Yeah, so that way you could be, say, a Defense Secretary, or crackpot health and human services secretary and you could be a president right and you could be getting paid by a foreign government millions and millions of dollars to make public policy in America be with that country once and you no longer even have to disclose it

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Wait, wait, could you be president? Interesting.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But you but but surely you couldn't be like i don't know like you could surely you couldn't be like Elon Musk doing that, right? like That wouldn't be allowed.

James: It wouldn't be allowed. I think it'd be encouraged if it was Elon Musk. I mean, yeah, but yeah, I got you.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That was a slow roll on the sarcasm too much, I guess.

James: Yes, I know. But, uh, oh, so what's that? So they're not going to enforce FARA anymore. They're not going after white collar crime anymore. Um, they remember they were the FEC chairman.

James: They wanted to get rid of the f FEC chairman. Right. Um, because, you know, we, we don't want to worry about, you know, free and fair elections anymore. So yeah.

James: Yeah. Yeah, so...

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Oh yes, they did. So like the, um, the FEC I know a little bit about is I actually listened to interview with this person. So the FEC was set up to be, um, a bipartisan committee.

James: Yep, there's three Democrats, three

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So yes, it's always got three Democrats and three Republicans. And every, every year they choose a new person from among their six people to be the chairperson.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And it always has to be from. the opposite party of who it was last year.

James: Yep.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: um And so this year it was a Democrat and she had been there for ah like 20 something years.

James: For a long time. Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: She had been working there. um And it's important that they ah get rid of someone because if they get rid of someone, then they no longer have a quorum and they can't make any decisions.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So they fired this

James: Illegally.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, they illegally fired this person who like they're not they're not allowed to fire them. It's part of it's part of the act that like set this up is making it so that they, you know, they can't they can't pull it for partisan reasons.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, yeah, so like she actually is considering her options because her firing is illegal and it keeps the the board from being able to do anything. And it's really similar to what they did with the national labor relations board. They, they fired one of the people on that board. I don't remember how many people that is or which person they fired, but they fired somebody on that board so that they can no longer make decisions. They can no longer make rulings. And one of the types of rulings that they do is like when, um, when the employees of a certain business, um, like say Amazon, like say you are like a shipping facility, like a warehouse, uh, an Amazon warehouse somewhere.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: uh, and you decided to form a union, you would then go to the national labor relations board and say, Hey, we decided to form a union and they would approve your union, uh, you know, if you did it properly. Uh, and so this happened actually, they, some Amazon warehouse workers formed a union. It's the first time that it had happened. And then they fired one of the people off of the national labor relations board, which made it so that the board cannot,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: vote because it can't vote unless it has a quorum. And so without one person, it can't vote. So that union was like, yeah, that you're not recognized as a union because the National Labor Relations Board didn't officially approve you.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So yeah.

James: Yep, so Anyway, so Illegally firings and so far all the illegal firings are getting Trump judges are ruling in some and I mean But I haven't seen any news stories. I don't know if you've had any, we haven't had time this week really, but I haven't seen any news that the people are actually able to come back to work after the court's rule that they have to. So yeah, I've really been waiting to try to see that. You know what I mean? Because I see that they keep blocking it. And the Department of Justice lawyers, if you're watching these,

James: lawyer shows or podcasts like democracy watch, democracy doc, you know, these other things here, like Glenn Kirchner, and Mark Elias, all these guys, they're all i mean it's it's it's proven fact Department of Justice doesn't lose.

James: I mean, when they take a court to case to court, they win like 98 99 % of the time, because they don't take things to court unless they have a soda button, perfect, absolutely rock solid, slam dunk case, they don't take stuff to court, unless they win.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mm.

James: But department justice has to keep going to court to try to defend themselves against all these illegal moves that trump is doing and so uh department of justice man they are losing they are like bad they are literally batting zero so far i don't think they've won a case yet all this stupid shit he's doing keeps getting blocked um but i haven't seen any evidence that they are a biting by the law or that what's happening after the courts rule this you know so um yeah maybe I'll be for next week I'm really trying to spend a week to try and see if the fact that they keep losing in court matters if because I mean Jackson Trump always said Andrew Jackson was his favorite president and we all know why Andrew Jackson was his favorite president in addition to committing genocide and killing tons and tons of Indians

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Wow.

James: One of the most famous things happened was that the Cherokee Nation won in the US s Supreme Court at their treaty, saying that, yeah, with the United States government, you cannot remove them from their land.

James: That is their land. It's a treaty. It's binding. No, Jackson, you lose. And then he famously just, you know, sent the military in there and said, give a big middle finger to the court, you know, to the Supreme Court and just did it anyway.

James: Said, you know, hey, go ahead and enforce it. And he just sent the military in anyway and then killed all the Indians and moved on with their land, the Trail of Tears and all that, you know.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Hm.

James: So that's his favorite president for a reason. And I'm wondering, with all these people with all the cash pattels and Pete Hegseth's and the frickin' dumb, I don't mean mean to make a dumb blonde joke, but the dumb blonde press secretary, all these people who have no soul and were just working for him and doing whatever the hell they want, you know, do you really think that any of them are gonna be the types to do a Mike Pence move and say, no, that's a red line I'm all across. Supreme Court said that's illegal, we are not gonna do that.

James: i I don't believe any of them will stand up for the rule of law.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, no, they got rid of all those guys the first time.

James: Yeah. expect I mean, they're actually doing the whole oaths.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like, they're...

James: I mean, they're even the the loyalty oaths you know to Donald Trump.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, they sweated all that out. They sweated all those, you know, rhinos out last time.

James: Yep. That also makes me think of Inauguration Day, which I don't think we ever talk about this either. On Inauguration Day. did it maybe we did talk about it uh i know this is really no no no no no about what he uh that how he he he forgot to put his hand on the bible remember how people always wear a note on the bible he did that yeah he just he didn't even touch it he's like malani sustained there holding a book like an idiot and he just yeah but yeah i don't i don't believe any of these people are gonna actually give a shit about the law

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Brought the flag.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Oh yeah, I did see that, yeah. well you didnt Dude, you don't wanna burst into flames at your inauguration.

James: I mean, they don't, they haven't yet, so...

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, but okay, on the topic of people giving a shit about the law, um the U .S. Attorney, I was looking for her name.

James: Oh!

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I think it's Daniel Sassoon, the Attorney General from a Southern District of New York.

James: Yes, Eric Adams. Yes, the difference.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Her and two officials in Washington resigned after the Justice Department ordered charges against Eric Adams, Mayor of New York, to be dropped.

James: so

James: Mm hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And then if you're looking at it like, if you're looking at New York Times website, like right next to that is

James: Told you.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: ah after meeting with Trump's borders are Adams opens Rikers to ICE agents.

James: Mm hmm. Told you.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, I mean, the tit for tat is just right there in the top three headlines.

James: Told you last week. I think I told you last week is last week or the week before when I said, tell Eric Adams, you know, the feds, prosecutors going after him for corruption and all that stuff. And he's like, yeah, he's just making a deal with Trump to stay out of prison, you know.

James: So of course you got somebody to take him bribes and super corrupt politician.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: He goes, Oh, Hey, don't go after me and I'll help you do all your illegal unconstitutional shit here in New York too. There you go.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So like if they're not processing white collar crime, does that mean that now is like the best time to white collar crime?

James: Yeah, of course.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Okay, well, I mean, we should definitely get on that.

James: and it I mean, It's kind of like if you're the president of the United States and the Supreme Court said, hey, you cannot be investigated, prosecuted, tried, nothing you do can be used against you. You are immune. What is the best time to start committing crimes? Once you have your immunity, you know, the Department of Justice isn't going to look into any white collar crimes. There you go. Go for it. Unfortunately, you know, most of us don't make enough money to, uh, go after the kind of white collar criming that the Department of Justice used to look into, you know, but

James: you know, but hey, maybe you can tell certain family members of yours, maybe they can start, you know, making extra money, you know?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I'll pass that along.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, I'll let them know.

James: yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Now's your time.

James: But yeah, so the district, yeah, they're retiring now, right? Yeah.

James: department Justice Department lawyers quitting, ah pro like, you know, resigning in protest because it's ah such a flagrant. Oh, God.

James: I mean, it was a slam dunk case against him, too, but it's Eric Adams. It was a slam dunk case. And instead of a slam dunk case taking out a corrupt, corrupt mayor, they're just, oh, we're going to drop everything.

James: We're going to drop everything. You know, it's horrible.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Are you familiar with the, I think it's called the Treaty of Munich?

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Tell us, tell us about it.

James: All right. Why are we bringing that up right now, though?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: um Because I think that's what's happening with ah Trump and Putin and Ukraine.

James: Oh, OK. All right. Well, I mean, oh, oh, that's right. The Ukraine stuff. Well, I'll i'll give the podcast shortened ah summary.

James: I'll get the CliffsNotes version. Right.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: right

James: All right. 38, 1938. pre -World War II, Germany after World War I wasn't supposed to have weapons, they demilitarized, and Hitler started rearming against their treaties, right?

James: They started sending troops in there to, it was a student land or something like that, right? Student land, yeah. Where was it though? It was, ah I don't, oh, it was Czechoslovakia, right?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: All right.

James: Was it, yeah, Czechoslovakia. Yeah, okay, yes, Czechoslovakia. So yeah, as a border area on the check, you know, well, now then Czechoslovakia, now Czech Republic, whatever you want to call it. Right. And, um, yeah, they basically marched in, just annexed it, took it over.

James: Right. And the West during countries, France, Britain, uh, is, uh, yeah, France, Britain, they were just like, basically they wanted to make peace.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yes, I was ah Germany, Italy, Great Britain, France.

James: Yeah. They wanted to make peace and say, Hey, Hey, we don't have to go to war over this here. You take this, you take this. Sorry. Go ahead and take it. We don't know where, you know,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mm -hmm.

James: And it's what everybody sells. just Everybody says, appeasement. Appeasement didn't work in World War II. Appeasement didn't work. It never works, you know? That's what they're talking about. It's like the original appeasement in the modern era.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, so Hitler had threatened to unleash European war unless Su Dintin land ah border area of Czechoslovakia containing an ethnic German majority was surrendered to Germany.

James: Yeah. Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Leaders of Britain, France nearly agreed to the German annexation of the Sudan land in exchange for a pledge of peace from Hitler.

James: There you go.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Czechoslovakia, which was not a party to the Munich negotiations, agreed under significant pressure from Britain and France.

James: Not a party. Not a party to the negotiations over their own territory. Yes, that's where we're going with it.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, you know, so basically Hitler was like, hey, give me this land or I'm going to, I'm going to take it. And they were like, all right, we'll give it to you. And they gave it to him. And, you know, we all know how that went because he didn't go, all right, I got everything that I wanted.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I'll just sit at home fat and happy. He thought, cool, that worked. Let's do it again.

James: Now just imagine how much more Britain could have gotten if Winston Churchill was given a Churchill Tower. He probably could have gotten the whole country of Czechoslovakia.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: A church hill tower. What do you mean?

James: Yeah, like kind of like a Trump Tower, you know?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Ah, yes, I see.

James: yes Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: um ah What would you call it? America Churchill.

James: yeah So yeah, Putin, ah Donald Trump has been talking to Putin a lot without Ukraine, and he he doesn't feel, it's anybody's business to know how often he and Putin talk, because people are asking like, hey, when have you guys been talking?

James: We talk, we talk. I don't want to tell you how often we talk. I mean, I don't know, how often?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But Russia, is Russia still like denying or not confirming that they're speaking?

James: I don't know.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And I knew initially, like Trump was like, oh, yeah, we talked the other day.

James: He denied it like a week ago.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And then Russia was like, ah, no comment.

James: Yeah, it doesn't really matter. I mean, I mean, you can't trust anything that comes out of Trump's mouth. You can't trust anything that comes out of Putin's mouth. So I don't really give a shit what they say.

James: You know, I mean, hey, they were denying they were denying any kind of context or collusion in the 2016 campaign.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I'd say yes.

James: And then, you know, I have a book back here.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: The server in Trump Tower.

James: I have a book back here called The Mueller Report. but And it's pretty big and it details how that was a bunch of shit, like a crock of shit. They were colluding the whole time, you know?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: So I don't really care what they say. ah

James: Trump, Putin. I'm trying to see if they've confirmed any of them. I mean, it's four days ago, he claims multiple calls with Putin, right? Again, you don't know. We never know. We never know. Because Trump says an awful lot of things that don't happen. I mean, was Putin one of those people who said, sir, sir, sir, tears in his eyes, you know you know, tears in his eyes, begging him to end the war and telling Trump what a great man he is? I don't know. You know, none of those stories are true. You know,

James: Trump tells all these stories. He talked about, remember he was talking about the, when Trump was talking about, I talked to the, the head of the New York Stock Exchange. And he told me he's a, I mean, he's the head of the New York Stock Exchange, very important man. And he came to me and he was like, thank you, president Trump. Thank you. Blah, blah, blah. And it turned out the whole thing was bullshit because the person who was in charge of the New York Stock Exchange isn't even a guy. It's a woman. So.

James: you know he makes stuff up all of the time you remember he was talking about the helicopter crash and it wasn't him really brown he makes stuff up so often just whole cloth just makes it up and just starts rambling on you know never said he was

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I was thinking about the helicopter crash. Are you still next? You're going to tell me that he wasn't like he wasn't on a sinking boat. That was an all electric boat. And then there were sharks in the water. That didn't happen.

James: that he never said that happened. He was always that was a is one of his little dementia moments where he was just, you know, just thinking out loud about the possibilities, you know, like, you know, again, like maybe you stick a light up a really strong, powerful light up your ass, or you stick bleach in your veins.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Imagining out loud.

James: I mean, he he riffs, he just comes up with these things. Sometimes these scenarios, he just plays them out in his head and diary of the mouth comes out all over the country. You know,

James: So who knows if it really did or not. I don't doubt that they've been talking. They've been giving him money his whole life. They've been keeping him afloat for decades and decades and decades, you know, money laundering. I mean, God. So I wouldn't doubt they've talked. And Dimitri Pescov, yeah, they said he can either confirm nor deny. So they didn't say anything.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, they said nothing.

James: Yeah, they said communications between Moscow and Washington occur through different channels, which means nothing. It could be Konstantin Kalimnik or somebody going back in there. It could be him sending some other agents in there.

James: It could be him having hookers go pee on him and pass a note, you know?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I mean, like so i mean we so we know appeasement didn't work in the 30s. We know appeasement didn't work now because 2022 is 10 years after, well, 2022 was eight years after 2014 when they invaded and took Crimea and part of Donbass anyway. So, you know, appeasement with Putin in particular, even if we're not just going to like the historical appeasement, you know, of Hitler, appeasement didn't work with Putin last time. He came for more. yeah He's already come for more. He's in the middle of the coming for more part right now.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So we know that like giving him anything is just going to mean that he comes for more later anyway.

James: No.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: um Yeah, so is it's a huge mess. I don't think it's going to work. like how How do you think it's going to go? like do you think What do you think so the sort of agreement's going to be? like Do you think he's going to give? ah you know is Is he just going to make a deal with Putin? because like ah Ukraine's still going to have to, you know, decide on their own, you know, they're going to have to agree to the terms, you know, America can't just negotiate on behalf of Ukraine.

James: Well. what Well, they're also saying there's other bullshit too to Ukraine like trying to pressure them to have elections because you know That was one of the Putin's latest propaganda things.

James: Well, they can't really negotiate with Zelensky. He's not really a president. He's a dictator. He's he's illegitimate Just pretty rich coming from Putin. He's illegitimate because he's he's illegitimate because they haven't had elections He was supposed to leave office and they didn't even allow elections ignore the reason why

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's really rich.

James: They didn't have election. He just keeping himself in like a dictator and then brought Fox News and now Fox News and Tucker Carlson and all these people in the room, right?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So the guy who's been rigging elections

James: They're all just going on and on. Just calling the Zillensky dictator, you know, and they're all like, he's a dictator. He's a dictator. I mean, let's just like Tucker Carlson to this obnoxious interview. Um, Oh, who was it with God?

James: It was a couple of weeks ago and he's like, well, can't we just agree that he's a dictator? He's a dictator. There's no elections. He's like, no, I disagree. He's a dictator. Well, if he was,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Even so here's problem with that even even if you.

James: but they went him move the head but But here's the thing, hold on. because we want Trump is now trying to pressure them, and he's having his general, you know who is supposed to be the one in charge of these Ukraine negotiations, which everybody was kind of surprisingly happy with. Like, hey, this guy's actually pretty good. Maybe maybe Ukraine won't get screwed over so bad.

James: Even he's now kind of using the Trump slash Putin line that Ukraine needs to have elections. Ukraine needs to have elections, right? And if you got 20 % of your country under a Russian occupation, how do those people vote? You know,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Exactly. That's exactly the point that I was going to make is like, how do you, how do you have ah an election?

James: at the end of a barrel of a gun.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, so, okay. So here's a counterpoint to that. Okay. Let's say that, you know, do you think, okay, Ukraine really needs to have elections and, and there's no, there's no way that you can have the 20 % of the country that's occupied by Russia.

James: They agree. Ukraine agrees. They have to know.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: There's no way for you to hold elections in those parts. So. If you have an election in the rest of the country, isn't that still a legitimate election?

James: I'm sorry, can you repeat that one more time? Sorry, my child community.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like, couldn't they just have an election in the rest of the country?

James: Well, that's pretty unfair. Also, I mean, here, there's a number of ways you can look at it. Any way you slice it, it's not a fair election. Let's just cut out all the people who are behind in Russian occupation, who can't vote.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mm -hmm.

James: And let's say their women are getting raped and their men are getting mutilated and decent.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Oh, because they are. They absolutely are.

James: I know, I'm just telling everybody to imagine this. So the women are getting raped and guys are getting mutilated and their kids are being taken and put on buses and trains and sent off to God knows where to have God knows what happened to them.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: To Russia to be re -educated and to say to soldier school.

James: but and And not only that, a lot of them are also being subject to rape and you know, trafficking and stuff and a horrible abuses.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. Yes.

James: So, all right. like I think they would probably really want to make sure that the person who won the the next election in Ukraine wants to liberate them from this that existence. But they won't be able to. And let's say some of the people, who are all the people who are voting, man, man I'm back here in Kiev now, granted, I mean, mostly Ukraine, I think these they don't want to give up their land, they don't want to do that. But there's a lot more people who maybe don't really feel like continuing this war that's been

James: for the last year and a half two years kind of slow moving lines but a little bit distance of yeah they're tired of the war or war fatigue we can't win we can't win let's just cut our losses get a piece deal i'm tired of worrying about missiles flying in here every so often yeah this thing's just dragging on i don't want to be sent to the front lines for until i die you know there's a lot of things like that

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: There's a lot of this sentiment, there's a lot of this sentiment that like we can't, we can't win.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But you have, but so you have these, two you have these two competing ideologies. Like I think that are really prominent. One of them is, um, okay. Like I don't think we can win and we don't,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like, what's good? Like, what's the alternative here? We're just going to keep fighting until everyone's dead. That's not a good solution. Okay. That's one. The competing thing is like all of the people who have lost people. And this is a huge number of people.

James: Hmm I don't just want to give everything up to Russia because yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Everybody has lost friends, family, people that they know. Everyone. And what those people like saying are like, look, we lost all these people. We've lost most of a generation, a generation that stood up to tyranny and said, we're not going to be Russian pawn.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: We're going to. We're going to have our democracy. We're going to do the revolution of dignity. We're going to try to join NATO. We're going to join the European Union.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like we we wouldn't be a part of the world. And but like most of the people in that generation have died in this war. And so the other competing mindset is like, if we just give up, what did they die for?

James: i yeah that too the and I would say no.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like, you know what I mean? And so like, that is a hugely powerful sentiment as well. And so like, the so the thinking is like, if you like, yes, like you, there's no way to hold a perfect election, but is an imperfect, I guess it's the question then becomes, is an imperfect election better than no election?

James: because, well, in their case, in Ukraine's case right now, I would say no. They cannot afford to have an imperfect election with, I'm sure would be, I'm sure it'd be minimal Russian interference into their election, right? I mean, i they can't afford to have an imperfect election. They can't afford to have somebody who maybe is paid for by Russia or loyal to Russia, who talks the talk and acts nice and is willing, to waiting to sell them out, you know?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And I, I guess the other thing to think about too, is that like, if you're like, uh, like even in the case of America, I mean, but I mean everywhere, but like, definitely we just saw it in America's, we just had an election.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like an election is inherently an incredibly divisive thing.

James: Yep.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And in this case, you have these two groups that have really strong feelings.

James: Mm -hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And so the election is going to like tear apart the country at a time when they need unity.

James: that's another thing too.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You know, so instead of, instead of.

James: and the Yeah, it's like, you just want this, you just want this, you just want this.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: instead of staying together, people will start to fight for political parties.

James: and Imagine when everybody starts taking me, and I bet you that would be the big acquisition. I bet you that's all you'd have to do in election time. Have one side start accusing the other ones of being pro -Russia or willing to sell out to Russia or something, right?

James: Even if you are the Russian puppet, right? You're gonna accuse the other person of it, whatever. Sorry, oh, yeah, well, hey, how did they even do this? How did they do this? Yeah, how did they go through the South so fast to beginning the war?

James: Hey, those are your appointees. Hey, you did this, or you did... And then nobody trusts each other. When people stop trusting each other, they, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's a nasty thing.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: So, I personally...

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I mean, and for sure, you know, like, you know, for sure Russia is going to like put a massive influence campaign and a whole bunch of money behind and like, you know, they'll give them, then there's going to be political events and that's going to give them chances to try to assassinate people.

James: a Oh, yeah, exactly. That's and just yeah, they are dying. They're dying to put their guy back in there.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: It's like, like, in addition to like the inherent divisiveness of an election, like all of these other, all these other problems.

James: That's the whole thing that made them start invading anyway.

James: Exactly.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: You go all the way back to 2014.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So like they can, so they can't have an election.

James: That's why you go all the way back to 2014 man. I mean, that's why they went they they lost their puppet. They had they wanted to roll in, you know.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mmhmm.

James: They don't have a puppet right now. They need to have an election. We can't. We can't talk to them. We need to have a chance to put our puppet back in charge.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mmhmm.

James: You know what I mean? so So... Yeah, I mean... but I mean, yeah, Russia's been... been moving in, getting appeasement everywhere, you know? I mean, there's Transnistria, right? 1992, you know?

James: um there's There's all these other places here. South of Sheshia. There's all these different places here. i mean There's lots of little places where the Russians always kind of go in.

James: right they They don't leave. When Russians go in, they don't leave.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: yeah

James: It's like the Nazis. you know There is no... like Like the whole bullshit about the DPR and LPR.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: Donetsk People's Republic. Luhansk People's Republic. that was that was like basically a creation of russia you know just say oh well there's a bunch of russians in there so we're gonna put a whole bunch of troops in here and they're separatists they want to be part of us no no i wanted i still haven't um

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. Did, did you, did you watch 20 days in Mary Upple? So,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: ah Okay, so 20 Days in Mariupol is a documentary, um, about the invasion and of Mariupol. And so at the beginning of the war, like this is one of the first towns that was occupied.

James: I see just big, big city, you know?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And there was a lot of, there was a lot of sentiment among people in that, like there was division in that city. Like there were some people who, when Russia was talking about like coming in to protect the like Russian speakers and like bring back the people who wanted to be a part of Russia into the fold.

James: Some people believed it. Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: There were some people there who were like, yeah, like I want to be a part of Russia.

James: oh Didn't fare well for any of them.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So then Russia came to this town, and there was you know there was um there was a subset of of press. And they mostly left until there was like this one last guy, his it was like his crew, and it was two or three people.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: It was one guy, a camera guy, and like another guy.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I'm critically not knowing exactly how many people it was, but it was like it was like two or three guys. And they were the last ones and they didn't leave and they just kept documenting things. So for a while, like they were, I think a BBC affiliate and they had like a satellite phone. So they were hiding, they were moving around, hiding, trying to evade the, the Russian forces as they took over more and more of the town or city, really. That's not a town. It's, it's big. But as they took over more and more of the city and the, like as the, as things progressed and so like they, they did.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: a lot of the same stuff that like Israel did to Gaza, like they cut off the food, they cut off the water. They started taking people's homes and they didn't care. Like even the people who were like cheering for them to come in, those people were like getting shot, you know, cause like, Oh, they're driving a car down the street, just shoot it.

James: yeah

James: Yeah, run them over the tank just to anything Yeah,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And like, they would just shoot those people or they'd rolled over with a tank or they would like, you know, blow out the side of the building. Like they didn't care.

James: ye they blew up maternity hospitals are just by killing everybody mass graves just yeah, just killing everybody killing

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And yeah, So this movie documents the invasion from people who were there 20 days worth before they finally escaped and got all the footage out, because they were only able to upload limited clips with the sat phone. Because you can't get, it's just not enough connection to get tons of video and images out. But all these news stories. And as this stuff was coming out, Russia was like, deny, deny, deny. So even those people who are separatists cheering for Russia to come,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like lots of those people lived in a lot of the regions where there's been conflict and they've just destroyed the the whole towns.

James: yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like even in the, even in the case of Mary Upple, like they, so they immediately started like rebuilding.

James: That's what they do everywhere. That's what they're doing everywhere.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And now like the places where people used to live now it's like this, like fancy, freshly built condos for Russian people. It's um almost like a.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like you know how like detroit Detroit had like a renaissance where it like became like like all the property values plummeted until like millennials came in and started like building you know hipster, this and that.

James: That's what they do. je

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like you know That's kind of like what's happening there, except instead of hip hipsters, it's fascists.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: yeah Yeah. So like letting them in isn't good for anyone.

James: No. Yeah. Yep. So.

James: Yeah. I mean, there's not.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I mean, I want an Oscar. You should definitely, I think it's on YouTube.

James: Yeah, I know. I've been, I've wanted to see it. Nobody here, I mean. It's not that they don't want to see it. It's just there's you know they don't think their stomach would handle it and they think it'd be too awful to watch.

James: I do want to watch i've been want to watch that thing for so long. At the same time, I've seen a lot of the film footage of this Ukraine -Russia war. you know i mean I've been watching it every day, you know so it's not like it's going to shock me.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like when I, when I saw that, like it was really, Like it was really heartbreaking because like all the, all the images and all the little stories from it were like, this was my first time seeing them.

James: um Yeah.

James: yeah

James: Oh, well.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And it's just like, it just rips your heart out to, to watch like all of it happen and just how it progressed so fast in just a few weeks. And like, uh, you know, I was watching it with my wife and she had followed along with all of it as it was happening.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So like she had already cried over all of it.

James: yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You know, like it was already like, it was like, Oh yeah, I cried over that two years ago. And she's like, she knew every single story that that came out in it. Cause she remembered when it, when it happened, when it broke.

James: yeah it's awful the things that are happening to them are awful no there is another school of thought hanging back to the like the whole Ukrainian election things i mean at the same time longer the place is occupied by Russia the less and less chances are sounds horrible getting people out of there you know i mean i mean they're systematic it is genocide over there they are going bananas to try to kill everybody who's Ukrainian who supports Ukraine. You know, there's people obviously plenty of people are there. So and they're trying to act like they're all pro Russia. You know, they I mean, there's an FSB people in there that do anything else or keep taking kids or killing.

James: but they are making an effort to systematically get rid of all of the Ukrainians and get rid of all their language and kill all the people and destroy all of their houses and destroy all their monuments and get it rid of any anything that has a trace of Ukraine, Museum and replace it with Russia shit.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: the museums and the history and the art.

James: I mean, so the longer the battle lines are kind of like stalemated, you know, like it is the places that are behind those front lines I mean, it is the definition of ethnic cleansing, you know what I mean?

James: That's what they're trying to do. So, you know, uh, maybe it's best as well having a life.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: It's like giving up, giving up on Ukraine really is like giving up on

James: Humanity that is more like, I

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: the Ukrainian people and again this is after you know the only reason that Ukraine is in this predicament to begin with is because because of the nuclear disarmament and like you know Russia's Russia and America both like agreed to protect them and defend them

James: gave up their nukes. Yeah. And they give up their nukes at our, at our, at our pressure. We pressured them to do it too. We. Yep.

James: Yep. yep and The whole bullshit about oh, well they were gonna join a defensive treaty That would threaten us because then if we invaded them then we would be going to war with everybody else That's his bullshit line, you know, but it had nothing to do with that Anyway, it just had to do with the fact that their puppet their puppet was gone, you know They didn't ask to join NATO.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That was the other thing is I kept saying NATO bases were there.

James: They never they never asked to join NATO until after p Russia invaded They wouldn't be in the EU, they were pro -west.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: They wanted to be in the EU.

James: They may have talked about, hey, we'd like to we'd like to be in NATO one day, blah, blah, blah, but we wouldn't be closer to the west. They never applied to be in NATO until after Russia invaded. So the whole thing about them joining NATO is a reason why they invaded is all bullshit.

James: Anyway.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. I mean, but like they should, the reason they, they wanted to, they wanted to be in the European union is because it gives you, um, like, so like, this is the thing that like Americans don't, don't, i don't have to deal with.

James: And they have a right to, anybody? Yes. Financial stability, a little bit.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But like, if you're from a good country, every other country wants you to come. It's easy to travel there. It's easy to move there because they want you to come and bring your, your money, which is more valuable and spend it there.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But if you're from a country that's not like in favor, it's much harder for you to travel. It's much more difficult for you to get a visa, to be able to go there, be able to do education there, to feel to live there. But the beauty of the European union is that if you're, if your country is a member of the European union, everyone there can freely travel and trade around all of those places.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So it's just like massive economic boom, education boom, like it's brings in like a whole bunch of

James: Yeah.

James: Yep.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: of change and freedoms and like capabilities for the people to live there. And that's why the revolution of dignity happened because like they basically had a series of elections were like, okay, yeah, yeah. They're running on this platform of like, yeah, we're going to join the European Union.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And then like, they got elected and they were like, ah, you know what, sorry, we're like, oh, it's going to be a few years. And then they were like, actually, we're not going to do it.

James: Because Russia was the real one that the player had pulled the strings.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And that's when the revolution started.

James: ah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, because Russia always just wanted to take the country back and erase its identity and just make them a part of Russia again. like They've never gotten over that.

James: And just for business in general, it's good if you're ah in Europe and you want to sell your goods to other places in Europe,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like

James: People don't know about that here. Most people in America don't. They have VAT taxes, Value Added Tax, VAT, right? If you're in the EU, your country is a member of an EU country, and you're selling your stuff from one business to another business. Say you're sending raw materials from New Ukraine, which they have a ton of, right? You're sending those raw materials to a processing company in Germany. You would not pay those value added taxes. It's like free trade between, you know what I mean?

James: it would be a huge boom for their economy. you know All the countries that left the Soviet Union, everybody went through a rocky period, but the ones who were more Western, Latvia, Lithuania, Sonia, you know ah the countries that were more Western based, they boomed.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mmhmm.

James: you know i mean Actually, everybody pretty much boomed, except for like the ones who really stayed tight tight with Russia. you know so I mean, Ukraine boomed, even though they went you know they weren't totally pro.

James: they They didn't go all West, but they kind of had that leaning. They were kind of in between, you know? But yeah, I mean, business of with Europe is big, you know?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: ah you Ukraine is like a stunningly like beautiful country.

James: Mm -hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like The number of number of places, like like the the villages and the nature is like stunning.

James: Mm -hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But also like the the cities and the architecture and the museums and like all of the like cultural and historical stuff, like the castles, like all that stuff is like super impressive.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: and like All of their all their major cities were like huge modern beautiful cities that like better than some American cities like in terms of how well they're managed how clean they are um and the facilities that they have like yeah

James: yeah Yeah Yeah, I mean there's I mean Yeah, it's just said I mean, I'm really hoping they don't roll over on them. I'm hoping It was so sad to you. My best case scenario is my best my best case The shittiest The best shittiest outcome is some version of them basically giving Russia what they've already had.

James: you know and and you know That's why I think it's most likely. The most likely scenario, I think, is is Russia takes everything they've grabbed already and hopefully we still give Ukraine aid and do the things we already agreed to, but I don't believe Trump's going to do that.

James: it would take rush a few years really to get back up to strength to try to do more stuff. And the best hope is that, and then it's more than four years away.

James: And then in four years we have an administration that would stand up for them. I just don't know if the Western countries would still have the stomach for it again or something to help them again. you know I don't know.

James: It's not a good situation.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Oh my God.

James: I mean, it sucks, man. It really sucks.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Sorry.

James: but

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I just started reading about this actually, because I was trying to find something to be like, okay, what's, what is the latest? Cause I hadn't read, but the very first thing in here in Ukraine, there's confusion and concern.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: A former senior Ukrainian official tilled ABCs news. They don't understand why Trump has given up two major negotiating points before talks have but begun.

James: hu Yep.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: No NATO membership and territory. No NATO membership is like the hugest thing, because without without NATO membership, there's nothing to stop Putin from just coming back later to finish him off.

James: Yeah. Then from going in again.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: He's just going to build strength, rebuild all the tanks that they that they lost, and then roll back in with a bunch more meat shields to throw at the at their bullets.

James: you

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And there's not going to be like a, well, I guess this doesn't take off like a peacekeeping zone, but

James: I mean, France and France and Britain both agreed to something like 50 ,000 troops apiece or 75 ,000 troops apiece, you know, but the border is so big, you can't that's not that's not nearly enough.

James: That's not nearly enough. You know, and even if they did, I mean, even if they, you know, it's just be like, hey, if you invade, you're attacking us.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I think the purpose of those troops, though, is that.

James: I mean, I know that it's true, but

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yes, yes.

James: but either way, it's just, yeah, either way, but also the here's the thing though.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah, Trump now appears to care more about relations with Russia than Ukraine. Russian officials are also signaling they will not stop fighting unless they get what they want. Talks can begin and fighting will continue.

James: Yeah. Yeah. And another thing though, I mean, NATO membership though. I mean, I mean, we can't they can't have a deal that says Ukraine can't be a part of NATO right because I mean the rules of NATO say that anybody can apply now what that really means is Trump is saying that he would he would veto it the United States would veto any NATO membership I guess and try and pressure other people I guess to veto it but NATO rules are NATO that's not the US to determine it NATO is not the one negotiating we're talking about it I mean

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But can the US veto it?

James: yeah Every single, and that's how NATO works. Every country in the Alliance has to agree. That's how Sweden and when Sweden and Norway were in there. That's why, i like, you know, Orban was holding it up for a long time.

James: Orban and and Erdogan and Turkey, because, and they were holding it up, holding up.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Ah.

James: And then we finally agreed to give Erdogan some more weapons. And he's like, okay, all right, cool.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: A few billion dollars, I think.

James: You know, and then, and then Hungary, um they put a little bit more pressure on him basically saying hey you want to keep getting this stuff from EU funds they basically lorded over him the fact that they could cut off EU money to hungry to get Orban to drop his his objection to it so yeah I mean

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's OK. I remember there was something about five billion or 20 billion or something like that. That's the best thing I'm thinking of is the funding.

James: And my worst case scenario obviously is is more frightening because the worst case is he's going to sell out all the Ukrainians and he's going to sell them out to trump to Putin and he'll give classified information to the Russians like he did before.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, the worst case is that they

James: and you know the Oval Office last time around you know but he'll I think I'd be worse case scenario is he's going to actively help Russia because here they stop the war right they stop the war there's plenty of Ukrainian politicians I mean for Russia's pretty good at assassinating people right it's kind of harder when you're in an act of conflict and the Ukrainian intelligence been great about stopping these assassination attempts and stuff you know but I mean

James: Russia, Russia, wait, they played the long game when it comes to assassinating people, you know, and they do, they, they assassinate former KGB people who turn, they, they assassinated 20 years, 30 years later, they kill their families. I mean, you know, Russia stops the war. They go through and start killing politicians and buying up politicians and killing people and doing things like that and try to get people to be under their thumb and try to turn it into ah another, you know, puppet regime again, you know.

James: Well, I heard a cat. yes Yeah, but I, I really, I've always thought Trump was going to sell out Ukraine.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: I thought that's the first thing I thought about on the election day. I was like, the first thing I did when I was like all upset, I was like, Oh my God, Ukraine is so fucked. That's the first thing I thought about the election. I mean, yes, America was fucked, but the like right at the same time, I was like, Oh my God.

James: Oh my God. I cannot believe this is happening. Ukraine's going to be fucked. This is going to be fucked. This is going to happen. Oh my God. You know?

James: And I was cautiously optimistic after a couple of weeks. I was like, wow, Keith Kellogg and okay, these guys, maybe, maybe things are okay. Maybe some other people, cause he doesn't really give a shit about Ukraine.

James: He just, you know, whatever, but no, it seems, I think, I think he's gonna, I think he's going to roll over on them pretty hard.

James: That's my gut thing, so gut feeling. Hope I'm wrong.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But you say, so you think there's going to be some sort of compromises like no NATO. You, Russia gets a bunch of territory, but there will still be a Ukraine.

James: I think i think it's i think for a while i think for a while there will be ah think for a while there will be Ukraine.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Or do you think they're gonna, they're going to just get everything.

James: I think it will be i think it'll be some I think it'll be akin to post -World War I Germany. I think it'll be something absolutely horrible. I think it'll be something like, okay, Ukraine, you have to give up all these territories and you have to agree that that is all Russian land. Maps are redrawn. You have no claim over all of those territories. Crimea and Zephrydia and blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? Donetsk and Luhansk. You have to give it up and you can't go into NATO and you can't be in the EU. You have to have neutrality. You have to do this. and but but

James: You know, and then there'll be some sort of lip service paid about security that, you know, whatever, if somebody violates it or whatever. But I, I don't see the Trump administration doing shit for Ukraine when they want to cut off all USAID, you know, AID, you know what I mean? Which does small potatoes stuff that is hugely important for our security and our relationships around the world. If they want to cut that off, right?

James: to have goodwill around the world. That's small potatoes money.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: It's it's not even goodwill.

James: Why do we think the Trump administration?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like it's not even goodwill. Like the reason that we have.

James: Well, the USAID was started to stop communism spread, right? And make friends with places that like Russia wanted to make inroads with these people. Hey, you'd be better off being a friend of America. And they say, here, we're going to help you do this.

James: And it's like a, yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: um um i'm not I'm saying it's like it's not even it's not just goodwill. Like the reason that they have Ebola outbreaks in other countries isn't because like

James: No.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You know, Ebola isn't dangerous. It's because we are in those places taking care of it there to prevent it from coming here.

James: Mm -hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like, you know, if you take care of AIDS in the other country, then fewer of those people travel here and spread AIDS here. And that's true of a whole bunch of different diseases.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's another piece of the mission.

James: Yeah, I mean, yeah. I, uh...

James: Yeah, I don't know, but I don't, I just i don't see.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So I think worst case scenario, worst case scenario is there's no more Ukraine, Russia, Russia takes the whole thing and then, and then they go to war with Poland in a few years.

James: You saw, like you saw Russia's plan. You saw, you saw Russia's plan.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's the worst case.

James: You saw Putin's plan like a month or two, a couple of months ago, right? Where the U S would be given, uh, the Western, Western Ukraine, where Lviv is.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: No.

James: Right. And Russia basically takes everything else. that was ah That was an idea floated by Putin a while back. Splitting it up into three regions, three regions of Ukraine.

James: That's what they were floating a couple months ago.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Why would America have any territory?

James: It was ridiculous.

James: Well, maybe because Donald Trump, maybe they know something about Donald Trump. This was before he started announcing we were gonna take over Greenland and and Panama and all these other places. Maybe they knew something about Trump's desires to have a big empire again or something, you know, or whatever you wanna call it.

James: they oh god where was it at man the plan u we go russian plants he's used crane threatened to three parts here we go this is from ah all this from there's an erica from the key of independent

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: maybe that's the Maybe that's the deal. It's like, ah, we'll get an empire, but you will also get an empire. Let's all have empires.

James: um The document put forward four different scenarios of global world order development, two seen as favorable to Moscow and two disadvantages. disadvantageous and to Where was it at though? There was one where they're talking about breaking it up. oh went The country divided into thirds. It said the country's eastern regions, particularly partially and fully Russian -occupied territories, would be annexed by Russia. But western lands would be disputed territories that could be claimed by neighboring countries, including Hungary and Poland and Romania. The remaining territory, including Kiev, would be a Russian -controlled puppet state. So the document envised and visited the effective dissolution of the independent Ukrainian state. Yeah, there's here's where this document they got. Ukrainian intelligence got it.

James: i can't read this i'm gonna send this to you and let you can let katya read it the document here is all in i don't know if it's russian or ukrainian maybe but that that always works so well so i'm just going to send this to you and you can let katya look at it there you go it anyway um maybe we talk about that next week yeah so

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Okay.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Can Google translate it though? That's okay. Sure. Uh, yeah, that sounds pretty, that sounds pretty worst case scenario -ish.

James: I'm not i'm not not too optimistic. you know But, however, Ukraine, oh my god, since we're talking about Ukraine now, there is reasons to believe that Ukraine, even if Donald Trump does what I think he'll do, which is just fucking turn over and say F you and give the middle finger to Zelensky in Ukraine, right?

James: is reason to believe that Ukraine might be able to still hold on and outlast Russia and outlast you know this. And one of the big things is their drone assault for the first time.

James: This is actual military history, right? um Their drone army like actually took positions from the Russians.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mhm.

James: they use combined armed combined drone arms warfare air drones land -based drones right they have these old robotic drones I mean they're basically go -karts with fucking big -ass machine guns on top of it right with belts that feed it through in the bottom through the inside of it and literally there's like little teams there's they had a hundred and thirty I believe there's 130 or 150 people right in little buildings inside underground whatever you know with a bunch of screens up and they were

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mhm.

James: they were conducting aerial drones for surveillance, kamikaze drones, right? And the ground -based robot drones that roll in, and they were doing the whole damn thing, man. They were using drone jammers on there, jamming them up, flying over kamikaze drones, using little drones like little like RC cars, riding in there with these things, and they cleared out Russian trenches, and they actually pushed back the Russians without ah without losing a single person, because there was no people.

James: and they drove them back with their drone stuff. First time in military history in the world, that happened.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Wow.

James: you know we ah whole the It was troops on a battlefield against fully you know robotic ah robotic you know people there and advancing and taking positions.

James: And then the Ukrainians came up behind all the drones and just secured the areas after it was cleared out. And yeah, I think that was near Prokosk. Let me see, where was it at?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's awesome.

James: Yeah, it was pretty cool. And their drone stuff has been just going nuts. I mean, Jesus Christ.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You know, like America's not the only one, like America is like, obviously we have a huge military or we can throw our weight around with whatever, but like the, the most threatened by Putin's push for expansionism, like more empire is the European countries, like the countries that are are in NATO, you know, because it is their personal security.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like they're the next one over to get invaded, like your Germany, your France, your, you know, you're the rest of these other countries in NATO that are close, your Poland.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Uh, for example, um, and just because like Donald Trump makes some deal with Putin, like that might mean like American support goes away, but all those other countries have their own interest and their own desire to stop it.

James: Oh. Let's see, by the way.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Like, you know, they were giving them jets, like just, uh, I saw a story about jets recently. I don't remember when exactly, but you know, those other countries could still step up in a way, even if America doesn't.

James: yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So there's still like a lot of room, you know, just cause America throws them under the bus doesn't mean that it's over.

James: but

James: there was no fold yeah exactly and like it's an article well the whole rest of europe is yeah but the whole rest of europe is god not looking so hot themselves too but here i sent you the link on your discord by the way and i was wrong it wasn't it was in lipsy

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. Cause they've got the whole rest of Europe. That's got a vested interest in an independent Ukraine because it's a buffer.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Uh -huh.

James: right it was a and yeah there's a whole big article I think you and Katya should read it it's freaking awesome yeah because the whole thing was expected to fail anyway they were really doing it as a test it was a test run to see how they could do it they never expected it to win right they were doing a test all drones you know um yeah it was well

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: There's one thing Russia's good at, it's losing bodies.

James: yeah exactly but it's a really good article talk about the whole thing about the the advancements higher how the mission went down everything else so was less than a hundred soldiers that's like hundred fifty it was less than soldiers than 100 soldiers uh that's including the pilots legit you know people do the logistics planners support staff all of them and uh yeah it's half a dozen kamikaze and machine gun mounted drones you know um fpv drones um one fpv drone had the mounted assault rifle on the fpv drone the copter drones the big copter drones went in there dropping you know artillery shells um flying i mean

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: why

James: it's impressive and you have pictures videos everything out here and it's really and so it's really really cool uh

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Okay, I'll include the link to that, yeah. maybe we Maybe this one will be the one about the drone army instead of the one where we wing it.

James: it doesn't leave it the one we wing it it's fine this is true um yeah and zalinski was offering up the minerals i mean zalinski's doing the damn thing though they're mad i mean honestly i

James: I feel so much for that guy, man, because, dude, he was put in the most impossible... I mean, people can like him or not like him. People in Ukraine can like him or not like him. Like his politics or not like him.

James: He wasn't popular before the war, you know? I don't think he would have gotten reelected had Russia stupid too, man. They probably could have gotten another puppet in there because he wasn't doing too hot in the polls, you know? But, dude, the most impossible situation going to war with Russia, you know what I mean?

James: And very resilient.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, so there's, there are thoughts about, about that also.

James: I mean, God. Sorry.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So like it wasn't supposed, this is, I dunno, this is like a conspiracy theory that I've heard bits and pieces of from, from people.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But the idea is that, you know, maybe Zelensky knew that the invasion was coming because there were some decisions such as um they knew that that Russia, you know, like so in 2022, OK, Russia had been moving troops over in an aggressive way.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: They had been kind of signaling like its this aggression was coming.

James: Well, yeah, we told them.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But also they had there had been a simmering conflict for a decade from so firm of the time that they took Crimea and and ah parts of Donetsk.

James: Yeah. They saw.

James: Yeah. Well.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: so, or I'm sorry, the Donbass.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So ah they had mined the area from Crimea into the rest of Ukraine. It was like it was super covered in mines.

James: Hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And Zelensky decided to unmine it, even knowing that there were all those that conflict, they they took up all the mines and demined it. Like, that was one of those decisions that like, looked really questionable after the invasion happened. And then the the invasion happened, they came in and they took so much territory so fast. I think that like this this theory is that like the expectation was that Zelensky was in on it, and he was going to say, like okay, yeah, Russia, you can have the country, like ah you took over, and then just let it go back let it let it be captured in exchange for there being you know a different puppet government

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: in Ukraine. I think that was what was going to happen. And then they knew that. And the only reason that they switched off of that is because the people came out like normal citizens, not even just the military, but normal citizens came out and started like throwing Molotov cocktails and shooting them with AKs and just like, like taking over these, this Russian military forces that like weren't expecting any resistance. And the people started taking over and they're like, they, he realized that like,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: there was no way to be like, oh, we'll just give it over. We'll just give it away without without a fight when so many people were already fighting and having successes. And so that changed the game plan.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And so like like like the the plan wasn't to have a war.

James: i'm really i've been

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: The plan was just to roll in and take it and have it be like a, you know, like like it was like a range like that is a is the conspiracy theory.

James: I really I really want to hear about that because I really want to read up on that because I haven't found anything about the demining on there. I did read about, you know, some of the generals, you know, who were supposed to be, you know, like in charge of the defense in the south, and how they found out that several of those were on the payroll of the Russians. You know what I mean? And there was things like that. I want to I really want to see any real story about the demining and see why it was if it I mean, because I

James: I need to see some sort of real article talking about when it was de -mined, why it was de -mined, who did it, what was the reasoning for it.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: here's so Here's the first thing I found. I don't know how great this is, but

James: And not just somebody saying like, oh, they rolled in. they There was no minds, they just rolled in. That doesn't tell you that it wants to be decided to.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So look at the ah look at the link that I just put in the notion.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I'm going to read some stuff from this. I'm just going to read from the top. I'm not super familiar with this article, so we'll see how it goes.

James: national

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mines on border with Crimea checked nine days before invasions. Records still available. There's a 21st September, 2023. Military personnel of the armed forces have kept a long ah log of landmine inspections on the Crimean Isthmus

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Excuse me. And the last inspections took place on 15 February 2022, nine days before the full -scale Russian invasion began.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Details. UP contacted military personnel who assured them no one had removed the mines laid in 2014 to 2015 from the bridges on the Isthmus's. And if this had been done, then records of such actions would definitely remain in military reports and orders. The mines themselves were recorded on the official forms of units serving on the administrative border with occupied Crimea. All devices and power networks were checked twice a month Every first and third week of the month, bomb disposal experts would go to the Curzon front, and every second and fourth week to the Melatopol front. The Haight 108th support regiment kept a separate logbook for checking the condition of mine barriers. It did not just record the dates of inspections. People who carried out these inspections with their names and signatures there. If they saw any malfunctions, they also had to record it in the logbook.

James: so it doesn't sound like he ordered any mines to be removed it sounds like people were signing off that they were all there and working and they're all checking on him and signing off on him sounds me like it yeah it sounds like that's probably why they prosecuted some of the people they were in charge of the defense in the south who said they were conspiring with Russia, probably because they were.

James: I don't think that was a, you know, Zelensky had them secretly go in there and remove all the mines nine days before the invasion when up until then, they had been getting all the intelligence and you've been trying to keep panic down and you know, hey, we're gonna do this, we're gonna negotiate and it's, you know, I mean, I don't, conspiracy theory doesn't hold up.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, OK, so if you if you get down to the bottom, if you get into the bottom, it says background, Major General Andrei Sokolov, who at the beginning of the invasion was deputy commander of operational command Pivdin South, was in charge of pivoting and grouping of troops, said that the bridges to Kamiya and Chonhar had been mined since 2014.

James: I don't think it holds up. yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Excuse me. I think I'm going to sneeze. Not yet. Excuse me. Thank you. There we go. I'll cut that out. Had been mined since 2014, but they had not been blown up at the beginning of Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: A soldier who served in the border with Crimea on 24th, February 22, also told how he tried to blow up the bridges on Chantar. So this is where this, this conspiracy theory comes in.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So like there were bridges that would have prevented them from being able to get in and they were allegedly mined, but they were not exploded.

James: Mm -hmm Yeah And that that was why they went after the general right wasn't one of the general maybe Colonel something like that there was a couple people who were in charge of the defense on there who didn't blow the bridges and didn't let that and They got prosecuted.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Why?

James: I believe for working with the Russians Who was it? Who was it? I mean, God, this is not something to do live while we're recording. But we can look this up later. Because I remember there was a lot of talk about that. I just had never heard until you mentioned about, oh, why did you de -mine it? I never heard about that. anyway.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Huh.

James: What's that?

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I'm going to read an article. So it links to an article about a guy who who was the soldier who tried to blow it up. And he's like, it was really chaotic in the command room. There were these instructions and these envelopes that had, and they were opened if necessary, and those envelopes, there were instructions for connecting explosive devices.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: We made the connections, and I was left to detonate it. There was no longer any communications. The radio stations didn't work. The commander was engaged in staffing, running around the positions to place everyone.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mines are already exploding. It was very loud. You couldn't shout loud enough to be heard. Therefore, I essentially acted myself and personally made the decision to blow it up. I tried to detonate it, but the explosion didn't happen. I tried to reconnect and check the wires. Maybe some mistake had happened or something was connected incorrectly, reconnected and try again. I did it three times. There was no explosion. I'm not an explosives expert, but there are two options here. Either a sabotage group was landed or the detonation wires were damaged by mortar fire.

James: Yeah. Yeah.

James: yeah so

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Okay, yeah, I'll have to look have to get some more some more sourcing on the on the rest of these

James: yeah Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think Zelensky ordered them to allow them to come in there. I mean, you know, that seems a little far fetched to me. Yeah.

James: But anyway, but there were plenty of other people who have even agreed, admitted to it and everything else. People charted with treason, and people at the beginning at the outset of the war it war, people during the war. We all know that there's still people, Russian intelligence and spies feeding information to the Russians during their war. There's some reasons, like like the Highmars, you know, the first few Highmars got blown up, you know, a couple months ago, you a few months ago.

James: and it was obvious that the intelligence was passed to them, you know what I mean? With how they found them so quickly and they wouldn't have just had these drones where they were. And, you know what I mean? There's a few things. There's like a train, there's like a train place where they just very briefly, they were stopping in weird places and they knew the train would be at a certain place. You know what I mean? It's not like, there's been times where stuff has been beginning, you know,

James: uh leaked and you know some to the russians i don't i don't believe for a second that zilinski did some sort of move where he just like let something let them walk in just for a political benefit i don't believe that for a second so well there was some there was some things like that i mean there were um

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Do you think it was, do you think if it was like not Dylanski, do you think it was somebody else in a position of authority?

James: There's been a reason why they've been doing some trees and charges against some people in Ukraine, some military people and everything else. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. you know and theyve I mean, it's happened.

James: so

James: Anyway, that's about that.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So I was going to say this a while ago, ah but you you went to the drone war, which was kind of some good news.

James: Yeah, cool.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: But I was like, do you want to switch to a small piece of of good news?

James: yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: um So there was a New York doctor who was um prescribing and sending mifepristone or mifepristone

James: Yes.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: through the mail to Louisiana.

James: Oh yeah, it's all that.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: um And Louisiana wanted to have her extradited to Louisiana so they could charge her using, you know, Louisiana law um for helping people to have abortions.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Because I always feel like I'm saying it wrong. Mepristone. Mepristone?

James: Mr. Preston, Mr. Preston

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Mepristone, okay.

James: for

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Miffy -Pressdown is, I guess, used for a bunch of things, but like one of the things is like the main things is that it's used for medication abortions. Um, but yeah, so in the first ruling in this case, challenging the shield laws intended to protect doctors in states that support abortion rights, who send abortion pills to states with bans, the judge finds the New York doctor in order to stop sending abortion pills to Texas, but she won't be extradited.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So not not a not extradited ah to Gilead yet for now.

James: Small wins.

James: Hmm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: This is what passes for good news.

James: Yeah.

James: Not yet.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So um let see let's do a little, let's check in with Trump golf track. 24 days in office, five days spent golfing.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's 20 .83 % of the time of the days that he is spent golfing. Um, price of eggs as of January 31st, 752, uh, as of February 12th, $7 .55 price of gasoline, December 30th, $3 .01 as of February 10th,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: $3 .13. So gas is up.

James: oh wait only in America, by the way.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Eggs are up.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Huh.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, it's cause we have the, we have the bird flu and all the birds are dying.

James: and So it's only in the United States and nowhere else.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I don't think that it's nowhere else. I just think that like it's, it's ah impacting our birds here.

James: It's also because, is in a way though, Americans have themselves to blame.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: because of the horrible conditions that we do for our factory farms.

James: Not only that, yes, that is half of it. And the other half of it is the way they want to, I mean, personally, I'll admit it, I'm a fan of it, even though I know it's not good for you, right? The washing of the eggs before they get to the grocery shelves. When they do those washing, they weaken out all the little membranes on there. That's that's why the eggs go bad so quick, and that's why,

James: you know, people get sick from them in Salmonella and everything. Why do you have to have them refrigerated? If you ever go around the world, why are these eggs not refrigerated? And how are they people not getting sick?

James: It's because they have to be refrigerated because we wash the eggs so much we strip out the membranes and make them susceptible to all the problems.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: No, but like the problem with the problems of the birds are getting sick and then dying.

James: That's true too.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And so like, are there other, they're recognizing that they're sick and they're killing them all.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And so even in some places where they say that like the birds are free range, the birds have like, you know, 12 by 15 inches per bird averaged out over the this whole massive indoor facility.

James: They're killing them all.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So like they really don't have any space. They're standing on top of each other. They're pooping on top of each other. they're spreading disease. So like if one bird gets sick, they all get sick. And because it happens all the time, they pump them full of antibiotics and because they pumped them full of antibiotics, the diseases become like mutated, become more and more antibiotic resistance.

James: Yeah.

James: yeah

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And like part of the problem with antibiotics for like general health and people is that, uh, people use antibiotics and so it causes the, the, they become less effective because the, the diseases, the bacteria mutates and becomes more resistant as people are using it, but it's much worse in how much it's used in, in animals because they're so much more medicated. They're just pumping them full of this stuff all the time because they put them in this, these squalorous, like horrible disease ridden conditions where they're all getting sick. So they, so in just in order to not die of infection, they all have to be pumped up on, uh, on antibiotics their entire life. So like, if you're eating the meat, you're eating this like antibiotic ridden meat. And then at the same time you're,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: causing the viruses to mutate. And what's happened here is that like finally a version of bird flu has become so violent that like the antibiotics can't stop it. And if one bird gets it in a flock, they spread it by contact.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like They breathe on each other, or they touch each other, or they touch their poop. And then they get it, and then they're sick. And like that's how it spreads to cows.

James: man

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: like They'll shit on the ground, or they'll shit on the cows. you know Because it's any bird. It's not just chickens. It's any bird. So like normal birds that fly around will get sick, and they'll be flying around. spreading it through their feces, through their feathers, through whatever.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: And so other animals are getting it too. So like, there's a whole rash of like cats and dogs are getting sick from just like eating chicken meat because when they prepare chicken meat for animals, it's not to the same rigorous standard as when they prepare it for humans.

James: Yep.

James: Yep.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So yeah.

James: anyway but yeah right next north of us though Canada 275 for a dozen eggs in Canada their farms are smaller and more geographically spread out and they reduce the risks of the you know widespread issues like bird flu and yeah 275 in US s money in Canadian dollars it's like three dollars and some change 377 something like that you know 393 whatever just 275 in US dollars for a dozen eggs so

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Man,

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: the other thing I wanted to mention on the Trump golf track, um, is he recently went to the super bowl and he was actually the first president to ever go to the super bowl.

James: Oh, it costs so much money. Didn't save the whole thing, obviously, which, you know, yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah. But like that is the thing is that it costs like $20 million dollars of taxpayer money to like have him go to the super bowl, which is like offensive.

James: Yep. Uh -huh. Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: So, yeah, as we are as we are kicking the crutches out from Tiny Tim, we are also sending the president to the Super Bowl.

James: yeah Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: That's us. That's America.

James: Waste, fraud and abuse. Waste.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: You know, I don't I'm sure there's no way we could get it, but like if we could, I would want the theme song for this podcast to be This is America.

James: I prefer No Effects's We Called It America.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I think that would be.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: I don't know that one.

James: It's a great song.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Maybe I would.

James: You should read the lyrics and listen to the song. It's a great, you know.

James: Yeah, it's a great song.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Well, maybe we should send some emails and see if somebody wants to let us use their music.

James: yeah i don't think uh i don't think that mike from no effects would sue he doesn't sue all the people who do stuff on youtube and put his stuff up there so in fact lots of empty comments on it and gives thumbs up to it and stuff and talk about it exactly i'll give you all the profits we had

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: i mean

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: the There is nothing for them to, like, we don't have any profits for them to take, so I mean... It's gonna have it all, Fat Mike. From all 20 of our viewers.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: ah Okay. Closing thoughts, positivity, recommendations, predictions, and anything. What do you got?

James: Let's see, positive thoughts, hopeful thoughts. All right. Positive prediction. There will be, there will be another, there will be another Luigi Mangione. Hopefully, or maybe.

James: okay Or, um you know, maybe he'll just have a heart attack.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: He is he is old and unhealthy Maybe Vance doesn't need to be the heir apparent to inherit the throne My positivity is ah People are fighting back

James: yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah, so I don't got anything yet right now. Hopefully the courts keep stopping him.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Employees are there was this big thing on reddit about uh, one of the employees who was like Yeah, knowing trump was coming in project 2025 and everything like I was like just looking for the door I was like ready to find any way out to get out of here But then they sent this fork in the road email And now I am like the only thing that I want to do like the thing that I most want to do Is to stay here and get in their way because fuck them like that's the attitude of the federal employees, and we need more of that. And there's still there are still people out there taking the fight to them. And to our point about about Democrats you know going on tour and getting out into the streets, they're not at that level. But they are like they are going out and protesting. They are going to the buildings and you know demanding stuff and causing trouble and having press conferences. So they're they're stirring.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: you know they're not ah I wouldn't call them mobilized, but there's there are signs of life. And finally, spring is coming.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Soon, soonish. It will soon be be more warm and less less frigid. So we got that to look forward to.

James: One day, like a miracle, it'll just go away when the weather gets warm.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: We got 21, 22 months until in midterms.

James: but but Oh, yeah.

James: Yeah.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: Yeah.

James: All right, we really do have to wrap this up. um So ah yeah, let's hope, let's hope we still have free and fair elections by then.

GABRIEL ZIEGLER: All right, stay woke.

James: ah

James: they won