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BONUS: The Struggle for Dancer's Rights at Dallas Black Dance Theatre
142 Plays3 months ago
On this episode, I am joined by Antuan Byers, the Dancers Vice President of the American Guild of Musical Artists and Nile Ruff, a dancer with Dallas Black Dance Theatre to discuss recent events at DBDT that have rocked the dance world.
Antuan and Nile give us an inside look into the events leading up to the sudden firing of an entire company of dancers. We discuss the impact this has had not just on the dancers directly affected, but on the dance community as a whole. This moment in history is one that every dancer should be watching - tune in to gain a deeper understanding of the power of unionization and what can happen when we work together for the greater good.
Key Moments:
- Overview of AGMA and how they support dancers [2:19]
- The events that led the dancers of DBDT to unionize with AGMA [3:40]
- How DBDT leadership began to retaliate against the dancers [5:47]
- AGMA has issued a Do Not Work Order for DBDT - what does this mean and has it happened before? [10:52]
- The power of the support the dancers have received from Dallas and the dance community [13:51]
- The impact this moment in history will have on the future of quality standards of work for dancers in the US [15:43]
- What needs to change at DBDT for the dancers to feel safe and comfortable in the work environment [19:51]
- How you can support the dancers of Dallas Black Dance Theatre [31:08]
Support the Dancers of Dallas Black Dance Theatre:
GOFUNDME: gofundme.com/f/help-dbdt-dancers-overcome-job-loss
SEND A LETTER TO DBDT LEADERSHIP: https://actionnetwork.org/letters/081fd9efe5c5c55e7e6c61867bdd9fee02fbe939
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/dancersofdbdt
Links and Resources:
1-1 Career Mentoring: book your complimentary career call
Let’s connect!
My WEBSITE: thebrainyballerina.com
INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/thebrainyballerina
Questions/comments? Email me at [email protected]
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Transcript
AGMA's Role in the Arts Community
00:00:01
Speaker
When we say AGMA, I think sometimes we talk about it like a third party, but we are AGMA.
00:00:06
Speaker
Right? I'm Agma as a member, as a leader, Nyla's Agma as a leader in this moment. We are Agma and we build that power that Nyla is experiencing. Those letters that Dallas Black has been receiving, those donations, I mean, we have a membership of over 7,000 members across the country. And that's Agma. That's the power and that's the community. And the world is showing up for these dancers and the way that they know the dancers would show up for them. And that's what unionizing and collective action is all about.
Introducing Caitlin's Podcast
00:00:35
Speaker
I'm Caitlin, a former professional ballerina turned dance educator and career mentor. And this is the Brainy Ballerina podcast. I am here for the aspiring professional ballerina who wants to learn what it really takes to build a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. I'm peeling back the curtain of the professional dance world with open and honest conversations about the realities of becoming a professional dancer. Come along to gain the knowledge and inspiration you need
00:01:03
Speaker
to succeed in a dance career on your terms.
Discussion with Antoine Byers and Niall Ruff
00:01:10
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Brainy Valerina podcast. I'm your host, Caitlin Sloan, and I am joined today by Antoine Byers and Niall Ruff. Antoine is the dancer's vice president of the American Guild of Musical Artists, and Niall is a dancer with Dallas Black Dance Theater. I invited them on today to discuss recent events at Dallas Black Dance Theater that have rocked the dance world.
00:01:30
Speaker
To give a little background, Dallas Black Dance Theater is the oldest continuously operating professional dance company in Dallas. On August 9th, the leadership of Dallas Black Dance Theater terminated the contracts of all nine of its dancers just a few weeks before their season was set to begin.
Unionization Efforts at Dallas Black Dance Theater
00:01:46
Speaker
The news of the dancers came shortly after the company posted an audition notice on social media seeking new company members.
00:01:53
Speaker
The management states that the dancers were let go over a social media video that displayed quotes on professional context that negatively impacted their image. However, all of this has come about after the dancers of DVDT took steps to unionize with AGMA in May 2024. So with that little bit of background, let's get into talking about this. Antoine, I would love to hear from you first and just give us a little bit of background about AGMA and what you do and what your role is there.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yes, thank you, Caitlin. And thank you so much for having us here today. We really appreciate the opportunity to continue to get the word out about the dancers and the story and the tragedy that's happening in Dallas. But yes, AGMA stands for the American Guild of Musical Artists. And if you haven't heard of the union, you've definitely heard of some of the companies that we represent. But we're a labor union that represents singers, dancers, staging staff, faculty now, which is really exciting, staff and instructors in opera, choir performance and concert dancing.
AGMA's Advocacy for Fair Work Conditions
00:02:52
Speaker
So we negotiate and enforce over 70 different collective bargaining agreements throughout the country, and our job is to ensure safe and fair working conditions, as well as enhance the quality of life for our members. So we play a crucial role in advocating for the arts and the interests of our members, promoting professional standards and supporting the growth and sustainability of the performing arts community.
00:03:14
Speaker
Amazing. And then Niall, can you tell us about your role of Dallas Black? How long have you been dancing there? And what is your background? Yes, I joined Dallas Black last year in 2023. So I just finished my first season. Before Dallas Black, I danced with Dance Eye 12, Spectrum Dance Theater, plus Donald Byrd, Dayton Contemporary Dance Company, Deep Rooted Dance Theater, and Attack Theater, all different places in the United States.
00:03:38
Speaker
Okay, so let's go back to the beginning of this process. At what point did the dancers decide to join AGMA? What was the catalyst for starting that process?
Dancers' Pursuit of Unionization with AGMA
00:03:47
Speaker
Yeah, we've been having discussions about it. I want to say since December 2023, just because we noticed that we were in the studio by ourselves a lot making decisions that we thought
00:03:59
Speaker
needed to come from our management. We wanted more say in our daily affairs when we had breaks throughout rehearsal time, also days off after performances, we weren't getting responses from management like we had hoped. So we all are aware of what's going on out in other parts of the dance community and
00:04:18
Speaker
how many people are starting to organize and unionize. So we were like, we could do that. That would be very helpful. So then officially we voted to unionize in May, but discussions started before then.
00:04:30
Speaker
So there wasn't like one big thing that happened. It was just a bunch of smaller things adding up to you feeling like we need some more standardized procedures. Yes. And just more support and more protection. I was only at Dallas WAC for a year, but other people who voted to unionize had been there for six years or 10 years or 14 years. Um, so they had a lot more experience recognizing that we needed a union in place.
00:04:56
Speaker
And I'll just share, I grew up at Dallas Black actually as a fun fact. I grew up in the academy. I trained there. So like Niall said, you know, I can say as an observer or as a witness, the things that were coming up for these dancers may be in December or before that are things that we've been hearing about from current and former company members for years and years and years.
00:05:17
Speaker
Okay, what was the end goal? What were you hoping to accomplish with this process? Yeah, so we were hoping to create an AGMA contract with us, with AGMA, with the DBT management.
00:05:28
Speaker
that would be a win-win for the dancers and the management and just start a trajectory of like a collaboration, a humanistic, respectful collaboration between dancers and management with AGMA as an oversight and really just like recognizing our voices, helping us bring our voices to the table when we do discuss what management.
Leadership's Response to Unionization Efforts
00:05:48
Speaker
And it seems like very quickly after beginning this process, leadership started to retaliate. Can you talk about what happens? Yes. I would say what first happened is they started to break us up and send us different emails saying they wanted to talk to certain people. But we, having spoken to Agma a lot, we knew we had to stick together.
00:06:08
Speaker
We responded saying, no, we have to all be together. So they had a meeting with us maybe twice and both of those meetings they wanted us all to be broken up. And then from there, I think the biggest thing was they cut our contracts. We have a summer contract in addition to.
00:06:26
Speaker
a season contract, they cut our contracts by a few weeks. And they told us we had 24 hours to sign the contract. So that contract being cut takes away so much of our income for this summer. And we already have a summer layoff. So that was the first thing. And then the second thing was people who had decided to leave the company weren't allowed to, weren't permitted, weren't invited to attend our annual fundraiser that's at the end of the season. And previously,
00:06:50
Speaker
dancers who had left the company were able to attend. So that was another thing that they did right away. And is it also correct that they had said the dancers could not teach in the school anymore? Yeah. Yes. So that was the third thing. That's when it rips the showdown hat.
00:07:05
Speaker
dancers out from teaching the school. And I didn't know how much extra income many of the dancers were getting from teaching the school until I heard about them taking away that opportunity. Being a dancer in the organization and seeing how the students interact with my coworkers, the students love my fellow dancers and love their teachers. The teachers, they really run the program, helping the students become professional and get really great training. So it's pretty disappointing that DVDT
Impact on Dancers' Teaching Opportunities
00:07:34
Speaker
took that away from them.
00:07:35
Speaker
Just to give a little bit more context, for some of these dancers, this is several hundred dollars a month. So, you know, in Dallas, Texas, this is their rent. This is a lot of their utilities. And, you know, like I said, I grew up at the Dallas Black Dance Academy. All of my teachers were from the first company.
00:07:50
Speaker
These are world-class artists that we were getting to train with and have such close proximity with. So this is something that I think was a part of the history and the lineage and the culture of the company is getting to interact so closely with these company members. So this change was something that I think affects not only the dancers that we're advocating for in their salaries, but also generations of dancers to come coming out of the Adonis Black Dance Academy.
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. From both ends, from Agma and from the dancer's perspective, did you expect this to happen when you took steps to unionize or did you think it would be a little bit more streamlined, like you said, a collaborative approach? I had only been there for a year and knowing the energy of the executive director, I felt like there was going to be a little bit of a pushback. I didn't expect this much of a pushback and ultimately this firing. I didn't expect that just because looking around at other dance companies, that's not what's happened.
00:08:44
Speaker
And it just blows my mind that this happened. Yeah, I agree. I think that I've experienced a lot of pushback from several different companies. I mean, if you just follow Agma on Instagram, you'll see that we're constantly in these negotiations and different battles with several different companies. But I think that, you know, Alison Beck, who's our current interim executive director, has worked in the labor field for decades and decades. And she has said that she's never seen something so egregious as what we're experiencing with Alice Black right now.
00:09:14
Speaker
And why do you think that is? Why are they so worried about dancers joining the union? Because from my perspective as a dancer and as being a leader in the nonprofit fields, it's just good for everyone. It's just good business. So what are they so worried about? My thought is they don't want to lose control outside of this year and outside of bringing Agna in to work with us.
00:09:36
Speaker
There's been histories of this kind of egregious actions before with firing of dancers, using dancers in a way that's not very respectful or humane. So I think it would just completely take away their control to be able to act in that way. I don't know if they also have something to hide. I'm not sure, but it blows my mind also the fact that it's a Black organization, they're Black leaders, and we are Black people and Black dancers. So I'm surprised that people in the same community would treat each other this way.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yeah, I agree now. I think it's all about power. I think that this is a company and an organization that hasn't been challenged in this way before. And I think for many years has operated on their own, however they want to, without much oversight, without much engagement or input from the dancers. I mean, from what I hear whenever dancers do try to offer feedback or input.
00:10:24
Speaker
They're often met with disciplinary actions. You know, I think that this was something that was new for Dallas Black Dance Theater, and instead of leaning into it and coming to the table collaboratively, we were met with defensiveness, absolutely.
AGMA's Do Not Work Order
00:10:39
Speaker
Yeah. So, Agama has issued a Do Not Work order for Dallas Black Dance Theater. Can you explain what this means, and has this ever happened before?
00:10:46
Speaker
you know, this is not something we do every day. This is not a tool in our RCA that we, you know, deploy on a regular basis. I can't recall this ever happening during my time as a member. Many people, you know, within the board and my membership can't recall this happening. I don't think this is
00:11:03
Speaker
really happened before within AGMA. And, you know, what this do not work order means is that AGMA members, as well as members of the Associated Actors and Artists of America, which a lot of folks notice the four A's, that includes SAG Astra, Actors Equity, AGMA, which is the American Guild of Variety Artists, et cetera. All folks in the four A's are prohibited from performing any services for Dallas Black Dance Theater until this order is lifted. Violating this order
00:11:30
Speaker
may subject members to discipline, which can include fines or expulsion. So all of this includes auditioning for Dallas Black Dance Theater. And just to give a little bit more context, right, for the dancers that are listening, that means that any company in AGMA, like I said, we represent over 70 different companies. Obviously, all of those are not dance companies, but we also have dance and opera, as well as dance in several other spaces. That also includes any choreographers that we represent.
00:11:56
Speaker
that includes any stage managers or staging staff that Dallas Black Dance Theater might work with. That goes to Broadway shows that work under an equity contract. So that's any of these touring Broadway shows or shows that are actually on Broadway. Agba represents the Rockettes. So if anybody, you know, might be represented by that union or
00:12:14
Speaker
The Soleil is also represented by the American Guild of Variety artists in a lot of their shows. So many different companies and productions are a part of the 4A's. So this is actually, you know, a pretty big deal that we've implemented this do not work order, but this is all to really show. That was by dance theater that we mean business right now, and that the talent that you should be looking at is the talent that you've just rescinded those contracts from.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah. So the company held an audition this past Saturday. Do you have any information about the outcome? Were there dancers who attended? Did they offer contracts?
00:12:47
Speaker
So I think that things are still developing here, but we will say there were some dancers who did audition on site from what we heard. You know, again, growing up in the academy and now you've been to these auditions, Dallas Blount fills that room with folks auditioning for that job. It's a great dance job. It's a great company, legacy company, but I believe they had maybe 15 people on the inside auditioning.
00:13:09
Speaker
You know, so clearly this do not work order meant something to some folks. And I think a lot of people are also standing in solidarity with the dancers of Dallas Black Games Theater. Obviously 15 people weren't, but I'll say, you know, in my experience observing and witnessing auditions for Dallas Black, this was an ordinary audition for the company. They did hold an audition, but we were also outside with them at that audition with the beautiful rally that hopefully some of you have been able to witness online. Yeah. What was the energy like? It felt like there was a lot of support behind the dancers that day.
00:13:38
Speaker
There was so much support. I know a lot of the dancers, we were surprised. We didn't know what to expect, but Agma held it down. They touched down in Dallas on Wednesday and immediately started working in the community, getting connected with labor unions out here.
00:13:53
Speaker
and getting people on our side and we went to a roundtable discussion with some other labor unions in the city and we just told them our story and they got behind us 100% and we're at the rally we had over 100 people I think we had 200 people and we were just walking around Dallas Black with signs tanning and cheering
00:14:13
Speaker
And it ultimately led to us all dancing in the street and just expressing immense joy and really just calling for the dance energy, the dance gods to really come at our aid to shift this tragedy that's been going on.
Community Support and Rally
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll say too, again, being from Dallas, it was so beautiful because I knew so many of those different faces out there. The people that were out there were community members, patrons of Dallas Black Dance Theater, students of the Performing Arts School and the dance studios, politicians, local state. We received national support from some politicians as well. We had faith leaders out there. We had other union members like Niall said. So I think we did have a little over 200 people there.
00:14:57
Speaker
all their standing in support and many other people online who were both observing live, leaving comments, who supported the dancers on their GoFundMe. I mean, there's just been an immense outpour, overwhelming amount of support around the world for these dancers during this moment. You know, as someone who's been able to
00:15:14
Speaker
stand hand in hand with them and kind of observe all of this go down. We're witnessing history. We're witnessing probably one of the most heinous acts kind of in labor and arts at that intersection, but we're also witnessing what happens when the community comes together and stands up for what's right.
00:15:31
Speaker
That leaves my next question really well, because I'm curious, what kind of impact do you think this is going to have on the future quality of standards of work for dancers in the US? And what is going to be the broader outcome of this? Yeah. I mean, I hope that people are seeing what not to do when maybe your company comes to the table to try to organize.
00:15:50
Speaker
I mean the attention in the press that Dallas Black has received in the past few weeks you know as someone like I said who did grow up from that institution and who kind of used to wear that badge proudly on my resume and you know in my bio it is sad to kind of see such a terrible stain on this legacy of this company right now. We're seeing it I mean people are making public statements and stuff but
00:16:11
Speaker
Well, hopefully this is a great case study of what not to do when your dancers come to the table to organize with you. I mean, now we've received messages from dancers who feel empowered to finally tell their story about maybe some of the harm or the mistreatment that they've received in some of their dance companies and their experiences with their management.
00:16:30
Speaker
When we fight, we win. We know how this is going to end. It might take a little bit of time, but we're going to slowly see what happens in these situations when a company comes to the table defensively. So I think that Dallas Black is kind of standing their ground right now, but we're doing the same thing. And I hope that.
00:16:46
Speaker
People are able to see what happens when we come together. The true collective power, which is, that's what unionizing is about, is our collective power. What we can do together. We can do so much more together. We can do so much more in the streets than the folks are doing in their ivory towers, right? So I think that's hopefully what people are taking from this situation. And I think there's a lot of education that needed to happen, right? So thank you, Caitlin, for having us and like doing this, educating with us. So I think there's like a lot of education that's happening. People are now knowing what a union is like. For me,
00:17:16
Speaker
as a Black leader in the union. There's a lot of Black folks that are like, oh wow, like we can be union too. We can collectively organize. We can have a voice in our workplace. So I think that we're experiencing kind of a new era of this union boom that we've been experiencing over the past few years. I'm realizing how helpful it is to be a part of a union because they just have a broader reach. And if we had tried to do all of this by ourselves, we may not have gotten as far of a reach as we
00:17:44
Speaker
would have had. I'm learning the power of being a part of something bigger and how, you know, everyone's going through something similar and we're all here to band together and support each other. It's been wonderful to learn the power of community through this. And just to quickly build off of that now, like when we say AGMA, I think sometimes we talk about it like a third party, but we are AGMA.
00:18:05
Speaker
Right? I'm Agma, as a member, as a leader. Niall is Agma, as a leader in this moment. We are Agma and we build that power that Niall is experiencing. Those letters that Dallas Black has been receiving, those donations, I mean, we have a membership of over 7,000 members across the country. And that's Agma. That's the power and that's the community. And the world is showing up for these dancers and the way that they know the dancers would show up for them. And that's what unionizing and collective action is all about.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah. And I think there's so many dancers, like you said, who we can tell similar stories. We've experienced these things. And to see dancers doing the brave thing and really taking a stand is really empowering to all of us to, like you said, say, maybe I could do that. And oh, I've experienced that. And I didn't even question that that wasn't okay because it's just so normalized in the dance world. So to be like, oh, that shouldn't be happening. I could have better conditions is really helpful for everyone to see.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. And that's, I mean, that's an awakening that awakening that I've experienced when I had my first union job, Nile, you just hadn't, we said you had an awakening throughout this experience, you know, and that's not to say that, like, there aren't great things happening in non-union companies, but I think there is something about being able to have a voice in your workplace and in your working conditions.
00:19:23
Speaker
And, you know, we're union strong and we're feeling that kind of support on so many different levels. We watched the DNC last night and there were talks about that there.
Future Dialogue and Transformation
00:19:32
Speaker
Lots of energy around the labor movement. So I think we're kind of experiencing this nationally in this moment. Niall, I'm curious. Agamma has really spearheaded this letter writing campaign and the rally and everything. The message has been to re-engage the dancers. But from your perspective, how do you feel about going back into this environment if Dallas Black was to say,
00:19:52
Speaker
Okay. We're rehiring all the dancers. Would you feel safe? Would you feel comfortable? Hmm. We would have to have a sit down. We would have to have a conversation. And that's really what I want is for us to talk to each other. We've never had a dialogue. It's always been the leadership talking at us. One of the last meetings we have with leadership, they asked us if we had any questions and I asked a question and immediately my question was shut down.
00:20:16
Speaker
And so if we could go back, when we do go back and have conversations where each one of us is sharing and talking and getting to know each other, it was my first season. I don't recall any of the leadership knowing my name or calling me by name. So I don't really think they know a lot of us.
00:20:34
Speaker
Also, I just miss my studio. A lot of dance communities in Dallas have opened their studio space to us and it's been wonderful and I'm so thankful and I'm so grateful. It also has reminded me what I have had at Dallas Black. It's a big, beautiful studio space.
00:20:49
Speaker
multiple studios and we have our own dressing rooms. We are given ballet shoes. It's just like we have all these advantages there, advantages there and I miss them and I feel like I've worked hard for those things. So I want to go back to those things. But yeah, it would have to be a conversation between us and management and they have to make a deep human revolution. Like something has to change in their hearts for us to know that it's a safe space and it can be a safe space.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that transformation is the biggest part because I think now, you know, so many questions about do the dancers want to go back? Like what's next for the dancers? You know, these questions come up and they're valid questions. They make total sense. But I think what's important to realize is we're experiencing an extreme example right now. Right. And like I said earlier, this is a case study. But what we're seeing in Dallas Black is happening all around the nation and different dance companies. Right. Caitlin, you kind of alluded to it a little bit earlier. So many dancers are working in very similar environments.
00:21:46
Speaker
So I think part of the conversation is definitely about like, do these dancers want to return back to this environment? Also recognizing that escaping this environment is not escaping this harm that these dancers are experiencing. So I think the real question is like, how can we come to the table and make transformation in these workplaces that like Noah said earlier in the conversation, make the lives of the dancers better, but also the institutions? Yeah, I love that question. What would you say?
00:22:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think literally pulling out a seat and coming to the table and having a conversation and being open, releasing power, understanding how to work in a collaborative environment, similarly to how like many of our communities have worked historically in the past. I think that's my answer. Now, do you have a better answer maybe?
00:22:29
Speaker
What happened in, I think if something happened in South Africa when apartheid was cut down, a lot of people came to the table who were on the side of apartheid and they just expressed, they apologized for their actions and they were able to hear stories of people who were hurt by apartheid. I think if something like that, I think it needs to be the beginning. Like we need to all be together, the leadership.
00:22:54
Speaker
they gotta recognize they've harmed us and make amends for that. And then we also get to share.
00:22:59
Speaker
what kind of effect this has had on us, on our mental health, on our financial health. We were laid off for four weeks, which is normal. That's usually our summer contract. And then 10 days before we were supposed to go back, we're all in the city. You know, we get an email Friday night at 4.30 that we're getting laid off completely. And we expected 11 months of paychecks where all of our rents are pretty steep. And it sent me into a shock and an emotional shock and just fear.
00:23:28
Speaker
because I'm not from Dallas. I just moved here a year ago and my only resource was Dallas Black Dance. So now I'm like reaching out to people that I don't know just for help. My mental health has shaken up. I would love for them to know that and for them to just understand the human that they hurt and the human, their actions affected. And that's me. And then there's also nine, 10 of us who also went through this.
00:23:54
Speaker
Yeah, just to paint a little bit more color on that picture, how many dancers of those 10 are originally from Dallas, Texas? None of us are from here. So that means everybody moved to Dallas to take this job. Okay, just to add a little bit more color to the picture. Yeah.
00:24:08
Speaker
I know you said there was a huge support from people in the city at your rally. Do you feel like you've gotten more supports, you know, emotionally, but also like physically? Yeah. So a lot of people have been reaching out to our dancers of BBDT Instagram and said like, we have studio space available. If y'all need studio space, we have classes. You can join our classes.
00:24:27
Speaker
Some people have reached out to us about teaching jobs and performing opportunities, so that really feels like, okay, we can get our footing as far as finances, and then we're also trying to just divvy it up between 10 people. Yeah, just the community support with sending letters to management. Also, people have been supporting us for our GoFundMe. We're close to reaching our goal. The goal is that everybody would
00:24:50
Speaker
be able to pay their rent for at least three months. That way they can have three months to figure out what their next step are. Also, people have just been on our Instagrams just saying like, we love you, we support you. Just that has been very, very nice. And that's because the dancers are who make a balance by dance theater.
00:25:09
Speaker
the dancers are who we come to see and who we support. So I think we're definitely feeling that in this moment. And I think that's important for us to remember. It takes a village to make the work happen. That's not to undermine any of the administrative support or the labor that's happening there because that's work, that's necessary. But when we go to see Dallas Black Dance Theater, we're gonna see the Dallas Black Dance Theater dancers.
00:25:31
Speaker
Ah, just being here this season, I know I could see the importance of us unionizing because we were in the studio mostly by ourselves, creating all the work or fulfilling the assignments. Yeah, they would be sent down from management, but there would be weeks where it's just us in the studio. And then we put on a performance or we may not see management until the performance. And so we just needed a lot more credit for what we were doing and what we were contributing to the organization.
00:26:01
Speaker
And unionizing was a way for us to get that credit. I don't know if the response was just fear or the response was denying the value of dancers, but the dancers at Dallas Black Dance Theater make that organization incredible.
Controversial Use of Dancers' Video
00:26:16
Speaker
We really do. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you are left with a lot of responsibility and not a lot of autonomy, which is a scary place to be in any workplace.
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's the infantilization that we experience, you know, as dancers all the time. I always joke and say that we have about the same amount of power as we did in ballet tap combo two to four throughout our professional careers. And what I mean by that is like what we get to wear, you know, how we get to show up into this space. I know there were some really archaic and kind of extreme rules that are being revealed in these contracts. I mean, they said they let the dancers go because of this video.
00:26:50
Speaker
It's 2024. The smart companies are using videos like this as marketing to get some butts in those seats. So I think that there's a lot of opportunity for growth here on both sides throughout this moment.
00:27:01
Speaker
And that video has gotten 30,000 views, maybe more. And that's more than Dallas Black's following on Instagram. So I think it could have just been helpful and could have added to the company. They did not have to villainize it. Cause it's a wonderful video. Our intention was just to introduce ourselves and to express the joy that we have in the studio. Like regardless of what's happening to us from management or like
00:27:29
Speaker
situations could be better. We are such joyful people and we love dancing with each other. We're inspired by each other. And we wanted to share that in that video. And I think we did. I loved it. And I think that's what makes people want to come see a show. Exactly. They see the people, they see the joy and they connect with you. And it's not just like some ethereal thing that's otherworldly. It's like you are real human beings and real people they can connect to and they feel something. That's what's going to keep the art form of dance alive.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. And I want to know what was wrong with the video. I want a point by point list of what was wrong with the video. And then I want us to go see, go look at the historical archives of Dallas Black Dance Theater and see what we've seen on that stage. A lot of the stuff that you saw in that video are part of black culture.
00:28:15
Speaker
And throughout the years, you've also experienced that at a performance of Niles Black Dance Theater. So it's a clear contradiction. It's also anti-Blackness at its finest coming, like Niles said earlier, from Black people. That's one thing that also needs to be addressed within that institution as well. Well, I wanna, like I said, a point by point list of what's wrong with that video. And then I want an explanation of why that's been acceptable in the past on stage with tickets sold, right? There was nothing wrong with that video. It was an excellent show of community, personality, everything you said, Caitlin and Niles.
00:28:45
Speaker
That little he didn't want it to underscore that, but there was nothing wrong with what we witnessed. You saw humanity in that video. And we want to see a little bit more of that from the management of Dallas Black Games Theater. Maybe they should make a video. Who are they? What are their names? Hmm. We haven't seen that video yet. No. And I think it's very clear that it was a scapegoat because they needed to point at something for their actions. And so, you know, found something that they thought they could maybe use. But as we've all seen, there's nothing there. Yeah, because they sent the letters of intent a week after this video came out.
00:29:15
Speaker
Somebody's not doing the math right. Yeah, this has been really enlightening and really helpful to help I think everyone understand what's going on, what you've been through. And like you said, just really add that layer of humanity to this whole situation and help people realize that you are human beings who are now out of work unexpectedly and are really struggling in many ways while still having to be in a very public stage. I'm so grateful for you taking the time to talk to me because I know that you had to do a lot of these.
00:29:43
Speaker
appearances and conversations and I'm sure it's really wearing on you. It's just really powerful that you are still speaking up and still doing this with everything that's going on. I'm sure it's been difficult. Thank you. There's many of us, so we all get to do an interview when another person can't, so I'm happy to do it. And other people have been happy to do it just to share the load because our stories need to be told and people need to realize like this is
00:30:08
Speaker
still going on, like we're still unemployed. We're still trying to figure out how to pay rent. We're still trying to figure out, do we keep dancing? I know I'm 31 and this was one of my, this is my sixth company. And I'm like, okay, do I want to continue to dance or do I want to switch fields? So maybe the older dancers are thinking about that, but the younger dancers, this was their first company. So they're like, shoot, what do I do next? But thank you for wanting to reach out to us. It feels really good that people want to hear our story.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah, and Caitlin, you're doing your part, right, by including us in these conversations. Like when we talked about that community coming together, you're now a part of this community. So thank you for having us and thank you for including us and, you know, sharing these dancers' story. Of course. And I just want to end with some action items for those of us who are compelled and able to take action. What are the things we can do to support the dancers? Give us like the very direct action items.
Supporting the Dancers' Cause
00:30:58
Speaker
Yes, you can support our GoFundMe. Our goal is to reach $35,000 to help each of the 10 dancers be able to pay rent for three months. Also, you can call your people. You can call like Dallas government. You can call state reps and just tell them what's going on with union workers wanting to unionize and then them getting fired. Maybe Antoine knows some more things to do.
00:31:22
Speaker
No, I think that's all great. I think definitely follow the dancers of DBDT on Instagram, and that's where you'll stay up to date with everything that's happening around this situation right now. We also have a couple of different letter writing campaigns going. I know the audition has passed, but we still have an original letter writing campaign you can join in on. Let your people know, get the word out, continue to spread this story as much as you can so that every dancer can kind of see what's happening in Dallas and can make informed decisions about
00:31:50
Speaker
how they want to build a life and build a career because this is something that we should all be watching. Yeah, definitely. I'll put all of those in the show notes for anyone listening to hop on over and make your donation or send a letter. Whatever you're able to do makes a difference. Thank you so much, Nyla and Antoine, for joining me today. I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. Thank you so much, Caitlin.
00:32:13
Speaker
Thank you for tuning into the Brainy Ballerina podcast. If you found this episode insightful, entertaining, or maybe a bit of both, I would so appreciate you taking a moment to leave a rating and hit subscribe. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode. And you'll join our community of dancers passionate about building a smart and sustainable career in the dance industry. Plus, your ratings help others discover the show too.
00:32:38
Speaker
I'll be back with a new episode next week. In the meantime, be sure to follow along on Instagram at TheBradyValerina for your daily dose of dance career guidance.