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It's a Pinball Christmas Miracle with Triple Drain Pinball Podcast
0 Playsin 16 hours
This isn't your typical LoserKid episode! Off the rails ridiculousness does insue. You've been warned.
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Transcript
Introduction and Co-Hosts
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in the loser captain ball podcast. I am Josh with me. I have multiple co-captains today. Let's start with the main one. Scott Larson. And next we did not rehearse this. So whoever wants to go next, Tom Graff, but that was Joel Engelberth. Oh, Jack, Jack Engelberth.
00:00:27
Speaker
It's a off world champion. Travis Murphy. Okay. All right. We have the triple drain podcast. If you're looking, if you're watching us on YouTube, I actually am representing the triple drain shirt, which is one of the coolest designs. So we have, Joel, Tom, and Travis from the triple grain trip pinball podcast. If you have not listened to them, definitely check them out. We don't have us yeah we do have a quick sponsor, Josh, go ahead and take that.
00:00:56
Speaker
Oh yeah. I forget about this. ah I guess I don't forget about it. I can do it. Cause I ordered two machines. So, dude, don't say that. People get ticked when you start talking. No, I ordered them. just ordered them just like everyone else. I got to turn around so you guys don't have to blur my face during this ad read.
00:01:11
Speaker
My gosh. We'll just put Flippin' Outs oh logo over Travis. Over Travis. that is like Okay, so I
Pinball Machine Orders and Issues
00:01:18
Speaker
did order. So I have two friends. I have a partner who just got into pinball, and he just ordered Avengers Infinity Quest Pro game. And he decided to go with the pro. I found ah ah used a used premium, but he wanted the pro. He got all the accessories. And so that's awesome. Got got him set up with that. And I also ah ordered a JAWS 50th with my buddy. So and Zach and Nicole, many flipping out pinball.
00:01:43
Speaker
he They can hook you up. Okay, Josh, go ahead. I agree that we should probably do the five. And the reason being is because Scott breathes into his microphone like this. Oh my gosh, you guys are the worst. Shut up. it just focuses on his face while John Borg's talking about fixing a Star Wars it shoots like butter he told us okay how is that for Tom is it shooting for like butter yet wow No, I'm still waiting for my fix to come. They haven't sent it yet. Wait, David fix is coming to your house?
00:02:15
Speaker
No, no. That's Star. Okay. That'd be awesome. I can fix my own fix. So what Tom is alluding to, which is his his favorite thing. I mean, he's Tom's loving Star Wars, except for the Death Star. If I don't get it by Friday...
00:02:32
Speaker
I'm streaming it the way it is. That's all I'm saying. Are you to nothing but just hit Death Star shots? Oh no. well We're going to have a we're gonna have a kind of reject rejection counter.
00:02:45
Speaker
They made a new part, everybody. They made a new part. Reach out to your distro. You'll get your new part. And Tom, I can't wait. Next time we record, you're going to tell me how great. Oh, shoot's like butter. That's all we're going to hear from Tom. We're
Community and Tournament Experiences
00:02:57
Speaker
hoping.
00:02:57
Speaker
Just promise me if you stream on Friday you don't have the fix, get Joel over there with the microphone they needed for GTF. Yeah, yeah, yeah. GTF. So Tom, you're going to go from, what was it? You said it rejects you like girls in high school too. to what's your That's what he said. These were Tom's words. and Tom's words.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. All right. But the new one, you're just... now it's Now it's your current state of Tom? Is that where... Where everything just slides in. Get out of here. Back away.
00:03:30
Speaker
um a married man. yeah This is great. This is a great episode. Can we do some proper introduction? Okay, yes. Can I tell you guys what Tom and I talked about? This is Travis, by the way, since we were doing introductions. But anyways, Tom and i this weekend. Tom, what were we talking about when we were just standing there between rounds?
00:03:51
Speaker
oh joel Joel is a complete jerk to us. Yeah. Completely. neatly Completely. What? So we had somebody come up to us and be like, hey, why are you guys so mean to Joel?
00:04:07
Speaker
And we were just like, every time. They they don't hear the first 10 minutes when we get together before Joel presses record. That's what we were talking about. So mean to us. Yeah. i don't So mean.
00:04:21
Speaker
So mean. Where's your Christmas spirit? You know, this is supposed to be a holiday of thankfulness and kindness and naughty and nice list. And this is what you're doing, Travis. Don't meet your heroes. All right. just
Pinball Market and Social Aspects
00:04:36
Speaker
Playing Jacob Marley. We have Joel who's saying his chains are as big as your chains. This is not, this is not kind guys. You know, i was looking forward to the night. You cannot gaslight us up like this. He hates dogs and old people. I was looking forward to tonight. And here we are. What am I doing? Like, Josh, he's doing it right now.
00:04:57
Speaker
Like, Tom and I are having, like, an honest conversation. You guys are in a pinball tournament. You guys are in a pinball tournament, and you decided in that moment to talk about me. No. They didn't even bring it to We were just minding our own business. Okay. All right.
00:05:14
Speaker
Well, it's true. all they think of all they think well i appreciate you guys i enjoy this i enjoy doing things with you guys oh my god you can no you cannot do that no welcome to podcast it means something to me you know that's all i'm saying that's it i hope you're all gonna go around it's a flat tire i swear we're all gonna go around and joel wants to say what he likes about everybody in this group chat so Hey, Tom, were you thirsty during Chicago Pinball Expo? Or did somebody you know bring you Mountain Dew? That's true. Over and over again. you know true yes Travis, when you were traveling to that one tournament, did you and your wife stay here at the house? I don't know. I'm just saying. I'm just saying.
00:05:54
Speaker
like being kind to others. We did stay at Joel's house. Joel can be okay sometimes. He did let me have access to his home theater and some his pinball machines. Whatever. It's fine. Wait, I figured this out. This is the Festivus episode.
00:06:09
Speaker
this is the airing of grievances i'm not sure how we're going to do the feats of strength yeah because we're all in different locations but we need to make this happen i mean i'll go first i don't have any because i love all you guys yeah all the way off with that no you don't get to be nice anymore
Podcast Dynamics and Humor
00:06:34
Speaker
all right oh my goodness at this point they're like they're not even talking about pinball so 2025 josh what do you want to talk about i was gonna say if if if clipping this episode doesn't surpass our harry potter clip that we just last week i don't know what will because this is just pure gold pure gold so what friendship is josh
00:06:58
Speaker
I wish we could say it's an act and we plan on it, but we just kind of just bicker. We have, we've been accused before of writing, right? Who writes that was early on in our podcast. People were like, who writes your script or whatever. We're like, stupid bits yeah, we're writing our bits. Yeah. yeah yeah just say joke writers It's AI. Yeah. but's say yeah yeah i I still remember. I think, I think what cemented you guys as just,
00:07:24
Speaker
one of the top podcasts you're only like eight episodes in but the adult themed video game you guys were talking about and like Travis travis was looking at it on his iPad was on the plane no no no that was Dennis Kreisel that did that it was Den Den he told us about it Oh yeah, then I was the one that looked it up. playing yeah Yeah, that's true. yep yep I didn't realize what it was. Yeah, yeahp yeah yeah, yeah. Scarring it.
00:07:51
Speaker
and ah And the lady next to him was slightly mortified but more intrigued than he might admit. Yeah, total stranger. i mean That's when we knew. And now we're at episode 70. It's only confident. It's hard to believe we lasted this long. Has the TSA come to visit you? um Just curious.
00:08:12
Speaker
Well, yeah, I might've had a conversation with somebody about three hours ago, trying to figure out whether or not I'm allowed to bring alcohol, like in my luggage to pinball at the beach. Like I was trying to figure that out.
00:08:25
Speaker
It's in February. You could buy alcohol at the airport. No, no, no, no, no. Like Tom, I'm talking like total DJ and stuff, like put it and actually in my luggage and check it in.
00:08:35
Speaker
and and i would take i would I think you can. I think you're up to five liters. I think you can. You can? okay i I'm not an alcoholic. okay so i I do know this because... they tell though trying to figure out a get Please write in loserkid at gmail.com. Let us know. Teolas always has fireball. Ask him. Here's the bet. Legit guy who doesn't drink. I actually have a story because I had a friend, Julie, who was trying to get me to bring her some scotch or something. yeah julie So I was going to Scotland and she wanted to get some special scotch that was only at the airport.
00:09:11
Speaker
So we bought it and then we actually had to do it duty free. But when we got to Chicago, I had to leave the airport and then pack it in my bag. and then recheck my bag because they weren't going let me just keep it going. So yes, I do know for a fact that you can pack, don't know. It was like two big jugs. I have no idea. It's like seven 50. Is that what they are? There you go. So so you can do that Southern comfort. You can pack to the beach.
00:09:41
Speaker
I totally know what you're talking about. Like, but for the ones that don't like, like Joel, like explain like your five, like what does duty free mean? I totally know what that means. You pay tax. Yeah.
Purchasing Pinball Machines Online
00:09:52
Speaker
It's it's like you are, you're kind of in a,
00:09:55
Speaker
Well, okay, because you're flying internationally, so you're kind of in this way zone between whatever country you're going from to whatever country you're going to. And so you get like, it's like like a crazy small amount of tax.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, I totally knew what like that meant. I'm just saying, I think Joel didn't know. So I just had to ask for Joel. I totally knew what that meant. You're so kind. I didn't know pinball was duty-free across state lines. You just buy in a no-man's land.
00:10:25
Speaker
Stern and all manufacturers should set up a pinball shop in the airport. You can buy pinball duty-free. That's the key. ah Cause then you can just check it in your bag and take it with you. You have to carry it on. No, you have Amazon just send it to you instead. Now that's the, that's what you do now. Right. You guys see, okay. Speaking of Amazon, did you guys see what somebody posted on one of the Facebook groups, right? About getting venom pro from Amazon.
00:10:56
Speaker
yeah already at the price below, but then the box had some damage. Did you guys see this? No, did not. it had some damage. So they were like, oh, I'm going to let Amazon know about this damage box. $1,900. Like it. Yes. Really? Okay. So they're all in. And bought it for five. And the game was just fine. no Like it's a full post. Wow. So they got $1,900 given. How much did they spend on it? like what what It was probably like at the $56.99 that Amazon put up. like Amazon was selling and stern it's like way below what should be. So $3,700.
00:11:36
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Jeff Bezos was like, I got an idea, fellas. Let's just sell pinball. Tom, would you buy a a Venom Pro for $3,700? yes
Harry Potter Pinball Game Popularity
00:11:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:47
Speaker
Tom, would you buy a game from Amazon and go out and take a hatchet to the box and there's damage? There's a $1,900 hit. Right? Yeah. Tom's an honorable man. Yeah. i I can't do that.
00:12:03
Speaker
1,900 bucks is 1,900 bucks. I know. Not to derail this, you know, because I don't. Was it ever on the rails? No, this is welcome to the show. So it's 11 o'clock. i know I know we don't have Tom all night because he's like professional goes to bed at reasonable time.
00:12:19
Speaker
This year, Tom, because Josh and Scott kind of did their 2025 wrap up last year. You, Tom, have actually bought two games this year. Is that right? you No, you had three. you had No, just two. You had Kong and you had Harry Potter.
00:12:34
Speaker
Have you bought any other game from 2025 this year? X-Men. X-Men. No, that's not this year. Was that this year? No, it was last year. question Okay. Wick? No, it was last year. That's it, though. Out of the top.
00:12:50
Speaker
what were these What were the other games? Josh's other ones were, well, you've bought Winchester, but you don't have yours yet. Right. Dune, Portal, Harry Potter. Technically, Jaws 50th.
00:13:03
Speaker
but you already have jaws. So I'm just curious between those. Evil dead. I bought star Wars, uh, star Wars. There we go. Three. Okay. So between those top, what about dungeons and dragons? Yeah. I bought that, but I don't have it anymore.
00:13:19
Speaker
Well, let's include that in your, in your list. And so you've, you've owned four games from 2025. Do you want to go ahead and rank those? No. yeah for all that over you wow Thanks for tuning into the show, guys. It's been riveting. Where's Tom's going to bed? Tom's going to bed. What am I ranking? The games I bought?
00:13:41
Speaker
You're ranking top of the world. Harry Potter. Harry Potter. Kong. ah Where were the other two? D&D and Star Wars. d Wait, Tom, I thought you got a Harry Potter. Wait, did you say that? That was number one. what what What's in this water tonight? Harry Potter is your game of the year in your collection. And that was my game of the year. See, Josh, you're wrong.
00:14:03
Speaker
Harry Potter, game of the year. TikTok, 50,000, baby. It doesn't lie. Joe Mama says you talk too passionately about the game. You talk more passionately about the game than he does about his children. Yeah, more passionately about the game than I do about my kids. Yeah, was awesome. So, Tom, you had not bought Avatar, but before that, you did buy Godfather.
00:14:27
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm just trying to think in the realm of J.J.P. Elton John, too. Elton John, you you got Elton John Hughes. No, I bought it new. Oh, you have that now? Mm-hmm.
00:14:38
Speaker
Would you say Harry Potter's JDP's best game or no? oh I mean, I like it probably the best. Elton John's pretty close.
00:14:49
Speaker
That's pretty good. Is there a, what stands out? We've talked, I know on Triple Drain, we talked a lot about Harry Potter and initially it was just thoughts of code, things we'd like to see, but now that the code's at 1.0. You know, this is the Loser Kid podcast. I know, but I'm just trying to get the most of Tom Graff while we have you. oh And you are the only one of the five of us that own Harry Potter.
00:15:08
Speaker
True. So I'm just trying to pick that mind of yours to see why it's your game of the year. That's all I'm doing. ah Theme immersion. I i like how they they did they took all the movies and made sure they did the best with what they could with with that. I like the the spinning staircase. staircase Yeah.
00:15:34
Speaker
it's It's all good, Joel. The real question, Tom. playfield. Yeah. Yeah, the mini playfield's great. The real question That Quidditch playfield? who yeah Yeah. Who did you pay to get a Harry Potter this year? Because no one else is getting him to like April of next. I didn't pay anybody off.
00:15:53
Speaker
Okay, but you ordered it. You just got early, right? Yeah, you ordered early. No, ah i'm I'm affiliated with Kingpin Games, so nice I was able to secure that through them. so And you have the collector's edition or the wizard's edition?
00:16:10
Speaker
I have the wizard's edition. Cool. Cool. I will tell you, Tom, I mean, I've been mentally going through my headspace because I listened to Josh and Scott. I listened to your episode, your last one, and listened to your top fives. You got great, great reasonings for all your stuff. So I started playing that game in my head.
00:16:27
Speaker
And um the reality is, I don't know if I've given Harry Potter enough credit because to hear Scott, the way you loved it so much. You haven't. Well, that's what i'm saying. i I think I'm what I may i might have. ah I mean, to be honest, I really had high hopes for it because Harry Potter is like my wife's dream theme. So I was expecting her to love it. I was expecting if she loves it, I probably have to buy it.
00:16:47
Speaker
And she just she didn't like she didn't love it the way I was thinking. She did not like the scoop. So I just kind of dismissed it. But when I replay it, and now I've even watched some streams recently, and it's one of those, honestly, I kind of want to get it back to stream some more because I think I just, i maybe I let emotions get in the way. Because I think, honestly, that game's pretty dang good.
00:17:09
Speaker
That game is... It shoots really good. It's really nice. So Tom has a lot of time on it. I've had a lot of time on it, but I realized Scott and Josh, you guys only had technically a handful of games. So in those few games, like something stood out, right? Yeah. My neighbor actually has one. So he has a edition, but i I, okay. I haven't played it a lot just because we're quite busy and I have to go over to his house, but just the way that it's engineered it. Okay. It's not a baby game.
00:17:34
Speaker
Like you, you, you have to actually ah know some things to really get into pinball, which is probably why it was a little challenging for your wife to immediately jump in because you have to know how basic flipper skills and basic shot patterns for you to really take advantage of the game.
00:17:52
Speaker
So i think that's the challenge with Harry Potter is that it is not catering to the entry level player. If you did, you would have something like Medieval Madness. My kids love Medieval Madness. They love Cactus Canyon. They love these these games that are super easy to access. Well, Harry Potter is not that. Harry Potter is a very deep, immersive experience that has so many shot patterns. You have to know a little bit what's going on. if if you're going to give it a penalty at all, is that it's not going to be a simple fan layout that is easy to understand. Now, that being said, I i love that this has last ability. There's a lot of fan layouts that just aren't going to stand the test of time. And if if Harry Potter defaulted to a basic fan layout with ah eight to nine shots and a couple of ramps, I don't think that I would i would like it nearly as much.
00:18:46
Speaker
That was the exact, essentially the exact feedback my wife had, which she said, ah when I'm playing the game, I feel like I'm in Harry Potter. Check. Great. But she goes, i have no idea what's going on, though.
00:18:56
Speaker
Like, no idea what's going on or what. Like, that's the, ah her level of play. She really needs a simplistic... understanding of, I mean, i'm not to be a broken record, but that's why she loved Dune because Dune's light show is very good at only really portraying what you need to do at that moment. There's not all the lights all at once. And that's the that was her biggest issue with Harry Potter was she's like, I know I'm i'm in Harry Potter. It feels like Harry Potter.
00:19:21
Speaker
But she has no idea if she's hitting mode shots. multiple She just doesn't. She's really just batting the ball around. And that that was why it was hard to her for her to connect to it. But for collectors like the five of us, yeah, that game has legs for sure. The longevity and how much they pack to that game. Super impressive.
00:19:38
Speaker
but Okay, but if you think about the stories, though, like Harry Potter, like the books, if you line them all the way up, that is an enormous volume of information that you have to get through. And so the the real Harry Potter fans, they're not the casual readers. They're not the people who want to pick up a book and be done with it in five hours. Like they are going for that immersive experience.
00:19:59
Speaker
And so you're going to have to immerse yourself a little bit into flipper skills, into knowing the rule set to really get into the Harry Potter game, because that, that is what is required for you to experience the game. If they had, you know this is actually one area where JJP could consider something like a, like a home pin, like a Costco home pin version of Harry Potter, because it would sell tons like ah a a dumbed down version of that if you're going to consider doing something like that this theme would warrant it because it would be easy to access it but uh with the way that eric designed this game it is definitely catered for at least the mid-level player and higher yeah but hinting at what josh was saying does jjp really need to worry about sales right now like they've sold so many games
00:20:54
Speaker
they just need to get a maid, right? Like,
Jersey Jack Pinball’s Strategies
00:20:56
Speaker
is the, I don't know. I don't, I would be amazed. I would be surprised if JJP is thinking what's the next thing on the line, because I'm i'm getting the vibe that their line is going to be busy for a long time. Maybe I'm totally wrong there. I mean, obviously I personally, I'm personally, I'm excited because they've made so many of these and looking at their bestselling game, guns and roses, I can get one of these for five grand here. in a cup so I don't think that's going to happen, but it is the lessons that JJP are going to learn from Harry Potter. um well, sorry, the lessons they've learned from Guns N' Roses is you can't just ride one horse until it it stops. And that's a little bit what they did with Guns N' Roses. they They kept pushing that until that was the only option. And then they had to move on. This is the first time that JJP, well, not really the first time because Wizard of Oz was that way where they were able to to mix in some Wizard of Oz runs, Harry Potter is something that they could legitimately be making for seven to 10 years and release a new game, run you know run a few weeks of the new game,
Godzilla Pinball Success
00:21:59
Speaker
swap back, run Harry Potter, and it gives them a catalog of of options that they're going to do so they aren't reliant on just selling one game.
00:22:09
Speaker
Well, we know we know Jersey Jack isn't exactly like the powerhouse that Stern is in manufacturing, though. So that's that's that's the big issue. They might be making it for seven to ten years, but they're not getting as much product out well as they could.
00:22:29
Speaker
The thing to compare that to, right, is is Gomez was just on Kerry Hardy's show, and Gomez essentially alluded to the fact that Godzilla is a is a is very soon going to be the most sold pinball machine of all time. So I think that's Adam's family. It's 20-something thousand games.
00:22:46
Speaker
So to say that Godzilla has sold 20-something thousand games or going to be there very, very soon, like that really does show, one, how great Godzilla is, and two, how many games Stern can put out because it's not like Stern has only been making Godzilla for all these years. They just keep coming back to it. and And I know distributors can't keep them in stock. Godzilla premiums just keep selling.
00:23:07
Speaker
um If only somebody here on this podcast knew something about selling Godzilla. pinball machines and would want to contribute to the conversation. They don't want to hear you talk about Harry Potter. They want to know the sales of Godzilla. I'm just listening. I'm having fun listening. This is like I'm listening to the podcast already. yeah i just happen to accidentally be in It's like four d but ah How many beers in are you now? Welcome to my world, Travis. Three and a half. Three and a half. It's fine.
00:23:35
Speaker
But no, I think Harry Potter is a great game. I think we've talked about this a lot. I love the layout of it. I'm still trying to understand the rules in general, but I'm accepting of what the rules are. So for me, whenever I play it,
00:23:50
Speaker
I honestly, I just shut my brain off completely, which I know some people out there, and especially Joel, be like, oh, that's not too hard for you to I never said that. Crazy. Yeah, I know. I hadn't even thought of it.
00:24:02
Speaker
I'm sure you haven't. Anyhow, so I shut my brain off and I just don't worry about the lessons, but I focus on everything else. And there's still a lot of meat to that bone, right? it's And it is immersive. It does feel like you're actually in Harry Potter that way. It's just...
00:24:18
Speaker
For me personally, I do wish still that I could enjoy the movies themselves a little bit more. And I'm not even worried about it being in chronological order, right? Because there's so much content. It just kind of is what it is.
00:24:30
Speaker
But I do wish I would be able to experience certain, just the way the lessons are, where I would know, okay, I'm in this area. now I'm in this area. Instead of it, just always feeling like I'm trying to race to a multiball and just stack things up and make everything happen.
00:24:47
Speaker
And I think it's kind of like one of those things that I'm not sure. I, I've thought about this a lot. I wouldn't mind having one for my house. And I think what I would personally do if I had one here is I would actually try to set the multi balls to be as hard as possible in terms of qualifying and starting them just so that way I could try to focus more on the lessons and not accidentally start anything else since you're kind of forced to, to go around the play field anyways. So yeah,
00:25:14
Speaker
I don't know. They do have like a feature on the screen where there's like a QR code where you can pick three different things. but Right. Yeah. And the QR code is easy, yeah average, and wizard was hard. So yeah really, yeah for for Travis, you would just set it on the super hard level.
00:25:34
Speaker
i yeah I mean, or your it's kind of weird. Your ability, yeah. So it's kind of
Immersive Pinball at Home
00:25:39
Speaker
weird. It's like, if I have a game at home, I want to enjoy it. I want to get through it. I don't worry about score too much unless I'm in a tournament, then I'm trying to figure out the easiest path to points, right? But if I'm playing at home, I want to get to a wizard mode and I don't really care about the points unless I need to get to a certain threshold.
00:25:55
Speaker
Like say Iron Maiden, you have to get to a certain threshold within your modes or like Flight of Icarus on there, right? You have to get, I think it's like 20 million points in order to light the the soul shard. So,
00:26:06
Speaker
There's some games out there to where you do have to focus a little bit and hit those thresholds. But ideally, I just want to go on a journey when I'm at the house. Like I want to have a beer. I want to stay front of the game.
00:26:17
Speaker
And I want to just like hear the music, hear the call outs because it's a controlled environment. I want to enjoy it. And I feel like Harry Potter could definitely hit... or tick all those boxes off or check all those boxes. So, I mean, in the future, i wouldn't mind having it. So Monica, if you listen to this, I mean, I'm just saying, you know, Christmas next year, hi monica maybe just saying, but I mean, overall I could fully understand why people would put that as their number one.
00:26:43
Speaker
And I think, I mean, maybe if I had more time on it, it could be up there. I mean, it's up there pretty high for me. I mean, it's definitely top three at least. And what's above it, Travis?
00:26:55
Speaker
What's that? well What's above it? I don't even know. See how Joel is? I don't even know.
00:27:03
Speaker
I do, Tom. he's Yeah, I know. He's trying to put me on the spot. He's trying to. Joel, ah okay, I'll tell you. The two games above it right now, Venom and Walking Dead Remastered. There.
00:27:14
Speaker
Number two, number one. And if you'd like either one of those. The demo company's got them in stock, ready to go. Travis will personally truck it out to the truck for you. yeah We'll sign in a box. box yeah yeah We'll do it all.
00:27:30
Speaker
But no, i think I think Harry Potter is a good example of what happens when everything goes right for a company to get this game out, right? So that being like, we don't know what happened behind the scenes with it. But what I'm saying is in terms of ah passion put into the game, in terms of just nice looking art, a great layout, a great theme,
00:27:55
Speaker
A company that obviously wants to put as much into their game as possible. They're willing to put a lot of money into it. So that right there, I mean, that's great for pinball fans. I don't think anybody out there could argue that it's thats not. And i mean, even besides that, if you look at every other manufacturer out there, this is a great time.
00:28:15
Speaker
to be a pinball fan. It really is. Because I think nearly everybody's clicking on all the cylinders, I would think, right? I mean, Spooky, what did they come out with this year? Evil Dead.
00:28:26
Speaker
Evil Dead. And then what's their newest game? Beetlejuice. Beetlejuice, but we haven't. i know yet What do you mean? That's a 2026 thing. What do you mean Beetlejuice, but like Joel?
00:28:37
Speaker
wait Why are you saying Beetlejuice? I'm not. i It's not. i It's not out yet. Right. pe But is it sold out? Can you find one? Yeah, it is. I get it.
00:28:49
Speaker
So from a sales standpoint. Well, no, so, well, not just that, but I'm saying like, as pinball fans, the fact that everybody's going nuts and buying a game, like selling it out before it's even revealed.
00:29:03
Speaker
It's good. and It's a very good thing. And this is in a down market, right? If if you look at Pinside or Facebook, people talk about how the market's tanking, it's this and that. Yet we have a machine selling out sight unseen.
00:29:16
Speaker
Yet we have Harry Potter crushing things. Yet we have Godzilla about to set a record for the biggest selling game of all time. Winchester sold out in less than 48 hours. The banner to my right. Exactly.
00:29:31
Speaker
It's, it's been an amazing year. I know, um, they you know, I know Stern, um, one of what I've learned is, uh, like an amazing seller for Stern, like Jaws 50th has been, uh, has crushed. Like that's a game that technically is not that model is new this year, but it's just like, I, I have no doubt. I don't know exactly what Gomez said, but it's the production is like, they have they are producing a lot of games this year.
00:29:54
Speaker
So with your down market, Travis, but yet the production and the sales are good. Yeah, i so I got a theory on this and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, if you think it's different, but like, so obviously it's like some sales are up, some sales are down, but I truly believe it's more or less because there's just so many dealers out there now, so many distributors out there now and so much being produced it's easy to think that whatever's coming out has been diluted, I guess is the right word to say, because you can't just have infinite allocation across the board, right? Otherwise the five of us yo-yos would all have our own pinball companies and we'd all be multimillionaires because we'd sell like 5,000 year, but that's just not
Trends in the Pinball Market
00:30:40
Speaker
reality. So, you know, I often wonder,
00:30:44
Speaker
if pinball is actually really well off, it's just happens to be the distribution network of pinball. It's just so vast that maybe it outgrew the amount of people that are willing to buy pinball during that timeframe. That's kind of what I think happens because obviously if we don't have say like, just throwing out a random, random number, if we don't have say 30 dealers out there, right. Or distributors and all that,
00:31:12
Speaker
all that product becomes compressed down to everybody else. Like, are we really talking about a down year? You know, it's just it's just so many different so many different themes out theres Are you saying it's, so it's been a it's been a great year for manufacturers, but it may not necessarily be a great year for distributors?
00:31:33
Speaker
Is that what you're hinting at? I mean, cause there's just so many, there's so many around, right? Like, I don't know how it is downstream. Like I know for us personally, like we're happy where we're at. Like I know there's probably several several other distributors that are happy where they're at, but I know there's probably some that may not be just because if there are so many games being produced,
00:31:53
Speaker
You can't just have infinite allocation. It's got to spread around. But if you're all fighting for the same piece of the pie too, how does that how's it work? you know I don't know. I'm just trying to math it out in my head.
00:32:04
Speaker
What do you guys think? I have no idea. Because there's so many great games being produced. That's the thing, Mike. There is no shortage of quality product out there. There are a lot of great games.
00:32:16
Speaker
And i know at least... At least the games that we've mentioned, you know, what ah Evil Dead, Star Wars, D&D. ah Unless you wanted an Evil Dead or a Winchester and didn't it. Winchester, yeah. put a Yeah, Winchester. Like, there's a ton portal. Like, i almost feel like every company has released just a banger this year. And if you just happen to, like, we've talked, Winchester's an incredible game. And unfortunately, Tom's the only person on this podcast that was smart enough to buy one.
00:32:45
Speaker
So if the other four of us wanted high five, is that what you're doing? We're getting one. The pinball company has one. Yes. But if we all of a sudden we wanted one, me, Scott and Josh, We're out of luck. We pay, well, we pay a premium. You can buy it from me for $25,000. I'll be more than happy to give it to you. I'll have Carl sign it for you. I mean, yeah I can't get an evil debt if I want one either. But that's what I'm saying is there, if if you're in that situation where you're like I can't get that.
00:33:10
Speaker
Luckily, there's some other really great options. It's not like you struck out for the whole year. You're not locked out is what you're saying. Yeah. Oh yeah. I have a theory, but I want Josh, I want Josh to give his take.
00:33:22
Speaker
on On what now? Okay. Let's hear the theory. Welcome to the conversation. Okay. Dude, you do our market trends. This is exactly what we're talking about. We're talking about, is that a down year for pinball? Travis's thought was, no, it's just because the distributor pool seems to be bigger. And so it may feel a little bit, uh, it may feel a little depressed for each individual distributor, but really for us, there are a lot of great options out there. And if you don't hit the, the one banger game that you like, there's ah like four or five other banger games out there.
00:33:58
Speaker
But I'm so Josh, do you, do you feel this is like a down year on pin pinball at all? i I don't think it is, but I have my own theory. I need to give a disclaimer. The numbers I deal with are used numbers. I don't have access to dealer numbers and distributor numbers. This is a question that gets brought up a lot. like But what's selling from the distributors?
00:34:19
Speaker
I haven't a clue. Those are private numbers to those companies. And that if they want to share them, awesome. But I... I'm not going to go around. Yes, Travis. I mean, I'll tell you right now, during Christmas time, everything pretty much. Everything's up? Oh, well, everything sells. Like, people want games. But I think i think if you're doing used games, I think it is good to kind of see, does it go up, does it go down?
00:34:41
Speaker
And I think it's going to be very hard nowadays to say any Stern pinball machine goes up because they have to produce so much volume. I think it's the same way. Like you mentioned Guns N' Roses earlier in Harry Potter. There's going to so much volume with Harry Potter. I think, yes, I fully agree. Within the next few years, we will see those prices come down on used games because there's going to be a lot.
00:35:03
Speaker
Now, Evil Dead, Beetlejuice, Winchester, games like that. Walking Dead remastered. Yeah. Besides that, Tom Graff. There's only 500 LEs. But those other three games, you I think you're going to see the prices stay steady. If not, continue up. like i I've heard of somebody that paid $7,500 over MSRP for their Beetlejuice.
00:35:27
Speaker
Like that is realistic. That's what happened. Yep. So I mean, you know. so So back to your question though, like the used market itself, the actual numbers of games that are selling used is less and less year over year. We've been in a downtrend for at least two years now, but the price, of the prices went down, but like Travis has alluded to certain games like evil dead champion pub for some odd reason,
00:35:55
Speaker
like obviously those, the bangers from the nineties, your, your medieval madness, your attack for Mars, your circus full terrors, they're all either staying steady or they're going up. So I think it comes back to that whole idea of like, people are being more picky with what they want to buy. and if it is limited in number, like Winchester, like evil dead, like a true limited, right? Like, um,
00:36:17
Speaker
it's going to either retain its value or go up because it's proven to be a really good game up front. And so that, that will proceed to keep going forward. Now, walking dead Ellie, I, I, I haven't a clue, especially where they, they haven't even sold all 500. So let me ask this, let me ask this question to the to the group here. Um, if you were, if, if you were a person who just happened to click on the right ad and all of a sudden rediscovered pinball,
00:36:43
Speaker
Is this, 2025 good into pinball? year for somebody to get into pinball I've got this answer. Okay, Josh, go, go, go. Okay. This is what's insane to me. So last week I've alluded to this already last week.
00:36:57
Speaker
Well, as Joel had said, we did our top five of 25, right? And I clipped the episode, the like every blah, blah, blah. And Scott's number one was Harry Potter.
00:37:08
Speaker
And it went viral on Tik TOK. Like we hit 50,000 views in like two days or something like that. It was nuts. Two, three days. But the comments is what was blowing my mind because people like, no, medieval madness is the best. No champion pubs the best. No, ah South park is the best. All these, the best games were from the nineties and there was multiple people saying like, there was one that said like, um, I don't know how I stumbled into pinball fandom, but I'm loving this.
00:37:40
Speaker
So it's crazy because I feel like Harry Potter, at least for us with what we did, broke through the pinball enthusiast wall and somehow went into the general audience, like just out there.
00:37:53
Speaker
And yes, I think this has been a fantastic one of the biggest themes that pinballs ever had. It accomplished a monster thing. It's a great design.
00:38:04
Speaker
It's a high quality product. And you you have all those things together that are producing Harry Potter because it is really what people wanted. People want the high level product of Harry Potter. They don't want like a yeah like a home pin version of it. They don't want a Costco version. They want an in-depth version of it. And if you look at the video, is so great. How many different options there are? And if you even look at the the tree, like that tree, even Eric was talking about how complex that tree is to make just so it it moves up and down with the car and like the bra the branches wave, it's it's a high level achievement. And so part of it is the visualization of the such a great pinball machine that breaks through.
00:38:53
Speaker
But I'm going circle around a little bit because what Josh was saying is the used market is a little depressed. Okay, here's the question.
00:39:04
Speaker
why Why does a used market depress? And I'll give you the hint. In the 90s, which games were the expensive ones to buy?
00:39:14
Speaker
They were the used ones because the new games weren't that good. And so what was happening is people are like, well, i i I've gone over this before in the 2000s. I can name like four games that I'd really like to own.
00:39:28
Speaker
And two of them I do. Like, you know, Pirates of the Caribbean is great. ah Simpsons Pinball Party is great. um ah lord Lord of the Rings is great.
00:39:38
Speaker
And I think there was like one ah like, OK, but that's a whole decade. OK, this year we have five games that I would legit buy. And so if people are like, well, I can sell my old game because I want to buy the new one. Well, a lot of people are doing that. And so the prices are dropping because people are saying, hey, I want to sell. I want to sell this game because I want to do hot game.
00:39:59
Speaker
Now, they will equilibrate over time, but that is that is a side effect of how effective the the manufacturers have been this year at producing a product that people want to pay sticker price for.
00:40:13
Speaker
Well, yeah, and I know i know Zach with Flippin' Out, he's had great success this year with trade-ins. I mean, the the two games I streamed the last two weeks, I got a Bond LE sitting right here and a a Hobbit sitting right here. Those games were both traded in, and it's all people trading in trying to get the new thing.
00:40:30
Speaker
The reason I had asked the question of, is this a good year to get into pinball? If I look at the current pin side top five, Number one, this was a change today. I don't know if you guys were aware of it, but ah the new number one, the new number one is Jaws.
00:40:42
Speaker
The new number one on Pinside right now is Jaws. Jaws, Godzilla, Harry Potter, Medieval Madness, Evil Dead. By a wide margin too. Yes. It's not close. Yeah. So the question is, if somebody's new to pinball and they see whatever, they see the hot thing people are talking about is Beetlejuice, you can't buy one.
00:40:59
Speaker
If they see the hot thing is Winchester, can't buy one. If they see, oh I want to get a Harry Potter, you call up a deal, they're going to be like, you're going to be waiting A while. Medieval Madness Merlin, they're like, oh, those went for sale. I'll get that one. Sold out.
00:41:14
Speaker
Godzillas are... i mean, they're coming, but yet I know of multiple distributors that are sold out. Jaws, get in on the Jaws 50th now. Get in on it now because within the next few weeks, that that list is closed. So I'm just...
00:41:27
Speaker
I'm just curious if... and then on And then the other side of that is the used market. The prices are still high. At least when I entered the hobby, like used games were cheap. That was a way to get into the hobby, buy them broken, fix them up, stuff like that.
00:41:40
Speaker
i don't know. I'm just curious. like we're not The five of us aren't in that position. We've been in this hobby for years. I'm just trying to think of of the new people to all this that have rediscovered pinball. And are they do they feel...
00:41:53
Speaker
like they're behind in a way as in like, Oh, I missed out. I didn't know that I had to build a relationship with a distributor and get on their list. I didn't know we need to think ahead before these games are revealed or no, Travis is shaking his head. No. and Well, so we're talking, we're talking about two different things. And
Nostalgia and Pinball Value
00:42:09
Speaker
I think one thing that, cause I know like, I don't want to toot our own, our own horns, but I know pinball manufacturers are going to listen to this. So,
00:42:18
Speaker
The number one thing that I've discovered and you guys like Josh, like hit the nail on the head when you guys were talking about your tick tock, right. That went viral. I think it's, it is criminally underestimated.
00:42:31
Speaker
at what happens when you reactivate somebody's nostalgia for pinball, because there is more people out there that know about pinball that have just forgotten it. They're like Peter Pan that has grown up. They've done other things and they've just forgotten it.
00:42:47
Speaker
But the moment something clues them in and they remember it, That's where they kind of get that bug. So it's not necessarily just about finding somebody that doesn't even know pinball exists. Right. So there is that type of person.
00:43:02
Speaker
But just like you, like you guys say, like you show something like Harry Potter and all of a sudden people are talking about South Park. People are talking about Champion Pub. You know, there's all these other games and I see it all the time on our used games that we sell. I see what the biggest used sellers are and there are games and titles that I won't reveal here publicly, but it's games that people would be shocked that sell very well at very high prices used. And it's because it gets people to remember what it was when they were in bars in the 90s, in the 80s. They remember that stuff. And so all the sudden, that they just rediscover it 20, 30 years down the line.
00:43:41
Speaker
And it it just tees something up in them. So I think that's kind of the important part. And that's great with content when you can reach people in different ways. and they rediscover it, there's always new people like that. Just all of a sudden coming back to the hobby that were once a part of it without even knowing they were a part of it.
00:44:00
Speaker
Like they might've played on location, right? Put a couple of quarters in here and there. Maybe like every week they went to the bar when they were in college and then they just kind of forgot about it over the years. They got married, had some kids, got a job, got a beer belly. But then all of a sudden, 25 years later,
00:44:16
Speaker
they might rediscover it. So I think something like that's super important. But no, the next thing is with the used prices, I personally think people need to not worry so much about use prices. I get it.
00:44:27
Speaker
There's a lot of people that want the prices to stay steady. They want to feel like whatever they're buying is an investment. But I don't know what else to tell you guys other than if you're buying something, if it's an investment, you better damn sure make, or sorry, darn sure make well, or make sure that there's not a bunch of supply out there of it.
00:44:47
Speaker
Otherwise, if you're buying something that's infinitely made, why ah like Why are we having the shock Pikachu face that all of a sudden it goes down in value over time? I don't think it's investment though. I think what it is is people want to buy a product they're investing five, ah i guess not even investing, they're setting aside three, four, five, $10,000. And they're hoping that if they decide to switch that out, that they can find something for same value or not. And I grant like maybe used, I think it's ridiculous to buy something used and think you could trade it for something brand new out of the box.
00:45:25
Speaker
But at least like my, my thought process was when I first got on the hobby and was buying used, I was like, I just hope that my, giant mnemonic my shadow whatever it may be will retain enough value so I can transition that into another pinball machine because I think a lot of us sells our collection to bring collection in, right?
00:45:44
Speaker
I think if you are looking at this as an investment, then you might need to pick a different hobby. because Okay, I think everything we buy, we want to be able to have some sort of retained value. But let me talk about how many things really are that way.
00:46:00
Speaker
i don't think the four-wheeler that we buy, we expect to be able to sell it for more than what we we buy a four-wheeler for. and and a our boat and in a TV. i going to Joel likes golf carts. That's you know ah If you want the golf cart with the pink sparkly cover with the tassels, i mean that is a unique investment and you may be able to sell it for more for the right buyer. But the bottom line is we know that most of the time, like the TV that I bought when I moved into this house, I paid $5,000 it years ago
00:46:37
Speaker
And i can get a better TV for 1200 bucks. And, but it's not like I'm going to go without the TV. So this is what I tell people when they buy games and they're trying to sell for, you know, you know, whatever, 80% of what they, it was like, okay, so let's just look at it realistically.
00:46:54
Speaker
If you buy a game for 6,000, let's just throw $6,000 out there. Okay. So you own it for a year. And let's just say if you were playing that, you could put, you could just say 50 to a hundred bucks a month of wear and tear enjoyment on that. Okay. So after a year, if you really want to sell it for $4,800, you've still gotten use out of that because you can go and play those games. You can have fun with it. You can invite people over. I had the women's league over here ah for their December social last week. And they had a blast playing all these games.
00:47:31
Speaker
And so if you're looking at it that way, it's like, okay, this isn't, how many things do you buy and you put it in a safe and you never actually use? These are actually fun things. And a truck that you buy for $70,000, you're not going to sell it for $70,000. Like this is a use item.
00:47:46
Speaker
like this is a use item Well, think too, what what's really not quantified in this and you kind of touched base on it Scott, is that what is your time worth when you have a game at your house?
00:48:00
Speaker
What is your true time worth? Cause you're not, you're not spending time going to a bar, going to an arcade. You're not spending gas going there. You're not subjected to possibly buying overpriced food somewhere or buying at a premium for drinks.
00:48:16
Speaker
you're not You're not doing that constantly. Now, granted, lot of us, we have pinball at home. We probably go on location. But the point being, if you have a game at your house and you really quantify how much you're actually saving over the course of the year by having that game there compared to if you just went out,
00:48:35
Speaker
If you decide to resell it, like honestly, a lot of people would probably actually break even or even come out a little bit ahead. Because I know for a fact, if I go to the local arcade, I'm probably, if I take my family and my kids there, I'm probably spending 40 bucks instantly.
00:48:51
Speaker
Just on like coin drop, whatever. And now I haven't even put in drinks. Now I haven't included food. All of a sudden it's $125, $150 a night because we all know how expensive entertainment is. For one night.
00:49:04
Speaker
For one night. Yes. For one night. Yes. And I have to get dressed and I have to shower Tom graph. You have to put on pants. so Please. Okay. Legit. This happened to me this week. This, it was like nine 30 and I'm trying to get my kids to bed and they know where my Achilles heel is. And my daughter comes and she's like, Hey, I know I'm starting, I'm supposed to get ready, but can I go down and play pinball?
00:49:27
Speaker
And I'm like, Okay. So she goes down. And so then I go down and my son goes down and she's like, okay, let's, so let's play a game. So let's choose these three games. And she's like, okay, medieval madness, cactus Canyon, Jurassic park. So we spent an hour down here at night,
00:49:44
Speaker
Playing game rush. It's 31 on the, on the pin side. That's true. I could do rush. It's hiding behind Winchester, but okay. This was like, this was a total free evening entertainment that it was like, this is awesome. I don't have to drive anywhere. It's right here. And easily, if I loaded my kid, I would not have had that experience
Home Entertainment with Pinball
00:50:04
Speaker
with my kids. If I did not have games in my house.
00:50:07
Speaker
Because it was 930 at night. We were trying to get ready for that. Well, not just that, but as parents, we all know when your kids get tired of doing something, especially when you're out public, guess what? Daddy's done playing pinball then. yeah But if daddy's at the house, daddy's going to keep playing pinball. Like I don't have to worry about it then. So it's like there's give and take to it. i I just wish a lot of people would kind of look at it that way because it's more like, what's the fun aspect? What's your time worth? What is What is those moments worth? You could be like Tom Graff and you buy the game so you can you have an intimate relationship with the game so you know how to win at family tournaments and and then you take all that money you win from the tournaments and it pays for the pinball machine. Right, Tom? Oh yeah. oh yeah wouldn' I'm killing these tournaments.
00:50:59
Speaker
Those earnings, man. if ah I mean, i think all five of us obviously enjoy having pinball in our house. There's no doubt about that. And I don't, I mean, I get it. This is all stuff that's been discussed before. And obviously, if you look at games, you know, there's a big ratio there to buy a video game. There's a reason GameStop people, you know, people would spend $70 on a game. They'd play the heck out of it and they're like, I'm bored of this game. I don't want any more.
00:51:23
Speaker
and they'd trade it in and they'd be like, what? i'm only getting $15 for it? like you Obviously, we don't want that type of drop with a $10,000 item. we don't I'll take a $40 drop. who Yeah, to to be $2,000. But the other issue with Pinwall Wright is not only is it an investment, but it also takes up space. So you don't want a game sitting there yeah that's taking up space.
00:51:46
Speaker
So I do. I, that's awesome that the used market is, is there. It sucks to sell games sometimes. If you can like, I know there's other distributors that also do trade-ins. That's awesome that that's a, that's a thing that you hope your game, I can play the heck out of it for a year. If I get bored with it, I can trade it into and get a brand new game and and enjoy that. And,
00:52:04
Speaker
And it's hard to compare that. The only other, mark like, I started getting more and more into board games, and I realized the board game resale market is actually pretty big. Really? Because some of these games are a few hundred bucks. And so they'll play it, you know, you may put a few hours into it, but if you realize your family or your game group doesn't love this game,
00:52:23
Speaker
You got three or four hundred dollars wrapped up into this one board game. So they'll sell them on Facebook for 200 bucks, you know, take the hit because they want to reinvest. So I think in the gaming space, there are other things, but I don't know any other games that are ten thousand dollars.
00:52:36
Speaker
I just don't. I don't know. well at level and i told you i told you guys about this today it it kind of dawned on me so the town that i live in i know the city city people and they called me up because they have an old decrepit hotel and like josh we found a stash of arcade games we would like you to least come and tell us what they're worth and everything like that and and arcades not necessarily my forte pinball more is but show up and there's seven games in here right And I call up a buddy that owns an arcade who deals in arcade machines. And I said, Hey, this is what I have. I don't know if, cause it's an old decrepit building. There's no electricity. I don't know if these can plug in and play. And I'm like, are these worth anything? And he's like, as they sit for all of them together, you're looking like 800 bucks to a thousand dollars. And these are like mortal combat.
00:53:24
Speaker
Point blank was one of them. Like there's, there's some good titles in here and it's like, Oh, I'm like, okay. Like what are they, if they are working in like, they're pretty much like you can sell it to a house and and they're in decent condition. he said all total probably three grand cause you're probably about 500 per game. Yep.
00:53:42
Speaker
$800 on the high end on some of these. And if you restore them and that takes effort, by the way, and that takes effort. I sold I sold the turtles because I'm like, I don't want to take the effort to, uh, to fix it. But what's funny to me is, is like, here's seven arcade games sitting in this building and they don't even equal a lethal weapon.
00:54:00
Speaker
You know what i'm saying? Like, yeah, pinball's kind of to the point where the entry points almost three grand nowadays, even with used pinball. If you don't want to deal with the headache of EM and if you don't want to deal with the questionability of early solid state, you know saying?
00:54:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's an expensive hobby. there's no There's no doubt about that. But I do know, I mean, we have we have plenty of people that, whether they watch our streams or or watch our you know listen to these different podcasts, there's plenty of people that engage in this hobby that don't own a machine. And that's cool. That's awesome that there's locations and other tournaments, other ways to engage with pinball.
00:54:34
Speaker
um So it's... Yeah, it's really nice. it's um It is important. I mean, I do know some of these games, especially these modern ones with the crazy light shows they have and some some of the crazy sound design that they have. It's it's really hard to appreciate that on location ah when you can get it in your home environment. It's it's an amazing... like There's some amazing moments now built into games. And I...
Evolution and Highlights of 2025
00:54:56
Speaker
and I don't know. Maybe I'm taking this in a whole new direction here, but like Hobbit, I remember my memory of Hobbit was this game is so immersive. and It has an amazing light show. The modes are incredible. Like I have, I had such amazing, I owned Hobbit for over a year. i I had such good memories of this game.
00:55:13
Speaker
Forgetting the fact that this game came out and I think it was 2014. Mm-hmm. Like this game's kind of old at this point. And now revisiting it, realizing like that really stood out back then. But now that type of light show, that type of immersive audio is almost becoming the norm. It's becoming the standard.
00:55:34
Speaker
And it just like all of a sudden the things that made that game in my mind stand out doesn't stand out nearly as much anymore. And so now it's a lot easier to be like, well, this game doesn't shoot amazing. Like I'm not going to overlook like I can get a more immersive or a better light show or a more immersive game and something that came out in 2025.
00:55:51
Speaker
And that's where we got to really realize like how great pinball is going. So i don't know, maybe that's a ah decent prompt for the group. If anybody wants to say something that they think anything, it could be literally anything, something that went like really good in 2025, or maybe something that didn't necessarily go great in 2025 or like something they that they may have been disappointed in So like pinball or just life?
00:56:19
Speaker
I mean, if you want to make it, you go down whatever. Where are we going here? I was going to do a pinball this pinball podcast. And if you want, I can start with a name. Go ahead.
00:56:32
Speaker
I will say. Joel, let's say something negative about a game? I will. I'll happen to it. All right. Let's hear it. I remember at the end of 2024. Get the Grim Reaper man going. No, no, no. At the end of 2024, people were like, what are you most excited for? What are you most excited for for 2025? And my answer was Spike 3.
00:56:49
Speaker
So my negative is I'm not saying Spike 3 in general, um but I will tell you, i do not like the speaker expression lights for Spike 3. That, in my mind, I do think the speaker lights... Thank you like you. The speakers themselves, sound quality, way better.
00:57:08
Speaker
The speaker lights themselves... It's a very white panel. So that's and that's, in my opinion, that is... You're saying it's trash. I'm... I do not enjoy, i do not visually like the new speaker lights in a Spike 3 system. Way to go. Here we go. We're going to get the emails from GoMats.
00:57:28
Speaker
Hey, thank you Tom. I... it's I do not visually like. Got it. That's ah that's the quote right there. I don't love him. I don't love him. and that' what What did I tell you a few months ago about it? i was like...
00:57:42
Speaker
It will be a, what did you say? when Because you heard a lot about Spike 3 and you're like, some people will like it and some people will not. It'll be a very divisive yeah change. And we, I mean, there's a lot to Spike 3. I told you to temper your expectations.
00:57:55
Speaker
The bigger monitor. Because everybody's acting like it's going to be this new spaceship that is just going to propel pinball into like the next millennium and... Bigger monitor is awesome. Like the the the blacks are so much richer on the screen.
00:58:09
Speaker
It's a bigger screen. The monitor, awesome. The sound quality, awesome. Awesome. I don't like the visual speaker lights, and I haven't seen the new expression light rails in person.
00:58:22
Speaker
So, verdict's still out that. The bullets are going the right way now. Yeah, they fixed that. They fixed that. Let's go. You like the sound of your sound. You're welcome. You like the sound of your sound. You don't like the look of your sound.
00:58:33
Speaker
I do not like the expression speaker lights, the new design. I don't like it. I know pin, um, pinwoofer has designed new panels for them already that doubled the amount of LEDs. So those do make it look better. It's just, they're just white. wreck i mean, do you, do you think there could be an adjustment coming from,
00:58:52
Speaker
Maybe in future, like maybe because obviously you don't think so. You think they're just locked in. i think the best thing that somebody could do, and I'm amazed nobody's done it yet, is create a black metal, you know, anodized or whatever, like, or powder coated plate that basically covers most of it and just allows, it reveals the speaker and a ring around it. So it looks more like a normal speaker light with a smaller one above it.
00:59:19
Speaker
That's what I'm amazed nobody's done that That'll be the next Stern accessory in 2026. Start copywriting it. A black panel? I don't know. That's my negative. I'll be the Debbie Downer. Why not? So does somebody have another disappointing moment? your Downer is speaker lights. Well, thanks killing pinball, Joel. I was pumped. I was pumped for it. Yeah, I was pumped. First you kill GTF.
00:59:43
Speaker
You killed Halloween. That wasn't 2035. And now you kill speaker lights. Now you're pointing fingers. I'm not saying that at all. At least he didn't kill Cuphead. That's true. He did not kill Cuphead. Do you want me to do a positive? Yes. I'm trying to let somebody else. All right. Carl D'Angelo has entered pinball design.
01:00:03
Speaker
That is a positive. 2025 has brought carlo Carl D'Angelo to the table as a pinball designer working for a manufacturer. As somebody, I think I'm like the only person on the planet that has had a Winchester in their home for like two weeks.
01:00:20
Speaker
That game is incredible. I think Carl had one in his home. Man, what glow. Listen this humble brag. Did you guys hear that? I'm not trying to brag. I'm just saying to have that complete package, so that complete package, the everything about that game and the fact that Carl has taken ownership not only of the design, but also of the creative direction of the game.
01:00:41
Speaker
He's working with Jeff on sound. He's working on oh Brian. Not Brian. Who's the guy that did art? rabbi Brad, bra auto yeah mcrad got it.
01:00:51
Speaker
He worked with Brad on art and he's working on like, he designed all the rules. And so as somebody who's played the heck out of that game, that is a fully thought through game. And it's, and it's like maybe 40% of the way done.
01:01:05
Speaker
Like I just, that is something that, that should be a highlight for 2025 that Carl D'Angelo has been fully brought into pinball creativity and and development there would be my there's a positive note on 2025 okay josh your turn uh my debbie downer probably is cuphead like i i really wish i could have to play cuphead and and see it actually produced i think like i feel bad for ryan mcquaid this was his first and to kind of be shortchanged um
01:01:39
Speaker
Are we even allowed
Challenges in Pinball Design
01:01:40
Speaker
to talk? Well, I guess, yeah, it's Cuphead. Anyhow. I mean. Allegedly. it's an Allegedly. yeah it's It's an open speculation at this I have no idea. Who do you in the HR? It isn't trying to sue me, so I don't care. so no But anywho, no, like I, I just, I feel bad. Like it's just this like whole crumbling effect right there at the end. Right? Like it was just, anyhow it was close. Yeah. Yeah. That was probably my Debbie downer moment, but no, okay but I really, I,
01:02:08
Speaker
right i really I mean, or do you have more downers? No, I really think like, seriously, like Winchester was just such a game that blew me away. Like I was not expecting Carl to be in it in, in the game ah this early. i think that we knew that he was starting to start building something, but the fact that like barrels of fun scooped him up and man, and he even had some, some help. i don't know if people know this, but he had a little bit of help in previous games already too. So it's like,
01:02:41
Speaker
it's it's it's already bleeding through the product, right? And it's proving that this this is kind of where Pinball's heading. And I'm excited. I'm excited to see. Like, if 2025 is the beginning of all this, I can't wait to see what 2026 and beyond brings because, man, it's so good.
01:02:59
Speaker
Same with Harry Potter. Like, Harry Potter, like, that game is fantastic. And the fact that, like, it bounced back from the AI art fiasco with, like, the derpy dragon, like, just...
01:03:11
Speaker
It's on my game. Yes. You have the Derby dragon? double Tom has the Double D dragon. I don't care. He needs the Triple D dragon. I just want to play the game. i I didn't notice it at all until somebody pointed it out. And even still, it's like,
01:03:28
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. But no, that's, it's honestly 2025. Scott and I talked about this last episode or two where it's like, so like seriously, the quality of pinball of 2025 has been elevated so much more where the previous years it was like, why I really don't have to figure out what I want to buy. I know what I'm getting this year. It's like, how the heck do I buy these games? Cause there's just too many.
01:03:51
Speaker
And, and my wallet hurts now. Right. i think i I think I might know Tom's negative just because he's mentioned it, I think, on every podcast since he got the name. I want you to say it for me, Joel.
01:04:05
Speaker
The Death Star shot. The Death Star shot on Star Wars this is his most negative moment of 2025. Killed the killed the game for me But they could redeem themselves. They could. They could redeem themselves with that new bracket.
01:04:22
Speaker
But I think you've mentioned this, though, Tom, in multiple things. And I think it's, um and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but it's you feel like, you have mentioned just before, though, that. Tom speaks so little, Joel.
01:04:34
Speaker
Some of the, he speaks, but not in the background, though. In the chats, he's got it. He's talking. He's driving seven hours and doing talk to text all the time. the best typer you've ever seen. He's letting it out.
01:04:46
Speaker
Um, I think you have mentioned feeling like some of, uh, some of the later Stern games, the more recent ones have come out half baked or not fully complete or as a buyer, yeah you get it. As a buyer. Yeah.
01:04:59
Speaker
Every game that comes out of Stern, that, that would, that would probably be my biggest thing is every game that's released is just bare bones code.
01:05:12
Speaker
Yeah. And I... Go ahead I just don't... I don't know. How how do how do you how do we how do you fix it? That's what I don't... Have Ellen start teaching courses. I don't think they can't.
01:05:25
Speaker
I don't, i i think I think Stern just, they want to crank out the games, which which I understand. i mean, if I'm mag manufacturing pinball machines, I want to get the things out and out to my customers. and But in in some sense, you know, it's like a...
01:05:49
Speaker
it's a long process to get to the finish line. Tom, my question to you then, and do you feel like King Kong was at an acceptable level when it came out code wise and that's where they should be at least meeting the standard of?
01:06:04
Speaker
ah Yeah. I mean, I, I would say that I'd say compared to something like X-Men where it was definitely rushed out. They admitted it was rushed out.
01:06:15
Speaker
Um, yeah the game is clearly getting better than what it was when it was released. Um, but, uh, you know, I, I think that's some negative that that would be my biggest negative.
01:06:32
Speaker
And that the tough the tough part is like, honestly, the of all the games I've streamed, because normally I stream them, you know, very, very early
Stern’s Game Updates and Code
01:06:40
Speaker
on. So of all the games I've streamed, one of the worst streaming experiences I actually had was James Bond.
01:06:47
Speaker
When that game showed up, that code was so... I don't even say it was half-baked. Like it was, there was so little there. And we just, it's like, we just, there was nothing. There was like a handful of villain modes, a handful of henchman modes with nothing tying it all together. There was nothing there. whoa But and fast forward to now, we streamed it last week. That game is incredible. It is so good. So props to Stern too. They do, they will, they will finish. They, I do, I do confidently feel
01:07:20
Speaker
that Stern will carry the game. To the end, they will finish. But it's hard. It's hard because it's sucking up your money and your space. Right, Tom? No, and I agree with that. i mean, Stern... Look, even with the Death Star thing, they're they're coming out with the park to fix it, right? Yeah.
01:07:38
Speaker
You know, they're not leaving everybody go, well, this is how it is, you know? And relatively, they're getting it out very quickly, which is great. um You know,
01:07:49
Speaker
and they're They're proving with with John Wick and X-Men, they're getting the code out. But it's just it's just taking a while. And i I understand there's, you know, there's been some changes too. Some people have left, like like Tim Sexton. he was on he was He was the main guy on on Wick. He's now at a different company.
01:08:14
Speaker
But, you know... um yeah i you know But that that's my biggest thing. I mean, let's let's try to get some of these games further along.
01:08:28
Speaker
Well, let's let's bring it back up, Tom. what's your twenty twenty What was the 2025? What is something in pinball that was great?
01:08:43
Speaker
I'm going to have to think about this for No, um no i mean, honestly, all the games coming out, like ah Evil Dead, ah you know, Evil Dead was great coming out of Spooky. um King Kong was great.
01:09:01
Speaker
You know, your guys' top five that you released, all those games that that have come out this year have just been fantastic. You know, Harry Potter, Winchester. mean, there there really hasn't been...
01:09:14
Speaker
a lot of dogs released, right? um Except for the one Joel mentioned. No, i' just kidding. no i I don't They're all good. No, they're I think they're genuinely all, like when I stop and think, I think of like, ah you know, P3. I think Portal's the best game they've ever made.
01:09:34
Speaker
I think it's the most fun, easily the most fun game I've had on that. You look at Barrels of Fun. As much as I love Labyrinth, Dune is a better game and Winchester is a better game. yeah Spooky, i would say Evil Dead is probably my favorite Spooky. Like it's, they are, all of these manufacturers are crushing it. I would say Harry Potter's probably my favorite Jersey Jack game.
01:09:55
Speaker
What about Predator? Predator, I only played a game on I don't really have enough Let's not go too far. Predator was on par with Alien. We found the line. and so but Okay, you guys are actually getting exactly what what my best of. And really, I'll talk about the best of in that my top five and honorable mention. you know I put Evil Dead as an honorable mention just because it's not a game that I will personally have in my house. Sure, okay yeah.
01:10:23
Speaker
So think about that. I had Evil Dead. I had Kong. I had portal. I had a Winchester. i have Dune and I have Harry Potter. Okay.
Improvements in Game Quality
01:10:35
Speaker
Of the six best games of the year, how many were made by Stern? One, one. And so if you're looking for a a highlight of the entire year, it's that Every single manufacturer stepped up and took a crack at the ball and hit a home run on so many levels, especially for their personal goals. Okay. Well, and I would even argue like dungeons and dragons kind of got shortchanged little bit. I really do think like Eddie and Dwight did a fantastic job with that. And someone had, and George Fisher, you guys know George from don't panic flip. He'd point out like, I think like they get a bad rap sometimes. But Dwight is trying something so different in pinball that no one else is trying with the RPG, the leveling system and stuff like that. And I agree with George. Like I i hadn't thought about that till pinball expo and he had brought that up. But seriously Dungeons and Dragons is a very solid game. And I think that um it should be given a second look here for 2025 well.
01:11:36
Speaker
so so what is One of the reasons I actually sold Dungeons & Dragons was because I got to the end of it. you know So it was like I i i had seen everything. yeah you know But that's kind of getting to my my downside of the year is that i I think Stern has this system where, just like you guys said, Stern will eventually produce a a finished product of their games.
01:12:04
Speaker
There will, it will get to a point that is satisfactory. Okay. May not be everything you wanted, but they will end up having a solid game. The problem is historically they have been the only game in town that has been producing at at a high level. And so we we've given them a pass for years to say, OK, they can release a game. And you're right. Bond was was so bare bones. The first time I walked up to it and it was like a month old, I G seeded.
01:12:36
Speaker
which I'm like, okay, obviously if I can GC a game, then this is very basic code because I am not, I am not that high level player. And it seems like with Stern, they have continued down that path where they, they've released games that are, you know, they're, they're very early beta.
01:12:58
Speaker
And the other people have stepped up and Elwynn has solidly ah released a game at at least a a high level beta, low level alpha mode where it's like, okay, this is a complete enough game that even if this is what you got, it still feels like a complete game.
01:13:16
Speaker
So Elwin does that. And the other manufacturers said, we're going to shoot for that. And so Stern's other approach of games feel it feels like it pairs. It's pales by comparison just because it shows that other people are willing to release the high level, at least complete enough code.
01:13:38
Speaker
And so if there's a downside, i would just say it's Stern being a little a little casual in in taking their approach for granted to say, okay, we're still going to do what we always do.
01:13:50
Speaker
But it just, the the light shines on it, makes it look like, okay, you guys, you're to a point where you can no longer get away with that and still be the top three games of the year.
01:14:01
Speaker
allah i'll I'll give Stern a pass, though. I mean, I'll play the Stern apologist role. They are putting, like, way more into their games than they have in the past, whether it be animation, um you know, just overall code and depth in the games is way deeper than it used to be.
01:14:26
Speaker
So, you know, you compare it to, say, like, you compare something like Jaws to Munsters and there's just a ah miles difference in, in the depth of the code and, and just fun factor for me anyways. But I mean, to me, I'll wait for something like that, you know, compared to go buying something else from, from the past that maybe isn't
01:15:00
Speaker
depth wise there kind of thing ah it's well we had a game like that though as in medieval madness was sold again this year it sold out and it sold well i'm so sick of medieval madness i know and i i will tell you maybe because i played it this weekend yeah for like an hour but I mean, I just, I think there's, we've had this conversation on Triple Drain, though. Could you could you do a modern day game in a fan layout that is accessible and is fun?
01:15:33
Speaker
But I do know, like I had a ton of fun streaming Monsters the other day. But that depth there, Owen said it on our last episode. Owen's like, if we're go to if we're selling games for $10,000, people need to feel like they get $10,000
Classic vs. Modern Pinball Games
01:15:44
Speaker
worth a game. And so- Yeah, you'd have to sell it at Costco, is what you'd have to do if you do something like that.
01:15:50
Speaker
Well, that's where I do feel Medieval Madness fell short. When I looked at Medieval Madness Merlin, and I'm like, the amount of amount of money that's in this game compared to all the other modern machines that are coming out,
01:16:02
Speaker
the code depth is so drastically different. And for some people, that's a big deal for others. They don't care. Like that's, that's the depth of code they want. Okay. But I, I'm going to push back because it's like looking at the Beatles. Okay. Go and look at those albums. If you look at how simple those albums are, they're actually quite like compared to the stuff that is being produced now.
01:16:25
Speaker
They're very straightforward, very simple, but the Beatles is still kind of the, that gateway comfort band stuff that people will continue to go to. And even, you know, even for me, when I pull, I'm not a big gamer anymore.
01:16:39
Speaker
But when I pull up a game, I pull up like the old n NES Contra. And because I know it, I'm familiar with it, I have fun with it. So yes, you can do a fan layout and there's even creative ways of doing it. George Gomez threw a ton of diverters in Lord of the Rings and it's a fan layout.
01:16:57
Speaker
And so as long as you have unique ball paths, you can continue to make it a unique experience. And so there are things that you can do with the standard fan layout. But if you re-release like the Beatles white album and just do it again, it's not going have the same impact because medieval madness really did capture one of the best fan layouts ever. You could argue and now, okay, this is what we're going to get into though.
01:17:26
Speaker
um And Travis, we ah were, I'm going to come back to you because I am diverting it a little bit. So Cactus Canyon, Cactus Canyon is a fan layout. So I spent the weekend installing my Cactus Canyon complete kit. Okay. Was that fun, Scott?
01:17:43
Speaker
oh Okay. ah Now, okay. I will point out, um I have a degree in mechanical engineering and I am a doctor. Okay. Okay.
01:17:53
Speaker
It took me six hours because I broke a wire and had to go buy it, buy my solder gun. Cause I couldn't find it, but I found it four hours into the process while I was looking for something else. So now I have two solder guns so I can solder twice as fast. I will point that
Mechanical Challenges in Pinball
01:18:08
Speaker
out.
01:18:08
Speaker
And that's how that works. Yeah. And then when I was mounting it, it says, okay, You put the screws in the front and then you put the setbacks behind it. Okay.
01:18:20
Speaker
One of the setbacks is literally right under the switch. yeah And so I'm screwing in the setback and I strip off the solder on the switch.
01:18:31
Speaker
And so me being a brilliant guy thinking, oh, maybe I can unscrew the switch and solder and and move it and I can solder it. And then some of the parts fell into the play field and I spent like an hour looking for it. Okay. So I ended up just taking the whole thing out, finding all the parts, putting the switch together, soldering that switch back and then putting it in. And I, I have old surgical ins legit surgical instruments that are inside people or have been inside people.
01:19:03
Speaker
And I use those suckers to, to secure the setback. And so now I'm five hours into it. Was it a hemostat? Well, it was an angled, it was an angled hemostat. Yeah. I had an angle driver and I also had like a malleable, if you know what those things are.
01:19:19
Speaker
I have pliers. Okay. And I have these really cool. And if you did, I hope you know Monica does all those. There were no record instruments involved here. Okay guys, come on. This is a family friendly podcast. Okay. So I get to the point where like, okay, I'm sorry. Is the rectum scientifically just not family friendly or something?
01:19:39
Speaker
depending on I have a wow stick. Depending on how you use it. Wow. Wow. yeah Remember this? Yeah. There's an old school call back there. Wow. Okay. Go ahead, Scott. Okay. So then it's like, okay, so I got those mounted and it's like, okay, now put on, uh, put on the, the cover to the, the saloon.
01:19:59
Speaker
And I'm looking at it and I'm just like, why did I put the setbacks in? the The setbacks literally connect to nothing.
01:20:10
Speaker
And so it basically took me down a three hour rabbit hole. And I even sent a picture to Josh Sharp. And I said, Hey, why did I even, and and there's a picture of it because the setback is right underneath the switch.
01:20:23
Speaker
And I said, why did I put these setbacks in? He's like, is, doesn't the saloon mount to it? I'm like, no, the saloon mounts to two different screws. I thought there's there's two holes in the back that the setbacks are used to screw. No, no. The holes are actually behind it.
01:20:38
Speaker
Maybe you should have paid Joel to come hang out with you. like No, no. He's a fully capable man. I bet he did it. right We all know of the five people in this group, Monica is the most handy. I need Monica over here to install my my mod here.
01:20:52
Speaker
yeah You guys are like im melting my brain right now. What's the setback? Oh, my gosh. Okay, I will... Okay, do you know what, like, the hex screw thing that... No, you don't actually explain it to him, Scott. Then have to explain the explanation. I'm listening. I'm trying to learn. It's going to take three hours. There hex... I have drill bit screw thingies right here. Okay, Travis. I'm with you. Just think of it as there's a post that you put in... to the play field that elevates it and the screw screws into that.
01:21:29
Speaker
Okay, like a sleeve. Yeah, okay. yeah but but But it's called a setback if you look at the rules. Okay, setback, like a setback. Yeah, and so it actually has yeah it has like a hex bolt thing on it and you screw it in and then there is a place for a screw to go into the setback, but you literally in the instructions, you never install anything in that.
01:21:53
Speaker
So why were you putting the setback in that? Because it was part of the rules. I'm ultimately a rule follower, my friend. wait What do you mean? Okay, wait, wait, wait. He means instructions. start promise you those screw into something. No, they don't. They legit don't.
01:22:07
Speaker
So the instructions said. saying skip them entirely. Well, I'm just saying you don't have to to rip the ah the solder off the switch to do it. Tom, I need an adult. Grab your old surgical instrument. so you get it installed. yeah You get it installed. Was it worth it? Yes. is it Does it? Okay. Yes, because it is a fan layout, but it takes it in a different pathway for the game. It actually gives you a little bit of a danger shot because you have the saloon doors, and so you're hitting it
01:22:38
Speaker
And it actually puts you a little bit of a, oh, well, I need to make sure that I can recover from the ball if I slam it into the saloon
Cactus Canyon Features
01:22:46
Speaker
door. It also has a lot of fun modes that, you know, my my kids were like, oh, and this is a new mode. i'm like, okay, now. Drunken multi-ball. Yeah, and now you can now you can shoot the beer thing and there's something that it's actually worth it. So there's a lot of fun things that you can do to modernize the game. And Joel, I actually agree with you ah with the saloon installation. It does take it to a level that is more fun than medieval madness.
01:23:12
Speaker
i I can say if I buy a Cactus Canyon, I'm making sure that baby's installed before I get it. i I'm looking at the install and search right now, Scott. yeah does It does install. It does hold the back of the mech down. No, it doesn't. There are two clear posts that it is screwed into. It is holding the back of the mech down. i I sent it to Josh Sharp, and I said, they go into this hole.
01:23:35
Speaker
i will I will take a screenshot and I will show you. yeah he's the defense yes Well, Josh, we all know, is the definitive answer anything. Oh my gosh, if Josh could install it, like I should be able to install it. Josh had somebody come to his house both times to install his Mac. So he liked. Okay, wait wait, wait, wait, wait. See what I mean, Josh? Hater.
01:23:55
Speaker
Hater right there. What am I hating? If Josh is the definitive, Josh, every time when I worked with Josh on this, if I asked him anything mechanical, he's like, I'm not a programmer. I'm not mechanical. And he would just forward it to the next. And that's fine. I i love people that know their abilities. Okay. He's just like, children, children, I am sending this to you.
01:24:14
Speaker
Because this shows you exactly what I'm talking about. So, okay, zoom in on that thing that I have. right, hang on. I got a message from Bouncy Booty Yodi Cheeks. Let me look this real quick. I think this is a great conversation. just don't know if it's great. Did you just say Booty Yoda? It's fine. The people listening, it's fine. They know what we're talking about. We're talking about It looks like a really crappy solder job.
01:24:38
Speaker
Oh my gosh, you guys suck. Okay. But then i will send this because if you look at it, that is, okay, those holes right there, the second picture, that's where the screws go in. It is not to the post, the setback that is underneath the switch.
01:24:54
Speaker
So make sure for the podcast edit here, we're throwing up this picture. Yeah, that's why I'm putting it right now. Okay, but legit, the the ah the anchor screws do not go into those setbacks. they don't if If you're watching this up, if you've gotten an hour and a half into this episode and you see this picture, please tell us what you think of Scott's solder job. Oh my gosh. You guys suck so much. I was five hours into it and I was, yeah, no. Okay. I commend you with trying. That's, I mean, I think that's commendable. Yeah. I would have just walked away and just said, Monica, go for it. I'm done. Well, i tried, but Monica says, no, I'm not going to, I'm not going to. Okay. i didn't really text Monica, but she would say, I live in St. Louis. I'm not coming out there. She did make fun of my solder job once, and she does not let me solder anything. and That was your last solder job. You know, Travis, one time other men would be concerned if if their wife was getting texts from other men. but you just I didn't text her. I'm kidding. Short hair, don't care. I have so many pictures of Monica painting, ah it's shoveling snow. No, when those pictures happen is it's like, hey Travis, what are you doing? He's like, oh, we're redoing my office. He would say that we are redoing my office. We we are. Because I'm the same room. We are redoing my office. it together We say, oh, so Monica's painting your office. And then he sends us a picture of his hands with a glass of soap and Monica painting in the background. She told me 10 years ago, all I have to do is be in the same room and that's like us doing something them together because she knows strategic incompetence. She doesn't let me touch you. The best part about this... Sorry for that, but still, yeah. The best part about this, she puts you in timeout.
01:26:36
Speaker
She legit puts you in timeout. It's not like you're amazing. no. I've literally seen a picture of Monica with a wheelbarrow full of bricks. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. To my credit, I who was standing when I took that picture, okay? Okay, you weren't sitting with taking a picture of her. No, I sat back down after I took the picture, though.
01:27:00
Speaker
And that's how Travis gave birth to his five kids. Sitting down. Hey, we're not. No, we can't pick on Travis. Okay, Travis. Whatever, Joel. Whatever. Stop. We build each other here. No, you don't get to do that. Hey, Travis, I think it's your time to tell us what you don't like about 2025. And what you do like. You're high and low. Yes.
01:27:21
Speaker
What I don't like about it? yeah I mean, I love it. Oh, the high and low pinball. Oh, gosh. Okay, low and pinball. I'll start there. ah Not enough whiskey.
01:27:35
Speaker
what means Yeah, that's a good one. um You know, it's tough. It's like I got to figure out. So I know what my true low is, but I can't say it publicly because it's like insider inside base You want to say I'll just bleep it out? ah We should do that. I really do. i really do.
01:27:53
Speaker
Beep. I don't know. Like I kind of agree with some of the things you guys have said, like in terms of like, I don't know, like I wish code would be a little bit further along at times and make it easier to tell people, hey, this game's really good instead of saying to people, hey, this game should be really good in the future. Yeah, that's kind of like, it's kind of a weird thing to say to somebody that's trying to convince them to part with $7,000 to $13,000, but that's an near here nor there. um You're just saying it's hard because like all Walking Dead, you can't do anything with yet because it still says licensure pending approval. yeah, yeah. I'm going, okay.
01:28:31
Speaker
Stern Pinball's listening. I'm going to say no comment. that's So next one. ah So Cuphead. Yeah. Cuphead not coming out. that I am bummed about that. I'm not a huge Cuphead fan, but I am bummed for Ryan.
01:28:46
Speaker
I don't really know him personally. I've talked to him a couple of times at tournaments, but... you know, from a creative aspect, that's got to incredibly suck to put in that much work on something and not really get to see it go out publicly, not come to fruition that way. So I hope at some point it does come out or at the very least he gets a shot to do something somewhere to get that creative outlet to come out. Um, so, I mean, that, that for me would probably be the biggest down. I would say the biggest up is just, I don't know, like,
01:29:18
Speaker
Pinball in general, like I'll freely admit just like when I first got into pinball about, it's been nearly a decade now. I mean, when I started going down the rabbit hole, I would see, you know, the message boards and see, you know, the criticisms and all that. And yes, like some of it's warranted, a lot of it's not. And I've fallen into that trap also of like critiquing things. I mean, I mean, just as of this episode and I like making fun of stuff, but yeah.
01:29:44
Speaker
you know, more than anything, I definitely have. a Yeah. he's Especially Joel. Yeah. But no, I actually love Joel. He's, he's fine. He's fine. But you can bleep that part out of the podcast. I'll take it. You called me what? No. Yeah, exactly.
01:29:56
Speaker
But you know, I do have like a large amount of respect for people in the pinball industry, whether it's creatives, designers, artists, software people, i mean, ah animation, LCD, even though you guys know how i feel about the LCD, like just anybody in general that's working in the pinball industry, it's not the easiest industry to be in, but it's highly rewarding.
01:30:20
Speaker
And it's just, I don't know, like this feels like, to me, it feels like a golden era of pinball just because we have so many options out there. There's so many different locations. There's so much content out there. And you can choose to listen to what you want to listen to, whether it's you know, very critical content, whether it's just idiots like Joel, Tom, and I talking, whether it's actual informational stuff, like probably the loser kids give you guys, but you know, you guys can listen to whatever you want. So I just, I don't know. I think that this is a great time to be a pinball fan in general. So I'm excited to see just what happens moving on. Cause in my head, in my head can at least, and I don't know how you guys feel about this. I think that,
01:31:05
Speaker
that designers and software people and the creatives behind these projects are getting better and better each time. They learn a little bit more, like just 1% each time. They learn what works, what doesn't work, and they take that to their next project. And I think seeing Harry Potter, for instance, I think that's a prime example of that.
01:31:25
Speaker
mean, I don't think anybody was looking at Godfather and thinking that Eric has just, you know, created his masterpiece. But I think once you see Harry Potter, that turned a lot of eyes, right? I mean, it's a great looking game.
Golden Era for Pinball Creativity
01:31:38
Speaker
So I think just the fact that we have all kinds of awesome designs and awesome creatives coming from multiple manufacturers, I think that's excellent. I'm trying to think of other positives. Like I'm just really happy for everybody. I'm happy for a barrels of fun.
01:31:55
Speaker
Like a ton. Like if you haven't met David Van S before, that is a legit sweetheart of a human being. He is so passionate about his company, about his employees, about pinball in general, about pushing it out further and in doing the cinematic version of pinball that he wants to do. So I'm extremely ecstatic to see that they had a win.
01:32:15
Speaker
I'm happy for Jerry. P3, right? Came out Portal. That's a fun game. And I mean, we've... Tom and I remember what happened when we were a little bit critical of P3 a couple of years ago. we ah We angered one or two or a couple hundred of multi-morphic fans. But...
01:32:33
Speaker
Portal, that was a fun game. I enjoyed that. I played that tons of times at TPF, played it again at Expo. And i mean, even Spooky, right? Spooky has come a long ways since Halloween.
01:32:44
Speaker
i I remember on our podcast, Tom and I and Tom finally just yelled at Joel, we're not going to talk about Halloween anymore. you know yeah And now all of sudden, they're selling out everything. So, I mean, in general, I think pinball is at a great spot.
01:32:59
Speaker
And so I'm just, I'm excited for 2026 to see what happens. And i mean, I'm excited too. Like the big rumor I told you guys about before we went live, I'm excited to see the possibility of a Keith Elwin going to home pin also. That'll be pretty sweet. That's the big rumor, huh? He's going to do so much with blues brothers. Let me tell you. That's a big rumor. Yeah.
01:33:21
Speaker
Go to crush it. Oh, he did tell me something for, uh, you, Josh and Scott for loser kid. Yeah. He wanted to know, and I quote, or maybe he it wasn't a question, maybe was a comment.
01:33:33
Speaker
Tell them they suck at sending shoes. It's true. It is 100% true. We have sent him three He sucks at receiving them. Josh, send them to Stern Pinball.
01:33:46
Speaker
Send them to George Gomez and have George Hand deliver those things to him. i tried Already tried, man. Oh, there's a story behind that. Just send me his shoes. I'll wear them. I wear whatever. Look at me. I'm an idiot. Carl Elwin is one of the best designers, Rachel. I may have a backdoor option. Okay, Josh. We'll talk about it. This is a family friendly podcast. Oh my gosh. This is not Elvira. Okay. I may have secret option. Tell me more about this backdoor option. Oh my gosh. Okay.
01:34:19
Speaker
You guys, no, no. I do have an option to send it there. Okay. All right. I'll, I'll, I'll just go stop. Stop. Do we know what it is? Huh? I have a contact that I He messages me and then I have to message Neil. No, it's not that. No, no. I, i we get him miss shoes I may have a, I guarantee we will be able to get him there. Okay. yeah Yeah. I will tell him right now. going to text him right now. Yep.
01:34:47
Speaker
Yep. Okay, it says, tell okay, reply, Scott has a backdoor option. it Send. I was just going to have them sent to me, and the next time we're up in Chicago, i was just going to drop them off. Yeah.
01:35:02
Speaker
That's really all was going to do. you can be Okay, that sounds more like a front door option, though. You're a sidekick option. Okay, all right. Okay. Okay, either way. That's what I'm happy with with pinball. Okay.
01:35:15
Speaker
So I think we got, we got through that. That was a good segment there. We got to talk about CCR a little bit. Yeah. Talked about shoes. I think Joel talked at some point. I started it. I started with the, you know, I thought Joel was just taking over the podcast. I don't know. You know, I, I just, I was sitting in the back of the bus with Travis and he's over there picking his nose and I just don't know what to And so I just, I stood up and I don't know. Joel, are you that way on family vacations? Like when you go, do you like typically driving? Yeah. Do you take like, do you take complete control?
01:35:50
Speaker
Over it. This is what we're doing. no I usually tell you, unless we're at my wife's family, and then I'm like, you guys, it's your monkeys, your circus. So I'm curious, out the five of us, out the five of us, does anybody here plan the vacations or the family time, like when you're out, like you kind of like, we have to be here at this time, we have to do this at this point?
01:36:09
Speaker
No, my my wife's actually really good at like... ah planning for like Europe trips. My wife is actually really good at that. And she, she gets actually quite nervous when we have other people with us, like my siblings. But when it's just us, it's like, I'm like, fine, like whatever you want to do. I'm totally fine. I'm on board because I, I don't, that's not my skillset, but she's really good at that.
01:36:32
Speaker
So that's why can't be life that's why cruises are a man's trip. You know what I'm saying? Like, no no, she likes the cruise too. She likes the cruise too. Kids just go do what you want. But I, the yeah, yeah. I will point out that this is something that I've always remembered.
01:36:48
Speaker
A wise man once told his wife nothing because he's a wise man. and i was always taught that a wise man learns from other people's mistakes.
01:37:01
Speaker
Oh, wow.
01:37:05
Speaker
These are all good. i just talked to Tom. Whatever he says. Tom will let you know. I don't talk. It works for me. Can we talk about the funny thing? Can we reveal the funny thing? Because Tom was quiet for like two weeks in our chat. Yeah. Let let me tell you what, gay legit, what happened is I saw a message, Tom has left the chat and I was and i was like, what? And Travis like, ah he'll be back, or Joel or Travis, I can't remember. He'll be back.
01:37:35
Speaker
And then like, I literally didn't hear anything for, i don't know, like two weeks or a month. And I'm just like, okay, like we're not super chat. I know sometimes i can't respond because I'm working. Tom's like has his hands in people's mouths. just like me. Like I can't respond all the time. And I just thought he was like, okay, this hat, this topic's getting too hot. It was like a month. Yeah.
01:37:56
Speaker
no this No, this is funny. Like Tom texts me one day and he's he's just like, we're just talking. He's like, Now, why don't we ever chat anymore in our group chat? And I'm like, what are you talking about? We talk all the time. I was like, Joel even added you. yeah And then he's like, what are you talking about? I don't even see it. I'm like, what? was like an hour after he left the chat, he messaged me and said, I think I accidentally left the chat. Can you add me again? And I did.
01:38:22
Speaker
I don't know. You gave no context to that. I thought he was like, I'm taking a break. Otherwise, I would have reached out. Well, here's what happened. Tom sent me a screenshot of his actual chats and sure as shiitake mushrooms, we were nowhere at the top of that.
01:38:37
Speaker
Like we were just nowhere and Tom's like, I don't know what's going on. and I'm like, it was like, it was like being trapped in the inside whatever. Upside down. Upside down. And like stranger things.
01:38:49
Speaker
well well i I just realized there is there is another top moment for me for 2025. You ready for this? Yeah. yeah what is When someone told me that they needed to get an ass flames tattoo after going to our expo.
01:39:06
Speaker
Going to our expo panel. It's been a friendly show, Josh. yeah You know? i That was fun. I still can't believe you guys revealed it. Tom, did I ever tell you that? They revealed Joel's name.
01:39:18
Speaker
Like at the seminar at Expo. Which was he was the second most viewed video for Expo who wasn't behind George Gomez talking about like technology. It was insane. Yeah.
01:39:30
Speaker
That was a fun time. I was just sitting there in the audience. And I, so I had never told my wife like what the names are in this chat. At all? Yeah. And she just, as soon as Joel says that, I can feel her looking at me.
01:39:45
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, God, we effed up. I'm like, Joel, why did you say anything? I didn't say. It was 100% me. Oh, i just oh okay. there There we go. So i just I just hear her say, ass flames, huh?
01:40:01
Speaker
Yep. my yeah Yeah, I guess so. I mean, go ahead I didn't come up with a name. Oh, my goodness. I'm just not going to fight it. ah Josh, i do feel like I i might have. ah I did some prompting here. So is there anything was there anything particular that you wanted us to cover or say before?
01:40:20
Speaker
Because we are we're like an hour past Tom's bedtime at this point. let's rapid So you guys heard our top five of 25. Rapid fire, like one minute or the less. Let's start with Tom.
01:40:31
Speaker
I already did this at the beginning. know, but it became so jumbled and whatnot. Oh my God. Let's do just one minute. He wants the clip. He wants the TikTok clip for because that. was a problem joe involveds like what the you own I'm saying Winchester's off the table because it's not even really out.
01:40:51
Speaker
Okay. So I'm not going to include that. So going to go Harry Potter number one. Evil Dead number two.
01:41:03
Speaker
King Kong number three. Give me some other games. Dune. Portal. Dune number four. Predator. Star Wars. D&D.
01:41:17
Speaker
Anything else? Chicago CCR Remake. cc iland Yeah, Yeah, Merlin's Arcade. Remakes don't count. Sorry. unless ah Unless it's like really...
01:41:31
Speaker
i don't know. Maybe some like Metallica where it's like somewhat different. Alice in Wonderland? No. That was last year. There's four. Is it? No. You still haven't made it? I would say port my portals Portal would be the fifth for me Yeah. Okay.
01:41:44
Speaker
Portal definitely cracks. Evil Dead. Did you say that? That was like a minute, minute. That was number two, Joel. Okay. i'm just i was I'm over here trying to think of my own, but... I can't believe you want Joel to be able to say something in under a minute. I want to see if this can happen. All right. Go for it, Joel. Go. One minute. you know Now. It's just so many hits, so many attacks, little jabs, Travis. You got 55 seconds left.
01:42:09
Speaker
um My number one Dune. Dune would be the game that I would own tomorrow. um Number two would be King Kong. King Kong would be my... Yep, if number two. That's especially if Winchester is not even an option. Number three would be ah Evil Dead.
01:42:24
Speaker
Evil Dead for sure. And then after that, honestly, i would like i want to play Portal. Portal would probably be the next game I'd want to play. And then I would say Star Wars, then D&D.
01:42:38
Speaker
would be my top six. Did I forget a game? what did you Did you include Winchester? we' We're saying Winchester doesn't doesn't doesn't count, right? If Winchester counts, it would be Winchester's three. You've literally played it at your house. How does it not count? A minute ago, somebody, Tom said, we're throwing Winchester out. No, no, I was doing it personally because I've played it two times.
01:43:04
Speaker
I can't go to a location and play it. If we're not throwing it out, then I would do Dune number one, Winchester number two, Kong number three. Harry Potter? Where's Harry poter Potter number four? Okay.
01:43:14
Speaker
Evil Dead number five. That would be order. Portal six? Portal six. Portal six. Yeah. I would do that. Because, yeah, on and honestly, of all those games, i would yeah I would own Dune, I would own Winchester, and I would own King Kong.
01:43:31
Speaker
That's fair. Okay, Travis, you're up, man. Man, this one's going to be tough. Okay. I might mess this up. This is off the cuff. I'll start by going backwards. So we'll say number five, I'd probably say portal.
01:43:51
Speaker
Number three will blow your mind. oh Yeah, right. Number four, I would probably say,
01:44:01
Speaker
this is a tough one.
01:44:06
Speaker
I guess I'll say King Kong at number four. Wow. Number four is blowing my mind. Can you believe this? Yes, can. That's why rated it.
01:44:17
Speaker
Number three. What? Shoot. don't know. This one's tough. i'm messaging Keith. I just. It's because Keith doesn't make good tournament games. Number three, I'd probably say Dune.
01:44:31
Speaker
dune And number three, number two.
01:44:39
Speaker
Which ones do I have left? Winchester. poter winchester Yeah. Oh, evil yeah. but That's the one I missed. That's the one I missed. Oops. Okay. Yeah. I already messed up my ah i thing.
01:44:50
Speaker
Oh, well. Okay. So I'll say Harry Potter number two. Um, I wanted to fit in Winchester, but I miscounted. So my apologies, that would have been, that would have been number three, number four for me, just cause I want to see the code fleshed out more. And then number one is Jaws And if you would like a Jaws 50th. Jaws 50th is the premium anniversary edition. That's not a remake. It's a good option.
01:45:16
Speaker
It's great option. Wasn't Jaws released in 2024? Not Jaws 50th. The 50th anniversary came in 2025. Okay, Jaws. sorry.
01:45:23
Speaker
jaw fifth yeah the fiftieth anniversary came out in twenty twenty feet jaws a
01:45:32
Speaker
Write it down, Josh. writing it down now. It has brass wire form. Well, that's not fair. That would be in top five. It's pretty easy. How is that not fair? It says I think i can do it. It's fine. It's fine.
01:45:46
Speaker
Just add a six and seven now. I'm saying Josh would be in my top five. i Yeah, I would have put Winchester in my top five too, but I miscount it. All right. I'd like to change my list. ah Rush is number one. Did you put an app in? He just wants to keep buying it. yeah He just wants to keep buying it. It is in the vault. I heard ah it is heard today.
01:46:12
Speaker
with that that angry this With the wonderful Jack Danger video that just released today? That is correct. okay it's yeah i would i would do Dune, then Winchester, then Jaws, then King Kong.
01:46:25
Speaker
i would put Jaws in my third. See, I put Jaws ahead of King Kong. That's what I just said. That's why Jaws is my third. Oh, I thought you were going another way. Never mind. Okay. Harry Potter would be my fifth. Evil Dead would be my sixth. Okay.
01:46:37
Speaker
How many Winchesters are out in the world right now? Like five? i don't think there's any official. They're all still like the prototype games. Yeah.
01:46:48
Speaker
Okay. So Winchester is an honorable mention then. Is that where we're going with? mean, if they could stop right now, and it's an amazing game. I put Winchester as three. just because so my If I remember correctly, my top was Harry Potter, second was Doom, third was Winchester, four was Kong, and fifth was Portal, or maybe I could have had Portal above Kong.
01:47:10
Speaker
I've changed my mind. Number one, Pokemon. Oh, wow. how about lord the rings allegedly coming out tom allegedly pokemon has announced it like never know or how do you never know no yeah yeah how do you guys know it's not just transformers yeah could be a misdirect guys you're doing your 2026 list already here's the thing though so like there's all this hype about fallout right next year and they're like oh ellen's gonna kill it on it's not going to ellen if it's fallout It's an RPG based game. It's going to Eddie and Dwight. Like, I don't know what to to tell you. Yeah. So.
01:47:46
Speaker
Agreed. Ta-da. well number three is my as fallout okay you're just listing games you're just listing rumored games what your under what do about gremlins let's talk about that one gremlins is number one kremlins since they're remaking all of richie's games if we're just doing themes yeah yeah we're just naming off themes that we want Gremlins gremlins was number one. JJP's Ghostbusters. that's Okay, you're killing my joke.
01:48:17
Speaker
Did they get Phoebe Kitt? Hang on, Scott has a joke. I was like, they're remaking all of Steve Ritchie's games, and so they already did Star Wars. Now I'm waiting for a Led Zeppelin that I like. Oh, gosh. Oh, hold on. Honestly. Wow. I wouldn't put it past. It may happen. oh Never know. oh that was in You never know. That'd be spicy, wouldn't it? Yeah. I will say, too. That's your way to heaven, isn't it? Yeah. I will say, too. Evil Dead's also a fun game. Like, I will. It really I'm not a huge fan of, like, the license, but the immersion and what what Spooky did. It's fun game. Mm-hmm.
01:48:55
Speaker
And actually the original Led Zeppelin, is it's okay. it's i still like the music. I got it over here. Yeah. So um it's almost 1 a.m. m Yeah. My time. okay Where else do you have to go, Joel? It's only 11.30 here.
01:49:09
Speaker
to bed yeah they that this is a loser kid podcast you can dry now lose other they they wrap up on one hour like so consistently this is a double episode now easy yeah that's i episode to do half and tripled drain in the half yeah just split it into three episodes i have to pick up my buddy at 6 a.m so yeah we we definitely need to get to bed too so Oh my gosh. You guys are all old pansies. What I'm really curious is... I have people's lives in my hands, so maybe you should have some respect for those people.
01:49:41
Speaker
Okay, you three are old pansies except for Scott. So obviously we need to plug it up. But then what I love is we end our episodes where Tom gets the last words. Yeah. And you and your episodes. I think joels last words i think Joel should get the last words.
01:49:55
Speaker
I was, I want to see you guys do it out. Wow. No, he'll just end with Joel saying, I don't know. He'll just drown out. Just kind of fade out.
01:50:07
Speaker
yeah don't and I don't know. 15 minute monologue later. I don't know. you know Oh my goodness. This is supposed to be a safe place. Yeah. Oh, don't worry. we're We're going to hear about it. just um if' How about this? how about this? don't know what we go through, Joel. You guys pick on Joel way too much. Oh, my God. He's a sensitive little flower. yeah I will put out a bounty right now. You ready for this? Okay, go ahead. If someone actually gets a Joel tattoo, I will give you a pair of Loser Kid sneakers.
01:50:41
Speaker
Oh, wow. The Joel tattoo? um Okay, what is this tattoo going to look like? I'm curious now. It's entirely up to you. I'm going to Vegas in less than 48 hours. It's got to be the younger Joel. It's got to be the vampire Joel. The vampire Joel. What would you guys do if I came back with a vampire Joel tat tat it somewhere on my arm? I am getting your own sneakers, man. I mean, I would laugh. I will even sign them personally, man. Hmm.
01:51:12
Speaker
Okay, and this is fun. Joel and Jared. Yeah, you got to get Jared on the other arm. Yeah, that's true. He is my favorite Engelberth, so I should do that. On the other cheek, yeah. Oh, my goodness.
01:51:27
Speaker
Let's do it. Let's plug it up. Let's plug this baby up. Alrighty. I forget you're on Eastern time. so I was like, he's on central. I can imagine you guys, I can imagine you guys emails. This is the worst episode.
01:51:42
Speaker
I can't believe you let those jack butts on. If Elwin's the voice of honesty, you know, apparently people listen to the first hour and then we ramble and they tune out. That's fine. I'm not going to lie. This whole year has been very, don't want say calculated, but I have done lot of work in putting like figuring out loser kid and building loser kid. It's nice to do an episode like this where it's just shooting the crap. Yeah. You've seen the amount we put in. So you're seeing, no, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we usually have a schedule that we go through. We have like five topics and we, we kind systematically transition between them. So this is, all right, turn on the mics. Let's go.
01:52:24
Speaker
At one point we had notes and there were bullet points and we've just given up on that. we just justt go. But but you know it's it's nice. no like I really ah really enjoy doing this because it's something different than what we typically do. And it's seriously – it's funny because someone reached out to me. I remember who it was. But they're like, I'm so tired of like the the Buddy Buddy podcast. I just want to hear about pinball. That's what I love about Loser Kid. You guys just talked – We're not buddies. We're not friends. we're not we're not Well, just screwed that up. I know. yeah well okay i got need think this life This is my Christmas present to myself. I like how you're like, we're not going to talk pinball. We're going to get the ultimate non-pinball pinball podcast on here.
01:53:08
Speaker
Will these guys shut up? Nope. We don't at all. I'm sorry. We're like a stupid apartment. Travis, do your plugs. Let's hear I don't want to.
01:53:20
Speaker
I'm tired. Sick. Please. Pinball Company and Triple Drain Pinball Podcast. There you go Travis. Good luck in Vegas. Triple Drain Pinball Podcast Company with Joel and Tom. What about Marv Loco, though? Do you ever throw back to that? Nope. No, no, no. If you want to see baby Travis, you want to incorporate. Yeah.
01:53:41
Speaker
I would, I haven't even put out a video on YouTube like in over a month. I've been so busy. Uh, well, I might have. how to actor ha short multiple table Okay. I take that back. i put out one short after thirty yeah been busy okay i do have say i do your plug i do i do refer your video we do we do have people ask what's the best resource for for competition travis you do fantastic jobs on those videos and like they thank you i really feel like they should be um yeah yeah and jolt is the best uh tutorials with the glass off
01:54:13
Speaker
ye and i'm And I'm glad I traveled seven hours one way for you guys not to mention my tournament stuff. but ready It's time to plug. We moved off Travis.
01:54:27
Speaker
tom and i wonder ivis to Tom, do you want to plug? No, no, no. Plug about a seven-hour trip. yeah Fox City Spinball. If you love 12 hours of tournament play, turn into Fox cities, pinball.
01:54:40
Speaker
We will go all night long. And then some, there you go. Seriously. goes you You do fantastic tournament streams. Thank you. Fantastic. And some of the memeable pinball memes out there.
01:54:54
Speaker
Oh, yeah. You've been killing it on the clips. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Oh. And yeah, I'm Joel. I do the Flippin' Out Pinball Podcast or the Flippin' Out YouTube show every every Wednesday night with my brother. Check us out 10 to midnight Eastern to Standard Time. You can check out tutorials on the YouTube channel as well. We enjoy doing that. In terms of Triple Drain, check out Silver Ball Swag. I know Loser Kid is on there as well. Fox City's Pinball is on there as well.
01:55:19
Speaker
Check that out. Huge shout out to our Patreon members. We don't know why you support us, but you do, and it's awesome. So thank you so much for the kind, um I don't know, your generosity there. And if anybody's still listening at this point, thank you for still listening, because this was a long one.
01:55:36
Speaker
um Josh and Scott, obviously, thank you for having us on. Always, always. And you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. Like Joel alluded to, we also have a Patreon, and we we very much appreciate your support. If you want to get ahold of us, all the socials at loser kid pinball, I've made it very, very simple, or you can even hit our link tree. If you forget all that, it's just link tr.ee slash loser kid pinball, something like that. It will take you to everything. Silver ball swag to buy more merch and, and our Patreon and, and all of our socials. So, uh, Joel, would you like to give us the last words for tonight?
01:56:15
Speaker
Um, uh, um i I love you guys. I love you too. nope