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Producing Sneaker Laws with Kenneth Anand
0 Playsin 16 hours
This week Kenneth Anand is on the podcast, we are talking about his love for kicks. Growing up in New Jersey, working on music and pursing a degree in law. He share some crazy stories like selling kicks straight off his feet. Working with Kanye West on the Yeezy brand, what it was like to start writing Sneaker Law. How he's able to combine his passion and his career into one. Plus a ton more!
Follow Kenneth:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/kennethtaughtme
Sneaker Law IG: https://www.instagram.com/sneakerlaw/
Cop Sneaker Law V2: https://sneakerlaw.com/
Podcast Linktree: https://linktr.ee/myfirstkicks
Sign up for the Patreon: https://patreon.com/MyFirstKicks
Music by The DoppleGangaz: https://thedoppelgangaz.bandcamp.com/
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Chapters: 00:00 Puerto Rican Day Parade 1998: White and Blue 95s Story
03:40 ComplexCon Encounters: Marvel Fleece and Podcast Invitation ️
07:16 Crispy White Fives: Nervousness and Black Cement Four Comparison
11:17 Luxury Sneakers vs Athletic Shoes: Personal Style Preferences
14:46 Short Bus to Port Authority: Fat Beats & Lyricist Lounge Memories
18:14 Versus Battles: Dips Set vs. The Locks and Venue Comeback Wish
22:54 Similar Sneaker Story: Red Fours, Paxon Encounter, and a Bold Offer
26:25 Kai's Asics Unboxing: Brand Loyalty and Authenticity on Social Media
29:58 Law and Music Business: Brand Deals and Celebrity Ventures
34:06 Predatory Behavior: Rungs on Ladder vs Service to Others
37:52 Surrounding Yourself with Things You Love: Constant Magnet
41:39 Adidas Yeezy Team: Hard Work, Amazing Product Today
45:21 Excitement and Passion: Trying New Things and Learning from Failure
48:59 Vision and Authenticity: Staying True to Yourself and Making Good Art
52:57 Staying Young Through Culture: New Trends & Staying Ahead
56:20 Anti-Biting Culture: Respect for Pioneers & Paving the Way
01:00:21 Protecting Special Creations: Trademarking and Nike's Strategy
01:04:17 Connect with Kenneth: Sneaker Law, IG, LinkedIn, and Book
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Transcript
A Suspicious Encounter and Introduction to Kenneth
00:00:00
Speaker
I was at the Puerto Rican Day Parade in 1998, and I'm wearing a pair of white and blue ninety five s the ones that came out after the orange and the vault joints.
00:00:11
Speaker
Yeah. And I'm walking on Broadway in the McDonald's right on eighth Street, you know, by the Foot Locker. Yeah, yeah. so umm So I'm walking like we had just legendary McDonald's. Yeah, legendary. So we had just left the Puerto Rican Day Parade. I need to use the bathroom. I go into McDonald's and these two Japanese dudes follow me downstairs into the bathroom. It's a downstairs bathroom. Right. So these two Japanese dudes follow me downstairs and they don't come in.
00:00:36
Speaker
So I go in the bathroom and then I come out and they're still there and they're looking at me when I come out and I'm like, yo, this is sus. And I walk up the stairs and they walk up after me and I walk out on the street and I'm walking downtown towards Houston and they're like 10 paces behind me. And finally I turn around, like, what?
00:01:00
Speaker
What's good, everyone? Welcome back to My First Kicks. This is episode 231, and this week, I bring to you a special guest that I've been trying to get for years now. Nah, years, bro. Come on. Years. Welcome to the podcast, Kenneth and I. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Good to be here. I said that right, right? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, perfect. All right, cool.
00:01:19
Speaker
I have a thing like I like saying names right correctly off the jump. i appreciate that. So i I was like practicing in my head as I read it. I'm saying it right. I'm saying it right. No, you got it. You got it. It's all love. Yo, glad to be here. Yo, huge honor having you on here, man. You know, actually, let's just let's just go with your introduction. Like ah for people who are not you know familiar with you. how about you introduce yourself?
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So um I'm a lawyer by trade, although i have a very and you know unconventional pathway to becoming a lawyer in my career today.
Kenneth's Journey from Sneakerhead to Lawyer
00:01:52
Speaker
um i was a sneakerhead first. we'll get We'll get into that, and obviously.
00:01:56
Speaker
um And you know i I was a music producer before I went to law school and I wanted to, yeah, actually, yeah, we can chop it up about that. i wanted to I wanted to get into the the hip hop game and as a producer, and obviously that was not very successful.
00:02:12
Speaker
um Ended up going to law school because I got jerked on one of my production deals. And as I worked my way through law school, I got a very conventional legal job and started practicing as a litigator, as um you know a counselor for companies in a very traditional sense.
00:02:29
Speaker
And then one day I woke up and I was like, i don't want to do this shit anymore. And I made a very hard pivot, which we can talk about in a minute. But, um you know, that was basically more aligning with my passions, which were sneakers, hip hop, street wear.
00:02:44
Speaker
um And, you know, now I've created this very unique niche for myself as a lawyer and as a as a business person, as an author, as a professor. yeah And these are all things that i do in the realm of sneakers.
Sneaker Community and Kenneth's Book, Sneaker Law
00:02:59
Speaker
Man, you've been killing it because, you know, ah ever since like I got to start making this podcast, you know, I remember when Sneaker Law One came out. Yeah. OG. OG in the Chicago colorway, the bread colorway. Yeah. And so everybody around the sneak community was like, yo, you ever seen this book? You ever seen this book?
00:03:18
Speaker
And that's how i ended up finding you. And then i was just and then I added you on LinkedIn because I thought that was the way to go. You're a lawyer. And I was like, all right. Yeah, bro. Let me pull up on the LinkedIn. Yeah, business side. Yeah. i was like, let me see if maybe the track record will be a little... you know And so I i remember just hitting you up and I didn't get a response then. But this this this is what I'm talking about.
00:03:41
Speaker
Yeah. we we I ran into you a couple of times at Complex Cons. Yeah, definitely. You were in some Marvel fleece or something. Yes, that was the last one for sure. That Marvel fleece did know her. love it. can pick you out from across the room, bro. Like, there's high. You got that Venom shit on. Yeah, I did.
00:03:56
Speaker
I sold so many Venom fleeces that day, man. Because everybody's like, yo, they got a booth here. And I like, nah, you got to go online. yeah um But, you know, remember the last, that one, that specific complex, that's, I felt like, I was like, all now know I definitely, now I know you fuck with me now.
00:04:11
Speaker
Because you were like, yeah, a bunch of people always ask me to do their podcast, but I didn't know you like, you did, this is your shit. I was just like, yeah, this me. No, and I've, you know, a lot of people do ask me and I have to be judicious with my time because if you water down your message, it's like, whatever, but like I have been watching you for a minute and you do your thing and like, um it's not really about the guests for me, it's about your approach and your subject matter and also like your energy, you know, which I really enjoy and i was like, man, if I could come on here and crack some jokes, like, then it's all love. Nah, yeah. I mean, look, i try to try to make this more about the person in front of me also, you know? Because it's just like, when it comes to s sneakers, and I'm pretty sure we definitely gonna get into this, you know, we're at this point now, especially like after 2020, where and felt less about the people collecting the sneakers and more about the brands pushing what we what the story should
Sneakers, Brand Stories, and Childhood Memories
00:05:02
Speaker
be. Yeah, facts. And so I was very big on like, let me do that. Yeah, let's get it back to the essence. Yeah, exactly. What really got us into this, you know? yeah so Yes, yes. People that rock their kicks. Yeah.
00:05:13
Speaker
you know, are not afraid to like destroy the residual value. Exactly. I mean, we can definitely get into that. But we are here to answer the question that I ask everybody each week. And that question is, what's your first kicks? What's that first person thing is you absolutely needed to have?
00:05:29
Speaker
Oh, man. Well, there were many that I absolutely needed to have, but the first ones I actually got to have, because we're talking way back in the day when my parents, like, they didn't understand why Jordan 3s and 4s were so expensive and what the hype was.
00:05:43
Speaker
um They finally broke down and bought me the Jordan 5s in the grape, ice, and teal colorway. Crazy. um So I'm dating myself, but this was 1990, like...
00:05:55
Speaker
Yo, it was peak. It was peak era, and and it was a core childhood memory for me. um i remember they bought them for me when I was at summer camp. We were on a break, and they were in the Nike store up in um Freeport, Maine. So I was up there for camp, and we go into the store, and they're there just on the shelf. like yeah It was that easy. yeah And not only were they there, but like the whole jumpsuit was there. like and I wanted it all. yeah I wanted it all. But I had to settle for some teal champion shorts so and a purple champion shirt. yeah And I had the whole fit and I brought them to school. Every day I'd take a toothbrush to them. like you know They were just my babies.
00:06:33
Speaker
And I'd snapped a Polaroid of them and I still have that Polaroid. and don't have the kicks, but I still have the Polaroid. They recently just came out again, though. Yeah, I know. I didn't cop. I didn't cop. I should. I so i have the drop prior to that. i forget. That was maybe 2014. Not the black grapes, right?
00:06:52
Speaker
No, no, no. I had the black grapes, but the last white grapes. But yeah, just remember seeing them on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. And I would be tight because there was this one guy in my high school that he would have. I mean, had the ones. He had the twos, threes, the fours.
00:07:09
Speaker
And I was like, I gotta get in this, man. like I'm tired like tired of hating on bro, you know? and And so I finally got my fives, but they were so crispy white, like I was so nervous about them.
00:07:20
Speaker
I think if I had like a black cement four, have been a little bit more relaxed. There's something about, I've touched on this a lot, but like something about that white shoe when you were a kid and then like your parents being like, you only get one. then you're just looking at it like, I got to keep this as white as possible. Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's like, um i didn't I didn't come from a lot of money. So like, that was it, you know?
00:07:42
Speaker
And I know people today that are like, well, why don't you beat your shoes up? Like, why, you know, a good pair of news sneakers should be broken in. yeah No, like if i if I have a little bit of dirt on mine, I move on to the next pair. Damn, that's crazy. I mean, that's the Rocco. Nah, man. There's been way too, like, i've for some reason, this has been happening to me way too often.
00:08:01
Speaker
Way, way too often. Yeah. I'll be drinking one night, and I'll get beer all over these knees, man. Yo, there was one, literally the last time I went to go see Fantastic Four on Saturday.
00:08:14
Speaker
And I'm sitting in the 4D chairs, right? with a With a cup. Oh, the experience. Yeah, I'm just there with the, you know? And I and i had a a beer on me, right? Oh, man. And I'm thinking like, oh yeah, I'm good. Yo, this thing just like started flinging me around.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yo. That's too much. And I had my off-white dunks on. The three out of three out of fifty s Okay. And so I'm like, I'm getting beer all over. I'm like, damn it. Like I'm trying to like evade while the chair is like moving. Yeah, man. ah Yeah. How was the movie, though?
00:08:47
Speaker
The movie's fire. I love it. Top five. Top five Marvel movie. You know, I've been i been losing steam on Marvel movies. Yeah, that's what that's going to happen. Yeah. You know, I like the Thunderbolts, though. I thought Thunderbolts good. fun. was fun. don't know why I got such a harsh review, but we don't need to go into it. Welcome to my first movie review. talking about Marvel though, because of the gear. Yeah, exactly. So it's all it's very on brand. So like, what's your where'd you get your sense of style and like, where you where' you actually, where'd you grow up?
Kenneth's Roots in Hip-Hop and Music Production
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, I grew up in Montclair, New Jersey. Wow, okay.
00:09:17
Speaker
Yeah, just outside of the city. My parents met at NYU um and raised us in Montclair because the city was too expensive. And I mean, it was a fly town, you know, like Montclair was very unique because um it had Upper Montclair and then it had Montclair. And I was sort of in the middle and all of my boys were into hip hop and tribe and Dela and native tongues. and And then we, of course, we had Naughty by Nature, like right down the block. It was not uncommon to see Naughty by Nature or Queen Latifah pull up in the record store in our town. That's insane. Yeah.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah, and so like, you know, a lot of that style just came from watching early hip hop videos, you know? Like I couldn't i couldn't afford Bally jeans or like, you know, um Dapper Dan get ups and stuff like that. yeah um But, you know, we could we could throw on a Carhartt you know, we could wear a um a starter jacket. yeah I think I had a Detroit Pistons one.
00:10:14
Speaker
Hey, any of them, look, obviously we know the Charlotte Hornets did the numbers. Yes, they did. I was always a fan of the Raiders because it was just a simple black yeah black and silver. That was fire. yeah um And then I'm a Giants fan, so, yeah you know, sadly. Yeah, I got i got a Detroit Pistons one because it went with a lot of my stuff and that was what was available.
00:10:33
Speaker
um But then also like big was Columbia Jackets in our town. Columbia Jackets were fly. And yeah, man, you know, we we put together whatever we could. Nah, that's dope. Like what like hip hop is so the community aspect of it. Right. You know, I feel like it does blend into like sneakers and like how getting fly is like the I always tell people like yeah it's more it's more of a state of mind. Like it does.
00:10:59
Speaker
If you are able to match it, like yeah with the with the bank account, then it's next level. Yeah. But you do have to meet that halfway. I mean, real ones know, like it's not about the money. You can get fly on any budget, you know?
00:11:11
Speaker
Like, and it's it's all about how you piece it together and how you wear it, you know, your confidence and stuff like that. And to this day, like I'm not a luxury sneaker guy. Like I just don't. I really don't understand it. i i don't I don't participate in it it just because it doesn't connect with me on that level. And I represent some luxury brands and um I just like $1,500 for a pair of sneakers that don't fit well and are very uncomfortable and heavy. yeah It's just not my vibe. and I don't know I just connect with that feeling of having like an athletic shoe, performance shoe, yeah things like that. so
00:11:43
Speaker
Virgil Air Force ones though? Yeah. Yeah. um You know, ah i don't have any Virgil Air Force ones. I did get lot 41, I think. hu And I flipped them during the pandemic because they were they were going for a lot. And I have a lot of the Virgil Abloh shoes. but Oh, you mean the LV joints? Yeah, I'm talking about the LV joints. I have those. Okay. That's what I was saying. That's a $1,500 shoe right there. have those. Actually, yeah, it was $3,000 at retail. Oh, yeah. You're right. $3,000 retail. Yeah.
00:12:14
Speaker
and And it was a splurge, bro. It was a splurge. And explaining that to my wife was not easy. um But, you know, they're obviously worth more than that now. I got i wish I was a wolf fly on the wall in that conversation. I mean, my wife, my wife just she's just over it now. She's just like, whatever.
00:12:32
Speaker
You know, Kenneth's just doing his thing. Also, like, they're qualified business deductions for me because of what I do. So technically they weren't three grand, but, you know, IRS, if you're listening, you know. baby they're They're actually really heavy listeners of the podcast. There's many IRS auditors that are yeah in the now. live across one of the buildings, and like, for real, for real.
00:12:52
Speaker
And I'm like, imagine like somebody just there like, Hmm. Okay. Yeah. yeah What was the number was the number on this episode? Duly noted. Yeah. Yeah. um So jumping in here just to say I appreciate you for listening to this episode with Kenneth.
00:13:07
Speaker
And i just wanted to remind you all to like, subscribe. And if you want to get shouted out at the end of each and every episode, please sign up to the Patreon at patreon.com slash myfirstkicks.com.
00:13:20
Speaker
You know, I'm always going to hook it up with exclusive stuff. And wow, i fumbled on that. And, you know, trying to build that ecosystem out, as I keep saying each week. So hit that up, patreon.com slash myfirstkicks.
00:13:35
Speaker
Peace. Oh, well, no. Back to the episode. Yeah. um So, like, I mean, it's crazy to hear how far hip hop actually stretched into New Jersey. I mean, Tristate area. where I mean, you name people. all A lot of people. Because, like, when I think about my favorite group is Tribe. So, like, I'm thinking, like, how far, you know, Native Tongues actually stretched and, like, to go to New Jersey because you Naughty.
00:13:59
Speaker
I mean, Jersey's not that far, bro. I mean, no, what I'm just saying it. Cause it's like, this is, this is before we like, it was just like, no, I know you're right. You're right. You're, you know, this is the Boulevard of Linden. Yeah. But like, you know, I think it was early.
00:14:13
Speaker
Cause like, my bad before cut you off Yeah. But I remember search told the story yeah on like, he did like an MF Dune podcast. He was like, I used to bike from the middle of nowhere, Brooklyn, all the, or like, he was like Coney Island all the way to Long Island. I was like, what are you talking? That's not possible. Yeah. what There's no route. Yeah, there's no route.
00:14:32
Speaker
So that's what I'm saying. Like, you know, hip hop does stretch, but like that was, that didn't seem like an actual real thing for people to be like, yeah, me and Fife used to hang out all the time every week because he'd come with me to Montclair, New Jersey. Like that this right that sounds way too far. No, I mean, we we we were a short bus ride into Port Authority.
00:14:51
Speaker
i used to come in all the time. Sometimes I didn't tell my parents I would, you know, just hop on the bus and go in. I would go down to Fat Beats and I would hang out and like, you know, I remember old Lyricist Lounge events I went to, bro. Like um I saw J. Rue the Damager perform. wow You know, like just just core moments. um Group home, the rec room, like just all these different places we used to go.
00:15:14
Speaker
And I was such a fiend for it. It's funny, the the way it all came about was my brother one one day brought home the record for Aerosmith Walk This Way. yeah And you know, it had Run DMC on it.
00:15:26
Speaker
And like, we had to pick a side. Like it was like, you know, he's a Yankee fan, I'm a Met fan. He picked Aerosmith and I picked Run DMC. And that's just the way it stuck. And it it fit for both of us. Like he's still very much into rock and punk and you probably would vibe with him on that.
00:15:43
Speaker
I'm both, man. And I'm also Mets fan. So I'll be on your side. yeah so so But that was the way it was in my house. It was like, if my brother's doing it like I can't. You're doing the opposite. na So he's over there in Loafer's and you you with the Jordans. Nah, he was over there and like Doc Martens.
00:15:59
Speaker
Or Converse's. Yeah, yeah maybe. Big Converse guy. Yeah. i had I had Chuck Taylors before I got my J's because they were cheap. and Right, yeah. I remember you could roll up in the Pathmark and buy shell toes.
00:16:12
Speaker
And I never bought them because I was like, why would anybody buy kicks from Pathmark? Pathmark is crazy. They were like 20 bucks. And I remember they just had them in a bin. No boxes, just shell toes. It's crazy. It's crazy.
00:16:24
Speaker
It's crazy work. Lackawanna Plaza in Montclair, New Jersey. Shout out. Shout out Pathmark, which probably turned into like a condo or something. Yeah, I I haven't been back in a minute. um So like you're your journey from that, where like now I got to know, how'd you get into producing?
00:16:41
Speaker
Was producing first? Like, were you like, yo, I love hip hop. Hip hop is me. Yeah, um yeah. I mean, there was, so i was really into computers at the time and my uncle helped me build my first computer when I was really young.
00:16:54
Speaker
And then I started like researching computers and um there was like a program called Cool Edit. Like it was the early like Fruity Loops. Yeah, yeah. And Cool Edit, you could take waveforms and you could record them through your audio card.
00:17:08
Speaker
And you could splice them and lay them over shit. And I was and i was doing it. It was the early, like some people had two track machines, some people had SP12s. I had cool at it. It's like the nerdiest version of making beats. But me and my boys, we still do this all together and then eventually we would bounce stuff down to two track, four track.
00:17:26
Speaker
And, yeah, we were just making fire beats until I invested in my first sampling keyboard. And i just remember, like, studying that all the time. Yeah. And my, like, my archetype was DJ Premier.
00:17:39
Speaker
Yeah. Shout out Primo. Yeah. That was my, like, if I can make a beat like Premier, I was, I was good. That's crazy. I mean, he's a legend. Yeah. I met him. He's the last person I met before the pandemic.
00:17:49
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's crazy. And I literally joked with him. i was like, I was like, because I was outside of SiriusXM. He came out. like, yo, what's up? And then we talked. m And i was just like, oh, you know, I would dap you up. But, you know, they're talking about not spreading this thing that's going around.
00:18:07
Speaker
And he's just like, man, fuck that that. I don't believe none that shit. Next day, nobody's outside. That's it. It's over. That was the last person I met. Yeah. And then you see him on um the the, what was the versus? Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
Against the RZA. Uh-huh. That was so dope, bro. That was crazy, man. Versus was a time, man. A time. A time. I wish they could, because even though like the dip set versus the locks and how crazy that was overproduced.
00:18:36
Speaker
Insane. still incredible. But yeah, there has to be a way to bring that back and know in a venue. Yeah. I just remember like there was one group that was prepared and one that was not. Definitely not.
00:18:48
Speaker
Definitely not. We don't have to get into it anymore. You know, because I know some of those dudes. yeah oh i'm i'm I'm adjacent to them to one side already. Yeah. Yeah. Shout out. It's the real.
00:19:02
Speaker
oh So like, I mean, I'm going to ask because like, because you, every time I've spoken to somebody that's into, that starts music, they have to give up sneakers or like they're selling their sneakers to fuel music. yeah Were you able to do both?
00:19:15
Speaker
ah You know, i I was pretty broke. My my book's about to fall. I was pretty broke in college and so sneakers were not really my focus. um i was I was into buying records. like i was I was really supporting my record and my crates so that I could have samples and stuff like that.
00:19:37
Speaker
So my kick game in college wasn't as as good as it could be. um But I was like, I was getting my hands on some Helly Hanson jackets and like the gear was right.
00:19:48
Speaker
um And then, you know, every now and then I get like an Air Max 95, 96. and I got a crazy story, which we got We got touch on like um I was at the Puerto Rican Day Parade 1998 and I'm wearing a pair of white and blue ninety five s the ones that came out after the orange and the in the in the ah vault joints. Yeah.
00:20:10
Speaker
And I'm walking on Broadway in the McDonald's right on 8th Street, you know, by the Foot Locker. Yeah. yeah so umm So I'm walking, like we had just left. Legendary McDonald's. Yeah, legendary. So we had just left the Puerto Rican Day Parade. I needed to use the bathroom. I go into McDonald's and these two Japanese dudes follow me downstairs into the bathroom. It's a downstairs bathroom. yeah So these two Japanese dudes follow me downstairs and they don't come in.
00:20:35
Speaker
So I go in the bathroom and then I come out and they're still there and they're looking at me when I come out and I'm like, yo, this is sus. and And I walk up the stairs and they walk up after me and then I walk out on the street and I'm walking downtown towards Houston.
00:20:50
Speaker
And they're like 10 paces behind me. And finally I turn around, I'm like, what? I'm just like, well, if I have to fight, like um like we're doing this, you know? And they're like, where'd you get your sneakers?
00:21:01
Speaker
And I was like, excuse me? And this was before, bro. This was like, nobody was on that reselling shit. And they were like, your sneakers, your Air Maxes. And I was like, i I don't know, I got them and like a foot locker, bro. But like, they don't make these anymore. yeah And they were like, can we buy?
00:21:20
Speaker
And I was like, buy what? And they're like, those. And I said, what am I going to wear yeah if you buy my sneakers? yeah And they were like, I don't know. And I was like, here, come with me. And we walked into the foot locker. yeah I kid you not, they bought me the Air Max 98s. I put the new ones on my feet, which felt amazing because I was spending all day in those ninety five yeah My feet were cooked. yeah I had a fresh pair on.
00:21:43
Speaker
They took my 95s, put them in the box for the 98s and dipped happy as shit. what It was the most wild exchange ever. And I came home, cause I was staying with my parents in between breaks um from college.
00:21:58
Speaker
And I came home and explained it to my mom. She wouldn't believe me. She was like, you just wouldn't need any excuse to buy another pair of shoes. And was like, no, dead ass. Like, this happened. and And they were on it early. They were super on And that pair now, bro?
00:22:12
Speaker
like And I thought they were beat because, you know, I'm just OCD and like and I wore them at the Puerto Rican Day Parade. Probably, you know, scuffed them up or whatever. yeah But we didn't care back then. and they And they took them and they dipped and I didn't even know what was happening until like four or five years later. And I was like, these motherfuckers. Them joints were sitting in nowhere.
00:22:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. There were definitely, that Nego was looking at them joints. Probably Nego sent them on a mission to stop any dude. Come back with it. Yeah. so Hang around this area and and and just shake down anybody you can. Shake anybody.
00:22:44
Speaker
We need all 95s, exclusives. But I was so hyped. I got those ninety eights and the 98s like, They were all right. Yeah. Yeah. Not the man. It's crazy. That's such a crazy. Isn't that wild? That's so crazy that like that can happen because i have a a similar story, but I told the dude no. I was wearing 2015 red fours before reissued again.
00:23:06
Speaker
fifteen bread fours yeah before they reissued again And I went to a PAXLON and dude. Not PAXLON. I went to PAXLON and the dude working there was like, yo, yeah I've been looking for Brett Fawkes for like the past three, four years. They don't really be coming out. And this is like 2018 or whatever. The year before they actually came out again.
00:23:26
Speaker
And then he's like, yo, off your feet right now, 300. three hundred And I'm like, these are my first bred fours. Yeah. Bred fours are still a little low for that time. I think. Nah, I think it was because they were cooked.
00:23:39
Speaker
Like I had the, I had the, you know, when you wear them too much on the fours and then yeah the inside comes off, that was peeled off. Correct. Like off, off. And so I was like, I was like, I looked down and I'm like, nah, because i need, I like, i've I like, I love these. yeah The fours are my favorite model. Yeah. Hell. I told him no.
00:23:58
Speaker
But like, That's only, that only happens. That's like, I feel like you, it doesn't happen all the time. But if it does, I do feel like you kind of got to like, for the story. It's rare that somebody will, it's rare that somebody will approach you and ask you for the shoes off your feet. Off your feet, yeah.
00:24:11
Speaker
That's a bold move. Bold move. and Because what are you doing? Yeah. You don't need them that bad. You're like, and and even me in my head, I'm just thinking like, my feet probably stink. These sneakers stink. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, hot a hot shoe. You want these hot shoes. I remember when I was working at Yeezy and Ye gave Khaled the pair 700s off. Yeah, it was the 700 V3s. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.
00:24:38
Speaker
and And then like he hopped on the private jet. So he didn't have far to go and probably had another pair on the jet. So there's not a big deal. But like you and I on the street, what are we doing? We don't have a jet just waiting.
00:24:51
Speaker
You know what mean? But I thought that was a fire move because Cal was on Nike and he looked so happy. yeah It's like the time when Ronnie Jr. got caught at Christmas opening a pair of Yeezys on IG.
00:25:07
Speaker
And I know the people at Nike were just tight. Like, this is not supposed to be in the marketing video. You know? I mean, because I don't think that way. And I know that like a lot of there's like a lot of like talk about that stuff.
00:25:21
Speaker
ah But it comes from don't know how I could say this. It comes from ah an outside view. Yeah. It's like people that are which is I'm very curious what you think about this.
00:25:32
Speaker
When people who have like no real insight are just giving insight. Oh, yeah. They are their opinion. Yeah. But no, but they're saying it like, oh I don't know if such and such brand is gonna be happy with this. But there are just no like, there's obviously incidental stuff.
00:25:50
Speaker
But like, yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Unexpected Encounters and Celebrity Rooms
00:25:52
Speaker
I mean, i i as I know a little bit more about deals than most people. yeah um But, ah you know, these things are gonna happen. You know, if your kid wants a pair of Yeezys,
00:26:02
Speaker
You gotta lace them. Yeah. it's like It's like... But that's what saying. like Because what was that and incident with like Kai? on Oh, yeah. And he opened up of... opening the dot swooshes or something? no, no. He was opening up a pair of...
00:26:20
Speaker
I think it was AE1s or something like that I remember he was hyped right and they didn't like how hyped he was it was ASICS ASICS sent him stuff and then he opened it up on stream and then he was like and then he like put it he was like oh my god thank and then he was like And then he's like, oh, no, no, yeah, yeah. And he put him to the side. Yeah. And then he opened the dot swooshes and he was like, yeah, these are cool. yeah We all knew he wasn't that hype. No, yeah.
00:26:44
Speaker
So that I do feel like as a person who just like, I mean, I mean, you know, I do this podcast and stuff like that. yeah I don't have brand deals, so I don't know yeah about that idea of like brand loyalty in terms of payola.
00:26:59
Speaker
right But I think it's like when you are the outside looking in, it's just be like, all right, cool, I guess. Right, right, right. Yeah, I don't know you know. I think what it comes down to is like good product is good product.
00:27:10
Speaker
And people will get hyped with it, even if they're endorsed by another brand. you know It's crazy. Yeah. i mean and And this is part of like what we do with sneaker law and like what I do as a lawyer is like you got to understand the deal terms and people pay a lot of money for you to be on their brand.
00:27:26
Speaker
They don't want you in the hemisphere of another competing brand. just not can't happen. But it's like it's hard because everything is everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. It's not like because I always i always ah break this down to like FUBU in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. It's just like I feel like. Yeah. Shout out David Jones. Yeah. um But like that that whole his process of like I got to get as much popping people into my stuff. Yeah. Right. And as long as they wear it while they're being.
00:27:54
Speaker
you know, as they're blowing up, then I'm gonna blow up too. yeah And now we're into this era where that method is used by everybody. yes So it there's like ways you gotta be like, okay, get it into this shot here or put it here. And it's like, you know. Yeah, it's very commercial. yeah and And, you know,
00:28:13
Speaker
A lot of times you don't know if somebody's really rocking it because they like it or because they've been paid to rock itt And there are actually laws that govern that kind of thing. Like technically, if I'm on IG and I'm rocking somebody's kicks that they gave me, it should be a sponsored post. right But that's lame as hell.
00:28:32
Speaker
You know what Nobody wants to do that. No, hell no. You just wanted to be like, oh, you know I got these new kicks. Luckily, I'm not an influencer. I don't get paid to... you know No, but you got this great book and we we touched it. Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
00:28:46
Speaker
We touched on it, yeah. but You know hashtag sneaker law. Yeah, hashtag. for this if you If you see this clip, just hit us with the hashtag on there. Yeah, exactly. Paid sneaker law promoter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I'm going to put, you know, sponsored post on this one.
00:29:01
Speaker
okay Yeah. But ah so then where was, i mean, we you talked about the Puerto Rican Day Parade. Yes. And so I want to know where was that moment where you were like, all right, producing is not for me anymore.
00:29:16
Speaker
Did you have like a- Yeah, can tell you exactly when. Like- I actually, when I was in law school, um i was still making beats and it was like a a hobby, like an outlet, you know? and And it's still like, I always try to have creative outlets because they get you through tough times, like yeah stressful things. And, um you know, the making beats was always something that I kept around.
00:29:40
Speaker
And i actually had this amazing meeting with Lior Cohen when I was in, you know, a lawyer and I thought I was gonna be in the music business and it didn't pan out and this was just like the last straw. Like I had been disappointed so many times with this gatekeeping in the music business and I was just like, it. And I stopped.
00:29:57
Speaker
And I just leaned into being a lawyer and then, you know, ironically, The things that i do in law now have led me back to the music business, but not in a not in a music lawyer way, but in like ah a business, in a brand deal way and yeah working with celebrities on their business ventures. And ah you know um I'm doing it my way now. But the reason why i went to law school was because I produced the soundtrack for a film that wanted Sundance and I didn't get any credit.
00:30:26
Speaker
So I was like, bro, like I gotta learn how to protect my rights and how to advocate, if not for myself, if I'm not gonna be that dude, advocate for other creatives. yeah And that's always been a thing for me.
00:30:36
Speaker
Even growing up, my brother's an artist, I have other artists in my family, and artists just don't have people in their corner, typically. And I've seen it at every level, and I've worked for many different levels of creativity, yeah from you know people just starting out to the highest levels.
00:30:54
Speaker
And it's just mind blowing how people get taken advantage of at every turn. Yeah. Even when you think that they'd know the game by now, they still find ways to take advantage of them and screw them. And it's just my thing. Like, I feel like that's my purpose on this earth is to to help creatives out.
00:31:12
Speaker
Nah, yeah, because there's not many. Everybody's... there's There's so much predatory. I had this thought earlier today where it's just like there's way too much predatory people around.
00:31:24
Speaker
People that are just trying to create. Yeah. And so... um I was recently thinking just like, you know, when it comes to building an app, everybody's always trying to like, it's never just to solve a problem. right It's kind of, hey, we're just trying to milk what's already been, yeah you know, a correct process or whatever, or they're not really trying to help creativity. Adding AI to something is not going to really help creativity, right? It's more trying to eliminate it.
00:31:53
Speaker
And so that creates less creatives. Correct. Well, the creatives i mean the creatives are usually the first movers, but that doesn't mean that they're the most successful. like They do something unique and innovative, then someone comes along and says, oh, I like that idea. Let me commercialize that.
00:32:08
Speaker
And so you know what I try to do and what we've tried to do with sneaker law is educate people on how to protect their properties, their intellectual properties, set up their businesses the right way, um plan so that you know you don't have to be me. You don't have to be all nerded out on on law, but you should know enough to be to be dangerous. yeah like Every creative should know a little bit about law it's like you know um you're not gonna be a Formula One driver, but you gotta know how to drive a car. You know what I'm saying? So like, why is it, why do people approach law in that way? Because most lawyers appear to be more intellectual. They try to talk over you. They try to tell you, you can't learn this because, you know, I'm really fancy and I went to a good school and all this shit.
00:32:53
Speaker
It's not about that. like Anybody can learn the basics of law, especially if they read sneaker law, because we just break it down in a fun way. yeah But ah we we saw a void there and we were like, this shouldn't be this way. like It's just gatekeeping. It's access to things that everybody should know.
00:33:10
Speaker
And so we've tried to democratize that and make sure that people know enough so that they can protect themselves. And then when shit gets really serious, then you hire a lawyer, you know? But like, you know everybody's like, oh, you know, I need to need to trademark this and I need to patent that. And like, they just have no idea what they're talking about.
00:33:27
Speaker
And then they get screwed and they're like, but I but i but i thought I had these rights. And it's like, no, you know, like you should know these these basic principles. Yeah, basic principles. So, you know, and ah and it's just frustrating because I see it happen all the time with a lot of my friends, with a lot of my, you know, people that I look up to and respect.
00:33:45
Speaker
and And it's tough, you know? Like, even every year we go to the BFF, you know? And, like, I hear people talking about, like, I got screwed with this and somebody took my design and used it for that. And I'm just like, man, it should just be more a part of basic creative education. Yeah. You know? I will be there this year. so Same. I'll see you there, bro. We out there.
00:34:04
Speaker
um it's It's very interesting because, I mean, yeah, i I keep coming back to how people are predatory because I think, A lot of people see other people as like rungs on a ladder instead of just like, yo, we all we all can climb this ladder together. Yeah.
00:34:21
Speaker
You know? And so like, you know, you thinking and this has been like the thing that I've been preaching to people is like you you are of service and i think you get more out of life if you are of service. One hundred percent. And so the idea of just kind of being like, no, no, no, this is all me, me, me, me. me at one point it's just gonna be you, you, you, you. It's just gonna be you yourself. It's gonna come back around. I think, I don't know man, I think when people create something really cool and innovative, there's always gonna be leeches out there that can't get into those circles because they're just not that.
00:34:57
Speaker
So they're like, well, I need to steal my way in or lie my way in or cheat my way in or whatever. And they might get there, they might get to the table, but eventually they're gonna be found out, like i I believe.
00:35:08
Speaker
um The unfortunate part is that most of the time, somebody already gets hurt by the time they're found out. you know Or they leave a trail of just hurt people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, we don't have to we don't have to waste our breath on those people. No, for sure.
00:35:22
Speaker
I do want to say, because you mentioned celebrity, it was still, I still i talk about this to a lot of people. yeah So we were at the Staples opening. So we're at the Staples opening, right?
00:35:35
Speaker
And I run into Canada. I'm like, yo, what's good? Yo. I said, what's good? And he's just like, yo, he turns to He's just like, yo, how you gonna get in? I'm just like, i mean, they said I'm on the list or whatever. And then, and then I see somebody and he's, he's trying to get in.
00:35:51
Speaker
And at the same time, uh, you go, Oh, yo, Ja Rule here. And I go, what? And he's like, yeah, this is my man. I'm like, what? And he's like, and then i you introduced me to Ja Rule. And he's like, yeah, this is my man Haas. I'm like. Yeah, he literally pulled up in the in the escalator. Yeah. um yeah And I was like, I literally, I've been telling people ever since that, y'all,
00:36:14
Speaker
Kenzie just introduced me. I i got introduced to Ja Rule. It wasn't like a, you know? Yeah, that's the homie. That was just funny because just pulled up out of nowhere and and rolled the window down and and and we were talking.
00:36:27
Speaker
But you actually got me in. I know, yeah. Yeah. So that, like, it was all love. It was like, that's what I'm saying. It's like, if you're in service to someone, like, it all comes back around, you know? Like, I'm not going to stand there with you and I know you and not introduce you to someone that I also know. yeah That's rude. yeah And my parents taught me better than that. yeah It's not like this is a celebrity and i can't introduce you to this person. It shouldn't be like that. Nah, yeah. But you know how people are.
00:36:52
Speaker
I do. Do you have a story about how somebody... No, no, no. No, I mean, I do, but like, you know, I don't talk negatively or thought I... No, no, no. It's just gossip. I meant more of like be it in a like being in a room where somebody introduced and you didn't think that you'd ever be in a room with that person.
00:37:09
Speaker
I mean, I've been in many rooms that I didn't think I'd ever be in the room with that person. like What's your favorite favorite one then? ah You know, i don't i don't know. i don't i can't i can't rank them, man. like my My life is so blessed. like i i I find myself on a daily basis just being shocked and awed at like where things have gone. And i you know I think part of that is because of my faith. Part of that is because of um, you know, my desire to keep myself around things that I love. Yeah.
00:37:42
Speaker
And I've created this sort of, this sort of cocoon for myself where it's just like, I, if I don't like it, i don't work on it. You know what i mean? And I, and, and, um, and I learned that, you know, pretty early on that like, um, if you surround yourself with the things that you love, like you just, you're a constant magnet for, for those things. Yeah.
00:38:00
Speaker
And, ah you know, i don't really I don't really like to talk about who this, that, and like, it's just like, because I'm a dude that needs to move behind the scenes. yeah People hire me for my confidences and for my, um you know, for my professionalism and credibility and all that stuff. So like, if I'm out here in the street, just blabbing, like, you know,
00:38:20
Speaker
And I talk a lot, like, but, you know, I'm a professor, like, you know. Yeah. Occasionally I agree to a podcast here and there. You know what I This was not a ploy to to get a a crazy, you to get a crazy
Working with Kanye West and Bridging Culture and Law
00:38:34
Speaker
name out of you. It was more of just like, you know, the realization of you were in that room. Yeah, yeah. Versus being, a being like, yeah.
00:38:43
Speaker
Versus being at like, oh, front page of National Inquisitor type of shit. You like know you know, I worked with Ye for a long time and that was still my like mind blowing. And, and you know, it's it's unfortunate that like, you know, things wild out like after a certain point. But, um you know, how did how did how did that come about? Like, how did you get that opportunity?
00:39:05
Speaker
ah you know It was one of these things that I kind of seized the moment. There was no lawyer at Yeezy at that time. and um you know I sort of threw a Hail Mary out there to a friend of mine who was also a client who was working for a Kanye.
00:39:18
Speaker
And he was like, yeah, you know like let's less's rock. And um actually first he said, are you sure you want to quit a comfy law job to come work for this guy? And- Were you was you're like straight law? I was a partner in a law firm. yeah Partner? Yeah, in a New York City law firm. Suits style?
00:39:36
Speaker
Your name was on the door? Harvey Smeckner. Yeah. My name was not on the door. My name was not on the door. you know But like i I left behind ah very traditional um you know job to go work at the hottest brand in the world at the time. you know And and ah like I didn't even blink. like It was just like, it wasn't even a question. yeah And I didn't know if I was going to last three years or three days. You know mean? Because there are people that have lasted...
00:40:03
Speaker
you know perhaps less. yeah um and And it just worked out. you know And I think that made me realize that like, oh, all the shit that I had learned before I got to law school is now entirely relevant on top of the things that I know as a lawyer. yeah And I had been practicing 15 years at the time. I was not a spring chicken.
00:40:22
Speaker
i was very senior. I knew exactly what the F I was doing. But it validated the fact that on the business side, like I knew way more about this business of Yeezy than I would ever give myself credit for. It was like, man, like, this is what I've been studying up my whole life. yeah You know what i mean? Like, just the culture and, yeah you know, and then, you know, like, when i when I, like, on the music side, I wasn't involved in the music, sort of, you know, the music, that he had his own lawyer for that, but,
00:40:50
Speaker
I knew all the shit that was going on. That's crazy. Five albums in five weeks. Yeah. Nuts. It was nuts. What a time. Yeah, that was crazy. but The hottest, the hot streak. That was, whoo.
00:41:02
Speaker
Yeah, it was wild. That was crazy. And so like, so I guess my like muddiness about around Yeezy was like, The brand itself was the brand itself, right? You weren't like necessarily working directly with like Adidas?
00:41:17
Speaker
or no No, I was. yeah yeah i mean um Part of what we did at at the brand was administer the Adidas licensing deal. and ah you know I was heavily involved in that. That was a ah big contract. you know I had to interpret it and I had to um advise on it. Then also,
00:41:37
Speaker
in and then also like you know I had the fortune of working with some of the people on the Adidas Yeezy team who were really good people and put a lot of hard work in and broke their backs for the amazing product that we see out there today. was definitely a ah group effort. you know Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. He did set, ah I mean, he had Bima on there. Shout out Bima. Yeah, bro. That's the homie. Yeah. Shaq West was in that team. Yeah.
00:42:02
Speaker
Salahi, Jeff Henderson. yeah yeah Great people. That's the thing, like if you look at, like he's the Quincy Jones of this shit. like He brings together amazing people and makes beautiful albums, makes beautiful brands and you know all these things. And in that sense, like for me to be there at that time and to be in that atmosphere of like all this great talent, it was you couldn't you couldn't compare it.
00:42:27
Speaker
How did that inspire you into your next move after? I mean, I learned a lot there and i think I think this was part of the deal was like from that point on I said, you know i need to i need to lean into this unique skillset that I have, which is um you know sort of bridging the gap between culture and law and you know sort of the the the block to the boardroom, that kind of thing. And like- as hard Yeah, it's it's hard, but like I'm- No, I mean like best saying is hard. yeah I need that on a shirt. Like blocked to the boardroom is hard. Yeah, that's tough.
00:42:59
Speaker
ah It's probably trademarked already. But if not, we'll be we'll go half on it. But you know, like I realized that I was more of a translator than anything because I had this gift of explaining things that were very complicated and perhaps um certain creative people might not want to explain you know, deal with that kind of stuff. And I was able to present it to them in a way that they understood.
00:43:22
Speaker
And, that was just further legitimacy for the way we went about sneaker law. was like, man, like, you know, we have this gift of like distilling complex legal concepts and bringing them to people that should have that knowledge.
00:43:36
Speaker
And, And ah yeah, so so the stuff that I learned at Yeezy was, based and and basically from Kanye, was that if you surround yourself with things you love at all times, you never feel like you're working. yeah So this was a dude that would like bounce from, you know, the atelier and he was like, you know, he'd be like proving socks or like, you know, or or or the next hoodie.
00:43:58
Speaker
And then he'd move into like his architecture space and then he'd move to his music studio and like drop a verse or like, and and I saw that and i was like, how do I do that in my own life? you know I'm not an international hip hop star, but like you know how do i how do i create that sort of cocoon of of enjoyment in whatever I do?
00:44:19
Speaker
And the result of that was taking on a lot of things that um I was interested in that didn't turn out to be lucrative, turning down things that I wasn't interested that were lucrative. yeah And you know, now I've kind of blended it together in a, in a place that I'm very happy with, you know, but like it takes some trial and error, you know? And I think that's the thing we, we always look like yay is not afraid to fail because there is no failure in his mind. It's just like, all right, well I'm just experimenting, you know? And I'm,
00:44:47
Speaker
And I think that's an important lesson is like when, as we go throughout our careers, taking these leaps and doing these weird things or like taking risks, you know, you're always worried about how other people perceive you.
00:45:00
Speaker
If you erase that from the equation, it's all experience. yeah you know sure It's the ego and the pride that makes you think that like, oh, if I try this out and I and i fail, that dude is gonna be there to remind me like, oh, what's up with your little thing? You know? you know Ralph, you got Ralph from The Simpsons going, ha ha. Exactly, exactly. What happened to your little album? It's like,
00:45:21
Speaker
You know, what are you doing? Yeah, exactly. So like, I don't I don't have that mindset anymore. i just i I just try things that that excite me and make me passionate. So, you know, that was a big takeaway.
00:45:33
Speaker
And I've tried a lot of different things over the years. I'm still trying stuff, you know, as you should. as you should. I think we always learn out of failure it's when you think the when. Because like my thing is I've always told people, got to keep pivoting. Eventually, eventually the sofa's coming down. The sofa's coming down the stairs if you keep pivoting. Correct. You just got find that right angle. Yeah, exactly. I get you.
00:45:55
Speaker
I've moved a couple couches. In Brooklyn apartments. Yeah. Y'all, good luck. But it's like the that that idea of like, I was telling this and I got into this big argument about it, but it's just like, you know, people don't want, people feel like they if they get a no or if like something somebody tells them no or something like that, that now, oh,
00:46:22
Speaker
or somebody told them that somebody else got to know and something that you're doing similar, right? These are scenarios that we always hear or have- Yeah, rejection's tough. Yeah. But it also, them telling you that is going to deter you from doing that thing. Yeah. And it's kind of just like, nothing's going to stop me from being creative. Nothing's going stop me from recording this podcast, right? Yeah. Like, yeah you know, a guest doesn't come on the episode, okay, I'll just find another one. Like, it's, ah it i am gonna I'm going to continue wanting to do because I'm going to want to do this. But,
00:46:51
Speaker
you know, people are afraid to fail and fail. Like once you get over that will look. Yeah. yeah Like, and but once you get over that hump of like, I tried and you're like, all right, cool. Now I know now I can do it either do it better next time or keep going or like, but you have to get over that
Overcoming Fear and the Importance of Originality
00:47:10
Speaker
hump. And, yeah and,
00:47:13
Speaker
Betting on yourself or like believing in yourself is probably the hardest thing that anybody can do. very hard. It's very hard. And it takes a lot. And it's like something that I still have to practice every day, you know, because there's sometimes you have doubts and you're just like, am I doing the right thing or not?
00:47:27
Speaker
um ah There was a post that Jason Maiden made a couple of weeks ago where he was like, you know, you should create in silence and like don't speak too much about things that you're working on before they happen. Yeah.
00:47:39
Speaker
because, um you know, we should be we should be doers, not talkers. And that really resonated with me. When Jared and I were writing Sneaker Law during the pandemic, we just put our heads down. and like we just We just did it.
00:47:52
Speaker
And I think if we had known where this book was going to go before we finished it, we might have never finished it. yeah Because we would have tried to make it too perfect. Mm-hmm.
00:48:02
Speaker
or we would have been too fearful of where it would have gone. Like our first lecture that we did on sneaker law after the book drop was at Harvard Law School. There's nowhere to go but down from there. You know what I Like we've gone all all places, but like, you know, that was that was like, it shocked us. I'm looking at like, why am I even in this building? You know what i mean? Like how'd they let me in? yeah But you know When you have something special and you put your, you never know where your art's gonna go.
00:48:32
Speaker
And it's only in your own head the limitations that you put on it. yeah And so sometimes you can talk yourself out of the end result before you even get there. And the beauty of it was we wrote that book during the pandemic and we were on lockdown and we had no one to talk to about it, no one that like, and it was just me and him on Zoom just like banging the shit out. yeah And before we know it, we had it and it was done.
00:48:54
Speaker
We launched a pre-order and it came out three months later and it was like, oh shit, like this is way better than we thought. yeah you know yeah Because we had a vision. And if you have a vision and you stay true to that vision, you shouldn't worry what the outside outside noise is. no No, the only thing you can do is actually try to make that vision come true.
00:49:14
Speaker
right Because if not, it's going to sit there. Yeah, it's crazy. You think the RZA was listening to the people chirping in his ear when he was making the 36 Chambers? No. He was locked in his basement, bro. Going hard. we we He got a whole Hulu show about it, about how hard he went. I know. That's what I'm saying. And I was just at the show and it's just like, man, you know like art is timeless if you make something good.
00:49:37
Speaker
And that's the thing. If you care the most about the product, you know, and and and you make that so authentic and so true, people can't take that from you. No, yeah. You know? I've always wondered, like, how you have been able to, you know, keep culture, you know, around you and, like, within the book, within, yeah you know, I feel like you are, when like, people tell me I'm outside.
00:49:59
Speaker
You are outside. You think so? Yeah. but so I feel like you're at you're, but, like, I always say, i always tell people, like, you know I try to be intentional. yeah like I'm not at everything, but it does look like I'd be at everything. But like if it's like, yo, you get invited. you know But usually, if I'm invited, you're there. so i don't know. Maybe, maybe. um you know I always feel like I could be doing more.
00:50:22
Speaker
you know So I think that's nice to hear because sometimes I'm very hard on myself and I'm like, I'm not doing enough. I could be at this. I could be at that. um But it's exhausting, you know? Sometimes you gotta take time for yourself and really, you know, work on yourself and being outside all the time is exhausting. It's very exhausting.
00:50:40
Speaker
You know? And um I'm a very social person, you know? So I like that. I like that environment. um But what I'm finding in my old age, like the more I um do lectures and talk and all this stuff, the more I turn into an introvert when I'm not doing those things.
00:50:55
Speaker
yeah So I just want a break, you know? Yeah. Because you can't be on all the time. Uh-uh. So I've been i like, when I go home, I don't talk to anybody. I'm like, just leave me alone. I just, just think you talk all the time. oh No, no.
00:51:09
Speaker
I'm like, I'm like, all right, I'm just going to put on some headphones and just shut up. Like, yeah, there has to be some balance. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you got to charge up for next time.
00:51:20
Speaker
it is It is crazy when I'm like, the week is like, all right two podcasts, three outdoor things. Yeah. And then I'm like, cool. Sunday, I'm like, I don't want to talk to anybody. just I'll put on the wire and just let me let me rock. Yeah, yeah. You know? like No, there's got to be some balance. Yeah. And I think, you know, whatever it is, like there's different forms of meditation, whether you go for walks or you listen to music or whatever, you got to have some time where you just, you know,
00:51:46
Speaker
Chill. Yeah. Yeah. Like the, but yeah, I'm very curious about like the culture, know, like the, how do you absorb it as like what it, what I've always been a culture junkie, you know, like ever since, i don't know, early MTV video music box. Like I just consume it. Yeah. Like Ralph McDaniel. Like I,
00:52:06
Speaker
I consume culture. So like when people tell me to put my phone down because I'm scrolling Instagram and stuff like that, like, yo, this is how I've been doing this, you know? Like my screen time's been up. It just wasn't logged in the phone, you know what I mean? But like, you know, we had, like, I mean, I just always have been fiend, like whether it was wrestling, comic books, you know, wrestling,
00:52:34
Speaker
He-Man, like whatever. Like I've always been interested in whatever the the culture's doing. And that could be a lot of different things. Like I'm not i'm not on this LaBooBoo wave, but like i know of it. I know about it.
00:52:46
Speaker
You know what mean? Like- Look, they're gonna hit you up soon. They're gonna be like, hey, we need the best. I'm here, I'm here for it, you know? Pop Mart, come holler. yeah yeah um But you know, i like I just love it and it keeps me young. you know like it It makes me feel like i i like when I was a kid and like anything that was new coming out, we used to joke, my friend group would be like, nah, you're not up on this. like that was That was the line, like yeah you don't know about that new Nas, you're not up on that. yeah And was like, wait, wait, i could i'd like tell me
00:53:18
Speaker
Put me up on that. No, no, no, no. You're not up on that yet. You don't have that Mobb Deep demo? You don't know about that? like This was before Shook One's Part 2 came out. You don't have that Mobb Deep demo? And was like, yo, I got to have that Mobb Deep demo. And and so I try to be ahead of the curve. yeah and And it's tough, man. like Especially now, for sure.
00:53:37
Speaker
yeah Yeah. It's really tough. like you know it's not like It's like a new hip-hop album that comes out every minute. every Yeah, for sure. I just can't be up on all, and a lot of it's garbage. but you know but ah that It's funny because you say that, and I do feel like that's a lost art. Because my biggest thing, if I'm like, if we're friends, right?
00:53:56
Speaker
I'm hitting you. Putting them on, yeah. Yeah, my homie, we always send albums, and it's like, what do you think of the new one? Ah, it's kind of wack. There's a couple bangers. But yeah, I got to stay up on top of it, and there's too much content.
00:54:10
Speaker
So if someone can filter that for me, You know, you're just helping out. There's an app. There's an app. There's an app being made right now. You just got you just got an app made for you. Yeah, my friend, thej the DJ. It's interesting to see, because I'm very curious about this, because you as like trying to be part of do do be part of the culture, yeah you know, and also educate people on how to stay, you know,
00:54:35
Speaker
Not being broke. Yeah, you know, like I get it's sunken under the culture. Yes, you know because there has been a lot of like, oh, you know, somebody's buying this or doing that. and Yeah That we see a lot of people just being claiming that oh, yeah, you're taking my shit or like, you know, we got a corporations being like, yeah, we're just stealing straight off of the backs of somebody that's posted regularly on Instagram. So like How do you communicate that to like you know the younger generation, especially when you're doing these like you know the seminars and yeah teaching in schools?
00:55:12
Speaker
I mean, well, they like there's infringement like that's unlawful when you steal someone's idea. yeah And then there's biting. you know And i came I came up in an anti-biting culture. yeah And you know it's just an unwritten rule. like You just don't steal somebody's shit, you know whatever it is.
00:55:29
Speaker
And so I believe in being original and being authentic and all that stuff. um But there are guidelines, there are legal guidelines to what you can take and what you can't take. and so um and And I try to teach people the gray areas of that. you know Like there's inspiration. and then there's stealing. you know Some people were like, oh, what's this Virgil Abloh's 5% rule? you know So if I only change 5%, I'm good.
00:55:51
Speaker
And it's like, no, that doesn't always work. you have to remember, like Virgil was changing 5%, but he had a license to do so. like If he changed 5% of an Avion water bottle and changed the label up a little bit, he had done that deal with Avion. He had permission to do that.
00:56:07
Speaker
You know what mean? it doesn't mean that you can go out and buy an Avion bottle and start making your own Avion water. Yeah. You know? So um there's, and this is what we try to do is educate people on the sort of guideposts for all this stuff.
00:56:20
Speaker
But, you know, when it comes to like just general movement, I try to be true to that anti-biting culture and like- you know just have respect for other people that have paved the way you know um you know like i think there's that skater that just yeah yeah i was just that's that's where this comes this question is coming from yeah yeah somebody hit me up about that yesterday stevie williams and eric coston but like welty did a uh uh he had a set down with him kind of whatever phone call yeah um and wrote about like them that beef that they had and yeah
00:56:55
Speaker
It's unfortunate. It is. But the way he was saying what when I read it, it was it was more of like, oh, I was just trolling them back. Oh, all right. And so i was like, OK.
00:57:06
Speaker
But then he also said that, know, which you should do. We should keep people honest. Yeah. And probably the people at Nike Marketing came up with the slogan. They oh, this seems pretty cool. And nobody knew. huh.
00:57:17
Speaker
You know? i mean, yeah, that can also happen too. I don't know. I don't know. i don't know either. I don't know, like I wasn't there type of thing. Yeah. But like, I i do think that, you know, he definitely should have gotten credit in the beginning.
00:57:30
Speaker
And... and What do you mean by that? Right in the beginning. Because like until that video, because they use his his his video to show him skating. Right. And then their his biggest hang up is that the his phrase that he says in the video yeah is what is What is it, eat, pray, love or something like that? Basically. See, eat skate eat, skate, sleep. I don't know. I don't know. Something like that. Skate, sleep, repeat. Yeah. Yeah. Suplexity? Yeah. ah um
00:58:01
Speaker
And so he he was saying that, oh, you know, I didn't see that part of the video right in in this interview. right And I'm like, all right. like But you gave approval on the video, though.
00:58:14
Speaker
yeah so Well, this is what we try to we try to educate people is like, if you did come up with a slogan that you coined yeah that you think is culturally moving like moving and like effective then trademark that. You know what I mean? yeah And he didn't. yeah You know what I mean? So like you can't cry over spilled milk later, yeah years later. yeah You know, if you really are about that and you really put that down as your slogan, then you should march into the trademark office and start making some t-shirts, you know, or like doing something. And and this is how we learn to commercialize things that we innovate.
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah. And so that's that's the the, I think, the takeaway from it. And it's not to reduce his cultural significance of what he's done, because everybody will look to him and say, like, yeah, you were that first dude.
00:59:03
Speaker
But being that first dude is one thing, and profiting off of it is another. And some people feel icky about that, and they're like, well, I'm not that kind of dude. It's like, all right, but then don't be upset when somebody else steps in. Yeah That's That's like the biggest Hang up I guess That I'm having with this too Yeah Cause like I read It's tough I feel for dude I feel Yeah I feel for him too But like if he's saying Cause he When I read it He's saying like Nah it's good I'm good And I'm like If that's cool then yeah Yeah I mean, that's a true skater's mentality. You know, it's like, you know, you do take a fall, you get up and keep it moving. Yeah, exactly. I do think, I think maybe there's one part that I did not enjoy reading was that like, he thought it was fine until people was hitting him up. Yeah.
00:59:48
Speaker
Yeah. And I was like, you could have still just been like, it's fine. But I, but it's- I get that though. Yeah. Cause it's like, oh, I wasn't that incensed about it, but now my man's just hitting me like, yo, how'd they play you like that, bro? You know, and like you're like, no, you're right. Now you get egged on.
01:00:03
Speaker
Oh, word, that's what they said? All right. I'm to see that. I'm going to see that. All right, then. Then you get the, all right, then. Yeah, you know, lot of this is pride and ego and stuff like that. It's like, you know, sometimes we create ideas and we don't always think about the profit.
01:00:21
Speaker
And that's love, you know? Like I think sometimes we just just create for the sake of it. And this goes across industries and disciplines. But other times it's like if you have something that you know is special, fight to protect that. Fight to protect it for sure. You know?
01:00:34
Speaker
Which I definitely think he did. i just feel like... They could have, like, if that's the case, then yeah put them in the damn- Well, let's play the tape. Let's say he came up with this slogan, immediately ran to the trademark office, got protection for it, and it was out there being used.
01:00:50
Speaker
Nike would not have used that slogan. No, definitely wouldn't. They wouldn't pay no zero homage. No, they would have found something else. yeah It wasn't that integral to the campaign. Yeah, exactly. They were going to sell ninety five s are regardless. Regardless. Regardless, man.
01:01:02
Speaker
But now we're at the towards the end of the podcast and it deals with a little visualization. I want you to think back to when you were younger, younger you. ah And I think about that all the time. I'm living
Sneaker Joy and Personal Reflections
01:01:13
Speaker
it.
01:01:13
Speaker
yeah Now he's about to open that box of the fives. ah Now you're now you're healthy now you're you you travel back in time behind yourself, your younger self.
01:01:24
Speaker
What would you tell your younger self as he opens that box?
01:01:29
Speaker
I would say, you know keep this same energy. you know like And I have. um you know i can I can tell you exactly what that felt like at that moment then, and I can tell you what every moment of every pair of sneakers I opened up with. It's that real to me.
01:01:45
Speaker
And people sometimes sometimes people that don't get it, they're just like, I look at Kenneth in his cute little sneakers, or they laugh, like what's the big deal? like You're a grown ass man, why do you have so many sneakers? it just makes me feel good, bro.
01:01:55
Speaker
It's like I know guys that buy drivers and I know guys that buy wine and stock their cellar wine and like watches or whatever. This is what makes me feel good. And when I opened up that pair, first of all, a lot of people don't know those fives came in a Mylar bag, bro. like It was like this Mylar wrapping.
01:02:12
Speaker
And um haven't seen that in many Jordans since. Nah. um Well, I never, i never i'm I'm saying nah, like I actually opened the box. No, I have not. No, no. and and ah And it was just like, it was it was a special moment. And it was like, I think if you're waiting as a kid so long for something so special and you treasure it in that way, you're going to keep that.
01:02:34
Speaker
And that's why people are like, well, why don't you mess up your sneakers? Or what's the big deal? Like if somebody steps on the back of your shoe when they're walking too close to you, it's like, nah, bro, like you don't understand. Like, I live for this, you know? Like this is this is me. and ah and it's And it's so much fun. And like when I hop on Zoom, I got the whole wall of sneakers. Like it just makes me happy.
01:02:53
Speaker
So I surround myself with the things I love and I feel good about It's like if you want to go play golf all day, like do you. yeah for oh You know what i mean? So if I could visually, like I would tell myself, everything's going to be all right, bro. There's going many more of these moments. They covered. Yeah, because I thought this was as good as it's going to get.
01:03:12
Speaker
You know? that You thought you peaked right there. You were like, that's it. It's never happened again. No. you know and And the funny thing is, just related to that, is I went to law school and I moved in with my wife. And I had a lot of sneakers, but we had a very small studio apartment in Brooklyn Heights.
01:03:26
Speaker
And I had to get rid of a lot of these sneakers. Yeah. and And she was like, yeah, we just don't have the room. And I was like, ah I'll do it. you know That's what we do for love. Yeah, exactly. um But little did she know i was going to rebuy those sneakers years later. She would have never made me throw those out. Because I know how my wife thinks.
01:03:43
Speaker
And and ah you know I bought them all back, though. And then some. but You made it. You hear the way say that? Yeah. Like it's like, you know? That was the, all right then. right, I'll take it away.
01:03:57
Speaker
We'll see then. Yeah. Yeah, facts. But you know, that's the love, right? You know, it's like, it's all going to work out. You didn't get that pair of shoes, it's going to come back around. You didn't get those undefeated fours, you might have a shot.
01:04:09
Speaker
150,000 pairs. Well, I struck out twice, so we'll see. Yeah, i don't know. We'll see. There's always StockX. Yeah, I'm definitely not doing it for those.
Connecting with Kenneth and Podcast Engagement
01:04:20
Speaker
But let everybody know where to find you. Yeah, I'm on IG. Kenneth taught me. LinkedIn. Kenneth taught me. Sneaker Law. SneakerLaw.com. You know, we're out here. We're outside. You know you know how we do. cop the book.
01:04:33
Speaker
Yeah. ah When's three coming out? Oh man, not for a minute. You see how big that book is, bro? You know how much work goes into that? like um That is really the Bible for the sneaker industry. yeah And it a lot of love and and um time and and just passion went into that.
01:04:50
Speaker
um There's a hidden sticker page inside. like So when you were a kid and you had those sticker books, yeah like imagine like you're in you're in class in law school and you open up a book and there's stickers inside. like Nobody's doing this shit. Nobody's doing it, man.
01:05:03
Speaker
these This is amazing. Thank you so much for pulling up. Yeah, love. Yeah. i got do I still got to do my outro. ah You know where to find me. I am who is Hassan on social media. to Follow the podcast of My First Kicks Pod.
01:05:14
Speaker
If you have a story, hit me up. Info at myfirstkicks.com. I'm going to pass it off over to me for the Patreon shoutouts. So peace. I hope you enjoyed that episode with Kenneth.
01:05:27
Speaker
We got to learn about his journey through sneakers, some crazy stories, you know, him growing up and also just like dropping, you know, everything to become a lawyer.
01:05:39
Speaker
Right. Like crazy. Right. But of course we got Patreon shout outs. And my whole plan with this one was I was and this is why it in this format, because i was actually going to do it at the JTips pop up.
01:05:50
Speaker
And I messed that up. I got out there and i was like, Yeah, it's going to be do Let me do it. Let me do it. And then I just started getting into conversation after conversation.
01:06:01
Speaker
So, you know, shout out to J tips. Go visit the pop up. The savior pop up with StockX. Free plug. I don't know, but I'll be there sometimes.
01:06:13
Speaker
definitely trying to go there today. ah might grab some content or something like that for the patron. But let's do the patron shout outs. So shout out to Adam Neustetter, which re sub at the five dollars. Shout out to you, man. Appreciate you for for starting us off. Like I said, and I say each and every week we got Ross Adams next.
01:06:34
Speaker
Then Derek, a.k.a. Fresh Poetic. Shout out Derek. Adam Butler. and just CG, Jesse.
01:06:43
Speaker
Five, I'm at five sit Patreon subscribers right now. I'm still looking to get the 10 so I can do a Patreon exclusive episode. want to suggestions and if you want to add suggestions on the patreon definitely sign up for patreon you can do that i know we i got like 10 free subscribers on there just know there's not not going to be anything free on there this whole episode is free so there is no free tier we've got two tiers three dollars here five dollar tier five dollar tier is a lot more inclusive of everything else that you know i'd be mentioning or you know, trying to include because, you know, that's the the higher part of it. And $3, you just get a shout out at the end of every episode like this, like the last five people that names that I've mentioned.
01:07:29
Speaker
So, Just want to make sure, you know, everybody knows patreon.com slash my first kicks. And if you want to check out more episodes, just like the one you just watched here, you've got these two videos right here and hit that subscribe button as well.
01:07:46
Speaker
And don't forget, wear your kicks. Peace.