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Setting Kicks on Fire with Jazerai Allen-Lord
0 Playsin 5 hours
This week I am joined by the legendary Jazerai Allen-Lord, we talk about her journey into the sneaker industry. From becoming a writer at the age of 8 to helping Kicks on Fire become a profiting business. Jaz takes us down her career as well as touches on being a Mom. Mentoring people that she finds that have amazing talent. Creating True to Size and how she is working to help women in sneakers. We also touch on sneakers she was able to create and much much more!
Follow Jaz:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/nerdlikejazzy/
Twitter: https://x.com/jazzyrae
True to Size: https://www.truetosize.com/
Podcast Linktree: https://linktr.ee/myfirstkicks
Sign up for the Patreon: https://patreon.com/MyFirstKicks
Music by The DoppleGangaz: https://thedoppelgangaz.bandcamp.com/
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
That's crazy.
Viral Moments and Blogging Beginnings
00:00:01
Speaker
and he hit caught he hit me up on aol instant messenger and he's like hey and he sent me a picture of me that had been like viral on tumblr it was ah picture of the day lossss souls under my wedding dress because and divorced now by got married in the daylight that's crazy And so that picture like went Tumblr viral. So he's like, is this you?
00:00:22
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, that's me. And he was like, are you a writer? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, you really like sneakers? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, and you're a girl? And I'm like, yeah. And he was like, do you want to write for, it or do you want to blog about sneakers like on kicks on fire whatever? And I was like, what the hell is kicks on fire? yeah Like, what is that?
00:00:42
Speaker
And I was like, oh i like what is the what is blogging? like i was like, what are you talking about? So he showed me and I was like, yeah. I'm like, and you're going to pay me? yeah Excuse me. I was like, you're going to pay me to do this? I do this shit for free with my friends like every day. yeah I'm writing on MySpace and my little notes. So I'm like, yeah, I do this like for free every day. Like, absolutely.
00:01:03
Speaker
You want me to research the sneakers coming out and write about them on the internet? Got you. Yeah.
00:01:12
Speaker
What's good, everyone?
Introducing Jazzy Rae and Industry Insights
00:01:13
Speaker
Welcome back to My First Kicks. This episode 244, and this week, we got an absolute legend. Long time coming. Welcome to the podcast, Jazzy Rae. Thank you. Hey, guys. That one.
00:01:23
Speaker
Just that one. Just that one. Say hi, guys. I feel like there's like 50 cameras in here. I know. Yeah. I don't pay for the other two. like This is the one we pay for. high One day, yeah.
00:01:37
Speaker
Welcome to the podcast. You know, this ah this is a long time coming. I mean, remember, I still, mean, I was telling you earlier, texting you earlier. I remember the first time i reached out to you when I first started the podcast. I had Don Will on. yeah And Don Will's usually have Jazzy Ray on.
00:01:50
Speaker
And so I messaged you and you told me no, but it wasn't. And this is where I and I'm gonna give you 100% of the credit. This is where I the first time I i got a no and I realized like it's OK to accept no's. And so a lot of people and this is what Premium Pete told me. It's just like.
00:02:11
Speaker
You will get no's, but like it's all about following up and seeing how because you got to show the progression yeah and that consistency and that persistence. And I think like you like hitting you up and you tell me I was just like, all right, I got this. Don't worry. We're going we're going we're going to make this happen eventually. Yeah, because it's, you know, when I think ah maybe i don't know if this happens to you, but like hundreds of people are like in the DMs and they're like, look, look at my T-shirt. Listen to my single. Like, check out my podcast. Can you be on the podcast? And it's like, OK, if you just I don't really know you. So let me just sit back and observe. hmm. So I'm a real big like, let me just fall
Networking and Visibility in the Sneaker World
00:02:48
Speaker
back for a minute. And so then I started seeing you outside. And like I've told everybody, like you really put it in the work. Like i I've seen you BFF events and other events and just like introducing yourself to people and making yourself accessible. And other i people in the industry know about your podcast, too. Like and I was like, OK, he's been doing the work. like yeah I will. Yeah, that's right OK. I'll sit down with him. So here we are.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, its is I mean, huge honor. I know like I can't even i want to and like I want to do a stream of just like, oh, my God. But like the I mean, i you told me to watch. What's the name of the show that was on Roku? You ain't got these. You ain't got these.
00:03:26
Speaker
And ah just first off, ah you know, if you haven't watched it, please make sure you watch it. Like, I felt so much emotion watching, you know. i mean, I cry. I ugly cry like 10 times from that show. But I cry when I watch it back because it's such a different time of my life. And, like you know, life was very different before.
00:03:45
Speaker
Everybody around the world really knows who you are. And, like, they think of you like, oh, she has a shoe. It's a very different experience. So it was it feels very tender when I watch it back
Challenges and Support for Black Individuals in the Industry
00:03:56
Speaker
and very, like...
00:03:57
Speaker
Okay, it reminds me of like where I came from, even though it was so far in by the time to my career, if it makes me feel like more the very beginning. Yeah, I mean, i think what's really beautiful about it is that you really push forward how your intention with your career. And ah and I don't think a lot of people understand that because it's like,
00:04:17
Speaker
And I think, shout out to Smooth, but like we were... Yes, my baby. Yeah, but you we but um were at BFF and, ah you know, you were telling me you should go, I should go. Chalisa was telling me I should go.
00:04:32
Speaker
And so i was like, all right, cool, I'm gonna next year. Boom. But I'm thinking like... oh yeah, this is like an industry thing. Like it's not really for me type of thing. But the what really opened my eyes was just like what you were saying. Because like I've known your your story for so long.
00:04:49
Speaker
And I didn't know that so many people also experienced that. Where it's just like, it's like these people are in the industry and are trying to get the black voice out there. Or, you know, black black women's voice, black male male men's voice. And it's like,
00:05:05
Speaker
you're you're You feel like you're on island until you're at that conference. I think you said it in maybe the spaces last night. like It's a bunch of people who, excuse me, a bunch of people who's like, you're the only person who's black at the table.
00:05:20
Speaker
And like it's a lonely experience, but when you're in a space like that, everybody's having the same experience. so Yeah. It's the only place where you can like share frustrations, really, and somebody really understands what it's like. Because it's a different thing working at a traditional business and experiencing these things because a lot of us come up with like you know wanting to work in this business and it being like a dream and wearing these products. Yeah.
Personal Stories: Racism, Sneakers, and Culture
00:05:44
Speaker
There's a different emotional connection between black and brown people and and the sneaker industry than when we're having these um racist and microaggression com you know experiences in a workplace. if It feels, it hits very different yeah when it's like the thing that you love. Yeah. and And then there's even conversations about that where somebody would go to HR and then they'll be like,
00:06:06
Speaker
tough it out. Like, you know, and it's tough because I've witnessed some of that as well. Like I've been, my career, like I've worked in project management. don't talk about it a lot, but like I'm a creative asset manager for an advertising company. And like I've been through, like I worked at entertainment. I worked. Yeah. I'm sure you've seen and heard some things. I've through. I've gotten, yeah, I've been through my fair share of stuff. And being one of the only person of color that would be in that room, I'm like, damn, this sucks. like you know And so being able to have like other people and go other like and seeing your journey in in that docu-series, I think it's called now. Yeah, I think it's previously on Quibi, now on Roku. Yeah.
00:06:49
Speaker
But seeing seeing that and seeing that story being told is is something that needs to be and like pushed out more often. Because I think we live in this world now, and I mean, this is what the space I was talking about yesterday too, where it's just like thinking about it, like the differences between ComplexCon and BFF. It's so wild to hear somebody say like, which one should I go to? And it's like, ain't gonna be no rides at BFF, I'm gonna tell you right now. No.
00:07:16
Speaker
And it's not Coney Island. Like, yeah, like you're not going to have the same experience. J-Tips are not dropping no exclusive drops there. yeah But it's like, are people accessible? Yes. Like, absolutely. And like friendly? Absolutely. It's just like a different audience of the sneaker but culture, yeah community, industry, all of the above. Yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker
But before liz before we get deeper into that, you're here to answer the question that I ask everybody each week. And that question is, what's your first kick? So it's that first pair of sneakers you absolutely needed to have. Oh my God. It's like twofold for me because I'm a San Diego, Southern California kid. So the Chuck Taylor was like, for me, and I think I tell this story in the sneakers book, but it was like, my mom couldn't even afford like the $45 Chuck Taylor. So,
00:08:03
Speaker
all the like white girls, you know, I went to predominantly white schools most of my life was like, they all had blue chucks or black chucks. And I'm like, damn, I really want chucks. So it was like that first when my mom finally was like, okay, I'll do it. I was like, okay, I thought I was like that girl.
00:08:17
Speaker
But that was like early, maybe like nine, 10 years old when I was like, working my first paycheck, I walked it, I worked in the mall and I worked that bitch right, you know, walked it right over to Foot Locker and put the Jordan 11 IEs on layaway. So that, you know, that Bring back layaway. Yeah. Oh my God. I put my little $20 down, like, bow.
00:08:38
Speaker
You know, and remember going back, yeah i going back, putting $20 down every paycheck and like six weeks later, I have my shoes. Got them. Yeah, i got them. But I was like, put them on in the store, walk out. It was like a very different time than, I mean...
00:08:52
Speaker
That had to be like 96, 97. 96, 97. um because I had Dante Ross on and he loves the IEs And so, I don't know. is that It was a shoe that did not really connect with me. I don't know why. I'm also not a big 11 person. Well, it's funny because I spun the block like and re-bought that shoe in San Diego at Rosewood. So, was like a... um Very surreal experience, you know?
00:09:17
Speaker
And I still have my first shoebox on lot of shoes, though. But I wasn't smart. And, you know, like, before 20, I was just like... We outside with them. Yeah. like I think, I think, look, shoes are made to be worn, you know, like if you don't wear them they just separate. Yeah. And I wear mine now, but it was like before then I wasn't like collecting sneakers. I just wore sneakers all the time. Yeah.
00:09:42
Speaker
ah I've always been curious about this. When does sneaker culture find you? um actually like I think like the collecting as aspect because my friends and I were all into sneakers so was like but we weren't um and we would read East Bay but we there wasn't like the we I wasn't on the message boards and like these things back then until actually through car culture because I used to build um JDM Japanese domestic cars What? Yeah.
00:10:10
Speaker
That is crazy. So I used to build cars. um Favorite, favorite car. Favorite Japanese import car. The EG9, which is what I had. Oh, snap. Maybe Ford or a grocery getter. Mama's car. What a B16 in that bitch. Damn. Turbo. like know um And a fucking roll cage and a Sparko and a baby Sparko for his Zion in the back. That's crazy. You just have them in the back while you're hitting the yeah you Fast and Furious out there. crazy In mine San Diego, we had a court we have quarter a quarter mile, like a legal racetrack. I mean, you only live life of a quarter mile.
00:10:45
Speaker
i mean i I mean, I love cars. So it was like yeah through car meetups where we would like meet up and drive through the mountains of Julian the early in the morning. Yeah. Canon carving and all that. Like, obviously, like Japanese culture with the cars is is's like a lot of the people out there are wearing like Japanese sneakers. right And they're they're a reading hype beast. And so um I got into it more like going to the meetups. And that's when it started like trading kicks and like going on ISS. Yeah. Female sneaker fiend. Yeah. your Shout out female sneaker fiend. remember i remember I found that page and I was like, nope, I cannot be on here. Yeah. sure I mean, first community for women. You know, like shout out to Lori and Jen twice and like all the people I know. met Jen twice in Countless Con. She's an OG. legend.
00:11:36
Speaker
I was like, can you get on my podcast? She was like, can't do it. She can't do it now. You know, the the brand voice is like, yeah, shut that down. That's why never went in house because it's like, you're not going to stop this.
00:11:47
Speaker
That's I mean, that's crazy. First, the car part. Also, my dream car is a Mitsubishi Evolution. Okay. I need to... I mean, I've heard nothing but bad things about it. They say that people should burn them down.
00:11:58
Speaker
I'll burn one. I just need to burn one down. Just give me one. And then a skyline after that. yeah I'll take a Nissan. I used to want a skyline so bad in an when I was like 21, 22. Crazy. And it's like, that's what they I'm like having this like ah identity you crisis now of like,
00:12:14
Speaker
What do you do with those things that like you love and you aspired for, it but now it's like I've kind of outgrown them at 44. Like, yeah, now if i I'm buying my son a car, like, but I'm not going to buy him one of these. Right.
00:12:25
Speaker
So. I mean, don't know. Zion could... but yeah I mean, seven. Yeah, I know. Seven wants to BMW. I'm like, well, you need a job. Best.
00:12:36
Speaker
like Sell some beats. Yeah. that's I mean, that's crazy. I did not. and Also, it was so like it's interesting because like there was a time, especially during the forums, where like Filipino people ah people like the the Filipino culture really took over sneakers for like a hot second. And <unk> I've been always very curious of like, how did that even happen?
Cultural Influences and Sneaker Culture
00:12:58
Speaker
But it's interesting because now you're talking about car culture and how car culture translated. I'm like, okay, now it's starting to make little, I'm bridging a little bit of the gaps that I've been asking the years of yeah to figure out. And like, I wouldn't be able to tell you because I'm like from San Diego, like a lot of Filipinos in San Diego. So I'm not Filipino, I'm Chawarro, but like,
00:13:16
Speaker
he hella Filipino people like where I come from. So it's like I couldn't tell you when that happened because they were always into sneakers and hip-hop and cars and everywhere I was, you know. i mean, that's crazy. that's That's crazy that like that culture in San Diego was so like thick of it too. But sneaker culture, not really. No, yeah. I would have to like meet girls at the mall, you know, in the parking lot we would be like trading shoes but or like buying off each other or whatever. But it wasn't like we didn't have a lot of meetups and Sneaker client, like Dunk Exchange back then, like rarely came. So yeah you would, you had to go to LA to like have culture. When I was camping out and shopping and stuff, it would be like Melrose and Fairfax. It wouldn't be in San Diego. You'd do the, you'd do the trip up. And then what was that like? Like,
00:14:01
Speaker
It's a two hour commute, so it's not bad. you just do You'd be like, alright, Thursday, we in there, or whatever drop date is. you go on the Yeah, go in the morning, or go in the night time and camp out all night, yeah either in the morning, cop your shoe, and drive home.
00:14:15
Speaker
any Any crazy stories from and then? I think the only like, I think not crazy camp out story, but I camped for the De La Soles and I'm huge De La Sol fan, like big backpack rap fan. Same, same. Just myself with that term. Rest in peace, doom. Yes. You know, big. it was like, I love De La and camped for the shoes, wore them in Girls Got Kicks, which was like the second year of my career.
00:14:43
Speaker
and then became friends with Paz on Sneaker Play. wow So he was like a moderator. like Back then, like the Nigel, they were really into the sneaker community. They were part of the community. yeah um And so he was like a moderator on the fucking sneaker forum. And I'm like, bro, what?
00:15:00
Speaker
And so we get to be friends. And I'm like, I'm a huge fan. like so embarrassing for like I'm like we're on the internet like okay and then he was he started following me because I worked at kicks on fire at the time and then he asked me like can you style me for Coachella and I'm like I am not a stylist but People think because you're into sneakers that like... Yeah. Yeah, that like you can like... Like Henry said, like, I don't trust your opinion. She can't get a fit off.
00:15:29
Speaker
Well, don't listen to me because I am not... Like, I'm not about the style. Like, the style is not my bag. Yeah. I thought I like sneakers and that's it. But... um He asked, like, could you do that? And I was like, okay. And he took me to Union and introduced me to ah Chris and Beth. And then we shopped there for him and put some looks together for Coachella. And yeah, he invited me to like a recording session when we started working on their next album.
00:15:52
Speaker
And then he asked to bring coffee a copy of Girls Got Kicks and he asked me to sign it for him. So he signed my box of De La's and I signed the book for him. And it was a very like full circle moment for me. That is amazing. Yeah, that is amazing. Oh, my God. He's cool as hell. Yeah. like For sure.
00:16:08
Speaker
I still have yet to meet. I remember when they did the, ah the when they just got their, the rights back to their, and they did that show in Webster Hall. Yeah. I remember i was to text Dante like, yo, can you get me in? But then he tweeted out.
00:16:22
Speaker
He was like, he was like. Don't you hate when people tweet that? Don't, don't hit me. I can't get you in. like He said, don't hit me day of. That's not Cypher. And I was like, guess I'm watching this on Twitch. yeah but Oh, well.
00:16:35
Speaker
but I mean, that's crazy. I would love to meet them. um I mean, yeah, I'm a big Daylaw fan. Like, to me, don't know. That's just like, I love Queens hip hop. So, like, I mean, them but they're being from Long Island and stuff, that's when they was considering Long Island part of Queens before they sectioned it off.
00:16:52
Speaker
But I think that, like, I mean, I'm a huge Tribe fan. So, like, all the all the Brand Nubian. ah Big Native Tongues fan. Native Tongues. That's what i'm trying to say. Native Tongues fan, like, Die hard, die hard.
00:17:04
Speaker
I hope you've been enjoying this week's episode with Jazz. If you are, please make sure you are liking, subscribing and leaving a comment if you're watching this on YouTube. And if you're listening to this, no video and you're on Spotify or Apple or any other audio platform that you're listening to this on, please leave a review and rate this episode five stars if you've been enjoying
Patreon Support and Hip-Hop Influences
00:17:25
Speaker
it. I hope you've been enjoying it.
00:17:26
Speaker
And of course, if you want to go the extra mile and get a shout out at the end of the episode, please, please, please join the Patreon at patreon.com slash myfirstkicks. We've got two tiers, $3 tier, $5 tier.
00:17:40
Speaker
If you would sign up, it goes a long way and you get a shout out at the end. I'm also planning to add extra content and all this extra stuff. So be sure to hit the Patreon. And of course, let's show them back right into the episode.
00:17:54
Speaker
How did like, how did like hip hop, how did New York like that, that sound find its way to you in San Diego? um my older i I had an older brother who passed and i was seven years older than me and he grew up in DC and so his mom was in from the East Coast. Well, I was born in Prince George's County because my dad's from there so and I grew up on the West Coast but he grew up on the East Coast and he put me on to GoGo Music and Nas. like Nas is my favorite rapper of all time. Nas is my favorite rapper all Seven's middle name is Nasir. Really? Yeah. So he's very like favorite rapper ever.
00:18:29
Speaker
So really common, like a bunch, you know, just like mob was a big mob fan. um So yeah, my brother, my older brother was like heavy into hip hop and would be sending me tapes, like cassette tapes in the mail.
00:18:45
Speaker
that's the uh that's how um that's how uh Stretch and Bobbito made it to the west coast i remember I watched that documentary and they were like yeah people were just ripping it off of it and mailing tapes across the across the states yeah my brother would record the radio for me and like send it over to me that's crazy so like from there how did how did you figure out like sneakers is what I wanted to do Well, I didn't know that then because I tell it's like these people have like the kids today have so easy because it's like this wasn't even like a career path and like that you could
Path to Writing and Sneaker Journalism
00:19:17
Speaker
fathom. Like when I was growing up, like there wasn't as much transparency into like, how the hell do you design sneakers? yeah
00:19:24
Speaker
And there weren't any like collaborators that weren't sports players. So that wasn't really like a thing to be aspiring to be. excuse me um I went to school because I wanted to be a writer I'd been a writer like I was published for the first time when I was eight so I've been yeah writing short stories poetry like spoken word I did like I was on tour before I before all this yeah you know doing poetry I was a bit like I loved writing um and so when i graduated college I thought like Oh, I'll write. I wanted to write as a kid at like Jane or Sassy magazine, but both of these magazines ended up closing by the time I like got out of college.
00:20:02
Speaker
So then I was like, well, I guess I'll to write it like Cosmo or Glamour or something. But those magazines didn't really speak to me. But I was like, fuck it. i work We're this far. Like, this is the only I'm not going to be I'm not going to write a novel. Yeah. So like, I guess I'll have to write it a magazine.
00:20:17
Speaker
um And then all print like I graduated 2006 print died like that year I was like, oh Okay. You and me had the same premonition. I i graduated college in 2008, maybe.
00:20:32
Speaker
And I went to school for print. And like, I remember working at Time Inc. Like, oh, yeah, all this stuff is just moving to digital. Yeah. I mean, thank God I didn't go to J school. So I was like, my God, like the whole thing would have been for nothing. Yeah. um And then I was like,
00:20:47
Speaker
Working in marketing at the Girl Scouts. So I've always done some type of like girls or women's focus work and or community based work. So I worked at the Girl Scouts as a marketing director there in L.A.
00:20:59
Speaker
um And one of my friends, Eric, he was like, oh, I know the founder of Kicks on Fire. Like they're looking for a new writer. I think like I'm going to connect you. And I was like. Okay.
00:21:10
Speaker
But I was like, where where would where would it live? Like, I'd be writing for, you know, writing what? And he hit con he hit me up on AOL Instant Messenger. and he's like, hey. And he sent me a picture of me that had been, like, viral on Tumblr. It was a picture of the De La Soles under my wedding dress because I'm divorced now, but I got married in the De La Soles.
00:21:33
Speaker
Excuse me. That's crazy. And so that picture like went Tumblr viral. So he's like, is this you? And I was like, yeah, that's me. And he was like, are you a writer? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, you really like sneakers? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, and you're a girl. And I'm like, yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
And he was like, do you want to write for, or do you want to blog about sneakers like on kicks on fire whatever? And I was like, what the hell is kicks on fire? Like, what is that?
00:22:00
Speaker
And I was like, oh and like what is the what is blogging? like i was like, what are you talking about? he was So he showed me and I was like, fuck yeah. And I'm like and you're going to pay me? yeah Excuse me. I was like, you're going to pay me to do this? I do this shit for free with my friends like every day. yeah I'm writing on MySpace and my little notes. So I'm like, yeah, I do this like for free every day. Like, absolutely.
00:22:21
Speaker
You want me to research the sneakers coming out and write about them on the internet? Got you. Got you. So, Seven was a newborn, and so I would be like having Seven right here and like writing with him like at the desk, like over, you know, like doing this on the computer.
00:22:37
Speaker
So when I started in 2007, but yeah, that's how it found me. That's crazy. And I didn't even know Kicks on I thought you were like one of the founding members of Kicks on Fire.
00:22:49
Speaker
They had Khan. So Khan, who was is the founder of Kicks on Fire, he started it when he was 16. Mm-hmm. And he had like a rap like forum before that.
00:23:02
Speaker
And he basically like liquidated that liquid did that Start Like This Kicks um blog. yeah And so at that time, it was in the Complex Network. So was Nice Kicks at the time. So Matt was like my biggest competitor. So Khan ran... He was like the founder, but I really ran the business for him. like ah Well, since I arrived. And I think he was...
00:23:23
Speaker
He's launched maybe like four years before I got there, but I was there 10 years. And so I ran his business, you know, most of that time. So I started as a junior copywriter and then I did all the hiring for him. So I, you know, brought in the staff yeah and then opened up the video portion with Jock. We brought Jock in to do that.
00:23:40
Speaker
um And then I left as the director of operations. So. Damn, you really, you carved your way. Yeah, but i it was like something I was doing for fun. i think that's like what people don't really understand is like i didn't I didn't have this grand scheme plan. It was like something I was doing for fun at night, yeah you know, and then I became a single mom it was like, okay, you got to do this for real now.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah. That, I mean, hey, out of, you created opportunity out of necessity too. No, and it became a time to, don't remember who I was telling this to the other day, but it was like, I didn't want to be working at Bank of America and a smooth walk in and be at the fucking teller and be like, didn't you used to be that girl that worked at Kicks on Fire? And I had to be like,
00:24:23
Speaker
ah You know, yeah I'm like, yeah, that is like my night. That was my nightmare. So I'm like, yeah I have to flip this up and figure out what I'm a parlay this in into next. That's why I tell the, you know, the girls like all the time, like you're not going to be unboxing shoes forever. Like you need to think about what are you going to like lay this up into from here? Like even if you do this for 10 years, like what are you going to try to do after this? Yeah.
00:24:46
Speaker
I mean, that's interesting, too, because like and I've had like conversations about mentorship and you don't really. ah ah Trayvon has a thing where it's like you don't really you don't you don't really pick your mentors, your mentors.
00:25:01
Speaker
You just you just you just it's ah it's a good. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a I think. Yeah. You have to find the cohesion. Like, you know, you can't just be like, sure, I'll mentor you. Because like, what if you don't vibe? What if you don't get along? What if you don't believe in this person? Yeah. I think that's like the biggest thing is like there have been times where I've said no, but it's like it's because I personally don't see it, you know, and not to say it's not going to happen, but like I need to be able to see it.
00:25:29
Speaker
Right, yeah. Which is that very interesting, too, because, like, I mean, the especially the... I feel like the theme this year, especially for me, is, like, bet on yourself. And so, you know, recently we saw Salehi, you know, break off and bet himself. and And I think that, like...
00:25:44
Speaker
that has, i think that's like the hardest thing to do. it's Oh yeah. Well, it depends on like the situation too. I've had to bet at myself like this whole time. So it's like a lot of times it a lot easier than some other times. But one of the harder times was like when I started my business, true to the size. Like yeah right when I started the business, it wasn't like starting it, but excuse me.
00:26:07
Speaker
um When I started it, like around that same time, a recruiter reached out to me and they wanted to like they put me in like an interview pool for a director position at Jordan Britain. And it was in creative. And I was like, oh yeah, like I'm down. But they're like, you'd have to move to Portland, this and that. But it was beautiful pay like and like everything that I would want to do. like you know Your dream job as a kid, right? And like, i'm like okay, like I would be down to do that. But...
00:26:33
Speaker
doing that would mean like I'm not gonna open this business and beyond that, you know, similar like we just talked about, Jen, once you go in at that level, like and you're not in the field anymore. Like I'm not sitting down with you. I'm not sitting down with Spoon, like whoever else, like it's is quiet. Yeah, you can't take nobody under you. No, it's quiet for that. And I'm like, yeah, at this point in my career, it's not worth it for me. So and was like, I'm just gonna remove myself from that situation and bet on myself so I can work with everybody if I want to.
00:27:02
Speaker
and stay in the field and be able to talk my shit if I want to, wherever I want to yeah and however I want to. Yeah. Cause I paid myself for sure. ah when When, so like between kicks on fire and starting a true to size. like Oh God. Um, I left kicks on fire in 2015, 14 or 15.
00:27:22
Speaker
Um, Seth Garrisberg, who was Mark Echo's first partner in complex, um, He knew who I was. And so once I was out here with Reebok and Conor McGregor at the time, and they asked me, said that like they asked me to come into the office.
New York Adventures and Professional Growth
00:27:40
Speaker
um And he was he had bought Slam Hype, Slam X Hype at the time. yeah And then he bought 10% of a bunch of like Heritage and New York brands, 40 Ounce, Rocksmith, um Hell's Bells. I can't remember. A Life. I can't remember who else there. this is the collective? At the collective, yeah.
00:27:58
Speaker
So I had a Christianion. So I know a lot of. Yeah. yeah So um Seth asked me to come in because he knew me from kicks on fire. And like we had just launched our sneaker calendar at that time. and it was like one of the more thorough calendars before like that became a thing.
00:28:14
Speaker
um And so he was like, OK, like you work on this, this, this and this. And I was like, yeah. And then he brought me into this boardroom with like 10 people in there. And I was like, what the hell is going on? And I'm in jean shorts and like a halter top. And I'm like, is it like, are we in meeting? Like, I was so confused.
00:28:32
Speaker
And so he's sitting like this at the table and then he's like, oh, well, what do you think about this? Like he shows me like his landing page and I'm like, that shit's trash. Yeah. And he's like well, what do you think about this video? And he plays this video. And I'm like, it's boring. And he's like, well, what do you think about this? And I'm like, that's not the way you should do it. And he's like, what do you think about these designs? I'm like, those are corny.
00:28:51
Speaker
And so he's like, how much do you make it kicks on fire? And it was an embarrassing low amount because it was like, you know, it was like my side thing. And so I was like, um I'm not comfortable talking about that. Yeah.
00:29:04
Speaker
and then And then he's like, well, write it down. or He was like, I want you to write down what it would cost for you to come work for me. And I was like, oh, that's never happening. I was like, I'm not moving to New York. I never imagined that this would be a thing. So I was like, I'm not moving to New York. like I'm not coming to work here. i don't even know you. like you know And he was like, just write it down.
00:29:26
Speaker
And so I wrote down like 105, think. And so... um He was like, oh yeah, we could do that. And i was like, what the hell? And so I left and I was like, we'll talk about it. And so he called me for 10 days, like straight every day. Yeah.
00:29:41
Speaker
Like, what do you think? could I kept saying no. And it wasn't like a trying to bargain with him. It was a firm no. Like, yeah no, you're crazy. I'm not fucking moving my kids to New York. I had just been divorced. So I'm like, I need my family. My sister was living with me. I'm like, I can't.
00:29:58
Speaker
This is too much for me right now. So it was more of like a dis like a disbelief in life. I kept saying no, but every day he kept offering me something more. And so it ended up being a $20,000 relocation package that he gave me.
00:30:14
Speaker
He put my kids in summer camp so that I could come for the summer and just try to live here by myself because that was my big concern. Uh-huh. I don't even know if I can do it. Like, yeah let alone like the the the structure you yeah had built. Yeah. And like, I come from the valley like this, you know, I lived and I moved to Brooklyn. and Yeah. Like when I first moved here. So I was like, this is like a whole different thing. i don't even know if I can do it, let alone my kids. So let me come from the summer first and try it out. So he put my kids in summer camp and then he gave me like an Airbnb allowance to come for the summertime.
00:30:45
Speaker
Um, um And then he gave me like an extra $10,000 to furnish my crib and to put like the deposit down and pay my broker fee. Cause we don't do that in California. We don't. It's only here. Yeah. So it was like, Oh, it's going to cost me $14,000 to move into an apartment. What the hell? Like, so he paid for all of that.
00:31:06
Speaker
And so that allowed me to kind of like start my life on this side um at a really like critical time in my life too. yeah And so I came here and I lived in Brooklyn for a few months and this was like in 2015, yeah. um And then he lived in Inglewood and he um is Jewish, and so he but he didn't work from, like, Friday night, or he, you know, didn't use electricity yeah from Friday night and then all day Saturday. Yeah, yeah Sabbath? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:31:36
Speaker
And so... i don't know the word. I'm trying to be correct here. I think it is. I got it. All right, cool. All right, cool. So he was like, oh, I live in Inglewood. Like you should move to Edgewater because it's like very close and I don't go to work on Fridays because our office was on in 38th and 10th in the big yellow DHL building.
00:31:59
Speaker
And so he was like, um you can take the ferry and walk to work. And then on Fridays, we can work at my house. And I was like, OK, OK. So on Fridays, we would work at his house with these big sheets of paper, like as big as a table and yeah pencils.
00:32:11
Speaker
And we would be like scribbling and making these notes all over the paper. And then he would photograph them and then like print out like for everybody, like all the notes that were on the sheet. That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, i he taught me a lot about work ethic. And when I took the job, too, um he told me, like, everybody that's, like, somebody right now, like, you know, did this job for a year before they went out and did their own thing.
00:32:38
Speaker
And I was, like, interesting. So he told me Matt from Nice Kicks had worked for him, Vashti. So I just hit hit them all up because I knew them. And I'm, like, yo, what's good with Seth? Like, what was it like? And they all told me the same thing, like...
00:32:50
Speaker
He's intense as as fuck. like It's gonna be a struggle, like but it'll be transformative. And it was. like I worked for him for a year, and then they went bankrupt like the year after they brought me here. So I was like, oh fuck, what am I gonna now?
00:33:05
Speaker
But um it taught me a lot. There were times I had to sleep in that office. I produced my first events on those on that rooftop. Oh, crazy. Yeah, like so it was like a good intro intro for me to be in the city, too. That sounds like a crash course.
00:33:19
Speaker
It was. and the and And like so it seems like like learning that stuff on the on the job, right? Like did that propel you to be like, you know, let me let me start my own thing. Is there um a pivotal moment where you're like, this is missing in between i launched the real friends cap?
Business Challenges and Entrepreneurial Ventures
00:33:38
Speaker
No. Oh, so that's fire.
00:33:42
Speaker
oh so as fire Yeah, so me and my ex-boyfriend did this cap. um And we had three colorways and we released it.
00:33:54
Speaker
And um we did like $150,000 in caps in like two months. And we were in four magazines that summer and just like shit started being sold out all the time.
00:34:05
Speaker
And then PacSun ripped us off and started selling it in the PacSun. They made t-shirts and everything. But a couple boutiques like in LA had picked it up and they were selling it for us. And so it was like I was like, okay. like I could probably...
00:34:20
Speaker
do this. And then I was like, I hate selling products. Like I literally cannot stand it. Like be, you know, doing the shoe is a different experience, but this like owning the brand and worrying about the supply, like all this, like, yeah i don't want to do this. I can't, this is not for me.
00:34:36
Speaker
So yeah. So that was my little interim. Yeah. That's the, the first devil. Yeah. And then I was, after that, I was like, I need to get a real job. Like I can't be dependent on, do niggas like my hat this month or not? Like, yeah. Like, I don't really give a fuck if you like my cap anymore. Like, I need to get a real job.
00:34:53
Speaker
And so I started um applying at different edits at publications. And I have like 3,000 bylines with kicks kicks on fire at this time. yeah And I could not get a job in the editorial there. People were like, oh, you don't have enough experience telling women's stories.
00:35:09
Speaker
Which was crazy to me because I worked in sneakers. So they're like, yeah, basically like go to men's fitness or something. go Like you can't, you know, you don't have enough experience tell like women's stories. So I was like, fuck it.
00:35:20
Speaker
um I'll go into the agency space. So, yeah. I interviewed at an agency called Crush and Lovely and they were like a tech studio and they were like, how do you find your projects? And I was like, in my email. And they were like, what do you mean? I'm like, people come to me and ask me to do stuff, but I don't have a team to execute.
00:35:37
Speaker
And he was, the founder was like, if we gave you a team, like, would you come, would you bring the projects here? And I was like, yeah, of course. So they brought me in and then they created an offering, like a kind of experiential, as we were calling it back then, offering um for a production and app builds and stuff like that. And so um ah started an offering there, which after the first year, he was like,
00:36:02
Speaker
hey, I think you should be about everything that you talk about and you talk about equity and ownership. And so we want to like, you know, take this out of incubation basically and let you, we want to like partner with you in launching this business. And so they helped me launch um True to Size and then I bought them out like two years into the business. So I've been at it like five years now, I think.
00:36:24
Speaker
how How did that feel to be like, I'm going to buy you out? I mean, it kind of like came at a time where they were like, yeah, you're going to do it by yourself. You know, they were like, I was really, we were kind of not working together a lot, but a lot of our services were still together. So they were like, yeah, we're going to clean up the paperwork you're going be on your own. And I'm like, okay, perfect. Like, yeah, I'm fine with that.
00:36:47
Speaker
that i mean it's interesting too because like that is just i mean that is just amazing story first of all because not many people get that opportunity as well where just like you know hey i'm bringing this to you and usually it's it's always like i feel like it's always like a bad story after that it's just like yeah and then they just took all my business yeah it never works out yeah yeah so it's just like you know more power to you to be able to be like Nah, we're to break off and and do your own thing. Because like, and and then being also like, fly.
00:37:19
Speaker
Well, to be fair, like it was three white boys who worked, who played in a jazz band together. And they got into tech because they built their own website for their band. And then they ended up being better at building web websites than they were musicians. So they started business. But I think they like understood a lot, like you know being like jazz music yeah musicians and being around black culture, I think they like understood more, more empathetic to my story. Hey, more power. that Because that's crazy. You're never going to hear that. You're never going to hear, like, yeah, you know, my bosses were like in a jazz band. Yeah. And they really like black people.
00:37:55
Speaker
So yeah, it's it's it's interesting. And then like, I mean, I'm always curious of just like, how do you find the people that you find? Because like, I think you're really intentional. You're really as intentional. You're really intentional with like, who you talk to, who you give your time to.
00:38:11
Speaker
And I i mean, it's same to like, I always, I always treat like who my guests are like, I treat it like I'm like an A&R. And so like, I feel like I want to know, like, what's your process? Because I feel like everybody that you've worked with have always been like, oh, you know, these are my core values. And like, it feels like a lot of the people that you really connect with have the same core values. So I'm like, how do you find that?
00:38:38
Speaker
on the internet like you know being on social media and just sitting back and doing a lot of observing like not only of the person but like who that person is associating with like if that person's arguing with motherfuckers online or not or like shading somebody on their story like I don't you know I don't like I don't want to be involved in the messy stuff especially at this big age you know it's not good for business either And, you know, content creation checks a lot different than agency checks. So I'm just not trying to lose that type of business on some dumb shit because you don't like me because I didn't put you on my story or didn't.
00:39:13
Speaker
I think the like, oh, I'm a gatekeeper because I don't want to give you an opportunity in my business. Well, they're my dollars. yeah Like I can gatekeep my wallet if I want to. Like, so Because your name is, at the end of the people are going to be like, oh, you're associated with jazz. Well, I think that's that what people don't understand is like, you come into my shop, the business comes in on my name. So like, they expect a level of excellence that is me. Not like, they don't care about you being new to this. Like, it's going to be me. And...
00:39:42
Speaker
i co I co-sign that and I allow that to happen and that's not a good look for me. no yeah So yeah, I you know find a lot of people on the internet. When I was early in my career, when I'd hire at Kicks on Fire, I would hire from Twitter because I had a firm belief that like many people, you know a lot of we hired photographers and writers, so it was like,
00:40:00
Speaker
Many people all over the world are good at this. Like, you don't have to be in New York or l L.A., right? i was like, there's a lot of people in these small little towns that are good photographers, good writers, and they deserve an opportunity to have their out work amplified. Yeah. that's I mean...
00:40:15
Speaker
hey That's how I found Alexander John. yeah So when I so met Alexander John, he used to participate and we would have these like separate days on Twitter and Instagram that would honor separate things.
Twitter Dynamics and Sneaker Design
00:40:29
Speaker
So it was like ah Tuesdays, I can't remember, would be SBology. I think they would talk about Nike SB and the stories behind them um because that was like not a big thing. People were only buying and talk about Jordans at that time.
00:40:42
Speaker
um And then, well, that Thursday, maybe Tuesday, we would do chicks on fire. So we would do girls all day. But like we were focused on like street wear girls, not the girls that were like in bathing suits with their boyfriend's shoes on, which was very popular at that time. So I was like intentionally searching for women yeah at the time.
00:41:01
Speaker
And we would feature them on Tuesdays and then Thursdays. We would talk about SBs. And Sundays we would talk about art. And so it's like sneaker art. like So not customs necessarily, unless we, like, mache or something was, like, painting. It's on them, but more like freehand profit and, like, the sneaker masks.
00:41:18
Speaker
Shout out. Shout out freehand profit. I love him. That's an old-time front of mine, too. So... um I miss those days. I mean, I wasn't on there heavy during those times, but I used to hear about it. Like, I mean, even when Russ, when I had Russ on here, he was telling me about how Gilbert Arenas would go on there and just be like, hey, I'm a size 13. Gil is a friend of mine, too, from back then. Like, I know all those guys from being like actual readers of the sneaker blogs and members of the community.
00:41:45
Speaker
um They were really into it. It's it's that's why it's funny, because, like, I mean, you're in the space yesterday and people were talking about, oh, yeah, people don't really check sneaker Twitter anymore and stuff like that. was like, I mean, because there was a reason to come on before yeah and it was really sneaker oriented. And it wasn't like, hey, we're going to go, you know, you shouldn't be showing toes or something like that, you know, like and it's like.
00:42:10
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not going to go on this rant about it. but like i just I saw somebody the other day say, like okay, great you got seated and you showed us excuse me great, you got seated and you showed us the shoes, but like what else are you going to do with them? and I'm like, what else were they supposed to do with them? like Don't y'all get on here and post fucking got them screenshots all morning on Saturday? like Is that not any different like than somebody posting their shoes that they got? It's very confusing to me.
00:42:40
Speaker
It's also weird for me because you know I've been seated for 20 years. like To be hearing these conversations now is like, you never used to hear this stuff when I was coming up in this business ever. I, I, you know, i hit the congrats and I just move on, but I, I don't understand it. And I don't understand why people funnel, like they get really like tunnel vision on this stuff too, where it's just like, like, just move on. I think, I think it's time to be like, yo, we can do more with this, you know, but I definitely want to jump into that bag. Oh God. Yeah.
00:43:13
Speaker
Do you have the first shoe that you made i worked on? Yeah.
00:43:21
Speaker
I think these are the first shoes I worked on. The Kill Bill's. Kill Bill kiddos. Yep. You want them? know Yeah, yeah. So, Wex, when he was at Adidas, he would bring me in to do a lot of, like, influencer design agreement um engagements. And so this one was when they launched the Shelto for my Adidas. Uh-huh.
00:43:43
Speaker
And they needed like sample colorways, you know, if you go on to like the ID, whatever, and it's like, oh, here's some different colorways already prearranged for you. So I would do work on those, like the ones that were already set. So this was the first one i did.
00:43:58
Speaker
um And I'm a huge like Beatrix Kiddo fan, especially like the way my life has gone. um So they say Kiddo. They actually, I wanted them to say Crazy 88 here. Ooh, yeah.
00:44:10
Speaker
Yeah, licensing was like, yeah, no, I don't think so, baby girl. You only get away with a little bit of this. I was like, all right, we'll throw Kiddo on there and see what happens. So yeah, these are the first shoots that I worked on.
00:44:21
Speaker
No, yeah, those are so dope. I think that the, like, the the opportunity, like, how did you, like, what, I know there's, I mean, people now, it's like, there's a whole school, we we went to Pencil about it, but it's just like, was this just you being like, I want to just, um I have this idea, like, let's throw it on this? Yeah, know they they give you they gave us all the stuff flight that you would had the option to do so that you could make the sample one.
00:44:46
Speaker
um But a lot of those opportunities came about because i was in media. yeah And just like I you know i think Mr. In Loved, was on his post talking about it, is like, Seating used, and these experiences used to be reserved for like press, media, PR. Like there was no influencers back then. So it was like, okay, well, they would come to me because I was working in the press and I could do this experience and and I would talk about it on Kicks on Fire. And that was the purpose of like bringing me to this special moment or, you know, having me design these things or whatever. I mean, look, this is what I'm trying to do with this. i think i think hopefully I'm ushering that back where it's just like, you know, I go to these things, I get to talk about the experience and um because I feel like that's such a lost art right now. Everybody just turn it into 30 second reels.
00:45:33
Speaker
And it's like, but you don't really get to experience it. Yeah. And you don't remember it Yeah, for sure. What we got next? The second pair I worked on also for adidas though when they did the ZX Flux. So this pattern, um my ex-brother-in-law painted this on my skateboard. And so this is a picture of my skateboard.
00:45:56
Speaker
And then basically they laid photos on top of the ZX Flux. And so when I did this one, um they had a art exhibit in Soho where they showcased all those DX flexes from the influencers, quote unquote, that designed them.
00:46:13
Speaker
wow So these were on display. And so, yeah. First of all, you skated? Yeah. use this escape I'm from San Diego. I came up in like skating and skate shoes, Etnies, Osiris, DVS.
00:46:25
Speaker
These are dope. i love the I love the connection. Yep.
00:46:31
Speaker
So that was the second pair I worked on. And then.
00:46:37
Speaker
Oh, we got the legendary. My shoe. You got your shoe. My shoe. A big one. I bought a DS pair.
00:46:47
Speaker
These are so gorgeous. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, gotta show the insole too. Yep. Ugh.
00:46:57
Speaker
A woman did that. yeah It's a ladder to the younger women in sneakers. Yeah. That's so... like Make sure y'all watch that docuseries because it's going to make you want this shoe as well. Thank you. you know like It's such a clean shoe too. almost wore my like oh I didn't even notice it's part of the bag. It's a man's world crossed out. out yeah And then it blessed.
00:47:22
Speaker
I don't know if it's this window. Yeah, this one. Instead of Reebok, they say blessed. Oh, sick. I think this one is the one. This one is the one. okay i looks like That's awesome.
00:47:37
Speaker
These feel great, too. Thank you. You crushed it. think a lot of people, and I know Shmi talks about this a lot a lot online, but they don't think about the cost of the shoe and like how it's played into the different materials and stuff. So we went through like five samples because it was really important for me to do Like a genderless shoe as a woman yeah that was um like more like you could take it up or down, wear it to work or wear it, you know, outside, whatever.
00:48:06
Speaker
And that also was like had great materials, but I wanted my shoe to land like at $100. And I didn't because as a single mom, I would be spending $1,000 on a regular Saturday for me and my two kids. Like it's crazy. So i was like, yeah, I'm not...
00:48:21
Speaker
I don't think that's right. i don't like where the industry is now. I want my shoe to land here. But to also have wax laces and really great leather. So we use three different types of leather.
00:48:32
Speaker
But the tongue, yeah. and the And then this is the difference. So... We went through multiple samplings I could like test the materials and make sure they felt good. And I wore it for a long time so I could see like how it would age and how it felt like you broke it in.
00:48:49
Speaker
But it was really important for me to work on like the... Especially when like I came up like everything was like pink and purple or sparkly. that's what's like. I just want to do like an earth tone shoe for women and for everybody. But specifically like a woman designing one um and have it available in the market.
00:49:07
Speaker
And then when we went through development, um they wanted me to drop like the women's club seat. And I was like, no, like I want it to be the men's yeah or the unisex. And they were like, why? And I was like, because i have 150 pairs of shoes and maybe two of them say women's size eight.
00:49:23
Speaker
Like the natural shopping experience, unfortunately, for a lot of women is to buy a six, like their boy's size. and I want them to have that same experience. And I want my kids to be able to wear the shoes is as well.
00:49:36
Speaker
and um And to be able to fit them. And they were like, oh, we never thought about that. So it was like, that taught me that a lot of times, even though because we know it as consumers, you expect people in the brand to know that these are like problems. It's like, no, a lot of times I've been there and they're just like,
00:49:52
Speaker
What? never thought about that. And I'm like, yeah. It's like common sense. Yeah, it really is like common sense. so Yeah. but like Did that process really like open your eyes on like what you could do? and and like like what Because like one of my biggest things from taking like seeing your your journey and stuff like that is so much is unknown about this process. Mm-hmm.
00:50:14
Speaker
the insight to get to that port. yeah everybody Everybody's thinks like they just get this. like yeah You just draw a sneaker and bam. you know like I'm good now. I can make this. And so I think this has like like been my big like goal with this too is like kind of like like unveiling the middle part because A lot of people just aren't critical of the end piece.
00:50:34
Speaker
Like, I mean, I say this a lot. Like Tyler, Tyler Crater always says it'll take me two years to make a song. It'll take you 10 minutes to tear it apart. yeah And so, you know, you you have spent so much time making this show and, you know, the docuseries, you gifted it to Lena Waithe. Like,
00:50:52
Speaker
Like a lot of these things you've done super intentional. And so like ah that process where you saw it from beginning to end, like how much of that really inspired you to be like a lot of people need to see that so they can be part of that.
00:51:07
Speaker
um even before, I think my whole career has like inspired me to be like, hello, you guys. like There's a lot of opportunities in this space for us, but like you really need to do your reading and figure out, like you can't just do it all. like yeah you know They see, especially now, like people see like a JTips and they're like, yeah, i I want to do that, but it's like,
00:51:27
Speaker
Yeah, he's he's able to do that because he was J-Tips. You have to become something first. like um But yeah, I think everything in my career has taught me. like you know Going to brand parties when I was like at Kicks on Fire, when I first started going to like these brand engagements, I would be like,
00:51:45
Speaker
I didn't even know all this was going on.
Sneaker Design Process and Industry Roles
00:51:47
Speaker
aren Like, I've been asleep. Like, they're flying me to, you know, Chicago to go shopping and da-da-da-da-da. It's like, I didn't even know people was doing this. Like, this is where I need to be right here. This is my sweet spot.
00:51:59
Speaker
But, um, going to those parties also taught me that, like, all those experiences were the same. Like, oh, there's a DJ, there's a signature cocktail, you're going gifted the shoe. And a lot back then, they didn't even have the shoe for me on my side. So they would gift me some like bullshit women's package. So I'm not even getting like the product or like experiencing it or anything. right yeah um And so it was like, yeah, I could do this a lot better. Like I have a lot better ideas like when it comes to these product launches. And that was really was like, okay, I need to figure out how to get from here to there.
00:52:30
Speaker
like And I figured out it was like being in the agency space. And so um i pit I would like when I first came into Crush & Lovely, I started pitching my friends who would book, you know, like book me when I was at Kicks on Fire or would like bring me out to events.
00:52:45
Speaker
And so the PR girl for Puma from years before, she was at New Balance and she was working in marketing. And she like gave me my first project, which was New Balance's first grade A. South by Southwest with Raekwon.
00:52:59
Speaker
Crazy. Yeah, it was it was crazy. It was like, I got to get all my dreams off. I was like, $250,000? Absolutely. They were like, we want a private plane. I was like, got you. They were like, we want to design the hotel rooms in the boutique.
00:53:11
Speaker
Got you. We want to design the stores too. I'm like, got you. So I was just like, it was dream project, like right out the gate. Yeah. So it taught, you know, and that kind of taught me a lot of like, oh, my gosh, like there's 10 people working on this and like four designers and everybody's trying to make flyers for such like this what you need to be doing. Like you need to be in here and making $85 an hour, like selling your design services or whatever, you know, like this is what you need to be doing, producing events. And.
00:53:41
Speaker
Um, but they were so, you know, people are so focused specifically, I think on like sneaker Twitter is like, they think this is the only way like content creation or when they speak about the industry, it's like, they only speak about the industry through the lens of like being Nigel or content creation. And it's like, there's so much out there a ton and and a lot longer dollars than doing that. A lot more stable dollars too than this. So, um,
00:54:07
Speaker
Yeah, that that kind of, you know, definitely taught me. But when I, so when I got the shoe is because I pitched Rewalk and I was pitching strategy. Like I was trying to pitch in different ways. Like, okay, I'll just pitch the creative strategy as like somebody that comes from the community and like has seen, you know, a lot of things in women's like I'll pitch strategy, but like somebody else can produce it.
00:54:29
Speaker
And so I would just pitch the beginning piece. um And so Rebot brought me in to do like a strategic consultation with their retail department in like, how can we redesign a retail space that speaks more authentically to everybody? Because I'm like, we do not want a 602. Like, I don't want to leave my friends who are multi-gender, you know, to go shop by myself at 602. Right.
00:54:54
Speaker
I just want my experience to be better in the existing store. Like, is is that too much to ask? So um I worked with Reebok and a bunch of their directors on retail experience, like what their core message was, how it shows up in the store.
00:55:11
Speaker
And that is what led me to the shoe. So being in the, strategic like having a strategic partnership with them um through the agency, they were, like we were sitting down having a conversation and they were like, you know what you should do a pack and i was like no like but life because i never was like oh i want my own shoe yeah you know i i was never like that type of sneaker head but yeah they were like you should do a pack and i was like no like i don't think that's the answer and you also don't want to be like hey here's the strategy and the strategy is me yeah you know so it's like yeah i don't want to yeah the farthest thing you want to be like eventually get like Like you do not want to just jump in there. will sell your sneakers. I got it. On the first meeting. And I was like, no, no, no, no. no no
00:55:54
Speaker
And then the archivist, Erin, at the time, she was like, i want to bring you out a bunch of women's products. So she brought me out the Jazzercise stuff. And like yeah she brought out all the Iverson stuff for me because i'm a huge AI fan.
00:56:07
Speaker
And so she was like, don't you want to be part of this legacy? And when I saw the iris and stuff and then Shaq, I was like, okay, like unexpected, disruptive, like, yeah, like if I was going to go with a brand, this would be the one that I felt closest at heart to. Mm-hmm.
00:56:22
Speaker
um and But I was like, I don't want to do a whole pack. like So I think it'd be better if you allow me to bring other women who are like me who work in the business but like aren't content creators. yeah And um we can showcase like different ways to participate in sneaker culture as a career as opposed to like an influencer. yeah And they were like, okay, we like that. And so they already had the It's a Man's World inline collection coming out, which was like an all-white pair of... like All the shoes that we did, but they were all white takedowns. yeah
00:56:54
Speaker
And that inline pack was at Foot Locker and DTLR, I think, and like you know like re foot sites, et cetera. these The collab packs were only available at Reebok.com.
00:57:06
Speaker
So we each did a different shoe, and they let us pick like what we wanted to do. um So they weren't like... Oh, you have to do this, which in this process I knew already from interviewing designers, like a lot of times that is how it is. It's like, no, you can, we want you, but like you have to use one of these three bullshit ass models that nobody wants to wear. Exactly. like yeah They like, we need to sell these. Yeah. So this is what's in our program. We're bringing you in now, but two years ago we decided that this was going to be the shoe of the moment. So yeah if you want to work with us, you're going to do this.
00:57:36
Speaker
My experience was not like that. And I had a lot of control over it because it was important for me to produce the, like, to work with the, with the PLM to produce the actual story of it.
00:57:49
Speaker
Um, And to be like on the talent side of it. And so behind the scenes, one of the things was like, well, if I agree to do this, you're going to give me a woman of color designer yeah on it to do all the shoes. Like she's going work specifically with us. And they did shout out Alejandra.
00:58:05
Speaker
um not Um, and she did all of our shoes for us. Um, and when it came to the design, once we picked the silhouette, they sent us like, um,
00:58:16
Speaker
papers, you know, like blank, like coloring sheets basically of the shoe. And then they said like, put together as many pages as you want of a mood board. And like, they, um, hosted us for like four days at Reebok.
00:58:30
Speaker
Um, in Boston, we went there all together and, sat with Alejandro like one one at a time and like went through our mood boards and um then after we left she kind of emailed us like did what she had come up with basically from our mood boards and from what we had kind of the notes we gave and then we went back and forth from there as far as designing and then sampling. That's crazy. Yeah.
00:58:52
Speaker
Look. My mood board was 25 pages long. I was like, yeah, I'm a sicko. You were like, I got an idea. yeah like everything like every I dumped everything in my whole life the mood board. I was like, yeah.
00:59:05
Speaker
See, this is a very long process. yeah that's like if People take it so for granted. like I know when I when i went to Portland, like I was seeing stuff too. And I was just like, yeah, this is...
00:59:16
Speaker
Like getting that actual insight when you when you are, i guess, I mean, i i I consider myself working within this like, you know, ah so much of it goes unseen. Yeah.
00:59:28
Speaker
But so much of it should be told because. There's like, that's the only way you can inspire the next designer. thats the only way you can inspire the next person that's like marketing the next, like these small little roles that lead to these big in ah moments that we get to see and experience and and be part of. and And so like so many people want to get experience the moment without actually like finding that you can actually be part of it. yeah And it's like, I mean, I hope when people hear that, they feel inspired to be like, you know what?
00:59:59
Speaker
Let me start writing some stuff. or well you not like you know like Just trying to figure out a way. And it's like a different time now. So i like I'm really telling the girls, like you can't just want to be talking about women in sneakers. You need to niche it down. like Who is your girl yeah that you're talking to?
01:00:14
Speaker
Because yeah we all want to talk to women in sneakers today. right And so I think like my you know at the time, it was like I was speaking for women and specifically speaking for women of color. Yeah.
01:00:25
Speaker
Excuse me. And I think that like that became like the archetype, right? Of like what my story was. And I think that is a lane, but there are so many other lanes because it's a competitive field out there, unfortunately, in the space. do you Did you experience a lot of backlash or backlash? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
01:00:42
Speaker
Like people were not... running with you because of that? Punch from TDE was like one of the first people tell me on the phone, sis, you gotta chill the fuck out. yeah and you're What you're saying is not wrong, but the people that need to hear it, they're not listening to you because you just sound angry.
01:00:59
Speaker
and That taught me a lot. like okay like I have to speak in a way that these white men in this office are going to like receive it and be able to hear me and understand it because they just see me throwing a attention a temper tantrum right now. interesting that i mean that's and then that's a tough pill to swallow to be honest too like yeah but i need like i i'm real as fuck like that with people too so it's like i need you to talk to me like that like just be direct and tell me straight up what the problem is you know and i know that about i knew that especially in my early 20s about my mouth like that it's it can be flagrant at times so i need to be chill where where'd you learn that from
01:01:35
Speaker
maybe my single mom, I don't know.
Mentorship and Publishing in Sneaker Culture
01:01:37
Speaker
And my dad is a Panther. Like, so it's like, yeah, I don't, this is who I always been. And like, it's not going to stop now. you know, I think that's, we need more of that and to be honest. Like, you know, but it's also just like, my big thing is just like,
01:01:52
Speaker
It's a two way street, you know, and like you said, you need people that also can get through to you, too. Like um there's a lot of people that like you'll come across and they'll just be like my way or the highway type of people. yeah I'm just like, nah, there's two lanes on the highway. You know, you should be able to be receptive. Well, my shop, there's one lane.
01:02:09
Speaker
Just to be clear. Yeah. um But it's just like is is it's super interesting. Like, you know, your your journey is super interesting. um The other thing I think I want to talk about with the pack, the big a bigger lesson that it taught me that I think a lot of people don't really pay attention to you or why I'm so very particular and intentional, as you said, about like where I show up, who I'm talking to, the conversations I'm involved in.
01:02:34
Speaker
um when they allowed me to bring in, like, to choose the girls that would be in the pack with me, i brought in Distorted because that was, she's, like, one of the first girls I ever mentored, like, I found on the internet and then, like, reached out to her and really, like, kind of tried to help her along the way, knowing her for forever. And so I was like, I want her in the pack with me. Like, I thought it would be a good opportunity for me to give her, but a good thing for us to do together.
01:02:57
Speaker
And they were like, yeah, that's cool. Like, we're down. But when they first said okay and we were getting ready to sign her into the pack, like, she went crazy on Twitter. Like she's known to like, go off yeah, to go off. Like this is not a new thing. yeah And I knew that, but like, I didn't think it would be a big ah problem, you know?
01:03:15
Speaker
And so she's going flagrantly going crazy on the timeline. And so my rebot PLM calls me and is like, this is not okay. And like, we bring her in the pack, like you're taking responsibility for her. And I was like, okay. yeah So I call her and I'm like, you gotta chill the fuck out. Like you got me looking crazy. yeah Like, you know, and I was like, this is, and they're going to pull your shoe. Like if you can't, if you can't just shut the fuck up, like just shut up for a couple days. Like that's it. yeah They're going to take the shoe and all this is going to fall apart. And she was like, okay, jazz. And she's always been very receptive and she knows, you know, so it was like, she would like delete her Twitter. Like she would like,
01:03:51
Speaker
try to be proactive in it but that taught me too is like you can't be just when one is like you can't be i can't be nerd like jazzy at night and be somebody else in the daytime it's like this is who i am everywhere i show up yeah and when you work when you have clients you're working on projects like they don't want to deal with that they don't want to deal with all this mess and like the potential of you being a bad look for them and And I mean, that's that.
01:04:17
Speaker
You got to have that awareness. Yeah. and I don't think a lot of people on the Internet have awareness. No. i I do want to talk about like you getting into publishing. Oh, yeah. The books. You know, we've got sneakers.
01:04:29
Speaker
Sneakers illustrated by a Rodrigo Corral from Jay-Z's Decoded. Fire. These are amazing. I'm in that one. You're the People magazine?
01:04:41
Speaker
I'm in the front cover. Open it up. ah It kind of opens up. Oh, yeah. I remember this. Yeah, right there. That's crazy.
01:04:52
Speaker
don't even remember when you when you worked with the M&Ms. The green M&Ms. The green M&Ms, yeah. Or green. You're supposed to just call her green. I learned. We've got girls.
01:05:04
Speaker
So that is like, this is like an antique book. Like this dropped in like 2008, but 2011. Okay. I did the interview in 2008, but, um, Lori looked like from female sneaker fiend. Her and Jen twice went all around the world and like photographed women in sneakers, like way back then. And like, so a lot of girls that I know now were in this book, you know, like,
01:05:30
Speaker
so This is amazing. yeah it is really It's a really like archival piece. that's like We were outside. people you know I might have been the only one in my town, but all of us were like the only one in our town. yeah Oh, man. This is sick.
01:05:43
Speaker
mean we also have the first pair. but like you Nike's the first night he's the first pair.
01:05:51
Speaker
um but like helping This is crazy. Sorry. So I'd mentor Christina also. I know. Yeah. she's This is crazy. I love all the girls. like But you know I think a lot of people tell you I have an eye for talent. And that's like my thing. is like I want to get behind people that I believe in.
01:06:11
Speaker
that's why That's why I was asking about the yeah like that. because Christina, because it's like, as we heard in the space last night, there's not a lot of Black people in sneaker journalism. right And so when I left that space, I was like, oh my gosh, like what is going to happen to the space? And Christina is you know young Black woman in publishing. And I was like, yeah, I'm definitely going to stand with her and help support whatever she does. No, yeah, I mean...
01:06:39
Speaker
And the sneakers book, they found me on Instagram. Yeah. They like DM me on Instagram and they were like, hey, like we are the authors of this book. Like we want to interview you and hear your story. So I have a four page spread in that book.
01:06:53
Speaker
Well deserved. Yeah. Thank you. And I let my son shoot me. So they have photo credits in the book. Oh, let's go. Everybody, everybody eats. Everybody's. I mean, look, I had Zion super early. Shout out Zion, man. he's He's doing amazing things.
01:07:07
Speaker
He's somebody's husband. I know. Yeah. Look at that. You raised a husband. It's a family business, you know? But speaking, I think we were talking a little bit ago about like, you know, have experiencing like things in the office and the frustrations. It's like my son being in the business too yeah is not at overtime, but he went to another sneaker um organization after, not a brand, but a little sneaker organization after overtime.
01:07:34
Speaker
And he was working there for like two weeks. And he calls me on a Friday and he's like, they just talked to me crazy in in front of everybody in the office. And he can't talk to me like that. I quit. And I was like, you can't just quit your job like because somebody talked to you crazy. yeah And that's like the hard part, I think.
01:07:49
Speaker
for me is when it's like, I don't want to normalize it, but it's also like, yeah, you're going to experience some of that. yeah And I'm not saying that it's okay or like, but you also can't just walk off the job because you didn't like the way somebody talked to you. Like, especially in this business, it's a lot of ego, a lot of, we got a lot of young men, lots of saucer, a lot of ego wrapped up in it. So you're, you're not going to have the greatest day every day working in this business. No, yeah. The the the one thing I learned is that this this industry is small and you're going to be running into the same people, you know. And the only thing I the only advice i always give people is just like, as long as you treat people as as as you see them treat you or as one of you as long as you treat people the golden rule, as long as you treat people as you want to be treated.
01:08:35
Speaker
then that's going to go longer than that one day when somebody, like, someone just, like, tears you a new one. You're like, why? you're just like, yeah. It's just like, you're going to have down the road, you will end their boss. No, I tell people all the time, this relationships business.
01:08:50
Speaker
People don't leave this industry. It's incestuous as fuck. They just move around. They just move around. So the person that you know today at Converse, they're going to be at New Balance in 10 years and...
01:09:01
Speaker
doing something totally different. Yeah, exactly. And hopefully they've elevated just like you have. so I mean, appreciate that.
Personal Stories and Emotional Connections to Sneakers
01:09:09
Speaker
ah But we're towards the end of the podcast. But Connor, we're going to a little bit long.
01:09:14
Speaker
All right, cool. Because I do want to read something. But we're at the end of podcast and it deals with a little visualization. So I want you to think back Young Jazz when she's about to open that box of the Converses. We're going to go Converses. Oh, gosh. Yeah.
01:09:29
Speaker
And now you're older, are you behind your younger self. What would you tell your younger self as she opens that box? Um, Save the shoes. it's not Not for the converse, I probably say. But I think that um enjoy the ride. yeah And live loud. That's something and my sister always say is like, live loud. And especially now, you know on the other side, I had medical emergency. It's like, I'm living loud as fuck now.
01:09:57
Speaker
So I've been asking people to write in You can write in to me, My First Kicks. You're My First Kicks story. Info at My First Kicks. And i got one here.
01:10:08
Speaker
by Jay Guidos, Jay Fire Fridays. yeah He writes in, he says, I just had to share my sneaker story with you because it's a big part of why I love ah love shoes so much. Growing up, most of my kicks came from Payless and Kmart.
01:10:21
Speaker
Honestly, i was just happy to have something on my feet. My parents always told me I'd get one pair a year, which meant I had had to keep them clean and looking good. Things changed during middle school when I faced a tough time with bullying and trying to figure out who I was.
01:10:36
Speaker
As the shorter, chubby Hispanic kid, I really struggled to fit in. But everything turned around for me when I got my hands on a pair of all-white Air Force ones. Everybody at school had them and just knew i needed a pair too.
01:10:49
Speaker
I can still remember that fresh leather smell, the shiny silver dubre, and how many Dickies hung ah perfectly over them. how my disc How my dickies hung perfectly over them.
01:11:02
Speaker
Wearing those shoes made me feel like I could own any room and tackle any social challenges with newfound confidence. Outside of school, I was totally influenced by hip-hop culture and shows like 106 and Park with AJ and Free.
01:11:15
Speaker
I loved how sneakers and style made a statement about who you are. I went through all kinds of sneaker phases from Converse's to Vans, Fat Farm, and even Airwalks. but my sneaker journey took a major turn when my little brother graduated high school.
01:11:28
Speaker
I struggled in school and was even close to getting kicked out. Then in 10th grade, I met a mentor who really helped me put, who helped me, who helped put me back on track.
01:11:39
Speaker
Fast forward to when my little brother asked for some new shoes and it hit me hard, especially after they saw how much it took from me, from how much it took from me to graduate, how much it took for me to graduate.
01:11:52
Speaker
I bought him a pair of Roshi runs. And as I watched his face light up, I couldn't resist picking up a pair for myself. The excitement and joy share we shared made me realize how much sneakers meant to me as a connection to my brothers. Over the years, I've learned that the real value of shoes isn't just in their style or brand, but in the stories people behind ah stories and the people behind them Now, my work with the youth feels like a full circle moment. Cleaning sneakers and having uplifting conversations fills me with hope and joy, allowing me to be ah the supportive voice I needed when I was younger.
01:12:28
Speaker
Through these connections, I hope to inspire the next generation just like I was inspired. Thanks for letting me share my journey. i mean I love him and everything that he works, you know, that he shares that he's working on. um And I think it's those stories. I mean, like, my story is very similar to that.
01:12:43
Speaker
And I know a ton of other people who have a very similar story, too. And I think there's a lot of like, mental health wrapped up in why we do this. Oh, for sure. You know. I call it out all the time. i'm like, and sometimes, like, I always be like, yeah, reelp retail terror therapy. Because, like,
01:13:00
Speaker
There's nothing nothing really like uplifts you more than just like you buy something brand new and you're just like, yo, this is a new thing. Well, for me, it's like the shoes that I have that like remind me of certain moments yeah in my life. So, you know, like the shoes I was wearing when like I went into labor with my kids like these.
01:13:19
Speaker
So when I go into my sneaker room, it's like. Or like sneakers that my friends made, you know, from years ago or my misplaced checks from John, you know, just like all these moments that I've had is like those things mean something to me as opposed to like.
01:13:35
Speaker
Whatever, you know, I want the taxis bad. I bought them like three times already. But like, I need that. It's like that thing is still drives me. It's like, I still need them. Even though I know I'm probably not going to wear them a million times. It's like, I love them and I need them in my collection because they're missing. Like, so I think it's like, you know, when it doesn't feel like that anymore, then I'll stop. Yeah.
01:13:56
Speaker
Look, somebody is looking for these right now. They really are. yeah but My man don't have a pair. He's like, why don't I'm like, I didn't know you were going to come along after this. Like, so, I mean, have three pairs, a 10 and a 10 and a half and a six. That's it.
01:14:11
Speaker
I'm a 13. That's not. Sorry. I had a 13, but the Bata Shoe Museum bought it for their archive of black designers. Let's go. Yeah. Let's go. That's a that's a perfect note. yeah you You in a museum.
01:14:23
Speaker
That's
Podcasting Journey and Community Building
01:14:24
Speaker
right. Let everybody know where to find you. NerdLikeJazzy on Instagram. You back. I'm back outside. um Let my hair down on hoes now. ah And on Twitter, Jazzy Ray. Yeah. And TrueToSize.com.
01:14:38
Speaker
Yes, please, please tap in, tap in. You're going to see a lot more of Jazzy. You know, we also, you know where to find me. Who is Hassan on social medias? Follow the podcast, My First Kicks Pod. Follow Smooth, Smooth the Source. She was in the audience. The one share audience.
01:14:52
Speaker
um aid the one chair one- chairir audience um And I'm going to kick it to myself to to do Patreon shout outs in my outro.
01:15:03
Speaker
Peace. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode with Jazrae. Man, she is such a wealth of knowledge, her history within the sneaker industry. And also we touched a little bit about her involvement with BFF Black Footwear Forum.
01:15:18
Speaker
Which, you know, i went to this year. So we talked a little bit about that. And if you watch Muggsy's episode ah couple weeks back, you get to hear a little bit more of like my experience there as well.
01:15:30
Speaker
But, you know. As I said in the beginning of this episode, I reached out to Jazre super early on when I first started the podcast in the hopes of getting her on because Don Will, former guest Don Will of Tanya Morgan, worked with her on kick at kicks so five Kicks on Fire. bad.
01:15:50
Speaker
And so it's like a story history. And so it was just like, you know, at first she told me no. And was... you know, you kind of got to see if somebody is really about this or really going out to do what they're doing. And it really put that like battery in my back to make sure, you know, I learned how to like follow up with, you know, guests who i want to have on. And that's how I, how Pete calls me the, uh, premium Pete calls me the king of follow-ups. Like it all started from Jazzy Ray's no, like,
01:16:28
Speaker
you know I didn't really go really in depth with it, but I remember just kind of being like, damn, you know, this sucks. Like, oh how it was one of like my first big no's because I was, when I first started the the podcast, I was getting like, yeah, I'd love to do It's such a great concept. And I had like a, I really honed into not what the pitch that I give now, but like my initial pitch, pitch, especially during the pandemic, a lot of people were like, yeah, it's just Zoom. I can just do it. Like, it's fine.
01:16:54
Speaker
And so, you know, my patience and me just wanting to get better and better. And I realized that her no was more of like, ah I just want to see how far you go or get without, you know, me jumping in the beginning and stuff like that. And I think that if you get to this part of the episode and you're listening, like, I've been saying this ever since this episode, like in my head, I've been saying like, there's going to be
01:17:26
Speaker
100 no's before you get that initial yes, the the initial yes is something that where you think that you're at a specific point in your career or, you know, whatever your journey is, whether it be in sneakers, whether be any form of career, like my job in advertising, where it's just like, you're going to hear so many notes, you're do all these interviews and, and go for jobs. And, and people are going to tell you're not qualified. And, and, like you're trying to interview people,
01:18:01
Speaker
And then people are being like, oh, I've never heard of your podcast before. um and that shouldn't deter you. that should That should really be a point of just like, OK, maybe I'm not out there enough. Maybe I'm not doing as much as I could do. And so, you know, ah call back Jazza Ray's No where I was when she told me no, I was just like.
01:18:23
Speaker
it's all good. Let's, let's, let me get my name out there and be part of this, be part of the community and be, be more active and be more, you know, a name that people can really, so you know, think about when they think about sneakers. And so, or when they think about a sneaker podcast, when they think about podcasting in general, like I just tried my best to just, I always call it spray and pray. I just put all my stuff everywhere. And,
01:18:52
Speaker
You know, getting on people's radars, is it can be hard. I think we live in this current age of the Internet where there is just so much of everything that you have to figure out ways to call attention to yourself, especially even if you're doing something that everybody else is passionate.
01:19:11
Speaker
Like. We all love sneakers. You can see if you go on Twitter, people are just constantly fighting every single day about sneakers. And it's all well and good if as long as everybody's having fun and nobody's getting hurt.
01:19:24
Speaker
But, you know, you still have to wade through the people that think they're, you know, you have to listen to their opinions. And if you don't listen to them, then, you know, you're going to be outcasted. And it's just like there are so many people.
01:19:37
Speaker
things that happen. And I think that that happens in any sort of subculture. So when it comes to this podcast, what it represents, the people I talk to, the people I'm interested by, and the people that I want to sit in front of me, it always comes down to just my love for this, like my love for talking to y'all, my love for being in front of the camera, being in front of the guests, getting to know somebody.
01:20:04
Speaker
Like I'm such an inquisitive person and I feel like we live in a world where that can sometimes seem rare, which that's all fine because we're so used to just, and as soon as somebody says something, does just Google it.
01:20:18
Speaker
And so it's hard to just kind of want to sit in front of somebody and have a really deep, understanding of the person in front of you.
01:20:29
Speaker
And i do hope that y'all are getting that every time y'all tune in each week. And I know I'm getting a little bit longer with these outros. um Last week, I did get a lot of props for what I was saying.
01:20:41
Speaker
And so, I mean, I appreciate every single one of y'all for tuning in because you know, this is this has been a long journey, but it's also been the most fulfilling thing I've ever done. And so need I need I i want you all to understand that. and you know, this year um i had a conversation with d the other day and I was just like, you know, this year ah really wanted to cement myself in this. I wanted I wanted people to really, you know, mess with me, basically. And
01:21:16
Speaker
I went all in and kind of like went to a ton of events, you know, did the thing and ah did the live podcast that did not go well. I mean, in terms of just like the recording did not go go up well um online. And so just trying to build as much as I can around this, build this ecosystem.
01:21:39
Speaker
And so I really appreciate for everybody tuning in. If you want to help out, you can always help out. And go the extra mile by joining the Patreon at patreon.com slash myfirstkicks.
01:21:50
Speaker
And of course, we have the Patreon shoutouts. We've got Ross Adams. We got Adam Neustadter. We got Adam Butler. Shout out Adam Butler, MSR. And we've got Clox, more recent subscriber, of course.
01:22:06
Speaker
We've got Derek, Derek Lipkin, aka Fresh Poetic. We've got Jesse, Jesse G. Shout out And we got a new subscriber this week. Shout out Derek Hawkins.
01:22:16
Speaker
Man, we hung out at ComplexCon a lot. We went to the the steakhouse. Um... And so I really appreciate you for for hitting me up and letting me know, you know, that like you you've been checking out the podcast. And so, you know, shout out to everybody that's supporting the podcast. You know, make sure you subscribe. Make sure you share it. It really goes a long way. You know, this is such a grassroots movement that it does really rely on anybody who's listening to this to just be like, yo, heard you like ah such and such. ah You know, maybe you should check out this podcast like
01:22:53
Speaker
find that common through line that I use. this is like I use a through line to get to know the person. So find that common through line to kind of share the podcast, right? ah This week, Sokjig invited me to be on his podcast talk a little bit about ComplexCon.
01:23:10
Speaker
So I'll plug in that episode here because it's really fun conversation. I think Sock does a really good job of just like solo podcast and like getting his points across. And whenever he's doing something that ah deals with a lot of information, really digs himself into it. But this week we talked about ComplexCon, my experience there. um And I will say that I will be doing for the Patreon, it's going to be a Patreon only episode. I will put a teaser up. but Me and AD, think we're going to be doing a ComplexCon recap episode.
01:23:45
Speaker
I will offer the Patreon. And then we will also be doing the, I'm doing a VFF recap with Joe, higher learning, higher living. All right. ah Thoughts for the Soul podcast.
01:23:57
Speaker
That's my bro right there. ah We're doing that. We also still Aaron AD. We're going to sit down. We're going to do a recap of our Portland trip since we were all together. And those are all those three episodes will be going up on the Patreon. So you'd have to sign up at the five dollars here in order to get that.
01:24:15
Speaker
um And I really appreciate y'all for tuning in this week. Hope you really enjoyed this conversation with Jazz. She's going to be back because we only touched on a little bit of her journey.
01:24:27
Speaker
So we've definitely got to get her back. And now she's she's back outside. So be be sure to follow her and be sure to check out to ah check out everything that she's doing because she's definitely going to be tapped in a lot.
01:24:40
Speaker
Man, it's good to see. It's good to see Nerd lie ja nerd Like Jazzy is back. And of course, if you want to check out more of the podcast, I
01:24:57
Speaker
Peace.