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BRACKET FINAL
5 Plays4 years ago
Finally we reach the end of the road with the Melaninjas 2021 Bracket. Tune in to see how it turns out. Spoiler Yusuke did NOT win.
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Transcript
Introducing the Meloninjas
00:00:09
Speaker
Every story, every battle, every model, every child, every dream, every team, it don't matter if you proud, gotta bleed for it Yeah, nigga, gotta bleed for it
00:00:20
Speaker
See my ancestors from Manchester to now I've been to underground stories Since niggas was underground we them black ninjas Who making our mamas proud better tune in nigga We taking it all around it's the meloninjas So go and tell the fam we need better figures And we don't fuck with Uncle Sam better get the picture These black hands make black bands And I'll be the greatest nigga like the last dance meloninjas
00:00:58
Speaker
Hello, everyone. I am one of your hosts, Emerson, along with Alex and Kawan, and we are your Meloninjas. We talk all things anime. We aren't experts, just very passionate anime fans who are happy to give their opinion and perspectives on various topics.
Anime Bracket Challenge Begins
00:01:15
Speaker
Now it is the time to go through and finish out our bracket, this legendary bracket that was made by a random generator.
00:01:25
Speaker
Now we all know that Yusuke Yeremeshi should be the winner of this bracket. So I don't even know why we're going through the bracket, but we will because we have received input from several sources and it's only right that we give every character a fair golden. So today participating in rounding out the bracket, we have a special guest.
Special Guests Join the Debate
00:01:49
Speaker
I call him the outro. We got Travis.
00:01:55
Speaker
We got Nelson, my man Nelson, Reverend Dallas. What up, Dallas? You all love Dallas. And of course we have our favorite host, Alex, because Alex is the best. So the rules, the rules for this is we will go through, I will announce the name, the tournament or the round that we are in. And then each person will say who they're voting for.
00:02:20
Speaker
For a character to win their matchup, they must receive three votes. And there are four of us. So, in the event of a tie, somebody needs to jump ship. And we love a person that jumped ship. Watch Attack on Titan, there's a lot of that. And- Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay, that's me. Straight out the gate. Out the gate swinging. I want y'all to know what we on today. No one from them is in the bracket though.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, no one... Yeah, I mean, well, because Aaron destroyed the ship. Sorry, that might be spoiler. To begin, to start the bracket, we have our first matchup. Uh
All for One vs. Benimaru
00:03:04
Speaker
-oh, sorry, I gotta pull the bracket. Oh my gosh. All for one versus Benny Mario. This is a quality matchup right here. You got your Fire Force and you got your My Hero Academia.
00:03:19
Speaker
Some might say two of the new big three. Some, that some is me because I don't think anybody else has fire force in a big three, but it's okay. It's not, it's good though. You know, Alex, Alex, I'm gonna be nice to you because I need you on my side later on this bracket. So I agree with whatever you say. You already know who me and Nelson are gonna choose. Alex, don't be confused. Alex, I just want to say we've been through many episodes together.
00:03:50
Speaker
You know, my ride or die. But for the first round, match up again, first match up. Sorry, the first match up of the Elite Eight, if you will. All for one versus many Mario. I'm going to start off with my man Nelson, who you got. Am I supposed to also make the case for why I'm picking this person yet? So you can if you want, but there might not be a need to if that person gets three votes off the gate.
00:04:22
Speaker
So, okay. Well, I'm picking all for one. I'm picking all for one. And I'm gonna make my case very simple. Is Benny Maru more powerful than Endeavor? Because that prominence burn went crazy. And if he's not more powerful than Endeavor, how can you say he's better than All Might? And then how can you say he's better than All For One? By Transitive Property.
00:04:54
Speaker
The transitive property, he said. Anybody want to respond to that? Because Travis, you're up next to, say, your vote. But you want to respond to that? Where you at on that?
00:05:04
Speaker
Actually, I have to agree with my man Nelson. I'm going to have to give my vote to all for one. I will preface though that I am open to being persuaded because I have not seen Fire Force. However, I did do my research and I've looked into his pyrokinesis power and I also saw his fight versus, I think it was Fire Force Company One.
00:05:33
Speaker
And there was another one, I think Holy Soul, I think it was called. So I just saw those two fights, which were like really, really wild. But I will say in the context of comparing animes, My Hero Academia, the first person that did come to mind was Endeavor, or even his son, my homeboy.
00:05:58
Speaker
you know what I'm saying? And I would imagine that based off of like the, what was it, the season four finale, or maybe the second to last episode, where we finally saw him step into his role as the number one hero.
00:06:17
Speaker
Now he won that fight, bro. Did he? Did he? Because his uniform was tattered. Did you? Come on, man. I ain't gonna spoil it. But you know we had that moment where everybody was like, wow, it looked like...
00:06:30
Speaker
I think he can do it after all. Like, yeah. That's how you felt? I'm very hopeful for Endeavor. Although I'm not, I need to hear more about him as a character because I'm still not over this illusion that I think we spoke about the last time I was on with y'all two about like how his kids came to be and how he was just like experimenting for him to get the perfect half and half child.
00:06:59
Speaker
But aside from that, yeah, based off the little research I've done, I'm not convinced that Benny Maru is gonna be able to be all for one, because all for one can definitely be Endeavor. Okay, so I'll put all for one for you as you go. I'll put an asterisk because you say you can do this for me. Yeah, I'm willing to do that. But it sounds like you're pretty solid on all for one. So I'm gonna go to Alex.
00:07:28
Speaker
I completely disagree with you. So I completely disagree. I think Vinny Marrow would crush all for one.
00:07:41
Speaker
I think it would be tight, but I really do think Benimaru would win. So you asked me, the first thing you said was you posed if Benimaru is stronger than Endeavor, and by transitive property, can he then beat all for one? I think Benimaru is stronger than Endeavor because he doesn't have the drawbacks that Endeavor has about overheating.
00:08:04
Speaker
So I think he has the same physicality as Endeavor. They're both very physical people. I think Benny Morrow's flames are really, really hot. And we already know that even within the world of My Hero Academia,
00:08:20
Speaker
Endeavor's flames are not the hottest that they are. I mean, they're not as hot as they possibly can be. I think his son has an beat on that in terms of the temperature. I do think that he has, you know, obviously, I think Endeavor has really, really strong flames. Like he's very, very smart. He's very skilled in battle. But I think Benimaru is, he learned in the streets. Benimaru is much more scrappy than like other people.
00:08:50
Speaker
Not only that, but like Benny Morrow is, he can not only just produce flames, but he can also like manipulate them as well. So he could probably use Endeavor Slames against him. Ooh, that's a great point.
00:09:03
Speaker
So it's not just that he can just use his own flames, produce his own flames, whatever, whatever. He can literally use your flames and manipulate them against you. So I think Benimaru would totally... I think it's pretty easy. I think Benimaru would be Endeavor specifically. Now, if all for one used flames against Benimaru, I think Benimaru would still win.
00:09:28
Speaker
I think Benny Morrow is probably, you know, all for one's battle styles kind of like stand around and like grow stuff at you, kind of dude. Like I'm gonna, he's not really gonna, he can get in your face, but like that's not really, he's more of like a cunning, nifty kind of dude. And like Benny Morrow doesn't have none of that.
00:09:47
Speaker
But he's still smart, but he's going to get up in your face. And I think Benimaru takes all for one. I think it'd be a little tough. It's hard to really compare. But within the world, if we're using world building aside, or if we're using world building to cast our opinions, within the world of my hero academia, all for one is strong.
00:10:12
Speaker
I don't know. Within the world of my heritage academia, all for one is strong, but I still think that like Shigaraki, like if you put Shigaraki in there, I think it would be tighter. I think I would have a different argument. New schools, like the post no moo-ified, like Shigaraki, I think might have a better time against
00:10:34
Speaker
Benimaru in his current world and fire force. So I think Benimaru takes that one. So I have one counterpoint to that, and that is what if all for one has a water quirk? And can all for one just steal Benimaru's power? That's not a quirk. That's not a quirk.
00:11:02
Speaker
I said Benny Mara's power isn't a quirk, so I don't think that's true. Oh, oh, fair, fair, fair. I, Alex, you know, and this is not just because I want you to vote for me later, but I agree, but I agree specifically because of the, I, so I love Endeavor as a character, even with his flaws, I love a flawed character. I don't think, yeah, I just don't think he is the best example of like power scaling and
00:11:31
Speaker
Correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe I am wrong for thinking about it this way. But he struggled with a no-boo. Like, my goodness. It was a cool fight. It was a cool fight, but you struggled with one. And it might be a different version than the one that All Might watched, even when All Might was already fading. But to me, that kind of showed that he shouldn't be a standard bearer for strength.
00:12:00
Speaker
I think of the best move we've seen him do was the prominence burn plus ultra, you know, because it was the second one or whatever. But I don't think that beats the Crimson Moon. Like the Crimson Moon is nuts, which is Benny Morrow's signature. And it doesn't wear him out the same way. He doesn't have the same effect sometimes.
00:12:25
Speaker
I was gonna say we don't and we I mean there's nothing that shows that there's nothing in the in the manga or in the anime that says that he won't be able to fire that off multiple times and that is only one technique that he has um two I don't think and I'm not sure this is like this is completely speculative but I think Benny Maru from a physicality standpoint probably can also
00:12:48
Speaker
give all my, not all my, all for one them hands, especially if he's in the hysterical strength form. Because we don't know, we, like, like Alex said, what we've seen of him is throw shit at people. So if Benny Maru, someone that we've, all we've seen in fire force is him close the distance between people and mop them or use one of his like fire projectiles that are like crazy, I have, there's nothing that leaves me to believe that Benny Maru can't be all for one. So I have, I have some questions as,
00:13:17
Speaker
I have a few questions. So what are Benny Morrow's weaknesses?
00:13:24
Speaker
He doesn't like getting involved. He doesn't care, so he doesn't try. He really doesn't try. He's like one of those characters very, he doesn't even like getting involved in like moves matters. So he doesn't really try and he doesn't always train. Like he's kind of one of those like, he trained when he was, he trained before. It's not like he didn't train ever, but like he's kind of more passive in terms of his approach in battle. I would probably say that's definitely a weakness because he,
00:13:49
Speaker
He's there are no limits on his physical abilities or on his powers. Well, the last episode because I'm kind of behind on the enemy a little bit, but like there's a couple episodes where he went past he can he can tap into the primordial flame by like, um,
00:14:07
Speaker
And that pretty much, even when he gets to his physical limits, like when he goes all the way to his completely, like he's at ground zero empty, like empty limits, he can somehow kind of tap into an extra resource, kind of like when Naruto had the, had the nine-tailed fox, like he can kind of go and tap into some like additional back-end source, like his, that other thing kicks in and takes over.
00:14:32
Speaker
Um, so I don't, I don't, they, they're, they're stacking him up to being like the Gojo of fire force. So like, it's hard to know what his cap is. I don't know if I haven't seen it reached. I haven't seen any real direct, um, weaknesses outside of just him. Not really, they don't, they nerf him by having him not be involved a lot of times. Cause I feel like he, if he was more involved more frequently, like there wouldn't be a lot of conflict in the show.
00:15:02
Speaker
So I have another counterpoint, which is all for one, all for one, you can talk about how powerful you think Benimaru's moves are, but all for one took a United States of Smash to the face and ate it. It took a what to the face? United States of Smash to the face and provide. And unless Benimaru has a move that is more powerful than that,
00:15:31
Speaker
I don't see how you can say he would stand a chance. Just to confirm. My dude can get his ass whooped the best. Which one can take an ass whooping better? Is that our barometer? I just want to know if you're saying that whether or not Benny Maru is as strong as an All Might on his last ember giving a United States his match. His last ember.
00:15:57
Speaker
Which means this probably wasn't as strong as United States of Smash that he could give. So I don't think the fact that he survived says much. It just says that, I think it says more about all my strength in that moment than it says about all for one. And all for one doesn't have a face.
00:16:24
Speaker
So that's a point against him, because he doesn't have a face. That's what I heard. I can't look him in the eyes. No, he saw the creator that got left in the ground. When he punched the ground, that last United States to smash was still strong as heck. No, it was. It worked.
00:16:40
Speaker
So I have another question. In Fire Force, or at least in Benimaru's case, this Pyrokinesis and all of these other flame-based powers, are these capabilities that the characters are innately born with? Like they are innately all have this power? Because you said it doesn't function as a quirk, right? Like how things would in My Hero Academia.
00:17:08
Speaker
I don't know enough about the lore to be able to answer that. I'm not sure. I just know that Benny Marl is one of the, he's a first gen, he's a second and third generation pyrokinetic. So he's got both. Basically most people are either one or the other. I guess a third generation pyrokinetic can like produce their flames and a second gen cannot control them. Yeah, he can't produce it, but he can control flames, but like Benny Marl can do both. And I'm assuming that has to do with his genetics. So I'm assuming there is some kind of, I'm born with it characteristic about
00:17:37
Speaker
the show, but I don't know. Gotcha. All right, Travis, we're gonna need you to make your decision as you are clearly the tiebreaker for this one.
00:17:50
Speaker
Indeed, it's a lot of pressure. I do think that based off of all of the information that has been presented, I do think I am going to have to switch my vote to Betty Maru.
00:18:07
Speaker
What? Nelson, I mean, you made very sound points, but I will say between the two of them, I haven't I haven't heard anything that I haven't heard anything that was a little that was more convincing than their arguments. What? Okay. All right. And like that we have our first Victor. I'm so sorry.
00:18:32
Speaker
There's nothing wrong. Don't apologize. You use rational thinking and we like. So for our second, our second matchup, we have Saitama versus Ichigo. I'm going to go first to my good brother, Travis, because you wrote the tie for the last one.
Saitama vs. Ichigo Matchup
00:18:54
Speaker
I'm gonna have to say Saitama right off the bat. My mans, I have not seen a fight yet where my mans has broken a sweat. Not yet. We have seen two full seasons and he is, I don't know if it's like a refusal to be pressed or as much as it is like.
00:19:21
Speaker
Nobody can stop him. Like he, did you see his super fast sideways steps? Did anybody see that? And that was, oh my gosh, bro. I really thought that the whole growl fight was going to be so much more like,
00:19:38
Speaker
I don't know. I was very, very immensely anticipating it. And then it just ended, even not, even before all of that, when he was trying to pick on him while Saitama was looking at something at a shop. He just, Karate chopped him into the ground and it was nothing. It was nah.
00:19:58
Speaker
He's very clearly even more powerful than we have seen from him. He has, like, defeated universal, like, gods with one punch. But is he stronger than Pentamaru? That is the question. What do you have? My goal goes to Saitama.
00:20:26
Speaker
All right. All right. Ah, yeah. One punch, man. Just one punch. That's all he's going to need. One serious punch or just a punch?
00:20:35
Speaker
Serious punch or regular punch? Just a normal punch. Is it a serious punch? I think he, like, oh, you think he's going just a pretty normal punch. Hey, my boy Ichigo like that, just the basic punch. That's all I take. We're not even talking about excited, like, drawn face in. Saitama, we're talking about, like, you know, dumb face. The blank one that they don't put any effort in. A derpy face. Hey, my goodness. Saitama is, yeah.
00:21:07
Speaker
No, no, go ahead. No, no. Seitama is. I was going to say Seitama is. I was going to say Seitama, even though I haven't seen one punch, man, he's my favorite character in anime. Because he's like, I'm too nice for this. That's just his general ethos. You haven't even seen him get to a point where he's like, maybe I'm not nice enough for this.
00:21:29
Speaker
He doesn't even care to be a clap. He's like comfortable as a class B hero. And he's like triple S bruh. He wasn't always comfortable. He was trying for a while. Only because he was trying to get paid more money. That was it. Hey, money does run the world. That's what I'm saying. I'm only here so I don't get fined. Yep. Mark Sean Lynch out here. Hey, look. Collect that chicken. Protect that chicken. All right, Alex, what you got?
00:22:00
Speaker
I prefer not to comment. You know I love each other. You gonna abstain?
00:22:07
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I plead the fifth because I love my boy Ichigo, you know, like, I can't let him get disrespected. Like, at the very minimum, I hope that Saitama would break a sweat. Like, you know, maybe, maybe if my boy Ichigo went full hollow, like, you know, his hair grew 20 inches, he had that rim.
00:22:30
Speaker
And maybe if he confused himself with his, you know, he could kind of come up with this merger form with his hollow slash, um, the hollow form comes over with his, uh, with his Quincy power and, you know, his full brain could all kind of like merge together and he could use all of his abilities all at once. Then maybe he could make Saitama excited.
00:22:58
Speaker
I don't know that I would credibly have to agree that Saitama would probably take him out. Well, Ichigo doesn't really, Ichigo is such a plot driven character. Like Ichigo has no motive, like no real purpose. He's kind of an aimless character. So like, I don't know. But I guess so is Saitama. Maybe they wouldn't fight. Maybe they would just chat and be friends. Probably would. Yeah, bruh.
00:23:28
Speaker
Do you really invite, invite a man, play video games? Yeah, like they might just chill. Cause at the end of the day, like, what are you fighting for my man? I don't know. Yeah. That's the conversation. What are you fighting for? Well, Well, I do have a say Tomo winning this one. So we have our first sweep.
00:23:56
Speaker
Let's go. Look at rational minds. We love it. We love it. All right. Because y'all been a rational as heck up until this point. Well, it's about to come back to irrational. Because the next one is Mero. Oh my god. So this is Zorro. And I'm going to let out. How did this happen? How did this happen? Well, by default.
Meruem vs. Zoro and Yusuke vs. Goku
00:24:25
Speaker
By default, because Zorro belongs in One Piece, Meruem destroys Zorro. Why is Zorro even here? Who are you? That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. I don't even know how this character got in. Because Alex has not seen One Piece. Well, let me not say it. She has seen it. She doesn't like the animation. So she hasn't gotten into Zorro's character. And Kawan and I both love Zorro, so it was really easy for him to get the spark.
00:24:53
Speaker
And I can't even, I just looked him up. My dude is no, ew, no, like, no. Oh, wait, now don't, don't play my man's out now. This three-sword style is crazy. It is, bro. That, that, what is it? The 1,084-pound Phoenix? That dude's got two mountains. I'll, I'll give him, but he shouldn't, he don't belong here. Yeah. I think, all right. So Alec, you said,
00:25:20
Speaker
That was pretty, you know. When he was in his little ant form, like not even fully, like that form would destroy Zorro. I mean, yeah. All right, baby ant. Nelson, who you got? Oh, you already know it's Meryl.
00:25:36
Speaker
Oh gosh. All right, Travis, I think I had to see where this is going. It's absolutely Meryl. It is 100% Meryl. Well, as the only rational person here, I am clearly picking Meryl because I have to. Doesn't matter where I'm at. Why is this weird for even here? Why was he here? OK, let's talk about it. We can talk about how he got there. Zoro first fought Asta.
00:26:03
Speaker
from black clover we've seen okay i'll give him i'll give him that i hate that nigga god damn i had a headache every single episode oh wow yeah
00:26:27
Speaker
What are you doing, bro? What are you doing? OK, so he fought Asta first, and then he fought Yuna. And then he fought over. He fought Yuna, also Black Clover. He just mocked Black Clover. OK, wait, what? OK, time out. Why do we have two Black Clover characters? And we have one from, oh, wait, hold up. There are several characters from several animes. Never mind. I was about to, never mind.
00:26:59
Speaker
Let me just say this, we had Zorro beating us, or wait, is it Zorro or Zero? Zorro. Zorro, right? Zorro, yeah, beating Asta. I think Asta would beat Zorro. I don't know anything about that. I think I did vote for Asta and y'all were like, no, Zorro is fair.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. We told you why. He wouldn't mop him. No, he probably wouldn't actually mop him. I'm still mad about that one more. Just for the record. I just had to go back on his ability to fan
00:27:35
Speaker
Look, you gotta see that. You gotta see the anime. You can't read it. Look, books don't impress people. You gotta see the movie or the anime. I will say this though, the next round should be the easiest of all for everybody. It is Goku versus Yusuke. And I'll kick it off because you already know who I'm voting for. I'm voting for Yusuke. Yusuke, you're a mess. I want to point out several things before I just stop here. First,
00:28:03
Speaker
From what we know, given canon, anime canon, not the manga, we're not gonna do that, Alex, don't come for me. We know based off of the Broly movie, which is canon, and happened after the Tournament of Power, that Goku can no longer achieve Ultra Instance. So I don't wanna hear anything. He can not achieve it. He said that in the anime and we're going off anime,
00:28:33
Speaker
This is an anime bracket. Anime bracket. So he said that. Those were his words, not mine. And because he cannot do that. Alex, I'm not done yet. Because he cannot do that. Mate, mate, mate.
00:28:56
Speaker
No, because we know that you did not achieve that. I don't want to hear any Ultra Instinct talk, firstly. Secondly, because we're not hearing any Ultra Instinct talk, all we can assume is... For second, Blue pounds Kaioken, whatever number you want to give it. And he does all of that. He does all of that and still can't be Android 17. And Krillin gave
00:29:27
Speaker
Yes, I said what I said, because we've seen it. We saw them go head to head. And Android 17 gave him pause. So did Krillin. If Krillin can give Super Saiyan Blue Goku pause, you can't tell me that Yusuke can't give him pause.
00:29:40
Speaker
Second, they did really messed that up. They ruined the power skills. I'm not going to lie. Any time they had Krillin going paw to paw and just a command mehow war with Super Sand Blue, that was a, they played themselves. And I'm going to use it here for my advantage.
00:29:58
Speaker
I will also say that our man Yusuke, like we talked about before, which is important because he used it to take my man Nelson out, put him out of his misery with the Benimaru. Yeah, Yusuke also has a reserve when he's tapped out of spirit energy. I'm still not out of my misery. Yusuke also has a reserve of energy. So once he's out of spirit energy, he has his demon energy and vice versa. So I don't see him
00:30:27
Speaker
stopping using any, he will use spirit energy or demon energy, which be like, I assume the equivalent of key blast. We know Goku can run out. We do know that. We've seen it several times. I'm just saying I got Yusuke. I'm ending my, my argument. I'm going to pass it to who, oh, Travis is up. Travis, who you got? Okay. So.
00:30:56
Speaker
Who I have right now is Goku. I will say I have not seen Yu Yu Hakusho. I did another fandom wiki search. So I am willing to be swayed. I've seen a lot about this spirit gun and a lot of other demon powers that I'm interested in hearing in comparison to a Kamehameha or an ultimate spirit bomb.
00:31:22
Speaker
or, you know, some of the, let's say, more up-to-date powers that my man Goku has had. So you're saying we're excluding Ultra Instinct? No, you can use it. You can use Ultra Instinct if you want. Okay, well, I'll wait until I hear everybody, until I hear what everyone has to say. But my vote right now is for Goku with an asterisk. I'll hear what more people ask. Your second asterisk of the day, sir.
00:31:52
Speaker
That's fair. That's fair. All right. Nelson, you up, bro. So Travis, I played Kattan with you enough to know that you can't let yourself be convinced that easily to make a bad move. You can't do it. Don't do it. The answer to this question is Goku, no asterisk, no nothing. He's going to wipe the floor if you stay here. Oh, gosh. Even before Ultra Instinct, Goku. I put Goku, no asterisk.
00:32:22
Speaker
Okay, like we're gonna talk about Majin Buu versus Yusuke. Like Majin Buu's wiping the floor with Yusuke. And that was before Super Saiyan Blue. That was before Super Saiyan Guy. I don't think Yusuke would fight Majin Buu though. I don't think Yusuke would fight Majin Buu. He doesn't have a reason to fight him. It don't matter if Majin Buu's about to- I think Kid Buu's a better argument, honestly.
00:32:50
Speaker
Because Yusuke has to be motivated. We just talked about like, each of you don't say Tom, like they have to be motivated. Huh? I think Kid Buu would be an interesting fight. I think it'd be an interesting fight because even Goku couldn't be Kid Buu. So there's that. But Mike Guy would be Yusuke. You can't tell me that. Disrespectful. Disrespectful. I love Mike Guy. I love Mike Guy. Mike Guy is not getting near Yusuke.
00:33:18
Speaker
what all those range all those range attacks this man only has taijutsu what do you think he's gonna do he doesn't need he doesn't need that he's not gonna let him get near him could be could be used gay oh say that again ma'am i'm sorry i didn't hear you
00:33:36
Speaker
I said her cue on a good day could take Yusuke. Whoa. Whoa. All right. All right. That's a little, it's a little much there. Fine, fine, fine. Fine, fine, fine. I'm going to be more realistic now Yusuke definitely could, Yusuke can get your cue. Okay, fine.
00:34:01
Speaker
rolling it back in. No, seriously, I don't know why you think that. I don't, I don't even know how use gay. I will say I can be, I'm a little bit convinceable. I'm not a hundred percent convinceable, but I'm a little convinceable that maybe use K can win. But I, I mean,
00:34:17
Speaker
Goku is like the OG broken character. He always levels up. He always levels up and he always breaks his limits. That's his MO. He just keeps rising and he enjoys the challenge. So if Yusuke really does ever give him hands, Goku would just keep elevating. That's just in his blood. That's in his nature. So I would be shocked.
00:34:39
Speaker
I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that because the last time we saw Goku do all of that, he was mopped by Jiren and needed help from Frieza to destroy him and take him out of the tournament. So him pushing to his limits
00:34:55
Speaker
he still couldn't get the job done. I'm just saying, I'm just saying that's doing that for sport. He enjoys that too. Like there's a part of him that like won't just go. He won't escalate all the way to the top to take care of stuff because he just enjoys battling. And he'll meet you where you're at. He'll like only use what's sufficiently necessary
00:35:15
Speaker
to take on the challenge so that he can enjoy the fight irregardless of how strong they are, really. That's kind of an annoying quality about Goku. But hasn't that led to him losing several times throughout the series? Yeah, he definitely loses. But is it really a loss?
00:35:34
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? It is. 100% is, Alex, stop that. But what I'm saying is, what you just said helped me because now I sit down and think about it. That's a great argument and I love it because what leads you to believe that he won't do the same deploy, the same tactic again against Yusuke, because all we've seen this man do is underestimate characters throughout the whole series. And guess what? He's not getting, Oriama's not right in this fight. He's not. But wait a second, Goku is literally
00:36:04
Speaker
a god like he's that's why it's like like he's literally a god and I mean form he can't keep that form in the enemy in the manga he can but in the end they want to fight with use let's be clear here let's be clear here use K got body by a car in episode one
00:36:42
Speaker
Save a life, dammit. That wasn't in danger. Bro, how many times does Goku save the universe? Bro, he does that, like, every Tuesday.
Analyzing Goku's Battles and Strength
00:36:51
Speaker
He dies and comes back. He saved the universe from death. Can I put this out there? Because in the fucking canon, they have him saving the universe from Cell. And he didn't save the universe from Cell. So he has a lot of recognition to save. Did that happen? That's really wrong. Well, it's the father-son Kamehameha.
00:36:58
Speaker
Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool. Go cool.
00:37:12
Speaker
because- Oh, well, okay. But that was still ultimately Gohan. Exactly. But he still gets credit for it. That's my point. So you can't say he saved the world so many times when he really does it. If you- Oh, okay. Fine. One, one time. Reckon times. I'll give you another time. With Vegeta. With Raditz.
00:37:30
Speaker
How many times do you need? Because it was Piccolo's special beam cannon that took out Raditz. Not good. I don't think the world was actually really in danger during that Raditz fight, though. If there weren't any other Saiyans on that planet, they probably would have destroyed the planet. I'm saying, but that's the argument against you, right? The Saiyans actually destroyed planets. That's the thing.
00:37:51
Speaker
I'll say this. That's okay. That's a fair point. Okay. Let's ask ourselves this. Do we think that, like, not super broly, not yellow hair broly, but like, regular form broly from... Base form? Yeah, base form broly. Do you think Yusuke would beat him? From legendary Super Saiyan? No, I don't think... Well, I don't think broly... No, I don't think broly...
00:38:15
Speaker
I don't think, I don't think any of the characters that we have in this bracket outside of maybe say Tama could give him a fight. That's just me. I, I just, I think you literally seen it. Not even. Oh, you're talking about Broly. Sorry. Sorry. Who had the fuse? Goku had the fuse to be Broly. He had the fuse with super Broly. Yellow hair. Are you talking about the movie?
00:38:41
Speaker
Yeah. Wait, wait, wait, wait, yeah. You're talking about second coming, right? Yeah. I'm talking about pre-level up. I'm talking about base form Broly versus base form Goku before like Broly went legendary Super Saiyan. Oh, Goku won that. Well, Goku won that fight, but he had to get the energy from everybody. He had to get the, he had to like Vegeta, Gohan, who else was on there? Like,
00:39:10
Speaker
Who else went with that? Krillin, probably. Everybody who was, oh, Piccolo. I think there's one other thing to note, please, before we keep going. Since we are using the anime, I think this is important to note. So we saw Goku in Ultra Instinct. And yes, Travis, that what you said is correct. That would make him a god, right? That would make him a god for the time that he is in that form. But. His tone. Huh? But no, no, I think this is important to note.
00:39:39
Speaker
When we saw the tournament of power, the tournament of power was in a different dimension, but they told us, the narrator told us how much time has passed. The longest we've seen Goku use Ultra Instinct up until this point has been less than a minute, spurts of less than a minute. If Yusuke
00:40:00
Speaker
can survive one. And I think it's a there's an argument to be made that he can survive one of those shirts. That's a big if you think that you survive one minute under ultimate instinct with Goku ultra instinct. But the reason that it matters if he can if he can survive one minute is because the form of Goku we're talking about. He has not
00:40:24
Speaker
He has, every time he's used that Ultra Instinct and he finishes it, after a minute, he's in the bill of pain pain and he needs to recover and gets his key back. So he can even go to a base Super Saiyan one. With that being said. Let's just start with that he doesn't need to go to Ultra Instinct to take out Yusuke. I'm saying. What makes you think that? I'm confused about that. I'm confused about that. Because you think Yusuke can't beat Krump?
00:40:52
Speaker
Oh my god, bruh, bruh. Are you about to go? Super Saiyan 2 Goku would run Yusuke out the building. Well, look, look. Super Saiyan 2, that's what I'm including like Super Saiyan 3. Look, I'll say it this way. I'll put it this way. I think.
00:41:13
Speaker
And we've only seen him do this once since, so I was gonna put it out there. I think that there's a valid argument that if Goku rises up through his levels of Super Saiyan, he can exhaust Yusuke. He can exhaust all of Yusuke's resources in terms of like his reserves, the spirit energy and demon energy. I agree with that. We saw him do that versus Beerus when he was testing out Beerus and he went Super Saiyan 2, 3, God, and then he tapped out there, right?
00:41:40
Speaker
I agree with that. I think that's a valid argument. The problem is that was the only time we see him go up that progressively go up his power levels. Every other time he jumps to blue immediately. And jumping to blue and then going to Kyle Ken into the blue, he exhausted his resources, his energy that much faster. All I'm saying is if Yusuke, which I've not heard anybody say a reason why, he would not be able to outlast
00:42:10
Speaker
that energy barrage that he, if he can outlast it, and then tap into his reserves, he can win the fight. A one-off fight. So you're saying Yusuke is stronger than Jiren, because, all right, you're saying Yusuke is at similar power levels to Jiren, who could withstand that barrage from Goku.
00:42:31
Speaker
But the thing is, I don't think we even need to jump to Jiren because Jiren isn't the first character we've seen surpass or take a barrage from Goku in Super Saiyan Blue and Kaioken.
00:42:43
Speaker
That's the problem. We've seen that they literally nerfed that that form so many times by seeing other characters of lower status survive. Fighting him that. I just don't think that this is even realistic because Yusuke, I mean, even just his one of his abilities, right, like the spirit bomb, like, can't he just take, can he just absorb all of like,
00:43:04
Speaker
all of use case spirit energy relatively easily? I mean, like if you. Well, no, I don't think so because you don't, you have to willingly give your energy to use the spirit bomb. We believe in consent in 2021. Um, but even if that, even if you want to go that route, one,
00:43:29
Speaker
take all of his spirit energy while he is charging up to do the Spirit Bomb, which we know takes historically five episodes.
00:43:47
Speaker
I think that is disrespectful. Can we vote Emerson off the island and put him out of his misery already?
00:44:06
Speaker
We're talking about who's a better character. Yusuke's a better character. Yusuke is a better character. We're talking about a one-off fight, and I think that we have historically seen Goku underestimate his opponents, make mistakes. And we haven't seen that from Yusuke. One, and two, even Yusuke's...
00:44:27
Speaker
I think the ultimate attack from Goku has to be the Spirit Bomb. It just has to be, because everybody else can do a command man. And if we can agree that his ultimate attack is the Spirit Bomb, and even using Alex's argument that Yusuke's Spirit Energy will go to the Spirit Bomb, he has demon energy.
00:44:45
Speaker
What stops him from hitting him with a super spirit gun, or a mega spirit gun, as it's called? Then he can use his gun. Or a mega teaming gun. And he still moves. While he's charging up. We've never seen anybody attack Goku while he's charging up. He can, so let's put it. So let's say that Yusuke goes in full demon form, right? Like, let's just give that, he's fully powered up. Like, he's... Okay, let's be real. Even within the world of Yu Yu Hakusho, Yusuke is not a broken character.
00:45:14
Speaker
He is balanced. He's a balanced character, like every other character in the show. That's why the show is so good. And I think that if we're gonna use that argument, we have to, I agree. And we're talking about cosmic proportions in Goku's world. In the world of Dragon Ball Z, it is cosmic universal. And in his cosmic universal world, he is broken.
00:45:40
Speaker
Goku could just destroy Earth by powering up. We haven't seen him do these things. Allegedly. King Kai won't even let him train on his planet because he destroys it just by training. He said, get off my lawn. It's more like a moon, honestly. King Kai's place is more a principal moon. Let's not do that. Let's not do that, ma'am.
00:46:11
Speaker
Clearly I see what you guys are doing. And I just want the world to know that I did the best I could do to use K. I tried. I tried really. If we're going to use the fact that he's balanced against him and not use the fact that Goku is coming up with these characters, Senzu Beans, when they are down,
00:46:29
Speaker
give them sensitive means and not use it and not use that against him. It's fine. I'm still mad about Ben and Maru by the way. I knew it. And it's okay. Now we're both a disgruntled animators.
Meruem's Strategy Against Goku
00:46:46
Speaker
All right. Clearly Goku gets this at least it wasn't at least it wasn't a unanimous decision. Damn it. And that's my solace. I hate you all.
00:46:56
Speaker
All right, so the next round is Benimaru versus Satama. We got who? Benimaru versus Satama. Say it again in his heart. Benimaru versus Satama. Let's see. I think Benimaru would win. That's who I'm voting for.
00:47:24
Speaker
Actually, Nelson, are you actually voting for him? I need to know. No. No. I already put it down. I already put it down. It's OK. Get this man on the beat. He said F that F Benny Morrow and everything he stands for, man. Let's see. I'm kind of open to just hearing what people's arguments are. Do I have to take a stance now? Oh, I can come back to you.
00:47:52
Speaker
Alex, who do you have? Oh, no. This is hard because I don't really, I don't really.
00:48:15
Speaker
I don't really rock with one punch when it's super heavy. So I don't know as well. But I do think he probably would be Benny Maru, I think. Because we haven't seen him really put in any effort, work, or energy. So especially if he did make him try, I think Saitama would be Benny Maru.
00:48:40
Speaker
He's called one punch man for a reason. He beats everybody in one punch. So Alex, was that Saitama? Yeah. Like hesitantly. Yeah. I'll put an asterisk. I'll put an asterisk. All right. Nelson, who did you have? Saitama. Okay. Well, I have Saitama because unlike all, all for one, we actually have seen that this man Saitama is immune.
00:49:10
Speaker
to certain types of attacks. And I don't think any of Benimaru's most powerful attacks would face Seitama. It might mess up his uniform now, but I don't think it would face him. And you think it would face Awful. I cannot believe it. I'm sick. Well, do you think Seitama would be all for one in one-on-one, Nelson?
00:49:37
Speaker
Yes, he's one punch man. He's one punch man. All right, Travis, are you voting for him? I mean, OK, it looks like it's Seidama. That's what I'm voting for. That's what you're voting for? Yeah. I just want to see if we have a unanimous, because the only solos I can take from this is so far the only not, well, we have two non-unanimous and one is Yusuke. So that's the only one I can take away from this. I hate you all still. All right. Next, we have.
00:50:07
Speaker
He would have helped you out. Kawan is rational. And that's why I believe in him. But the next round is Merum versus Goku. That's so interesting. This is a good match up. This is the best one that we've had yet. Alex, you're kicking this one off, ma'am. Oh, you make me start the argument because I could argue for either character. So do that.
00:50:35
Speaker
You don't have to say who you're voting for right now if you don't want to, because the next round is the final. And we already know one of our finalists, Seitama. Seitama versus Goku would be interesting, or Seitama versus Meruem. I probably would also have to go for Goku.
00:51:03
Speaker
I think that's, I think it would have to be Goku because no, because even within the world of Hunter, Hunter. He's broken. He actually is broken. The bedroom is broken. So. Oh man.
00:51:24
Speaker
Does Goku give Merrima sense of being like he probably would because he probably had fun. I don't want to hear that argument now because you didn't think about that when you say I don't want that. I know I know I just waxed you. Here's your powers back. Yeah, I still think maybe Goku just because
00:51:55
Speaker
Goku, oh God. I think Goku has a little bit more diversity in his abilities, maybe. I think he's got more range than, now granted, even within Dragon Bells, when has a ranged attack ever actually taken out the enemy, like ever? Never. Except for the Tournament of Power, because it wasn't to kill him, it was to, you know, push him off the platform. Yeah. And so,
00:52:23
Speaker
which scarily looks like normal. So in Goku. I made that comparison between appearance and powers. There's a lot of, there's a lot of parallels. And Cell did beat Goku. He didn't beat him. He waxed him. Okay. Honestly, going and Goku are like... Yeah, but let's be honest though. Like the only reason I think, cause that was back when, um,
00:52:49
Speaker
Was it Toriyama? I forgot the animator or the writer.
00:52:55
Speaker
Yeah, wasn't Toriyama trying to make Gohan the new MC? So he switched gears like halfway after he realized that like Gohan's character arc didn't match the original themes of the show. So like he kind of realized like having a character in a world that I've built where the main character just wants to get stronger and stronger, switching the entire ethos of the show to someone who's
00:53:19
Speaker
kind of like, well, I just want to be a normal boy. It's probably not like a good switch up to make in the show. Pinocchiat. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, man. If you don't leave the great say a man alone, leave the great say a man alone. But that's why they nerfed so bad. What a fall from greatness, man. They really just played them out.
00:53:49
Speaker
He was fantastic. He really was like, if he could have easily been great, but then he just stopped training. And that was not anyway. But thinking about Goku. Yeah, I think Goku probably beats my room. But I also I am that is a big asterisk because I can be swayed pretty easily, I think. Okay, okay. Who wants to go into anybody being in to go next? I'll go next. Okay, okay.
00:54:15
Speaker
So looking at it from an analytical scouting perspective, I got a couple crucial questions. We've seen Meruem fight one time against Netero. And the way that Meruem won was slowly and surely he was able to basically outlast Netero. But you know, Netero had a little something-something for him in his chest. So it comes down to a couple questions for me. Number one, is Meruem fast enough to get an attack off on Goku?
00:54:44
Speaker
And for that, we have to ask, is Goku faster than Netero's punch attack Buddha thing? And then the second question is, is Goku's like key power radioactive? Because if launching like a nuke level power up, if that actually, you know, put some like plutonium or some like uranium in the air, we already know that Netero or that Marowam is going to lose.
00:55:15
Speaker
If it doesn't, this becomes a much tougher fight, because then you have to ask, can Meruem, who's got stamina, but not that much strength or speed, match up against Goku, who's kind of the king of strength and speed, but doesn't have that much stamina. Hold on, why are you saying Meruem doesn't have strength?
00:55:36
Speaker
He does, but not enough to straight up overpower. Like he couldn't just like punch through Netero, like the Buddha drink. Gotcha. Yeah. So we've got to ask, is Meruem analytically going to be able to beat Goku? Or is Goku just going to overpower Meruem with strength? And I honestly think Goku's winning this fight hands down.
00:56:08
Speaker
for the same reasons that I had Goku reigning. Like if you told me the fight lasted for 20 minutes, I would say that Meruah might have a chance, but I don't think it's gonna last longer than like four. So Goku's got it. All right, Jiggy Rico. So I was trying to get my, I was trying to trigger my memory about
00:56:37
Speaker
what Meruom's nen ability was. And it's like, he's a specialist, right? And he can and he creates his own nen. Like it's, I think it's called like aura or something like that. Like it's, it's all like,
00:56:54
Speaker
It's something he has synthesized himself. And so that kind of makes me wonder that should he continue to, like, consume more Nen users or, you know, be able to strengthen his Nen in some way? I'm wondering if they're actually, huh?
00:57:13
Speaker
I would just say that's a really good argument because like my world's really numb relatively to like go for less time to like- So it's Yusuke! What are you saying? Oh my gosh! Yusuke doesn't have net though. Yusuke doesn't have net though. He is an endless resource or reserve of demon and spirit energy. What the fuck? I was not aware of that. I said I didn't see- What the fuck?
00:57:38
Speaker
I said I didn't see the show. Why didn't you bring that up? If I can't, look, if I can't re-litigate Betamaru, then Emerson, you can't re-litigate Yusuke. You can move on to a new fight now. I don't want to litigate. No, I'm going to sit in. And so I was, uh, I was thinking about that because
00:58:01
Speaker
Like Nelson was saying, I don't necessarily, I don't know if I would argue that Netero is more powerful than Merrim, even though, tech, I guess he lost that fight. Like the toss up is, you know, who won that fight and based off of what, in one context. And so I do wonder if we're really just going ability to ability, like hand to hand combat. I need an answer, sir.
00:58:29
Speaker
Can I talk through my reasoning? Are you in a rush? You have somewhere to be? I thought we were having a podcast. Well, we gotta get to the final, so we can get some brackets, sir. As I was saying before I was rudely interrupted. So the other thing I think about is just back to the Goku argument originally, which that he is universally like God-level capability can destroy entire planets.
00:58:59
Speaker
I don't know if Meruam is powerful enough on that level because we never had that opportunity. So I guess if we're talking about the limits as to what we know on both characters, I guess I will have to give it to Goku.
00:59:19
Speaker
Um, we've, we've seen what we, we know, we know where Goku lies as far as a being is concerned. And I think that there's too many things up in the air for Merrim for me to be convinced that he would be able to be Goku and a one-off battle situation. But I would really like to like, I don't know, it would be cool to see him get resurrected in some way, but we know it's not going to happen. But.
00:59:47
Speaker
Yeah, that is okay. That was a very long winded way of saying Goku, which matters because that would be the third person. So I, uh, I had, uh, yeah, that's not how I wanted to know. I was like, just say your answer because it seemed like you were going towards Goku and now we know. So we're going to put Goku in the final. Cause clearly that is the third, but this one is not unanimous. I had Marowam beating Goku, um, mostly because.
01:00:17
Speaker
There are a lot of barriers. Remember, I had an asterisk. You can convince me. I mean, yeah, but then we still need to convince one more other person. I mean, I'm not. Yeah, I want to hear this. Mine is kind of with an asterisk as well. Oh, my gosh. No, no, no. Don't do this, y'all. It's Goku. All right, so I'll tell you, my line of thinking was this, right? So like, initially, I saw this and I was like, Goku, I think when you look at this bracket in general, you could just say,
01:00:46
Speaker
looking at both halves as Goku versus Satama. But with Merum, I think he presents an interesting challenge to Goku because he will probably be the smartest fighter or smartest opponent that Goku's ever faced. Merum is genius level intellect.
01:01:01
Speaker
I think as a strategist, he would know and he will be able to survey how to go about fighting Goku. He's going to analyze certain things. I thought Nelson brought up a really good point about the length of the fight. I think that matters in the sense of Murum will be able to gauge realistically. That's the other aspect of
01:01:23
Speaker
Of him that's kind of like slept on is how realistic of a thinker he is like he can really assess a situation This is gonna be the outcome if Goku doesn't waste him in one attack He will be able to gauge that he can't go hand-in-hand with Goku He'll be able to gauge like and then he will immediately start thinking about a strategy That's the first thing that made me think about I was like, all right Have we seen Goku actually like destroy a smarter fighter? We haven't seen him do that not in my opinion that's first to the
01:01:53
Speaker
the, and I thought Travis is a good point that you brought up was just, um, didn't Netero actually beat Merrim? I say no.
01:02:02
Speaker
he did not beat him, right? What actually beat him was the poison, right? Even if he used like a poison or something against Goku. And Goku, yeah, and Goku is not gonna, I don't think Goku is gonna use the poison, but like he said, do we know how radioactive Goku's ki blast or whatever is? And like, if we're assuming that that is true, then yeah, you gotta give it to Goku. But I don't think there's anything that leads me to believe that there's that. We haven't heard of any character having any funky diseases except for Goku. Yeah, I don't think.
01:02:30
Speaker
I don't think that we can realistically consider that in this fight. So because of that, I think there are certain things that we need to, the other thing I think we need to analyze and nothing leads me to believe that Miram wouldn't be able to survive a ki blast. And if he can,
01:02:50
Speaker
There's nothing that says he can't, he can't either. I'll just think, I don't think he, I think he would avoid it. Honestly, that's what I would say. We did see in that fight with Netero, especially in terms of just, that's how come I push back on the speed and strength aspect of it. We've seen how fast he can react. Man moves like Netero could admit, I mean, Netero is also old, but Netero also admitted he can keep up with him in terms of speed and strength.
01:03:13
Speaker
I don't think Netero was really the bar that we should be using, but that is his only fight, so we have to. In terms of just some of his feats, in terms of knocking people's heads off with just a tail flick without trying, we can't say that this man doesn't have strength, just from a realistic standpoint. Yeah, but I agree with that. I do.
01:03:39
Speaker
But I do think that he doesn't touch his like, doesn't touch Goku strength. And unfortunately, I also don't think he would probably touch his speed because Goku can also use like Goku can teleport like, you know, around him pretty instantly. So like, it would probably be really, really hard, just from like that getting overpowered. Like, because I don't think if Goku really was putting it giving him hands, I don't actually think he'd have enough time to analyze and think. So I do think that the time length would matter.
01:04:07
Speaker
Yeah. And that's, I agree with that. I agree with that. And I, and that's how come I, I think, yeah, I think the timing matters. I will say that just the pushback on the, we, we've seen characters react to Goku's teleportation, right? Like his instant transmission, um, and like other just speed, right? So if you, I'm not sure, I don't think, I don't think there's anything that leads me to believe like, yes, we know Goku super fast, but we also know Miram super fast. There's nothing that leads me to believe that he wouldn't be able to,
01:04:37
Speaker
react and after he reacts and notices and he's aware of that speed, there's nothing leads me to believe that he wouldn't be able to think of a counter-attack.
01:04:46
Speaker
I think literally the fight is more, it's gonna, I think it looks different. I don't think this is a fight that's gonna be straight up pause or straight up like blast attacks. I literally think it will be a battle of attrition. Like Miram with the whole time will be trying to figure out how can I get you to attack him? And I think if you look at it from that standpoint, you might come to a different outcome as opposed to these two characters without thinking are just gonna straight up fight because Miram showed us the whole time. He's a thinker. And it's interesting because Miram was also always learning
01:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's, I think that's almost like it depends on. It depends on, uh, do you think that this fight is taking place in the Dragon Ball universe or in the Hunter Hunter universe? Cause you know, in Hunter Hunter, they don't really fight. Like very rarely do you actually see them throw hands. They just.
01:05:34
Speaker
outthink each other to win fights. And in Dragon Ball, there is no outthinking. It's literally just, look, I got a higher power level than you. This is done with. I can prove it. I got a question for you all. In terms of actual fighting moves, of course, with increased strength and speed, I'll give you that. How much different is Marowon than Golden Frieza?
01:06:04
Speaker
He's... Frieza's got the tail. He's got the supersonic speed and, you know, the quickness and everything else. And couldn't beat Goku. Yeah. That's a cool comparison. Yeah, I think it's an interesting comparison. I think Miram can beat... I mean, obviously I think Miram can beat Goku, so I also think he can beat Golden Frieza. But I do think of all the fighters that Goku has fought since, like the original Dragon Ball Z series, Golden Frieza is a thinker.
01:06:34
Speaker
he's more he's a he's like probably the closest fighter he's fought, the closest person to Miram that he's fought. I would I agree with that. I think that's a good analogy. But I do think that Miram probably can beat him because I think this is an element to Frieza's losing to Goku that comes up that won't come up in a Miram fight. And that's emotion.
01:06:58
Speaker
like Miram does not include emotion in anything that he does, except for when he was dying with old girl. But outside of that, we never see him use any type of emotion he thinks is irrational. So I think he calls the man a monkey. And you hit me you monkey racist, and it allows him to charge up because he wants to call him a monkey. Like, yeah, I have another
01:07:25
Speaker
I have another question on that, because back to a point that you had made earlier, Emerson, even in Ultra Instinct, that lasts for less than a minute for Goku. So if Meruem can somehow someway strategically either power up his men and outlast Goku for just a minute, then
01:07:50
Speaker
he might have a solid chance because he manifests his own nen. And he can consume other people's nen to get more nen. I think that's interesting, especially because we use the argument to defeat Yusuke that Goku will be able to use spirit energy, like get spirit energy. Yeah. That's why I think
01:08:16
Speaker
I mean, no, I was saying, I was going to use that argument. You can use what Trevor just said from Marrow. What are you saying, Nelson? Yeah, I think if the fight lasts a long time, Marrow might actually pull it off and win. But if you told me the fight lasted, again, if you told me the fight lasted for three to five minutes, I would say Goku won.
01:08:41
Speaker
If you told me the fight lasted for 20, I would say Marrowam has a good chance. But even then, if it lasted for 20 minutes, I would still probably say it's a 50-50 shot that Marrowam, like the highest I'll be able to give Marrowam is like 50-50. And so I think it would just be over before then. I think Goku's just too strong.
01:09:08
Speaker
But I, I think that's fair. I just don't, I just want to put it out there. I don't, I just didn't think it was a wash. And I think that there, there are a lot of variables to this fight more so than any of the other fights that we've seen so far. Um, but yeah, you know, trying to look at it in a bathroom, I do think Goku wins, but I give Miram this one just because I think he.
01:09:27
Speaker
he's proven to me, at least, that he can think well enough and amass enough men to put together a string of moves. And he's smart enough to realize, I think, too, that if Goku is an Ultra Instinct, that one, it can be exhausted, and two, if you are attacking him and not allowing him to get off a powerful enough attack, it changes everything. Because you have to remember, when we see him use Ultra Instinct and he fought Jiren, none of his attacks while in a parry hurt Jiren.
01:09:56
Speaker
It was when he actually got away from him, got some distance, and then was able to charge up and do something. Same thing with even Khalifa, even though that one was kind of imperfect. But this is the other thing, though, to think about when it comes to, like, talking about Goku's speed. Goku fought Hit. You know, we don't really talk about, we've been talking, comparing him to Jiren, but he fought Hit, and Hit's whole ability and move is, like, that he could basically hit you in one, he could knock you out in, like,
01:10:25
Speaker
in a fraction of a second, like that was his ability. And like Goku eventually was catching up to him. But that, but I think that was more of him, like tell it hit telegraphing his moves than Goku being super fast. That was just my take on it. I was able to react like it was still his reaction time, even if he wasn't like, even if he wasn't like,
01:10:48
Speaker
predicting or, I mean, yeah, he was, he was predicting somewhat, but he was able to catch up to his super move and his super ability was like, he could not, he could perform an attack within literally like fractions of seconds. So I feel like, I think that's important, but I think that, you know,
01:11:10
Speaker
I was saying, I think that's cool to bring up, but the reason I don't really hang my hat on something like that is that speed difference did nothing later on. We haven't seen him use that speed difference again in another fight. Because if that speed difference was that powerful, he should have been able to lay licks on Jiren. That's just my take on it, though.
01:11:36
Speaker
If you're being real, it's really hard to use anything in the world of Dragon Ball Z to compare because they reset their power scaling almost every battle. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. All right, so Goku gets this one. And now we're down to the final. Saitama versus Goku.
Final Debate: Saitama vs. Goku
01:11:59
Speaker
Let it rip. I'm going to let this man Nelson go first.
01:12:07
Speaker
Okay, this is the toughest choice I've had to make so far today. If Saitama gets a punch in, he wins. He's one punch man. Nobody's ever survived it. That being said, Goku is Goku. So he's the one person liable to actually survive it. He's the most powerful character I think I've seen in any anime. But can he survive that one punch?
01:12:36
Speaker
To be honest, I don't think so. So in that case, the question becomes, can Saitama land that one punch? He's fast, fast as heck. I don't think he's Goku fast though. And I've never seen Saitama actually really, really, really, really take a hit. You don't remember the super serious sideways steps? I do. You don't remember how fast
01:13:06
Speaker
Like, yes. Then also, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. But Goku has instant transmission, number one. And then he also has ki blast. So he could just do the, you know, I'm going to do my way around and then bop, bop, bop, you out the paint. And so I think I got to give it to Goku.
01:13:34
Speaker
But okay, okay. Anybody else I would probably pick him. All right. All right. Alex, you next. I agree that that was the I agree. I think say Thomas punch would not Goku out if he could land one. But I think Goku is dodging in and duck in around any any of his singular punches because he's faster than him. Um,
01:14:01
Speaker
I don't think they would land a punch. I think a lot of what say Thomas fights are these arrogant, big, giant, colossal things that usually, I don't know. Like they usually try to go one to one. No, actually, Goku's not arrogant. Would let him punch him, I think. Exactly. I think Goku would probably be like, if one punch, if say Thomas said like, oh yeah, I usually knock them out on one punch, Goku would probably be like, try me. And just like stand there and let it happen.
01:14:32
Speaker
Yeah. So if he if he if he actually went about it in a way that was strategic, which we know is not Goku's mo. Um, Goku, I think does beat say Tama because say Tama doesn't have the chops to actually land a punch on him in a if it was a true battle, but if it's a real if we're being realistic, and we're incorporating personality into their into the equation, Goku at a pride is probably gonna let say Tama hit him.
01:15:03
Speaker
And I don't think, I don't think he'd be successful. That'll be the worst fight of all time. It's like, Oh yeah, you strong hit me. And then he hits him and then it's just over with. And then go back to being reset.
01:15:24
Speaker
give him a sense of being like allow him to do it. I believe it. I believe that if this had this about the fight would probably go as one punch man knocks him out of one hit. Goku gets a sense of being and now he's like, I can't let that happen again. And then maybe Goku can, you know, defeat Saitama from there. But like, if we're just talking about Oh, God, I that's a that'd be fun to see animated. But
01:15:50
Speaker
I would probably say Goku wins the war, but like Saitama wins a battle. So what's your answer? Is it Goku or Saitama? Well, don't do me like that. Okay. Um, I can come back to you if you want. Yeah, come back to me. Okay. All right. So where I stand right now,
01:16:18
Speaker
So I'll start by saying I'm actually leaning toward, say, Tama, but let me talk through it and make sure I'm convinced that I'm going to choose that. So the thing that I keep thinking about in this case, like we know powers and capabilities and all of those things, like those can be
01:16:39
Speaker
You can go tit for tat, I think, in a lot of ways between the two. So I'm considering much more than the previous fights in this one are their weaknesses and their limits and their capabilities. So when I think of Goku, like, you know, a lot of things, Alex, I definitely agree that in that very first
01:17:04
Speaker
If, if, if Goku is like, Oh yeah, hit me. And then he actually hits them. Like I say to him, I was like, yo, you sure, like you sure, bruh? He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's, let's, let's get it. Bop all the way to, yeah. I think he would, he'd be gasping for air and need a sense of being, you know what I'm saying?
01:17:25
Speaker
And we have also seen like Saitama like be like gods with one punch, like the same way that Goku has. So the thing is we have not seen the limits of Saitama's powers within a fight, especially because he has not taken any of these fights that seriously. He'll take it serious enough for one super serious punch.
01:17:54
Speaker
And that's it. That's all the investment that he'll put into it. The only actual limits that I can think of are the fact that he's human. And just as any human being has limits, I would imagine that Saitama is not excluded from that. So we know he doesn't have a tapped reserve of power.
01:18:16
Speaker
but we don't know where, we don't know where his limits lie. And so the way I think about it, Goku does have limitations and he has escaped fights by the skin of his teeth and he has lost a lot of fights kind of irrationally. And also when I think about like the fighting, if you go tit for tat by how many fights fought, how many fights won versus how many fights lost, like
01:18:41
Speaker
say tama's record is perfect he has not lost once you know what i'm saying and goku would lose and then continue to fight from death like there's a lot there's a lot that we know that
01:18:56
Speaker
has to kind of stop, like that will stop him or that will cap him from being able to, I think, do certain things. And so based off of this knowledge that we have as far as limits on capabilities and powers go, because to me, we don't know where that lies with, say, Tama, I could only imagine that if he really, really wants to, like, fuck somebody up, like really at the depths of his soul, like if somebody, like, pucks the wrong string, I think that
01:19:26
Speaker
it could be something really, really crazy. So I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna give mine to Say Tama with a willingness to be convinced, but I think I kind of feel very confident in that answer. Appreciate it, appreciate it. Yeah, I mean, this one for me was Say Tama, right? And I think it's Say Tama for a couple of reasons. One, we haven't seen him lose. Two, I don't,
01:19:56
Speaker
I don't think there's anything that leads me to believe that Saitama couldn't withstand a punch or an attack from Goku. Because the argument we used earlier and earlier rounds for Goku is that he's defeated cosmic level threats and whatnot. That was what Boros was. And we've seen Saitama defeat him. I think also, this art, this whole thing about- Just Saitama's like stamina life.
01:20:25
Speaker
I see an adorable person. His stamina, I don't think there's like a con... Like Travis said, we don't know his upper limits, but we haven't seen him exhausted ever. Which leads me to believe that he could get exhausted, but I don't know that he's going to get exhausted in this fight. I also think that... Sorry, what's up?
01:20:49
Speaker
I was going to say, one of the most interesting things about this fight to me is that both Goku and Saitama are characters who are always looking for someone stronger to fight. Like, Goku will take somebody's maximum strength and be like, hey, this was fun. Let's do this again. And Saitama walks around all day every day like, bro, I'm depressed because nobody can throw hands with me. And so I can't fight nobody. Yeah, like, I'm going to kill everyone.
01:21:17
Speaker
And he only really gets out of bed in the morning when there's an existential threat to wherever he's at. So actually, no. I might have to switch my vote. Y'all might convince me to say, Tom is it. Because when, say, Tom is engaged, he's unbeatable. He's never been beaten. He's never even really been- True. As far as we know. As far as we know. And then the other thing that's kind of killing me right now is
01:21:47
Speaker
And I said it last round, so I'm not not trying to be the dead horse. I don't think.
01:21:52
Speaker
that the speed differential that we keep talking about is as important as we're giving it credence because we've never seen Goku just rapid fire hit people and not let them get a licking. That's not how he fights. That's not his fighting style. He's a brawler. And because he's a brawler, Satama, I think it's more unrealistic to say Satama can't get a hit in as opposed to saying Satama knocks out Goku
01:22:22
Speaker
in one punch. I have a question who's going to want to brawl with him. And because of that, I think Saitama is going to knock him out. Yes, sir.
01:22:33
Speaker
Have we ever seen a fight where Saitama has actually gotten hit and he's just like ate a punch or ate an attack or like ate like, you know, whenever something got fired at him? Or has it been he has never gotten hit because he always gets out of the way? He gets hit.
01:22:56
Speaker
Taitama gets hit. That's the thing. That's like, that's why, that's how come I kept saying, like, I don't think there's anything that leads me to believe that he can't withstand an attack. Like when he fought Boros, he was getting hit against Boros. Right. And Boros was a cosmic level threat. So if we're going to say Goku, because he defeats cosmic universe, threatening things that will put Taitama on the same same field with him. And then we also in even the speed argument, right, like,
01:23:23
Speaker
This man fought Speedo Sonic. The man's name is Speedo Sonic. You know Taitama is fast. We can't say that, and I think the other thing that's kind of in going, and this goes against the hit argument for Goku, but it's like using someone's top speed
01:23:43
Speaker
in an instance doesn't mean they're going to be able to replicate and duplicate that continuously. So yeah, it's like absolute peak speed might be hired and say Thomas peak speed, but we don't know what his we don't know that in a fight that peak speed is going to be used sustained throughout the whole fight, which is like it's a fight. It's battle of attrition. It's not going to last that long. So I got to say Tom personally.
01:24:08
Speaker
I still have faith in my boy Goku, but I do think Saitama would probably win because Goku is arrogant. But I do think that they would enjoy fighting each other. I honestly think that they would enjoy, genuinely enjoy fighting each other. They'd probably be friends. They probably would keep fighting for fun and scrap. And they'd probably continue to make each other fantastically strong.
01:24:34
Speaker
Yeah, as a character, Saytama and Jiren kind of remind me of one another in that sense. Jiren's another dude who's just like, yeah, I like to fight people. And that's really what I like to do. And you can fight Goku, so I'm going to enjoy this. I will say this, though. Jiren wasn't enjoying it at the beginning because he mopped Goku at the beginning. Yeah, bro. He had to get there.
01:25:04
Speaker
Which, you know, I think should be an argument against them. But, you know, you good people said no. All right. So Nelson, Alex, are you staying with Goku or are you switching to Saitama? Because we have a tie. I was going to say I'll switch to Saitama. Nelson, what about you? Are you sticking with your... Wait, so now we're at 3-1? Well, yeah, with Alex's switch, Saitama has one out bracket. I just want to know if you're standing your ground or not.
Reviewing Anime Bracket Outcomes
01:25:31
Speaker
I got to give Goku a vote. I don't think it can be unanimous. So I got to stick with that. That's right. That's important. Yeah, it can be unanimous. So I got to give Goku his credit. Y'all really trying to play this man at this game. First of all, sir, go back somewhere. You being angry and disgruntled about Benimaru and letting it out on my man Yusuke for no reason.
01:25:59
Speaker
I still am. Clearly, as you took it out on Yusuke. So my guy say Tama has won his Meloninjas 2021 bracket. Now, now that we have a victor, I think Travis and Nelson both had some comments to make about the bracket in terms of some of the victors. But before we let them speak about this, I want to note again, that we put
01:26:26
Speaker
these characters in a generator. So some of the matchups, all of the matchups we saw at least the initial round was based off of a generator. So don't really complain about the positioning of characters, but feel free to say if they fought against somebody else, that's fine. That's a perfectly valid argument, but don't say they shouldn't be fighting against this character in the first round, they should fight somebody else because that wasn't on us.
01:26:51
Speaker
Yeah. My only comment was that Saitama was like a four seed. And I was like, there's no bracket in which One Punch Man should be a four seed. Oh, yeah. That was just a random. The seeds actually don't make it. It just literally, I think, was so it puts characters against each other. Yeah. OK, cool.
Alternative Matchups Explored
01:27:11
Speaker
I'll start.
01:27:12
Speaker
When I heard that this ragged was happening, the first matchup that I think I would have loved to see would be Akame got killed versus Mikasa Ackerman. I would have really, really loved to have that conversation. Yeah, I mean, I think it could have been a lot of different things. I think that
01:27:41
Speaker
Akame's poison blade is too sick. And Mikasa, I think that she's cold-blooded. Don't get me twisted. But all Akame would need is just a little nit.
01:27:55
Speaker
and then that gong sound and then and then it would be over. Although we still do not know the history of the acromance quite yet and this hidden ability that Mikasa has. I personally think that it she's been a Titan in some like she has Titan blood in her in some shape, waist size form or matter. Hey, I haven't watched this week's episode.
01:28:19
Speaker
I haven't watched this week's episode either. This is just complete conjecture with everything that's up to date, disregarding today. But anyways, just based on what we know, I think Akame probably would win that fight. But I'd be interested to hear what the arguments would be for and against.
Anime Character Battles
01:28:38
Speaker
I think, I haven't seen, I haven't seen, oh wait, nope, I agree with all those.
01:28:51
Speaker
Oh, this Demon Slayer one, I was a pretty, I would have been interested to kind of hear what that would have looked like. I think better than Tanjiro and Nezuko would be my, I totally forgot his name, but my man who created the 11th form, like the one who's like,
01:29:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I totally forgot his name. I would have loved to see him in this bracket. I also haven't seen Boogan Train yet, so I don't know where that lies. I can't wait to see it. Yeah. But I do, I don't know. I guess in that match, a mirror room would have won, but I would have been interested in mirror room versus the other guy for sure.
01:29:47
Speaker
Y'all think Uno from Black Clover would beat Mikasa? I think so. I think so. I think just because- I think Uno would beat Mikasa too. He would just have to blow a gust of wind at her. I mean, she has to, relies on these ODM, omnidirectional maneuver here. It's gonna run out of fuel too, and she's gonna run out of blades. Yeah, and if they fought, and especially in an open environment, like Uno is destroying her.
01:30:15
Speaker
But if they fought, let's say that they fought in the trees, I still think that, you know, could just keep, if he keeps the gust of wind on her, she couldn't be as agile as she needs to be to get to him. Not even with the ODM gear, I guess. Well, yeah, like he could just consistently keep the, he could just create, let us it a magic field and like keep it to where she just doesn't have, like she can't freely,
01:30:43
Speaker
It would be easy for him to control the environment to where she can't move very like maneuver very freely, I
Naruto vs. Other Anime Characters
01:30:49
Speaker
think. Okay. It was if he if he couldn't do that, but then that's now we're talking about nerfing him. But if he if he could not do that, and it was in her territory in every way, and you know, could not do anything except like throw magic at her, I still think he probably still win in all honesty, but but let's say that he couldn't.
01:31:10
Speaker
she would have a much better chance. But I think it would never rise over 50%. Okay, okay, I can feel that. Now, one thing I've been interested in, I would have loved to see like Goku and Naruto. Now I have not seen, I have not seen a bleach. Is that where Ichi goes from? Yeah.
01:31:38
Speaker
Ichigo would really beat Naruto? Like, why did y'all say that? Because I would imagine Naruto and Goku would be, that would be very debatable. We had Ichigo beating Naruto? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. No, say Tama. Oh, no, no, no. Say Tama beating Naruto. Oh, my B might be okay, okay, okay. Okay, never mind then. Oh, that makes sense. I don't know who would win against Ichigo versus Naruto, but probably Naruto.
01:32:06
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think Naruto. He only has Rasengan. He's got Rasengan, he's got bigger Rasengan, he's got the biggest Rasengan. He's got red Rasengan, he's got green Rasengan. Exactly. I guess I didn't really have as many problems with this bracket as I thought.
01:32:37
Speaker
Look, you were trying to be rational. And the only irrational thing, I think, for real, for real, that happened on this is that y'all motherfuckers, like, you scared get knocked out. But outside of that, I think it was pretty fair.
Conclusion and Reflections
01:32:48
Speaker
No, bro. Zorro, I think, was the most irrational out of these. I don't think it was irrational how far he got, just given the characters. Having Ben Amaro be awesome is just so ridiculous. I can't. My stomach hurts.
01:33:04
Speaker
Physically, my body rejects the idea of some dude with a really powerful lighter in his pocket beating the culmination of all of the court. My goodness. Well. A lighter in his pocket. Go home and feel better, Nelson. Go home and feel better.
01:33:32
Speaker
And for the record, Benny Marle doesn't need a lighter because he can make his own flames. Oh, he is the lighter. All right. Well, on that awkward joke note, you know what? That's going to be included in the. I'm sure it will be. I'm sure it will be. We appreciate you guys. There was a lot of debate throughout this bracket. Even when we first saw it based off the generator, we were like, huh?
01:34:00
Speaker
Um, but you know, I think we came to a rational solution. Um, and you know, long live plot armor and Goku. All right, guys. Appreciate you. Thanks for having us, man. Thanks for having us, Alex. Yeah. They still did. Goku's are going so wrong. That's the last thing I have to say. Yeah.
01:34:32
Speaker
Ice in my veins, colder than freeze I'm protecting my own like cocoa and Vegeta This is my story, pain in the glory Taking it back all of my territory Black of the berry, the sweet of the juice Stock of the flesh, deep as the roots And my life's just a proof that I rock When melanin just gets you by, forget Laughing in the face of danger Flexing my guns and the eye of defeat I am the voice of the night Of all of my people, a mission, a power in me Deep in my genes, this is my destiny This is my legacy, won't get the best of me
01:35:01
Speaker
I miss the compress
01:35:06
Speaker
Like oh god, gave my brother, can you pass me the wasabi? Nigga, I'm black as fuck and proud of it, I won't be modest, no Ain't no blockin' me, I overcome every obstacle Like the rose out of the concrete, I accomplish the impossible Like Barack and Bakugo, yeah, I'm unstoppable Still I rise from the ashes, mama told me never settle And if I can handle all that I got down, I'm made for metal
01:36:05
Speaker
Black as my skin, power within