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E44: James Maddock (Jimmy & Immy)
208 Plays4 days ago
Counting Crows fans might know him best as half of "Jimmy and Immy". If so, they are missing out on James Maddock's amazing career as a singer/songwriter of folk and Americana--spanning four decades with more than ten studio albums.
Join us, as Maddock reflects on life on the road with the Crows, how he met Immy, how Dawson's Creek changed his life, and the personal experiences that continue to shape his songwriting.
For more information on James, check out
His new single (with Immy in the video)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Guest James Maddock
00:00:17
Speaker
All right. Welcome to the Sullivan Street Podcast. Chris, glad to have you here. and Glad to be here. I love interviewing people, and we have another great guest. What what do we say, Chris? Crows adjacent or or whatever? um But someone who with just decades of singing, songwriting experience, has toured with the Crows, has a project with one of the Crows members. Crows fans might know him as part of Jimmy and Emmy. but you should know him as James Maddock.
00:00:47
Speaker
James, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be
James Maddock's Musical Roots
00:00:52
Speaker
here. it was It was so great. I got a chance. you know i As Chris knows, obviously I've been fans with Crows for a while, but I and i i almost saw them live just in a certain segments when I had free time. Like their fourth album, I got to see them like six times, and recently I've seen them like five, six times. But sometimes I didn't know all the different live things they were doing, and I i used to get confused hearing like, oh, what what is the Shim Sham show and Devil and the Bunny show and all these things. And I've heard of Jimmy and Emmy.
00:01:20
Speaker
And I knew something about it, but just never researched a lot. And as as James knows, I got to see them in Spain. or went to Spain to see the Crows this year, and I got to see you perform twice. And I was like, okay, finally, I'm seeing Jimmy and Emmy. And it was great. And yeah, so James, before we get into Jimmy and Emmy, let's just talk a little bit about your career. Very...
00:01:45
Speaker
I guess prolific is the right word career. You've been doing it a long time. You have something like 10 studio albums plus albums with bands, I guess two or three, plus a bunch of live recordings. So maybe first talk about when you kind of knew or had, you know, had you start to get into music, one of these, like you were five years old and knew you wanted to play with a band, all that kind of stuff.
Journey from the UK to New York
00:02:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah, and when I was a kid, my grandfather was a ah in the war. where He was a ah you ah you even a George Formby impersonator. You won't know George Formby, I doubt, but he was a very famous English ukulele George Harrison loved George Formby, and he played the ukulele, and he was like a huge star in in England in the the the during the war. And kind of during that period and after that period, my grandfather kind of made a living it made somewhat of a living being like a ah in what you might call one of the very early tribute bands. He was a George Formby fan.
00:02:46
Speaker
He was a George Formby tribute artist and he used to play the working men's clubs in the u in in Leicester and everything. And he would do George Formby really, really well. So he was a great ukulele player, my granddad. And he taught me a few chords on the ukulele when I was about five or six. So I started to play the ukulele and then and there was a guitar line around the house. And i i if you can play the ukulele, you can kind of play the guitar. And I discovered that. That was a big discovery. I guess at the age of about 14, I started to play the guitar more seriously.
00:03:19
Speaker
and ah became obsessed with guitar and started to play music more and more and then realized that ah I really didn't want to do anything else. So I somehow was able to somehow just kind of avoid proper work and just just keep doing music in all kinds of different ways. And, you know, I've been able to make a living doing it since I was a kid, really, 17, 18.
00:03:44
Speaker
That's great. So I guess just doing different clubs and and like I guess it's almost like the comedy circuit, right? You do it and you meet people and you get connected and people find you out. Obviously in those days I was playing a of cover. It was cover band stuff. was ah I played in Irish bands in Leicester. We toured all the Irish clubs around the Midlands. So i played all that kind of traditional music. And then ah before that I was doing like...
00:04:08
Speaker
i mean like We call it kind of Kaylee dancing, square dance okay kind of stuff, folk stuff. So i did all that. And, you know, then I did a cover band stuff. We were playing the top 20. And I had that band in Leicester. I moved to London. i got a bunch of record deals and publishing deals and kept playing music and just was able to just kind of keep going.
00:04:31
Speaker
And I noticed this when, oh, sorry, please, Chris. i was going to say, what ended up bringing you to um New York? Because you've been in in the US for about, I think, like 25 years, right? but Yeah. but Well, it's I was coming here more and more with the, i I got a record deal on Columbia Records in the late 90s. And I was coming more and more.
00:04:46
Speaker
And um I was getting bored of London. I'd been in London for 20 years. And it just was not happening at all for me. And ah New York just seemed so much more exciting place to live. And then I was out one night. And then I met this girl.
00:05:01
Speaker
And then one thing led to another. She said, why don't you come and live with me in New York? And so I said, yeah, that's a good idea. So I moved over. we were together, you know, and that we got married and everything. We were together for a number of years. That, you know, that ended and I stayed. And that i just kind of stuck it out.
Musical Influences and Style
00:05:21
Speaker
is Yeah. That, that, Your story, it it happens, right? this is you're You're not the first person to have gone through that journey. It's like Adam always says this. It's always a girl. Right.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. I was going to ask similar thing. and i've I read in preparation for this show, I read a couple of your interviews, and I guess yeah not only do they ask you similar question about moving to the U.S., but they also say, i guess with some ironic or you know things you've heard before – I hate to pigeonhole people's music, but I guess some of yours described as Americana, right, or classic Americana, and with Bruce Springsteen influences, Neil Young, Eagles, etc., but you were from the UK. um so that's obviously a bit of an interesting story, too. I certainly yeah i was brought up on the Beatles and the in the Stones and you know and those kind of English pop music as well. So I was very much influenced and
00:06:17
Speaker
It's in my blood, you know, the ink whether it's, you know, Slade, T-Rex, the Beatles, all of those things were huge influences on me. And then, you know, when I started to play the guitar, I...
00:06:32
Speaker
I found my way to the West Coast singer-songwriter traditions, you know whether it's Neil, obviously Young's from Canada, but you know that kind of Jackson Browne, Eagles acoustic, Neil Young, ah and the band, of course, the band's second album. Those kinds of acoustic-led singer-songwriter stuff was what I was in into.
Touring Stories and Audience Interaction
00:06:58
Speaker
But I was also hugely hugely into top early Tom Petty albums and, um you know, obviously the first couple of Bruce albums I loved. And I'm a huge Dylan fan.
00:07:08
Speaker
so And then obviously I got into like John – I was a big, huge John Martin fan. And I loved all the Randy Newman records and Tom Waits and Kate and Anna McGarry. And so I'm – I'm all in there, you know, I'm all in there with that kind of huge amalgam of English Americana, Beatles, Bruce, Dylan, Neil Young, you know, I love all that kind of vibe, I suppose. that That's where, you know, Delamitri, you remember that band from Scotland? Love that band, you know.
00:07:40
Speaker
Just try and write songs that just work on a guitar and um I can stand behind and that you know, that's where I am. mar That's where I live. Yeah. And and I, even when I heard the the songs in Spain, it was, I couldn't find the set list. Like they, they had your set list of a lot of the shows in the last European tour, the Spain ones. Cause some of those shows you did six. I kind of think you might've didn't, might've done more in Spain, maybe seven or eight. I could be wrong. I don't know. six yeah I had, no, I had half an hour really. And I,
00:08:09
Speaker
yeah And we kind of didn't know. There was a clock. And I did desperate. The first night, I i went way over my time. yeah And they I completely didn't... I blame him because ah he wasn't telling me to stop. And I got told off after that. So he went way over. went like six minutes over.
00:08:28
Speaker
And I really did not want to do that. It was a huge mistake, and I felt really guilty about it So we we ah we had a strict half an hour. Sometimes we would go on five minutes early to make sure we could get through the songs. But there's a number of songs that we definitely featured.
00:08:43
Speaker
you know because emy Because I got Imi with me, and he's on the mandolin, um yeah it presented a few problems. because i had ah Some of them were in Dadgad. And then there was an open G tuning. So there's like three different tunings throughout the set. And it's really a mindfuck to like tune on stage in front of 10,000 people. It's not it's not something that you want to do. But we had this set which suited the mandolin, suited the Jimmy and Immy vibe.
00:09:10
Speaker
And that was kind of the the same five or six songs that we did every night. so Mainly because it it was... It was the Jimmy and Immy half an hour, you know. Yes. Slightly different thing. ah I was a bit, not restricted, but those songs worked the best. Oh, yeah. And some of those, um like, you know, you can get the crowd to sing along. i Yeah. I know you enjoyed that. That was unbelievable. mean, that was Willie Niles' idea. He was saying to me, you've got to get the crowd singing along with ah when the sun's out, which goes... ah oh o He loves it. And that's not really my style. I don't do that sing-along thing. But we did it the first night because I could hear Willie in my ear. And it worked. Everybody sang along. And then I thought, oh.
00:09:54
Speaker
Fucking hell, okay, I've got to do it. So we did that, and then we've got that song, Keep Your Dream, which has got that. And everybody everybody joined in, like, I couldn't believe it. Every night it was really, blew my mind that people were so supportive of what we were doing, and it just became part of the gig, part of the show, so it was amazing.
00:10:14
Speaker
yeah the two And for those listening who may not know, Willie Nile, consummate songwriter. I've been seeing him around New York for, I don't know, 20 years at least on my end. i actually saw him open for the Crows in a Rainstorm in Buffalo in like 2013. show.
00:10:30
Speaker
ah yeah Yeah, he's not he's unbelievable, Willie. He's my hero. i love him so much and he is so inspirational to me. Putting out great songs, great albums. His live gigs are unbelievably brilliant. I think some of the best gigs I've ever seen are Willie Nile gigs.
00:10:47
Speaker
And I'm a huge fan and supporter of the man. So if you want to know, and if you if you get the chance, definitely you know look into Willie Nile. He's magic man.
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, so even though you'll, and yeah, anyway, I was just going to say it was fun to hear the Spanish crowd, of I guess other crowds, that probably in the uk you got it a lot too, but the Spanish crowd loved singing along with, the they were so loud. my, yes. In London, in london it was there was there's like 8,000 or 9,000, 10,000 people, and when you i couldn't really see them because it's like when you're on stage, you can't see anything.
00:11:18
Speaker
And then ah when I hear them singing, I'm like, oh my God, there's a lot of people out there. um You know what? I'll link it to our podcast episode, too. I do think the six that you played basically every night are ah are a nice little, I don't know, buffet or appetizer style for people to get to know you. So correct me if I'm wrong about this. So the first two, I think it's almost three two two from each album. So you had two from Green, which was Once There Was a Boy Part 1 and Ragdoll.
00:11:46
Speaker
Yeah. And then two from Wake Up and Dream, which would be Keep Your Dream and Beautiful Now. Yeah. And then two from Sunrise on Avenue C, When the Sun's Out and Hollow Love, which I think is a great ender, Hollow Love. It's a great song. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so there's, you know, that's right. And, you know, Hollow Love's in Open G. So I had that second guitar with me. Thankfully, they let me use that. And then the first two were in Dadgad, which is, a for those people who don't know, it's a tuning on the guitar, which I...
00:12:15
Speaker
I had to get out of, at the end of Ragdoll, had to retune the guitar into m into concert and that was just, okay, it's not that difficult, but you can get lost you know with the tunings, but somehow and i managed to get through it. That was definitely the most stressful part of the night.
00:12:33
Speaker
Retuning the guitar is not it can be a nightmare, but it was okay. Chris, did you have a follow-up question before we get into the history of Jimmy and Emmy? Well, no, it's interesting because we're talking about the tour. um It's interesting. How how did... or so it sounds like the crowds were pretty good on the whole. Were there any sort of like standouts or was it like on the whole like really good crowds in terms being receptive? Wembley was incredible because obviously ah I saw Springsteen there. I saw Rykuda there. It was the biggest gig of the tour. There was like 10,000 people and it was my hometown kind of. So that was really incredible. But... um
00:13:08
Speaker
I couldn't really pull one out of the bag. They were all really, it was such an honour to be on the tour and there's so many gigs and they were all, they all were just beautiful gigs and I, ah know it's just loved every minute of it. And it was, um yeah, I couldn't, can't really think of one particular one. They were all great. You know, I really was such a thrill to be ah up there with those guys.
00:13:32
Speaker
And um I know you've known them for a while, but it was, am I correct that the only time you've quote unquote toured with them was that year and then also in 2024 or did you in other years as well? No, I never did. and and um I would always say to Dave, why can't I go out on tour where go?
00:13:49
Speaker
ye Because I've known him a long while, but it just for one reason it it didn't happen. And then um I did open for them in America on about, i think, like seven or eight gigs on on the eat on the East Coast here in the summer. And they were they were that was wonderful to do that. And then um I got a call...
00:14:08
Speaker
You know, don't know, sometime, guess it would have been like in July or something. Dave said, look, would you like to open for us in Europe? And of course, you know, i was like, oh, my God, it'd be such an honour. And it was brilliant. And it was definitely the trip of a lifetime. ah i would I've never done anything like that in my life, you know, in all the years of playing. I've played some fairly big gigs, but not...
00:14:32
Speaker
consistently like that and so to to be on a tour with with the counting crows throughout Europe it was and to play with Dave all the time was just it was just the greatest thing that's ever happened to me it really did really thrill it was amazing so um I guess that takes you where and I read a little bit about this in one of your interviews recently but for the listeners of our podcast how did Jimmy and Emmy start and when did you meet him etc So I used to play Rockwood Music Hall in in New York all the time. And Dave was playing with a a few people that I kind of half knew. And he would come down and play at Rockwood. And um I'd go and watch them play. And there's Dave Immiglott. I didn't know who he was. And um he came to see me one night there.
00:15:18
Speaker
And ah ah think he'd come up to me and said, hey, you know, I'd love to play with you. and If you want if you want we can do some gigs and I didn't really know much about him or what the You know, i wasn't really paying attention at all to to the to him at all and I said well, okay, man,
00:15:36
Speaker
um And then i can't remember what happened then. we we Obviously, I did a gig and he sat in and and then I didn't know he even played the mandolin. And then he started playing the mandolin with me. And then i assume we played more and more. And I soon realized that he was a tremendous musician. And then so once that kind of was established, OK,
00:16:00
Speaker
we We got this little duo thing together and he's it's more fun playing with somebody than on your own. And then we started to go to Italy a lot together. I have a connection in Italy. So he and I would go to Italy for for two or three weeks and tour around Italy. And that consolidated our little duo.
00:16:18
Speaker
And we'd just been friends and playing together. mean, it might be like 15 years. It's quite a long time since since what once this all happened. But that's we began. Where in Italy would you play? I'm sorry?
00:16:31
Speaker
where in Where in Italy would you play? I'm met ah Italian by background. i've spent a bunch of time there, so I'm curious. We would play mainly in the middle and the north. You know, but we would play, i mean, know we I've been to Italy so many times, but we we play in these funny little towns that that that I can't even remember their names. You know, they're not big places. Like, we would rarely play the major, you know, I don't think we ever played, like,
00:17:00
Speaker
maybe once we played in Rome, but we would never play the big cities. We were always in these smaller little towns and ah we got to see, and i go i go every year to italy Italy pretty much and play all around these little Italian towns, in that mainly in the north and in the middle. We did go to the south last time and we go there too, but there no but there are no places that you would ever know. you wouldn't know the names of them. Yeah, it might do, but, you know, they're small little towns and you get to see the real Italy, you know, you really get to see the real Italy. And I really consider it one of the great privileges in my life to be able to have played all around Italy and got lots of Italian friends and fans. and It's a massive, I love Italy so much. and I love the people there. And they've been so good to me over the years. And yeah, know we play all over. it like It's really a dream come true, yeah.
Love for Italy and Cultural Richness
00:17:57
Speaker
I'll do it. Small Italian towns are amazing. Oh, yeah, please. They're just all, they're they're they're fantastic. and that's, I think, you know by nature as an American as an Italian American but an American you know the first couple times you go there you go okay well I guess I got to go to Rome and I got to see the Colosseum and whatever and that's super cool and that's great and I everyone should do that but yeah you like you get to like a smaller Italian town and you really kind of get the vibe of it and it's such as ah a beautiful and wonderful place and I i miss it all the time there's not it's unbelievable there's nowhere like it on the planet it's really a special country and You know, if ever anybody gets the chance to go, go. You know, you go to Orietta, I think was the name of a little town I went to. and it was not As you're driving through the motorway, there it is on the hill. you know It's this kind of an an ancient medieval walled city. And then you go up there and you go, the roads are real, real tiny, like a Fiat advert on the television. And then there's ah there's a central square, a piazza, and there would be a stage and there would be seats.
00:18:59
Speaker
And we would play and it would be a PA and it would be like, what it's like cinema paradiso. don't know if you're hip to the movie cinema paradiso. Every day was like a theme from cinema paradiso.
00:19:13
Speaker
So it's mind blowing. And then obviously there's the food. And there's the ice cream and the weather and there's the ancient history of Rome and Italy.
Mandolin's Role in Music
00:19:26
Speaker
And maybe if you're young, you'll have the girl that makes you want makes you want to move from the US to Italy, right? Instead of vice versa. So... um But will I will also say that super appreciate, like a couple of times I was there, one time I was in Milan and I realized that Hollis Brown, new York band, was playing. And we're like, oh, I guess we should go see a band tonight. And i have never seen a line for merch that long at the end of the show. And like just people just coming out and they're like, oh, of course I'll buy your records. I don't know. i Anyway. Wonderful. So I'll do a quick plug now for for James. We'll do it at the end too, but his website, JamesMatic, one word, M-A-D-D-O-C-K, so JamesMatic.net. And when you're talking about Jimmy and Emmy, correct me if I'm wrong, you released two um live albums with as Jimmy and ip Emmy. One of them is still, um you can buy, or you can listen, you can stream on the website, but also buy on Amazon and Apple if you would like to support James. haven't watched
00:20:25
Speaker
And at my store, which is jamesmaddock.net. There's a store there. We have all the big things there. Yeah, I see that. It looks like the other one is currently out of print, the live in Italian. I actually have – we've reissued that. so Okay. That is in print now. So they're all they're both in print, I think.
00:20:43
Speaker
Oh, great. So, yeah, for those that want to actually listen to it, there is a Jimmy Emmy CD, two of them. It's not just you have to be in Spain and see them randomly. There's one live in Italy, I believe, as well. Yeah, that's that second one.
00:20:57
Speaker
um And also, the the one – I think you promote this on the website too, but the one really nice – Because I think it was about 35, 40 minutes. i don't I don't know how many songs, maybe six or so or seven. But there's a it's called we'll link it to the on the bottom here. One on one Jimmy and Emmy ah from January 2014, New York City. I don't know where that was. if That was that rock. That will be on YouTube. Yeah. was it was it Where was that filmed? Was that... Do you know Erhud?
00:21:28
Speaker
Erhud. Oh, yeah. yeah okay So Erhud obviously is like the the official photographer for the Crows and he videographer, he does so much for those guys. And ah he ran a series underneath the City Winery well in New York. And he... God, he filmed so many people. So there's so many of those one-on-one films I mean, anybody who played the City Winery, you would get them up and do a little video downstairs.
00:21:56
Speaker
So, you know, I think it was just part of that series. So, yeah, that's from the downstairs at the Old City Winery. I miss the Old City Winery. That was a beautiful venue. Yeah, it was. And it's so much easier to park. You know, when it's the worst getting of all time, that gig. You can't park anywhere near it. a pain in the ass, but...
00:22:15
Speaker
Yeah, we we've we've we've indirectly talked about him before as the official videographer, photographer, etc. And then we're going to try to get him on the podcast. Oh, hes yeah, he's what he's really something. He's wonderful. He does so much. He's a machine. So, yeah, he's definitely, and he's a great guy. So I'm sure he'll be happy to be on.
00:22:35
Speaker
So when you play as Jimmy and Emmy, does Emmy play mandolin 100% of the time, basically? Okay. Okay. I wouldn't never allow that. Okay. So what what else does he what else does he play? plays acoustic u guitar.
00:22:50
Speaker
Okay. Okay. And is that primarily what he said on... you so we've played We played the other night at the... We do an 11th Street Bar gig every so often, every month at the 11th Street Bar with Sean Pelton, the the famous drummer from New York, from Saturday Night Live and million other bands. And he and I do a little duo. And if he's in town, he will obviously play with us. So we do a Jimmy, Jimmy and Sean thing at the 11th Street Bar. And Dave plays mandolin and acoustic guitar.
00:23:20
Speaker
Okay. yeah And you you know this already, but one, we have a couple of long running jokes on the podcast, but one of them is that when we've had other musicians on the that are related to the Crows, in quotes, it's always, oh, who do you know the most? Or who do you play with the most? or who It's always Emmy. So how can Emmy be connected? to the it's like It's so funny how even your story that he still found time, obviously his passion, he just loves doing it. We interviewed Kobe Brown on the podcast.
00:23:48
Speaker
which he plays with when he's in LA, just like he plays with you when he's in New York. You know, he's in so many little bands, isn't he? He like plays with the Cracker. Yeah. He's got that Third Eye thing.
00:24:02
Speaker
And then he's got the Crows. He's got the Monks of Doom. and then there i have... there's a camper van Beethoven. he yeah I mean, he's the thing about Davis is very, he's good at a lot of things. You know, he's great in the studio with a guitar, electric guitar, slide guitar, the lap steel, the mandolin, um, the pedal steel,
00:24:25
Speaker
He brings a lot.
New York City's Music Scene and Changes
00:24:26
Speaker
He's very, very good. so people And and he's obviously he's a great dude. so People just want him around. you know Why not? he He's fantastic. he's well he gets He gets invited to every party. He's the personality. Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but it's funny because what I was thinking, and maybe I have a different perspective, but you know and i from me not being in the band officially in the beginning,
00:24:48
Speaker
maybe the first time I think of Emmy is him playing mandolin in Omaha, right? as in the studio yeah And then for, and he does play mandolin in a couple of Crow songs, but then to see him with James Maddock as Jimmy and Emmy playing mandolin throughout a number of songs, I really liked it. It kind of brought me back to, um yeah. so he He played with John Hyatt a lot and I think he played with man quite a lot of mandolin with John. So he's very good at that mandolin pop rock thing. So it's a beautiful color and it,
00:25:18
Speaker
you know, it's just another thing he's really, really good at. The back. what What also interesting, I take back because, again, I would never say that mandolin and ukulele are the same, right? But they are similar-ish instruments. So going all the way back kind of to the beginning of your story there. It brings that color that, you know, sort informed it, you know?
00:25:37
Speaker
yeah the um Yeah, I always liked the mandolin since the... I mean, I'm a child, you know, i grew up in 70s. I'm a child of when Bruce Hornsby had the mandolin rain song. Oh, yeah. I thought that was so cool in a pop song, and I was only, like, you know, nine years old or something when it came out. And I'm like, this amazing. Well, don't forget, actually, don't forget you've got, you know, you've got the... ah In pop music, you've got a... but Rob used the the mandolin to great effects in pop music, and I'm sure there's other instances of it as well.
00:26:10
Speaker
So that's when I first thought about the mandolin. But it's such a great instrument because it brings that that lovely high-end... john mo ah job ah Richard Thompson used it on that song...
00:26:23
Speaker
that some am Well, I'm going away to leave you. I'm going leave you in this place. Over the hill. You know that song? Yeah. yeah So it's just a great compliment to the acoustic guitar, whether it's Irish music or you know Celtic music or something. It's a natural companion to the guitar.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah. It's funny you mentioned Maggie Mae because actually we were talking about a Crows album on our our last episodes and we were listening. There's like a mandolin intro to to come around. And I was like, i kind of think it's pretty similar to Maggie Mae a little bit. it's It's got certainly you can hear the sort of the influence of it, which is probably may maybe the most famous mandolin intro of anything. Oh, right. You're saying this Crows song, Come Around, has that mandolin. Right, right, right. Yeah, it goes towards that, you know, which is a beautiful. I mean, yeah Maggie Mae is an incredible song. Yeah.
00:27:13
Speaker
you Can I ask, I'm curious, you know i i went to a lot of ah i went to a lot of shows at Rockwood Music Hall in my life, and it's it's gone now. Any sort of like, you know a big memory, other than just playing there a lot, but just sort of memories of that place, which was yeah you know such an important venue in New York that and unfortunately we've lost to the last, sort of to COVID, but really just, I think, to the last, the change in the industry over the last five years. Well, yeah, that's right. It was very pivotal, to certainly to my New York existence and to my New York experience.
00:27:44
Speaker
career musically um um and there was a great community of people that were that that allowed to happen and Ken Rockwood deserves all the credit in the world for putting that together and it really became a home for so many of us New York at musicians.
00:28:02
Speaker
it But stand out a lot of it was one of the great nights I had in there. ah I particularly remember Teddy Cumpel, who was a New York guitar player, absolute genius guitarist. And he used to do a midnight one a Monday midnight, and he would have it every night, every week, it would be a different rhythm section, different bass and drums. And the best players in New York would would would play with Teddy um and everybody.
00:28:29
Speaker
He was, he's well, he still is a genius on the guitar, and I'm such a fan. He's no is my favourite guitar player in New York City. a Teddy Cumpull, his name is, and he's brilliant. So i' really, really had great memories of watching him and the the band play. And it might be Aaron, and commerce it might be Teddy, ah it might be... um Tony Mason or it might be Sean on the drums on Pelton or any number of super heavyweights would come in and play bass and play drums with Teddy and they'd do these long kind of jams and had these great songs and Teddy would do incredible guitar playing with effects and everything and it was mind-blowing. it's That's when you, i ri that's you know, that kind of education of New York, Musicians was was really big for me. and then And I would go to the 55 Bar, just a slightly detailed, and go and see yeah Brian Mitchell and Clark Gaten and those guys play down at the 55 Bar.
Connection with Counting Crows
00:29:26
Speaker
And that was another... That place has gone as well. And that was another...
00:29:30
Speaker
Absolutely. You just couldn't beat that place. You know, those guys playing in that room was some of the greatest music I've ever heard in my life. So those two places have kind of gone now. And New York being what it is, you know, you can't afford to live there anymore. yeah It's just not possible to be um a musician there. It's very difficult to be a musician. I mean, if you're if you're rich, it's easy, obviously. But if you're like a regular guy like me, you can't afford it Unless you want to live in a room about half the size of my kitchen for four grand a month.
00:30:01
Speaker
yeah i I thought about that even when Emmy and Adam are sometimes interviewed about when they first lived together and they were struggling musicians. Like, um i want to know what neighborhood that is now in in in the Bay Area and how much that would cost them if they did not have a quote unquote real job at the time. So it's very difficult, man. Very difficult.
00:30:21
Speaker
I guess as being a Crows podcast, I have to ask you, because if doing the math that um if you met Emmy, let's just say around 2010 or so, how much did you know about the Cannon Crows at all before meeting him? And did you listen to them more after meeting him? Because maybe he would talk about his music or something like that. No, not really.
00:30:43
Speaker
I knew them because I knew their hits. you know and They were massive on MTV and all that, right? So all of those songs that everybody else knew, I knew. And I thought they were great. you know I really thought they were a great band. And I loved those songs.
00:30:57
Speaker
They've got just some fantastic songs. So I only knew them like that. And when a and then when I go and see them, Dave and I sometimes put me on the guest list. If they played New York, I'd go and see them. And you know I soon realized what a terrific band they are. They really are a great band. And they sound fantastic. yeah they all They all know They've all got their lane.
00:31:16
Speaker
They all play together beautifully. They've obviously been playing together for a long time. and They make a trip fantastic sound. Adams and ah c incredible singer, front man.
00:31:27
Speaker
And, you know, I thought, you know, I didn't but i didn't really know a lot about them, but I grew up listening to them. I think like they were just part of the furniture, really, in a lot of ways. Yeah. my courses They were just on the radio and, you know, they had these great songs and they were the Counting Crows, massive.
00:31:44
Speaker
And then obviously when you tour with them, you get to hear, like, they were playing basically all their five new songs or four, right, five new songs. So you have to hear all those most nights. yeah Anything in touring with them that that, you know, in terms like the songs, you're like, oh man, I'm really excited they're playing this tonight. Like, i'm just kind of curious because you got me see them obviously a whole bunch. you know I love the Omaha song. thought that was beautiful. I thought that I love that. ah Is it called Holiday in Spain? Yeah.
00:32:09
Speaker
Yeah. And those kinds of things. And then there was... ah um the The kind ones I recognised, I loved. um So yeah, I thought they were beautiful, beautiful songs. That holiday in Spain would get me every time. a little tear up when I'd hear that.
00:32:27
Speaker
It's beautiful. I read also in the um in an interview you did last year, and it was something I was going to ask you about anyway, ah but it said, hey, did you ever go on stage with them once? And you kind of laughed and said, oh, Emmy asked me a couple of times, but I said, no, thank you or something. I think it would fun to go out with them one time or at a you know in the encore or something. i I guess. I mean, there was a moment when it was kind of suggested that I could join them on the last song a little bit, but it's not really – it wasn't that I was – I just felt that was like a bit intrusive. You know, I didn't, I'm not starting myself to push myself forward. Had they asked, you know, a bit more vociferously and said, Oh, come on, man, I would have done it. But that wasn't forthcoming. And I was not the kind of person to say, Hey, get me on at the end. or that my feet you you know You need a fourth guitar for that. I know you do. You know, it was mentioned, but I just didn't really push the, I didn't push the, um,
00:33:25
Speaker
I didn't push it, so it didn't happen. I had two things I just wanted to cover at some point. and i don't have a lot of other set questions. I just thought it was kind of interesting when I was reading about your career, and I really didn't know that your first, I guess, quote-unquote hit in the U.S. was as that band Wood and a song, what was it, on Dawson's Creek or something? or was on but i And then I listened to that and go, don't.
00:33:50
Speaker
do kind of recognize this song. I forget where, if I heard this out, you know, back then I used to listen to so much music and maybe even college radio or something, but how, how was that being on? I'm sure I know people recognize it to this
Impact of Dawson's Creek Feature
00:34:02
Speaker
day. And those are, especially cause that TV show, it was, a that was a little, maybe the generation behind me, but I know that was a big, come that might be your, more your generation. It's my generation, Eric. It's how I talk to girls. You watch some Dawson's Creek and you learn about what they're interested in and try to engage in some conversation. Yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
Do you want to talk about that a bit? And for those who don't know, what's the name of the song again? it's called Stay You. Stay You, yeah. So I wrote this, I had this band, you know, it was kind of a regret of mine that I called the band Wood. I should have really called it my name because it was it was all me.
00:34:37
Speaker
You know, it was my songs. It was all me. And the amount of name recognition I would have got from calling the band, you know, my name as opposed to the band name would have would have, I think would have really helped me in later life but that was a bit of a mistake but i had a band called wood and um we put out an album called songs from stanford hill which came out on columbia records it's a really ah really very very proud of the record it's it's a really fantastic album it's but you'll find you won't find it on my spotify page but if you look for wood ww w o d their songs from stanford hill it will come up and i'll
00:35:14
Speaker
I'm really, really, really, really proud of that record. um that you know That's what got me the record deal, the song Stay You. And then it did appear on the Dawson's Creek soundtrack album.
00:35:26
Speaker
which sold a lot lot of copies. And it was also a kind of almost a fit hit. I think he got it got on the AAA stations, it got to like number six or something like that in the chart. I think so so. It got quite high, and but it didn't translate. it didn't We didn't have a hit with it. And so if you're on Columbia Records, all they're really interested in is having a hit. right And you don't really get much of it.
00:35:50
Speaker
which of a shot, if you don't have a hit, you're kind of gone. And I didn't have a hit, and subsequently, I didn't really last very long there. But that kind of precipitated my journey to America. And yeah, the song's called Stay You, and it's a pop song, and it's it's pretty good.
00:36:09
Speaker
Yeah, oh absolutely. As I said, definitely there's something in my subconscious. I was like, I definitely know this song. It's been you know a couple decades or whatever, but I've heard this before. That's great. a By the way, and this wouldn't have been on there, the Wood song, but do I like to sometimes ask our guests, ah do you know what your two most popular YouTube videos are?
00:36:29
Speaker
Any idea? I mean, I'm wondering, it probably My Old Neighborhood. Yep, that's one, yep. um Another Life. Yep, that's it. So I definitely, good job. I definitely advise our listeners to check out both on James Maddox's YouTube channel. So, ah Chris, did you have any more? if anyone wants to watch Dawson's Creek and let me know if that holds up, because I have not watched it in 25 years. i I couldn't get with that show because it just felt like the way the kids talk to each other, are You know, they were supposed be 18 and 19, but they talked to each other like they were like 45, 48-year-old people that had gone through 30 years of mental therapy.
00:37:10
Speaker
I just couldn't get it from the dialogue. it I feel like it was an aspirational show for like people who were two years... like Because I was probably like a year or two younger than whatever they were supposed to be. was like, yeah, that can be me. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think... I don't know as a 40 something year old, how, ah how much I would enjoy rewatching that show. I feel like I i couldn't i would just cringe at like the image of myself at the time, you know, and the one thing that was really annoying about that show from, from my perspective, I had three songs in that show oh in the actual song, you know, it was a big, big show. And if you had a song it in the episodes, I had three songs in one episode and
00:37:50
Speaker
At the end, the credits would roll, but they never mentioned the bands in the credits, which was a huge... missed opportunity, you know, because people would have recognized if they liked the songs, they could have saw who who was, you know, recording the songs and, you know, hopefully maybe buy your record. But they never credited the, the ah this and not just me, but nobody got a credit on ah on the outros. And that was a bit of I wish they'd done that, would have been great.
00:38:22
Speaker
but Yeah, that's you're right. That's one advantage new or are nowadays they have right on the smart TV. Sometimes you can press the button and it tells you or you just put Google out and say, what song is this? And it'll tell you and you look it up. Exactly. That was the thing back then. You know you would never know who the songs were in the show. There's no way to know.
00:38:41
Speaker
Yeah, because that was little before because there was that that not that many years later, right? Things like Grey's Anatomy like made kind of a bigger deal of the songs they place and they just it's just right before I think that sort of all took off and became part of the industry. I guess it was just, oh, well, the songs on the show. But yeah, it was a real missed opportunity for everybody. You know, I don't know why didn they just couldn't be bothered to do it. amazing.
00:39:08
Speaker
i mean I do have one little story about Dawson's Creek. Please, yeah. Quite funny. I was asked to do... They had this big event where they invited... They did a competition for, I think, like 1,000 people to come to a gig in North Carolina, wherever the wherever the show was filmed.
00:39:31
Speaker
And if if you wrote in... and you won a prize, that would be the the flight in the hotel to come to a gig in their North Carolina. And on the bill was a bunch of people, including me and my friend Bill, who played mandolin with me.
00:39:47
Speaker
And um so we get to the gig, and we this it's a theatre, and it and the the stars of the show are there. i actually went out with the main lead dude, for a drinking spree after the after the ah after the gig we had a really amazing night and they anyway so we're about to go on stage me and Bill and i said to the agent at the Columbia guy how much just how much do we get in For the gig, you know, because this is a big event. Everybody's everybody's here.
00:40:18
Speaker
And he e said, don't know, I'll make a phone call. And he makes a phone call and ah he says, you're getting $25,000.
00:40:29
Speaker
Well, I mean, that's like a massive amount of money for me, Bill. I said to Bill, we'll split it, dude. We'll split the money. 12 grand each.
00:40:42
Speaker
So I walk on stage and all I can think of is 12 and a half thousand dollars. That's a life changing amount of money for me. I'm playing like three or four songs. I can't believe I'm so happy. Come off the stage and we're like, fuck yeah, fuck it, we're going to be rich. And then the guy says, oh, listen, I've got some bad news. You're not getting any of that money.
00:41:03
Speaker
It's all going to Columbia Records. Oh no. oh we We had a, you know, it was like, oh boy, we nearly made some money. Because because that that would have been double the amount now, right You know, $25,000 back then like $50,000 now. was fortune.
00:41:18
Speaker
was a
Current Performances and Future Plans
00:41:19
Speaker
fortune for us. You know, we were broke. Even though we were on Columbia, we had no money. So, yeah, we but we never got the money. does that when you said ah Just to go back to one thing that you reminded me of, when you said that you sometimes play still um with Emmy, what is it called? The 11th Street Bar? 11th Street Bar. So yeah, have a keep on the lookout for... Yeah, I was just going to say keep the lookout for that. And... um Or just go to 11th Street Bar. It's a pretty cool bar to hang out at. Yes, absolutely. It's a great New Year bar. It depends on the days in town. I've got a feeling the next time we play, which is the 28th, he is going to, I think they're flying to Brazil that day or something like that. Or Australia or wherever they're going. Australia. They're going to Australia. Yeah.
00:42:02
Speaker
So I don't know whether he'll be there that day, but I'll definitely be there with Sean. Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah. So keep a lookout for that. So for, you know, you can see Jimmy and Emmy at the 11th Street Bar, or if just Jimmy and, did you say Sean? Jimmy and Sean? Yeah. And sometimes? um There's two live albums you can buy. you can see them, you know, on other tours. You can watch their YouTube videos. And, yeah, all sorts of for Crows fans. And then that's how you can sneak into, right? So you you get the Crows fans into the Jimmy and Emmy, and then hopefully they move over to the James Maddox solo work. That's that's the idea here. Hell yeah! Come
00:42:36
Speaker
So, well, thank you. Chris, do you have any, I kind of got all the questions I wanted to ask. Kind of, I think we kind of covered it. the ah The history and also the sad laments of New York City venues that are are gone.
00:42:49
Speaker
Unless we want to we also lament Bowery Electric, which is apparently also closing. um is it They're turning it into a theater, apparently. Oh, yeah, because Jesse's doing his thing there. Is that right? Yeah. He's doing the whole thing.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know what they're going to do after that run is over. if that I don't know how long that's going to be. But, yeah, just it's I feel like we're losing all of our good small venues. The Old City Winery and Rockwood.
00:43:13
Speaker
Nothing lasts forever. And, you know, New York, there's no exception. You know, the places come and go. It's at least the bitter end's still there. where I play there with my band every few weeks, three months. So that's still there.
00:43:26
Speaker
well so Well, thank you. It's so fun hearing about your um your journey. I don't know. i I think it's interesting hearing about from from... Of course, if you interviewed somebody who's just starting their career, you'd get this kind of optimism and goals, and that's kind of interesting. But I also like hearing people that have been doing it for a bit and and how the music industry has changed and their stories and experiences. I think it's also a lot of fun, especially since you're still doing it. Oh, and check out your tour, right? yeah James is still on tour. I know you're, in some of the cases... you're playing with um are you playing with always the same in this particular tour with the same person or changes up well i am you know i'm always changing it up sometimes it's the band sometimes it's me on solo sometimes it's a duo whether it's a duo with a with brian mitchell on the piano or imi or sean or you know depends on the gig obviously i've got to try to make a living and if i use the band that's ah a big expense right but So it kind of depends on the gig, but I'm always working around the New York area. So just and my website, JamesMannock.net has my gigs. Facebook, James Mannock Music, I think it is, James Mannock Music forward slash Facebook is my main Facebook page, Instagram as well. well
00:44:39
Speaker
So I'm easy to find. So, you know, just check in with me there. all right. Thank you. And I'm so glad I got a chance to finally see Jimmy and Emmy live and talk to you at the merch booth. So I appreciate So thanks everyone for listening us on Sullivan street and we'll see you next time. Thank you so much.