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E45: Not an Enemy (Academic Analysis with Dr. Adam)
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Dr. Adam (from the Sister Wives Professor Podcast) joins us. He's a professor of interpersonal and family communication, and a huge fan of Counting Crows.
On this episode, Dr. Adam discusses (1) the pathos and identity concepts in Adam's songwriting, (2) CC fandom as "ingroup vs outgroup", and (3) the concept of sincerity as a songwriter and as fans.
His very popular Sister Wives podcast can be found here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sister-wives-professor/id1719547118
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Transcript
Introduction of Dr. Adam, pop culture podcast host
00:00:15
Speaker
Here we go, back on Sullivan Street. Chris, how are you doing today? Welcome. um It's good to be back. It's good to be... ah It's always good to be chatting with you, Eric. I love talking about this. and just so Love talking about the Crows. Forces us to do it, having a somewhat regular schedule. And today is the, I don't know, the academic, ah the analytic ah ah episode, the communications episode, and we have ah a special guest Welcome to
Dr. Adam's journey as a Counting Crows fan
00:00:42
Speaker
the podcast, Dr. Adam from the... Hi, and so Dr. Adam, for those that don't know, is ah the host in the pop culture. He's famous as the host of the sister or one of the sister wives podcast, which the name of it is, ah tell me, is it is it sister with professor or so what is it? Sorry.
00:01:01
Speaker
The Sister Wives Professor. Sister Wives sister wise professor um Because he's not only an expert and the doctor on the Sister Wives, but is a communications scholar and a huge Cannon Crows fan.
00:01:15
Speaker
Absolutely. So he will ah we will we will look a little in depth, I guess, from an academic, philosophic standpoint about some of the... what What I like about this episode is we're going to talk about and enunciate and and and and outline some of the of the things that are special about the Crows, but maybe ah you ah fans of our podcast kind of know vaguely or internally, and we're going to say
Emotional connection with Counting Crows' music
00:01:42
Speaker
it right? we're goingnna We're going to put it clear. What makes this band so special?
00:01:47
Speaker
But we're going to say the quiet parts out loud. Yes. And the unknown parts out loud. ah So but first, Dr. Adam, congratulations on your success on ah your pop culture podcast. And um but but tell us a little bit first about your experience as a Crows fan. How did you first ah you know, I guess what was your first experience with the band? And then when would you have called yourself a super fan?
00:02:13
Speaker
Oh, sure. So, well, it's kind of funny because I can I can tell you where I was. i can tell you like what time of day, everything I was watching MTV, is that which is a thing we used to do.
00:02:25
Speaker
ah That was what we did as kids and as young people. And I was watching the buzz bin. And if you all don't know what the buzz, you all listening, don't know what the buzz bin is. This is was a program where we would have videos that were kind of bubbling up. They were starting to get attention.
00:02:38
Speaker
and so videos or music videos in which fans performed songs but with ah with ah pictures it was and I don't know what I was watching I was watching whatever music video and and like I was a music fan I had bought a couple cds but it was mostly
Adam Duritz's songwriting themes
00:02:52
Speaker
you know like when you're a kid and you're getting into like soundtracks and you're kind of figuring out because i had an older brother i was trying to figure out what do I like beyond what what my brother or my dad listens to and There's this video comes on and this guitar feedback and it launches into this riff from Angels of the Silences. And it was like I'd been struck by lightning. Like I have never since had a feeling hearing a song for the first time like I did that song. And I remember thinking, i don't know what this is, but this is for me.
00:03:24
Speaker
All these songs I hear all the time are for somebody, but this, this is for me. And that's the best way I can put it. And so I went out that month. It was probably November or so.
00:03:36
Speaker
And I bought Recovering the Satellites. I knew Mr. Jones, but I didn't know was the same band yet. And so, of course, I bought August and everything after like a month later, once I got some more money and like that was it. Like there was no going back.
00:03:48
Speaker
I was day one. I remember putting recovering the satellites in my my big tape deck boombox thing on the the CD player. And those opening notes of catapult, you know, the the whistling sounds. And I was like, all right, this is it for me.
00:04:03
Speaker
And that was it. I've never. never wavered. You know, I've, I've listened to every record on day one. I love them all. I don't love them all equally, but there's, there's not a bad record in the bunch for me. you know, we could talk about that, but you know, it's just been my thing. And i think as you guys and people listening to this can attest, like when this is for you and the counting crows are for you, like they're really for you, like really for you. And so that's me. Right. And that's part. Yeah. Thank you. And that's part of what I guess you're going to get at. um And so near the end, we'll we'll maybe talk about a little bit of
Imagery in songwriting and its impact
00:04:36
Speaker
some of some of your favorite songs and why they and why they hit with you. But you're as you showed us when you were in the green room or the pre-recording, you're one of the ah um you're not the only, but a few we've had now of ah um guests and Counting Crows fans that have tattoos to show their ah ah love tribute to the band.
00:04:56
Speaker
and It's Something I did flirt with at one point, but never actually crossed the line. So ah not that that's any kind of litmus test or anything. I don't want people to have to prove themselves that way. it's But yeah, so I guess what I'm saying is that, right, there's always people that contact us. Oh, yeah, we're fans of the band. But some people you could tell, yes, very much big fans. so um So let's, you know, I guess...
00:05:21
Speaker
I was looking at a couple of the topics we're going to cover. One of it, yeah one of his, maybe yeah the last one, maybe overall concept to maybe something about fandom. Let's focus on, well, even though it's the guitar that got you and I love, by the way, you're the first person I met who got hooked on angels. And I love that song also. And I, what, what, one thing that we've had fun with in this show, Chris, and even Chris and I, cause we're different generations is, um, what was the first song you heard? And I don't think we've had anybody, Chris, that kind of said recovering was their first exposure. So that's great. We've had other people even with somewhere and they love recovering the best, but um yeah, so I, I love that because I always thought it was one of their unappreciated videos. Also. I loved it. oh Yeah. Um,
00:06:09
Speaker
But part of what makes Adam, of course, so unique is his songwriting, singing songwriting. So um what one idea you had was to talk about the identity concepts.
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, this sounds a little. So please explain what you meant by that and then we'll go into it. Yeah, sure. So at my day job, I study communication, particularly I study identity and the way that we communicate
Live performances and fan connection
00:06:31
Speaker
and the way we are communicated with and how that defines us, because we can control to some degree how we're seen, but also we are sort of at the whims of what society puts parameters on, of what's attractive, what's intelligent, what's good, what's bad, socially, culturally, et cetera. And we'll get into that with with the fandom. But one of the things that I think sets Adam apart in terms of songwriting is he's got this sort of fearlessness in his approach to emotion.
00:06:58
Speaker
And you look at certain records in particular, like the early parts of like Saturday nights and Sunday mornings where he's, he's digging into some really darker stuff and presenting it really unapologetically.
00:07:09
Speaker
And I think that there's a lot of that and recovering as well that I, as a teenager, really connected with, not because I'd had those experiences, but I understood ugliness and I understood or the feeling of ugliness and the feeling of frustration. And you talk about to your point, the fact that angels was my connection. i mean, that is such a primal scream of like, how dare of I i am wrecked.
00:07:34
Speaker
And I will allow you to continue wrecking me. Like what teenage boy doesn't feel that like to their bones, you know, even though I hadn't been in a relationship, I had never had like any attention from a girl. I've knew that angst and that feeling of like, I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting for something to happen and I'm going to keep doing it even at my own expense.
00:07:56
Speaker
And there is Two, and we talked off mic about the documentary
Optimism and pessimism in Counting Crows songs
00:08:01
Speaker
and whatnot. And the documentary, of course, I think really touches well upon. You can take two paths with Adam's honesty as a songwriter. Like you either find it really.
00:08:13
Speaker
and I'm skipping ahead, but you find it really appropriate and you appreciate it or it's almost off putting of it's too much. Like you're being too honest. And I've never had that problem. I've never had that reaction. But that pathos, that emotion.
00:08:25
Speaker
And as you mentioned, too, It's the specifics, the specificity. And as a songwriter, I feel like it's almost counterintuitive where so many songwriters want to be kind of as vague as possible so you can project things onto them.
00:08:37
Speaker
Right. I feel like Adam does the opposite of it. I'm going to give you a name. I'm going to give you a date. I'm going to give you a place. And you don't know any of them. And yet still somehow they mean more because of it. you know, most famously Maria. we've seen yeah people yeah Exactly. And people feel that, oh yes, he gets the specifics for me, even though you didn't share those specifics. I don't know how he gets away with that.
00:09:03
Speaker
I was just thinking about Virginia through the rain. I was just listening to it a little bit before the show. And i've spent time in Virginia. I have siblings in Virginia. and But I was thinking, yeah, even if you've never been, you could feel that you have been there and that you still relate to the rain and and everything. So, yeah, I think you're spot your spot on there.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah. so There's an interesting thing though, I think where there's, there's an interesting thing in songwriting where there's a lot of specifics, but there's also a an openness and a sort of imagery that to your point about like, what does that mean? What is that? There's a lot of like my favorite song, maybe in,
00:09:46
Speaker
not just of the County Crows, but maybe ever, is ranking. um And at the same time, while there's a lot of visual, very specific images in that song, there's also an aspect where it's both very obvious what that song is about and not clear at all.
00:10:03
Speaker
Right. Like you could not, like, I couldn't really write you the story of rain King exactly other than in a very, but that tactile feeling of like feeling at a certain level of disconnection and sort of trying to connect with people, but sort of not being able to get there. That's a very relatable feeling. I think a lot of people,
00:10:25
Speaker
I don't think I'm alone in sort of connecting to that song and on that level. um You know, but it's an, in there's an a line that gets walked, I think, particularly in Adam's writing that is very interesting in that regard because he's both, he's famously specific, right? Some of these things are are famously specific,
Cultural perception of 'Mr. Jones'
00:10:41
Speaker
but also at the same time, open enough that people are able to sort of drop themselves into it and sort of relate to the energy, even if they can't, you know, again, to to use like Mr. Jones, even if you've never, know, watched a flamenco dancer from the corner of a bar, like you get the feeling and it's not... you know No, absolutely.
00:11:04
Speaker
ahead. No, please, Dr. Adam. Well, it's you know it's not that different from Springsteen or David Bowie or these other songwriters that I think, frankly, get a lot more credit than Adam does in in that they're taking you...
00:11:17
Speaker
They're telling you a story. Now, for most of Adam's career, the stories have been about him or people he knows. And then, you know, there's that pivot kind of a somewhere under Wonderland where he really kind of opens up. And and one of my favorite songs they've ever done, Palisades Park, where it's this whole complete story with a beginning, middle and an end. Right. And it's, I think, one of his finest works ever.
00:11:38
Speaker
But. Yeah. To your point, it's kind of, it's kind of funny, Chris, and that you don't ever hear an author get criticized of, well, why are you writing this story about these people? I don't know, you know, because, well, because I'm, I'm going along for the ride and I can, I can understand what you're trying to say and I can put myself into the, it's because yeah, I don't need to see a flamenco dancer to understand hanging out with my buddy, wishing girls liked us, you know, or seeing something out of reach. Cause that's what that represents, right? Is the beauty you can see, but you cannot access it.
00:12:08
Speaker
That's the whole point. And that's the that's the dance that he does as a songwriter. And I can get behind that. i don't like i i like I love the band Block Party. I love that band.
00:12:20
Speaker
But if I listen to Positive Tension, i don't know what the man is talking about. I still enjoy the song, but I don't have like the connection I get when I go like, you know, St. Robinson, right? Where I'm like, yeah, I understand what you're kind of evoking. You know, there's a girl who's finally feeling accepted by this group of people. Are they good for her or not? We don't know, but she's coming out of her show.
00:12:42
Speaker
Makes sense to me, you know? And that to me is the bravery to not hide behind abstraction, I think is his greatest. Well, one of his greatest strengths as a songwriter. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think it's also, you talk about like the pathos of it. like there's a ah There's a pathos mixed with optimism that I think runs through all of the records where
Adam Duritz's public image and fan perspective
00:13:01
Speaker
it's the sense of, um I am not connected. I'm looking, I'm yearning for this thing, but I also, I'm yearning for it in a way that suggests that I i could achieve it. It's not impossible for me to achieve it. In fact, I believe that it it may happen.
00:13:15
Speaker
um And that's why this, and maybe in some ways, this yearning feels... um sort of tangible is because no, no, i I really believe we can get there. I just have to be better. I have to figure it out or i have to figure out how to say it. um It's not that like, oh, we're all doomed and, you know, it's it's not music to sort of like get depressed to in that regard.
00:13:37
Speaker
Which is what people think it is, though. A lot of people that don't get the band. Which irritates me. Very much irritates me because that's ne to your point. it is it's And also there's nothing wrong with creating art that says like, i'm I'm in pain. I feel hopeless right now. Like I enjoy that. But to your point, yeah, there's so many songs, even the darkest songs where there's like, but you know, there's, there's, there's beauty in this. If there's not hope often there's hope, but there's, there's beauty in these breakups and these disillusions, Sullivan street being such a great one of like pretty soon now I'm not, I'm not going to come around, but he doesn't dwell on that. Right. It's about the totality of that song.
00:14:14
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. there's There's a lot more balance to it. even so it's always just a good example right because sullivan street is about like this relationship's gonna end and i'm a little bummed because like i it felt like we were so close to something um but at the same time again that's sort of not an unoptimal i mean it's just you know yeah relationships don't work right it's this could have worked maybe i wish it would have but and it almost like sort of sets itself up to you think about the next one right that that maybe be that maybe the next one will um because again it's not that like we couldn't or it was impossible it just it didn't um it's sort of a um it's sort of
00:14:58
Speaker
realistic in that way right it's just that i'm almost but i'm not there i wish i could be like i you know i'm almost we're we're so close to being like fully in love in the way that we'd want to be um a lot of and actually the thing about so it's kind of a recurring theme of that first record especially when you think about oh yeah oh yeah um and it begins is this is that sort of thing rain king has a lot of that um Even a Ghost Train kind of goes there. ah Mr. Jones in kind of a different way because that's more of a ah ah a more of a um a younger man's yearning for like the pretty girl kind of thing as opposed to – but like it kind of goes along with it. It all kind of – a lot of that ties together though with the idea of like –
00:15:42
Speaker
Well, we could get there. I just haven't figured it out yet. I know I can somehow. but yeah Yeah. Can I ask you a question, Eric? I've been wanting to ask you this. What is your relationship as a fan with like Mr. Jones right now? Because so so many fans have such a complicated relationship with that song.
00:15:59
Speaker
um I don't listen to it as much as I used to because I said for a while, i almost thought it was like my all all-time favorite song. I think I put that as number one.
00:16:09
Speaker
right you know If you look at at my whole career, I don't listen to it as But there's some weird stuff with Mr. Jones with me. the People that did not know I was a Counting Crows fan.
00:16:19
Speaker
One of i sang it once at karaoke and and I'm not I love my I love my broadcasting voice, but I do hate I do not like my singing voice. And I did Mr. Jones. People didn't know I was kind of gross fan. And the guy was like, um like, I almost like, wow, that song is so you.
00:16:36
Speaker
Yeah. And then another person wrote me and said that when they were thinking that when they hear Mr. Jones, they think of me and I had no idea I was a fan of that, um of the band, actually. And mean this was years ago. This was back in 2000. So about 10 years after the song was big. So, um so it means personally that way, but I, I,
00:16:55
Speaker
um Well, you said you were you always in the green room that you were in radio a bit, and I was. So there's definitely a bit of that, like, i I want to be a big star. But I also appreciate that what Adam... And then, look, it has... There's a couple of songs on that that has that... What what
In-group dynamics among fans
00:17:08
Speaker
did we say, ah Chris? It has that... um um and Well, it's a coming-of-age tale, right, in a lot of ways. Yeah, especially someone in their adolescence and 20s. So it involves, and especially men, that if you spend time in bars with your mates, right, that's what you're getting at. Even Rain King, when you're talking about lyrics, the one that I always come, because it makes me laugh, and I say it's their most genius lyric even.
00:17:30
Speaker
I love the lyric, but it might not be the most genius, which is, she's been dying and I've been drinking. So yeah having that in song, it was, hey, we're all dying. And um a lot of times, right, you had a couple of beers and you're like, yeah, whatever, you know. Yeah.
00:17:43
Speaker
And just thinking about the the maybe mortality and and all those things. So um but but I also I also kind of got even back then, i think. that um it's weird.
00:17:57
Speaker
I guess I didn't know that when he wrote the song, I'm the one when it first hit the airwaves, maybe I didn't know that he wasn't popular when he wrote it. Right. Because I, you know, I didn't know maybe they were popular. okay But I still kind of got that idea of, um yeah, that not everything was going to be perfect a bit about being a rock star.
00:18:18
Speaker
So because it's one of the most misinterpreted songs in popular culture. It's okay like meatloaf. I would do anything for love, but I won't do that. Well, if you listen to the song, it's actually quite clear. If you listen to the words, everything and into who is Mr. Joe? It's his friend. He's hanging out with this guy. like that's That's the funny thing is like, who is Mr. Joe? It's like, is this not clear? am I crazy? Like, is this clearly like, sorry.
00:18:42
Speaker
you know I will never be lonely. Everything's going to be great. like And Adam himself, of course, has said this dozens of times. like You're supposed to get that this is not true, but the subtext.
00:18:52
Speaker
Well, especially pre-internet and pre-AI, people had like didn't know, and maybe the interviews, but people were convinced. I had a friend that who didn't know was a big Crows fan and said, like oh, I know what Mr. mr Jones about this, about that. And of course, there was you know jokes about it being you know part of his you know anatomy. But this guy had this big,
00:19:12
Speaker
thing. And I was like, that's not correct. But but he was like, I know i knew people that knew people. But at the same time, that was a thing that was not a thing that the the general idea of diving into the lyrics like that was not necessarily a thing that Adam discouraged, right? The idea that, well, you know, Maria's me and you're like, well, what does that mean?
00:19:33
Speaker
Right? Like, and that encourages I mean, I read an amazing essay once I don't know, maybe it's somewhere still buried on the internet. But like a 10 page thing breaking down all of these various things to try to prove that Maria was a person and that what Adam just didn't want to talk about.
00:19:49
Speaker
Right? Where it's sort of pulling these details and like thinking about like, well... If you go to the August and everything after the original song, that that that reference and there's so things that would sort of suggest that maybe he just doesn't really want to She's me, but she's not, you know, he says she's me to sort of deflect because this was like the most painful relationship that he didn't really want to talk about and describe who she was. um But so I think that some of that stuff a little bit encouraged someone to go, what what is Mr. Jones? And you're like, yeah well, no, that one's just Marty Jones. He's a person.
00:20:22
Speaker
Say hi, Marty. I think Mr. Jones, it's interesting. i personally love... Still, i still love the acoustic version from storytellers and just in general acoustic versions. Me too. Better than the original. 100%. I think it's interesting because I i think in part that song And I think to me, I think of that version of the song, but I think in general, other people might just think of the song um in terms of how they relate. I think that's one of those songs that's a little bit of a litmus test of like the hardcore, what would someone might say a a real Counting Crows fan versus the other Counting Crows fans, right? Because, you know, if you're at a concert and someone goes, which they don't,
00:21:08
Speaker
It's not really a problem anymore. They play the song every night and have for the last like five years or so.
Emotional connection through live performances
00:21:12
Speaker
But the number of times you know you took someone to a Counting Crows concert, if they were maybe a casual fan, you're like, oh my god, they're not going to play Mr. Jones? And you're like, no.
00:21:20
Speaker
yeah No, they're not. And it's okay. And I kind of don't care. They can play it if they want. But I really, as a real fan of this band, I don't give a shit if they play count yeah Mr. Jones or not. There's a lot of other songs. um And in fact, if I'm picking, I'd prefer they play the acoustic version, which I love. Because I was like...
00:21:36
Speaker
ah we talked about across a wire. I really think one of the sort of dividing lines of people with this band of like, is across a wire that like, if you heard that version of Mr. Jones and you were like,
00:21:48
Speaker
I love that. I'm with you. yeah It's like, those are the people that have been like, well, we're here forever. Like, show us what you got. Like, we're going on this journey and we don't really, we're just open to what you want to say to us um and wherever you want to go. Whereas the people who are like, I really kind of like the original one. Can you sing it like they do on the record? You're like, not that you're not a fan because I can't take that away from from you if you love the music, but also yeah you're kind of not like the same kind of fan.
00:22:16
Speaker
It's different. Right. you know i get you Dr. Adam, you you you bring up something that I've thought this before and said it, but I guess I didn't realize it also applied to Mr. Jones or i'm not making a connection I never made the connection. I guess some of my favorite songs by them are what I finally heard Adam um specifically say. It might have been on Kyle Mara's interview. i don't remember now. or might have been a couple. But he said that...
00:22:43
Speaker
um he understands why people don't see it this way, but that his his songs are both, he used better wording, both like optimistic and pessimistic, right? They're both positive and negative. And Mr. Jones has that, right? It's very upbeat and it has like, I want to be a star. And there's part of that. If you hear him, he thinks it's actually going to happen.
00:23:04
Speaker
Yeah. But then it also has the negatives about like doing things for the wrong reason. And, and and you know, then the girls are like, is it that negative thing about the girls? And also, like, he knows not everybody's going to he's not we might not even love himself afterwards and all that kind of stuff.
00:23:18
Speaker
But um I like those kind of songs that have a ah little bit of I mean, I guess Mrs. Potters has right kind of up tempo and some both. positive and negative um you know and of course possibility days and miami are some of the best yeah oh miami's one of my probably my top 10 but yeah i think that's that that that might be solo part of it i know i'm struggling to think of a counter example i'm struggling to think of a of a crow song that is purely sad without some hint of optimism me there one or two maybe you could try to sort of ah pull through but i feel like the 99% of the catalog. I'm thinking Speedway, maybe? Speedway is pretty sad.
00:24:01
Speaker
um i find goodnight i find your song Goodnight Elizabeth to be quite sad. i don't find it. Goodnight Elizabeth is sad, but... You know, in that song, that guy's having a good time.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yeah, he's wishing her the past of Like, look, I hope you're happy. I hope you're good. You know, the moon's a satellite. That's a beautiful, that's a romantic. I mean, it is devastating. But no, I'm with you because I was raised on like, yeah, that stuff. and And like that first Gin Blossoms record where it's the shimmery, upbeat guitar in every song is an emotional gut punch. If you listen to it's all about I'm drunk, I'm going to die, which is where the songwriter was coming from. And unfortunately we did lose him. But I mean, so many of those songs are about like, my life is a mess, but it's, but, if but, you but then you're singing along in the car and everything feels
Evolving narrative in Counting Crows' music
00:24:47
Speaker
great. You know, we're going to drive around this town. But and then you listen to lyrics. It's like, I'm a drunk and a failure and I ruined our relationship. And so you get that too.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah. So I ask about Mr. Jones because I do think it's such an interesting litmus test in terms of your fandom, because I love the across the wire version. Yeah. And again, you listen to that song. He's like, believe in me because I don't believe in anything.
00:25:08
Speaker
Like, this is not the most upbeat song if you if you dig into it. But then, you know, you get into that acoustic version where he where he does that break and he goes, you should not believe in me. And he hits every syllable in that. i i No joke, I just get chills talking about this. Like,
00:25:27
Speaker
This is a man that is in pain. And i that's what makes to me, because again, I got on board with recovering the satellites. So me being a teenager, pre-internet or proto-internet at the most, I thought recovering the satellites was a huge record. And it and it was.
00:25:44
Speaker
But I thought this must be... Hello, Voto. Sorry, yep. But I thought this must be massive. And and it and again, it it was a big hit, but I mean, um Long December blew up huge. i remember being in art class in school and they played that on the radio over and over and over again.
00:26:03
Speaker
But satellites is such a great counterpart to it's one of the great all time. I became important at work and it ruined my life records. I got what I wanted. Oh, no. And yeah, I don't know, man, maybe I'm just blessed, but I can kind of relate to that because like I've gotten what I wanted in life and been like as an academic, like, oh, you just want to be a professor. You just want that job. And then you get it and you go, I'm so glad I'm doing this.
00:26:30
Speaker
But it didn't fix me. you know, and that's what I love about that record so much is that energy. Yeah. And, you know, the acoustic version of kind of thinking about that, you know, obviously at the end they do the which I always love the end of the Miller's Angels ending. Right. Can't you hear me because I'm screaming? yeah You know, in the context of what we're talking about here in terms of how that song is misunderstood, it is it's extra. You really hit you that part that that he he adds to the end of that song.
00:26:58
Speaker
can't can't you hear me? Like, this is pretty clear guys. Like I've been trying to say this to you. I've been trying to explain this. Can't you hear me? You know, I'm screaming here at this. And, and ah the answer from a lot of people was, honestly, actually, we can't, um we're still, we still hear that song is about your dick and you know, i um yeah it's kind of, but so it's an interesting thing that, and think I think it adds to, I never really thought about it exactly that clearly, but it's part of what adds to why that across a wire version, And all the versions, are I mean, they they did that a bunch of different times in several versions. But, like, um why that's so powerful is that, like, it's... Yeah. um that That lack of understanding.
00:27:37
Speaker
Right. when People treat it almost like a novelty song of it's this goofy song about being famous. And it's like, damn it. Like I get I get personally
Fans' protectiveness and live performance preferences
00:27:45
Speaker
offended. Like, no, I care about this more than I care about, like certain members of my family. OK, like you're going to sit down and I'm going to explain this to you. OK, this is so foundationally important to me. And so, yeah, i I love that. And I do love playing that version of the song for people, because to your point, Chris, they either get it or they go, this yeah i don't know. i don't know. No, no, no. Thank you. And fair enough. Either way, you know, ah to your point, I don't gatekeep fans. If you like one song, you're a Counting Crows fan. Fair enough. Whatever. Like, you don't have to be me.
00:28:15
Speaker
It's fun. It's fun being this into it, but you don't have to. But yeah. But like, yeah, go ahead. Sorry. what what What do you this kind of tells me you're getting at. i had this note when you're talking even 10 minutes ago is that I wonder what.
00:28:31
Speaker
I guess I'm only thinking of people in our generation vaguely because I think someone, you know, who's, um you know, 20 years older and 30 years younger wouldn't even really maybe know the Crows that well. But what do you think, especially when it comes to Adam's, like you said, lyrics, lyrics maybe his personality, but I don't want to I analyze him too much, but more about, I guess I want to analyze more people's reception to him, which is that why, when I hear the albums, I have empathy and maybe it's part of me that's my personality maybe. And also i believe, and this ties into the sincerity we can talk about later, but why is it that I believe all of that
00:29:19
Speaker
And then other people, even a lot of critics, which ah you want to talk about, annoyed me. And by the way, when I watched a biography, because I guess I watched it, what, the day, the night after we interviewed Amy Scott, so I didn't get a chance to talk to her. But as much as I really enjoyed it, and I said before the parts I loved, it Talk about, like you said, defending. I almost felt like I had to defend a little brother I never had, even though I'm younger than Adam, because it also brought a lot of anger to me about people's reception to Adam and the Crows. And i you know, just like I could see why, whatever, not everybody's a Pink Floyd fan or not everybody likes the Black Crows or whatever or Dave Matthews. But
00:29:59
Speaker
people that, you know, is reception of a whiner. And also that annoys me to to such extent because it does not come across as whining to me ever. and i don't i don't get it. And the other thing, of course, which, but I think it ties into it a little bit is when people did quote quote unquote, criticize his dating life and and forget about like who he was with, but like, how could a girl ever like that? You know, almost like criticizing him personally. And I was like,
00:30:28
Speaker
I think people that say, by the way, women say that. And I think people that say that are either the men that I don't get. Right. And maybe I'm the same. Right. Maybe I maybe I project if I see some like, ah you know, meathead dating somebody or whatever. And I'm like, how could they like that guy or whatever? But I also um had the last point about that.
00:30:45
Speaker
But but that to me, it was always so obvious. I was like. Well, yeah, a guy that can write these lyrics and has his personality, which is both he's both outgoing and sensitive and really smart and funny and charming. Well, of course, he's going to get the girls, even if he wasn't like, are you out of your mind? To me, it's like they don't know women and maybe you women don't know women. So those two things made me mad. So if i want if Adam was right here, I'd give him a hug and be like, I don't I don't understand why you get that hate, Adam. him Never get it.
00:31:11
Speaker
No, it's interesting, too, because I think you hit the nail on the head. I think there's a certain amount of one you got to keep in mind. And you two know this. And anybody that knows the Crows or came up in our age know this. This also existed in a time in celebrity where that stuff still kind of could happen.
00:31:28
Speaker
Unless you're kind of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey, like it's it's so weird. like people care about famous people's lives, but it's so splintered. You know, you can go on Twitter if you, if you want and figure out anybody's dating life, but it's not so homogenized where everybody, okay, the news is counting crows, counting crows dork is dating like the hottest woman on the planet.
00:31:50
Speaker
You know, it was still a time where there was only so much air to, to, to take up. And so he, for whatever reason, took up that air. And I do think it's because, there was sort of this, not sort of, there was this energy of why is this guy not staying in his lane?
00:32:05
Speaker
Why is this guy who's got the the dreads and he's singing about, you know, wanting to be famous and which again, people didn't get the song. Oh, he must be courting these, you know, and and it's like, how is he with her? How is he?
00:32:19
Speaker
And the whole thing about dating the two women from friends, we don't need to go there. Everybody knows the actual, you know, specifics of, Not exactly right. Not not quite the way it was presented, but I think it's a lot of and as a guy.
00:32:32
Speaker
to your point, Eric, as a guy that like I look, look I mean, look, I look, at I look like I just got hit by a car and like I i have a gorgeous wife. I've done very well because I'm nice.
00:32:43
Speaker
I'm creative. I know how to talk. I'm not a dick. Like that doesn't get every girl, but man, it does pretty darn
Dr. Adam's personal favorites and their impact
00:32:51
Speaker
well. Like if if you could play, uh, if you could sing and write lyrics and play the piano, right. Then you get a couple more then. Right. so it's not It's not rocket surgery over here. And so, yeah. And the guy's emotionally available. He's, he's articulate. He, he can, and that's, these things are attractive and it does irritate people because I think it's a sense of he didn't stay in his lane. And think it was just a part of it. And,
00:33:14
Speaker
It's also once you kind of open that door, it's hard to close it narrative wise, like from a communication standpoint. Once you become the guy we pick on for dating women that then that narrative kind of gets set.
00:33:25
Speaker
And I think it just sort of stuck all to the when he was dating Henry Rossum or whomever, like still I would hear this stuff sometimes. But do you agree that also ties that it's an yeah, please, Chris.
00:33:36
Speaker
I was saying that part of the the context, though, is also the 90s, right? Like, when you look at other alt-rock 90s stars, um there was this concern. You know, there's always the thing of, like, has this person or this band sold out, right? And so if you look at Kurt Cobain, Eddie Vedder, Billy Corgan, um...
00:33:59
Speaker
yeah Rivers Cuomo, ah even to some extent, Nolan, Liam Gallagher, although they that was sort of a different thing in the UK. Like, we don't know who they dated. They were generally, for whatever reason, not dating super famous people.
00:34:12
Speaker
You know Adam sold as many records as the kind cross as many records, those people. And I think it was that context, though, of like, is this thing that's supposed to be indie and pure? And it's like an indie rock record. But this guy is now.
00:34:25
Speaker
dating these famous and being famous hanging out at the Viper Room he's selling out in a certain sense which of course it's not he's just meeting going to LA and meeting people and dating them like it's not you know obviously not but I think that's a lot of the weird context of that era that I think people struggle with because like um and to your point then people sort of imprinted on that if you dated famous people. It's interesting. I also, it's weird as as I'm thinking about this, that i is it odd that I have loved a lot of musicians who had this problem. Big John Mayer fan, you know, for example, people still talk about people John Mayer dated 20 years ago.
00:35:05
Speaker
Like, it's not really a relevant topic of conversation to, if you want to talk about John Mayer's music in 2026, but people do. And the same, I think people still say, with you know, with Adam, of oh yeah, dated Courtney, you know, Courtney Cox and Jennifer Anderson.
00:35:18
Speaker
Okay, that was, you know, 30 years ago, people graduated from college right now who are, were not born when that relationship occurred. So do we care? Why do we care?
00:35:30
Speaker
Why is that relevant?
00:35:33
Speaker
I don't care. I didn't care then. I don't care now. That's the thing. You asked me why. do be i i I don't care what brand of laundry detergent he uses either. It's not relevant to the art. It's not relevant to anything. I wish him to be happy the same as I wish anybody seems to be. And I'm so glad. But I wish that for the two of you. I wish that for everybody listening to this in equal amount that I do. Adam Duritz, I just want.
00:35:57
Speaker
everyone to be happy. i don't i I don't care in the nicest possible way. I care in that I want good things and however that manifests, i just that's all I care about. So yeah, I don't know, man. think care though with relationships.
00:36:10
Speaker
Relationships though, I think are always interesting thing with songwriters, particularly songs who write about romantic things because I think there's a sort of natural interest in the relationships because they sort of feed Like, you go, oh, this song is about this. You go, okay, well, that's kind of interesting. That's sort of, maybe I don't care. It's not important to me exactly. But it's sort of part of the story. Like, there are certain...
00:36:30
Speaker
you can can say, oh, these songs kind of connect, right? Like like ah Monkey and Holiday in Spain, right? Reference the same person, presumably there. And you're like, okay, well, that's an interesting, I'm connecting some dots there. And you go, oh, Monkey and Mercury are kind of about the same person. Okay, well, that's two sides of a relationship. That's interesting. It's not particularly relevant that that person is apparently Courtney Cox, but it's like, it's relevant that that's a relationship and I can connect those dots. And those people sort of, you know,
00:37:00
Speaker
And I want to say, too, adam Adam knows what he was doing. I mean, Courtney was in that video for a long December, and she did an incredible job. I don't know anybody that could have done it better. I mean, she that video is, long December might be my favorite music video of all time.
00:37:15
Speaker
It is so much, talk about pathos. There's so much emotion in that and her performance in it. The cinematography is beautiful. But also, it's not Mrs. Smith's lullaby. You know, or it's it's Mrs. Potter's lullaby. And there's there's that acknowledgement of Monica Potter.
Live performance anecdotes
00:37:30
Speaker
You know, it's it's in there. He's he's not hiding it that much. And so as much of the oh, we shouldn't. And I just said this. so I'm talking to myself as much as people like me go, oh, we shouldn't care. We shouldn't care. I mean, he he he sprinkled it in there purposely, which is his right. But I mean, there you go. You know, well And it goes back to what at the beginning, though, to bring it all the way back, right? Like the not hiding aspect, the sort of brave of like, I guess I could change Potter to daughter or whatever. But that's what I wrote it's about a person. And, you know, I'm just going to share that.
00:38:03
Speaker
Yeah. Well, okay. But then it it it is tricky sometimes of then dealing with the the fallout of that to say, okay, well now I have revealed that and people are going to do with that what they will. And sometimes they don't always do with it the nicest possible thing because culture is weird and people are you know, have their predilections and take things in a certain direction. You know, like you can, the the bravery aspect, we go, oh yeah, he's just sharing, he's sharing this thing about his life. And that's awesome because we want to know, and we're just interested in, in his life as it relates to, because of it it relates to his music. And then other people take that to sort of use that as fodder for making jokes and,
00:38:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Although, although, doc was going say although Dr. Adam, if I agree with, I know that you're, I could tell you're a nice guy that went the best for people. Although if he was ah married, his true love at age 21, we might not have gotten all the great angst we got on the first. five records or whatever, or even to this day. um But what we were talking about kind of, doveed and I guess I was kind of hinting at that kind of dovetailed at what, to use an academic, academics love to use that word, tough dovetailed into this, that um of one of the other subjects that we said we' we're going to talk about, which is like the in-group, out-group.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah. Is that kind of tied, and I'd like to hear your take, kind of ties like why do some people think it's whining when I never got that. And then, of course, we've talked about before, and you happen to also be a professor, that it's you know empirically proven, kind of wink-wink, that know Crows fans have high IQs, and um and and maybe the sincerity you talked about, and at least some kind of honesty about maybe certain emotions. I don't know if angst is, i don't know if angst is a shared trade or not. Maybe not.
00:39:45
Speaker
um Like, cause people can like Seinfeld without being like Seinfeld. do You know what i mean? So I'm not sure. um But yeah, please talk about that. Maybe some of that in group, out group. Yeah. fans yeah Well, it's funny. It's like I said earlier, I mean, if if this is for you, it's really for you. And if, and there are certainly people that just enjoy a couple songs and they're, they're fans and that's perfectly fine. But There's almost a defensiveness that comes with being a really big fan of this band because this band has been stigmatized. I think because they got so big.
00:40:17
Speaker
I think because especially that first record is not on paper a record designed to blow up as big as it did. I mean, nothing blows up that big, period. I mean, especially not now. I mean, it wasn't.
00:40:30
Speaker
designed to be that big and and the band wasn't fully formed yet. Like they weren't prepared for the success. And so I do think there's there was some backlash that really settled in and never left. And I think as much as satellites is one of my favorite records of all time, i think satellites is a record that it like accidentally if you're looking to go, oh, this guy's, you know, doesn't appreciate anything. He's whining. You can find it in that record. I don't see it that way, but I think you can find that. And so I think there is definitely just sort of a big recipe for that backlash that kind of sunk in. And that to me entrenched fans as being protective of the band. Like we are not, I always say we are not possessive. We want you to love it too, but we are very protective.
00:41:17
Speaker
Like I don't want to hear any, you you can tell me all the live long day. i don't like that band. Fair enough. Like you have your taste. But the misconceptions of it or the talking about the celebrity or something that offends me because I think, OK, but that has nothing to do with the art.
00:41:31
Speaker
You can not like the art, but the the misconceptions do frustrate me. And so if you go as I do and join like Facebook groups for Counting Crows, you get people that are so passionate and so overwhelmingly emotional to a degree like I'm trying to think.
00:41:48
Speaker
like, i love the
Anticipation of new music and its significance
00:41:50
Speaker
Gaslight Anthem. You know, i'm a big Gaslight Anthem fan, but I don't have the same kind of emotional investment I do with the Crows. And part of that is I was a teenager when I discovered the Crows. But I don't have that kind of foundational aspect of who I am. And so I do think the stigma that comes and I don't, i don't want to overplay cause it's, there's not that much, but we all, we're all aware of it. I think that makes us as fans more entrenched and more protective. And I think that in turn makes the band more a part of your identity, because if you have this thing, you love that you're part of an in-group
00:42:24
Speaker
And the out group is saying like, this is is negative. Well, you can really become, you either give it up, right? Or you get you get defensive to a degree. Because like, I love my brother, but my brother cannot stand Counting Crows. Why? I don't know. He can't articulate it. He's like, i don't like that. i don't like that band. Matchbox 20, put it on. He says, this is great. Third Eye Blind, put it on. This is great. Counting Crows is like, don't know. I think a girl heard him. I'll tell you the truth. I think a girl probably broke his heart and loved that band. He'll admit it. But I have these arguments with him where I'm like, dude, i don't know why you care then. Just don't care. Like, let me have this. This is my thing. And part of it might be a little brother getting into it because if your little brother's into something, it can't be cool.
00:43:06
Speaker
But I don't know, man. So that's a big part of it, I think, to your point is is i do think it is the protectiveness that makes me feel like if you meet a fan, like on the street, you meet a counting crows, like you're like, you're my friend. I'm like, give me a hug. Like, come here. And if you, if you like, like big star or something, I might go, Hey, good for you. I love big star. But if it's the crows, i'm like, Oh, come here. Like, you know, you want to you want to hang out? Like, what's your Instagram? You know, like, I need to know you, you know what i mean?
00:43:35
Speaker
Yeah. part of i think yeah it's Part of it's the, the, the way the in-group in group and the out group was constructed to, so cause guess I'd anthem, I think is a good example because that's a very, that's a band that sort of started small and sort of blew up. And particularly it came from a punk rock background because I'm a huge Gaslight Anthem fan too. I've always assumed with them, I'm sort of in the out group in a sense, because it's like the in group is like the sort of like the punk rock. Like we were here when we were in basements kind of thing. um And yes, no, yeah. i started listening but to to the 59 sound and the first time I saw them was at Terminal 5. So yes, I didn't see them in a basement. Sorry, but that's the, and that's like the punk rock thing of like, you know, yeah
00:44:13
Speaker
um You know, if I if i turn up a corner somewhere, you'd you'd find a ah ah Gaslight Anthem poster on the side here. But shout out to Jeff Everett. They quoted around here.
00:44:25
Speaker
They quoted round around here. ah that's And i love I love that. In group in that regard. um But whereas with the Crows, right, your point, like they sort of weren't really – like they had obviously some level of following in in San Francisco before that. But they it wasn't like they were a quiet band that blew up. They sort of blew up so quickly. would say weird to sort of keep going with the mayor thing, but I think he had a similar thing where he sort of shot up so quickly that then what happens is that you start with this large fan base and you whittle it away.
00:44:56
Speaker
And so you end up with this weird thing where – a lot of people have been like, oh yeah, that was a thing I used to like. And then you've got other people who are like, no, no, I'm still with this. And I think that creates a weird tension because you've got a lot more people like, oh yeah, that's a, we've forgotten that. And you're like, I have not forgotten that. And so that tension I think is kind of a strange, you know, it's a different relationship. It's not that someone, you love a thing that no one's heard of because everyone's kind of heard of the band at that point.
00:45:24
Speaker
um It's you love a thing that people are like, oh, that's kind of, nothing to me or or sort of just a song to me or whatever. And you're like, well, this is not just a song. So it gives you that sort of, again, your point, that defensive relationship. I also think the nature of that sincerity and that the the strong relationship we have lyrically, a lot of people to it, creates this sort of thing because it's not just, I like this band a lot that you don't, well, I like them more than you think. um It's, I have this very meaningful relationship to these songs. It's
00:45:58
Speaker
very deep like to use a like my wife is a big fan of the band hansen right and that's a band sort of a similar thing again where they blew up very quickly they've sort of whittled away and there's very very hardcore fans um about of that band and they're sort of defensive but it's kind of a different thing because i think lyrically that group is much more i think like musically focused people love the music of hansen they obviously lot them love the lyrics too i don't want to um you know I know a very, very big, maybe the biggest Hanson fan who's also a big, a giant Gantt-Counting Crows fan um who would probably tell me I'm wrong on the Hanson thing maybe. But like I feel there that like the relationship to those songs is different than with the Crows where it's like,
00:46:40
Speaker
oh shoot, you don't like, if you want to understand me, you need to understand this song. And someone goes, oh no, that's just weird. And you're like, now you're kind of actively offending me because you're sort of throwing away what feels like sort of a piece of you because those songs are sort of so ingrained.
00:46:57
Speaker
um Right. You know, Yeah, and I think part of that is how sporadic the records have come out because it's almost like you're being visited by this friend you haven't seen in forever.
Comparison with other fan bases
00:47:09
Speaker
and every time, at least the last three records, I always think, well, yeah that's got to be it. Like, we might not ever get anything else. And then when something drops, you're like, oh, my God. And to hear Adam's voice come back again, I remember the first time I put on Hard Candy. And I just remember hearing that opening track and feeling...
00:47:29
Speaker
this joy, just hearing this voice. It's like, i'm but my friend is back. I didn't know if he'd come back, but here he is. And part of that is that track is his vocals on that track are so pristine. I mean, that whole record is, prit that's the whole point, right? Of Hard Candy is, is a very pristine, little bit too much for my taste, to be honest. I love it, but it's, it's not one of my favorites because the production is so sweet, but that's just me. But you know, you compare that to like one of my very favorite Crows tracks ever is hanging around because the whole thing just sounds filthy. Like that, that guitar is so gro like grody and sounds like beer stained carpet and cigarette butts. I'm like, yeah, man, I love brown. i no Gotta love it. So that's my taste.
00:48:10
Speaker
But I do. I think part of it is like when Butter Miracle, like the the complete sweets dropped, I remember thinking like, I can't believe I'm getting another record from this band. And I remember thinking I may not, maybe I'm not going to like this one.
00:48:23
Speaker
But then you hear, Adam doing Spaceman in Tulsa, which for my money is one of the best songs he's ever done. I mean, it's just disgustingly good.
00:48:34
Speaker
And my nine-year-old, that's his favorite song. He gets to sing the curse. He gets to sing the curse words. But we listen to it on the way to hockey practice because it pumps him up because he's like, come on. And he's like, Dad, what's this song about? I'm like, well... I kind of give them the sanitized version.
00:48:51
Speaker
And so it's it's amazing to me. Yeah. And so I do. I think the gaps between albums make them so much more resonant because we as fans have so much time to live with what they do.
00:49:03
Speaker
And and unpack these songs and live with them. And so, yeah, I don't know. That's not really related to anything, but I wanted to mention it. Yeah, but see, I'm going a different direction with that, though, because I think the way I fill those gaps is that i'm I've listened to so many concerts. Right. And so oh that's I think another angle in terms of like if you're listening to tapes of the band.
00:49:25
Speaker
You know, it's interesting because, again, a lot of what they do live is pretty – is not pushing people too much. But, like, one of my favorite things will be, like, okay, there's an a crazy version around here. And, again, in terms of, like, bringing people to your side, when you're, like, I've got this thing you should listen to.
00:49:44
Speaker
But before you start, okay, so it's 10 minutes long. And it's this one song, but it's also these two other songs. And what's important is that he's making up the words in the middle. The other the rest of the song is the normal version, but he's going to connect these two dots. And what you've got to listen for is the way that Charlie is playing the piano that
Emotional connection to specific songs
00:50:00
Speaker
plays off the way these, and you sound like an insane person, but also this is what I love, like listening. If there's a a particularly good version of round here that I'm listening to when I'm going through the show, I'm like, that's going to make my week.
00:50:13
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, um, maybe, maybe, maybe a couple of weeks if, if how, depending on how good it is and maybe they're doing different versions and variants. And now I've got two weeks worth of new versions of round here to listen to. So now I'm set. Um, but it's, it's a barrier to entry because you're kind of like the ask that you're saying when you want someone to come along with you is sometimes large, you know, chris i was on it it's not three minutes long. It's 12 minutes long. No, I was on a date in college and God almighty, I'm sitting there. I'm talking this nice girl. I'm like, no, listen, you got to listen to this one. Cause like, okay, this has got the private archipelago riff that he does. And then it, then it goes into this other, and she's looking at me like, who are you?
00:50:55
Speaker
What are you doing? I'm like just listen, no, just trust me. Just because she she made the mistake of saying she was a Counting Crows fan. I was like, go yeah hold on just a minute. and Go through like on my my iPod at the time, going through around here, one, two, three, seven, 19, 15, 16. I'm like, okay, here we go. Because it's my favorite song of all time. So I can listen to any version of that song. Like there is no song that has ever been composed that is that means nearly as much to me as that song.
00:51:17
Speaker
So you could play that on a Casio making fart sounds. and It's my favorite song. I don't care. It's bulletproof. You cannot wreck that song, but yeah, sorry. I just get excited. I don't have anyone else to talk to about this in my entire life. So this is very cathartic for Well, you brought up, I know this isn't the point of your expertise about the communications and maybe how non-fans, but, but when we're talking about concerts, it kind of brings up like, especially in the last 15 years, maybe, ah people who attend the concerts, um,
00:51:45
Speaker
where Of course, you're going to always get some casual people that know the so that know the name or just want to go and drink some wine or something. But um where you kind of have the regulars now, but only kind of know the hits, but they're regulars and still go every year.
00:51:59
Speaker
um And then you have the hardcore ah fans that know everything and are more obsessed with them. but but But because Dr. Adam, you brought up an interesting point to me, which like I felt the exact, I wasn't as cynical as you at the time about Hard Candy. I actually had more that they would still release albums every three years in perpetuity, which of course did not happen. But um when I first heard um Hard Candy, I felt the same thing, that it was an old friend. And and the song is kind of an assoucer song anyway.
00:52:31
Speaker
right out but But it gave that great feeling. and But that's why I kind of get upset when which again, I understand that I understand the economics and I understand that not everybody can you know be like me or they'd all host podcasts about the Count of Crows. But that's because like what you're saying about the different you know release dates and they might um talk about certain times of your life and and you'll identify those things. That's why as much as I love August or this, when they play that or the same songs, I was like, oh, great. I like to yeah remember about me at a bar when I'm 22. But I also want to remember
00:53:08
Speaker
when I'm 35 and 45. or, know, I want to hear some of those other songs because to me, the crows are all about this large narrative that is still ongoing because they're all still alive and still with us and still making music. And I don't just only want to live in that time, but I'm so sorry, a little bit of a sidestep from what you're talking about, but, but I do think of that because And I think that's part of what makes them great that these callbacks to to Maria and that there is this like longer narrative that makes like the multi-decade journey worthwhile.
00:53:43
Speaker
So, yeah.
Dr. Adam's favorite tracks and insights
00:53:44
Speaker
And I'm I'm with you where if I go see them, which I do every chance I get, I i don't care if they don't play around here because i know I'll hear it some other time. I've heard it if they want to dust off.
00:53:56
Speaker
you know, I'd Mercury or whatever, like I'm there for it, you know, because I want to hear or like Under the Aurora, which is another one of my favorite songs I've done recently. like It's so good. So good. And to the point that I remember listening to I know I keep talking about a miracle, but I put that on. I thought to myself, I can't believe how much I like this because I'm not trying to slag any bands, but I've had bands that I really cared about that put out tour record. You know, they they they put out a record to tour and I think this is fine.
00:54:28
Speaker
This is fine. I'm glad you did it. But the count with the crows, I never feel that way. Now, do I love somewhere under wonderland as much as I love satellites? Like, no, because it's, I'm in a different point in my life. i have a different relationship with that record, but I love that record for what it is.
00:54:43
Speaker
So yeah, I'm with you. Like I'll, I want to hear, I mean, I'm sick, man. I want to hear the deep cuts. I want to hear, I want to hear Marjorie dreams of horses. No, not another horse dreamers blues. I want to hear Marjorie dreams of horses. Like, That's me. Like, I'm gross. Like, give give it to me. i'll I'll take whatever you got. Yeah.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah. And even some of the, yeah, the Summer Under Wonderland songs, I'd like to hear more of them because I think some of them are great live. And I think it still brings me back to that time because I spent a lot of time listening to that record a lot. So I do want to hear Elvis Goes to Hollywood yeah and hear that live. Right. So, yeah.
00:55:17
Speaker
So, ah yeah, you have a lot to talk about. And we'll certainly win. I know we didn't cover all the topics and we certainly want to have you back on at some point, especially because now we know, you know, all the albums. So maybe we can have you when we do some of the future deep dives and and song rankings. But speaking of which, speaking of which, I'll throw you a bone and say for the first five albums only, because those are the only five we talked about. Can you name and maybe just give quick 30 seconds or so of what your favorite track is on each of those five albums? Right. You know, so like starting with August and then you know recovering Hard Candy. I'm sorry. That's a life. Hard Candy and Saturday nights.
00:55:59
Speaker
OK, we know number one. We know August. Yep. Yep. Brown here just nukes everything from space. If I had to give a second, probably murder of one drum beat. Like you hear why the label wanted that as a hit. Like that drum beat is it's sick. It's disgusting. It's so good. Um,
Acknowledgment and future collaborations
00:56:15
Speaker
and also it's everything good about County crows. It's such an anthemic song. Um, satellites. Oh God almighty. Satellites is hard.
00:56:23
Speaker
Cause like, I want to say angels because that's, that's my entry point. Hmm. Hmm. Oh, but also Long December might be like one of the best song is is one of the best songs. I know I got to go with Angels Angels because. Oh, it's great. Yeah, there's nothing quite like it in their whole discography. I mean, that's it's just got so much meat to it. Like it's crunchy and it's angry and it's oh, man, like that's that's like i feel like I could run through a wall when I listen to that song. Like i love that. And as much as people that's what I put on, we're like, oh, go to girls. He's the whiny guy. I'm like, listen to this asshole. OK, yeah.
00:56:56
Speaker
go to feel like but I used to say that when people used to say like, ah oh, that's like, ah i don't even know some ridiculous like 90s sissy music. I told you that was that I was I was was think I'd mentioned once in the podcast I had a summer job at like a machine shop and some kid wanted to beat me up because I liked Rain King or something. and i Like, what do you like? He's like, tool.
00:57:17
Speaker
Which is true. We like Tool. and sure i go yeah Well, you're a Tool. How about that? Tool, okay. It's good. But I wasn't looking to fight people that like Tool. but yeah So anyway, ah Desert Life, what do you think?
00:57:29
Speaker
Oh, God. See, for years, that was my favorite Crows record. That was my favorite. It's so consistent. There's not a single song I will skip on that record. Maybe All My Friends every once in while because that gets to be... heavy. Yeah.
00:57:45
Speaker
I think that is a contemporary... i mean, not a contemporary. I think that is maybe their most unappreciated super song, in a way, All My Friends. And yeah by the way, that's a perfect example because that's about being 35, right? because Or 33, he says. But that's about being in your mid-30s and maybe other people. And even if you were one of the married ones, it's how how people have...
00:58:05
Speaker
now go going on different paths and you're not all on the same path anymore. So I like hearing that song too, because it's a little different than the feeling you're going to get when you're 20 and when you're 45 or whatever. So, yeah. um how about hard candy?
00:58:19
Speaker
Well, hold on. No, no, didn't give my answer. Um, I want, Hmm, probably Amy, Amy hit the atmosphere. Okay. So you pick the two songs, you pick the two songs that they almost never play live that people want to play live. It's so good. Hard candy is easy. Miami all day long, all day long. That's my favorite guitar solo. Maybe one of my favorite guitar solos, period.
00:58:39
Speaker
But that solo is so good. I'll go on and I think Emmy does it live. I don't know. I'll put it on and just fast forward to that point and just hear him play it. And oh, my gosh, like i I just I don't know what it is. But that that's a song. Miami is a song. Like if I wanted to introduce somebody to the band, especially when I was single, if I like to go, I'd be like, listen to this song.
00:58:57
Speaker
Because every time I play it, for whatever reason, it's the make a circle in the sand, make a halo with your hand. Like that lyric, I don't know why that lyric connects with everybody I've played that song for.
00:59:08
Speaker
And it's very open to interpretation. like Like, I hate to say it. Like, I love that song, but it's not a lyric that connects with me compared to the other ones. I mean, you know, but but that song is so... I don't know. It's, it's to me, it's the best of that record. And that's the record I struggle with the most in that I cherry pick the most out of hard candy.
00:59:26
Speaker
Cause the heights are so high on that one. And then there are ones that are there and I, they just don't, they don't particularly move me for whatever reason. Again, I like the album, but, ah Saturday nights and Sunday mornings. Now that's, that album is one that like I loved. I really, really loved and I don't revisit it as much as others. um i like how boys Probably Cowboys. Cowboys.
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put, yeah. Again, for another, well I was thinking of the tool guy, like, and, and they like, ah what is it? Some kind of like, you know, weak music or girls like there's a sissy music or whatever. And then I'm like, oh yeah, go listen to 1492, our Cowboys, right? They're real, real mellow. Yeah. Being punched in the face over and over and over again in the best way. No, I love that. Yeah. Like an Adams vocal. I always, what I love about those two songs in particular, but Cowboys is,
01:00:17
Speaker
Adam sounds he's fallen apart. Like his talk about emoting. That man sounds like his, like he's just wrecked as a human being in those vocal takes. They are so good. Yeah. And they're not either. Exactly. So the Cowboys is almost the best. And we kind of said this, but it's almost the best example of like, yeah, I guess somebody could see it as like wine. Like to me, it sounds so real. And not only does it require a talent to do it, but it's so hard to do that. I think. Right.
01:00:44
Speaker
um Hey, by the way, that that breakdown, and maybe a good place to start wrapping things up, but sure that that that kind of, I don't know what else would say, off the deep end or kind of this and you know mental dislocation, I guess, of 1492 and Cowboys in a way that's kind of ah a weird sequel to Mr. Jones, right? yeah Because of getting everything you want and excess, and then he hadn't been settled down by that point. And he's still like, I can still get drunk every night and and be a rock star and get all the girls I want. And, uh, yeah, maybe it didn't make me perfectly happy.
01:01:23
Speaker
Right. Yeah. 1492 is a very different bar song than Mr. Jones. Also a bar song though. Yeah. Mr. Jones is home with his family enjoying a nice quiet night. And, uh, yeah.
01:01:37
Speaker
Divergent paths by that point. I think you could safely say, but that's why I like, again, that just, and to loop it up and this will last thing I say, but that's again, the bravery of the songwriting to write something that's nasty and like about myself. It's like, no, I'm in a bad place and I'm not doing good things and I'm, and, but I'm going to present it to you. That takes a lot of courage because most people would not write like that.
01:01:58
Speaker
So there you go. That's why I love it. Well, Dr. Adam, congratulations on, um of course, being a Crows fan. That's the number one. Congratulations. and Thank And reaching out to us on the on the podcast. um but Congratulations to making good life decisions.
01:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, from contacting us. Tell my dad, please. No, go ahead. But on on on your sister-wife's podcast. Yeah. Super for those of you that um ah are a fan of that reality TV show and and maybe and maybe some point will ah ah when you come back on, we'll get you to say how you started that. Is there any connection to your part of your personality that likes those two things?
01:02:33
Speaker
um But ah but but this podcast is super successful. And so, yeah, congratulations. A couple hundred episodes in. Yeah. And still then well and we might have to do as the as the early YouTube people would say, like, ah we're kind of doing a collab, right? Like, yeah, man, our podcast. And then we will maybe join your podcast at some point. So I'd love to because I do, especially on my Patreon, patreon.com slash your live professor. um I do like to interview creators and just talk about their work and why they create, because like a lot of us, we don't have to do this. We we love doing it.
01:03:07
Speaker
yeah And so I would love to have you both on and we can just freestyle about the crows and your podcast and how you guys got to like, I, you know, I've heard, I i know some stuff, but and you know, my audience, my audience, a lot of them love the crows. And so by all means, come on and we can just, we can just chat. I'd love to have you guys on.
01:03:23
Speaker
Cool. Uh, Chris, anything else to wrap up before we, I think that's all we got for today. All right. Thank you. And yeah, Adam, we'll get you on ah to do yeah some some deep dives into some of their albums and songs. So thank you so much. And we look forward to more analysis about the Crows and the the Crows fans in future episodes. Have a great day and looking forward to having you back here with us on Sullivan Street.
01:03:46
Speaker
Goodbye.