Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
E30: Hospital (Coby Brown Interview)
235 Plays1 month ago
"Hospital" was one of the songs recorded by Counting Crows for the Underwater Sunshine album.
Join us on this special episode, as we get a chance to interview COBY BROWN (the writer and original performer of the song).
Learn about his special relationship with IMMY and the Crows, his own health care battles, his past and future projects, and why this song resonated with Adam.
Original Hospital Song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoiur-33-e4
Coby Brown's Website:
Coby Brown's Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/cbrownsongs
Check out Immy in one of Coby's Videos..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcnv5rxK5nM
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Kobe Brown and 'Hospital'
00:00:16
Speaker
Welcome to Sullivan Street again, episode 30, the hospital episode. And Chris, this is why podcasts are so good, because we're having a whole podcast about a song from a covers album by The Crows called Hospital, and we can do a whole podcast about it. any and and And of course, included with this is our special guest today, Kobe Brown, the writer of the song Hospital, but not just the writer of the song Hospital,
00:00:41
Speaker
a great musician performing artist in his own right and we're gonna talk about his career and i'm excited about that chris anything to add before we say hi to kobe but oh yeah it's it's the point right we could go we could go about pretty much any crow song for an hour and so yeah let's let's do let's deep you know but we're slowly gonna get cover all of america over the time we've got we've got a lot of time but um And I know you can't really see it because I wouldn't usually wear this and I've been sleeping in it mostly but I Decided to actually wear a crow shirt today, which I usually don't but because white kind of reminds me of the hospital the the the sterile hospital But this is also it has a heart on it, but it's nothing to do with hospital But you know, this is the one that has kangaroo and it has it's supposed to be love as a trap.
Kobe Brown's Career Overview
00:01:22
Speaker
That's the theme which is very oh that's that's the idea of the shirt of the heart in the trap but Kobe
00:01:29
Speaker
the the the yeah Anyway, Kobe, welcome to the podcast. We're so happy to have you. Thank you. I'm i'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. And this is great because we get the show, not only is it a neat song, a great song, and I've gotten it. The the one cool thing about this is like preparing for the show, now I like this song even more, both versions, the Kobe version and the Crows version, just listening to it the last couple of days and catching little things. um so but But let's first talk about Kobe Brown and his background bio ah with music, his releases, and correct me if I'm wrong, but if people are interested,
00:02:04
Speaker
in hearing music from you purchasing music obviously they can go to your youtube channel and it looks like for purchasing band camp you can still buy stuff in amazon is that correct yeah you you can you can buy stuff at band camp um i don't know about amazon but then can buy i like have a store or whatever. And okay and one and yeah, that's um that's a good place to go, or obviously all the streamers, but Bandcamp first. Yeah, that's true. If you actually want to support an artist, go to Bandcamp. Yeah, yeah that's that's what I thought. Yeah, I think some of the physical CDs I saw on Amazon. But yeah, I agree. Go to Bandcamp first. So it looks like in the start of your career, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, because I know with a lot of indie artists and up and coming artists, sometimes it's piecemeal, right? And a lot of yeah so when you started, it looks like your first official EP release was in 98. And then you had maybe another
00:02:56
Speaker
Longer ep later to that was called first pancake and then i and then I saw one in 2000 homesick and another one true shines in 2004 longer ep and time is now another kind of longer right so all sorts of good music and then it seems like incorrectly from wrong and I know this ties into the timing and the themes is.
Impact of Cancer on Kobe's Music Journey
00:03:17
Speaker
Your career is getting started, and then you had this cancer diagnosis that's a big part of your journey. And your first official release, I'm sorry, your first long play release was after that, actually. Is that correct? well The Stars and Curses? I had, Stars and Curses um was my second full-length record. I had my first band, which is the one you referenced called Homesick. Oh, okay. So that was with the band. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, it was with a different, it was with my first band. but um and And then I, you know, I was just chasing the brass ring as you do, trying to, and this was at a time when it was like about getting a record deal and yeah and trying to get a start and get some, you know, support and get opportunities that didn't come any other way. So I chased that for a while and I was sort of, um
00:04:12
Speaker
I had this band that I made that record homesick with. And and they were great. It was just, um it sort of ran its course. and And then I sort of went back to chasing the record deal thing as a solo artist. and um But um then I got diagnosed in 2006 with a weird pediatric tumor in my sinus. um You don't have to get into all that. but um It was called Ewing's Sarcoma and I had to go through, I mean, I just was like, what? And so ah music music very quickly took a big time backseat and um because I had to go into pretty extensive, and like a year really gnarly treatment. But um came out the other side and and I was at this crossroads with music and not sure I wanted to keep
00:05:05
Speaker
um I mean, I was heartbroken about it, but it was just like it it wasn't going the way I wanted it to. And I thought, well, this is a good opportunity to reset. and maybe i'll Maybe I'll go to law school. And then um ah you know over the course of that year, while I was in treatment, I couldn't do a goddamn thing. so i just um I ended up writing songs and I had been at this really like stuck place and songs started coming in. And and um at the end of that year, I just I had I didn't know how to, you know, you come out of a tree out of treatment and you you got to figure out how to reintegrate yourself into normal life. And um I just was like, I don't know how to do anything else except write songs. So I think I have some songs to write now. Thank God. And I'm going to spend
00:05:53
Speaker
some time finishing these. And then I just decided, well,
Collaboration with Emmer Gluck
00:05:57
Speaker
there's a record here. And and we started making the record. And actually, that's when I met Emmer Gluck. So good um and Emmer Gluck came to see me play one night because he knew my drummer and guitar player at the time. And and I'd heard about the band sort of like the guys in my band like had had had somehow ended up on a on a stage singing, hanging around with Countie Gross at a show. and And so I didn't realize my guitar player, Dan, at the time with was friendly with Emmy. And Emmy was like, oh, I'd love to come down and track. I like the songs. And and so like the next day, there's Emmer Gluck with a truck full of guitars and amps.
00:06:45
Speaker
ah I was like, all right. and and what city What city was that in? This was in LA. I was living in LA. So um I was like, ah yeah, that's great. and And that's sort of the start of our friendship. um ah That process was was really like a masterclass. and in record making, for me, um who'd always been sort of like, how do you do that? Like, you know, I need someone to give me money to make a record, you know, like whatever. But like, Emerglut just came down and like, you know, a couple passes on each song and had it. And just, I just learned a lot from him um about catching that spark and and um letting great people do what they do and just, you know,
00:07:35
Speaker
being grateful for it. and ah So just to go back to the one thing just to from my own that so all of the stars and curses LP was written after your you know your hospital stay right or or can't there were some of that written before?
Songwriting as Therapy
00:07:51
Speaker
i i I had some of the like the music just and I couldn't finish I was just really at this terrible I was at a I was at a low ah you I was going through a low time um and then I got sick and then um you know that's like a just it was just a ah ah complete you know watershed moment in my life, but obviously, but i i start i did I couldn't do anything. So I was i would come home and you know I was doing chemo and um i i i couldn't you know all I could do on days where I was feeling good was you know just sort of sit there with a guitar and like try to like um hammer away. But but um
00:08:40
Speaker
I don't know something that that period for me served as a catalyst and and um in my songwriting and um I got lucky things started to sort of like show up lyrical ideas and and and um and I was able to finish a bunch of songs which which I I had been chasing these record deals and all you hear when you're chasing record deals is that's not a hit like that's not a hit and and um if you want to like ruin a writer's confidence just tell them tell them that's good but not good enough, but I i can't tell you why. like So I finally quit chasing that. And I was like, well, I like it. And you know I don't know if it's going to be a hit, but it's going to be on my record. like i'm and to man This is the song. i you know So um it's it's it was that was a deep sort of thing for me to figure out. And um it was very liberating. And I was able to get a bunch of songs written. And then I finished like maybe half that record after.
00:09:40
Speaker
half of it, maybe I wrote while I was in treatment and the other half, like the first three months out, I was like, you know, just completely out of my mind with anxiety about like, how do you restart life after this? And yeah so I just sat in a room and was like, well, I can I just can put all my anxiety into like writing these songs. And that worked. I thank God. So And then I was like, well, I guess I'll make a record because the songs are there and I think they're good. like i you know um And so i um I started making this record and and um and and then yeah, I met Emmer Gluck and he sort of...
00:10:18
Speaker
I think the phrase he used was, i'm I would like to insert myself into that process. Oh, I love that. He seems like yeah a pretty funny guy. yeah Were you a fan of the band before meeting him or Clock? Was it so? Yeah, I was. I mean, I mean, who doesn't remember? Like I was in music school. I was at Berkeley College of Music um ah when when everyone was like doing their year abroad or whatever they were doing in college. um I was like,
00:10:48
Speaker
I don't want to go to the Italy. I want to go to music school. So I don't know. like i just was like i I was the only one. I i don't know. i I was like, I better start figuring this out if I want to do it. So I was in bands and stuff. But I was like, I need to get more serious about like understand like writing and and playing. And I was at Berkeley. And and Mr. Jones was everywhere. and and And then that record just kind of my brother really liked it. And and I kind of. um you know, I'd been copping my records from him my whole life. So um i I was listening and there were a few songs on it that just like blew me away. I think Omaha really just like got me and, and that you know, there were just a few songs littered through that record that were really, I was like, what is going on here? like These are really great. um and i and i like And I liked it. I mean, I was listening to a lot of, you know, that was like a weird sort of like,
00:11:48
Speaker
You'd hear like on the radio, maybe you'd hear Counting Crows and then Weezer. And then, you know, like just like there it was all over the place. And and then Liz Fair and then and then maybe Jeff Buckley you would, that you know, like it was all, there was a lot of good music happening. um And it was, um I don't know, it was just, it was having a moment, I guess. but Yeah, I did like them and i and then I um went on, sorry, I'm rambling, so just tell me to show that. But say that post grunge was like a weirdly open and interesting period of music, you know what I mean? That that weird stretch right there where you're like like, yeah, Counting Crow's Weezer, oh wait, that first couple of Oasis records are in there. Yeah, Oasis. Yeah, but but did that so did it did did that stick with you though, that those records? are did you like sort i They did. i um But then and then, well,
Connection with Counting Crows
00:12:38
Speaker
here's what happened. so
00:12:39
Speaker
um After I graduated from college, i um my brother was is a filmmaker, and he was making a movie. And um he needed some songs. I met my now wife on his movie, which is, I don't know, like classic Hollywood bananas. But she's rad, and I'm very lucky. so ah But he was making a movie on Nantucket, because he and I used to drive taxis in the summer. That was our job there.
00:13:04
Speaker
um and he needed some songs written and and he, and he um my wife ever, is best friends with Meredith Salinger who I think dated Adam him at one point or their friends. And so she ever reached out to Meredith who reached out to Adam and Adam was like, yeah, well, we'll do some songs for for that movie. And um the movie never came out. Just long other other podcast episode about that. But yeah do you know that I just I saw that briefly when researching a little bit about you. And i that's the first I heard about that. Like I knew that Adam, you know, was writing songs for a playwright and stuff that
00:13:42
Speaker
Do those songs that for your movie, would like were they were they recorded or are they like, is there something or are these songs written but never played or? I don't really know what happened. I thought hanging around was one of them, but I could be wrong because that ended up being in the movie. But you'd have to ask Adam about that. And and there was another one, like a really great song. And I can't remember what it is because it's in the movie that is in like litigation and sits in a on a shelf in a warehouse in Long Island. So like the movies not you know so it's a long story. but but um So Matt flew to Chicago, my brother Matt, flew to Chicago when he was doing the edit to meet up with Counting Crows, who had a couple of days off there. And they went in, and Adam had written these songs, and they tracked. And and um and and then I was spending more time in LA because my wife lived here.
00:14:35
Speaker
um and So I met Adam a few times. This must be like 99, 2000. And he was super sweet and nice. And I was like trying to figure out how to like get my first record, that record we talked about, Homesick, to go. And he was nice enough to like listen to it and give me some thoughts. and and um
00:14:57
Speaker
and and And then that that that record came out with the one before Hard Candy. um this doesn't love This Desert Life. This Desert Life. And that's the one with Mrs. Potter's Lullaby, right? That record blew the doors off my mind. I was just like, because I was like really trying to do my thing with my band and at the time. And we were touring. And we were like, what's our comp? Because in all the labels were like, well, who who do you sound like? And I was like, yes, we sort of. And like people would be like, you sort of remind me of Counting Crows a little bit. and like Um, and I heard that and I was like, yeah, but the song not even counting crows is like next level. And like, I just remember Mrs. Potter's lullaby just got into my brain and wouldn't for like three months. And, and I was just like, this is a great record. And, and, uh, and, um, I think that's really where I was like, this band is really.
00:15:47
Speaker
Really good. I mean, I always knew that, but I was just like, that reference caught me in a different way. Yeah, sometimes when you have that accumulation, too, that you're like, it's not just the one album wonder kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So by the way, for the Crows franchise, so they know, we were talking about Stars and Curses 2008, but you had a couple other LPs, and the next one, which I think is the next one, French Exit, that's the one with Hospital on it. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. I believe. And then you also did a soundtrack. Was that for one of your brother's movies, man? Yeah.
00:16:16
Speaker
Well, when I got finished with, I mean, I'm sorry, I'm jumping all over the place. yeah When I got cancer, I sort of like came out the other side and and made this record. And I was also like, well, I'm, I'd had, I'd had, um I wanted to get into composing. So I, I, um I started sort of hustling in that lane, too, just because I knew that I wanted to be making music. um But I need to find a way to do it that involved, like being at home, because I was, I'm like, I wasn't I wasn't thinking about touring. I was just married and trying to like, you know, I wanted a little more um control over my ah situation, I guess, in life then then I might get if I was also getting too old to be like, you know, I wasn't going to do like the lonely man
00:16:58
Speaker
get in your car and play, you know, it's just, I was like, no, i it's not for me at this point. I was in my thirties. I was like, I can't, we want to start family. So I got into composing and um yeah, I did a couple of things. I knew people who were making movies and then my brother gave me a huge opportunity on his feature, his next feature, which was called The Man Who Knew Infinity with ah Jeremy Irons and Dev Patel. um And um And then, yeah, I mean, I so composing is is sort of my bread and butter. But I mean, I'm still making records. I'm i'm actually going to be playing shows with um playing a show ah for the first time in like a year and a half with Emma Gluck and on the 11th of February. ah youre So where where where where where is that? That'll be at Hotel Cafe here in l LA, which has sort of been like my home court for
00:17:52
Speaker
for my time out here. i look up I'll look at my schedule. Oh, yeah. I might have to head down for that. Oh, please do. Let me know. um but So imer glut kind of so in but that's it's a record before Hospital, right? Immerglut kind of inserts himself. I asked you guys, you said he was like kind of very influential in sort of like making records. Like any kind of big things that you kind of took from him, like what was his other than like kind of moving kind of quickly, I think you said, like what kind of like what were his the things that he influenced you on and in terms of making records?
00:18:21
Speaker
um Well, I'll say that like the moving quickly thing was big. like The magic happens in the first few takes. And I remember trying to like get him to play some part on something. And he was like, I don't know. And I don't know if he was just like he couldn't get his head around it or he just didn't want to do it. And I was like, yeah, I'm not pushing.
00:18:43
Speaker
like okay you know he he Everything he played on that is like, I mean it was such an eye-opening experience because like I was just like oh This is what happens when like someone who's truly great at what they do walks in the room They just you don't have to say anything. You don't have to coax anything out of anybody. It just they know what to do and They do it and and that was the big takeaway that like that's kind of what record making should be like um and I was like so so
00:19:15
Speaker
you know, for me, that was huge, because I'd always been trying to like get something out of someone. And and that's not to take anything away from anyone I ever made records with. It was sort of like, I should have been letting them do their thing. And, you know, but like, um, emerg lock was the first time I remember like someone coming in doing their thing. And I was like, that's better than what I could have ever imagined it would be like, you know, um, and, and it was just sort of a, a lesson in like, surround yourself with those dudes, like, like, if you're in the record making, it's like, get guys who come in and just get it. Like, you don't have to lose a day trying to like, like, you know, there is something to record making where it's like, either you get it intuitively, or or you don't, and you got to like, you know,
00:20:00
Speaker
that yeah You know, that's that that's just the brutal truth. and chris Chris, I said something to him in the pre-interview, and I said that we've had a number of guests on the show, right? Jesse Eisenberg, James Campion, but a field report. And um and then I'm missing oh David Lowry. And all of them, they're great friends with Emmy.
00:20:21
Speaker
Right. And then and then out of right. ja like Oh, I talked to everybody and I said Adam um out of out of the band. He's talked about a number of times. His best friend is in me. So every like I give any credit for like putting all that energy into his friends and his relationships. Like he's obviously a very giving and engaging person and the people he cares about. And obviously he's obsessed with music, too. That's part of it. Well, he's obsessed with music for sure. And he's also a super like just kind dude and And, you know, I was saying to you, his big trick is that he makes us think, like, we're all his best friend. And he ah he obviously has energy too, because I even saw some interview not too long ago from him, I want to say maybe seven years ago or something, and he was still like, oh, it's in Sydney. ah This is my favorite place to be at five in the morning and stuff. And I was like, he's not he wasn't 21 at the time, you know. yeah yeah He's like that. Like, that's his thing is like, he's got to be making music and yeah and he loves it. And it whether it's
00:21:20
Speaker
you know He's got ah Jesse Mallon or Brother Sal or James Maddock or who or whoever whoever it is. like he's he's got like He really wants to be playing with whoever he can on any given night. like That's his thing. And I give him a lot of credit for like you know getting out and like reinventing himself a million different ways. in And and like lifting up a lot of people who don't, you know I mean,
00:21:49
Speaker
i i mean i wouldn this The signal boost his interest gave me was next level. i mean i you know like For a lot of people who are sort of toiling under the radar, to have someone who's great and nice take notice of you and make you feel like what you're doing is worthwhile in a business full of people who you know don't return phone calls. ever perfect you know It's just like, what is happening here? like so Yeah, that that's fantastic. yeah so He does a great job of that.
Personal Story Behind 'Hospital'
00:22:20
Speaker
So let's let's get into the song hospital itself. ah Talk about, um yeah, just just anything you want to preface about writing it or the lyrics or what it means. i'm Some artists say, hey, you can figure out you know yourself what it means, but but you might want to add, this is your chance to tell some fans about the song itself.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah, i I don't know. i don't really um i mean I know what the song's about. so i don't i don't i don't i mean Sometimes it's nice to say that, I guess, but um that you know you it means different things to different people. But like for me, I wrote that when not about my own illness that I was watching.
00:22:52
Speaker
um my mom was going through um breast cancer stuff. And it was sort of about, it was about that actually. And it was after my treatment. And um it was just sort of like a way of me comparing notes with, I guess, my and her head spaces about how to deal with treatment. um So I kind of wrote it about that. um And I don't know how, ah immerlu and so we were in the process of making French Exit, and I think we had a rough demo where I sort of, um I had sort of, you know, when you're writing and you're just trying to find
00:23:37
Speaker
lyrics that sort of ah fit the the melody um and the spacing and the and the the phrasing of the line. I think i think there was there was some stuff I was working on, like some of the words were coming through, but some weren't. and and i think that um So I think that Adam got from Emmy sort of a working demo of that song. And I think Adam liked what he was hearing. There was a version that was that was finished, but not what not what it was going to be on my record. But I think Adam really fell in love with that version and it and spoke to him. And so he decided that that was something for them to do. um And where lyric the two sets of lyrics are different. Like you're the release version of your song and the version on on Underwater Sunshine are essentially the same, but have quite different lyrics. And so I'm guessing Adam's the version of from the Crows is that demo version and lyrically is
00:24:35
Speaker
Did they, did he change anything there or is it based on those lyrics or no those your demo version? They were finished lyrics. They just weren't, I knew that they weren't right for what I was, my purposes. Like they were, they were where I was at in the process and, and I knew that they were going to get tweaked again. But in that time between me getting a chance to do it, it had gotten introduced to Adam. And and so they ran with that version.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, well, and also maybe just maybe for his purposes, it just kind of, yeah, it was that's kind of an interesting that, it you know, it's for two different purposes, two different sets of lyrics and two different like impacts and ways, versions of the song out in the world, you know, I mean, it it could have just stayed with Oh, do you hear there's a little thunder in the background if you're making up on finally getting some rain in LA. But yeah, ah you know, it it spoke to him and I will, you know, I was just um I was thrilled about it. I was just, you know. ah and and that helps And that helps explain what what I think I'm sure is the only one on the record. I think the official release of his cover was 2012, and your official release, at least of the video, was 2013. Yeah. But that would explain, right? Because usually they some of the songs on that album, they're covering songs from the 60s, and then your song they're covering a song that hadn't been released yet. Yeah. yeah yeah
00:25:50
Speaker
I mean the impact was there it just was like it just it ended up getting sort of a rewrite on my part and and i had already begun that rewrite but i wasn't it i hadn't recorded it yet and they had already run with that demo so i you know that say lovey but um i was super super thrilled that it resonated with them and i absolutely love their version of it, because it's just it's them, but it's them different. And I don't know. I don't I love the way that they took it. So, Chris, did you hear their version before it before um you completed yours or was it sort of parallel? No, I don't think I did. I don't think. i I don't think I heard their version until the record was out. I don't think I ever got to hear their working mix of it. So. And you were done with yours when when by the time
00:26:38
Speaker
I think so, and we must have been. um The record making process for me and for them is quite different. Mine was dragging on and dragging on. you know we Me and the producer um both had young kids and we would just get into the studio as either one of us could get sprung from changing diapers. And Counting Rose goes in like a proper um outfit and like takes over a studio for X amount of time, I guess, and and does their thing. But like, you know, ah my my ah my my recording process is pretty piecemeal.
00:27:13
Speaker
Chris, for those who, and obviously I'm gonna, well, we'll link the video in the bio. We, again, tell you, please go to ah Kobe Brown's YouTube page. We'll link to that too. And actually I'm getting together, Chris, I told you, I'm almost done. By the time this got released, I'm gonna make a YouTube playlist of all the originals that are covered from Underwater or Sunshine. I don't think anybody's made that playlist yet. um Yeah, so I think that's helpful for Crows fans. And that's what, by the way, that's one of the reasons Adam put that list together, is he wanted people to go to the source material yeah for all those. um So, Chris, did you want it for the fans? How would you describe the differences of the two? Because there really are stark differences in the in the
00:27:56
Speaker
recording, you know, Kobe's, I guess, a little more, I don't know, muted. I can't even describe it. Are you able to? I think the biggest differences I think are in ah the drums and the lead guitar. There's a sort of like jagged quality to the crows version that I i think whereas Kobe's version kind of like flows. It's more of a flow and and and they're kind of intentionally maybe sort of like breaking things. And so it's a very different vibe of the two songs. Even again, they're the same song, but you get a very different energy from them, yeah um which is, again, kind of interesting. I think it's, again, the different things that they relate to and the different ways you would connect with them, but they're they're kind of separate because of that. a lot of it's in um I think a lot of it's in the drums, the way Jim is playing, um and kind of the lead guitar that Vickery is playing is very, there's a sort of, I think, a jagged quality to it, if that makes sense.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah, Adam sings kind of hard, if that makes sense. Almost how he sings like 1492 in some of the, at least in my sense, that's a harder, where Coby's, I don't know, I'd like it, it's, I don't know, muted is the best way to say it, at least in my mind, or so a little so more subdued, um but still, I don't know, it gets different vibes, but I love both of them.
00:29:11
Speaker
I love that sort of like, that they took it, it has an abrasive quality, like the claw line and and even Adam's delivery is sort of stark. And ours is a little more sort of like, I don't know, like a dream pop. Yeah, exactly. It was a little dream poppy, which I was kind of surprised when I, first the first time I went back and heard ah your version. yeah It's not too much dream pop, but it has that over it. You're absolutely right. It sort of got a sheen on it of the delay and, you know,
00:29:40
Speaker
I love that stuff. yes But I love the way that they played it. I mean, I'm so honored that they did it. And and i and seeing them do it live is just a blast every time. I'll never get sick of that. so yeah the kind the co Again, if you're looking on YouTube, the Codfish Barn Show is probably one of the best recordings of them doing it live. um do you Chris, maybe this is a good time. I just want to, because when are we ever going to do this again, that maybe just quickly talk about, I won't read every word about,
00:30:09
Speaker
Adam's liner notes for the show ah songs and just because so because there's a couple interesting things. The number one most interesting thing is that Millard plays the acoustic guitar that you hear the whole time. It's it's it's not Emmy and it's not a day. And he's on bass. Exactly. And interestingt is on on your version, what does he play?
00:30:33
Speaker
He plays some guitars, and he plays the piano, I think. ah there's like a they kids See, we we would have him. He would come in and be like, oh, let's do it. And there was a um ah great old synth that was in like the corner, and he played this synth line on it. So um he was just jumping around doing whatever was sort of striking his fancy. And, you know, I was like, have at it, man. like but definiteing Between the two versions, there's like a whole Emmy band in there. yeah yeah it's a If we can just get him to play a little bit of drums, we can just hit the a full Emmy version. of yeah Which I'm sure you would do.
00:31:19
Speaker
But yeah, no, he's great like that. I forgot that he played the bass on that track, on that, that's him, on the cat. Yeah, Adam starts the liner notes by saying, Emery said, I am playing bass on this one. So he came in with his assertion. That's him. The other interesting thing, like you said, there's a little piano at the end of your version. And even though they have Charlie, one of the best piano players, he does a string composition, which I don't really hear, but he doesn't play piano.
00:31:45
Speaker
on that. I mean, I guess he plays the string composition probably on the keyboard, I guess, but he doesn't do his traditional ah piano on that. And then, ah yeah, Dave, for those into Dave, what I do, he does a little more on that song than usual. That's all I can say that he has some he does kind of an interesting background thing and then also he hits some kind of harder parts that kind of reminded me of the recovering the satellite days. Yeah. So, ah yeah, and then it just talks about, now you know, how he is friends with you. But you know, it's so funny this, Chris, now we've seen it every other way. People call him Imer, right? Imer Gluck. What's the other one we hear? emy emmer There was another one that Eisenberg said, I can't remember.
00:32:24
Speaker
and then enable so david call him david david And then in this one, and I think it's probably a joke, um Adam references um him as David Arthur. em um evermer glu Like he says the whole thing out. And I'm guessing he does that, you know, to try to be a little tongue in cheek there. Yeah. So yeah, but one of the things and I guess it's worth mentioning here um was you mentioned about his ah vocals.
Adam Duritz's Connection to 'Hospital'
00:32:47
Speaker
Now he doesn't talk about kind of the louder or abrasive that I caught, but that he you know, he, you know, talking about what it meant to him, he was dealing with his own issues with hospitals and medication. And he's been a little more open with that now. And I know you briefly mentioned on some podcasts years ago, this was like a part where he actually specifically says it. And I don't think a lot of people caught this when he was maybe not mentioning it in too many interviews. um And he said, I always dug Kobe's writing, but hospital floored me.
00:33:18
Speaker
When I heard it and when we recorded it as well, I was in the worst part of seven months of horrific drug withdrawals. As I weaned myself off a number of prescription psychiatric meds, um they basically say I had no drug problem, but it was just some medications were prescribed to me that the docs no longer wanted me to take. And then he talks about how he thinks some of his withdrawals basically changed the vocal of that song, maybe between the emotion of thinking about hospitals and drugs, and then the physical side effects. And he said, I was insanely focused when I did the song and did some of the best arrangements of my life. bla bla Okay, but you can hear me physically and vibrating around the room, especially on this song. And these and the ah precise line, there's some pills that I shouldn't take. So yeah,
00:34:09
Speaker
Deep so pretty deep stuff that you don't see in all his liner notes Yeah, he he um he does have like a really like intensity about his delivery. Is this rain too loud? Can you hear this fine? it's Yeah, we can hear it, but it's fine. Adams delivery is intense there and I um i you know, I it's I'm that he responded that way to this song and that it spoke to him. um And that maybe it helped him is really nice to think um and and gave him something to wrap himself around in a tough time, which is sort of the job of music. That's why you put things out to begin with. so
00:34:48
Speaker
And it has a it's funny his last line is on it because he's talking about the song is weird his arrangement and He said hopefully there's no film but there actually is a half of the song is recorded when they recorded it half of that is on YouTube i just saw like recording video yeah Yeah, yeah, I just saw that for the first time like three weeks ago I couldn't believe it. I'd never seen it and I was like, this is what oh my god. This is amazing. So so yeah but Yeah, and you could see it when he put when he performs it live he kind of there there is a bit of sort of hit him sort of like a emoting physically and sort of showing that off and and the way he moves kind of holding himself together. um That does kind of like bring that through, I think of of sort of like what he was feeling there. And I'm with him, you can hear it, right? That certain, it I think it it makes sense of the jaggedness. Also kind of hearing us even just a little bit about what your composition was, the two different perspectives of it sort of make the two different versions sort of work, that Adam is sort of
00:35:42
Speaker
like it's like himself kind of shaking and you're sort of kind of speaking to someone else and maybe trying to comfort them in a certain way or or to yourself a little bit too but again different the different contexts sort of make the two versions sort of make sense to me that that Adam's an often a different place than you were but that the again they're sort of kind of coming together in the middle. Well, I think that's the beauty of it is to like of music is, it you know, it it I mean, I know what it's about for me. and And for him, it's about that. And it's about, you know, and I just I do love that when a song hits one person one way um and another another. and it And it can be that even same lyrics or different lyrics. I mean, like, I think a lot of the lyrics actually are
00:36:30
Speaker
There's a few lines that are different, but I just think that whatever it is you wrap yourself around in a song um is going to be different from what someone else does. um and And the takeaways can be like diametrically opposite, but it's all from that one song. And I'm really grateful to have written something that maybe does did that for him well or anyone.
00:36:58
Speaker
and also you i think the sorry the the like the I think it's actually a very universal song. Even if you're not spending a lot of time in the hospitals, I think this, especially the sections about, I call it math or something, you know, but the X is all, you know, the all that stuff. I was just about to say that. That was the best use of algebra in a song ever. Firstly, incredible. Yeah, sorry. Really? No, actually. I took it three times in high school. and called That's where I had to put it to you somewhere.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's like it's like creative and I like thinking creative and unique, and it but it slips right in. It it wasn't too forced. It it fit it really well. So i actually had that was my next note, Chris. I actually wanted to comment about that. Well, it's again it's very it's a very universal thing, right? The idea that you don't need to, if you're someone who thinks about things a lot and tries to to solve them, that maybe you cannot solve this. Whatever situation you're in, it's not a math problem and there's not there's not X equals Y, it's, it's just going to be what it is. It might not add up to to what you want it to. And I certain when I first heard that song in 2012, that's, what that's certainly what I connected to. I wasn't, I wasn't spending a lot of time in hospitals at that point. I have unfortunately a couple of times since, but, um, or, you know, the, that, I think that is, it's like a really kind of like a beautiful thing. And to your point, Eric, it's a very, very unique sort of
00:38:17
Speaker
take on things. i have Again, I haven't seen anything else that really kind of gets at things in that way. yeah And as someone who who kind of liked algebra, I was you know i liked it. So yeah, it was I was like, oh my God. I liked it too. i just was that's That's great. I just couldn't, I just, I don't know. It just kept coming up like as a requirement. I was like, I did this really well in like eighth grade. Why do I have to do it my senior spring of college to get out of here? like Anyway, that's ah oh that the educational system of not recognizing what you had done in eighth grade. You're like, I understood the sleep grade. Why don't you give me credit for the course I took in eighth grade? I got an A in eighth grade. Like, you know, now I'm getting a C minus my senior year of college. Anyway.
00:39:07
Speaker
It's a whole lot cause you i'm trying to write songs you hadn't because you're you're probably trying to write songs. You're like, I don't want to do this algebra right now. Oh, you know, once years later, you're like, Aha, I finally, it's all kind of coming together. coming together Now I'm watching my daughter do it. And I'm like, how's it going for you? she can Can you remind me both of you that could be like, after this, have you either like played one-off shows or did many tours with the crows? or No, no. i um okay so i I've never done any touring with with the crows. i've played I play shows with... So my my my arc as a music maker, I'm always writing songs and trying to record, but like
00:39:52
Speaker
You know, I've gotten into film scoring, and and i i I do that. And um I play shows, or I was playing shows as I could. Like, so i I've got, you know, Emmer Bloch when he's around, I've got, um um you know, the great bass player, Johnny Flower, amazing drummer, Michael Jerome. But these guys are like, they're all out with other people. And for me to play shows, like, I want those guys. Like, so I kind of have, I'm at the mercy of their schedule.
00:40:21
Speaker
what's What's the best way for people to like, what do you just announce your shows at one off or do you? Yeah, I kind of do. um I, you know, I put it on social media and I just booked these shows.
00:40:32
Speaker
um I have two shows in February, I stopped playing for like a year and a half just because I was, I was like, you know what, it's just, it's, it's a lot of work. If you're doing it as a one off and um right. And I'm busy with other stuff but i I realized like I really want to start playing specifically the songs from Stars and Curses.
00:40:53
Speaker
um um Again, so I just found out Emma Gluck is going to be in town and and that's generally my thinking. Oh, is Amy here? Okay. Well, let's see if everyone else is here. And um so it's February 11th. We'll do a show with that band. and And then the 27th, I'm going to play the songs from Stars and Curses um solo, which is, um would just be me and a guitar. And if I get like really courageous or harmonica, but we'll see.
00:41:24
Speaker
Fantastic. For those also, I just quickly mentioned some of your other songs that I saw, I think an interesting sometimes is to go, you know what what are your most popular videos on on YouTube? I did see the most popular one was a song, Cannonball, and what Patton Oswalt is in the video or something like that? oh Yeah. yeah yeah that's so like guess said that that ah you know like if you're If you're doing it at a like a less than you know If you're doing it at an underratedar under the radar level, you got gotta it's it's been really a challenge to figure out how do I release music and how do I catch attention. It doesn't make sense to me, in my opinion, to put records out because you're taking one swing with 10 songs as opposed to 10 swings with 10 different songs. It's not how I would like to do it. I would rather put records out. but like
00:42:14
Speaker
If I don't have a budget to like let you know I put a record out my best use of my work is to like okay put the song out try to put a video out if I have a good idea and someone who can help me. Make a great video um yeah and so that's that was my thinking for a while so.
00:42:31
Speaker
um I had cannonball and i and my wife's best friend is Meredith Salinger and and Meredith had married Patton and Patton was gracious enough to come be in that video.
00:42:44
Speaker
um and And i had friends who i have I have a great friend, Matt Lutweiler, who's a filmmaker. who i He spends a lot of time in Rwanda now, but when he's here, I always try to browbeat him into um making a video for me. So that's how that happened. I had Matt, I had friends who were production designers, and and we were able to like you know make that cannonball video for for relatively cheap um And and everyone was just great and gave their time and energy into doing it and and we got a great video I love that video and and um, but that's sort of what it's been about like if you're yeah, you know, it's just like Really calculated hits and spends so that makes sense and there's some neat videos but for for the fans again Hospital doesn't just have the audio recording hospital. There is a video for hospital. It's a really cool video
00:43:34
Speaker
ah There's a, I actually love this as an original idea. There's a holiday song called Merry January. I love that there's like a January theme song instead of focusing on merry Thanksgiving and Christmas.
00:43:47
Speaker
The other song, you know, ah I just wanted to highlight, I mean, there is something that caught my attention. I lived in Japan, so the Tokyo song was interesting. But i I actually think the best song on there, um yeah maybe besides Hospital, I love the Come On, It's Time to Go. And Emmy is in that video as well. Yeah, wass that one. Yeah, I don't know how that song would would have done or would do so well. and It reminds me of like Australian rock. Like, I don't know if you know temper trap at all. But it reminds me of something that they would play. ah It's a great song. Anyway, come on, it's time to go. And the other one that caught my attention was it lived to tell a story I got. ah it's it's it's It's a little bit different than your other ones. I got a little bit like almost Elton John Billy Joel vibes from it. Yeah, it's not you on a piano. It's kind of that
00:44:32
Speaker
feel? I don't know how you feel about those analysis. but um i' i I mean, listen, Billy Joel and Elton John are two of the greatest songwriters to walk the planet. um That's a high phrase. Thank you. so But that's what like, you know, I had that song and Amy just that's one of those songs where Amy just walked in and like, you know, that line, she just fell out of them, you know, it was like amazing. I think our other guitar player had been playing it and then Amy came in and played it down in a way that was just like next level. I can't remember, but yeah, thank you. Thank you for checking it out. um I guess the last thing for me, Chris, you might have some things I did want. Since Coby's here, you can... Oh, yeah, please. I'll just drop this in that you can find videos, some live videos of hospitals as well with... There's one I think in Rockwood with Amy.
00:45:24
Speaker
and Michael Jerome as well, I think is the is the drummer. um And then you guys had like a garden session like that in like Adam's apartment at one point, I think maybe like 2013. I never did a session at Adam's apartment, but um i did i did a um I did a session with Ahoud in his apartment. Oh, okay, maybe it's there, okay.
00:45:50
Speaker
And we ran through it's definitely called a garden session, but to be yeah maybe that's maybe that's it. amazing problems i've got No, I have I've, I've, I the we did that before before the show at Rockwood we just went and a hood came over and filmed us going through the setlist basically. ah And, um and we just played everything down. um but Yeah, there's videos um of me and Emmer doing stuff um probably on my YouTube channel. or or um ah But yeah, yeah you know it's ah we'll try to get some video from this show coming up. We'll see how that goes. But you know it's one of the great blessings of my musical, of not just my musical life, of of my life to you know call him a friend and and to have him
00:46:37
Speaker
you know make music with me. it's just that's That guy reaffirmed my faith in in music and and in pursuing it at a time when you know i was I was ready to walk away. So I'm very grateful to him for that. And that's a good segue into what's going to be my last question, which or at least point, which is about your, um you know you can briefly ah talk about the book you're writing and that it will be released I'm guessing this year, so given what you're saying I'm guessing he's going to be in the book, right, that this that he had this influence or at least maybe not mentioning his name maybe mentioning about music.
Kobe's Book on Cancer Journey and Music
00:47:12
Speaker
yeah know he's been there um
00:47:14
Speaker
i I talk about how we met and and the reporting process for Stars and Curses, but the book is is a work in progress. i mean i haven't finished i it's you know um so I do a lot of composing and i and you know this town went on strike, this town had COVID hit it, then and And then work just dried up. So I had like a year and thank God I had done like I'd stack some projects and and I was alright, but and my wife was working and um but I spent the last year finishing that book and taking it as far as I could go. It's called your luck is going to change and it's about um my getting sick. um And then how that.
00:47:54
Speaker
sort of changed and how that catalyzed my songwriting and the record stars and curses that came out of it is the is sort of how that book culminates but um um that's what i've been working on i'm i'm shopping it around now i'm trying to find um you know it's it's it's it's a whole thing trying to like it's like cracking a whole other field it's like oh i'm gonna be talking for a year here like now i gotta figure out like how to like bring that to market. But i' I'm working on that. And we'll see, you know, I've got to find some believers who who love it and want to help me put it out. But um I'm super proud of it. and And I'm trying to basically turn stars and curses into
00:48:36
Speaker
um my My foray back into playing will be sort of telling stories about those songs as ah as a set of of music, like ah like a one-man show kind of thing, that hopefully will end up involving um the band too. um But, you know, these are my pipe dreams for the future when I think about playing music and like that that that experience for me is the defining experience of my life um and and the things that, the insights that you gain going through a time like that. um I just feel like you have a responsibility if you can to share them um and
00:49:18
Speaker
And that's sort of what I was hoping to do with it, is that you know when I got sick, i ah there weren' there weren't a lot of books about it that um my brother gave me a copy of Lance Armstrong's book. And I know a lot of people hate Lance Armstrong. But as I say in the book, if you really hate him, you must not know anyone who had cancer. Because that guy did a lot of good for people who um were struggling with the cancer diagnosis. um So I was so grateful to have that book at a time when life was impossible. And and I thought, you know, i I would like to contribute my story and see if it's helpful to anyone. um and And so I'm going to be sort of turning turning the book and that record into a one-man show hopefully over the course of the next year, um hopefully to
00:50:07
Speaker
um go along with um the release of the book but we'll have you know all that will be you know speculative but that that's my that's my intent so well well thank you so much chris do you have a final question no i'm saying that sounds good because it's uh it's very interested to read the book um in part because it's it's such it's an interesting combination of two things right it sounds like of of again you're you're a bit of your story and then also though you know and there aren't a lot of great writing about I think making records that aren't, you know, the big records from the seventies, you know, there's, you know, a good, I'm sure wonderful books about like Fleetwood Mac rumors or whatever, but like, you know, there's just not, there're like a, a position I really enjoy, Will Shaft from Aquifer River has been doing like a podcast series on his Patreon about like, Hey, like the minutia and just the experience of making some of these records in the 2000s during that time, that scene.
00:51:03
Speaker
And it's fascinating. And so just the idea of also both like the ah process of then going like, okay, how do I turn this into a record? How do I sort of transition that? How do I actually make it happen is something i am I'd be very interested to read about. So ah yeah, it sounds like an amazing, it sounds like the the kind of book that anyone who's listening to this podcast would probably be very excited to hold a copy of. So. Well finished Ross, I appreciate you saying that. But yeah, that'd be amazing. and um Yeah, I think that, you know, the record-making process, if you're not working at a level that's elite, is is interesting. And there are great records getting made, not to say mine, to some great record, but like, yeah, there are there are things out there that you haven't heard of that will knock your socks off. And and and um it is interesting. The stories that go into making records are interesting, for sure. yeah
00:51:51
Speaker
but Well, thanks so much, Covey, for sharing about your personal journey, some of your personal stories, and also your connection to The Counting Crows and their history and your relationship with Emmy and your contribution to the Underwater Sunshine record and and a great song, Hospital. So thanks so much. Thank you for having me, you guys. It's been a blast.