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E42: Amy Scott (Crows' Documentary Director) Interview
3 Plays1 minute ago
Amy Scott is the Director of the Counting Crows documentary "Have You Seen Me Lately", released on December 18, 2025 (HBO Max) and produced by Bill Simmons. It focuses on the making of Recovering the Satellites and Adam's struggles with newfound fame during that time period.
Join us as we ask Amy about the filming process, her history with the Crows, her creative choices, Bryson's tour scrapbook, and how talented/charming all the band members are.
Amy's Website:
https://www.amyelizabethscott.com/
From Warner Bros
Email Us:
SullivanStreetPC@protonmail.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Counting Crows Documentary
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome to Sullivan Street. And wow, a special another special time, Chris. We're in the middle of, I can't help myself, a long December. And it's been a it's pretty pretty cool couple of years for Counting Crows fans. We had the unauthorized biography come out with Jeff Harkness, Rain King. We have an authorized biography in the works with James Campion and Adam.
00:00:41
Speaker
ah We have our podcast that started two and a half years ago. We have, and but this is it. So now, oh, and of course the new new album and to album all sorts of fun stuff. Yeah, the new album, first in 10 years. And now we have the first official that I know of, Counting Crows film documentary coming out December 18th, probably out by the time you hear this on HBO Films. And that was by executive producer Bill Simmons, directed by Amy Scott as part of the HBO original Music Box series, Counting Crows, Have You Seen
Meet Amy Scott: The Director's Perspective
00:01:13
Speaker
Me Lately? And today on the show, Chris, we're going to be interviewing Amy.
00:01:17
Speaker
So okay yeah, Amy, thank you for thank you thank you for joining us on the podcast. We are so thrilled to have you and and what ah what a unique time. um The only housekeeping I want to do before we start asking a couple of questions about the ah making of this is um for those that either haven't had a chance to to read it or for those maybe listening to this a couple of years from now who, oh, I didn't know about this. I'll do a very quick synopsis of the film and a very quick bio on yourself. So Cannon Crews, have you seen me lately?
Counting Crows: Debut and Rise to Fame
00:01:49
Speaker
Premiered this year. By the way, chris i already Chris has watched it twice. I have not watched it at all. so we get both perspectives. um And premiered a couple months ago at Tribeca. So catapulted into overnight, not sure if that's a pun or not, but catapulted into overnight fame by their massively successful debut album, San Francisco indie rock band, Counting Crows, and their introspective frontman, Adam Duritz, were suddenly the biggest rock stars in the world, defiantly facing whatever came next. Counting Crudes Have You Seen Me Lately captures this pivotal crossroads through revealing interviews and evocative 1990s archival footage to craft a rare story of artistic integrity in the spotlight directed by Amy Scott. And just to emphasize, from what I understand, this really focuses on that time between, of course, we they talk about before and after, but the time between August and selling millions and becoming a worldwide sensation. and recording Recovering the Satellites so and dealing with some of Adam's emotional challenges and creative pressures. And for those that don't know, this is why this week, and Amy, if you didn't know that, they were released a bunch of Recovering the Satellites merchandise in their store yeah to coincide with this. And just... ah
00:02:57
Speaker
In case Amy doesn't do it, Amy is a filmmaker based in l L.A., born and raised in Oklahoma, and spent formative years in Chicago.
Amy Scott's Journey to Music Documentaries
00:03:05
Speaker
And to be very clear, this is not her first foray into music documentaries. In particular, did one on Sheryl Crow and a series TV series ah series on Melissa Etheridge. And last comment would be that Amy directed a 2018 documentary about her filmmaker Hal Ashby called Hal. And what really struck me is in the synopsis is that one of the lines is the film you know basically uncovers or talks about Ashby's uncompromising nature played out as a cautionary tale of art versus commerce. And i have not seen the film yet, but if this theme did not come up with Adam and recovering the satellites, I would be really surprised. I think I could just copy paste that log line. Yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker
I have not made that direct connection yet, but yes, there is a theme of individuals that I find
Collaboration with Bill Simmons
00:04:00
Speaker
fascinating. stuff So um there's two questions we basically you know have have to ask. One of them being just, despite you know your background, there's a lot of other people with music documentary backgrounds. How did you get involved in this project?
00:04:15
Speaker
um Well, first first of all, i just want to say I'm extremely lucky and fortunate. This was, this is you know, these projects that find their way to you are a dream to work on. um So I had, i was in touch with, i love Bill Simmons. I love everything Bill Simmons has done, the whole 30 for 30 series. I think he's a phenomenal storyteller.
00:04:39
Speaker
his podcast, the whole enchilada bake that Bill Simmons does, I find wildly fascinating. So I was in touch with um with the folks at Ringer to, I wanted to do a film. um And so we were kicking around ideas for probably a year before this came about. And then Bill said, hey, listen, I,
00:05:00
Speaker
you know, don't know if you're a fan or you would have interest, but you know, i interviewed Adam and it was a really robust conversation and I think it would make a really good film. So listen to the interview and let me know what you think. And I, and I of course was like, are you kidding me? Absolutely. Yes.
Inside the Documentary's Approach
00:05:17
Speaker
So, um, I think that he, I think that Bill had seen, um, Michelle Crow documentary and responded to that.
00:05:26
Speaker
And then when I got on a zoom with Adam, um as you guys know he's a he's a cinephile he's a movie he's a incredibly astute um movie watcher and he had seen the hal ashby doc and really responded to that and so i think that was kind of that's how i got in the door um it was um just very very very very lucky As happens with that. So I know, i think you talked about this when Chris saw your panel at the Tribeca, but I guess fans would want to know um be what what did you know, like, et cetera, anything about Crown & Crows music before starting the process, you know? yeah
00:06:12
Speaker
So like I said, I'm not um like ah like a, like super, super fan. So in a way that was helpful because I think that you can approach, you can approach something like this more from a story and a humanist perspective. And, and i would have, it would have been heartbreaking if I had been more, i mean, now, now I'm obviously even more of a fan and have more knowledge about, about the band, but I think if I had approached it from that perspective, it it would have been extra heartbreaking to not have to, to not cover other eras and and music and all that. So it's like truncating it down to, and you know, we only cover the first two records and in this film.
00:06:55
Speaker
So, and to tell you the truth, that those were the records that i knew i obviously i'm aware of their entire catalog um like i graduated high school in the mid ninety s so it's like you couldn't you can't not know right it was like um because we rate we had all had a different relationship with radio at that time and mtb and bh1 and all that so um and adam as we say in the kind of make his point in the film, he's such a recognizable person.
00:07:24
Speaker
that he There's nobody that looked looked like him or sounded like him or he was an anomaly that really stood out in that era.
Adam Duritz and Mental Health
00:07:34
Speaker
so So yeah, i was i was a fan of the early, early stuff and then um aware of later music. And I knew that i knew that he had had had dealt with, just struggled with with the issues of fame. I knew that about him, or I'd read that you know a few years ago, this is when I started the film, this is kind of all I knew. It was like, yeah, Adam adam had talked about mental health in a way that people weren't necessarily talking about. i think he's one of the folks that like destigmatized even having this conversation in pop culture, which I thought was really cool. And that's about all I knew. No, that's great because that, I mean, it's, it's, as someone who dabbled a little bit of studying film, I know that with documentaries that, that's always it's not even a moral, it's just always an
Bill Simmons' Music Box Vision
00:08:22
Speaker
interesting choice. Do you choose somebody as a director who knows the, already the topic very intimately and has different thoughts? Do you, do you have someone who some knowledge of the topic or someone that doesn't know anything and then comes in, right, and just kind of explores themselves? So, yeah. Bill, you know, the Bill Simmons said, the the this is a Music Box series film. And so he has a vision with that. It's a curated vision. And it's not, it it covers artists. and it covers like a moment in time or an event or some sort of, some, you know, crucible of of game changery, you know? And so it's not as, soup and it's not cradle to grave kind of, you know, comprehensive.
00:09:05
Speaker
So I think that that, I think when he was looking at the films that I've made and maybe maybe my approach, um think I think that that was like, okay, this kid can tell a story that's like, you know, maybe suits his his vision for the series a little bit more.
00:09:21
Speaker
you yeah Was the goal always to cover like the first two records? Did the vision either expand or contract over the course of the the process? That was that was the, it was it was August and everything after and how that record just shot them into the stratosphere, shot them into space. at that time, just from little band in Oakland, there's a little hippie band, and then just shot into the stratosphere of fame. And then what came after that, how he handled it, how he navigated that, what kind of an artist he was, and how all of those things sort of were manifested in recovering the satellites, which, you know, I think it
00:10:07
Speaker
I don't know what Adam's favorite record is, but I but i know that it's very close very near to his heart. It's a very important record to him. so Absolutely. You got me thinking suddenly when you're talking about Dredd. And I know you mentioned the Dredds in the film, even though I haven't seen it. But i was i was just thinking when you said that. yeah He is one of when he had the Dredds, maybe the most recognizable or one of the top 10 of music artists. I wonder how much now without the Dredds, can he actually have a day of going shopping at the corner store where somebody doesn't recognize him now? I'm not sure. Yeah. Probably a little easier, but he's still like a very striking individual. you Yeah. like a
00:10:45
Speaker
he's He's, yeah, I think yeah I would recognize him if I saw him. yeah okay Chris, did you have a ah follow-up?
Broadening the Band's Story
00:10:52
Speaker
sure i've got Also really curious in terms of, sos essentially you mentioned in terms of your process, right, that you kind of started listening to you know an interview with Adam and Having seen sort of documentary, one of the things I really liked about it was that the perspectives were a lot broader, that you did really include the rest of the perspective of sort of the rest of the band. Because normally, you know, Adam's someone who gets to tell his story somewhat frequently on podcasts and other media. And so I really love that we kind of brought that in. So what was that like in terms of, you know, going from, guess, talking with Adam first to sort of expanding that perspective? Yeah.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, out the the band, and i and I think Adam would say the same thing, they were so cool and so funny. And each one of those guys could have their own documentary. i mean, honestly, like,
00:11:43
Speaker
their body of work as individual artist artists. I mean, I was like a camper van Beethoven fan. oh wow okay Meeting Emmer Gluck was like, I was trying to be cool, you know, it rarely happens because I've interviewed a lot of celebrities, but that there's, there's individuals that, and it's usually with musicians. I'm just like, dang, I i wish that we, there there was a long, a long list of people that I wish that we could have included. um And, and we, you know, we did interview the current band to those guys, Millard and Jim. I mean, they're, they're so funny and their stories were incredible, but because they weren't in the band for the period of time that we covered, it just kept, it didn't make sense. And we had them in the film and we were like, oh, this is heartbreaking. i' have to take these guys out because they're so awesome. Um, but yeah, i was, you know, i was at him first, obviously spent a lot of time with him.
00:12:39
Speaker
i what for he's an incredibly private person you know and so for him to let us i mean we filmed it in his that's his house you know lives and he was so um uh him and zoe both to open their home and let a film crew in and they had to move all this furniture and like i said he's a collector so he's got the coolest collections of you know music and instruments and art and book, like books, books, books everywhere.
00:13:09
Speaker
And then there's a whole other side of the house, it's film. So it was just the the fact that he let us in for that long of a time speaks to what kind of a person he is. And then we would you know, sort map out like, okay, got to talk to this person, you got to to this person, they're going to tell you this perspective. He never dictated anything to me in terms of like, oh, that person can't be in it or this for, you know, it was like very like, hey, man, this is, can, I can give you a roadmap and, you know, you, you figure out the route. So it was a, yeah, pretty, pretty special thing.
Challenges of Filming and Touring
00:13:47
Speaker
Not everybody's like that.
00:13:49
Speaker
I agree with Chris, and thanks for sharing that. I agree with Chris that I think for, you know, just for music fans in general or casual fans, they're to want to hear about Adam. They're going to want to, they're going to want to, read a lot of them maybe bought August and didn't buy Recovering actually, and they'll be interested in this. and then the Statistics say there's about five and a half million people who, that's true.
00:14:09
Speaker
yeah and then And then they'll probably go out and hopefully go out and buy it after listening to you. But but I agree with with the fans of like our podcast who know Counting Grows you know front to back. what they They are really interested in hearing from the other band members because Adam does get a lot of exposure. And except for ah Emmy and to a much lesser extent, Jim, who's not in the documentary, we don't get to hear their stories very much. And so we're really looking forward to that. When you did do that, logistically,
00:14:38
Speaker
did you did you set up you know a week and they all came or did you have to visit them in all their houses or were they recording at the time for the other band members? No, you guys are going to.
00:14:49
Speaker
We were around them in different, but they they live all over. They don't all live in New York. They're all over the place. um They were on tour constantly. It was really like, when can we cap? We figured out there was a
00:15:08
Speaker
a time when we were all crossing paths. We wanted, I wanted to film, uh, we did film, um, the show at Red Rocks that they did. And so we knew, okay, if we post, they're going to, they were there for longer than we were working with the band's manager to kind of figure out, um, because you don't want to show up with a film crew at the end of the tour. They're so tired. They don't know. It's like, you're going to be really strategic about, um you know, setting up this time. And so we figured out they were going to be in Denver for a handful of days. And we were like, Hey, can we post up at the hotel you guys are staying at? And we won't be annoying, but we'll just carve out some space.
00:15:47
Speaker
And when you have time, you know, so we kind of set up the situation where they would rotate through and we talked to them. the The hotel happened to be the Four Seasons, which I'm a girl from Oklahoma, so I had not stayed in the Four Seasons for any period of my life, let let alone like three or four days. I was like, oh my God, there's a phone in the bathroom. Like, what are you doing? It was so wild.
00:16:10
Speaker
So I was on cloud nine. um But getting to know those guys. And then we interviewed, I think we we actually interviewed. Emmy, and David Emmer Gluck, and there was a handful of folks in l LA too. So we did kind of split it up a little bit there, but yeah, that's how that came about. And I can tell you, like, I wish i wish that I had more time with them and we and they were really generous and we got a lot of time. But I think that, like you say, that um and I think that Adam,
00:16:45
Speaker
Adam would have loved to even have more of the, bit he doesn't want to be the guy with the microphone. He's like, get, let them talk. help Doing this shit for so long. And he's just, that's not his personality type. So, um but you know, like talking to Bryson, like getting his perspective was fascinating and they were all, you know, and then Charlie's like, Charlie's got a real um he's got a real presence like on camera.
00:17:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I'm like, this guy's like, he's like James Dean or Chris Isaac. I mean, he just has this way about him and he could be a film star. um And his his delivery is just incredible. And he would nail these stories and then he'd hold the, I was like, man, this guy's an, is he an actor? Like how does he know he's delivered like this? um And a super high IQ too. Oh my goodness. Yeah. I mean, he, yeah, he, the ah like I said, all of them unique individuals that are, you know, really brilliant, exceptionally brilliant minds. And then Emmer Gluck, I just geeked out with him before we even hit record. I think I talked to him
00:17:52
Speaker
No, this is actually, this is on camera. Because I was like, oh, my God. I was embarrassed. But um we just shot the shit about music for, you know, talked kind of bonded over Captain Beefheart. We have a mug. I need to give him for Christmas. But um he's, you know, ah a real, like, you know, he's a head. He's like um a music head. They all are. so Yeah.
00:18:16
Speaker
by the way By the way, Amy, we'll plug ah that um about a year and a half ago, we interviewed David Lowery on
Band Dynamics and Collaborative History
00:18:22
Speaker
the podcast. so And he talked a little bit about Camper van Beethoven. So it might be worth listening to that episode. Cool. Awesome.
00:18:30
Speaker
um but I will say and I will emphasize if if anyone who's like listening to this hasn't seen the the documentary yet, I think the perspective that they bring fills in like so many dots, I think, in especially that story, the stories of like August and everything after.
00:18:44
Speaker
And just sort of I mean, again, you always hear the perspective of, well, we were kind of a band. We hadn't figured it out yet. And Adam had to. you know, bring everyone together and kind of give the perspective. And you get this these pieces from Charlie and and Dave Bryson um that are so affecting when they're when Dave is talking about, like, what that was like for it to go from a partnership with the two of them to um Adam being in charge. There's a great, like, Bryson quote where ah he's asking, like, is... um You know, how does it work? say Well, adams makes Adam makes decisions, um you know, and it's okay. Sometimes it's not. Mostly it's okay. And you're like, you get so much. You get so much in a handful of words strung together in order.
00:19:26
Speaker
ah We were just hanging on. i'm like. Oh, wow. Okay. You know, and like, it's my job. And I'm also just not interested in exploiting a situation or trying to be like, you know, reality produced your way through like, Ooh, tell me more about the conflict because that's just not the deal, but they, they, it's like, a you know, it's a marriage. This guy's been married to each other a long time. And in a, in a marriage, you know, you're,
00:19:54
Speaker
you're gonna have some pregnant pauses in in your stories so it was it was um so fascinating and they and they have not taken you consider that most of the band is still together you know for years that they have not taken a lot of time off i mean people are like well there's bigger gaps between albums but it's not like they stop touring for five years and get a break from each other said it really is long-term marriage um for making records making records making records consistently putting out uh music and performing and you know elevate elevating and and yeah musicians are fascinating to uh to me just for completeness and for the listening that um
00:20:43
Speaker
so amy from what i understand interviewed all of the current members who were involved in recovering the satellites um and then also interviewed amet malli who was the bassist uh during recovering who's no longer uh with with the band did you actually didn't get ben mize and that's what i was gonna say that you consider or oh you know definitely we kind of reef.
00:21:06
Speaker
We ran out of time and money, i think. Okay, um I think it was a I'm trying to remember. ah But we, we were coming for Ben. And it was like, you know, you can we you have to stop at some point. um But it would have been great to have him. Matt Malley was finding Matt was great, too. um I wasn't sure where how that was going to work, you know?
00:21:28
Speaker
um And that was a that was a really, he was also really gracious and, you know, come come over to my studio and ah set up and film in here and was just a total sweetheart. Doug. Yeah. Yeah. We've been able to interview him and that's the word that I would say gracious that day and just, and just a good interview. so um right yeah. yeah who Who else was other than Ben, was there anyone else that was sort of top of your list that just sort of like that kind of didn't get in or that.
00:21:56
Speaker
i I would have, I would have liked to interviewed some more of the record label folks early days to get that kind of perspective. That would have been, you know, have been cool. I'm trying to think, ah you know, on the personal level, there's, it kept coming up that like, do we, do we try to track down the cast of friends? And it just didn't seem it didn't seem like an interesting story to follow up in that way. Like, i I think like the women that we included in the film are like Adam's sister, you know, Sarah, Pantera Sarah and Shanna McManus from the Viper Room.
00:22:46
Speaker
And then of course, Mary Louise Parker and Zoe. It was like, I think we're i think we're good on the statement that I wanted to be making that I don't need to go and find Courtney Cox. I don't think Adam would want that in his movie. Like, it not not them. I'm sure they're all, it's totally fine. It's just, was I just can't even, um you always think about like,
00:23:10
Speaker
i I can't imagine having a film made about my life. It'd be horrifying. It'd be so horrifying. A head trip. And so it's almost like, just really try to take care of the story and tell the right story. so Yeah. and Especially because because even though that's part of his quote unquote identity when people sometimes think who don't know them very well, oh, that's the guy that dated right It's not really, it's not like those were his his wife for, you know, 20 years. Then you could say, okay, clearly that was part of his history. But no, this was just something kind of media created. so That's the part that I think about. I'm like, oh God, if a camera crew showed up to people that I dated in my 20s, I'd be qualified.
00:23:50
Speaker
And because it don't it doesn't represent who you are. for Adam and especially though, it's incredibly reductive that that came the byline. Like dreadlock guy dates, you know, cast of friends. yep And you're like, yeah, but he also just released this record called recovering. It's pretty fucking good. You know, maybe check that out.
00:24:12
Speaker
You know, there's more. Yeah. And it's really interesting how, I mean, ah Jeff Harkness wrote a book that sort of, you know, was unauthorized biography, but kind of covers
Adam Duritz in Media and Public Perception
00:24:22
Speaker
so many things. But, and part of what he does is you can see in kind of tracking sort of the press that they got over time, that that sort of remained the reductive thing for so long after, which is sort of surprising, right? And it's almost makes, i think it's part of why sort of recovering is sort of a nice stopping point for the documentary you how many years, but it you know was probably an over and over thing of of hearing about that, um which is sort of, i can I think the way you kind of framed it is sort of heartbreaking in a way that that became such a thing for this person who was so dedicated to you know being a ah a person who was acting in the music industry in a in a way that was true to themselves, that they sort of, be Adam sort of became reduced to this thing about, again, dating someone from friends.
00:25:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was incredibly frustrating for him because considering how um seriously he takes his music um and his artistry and to throw your entire, just ah your entire self into your work and then to have it kind of twisted and thrown back at you. I mean, it was a different time too. people people people suck, you know, really do. And it was, you know, that was, I included some, some of the harder lines in the film to hear come out of his mouth. And then to hear come out of like Mary Louise, like, you know, a car would roll up next to them and people would yell, kind of gross suck, you know? And it's like, man, what, what, the who are we? Like, what is the, what is, what in the world would compel that?
00:25:59
Speaker
You know, and I would my editor, my team, we'd talk about this constantly and be like, are we making a movie in the log lines? Kind of like practice the golden rule. I don't know. Like I tried to not be like some moralistic take on it, but it was like, geez, Louise, like what a this, this is crazy what that dude went, what he went through, you know? And then when you couple it with what his inner, what he was struggling with and internally during that time, like pretty shattering. And it's yeah it's it's frustrating, I know, for, although I sometimes like to have enemies anyway, but it's frustrating for me did that even now to hear that, um right, it wasn't, this was not some, you know, corporate created band of people that didn't have talent. I mean, Adam just knows music more than, you know, almost any artist and and they're so talented, the band. And and as you said, you know, there's been a lot of press recently about how how like great Gen X is. And I think there is a lot of great things to say about Gen X. But when I do, go by and it's been ah it's it's been in a quite, of I've seen a quite a theme over the last couple of years, actually. And then, but then I hear, but like, yeah, and then I think of somebody yelling at Adam in the street and then I get mad about Gen X because that was also that generation. so
00:27:12
Speaker
i'm i'm ah I'm in Gen X. I saw that. It was like clickbait. And then you can tell me what was, what's the, why, why is Gen X ah the greatest? other Well, i I think some of it had to do with that, you know, i think some of it is is is is like, ah oh, they're um they're not the boomers and they're not the boomers kids. And so they have that. They're also like the last generation to grow up, right? internet.
00:27:37
Speaker
pre-internet really. yeah um we and we more creative and a lot of things that are super popular to this day started during that generation, maybe not by the Gen Xers themselves. And then, um you know, like like MTV. Yeah. yeah and Even I mean, the kids even still play with the same eighty s toys and, you know, today. um yeah yeah So.
00:27:58
Speaker
It is interesting how – do you think that aspect of the movie – it feels very current in that way too because in some ways it sort of presages the sort of modern thing of like people yelling at you on – I was literally actually looking at the comments on a ah YouTube video today of the Crows and – again, just negativity, but that's it almost really to be expected because every comment section in everything on the internet today is
Modern Relevance and Digital Age Challenges
00:28:21
Speaker
negative. um And so in in some ways, like the the story that it's telling about people's response to another and the other person is very, very modern. in a way, actually kind of like Have You See Me Lately as a song is very modern because of that, the sort of weird disconnection you can have from yourself. And social media, yeah. absolutely Yeah, it's become a more universal sentiment than maybe it was in 1996. You know, that everyone is like, have you seen me lately? You know, yes, absolutely.
00:28:49
Speaker
I will also say, though, that on that, like I went to the HBO Instagram or something in there and Facebook. And there's also there's definitely people like ah that are so, oh, wow, I always love them. Like, so excited. You can definitely tell there's people that have that album that they're As soon as they heard and then they're like, oh, now they're getting nostalgic and they're going to go what watch the movie. what what One thing I definitely wanted to ask, and I know you talked about Bill Simmons in the Music Box series did and and some of the footage you used. it's my
00:29:20
Speaker
But even though Bill might have been the executive producer of a lot of these um films, it seems like the crows, maybe more than some of the other ones, are near and dear to his heart. yeah so So that probably was, i don't want to say pressure, but that's interesting. And then also, did you know, and I don't know how much of it you have or didn't get, but there has been this, and Chris maybe you can talk to this more, but there had been this legend for years about all this archival footage from when they recorded in the recovering satellites in the house, and maybe there was a different documentary planned. and so But- But this had been like kind of this legend building with Crows fans for years and to finally get it. Did you know anything about that or have you heard, et cetera?
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, a lot of that we we have a lot of that footage is in is in the documentary. So um we have ah not a ton of it. there was so it's the um I'm blanking on their names right now. I can't believe this. But it's the filmmakers that went on to make that movie, a Little Miss Sunshine. um The footage is but insane. It's so cool to see how, because it was the house is as cavernous, giant, giant,
00:30:25
Speaker
Tudor mansion, you know, and then they just tricked it out and all that this was parts of these stories with some of that footage.
Visual Style and Archival Footage
00:30:34
Speaker
That's if when they're when you have these sort of heartbreaking like, oh, god there's not there's just not enough time ah to tell this story. But um the the stories of how they recorded it by like.
00:30:47
Speaker
taking light bulbs down to the basement and and you know like breaking smashing these light bulbs and recording that sound. I mean, that that didn't make it into the film, which I was was sad and sad and to me because I think that that's what the fans really want to know, you know that kind of stuff but um Yeah, there was there was also a fire at the record label. So a lot a lot of stuff was lost in that way. um We had we have a pretty great um archivist. I mean, this this woman, Jackie Clary, she's phenomenal. She's like a private investigator, like ah like a for this kind of stuff. And so she unearthed a lot of cool stuff. And then, you know, Dave Bryson, this is a filmmaker's dream.
00:31:33
Speaker
Bryson's like, oh, I did keep a tour journal ah during that time. He's like, you're kidding me? What? He's like, yeah, it's like photos and yeah, just ticket stubs. And it's like, turns out Bryson was sitting on like that air that time like the first tour first time we're going to Europe like we you know and you can just see the band was like they're just kids taking off and then by the end of it you're like oh no what's coming next like I'm like i'll make afraid for them but that was that was you know that was some incredible find but yeah to answer your question a lot of that footage is in is in the film so yeah Brett Bryson could have started could start his own museum and of kind of grows and nobody knew um who does that? And that is so of a different era because now it would just be on your phone. You're just taking pictures.
00:32:27
Speaker
You know, we're not like a thoughtful, brett i hope the pendulum swings back and I hope that, um, people start to, you know, take a pen to paper and journal and just try to remember. I'm trying to teach my daughters this, you know, it's like the... But I saw that one of the reviews of the film already touched on that, that you kind of brought an aesthetic and a little vibe of some analog in there. Is there a review? I haven't it. Yeah, saw that. But somebody caught that, who's probably of our generation, right? And they were. It was not a 25-year-old reviewing it. Yeah, I think I did see that.
00:33:04
Speaker
That's part of what I like though. so go ahead I was just going to say there's a lot of like legitimate VHSC. It's not a filter. It's like Brian Morrow, the producer of the film. um And also ah he always, he's always shooting like Super 8 or 16 mil or on our other films. But in this one, he's like, I think it's appropriate to shoot VHSC because it's the ninety So we would have all that. Brian was constantly rolling VHSC out of airplane, you know, just everywhere we went. um And it really worked. It gave it this tactile 90s sheen that um it was cool.
00:33:38
Speaker
I had a lot of with that. yeah I love that. Yeah, I love that the um the the bouncing back and forth between sort of that VHS and then the sort of the high definition, even with some of the older footage and things where you could both then see the sort of you get the benefit of high definition that it's 2025, but also, yeah, that tactile feeling of like, this is the 90s and all of the photos. That's actually one of the loved about the section on on the Viper Room is aid all those people, again, who are not generally people who talk about that time period. um And then the foot, the photos of it where you're like, Oh, this is what that looks like. Like I've been hearing about the Viper room since yeah probably since the eighties and you're like, Oh, this is what this looked like. You know, on all three of um Randall Slavin, you know, who is a, ah he's a professional photographer. His, his work is insanely beautiful. He was really generous to,
00:34:28
Speaker
you know, let us look peek in his files, photos of that of that time, because there was no cell phones. And because you had to Pantera Sarah was a was a hilarious, you know, and she would capture everything on these disposable cameras and then have it. you know process it that night so that she could, it was just great. And then of course, Shannon was the manager of the Viper Room. And when she rolled up to her interview, she just like dumps all these photos on a table. Again, it's like a filmmaker's dream. you're like, you know, they're like, they're so Gen Xers are so, they're so cool. You know, they're just like, oh, I got some photos. And you're like, okay, well, how many are like,
00:35:06
Speaker
know. We'll see you. We'll see on set. So I'm just like, know, it's going have like five pictures. And I was just like, oh, dear God, this great. This is wonderful. There are so many side stories that we could have gone down.
Emotional Impact of Concerts
00:35:20
Speaker
was going to say, how long is the director's cut? Is it? will direct Eric and I will watch seven hours if you need. We're here. There's no director's cut. HBO owns this movie.
00:35:32
Speaker
There is a there was a lot. I was texting with my editor this morning. i was like, how many hours did we cut this down from? I was like, oh, Lord, I don't know. oh a lot over at least 40 40 mean there's a lot there's a lot of a lot of footage um interviews a lot of you know then you think like just you have different endings that you try out because you're in the show at the at um Red Rocks and it was it was really beautiful it was so beautiful um and when I say beautiful the songs were beautiful it was really focused a lot on audience members that were just emotionally
00:36:08
Speaker
ah Just, you know, in literal tears. When Adam plays that Jackson C. Frank song, Blues Run the Game, when he plays that live, people just lose it. I mean, it was a ah really, it was like he held he can hold, don't know how many people are in that can are seated in that venue, but the capacity, but um he holds them all in that space. And it was a really profound thing to see. so yeah, i wanted to show more of that in the film today.
00:36:37
Speaker
It doesn't, it's just weird the way
Editing and Filmmaking Process
00:36:40
Speaker
storytelling is. There's always a, there's a balance. So if you stay a little too long in this performance, then it turns into that kind of a movie. And you're always just trying to negotiate the the balance of it all. Especially, yeah, especially with documentaries. Yeah, so i as we hinted 100 times, if if in a year from now, you're allowed to release other things, it would be, the the first request for us would be the longer form interviews of the other band members. yeah um So get Bill on the case. I wish that I was a stakeholder in that conversation. did um Unfortunately not. All jokes aside, though, going back to but Bill and either as as it was a work in progress or final cut, I want to talk about his happiness or or like, is this what you're looking for, Bill? Is this super fan, you know, kind of thing? Oh, yeah, but but but Bill's not the kind of, he's not the kind of guy that's like, like, ah
00:37:31
Speaker
He's not like the king and we're like court jesters. Right, right. not He's a very, very light touch. And a lot we hear this all the time. It's like people love to say we're filmmaker friendly. And you're like, oh, yeah, well, we'll see it in one yeah year how friendly you are. And it is actually the case. It's very true with both with HBO and with Bill and the in the Ringer.
00:37:53
Speaker
He was never like his notes were um he never had his his thumb on the project in a way. It was like questions more like, have you considered this angle or have you have you thought about this? And so it would prompt um me to go back and go, man, OK, I'm not I haven't done a good enough job to sell this point yet. I need to go back and dig deeper and refine this or whatnot. And that was really good. And then in terms of like what Adam thinks about the film, because I know that question is coming to he's ah he's a music guy and he just he he I think if he in his ideal world, it's just loaded with more music. I mean, that's what He saw I know he was really a fan of the um but Led Zeppelin doc that just came out, which is awesome. It's so good. I don't get high anymore, but it makes you feel like hot I was like, do I need to start smoking pot again? It's that good. But um
00:38:54
Speaker
I think that Adam would have wanted more of that. But, um you know, I can't even imagine what, like I said, of what what it's like to watch a movie starring you about you. Yeah, especially as you said, it gets into the personal...
00:39:10
Speaker
Yeah, no I think you're right. Yeah, you got me thinking. I really think of Adam, nothing to do with your story. I bet you Adam's part is like, oh, I wish they would also make a second film that focuses on my other albums because they have a lot of awesome, fantastic songs that nobody knows. And if somebody makes a movie about it, maybe they'll actually listen and then buy the by the by the album. So, yeah.
00:39:30
Speaker
Which is ah like the most reasonable response. Yeah. Oh, that's a good thing. That's a shame. There's all these other songs, all these other records. I will say, I did think the volume of music was pretty good. I particularly really liked the way you guys cut that so the sort of the SNL section like with the comments. and And it's a lot of the footage enough that it was sort of like, but the comments from everyone as it's happening, I had kind of like goosebumps when you kind of get to the end there. And they're like, yeah, we're, we know this is basically, because everyone, again, it's part of the story, right? You know, they they play SNL.
00:40:01
Speaker
They explode, but it really, you feel it in the way they're sort of describing it there. That's the cautionary tale part of the film where it's like, little careful, careful what's coming. Because every nothing nothing is going to be the same after this moment. Your life life as you know it is going to be different from here on out. Yeah. that Thank you, though, because that those those are moments.
00:40:25
Speaker
yeah it's really, it's really expensive to license like an entire performance. So you have to kind of break break it up in a way if you want to use it. And so trying to use that performance as a as a moment and then bring everybody into it to, to you know, like Rashomon to tell their side and their side, here's what I was feeling from the stage or whatnot. And then have what Adam was feeling and and what he dealt with, but not lose the, cause it's jarring when you go away from music and then you come back, you know, to make sure that it wasn't jarring. So then the score has to work to fill in the in-between parts. And it's a real, that moment in the film is something I'm really i'm really proud of because we were worked our asses off on that one.
00:41:12
Speaker
Speaking of the story that you're trying to tell, one thing, i think this is an interesting question, but one thing when I was reading your bio and and reading about the film is did you either relate or project or have some feeling about the story?
Amy Scott's Passion for Music
00:41:26
Speaker
and I know it's not exactly the same because he was already well-established, but you're right. You live in Hollywood or I wouldn't say you live in Hollywood, but you moved to the Hollywood eco. Yeah. to the You moved to the Hollywood Pasadena ecosystem. yeah And, um and that you're from out of state and then, right. You're an outsider until you're an insider. um And then also Adam moved to Hollywood. Now he did it after the success of his first album, but I don't know. Did you have any thoughts about that or relate to that a little bit? Or about that?
00:41:57
Speaker
I love, yeah, of course. i There was a lot of common, you know, she Cheryl, when I made this documentary about Cheryl Crow, she this she'd had the same thing. Everybody kind of, like, you moved to LA. And then, yeah, there was a lot of things that that I could see parallels. This is the city where, it's the city of artists. And it's a city where you go to, you know,
00:42:19
Speaker
to try to act on your dreams and it, and it either happens or it doesn't. And that's what gives this place such a interesting um vibe. And it's a divisive place as, as Dave Bryson, or sorry, as Emmy, Emmer Gluck says in the movies, like, you know, oh God, LA, like when he moved,
00:42:40
Speaker
When Adam moved to LA, they were just like, because they're from the Bay. you know it's like That dynamic is so funny to me um as an outsider. It's hilarious. but ah you know, like, oh, it's the city of cheese and all things terrible. But yeah, but no, you've never actually been there. People would say this never actually, you know, been there. I had the same perception of this place too. I lived in Chicago for a long time and that's, it's not very LA friendly place.
00:43:08
Speaker
But, um but yeah, I think LA in that era of time was a really, um, was a really ah special time for this city. ah Chris, I think you were gonna ask, ah or maybe not about, I guess just real quick, just about yourself, do you about that. ah I know you're doing other projects and have done other projects, but obviously now you've done a couple of music documentaries. Was there, is that something that, you know,
00:43:32
Speaker
you were strongly motivated to tell music stories or you just did one and then what happens is you do a great one and then people want you for more or etc did you want to talk about that part your career definitely a combination of that um i just keep i just think i'm just really grateful i feel like i made this film with my team about hal ashby because i really loved i loved his films and i loved his work and we didn't have any money we raised we can't we crowdfunded um and just kind of, you know, did it for free for years. And it's in, but we took it seriously. And um that film kind of changed my life. I think that people that
00:44:10
Speaker
really liked that movie, um, or also have good taste in music. And so out of that came these sort of music things would come my way, but like, I'm a music freak as well. And, um, you know, with college DJ and worked at record stores and that whole, you know, so, and went and been on many tours with bands across Europe. And so I understand that world. And um so when the when the projects have come to me and I have a chance to, because they ah they don't just come and they just give you a film. You got to compete for it and you go up against other directors and you know try to convince people why you should be the one to make the movie. I just take it like, I think musicians are
00:44:59
Speaker
they have superpowers and they're like, you know, they're they're there's they're so special. They're in a different, they're just in a different breed. and i And I find it fascinating to figure out or just observe what makes them do what they do. Like how they work their magic. It's like they're casting spells all the time. You know, it's like Adam casts a spell over Red Rocks and it's freaky. It's so impressive.
00:45:23
Speaker
ah so So, yeah, the i have I have fought really hard to get the films. And it just it just happens that they are a lot of I mean, have another music documentary that I think is too contracted a to disclose what it is, but it'll come out soon
Upcoming Projects and Reflections
00:45:41
Speaker
in the spring. And that's a totally different kind of a music documentary. great woman That is phenomenal. So I find them to be really, really fun too.
00:45:52
Speaker
And thanks for focusing on his artistic integrity or the band's artistic integrity, because I almost think because of the way they hit with those singles and Adam's dreads that, yeah, if there if there's people that only know them and don't even and quote unquote don't like them, I think that they think that they are not the in you right that kind of artist. Oh, you know, that and that's exactly what they are as artists of integrity. It's so clear if you dive in a little bit. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
00:46:19
Speaker
Do you know, can I ask you, do you, you might not know all their songs, but do you know and then um the song Amy hit the atmosphere since you started following them? that That's one of their songs? Yeah. Which one, what, what record is that on? ah That's on this desert life, which is the David Lowery one. Yeah. yeah yeah or or that record Yeah. That record's fantastic. That record's great.
00:46:38
Speaker
If it was like, it would have been cool to have, it's the first three records. that we can cover because there's like there's a lot of good jams off that one. yeah Yeah, I just laughed because when I saw Amy, you know, we yeah but your name comes up sometimes when we mention that song. um Chris, did you have any questions that you wanted to ask?
00:46:58
Speaker
I'm actually curious. about pick that You said you toured with bands in Europe. Oh, my gosh. Yes. I toured with a little band called Of Montreal. Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
I lived in Athens for a little while. And in actually, the ah composer, might i say it it's always weird to say my editor, my composer. The composer that I am lucky enough to work with on all of my films, Heather McIntosh, was ah just a dear if she's been a dear friend of mine. She was in Nutramilk Hotel. And if you're into that kind of scene, there's another band in Chicago named Joan of Arc that I did a lot of touring with. but I've heard of them, yeah. like Yeah, like, ah you know, which oddly enough, when I went to Adam's um house to film him, and i was like looking down at, ah he had a bunch of music books, table guitar tablatures and things. And, uh, he had this band American football, which are, old old friends of mine and, um, in another life ago, but it was, um, yeah, these things kind of come, they come at you, at least in my life, everything is starting to come full circle.
00:48:08
Speaker
Um, which is a really, it's a fun, yeah, it's a fun time. Or maybe I'm just like a mom now. so I just noticed everything. say So all those hours in the sprinter really paid off, you know?
00:48:20
Speaker
so So maybe one other final question I'm thinking of, and i guess you could well not answer this at all, or maybe you'd have two parts, which is that like now that it's complete and it's going to be out, and then in a couple months it'll be in the in some ways the rearview mirror, even though I hope people keep watching it and picking up traction, is that is there, I don't want thing you learned, but do you think in the end, one thing either you reflected on and it could be about the band, like, oh, Adam said this about the band and it was so interesting and it's always going to stick with me, but also could be just a life lesson that has nothing to do with the band itself, right? Sometimes Adam says something that you relate to your own life, et cetera. Are there any kind of of of of of takeaways personally that you had after working so long on this documentary?
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my gosh. Absolutely. Well, you the when we were talking about the Hal Ashby film what was the byline of that was like a what did I say there in the beginning um Ashby's uncompromising nature played out as a cautionary tale of art versus commerce that's so uncompromising nature uncompromising artists and how that's a cautionary tale ah is something that I find
Art and Commerce: Adam Duritz's Integrity
00:49:30
Speaker
wildly fascinating. And it's only, it's only going to get weirder and weirder and worse and worse. It's like, as capitalism takes the foothold and puts boot on art, how to, how do artists negotiate that? And it inc comes up in my life. um And it's the, the, the word that I find
00:49:50
Speaker
is was Adam was uncompromising, you know, because he like with SNL, he also, we didn't have time to tell this story, but you know, I'm sure you guys know, like he,
00:50:03
Speaker
He didn't, you know, they they screwed with him on the cover of Rolling Stone in terms of like what shirt he was wearing. And he was like, no, man, I'm not changing my shirt. You know, it's like um he is authentically who he is and did just push back on basically anything that ran counter to what he wanted the music to sound like or the band to be, you know,
00:50:27
Speaker
who they were. And I think that that is what makes him just a really dynamic person. He did not capitulate and he paid for it I mean, he really paid the price with a lot of institutions, um you know, because yeah, and this they people don't um easily forget, you know, like in the film industry, you know, you can get blackballed for X, Y, Z. There's just, yeah it's insular and everyone knows everybody. And, you're not going to, if you push back against the system in a way that he did, and it happened, it it its was sort of a big point ah that I tried to make in the Hal Ashby films, he did the same thing.
00:51:03
Speaker
the But it was, it's because they're artists. They're not, business they're not, it's, they're not sales people, you know, they're not, they don't have degrees in marketing. They're artists and it, and it is, um it messes with them as it should. So yeah, it comes when I get, when I get frustrated in my own lane, i i constantly look at, I look to these guys for how they've handled themselves and how they dealt with it. And also like it maybe pick your battles sometimes, you know, Oh, right. A couple. Right. I think he said a couple of times. I think he talked about what is the top of the pops or something that he regretted in retrospect, you regret and not doing it. But the other thing is I've heard Adam interviewed and even if he got he was right about some of the things he he stood up for a lot of it, 95 percent of it. So um that's always a tough balance. Right. Because you could hurt yourself. But if you're right, you have to. What else do you have if not your integrity? Right. It's integrity. That's what it's all about. And um all of the people that I've made films with are about, it's a common theme, the integrity. of It's like, it's a common theme.
00:52:17
Speaker
Well, thank you so much. This was just a a lot of fun. and um yeah And we did not bring up Counting Crows trivia or anything like that. I would not win that game show, but would watch the game show.
00:52:31
Speaker
And thank you. it's It's a joy. I mean, as people obviously who spend a lot of time thinking about County Grows, it's a real joy to have a 90 minute film that's it's kind of so wonderful to sit down and watch and reflect on as fans. So thank you for leading the team that kind of brought that to life. Oh, goodness. I mean, as i I'm just, i am lucky. I am grateful and lucky and have so much gratitude around this project. um So thank you so much. And if it wasn't good, like yeah every so often you hear of a project that gets done and the director does not do a good job and then it gets shelved and it never gets made. And so obviously, so thank you for giving. You know. You're like, is it good? Because you're in the you're in the bubble. Yeah.
00:53:10
Speaker
Oh, God, i hope I hope to God, you know, this yeah i just want it to resonate, you know, and i think I think it has. I think it will. so So thank you again, Amy, and hopefully we'll talk to you again at some point in the future. Thank you. Thanks for listening here at Sullivan Street.
00:53:29
Speaker
Goodbye.
00:53:41
Speaker
I'm just