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E34: Butter Miracle Release Day!
256 Plays9 days ago
Counting Crows 7th LP of original material-- "BUTTER MIRACLE" -- was released today!
Chris and Eric give their take on the new songs and how well the album works as a whole. We also look back on the Crows career.
We also spend time talking about all of Adam's recent interviews and their upcoming tour.
It's rare to have a new Crows album released..let's enjoy!!!
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Transcript
Celebrating Counting Crows' New Release
00:00:17
Speaker
Happy Butter Miracle Day. I am Eric Vogelsang from the Sullivan Street Podcast. I'm here with Chris Meigs. Chris, happy Butter Miracle Day to you. We got a record. We got a record to listen to.
00:00:28
Speaker
and i woke up this morning, I sat i sat in a a chair on a beach, and I listened to a new Counting Crows record. What what more could one ask for in like a day? A super rare... That's why we think this might be our first, and I don't want to say only, but
The Rarity and Impact of New Albums
00:00:42
Speaker
our... whatever you call it, quick hits, hot takes, quick release, because, you know, this is the first album release since we've started the podcast. And so this is not something that happens very often at all. So let's get one advantage about being on. the Now, I ordered the CD. I think it just arrived. Actually, I got for my ring notification.
00:01:01
Speaker
um And I wish I had the liner notes because I am kind of curious if there's anything in the CD booklet. um But ah yeah, one advantage to the YouTube release now and I'm being on ah is it's always released ah midnight East Coast time for the US. s So I can start listening at 9 p.m. and I could listen for two hours and I don't totally destroy my bedtime.
00:01:24
Speaker
but A lot of people on Reddit are like, it's midnight. I'm going to keep it playing while I try to fall asleep. It's 1 a.m. m kind of thing in New York. ah So, yeah, so we have ah so we're going to quickly talk about I don't it's definitely I don't want to say a ah
Initial Reactions and Evolving Tastes
00:01:38
Speaker
review. I want to say, I guess, our hot takes. yeah This is I mean, there's no way with any record that you can really break it down on day one. This is more of a fun thing of just sort of.
00:01:47
Speaker
I almost want to just sort of capture these initial reactions to see yeah some of this is certainly going to change over the next the the months and the years. um There are songs I heard for the first time that didn't do it for me that are like my favorite songs and other ones that pop the first time that are just in in retrospect, you're kind of like, oh, that kind of works, but it's not...
00:02:06
Speaker
you know, my favorite song. Yeah. i mean, listen, we were talking about changing our hard candy ratings just, ah you know, a month ago. Right. And that's that, that, and that album has been released for 20 years.
Excitement for New Album and Documentary
00:02:18
Speaker
um So besides talking about Mudder, Butter Miracle, ah the Complete Sweets, we are going to save some time at the end, just because there really is a lot of, crows thingsy going on. This might be the most... I mean, I would almost argue this might be the most crowsy year that will likely happen for a while because... ah you know As we were saying in the in the pre-show, not only do we have the new album, but the h the the hidden the the the HBO documentary that's been long rumored to have you know happened and then you know was produced and and bankroll i think bankrolled by Bill Simmons. i think he Right. Well, his group. His group.
00:02:58
Speaker
And he has like a ah ah production arm at HBO or Max or whatever it's called now. um But yeah, that that premieres at the Prairie Becker Film Festival in less than a month from now. I'll be there on opening night.
00:03:12
Speaker
um Get your tickets now if you're listening to this and you're anywhere near... New York City. There's three different showings too. So you can, you don't have necessarily be there opening night. You could be there the second or third night as well. Just those are equally valid. They're all just, they're all just showing a movie. So um unlike a Crowe show, all of them will presumably be essentially the same once they've been taking cuts in between.
00:03:31
Speaker
Um, But yeah, there's just lot going on. Adam's everywhere. Adam's telling yeah fun stories on Jimmy Fallon. yeah you know Yeah, Jimmy Fallon and and and they they're interviewed. i just mentioned I put on Reddit yesterday, which got a lot. I mean, it's funny. People post on Reddit, oh, here's the new interview of the day. And I posted the the link to the GQ one.
00:03:50
Speaker
And boy, that got tons of likes because people really like that long form. And I did take some... notes about that uh you know by the way we don't know a lot about the documentary uh right or the the release date i was going to say the hbo release date we talked to some of the hbo it has not been announced yet but they said fall yes fall for the fall for i think for everyone is the likeliest answer yeah um And I guess I'll say because um he gave us authorization, but James Campion said, hey, that book is still in the works. Because when he came to our podcast, he said unofficially hiatus.
Counting Crows' Busy Year Ahead
00:04:24
Speaker
You know, he was optimistic. it would ah But since then, he told us and said we can share.
00:04:30
Speaker
that he does plan to finish that book. um The last, the wrapping up part, I guess, is going to have less Adam's input, mostly because of Adam's schedule. But I'm just trying to get everybody excited about all the things going on in Pro's Land. Yeah, there's a lot happening. It's positive.
00:04:47
Speaker
ah There's always stuff to talk about, but this time, right now, there's just a lot going around. Right. so Let's go right into the album. yeah Yeah, let's not bury the lead. What do you think of the record, Eric? Do you like it?
00:04:59
Speaker
Well, it's definitely if someone put on Reddit, now they put a more negative spin, but someone said this is pretty unique in that. um I mean, I know that that CDs or albums are are you know leaked online and all that stuff, but this is unique in that half the album was released four years ago and two and two of the remaining five songs were released as singles, leaving only three new songs out of nine.
Themes and Influences in the New Album
00:05:23
Speaker
ah I like it a lot. I think it is... ah i it's In some ways, it's a continuation of what they've been doing in the Brian Deck era. Well, particularly some are somewhere under Wonderland, and I would also argue Underwater Sunshine.
00:05:37
Speaker
Kind of that theme that... I think there's been a theme of the band that started post-Saturday Night, Sunday Mornings. So I think that has continued. i also think it's a bit of a tribute.
00:05:50
Speaker
ah Like... tribute almost to some um bands in their past while also um putting their spin on it. Yeah, I do think it's... I think it's of a piece with the last ones, but I do think it's interesting that it felt like some of the writing felt a little bit different than the last... than the first Butter Miracle and Underwater Sunshine. Yes.
00:06:14
Speaker
I think in in particular, I think um With Love From a to z is kind of a different sort of song. I think Underneath the Aurora is a little bit different song. Underneath the Aurora, sorry. um And it it's... Well, in box... Even box...
00:06:28
Speaker
The writing is a little bit different and i like it. actually I think um in some ways I really kind of connect to some of this. I'm really getting first listen. Yeah. A little bit better than I connect to some of the ah more recent records ah from a lyrical perspective. actually ah um loved it with love from A to Z. um If you want to go hot take here. Yeah, let's do it. Here's my hot take with that on first listen. I was like,
00:06:54
Speaker
this might be their best song in 15 years. Like I might like it better than anything on, on, on um Wonderland, on Somewhere Under Wonderland and anything on the first. So, and again, that's just a little bit of hot take. That's a very hyperbole. I might eat those words, you know, but yeah um I really just kind of, I like, listen, I was like, that is what, that's kind of what I really like from this band. There was something about the,
00:07:20
Speaker
um the nature of the the lyrics there that really kind of connected to me. I think we've we've talked a little about this before, but I think Adam's lyrics going back to somewhere under Wonderland have gone in a direction that um it's a little more whimsical, right? Like Spaceman in Tulsa, I actually think is a good example of that and feels yeah like lyrically kind of like a continuation of the last couple of records.
00:07:42
Speaker
And clearly, and they've even said this in the GQ article, more third person, more storytelling in the whimsical, like you said, a little more abstract, but based upon reality, right?
00:07:55
Speaker
ah More maybe back to his, I don't know, back to his English major days or something. um But you're right. I see what you're saying. And I don't know if it's because it was um either partially or mostly a love letter to his girlfriend. And maybe that's part of it.
00:08:13
Speaker
I do think – I think it might be part of it. exactly That it is – does feel – whether it is exactly that or not, I'm not here to, again, speculate. The A to Z thing. Her name is Zoe. She said that, right? A to Z. yeah um Someone else pointed out that Adam – the beginning of – Adam Duritz, right, starts with an A and ends with a Z. Oh, that's true. With love for me. Yeah, but I think I read somewhere that it clearly was – yeah Yeah, reference as well. I joke, though, with some of this stuff because he seems so, like, i don't know how to say it, seems so happy singing it, but there's some, you know, lines where he kind of, you know,
00:08:48
Speaker
you know, rips on himself a little bit. And I was like, hey, this is as great of a love song as you're going to get. And it's very earnest. And this is this is what you're going get from Adam, which which I love. yeah It's fantastic. Which I think, again, we talk about like a lot of, again, what we think is some of their best songs. And there is that always that self-deprecating kind of aspect to it, you know, of like, it's unlucky for you to love me. I mean, we talked, we just finished, you know, talking about Hard Candy, right? And um how much we all loved like Up All Night and Why Should You Come When I Call with your songs that are basically like...
00:09:17
Speaker
what I love you, but why would you love me? you know? Yeah. you and you yeah well You get the impression. I think you're exactly right. But the difference is, and maybe because he's still in this relationship and seems to be very happy given, you know, what the GQ article was saying is that I think while he's doing it this time, i sense a smile when he's doing it too.
Musical Style and Influences
00:09:34
Speaker
Yeah. No, yeah. It's a little, it's that they're that self-deprecating aspect is a little bit less of an edge to it. Yes, exactly. But yeah, musically, I like that song. I really like the sort of um kind of bluesy Americana of it. That might be a good one way to put it.
00:09:49
Speaker
That's right. And I just, I really, I really just, that one just hit me. Just sitting out by the pool this morning, I was like, damn, that's, that's a good, that's a great song. And part of it, like,
00:10:00
Speaker
It's interesting. I feel like as when i when I enjoy a band, as we get later ah in their career, I always have a certain... i feel like I certainly lower my standards a little bit because we've all had bands that we loved that as they advanced, maybe those albums were less meaningful. I have a distinct recollection of seeing Goo Goo Dolls with Counting Crows in 2006, and they played some songs from their new record, and I was like...
00:10:25
Speaker
Man, I mean, i like some of those googly songs from the ninety s And I was like, this is a bummer. They played one song where I was writing lyrics. The first time I heard it, I was like, oh, the next lyric is going to be this because it was so obvious. was beat numbers song that I was like, this is, that's not great.
00:10:40
Speaker
um And I think. at At the very least, it really hits above that level of like, this is new and interesting work that adds to their catalog, and I'm sort of excited to hear it. I was actually kind of bummed they didn't... you know They played a festival recently. They didn't play a single song from the new record.
00:10:55
Speaker
um And i'm I'm hoping that they play... a chunk of them um this summer. I would love to hear, you know, a few songs. I mean, again, i um I know that I'm not the sort of average fan and I would love to hear them play a lot of the new record mixed in with the old songs.
00:11:10
Speaker
But even if it's a couple, two, three songs a night or something like that, I would be really interested to hear these songs bounce off of the other ones. Given that he was willing and Emmy was were willing to play the whole suite in that one tour, I've got to think they're going to play two or three. I think Spaceman Tulsa is going to be there, and I think they might rotate you know two out of the other four. I think they're going to play all five on the tour.
00:11:32
Speaker
that that's one i was just thinking about that. That's one it's one advantage to having the EP releases is I think there's a better chance of hearing them on the tour, right? If they had just released all nine songs, ah the way they do their shed tours now, they're not going to play the entire album.
00:11:50
Speaker
ah But they might play, you know, the majority of the EP, or in that case, the suite that used to play all of it. Hey, who do you think the, um I know Jeff Harkness yesterday joked it was you, but who do you think the reference to Chris is in the song?
00:12:05
Speaker
I think it's Chris Carrava from Dashboard, but I, that's just based the theory. Oh, that would be, that would make sense. I think that's a logical one. Yeah. Okay. i'm I'm with you on that. I like – because it's very obvious, right? The the Curtis, yeah you know, blows some trumpet, right? That's Curtis Watson. and And again, that's part of the charm too. You know, as talked about, like how some of these last records have sort of abstracted where you're kind of like these are maybe real people but they're kind of like – I don't know There's – again, there' it's sort of buried under abstraction a little bit whereas –
00:12:38
Speaker
This is – Curtis is like, we okay, we know Curtis Watson's played trumpet on their records. And again, it doesn't have be anything specific, right? just like Curtis, blow me a line.
Personal Connections and Lyrics
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah. um i mean And chris Chris, show me a sign. you know yeah um i click clearly Clearly, Eric, it means that he's listening to our podcast and I'm his favorite of the two us. Here's your sign.
00:13:00
Speaker
um I thought this was also – Van Morrison-y in a lot of ways, just the way he sings. And that kind of took me back you know to the full circle, which the full circle comes up a lot on this um album, at least three or four times, I think. He he looks back at the totality of his career.
00:13:16
Speaker
The last thing I'm going to... Well, maybe the last thing. I mean, I had some lines. I guess I'll stay away from the lyric, but some of them are so good about... you know, you know, I wrote this line to stay in your thoughts when I'm out of my mind and stuff.
00:13:27
Speaker
But one thing, you know you know, I like to tie things to my ah buddy from the pumpkins. And one thing that really kind of grabbed my attention was, i think in a way, this is also, i mean, it's a love letter, but also like something like,
00:13:44
Speaker
Again, you know, Adam's older, I think, um and he's older than his girlfriend, I think. And then women outlive men, um almost, you know, generally. And i think in some ways this is like, hey, if something happens to me, you'll always have this love letter. He kind of hints at that a little bit.
00:14:01
Speaker
And there's one song by, um yeah, the the Pumpkins guy, because also Adam, right, maybe never thought he would be in a long-term relationship. And Billy never thought he had kids, but he has one song called Birch Grove that basically he's like,
00:14:13
Speaker
I have kids now. You're going to outlive me by the odds. And this is kind of a love letter to you when I'm not around. you could this This song shows my personality. And I think Adam's going to be doing that a little bit as well. He'd have to confirm that.
00:14:26
Speaker
But, yeah, it's a great song. Okay. Then we got – Spaceman in Tulsa. Spaceman in Tulsa. I think my favorite thing um so far about Spaceman Tulsa is the – the the censored version on jimmy fallon the i'm a mama mama rock and roll star yeah well then right and then one time he's like mama i'm a rock and roll star right yeah because he's talking to his mom i you know i was funny i was gonna say that i am certainly not someone that's averse to cursing i for some reason i kind of well i guess i like both i kind of like the censored version i don't know do you have a take on that on on all the f-bombs i'm
00:15:03
Speaker
I'm with you there. I don't mind it. don't have a a personal thing against it. It just, don't know, something about the context of the song, it feels smidge out of place, especially since especially since it's in repeated and sort of like the chorus. It feels...
00:15:24
Speaker
the the the it it sort of juts up against the whimsy. Maybe that's sort of intentional. um But yeah, weirdly, I kind of like the censored version better. Maybe in part, I've got a seven-year-old and I'm like, I want to play this song, yeah but I don't want her running around dropping F-bombs.
00:15:38
Speaker
And in a way, it's the most kid-friendly song. do you remember even Jim um wrote on Facebook once something like, my daughter approves of like my daughter loves Spaceman and Tulsa. Now, don't know if he played for her the edited version. I think his daughter is about the same age, like seven or something or nine. But yeah,
00:15:53
Speaker
ah Yeah, I thought about that. the other you know Remember I had a theory about this too, that um i I recently, and I really don't listen to a lot of new music, maybe like some our audience, but I did go and finally buy Gang of Youth's CD because he loves talking about it. The most recent, I guess they only have three long plays.
00:16:13
Speaker
okay And I told yeah the audience, somebody said before, I lived in Australia a couple years. I love Australia. I think Australian... like pop and rock music is in a lot of ways superior to the U S but it doesn't get exported to us much. Um, for whatever reason, you know, every so often there might be somebody every so often Kylie Minogue, Natalie and Bruglia. Yeah, no, cause I lived there and I was like, these in sense do yeah exactly these songs would do so well in the U S. Um, but yeah, that album is
Explicit Language in Music
00:16:40
Speaker
great. And, but the reason I thought about it is that he, he curses quite a bit in his songs and
00:16:46
Speaker
And then i'm I'm just thinking of Adam, on like maybe just thinking like, oh, I could do this or could do that. he's like, you know, screw it. I haven't or F it. And that, yeah I don't curse much. And I want to say, hey, I'm a rocket roll star. So maybe that's why he did it.
00:16:59
Speaker
um Do you, i i'd love I actually think this is the true, i mean, I've mentioned a couple kind of spiritual successor through the years of Mr. Jones, but I think this is the true one Because this is it like, it's not just like I became a rock and roll star yesterday. It's like, yeah, I've been a rock and roll star for a while.
00:17:21
Speaker
And um I did it. And I think it's looking back at his career and maybe other people that want to be rock and roll stars as well. Yeah. Yeah, anyway. And, you know, maybe his relationship, right? Adam's mentored a lot of people and there's something interesting to the idea of um it's about, you know, being a rock and roll star and all about these other people who want to be rock and roll stars in the way.
00:17:43
Speaker
I'm sure that gives him a certain perspective, you know, now as he's talking to people who are trying to be rock and roll stars. And he he is one and now he's sort of that, you know, that elder statesman of a certain.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think it's a great song. I know some people criticize the, how do I say, like the poppy single songs, you know, more singly, right? If you think of hanging around in American girls or something like that. I think some people, sometimes people put that in a certain basket.
00:18:11
Speaker
I love Spaceman in Tulsa. I think it'll be fun in concert.
Artists' Evolving Relationship with Music
00:18:15
Speaker
um And there's some great lyrics. The one about the, I didn't write down word for word about the empty shell, like not knowing what I'm singing.
00:18:23
Speaker
um You know, that line, which I think even though he puts so much energy in his concerts, when you do the same song over and over, sometimes you're in this like kind of zombie mood where that that you're right.
00:18:36
Speaker
i mean, you know what I'm getting at, right? that That you're singing it and your emotion, but you're also kind of just going through the motions in a way like I don't even know what I'm doing. Right. And I don't know. It just really hit. Yeah.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah, and he's always talked about that a lot, which there was a time, it's like 2009 or 10, where he talked about how before that, it was always very important. he's like, i've i have to pour my emotions through how I'm singing and do these things. yeah And he was talking about at that time, he's like, well, but maybe I can also just have fun singing.
00:19:03
Speaker
And that could be a different thing. That could be a different feeling and maybe something I can embrace. But at the same time, if you're not trying to pour your emotions through it every day, you're just trying to have fun. yeah Maybe then you don't connect. that Some nights you just go out there and you're just kind of, well, it's I got this song. I don't know. um It's fun, I guess, to sing, but what am I even saying?
00:19:22
Speaker
probably So, you know, yeah it's got to be, it's an interesting, like, it is always interesting to track an artist's ongoing relationship with their music and how they're feeling about all of that. And so I think this is, it's a little bit of a touchstone in that for Adam over these last few years.
00:19:41
Speaker
um and Because this is kind of an era now, this sort of Butter Miracle era post, you know, they they took that hiatus after the 2018 tour. yeah um And then obviously because of COVID kind of didn't get to come back until late 2021, that gave like a three-year break.
00:19:57
Speaker
yeah And when they did when they came back, they'd released... the suite right and so it was like hey we've got the suite we're playing it and so this is now a new touring era for them or an era of the band and so it's a it's a new context for everything and i think that's a different he's all and he talked about that post-pandemic too just of of like the joy of like hey like i get to play these songs again for people that's exciting yeah and he did say and by the way to go on your point about that you want to hear some of the songs he did say not that he promised to play a certain amount but he goes that's his favorite part what did He said something along the lines of this he almost likes touring the most right after an album because he wants to play the new songs live. So he actually said that in some interview I saw.
Creative Process and Band Dynamics
00:20:34
Speaker
um By the way, one kind of, I don't want to say, this is not a deep dive take, but kind of our take of being such hardcore fans is that this is an interesting case, I think. And if you watched a video of the way they've made the music recently, I don't want to say now forever, but with mostly him, you know, Emmy, ah Millard and Jim,
00:20:55
Speaker
and And then i just Charlie comes in in a second stage. And then the third stage has been Dan and Dave. And I say that because Dan and Dave's guitar parts are fantastic in this, but you have to, if you kind of watch them live on the Jimmy Fallon and and kind of listen, know what they play and watch the video a little bit, therere it's fantastic, but it's also added on.
00:21:17
Speaker
you know what i mean? Like they they sprinkled their genius to something that was already established instead of helping them establish the bass line. So yeah it's just an observation more than anything. Yeah. You know, I also noticed during the Jimmy Fallon performance, it's interesting that that song has a lot of different pieces. There's a lot of parts where like one or or two band members are kind of like standing.
00:21:36
Speaker
Yes. For a sec, you know, like and obviously the chorus they're all playing, but there's sort of the way that song comes in is in different pieces. And it's sort of more obvious when you're watching them on stage doing it like that. All right. So let's let's go to train the boxcars. And I've just, again, a lot of these hot takes are seeing what people write in YouTube and Reddit and, of course, our takes.
00:21:57
Speaker
I guess someone posted recently, which I wouldn't have known, that the name and bit of the song, might it might be ah a tribute shout out to REM, who had a song. um What was it called? a Carnival of Sorts, parentheses, boxcars.
00:22:11
Speaker
boxcars And you know he was heavily, and yeah he talks about that REM might have been one of his, what what was it? Not that it was his biggest influence, but biggest influence once he knew he wanted to be ah songwriter kind of thing.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah, well, and I think especially in terms of like, you know he was they were starting out right in the mid 80s in terms of like bands where he was trying to make it. And I think the idea when he's always talking about like, want to be an indie artist. I want it to be as big as I could, but in the context of being kind of indie.
00:22:39
Speaker
And if that was your goal in 1986, 87, who would you look up to? R.E.M. is the answer, right? They're the interesting band that's still independent, but big enough to be that that's a career, yeah right? R.E.M. even at that point was obviously going to have a career.
00:22:53
Speaker
um So I think, yeah, they they were an influence. As i said, I think there is a very kind of like, it's not like an 80s song, like they're like they're synthesized, big synthesizers something, but there's a certain 80s-ness to the drive and the rhythm, especially in this ah um the transitions between like between chorus and verse there.
00:23:12
Speaker
I liked it. I liked it. all I liked it a lot sort of from that, that initial thing. It's also interesting. It feels a little social commentary e about the, you know, ah he i kids on the screens. and He admitted it is social commentary. And I was almost going to mention at the end, he mentions a lot of these songs.
00:23:29
Speaker
um have political tinges. And he didn't really say that he didn't do that before, but I think he really hasn't so much done that before, at least in a big way.
00:23:40
Speaker
um So definitely he mentioned boxcars, he said migrants and other, anyway, but he said yeah it's pretty, and it's something we could maybe talk about later, but you're right. we dive deeper into it.
00:23:51
Speaker
Yep, and the commentary watching the TV. um Someone made laugh. I just assumed he was very into – he's been very into the Boxcar Children book. you know He was just – maybe he has like a niece or something, was really working on you know yeah doing their reading.
00:24:05
Speaker
that kind like but And as I said, the REM had the thing Boxcar. Someone wrote on Reddit, which really cracked me up, and I kind of agree. They said – Oh, this reminded me of 1492, like, without the anger, or 1492 without something.
00:24:18
Speaker
um i mean, I don't really... The comment cracked me up, and someone also wrote this dislocation. i was thinking Cowboys. I was thinking Cowboys a little bit. um And yes, it's less... um I mean, those songs, all of those songs, especially 1492 and Cowboys, are about very sort of, like...
00:24:37
Speaker
aggressively disenfranchised feeling people. Like it's, there's like a sinisterness, like Boxcar doesn't feel sinister. um But it it does have a little bit of that flavor. It's one of the interesting things as bands, you know, i mean, ah you know, bands can do whatever they want. There is that that balance between like a band sounding like itself and a band trying to reinvent themselves constantly. And everyone does different things. and there is, the but there is that level of like, you can kind of hear for you know these
00:25:08
Speaker
There's this a type of sound. ah yeah There's a range of ah palette here, and and those sort of fit into that palette. Yeah, someone even wrote dislocation. Yeah, I agree. I actually like the angrier things a little more, but that's that's just me. ah But yeah, clearly, i yeah, I almost think that's a difference sometimes of somebody or an artist who... um Right. Maybe that time was having more mental health struggles or angrier and then now not as much. So have, you said that same baseline, that same palette, but from a different, um, psychological, uh, you know, vantage point, uh, later in life.
Emotional and Psychological Themes
00:25:42
Speaker
I mean, Cowboys is deranged, right? It's yeah about someone literally kind of slipping that. that I mean, that one is an earlier song that's kind of on the metaphorical end. I assume, yeah you know, like Adam hasn't wandered around with a gun in his hand.
00:25:56
Speaker
Um, yeah, You know, but like, it's a sort of the idea of like, how do you make impressions on the world and sort of feeling like you're not like slipping and this is yeah, this is less.
00:26:07
Speaker
um have that That was a different energy that was a mid 2000s Adam. yeah Have you been hearing the interviews where he? um I'm guessing you have, but about the, you know, the Dana Dana. Do you know about the thing where he's like, oh, that was coronavirus, coronavirus. Have you heard that? No, actually haven't missed one yet. it's kind of annoying because now every time I hear that riff, of course, at least for now, but he said that's where originally started. He would walk around his apartment like going coronavirus, coronavirus, and Zoe would get mad at him because he kept doing it for like two years.
00:26:39
Speaker
and then he eventually And then he eventually got a song out of it. And he and I think he said this was the hardest because it's a guitar based song, he couldn't completely finish it himself. He needed the other, he needed to be there basically. And, and, and and the percussion ah group.
00:26:55
Speaker
um Yeah. I'm so interested if anybody else gets writing credits to this song and I'll find out in a few hours when I see my CD. ah But you're absolutely right. It doesn't have like the eighties. See, sometimes people, when they think eighties, they think the synth, but I absolutely could hear this. Like,
00:27:10
Speaker
and the in in ah in a rock album of the 80s or in the soundtrack of an 80s movie. um And as I said, there was even part of me that I was thinking Tom Petty, Van... I even said I heard some Van Halen in the third. I know some people not... But especially... they mi They did something with his vocals a little bit, Adam, him on this one. So it was little bit... Okay.
00:27:32
Speaker
Then we got... Let's go to Virginia, our friend, which... um So my hot take on this is... It's kind of a Raining in Baltimore sequel because we have rain and a mid-Atlantic state and ah kind of a ballad. and But my real hot take is like, this is, I'm not saying he wouldn't have wrote Raining in Baltimore, but don't forget, this is like the same ballad. you know But back then when August was was was made, their lead guitarist was Bryson, who's a rhythm guitarist, where now they have a full band and this song
00:28:09
Speaker
feels like
Exploring Sonic Qualities and Influences
00:28:10
Speaker
a full band. Not that it's really rocky, but... Yeah. um Yeah, this one is interesting. I've been trying to, like... I actually went back in the middle of this one because I'm... um I like it sonically, and I just... I felt like I'm still... This is one where I'm, like, i feel like I'm still kind of processing the lyrics in the way... all the way into the song.
00:28:31
Speaker
um I don't know. that That was the one that stuck out for me. I'm sort of, like, I felt like I'm... I need to i need to sort of, like... hit but Let the words kind of sit with me a little bit. And I love brain imagery in general, which is why I like the Saturday Night, Sunday Mornings cover. There was one part, you know, he's done some callbacks in this album. Not as much. There's some references, you know, to Bobby and this thing. But there was one part that I laughed because he said like,
00:28:57
Speaker
I blew a kiss across and I'm like, he's going to say a wire, but he said like a garden. but So that, uh, I was wrong about that. you know, you know what ah influence I so felt on here a little bit. It's like if, if, um, and I love this song, but if James Taylor actually played with like a full band, um, I was getting his, i could, someone wrote on Reddit, which maybe would made me think of the James Taylor thing too. They didn't write that, but they said, it sounds like a timeless song that just got released.
00:29:26
Speaker
Right. It's not, yeah. Right. If I play this to my you know daughter and said, this was made 40 years ago, they would be okay. I could, you know i could see that. Yeah. So yeah. Anyway, I, like I also heard some Van Morrison on here too. You know, i know it's been said a lot, but I think some of these songs more than others he's done in the last couple of decades.
00:29:47
Speaker
Okay. So then we have under the Aurora, which, which I'm just going to say, i love, I'm very interested to see it live and it's clearly a Beatles influence. Yeah. And right they even make a couple British references, which I guess is also that too. um But anyway, you take?
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, no, I'm with you. And you the Beatles thing is interesting because it's Beatles influenced in the way that some of the the Recovering the Satellites songs are kind of Beatles-y in that they're not like, it's not pastiche, but it's that there's a certain quality to it um that kind of pulls through. And i like again, I like that song a lot too. Yeah.
00:30:26
Speaker
Again, I like – on the whole, right, sort of other than Spaceman and Tulsa, I sort of like – I feel like the lyrical thing is – like this is a strong set of lyrics that I want to spend more time with. And I like this sort of the overall – don't know, kind of tone and vibe of the lyrics here where it's – it's not –
00:30:49
Speaker
again i so Again, a little bit less of the third person, little bit more I, you, you know, yeah like directed, you know, speaking. But at the same time, it doesn't feel like um
00:31:03
Speaker
they feel like fresh and thoughtful topics for him. yeah i know sometimes one of the other things is artist age. Sometimes you get that thing where you're like, feel like you've written this song. I feel like you've written these words before. This is just, you know, kind of, and this is not that like it doesn't feel like he's treading on the same topics, which is interesting, which is great. That's right. I have another take later if we have a thing about him and his age and his lyrics. But one thing that Adam, I love him for is he will not rehash just the same thing. He always tries to challenge himself. Sometimes I think he gets in his own head and does it too. I mean, he basically said he only wrote this
00:31:38
Speaker
not only wrote the suite, but his main motivation behind the suite was like the competition with himself that could he, you know, partly motivated by Palisades park. And then the way the tall grass was going, that could he make all four songs together?
00:31:51
Speaker
um But you're absolutely right. ah Yeah. yeah so By the way, do you agree with me that I know that I, I'm pretty sure that if like, if you had to have the, all the crows members vote for their top 10,
00:32:07
Speaker
artists that I think the one they have the most in common is the Beatles. I'm pretty sure. i know, you know, Adam's been influenced. i Dan, I know Dan Vickery. That's his favorite band. um But I think Emmy and um I think Millard has mentioned. Anyway, I could be wrong, but I'd like to, part of me thinks that that's the band that they have the most in common.
00:32:27
Speaker
yeah I know, I know Adam was influenced by Bruce Springsteen, but did you see, maybe you didn't read the whole GQ article, but there was something about, did you, did you, Let's just throw this in, like of how one of the reasons Adam and Emmy became great friends. And then think basically Emmy watched him play at model society, which we've talked about here because he heard that he was great. And he said he didn't love the music was not his type of music, but he still thought Adam was great. And then later had just the deep talk about music with Adam, like at a party that night or something. I might be phrasing it wrong.
00:33:00
Speaker
And one of the discussions they got into, you know, a different artist and Adam was saying how great Bruce was. And and Emmy said, oh, i understand. But I don't think he's one of the best ones. And like something like a week later, a couple days later, Adam brought him all this Bruce music.
00:33:17
Speaker
And then like they bonded over that. and they've been great friends ever since. I just thought that was great. So that's great. Yeah, that seems like their relationship long ago, that they basically drop piles of records on each other just all the time. they're just They just come over with stacks. Like you can just almost see like that.
00:33:36
Speaker
and it seems like Adam actually went out and bought these particular ones, which really impressed him. me like He actually spent money on it. um Okay. So under the Aurora. No, but anyway, under the Aurora, I think, again, will be great live. And ah it just feels like a anthe a stadium, not a stadium, but you know what i mean, an anthem that you could play with a large audience.
00:33:54
Speaker
How did you feel? Did you listen to the whole suite after you listened to the first five? Not, no, not in the, no, I'm going to do that with the CD. And I know that, I was going to mention this, I know that it got remixed.
00:34:08
Speaker
i I listened to it this morning. i did not notice any dramatic differences in the mixes, although I do not have a great ear for that. Okay. witness i some Somewhere I read... Certainly, the songs are not unrecognizable.
00:34:21
Speaker
The songs sound like the songs. Okay. And maybe they did maybe they did some fresh mixing. It is interesting to me in that I think... Maybe in part because it's a suite. They literally played it you know end to end a bunch of times. We all saw them played. ah ah the All of us. Not all of us. But yeah those of us who are fans saw them play it a fair number of times.
00:34:40
Speaker
it It was kind of weird. it's I think it's going to be hard for me to not always just think of these as two EPs. um yeah Because there's just kind of the suite is the suite. And it sounds great. But it's it's not unconnected from the other stuff.
00:34:55
Speaker
I don't know. it if if i We had that for so long. I agree with you. You know, the EP, I think we were talking about this recently, like Bon Iver did the same thing with the EP full album thing recently, but that EP was from like October.
00:35:10
Speaker
You know, yeah and they and they put them together and it's two pieces. And actually, that's an interesting record. I've listened to that one a lot. It's probably my favorite record of the year so far. It's called Sable Fable. Sable is the EP. Fable is sort of the second half.
00:35:24
Speaker
But that's different because that one's sort of literally the – it's sort of like kind of like darkness and then like processing darkness basically sort of the second half. Okay. And so there's a real kind of interesting progression there of the sort of the EP in the second half.
Album Structure and Listening Experience
00:35:40
Speaker
Whereas here, these kind of feel... So far, at least, I don't feel the sort of the separation of the one. but And again, they put this they put the suite in the back half, right? so Yeah, that kind of surprised me a little bit, to be honest. Because I kind of think tall grass... I mean, I understand A to Z. I actually would have put A to Z as the closer...
00:36:02
Speaker
and have the suite lead it. um That's just me. But at the same time, if you do that, I think there's there's probably a strategy to that too. If you do that, someone picks up that record and they go, oh, I guess it's just the other thing with bonus tracks. and yeah yeah think yeah yeah But that's, I think, part of just the the time gap there is, and there's a lot of, again, i part of it i know is there's, you know I'm sure whoever they're working with on the release, there's strategy to this too, in terms of how people process this stuff and you know yeah No, you make an interesting point. and And I think some of the reviews I've read on the album were not
00:36:38
Speaker
aware, I mean, not, not, they were aware, but they didn't really listen to the suite before. So they would get a much different take. I agree. The hardcore Crows fans that bought the EP, which was not a physical media. So you had to download it.
00:36:49
Speaker
Yes, it was. There's a vinyl of that. Oh, vinyl. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yes, you're right. yeah With the August track on it too. Right. And, but I think they're going have, I think we're always going to separate those, those things in our mind that, that almost feels like a bonus add on instead of a different album.
00:37:07
Speaker
going to repeat my hot take here, which is that they should start playing the sweet songs separately in the concerts. I was struck again this morning listening to The Tallgrass. The Tallgrass is awesome and would be a great show opener in the classic sort of Crows like buildup of like dramatic openers.
00:37:23
Speaker
And they should play it. And I don't they don't need them to segue you know right into elevator boots. They can segue into... Mrs. Potter's lullaby or something, and it would be great. I am. That's anyway.
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah, I've been thinking that's my hot take there. but No, I've been thinking of you. I kind of think they're going to do that, but I'll be very curious if they actually do or not. um yeah But yeah I kind of think they might play like elevator boots.
00:37:48
Speaker
for instance. Elevator Bruce also great would be a great song in the middle of a show kind of separately. Bobby and the Rackings is a great closer. It's a great closer. It's a great, day exactly. um I think Tallgrass would be a good opener maybe, to be honest. i don't know how you feel. yeah Yeah. I think it's an opener. I think like in the way they've opened with like um ah had a Ballet d'Or,
00:38:10
Speaker
catapult um yeah when i dream of michelangelo they've even opened like yeah that in that sense of like but we'll we'll we'll have like a dramatic thing to open and then like a quiet thing into the loud thing yeah it's always like that like that too i hate to say right it starts with just that little thing and then it crescendos into like down on your knee you know whatever okay yeah by the way we haven't talked about and i know this is not supposed to be a review and ranking or anything i love talk some people do not like tall grass i love tall grass and partly because it's so original like i love these other songs we're talking about but you can hear influences right of either rem or i was saying james taylor or the beatles or whatever or whether their tributes or influences and bruce springsteen of course with bobby and the rat kings um but like tall grass i don't hear influence i hear counting crows complete original no one can do that but adam durrett's
00:39:02
Speaker
And then some of his lines about the shaking rabbit and, and of course the line about um broken when your children and you never get get it back once it's gone. i mean, that just melts me almost every time to this, this day. it's so Adam, I love it.
00:39:15
Speaker
It was all hard to me for you. I almost cried just saying it right now. Okay. um And then ah here's the one thing. So we'll just quickly mention about angel of the 14th street. I don't want to say a ton about it, but I do want to say what I brought to Chris and Jeff recently um that the,
00:39:30
Speaker
the Title now again Adams talked about how a lot of this is about society's treatment of women He's talking about that on a couple podcasts recently and that there's some political messages there um But the title of it angel of 14th Street is clearly a tribute the gang of youth song Angel of 8th Ave Which is on their most recent album now, I don't know why or if they just did it as a friendly thing to each other they were and I guess technically Adams was first because i think this was released 21 and i think any use 22 but it probably before that if and they were about at the same time and they love each other as i said adam and um i now forget their el lead singer's name but they talk about more of i don't know if it was an older brother or mentor father relationship kind of thing so yeah
00:40:19
Speaker
Also, I love 14th Street, one of my favorite spots. If you're going somewhere in New York, I love i would direct you to 14th Street and start from there. it doesn't forget that five No, I love 14th Street. And doesn't 14th Street also border Washington Square? Isn't that the top border? It's a little bit – no, it's a little bit north of it. The top border of Washington Square is like I think The bottom is West 4th Street, but the top is like eight or something like that. You can walk – Union Square that borders 14th Street? Yeah, is Union Square. And you could, if you go though, if you walked like 14th and like fifth Avenue or something, you can walk kind of straight down into Washington
New York City References in Lyrics
00:40:58
Speaker
Square. So it's it'd be a natural place where you would just sort of pop up and out and
00:41:02
Speaker
um Great donut place on 14th and 7th, the donut pub. but If you're in the city, go hit the donut pub. They're open very, very late. So after a show, go go grab some donuts. It's also where um Irving Plaza is.
00:41:17
Speaker
It's 14th, kind of tucked over on Irving. um I don't know. i anyway Oh, I love that. air No, I absolutely agree. and And also, of course, near Washington Square, not too far, is Sullivan Street.
00:41:29
Speaker
Not too far So you could get down to there as well. Yeah, I think some of those places are where they shot some of the. um And I know Adam doesn't live too far away, right? Because he lives in. Why am I forgetting the neighborhood he lives in?
00:41:43
Speaker
I think near the Flatiron Building. He doesn't live in Soho. I'll think of it in a second. I thought if that it was Boston. I think he lives closer to Union Square, but not too far away. wow I'm just forgetting the neighborhood.
00:41:55
Speaker
the um Maybe Gramercy, is it? Yeah, I can't remember now. It could be Gramercy. yeah the um But, okay. So, um yes, we love Angel of 14th Street. We're in New End. it anyway We don't know. I don't know where the guy lives. we just you Someone mentioned something somewhere. But, yeah. But he does he does sometimes mention the neighborhood. So, it's not me. Yeah. yeah So, um then we got... All right. And then we got ah Elevator Boots. I'm not going to say much. of but obviously, this is... No, we'll review that. I feel like it's hard to... it's I think but our takes are on these new songs. The other ones.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah. You know, we'll get to you when we finally, eventually do... that whole record. I guess the yeah that'll be an interesting question for us when we get there. Do we, do we review this whole record? Yeah. Or do we review the two pieces? Probably. Oh, that's it.
00:42:37
Speaker
But how do you break up this? We will debate. We'll, we've got a while before we have to debate that Eric. Can I mention though, for Bobby and the Rat Kings, besides what you said, it's a fantastic, I think if the, if the crowd knew these songs, it would be a great closer.
00:42:51
Speaker
um And it is a great closer when they do it, but that clearly, and I had other people had to advise me of this. but the name bobby and the rat kings um which if you watch the video seems to be just some fictional band that they kind of cover right and and they talk from their standpoint but the name of it is clearly a tribute to what is it the boomtown rats oh um because you have the rat kings and the lead singer of that man was bob it was bob so that's the bobby and the rat kings yeah there you go um yeah and i think even one of the songs kind of sounded like it so
00:43:25
Speaker
Anyway, um but did I mention what we did A to Z that that was because you were talking about how different that song that I think Adam said he wrote the other four first and then oh that the interesting a to Z was clearly because I think that's where it was. Oh, it might only be eight songs, the two suites.
00:43:41
Speaker
And then he added the A to Z. The ninth one. Near the end. um Okay. um i just wanted to know if I had any other just last ah things about the album. I've said this before. I think for whatever reason, since Hard Candy, I think whoever does the mix makes sure that Charlie's parts are very...
00:44:03
Speaker
loud and and and and and easy to spot. And I think it it it shines how great he is. um So the last three or four albums, Underwater Sunshine, Somewhere Under their Wonderland, and All the Butter Miracle, you can hear Charlie's Genius at Work, or I think in some of the other albums, it was a little more hidden, and you have to really pay attention. yeah um Charlie's aging like fine wine.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah. he I want someone to tell me of a better piano player in a mainstream band that than him. I could be wrong. um Yeah, this is the only thing I was thinking. We've talked about this before.
00:44:36
Speaker
um i'm not here to comment good, bad or indifferent, but kind of hinted this is, you know, a new era or sorry, a recent era of the Crows. um very ah rocky, um more Emmy-influenced Emmys is is more there during the songwriting process and and more of a key of the band. And that Brian, they've now used the same you know producer for two and a half albums. I mean, one interesting thing, which I kind of forgot is when Brian Deck first worked with them, he did the Sunday morning side, which was the more relaxed side. And then since then he's been on all the rockers.
00:45:11
Speaker
Yeah. Well, cause his, I mean his background, right. Was he like fruit bats and stuff like that. Okay. Very kind of indie folk kind of things. um So I think that's what inspired them to use them for Sunday mornings, but then, yeah.
00:45:23
Speaker
Yeah. And we talked about the third, the, you know, writing more in the third person. And I said a little more politics, um which i might be new.
Subtle Political Themes
00:45:31
Speaker
And, and I, and I think um the credit is subtle. It's subtle. It's very, it's, it's just more getting, I think it's a little bit more, this is how I'm feeling about stuff. And I want to get some of that energy out in the world. It's not like a political song in the sense of,
00:45:48
Speaker
you know what Which, i again, I think is, well, everyone should do what they need to do and feel they need to express themselves however they want. I would never tell anyone, like, don't write a political song. um But I do enjoy when it's a little bit more like getting those ideas, dropping those ideas into songs and letting them sort of...
00:46:04
Speaker
resonate Yeah, I think it's more just what he's been thinking about, you know, as as the world has become more political and he's older, right? And, yeah, in a lot of ways, just some of these so social issues, I guess I just want to say. And some of it are more generally, like he talked about, you know, there there might be a harassment of a certain group, ah social group, but at the, you know, the or, or or but but the feeling of being isolated might apply to that group, but it could apply to individuals in a variety of other settings. We're feeling that you're, yeah, that you don't connect with other, with other people.
00:46:34
Speaker
um You know, my only, I just have two two thoughts. these are I don't think any of these are negative. Just thoughts I'm thinking about reflecting on the Crow's career.
00:46:45
Speaker
And we said the albums are now sparsed out or spaced out you know much wider. Chris and I were talking in the pre in the pre-show, like, when will the next one? Because if you want if you don't count Underwater's Sunshine, you know they went from releasing every three years to like every six years.
00:47:02
Speaker
And now this was 11 since... since wonderland if you're counting yeah but i think i i don't i couldn't disagree because i i feel like it was i think of it as it's 11 but it's really seven and four okay right it's really it's really those two i i think and i think that's part of why i don't want well finish your point i feel like i'm i'm responding because i know what you're saying yeah i guess you're right no that was just right so you might be that might be a different take right so maybe you can i guess part of me is like oh if you're
00:47:34
Speaker
expecting a full length album it could be longer and longer but one thing i was thinking of and i i understand adam's challenge you know at one point he said hey i don't need to always write about me all the time um not 29 anymore yeah um yeah i want to keep some he definitely has said in the past i want to keep some stuff private um i think he wanted to challenge himself by being more of a storyteller um There's a little bit of me, and I think some of this does come across. And again, this album's been out for less than 24 hours, so I might catch things. So a to Z, I think, has some of this.
00:48:06
Speaker
And also, well, anyway, looking back at his career as as a rock star, you know, my mom, I'm a rock and roll star. There's a little bit of me that was like, oh, I almost want to hear him. get a little bit angsty as a 60 year old and, and the topics of, of mortality and grow, you know what
Mature Themes and Future Collaborations
00:48:25
Speaker
I mean? and it Or maybe how people have drifted apart and how some have been loyal.
00:48:29
Speaker
I almost wanted to hear some of, I almost want to hear some of that before, you know, in the next album or as crows move on to their career. Cause it's different topics, you know? um It might be there. I don't know. i'ding ellen That's why I said it might be there. Maybe it's a little more clever. Yeah. Maybe like,
00:48:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think it just we've got to we we need our time to pick apart these lyrics and and yeah sort of let them sit with us. But you know even getting we were talking about with Boxcar, there is some of that angsty feeling.
00:48:58
Speaker
um yeah and And I think with with with From Love Made a Z, there's a certain sense of a reflectiveness maybe on ah these some the certain things that don't change about who he is and how he feels about these yes Yeah, I think even Virginia, I heard some of that too, to be honest. So that was just a little bit of of me. ah You know what I mean? Because I think, you know anyway, it was just that's more of a reaction of of have some answers that he has given in interviews. And then my my thing would be like, okay, but ah you know.
00:49:29
Speaker
you're not dating around anymore or whatever. And you know, it's going to be a little different. um Okay. is it yeah i mean That's the thing. If, if, if he was still writing songs about this girl made me sad yeah at at his age, I would be very disappointed. There are some artists who I feel like I'm like, look, I love your music, but like, you know, at a certain point, yeah you know, if it's not, it can't always be them.
00:49:53
Speaker
It's been, 25 years of them, it might be you. You know? And so I think that's... i' I've been very pleased. One of the things I've liked about the sort of evolution of the band over these last 15, 20 years is that i think I do think Adam's writing has sort of appropriately matured yeah over time um yeah in a way that I think is is it's great. I think that's... um i wouldn't want him I wouldn't want him to write Goodnight Elizabeth again.
00:50:21
Speaker
Like, yeah that's not... That's right. Do you, um my last thing, just as more of the career retrospective thing that i thought about listening this album is it got to what, and I know we got, we did get one ballad on here. the I wouldn't call Tallgrass a ballad. So I think, I think original song's a ballad.
00:50:40
Speaker
um But it made me think that, remember what Jeff said recently about maybe one reason the one, was well liked besides being a popular Taylor Swift song is that it was him at the piano. He didn't really do that. And it's it's funny because I do want him to grow and I've always defended. I love that every album has a new feeling and stuff.
00:50:58
Speaker
There's always a part of me though that maybe for like, you know have one song maybe be the ballad, you know, or or classic piano battle. And there's a little bit of me that thought I love Emmy's and influence and I love the the the sound that he has bring as they've changed direction.
00:51:13
Speaker
But then there's a part of me that thinks, What would happen is if he did the same thing and for one song fly Bryson in and say, hey, it used to be just us two. Let's do one song together and how that would come up. um Yeah. That's just a little bit of me. Yeah.
00:51:30
Speaker
ah Here's what I'll say that also yeah is that it doesn't necessarily have to be a – a dual choice like that. Like, right there's nothing that stops him from doing a session in which he's like, hey, here, or even, I guess, theoretically releasing the demos. I don't know they sound or whatever. But I would love to hear, I mean, he wrote presumably a lot of these songs at the piano.
00:51:50
Speaker
I would love to hear what the piano version of Elevator Boots sounded like. And that doesn't have to replace the final version. um yeah you know one of the great things about counting crows is that there's all these versions of some of these songs where you're like i can pick the rain king that suits me on a on a day-to-day basis if i feel like it yeah um i would love to hear i but that's one thing i'd love to hear them do a little bit more they've done a little bit of coos they've done spaceman and tulsa acoustically together did tall grass and elevator boots like that on the other record but i just i think it would be fun to hear things like that and i would i'm hoping
00:52:26
Speaker
that maybe we get some of that as part of these ongoing um promotional things or that, you know, just ah let's hear yes's let's hear what the tall grass sounded like just to add him at the piano. I don't know. yeah Maybe it's like look you'd be like, that's even better. I don't know. Or just different, just different, and interesting in a different way into the song.
00:52:43
Speaker
you know One interesting thing about the GQ article is mostly focused on him. And I, again, i' have to I'd have to reread it. It's very long and I'm so rushed with stuff yesterday. But like it almost seemed like the author was there for a couple, like almost stayed there or was there a couple of days in consecutive? I'm not sure. And then at some point, his girlfriend and the publicist were there, but then sometimes they weren't.
00:53:02
Speaker
It mostly focused on Adam, but they did interview a little bit Emmy. so I'm not sure if he just showed up for a little bit. And then there were a couple of lines from Dan, which seemed a little random. Maybe they called him on the phone.
00:53:13
Speaker
one One thing that really struck me with that was that Dan... It sounds like Adam gave Dan, like, and think about Emmy wasn't as involved in the writing then, or maybe not involved at all, but with Recovering was almost as much Dan's album, the hard stuff. They said, like, Adam told Dan, like, have your way. Like, you make this rock. You're our lead guitarist. you're the You're the rock and roll guy. So I thought that was...
00:53:40
Speaker
kind of a neat little nugget for Crows fans. and And because he said something like, oh, it hasn't really happened since. I'm not saying it was a negative way, but the the way that the songwriting hasn't been the same.
00:53:51
Speaker
um What about that new nugget we heard yesterday? Because one theme we've talked about is why don't they play Amy Hit the Atmosphere? And Adam has acknowledged it's because he would have to relearn the piano parts.
00:54:05
Speaker
And he is, as of right now, too lazy to do so. He didn't say he wouldn't do it. But he said that's why. He said actually the band has asked him to play Ooh, I hadn't seen that went the interview yet, but yeah. um Yeah, guys, come on.
00:54:20
Speaker
You guys have played, as we as we established and broke down with Dave Lowry, right? Like they've played like every song from that record pretty regularly other than Amy Hit the Atmosphere. Yeah, and more recently stayed away from All My Friends, which is probably my favorite, so i want that one back. Let's get that one back you guys, come on.
00:54:36
Speaker
Yeah, so so but yeah, that article fills some gaps in the history. There was just a couple things because we have things. Oh, Jeff talked about this. I just, it's something talk about more later, but... i I knew that Adam was upset about the sales of Wonderland and that he was upset about the impact, but he kind of hinted in a couple
Band's Struggles and Recognition
00:54:55
Speaker
interviews recently. He he was kind of upset at at at a lot of the recognition post-August, both the critics and also even recovering. He wasn't happy with the sales of recovering.
00:55:05
Speaker
And that sold, was it 2 million or something like that? I think. Yes. Yeah. yeah um But that was interesting because I, because most people, Yeah, I understand feeling that way, you know, about hard candy and stuff, etc.
00:55:19
Speaker
But um anyway, um that was it. Some other things that we could talk about later. The author really, you know, we just did the hard candy review and the author really made a point about how.
00:55:32
Speaker
kind of almost what Jeff was saying, but you know that you know that Big Yellow Taxi was like an accidental single, right? It was almost kind of like something thrown together. and remember, he wanted it to be more of a hip hop thing. but then it um And then i I forgot that, was it Village Voice named it as the worst song of the 2000 decade? Or or a Rolling Stone, or somebody did. I remember hearing that before.
00:55:53
Speaker
And that he thought that that really, for at least in the short term, hurt their kind of the image in both the public. They go, oh, that's the kind of band they are now. And then the critics also didn't, right, they weren't looking into the deep dive of of Good Night LA and and and yeah and up all night. Instead, they were focused on that, which was not even supposed to be a single.
00:56:16
Speaker
Right. Also, I mean, you know, Ashley Simpson released records around that time. Like, let's not yeah let's not get too up in our, you know. but that ah Although that was also part of it, it's it's a generational thing. That was also the the era of the time.
00:56:30
Speaker
Like, um I remember at the time reading yeah a lot of this magazine, Blender. um which was is great in some ways because it it did like very, it asked artists a lot to like pick out different songs. I learned about a lot of music reading that magazine.
00:56:45
Speaker
They would do whole discography reviews of ah yeah artists, right? It was great in a lot of ways, but it was also snarkier. It was also that tone of that early 2000s, that sort of hipstery tone of like, well, this is the this is the crappy record. This is the one where they were doing, you know, like. Yeah, yeah. and i think um you know I think that it just was sort of an unfortunate timing in that regard. the sort of That song was a hit, but it was sort of people were snarky about it and it was kind of, yeahp I don't think it was a helpful thing to the image of that band. But it was interesting. I think, again, the real ones, don't know, the real ones never went away. I was actually talking, them um
00:57:24
Speaker
ah Here, the reason why I sound like I do and not like I normally do is because I'm at a music festival with some friends, a band Cordova, who are playing a festival down in Mexico. And the lead singer, Joe Firstman, who's – we go back a long ways.
00:57:37
Speaker
he I just happened to mention something actually about our podcast last night. and he was like, oh, I actually opened for those guys at like the Basilica Block Party in like 2004. And he was like, man, they were – great like i was like i thought i liked this but all those songs are like they were so good and i'm it's like not like someone where we're sitting down chopping up about like counting crows records but he was like yeah man good and Oh, and then Joe's a songwriter and he cares. And it's like, that was one of the, there's a real, recognizes real aspect.
00:58:05
Speaker
Yeah. That was one of the authors point too, that nowadays a lot of people, I guess, admit that they were Crows fans or influenced by the Crows fans. And he got the impression there was like a ah short period of time, maybe around hard candy and shortly after where people didn't mention it in much. And of course, people like me were always going to say they love the Crows, but, um,
00:58:23
Speaker
that there might've been this, that like that was like, there was some backlash after August, but there might've been some backlash from around that time too. ah And that anyway, that was kind of the author's point. And then the author was telling people they were, he was interviewing Adam and all of a sudden everybody's like, Oh, I love Adam. He's great. He influenced me. They're one of my favorite bands ever.
00:58:40
Speaker
um So he made a point about that. I mean, usually the authors don't get into that. Like I tell my friends and other band people about who I'm interviewing and they gave a positive reaction.
00:58:51
Speaker
And I thought that was really telling both about um and I feel bad for Adam in in that way. I really do. i So, yeah, no, it's a it's a mean,
00:59:02
Speaker
Again, I think ah you know Jeff's book does kind of a great job of sort of tracking some of this stuff of like the weird hand they were dealt post-August at times of like how people responded to them. And it was more like the world changing around them than them changing for the most part. Obviously, the band has evolved. and But like a lot of it was just...
00:59:25
Speaker
I don't know, so much weird energy because yeah because Jeff did the research and was reading like all these concert reviews and just the weird, how weird those reviews were. And I think Adam and Adams talked about it. He's like, oh yeah, for years, like I couldn't read a concert review without someone bringing up who I've dated and not just talking about like whether they whether they like the songs or not.
00:59:44
Speaker
Yeah. yeah it was It's all very buried in that and not and they couldn't just be like, I liked the show or I didn't like the show. you know Yeah, or he's mopey and wants us to feel bad for him. It worked for me, you know. Which interesting. It's like, it's a hard, I don't know. i And again, I think it's so maybe it's just a more evolved thing in certain ways.
01:00:03
Speaker
um well there maybe Or maybe also, Eric, it's that we're our age and we talk to people who are... you know, more evolved. i don't know what, I don't know how 22 year olds talk about music now. but i don yeah I don't want to claim that the world has has improved, but it's possible that my, my, it's that my, just my, my feed has improved. My social media feed has improved. Yeah. That's funny. I don't see snarky shit anymore. Cause I don't surround myself with those people. I, I surround myself with deadheads. They either love things or they just, or they're, it's just not for them, you know?
01:00:32
Speaker
we'll we'll We'll briefly, before we wrap this up, we'll briefly just give a plug to the the to the to the to the tour coming up. Although, one little trivia thing I wanted to mention too, and this is going to seem like I'm being gossipy, but I'll tell you why I actually said it, is near the end of the article, gq article, it said that he met his girlfriend on Tinder. I only say that because he mentions Tinder in the song Bobby and the Rat Kings, right? It goes from Tinder to Cinder.
01:00:59
Speaker
Or she goes from Tinder to Cinder. I just didn't know if that had some reference to how he mentioned her. And that's why, because people are like, oh, that's kind of funny. He mentions Reddit and Tinder in his, ah in an album, you know, or in a song. yeah Okay. So boy, talk about, and talk about, so how old he's 60, right? So Adam's 60 or 61. Yeah.
01:01:17
Speaker
Or he's going to turn 61 this year. He's going to turn 61 in August.
Tour Logistics and Expectations
01:01:20
Speaker
Yeah. So um I say that, and then some of the band members are older, that, boy, do they have a tour that he is going to have to rest a lot and make sure he you know doesn't sing 1492 every night or Hanging Tree. It's a long tour. But at the same time...
01:01:37
Speaker
You know what I mean? They've got, i mean, actually, I'm very curious to see sort of the set times if they're going to play. and It's a long tour. Are they going to go two hours, more like an hour 45? You know me, if they want to give 15 extra minutes to the Gaslight Anthem, they are welcome to do that.
01:01:50
Speaker
i'm I'll take as much Gaslight Anthem as I can get to. This is one of the few tours where if both bands played like 90 minutes, I would be stoked. um the The one time I would take less, quote unquote, less crows.
01:02:02
Speaker
um i again i think the quotes will play a pretty long headlining set and gaslight will play something more like what dashboard played um a couple years ago but um because i'm excited i love them both you know did you say gas slates in your top five bands oh they're i mean second theyre they're okay of of of like modern bands i i sort of try to chunk it right because it's like it's hard to compare like anyone to like you know the grateful dead and jimmy hendrix and stuff like that but it's right of of bands that have really existed and been are sort of like it's my bands they're number two it's them it's it and it's brian fallon to adam durris you know what i mean brian fallon i think is a spectacular songwriter okay um they also have interesting histories too you know and i think they have i would love to hear a dual interview actually with the two of them because i think they have a sort of a lot in common in that trajectory and that like okay you know
01:02:50
Speaker
it was their second record, but Gaslight had a huge second record, the 59 sound, but they, they were so crystallized by that record. They played with Springsteen. They sort of hit this certain thing. And then there was a lot of like, caught like you couldn't, again, you couldn't read and an interview or and a review of a Gaslight Anthem show in 2010 without a reference to, you know, they played with Bruce Springsteen. They're from New Jersey, right? It's like, yeah and it was sort of, he had this thing of like, you know,
01:03:18
Speaker
I love the, you know, i'm I'm a lot more than a guy who just Bruce happened to like. I mean, not that I don't love Bruce, but like, geez, like, I'm a person with like opinions and I write other things too.
01:03:30
Speaker
um And they wrote some records that I think are great that are underrated in part because they're not, they' you know, in the way that certain things like, well, it's not August. And like, well, it's not the 59 sound. So I think they have actually i would I think they've got a lot to talk about and I would love to hear a dual interview with them about sort of like those that those feelings of having those big moments early and then what that looks like, how you sort of process that over time.
01:03:55
Speaker
yeah no but that's I'm stoked. you'll you'll i think I think everyone's going to have, maybe not everyone, I don't know, but someone won't like it, but I think you're all going to have a great time with the Gaslight Anthem. it by It's But as we get to the tour and and we see what songs they play and if they remember the last couple tours and we understand it has to do with age and selling out the sheds and everything, they kind of play like 50% greatest hits. And then remember that what the Butter Miracle original tour, there wasn't a lot of room for extra songs, right? Because if they played... because you get the whole suite in there. Yeah, and you get the whole suite and then you kind of... what do we I forget, we did the numbers once. There was like four songs that they rotated in and out or five, but even some of them were
01:04:34
Speaker
yeah popular Like even some of the ones they were rotating in and out was like a Sullivan Street, which is clearly more well known than like, you know, carriage or something like that. Yeah. Things like that. So it'll be interesting take because, because again, he's been saying more in interviews kind of when he was talking about the how he kind of wished that.
01:04:54
Speaker
Yeah. I don't, I don't know how to say that, you know, maybe that people, understood what he was trying to do and his genius, which I think I do get it. Cause I think it is, his albums are genius, ah a little bitter about it, but also um he wishes more like as a side to that, he wishes more people appreciated the deep dives. That's funny. Mrs. Potter still gets people going, but he, in particular, he said something like he thinks good night LA, which is funny. He doesn't play that live, but that would, that that should get a huge reaction.
01:05:27
Speaker
ah The other one he mentioned recently, like he thinks um or he wishes that when he get because he's so proud of Palisades Park, that when he starts singing that, he thinks the fans should go nuts because it's a great song, even though it wasn't a huge hit.
01:05:41
Speaker
And that's what people do at the Bruce saw ah show. So it's interesting because I know they're trying to sell tickets and some people just want to hear the same songs all the time. And and then other people like us just and are loving by nature, though.
01:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, and also by nature, though, with like with these sheds, right? like you You are selling to casual fans. Yep. though If you look at the percentage of like what they could sell if you were... Because they've done theater tours, you know what i mean? so clearly there is like there's a sort of a more, call it hardcore, it's fair, like ah a little more dedicated fan base. That's probably in a town. It's probably, call it 4,000 or 5,000 people, that the group that would fill the theater. Yes. But then you go from 5,000
01:06:21
Speaker
13, some of these sheds with the lawns, right? They can see 20,000 people, you know? You're exactly right. That's kind of your gap between like the dedicated bands and the people who are like, ah Counting Crows are coming to town. Maybe I'll go check that out.
01:06:33
Speaker
I'll go hang out on the lawn and listen to
Concert Strategy and Fan Engagement
01:06:35
Speaker
them. because You're exactly right. And I think part of it is like, I don't know, like, They've made the choice to to play those types of shows. I don't – again, I don't know the financials and what that looks like and whatnot. But like, ye yeah, maybe they've kind of felt like, yeah, we want to do these bigger shows. But yeah, we also recognize that means we want to – we're go to have to play Mr. Jones or we think – maybe you think we should play Mr. Jones. I don't know yeah um what their – I would love to ask them actually about that. i would love to talk to them about their feelings.
01:07:03
Speaker
evolved feelings about that song at this point, given that they play it every night now and didn't first just that it's a, it's a change, right? They play, they did not play that song every night for 20 something years, right? They, they were studious about, they would play it, but it was not every, it was, you were not guaranteed to hear Mr. Jones. yeah And if you go back basically since COVID, you're guaranteed to hear Mr. Jones, you show up, you're hearing Mr. Jones.
01:07:27
Speaker
Yeah. And that's a change. Yep. Yep. That's a change, and tonight i'm curious I would be curious just to hear what the um but the feeling change was about that. that's a it doesn't even have to be – I think you know also sometimes I think fans get very like the the cynical thing of like, well, they're doing it for the you know for the casuals. I don't know. Maybe they just felt like – I think Adam said – When they came back from COVID that he was just sort of like so happy that people showed up that he was like, I don't want to disappoint people. He had that kind of energy to it. Well, there also could be – and then you could also argue that if he wants to – let's say the suite. If he wants to expose the suite to the most people, you lure them in with the greatest hits.
01:08:06
Speaker
And then you say, hey, this is the suite. And then and then and then ah a certain percentage of the shed and its percentage of a higher base number goes out and buys the suite because they like it, even though they originally went for Omaha.
01:08:19
Speaker
So that could be the case too. So it's interesting. And it'd be interesting if Adam would ever want to, again, do one of those shows that you said you went that had like the three back to back and they didn't play any the same songs. Oh, at the Wellmont theater when they opened the Wellmont theater with three shows in a row where they didn't repeat a song. ever do that again? would be on a plane in a second.
Intensive Touring Schedule and Fan Interaction
01:08:44
Speaker
So, um yeah, so 43 stops in the U.S. with Gaston Anthem. 26, and then I think they only take a one month break after that. I can't even imagine. And then they're going to do 26 stops in Europe. So that, it is a busy year.
01:08:58
Speaker
So ah for Crows. We're going to have a lot of shows to listen to and break down. and So please go watch them. we'll I'll be there. And Chris will be there at a couple of them. We'll be back with all of the other news as well. I'll also do yeah a shout out to... And a special interview coming up. Just FYI. Yeah, we have more interviews. We have some ah good ideas for shows. If you have ideas for us for a show or other tips or anything, SullivanStreetPC at ProtonMail.com.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:09:30
Speaker
Street, spell out, PC for podcast.
01:09:33
Speaker
And, uh, we'd love to hear from you and a shout out to Emmy who I was able to talk to a little bit before the, um, uh, the Kobe Brown show, uh, uh, show in LA.
01:09:43
Speaker
yeah had to talk and, uh, he, he said some nice things about the podcast and it was really good just to, uh, um, yeah, I think it was only the second time. And i actually got to talk to him for a little bit. The first time I met him, I talked to him for like five seconds as I was stumbling drunk.
01:09:58
Speaker
So. ah have ah So anyway, thanks for listening to our first Hot Take episode on Sullivan Street. And we'll be back later this year with all sorts of updates from what's going to be a busy year with Counting Crows. Thank you, Chris, for joining.
01:10:12
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you.