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Channels
23 Plays17 days ago
We all learn our channels in school, it is something that we get quizzed on constantly throughout our education. The meridians are the foundation of any acupuncturists knowledge; but how sturdy is this base and what can we do to flush out our understanding of the Jing Luo.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Year of the Wood Snake
00:00:09
Speaker
Welcome back and Happy New Year everybody. Was last year crazy for you? Because it was supposed to be... The year of the young wind dragon certainly was a year of growth. So this year, in the year of the wood snake, try let go of something. Shed a little skin. Make room for something else. Like this podcast.
Exploring 'Channels' in Acupuncture
00:00:34
Speaker
Alright, so this year we're start kicking off with a podcast on channels. Do you know your channels? Do you know them as well as you thought you did? And is even what you learned them as correct? Find out all about that and more on this week's episode.
00:00:54
Speaker
This week, Voices on the Mountain. What are we talking about? Channels. Some good old channels cover the whole body. The discussion really started, oh man, years ago.
Misconceptions About the Stomach Channel
00:01:05
Speaker
I think we were in a clinic forum one day and Steven asked the class, you know, like what, where does the stomach channel start?
00:01:13
Speaker
And I smartly responded, oh, it starts at large intestine 20. You know, welcome fragrance, the end of the large intestine channel. And Stephen's like, what? I'm like, dude, Stephen, I know this. We get quizzed on it all the time. Like, trust me, it starts the large intestine ends. And he was like, no, and I'll prove you wrong. And quote of the classics. And that's when I realized that, you know, our our foundational channel knowledge just isn't quite as strong as we might have hoped.
00:01:44
Speaker
It's true. But I will say, I immediately appreciated your your knowledge of the point name. So welcoming in fragrance, well played there, well played. Because a lot of people don't know those. And if you don't know those, you don't know how to use them fully, right? Sometimes at all, but sometimes fully.
Chinese Terms in Acupuncture
00:02:00
Speaker
Yeah. That is my little attempt to chip away at learning some Chinese. Oh, heck yeah. Chip it away, man. Yang Xiang. Very close. Ying Xiang.
00:02:10
Speaker
yin shang. Yeah, yin, like y-i-n-g, kind of like yin nutritive, but different character, different meaning. It sounds like written with the same four letters. And then so in just even on this prep to to do talk about channels, um I started describing channels based off of going from point A to point B or point, you know, the first one to the second one.
00:02:35
Speaker
and We ran into another issue where ah points aren't classically indicated to be on channels. Do you want to go into that? Yeah. I think so this is a tricky one. There are certain points that just come up again and again on the channels, but the vast majority of every one of the major 12 channels, the organ channels,
00:02:55
Speaker
are not described by the points that are on them.
Importance of Understanding Channels
00:02:58
Speaker
And this is a really interesting point because I think it gets to an underlying and very big point that people think, well, I know points, I don't need to know channels. No, absolutely not. In fact, I think Dr. Guo said it the best. He's one of my Well, anyone listening to this probably knows by now, but he's one of my biggest influences for acupuncture. Dr. Guo said in Chinese, of course, and he has kind of like a cute, fun Northern accent to it too, but he's like, anyone who just knows points but doesn't know the channel, they're not a doctor, they're a needler. like They're like a you know like a mechanic. They're just pokeking the poking a point. you know ah A technician. They're a technician. That's a really good one. And it's not to say technicians are bad.
00:03:41
Speaker
But don't confuse that with a doctor, right? That's very different as far as how do you use them? How do you understand them? How do you diagnose with them? I mean, it we're extremely in two different realms already, right? Right. Because then we talked too about like the connection between points and channels.
00:04:01
Speaker
So the best way to think about this is points are on channels, but the channel is so much more than points. And that's one of my biggest things. And so like, for instance, a good example would be why Lung1 is so good as a digestive point. Because of where the channel starts. It's where the channel starts or or the name or where the channel goes or where it descends before it even arises again. I mean, there's so much knowledge behind a single And how many people just don't use that? Or near it they don't even use it diagnostically, much less treatment wise. So right they're just missing out on, I mean, they missed out on at least three quarters of what we just said, if they only know that point. If they know the point name, maybe they'll get half. If they know the channel, then they get all. And that's where people need to know their
Acupuncture Learning in the US vs China
00:04:49
Speaker
channels. And you know, I assume it's universal. Do people have to memorize their channels in America?
00:04:54
Speaker
Not really, but you will get quizzed on certain aspects. So the lung starting in the middle jowl is something that for sure I was on my boards and it was definitely on a lot of Angie's tests or anyone else's tests. Absolutely. And sorry, we were just talking about Angie because she taught my my first point class. ah Lucky. Yeah, very lucky. Yeah, she's very, very hands on, very targeted at that.
00:05:21
Speaker
Aspects will like um we talked again a little bit about like ah the kidney connecting to the root of the tongue like that will show up on the test But I might not ask you or maybe even where the kidney channel starts right because that's kind of atypical Where did it say it starts? At the end of the bladder channel. Yeah, that's great.
Using Acupuncture Points Correctly
00:05:41
Speaker
Jingmen um ju yin Okay. Yeah, extreme yin or the apex of yin. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. And it also gets to another point. This is the job, man. We're going points on points here. I was going to say talking points on acupuncture points. We're supposed to be talking about channels, Steven. You just started by saying channels aren't points and yet you're making all these points. Well, here's an interesting one. I didn't
00:06:06
Speaker
I you would just basically make a show about like all the confusion I had when I came back. So like in China, not once in 11 years that I ever see someone use kidney one to descend she not once. I really never. And so I came back here and people were like Oh, I just put a needle in by way and I put a needle in kidney one. I worry about by 20. Yeah, do 20. So they're like one and do 20 and one in kidney one because I want to regulate top and bottom.
00:06:34
Speaker
We do use bai hui for lifting and no one in the entire continent of China that I saw in 11 years uses kidney one for descending because it doesn't do that. It's not indicated to do that. And they're like, well, point on head lift, point on foot descent. No. I remember too, i when I ran into that, I was super shocked because from Qigong, you don't use that point for descending either. You use it for pulling in and lifting. and then That's correct.
00:07:03
Speaker
bubbling well, uh, bubbling spring also gives you an image of something arising. Yeah. Or surging spring would be a good translation too. Yeah. So that's right. I, and then just stab anyone in their foot anywhere and they're not going to be very grounded. You're bringing something up. Well, Julian is a good example of a better point. If they really wanted to pick a point on the foot, that one makes way more sense. And so in the, what they call the songs, it's that's a,
00:07:31
Speaker
It's kind of a goofy word too. It means like new like a p mnemonic device, but there's these like sort of rhyming songs or mnemonic devices. Oh yeah, they're point songs. Yeah. So that's why song is a funny term to use for that, but just think of a slightly as slanty rhyme and I'm not talking Asian there.
00:07:54
Speaker
I am Asian, everybody. i'm my My name is Wong. Made a joke. Just a joke. ah Anyway. But Zhu Yun is in those songs or mnemonic devices for basically any sort of headache or or basically head-to-head problem. So like this is another thing. What the heck is a command point? Never seen never seen that shit in China. But people say Hoku large intestine four is the command point for the face, right?
00:08:22
Speaker
but I don't know where that comes from. i i don't know yeah Yeah, it's good for facial paralysis. Maybe that's what they're talking about, but I mean that alone, to call it a command point, I don't know. But and maybe I don't know what word they're trying to translate if it it really is a word in Chinese. I'm guessing they just made it up. But zhi yin is really for a lot of headaches. You can use it almost for any kind of headache because that one will pull downward. It's on a channel that descends instead of on kidneys, which is on a channel that rises. And it is the lowest jing well point of that channel.
00:08:51
Speaker
Yeah. The only thing I'll add for the Hegu point is that the large intestine, you know, crosses the the mouth too. So you kind of can hit both sides maybe from one point. That's a good point. That makes it a little special. um But yeah, ah the feet one,
00:09:10
Speaker
There was another idea that was presented a lot in school, which was needling from thai chuang liver three. Thai chuang to two that kitty one point. They're kind of right, but yeah you don't have to needle it. You just want the sensation to go there. Yeah. And that it being more grounding? or Correct. Well, or yin nourishing. So you can kind of say, but I wouldn't really even call it, I would say anchoring in the lower burner, but and strengthening the the yin of the lower burner. Correct. Okay.
00:09:39
Speaker
i would recommend I would define that actually as knowing, so I don't know if this is a commonly known thing or whatever else, but a lot of times in China, we um we need the sensation because it tells us A, that we're in the right place,
00:09:55
Speaker
B, that we're affecting the area, which mean could mean local and it could also mean organ via the channel. And then C, it also helps us understand what effect we're going to get from that point. And that's this third point. Whereas if you needle a Taichung liver 3 and you get the radiation down towards kidney 1, you know what the effect is. That's the Yuan source point effect.
00:10:15
Speaker
That's not the shoestream point effect because we all know that that's the same point on yin channels, but you're not going to really improve joint pain that way. But Boyle do good stuff for their kidney and lower burner yin because don't forget liver yin and kidney yin are both in the lower burner and they're interchangeable. Right. What's the sensation for the shoestream function then? AK local around the joint.
00:10:38
Speaker
Ah, sure. Okay. Yeah. And i I do find them in different locations. Ooh. Do you find one of them more towards the joint space? or Yeah. ah Which one would you go for? ah Which one would you put closer to the joint space versus further back? never Don't go all the way down that bone, shape the V shape and the bone. I've heard some people go at the apex of that V.
00:11:03
Speaker
And boy, they're just asking for like scraping bone membrane and shit. Like that sounds painful. And it's not possible. Near to the nerve. I mean, for, yeah just to take the image back up to the hand for a second. Uh, Hegu is often needle in a dong system as Lingu. And that is needle closer to that nerve.
00:11:24
Speaker
space or that that the edge of the V, like where the apex is. Yeah. Yeah. And if I'm trying to affect a nerve thing in the body, like, sure, I go there for that. Yeah. If I was on the foot, I'd probably go more proximal for the joint space and more distal for the for the kidney one. That's exactly right. That's exactly how I do it. So I do
Precision in Acupuncture Techniques
00:11:43
Speaker
like halfway to through the V. That's like right in the middle.
00:11:47
Speaker
just like where we'd probably do hugo. I assume people are doing that. It's right in the middle there um for the UN source function and then right after the joint for the shoestream function. And that's because shoestream points are four joints. Right. So near closer to the joint if you're trying to affect the joint. Yep.
00:12:04
Speaker
And I mean, I hope people had thought through this because you're like, okay, like, uh, you know, just pick any shoe stream point, Ian channel or young channel. The vast majority are like right after that joint, like Hoshi small intestine, right after that joint, our Jen, I'm sorry, San Jen on the large intestine.
00:12:21
Speaker
right after the joint. So why in the world is Taichung not right after the joint if you want to shoestream function out of it? Well, so it is. It's just they didn't you know make that little nuance clear to for people, I would say.
00:12:37
Speaker
Right. We talked about it before where the, uh, the word or the verbiage, uh, how do we want to say it? Um, efficiency of getting your point across when you're writing stuff down, when it wasn't as easy as typing on a computer or paper, wasn't as there was no paper, you have bamboo slats, maybe, or don't or carve on stone. ah Yeah. Carving on stone. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm not going to like make a footnote for people like figured out peeps.
00:13:05
Speaker
or get me a new chisel. Uh, so to get to the point. Yes. Uh, our thing to do. Yeah. I do what we never do. Uh, so channels are describing a flow. Correct. Yeah. So what I recommend people think about is, um, think about a channel is like a smooth moving anatomical based thing.
00:13:34
Speaker
meaning it's based on anatomical landmarks and features, but it's not a sequence of points. so you know We've said this before, but it's not like, for instance, a bunch of Christmas lights on a string of christmas like
Channels as River Movements Analogy
00:13:46
Speaker
ah on a like a wire. You want to think about the wire as the main thing instead of the bling-bling Christmas lights all along it. and The reason this is so important is We're thinking about where does the channel go as far as, you know, carving through musculature. Maybe carving is not the right word, but I meant it in like a snowboarding way, right? Like moving smoothly through things. That's what we're looking for. And it also gives us an idea where
00:14:11
Speaker
This can be a little bit nitpicky, I agree. But some people have really complained that a lot of the acupuncture charts are so jit jaggedy, whereas and all the point names are all based on water. And originally, the concept of channels itself really comes from the movement of rivers and in ah in a country. So if you look back at the ancient texts, that's where the idea of channels really came from. There were 12 major rivers in China,
00:14:38
Speaker
that basically supplied food and transportation to the whole country and that same idea of 12 major organ channels in our body doing the same thing. um and there' And their complaint would be that the jagged lines aren't indicative in nature of how water moves. That's exactly right. That is 100% right. yu And so when we think of it that way, even if it's just a repetitive picture,
00:15:03
Speaker
right It's not to say that, but you know visual images do inform how we see things and therefore how we use things. So it's it's a point. I don't know if it's an end all point, but it's useful. And so this is that same idea of we're looking at where the river goes. right We're saying, okay, it's going from this province to this province. We're not necessarily counting all the towns along the river. Now it's true. If you wanted to load something onto a boat, you'd think, well, I need a i need a a Town that has a deeper port. I'm gonna go to the she cleft town Or you know if if like the river tends to get stuck here because there's not enough flow I'm gonna go to the UN source town. So then you start seeing points as function instead of Defining your channel and I think that's where people I'd recommend where people go know your channel for the anatomy and location and
00:15:57
Speaker
but know your points for indications, or really what I would say is function. The goal is to get to kind of function understanding of points much more than indications. I'm not needling, you know, why Guan? Because it tells me I should for a cold. I'm doing it for clearing the exterior because it's the Yang Wei point, right? and um Or because it can deal with internal and external winds simultaneously, something like that. That's the the higher level of using these. It's also a lot easier because you have to memorize less things, but you get greater functionality of them.
00:16:28
Speaker
Right. that That knowledge is more foundational, and then therefore you can do more things with it. You can play with it. It's like a an artist with ah with knowing maybe like their primary colors. It's like if you really know your primary colors, or you can make any other color you want. That's right. And then the other one is like an indication is basically like, well, they told me two-thirds red and one-third yellow, and you get some other color.
Function vs Indication of Acupuncture Points
00:16:53
Speaker
Orange? Right, right, right.
00:16:54
Speaker
Which is useful then to like go back and and look at stuff and like mull over, like, well, why do they say Hegu is the command point for the face? Like how many different, you know, reasons can we come up with for it treating the face and how strongly does it treat it? Like, is it that nerve that's, that you can get that nerve sensation underneath Hegu and that we know, you know, that that nerve runs up into the face. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:19
Speaker
It's like that could be a a strong reason for it. You know, it's the source point. It's full of tea and blood. um There's a whole thing with maybe points being in the middle of a long bone that give it a lot of function. You'll run into that where middle long bone points get a bigger movement throughout the entire body or get a highlight.
00:17:41
Speaker
You could also go image system. You could, you could image the hand on the face. That's a big thing. And the dongs system. Totally. In fact, now that you bring it up, I heard that who is, is it taught along the bone here or is it ah like right in the middle? Well, I had the good luck of, of having Angie as my teacher. So we, we learned both along the bone and then also a little bit more into that muscular region. Got it. Um,
00:18:10
Speaker
Along the bone is not, I don't, there's no acupuncturist that I've ever met in China that would identify hugo as next to the bone. They would all say it's halfway between the bone that goes through your thumb and the bone that goes to your forefinger. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's pretty standard. They also heard from some people here in America that they, they, i they locate it actually closer to this side of the bone. Like. Right. More proximal.
00:18:38
Speaker
yeah or just like closer to the index finger, like right along that bone area. yeah And that's not right. the only The only people in China that do that are Toina people because Toina points aren't always the same as acupuncture points. ah And if you do use your hands instead of a needle, then I recommend people go close to the bone. But then some people were like, well, if you go close to the bone, you get better needle sensation. No, you don't need that. That's just needle pain. The needle sensation comes in the middle if you needle it, right?
00:19:06
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And I mean, you're still in a space. You're not like in the muscle, but you're off of the bone very much. Yeah. I mean, like right in the middle, right? Like, so if you like squished your finger together, it would be the apex of that muscle. Yeah. That's how they tell you to find it. There you go. So yeah, that's, I was really stunned. It's like not even close to the bone on either side. It's right in the middle. And that's why it's called bridging the Valley. Right. Have you heard of people? It's the, ah so the black eyed peas point bridge in the gap.
00:19:37
Speaker
Have you heard of people threading though, from, what is it going to be? Uh, young, no, yeah. The small intestine source point. Got it. Small intestine source point. Uh, Yanggu. Yanggu over across the palm. Cause that one gets close to the bone. Oh, you're talking about Wanggu. I'm sorry. Wanggu. Yeah. long ago they They were actually right next to each other. I think it's four and five. Is that right? and Yeah. Yanggu here.
00:20:05
Speaker
Wanggu is up up above here and then Yanggu is below. Yeah. So Wanggu over ah just across the palm. That's a good technique, but it's I would say it's at the wrong point. It's at Hoshi Sanjian. Okay. These two points. Yep. And are you getting close to the bone-ish on that one? If you start at Hoshi? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You mean like close to the bone, distilled proximal style?
00:20:36
Speaker
Or you mean it close to the, oh, you're saying because you're going to San Jian, the point instead of Hoku. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you are aiming for the shoe stream point. They're not the UN source. Yes. But still the idea of getting close to that, like shaving the bone as they would call it. or I see. ah Just the the idea of getting that close to a bone.
00:20:57
Speaker
Kinda. I mean, all shoes, dream points are like where the bone would wrap underneath, but I would not say we're actually shaving the bone there. Cause I know what you mean. And there is such a thing where you're kind of like almost drilling at the bone. Yeah. Yeah. That's an idea. I think some people really like to use that a lot and a lot. I understand why they're doing it, but, um, unless they really need that really intense stimulation deep at a deep level, which I think you're right. Like, you know, like sometimes you do need that, but like, here's a good example, like stroke patients.
00:21:26
Speaker
Um, who lose control of one hand. That's one of the best techniques that for enlivening and invigorating hand again, you can use one needle from both sides or you can just thread a three to a needle through. Um, but you're, you're definitely underneath the bone the entire time. You're never scraping against the, no, the periosteum is very good. Thank you. Not just bone membrane Chinese called bone membrane. um So easy. We can use that.
00:21:56
Speaker
Periformis muscle is pear shaped muscle, which is what it literally means in Latin, but like nobody speaks Latin anymore. No, but man, wouldn't it be helpful if we did? Yeah, rhomboid. We call that like the rhomboid muscle. Like the, it's because it's shaped like a little rhombus. We actually use the word for diamond because I didn't realize, but a diamond and a rhomboid are the same thing. You just got to turn it 45 degrees.
00:22:20
Speaker
Uh, a fun fact about Latin or I think this one's Greek is that, uh, psyche, like your, what we now considered like your mental yeah kind of idea. Yeah. Uh, originally in old meanings can both mean soul and butterfly. Interesting. Very drawing to the like, huh?
00:22:39
Speaker
Yeah, far more ah incorporating of a greater kind of
Language's Role in Understanding Acupuncture
00:22:43
Speaker
idea than just the mind as we now use psyche for totally that reminds me of because obviously people are going to roll with us.
00:22:52
Speaker
That's what we do, people. um But one of my patients is, did I tell you about him? He was a religious professor at CU, University of Colorado. And he speaks Aramaic, which is like, we see like one of the three people that does that. and um But it's so fascinating because I guess the original Bible was written in Aramaic. And the word for soul, he says, ah which of course, he's a you know great resource. I don't know this myself, but he said it means that breath from the deepest part of your throat. That's the definition of what soul is. And I was like, we have the name for that. That's called Hang Song. It's on the liver channel, which makes sense why i open people block off their breathing in sleeping.
00:23:34
Speaker
they they don't regenerate properly because they're basically locking out their liver channel when they're breathing. So people who have sleep apnea are the things where they're closing off the hang song, which is the deepest part of your throat. that's That name, the Chinese name is actually just an onomatopoeia because it's describing where nasalized sound would come from.
00:23:54
Speaker
Nice. that's And then going back, because we just mentioned earlier that ah Hawaiians share breath as a part of their greeting nice technique and aloha. And so aloha means it can mean spirit and it can mean breath. Oh my God, that's exactly the same thing. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And gets you back to another thing. How would you know Hong Song? Unless you knew your channels because it's written in your channels.
00:24:18
Speaker
So where where's Hong Song on the liver channel? Oh, it's just describing it when it enters into the head. Oh, like as it goes towards the apex? Correct. So like basically where, I guess, I don't know how the West would describe where like the liver channel when it's entering into the head, but it says it passes Hong Song.
00:24:39
Speaker
Okay. Is this before or after it does the loop-de-loop around for ren and do connecting? Ooh, that is such a good point. Let me run the, actually, I can't remember that right off the top of my head, but I will, I will look real quick. You remember enough awesome stuff of yourself if your head is wide. That loop-de-loop is also really key to around the mouth, you mean? Yeah, it hits both. Yeah. Well, man, I see, I would describe it as it hits ren 24 and two 26 or it hits the, um,
00:25:10
Speaker
the fluid container and I'll forget what do 26 is. Do 20. Is that shunting at the front? On the upper lip. Ah, Renzhong. Yeah. To revive people a point. Yep. That's called Renzhong. Like people in the middle. People in the middle.
00:25:32
Speaker
I'm talking to the man in the middle. Totally. Um, so if we're on like the main part of the liver channel and then it's coming upward along the leg, as we all know, up towards the ribs, and then it says, um, it continues on. So at this post ribs and everything, after it follows along the throat, it's, they just use the word for throat. They're called whole long. And then it says, shanggu, hung song. And this is that area that's called like, you might even translate it like a throat sinus, or I would just call it the deepest part of the throat.
Treating Conditions with Channel Knowledge
00:26:07
Speaker
and then it continues, and it says it connects to the eye system or it networks to the eye, ascends to the forehead and joins with Dumai at the apex of the head. That also gives us understanding, oh, of course, it goes to Dumai, and that's why a Julian headache goes to the apex of our head. And then the next branch is where it's talking about circling the mouth. okay So it's branched from the eye system, descends into the cheek, circles around the inside of the lips,
00:26:34
Speaker
um That's an interesting one too, because it literally says inside of the lips, which is called huan chun ne. Well, if you think about this, because we're back on channel, so let's just roll here. This is a really good point, um why there is just an endless spring of knowledge from these this channels. um We'll go through a bunch, but I know this sounds really dirt dorky and nerdy, but when you can zoom in on the words that they use, it does require a little of knowledge of Chinese.
00:27:04
Speaker
But the point is, is use whatever resources you have, um and I'm eventually going to write this darn book because it's based on this. But anyway, the point is, if they say it circles around the inside of the lips,
00:27:18
Speaker
there's so much information that they didn't just say it circles the lips, tons of other places, tons of other channels, just circle the lips. Well, what does it mean when they say it circles inside the lips, the muscle, they're talking about the sphincter or circular like muscles that go around the lips, which are further in um or near right there, they're like the periphery of that lips, it's not just kind of going along that surface area. And the okay, so you think, okay, well so that's kind of useful. It's not just kind of useful, it's essential. So for facial palsies, just like Ho Gu is one of the most important points for a facial palsy, Tai Chong is also considered one of those kind of essential points from a lot of masters in China. Not because of four gates, by the way, just shout out to not four gating.
00:28:05
Speaker
This is because of the channel, it's where it's going. And it's like, well, how do I want to rehabilitate the mouth? I mean, if I can affect specifically the muscles around the mouth, you bet you better believe I'm i'm targeting that, right?
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah. And just a brought back another thing too, where we're focusing again on verbs and what verb is being used ah to describe the movement of this river flow. So, so, so key. So I don't know if we've talked about this before, but maybe we'll drop this little little tidbit here. Asher brought up a super key point, which is if you're going to learn Chinese and I really recommend everyone maybe everyone to learn a little bit because it's fun foreign language. But if you're a practitioner of Chinese medicine, boy, you better learn some.
Learning Chinese for Acupuncture Mastery
00:28:49
Speaker
And if you're going to focus on any one category of words, focus on your verbs because Chinese is a verb based language. It's not a noun based language. Their nouns are almost comical like from our perspective. ah A computer is an electric brain. It's electric right because you need electricity and it's a brain because it thinks about shit.
00:29:08
Speaker
So Western people are like, ah, stupid, funny. But it tells us what it's doing. And more importantly, the verbs are almost untranslatable back into English because they're so direct, like they're so specific. I think I've told you this before, there's a verb for holding someone or supporting them by the arm to help them move across the street. There's literally a verb that means that in Chinese. It's called fu. And so like, that's a pretty big point. And you might say, okay, well, what's the point of knowing that?
00:29:38
Speaker
Again, we go to our points, whatever this point is called between the two heads of the sternocleidomastoid. Yeah, the stomach nine support the prominence. It's that full. It's that full. And so when we say support, what do we mean? We mean hold it so that it can do its function across an area. And what does prominence mean? It's the name of this lower point of the throat called tian tu, this ren point.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, 22. Yeah, 22. That's right. For the cough, you'd go underneath the sternum with that one. Yeah. And so that's the one where, what are we doing? Well, we're the basically the arc of the bridges where the suspension part that's holding the point, Ren 22 or Tintu, in place. Nice. So so learn your verbs. Learn your verbs. That's what that that's that little little soapbox was for.
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I'm just, I mean, just that little bit, right? Of knowledge. And then you can start using it and noticing it, how it's being used all around. Heck yeah. Well, I think there's a lot of entering and surrounding and, uh, there's another one that you see a lot where it's like, uh, splaying over kind of idea, like, uh, the gallbladder, right? Like goes over the top of the foot. Is that right? Oh, like spreading out over something. Yeah.
00:30:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I like it. I like it. We'll pay attention to more of those, uh, as we learn them. Let's do it up. So we started with the beginning with the lung starts, starts with the lung too.
Deep Dive into the Lung Channel
00:31:12
Speaker
That's right. Um, and the beginning of it, we, we kind of said, uh, brings up some interesting uses for a lung one or Jung Fu middle food, right? ch fu Good, good.
00:31:25
Speaker
And then as we descend down the long channel, we run into long seven or the low point. And there's lots of stuff being said about this point, um, where it is, why it's where it is, why the name is what it is. So the name is broken sequence is the translation. Was it lay? leu yeah true That's a hard sound by the way. So if that sounds like hard in language, that's cause that one's hard.
00:31:51
Speaker
li true leto ah huh Almost like an EW. It really, exactly. You're right, like a ch and a wa. Ch. You're like, how many consonants do I have to stick together? Yeah, for real. And Hawaiian, too, is like all vowels, so it's the opposite. Oh, buddy. So if we stuck a Hawaiian next to a Chinese person, they'd have an equal number of vowels forgotten. Wait, you're all consonants? I'm all vowels. I got you, bro. Like peanut butter and jelly, yo.
00:32:25
Speaker
Yeah. Complementary. Yeah, exactly. So ah the low point ah is found, you know, what, one and a half soon above on the large intestine channel generally. But then there's some 5e people going around saying that, oh, it's actually still on the lung channel. And that's why the name is Broken Sequence because you start you know If you follow the channel from long five, the seat point, you go down the arm, ah you actually skip the jing river point, and you go to the low point, and then you hop back to the river point, and then you go to the shooting point. So same line, but se sequencing wrong.
00:33:07
Speaker
Right, which is also weird. It's weird for so many reasons, because a river doesn't generally double back on itself. And if it does, it uses 3Ds. It doesn't do it in the same dimension. Correct. You can't have water flowing both directions on the river at the same time, right?
00:33:24
Speaker
No, it generally doesn't work like that. yeah so And if it did, you'd have like this crazy riptide and everything would be fucked. Yeah, exactly. So all of us would not have risks. Well, my acupuncturist's diagnosis was. Yeah. and then And then what would like correcting the flow of that meridian do? If it's going backwards on itself, it doesn't. It's like cannonballing into the.
00:33:53
Speaker
that part of the room, you just jump really hard and cannonball, knock it around. Oh yeah, just like a big splash. Exactly. No, but obviously all that's goofed off, right? yeah Yeah. And you bring up a really good point too. You said this earlier, but we never, never count numbers of points in Chinese. They're named, they're never numbered. Not once in history have they ever been numbered until white people came and couldn't remember the Chinese names. I assume that's why they put names instead of numbers, right? Or numbers instead of names. I'm sorry, numbers instead of names.
00:34:23
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. the The numbers, I would like to think that the numbers have some weird meaning because, but if you're right, if white people name them, there's probably no meanings.
00:34:38
Speaker
But you know numerology is a big thing with Chinese stuff too. so That's an interesting point. If you brought a someone who was first in that, they might be able to find and dig some deeper meanings out. Sure. Yeah, I see what you mean. Like the third point. And if you're counting five element-wise, but then sometimes you add points and sometimes you don't. So sometimes like they're not always like the Jing River is not the fifth point out, right? No, not at all. So then it's like, yeah.
00:35:05
Speaker
in this case, where you just started up on the stomach or up on the upper arm for point one. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like front move. Yeah, exactly. All these things. You betcha. Oh, okay. So and you know, you bring up a really good point, too. So again, we don't care about the numbers in China. We never have. Also, we and this is maybe a personal thing. I'll make that aside. But I think numbering them really depersonalizes them.
00:35:32
Speaker
So it's like, I mean, you think about like, let's say you had, um you know, 10 kids, them one through 10, right? But you can probably give them actual names. So that's the same thing is we give them names that have lots of significance, because it encapsulates, you know, maybe encapsulates what you're supposed to feel from that.
00:35:54
Speaker
The law um ah for the liver, Lee Go, that tell the name of that really tells us two things, where it is and what the sensation should be. it's li um li is like ah There's three insect radicals on the bottom of that character, because when you needle that point correctly, then you get a tingling almost like an ant-like sensation walking up your leg. That's telling us what sensation we're looking for. Go is talking about a gully,
00:36:24
Speaker
or a ditch, because what we're looking for is directly in the middle of that tibia bone. There's a nice divot that you're aiming to get the tip of the needle right into it. And if you can get it, that's the only way you can get that upward ant walking sensation. So check it out. Two words, which is the name of a point, tells us what sensation we want if we're in the right spot and where to get it. I mean, that is useful, good stuff.
00:36:48
Speaker
Yeah. And you would just miss it too if you just called it liver five. um So just going to this point for a quick second, you're saying you needle over the bone, not into the bone, but over the bone. Yeah. Right. Like it's like right halfway into the tibia. It's like right in the middle of the tibia. That's correct. Yeah. Okay.
00:37:10
Speaker
And I've have heard that some people what's that? I said shoots. Yeah, I've heard some books. I don't know which ones maybe say that the liver channel is next to the tibia. That's not true. Then you're on the spleen channel. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna come back to that because the liver crossing on the that's true. true That's listed in the channels is legged. Yeah, but where does it cross? It's when it's going on. Because it's also listed on the channels.
00:37:37
Speaker
There's the fucking answer right there. It's going up. um and then hu And then so it's in the beginning, then it's, oh, God, how do you describe it anatomically? It's more anterior to this plane channel the rest of the time.
00:37:58
Speaker
And then therefore on top of the tibia. And so. Correct. Yeah. Below eight. So in the liver is anterior to the spleen. Yeah. And then afterwards it's posterior. Correct. Wow. Yeah. And shit shit guys. Well, I hear I'll, I'll, I'll read that part for you. It's, it's right there. It's the beginning of the liver channel. So. So for some weird reason we're staying on point this time.
00:38:24
Speaker
Okay, so anyway, so it starts off with the liver foot dreian channel. ah The Chinese is gan zu dreian german. So the interesting thing is, oh, yeah, okay, I'm i'm just gonna go with it the whole time. So every one of these 12 channels, ah except the pericardium, which maybe if we have time, we'll talk about that, because it's different. But every of the other 11 of them, they always start with the organ, duh, because we know we're affecting the liver with this.
00:38:50
Speaker
Then it talks to the foot, dr in which really should mean the lower body. drn When we say foot, um it means lower body. So foot, lower leg, same thing. But what we're really saying is, of course, that it's starting there. So we're not, you know, anyway, so in case anyone was curious about that. j yin Very important. You know, these six channeled names are extremely important. ju my means the channel of that. And specifically the word my.
00:39:18
Speaker
as you know, means vessel, it means pulse. And here we're talking about a channel. So what we're really talking about is the flow of stuff. And we're not just making that up, it really is the fluids. So it is the blood, it is because the yin nutritive has to be inside a vessel. Now, are we talking about qi? You bet.
00:39:39
Speaker
But the nejing, just like is repeated in the Shang Han Lun, it says, the yin circulates inside the mai, and the wei qi, or the qi here, circulates outside or around the mai vessels. So here, very key in that, yes, they are the same thing, we're just not needling into a vessel because we don't need to.
Path of the Liver Channel
00:40:00
Speaker
Our goal is to affect qi, not blood, unless we're bleeding.
00:40:04
Speaker
Anyway, then it continues on the liver channel here and it says, um, it originates at the many hairs marker of the big toe. Uh, for those Chinese listeners here, it's called. qi dodger zhong mao ju ji So q it originates at Dodger, which is the great.
00:40:21
Speaker
Finger toe, the ancient word for finger and toe is the same thing. zhong mao This means many hairs. Well, what are we talking about? I'm not it's kind of hilarious. Check out your big toe peeps. Everyone man, woman, chat children, we all have hair on the back of our big toe, even people that don't have hair elsewhere, which is really funny. And can you imagine what a hobbit's big toe would look like? I mean, it would be like the chia pet of all their foot, right?
00:40:47
Speaker
You probably can't find a difference between that hair and the hair that's farther up on the foot. It's true. It's just, it's the poof ball that's leading the the charge. Anyway, so zhong mao juu ji and you know we even go into this, ah which is why is their hair sprouting right there? Because it's such an essential part of where the kind of the spring of this channel is.
00:41:11
Speaker
So more young and specifically more blood, as we know, will generate hair and so forth. But that tells you it's a very energetically strong starting point. And that's why the liver is there.
00:41:24
Speaker
And then it ascends along the upper edge of the instep. This is called shang xun zu fu, shang lian. And then it continues and it travels to one zun of the media malleolus. There's no preposition really here in Chinese. So it says chu nei huai yi zun. So literally it means goes to the inner ankle.
00:41:46
Speaker
or medial malleolus, one twin. So there is no preposition that they gave us there. And the key here is, so that's up for us to figure out. Well, what is one twin? I think most of us would say in front of, right? once One twin in front of the medial malleolus.
00:42:03
Speaker
ah just because of where the channel is going and very importantly then it says ascends to eight sun above the malleolus. So it goes eight sun up and then it says after intersecting with tai yin which is the foot tai yin channel.
00:42:22
Speaker
jiaohu thinra ma i'm sorry zo tu tainju ho So after intersecting um with the foot tai yin channel. So that's where we know the liver and the spleen channel intersects the eight. So when it's written in the channel. Yeah. Awesome. So, I mean, Denman does give you the eight soon location, but he just doesn't have it. It's tricky because when you get down to like where the points located and where is everything else, they they put it basically over top of the spleen because you have that, you have that low point that is on the spleen channel and not on the liver channel at that point.
00:43:01
Speaker
Oh, so he puts LIGO, the liver low point on a spleen channel? Essentially, yeah. Because it's right off of the tibia. Ah, we would not. Yeah. ah So both of those liver points right there should be right in the middle of the tibia. Yeah. What does he say? Immediately posterior to the medial crest of the tibia. And then he says the depression between the medial crest of the tibia and the gastroc muscle.
00:43:29
Speaker
And then he describes the spleen channel exactly the same way, right? Let's look at spleen six. Uh, let's see, an oppression close to the medial crest of the tibia. So one's immediate and one's close. Yeah. I don't like it. No, no. Uh, and so pretty tricky. And I mean, I think I've gone through the whole time needling, uh, the low point in a different location. Well, now you can play with a new one.
00:43:59
Speaker
Yeah, totally. Very shallow noodling though. I can't go nearly as deep. Correct. And I angled that one up because you want the sensation to go. Ideally, it should tingle all the way up to the genitals if you get it right. Right. Because that's where that channel goes. And that's what we use it for. and It's like the number one genital itching point point and yeah. Okay.
00:44:19
Speaker
Now that little divergent channel will bring us back to the one. We'll just be like divergent channel number 23. Yeah, just like don't don't know what they are yet still. but They're there. They're important. They do shit. Yeah, exactly.
00:44:34
Speaker
So the low point of the lung now. Right. Let's get to the low point of the lung. So I hope this is evident, but these we're basically this whole podcast today is just to be like, why learn those
Role of Classics in Acupuncture Practice
00:44:47
Speaker
channels? And so we're just giving you more and more goodness for that stuff. I just want to be entirely transparent about what we're trying to do here.
00:44:54
Speaker
um So second thing, if we go to the low point on the lung channel, so here's a really, really, I think important point. um I have a ton of respect for this Dr. Wang Zhuyi, which I know Asher does too. He was alive and when I was in Beijing when I first got there for the first five or six years.
00:45:15
Speaker
And then he passed, I think, right around but maybe the seventh year I was there, or something like that. um he's you know I just have so much respect for this guy. You could say infinite respect because he's in the same category as Dr. Guo. In fact, I think they graduated from the same class, which was maybe the second class ever ah of like of medicine in China at that point because Chinese medicine had never been taught in the colleges. It'd always been past master disciple until 1959. Anyway, so they respected each other and I have literally infinite respect for Dr. Guo. So you can see they're just really, really brilliant. The second part is they always root their information in the classics.
00:45:57
Speaker
I know for non classic readers, you might be like, guys, you guys are reading this, like, I don't know, almost like a religious text. But don't start there. I didn't start there. i didn't I've never really been religious in my life. I didn't, as a child, I didn't have to do that. And so, or I wasn't, sorry. No, like it was like, I wasn't forced to like believe in this dude who controlled my life or my best way. Exactly. Because they're all, you know, it's always a dude at one of them one of the institutional things. But um so,
00:46:30
Speaker
Anyway, so I started out being like, yeah, what is up with these classics, guys? I think I'm naturally you know' fairly interested, but skeptical person. and so I remember being in my first master's level class in China, which is considered a PhD level class here because they do the undergrad as as what we call a master's here. um Anyway, so I was totally out of my league. I didn't know a ton. This is right when I started my schooling and I just got thrown into this advanced class.
00:47:00
Speaker
And one of the teachers, he's a really, really good acupuncturist. If any of you are in Beijing, you might know him. His name is Li Ray. He studied in Tianjin at a very famous acupuncture school there, too. Anyway, he was teaching our class there, and everything was coming out of the classics. And he just kept kind of talking it up. He'd be like, oh, you know the classics. They teach us everything. The level of medicine back in the Tang dynasty was up here. He even was drawing on the chalkboard.
00:47:29
Speaker
Whereas now we're only down here, we might not even ever get back to that point. And it just kind of felt like what I was describing. It almost felt like, you know, religious in a way or something. And I was like, is it really? And then you start using it. And so then continuing to be skeptical, I was like, but this is interesting information. I tried to apply some of this information.
00:47:48
Speaker
it's great it worked well it give me insight it felt like i was operating on concepts instead of just memorized regurgitation then i met doctor and i like to shifted my understanding of the classics just totally shifted cuz like of course of course this is what.
00:48:05
Speaker
is the powerhouse behind what we're trying to do. um And if you don't know the underlying stuff, you can't apply it again as a doctor, you're a technician. So I had to go through my own way to find the classics. And so if you don't find you're interested in the classics, great. But don't give up on it, right? Poke around, see if it's good. um And you might at some point be in the same boat as me, which is like, hell, are we studying anything else, right? This is the stuff. This is where it all is.
00:48:33
Speaker
right You'll get to that reference of it. Once you start seeing it work. The other thing, I had a good fortune of having an undergrad professor who would make you quote stuff out of the text. It would be a great idea, but where'd you get that from? And he would straight up just hold up in his hands like they were a palm of a book while someone was talking and point to his hand and be like,
00:48:56
Speaker
like where Where in the text are you finding you know your ability to say that yeah and just bringing people back? I helped one the bullshitter from bullshitting because if you're a good bullshitter, you can kind of just get it away with one yeah yeah an undergrad. But that kind of put a stop to that. And then it also made you think way deeper about you know what what was your thoughts and like where are you getting that and And the theory is behind that. um And then like we talk about all the time we're operating off of these kind of base concepts in that foundation, then allows you to do way more than just just the indications of something. 100%, man. And I think a lot of people here even recognize that like the classics do have the majority of all of the goodness in our medicine. That's why I think a lot of people try and attribute things back to the classics, even if they're not.
00:49:45
Speaker
Like the built, the Nejing says this, and you're like, well, which chapter was that? ah It's just in the Nejing, just in there. could Confucius says I'm a badass. Right? It's like people could put all these things in it. Yeah. And that's a thing, I think, throughout all time. Yeah. People like to do that to get more credibility than maybe they have. Yeah. And then one would- Those who speak don't know. Those who know don't speak. Good point. And then you're like, well, why does referring to the classics give credibility? Because that is where the credible part of our medicine comes from. Understanding to see- No one here knows it.
00:50:22
Speaker
Well, that's part of the reason why, yeah, I'm not writing it at the moment. I've been doing other things, making this podcast and other stuff. But and that's why the first book I plan to write is going to be a translation of all 12 of these channels and more, probably the two other channels, Red and Do. And then also, the Nejing talks about um the 15 law points. And so I'll put that in there too, because people need that the original translated by a doctor. that's That's very essential. You need to have the original Nejing wording of your channels. Otherwise, what are you memorizing? So the way we learn these in China is literally like, you know, yeah every class we we would show up and we would have to memorize one to two of these channels word for word in Nejing and just have to recite it by memory. And we'd stand up one at a time. Everyone in the 30 person class would have to stand up and just rattle this thing off.
00:51:17
Speaker
And they didn't stop at ah just the Chinese students. So then they made us, I was probably the only, I thought was the only actually a foreigner in my class. So then they made me stand up. And I remember the first time I did it, it was kidney channel, actually. um I forget why that was the first one I had to recite. So I stand up and I say it and I sit down and I was like, Oh shit, did I really mess it up? Cause the person I was sitting next to was like, look at me funny. She's like, I never thought white people would do this too. And it's like, well, you have to do it. The teacher made me do it, you know?
00:51:47
Speaker
Right. You're also like, I'm, I'm half. Okay. I guess. Yeah. Still that's funny. It's all relative.
00:51:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So Wang Jui, by the way, so a really, really great doctor. I know he has that book um of that. There's that book out of his information. What's that one? Applied channel theory. Applied channel. Yeah. So he's the doctor that um all that context.
00:52:17
Speaker
Plaid channel theory, that's where that comes from. Great doctor, great teacher, really cool. So he has the concept also that L'Etrure, the low point of the lungs, is not off of the channel. If you drew a line between the Hersey and the Yuan source, it's still on that same line.
00:52:36
Speaker
So now we're kind of in a pickle because, yeah, some of the best doctors in China say it's where you know all the textbooks would say it's off the that line. um And then Wang Jui, another great doctor by anybody's perspective, I would hope, says it's not. And so here we're kind of in a pickle. And this is where I like to kind of tell people why I keep doing the classics and specifically also why I keep doing the channels.
00:53:02
Speaker
Well, this is how we would understand this, right? Otherwise you just wing it. You just like, I like this guy better. Yeah. Yeah. Or have I tried this before and gotten any good effects from it? That's nice. So you're right. We're all in the clinic, um, post graduation. So, and during, but like, yeah. So if you found that you yourself get a different effect, sure. That's something there too. And then you'd say, okay, well, what's the most credible informed way of making this decision? Your channel.
00:53:32
Speaker
It's absolutely your channel. So if we go to the lung channel, um it says it draws the whole line. it starts ah We'll do the whole thing in a second. So you know where it starts, we know it's going to come from the middle. um But if you go down to the end of it, then it goes all the way to the thumb. Yes. And then here, very importantly, the only branch or what you would call like a main branch These are called zhi in Chinese, which annoyingly is different than zhi, which means a sub-branch. Different character, different tone, sorry people, same words, many letters. Anyway, first tone, zhi, that's like the main branch of the channel. So when you think about, when you hear that, what you want to think of is just more of the channel, not a sub-part of the channel.
00:54:16
Speaker
So this one is the main part. So it says, tihi ja it's branch, or and as we know, here's a main branch, another portion of the main channel. chg waan ho z-hu sogerelian So, it comes out tongg waanho from from behind the wrist, which means ah proximal to the wrist, which is where Liechu is. ah jihu It directly exits suger alien along the inside, or you could call it the radial edge of the index finger.
00:54:54
Speaker
Now, why is this so, is that what it says word for word? I mean, I don't know what the word for word Chinese is, but I do know that we have that low branch, or it's not the low branch, but it goes from that indication all the way down to, man, I can't stop it, but large intestine one, the gene well is a large intestine one. There it is, exactly. Yep, and so the key word here, by the way, is direct. So if you draw a line from large intestine one,
00:55:24
Speaker
ah shangang and you draw it um or i'm sorry xiao shu and you draw it straight down, there is no way to get from the inside edge of your the radial side of your index finger to below your wrist in a straight line. It doesn't work. And that's why that word, which sounds like maybe it was an unnecessary descriptor, is actually a key deciding point in figuring out where this is. There's only one way to get there and you have to draw it directly. It ends up right at the bone.
00:55:54
Speaker
And hence, Vinayajing describes that the atria is on the bone. It's off of that that line.
00:56:04
Speaker
As always, thanks for listening. Give us a like, write us a review, and share with your TCM community. Aloha. But yeah, and join us next week for part two of this episode. Two, three, I don't know how many parts there will be.