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We all learn our channels in school, it is something that we get quizzed on constantly throughout our education. The meridians are the foundation of any acupuncturists knowledge; but how sturdy is this base and what can we do to flush out our understanding of the Jing Luo.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Voices on the Mountains, Act Two'
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome back. This week, Voices on the Mountains, act two of channels. As always, make sure to like our podcast and share with your TCM community.
Yin and Yang in TCM: Energy Patterns
00:00:20
Speaker
Sure. ah And then another thing that this brought up, just because we talked about this this branch, it kind of seems to be a pattern where you have splits from... ah the yin to meet the yang pairing on a lot of these branches.
00:00:35
Speaker
um' think it I don't know if it always happens, but but not just the low point. Yeah. Because any channel that's coming from your core torso out to your limbs is he going to have that. So it's that's why it's usually yin going to the yang.
00:00:48
Speaker
Yeah. Or in the leg one, it's the yang going to the yang. but That's right. That is the yang going to the yang. That's correct. That is correct. Sweet.
Lung Channel Anatomy and Common Translation Errors
00:00:59
Speaker
Another thing there. ah We skipped over one little thing, though, in the beginning of the lung channel.
00:01:03
Speaker
Yep. We know it starts at the middle jaw and then goes up. But then we are given the idea that it goes up the throat. Yeah. Yeah. so yeah And we can even go to the beginning beginning as well if we want to describe how to use it digestively, too, um which we kind of touched on a little bit. But then, yeah. like So, for instance, um what' what's the what's the phrasing in Deadman?
00:01:28
Speaker
Okay. Well, let's just go over Desmond's phrasing then. So originates, because I think a lot of this is actually, the beginning part I think is maybe okay. Originates in the middle jowl. Correct. That's qi yu zhong jowl.
00:01:40
Speaker
In the region of the stomach. ah just literally It literally just means originate in the middle burner. Qi yu zhong jowl. Okay. Descends to connect with the large intestine.
00:01:52
Speaker
um Correct. Xia luo da cheng. returns upward to pass the, oh man, cardiac orifice of the stomach and traverses the diaphragm.
00:02:04
Speaker
That is actually all correct. It's called 环心胃口伤个赦肺
00:02:10
Speaker
um And the cardia, I would call it instead of cardiac orifice whatever, I just call it the cardia, but it's the upper opening of the stomach, which is not – I would say – I mean, i think anatomically people are all – I thought everyone was on board with this, but I would not call that a true sphincter,
Critiquing Translation Methods in TCM
00:02:25
Speaker
by the way. I would just call it a narrowing with where the stomach, where the esophagus passes through the diaphragm.
00:02:30
Speaker
Yes. Gotcha. Then it penetrates the lung. Shang-Ga-Shu-Fei. Well, I see. he uses the word penetrate. That's fascinating. I would not agree with that. and So here it says, shangge, arise and penetrate the diaphragm, meaning go through the diaphragm. So if you want use penetrate there, then it says shufei, which means it belongs to and comes back to the organ that it's designed for. Yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Not penetrating into. Just like it didn't penetrate the low large intestine when it when it dropped in below. Right. And then sometimes, too, I mean, he's translating it, too, for, like, Westerners.
00:03:08
Speaker
Yeah. So going back to where you belong might not mean much to to us. Yeah. He might be trying to be like, oh, let me try to get you the the meaning from it. ah I ran into this the other day.
00:03:21
Speaker
um Someone was talking about ah corridor versus a veranda. And this was in it this is a Chinese name point. It was... um It's in the chest.
00:03:33
Speaker
I can't remember which one. It's one of the run ones, I think.
Cultural Perspectives in Terminology: Corridors and Verandas
00:03:36
Speaker
um Isn't a veranda outside? Yeah. and So, a veranda is outside. in the And actually, they character character caricature the character, the character the character ah the Chinese one, is of a like of a roof, but then it also has an opening.
00:03:53
Speaker
Yeah. ah But it's the same character used for a corridor and veranda. Hmm. And i just been in a Chinese garden and all their quarters were purposely open because we don't like that enclosed kind of space. So I was like, oh, this is just like a feng shui difference too.
00:04:11
Speaker
well As much as possible in, you know, Chinese culture, you probably try to, limit the amount of enclosure you had in a corridor because you weren't able to see out. It's not good feng shui, right? That's right. you might have lattice siding.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yes. so you have a more open feeling and you have better airflow so you don't get mold and all this stuff. so Totally. I was like, actually, this is just like, yeah, like use veranda for us because it'll evoke the right image.
00:04:37
Speaker
But maybe if you were in ancient China, you could use corridor and we would all Or you know we would know what you meant. Totally.
Chinese Architecture and Feng Shui
00:04:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. like around every you And they're beautiful. If you guys check them out, you can go to um really anywhere in China, you'll see this. But there's a place.
00:04:54
Speaker
ah I think it's called Prince Fu. Anyway, it's the prince's mansion in China, ah in Beijing. it's not that It's not the Forbidden City. It's like kind of the number two guy.
00:05:06
Speaker
And I think it's Prince Fu. oh Anyway, it's really beautiful because it's exactly what Asher just described. It's like a really nice garden with these covered corridors around it.
00:05:19
Speaker
It's so beautiful. So you wouldn't get rained on. You could walk basically outside in your corridor and yet it's still a corridor outside, right? Like what you're saying? Yes, and it just has a more opening feeling than yeah when you're in a Western corridor where you're enclosed in a narrow box.
00:05:35
Speaker
Totally. Yeah, give them I also give people now slack for their translating because we're not familiar with, you know, if you translate it weren word for word, you'll evoke the wrong image for us.
00:05:47
Speaker
I like that. What do you do? You have to make stuff up. You have to like shift things. i would I would really, i totally agree with you. I think you know some things culturally just don't make as much sense, but that's where I would say um a good translator really should use the footnote and say, by corridor, we mean an open space as much as possible.
00:06:08
Speaker
Because otherwise, you're memorizing that dude's channel, not the Nei Jing's channel.
Preserving Integrity in Historical Texts
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, it's literally lost in translation. Yeah. So, yeah. We have all these neat things the citation, which are make things a pain to read, but also that's what they're for, footnotes.
00:06:27
Speaker
Exactly. Just like when you translate that, you know, throughout the 2,000 years that the Neijing has been commentated on, no one is like... you know what? I think the Neijing, I'm just going to swap this word out.
00:06:38
Speaker
No one in China would ever think to do that. That's like, that's talk about like the biggest faux pas of all time. But there's a business. Yeah, exactly. It feels religious. Yeah.
00:06:50
Speaker
But then when it comes to, I mean, there was a million different commentaries where they'll have that, right? So every Neijing is written like this, like there are like it's this sometimes not even a full paragraph. And then it's all they're talking about it, describing how other people 500 years commentated on it and so forth.
00:07:07
Speaker
That's how these should all be translated in the West. And I think they would if people gave it enough credit. and If they thought that channel should never be um fiddled with, unless you really think that you can do more than the original Ne Jing did, which boy, how big does someone's head have to be?
00:07:25
Speaker
If their head is that big, it's probably swollen, in which case we call that toi. Yeah, da toi. There's a name of a disease that you have a giant swollen head, um and it's not just pride in that one. That really is an actual epidemic disease.
00:07:41
Speaker
And you don't use kidny anyone to ground that, right? Exactly. Good point, good point. Okay, so yeah, we don't make ah changes to religious ah documents.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah. That you're trying to preserve. I mean, that makes sense. in ah In the Jewish tradition, the Torah, which was handwritten and rewritten over and over again, you allowed three mistakes in the entire thing. you made more than that, you had a you had basically, you buried it and you had to start over again.
00:08:08
Speaker
Right. People copying texts over. i mean, it was pretty important to keep a ah lineage. Right. ah going. um And oral traditions are much the same where you you start to practice and recite for in front of all your colleagues to to even get the the status of ah being able to carry that oral tradition back down.
00:08:27
Speaker
Totally.
Humor in Translation Challenges
00:08:28
Speaker
It's kind of like that joke. You heard the one about like the Franciscan monk. And they like they they'd been using their copy of the the Bible for so long that he's like, you know what? It's time we get ah another copy.
00:08:40
Speaker
Let's go back down into the vault. So get the oldest of copy that nobody ever touches. And and and ah you over there, Johansson or something, why don't you why don't you go down and and spend a couple months just copying this word for word?
00:08:52
Speaker
And then the guy's down there for a month or something. and then finally they hear this like, no. And the guys were rushing down and like, what's wrong? What's wrong? did You know, that the book, you know, is it broken? What's going on? And he's like, dude, it says celebrate instead of celebrate. Yeah.
00:09:09
Speaker
Nice. Anyway. Yeah. it It's important. It's a ah important. It's important. Yeah.
Misconceptions about Lung Channel in TCM
00:09:16
Speaker
So after we have the going back to the belonging to the lung, we have ascends to the throat.
00:09:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's wrong. Doesn't exist.
00:09:28
Speaker
So, and you know, you can see why, too. It's like we we always use lung points to treat the throat. You know, there's like a lot of ah of Western, you know, you want to associate lung with esophagus. Mm-hmm.
00:09:40
Speaker
make it a one-to-one and, oh, here, let's but let's shift the channel a little bit maybe. So what is what does the Neijing text say after it belongs to the one? Yeah, it says nothing about a throat.
00:09:51
Speaker
And, you know, from our our perspective, it's like, well, we just talked about the liver. That goes to the throat. That goes to not just the throat, but even the Hong Song in the throat. you know There's other stomach channel, of course, descends down the throat.
00:10:04
Speaker
But that's why like don't wing it. right don't if If maybe you put an asterisk and be like, when we say um like the lung system, maybe you can think about it as part of including the throat.
00:10:16
Speaker
That's up to the person to think about. That should never change the original. So what it says in Chinese, it says, 从肺细横出夜下. So from the lung system, so from the lung system It heng chu, it exits horizontally.
00:10:33
Speaker
xia. Song fei xi heng chu ye xia. Ye xia means below the armpit. And so it's exiting horizontally underneath the armpit. So, so key here. First of all, never set the throat.
00:10:47
Speaker
Second of all, if it goes to the throat, it then would have to descend instead of exiting horizontally. So we know it doesn't go there because they literally described verb, obviously, how it's exiting horizontally outside the chest.
00:11:02
Speaker
So from the lungs horizontally. And then they said underneath the armpit. There it is. There it is. That's the original. So there's here's that's a big one is it's not going to the throat.
Implications of Translation Inaccuracies in TCM
00:11:15
Speaker
And doesn't mean you can't use lung stuff or lung points for throat stuff. But remember, no one that I know in China really thinks of it that way. So you know this is another thing where people like are like, well, it's kind of splitting hairs, the lung system.
00:11:28
Speaker
We already described it. Don't add stuff to it. And how could it go above if it's coming out horizontally? Then it would have to descend. So we know it doesn't go there. Furthermore, the best points for treating throat symptoms are not on the lung channel.
00:11:43
Speaker
They're really not. ah The yin chow mai, very nice. Yin wei mai point, very nice. Liver points, stomach points, all of these could work. But we I've never seen anyone in China use those those throat points or the the lung channel for addressing the throat.
00:12:00
Speaker
um So I think people, yeah, they you know it really does throw people off. So it's not just the splitting hairs component. It's actually like truly misguided information. Yeah, absolutely. And then you're in clinic and if you're going off of indications, then maybe you don't think two to go use that stomach channel for for the throat because it's there, but it's not as
Challenges in Teaching TCM with Incorrect Translations
00:12:22
Speaker
prevalent. And it's not the first thing you think of, then you might be a little ah lost or yeah misguided.
00:12:29
Speaker
For sure. For sure. So speaking of stomach, yes let's go to this bad boy. oh yeah. And where does it start? Because we started with this. We teased it about an hour ago. Maybe it was last week. I don't know what it'll get cut into.
00:12:47
Speaker
ah But so yeah, where is that that darn stomach channel start? Yeah. So, and again, this also, i have to tell people, I do like Dedman's book. I think he just, I think he got a lot of his information correct. So as much as I like to rip on Machocha and other people, I don't actually rip on Dedman because I think he did a great service to...
00:13:08
Speaker
people here. um I think his point location is usually quite correct. I would assume now I ah a little bit boo-boo with the liver ones, but otherwise great. um I think his needling technique, as far as how to needle the points, I've never once seen a problem with that. I think his depth is correct. I think his angling is correct.
00:13:26
Speaker
Now I need to preface to people. I've probably read five pages of his book in totality. But that's enough to catch a lot of errors in most books. um And I usually start complaining way before five pages are done.
00:13:38
Speaker
That's one page. Stephen, what do you think of this book? Well, I opened it up and I read a page and I was like, nope, but not not for me. I'm not even joking, dude. that yeah as Someone is trying to just ask me what's the best translation of the Nei Jing and I was like, I don't think it's there.
00:13:55
Speaker
um i just don't think it exists. And they were like, well, I've got this book. I told them the best way to know if it's like a good starting point for a book is if it's got Chinese on one side and English on the other. And that's just to keep the translator honest because if the Chinese is on one side of the page and the English is on the other, they can't just riff.
00:14:13
Speaker
They can't just be like, and then the rolling clouds said to Chibo. And you're like, what? where where to Where are the rolling clouds? yeah Yeah. So people just like to roll ah on their own accords anyway.
00:14:27
Speaker
So the the key here is you got to have one that has both. So um as we were just talking about, ah one one of the teachers at the Denver school, she's like, okay, I got a book. I want to see if it's good. And she um she showed it to me.
00:14:39
Speaker
Chinese on one side, English on the other. ah First sentence, wrong. right So that's a case where you just I literally just opened it up to a
Skepticism Towards TCM Translators and Resources
00:14:48
Speaker
page. i was like, I've never read any of these. Let's open it up.
00:14:50
Speaker
That's wrong. That's wrong. right like Because you can literally see the Chinese is on one side. This is what they're trying to translate, the English on the other. that's I mean, at least they put it there though, right? It's not just them winging it.
00:15:02
Speaker
But that, of course, tells us that... um Yeah, there's really no great translation. The best one I've found so far is Nimaoxing's translation. It might be something. is that the one with the elephant name?
00:15:14
Speaker
Is that humming with elephants? or No, no, I don't know. Anyway, Nimaoxing. Humming with elephants is ah the lady. Sabine? Sabine, I think. Oh, so it's it was so then it's not that one. It's whatever Nimaoxing's version is.
00:15:28
Speaker
It's not the complete Suwen version. I don't believe it's the whole Suen. um Anyway, that one's the closest I've i've found. um And i'm you know I'm not trying to diss anybody here because it is really hard to translate these classics.
00:15:42
Speaker
um That's why they've been mistranslated so difficult or so often because it is so difficult. um So like you need to know the context. And here's a really, really important one.
00:15:53
Speaker
And I know this should be obvious, I think, but there's a lot of people who aren't doctors trying to translate these things. Yeah. Yeah, not obvious, I'll say, because I didn't know for a long time that the guy who wrote Cam wasn't a doctor.
00:16:10
Speaker
um And you just run into this all the time where people are, maybe they're good at Chinese language and they're good translators and they take a crack at um Chinese medicine.
00:16:21
Speaker
yeah And you can fall short real quick, I think, probably because. Oh, yeah, real quick. Because how do you know? If you have never seen a ministerial fire go down and strengthen a kidney yang pulse, how does anyone know what that means?
00:16:37
Speaker
like I'm not also trying to rip on those people either, but how do they know? you know like For instance, we were talking about Unschuld, no dis on a human here. I guess I broke that rule pretty bad of a joke, but he's because he misguided our entire field.
00:16:52
Speaker
But so Unschuld, I guess, is one of the people who people rely on for translations of the Nei Jing. Big problems there. not a doctor. He's not a Chinese medicine doctor. As far as I know, he's not a Western medicine doctor, but who really cares about that?
00:17:04
Speaker
He's not a doctor. He doesn't understand our medicine. So like i was i was we can go into the exact um passage if you guys want at some point, but he translated this whole passage and he kept talking about vessels the whole time.
00:17:16
Speaker
And we're just talking about pulses. So it's not the sum of- Yeah, let's go into You want that one? Yeah. Take a quick detour from our channels and other detours. to The divergent channels continue.
00:17:30
Speaker
Uh-huh. It comes up with us a lot because people will say, i mean, I've heard so many different things where it's like, women's pulse is on the left, it's on the right. Right. Men's pulse is on the right, on the left.
00:17:42
Speaker
there's ah There's a lot of different things going out around there. And no one knows that I knew where where it came from. Yeah. Well, all of that really comes from ah but a simple phrase in Chinese called nanzo new york which means men on the left, women on the right.
00:17:58
Speaker
But it's not saying men's pulses are flipped from women's pulses because if it is we might as well
Misinterpretation of Pulse Reading Differences in TCM
00:18:04
Speaker
flip our livers. We might as well flip where our heart is. so but don't poke, I guess, on the right side of a chest for ladies instead of the left.
00:18:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That confusing. it's Yeah, it's really wacky. And so so if you know there are practitioners out there that tell you that these pulses are switched for men and women, um I've seen that since I came back to to America.
00:18:28
Speaker
I have never seen that in 11 years in China. Not once did any master ever flip the pulses and read their liver pulse on the right side instead of the left. So, I mean, maybe, but don't forget that they're trying to then say that this is true based on classics. And so this was one phrase from that classic, um from the Neijing, the first half, the Suwen, they say chapter 48 here.
00:18:53
Speaker
And I guess this Unschult's translation here. I'll just read it for you. It says, um when the stomach vessel is in the depth and drums, and open bracket, when the skin above it is, closed bracket, rough, or when the stomach vessel drums outside and is big, or when the heart vessel is small, firm, and tense, all these bracket are signs of bracket a barrier and unilateral withering.
00:19:19
Speaker
In males bracket these signs bracket develop on the left. In females, they develop on the right. So that's where they're trying to, this is where, again, some doctors or academics have then said, because it's on the left for men um and on the right for women, that we should switch the pulses.
00:19:39
Speaker
That's yeah total misinformation. This whole line, which is mistranslated. And first of all, it's not translated at all clearly here by Unschold. No, it's such a bad translation because you're not,
00:19:51
Speaker
One, I was like, are you word for wording it from the Chinese or are you trying to get me to understand it? It's like you're straddled in the middle and I don't get either. Right. um So yeah, not not a great translation. And then also, is that where the quote ends?
00:20:05
Speaker
it was So that's not where it ends. So then they cherry picked and then they ended it early. And the whole point of this passage is talking about paralysis that starts on the left or the right side of the face. Right.
00:20:17
Speaker
This has nothing to do with pulses. um And so you can see people will cherry pick from the classics and sometimes they won't even finish the sentence because if they did, it would mean something entirely different from what they're trying to manipulate the information into being.
00:20:32
Speaker
So ah can't hate that enough, right? Who tries to manipulate people with misinformation? Bad people. No, or yeah, I don't know what it is. It's the ego or, but it's, it's no bueno. I'll tell you that. And, and to be real, it's like, if we, if you did this in English, if you quoted, you know, just if we're all in English and you just quoted somebody else in English and you cut them off mid sentence that you could say what you wanted to say and right not say rest of it, like,
00:21:05
Speaker
your academic integrity would be scoffed at, to say the least. And you wouldn't have any academic standing. So it's a bummer that you can get away with it when you're translating because it's harder for people to call you out.
00:21:20
Speaker
Exactly. It's like if someone was like said this phrase, like it's bad to have children leave school at 4.30. And someone cuts it and says, it's bad to have children.
00:21:30
Speaker
Children. period Yeah. So abstinence? Yeah. And you're like, that's not what they said. But it's it's frustrating when they're pulling from Chinese because who catches them?
00:21:42
Speaker
I mean, obviously, I guess that's my job, right? But there's not a whole lot of people in our field who are pretty regularly reading the classics and doing that. But there's got to be enough to catch these people from spreading misinformation. So, um you know, my my advice to you guys is learn at least a little bit of Chinese so you don't get tossed around and just get manipulated in ways that you really don't want to be. Yeah.
00:22:08
Speaker
I mean, don't take my word for it. Learn your Chinese. But so, and this is the other thing that I think about all, not all the time, but it comes up always on a podcast too, where it's like, if we just had a little bit better foundations that were more direct of a transmission from the classics, right you'd have less problems. There'd be less um ah charlatans running around because they wouldn't be able to yank your chain. Cause you'd be like, yo, I know this stuff. I know the basics, but as it stands, it's like, ah Well, actually, my basics are a little shaky because...
Translation Errors in TCM Pulse Interpretation
00:22:41
Speaker
Because who who if Wundrell doesn't have Chapter 48 right in the Suen, who does? Yeah, um I don't know. It's...
00:22:49
Speaker
Machocha? Probably not. Because Machocha was mixing and matching a bunch of different quotes the last time we looked at some of his stuff. So yeah it's and's so tough. Problematic.
00:23:02
Speaker
Do you want what that that that a phrase was actually saying? That excerpt? Yeah. So what it should have been translated into is if the stomach pulse, not vessel here, it's the same word, my.
00:23:14
Speaker
But obviously, if you're a practitioner, you know it's a stomach pulse is deep and choppy. Deep and choppy. but We know that. Yeah, exactly. It is a pulse.
00:23:26
Speaker
So it's like if you're a practitioner, that's not that hard. And so then you're like, okay, well, how come this dude who's not a practitioner translated it wrong? Well, because he doesn't take pulses, right?
00:23:37
Speaker
So that's a no bueno. Anyway, so the whole thing goes, if the stomach pulse is deep and choppy or superficial and big, notice these are actually words that we use, and the heart vessel is small, tight, and fast, these are signs of yin and yang being separated.
00:23:54
Speaker
And so they can lead to one-sided paralysis. If men have paralysis on the left, women on the right, and this is where they and didn't finish the sentence, it should say, and the tongue and speech works properly, then this can be treated effectively within a month.
00:24:10
Speaker
Never once did they switch pulses for men and women here. They're talking about the prognosis based on is the paralysis on the left or the right side for men and women.
Correcting Misinformation in TCM Channels
00:24:20
Speaker
Nice and simple.
00:24:23
Speaker
If only it was. yeah yeah so we have problems with our our translators we got problems with some of our teaching institutions unfortunately um but it doesn't mean you guys should give up hopefully what i'm we're trying to get across is i mean look how much asher has already learned and i mean you did this mostly yourself right like the point names and like you're already learning chinese on your own sure a little bit trying uh ah
00:24:54
Speaker
But see, and this is and this, I'm just going to repeat it again. is like It would be nice when you learned it the first time if it was right. Because now, because I had it memorized. you know It's like I and know very very clearly, i know the stomach channel starts where the heart's intestine channel ends.
00:25:09
Speaker
And now I have to think about, oh, but it actually starts at the inner canthus of the eye. Yintang. Is that what? Starts at yintang. Yeah. Well, I thought things don't start at points, my dude.
00:25:20
Speaker
Well, it's not a point. It's an extra point. no. Okay. Technically, it starts at an anatomical landmark. That is yin tongue. So let's get back to that because that's where we were coming from. yeah So yeah if you go back to the stomach channel, it says ah um the stomach channel, it begins, right? So it starts out with stomach.
00:25:43
Speaker
the stomach, foot, yangming channel. so the the stomach foot yang m channel two b juiaao er zhong which means it starts at or originates at the the connecting point or the intersection between the nose and the brow.
00:26:01
Speaker
That's yin tang. That's where the nose meets the brow, the forehead. That's yin tang. And what the point here is, yin tang actually isn't a point. So I know you get it's now it's added at the end of the Ren channel in China.
Significance of Yintang in TCM
00:26:15
Speaker
Is that the number here? Yeah, they they just stuck it at the end. Of Ren, not do. um Yeah, it's on the Rand channel. Huh. I've heard it being... No, is it... Do they stick it on the do?
00:26:28
Speaker
It's a good question. Yeah, I think I've heard it being put on the end of the do channel before, which is weird, but okay. Maybe that's right. Because i just remember the number sequence was funny because we don't learn numbers again, remember?
00:26:41
Speaker
But they were like, well, you you can't tell us that it's in the line because it's not there. It's not listed. And so they just added it at the end. So like, you just kind of circle back to it.
00:26:52
Speaker
It's like a footnote. Yeah. I'm like, are they trying to get that? You know, cause what in, um, if you're running the, the microcosmic orbit. Yes.
00:27:03
Speaker
you know You run up to do and then you get to... Ren Zhong? Yeah, above the lip. Yep, Ren Zhong. ah And then of course you can jump to Ren, but I've also heard practices of circling Qi up there in in your brain.
00:27:19
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, oh, maybe it's kind of that idea ah it, like running back, like a backward turning wheel, just like how you have in your lower Dan Tian. don't you know that one. You bet. That little bit too. You bet, you bet. so yeah I'm still being, see, the problem is being a baby still. You got to try to like take all the information in and make it mesh.
00:27:38
Speaker
And I'm slowly getting to the point where I can start being like, discarding this, discarding that. Right, right. No, I'm discerning that this is bullshit. We're just going to cut this guy out. And then, um but in the meantime, you just got to try to hold it all, I think, and make it jiggle.
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah. And then see what works and see what doesn't. I mean, we're yeah we're kind of blessed with the clinic in that way, right? But so yin tang has always been an extra point. it's It's just up until, I guess, white people came or something.
00:28:09
Speaker
it's It's always been an extra point. And it's always had the name yin tang, which is an interesting name but all by itself, ah like a location or a stamp. But anyway,
00:28:21
Speaker
Yeah, so it's it's that space there because yin is like, it's this interior part of yin, but it's got an extra mark on it. Anyway, we we'll we'll just skip that for now because people don't need to remember that.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah. But it does actually kind of connect to Koju Ren if we ever want to get back to that later. Like we were talking about the that Koju Ren area. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay. Because it's like the final meaning point.
00:28:43
Speaker
Any hoodie, maybe we'll jump back in. Another time. So here we know that yin tang is a point. It's always been an extra point. But this is a really interesting point is if it's the beginning of the stomach channel. Yeah, i know, point on point, right?
00:28:56
Speaker
So if it's the beginning of the stomach channel, and then from there, it descends down. It does interconnect with the taonng the foot taiyang channel, the bladder. And then we know it kind of its whole facial branch then comes down up the jaw and so forth.
00:29:09
Speaker
And then it ends, and tell me if this is in Deadman's one, it should end at Shunting, whatever this point is. Yeah, the inner courtyard. i was going to ask about that.
00:29:19
Speaker
He does that? He ends there? ah you were just gonna ask about the name? No, I was going to say from the corner of the head, which is Stomach 8, there's a line that goes over and connects with Shunting, and he even writes it as a like a overlapping point.
00:29:36
Speaker
Yes. So if you look at Shenting, it's like, oh, the bladder and the stomach channel both meet here. Yes. At Shenting? Yes. Absolutely. So the stomach goes all the way up there, the bladder kind of, yeah.
00:29:49
Speaker
And then certainly the dew channel does, right? Yeah. I mean, it's on the do channel. It's on the do channel. But this is a really interesting point now because we've got the first branch of the stomach channel, which is on the face.
00:30:01
Speaker
um The first part of it, we'll call that so people realize branch is the the main channel here. It starts at yin tang, ends at shunting. One shun calmer to another.
00:30:13
Speaker
And so people then, you know, but this is an interesting point because some people just toss on shun calmers. You see this with herbs too. They're like, oh, you're not sleeping good. We'll just go to this part of the index and looks like swan zha ren and yuen zhi and um let's do some fushun in there.
00:30:30
Speaker
And they just keep listing random herbs that say they call the shun. Calling the shun, but... Throw the kitchen sink out of it. One of these 18 herbs will definitely get the spot.
00:30:41
Speaker
And you're like, no, no, no, no. All of those herbs calm a different part of the shen. So when we say calming shen herbs, just like calming shen points, well, what point, ah like which part of the shen are you trying to calm?
Yintang's Role in Sleep and Stomach Disharmony
00:30:55
Speaker
And it really goes to show that yin tang is is for stomach disharmony causing sleeping problems. We know it's great for sleeping, we know it's good for calming, but what kind of sleeping problems is it really good for?
00:31:08
Speaker
When the stomach is upsurging, right? When it's in counterflow, but sometimes I've heard rebelling, which is adorable and also mistranslated. The whole point is when the stomach is not descending properly, people don't sleep well.
00:31:20
Speaker
Check out how many people you know eat a giant meal like Thanksgiving and then just have like a rocket night of sleep when their stomach is totally full and has like all this undigested food in it. Hell yeah no.
00:31:31
Speaker
Or the opposite, what if they're really stomach hunger, yeah maybe have stomach fire and so forth. When the stomach is not in harmony, which really means descending properly, you can't sleep well, you can't calm properly.
00:31:42
Speaker
That's what yin tang is for. But people wouldn't know that if they didn't know that's where the stomach channel started. No. And yeah, I've never thought of doing that. And then I think the other point of it starting at one gen point and ending at another is another interesting thing to mull over.
00:31:59
Speaker
Like how Shen is the beginning and the end? The Alpha and the Omega? Yeah. And then ah another one too I'll just say is that... um You know, starting the stomach channel there also brings in a lot for the Yang Ming headaches being where they are. Heck yeah.
00:32:14
Speaker
Before you had the liver channel, which, or sorry, the intestine channel, which didn't go there. um And then you have the stomach, which wrapped around the outside and then went across the top. But then when you start it in the middle, it's kind of like it butterflied over the entire face. Exactly. Actually,
00:32:29
Speaker
It really does just make butterfly wings over your face, doesn't It it does. it It exactly does because it comes up both sides. Like two lung lungs or like two lobes of the lungs. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Or like those goofy...
00:32:42
Speaker
um pictures of remember those old maps that we used to have in like elementary school where they tried to put a round earth on a flat thing. And you're like, that's a goofy shape for the world.
00:32:53
Speaker
know. Kind of droopy. You also don't realize how close like Australia is to whatever else is on the other corner. You're like, what? You're supposed to go over all this blank space in the middle.
00:33:04
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Right. Oh, it's so confusing. Yeah. Globes, globes are nicer. Look at a globe. Yeah, exactly. Yep. So that's a, that's a key point is just, um, so this goes for the whole point we were talking about, right. We kind of just winged it on the liver one.
00:33:20
Speaker
Um, but like where they start and where they end, where's the correct channel, where are the correct points on that channel?
Understanding Channel Flow in TCM Practice
00:33:26
Speaker
So much information. Yeah. I mean, and and and then the verbs again, telling you what to do and like where the channel goes all seems pretty foundational for an acupuncturist to know where the channel flows on that we're, that we're working with. Um,
00:33:42
Speaker
So good good to brush up on and good to – well, we'll wait for sure for your translated book coming out in the future years. Sorry about that. I'm slow on that project.
00:33:54
Speaker
Well, ah the world doesn't rest on your shoulders, but it's a bummer that with all the translations we have, we can't get something a little closer. Yeah. Well, we're moving in the direction. You had a great point about um but how to shift sta like your posture, like physical posture based on the channels too. Oh,
00:34:12
Speaker
Well, we were, you know, you've hinted at this before where you go, oh, the Nejing channels, they're actually describing a certain body posture. Correct. And for me, I just have, you know, Western body posture, um which I think will wind up fairly well. But, you know, it's like ears over shoulders, shoulder over your chest and ribs. Nice. important.
00:34:31
Speaker
Chest going over your pelvis. And then... And then your hip should be over your knee and knee over the ankle. um And you can do another one where you drop a plumb line from the kidney one.
00:34:42
Speaker
Yeah. And go up through, they go up through the knee. don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can go right through the knee, right through the hip and ideally through, is it gallbladder 21?
Body Posture and Energy Flow in TCM
00:34:52
Speaker
at Top of the shoulders. Yeah.
00:34:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. So a lot of you going in China, they'll, they'll tell you that you want to line up gallbladder 21 to kidney one. especially in just like a moderate stance, right? Not like a wide horse stance. not Correct. Yeah. Yeah. This is like a standard, like standing meditation so stance or something like that, or holding ball.
00:35:14
Speaker
Sure. Who doesn't love holding ball? I mean, it's, it's so great. I mean, you can do so many things with it. At first it just looks like, you know, hippies in the park or something.
00:35:24
Speaker
Um, And then if you watch someone who does like martial arts do it, you're like, oh there's different things in this Taiji balls. There's so much to learn in holding ball.
00:35:37
Speaker
I mean, so we sometimes my martial arts teacher in China too, so I studied with Dr. Guo and Master Gao, so different sound. know they sound a little similar.
00:35:49
Speaker
Master Gao is my martial arts a teacher there for learning baguazhang. um like uh bagua or pakua sometimes people use that pronunciation um so so cool cool and he would sometimes make a stand and holding ball for like uh an hour wow yeah it's a little hard on the shoulders and he used to be like if it's hard on your shoulders if it's painful it's because you're holding tension i was like well that might be true but it's still hard on my shoulders yeah Right, right. Like, ah how do I get the tension out of like, yeah, the tension's there. And then holding this posture is bringing more to the... Yeah. Because that's what happens, right? It's like wherever all the deficiencies or whatever is not working right, yeah like that part's going to kind of scream loud. And then you either have to shift the entire posture too. Right. But actually there's, yeah, there's probably like an internal...
00:36:42
Speaker
whatever change that needs to happen to to lessen that it's initial kind of force. Yeah. There is a little struggle. and And he's right. like The more you're like, oh, this is painful. Oh, if I just align this way, oh it did get better.
00:36:57
Speaker
So it is a good teaching tool, the pain. yeah But well, that's actually why I like people to lie on hard surfaces. Because if you lie down on a hard surface, you'll feel where the body's holding tension.
00:37:09
Speaker
That's a good point, man. a hard surface to relax against. And when you let it go, you might still feel like a little bit of tension, but it'll be diffused over a larger surface area. Love Because that trigger point is no longer like the one and it's the whole area is kind of doing it.
00:37:24
Speaker
I think actually you're calling, when you call a holding ball, I think we call it, or I've called it like a standing tree or something. like hugging a tree? Yeah, you're not talking about ah the Taiji ball where you go from side to side. no, no. talking about just the one. just thought Okay, yeah. yeah Yeah, that that second, or I don't know if everybody counts it. So we count that as the kind of the second main Qigong posture in Taiji is that rotating from side to side, yep.
00:37:50
Speaker
Okay, but you were just referring to that. The standing one where you're just like, yeah, it looks to kind of like you're hugging a tree. It's true. Yeah. And in that posture, you kind of have a, I've had it described a little bit as like ah diamond a diamond, not diamond, a pyramid, a triangle between, well, you have the stacking bit between, um you know, up your, so up on your spine or however you like to think about that. But then you also have your arms as like this kind of counterbalance.
00:38:18
Speaker
Yes. And that'd be like the point of the triangle. Ah, like chest or torso being one point, hands being another and feet being another. Yeah. Kind of like that. I see what you're talking about.
00:38:29
Speaker
i would um So it's kind of like a triangle or a cone. People could think about it that way. And there's definitely it's definitely like pulling or having a connection between your hands and your feet like a rubber band.
00:38:42
Speaker
So that's the best way to think about
Dynamic Energy in Stillness: Meditation and Qigong
00:38:44
Speaker
it. And Dr. Guo, or I'm sorry, Master Gao used to say that all the time. So there's kind of like three rubber bands that you want to feel in that posture. And it's one like vertically from your hands to your feet.
00:38:56
Speaker
ah The second one is ah front to back. So it's between your hands and your chest. And then the third one is, let's see, we've got top to bottom, front to back is left to right. And that's where you're pulling it wide and opening.
00:39:09
Speaker
So it's like between your hands. So if you get these three rubber bands, the reason why he likes the term rubber band, which is also a fun word in Chinese, la pijer, besides it being an adorable word, is because it gives it dynamism.
00:39:23
Speaker
So people don't realize that when you're not moving, it doesn't mean you should be like nothing or a flaccid or any of these things. There's dynamism in the non-movement of it. And it's because you feel everything moving internally.
00:39:36
Speaker
And so when people have this idea of being like in a place that they're holding, but with the rubber band pulling in them and all these different directions, that's the dynamism. There's no tension. There should be no tension, but that's the the the activity that you're looking for in what looks like an inactive position.
00:39:54
Speaker
Totally. I mean, we, in the West, this is talked about a lot with tensegrity and it's kind of a lot of base of a lot of
Managing Tension in Athletes with TCM Insights
00:40:01
Speaker
movement, right? Where you need a certain amount of tension on the rubber band to, to get your leg to work.
00:40:07
Speaker
Runners have tight legs and it's important for them to have tight legs because it's their spring. And if you just stretched out the leg, if you just like, ah took the spring and made it so it didn't have any you know tension in it yeah um or yeah none of that what like potential kinetic energy totally right and just like got rid of all of it well you're not going to run very well um so it is important for like keeping yeah that body posture and then being able to move out of that body posture with uh with strength and agility heck yeah heck yeah
00:40:41
Speaker
You ever seen, I remember Usain Bolt or whatever, he sometimes will have like a massage table on the track. when he's training and like he'll do the fastest sprint in the world. And then he jumps on the table and his massage therapist immediately rubs out his calves.
00:40:59
Speaker
And then he goes and does it again and gets rubbed out because like the contraction he's putting in to run faster than everyone else is phenomenal. And so then he just needs to stop over contracting his muscles. Exactly.
00:41:12
Speaker
So it's kind of like healthy tone. Tone is like tension. It's just the healthy one that she circulates through properly and everything else. Right. It's not too much. Cause that would be like a too stiff. It'd be rigid. And then it's not slack.
00:41:26
Speaker
That's right. It's it's. So I like to tell people like, we're not looking for flaccid or slack. We're looking for like healthy tone. Yeah. Yeah. And you feel enough bodies and and you'll, and you'll kind of figure it out. That's so true. Um,
00:41:41
Speaker
So rolling out is a far better, and this is like in the Western science now too, where rolling out is a better warm up and even warm down than stretching. Stretching pulls too much out of that.
00:41:54
Speaker
it can like make it slack, right? And the rolling out just kind of eases out the the stiffness, eases out the rigidity, but you still have um spring.
00:42:06
Speaker
Love it. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. Rolling out. We have rolling method. Hopefully, Usain Bolt's massage therapist does that. The Tweenaw one with the back of the hand? Yeah, exactly the the kind of side edge of the hand, yeah.
00:42:20
Speaker
Yeah, that was brutal. Well, it's not always taught very clearly. We can go over that at some point too because every time I come back or every time I've looked at ah Americans trying to do rolling method, that is what we call the floppy fish.
00:42:33
Speaker
And floppy fish is not rolling method.
Learning Traditional Massage Techniques
00:42:37
Speaker
No, it's, well, I think it's just so tricky because it's not like a, it's an a not a movement that we've done a lot. And then like the strength that isn't there.
00:42:47
Speaker
It's hard. It's tough. Yeah. I remember I had, so we had, actually, we had a pretty good Twina professor, I think, in our schooling. um Didn't speak great English, but what, I mean, it's a kinetic thing. So whenever he tried to show me, I'd just be like, no, do it to me. And he'd do it to me and I'd do it back to him.
00:43:06
Speaker
And he'd be like, yeah, yeah, but a little bit like this. And then we'd just keep on doing that for a couple minutes. And I was like, okay, I get it. You basically can't do it for a very time. yeah yeah yeah right I still couldn't do it for very long and I still don't use it because it's just so much more foreign than other things yeah um that but that was definitely a that was all we did all we did was roll really all the like that's the only hand technique you guys did oh I mean we did other ones but like rolling was like 60% if not more of every kind of like this is this what you do you go roll up the mountain this way you roll up the mountain that way don't roll down the mountain just keep on rolling up
00:43:43
Speaker
Interesting. Yeah. Maybe it was like an overemphasis of the phrase, this is how we roll. Yeah. I mean, this is what was funny. I was like, where's the tui and the na?
00:43:54
Speaker
Where's the push and pull? buddy And an in the muo. Technically, tui na is only half of the four words that you usually see. It's called tui na, an muo. What's an muo? Tui. So yeah, tui is to, so an means to press in.
00:44:09
Speaker
Muo means to like rub in a circular way. like a circular method. um You could also sometimes translate that as need. Nah is to grasp and twee is to push in a lot, like a longitudinal, like lengthwise motion.
00:44:24
Speaker
Ah, sure. You can see how sloppy my verbs sound in English. This is the challenge. Well, we learned all those hand motions. I would say did good in that respect.
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah. Grasping. Yeah. I had to teach people how to milk me. That was the most awkward thing ever. you make some cheese? Yeah, no no no one got any cheese from it.
00:44:47
Speaker
um Oh, so let's get to the like the posture, right? Yeah, yeah, thank you.
00:44:54
Speaker
So if we continue with the lung channel, for example, we continue, we we are already got to 从飞系横出叶下, so from the lung system horizontally exiting below the armpit,
00:45:05
Speaker
Then it continues and it says, 下訓腦内前脸 descends along the forward edge of the inner upper arm. Here's a big highlight point. How many of you guys were learning the lung channel and were like, why is that a yin channel if it feels like it's on the outside of my bicep?
00:45:24
Speaker
Exactly. Chinese anatomical posture versus American Western posture. that's so Yeah, exactly. So this is our first reminder. It's like, well, there's only one way to make the forward edge of our bicep.
00:45:39
Speaker
And notice that it does use the word forward edge, the inside of our body. And as you might guess, it's standing holding ball. So when you lift your arm up like this, the forward edge of your bicep is actually facing the interior of where you would kind of hug that tree.
Verbs Describing Channel Movement in TCM
00:45:57
Speaker
And the outer side, or the what we'd call the backside in this terminology, would be considered the yang side, which the large intestine indeed is. So that's the first one is, I kind of ah spoiled it.
00:46:08
Speaker
it's It's a holding wall position, but that's how we know it's got to be biceps to the facing to the front. And then it continues and it says, um well, we'll just finish off the channel. It says travels in front of the Shaoyan and the heart controlled.
00:46:22
Speaker
That's fascinating too. It says in front of the hand Shaoyan channel, they just call it Shaoyan, and in front of the heart controlled channel. They don't even give the pericardium its own name.
00:46:33
Speaker
They just say it's the channel controlled by the heart. So you can see pericardium isn't even considered a main channel. It's considered basically a great law of the heart. And that's why we treat so many things through it when we're trying to treat heart stuff.
00:46:48
Speaker
Then it descends into the elbow. So key. It actually says, 下周中, inside the elbow. Now this word, 中, is a little bit tricky. So for those of you actually learning Chinese or keeping up at home,
00:47:03
Speaker
It's true. It can also talk about ah arriving at a certain area, but here they literally said descend. So descend to the elbow. They don't have to say into. So that's an additional ah further definitive thing telling us we're actually going deep inside an elbow.
00:47:21
Speaker
So why is that so important? Well, what if you want to get deep in an elbow, let's say into a joint space or a joint capsule, you would pick channels that the verbiage tells you, literally the verbs,
00:47:32
Speaker
that it's going inside a joint instead of going around a joint or passing a joint. It literally says going in. And so we know, of course, we can get pretty deep inside that joint space with the lung channel.
00:47:44
Speaker
Then it continues and it says follows the lower edge of the upper bone of the inner forearm. lot of words here. So, so it follows the lower edge of the
Lung Channel Path and Traditional Verb Usage
00:47:59
Speaker
upper bone. Now, what is the upper bone? Well, we all know where the lung channel is.
00:48:02
Speaker
That's your radius, right? So it's going along the lower edge of the radius. Now, how do we make the radius the upper bone? You have to put your arm up right So it has to be radius above, all now below, and then you can see you're actually and continuing to stand in basically a holding ball position or tree-hugging position, however you want to call that one.
00:48:26
Speaker
Then it says it enters the twin call. Well, how can we call that the lung pulse that we take everywhere else, the main pulse that we take? How can we call it a twin call? It's right here because it enters into this cuncou.
00:48:38
Speaker
And there's actually even further reason why we call it cuncou. Cuncou literally means the opening or the mouth of the cun. And why a cun? Because the pulse points are roughly cun apart.
00:48:49
Speaker
um And so you see the twin pulse on top, the guan, which means a bridge or a bridge between two things. And then the chir pulse, because from the chir pulse down to your elbow, it should measure the length of a chir, which is basically a foot in chinese ah ancient Chinese yeah measuring system.
00:49:08
Speaker
Never knew that. Yeah. So that's why we get twin above because one twin away. Chir below because from there down to the elbow is one chir. And the guan is the bridge between the two. All right, then we go to, it ascends the fish.
00:49:22
Speaker
My students, more than one I think, complained about this. They're like, why do we have to memorize this? This is stupid. I don't want memorize ascends the fish. I'm like, and so I only taught this class, I think for one, maybe two semesters actually.
00:49:37
Speaker
But so I realized it's not everybody's cup of tea, but it's because that's how it's written. And so you don't change how it's written. You understand what are they talking about? Well, they're talking about the point yuji, which literally means fish mark. Fish belly. fishka Yeah, you're right. Exactly. It does mean fish belly though. So if I was going to describe it to someone, that's how I would say it.
00:49:57
Speaker
The word ji really means a marker or a landmark, but Asher's right. It doesn't mean the belly of the fish because it I guess fishing fishing people know it does look like the belly of a fish.
00:50:07
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. I mean, it kind of has that nice little sag. Yeah. You know. um Or like a nice little bump up in tonicity. That's what I'm looking for. there you go. You can check the strength of a spleen by seeing the bounce back and the tonicity of their UG.
00:50:24
Speaker
ah Oh. Yeah. So when you're taking in a pulse, add a little more. Yeah. Yeah. And that actually comes from something else, which is when we're a kid, this is the spleen part of our hand.
00:50:35
Speaker
Ah, okay. So we can still see how the spleen is functioning by checking that area out. Because this is your spleen channel in kiddies. And after about three years old, it shifts. So tie-in flips?
00:50:49
Speaker
Pulses don't flip, but tie-in. That's interesting. Tie-in overlaps? well As a kid? so yeah, well kids don't have yeah functional pulses. We don't take pulses below three because they they don't they're not useful.
00:51:03
Speaker
and That's why we read the finger. Did they show you how to read the finger? Yeah. So that's why we look at it instead. um But for kids, their five organs are all on their hand. So if you put your thumb in between your middle finger and your ring finger, then you can count it off like we know it.
00:51:19
Speaker
So there's wood. So your index finger is liver wood and then heart fire. that's why i have to stick this one in the middle because that's earth spleen. And then it's metal lungs for the ring finger and kidney spleen.
00:51:33
Speaker
water for the baby finger. Oh, very interesting. Yep. And then after three years old, um that all flips. Well, it just what doesn't flip, but it just shifts into the normal adult channels.
00:51:46
Speaker
Right. But that's why when we're doing kidney pediatrics, you can pretty much get 90% of all you need from the elbows on down. Damn. Cool.
00:51:56
Speaker
Yeah. And even later in life too, you can still look at the spleen function through that. Correct. Yeah. So it's it's kind of like a remnant, almost like a vestigial channel structure. Sure.
00:52:08
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and they're connected. It's like they're very much connected. They're both tie-in. Yeah, that's a great point. That was really good point. explain Spleen gives birth to lung. so Yeah. Solid.
00:52:19
Speaker
So, and then he sends the fish, follows the fish mark, or just the name, yuji, xun yuji, chu da zhi zhi duan, goes to the tip of the large finger, or as we know it, is the thumb.
00:52:30
Speaker
And then we already did its main branch. So that was the part and the really focus in on that direct. So the key here is, you know you can see um a lot of things, but now we were focusing in this last little bit on um posture.
Discovering TCM Channels through Meditation
00:52:44
Speaker
Well, I mean, besides it being kind of fun to think about, it also is really interesting because it basically explains to us how they discovered channels and they discovered them by meditating, right?
00:52:55
Speaker
If you stand in a holding ball long enough, you'll feel channel movement throughout your channels in your body. So even if you didn't know it, and if you even if you didn't learn it as an acupuncturist, you should be able to eventually feel where chi is moving in your body.
00:53:07
Speaker
And that's how they discovered where the channels are.
00:53:12
Speaker
Wasn't there a bit about Bantui being able to see channels or see disease directly into the body? that I think there is. and Or was that also – And then some of the people had like um invisible stomachs, so you could see what was going on inside of it.
00:53:28
Speaker
Oh. So that's why they say they could figure out what the herbs were doing. Right. It's beautiful, but obviously you can't see heat being cleared. But maybe it looks like steam.
00:53:40
Speaker
Yeah. But also, you know, always wondered too, it's like, well, what does C actually mean? Does C just mean like, no, and this very, you know, like, ah obvious way, like you would see, um or does it actually, are they actually referring to an optical ability to, to look into?
00:53:59
Speaker
That's a really solid point. um i will look back into that because BNT is really awesome. he He did so much for our medicine. Yeah. One might say that actually a lot of his work may have been continued and encapsulated in some of the formulas, even in the Shang Han Lun.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah. Hua Toa and him probably had both both had a big influence. Sweet. Any other posture channel stuff? I think that's it. What are you thinking?
00:54:27
Speaker
Sweet. No, I'm good. i I didn't have any thoughts on on channel posture. i don't I don't really know my channels as it turns out. Well, yeah the more that this information comes out, I think the more people will start figuring it out.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah. No, and it's not like, i mean, we do have a foundation and it's close. It might not be everything, but yeah. Then we just got to dig deeper. i mean, and if we go back to it, right, I think every acupuncturist probably has a dead man sitting around somewhere.
00:54:58
Speaker
I have it on my phone. Nice. I have from somebody else who isn't even an acupuncturist anymore. I still use their login info. Funny. That's so useful. yeah It's true. It's like this information. If you look at Dedman's, maybe he didn't get it all because he's very clear. He's he's very transparent. He doesn't speak Chinese.
00:55:17
Speaker
um I remember sawing seeing him on a video or something. So then clearly he had translators helping him translate these things, which is great. I mean, at least he was, you know, someone was doing it back then.
00:55:29
Speaker
um But the problem is, is either he messed up or the translators messed up or likely he added things maybe for additional clarity that probably aren't quite correct. So I guess the one encouraging thing though is he seems to add and he doesn't really seem to take away.
00:55:47
Speaker
So that's a good thing, right? So at least he's not skipping stuff, even if he's like adding things like the throat. I guess the stomach channel was a bit of a skip. Oops. Anyway, you can get close. So you either way, probably go back to your channels debmon and start there at least.
00:56:03
Speaker
Yeah. And then we'll be ah be on the lookout for Stephen Wong's book some later in the future. Very patient about that one, please. Be very patient. We will. i don't Don't hold your breath.
00:56:15
Speaker
Yeah. Or if you do share it with someone else. Aloha. Aloha. Take care, y'all. Cool. See you guys.