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'On the Phone' Film Premier with Kenny Sale and Matthew Kyle Levine
1 Plays3 seconds ago
When a young influencer lands a dog food sponsorship, she recruits her estranged mother to co-star - hoping to turn a work obligation into a chance to reconnect. As she road-trips with her boyfriend toward the visit, anxiety builds while personal and professional pressures blur, culminating in a surreal unravelling.
Interview with STAR Kenny Sale and Star Director MKL.
Raindance timely info for SHOWING Son June 23, 2026
Matthew Kyle Levine page
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Transcript
Introduction of 'Something Rather Than Nothing' Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing. Creator and host, Ken Valente. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer. So basically, the way that it works...
00:00:31
Speaker
is now that we have such a wide audience, companies and businesses will pay us to promote their products and their services on our platform.
00:00:49
Speaker
Take a picture of me right here.
00:00:53
Speaker
Rory, sit buddy. And since most of our videos are about Rory, the companies that reach out to us are usually
00:01:07
Speaker
And in the script they wanted to have wholesome element to it. So I'm just going need you to play with Rory and give him one of the treats, OK, Mom?
Welcoming Matthew Kyle Levine and His Achievements
00:01:31
Speaker
Hey, everybody, this is Something Rather Than Nothing podcast with ah Ken Volante and super pleased to have, hey, Matthew Kyle Levine, you are the the most frequent desk guest on Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. Here's the official award, which is just a verbal award at this point.
00:01:50
Speaker
ah Welcome back to the show. I had no idea. well thanks for having me. Really love your work. And we got um ah Kenny Sale, who ah ah is in the film On the Phone, which we're going to talk about. um Great name, Kenny. ken's I think Ken's are one of the the best names in the world. ah Kenny, welcome on to the show.
00:02:10
Speaker
Thank you so much. Yes, the names are top notch. All right, we got that that cleared out. But um you know part of the reason you know, ah Matt, like on ah on on a show before, we've had um just... I was looking through these kind of connections that we have and in in art and connected to the show with Liz Kiger, who you've done cinematography for, um with ah Liz's ah ah tremendous productions.
Discussion on 'On the Phone' Film and Raindance Festival Highlights
00:02:37
Speaker
ah Victoria Studo, of course, um with regards to... um her music and um being in films, um your films, Shea Glacine with ah music and also appearing in your film. So like, you know, been around this world, which is, which is really cool. You got a, you got a new film and, and speaking about it in particular now on the phone in a rain dance festival, what we got, which we got going on there, ah New York city.
00:03:10
Speaker
What is rain dance festival? Hello, Matt. Tell us what rain dance festival is and what's going on there in the, in the big city. Hey, yeah, again, thanks for having me on. So rain dance is actually in London.
00:03:21
Speaker
So our world premiere is going to be, ah you know, in the UK. So it's going to be an international premiere. I didn't know. Hold up, hold up, hold up, hold up here. Hold up here. All right.
00:03:34
Speaker
Here I am assuming it was it was it was New York City. Not everything rotates around New York City. And I should know that. I'm from Rhode Island, right? i should know not everything is rotates on the axis of New York, for fuck's sake. right, right. London. Holy shit. Go ahead. Sorry to interrupt.
00:03:48
Speaker
No, no, you're good. Yeah. So we applied to you know all sorts of festivals in the US s and and internationally. And you know the way it goes with festivals is you just ah apply and submit and submit and submit. And I think we submitted to like 40 different festivals and you know you get a lot of no's and you kind of think at a certain point like, all right, maybe this is just going to live on YouTube or something like that. Like you don't know what's going to happen.
00:04:08
Speaker
And ah then all of a sudden we got the email from Rain Dance, which was um really like a top tier, you know like top five choices of everything that we submitted to.
00:04:19
Speaker
ah So we didn't even think we'd get something this big. it's certainly the biggest film festival that I've ever been involved in. And ah we're excited about it. We only found out like month and a half ago. They let everyone know like beginning of last month and it's the 21st and the 23rd.
00:04:34
Speaker
On the 21st, it screens at 1215 and on the 23rd, it screens at 1245. And we're hoping to just have like a big turnout and really promote it and get everybody to come see you know I'm kind of outlining a feature film project that's a bit of ah you know a longer form version of this movie in a few ways. Not exactly the same characters or the same story, but kind of the same themes. I'm just hoping to build some momentum and maybe get some funding and some you know distributors interested in the project.
00:05:02
Speaker
um Yes. Bunch to talk about there. My brain was just my brain was just catching up. And it's looking at the Piccadilly. You're going to be in Piccadilly Circus, ah it looks like. ah The Piccadilly screen, um screen four on the 21st and the twenty third it's a really cool theater. I'm excited to go. I've only been to the UK once before, actually only a couple of weeks ago for a shoot, which is kind of exciting just to already have known that we were getting in and then to weirdly get asked to go do something out there. It was just like an interview shoot, but it was kind of nice to go like, you know, check out the theater and and see what the deal is. And it's a really nice, you know, we we couldn't have asked for a better premiere for the movie. So really excited for it.
00:05:47
Speaker
World premiere. ah Congratulations on that. That's fantastic. When I went to London, there's this travel guide. It's called Guide to Weird London. And that's the last trip I went through. I did the Weird London Guide. That's a weird ass city.
00:06:01
Speaker
That's a weird ass city. ah Fantastic city. i've been I've been there. I've been there a couple times. um Oh, yeah. so excited Yeah. So, so excited. I'll i'll tell you a little bit more about London. But um all right. So on on the phone, or folks. um So.
00:06:18
Speaker
I would just say, like as is as far as background, what we're talking about like these these themes that we all talk about. um and technology, ah the combination of art and commercialism, um yeah the personalities we see on the screen.
Exploration of Film Themes and Production Challenges
00:06:35
Speaker
and so um But all I'll say ah about on the phone for right now is that through ah Kenny's performance and Desi's performance, it escapes all the terrible territory of like, oh, fuck, like I know, phone's bad, like people messed up because of phones. Right, right.
00:06:53
Speaker
You know, like, and so in the area that it goes into and explores is so, so vibrant with like, for me, philosophical themes of identity, who you are, making art, and such.
00:07:09
Speaker
um I want to ask you, um ah Kenny, in in your experience coming to this project and, you ah Being the lead actor in it. um Like I said, very ah beautiful performance. ah Matt has to look for performances. I've talked to before because so much is said in in in in in in in the face and intonation and in in sound. um Kenny, what was this project like for you working on?
00:07:41
Speaker
on the phone and with Desi McGregor opposite you. um Well, first of all, Matthew and Desi were both incredible to work with. I was super excited about this project. And ah I was also very fortunate. It was I read a lot of auditions and I would say like 70, 80% of the time. It's not like a project that really excites me. And um this one particular, he gave me a huge monologue to read. And I was like, dear God, this is a massive monologue for the first audition. But I was really interested in kind of all the all the material that he sent me and all the details.
00:08:19
Speaker
And was excited to read it. And i think that that kind of helped me out a lot to help everyone out a lot.
00:08:31
Speaker
to kind of like feel for the film, I guess, if that makes any sense. And the funny thing about that monologue is that that didn't end up in the movie itself. Yeah, we didn't use it. Yeah. I was now we that i was guessing that in the background, but that was just me. we i It was actually, you know, just to touch on Kenny's performance, it was the hardest thing you know, character to cast ah just because we wanted something very specific. And there was a lot, like you said, not in the, in the dialogue, but more in the expression and the, like the vibe of the character. So when we did auditions, you know, we we only had a couple of lines here and there to string together. And it felt like it wasn't telling enough of if we could dive into the,
00:09:12
Speaker
like the soul and the personality of the character. So we figured if we did a monologue that really expressed maybe what was going on internally, we'd get a better idea of if this person's right for the role. And I remember kind of being at the end of my wit, like I'm gonna have to reach out to you know, a casting director or something like that to find the right person. Like we literally couldn't find anybody that fit. I don't know why it just, it just wasn't working.
00:09:33
Speaker
And then ah we found Kenny just on backstage and then it was like, oh yes he overhead Yeah, I wasn't even so that that time period I had been working on a project and I was I was like living on set for for almost two months straight. And I was hardly even looking at projects. And I just scrolled through backstage one day and I saw this and I submitted to it and they reached out and I was like, oh, this is great. I'll just try this out and see what happens.
00:09:58
Speaker
and yeah he wrote back and and he was like super excited and he wanted me to read another part and um i was like okay great you know he's interested and i love this project and so i did this i did this additional part and he's and i think he got back to me very fast and he's like oh man this was incredible i put this the the potential score that we have um for the film like to this and he's like yeah i loved it and and then we went from there and um stayed in communication until we until we obviously shot Oh, great, Kenny. um
00:10:30
Speaker
Speaking about the the score too, Victoria Stuto done the score. And when I talked to Victoria, we're talking um fall of 2025. seen enough of you had' seen enough of ah ah you work and I had heard the um the score for this. And it was a prominent ah score, almost an emergent character within the film where, yeah and so that, that piece was
00:11:01
Speaker
beautiful, successful, and felt a little bit risky too, it just as far as the the balance sound. And it's very different from what we've usually done, because we've done ah short films where there's no score at all, ah you know just to kind of like heighten the realism of it and almost make it feel eerie and kind of cold. And then we've also done, like I do score myself, and we've done a lot of like synthesizer score where it's more like tonal, not exactly musical.
00:11:25
Speaker
And ah me and Victoria, just you know we're producing this together, ah just because we live together and, you know, we kind of do everything together anyway. So if I was going to run anything by someone, it would be her. And she's kind of been getting more and more involved in the film industry. So I thought it'd be a great thing to work on something together.
00:11:42
Speaker
And I just realized, like, she, you know, she used to be a music teacher, so she can kind of play every a woodwind instrument. Also, like, She could do piano and guitar and like all sorts of stuff. So i was like, if we could just have her do all the tracks, we could potentially make it sound like we have an orchestra, even if we don't have the budget to get an orchestra.
00:12:00
Speaker
So she just did every track and made it sound like we had like a quartet of clarinet players, ah even though you know we didn't. it was kind of like the magic of sound editing.
00:12:11
Speaker
And then as it grew, we were doing more tonal stuff, kind of like what we usually do with the synthesizers. And it eventually got to the point where we realized we wanted like more leads and harmonies and stuff like that. And I kind of like let her just take the reins on it.
00:12:25
Speaker
And yeah, it became like a character of the film in a way. It's the only part of the film I feel like where it kind of tells you what to think from a third person perspective, because of the you know at the same time, we're like mostly in Desi's head, I think.
00:12:38
Speaker
So it was nice to have that element. And I think it also makes it stand out that and the cinematography from Sean Dahlberg. He, you know, we filmed everything on 16 millimeter and he had a few tricks up his sleeve to kind of overexpose the film to make it feel almost like um the way we were talking about it was like we wanted the film to feel like it was dug up like in a time capsule or something like that to make it really like me make it feel like it's old.
00:13:00
Speaker
And then I think the woodwinds kind of worked into that too to make it feel like it had a kind of a vintage like 70s aesthetic. So our whole goal with this thing from ah like an aesthetic, you know, and like vibe perspective was to really make it feel like it was an old science fiction movie that accurately predicted now to kind of heighten the absurdity of the whole thing.
00:13:22
Speaker
Hot dang. Hot dang. What is it about, um I'm going to have a question for you, Kenny. It's going to be one of the philosophical questions. So you got to, you know, yeah, I know. um um Matt, what about, um all right. So I watch your films and let's talk about this one in particular. And, you know, I think what's fun talking philosophy and trying to talk about ours is capture ah the words without giving anything away. But like,
00:13:46
Speaker
is the The woods that these characters in, the suburban environments, there's this loneliness that that that emanates from it. and um you know The big trees, I think, in upstate New York. and I'm out in Oregon, so I think ah trees and how you feel in the trees and that vibe. Speaking of the sound as a character, but just like the place, just like the place always ah when when you use that. How...
00:14:15
Speaker
how What are you trying to evoke there? like and Why does it feel like... you know, a bit lonely, modern, anxious as a nature of being like, yeah, well, you know, i probably, I have an interesting relationship with um upstate New York cause I live in upstate New York. But I lived in the city for about, you know, two to three years in Brooklyn and around COVID i was kind of getting more editing work than shooting work. So i was like, why, why not get, you know, 10 times the space for half the price and,
00:14:47
Speaker
So I kind of made the jump to do that. And then i did find that it's like, it felt like there's a whole world in the city that I'm like missing out on, even though I would go back to shoot. But then at the same time, I felt like there was like a freedom and like more of a back to basics kind of grounding feeling of being in nature. So I feel like as like a modern person living outside of a city or living in somewhere that's like more affordable, um but also, you know, that there's the pros of it being more beautiful. it just creates kind of an interesting dialogue, at least for me in my mind of like, you know, what what is the effect of living in a more urban area versus a more rural area and what is the contrast due to a person?
00:15:25
Speaker
So I thought that these characters ah would be an interesting thing to explore because even though it's not said directly, I think there's a general vibe that these characters are kind of like Brooklyn ah people or Brooklyn artists, you know, ah Brooklyn content creators and they, that's at least what we did in the backstory anyway, or what we settled on. And then they kind of travel up to visit her mother. And then I think there's a little bit of like a shock to like, wait a minute, now that we're leaving the frenzy of the city, who are we and what are our identities and and what are we doing here? And I think that
00:15:58
Speaker
context of being out of the city almost makes what they're doing feel more absurd to them. And I hopefully in the movie, that corporate kind of mentality of like, let's build a brand and all this kind of stuff seems a bit sillier in a more, you know, nature environment.
00:16:13
Speaker
and ah and it And a lot of things just kind of worked out to our advantage. I think, Kenny, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we originally going to shoot this in the warmer months? And then you you weren't quite free? We pushed it a little bit because I remember something about, you had spoken about the leaves and maybe how you wanted, you wanted kind of with the leaf changing.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah. and Getting into fall. So I think it was written originally. There was even scenes that involved, ah you know, the, you know, like the summer, like there was like, like a specific scene like ah that that we threw away where, you know, there was a, you you could just really tell the aesthetic of like them, you know, being sweating and and kind of overworking themselves. And, it ah It had that kind of like dog day afternoon energy to it. ah But then because of scheduling, we moved it. And then I realized that like that was going to help the movie even more because there now was this feeling of decay. It was like a little past, you know, when the leaves change and everything looks perfectly pretty, everything looks a bit more bare.
00:17:11
Speaker
And I think that only pushes the story a little bit further along that there's this feeling of um emptiness to what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. don't what would look like with...
00:17:24
Speaker
I don't know, with with it being more lush and vibrant. It wouldn't have fit. yeah There's supposed to be an element that like there's like a dystopian quality to it. And I think that really, it worked. So everything a lot of things came together really luckily with this one.
00:17:42
Speaker
and and That's our right um kenny ah talking about art, talking about art, I want to just talk to what with a question I asked about is um
Artistic Journeys and the Value of Authenticity
00:17:52
Speaker
identity. And For you, know as a creator, you know ah was there was there a moment for you that ah you saw yourself as an artist, you know as as an actor? and What was that moment?
00:18:08
Speaker
Do you mean in this film or in life in general? In general. In general in life. Where you're shifting in identity, inhabit it. Yeah.
00:18:21
Speaker
I don't know if it was like a particular instance that I could, that I could like properly define for it. I did, you know, I did a couple of church plays when I was like a little kid, but that was kind of like the extent of my entertainment industry, I suppose I would say.
00:18:36
Speaker
i think there's been like an essence of, of me like performing and and kind of like my upbringing a bit. I like, you know, being excited to, to be like outgoing and maybe,
00:18:49
Speaker
charismatic and talking too much and getting yelled at by, by teachers. And, um, I think I was kind of like more or less thrust into the entertainment industry. And, and then I just, i really enjoyed it. Uh, the acting specifically, i started off doing modeling and then, um,
00:19:09
Speaker
It's not like really my thing, but it kind of gave me an avenue or an outlet to to get into acting. And I guess this specific moment that I that i do remember is when I did have a... I had an audition, and it was one of my first ones ever. They gave me a cold read, and I had no idea what a cold read even was. This is how how new I was to the acting world.
00:19:30
Speaker
And they just gave me an entire two pages of papers and I like lost my shit. I didn't know what to do with this. And I was like, how am I supposed to memorize this in five minutes? And I went in there and um the lead actor had already been cast and he's going through, you know, his his lines kind of paraphrasing and I'm just like losing my mind.
00:19:51
Speaker
And he kind of feeds me a line and I'm like, oh yeah, yeah. Do you want some bacon, dad? And he's like, yeah, I'd love it. And then that was kind of the end of the audition. And everyone was very nice. this The producers and the director were all in the room. andre like thank you so much. like Great work. Great job. And I knew had absolutely no way i was getting that part.
00:20:09
Speaker
And it was so terrifying. And I was so anxious and nervous. But then once I left the audition, i was like, wow, I know that was terrible. But I absolutely love that. And I want to keep doing it. And that was kind of, I guess, that's the we got there eventually. But that's the I guess maybe the defining moment for me.
00:20:26
Speaker
I love that. i think, well, not your experience, not having to necessarily go through that. I think every actor has that at least once. Yeah, like um like ah you're you're you're just um you're just thrust into it. But um what what one other piece I wanted to ask you, ah Kenny, on and on the show I ask – There's kind of like, you know, motivation like and and intention and like in creating art. Right. And one of the things I've been talking to Matthew ah for a while, um you know, ah really ah enjoy the films and the work ah that that Matthew has done. But there's also
00:21:08
Speaker
like I'm interacting with, I want to say just like creators as a word, but artists and like creating something um for you, Kenny, like if you're looking like to create, ah to, to, to create a, ah ah you know, like a work of art, like and I would say refer to on, on the phone, but like, you know, the film or the painting, um what is that for you? What is, what is art for you? Like, what is that, that you're trying to do?
00:21:40
Speaker
Yeah, that was a deep question. That's a tough one have ah What is what is art for me? um
00:21:50
Speaker
in ah in ah In a broad broad sense, I guess, um you know so we don't have to spend three hours on this podcast, I suppose it would be um trying to create or in some sort of way fabricate in I think a collaborative way, something that speaks to somebody and furthers a conversation.
00:22:15
Speaker
um Obviously not everyone's going to like the things that you create or you make, and but that's not necessarily what it's about. I think if you can make things that people want to talk about and it makes them think and want to understand or you know have um an opinion that's that's a little more than surface level, I think that's part of what creating art should be or and or is.
00:22:40
Speaker
And there's a lot of very controversial pieces of art, of film, paintings, sculpture, music that a lot of people don't like, but it still furthers the conversation in the discussion, whether it's like political aspect or philosophical or ethical one.
00:22:55
Speaker
I think that's kind of what I would consider art and I think it's also a responsibility of of any given artist to to go out and create in attempts to stay away from the commercial side and the capitalistic side, which is a whole different conversation. But I think that's part of the obligation of an artist as to kind of further discussions.
00:23:19
Speaker
Thanks, Kenny. Oh, sorry, Kenny. was just going to say there's a lot to be said about the communal element as well. like I think, ah you know, me and Victoria were talking about this and like we're really excited about the festival and we're really excited that people are going to see it. But we feel like nothing ah really compares to the doing of it and the meeting with the similar minded people, which is really important to me. I really would rather work with someone with less experience who is more interested in the project than it speaks to them than someone who is maybe extremely well regarded or like really busy and but they're just phoning it in, you know.
00:23:52
Speaker
ah I think there's ah something special when like-minded people come together and kind of further the dialogue. It almost makes the piece itself better. Like I think the script that I had originally before I cast Desi and Kenny was one thing. And then it kind of with conversations but with the two of them bloomed into something else. And then even on set,
00:24:12
Speaker
ah Like the night before we sat at a table and just like went over the script one more time. And there was still moments where i was like, you know, it actually crossed that out or like you do feel weird saying that and then just don't say it that way. Say it another way.
00:24:24
Speaker
And then we kind of, I think that it's something more organic by leaving that room for interpretation open. And i think we all kind of felt like we had the space to kind of do our own roles, which I like to do. I like to leave everybody kind of their space to do their thing, because I think it just becomes more authentic and we get more perspectives. And I think what we settled on was something that was fairly different than the original idea.
00:24:47
Speaker
But it i it speaks more true ah to the themes than what I was originally expecting. And I think there was more empathy for the characters where at first It was honestly, ah it felt to me anyway with my intention of writing it, it was a little bit funnier at first. It had more of like a look at these two absurdist kind of influencers that are just kind of silly doing this thing that doesn't mean anything to kind of getting closer to, you know, what, why are they doing this? Why do they think it's important? And what is maybe bothering them that they're running from to focus so much on this and to take it so seriously?
00:25:21
Speaker
And i think by the end, you could see that all the characters, even though it's such a short film, have kind of, they have a bit of an arc where they do realize something, where there's a little bit of a mirror reflected at themselves.
00:25:32
Speaker
And I think that came through because we all, in that moment when making it, had a mirror reflected to ourselves. Because for me, at least, it's a very personal project. You know, like I make social media content for people, for, you know, clients. I'll do video production and, you know, sound work and stuff like that. And I think ah even I wanted to get down to like, why am I so driven to do what I do and, you know, to make you films, but also why are these people that I'm working with so driven to express themselves? So it all became kind of a reflection on, on art and, and yeah, it was just, it was an incredible experience.
00:26:08
Speaker
Yeah. Um, no, thanks. Thanks for, well I mean, there's always like, um, I think, um, in ah community terms and like in in creation and such. And a lot of folks I talk to you know, ah I've worked a little bit in film, but it is enough for me to really fully understand the difficulty of converging the type of things that you talk about and having those come together in that way, um which is why things can take much longer and, you know, Right.
00:26:46
Speaker
you could do and nobody's in away and you might get lonely in that territory not know where you're going so it's it's it's it's it's um it's ah it's a mix in a balance um Festival, Rain Dance, ah London, ah screening screening ah June 21st, June 23rd.
00:27:11
Speaker
what what is I mean, I know what a film festival is, but like for somebody you know going, um what types of films? Are these international? they all short films, longer films? What's going on with the the atmosphere overall?
00:27:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's a mixture of features and shorts and it goes over the course of like 10 days or something like that. And think the idea that they're pushing is that for like a pretty low price, you could just get a pass for the entire thing. So you can go every day and, you know, films play literally from, I think like 10 in the morning to midnight or something like that. And there's, you know, little breaks in between and, you know, there's free little like networking lunches and, you know, you know, just opportunity. There's panels where, you know, different crew members or actors will kind of come on from the films themselves to talk.
00:27:56
Speaker
ah there There's like journalists there that are like looking to do like little things like this, like podcast interviews there and everything like that. So it's more than just going to see films. It's kind of like going to be a part of like a whole film community, which is really exciting. And For us, ah for short films, they do like a shorts block so that it still occupies the amount of time that a feature would be. So it's like two hours worth of short films that play in a designated spot. And ours starts at 12.15 12.45. And then, yeah, then afterward there's a Q&A. And, you know, then you can obviously talk to the filmmaker afterward or you you could talk to... the audience and have a bit of a dialogue there. So it's really cool. i mean, I've done um smaller festivals than this, and it's always so exciting to be able to, you know, talk about your work with like minded people.
00:28:44
Speaker
But in this specific situation, I think there's more industry people there and there's more opportunity to kind of like leverage yourself and maybe build future collaborations along the road with people that, you know, now have discovered you because they liked your movie. So it's a, it's a great kind of platform to just build a ah career, but also to maybe have more creative experiences like the one that we had.
00:29:08
Speaker
um Matt, are you talking and talking about on, on, on the phone in thematically, some of the, themes you bumped into this and talking about expanding that
Critique of Influencer Culture and New Ventures
00:29:21
Speaker
out. Did you have any comments around that as far developing some of the ideas we talked about on Out Further in the future?
00:29:30
Speaker
ah Yeah. well So you're talking about the developments of the themes for this film? Yeah. Yeah. Well, it it was an interesting discovery where this idea came from. I won't mention the person's name, but I work for a social media influencer from time to time.
00:29:45
Speaker
And they specifically, it's very dark. They wanted to, their their mother was sick and she was in the hospital. And he called me kind of feverish. And I think there was a ah element where, you know, I could tell that he was stressed about that dark family crisis, but also what he said was so polar opposite to what you would expect, which was you should come with your camera to the hospital and you should film me talking with my mom and then, you know, maybe we'll get some really deep emotional moments where I'm crying or or this and that. And I was so kind of shocked by the idea that someone would want to milk their own tragedy. ah to gain popularity online. And and I realized that there's like a bit of a not to knock what people do. Like, you know, i I know a lot of influencers that are great people, but still just the idea of that kind of ah it made me realize that it's an addiction more so or or just as much as like we are addicted to phones and being on the phone. I think when you ah are an influencer and you're creating content and you don't you don't know where your career is going to go and and you just feel like I have to put everything into this and I have to be as raw and authentic as possible and almost build an online brand and identity that can be marketable. I think it ends up kind of for some people anyway, kind of leaking into other parts of your life. And next thing you know, you want your entire life to be like a reality TV show, which I think kind of hinges on maybe a deeper problem that we might have in the society of like lacking community because of technology. So it's kind of like this loop
00:31:15
Speaker
that I thought was very interesting. And I think I've seen movies and shows about influencers, but none that actually kind of touch on this idea of, um you know, when is it too much, you know, a way you know yeah and it where's that line where you're kind of crossing the line in terms of like revealing your own life and it and it kind of causing like a bit of a spiritual disruption for you.
00:31:40
Speaker
So that's that. And and then go ahead. No, i just like on that, I think of like in philosophy for me, it's always like that, that, that those aspects of of identity that are there that are so fascinating and like how to inhabit identities. And there's, there's, there's like, there's a, a, a sequence in, in, in, on the phone.
00:32:04
Speaker
Uh, McKinney in character says, you know, it's, um, You're supposed to be this. You're you're happy. like you this this is This is what you are. And if you're not portraying that, there's nothing.
00:32:18
Speaker
they're right and There's nothing there. so Which is funny because it's so ironic there because he's saying don't be who you are right now. You have to be the version of yourself that, yeah, I love that one line that that Kenny does where you you can almost, I think that was improvised, but he kind of ah is trying to give a little bit of a monologue to her, like of like ah a pep talk where he's like, you should be you know happy and confident. And the people like that kind of, you know, Lily, that Lily's the character's name. People love seeing that Lily that's happy and confident and plays with her dog and blah, blah, blah.
00:32:49
Speaker
And then he tries to kind of say more to it and then just realizes like I need to hit this home. So he repeats it again. and he's just like, people want to see the Lily that's happy and confident, like almost kind of hammering it. Like, what way why don't you understand that? Like, you have to cut out what you're doing right now and just be what we've established, which is almost his character's admission that, you know, we're not being authentic anymore, which then defeats the purpose.
00:33:18
Speaker
um it was well done well yeah well well well what'd you say well nothing nothing that's just kind of a little bit uh borderline socio yeah no totally totally a sociopath yeah i remember being on set and like with each scene kind of realizing like man it's going to be hard to have any empathy for your character each scene is a little like oh you know he's terrible he's terrible but i think for this movie specifically we talked about that actually Yeah, yeah, yeah. that That was kind of fun to just be like, you know, what let's just lean into it. Like, you know, in in a lot of ways, your character is like the antagonist.
00:33:53
Speaker
um But I think that that was fun with this one, because we knew that we were doing something absurdist. Like, I don't want to give away um where it goes. But it gets to a point where this is clearly not it's so elevated that it's not something that would hopefully ever happen, what they do for for content purposes.
00:34:10
Speaker
And I think that only highlights it even more if you go to the extreme. So for all the characters, we were able to go ah more extreme than maybe ah what you'd expect just to really emphasize ah the issue.
00:34:25
Speaker
i was I was thinking so much about um like for me, I thought and I mentioned this before I met in the films, like um thinking about, you know, sequential photographs and thinking of about there's some photograph, you know, paintings, stills like ah in this movie. But there's almost like cinematography so good. Yeah, there's almost like huge. human glitches uh at the end too and folks make sure you watch on the phone we're talking a whole bunch about it in world premiere in in in and about a week but there's these stills and then the movement of the humans at the end is still human but it's fucking human glitchy and it's like yeah wow yeah so yeah yeah yeah we really yeah we like the idea that the analogness that or whatever you want to call that you get from the film kind of adds a scratchy organic feel to it which I think only contrasts more to them trying to be polished and perfect so like there's constantly those two things kind of battling each other so yeah me Sean and I the cinematographer worked really hard on kind of trying to establish something like ah a visual look that was both really beautiful like and very well framed like there's a specific shot where the two characters are like in the middle of a tunnel of trees that's also in a larger frame so it has this very painterly kind of look to it uh
00:35:41
Speaker
and And we also wanted to emphasize not showing the phone as well to make it seem even more otherworldly and alien. So so we don't really see ah the screen of a phone at any point in the movie. So there was a few ideas that we had to to emphasize these themes and to make it seem even more strange than it might seem if you saw it in person.
00:36:02
Speaker
Now, well done, well executed. Always look forward to each of your films and actually the genuinely deeply excited. um over there in London and worldwide for the worldwide premiere of on, uh, on the phone, uh, to be seen, Matthew, Kyle Levine, ah where do folks go, uh, for the, for the, their info, the Vimeo, where do folks look around for your films and the work, your body of work that you do.
00:36:33
Speaker
I recently worked like three, three days in a row on a website, which was extremely difficult for me to do. it took a lot of time, but I'm glad that I have it now. So it's Matthew Kyle Levine.com.
00:36:44
Speaker
Uh, there's a page for on the phone, but obviously it's just the trailer because we can't show the film because it's, you know, it's going to have its premiere. Uh, but you can actually see all the films going back to 2019 with our film, miss freelance that, ah that was in the Williamsburg, uh, in, International Film Festival. So now all these movies are kind of back online and all in one spot and you could see it with the poster and the trailer and you could read the reviews and can even our our episodes are in those pages as well. So you can kind of do a deep dive on everything, see some behind the scenes photos and
00:37:14
Speaker
Whatever. So if you want to kind of brush up on any of the other films, which, you know, I hope people would, you could see it all there. And then, you know, if you're not in London, that's okay, because I hope we're going to have, you know, more festival screenings in the US and ah some in New York, you know, hopefully a couple in New York.
00:37:33
Speaker
and ken And Kenny, where do folks find, I mean, again, straight up, straight up in this film, ah striking, striking work um in its different type of work. And I'm not a film expert or anything. I obsess about film, but it's a, it's a different thing you have to do in this film.
00:37:48
Speaker
ah Well done. Where do, where, where do folks go like the, to find you, you know, the work that you do, um you know, where you're around that type of thing.
00:37:59
Speaker
Yeah, I just have an Instagram page, really. i i don't want some I haven't created anything. I try to stay offline as much as I can. But pretty much all my work, I just use Instagram for that. So it's just Instagram.com at Kenny Sale.
00:38:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's the majority of it, other than some casting websites. but that's Staying offline as much as possible. It's so out of character. It's so You really had to completely do the polar opposite, yeah.
00:38:29
Speaker
I had to really detach myself from from what I've seen. I went through the apocalypse now experience of this filming and I will not social be.
00:38:41
Speaker
Yeah, some people have told that the most recent person that watched it um was someone who you know was potentially interested in in getting funding together for us, which was highly appreciated. And they were like, I loved it, but I also felt sick.
00:38:52
Speaker
after watching it, I want to throw my phone in the garbage. So we're kind of, you know, I don't know if we're promoting, you know, not using your phone or or whatever, but Those kind of visceral reactions are great. So you know it's almost a horror movie in that way. you know so I hope you feel kind of bad about it afterward.
00:39:08
Speaker
d You know, you pay you pay your money. Your pay is is not for perfect satisfaction and not in harmony. I remember, you know, i ah I forget if I told you before, found footage horror movies, when they're well executed, tripped the hell out of me. Like I get scared as shit. And I remember when I saw...
00:39:28
Speaker
It was like Blair Witch Project, and I'd seen it you know when I was out in the theater. I walked out in the parking lot. I was scared shitless. I'm mom happy to say it out loud. yeah i was like – my first thought was like, are other people needing help yeah walking out of the fucking theater? And I've seen a billion movies, but every once in a while, and whatever is that unsettling feeling, I've always kind of gone – for it as well. So I saw that movie when I was way too young. I think I like rented it from the library when I was 10 just because i heard that it was like a super popular movie or whatever. And ah ah my sister convinced me as like a prank that like this is real. This is a real thing that happened.
00:40:07
Speaker
So I watched it just feeling like I was watching people just get tortured. And, you know, ultimately that crazy ending. You know, I after that, I was like, I was like one of the movies for sure that made me want to make movies because like what an impact this can have. And Honestly, when I found out that it was fake, it was even more inspiring. Or, you know, not fake, it was fiction.
00:40:25
Speaker
It was even more inspiring to be like, wow, you could really create a scenario that can move someone so deeply. And it's funny you mentioned Blair Witch because Blair Witch premiered at Rain Dance, actually. What?
00:40:36
Speaker
Funny coincidence.
00:40:40
Speaker
Look that. Full circle. I love that. i love that. I've had... There's there's a um there's a great horror content ah maker. Her name's Blair Bathory and her name's Blair. And she's obsessed with the Blair Witch Project. And she's done some great short films in in that area all around ah Blair Witch Project, which I find, you know, i like um on the bit, like you said, Mac, like,
00:41:07
Speaker
making you want to do right like that everybody like when you counter art that is brilliant and it's brilliance doesn't like upset you being like I'm never able to try to make it a be like I know I could do something like that there's that right right oh that was so fun too because yeah like you know I had like my parents VHS camera and i was like oh that's all that you you only need that you know that's such a kind of relieving feeling that you don't need all this millions of dollars of equipment to make something I think that pushed a lot of independent filmmakers into that direction Yeah, i tried to I tried similar Renaissance projects with my dad's Super 8 camera from 1973. But my gosh, years, even of good,
00:41:44
Speaker
probably union american labor fifty by that thing is It's not producing proper film anymore. God bless it. it It got me with my toy trains at age three, but that's fine. Me trying me trying to do the cutting shots in Portland with the super eight. So super eight cameras are tough to come by. um So great. So great to chat with you both about this film. ah I'm enthusiastic about it.
00:42:10
Speaker
um ah Thematically, but, beautifully how it looks, even on this the, set the, the, I say even on the sound, cause I talked to Victoria Stuto who scored this. I said, when the sound in this score came into the room, I was listening. out I'd be like, wait a second.
00:42:27
Speaker
You're a much bigger character. Like in my head, yeah like the sound coming. I'm like, who are you? Like, I'm supposed to just be watching uncomfortable stuff. But, um, and the reason why I felt was risky is such an intimate detail with your work and having that come in and fill that in another great step. Folks who see, uh, on the, on the phone and Ray dance world premiere, you'll see it. But, uh, everybody, as you can tell enthusiasm for this film, Matthew, Kyle, Levine, Kenny, uh, sale. It's great to have you on, um,
00:42:59
Speaker
Well done. And um hopefully some more folks with on the phone as we ah go along. Great success with this. um I'm really excited for where all this is going for both of you.
00:43:10
Speaker
I appreciate you, Cam. This was so fun. It went so fast. i thought we just started. I know. It's a great thing, too. One thing, though, to...
00:43:22
Speaker
this next thing is getting big out there in New York. I'm out in, I'm out in the mid Willamette Valley here. And I'm noticing this shit is big. The Knicks, Knicks fever.
00:43:35
Speaker
It's crazy. Incredible right now. I just did a whole music video that was right in the middle of the chaos. The artist wanted just watched it. just watched it. Oh, really? Oh, no way. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. We were really in the middle of the chaos. And like before everyone was super rowdy and we were just like in the middle of a giant crowd filming everything.
00:43:52
Speaker
And he's super good at, ah you know, getting everybody interested. And, ah ah but then at the end when they won, it was like truly a frat party in the streets. Like, you know, people were riding on the back of trucks and, you know, honking and like hanging out on top of the roof and, you know, like putting banners over the buildings everything. really, it's really fun. It's exciting.
00:44:12
Speaker
So we'll see what happens. Yeah. Yeah, we're catching during the finals here to the New York Knickerbockers having a historic, historic ah run. And, you know, hey, I'm from the West Coast. Anytime anybody's around and you have like, what the heck's going on with this? So what's up with the new Dunkin Donuts commercial? So I got to get my info, you know.
00:44:33
Speaker
some other way. So long guess I'll just drag you along for it. um Great work again. Always great chatting with you. Everybody check out Matthew Kyle Levine, the work of Kenny Sale on the phone and London, England and others. You're in for a great treat. Thanks, guys.
00:44:52
Speaker
Thanks so much, Ken.
00:45:04
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.