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SWOON, Caledonia Curry
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Caledonia Curry, known as Swoon, is a contemporary artist and filmmaker recognized around the world for her pioneering vision of public artwork. Through intimate portraits, immersive installations, and multi-year community based projects, she has spent over 20 years exploring the depths of human complexity, and asking how art can fundamentally re-envision the communities we live in towards a more just and equitable world.
She is best known as one of the first women Street Artists to gain international recognition in a male-dominated field, pushing its conceptual limits and paving the way for a generation of women Street Artists. As a classically trained printmaker, she has innovated new approaches to create large-scale relief prints and intricate papercut works. The deep consideration of form is inseparable from Curry’s vision of the transformative role of public art in communities. Her critical engagement with issues of social and environmental justice have positioned her at the forefront of the emergent discourse around socially-engaged art practices. Her commitment to expanding the possibilities of art to repair trauma and foster personal and collective healing continues to drive her substantial contributions to contemporary art through her work with portraiture, sculpture, installation and most recently, stop-motion animation.
This is Something Rather Than Nothing
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:02
Speaker
You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing. Creator and host, Ken Valente. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer.
Guest Introduction: Caledonia Kari Swoon
00:00:17
Speaker
Hey everybody, this is Ken Vellante with your Art Philosophy Podcast, Something Rather Than Nothing. And a few months ago, I asked Caledonia Kari Swoon, an artist I followed for some time to come onto the show, and I am just so pleased to have you here. Welcome um to Something Rather Than Nothing, Swoon.
00:00:39
Speaker
how's it going? ah Wonderful, wonderful. I'm recording here in the sun.
Swoon's Artistic Journey Begins
00:00:45
Speaker
Portland, Oregon. and um you know, Simon, talking to you, but I really want to like hear about your thinking about art. And one of my initial questions um is about, was there a moment that you became an artist, ah that that you debt your identity where you're like, I'm arting now. yeah this This is me. This is me. Yeah.
00:01:13
Speaker
There was. i um I'm one of those people that thinks that like the the the truth is that you know art is really about not stopping being an artist. you know That sort of philosophy really um rings true for me. But there also wasn't was a moment for me, and it was when I was 10 years old and my mom like saw an ad in the local newspaper for painting classes And she took me to it.
00:01:40
Speaker
And it turned out to be like a retiree painting classes, like in the style of Bob Ross, like leading you through an oil painting. And I was the only kid and we got there and my mom was like, oops.
00:01:52
Speaker
And they were like, no, it's totally fine. Just just leave her with us. Like, we'll we'll we'll teach her too. And they did. And it was an incredible experience being led through, you know, that painting and being with all these adults. And I mean, being like 10 years old and painting for five hours straight was like pretty epic.
00:02:09
Speaker
And then when left, I had this painting and it looked like a painting and I got so much like people were like, whoa, you did that. Of course, you know, lot of it had do with being in that class. But the fact that I was getting so much affirmation at a time when I really deeply was craving that, it just it just totally solidified it for me. And I was like, this is me. This is what I'm doing forevermore. Yeah. Yeah, but there's not to assume, but like the component of like some older folks there and sharing that space and time and, you know, being accepted in there. Yeah, mean, having them give you attention and energy and confidence, you know, and I would say like, oh, I can't do it. I'm only 10. And they would say, nope, you don't hear me saying I can't do it. I'm already 80. yeah.
00:02:56
Speaker
If I can do it, you can do it. You know, they just had like this kind of excellent way of, um yeah. And they just made me feel welcomed and and and special, but they also didn't take shit from me. You know, they were just like, no, like show up, do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank you for that so much. I mean, part of the part of like when I talk about art that excites me is that it's alive in the
Art as Healing and Empowerment
00:03:20
Speaker
world. And like in looking at your art, um there's components of the way that like I view things of like the energy around, um, around like working together and collectivism. And there's a particular piece in, in your work. And I don't mean to be trite about this, like, cause you know, like the idea of what art does for us and healing process for me in, in doing the podcast and painting I've discovered recently, just
00:03:50
Speaker
a whole open area ah for for healing and expression that i didn't ah that I didn't realize that was there. yeah. um Big time. And so there's that power there. um How do you cultivate the the the space ah the space for that to be part of the art experience for there to be the potential for healing cure in in in the art itself?
00:04:21
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think that the first truth of art is that, you know, let's just take visual art, but I think sort of any art form, what you're doing is you're taking the absolute fucking chaos of your mind and you're going, all of it goes here.
00:04:41
Speaker
All of it. Like this. Nope. Nope. Come back. yeah that that Like it just has this way of getting like all your ducks in a row and then they whoop and then you, and then you're focused in on something.
00:04:52
Speaker
And I don't believe that there is a way to do that and not have it be a calming experience. And so I think that there's just this kind of natural component of empowerment, of resilience building. um like i just think it's just good for you to do that. And it and it doesn't matter. you you know You could be doing that in archery or horseback riding. you know it's it's really It could be really any activity, but the fact is you're bringing yourself to it in earnestness and full focus. And there's something about that That's just like almost always good for us. And so I think like that's where you're starting.
00:05:35
Speaker
So then what are you next what's the next thing that you build from there? Are you now saying like, okay, I'm taking this thing that calms me and centers me and now I'm going to also...
00:05:48
Speaker
you know, bring in some like things that are, that are disturbing me, maybe like memories or subjects that are really challenging me. How about if I bring that into this space or how about if i you know, do this kind of fun active of focus, but like together with a bunch of friends, you know, I think that, you know, there's just some elemental things that happen within the art making process. And one of the things that I discovered when I was first starting to work with groups is that, you know,
00:06:18
Speaker
You could be scrubbing a floor together. It honestly doesn't matter. Humans love to do a thing together. We love it. It's fun. like It's true. And so having a common goal is there's something energizing about it. It's like, okay, Here's the thing.
00:06:34
Speaker
And we all get together around it. We decide that this is important and we do it together. And the fact is we couldn't do it by ourselves. Like if it's something really big, you know, let's say we, you know, we want to anything that we want to build something or even just back to the floor cleaning. Well, it's a really big floor. You know, we want to clean up this kitchen and throw a dinner. You know, if I had to do that by myself, I would be crying. But if we do it together, you know, we can get this amazing thing accomplished together. Um, and, and it, and it's not just about what we can accomplish. It's, it's like this synchronicity that happens like between us while we're doing it. It just feels good. It feel we're together. We know what we're doing together. Like there's just something, um, there's just something like elementally good about that. So, you know, again, once you take that truth that like, we love to do something together and then we're going, well, what are we doing together? You know, you, the possibilities are kind of endless.
00:07:27
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, ah no, just thank you Thank you so much. i think about... one of the One of the big questions, you know, like, thinking current, right? So, like, I've entered 2026. I think about 2026 is a different year. a bunch of shit going on. We talk about it in different ways. um When we think about, like, public space, um ah folks, intimidation, fear, violence, or, like, ah you know, basically the presence of of of of folks.
00:07:59
Speaker
I want to know, is there something is there something different about... um public art or what you're trying to do now or is it it is it like expected to art the same way? like Is there fund some fundamental shift ah for activity in the public space ah space that you're responding to or is you know just the terrain You mean with the rise of fascism in our country?
Public Art vs. Fascism
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. um I mean, the thing is, I'm actually not working on big public projects right now. So I am a little – I'm in a more internal space, which means that I personally – am not really responding in that same kind of collective way than I may have been 20 years ago. yeah um And so, and so I do wonder, you know, I believe that like there is a relationship no matter what you're doing to the kind of, you know, psychological and emotional processing of, of the moment. And so I think there's the, you know, the importance of
00:09:02
Speaker
Public art, though, for the people that are creating it and for everyone else is the sense that we maintain access to our public spaces and that the sense that that the people can participate in our public spaces. You know, I think it's more true now than ever, but ever since I ever started making art, there was this sort of increasing attack on the commons. There was this kind increasing sense that...
00:09:31
Speaker
you know, the, the sort of forces of centralization of power are always working to separate and to isolate and to sort of gain domination over people's hearts and minds. And one of the ways, one of the like real common things that turns up over and over again is trying to make public gathering more illegal and trying to make public art, um,
00:09:56
Speaker
more difficult to do because that's so, you know, in and, and, and the reason like I did street art and graffiti for many, many years. And one of the favorite, um, Espo, who was like a really influential when I was, um, first making work, he, he said, graffiti always has to stay illegal. And, and I, the reason I love that, and I totally do legal public art projects at this point in my life, but the, the importance of there always being,
00:10:22
Speaker
sort of a realm and like an active layer of illegal street interventions is that it is never going to be okay for all communication and culture to have to go through approved channels. People have to be able to spontaneously communicate and communicate with each other, particularly as we see these kind of systems of control tightening around us.
00:10:50
Speaker
I, um, in my host role, I remind myself in my head, my host role, cause I was just listening to you right there. And, and, in and, and really, um, just thinking about the comments and the idea of public space and, you know, ah the idea of illegality, right. Then it has to be this, there has to be a space that's challenged or like, you know, that, um, I wanted to ask you a different question. I've become fascinated, um,
00:11:19
Speaker
you know, by art around the world, like in doing the podcast, sometimes I really love to drop into artists and being like, if they're down in Albuquerque, it's like, can you tell me what's going down and like Albuquerque music, like drop right into it. Um, when you've gone to these, um,
00:11:36
Speaker
ah different different places and in locations. Is there is there one or in particular that has just kind of swayed and kind of moved you in a way you you didn't expect, you being new to that ah geographical area?
00:11:53
Speaker
New York. New York. I didn't expect to live here. York. I moved here to go to school and I thought I would leave ah as soon as I was done and kind of travel and and graduate. But what I found is that the...
00:12:07
Speaker
the intensity of the energy of New York never, it never lets me go. It's like my, you know, after all these years, I still love it. Although I do find everywhere I do go, I'm always like, oh my God, this place is so cool. You know, like I, ah this year I was in, um,
00:12:25
Speaker
I was in Wyoming. I was in Laramie. Okay. And I was also in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And both of those places, I was like, yo, y'all are so cool here. You know, like yeah the artists that are making it happen in, you know, no matter where you are, it's like the fact that you're going to build up your art community and make that happen in whatever place you are. Like it almost, I just feel like that is like,
00:12:54
Speaker
It's so cool that you're building it up in a place that might be considered an unlikely place like Laramie, Wyoming. you know if youre like It's like the kind of spirit that rises to that challenge is like a very fucking cool person. do you know what I mean? and like The sense of like get it done and do it together. you know I was just down in Baton Rouge and they have you know this sort of carnival culture there. And they, they did, they do this thing called the surreal salon and they were bringing everybody together to just do this amazing ball that's been going for almost 20 years, you know? And so I feel like whenever I do travel, I'm always like struck by just how the like every single place, like all it takes is people coming together and continuing to come together like year after year and just be like, this is us, we're doing this. And like something really beautiful emerges.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah, and the way that you approach it and and interact, say, with a group of folks, is there something you do to eliminate the barrier for them that can exist for so many humans of being like,
00:14:01
Speaker
Like that art is accessible and that we can do it now and that we
Breaking Barriers in Art
00:14:04
Speaker
can do it together. it remains a hang-up, both an identity. is Is there something you do to help help help folks be comfortable being the artist with you and with the project ah when it's when it's done in that way?
00:14:18
Speaker
ah I mean, I guess it depends on what the project is, you know, um because there's you know some projects I work on where it really is like, this is my very specific vision and I need help executing that vision. um And so I think, you know, the it's the way that people participate with me in that is is much more in like really rallying around the specific vision. And then there are other projects where the goal is actually more about kind of finding what it is that's healing or that's galvanizing about art.
00:14:55
Speaker
You know, and that's when you get into sort of coming up with a project and just kind of getting started. And I, and I feel like for me, the thing that I always try to do is i talk about, you know, like, so for example, I've done projects working with folks that are like in treatment for addiction or, or for um even incarcerated, incarcerated. And the the first thing that I do is just like introduce myself and introduce my background and my family and just be like, look,
00:15:26
Speaker
like people have been through some shit. Do you know what I mean? Like just because I'm here and you're there, like it's like, but for the grace of God, go I, like we've all seen and done things in our lives. And like, and like, I really counted as my good fortune that like having grown up in a family that struggled, with addiction and was incarcerated and all of these things that I found art at such a young age. And it sort of put me in a position where I could then be the person that's like showing up to these spaces. But I don't, I ignore, I just know that like, I'm not making a big distinction here.
00:16:00
Speaker
I'm just like, this is kind of the way it shook out. And I think like that sense of, of just kind of being like, look, we're all people here feels like such an important kind of first step, because I think that's like what the stigma is around so many people. So many, you know, just things in life is this sort of like attempt to kind of separate us and be like, oh, you're like this and you're like this.
00:16:20
Speaker
And again, the rise of fascism, that's their whole fucking playbook. You're bad and you're good. You're like this and you're like that. And so if you can just start the conversation by being like, what makes us, what do we have in common?
00:16:33
Speaker
And, and then the other thing that I like to talk about is just like, you know, I just have a memory of like a woman who was like, I can't draw for shit. And I was like, but you can go like that. Right. And she was like, I mean, so much fun. She was like, oh, I can't always do that. She was like, this is how I do art. And I was like, then that's your art. Like, there's nobody out here telling you that it can't be like. you doing these beautiful circles with your hand and bringing in all these wild colors and just going over and over again. Like, yes. Like your only problem here is that somebody gave you the idea that that's not art.
00:17:04
Speaker
That is art. Do it, you know? And, and for her, it was like really engaging her body and really, you know, just beautiful in all these ways. And if you think about And so often it's just like the critic in our mind or it's just like the ah the society saying, you're not this, you're not that. And so kind of just breaking that down and being like, look, we decide what art is, like all of us together. So like that means you too.
00:17:30
Speaker
i um There was something about when you were expressing, like there's the physicality of helping somebody along, you know, with the circles and such. And I think some of my biggest discoveries have been like what the language is, not like and just like the art of language, but like of dance and movement. Like I think so much, um at least in my head, i was I was caught up with like analytical answers, even the questions I ask on this show, like what is the answer to it? And then when I, like, I want to say something, like, you know, we get frustrated, we get angry, we get overworked and stuff.
00:18:04
Speaker
And then when I would dance, like, I just started dancing again. Like, you know, yeah my partner, Jenny, and I, we would go out and dance. And I'm like, i'm like go this is me freaking yelling out randomly and, like, you know, like, get getting it out. And I was like, it's out there because my brain was so...
00:18:24
Speaker
How are you doing today, Ken? I'm feeling better because the sun was out. you know not Not to minimize like how I'm feeling or something, but it was like, how do I say when I'm feeling when my arms have to spaz out and my legs and I want to yell too loud? and it's just something you were saying about the movement. or like Okay, you don't know how to sketch or illustrate. What about this arm doing those big old circles? like let's yeah Let's get it on, right?
00:18:50
Speaker
Yes. And that that is so, so much a part of a healing too. And I think that's what we're realizing. Like, I love the analytical mind, God bless it. And I love, I love talk therapy, like God bless it. But that is, we are learning that is not complete, that you have to move your body. You have to, you know, you have to sort of, and, and I think for a lot of us, you know, depending on just whatever trauma throws us out of our body, like it disconnects us. It makes it sort of unsafe to inhabit the body. And so, and, and there's so much, even just about kind of like the way our culture is set up that just sort of teaches us to sort of separate those things. And so I feel like we're, we're kind of winning back this relationship to our own bodies at this moment. um And some of that is through dancing and through like realizing that dancing really is some like collective power and healing. I just like last week, it's been, it's been like 20, 30 degrees in New York and my friend wanted to go dancing and I was like, oh, this is mental health. And yeah, I was on the dance floor screaming just out, you know, that you just, and then, and then I made it through the week and I was like, this is not a frivolous practice. This is a real mental health practice.
00:20:00
Speaker
oh my Oh my goodness. And it was talking. It was just realized, like, clicking in my head that I'm talking, that I'm talking and expressing, and everybody else is around it. But I also think, like, even around the environment, I think, like, picking out the particular environment,
00:20:15
Speaker
like around artists and we go to a goth club where people like when it comes to like all these kind of ideas and categories kind of like let's erase some of those and let people be let humans be humans and move around not like it as an ideal but as in an an environment to inhabit so that's what i've been dropping into thanks to to be able to talk you were you're talking um I don't want to ask the question, what is art? Because a lot of what you were talking about is interactivity. Um,
00:20:47
Speaker
uh, what, you know, was really, was really getting after that. And, you know, I asked about the, the role of art and I, and I really loved what, you know, what you say about, about space, about space and about space now, um, and in resistance, uh, against, against fascism.
00:21:07
Speaker
Um, this is the, like, the, the question is the curious question, deeply curious, impersonal, professional, but what, um,
00:21:19
Speaker
What art project or projects recently have kind of taken over your time and and your mind for you ah to to develop in the direction as you swoon ah yeah creating?
Current Project: Fairy Tale & Long-Form Narratives
00:21:32
Speaker
Well, right now I'm working on a fairy tale called Queen Hattie and the Hearthstone. And it's like quite a classical fairy tale that's about...
00:21:44
Speaker
like It's a kind of a Jungian fairy tale about like integration in the psyche, but it's very much about confronting repressed trauma, ending cycles of perpetuating the trauma, and you know kind of coming into your higher power. And it's it's funny because when I tell people the story, you know I think of it as this deeply internal story.
00:22:05
Speaker
But there's a point, there's a character in the story called the Rat King. And I find as I talk about it, everyone's like, oh my God, the Rat King. Like that there is a way in which even these kind of deeply personal stories can really overlay onto our lives, you know, in the kind of like social and political struggles that we are having. But um but yeah, where I'm at is is really in like deep fantasy building. um working on film and and working on narratives that have like multiple kind of points of entry.
00:22:40
Speaker
I, I had this thing happen, like it's been quite a few years now where I feel like the, the train of my creative process, like jumped the track while I wasn't looking. And now when, when I need to express something or when something happens in my life, it comes out through long form narrative Which is super weird for me because that is not how I used to express myself before. But even, you know, I lost one of my best friends this year and it was such a harrowing experience. yeah And I wrote a sci-fi about it
00:23:15
Speaker
I was like, who are you? What is this? But that was how I grieved. And I really deeply, deeply like put the grief into that story. And, um, and so that's just what I'm finding. Like that's sort of who I am right now. And that's how, how I'm expressing myself and needing to figure out how that comes out in the world. Cause that is not how people know me.
00:23:39
Speaker
The, um, you know, deal, dealing with grief. I, I, um, Had a recent recent amazing experience where it was going to an art exhibition. it was in Salem, Oregon. It was done by Amanda Freeman, who's a fantastic photographer.
00:23:54
Speaker
um And ah there was an artist talk and a reception, beautiful native food and all this. And I went to it. And I knew the artist and I was excited about the exhibit and the activism around this project and awareness. It was very important to me.
00:24:14
Speaker
Three hours later, I didn't know that they had carried me through a public ceremony about folks who were lost and missing and grief. And now I'm two hours in. but I'm ah umm a neighbor and a friend of these people's because I'm singing with them. and then Now, I had never had the opportunity to have space for more full public grief and the drums getting it out and the singing, getting it out. And I'm like, I just, I'm just, this is a Tuesday.
00:24:50
Speaker
Like, and and you know, I'm 53. Like I've just been gifted this one thing out of nowhere. And now I know that I can deal with some recent losses in pain,
00:25:05
Speaker
And not figure that shit out on my own. Yes. And not yeah do it not even do it in ways like, Ken, are you okay now after two months? No, I'm not okay. I'm still missing that person. like Yeah. and and And so I had that. And so, and you know, looking to talk to you and and really thinking about space and dealing with the shit, right? that You know, there's art and then there's the like the shit that like get through and put out. It was so it was so powerful. So my brain's been like,
00:25:33
Speaker
really vibing on that energy of hadda how to get it out ah how to get it out and and what art does. And so like talking to right now has like a special kind of like connection and meeting because my brain's exploded with that space and saying, Ken, don't, at the analytical thing, right? Don't try to figure out exactly how you are Yeah. yell it out and it might sound like exactly how you doing at the move in i'm like okay let's alert like i'm gonna take that in like i'm gonna use this going forth and um
00:26:06
Speaker
i love that she made a a ritual that because it's like that's what culture is is we need to figure out how do we grieve and and that we and she took the incentive to do that that's amazing i love Well, even even the notions of time. Right. Because we're caught up. Right. And like I'm like, what's the use of me checking? Like and i do I had a meeting afterwards. I didn't like I'm like, no, all that stuff. I'm going to show up there later on. I'm looking at some strange clock right now and I'm in the process that I don't know.
00:26:35
Speaker
but Yeah. Like when it's done. It becomes different in those spaces. I mean, and that's the thing, right? Is like you asked about what art is and I have so many different answers for that, but you just sort of made me think of,
00:26:50
Speaker
timelessness as one of the answers, right? That like when we are in the sort of linearity of like the super rational time that kind of makes like, you know, makes our cities function and makes the math add up. And that's fucking great. And like, God bless that we have that.
00:27:07
Speaker
But it is not all that there is, right? We are sort of aware that like whether by perception or, you know, however you account this, there are other realms that exist within our realms.
00:27:19
Speaker
And that and then our our mind and our consciousness are capable of sort of shifting between these different states. And I think that um you know what you described about getting into that grief and and getting into that singing and the drumming and then all of a sudden your time is different. like that is such ah that's It's because like when you're in the space of like art, creativity, dance, storytelling... It's like you're in a realm where the inter it's why you get those, you'll set an inspiration. You connect this to that and that to this. And it's all happening in an instant because we are, sort of leaving the linear realm for a moment and what seemed impossible before becomes possible in that realm. And that's like the other thing that gets me so excited about why art is so important, even in these moments of dire urgency. Yeah. That that we need to maintain the ability to imagine alternatives and that like nothing gives us like the freedom and the agency and the ability to connect the dots in unusual ways, like giving ourselves time to be in that creative space. And so even...
00:28:30
Speaker
when we're like up against this system that's so destructive and terrifying, like the ability to sort of drop into the timeless place, like remains not only one of our medicines, but one of our like spaces to build new potential from.
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah. Wow. Maybe you could just talk at me for an hour and talk to the audience. Yeah. Well, maybe it ends up, maybe everybody, this this ah ends up being the teaser. Like, I mean, this intro to swoon. And like, if if if we could surmise such a thing. um let Hey, tell, tell, tell, seriously, ah tell the tell the listeners where to ah find your work and like ah like, you know, where you want them to interact or think and look at something or, you know, all that stuff.
00:29:25
Speaker
Okay, well, actually, first, let me draw you a card. I have my Sibylent Sisters Oracle deck that I'm in the middle of prototyping. Would you like me to pull you a card? i absolutely You're blowing me away. Of course. Yes. Thank you. Okay. You never know. You always got to ask. Some people don't like cards, do I? So I take that seriously. This is like 100% copacetic. Yes. All right.
00:29:47
Speaker
Let's see what we got. Uh-oh. We got the girls in school. I'm going to draw you another card because I want to i want more information on this one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the girls in school is all about when we feel...
00:30:01
Speaker
That there's something that we're missing. That there's a... Okay. Well, okay. So I have the second one pulled. hasn't turned over yet. So the girls in school is all about... So in the fairy tale, the character, she doesn't have the mothering that she needs. And she sees these other kids that do. And she feels like, oh, you prissy little brats. You don't understand. She's really kind of angry at them, actually.
00:30:30
Speaker
And the sort of the, the lesson of this card is that there actually often is usually a softness under that where, the The deeper truth is, oh, I actually kind of need some mothering or whatever it is that I need that that it it seems like other people have. And that rather than kind of enemyizing them, like maybe it's time for me to ask myself like, oh, do I need that? And then figure out how I can give it to myself because now we're adults, right? Yeah, yeah. um And then the next card we got, ooh, rise to a challenge, the plunger.
00:31:04
Speaker
yeah. So here's how I'm gonna interpret this. yeah So there's a need to rise to a challenge and that in order to have the resources to rise to the challenge, you might want to sort of figure out what it is that you say, like, you know, when you feel that sense of anger of like, these people have what I don't, and then and then say to yourself, what is it that I need and how can I give that to myself? And that's going to be the magic that gives you the power to rise to the challenge.
00:31:41
Speaker
I could not thank you more. ah This is the type of ah beautiful energy and in in and and talking. And I do view it, um I don't know, um this year as the world is the way it is, but I've i've looked to make make different choices and go about things a different way and it's just seeing the importance of like talking and and talking to you and again um you know not the full deference but no it is truly an honor given all the work that you've done and not only that like just chatting now and like kind of like uh you know our brains get like charged by art so thanks for the
00:32:23
Speaker
Thanks for the brain charge and listeners, you're welcome for the brain her brain charge. And um you asked about like where, so I guess just my website is swoonstudio and then, you know, Instagram and, um and, ah and that's sort of mainly where I'm sharing these days, but keep an eye out for, um for the Sibylent Sisters deck and for Queen Hattie and the Hearthstone when that starts to emerge. Yeah. I'm super excited about that. Hey, the name but the the titular the name of the podcast is why is Something Rather Than Nothing podcast.
00:32:57
Speaker
ah Towards the end of our interview here, you can tell me, hey, Ken, you know whatever on
Why is there Something Rather Than Nothing?
00:33:03
Speaker
that. But I'll ask you, why okay why why is there Something Rather Than Nothing?
00:33:11
Speaker
Oh, that is such a tough question because that sort of feels like it gets at the kind of core of, you know, the idea that from the void there came a longing and that longing created all that there is. And, um, and why do we, you know, why do we, I, I often feel like,
00:33:30
Speaker
one of our kind of roles as like living creatures is to side with life and to side with creation. And why do, why do we side with that? I don't know. But for some reason we do that, like, as we're rowing up the stream, like we row in that direction, we know, we say,
00:33:47
Speaker
We understand that there is death and there is destruction and there is sort of the this force that like creates renewal. But somehow amidst all that, we sort of row in the direction of growth and of life. and And I don't know why that is. I don't know why that that that that sort of something making is who we are. but um But I do know that it is.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Thank you ah so much. um Again, ah everybody, yeah you know, look, looks search up the art. Swinna's done photos, the interactivity around it. And just again, um for your thinking and what you do. um ah Thank you so much. And, you know, they we probably have a 90 minute episode in us as well, but we can, you know, play it.
00:34:43
Speaker
The teaser. We could we took talk it out right now. Thank you. Thanks again. Pleasure to meet you. Great to meet you. I'm sure we'll talk again soon. Awesome. Sounds good.
00:35:04
Speaker
This is something rather than nothing.