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Shape Up Your Landscape: Spring Pruning 101
75 Plays6 days ago
In this episode of Hort Culture, we dig into the do's and don'ts of spring pruning for landscape trees and shrubs in central Kentucky. We talk about the benefits of dormant pruning while plants are still asleep, and how timing your cuts can impact flowering later on. Learn why early bloomers like forsythia and lilac should be pruned after they flower, while late bloomers and non-flowering shrubs can be pruned earlier in the season. Whether you're shaping up evergreens or giving your hydrangeas a haircut, we’ve got the tips to help you prune with confidence this spring!
Simple pruning tips for your fruit trees during the dormant season
Questions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@l.uky.edu
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Transcript
00:00:00
Brett
Thank you.
Introduction to Walking Snacks
00:00:15
Alexis
Okay, I feel like it's getting to the time of year where I like to have a lot of grab-and-go snacks, but I don't want them to be like super bad for me snacks. mean, I want them to be, but I don't need them to be super bad for me snacks, right?
00:00:27
Plant People
Well, first of all, you said it's getting to be that time of the year. Is it ever not that time of year for grab-and-go snacks?
00:00:31
Brett
Yeah.
00:00:31
Alexis
Well, I just mean these ones are eaten outside.
00:00:32
Plant People
I want to, want to, like, like oh, you're talking about walking snacks.
00:00:35
Alexis
like i mean, the I emphasize the go.
00:00:35
Brett
Oh, gotcha.
00:00:38
Plant People
You're talking about walking snacks.
00:00:39
Alexis
Yes, walking snacks, yes.
00:00:40
Plant People
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
00:00:40
Alexis
I'm talking on the go more.
00:00:41
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:00:42
Plant People
Port-a-snacks, sure.
00:00:43
Alexis
Yeah, yeah. So walking snacks. i like I like that because car snacks, I feel it could be a little bit different than walking snacks. Okay, so it's ah it's a time here where we're outside a lot and you just sometimes need to come in for a snack, but you need to go right back outside.
00:00:54
Plant People
Hmm?
00:00:57
Alexis
So I need a good walking snack. And I'm curious on what your all's walking snacks are. And I feel like this is something important for all of our listeners who are also outdoorsy people, and they may need a new inspiration for walking snacks.
00:01:09
Alexis
Okay.
00:01:10
Brett
Creme brulee.
00:01:12
Plant People
Yes.
00:01:12
Alexis
Listen, don't have time for your sass today, okay?
00:01:12
Jessica
o
00:01:12
Plant People
Very portable.
00:01:13
Jessica
Yes. that's That's my go-to, Brett.
00:01:16
Plant People
Very portable.
00:01:17
Jessica
all Every time.
00:01:18
Plant People
Creme brulee. Flame it up. Just flame it up.
00:01:20
Brett
With a cloth napkin.
00:01:20
Jessica
do yeah Do you like to toast it before you go?
00:01:20
Alexis
i I'll tell you my current obsession, if that's helpful for you, to inspire you towards your walking snack.
00:01:26
Jessica
Okay.
00:01:28
Alexis
um I cut off a piece of a block of Parmesan cheese. Just like a little cube-y Parmesan cheese.
00:01:32
Plant People
Okay. European of you.
00:01:36
Alexis
Because it's like, you know, it doesn't fall apart. It's real solid. And I grab usually like a clementine or an apple. It's like a little charcuterie board in my hand. And a couple crackers if we have crackers on hand and I can fit it all.
00:01:49
Alexis
Usually in one hand and then I have a hand free to open doors and stuff like that. So that's my current walking snack like go to.
00:01:56
Plant People
Hmm.
00:01:57
Brett
I am not a walking snacker.
00:01:59
Alexis
Well, listen, good for you and being a person who takes time Oh, as you should.
00:02:03
Brett
No, I mean, it's not a judgment thing. I think it's it's an inflexibility issue of mine.
Pregnancy and Snacking
00:02:08
Jessica
As a pregnant lady, i have snacks.
00:02:08
Alexis
oh
00:02:08
Plant People
What if...
00:02:11
Plant People
Oh, here we go.
00:02:12
Jessica
I have snacks everywhere currently.
00:02:12
Plant People
Pro. Yeah.
00:02:14
Alexis
ah and she should
00:02:16
Jessica
I'm trying to think what would be my walking snack. Well, you know, you take like little cutie oranges and you just eat them as you go.
00:02:21
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:22
Jessica
And then you can just toss the pill wherever you don't have to worry about your trash that way.
00:02:24
Alexis
yeah it's awesome it's awesome
00:02:25
Jessica
don't know.
00:02:27
Brett
No, actually, I don't know.
00:02:29
Alexis
the other one I like that may be kind of fringe I don't know maybe not is you know the like ah art um the the fake crab as we call it right it's the
00:02:29
Jessica
You don't know.
Exploring Snack Durability
00:02:40
Plant People
Imitation, wannabe crab, wannabe crab meat.
00:02:41
Alexis
imitation crab yeah the imitation crab legs right they're like they're good protein there's not a ton of like sugar or fat and everything in them and they're like
00:02:41
Jessica
um yeah
00:02:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:02:48
Plant People
Oh, there's a lot of sugar in there. have you ever looked at the carbs in imitation crab?
00:02:50
Alexis
Yeah, but not in comparison to like a granola bar is what I'm talking about.
00:02:51
Plant People
It's amazing.
00:02:52
Jessica
Don't just just don't don't comment.
00:02:54
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah, no.
00:02:56
Alexis
not So that's my other walking snack because I need like something to keep me satiated.
00:02:56
Plant People
Just let her have this. Let her have this.
00:03:00
Plant People
I don't know about seafood as a walking snacks.
00:03:01
Brett
That is... I have...
00:03:03
Brett
um
00:03:03
Plant People
that That surprises me.
00:03:05
Plant People
And this is coming from someone that likes gas station food. That surprises me as a walking port-a-snack.
00:03:10
Alexis
Yeah, yeah, why not?
00:03:11
Plant People
Yeah. I mean, yeah i love that.
00:03:13
Alexis
With your little hunk of cheese?
00:03:13
Jessica
Well, you get a lot of like beef sticks, like the little meat sticks.
00:03:13
Plant People
I love your style. I do. I like your style.
00:03:15
Alexis
I mean...
00:03:16
Plant People
I was thinking, you know, yeah. on muslim
00:03:19
Alexis
yeah
00:03:20
Plant People
Yeah.
00:03:20
Jessica
not as I mean, it could be a Slim Jim.
00:03:21
Alexis
It's a seafood meat steak.
00:03:23
Plant People
my My original walking snack, which, you know, if I'm like walking in the woods for an extended period of time, like it can't be like a chocolate candy bar that I love.
00:03:23
Jessica
Yeah.
00:03:31
Plant People
You know, back before you had all the protein or complete meal bars and all that fanciness, it was always a payday because they are so stable, even under heat and time.
00:03:34
Alexis
o
00:03:40
Alexis
Okay.
00:03:40
Jessica
oh
00:03:42
Alexis
Okay.
00:03:42
Jessica
They don't like melts.
00:03:42
Plant People
And we we all carried paydays because they stuck together under abuse in a backpack or a rail pack.
00:03:43
Alexis
Yeah.
00:03:49
Plant People
And they were just as good being crushed under heat and cold.
00:03:49
Brett
Wow.
00:03:53
Plant People
They were so consistent. It was a payday candy bar. Now, if I was working, i mean, that that' that take it to the bank.
00:03:56
Alexis
That's real talk right there.
00:04:00
Plant People
They're cheaper than like the really expensive...
00:04:01
Alexis
Literally take your payday to the bank.
00:04:03
Plant People
Yes. To the bank. Take that payday to the bank.
00:04:04
Brett
Wow.
00:04:05
Plant People
Very nice.
00:04:05
Brett
Thank you.
00:04:06
Jessica
Yeah.
00:04:06
Plant People
But if I was on the farm, my walking snack always was one thing because I could sit in the dashboard of the truck.
00:04:11
Alexis
Pork rinds.
00:04:12
Plant People
Close. the Vienna sausages.
00:04:14
Alexis
Peas feet.
00:04:15
Jessica
Spanish sausages.
00:04:15
Brett
Oh, man.
00:04:15
Alexis
Oh, Vienna sausages.
00:04:16
Jessica
Oh, man.
00:04:16
Plant People
Or Viennese for those aficionados.
00:04:17
Alexis
Vianney. Vianney.
00:04:18
Plant People
the root For the real people, Viennese.
00:04:20
Brett
By Annie's.
00:04:21
Plant People
Vienna sausages. if I was, I don't know, I grew up with those. And my accompaniment to that would have been just a pack, a sleeve of crackers. A sleeve of crackers will do, an yeah, it's perfect ratio.
00:04:30
Alexis
Salting crackers.
00:04:30
Jessica
Right.
00:04:32
Jessica
Or like, what do you do you guys call them nabs?
00:04:33
Alexis
ah Salt because you're sweating.
00:04:35
Jessica
Do you call them nabs?
00:04:35
Plant People
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:04:37
Jessica
Right. Because some people don't know like what you're talking about.
00:04:39
Plant People
Like Cheez-It type stuff.
00:04:41
Jessica
Yeah, like were there the like peanut butter crackers or like...
00:04:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:44
Alexis
this Pack of peanut butter crackers.
00:04:45
Brett
yeah.
00:04:46
Jessica
Yeah, those.
00:04:46
Alexis
Yeah, that's our that's our fish and scent.
00:04:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:04:47
Jessica
But yeah, that's a fishing snack.
00:04:48
Plant People
Cheddar.
00:04:50
Alexis
but
00:04:50
Jessica
um Ray, you got me thinking though. Now I'm thinking like diaper bag and the stuff you carry in. ah Certain crackers do not do well. Nutri-grain bars do not do well in a bag.
00:04:58
Plant People
Yep. They smash up.
00:05:00
Brett
oh yeah
00:05:00
Alexis
Nature.
00:05:01
Jessica
ah They smash.
00:05:02
Alexis
There's a particular brand of granola bar that just falls apart.
00:05:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:05:02
Jessica
oh
00:05:03
Plant People
The crubs everywhere bars, they do not work well.
00:05:06
Jessica
For this part.
00:05:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:05:07
Jessica
um You know... You gotta have something that holds up, right?
Humor and Pruning Analogies
00:05:11
Jessica
For your walking snack.
00:05:11
Plant People
You do. And then that's a prerequisite. That's the main thing for me is I don't like to eat stuff mushy that's not supposed to be so. Crème brûlée aside, Brett, whatever. But yeah, Payday Candy Bars, it's an OG. It's the real OG. Yeah.
00:05:24
Brett
So before we jump into what we're going to talk about, I just need to circle back to Alexis eating imitation crab meat.
00:05:28
Jessica
It has nothing to do with what we're...
00:05:32
Brett
Is that something that you, did you see that somewhere or did you just, you just,
00:05:33
Plant People
I'm glad you're circling back.
00:05:34
Jessica
Are you walking with like Like...
00:05:37
Alexis
I grew up doing it.
00:05:37
Jessica
you
00:05:38
Alexis
My mom bought it. I grew up eating that.
00:05:41
Brett
I like just, just as like, like in like how some people eat beef jerky.
00:05:42
Plant People
In a portable sense.
00:05:46
Jessica
in It's in stick form, right?
00:05:46
Alexis
Yeah.
00:05:48
Jessica
Because they they they because they sell it for like sushi.
00:05:48
Alexis
yeah there's there's like a flake Yeah, there's like a flake form too that's like still like big like chunks.
00:05:51
Jessica
Uh-huh.
00:05:51
Brett
huh.
00:05:54
Plant People
Maybe that's what I'm thinking of.
00:05:55
Brett
And so this is ah another type of fish that is made to look like it's crab meat.
00:05:55
Plant People
if like
00:05:59
Alexis
Right.
00:05:59
Jessica
Right.
00:06:00
Alexis
Right.
00:06:00
Brett
I have literally never heard of someone just just
00:06:00
Alexis
And it's cooked, obviously.
Pruning Techniques and Timing
00:06:05
Brett
raw, just raw dogging that.
00:06:08
Plant People
I mean, I love this stuff. Don't get me wrong, but we put it in a different kind of arena.
00:06:10
Jessica
I know. It's...
00:06:11
Alexis
It's good at protein and stuff.
00:06:13
Brett
I'm not criticizing.
00:06:13
Plant People
is. It's very good.
00:06:14
Brett
I, i
00:06:14
Alexis
I mean, it kind of sounds like you're criticizing.
00:06:14
Plant People
I love it.
00:06:16
Brett
I love it because it's very rare that you just that you hear something that you've just never heard before.
00:06:23
Plant People
It's incongruent with your perceptions of reality.
00:06:24
Brett
Like a new.
00:06:25
Alexis
My mom bought it when and growing up because she had, wheat we, you know, gri a farm she needed walking snacks.
00:06:29
Brett
Sure.
00:06:31
Alexis
And so she like wanted high protein stuff.
00:06:32
Plant People
Suddenly.
00:06:33
Alexis
And that was,
00:06:34
Brett
That makes me curious to our audience. Drop in a comment, email us, let us know if that's something else that you do, because I mean, I had plenty of weird things and strange things.
00:06:38
Alexis
yes.
00:06:38
Jessica
Yeah.
00:06:39
Plant People
Well, Brett, you thought you were fringe. You're not fringe, Brett.
00:06:42
Brett
And what's that?
00:06:43
Plant People
No, I say you, you're not fringe.
00:06:43
Alexis
yeah
00:06:45
Plant People
I thought you were going to be the fringe in the conversation. You are not even towards the edge.
00:06:49
Brett
Oh no, Alexis blew me off the map.
00:06:49
Alexis
He was like, I eat siren.
00:06:51
Plant People
Yes, you did get blown off of the chart.
00:06:54
Brett
Just eating eating loose imitation crab meat on the go.
00:06:54
Plant People
The X, Y axis has been redefined.
00:06:57
Alexis
that's
00:06:58
Plant People
Yes. Yeah. I feel much better about my gas station sushi now.
00:07:01
Alexis
I didn't even realize that it was like something in, you know, some sort of sushis and like that kind of things until I was much older.
00:07:01
Brett
um Unbelievably good.
00:07:03
Plant People
I mean,
00:07:08
Jessica
yeah oh you just thought it came like in a stick form and you just yeah i would have loved i would have loved to be next to you and like you just be like i got some
00:07:09
Alexis
Like I didn't know that that it was in other things.
00:07:10
Brett
Yeah.
00:07:12
Alexis
Like that's the way it came.
00:07:14
Brett
That's so, that is so awesome.
00:07:16
Alexis
or or the flakes. Yeah. Or the like, quote unquote, like little nuggets.
00:07:18
Plant People
I imagine just Alexis pulling imitation crab meat out of her pocket now in the summer, just eating it.
00:07:24
Plant People
I don't know if you would.
00:07:25
Alexis
ah it's It's in, I keep it in the cheese drawer so I can grab everything with one fill swoop.
00:07:26
Plant People
I don't know if you would.
00:07:30
Jessica
yeah makes sense
00:07:30
Brett
wow yeah you ah like to have all your snacks as if they were extruded from some you know i really i i love that so so much yeah
00:07:31
Plant People
No.
00:07:33
Alexis
All right.
00:07:36
Plant People
Yes. Like peanut butter products.
00:07:42
Plant People
Building blocks of health. I like the word extruded there, Brett. Nicely played.
00:07:47
Alexis
Well, ah drop us a comment with your walking snack of choice and or if you've ever just bought a pack of imitation crab to to eat on the go. So, you know, it's ironic that you say extruded in that shape because the my other favorite thing that's my car snack is um at the grocery store, the like cans that pop, you know, easy pop cans of artichoke hearts.
00:07:56
Brett
wow awesome
00:07:56
Plant People
<unk>
00:08:06
Plant People
I'm scared.
00:08:09
Plant People
Like being a sausages. Oh,
00:08:11
Jessica
Oh.
00:08:12
Alexis
eat eat those in the, or not artichoke rice.
00:08:13
Brett
Now, does that go back to childhood or is that a more recent?
00:08:14
Alexis
I'm sorry, heart of palm, heart of palm, specifically heart of palm. They're the long, tall.
00:08:19
Jessica
That is so just different.
00:08:20
Alexis
Yeah. mean My, my mom and I used to do it like, like the, so dad and I would eat Vienna sausages in in the car.
00:08:21
Jessica
Oh.
00:08:26
Alexis
Like we'd get like one and share it in, you know, after we did grocery shopping as a child, just one, we'd just, the rest we'd dump out.
00:08:29
Plant People
Like one Vienna sausage or a can of Vienna sausages?
00:08:33
Brett
One can was good for six trips to the grocery.
00:08:34
Alexis
Yeah.
00:08:36
Plant People
Yes. Yes.
00:08:38
Alexis
And mom and would occasionally share the heart of palm one.
00:08:39
Plant People
Oh, man.
00:08:43
Alexis
So also in that round long shape.
00:08:46
Brett
Oh my goodness. i
00:08:47
Plant People
Alexis is just trying to bring it back to horticulture from Vienna sausages.
00:08:50
Alexis
Come on people.
00:08:50
Brett
i have known Alexis for a long time and this has genuinely shocked me.
00:08:54
Plant People
New info. This is breaking info, people.
00:08:56
Brett
This is awesome.
00:08:56
Plant People
You're hearing this as we're hearing it.
00:08:57
Brett
I love it. I absolutely love it.
00:08:59
Alexis
Jessica's like, this is pretty standard.
00:09:01
Plant People
And the pregnant lady is super impressed. I can tell by the look on your face, Jessica, for those watching.
00:09:03
Jessica
yeah I am am need this and I'm like do I need to eat a Vienna sausage right now oh they would probably love it they would probably love that
00:09:04
Alexis
She's like, do I need to go buy some heart of palm?
00:09:05
Plant People
yeah
00:09:06
Brett
You need...
00:09:07
Alexis
the answer is yes.
00:09:10
Alexis
shit
00:09:10
Plant People
You probably do.
00:09:11
Brett
You the boys started on some imitation crab meat so they can they can help to spread this tradition.
00:09:11
Plant People
It's never about time.
00:09:15
Alexis
It's their version of Vienna sausage. It's...
00:09:19
Brett
Yeah.
00:09:21
Alexis
Well, um what we're here today for...
00:09:22
Brett
I'm so shook I can't even possibly think of a segue right now.
00:09:25
Plant People
No recovery, no recovery.
00:09:25
Jessica
can't even think of like what we're supposed to be talking about
00:09:28
Alexis
We are we're talking about, if you've looked at the show though title of the show, ah we are talking about pruning today because we know it's the time of year where a lot of those questions come up.
00:09:41
Alexis
When do I do something? How do I do it? Why do I even need to bother pruning? Do you even need to ah bother pruning? And all that jazz. And especially after periods of, you know, cold weather, you know, we start and things that start to bud out, we start to see possible damage and other kinds of situations.
00:09:59
Alexis
So we thought pruning would be something valuable for you all.
00:10:02
Jessica
ah Very timely topic, right?
00:10:05
Alexis
Timely
00:10:05
Plant People
Are we, are we still talking, I guess it's semi when this show airs, it'll not exactly dormant pruning here in central Kentucky and Kentucky, depending on which zone you're in, it it still may be dormant pruning.
00:10:12
Alexis
Mm-mm.
00:10:16
Plant People
But for us, I guess things are starting to grow, but it's still not a bad time for a lot of things. Is it to go ahead and prune that?
00:10:22
Jessica
Great.
00:10:23
Plant People
I mean, we're in a sort of a transition stage now.
00:10:25
Alexis
Yeah.
00:10:26
Brett
You're hearing this probably April, mid-April-ish.
00:10:28
Plant People
Yeah. Things are starting to really leaf out.
00:10:29
Alexis
Yeah.
00:10:32
Jessica
Yeah.
00:10:32
Brett
How do you, originally quick, how how would you deform define dormant versus not dormant?
00:10:32
Alexis
Yeah.
00:10:37
Jessica
I have deformed a lot of plants by pruning improperly before.
00:10:38
Brett
How would you deform?
00:10:39
Plant People
Yes. We've been pruning of fruit trees over the years, but when buds aren't broken, yeah.
00:10:40
Brett
foreign them
00:10:40
Alexis
Same.
00:10:44
Brett
I'm still recovering from imitation crab meat and artichoke hearts.
00:10:45
Jessica
From the crab.
00:10:46
Alexis
The deformity.
00:10:47
Plant People
Yeah.
00:10:47
Jessica
yeah
00:10:48
Plant People
it's good it's it's it's ah' It's a hard pull back from that.
00:10:49
Brett
And...
00:10:51
Alexis
Heart of Pom.
00:10:51
Plant People
mean It was the abyss, the edge of the abyss.
00:10:51
Alexis
Heart of Pom.
00:10:52
Brett
to How would you define or or if you if I go out and look at a plant, how do I tell if it's dormant or not?
00:10:54
Plant People
ah But dormant pruning. ah Generally, I mean, ah just from a practical field standpoint is when things haven't leafed out, buds are tight cluster. Now, if you're talking about dormant fruit tree pruning, it's little different because the buds go through all these stages, right? and ah But for the most part, when no leaves and buds are still tight cluster, that to me is dormant pruning.
00:11:13
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:11:15
Plant People
And that'll come into play later on in our discussion today when we talk about things like, you know, if we're pruning for pruning for structure versus flowering, it becomes ah a bigger discussion in some cases.
00:11:26
Plant People
So yeah, dormant pruning.
00:11:26
Brett
Yeah. If you're in the, if you're in the kind of general interest in these types of things, there is, I think it's easier to sort of say, just sort of starts leafing out or it's before it leafed out. But in the actual world of managing this stuff, there's all these different stages of where the buds are, even leaf, even leaf buds, you can have a swelling, you can have a slight opening and different stages along that path.
00:11:41
Plant People
Yeah, it's it's gradients. Yeah, leaf buds are the same.
00:11:43
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:11:44
Plant People
you know
00:11:49
Plant People
You know, and a lot of times we talk about pruning in, you know, in two different ways.
00:11:49
Brett
And
00:11:53
Plant People
There's lots of ways to talk about pruning depending on the plant. But we talk about, you know, the reasons, first of all, why we're pruning. ah But in the case of trees, I mean, you may talk about structural changes, even though ah they've started to leaf out, you don't have full leaf out and you need to make some structural changes to ah an oak tree that's by your house, for instance.
00:12:13
Plant People
It's still a great time to go ahead and prune like oaks and maples, even though they're starting to leaf out and don't have full leaf load.
00:12:18
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:12:20
Plant People
Because your biggest concern in that situation would be the weight of the limb and being able to see the structure of the tree. That's why I like to dormant prune. If I have to do any kind of, I try not to prune those things, but if you have to and make pruning cuts, I mean, that's just some reasons why it's still a good time to do that. Even though the leaf out is occurring is you can still see into the structure of the tree. And that's a good thing. It's better when there's no leaves on there.
00:12:45
Plant People
because you can get an overall better sense of the tree and what you need to do. But the weight is still not on the limbs, and that's a very good thing, because when we're talking about bigger plants, that weight becomes a huge issue. So that's considerations when we're thinking about things like trees.
00:13:01
Jessica
I think also just to add to that, it's always it's always a good time to prune.
00:13:02
Plant People
Hmm.
00:13:06
Jessica
like Because we'll talk through and say, like ah we'll share certain plants you know that it is a good time or it's not a good time.
00:13:07
Plant People
Hmm.
00:13:13
Jessica
But we've recently had a lot of storms come through. So it's a good time to prune any time when you have storm damage that has occurred.
00:13:21
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:13:22
Jessica
It's better to take that off and get a good, nice pruning cut on a tree than letting it hang there and potentially...
00:13:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:30
Jessica
cause more damage or you know tear into that bark uh by leaving it there so that's like my one thing i always tell people like when they asking you know when to prune and it's like well it's not you know they know it's not a good time to prune certain things but if you have any damage or dead wood or something like that that's like the yeah go for it yeah
00:13:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:13:47
Plant People
That's the 3Ds, right? Dead, disease, damage. Yeah, those are any time anytime, anytime. That's the 3D rule. I use that over and over again. And that's for shrubs as well as trees.
00:13:57
Plant People
That's a great point, Jessica, is any time of the year for those things. And I also point out as far as any time of the year when you're talking about landscape trees especially, but also for two different things, and that's water sprouts, which are up in the tree, these
00:14:13
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:14:14
Plant People
pencil-like growth that can accumulate if limbs go below a certain angle and you get bunches of those. For water sprouts up in a plant or suckers coming out around the roots, they fall into that category too when I'm talking to folks. So anything dead, disease, or damage, and then water sprouts and suckers, that's sort of at any time of the year that because you're um you're working towards overall plant health with those things.
00:14:37
Plant People
With water sprouts and suckers, they don't add a lot to the plant. In some cases they can detract from ah the plant, but also the dead disease design, dying stuff either poses a ah health hazard to you, not just the plant in the case of dead wood, but also if it's a diseased or you know crossover branches that are creating wounds and stuff, any time of the year.
00:14:44
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:14:44
Jessica
Mm-hmm. huh
00:15:00
Plant People
So that's a great place to start. Because the overall goal, right, is the longevity of the plant the health of the plant. um And so you have to take those things into account in the bigger picture. Those are good to do anytime during the year.
00:15:15
Plant People
um
00:15:15
Brett
Yeah.
00:15:15
Plant People
That's a good point, Jessica.
00:15:16
Brett
And I would, I would say too, that the, the optimal window is the optimal window, not because it's the only time of year that you can prune. And if you do it any other time, the thing's going to die.
00:15:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:27
Brett
It's just because that's the least stressful time to do that to the plant.
00:15:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:15:32
Brett
It's the most optimal.
00:15:32
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:15:33
Brett
So imagine me giving you a task after you've worked a full day and then you had to take care of the kids and you did the dishes and you're you're stressed out.
00:15:33
Plant People
Yes.
00:15:41
Brett
you know That's not the optimal time for me to ask you to do something for me. Whereas if I could come in right at the beginning of your day when you're fresh, you know good night's sleep and I ask you to do something, I'm ah i'm likely to have a better result.
00:15:53
Brett
It's the same way if you can prune it just before bud break on a tree.
00:15:57
Plant People
Yeah, dormancy, yeah.
00:15:58
Brett
that What that does is, you know physiologically, as you think about it, just as but before dormancy ends, you're taking and you're removing that thing. And then the whole tree comes back to life, so to speak. you know it It pushes out all its ah its new leaves.
00:16:13
Brett
It doesn't put a lot of new energy into that branch. It puts the energy into the other branches. There's a lot of ah nutrients and water and other things flowing.
00:16:17
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:16:20
Brett
It's able to heal quickly. So that's why, for instance, you wouldn't want to wouldn't want to necessarily prune it right before winter starts, right before it becomes dormant, because now you have this open wound that's just going to sit there through all of winter.
00:16:28
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:16:28
Plant People
and
00:16:34
Brett
It's going to get wet. It's going to get you know cold and all these other things. that So that's that's the
Training vs. Pruning Trees
00:16:40
Brett
reasoning. But as rayis Ray and and um and Jessica have said, there it's if you're not going to do a ton of pruning any time of year is kind of OK on something that's pretty ah robust and strong.
00:16:52
Plant People
yeah
00:16:52
Brett
But it's really just about trying to optimize the best time of year to not stress the plant out.
00:16:56
Plant People
Yeah, a lot of that, what you just mentioned, Brett, to me is like sugar content.
00:16:56
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:17:00
Plant People
That's a weird angle at coming at that. But when things start to go dormant and the sugar content comes up in the tree, we call that hardening off. And when it has high sugar content, it has greater resistance to freezing.
00:17:11
Plant People
know, it's like plant antifreeze.
00:17:12
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:17:12
Plant People
And one of the things you don't want to do after mid to late summer in a lot of plants like boxwoods and maples and things like that, you don't want to do that late season pruning because then you cause a ah reaction in the plant that causes a flush of new growth. And that new growth is not going to harden off before winter.
00:17:29
Plant People
And we see that as the most common scenario. And I'm sure, ah Jessica, you as being in a county office, you get that question all the time. People have pruned their boxwoods and then they get this new growth and they get 16 inches of of, you know, dead area the next spring.
00:17:38
Jessica
Right.
00:17:43
Plant People
You just know what they did. They pruned late summer, got that new growth.
00:17:45
Jessica
right
00:17:47
Plant People
And that's what Brett's talking about is that, um, that that proper time when the plant, you know, ah can heal the quickest or compartmentalize the pruning cut the quickest.
00:17:59
Plant People
there's There's a certain timing factor in there. That's ideal. Now, we we do some things all throughout the year, but ideally, it's during that time that Brett just mentioned for but for a lot of different plants, right?
00:18:09
Plant People
That's a good good rule of thumb. And it all has to do with the plant hardening off, starting that process in mid to late summer, going into winter when it's mostly dormant and very low meristematic conditions.
00:18:19
Jessica
Thank
00:18:20
Plant People
like activity at growing points of the tree. You make the pruning cut, the tree doesn't know the the the difference, and then it calluses or compartmentalizes that injury, ah that pruning cut, ah very well.
00:18:32
Brett
So I'm front-loading my commentary because after this, I have everybody else is going to know way more than me. So, so, i so I think we summarized that for trees, most, most kind of landscape, traditional landscape trees, typically you would want to think about trying, if you can, trying to prune in basically late winter, early spring in Kentucky.
00:18:53
Plant People
Yeah.
00:18:54
Brett
That's typically in like February and March is when a lot of that dormancy transition starts to happen.
00:18:55
Plant People
Yeah. Yep.
00:18:59
Alexis
do Same with fruit trees too. If you've got a couple fruit trees, um you'll start seeing that happen.
00:19:01
Jessica
Yep.
00:19:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:06
Jessica
Yeah.
00:19:06
Brett
cool
00:19:06
Plant People
fruit Fruit trees are, that that's a good example.
00:19:07
Jessica
ah
00:19:09
Plant People
And and that we could even have a separate show just on pruning of fruit trees.
00:19:12
Jessica
yeah
00:19:13
Plant People
But yeah, like ah that's a good point, Alexis, on the fruit trees. You prune those on the dormant.
00:19:17
Alexis
What about, sorry, this just hit me and probably most of our listeners, this does not apply to, but maybe you're plant nerds and you just like to know things. ah Vineyards, grapes, when are they pruning grapes?
00:19:30
Alexis
I always, dormant period also.
00:19:30
Plant People
A dormant period also for the most part.
00:19:31
Brett
more Similar time.
00:19:32
Jessica
Okay.
00:19:32
Alexis
Okay, I thought so, but then I was like,
00:19:32
Brett
Yeah. February, March.
00:19:33
Plant People
and And grape pruning is really interesting.
00:19:35
Jessica
Do they...
00:19:35
Plant People
We had a discussion yesterday Master Gardeners. If you prune break grapes properly, I mean, they, yes, they look like they have been butchered.
00:19:41
Alexis
they flush like crazy, yeah.
00:19:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:19:44
Jessica
yeah Like there's not, yeah, there's like nothing left when they prune them, it looks like.
00:19:44
Plant People
But.
00:19:47
Plant People
Well.
00:19:47
Alexis
Yeah.
00:19:48
Plant People
With grapes, it's a little different.
00:19:48
Alexis
Yeah.
00:19:50
Plant People
but Well, it's not ah greatly different um because nothing, no wood that you see in and very early winter is going to bear fruit. It's only on the new flushes, and that's how you manage like things like grapes, which are a little bit specialized, but also super cool the way you manage those.
00:20:02
Alexis
Right.
00:20:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:06
Alexis
Yeah.
00:20:07
Brett
And part of the strategy is you don't want to have too many shoots because you want the grapes that are on the shoots there to get as many nutrients, the right amount of nutrients as possible, but you want enough shoots that you get a good yield.
00:20:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:13
Plant People
Yeah. yeah
00:20:16
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:20:17
Brett
So there's, um, yeah.
00:20:19
Alexis
quality over quantity kind of issue.
00:20:19
Plant People
In Kentucky, that's that's a huge problem with grapes. Our soils are so good for the most part. They're almost too good as far as the nutrient profile goes. And we have too much leaf cover in some cases, or too much vigor is the right word I'm looking for.
00:20:34
Plant People
And it's really hard to balance that fruit load versus vigor. So yeah, that's a tough one.
00:20:37
Brett
Yeah, good. There's all kinds of strategies with great, with great training and pruning. And we we should definitely try to get, ah get Jeff on here.
00:20:42
Plant People
Yeah.
00:20:45
Alexis
Yeah.
00:20:45
Plant People
Yeah, that that's ah that'd be a great topic.
00:20:46
Brett
Jeff Wheeler, shout out Jeff Wheeler.
00:20:47
Alexis
Adding it.
00:20:49
Brett
ah he works at the, works with UK horticulture, and we get South Farm, big grape nerd, big pruning nerd.
00:20:56
Plant People
Yeah, because because fruit you start to talk about fruit and you get specialized and we will muddy the water quick, but it's also a great topic.
00:20:57
Jessica
can answer all the questions. Yeah.
00:20:58
Alexis
Uh-huh.
00:21:03
Plant People
I don't know why we haven't thought about that before, but that's ah that's ah that's a really good one.
00:21:06
Alexis
Yeah.
00:21:06
Jessica
Yeah.
00:21:06
Alexis
Not to take us off topic. I just, it dawned on me.
00:21:09
Plant People
No.
00:21:09
Jessica
Yeah, no, that's it.
00:21:10
Plant People
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:21:10
Jessica
That's because I was thinking about that, too, is because of when Ray mentioned just about pruning apples, like as you could do, we could do a whole episode on just like fruit pruning because like there's different considerations with like how old your apple tree is, right?
00:21:23
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:24
Jessica
Like if you have new little baby apple trees, you're going to wait a little longer to prune those.
00:21:28
Alexis
Jessica.
00:21:28
Jessica
And you were. Yeah, I know. I just I p pray i waited as long as I could ah to prune, you know, versus like older established trees.
00:21:32
Plant People
Yeah.
00:21:35
Jessica
And there's all sorts of things that go into it.
00:21:36
Plant People
Yeah. And fruit trees, we talk about the difference.
00:21:39
Jessica
Fruits a different ballgame. Yeah.
00:21:40
Plant People
Yeah. To do the difference between training, which is the first three years versus pruning, which takes place year four on. So a completely different kind of thing when you're setting things like scaffold limbs, if you're talking about semi dwarf or,
00:21:51
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:21:52
Plant People
Now everything's high-density orchards if you're commercial in Kentucky, which is a completely different pruning system.
00:21:57
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:21:59
Plant People
But, you know, the basic things that Brett started us off with, as far as timing, that still applies in those situations where you're trying to make pruning cuts, not only when the tree is going to heal the best, but also...
00:21:59
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:22:10
Plant People
um It also involves diseases, doesn't it? Because a lot of if you do late season pruning as a homeowner, especially that may not have cover sprays of fungicides and bactericides, you also increase the risk of diseases if you prune later in the year. That's not to say in some situations we already said, you know, that's fine in some situations where you have damaged wood or whatever.
00:22:32
Plant People
But if you prune during the dormant period, it also decreases the likelihood of spreading diseases. And that that's a big one to do for homeowners.
00:22:38
Brett
Quick PSA, think about ah plan for sanitizing, cleaning and sanitizing your tools between sessions. If you know that a tree has disease, you want to sanitize after you use the tools in that place.
00:22:52
Brett
There's a whole thing of air about not spreading disease.
00:22:53
Plant People
Yeah.
00:22:54
Brett
So not that we've kind of gone down a more technical, which is fine because we are dorks.
00:22:57
Plant People
I know.
00:22:57
Alexis
Sorry.
00:22:57
Jessica
my
00:22:59
Alexis
Hort culture.
00:23:00
Jessica
Plant nerds.
00:23:01
Brett
Oh, I mean, hort culture. But I think so. One of the things that has happened to me is that ah my wife and gardening partner who was featured on a previous podcast has planted a bunch of perennial flower things And I need to know when to prune those.
00:23:22
Brett
So guide me, please.
00:23:25
Plant People
things that Things that flower and they're perennials, which are woody things.
00:23:27
Alexis
are they herbaceous i guess i should start off with their herbaceous or or woody both maybe we assume both yeah so maybe you start with herbaceous what are your else thoughts on that uh they don't get woody grow so they're perennial they come back every year ah but they're not gonna have like woody stems uh on them yeah um usually yeah yeah
00:23:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:23:29
Jessica
Yes. Or Woody's.
00:23:31
Plant People
Yeah. My mind of me over immediately went to tie her brushes.
00:23:34
Brett
Both. All of those.
00:23:36
Plant People
Yeah.
00:23:37
Brett
Herbaceous meaning. Which one that?
00:23:46
Brett
Like they die all the way back to the ground?
00:23:48
Plant People
and And Brett loaded up by letting us know, I think immediately, didn't you, Brett, that blooms are important in this scenario, right?
00:23:48
Jessica
Yep.
00:23:49
Brett
Usually. Okay.
00:23:50
Jessica
Yep.
00:23:56
Plant People
Ornamental blooms are important.
00:23:56
Brett
Blooms are, blooms are important. Blooms are important.
00:23:59
Plant People
Yeah. Which changes the changes the discussion a little bit. It really does.
00:24:03
Brett
So so you're saying if I prune one way, i won't get flowers and if I prune another way, I will?
00:24:09
Plant People
In a lot of cases. Yes. And I did that to myself last year, but after you guys talk about this, I'll tell you the boneheaded thing I did last year.
00:24:10
Jessica
and and here
00:24:15
Jessica
And your your timing, right, as we've mentioned ah bunch already, timing is a big part of it.
00:24:22
Plant People
Timing based on bloom. And you were talking to us a little bit before the, we got started on the show, Jessica, about that a little bit as far as timing goes, weren't you?
00:24:29
Jessica
Yeah, we were we were kind of talking about the things that help us remember when to prune certain plants because it can get confusing out there. But like, what is it? If they flower before the end of June, when do we prune those?
00:24:47
Jessica
They flower before, prune them right after, right afterwards.
00:24:50
Alexis
Right after, right.
00:24:50
Plant People
Yes.
00:24:51
Jessica
Yeah.
00:24:52
Plant People
The early bloomers.
00:24:52
Alexis
They're all good.
00:24:53
Plant People
In Kentucky, we we call those early bloomers. If it's around June, beginning of June, we and kind of lump those in.
00:24:56
Jessica
Yep.
00:25:00
Plant People
Now, that's not going to be true of other areas of the country, but for Kentucky, our golden rule is the beginning of June. We call those early bloomers. And you said when, Jessica, if they're early bloomers?
00:25:08
Jessica
you You prune them right after you finished you're finished blooming.
00:25:11
Plant People
Yes.
00:25:11
Jessica
Great.
00:25:12
Alexis
And so if you're not in Kentucky or in a similar zone, the type of plant might help you figure out like, okay, when does it bloom for me?
00:25:12
Plant People
Yes.
00:25:18
Jessica
right
00:25:20
Alexis
And so you're thinking like lilacs, forsythia, smokebush, all those things that are, you know, flower earlier in the season, um though you're going to, you're going to prune them right after bloom.
00:25:23
Plant People
Yeah. who
00:25:33
Alexis
So, you know, whether that's June or if you're in the mountains of Colorado, that could be July, it's
00:25:38
Brett
Which one is Weigula?
00:25:38
Plant People
Yeah.
00:25:39
Jessica
Right.
00:25:40
Brett
Was that how you say it?
00:25:42
Alexis
Vigelia?
00:25:43
Plant People
Would you?
00:25:43
Brett
Yeah, that one.
00:25:43
Plant People
You
00:25:44
Alexis
Yeah, that's how I say it.
00:25:45
Brett
I don't speak French.
00:25:45
Alexis
Is that how? and This is Latin.
00:25:48
Plant People
don't...
00:25:48
Brett
I'm just teasing.
00:25:48
Plant People
you know
00:25:49
Alexis
Thank you very much.
00:25:49
Brett
I'm just teasing.
00:25:51
Alexis
I say Vigelia.
00:25:51
Brett
Okay.
00:25:52
Alexis
What do you guys say?
00:25:53
Plant People
That's a Wojellia, yeah. yeah
00:25:54
Alexis
Okay, because Latin is a dead language, so...
00:25:54
Jessica
I do not say that and I'm not going to even attempt to say my version.
00:25:56
Plant People
I've heard it both ways, Waglia and Wojellia.
00:25:58
Brett
ah did does did latin Does Latin have a G like a just sound in it? You know who studied Latin? Emily Spencer, former but podcast guest.
00:26:04
Alexis
Who? Hmm...
00:26:07
Brett
She also said that she laughed at my corgito ergo S joke. ah she's She's in the 1%. So she'll she'll have to let us know.
00:26:13
Plant People
She got it.
00:26:15
Brett
But is that in the the Blooms Before June category?
00:26:19
Plant People
I forget with that one.
00:26:19
Alexis
Uh, yes.
00:26:20
Plant People
It's in there, and I looked that one up.
00:26:21
Jessica
do yeah yeah
00:26:22
Alexis
Yeah, yeah. It blooms like, yeah, it's right on the fringe.
00:26:23
Plant People
It's an early bloomer.
00:26:23
Brett
Okay. Okay.
00:26:24
Plant People
It's right on the fringe of early bloomers.
00:26:27
Brett
So you're saying, you're saying
00:26:27
Plant People
Yeah.
00:26:27
Jessica
like snowball bush right is that one hardy yeah
00:26:30
Alexis
Viburnum, yeah.
00:26:30
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah, we talked about that.
00:26:31
Brett
if I got that thing and I want it, i don't know why i said it like that.
00:26:35
Jessica
but
00:26:35
Brett
If I got that thing, that kind of just came out.
00:26:37
Alexis
That thing thing.
00:26:38
Brett
I got that thing. ah if i'm If I'm out walking around my garden with a handful of imitation crab meat and I'm looking at my, i why what is it?
00:26:45
Plant People
Yes.
00:26:48
Brett
Wigelia?
00:26:48
Alexis
Wajalia? Wajalia?
00:26:49
Plant People
What'd you tell you?
00:26:49
Brett
Wigelia.
00:26:50
Jessica
I jelly it.
00:26:51
Brett
um
00:26:51
Jessica
Yeah.
00:26:52
Brett
And it's a little overgrown from where I would prefer it to be, but I would like to have flowers this year. I should wait until it blooms, drops the flowers, and then prune.
00:27:03
Brett
Is that correct?
00:27:03
Plant People
Which kind of kind of makes sense.
00:27:04
Jessica
Yeah.
00:27:04
Alexis
Correct.
00:27:05
Plant People
I mean, it's the answer is sort of in the timing because the early bloomers said the the buds are there when? Well, they're there early in the year. And if you prune them dormant, you're pruning what? You're pruning the flower buds.
00:27:15
Jessica
Right.
00:27:16
Alexis
So, yeah.
00:27:16
Plant People
So that's why that rule works so well is you have to wait until after because if you prune before, like I did last year on my angel wing lilacs, I wasn't thinking. And my wife got very upset that they didn't bloom, but I did not tell her that pruned.
00:27:28
Plant People
pruned all the blooms off, not thinking I've got French lilacs and then, you know, the white lilacs.
00:27:30
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:27:34
Brett
but so you're So you're telling me you you pruned a lilac, one of these early, early flowering things, and it did not die.
00:27:34
Plant People
And that was my fault.
00:27:37
Plant People
I pruned it. Yes. No, it didn't. But see, that was my point. It was overgrown. My objectives were not the flowers. That's my wife's primary directive, you know, not to quote some Star Trek.
00:27:51
Plant People
That's her prime directive is flowering my, yes, indeed, Brett. um But my, ah my reasoning for pruning that dormant was I was more concerned about the overgrown nature
Complexities of Pruning Hydrangeas
00:28:01
Plant People
of that. i hadn't pruned it in a while.
00:28:03
Plant People
ah So that's why I went ahead and did it knowing that for the overall health of the plant, it was not going to impact that. And it was better done during dormant stage, but I was not going to get blooms that year.
00:28:09
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:28:14
Plant People
But did I fess up to that? That I, it was me. No, I did not fess up to that. And Jennifer hopefully will never listen to this episode.
00:28:21
Brett
this This is making stuff make sense because I hear i I've watched videos and stuff and this is on. Yeah, I'm i'm learning along with our listeners here, but but hearing hearing people say
00:28:28
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:28:33
Brett
this stuff is really kind of out of hand or overgrown. We need to cut it back. And yes, we're going to sacrifice some blooms this year for the sake of the overall structure of the plant in future years.
00:28:40
Jessica
huh
00:28:43
Brett
And that's, so is that an example I've heard of like the idea of, of blooming on or flowering on old wood versus new wood?
00:28:43
Alexis
and
00:28:52
Brett
Is that what we're talking about here?
00:28:53
Alexis
yeah Yeah, so so old wood yeah it means like
00:28:55
Plant People
Yeah, a little bit.
00:28:58
Alexis
pretty literally like it's, ah it's flowering on the last year's wood.
00:29:04
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:29:04
Alexis
And the new wood is going to be on the new growth. And so it took me like, ah i don't know, it doesn't seem right that it took me a while to like to really figure this out.
00:29:14
Alexis
When you think about like the life cycle of plants, right? But um I like to put things in an actual calendar when my brain thinks about it. And so, so if you take a lilac as an example, lilacs are, you know, historically a spring bloomer.
00:29:28
Alexis
And so you, if that So the the blooms that it's going to make in spring of 2025, the buds were created in summer and fall of 2024.
00:29:43
Alexis
And so I'm going to prune it in you know early summer, late spring, early summer 2024.
00:29:43
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:29:43
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:29:43
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:29:49
Alexis
then it gives it and then it gives it all summer and fall and winter to create this bud stage and then it's going to bloom again and then I'm going prune it and then it starts over versus new wood you are going to prune it in the you know quote unquote like you know dormant stage because you want a flush of new growth because that's where the buds form so the more new growth you have assuming that the plant is healthy has good roots gets the water but but blah blah blah in a perfect situation the more new growth you have the more flowers you have
00:30:09
Jessica
ah
00:30:20
Alexis
And so then you prune off all that old dead stuff.
00:30:20
Jessica
Right.
00:30:23
Alexis
And like hydrangeas are like historically the hardest thing.
00:30:27
Jessica
Yes.
00:30:27
Alexis
and We all, I and Jessica both always have to look up which one is which.
00:30:32
Plant People
The macrophilias, yeah, the old fashioned ones, yeah.
00:30:33
Alexis
Like, like Yeah, people will send us pictures and they'll be like, hey, ah when do I prune this hydrangea? Number one, they only send you a picture when it's completely like you know dormant and all you see are like the hanging flowers that are brown.
00:30:45
Jessica
So yeah, you can't, you're like, ah how do I identify this?
00:30:47
Alexis
And you're like, ah think that's a macrophylla or maybe it's an arborescence um a genus.
00:30:52
Plant People
Yeah.
00:30:53
Alexis
and But The reason why it matters so much versus a lilac for the most part, a lilac is a lilac is a lilac is because hydrangeas, there are new wood bloomers, there are old wood bloomers, and then there's new newer varieties that will do both.
00:31:05
Plant People
Yeah.
00:31:05
Jessica
huh
00:31:05
Plant People
Yeah.
00:31:08
Plant People
yeah
00:31:08
Jessica
Like, you yeah so you could chop them up and you're still going to get stuff from them.
00:31:08
Alexis
And so you might get multiple blooms.
00:31:14
Alexis
Right. Or you could not chop them up one year if you have the space for it and you get two cycles of blooms.
00:31:19
Plant People
The fact that through breeding, um they i mean it's a it's a plant that I would not have considered personally for myself, not the old-fashioned type hydrangeas.
00:31:19
Jessica
Right.
00:31:28
Plant People
Because there was so much winter kill, you didn't get a consistent bloom every year.
00:31:30
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:31:32
Plant People
But that was an industry that completely changed through breeding when... They patented all of these cultivars and varieties ah that were so-called ever-blooming. They bloom on new wood.
00:31:42
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:31:43
Plant People
I mean, when our when our PG hydrangeas at the office, they get to be about six foot tall. They get a little overgrown. What do I do? They're a healthy plant. I'll take them down to 18 inches in the winter, and then everybody kind of freaks out as they drive by, and they come in, they're like, what did you do with your hydrangeas? They're beautiful. I'm like, about every three or four years, I cut those down to 18 to 20 inches, and then they flush back, and because they're ever-blooming.
00:32:06
Plant People
And there's so much easier to take care of. But the fact that that that that plant, ever-blooming hydrangeas, completely changed that industry and brought back
00:32:13
Jessica
and Yeah. And it's hard for people who like maybe move to a new house and there's already established hydrangeas there.
00:32:18
Alexis
Yeah.
00:32:20
Jessica
And then they purchase these new ever blooming ones. Right. So they're going to like try to prune everything the same. And then they're suddenly like, Hey, when we moved here, these bloomed great.
00:32:30
Jessica
And now they're not blooming.
00:32:30
Alexis
then
00:32:31
Jessica
is it, do I need to fertilize them? Do I need this?
00:32:34
Alexis
Right.
00:32:34
Jessica
I need that. And then you have to try to find out like, okay, what exactly, what type of hydrangea do you want? you know, was already there.
00:32:41
Alexis
the
00:32:42
Jessica
And it could be just as something as simple as, you know, you're you might be accidentally pruning off all your buds.
00:32:47
Plant People
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:47
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:48
Jessica
So yeah.
00:32:49
Plant People
And it is confusing, yeah.
00:32:49
Alexis
And I always have to like revisit this every year because as someone who grows flowers for cuts, right? Like you're cutting off the bloom. So it's like, does that matter? And so like for lilacs, as an example, right, you you are already going to prune them after they bloom. So I go ahead and do my pruning as part of that cutting process.
00:33:09
Alexis
And that's kind of how I cut. So I might leave some blooms um just because that's for the overall health of the plant. Right. So that's part of that kind of thought process
00:33:17
Plant People
Yeah.
Techniques for Thinning Cuts
00:33:19
Plant People
And here we're, as we're talking about lilacs, maybe in a good spot to, to talk about multi-stemmed shrubs and lilac is a great example, a pruning strategy that has worked so well for me over the years.
00:33:19
Alexis
of Oh, yeah.
00:33:19
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:33:26
Alexis
Yeah.
00:33:32
Plant People
And you'll see this documented in a lot of information at the university of Kentucky. But when you have shrubs like Rose of Sharon or lilac, any of those, um, talking about general plant health, um,
00:33:44
Plant People
people We get a lot of questions how to prune those because so many times I go out on a site visit and I see that people are ah heading those back. They're just making top cuts to bring the overall size down.
00:33:55
Plant People
When on multi-liter shrubs like that, it's so much better to do a thinning cut because an important concept in pruning, very important concept is heading back and thinning. Heading back is when you shorten a branch.
00:34:08
Plant People
uh, partially thinning is when you take a branch all the way down to the ground in this case of lilacs or back to a trunk. Now, when you're, we're talking about lilacs about every three years, I have a brand new plant, actually four years, meaning that any wood that's older than three years old, going into four years, I go in at the top of the ground and I cut that out because it becomes unthrifty.
00:34:31
Plant People
Um, And that is a very important concept in in pruning.
00:34:36
Brett
Thank you.
00:34:36
Plant People
And it's important in, ah especially these multi-leadered shrubs that we're talking about, not talking about blooms, no offense, Annie, Brett's wife. ah
00:34:45
Alexis
Thank you.
00:34:45
Plant People
But there you're just taking the tips off. And that's not really getting to the heart of the matter on these multi-leadered shrubs. You're actually going and you're thinning those down, taking off old wood to the ground.
00:34:57
Plant People
And that's how you can maintain these like gorgeous bloom loads. So ah just kind keep that in mind.
00:35:02
Brett
to To be fair, I also also enjoy flowers ah too.
00:35:03
Plant People
To be fair, you do. Okay.
00:35:06
Brett
Yeah, I just had to sort of set it up as a little bit of a scenario, little bit of a bit.
00:35:06
Jessica
good
00:35:08
Plant People
Yeah, you had to throw that out there.
00:35:11
Brett
um Yeah, I think i think if i had a it one extremely petty thing that I could like implement, it would be that you have to get a you have to get trained and get a license in order to buy a hedge trimmer.
00:35:25
Jessica
yeah
00:35:25
Brett
Because the number of people who use a hedge trimmer to prune things that do not, that is not appropriate for, I mean, and and I would almost go to the point of like, I understand if you're a professional and you got to move on and and you're trimming certain things.
00:35:26
Alexis
Yes.
00:35:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:35:28
Jessica
Yeah. Right.
00:35:32
Jessica
right
00:35:40
Brett
I would never use a hedge trimmer to trim anything. I would go and trim, snip every little thing myself and and it that gives me a little more control. i also enjoy the process, but that that's, yeah, that's,
00:35:49
Alexis
Obviously.
00:35:50
Plant People
Brett, Alexis, you guys that are on campus, do you, and I always ask people this, like, and I pick on taxes because when you shear taxes, yeah, you can keep it nice and uniform, but that's a kind of a heading back cut and it makes everything real thick and bushy and sunlight can't get in.
00:35:50
Alexis
Bonsai guy.
00:36:04
Plant People
But is there any good examples of like a taxes that is pruned the way you're talking about, Brett, where you're actually maintaining more of a natural growth habit of that? I'm always looking for good examples of those because it's amazing how different a plant that is pruned to different ways look.
00:36:14
Alexis
Yeah.
00:36:17
Jessica
ah I want to do that. I have two giant ones at my house that are like overgrown and I really want to prune them.
00:36:20
Plant People
I would love to do that. Yeah.
00:36:23
Alexis
yeah
00:36:25
Plant People
It takes a long time.
00:36:26
Jessica
Yeah.
00:36:27
Alexis
I've seen two sets of really beautiful ones that are incredibly old and someone went in and hacked them up appropriately ah in where they're almost like, almost like tree trees.
00:36:39
Alexis
I don't know.
00:36:39
Jessica
Yes.
00:36:40
Alexis
They're very artistic. And Jessica's been, and I have like Ood and Odd over one set together and they're at Udell Botanical Garden.
00:36:46
Plant People
Oh, I need to go there then.
00:36:46
Jessica
Mm hmm.
00:36:48
Alexis
And then that's Y E W Dell. dell because they're known for their use, ah their taxes.
00:36:52
Plant People
Nice.
00:36:53
Jessica
Get it? Taxes.
00:36:55
Brett
You taxed the common name of Texas.
00:36:55
Plant People
Yeah.
00:36:57
Alexis
And then the other one is at, ah oh, I just blanked on the name. It's a venue, but it's also a distillery and they do rum?
00:37:08
Alexis
No, they do gin. What's that place called?
00:37:11
Plant People
Hmm.
00:37:11
Alexis
um
00:37:11
Brett
What city is it in?
00:37:12
Alexis
The distillery that does gin here in Kentucky, I guess it's kind of Frankfurt, but I think it's technically not Frankfurt. Yeah.
00:37:19
Plant People
Like a, I forget this.
00:37:20
Alexis
Oh, you guys are gonna be mad when you realize.
00:37:20
Brett
know.
00:37:24
Jessica
Not Castle and Key.
00:37:24
Brett
Well,
00:37:25
Alexis
Castle and Key, Castle and Key.
00:37:26
Jessica
Is it Castle and Key?
00:37:26
Brett
okay
00:37:27
Jessica
Yeah.
00:37:27
Alexis
Castle and Key has a has a sunken garden that ah has some really beautiful old ewes that John Karloft has pruned up.
00:37:28
Plant People
have a good example of that
00:37:36
Plant People
that. I see yews that are pruned like that. Sometimes I even, ah I've heard people refer to that as cloud pruning or natural pruning, but yews look really different when you prune them naturally.
00:37:44
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:37:44
Brett
Okay.
00:37:47
Plant People
um
00:37:48
Brett
Juniper's.
00:37:48
Plant People
And yeah, junipers really do.
00:37:49
Alexis
Yeah.
00:37:50
Plant People
Yeah. Which we haven't even talked about evergreens yet.
00:37:51
Brett
Yeah. So, and, Just in case anyone out there is like, what the heck you said, heading back, you said thinning, you said Brett is trying to ban, Brett's trying to ban some hedge trimmers.
00:37:58
Plant People
Yeah. Break it down for us, Brett. That's an important one. Yeah.
00:38:03
Brett
So like, imagine you walk up to this plant that's very, very thick and you want to compact it.
00:38:03
Plant People
Yeah.
00:38:04
Alexis
so
00:38:09
Brett
You want to remove some of the foliage. You want to in some way, you know, affect it. a heading back. So Alexis sent um sent us a message in our little chat here to say that heading back is cutting just the tip.
00:38:20
Brett
So it's just removing the tip. And what that's going to do is it's going to and it's going to make that plant likely produce buds at that cut site and in some cases further back.
00:38:28
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:38:29
Brett
And so it's going to increase the density of the foliage of that in particular thing.
00:38:34
Plant People
Yes. it And sometimes that's desired and sometimes, you know, people don't think about that's what's going to happen.
00:38:39
Brett
If the thing is crazy overgrown and you, and you want, but you want to create some space in it.
00:38:39
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:38:43
Brett
And Ray talked about cloud pruning this idea where you're creating these little, these little puffs, these little clouds of foliage across the plant, but you can see the structure, you can see the branches, you know, that, that might look like physically reaching in with a pruner back to a branch further in and cutting off an entire branch and removing that
00:39:02
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:39:03
Brett
it might be ah taking and cutting that branch all the way back to the, ah to the trunk itself.
00:39:06
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:08
Brett
I mean, as we start to move into some of the bonsai techniques and the topiary techniques that people you'll see that people use to make these crazy English garden, topiary gardens and other things like.
00:39:08
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:39:17
Alexis
Or like um like a red twig dogwood is another good example.
00:39:22
Brett
Hmm.
00:39:23
Alexis
So you've got lots and lots of stems coming out of the ground or a crepe myrtle often are like this because they can die back to the ground.
00:39:23
Plant People
Yeah, it is.
00:39:24
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:39:25
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:28
Brett
Hmm.
00:39:31
Alexis
So you've got lots and lots of shoots coming out and there's too there's just too many. It's either too big, it's filling the space, it's too round,
00:39:37
Plant People
It will overwhelm you if you don't address it.
00:39:39
Alexis
Right. Or it's not getting enough light in and you can be having an end airflow.
00:39:39
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:44
Alexis
And so especially with like dogwoods, I get a lot of cankers on them.
00:39:46
Plant People
Powdering. Yeah. Powdering mildews and things.
00:39:48
Alexis
They need more airflow. So you will go in and cut off those you know branches all the way to the ground.
00:39:49
Plant People
Mm-hmm.
00:39:54
Alexis
So you go from having 10 shoots coming out of the ground to seven shoots coming out of the ground.
00:39:58
Plant People
Yeah.
00:39:58
Alexis
So that's that thinning process.
00:39:59
Plant People
And the old ones, the the bark, if you look at like dogwoods are a great example and lilacs, whatever, you can look at the bark and almost and tell the old wood because it it's just starts to not look, it starts to look rough.
00:40:12
Plant People
It's cracked.
00:40:12
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:40:13
Plant People
It's just not meant to be there forever. And I've had, you know, big stands of lilacs that I'll go up to and they've not been pruned in years. And and literally all the center is dead. And they're wondering why it's not blooming.
00:40:22
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:40:23
Plant People
But, you know, then we have the discussion you just mentioned, Alexis, for all those things. And if you can get those kind of two golden rules down, number one is, you know, when you're pruning, always prune to a living point, which means you're pruning to ah a growing area, which is a bud or a trunk with a proper cut.
00:40:41
Plant People
And number, you know, two is just the way that you prune. And that's the thinning and heading back. If you know those two principles, prune to a growing cut or a living point, I'm sorry.
00:40:52
Plant People
And then those two cuts we just mentioned that Brett kind of clarified.
00:40:54
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:40:55
Plant People
If you know those two things, you know 80% of pruning.
00:40:58
Alexis
ah
00:40:58
Plant People
And you use those principles over and over and over again. um Those two things and pruning is is more than half the battle.
00:41:05
Brett
Yeah.
00:41:06
Alexis
and ah And if you don't know how much to cut back, the good rule of thumb is no more than one-fourth. Now, if it's like something really crazy, really overgrown, really lush, um you might be able to get away with like a third.
00:41:13
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:19
Alexis
You can cut back to a third.
00:41:20
Brett
yeah
00:41:21
Alexis
That's like ah considered a much harder prune.
00:41:21
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:23
Alexis
But if you are cautious and maybe new to this, go with a quarter. Overall plant size, take it down by 25%.
00:41:28
Plant People
Yeah.
00:41:29
Alexis
30% going to be... um or 35%, whatever, 33% is going to be ah more what people who have experience doing know a lot more about the plant.
00:41:39
Plant People
yeah
00:41:40
Brett
yeah
00:41:42
Alexis
um We don't even want to talk to Brett on the way he prunes bonsais because it's a totally different, that's ah that's an episode by itself ah because those pruning techniques are not the same.
00:41:46
Jessica
Yes, different ball game with that.
00:41:51
Plant People
A good one.
00:41:53
Alexis
Although the understanding of the way plants work, I would venture to say is going to be the same. So it's just taking those principles in a different way.
00:42:02
Plant People
I mean, I mean.
00:42:03
Brett
the or The more established it is, the longer it's gone since a heavy prune.
00:42:04
Plant People
Yeah.
00:42:07
Plant People
yeah
00:42:07
Brett
Means that like it's a little more resilient and robust. I'm talking about regular trees, not bonsai trees.
00:42:11
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:42:11
Brett
It's true for this to them too. but um But like in the case of, I think of the pruning journey as something you're not going to accomplish in one year.
00:42:21
Brett
So while you would love to have a plant that was more compact or that was, you know, back this way, do not sacrifice the plant's health just to achieve your aesthetic goals for it.
00:42:21
Alexis
Boom, nailed it.
00:42:22
Jessica
Right.
00:42:28
Jessica
right
00:42:30
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:42:30
Brett
And so like, for instance, when I'm, when we moved in, we had two dogwoods that were cared for really beautifully for like 50 years. And then in the last 10 years, the person who lived there didn't do anything. And so beautiful trunk lines, like really well sculpted, but the top was horrendous, needed tremendous thinning, all kinds of water shoots and everything else that had caused problems.
00:42:50
Brett
But i I pushed them to ah about that tipping point between a fourth and a third.
00:42:55
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:42:55
Brett
And I said, okay, that's it.
00:42:55
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:42:57
Brett
and And I worked on it over the next 10 years almost. And each year I take off a little bit less. But that first year that I took off that third, I let it i didn't touch it again for like two years. I let it fully you know grow back. i let it and it And it did. And they were established. But I definitely agree with that of
00:43:16
Plant People
Multiple year process.
00:43:17
Brett
Don't push it too far and too fast.
00:43:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:43:19
Brett
And you also get to learn how the tree works. You get to kind of assess its health.
00:43:22
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:23
Brett
And and that's a cool thing too.
00:43:23
Plant People
If you prune it too hard and fast, you get a lot of secondary issues, not only disease possible diseases, slow callusing and healing, but you get a lot of sun scald, especially in like those dogwoods, a lot of sun scald.
00:43:34
Alexis
Yeah.
00:43:36
Jessica
Right. Right.
00:43:36
Plant People
And you will get the plant, ah I guess a good way to say it is the plant kind of freaks out and sends signals that, hey, I'm dying.
00:43:42
Alexis
yeah
00:43:45
Plant People
And what does a plant that says, hey, I'm dying do?
00:43:45
Jessica
right
00:43:47
Alexis
Water sprouts.
00:43:47
Plant People
It produces lots more growth. So you compound the issue, like Brett said, if you go too far, you will know because the plant will produce a lot of soft, succulent growth, and it actually makes sure few your few future pruning processes way harder.
00:43:50
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:44:03
Alexis
like Yeah.
00:44:04
Brett
Okay, so i'm looking at in looking at how much time weve we have that we've already covered some ground here.
00:44:04
Alexis
It goes, ah.
00:44:09
Brett
um I want to briefly mention as far as tools that you might think
00:44:09
Plant People
Yeah.
Pruning Tools and Recommendations
00:44:12
Brett
about.
00:44:12
Plant People
Yeah, good, good.
00:44:13
Brett
um For me, I can accomplish just about everything that I want to do with this type of pruning with a set of hand pruners for slightly bigger branches, a set of what's called loppers, which are really just hand pruners with really long handles and beefier blades.
00:44:20
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:44:27
Brett
And then I also have a pruning saw for even bigger branches than that.
00:44:29
Plant People
Yeah.
00:44:30
Brett
But if you're pruning small stuff, I mean, hand pruners are the thing.
00:44:30
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:44:30
Plant People
Pruning saw is really important.
00:44:31
Jessica
I love pruning saw.
00:44:34
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:44:34
Plant People
Two types of hand pruners, bypass, which is for what, Brett? That's for the living wood. When you have the, like the curved blade that bypasses the anvil section, it's actually bypasses that. um So the bypass is good for living wood.
00:44:50
Brett
yeah the So the bypass is kind of more like a scissors where they they but they pass by each other as they cut.
00:44:53
Plant People
Yes. They literally bypass them.
00:44:57
Brett
And then the anvil is more like ah it's like a cutting a knife on a cutting board where it chops into the flat surface.
00:45:01
Plant People
Yeah. And better for like really tough, more dead wood. I don't use anvil pruners very often.
00:45:08
Alexis
No, ah but I like honestly didn't even know the difference until you just told me And then I was like, oh yeah, I've seen those.
00:45:08
Brett
Yeah, I don't even know.
00:45:08
Plant People
ah really don't.
00:45:09
Brett
I don't even know that out there.
00:45:12
Jessica
right
00:45:13
Alexis
Like I've, I only ever use the bypass.
00:45:13
Jessica
yeah I was thinking the same thing yeah
00:45:16
Plant People
And you mentioned loppers, Brett, just a tip.
00:45:16
Brett
Yeah.
00:45:19
Plant People
um I love the new loppers that when you are reading the the packaging, they'll they have short handles. You're like, oh, those are like mini loppers.
00:45:27
Brett
Yeah.
00:45:27
Plant People
But then you realize they have a three by force magnifier. They have a gear in there.
00:45:31
Brett
It's so awesome.
00:45:31
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:45:32
Plant People
And those are amazing. If you see those, buy them because they have literally the equivalent force of a lopper three times their size.
00:45:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:45:41
Plant People
But they're compact. They're easy to get in and prune things like lilacs where it's kind of confined.
00:45:45
Alexis
or the rat if ratcheting hand pruners uh are really great so like i i use snips most for most of my stuff because i'm you know printing smaller things but my uh the pruners that i want that i'm gonna ask for for christmas uh the that are larger from our woody stuff is gonna are ratcheting just to kind of save your hands um
00:45:45
Brett
I own a pair of those.
00:45:45
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:45:48
Plant People
Yeah, those are really nice.
00:45:52
Brett
Oh yeah.
00:46:05
Brett
Oh, wow. That's awesome.
00:46:05
Plant People
Yeah, those are really cool.
00:46:05
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:46:06
Alexis
So that would be good.
00:46:07
Jessica
And you...
00:46:07
Alexis
And then, yeah, the three-point saw is the, you know, like the arborist saw, the hand saw.
00:46:07
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:12
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:13
Alexis
They're really inexpensive, but they're specifically the three-point because they cut on the push in the pool and your life will be so much better.
00:46:18
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:19
Alexis
So if you get, yeah, yeah.
00:46:19
Jessica
And they make them in like miniaturized versions that you can like just hook on your, yeah.
00:46:24
Alexis
Folding ones.
00:46:25
Jessica
Love those.
00:46:25
Alexis
Yep.
00:46:26
Jessica
That's probably like one of my favorite pruning tools.
00:46:28
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:46:28
Plant People
We used to talk about bow saws in pruning, but but you can't use a bow saw in a Rose of Sharon or a lilac or something like that.
00:46:35
Alexis
No.
00:46:35
Plant People
So what you have is that little folding. That's my favorite thing in my garage is a folding saw.
00:46:38
Alexis
The folding three-point, yeah.
00:46:38
Jessica
Yep.
00:46:40
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:40
Jessica
That's mine too.
00:46:40
Alexis
Love that saw.
00:46:41
Plant People
Double cut folder.
00:46:41
Jessica
Yeah.
00:46:42
Plant People
Yeah.
00:46:42
Brett
The one I have is not there not folding.
00:46:42
Alexis
It's...
00:46:43
Brett
It has like a sheath.
00:46:45
Alexis
Oh, yeah, well.
00:46:45
Brett
It's like a Velco sheathed one.
00:46:45
Jessica
yeah
00:46:45
Plant People
yeah.
00:46:46
Alexis
you You whip it around like a sword. Mine's more like a switchblade. Mm-hmm.
00:46:49
Brett
Exactly.
00:46:49
Jessica
Yeah.
00:46:49
Brett
Exactly. if you strap it You can strap it to your leg, which I never do because I'm not like i but I kind of want to because it makes you look cool, you know?
00:46:51
Plant People
Nice.
00:46:52
Alexis
ah
00:46:52
Plant People
Two different street fights. Yeah.
00:46:57
Plant People
Samurai versus street punk. I love it. There's a showdown coming.
00:47:00
Brett
The other thing I briefly wanted to ask about was, so we talked about early blooming stuff.
00:47:00
Plant People
Yeah.
00:47:05
Brett
As far as the late blooming stuff, what's a couple of examples of what those are and just to make sure I'm understanding when is it that we could or should prune those.
00:47:15
Plant People
The late blooming stuff, as far as pruning, you could that's more of dormant pruning. So it's ah safe to do but because it forms those flower buds that are desirable later in the year.
00:47:18
Jessica
Yeah.
00:47:24
Jessica
like I'm like yeah um looking out my office window right now and there's a giant butterfly bush and butterfly bushes are very forgiving if you're going to her prune one of those.
00:47:24
Brett
So when I'm bringing my other trees and stuff.
00:47:25
Plant People
Yeah, yeah. When you're pruning all your other stuff.
00:47:37
Jessica
But like, you know, that's a good example of a dormant worm.
00:47:41
Alexis
or your um your native hydrangeas, your...
00:47:42
Jessica
Yep.
00:47:43
Plant People
The bellias and all of, yeah.
00:47:45
Jessica
yep
00:47:46
Plant People
Rose of Sharon. We we mentioned that one. It's a late bloomer. Yeah.
00:47:49
Alexis
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:47:51
Plant People
All of those.
00:47:51
Alexis
ye
00:47:51
Brett
What about ah what about Wisteria?
00:47:51
Plant People
Crape myrtles.
00:47:54
Brett
Where does that fit?
00:47:56
Plant People
Wisteria is more of a vining.
00:47:56
Alexis
so Yeah, it's a vine.
00:47:57
Jessica
um
00:47:57
Plant People
Yeah.
00:47:58
Alexis
um Well, ah if it's the Asian wisteria, which is the most pretty one, you should chop it any and every time because it is so aggressive.
00:48:03
Plant People
I have to look up. Yeah.
00:48:10
Alexis
It's actually, and yeah it'll take care of everything.
00:48:11
Jessica
It will take over, yeah.
00:48:13
Alexis
So it's just kind of like prune it always. If it's the American native one, i think you would prune that after bloom.
00:48:24
Jessica
I would think so.
00:48:24
Alexis
But I'd have to look that up because it's an early bloomer.
00:48:24
Jessica
It prunes early enough.
00:48:27
Alexis
Yeah.
00:48:27
Jessica
Yeah.
00:48:27
Brett
Yeah, it's like a I think of it as June.
00:48:27
Alexis
yeah
00:48:29
Plant People
You know, we've had this conversation today and Brett's kind of wrapping us up here, but we've not mentioned the number one rule and number one pet peeve of pruning.
00:48:30
Alexis
Yeah.
00:48:39
Plant People
Nobody's mentioned that today. I'm shocked.
Conclusion and Cautions on Tree Topping
00:48:42
Alexis
Oh, what? Topping?
00:48:43
Plant People
Yes.
00:48:43
Jessica
oh yeah.
00:48:44
Plant People
Thank you.
00:48:44
Jessica
Yeah.
00:48:44
Plant People
Yeah.
00:48:45
Alexis
Well, we kind of hit it with we kind of hit it with the head trimmers, but yeah.
00:48:45
Plant People
We have not even gotten um
00:48:47
Brett
I think of that as more of like ah like a war crime than ah
00:48:50
Plant People
it. True, Brad. That's fair.
00:48:52
Jessica
Yeah, I do.
00:48:52
Plant People
That's fair.
00:48:52
Alexis
Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:53
Jessica
it It makes me like I can't stand it. I can't stand when like my neighbors or other people top their trees and then they look terrible.
00:49:00
Plant People
And that's just the indiscriminately sharing.
00:49:01
Alexis
Ugh.
00:49:02
Plant People
Yeah. Yeah.
00:49:02
Alexis
They're just like little club trees with like little sprouts coming out the top.
00:49:04
Jessica
I'm just like, oh.
00:49:06
Alexis
When you see a poor red bud that's been, oh my gosh, it's so painful.
00:49:09
Jessica
and I just like don't like we preach it and preach it and preach it, but then there's still.
00:49:14
Alexis
Well, the a lot of the utility companies still do it too.
00:49:16
Jessica
companies still companies that still do it as part of their general practice like gigantic maple trees that are just having itty bitty sticks for their
00:49:18
Alexis
Yeah. So bad. Yeah.
00:49:22
Plant People
and yeah
00:49:24
Brett
Oh,
00:49:24
Alexis
Yeah.
00:49:24
Brett
ah
00:49:25
Alexis
Ugh.
00:49:26
Plant People
So a couple of, yeah, a couple of things are happening in there. Yeah. Maples are going to send out new growth because they've sent, remember they sent that signal that something terrible is happening to me.
00:49:31
Jessica
they're they're dying
00:49:34
Plant People
So they send out a lot of soft, rapid growth. That's going to get a lot of wind damage, a lot of sun scald. And you're ignoring that rule we talked about earlier, which is always pruned to a living point, which is a bud or back to a bigger trunk.
00:49:47
Alexis
Yeah. You're basically using a giant hedge trimmer when you top things like.
00:49:51
Jessica
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:49:51
Plant People
Yeah, it's indiscriminate.
00:49:51
Brett
Yet again, yet again, you need to have a license in order to even have those.
00:49:55
Plant People
Thank you, Brett.
00:49:56
Alexis
These people have license.
00:49:56
Plant People
Thank you.
00:49:57
Alexis
Well, and they don't arborist license usually.
00:49:57
Plant People
Thank you.
00:49:57
Brett
Yeah. Some of them do.
00:49:58
Jessica
um yeah
00:50:00
Plant People
So I like the pruning discussion.
00:50:00
Brett
Some of them just have a chainsaw.
00:50:01
Alexis
um
00:50:02
Plant People
like pruning discussion.
00:50:02
Alexis
Ray, can you ah put a link? We have a great pub on like why not to and how to get a not top your trees. If you'll put a link to that in the show notes and then.
00:50:13
Plant People
Sure.
00:50:13
Brett
And so so topping your trees in case anyone doesn't exactly like Alexis said, it's like coming and just cutting the top, like taking a spot on the tree and just cutting everything above that spot on all the branches off.
00:50:16
Alexis
Yes. Sorry. I cut him off.
00:50:20
Plant People
Indiscriminate.
00:50:23
Alexis
Yeah.
00:50:24
Jessica
And.
00:50:26
Alexis
Right.
00:50:26
Plant People
And you have a tremendous amount of dead snags because since you're not pruning to living points intentionally, it's going to die back to a living point.
00:50:26
Alexis
Nope.
00:50:35
Plant People
I mean, or worse.
00:50:35
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:50:35
Brett
Yeah.
00:50:36
Jessica
and
00:50:36
Plant People
So lots of dead.
00:50:36
Brett
And there are things you can, if you're, if it's too tall or it's too big, you can actually like, you can thin the leaders.
00:50:37
Plant People
Yeah.
00:50:41
Brett
You can do these other things that are much more.
00:50:42
Plant People
Heading back and thinning cuts.
00:50:43
Brett
Yeah.
00:50:43
Plant People
Yeah.
00:50:44
Jessica
Unfortunately, in my experience, that a lot of people are get worried about trees being, like you said, too big and scared.
00:50:45
Brett
Yeah.
00:50:51
Jessica
then And that's a better price when they hire certain companies to get them topped.
00:50:54
Brett
Totally.
00:50:55
Alexis
the
00:50:56
Plant People
Yeah.
00:50:57
Jessica
But in the long run, that tree is probably going to become it's going to be more dangerous than it was.
00:50:59
Alexis
Yeah.
00:51:02
Plant People
Yeah.
00:51:02
Alexis
Yeah. It's going to be ugly or it's going to die and you're not going to want it anymore.
00:51:03
Brett
Totally.
00:51:04
Jessica
it it's go to You're going to have ah more issues with that tree.
00:51:06
Brett
Probably both.
00:51:07
Alexis
Probably both.
00:51:10
Plant People
Yeah.
00:51:10
Jessica
By thinking that you're doing something good and making it safer when you're actually doing adverse.
00:51:10
Alexis
Yeah.
00:51:14
Plant People
And you've, yeah.
00:51:14
Alexis
So really you're going to pay for them to come out twice within probably a 10 year period.
00:51:17
Jessica
Yep. Yep.
00:51:19
Brett
And maybe once to pull it off your house.
00:51:21
Plant People
And that's a tough that's a tough discussion.
00:51:21
Alexis
And yeah.
00:51:21
Jessica
Yep.
00:51:23
Plant People
i know, you know, it it bothers all of us plant nerds, but that's a tough tough discussion when you're working with a homeowner and they love a tree, but it was the wrong tree for the wrong it was the ah tree for the wrong location.
00:51:33
Jessica
Right.
00:51:35
Plant People
And they're trying to make the best of a bad situation. But I feel like they're always just kicking the can down the road. They're deferring the problems. Another year when really once you top a tree, you have in every situation, you know, limited the useful life of that plant.
00:51:50
Plant People
You have reduced the life of that plant. You're just deferring the problems.
00:51:52
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
00:51:53
Brett
Yeah, as it's insane as it is, ah would rather you cut the tree down than do that to it if it's not in the right spot.
00:51:53
Alexis
Right.
00:51:57
Alexis
Yes. It's going to be cheaper.
00:51:59
Plant People
Yeah.
00:52:00
Alexis
Mm-hmm.
00:52:00
Plant People
And probably safer because as you guys mentioned, it it structurally is not good.
00:52:02
Brett
Yeah.
00:52:04
Plant People
So there's a lot of reasons not to do that. But I was impressed with us today. We waited the whole episode and did not get on this tangent. So good on us.
00:52:12
Alexis
We just assume everybody listening to this knows how bad topping is. And we were like, we don't even need to say it.
00:52:17
Plant People
Yeah.
00:52:17
Alexis
um All right. Well, we have been in your ears long enough today. So we will ah get out of here. But we will put ah some links in the show notes that maybe will be helpful for you.
00:52:31
Alexis
Of course, drop us a line via email. Also in the show notes, you can follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcasts. ah also in the show notes. ah And, you know, if you've got questions, if you want to tell us about your favorite snack, maybe we should do something on our Instagram story about, you know, what is your favorite walking snack and have you tried artificial crab meat as a walking snack?
00:52:54
Jessica
What's the process?
00:52:54
Plant People
As a portable snack.
00:52:54
Alexis
Because...
00:52:55
Jessica
Like, is there a video of how they create that crap me
00:52:59
Plant People
There probably is.
00:53:00
Alexis
I...
00:53:00
Plant People
And you probably don't want to know.
00:53:01
Alexis
and Do you want to watch the video how they make chicken nuggets? No. So I don't want to watch the video
00:53:05
Jessica
Well, sure.
00:53:05
Plant People
Or Vienna sausages. I mean, I'm just saying.
00:53:06
Alexis
invitation card, right? Or the sausages. Yeah, exactly.
00:53:09
Plant People
No. No.
00:53:10
Alexis
All right. Well, I appreciate you guys. We appreciate you guys being here and not just me. And we hope that you will join us next time. Have a great one.