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Balancing the Future Ep. 6 - A Seat at the Table: Creating and establishing paths for Black business leaders with Guylaine Saint Juste
198 Plays3 months ago
Guylaine Saint Juste, President & CEO of the National Association of Black Accountants (NABA), joins Christopher Mitchell to discuss how DEI initiatives are changing (not always for the better) and the importance of having an organization to represent the voices of Black business leaders and create spaces for connecting, and learning. They also dig deeper into the "pipeline issue" amidst corporate layoffs and how to create, establish, and maintain a space at the table.
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Transcript
Introduction and Background
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello, everyone. My name is Christopher Mitchell. I am excited today. I'm truly excited that Guilin, St. Eust, has chosen us to spend a little bit of time with to share a few nuggets as it relates to diversity, equity, and inclusion. For those who don't know me, I am a 25-year professional from a compliance and governance perspective. I have my own firm.
00:00:34
Speaker
And I'm just, you know, I've met people in my career, great people like Ghislaine that have helped me in so many ways. So Ghislaine, welcome. And I know that I have missed something as it relates to your bio. I know you're phenomenal. and I know you're a financial leader or was a financial leader. I know that you are the president and CEO of NABBA, but there are things that I don't know about you. So please share with the audience what I've missed.
00:00:59
Speaker
So first of all, Chris, like I was saying to you before, I have to say no to 100 things to say yes to one. And you are a friend. You have been an advisor for me and with me for the past 40 months that I've had the true privilege and honor of leading this organization. And then you are our esteemed chapter leader in the Dallas market. So if I had to do a one yes,
00:01:26
Speaker
for this quarter or this month, I am so honored to be here with you. I know we always have fierce and robust conversation. I think our friendship is an exemplification through the months of, as you know former president Barack Obama said, we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable and to always find common ground, you and I. And so for that, I am so very grateful for this opportunity to have conversation. Thank you for describing me as phenomenal. I don't think of myself that way.
Wellness vs Inclusion Discussion
00:01:55
Speaker
I just think I am a leader who is concerned and committed to helping black business leaders hold this country to the ideal of its democracy and committed to building black wealth in this country. Because I think to the extent that we do that, we focus on energy.
00:02:21
Speaker
on building black wealth and understand that NABAA was born on the back of the social justice movement and that economic freedom and economic justice is a way to move our people forward in this country forward.
00:02:39
Speaker
that I want to to make sure that I play my part, my very small part, in helping to move this conversation forward. Awesome, awesome. Well, we're going to jump right into it. You are an executive leader. You have an incredible past. You've experienced quite a few things. okay And continue to experience them. So one thing that I'm thinking about, I'm thinking about diversity, equity, and inclusion and belonging. And I'm thinking about now the label of wellness.
00:03:08
Speaker
I mean, in my personal opinion, it means something different. But given your perspective and what you've seen, what does it mean to you when I say wellness versus direct adversity, equity and inclusion and belonging?
Social Justice and Epidemics
00:03:20
Speaker
Because I don't think they're the same. So we could not, you know, for all the ways in which we might disagree later in this podcast, let's just say that we agree. I think that at the core of it is a movement in this country that is deeply concerning.
00:03:37
Speaker
that we're using the very laws that us Black people forced to put into place to give us a voice in our space in this country, the right to vote, the right to start businesses, the right to work after we've earned our education, the right to build wealth, et cetera, and that now those very same laws are being applied around sameness.
00:04:02
Speaker
right we we we We sometimes don't give words and actions, they're due weight. So one of the ways I equate this idea of wellness with what actually I call justice, equity, diversity, inclusion, and belonging is the same way in which when the crack epidemic was ravaging the black communities, it was criminalized and people are still serving.
00:04:32
Speaker
Huge sentences for it. I don't know if you read, but Westmore does the importance of representation. Governor Westmore in and Maryland just put forth 175,000 pardons for people who are serving long sentences for marijuana possession.
00:04:52
Speaker
And then now we're confused, but you know, when now the opioid epidemic is ravaging different communities, we wanna make it about mental health. Drug use is drug use and there's too many data as to say that they are born out of trauma, it is a disease and they should all be met with the same level of compassion, empathy and accountability. And so for me, this idea of confusing wellness With the discourse in this country, I love Nelson Mandela's title of his book, The Long Walk to Freedom.
NABBA's Values and Challenges
00:05:28
Speaker
I think for me, we are continuing to want to erase a past that none of us are proud of and to replace it with a narrative that I think falls in the face of any spiritual principle, that in order for us to move forward in the spirit of Sankofa, we must look back to understand what happened
00:05:49
Speaker
agree to it, lean into it, repair, and then move forward together. And so I am deeply concerned about this sort of compilation of wellness into inclusion and belonging.
00:06:03
Speaker
You know, when I think about the shift when it comes to dollars, because there have been a lot of dollars spent for DEI over the past five years. And I think about an organization like NABBA and your need for that contribution. So when it changes, when there's a shift in mindset to overall wellness, does that dilute opportunity for you financially as an organization? How does that how does that affect your business? So quite frankly, Chris, I don't know.
00:06:32
Speaker
because Naba is also by our core values of all in. morality, intentionality, and service. We always knew that we were not for everybody, because we never looked at this as, oh, everybody cares, or everybody understands, et cetera. That's why we've always never talked about our customers and just our investors, but we've defined the market and those who are willing to invest in us and with us to solve big problems as our partners. And so I think our partners continue to be deeply committed to this work.
00:07:09
Speaker
And those that were never really in it, but were in it because, oh, everybody's doing it. you know We got to do something. you know You almost have to question or wonder how committed were they really in understanding the problems. And so for us, we're going to continue to talk about the issues. We're going to continue to represent the voice of Black business leaders in general. We never said this is the voice of everybody, but the voice of the Black business leader community that we seek to serve.
00:07:38
Speaker
and continue to and engage people to say, let's have conversations. Let's learn together. And if you understand what we're trying to do and the problems in the way that only black people understand black people's problems, and you really are committed to doing this, then invest in us. Because what I will tell you is that any one of our partners Deloitte, PwC, Accenture, CLA, like name them would tell you what the best return on investment in terms of the investment that they make and the impact that we're having. And if we could really mobilize the right resources, I think we could solve this problem in this generation.
00:08:15
Speaker
Great. A question that ah I know, I don't think we're divided on this one, but I think I have a different view when I think about pipeline and I think about things we can do to influence the pipeline. How much help do we need? and Okay, some would say, and I've had interviews and I said, you know, we don't need, but you don't need much help, but what is, what is a solution? I'm not saying the solution. What is a solution when we start, when we bring a pipeline and what does that mean for you?
00:08:44
Speaker
So Chris, I would tell you, I don't know that we have a pipeline issue. That's probably when you say, I don't think we're divided. I think we have different point of views. You and I are standing on different end of a spectrum. Because I absolutely believe, because of your story and my story, that there is a lot of really deeply talented people in this country that do not have the systems to engage and persist. And so we need to ask ourselves, what exactly are we solving for?
00:09:15
Speaker
Because when you look across, I don't know a field or profession who claims not to have a pipeline issue, there's a nursing shortage. they I mean, name them, right? There's a cybersecurity shortage, AI, which is the new dimension of like the future. It's what I call the third or fourth gen, you know, revolution, industrial revolution, depending on how you look at it.
00:09:35
Speaker
is gonna have deep shortages of skills. So we really need to understand what are we talking about? So like you, I'm looking at data that says we need 340,000 accountants and that unless we get there, capital markets are at risk. But then I also look at a lot of firms who have done a lot of layoffs.
00:09:55
Speaker
recently. And Mackenzie, I mean, again, Mackenzie, Corn Ferry, these are not my research. This is me consuming research of deeply experienced professionals, you know, that are putting stuff out. They're talking about Corn Ferry just published a research that says that for I don't like the term at all, but white color jobs, it's near recession. So, you know, we really have to ask ourselves, what are we doing? What are we solving for? And that's why NABBA decided to take a different slant.
The Role of Accounting in Black Wealth
00:10:24
Speaker
What we decided to look at is to say that there are some languages that are universal languages. Irrelevant of the words, they mean the same thing. Music is an example. Both you and I are lovers of music. Yes, sir. Right? Music sounds the same to each of us in any country in the world, whatever the color of our skin, culture, et cetera. So if I put in front of you a sheet of music and you can read music, or anybody else, I can guarantee you the sounds will sound the same.
00:10:55
Speaker
Math is a universal language. So I also think that accounting is a universal language. It is the language of money. It is the language of business. It is the language of wealth. And if we seek to equate the scales a little bit in this country, by having a role to play in closing the black wealth gap in this country,
00:11:16
Speaker
I think we should inspire every black business leader to study this language, whether as a set of skills or knowledge or competencies that lead to a career and a profession in this dynamic field, which by the way, has proven to move more black business leaders from literally poverty, not to deliverable wages, but to really middle to upper middle class than anything else in this country.
00:11:45
Speaker
and around the world, right? So the promises there are immense, or to just learn it. Because when we talk about the tenants of wealth on education, earnings, and our partnership, enterprise, and equity, equity in the sense of owning stuff that appreciate over time, those are the tenants, how NABBA defines the tenant of wealth. If you don't understand that language, you're always going to be at the edge of it.
00:12:12
Speaker
And so we decided to, i that's why we decided to frame the word black. business leaders in that order of who we serve because we are after making sure that everybody falls in love with the learning of that language. Because as you know, I'm not an accountant. I spent 28 years in financial services because though I'm not an accountant, I want to say that I understand this language and I've been able to make it work for me, for my family, for my community, for my career, and hopefully now a displace of my life.
00:12:46
Speaker
for this organization that I am so tremendously humbled and honored to lead.
Principles and Opportunities
00:12:51
Speaker
You referenced layoffs and black professionals. this profession and I think about what some of the firms are doing and I'm just being as transparent as possible, sometimes we're in the numbers, more so than others are in the numbers. How do you feel about that? when you Knowing what you're trying to achieve, bringing folks in a profession, they're working their way up. You're lifting as you climb, meaning you're providing that network, you're providing that coaching and mentor and sponsorship.
00:13:36
Speaker
But yet, corporate comes along and says, well, no, I only need a certain percentage. And I'm talking business is business sometimes. It's just like that. How do you feel about that? I don't know that I feel about things anymore, Chris, to be honest with you, right? I mean, I own my feelings. I'm very attuned to my feelings. And when I feel things that I can't name, I stay with them until I understand what they're there to teach me. But in this place, I think we got to be smart. And we got to think about things.
00:14:06
Speaker
In this whole convention, this idea of flaw is also trying to say that we gotta play our games. We gotta to stay true to our principles and our values. The social justice movement anywhere in the world, those that have succeeded have one thread in common, non-retaliation.
00:14:34
Speaker
Look at Martin Luther King. Look at the freedom fighters. When we were sitting at the counters and they were throwing things, we did not fight back. And that's where the outrage of a nation met, a fight. On the street of South Africa, it was in the 1990s, your time and my time, we watched Nelson Mandela.
00:14:56
Speaker
before to accept the Nobel Peace Prize alongside the clerk who had jailed them for 26 years. He did not retaliate. So we really have to think about how do we behave, because I say there's an I in opportunity. There's an I in responsibility. There is an I in our you know in in in our accountability of how we show up. So what I am going to focus my energy on is to make sure that we live to the vision and the mission of NABBA, which is that we become
00:15:33
Speaker
the best version of ourselves at every point of the journey. Because what I know is that when we do that and we and then we build community around us, nobody cuts good talent out, period. And that I talked to many CEOs and key leaders and companies. You don't shed great talent.
00:16:01
Speaker
multifaceted talent, talent that shows that it can pivot into takes, you know, I think we need to talk about in this country, the difference between so talent, skills, and competencies. They're very different. And I don't think sometimes, you know, in good accounting firm, I just learned a term from my auditor, we bifurcate coming up.
00:16:21
Speaker
who, and i mean you know, y'all are still teaching me all the things, talk about, you know, best version of self at every point of the journey, right? We need to bifurcate them or maybe even trifurcate them if there's such a word to understand that. So where I want to spend my energy in my time is to make sure that our Black business leaders understand the game, understand our game,
00:16:48
Speaker
and then show up as best version of selves at every point of the journey, because ultimately, Chris, our friendship was born as a deep love to the God of this universe that has imparted a set of principles in us that he didn't ask us to negotiate with him.
Mentorship and Community Support
00:17:07
Speaker
He said, this is it this is it. And then as my good friend Shani Gray says to me, the correlation of if, then,
00:17:18
Speaker
If you do these things, then I will meet you 100x over. So I think where we need to focus our time is to understand those, do our if part without failing, and knowing that the then piece will be taken care of for us, and that truly the idea that when we do right, when we show up right, when we play our part,
00:17:43
Speaker
A door may close, but it will always be because the elevator actually opened up and rose up, rose us up, accelerated us, advanced us at a place that we couldn't even imagine. You know, a good friend of mine a while back said, is there enough room at the table? Meaning opportunity for us within corporate America, within this profession. And then she followed this up. These are her words. I'm not taking this by the way, because I know you guys will see this at some point in time.
00:18:14
Speaker
Is the table big enough? So when I say is the table big enough, what does that mean to you? Chris, I believe in a God that is so immense that through generations we've tried to make him fit into a very myopic view of ourselves. And yet every time I want to do this, I remind myself of the word that says your ways are not my ways.
00:18:43
Speaker
Know your thoughts, my thoughts. And that we understand that the universe is constantly recreating itself and therefore God is an expensive, creative force that always meets what we talk about the impossible. How dare I then think in a mindset of scarcity versus a mindset of abundance. I refuse to be cornered.
00:19:13
Speaker
in the table that I can see. I set my eyes on things above, not on things below. Because if our ancestors had said, it's too small, there's not enough room, et cetera, where would you and I be?
00:19:35
Speaker
Oh, so when I think I have two more questions, by the way, when I think about having a coach and a sponsor and a mentor and the confusion associated with that, because I don't often know what that means even today, because I'm getting support from all over the place.
00:19:53
Speaker
Is there an exact formula for success as we lift, as we climb? And when I look at that whole model, do we have enough people available, willing to participate and assist within our own community? Because I think sometimes We put the blinders on when we get to certain levels and full steam head to get what I want from the equation. Do we have enough participation? I absolutely believe yes. Okay. I absolutely believe yes. I would tell you, some of the people
00:20:28
Speaker
who have stepped up for me and shown up for me, looked nothing like me. Jenn Leary, Lara Abrash, Julie Bell Lindsay, Liz Berenson, Heather Maguire Leaf, Greg Gisler, Casey McClure. I mean, if I'm forgetting somebody, forgive me. Like, you know, all of these people who have shown up for me, not just with their words,
00:20:56
Speaker
but with their money and took investment and put it behind me before the proof points were there. We need to understand, you see, the thing that worries me is that in our community, we're making a lot of noise right now. And I want us to learn, but not just learn, but to acquire knowledge. For lack of knowledge, my people perish.
00:21:24
Speaker
the The freedom fighters were not only black people. It was a a conundrum of communities that came together to fight for justice. And I think that how we engage people though,
00:21:41
Speaker
is really important. How we define mentorship versus advocate versus for me where I am is another A. I need those buckets are sort of kind of like getting full for me. Some of these women that I just named are my accomplices. They're the people that I can call and say at any day or time,
00:22:09
Speaker
that will show up for me. Generally, we took a flight last night to be here for 24 hours to be there for me. She didn't have to. she And I'm sure when she hears this, she's gonna be petrified that I even talk about this, right? And I could talk about Lara that's like way across the world.
00:22:33
Speaker
shows up for us, right? And so I'm not trying to say that our community doesn't show up. That's not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to demystify to your question, the idea that there are a lot of people who want to do something.
Empowerment and Connection
00:22:46
Speaker
We need to show them. We need to avail ourselves to engage. And for me, the big piece too is, as you know, Chris, I'm somebody who practices gratitude. We take nothing for granted.
00:23:00
Speaker
But the idea that we continue to say, are there enough people? I'm available. You're available. But do people sometimes, you know, my good friend Fola, um Fola Shadi Abi Ola Benjak, who you know, who's our our leader in DC, are people have people done their work? Because you and I agree, somebody comes and wants us to do the work for them.
00:23:24
Speaker
That's not what you and I are about. We will coach people. absolutely We will teach. There's a difference. We will mentor. We will open doors. We will hold doors open. All of it is true. We will kneel and lean in.
00:23:41
Speaker
there's a difference. But if people are not willing to like hold a mirror and say, this one is on me, I need to do my work, like you did your work, like I do my work, I think we need to own that too. Awesome.
00:23:57
Speaker
So in wrapping this up, and I'm thinking about as ah as a leader, an influencer, a significant presence. you know Thank you for saying that. I don't even think about myself that way. Thank you for that. What's that takeaway? What's that one takeaway for that person just entering the walls of the conference today? That experienced person that's lost hope in corporate America and wants to walk away. What do you share with them?
00:24:27
Speaker
It is great to be black, bold, and beautiful. One, I deeply love for you. And I love my people. I think black is beautiful. And I want to remind us of our power. I want to remind us that our story is prophecy. And I want to remind us that our significance is the priesthood.
00:24:56
Speaker
We have an obligation to stay in this long march to freedom. But that Naba is the place where you come to connect, and reconnect, and refuel, and energize, and mobilize. But that we must never, ever, ever give up. We owe it to the spirit of our ancestors. Wow. Wow. I don't even know how to wrap this up, but I will say this.
00:25:25
Speaker
Thank you for being a wonderful human being. Thank you for loving all of us because I know you genuinely do i really care about everyone. So thank you for being a part of this. This means a lot for me. And thank you, Becker, for offering up a platform like this so we can share and be transparent. So that said, be on the lookout for the next conversation as we continue to share um and just open eyes as it relates to not only the profession, but where we're headed. When we say transformation, it means human, it means technology, it can mean a lot of different things. So be on alert for that. Thank you.