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Balancing the Future Ep. 7 - Invitation to Dance: An Agile Approach to Connecting and Keeping Top Talent with Bill Bradshaw
207 Plays2 months ago
Withum CDO, Bill Bradshaw, joins host Christopher Mitchell to focus on how accounting workplaces approach talent acquisition and company culture. Bill Bradshaw, a self-titled "recovering CPA"—discusses the need for boldness and agility in talent acquisition, engagement, and development strategies to hire the best people for the job and adjust to the rapidly changing needs of today's accounting professionals.
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Transcript
Introduction to Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
00:00:09
Speaker
I'd like to welcome everyone to another conversation. And today we have Bill Bradshaw, CDO with him. And we're going to have a really good conversation today about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And some things I want to know and some things that he wants to share. So I'm happy that you're able to tune in and and and be a part of this this very special, special conversation. So welcome, sir. I know you're all the folks that show up on this show are very influential in the community.
00:00:38
Speaker
so Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. Absolutely, Chris. So, ah you know, I thank you for that. But and I want to highlight that, you know, your service and your commitment, and your devotion, not only to this profession, but the run out what I consider really good cause and understanding and what is diversity, equity, inclusion, what should we call it? How is it transforming? You know, I think those topics are on the table for conversation today. ah So be free. I know you will be and transparent because that's what we're all about.
00:01:07
Speaker
So that said, what am I missing about you? What do I know that I need to know? ah Let
Supporting Underrepresented Talent
00:01:12
Speaker
me think. So I would love to just make reference that we are we are live here in Las Vegas at the obviously a NAVA conference, which I think is a testament to the work that we've been doing for many years in this space. So the National Association of Black Accountants and with has been a supporter for years. Most of the the firms that are in this space that are doing this work are here. So I feel privileged to be amongst the masses that are here and just acknowledge that. And I will tell you um something you ask that you might not know is when I come to opportunities like this to be with folks, specifically our underrepresented talent within the organizations.
00:01:48
Speaker
I feel connected i feel whole i feel validated right and you can look around the room and see the talent that is here and and that invigorates me to continue doing this work so super excited and personally i've been in this space for about twelve years twelve thirteen years and I have the great fortune to lead the function over it with them and have been in the professional service industry for quite some time.
Bill's Background and Nonprofit Work
00:02:11
Speaker
I call myself a recovering CPA because I was that at one point, right? That's when I started my career. But also personally, you know, I sit on a couple nonprofit boards, which are super passionate um initiatives for me. So I'm happy to sit on the board for Garden State Equality, which is the largest, one of the largest advocacy boards for LGBTQ community.
00:02:30
Speaker
LGBTQ community um in New Jersey and the HIV AIDS center board also in New Jersey. So I'd love to give back. I'm a humanitarian by heart. um I talk to SWRC. I think quite often sometimes when I get in this space, I get on my soapbox and people say, all right, Bill, go sit down for a minute. We're just trying to have dinner. We're not trying to save solve solve the world problems, but you know what? We're here to do all that at the same time. So I am happy to have the conversation. I'm excited. andm I'm ready.
00:02:55
Speaker
And I think it'll be fruitful. Fantastic, fantastic.
Evolution of DEI Focus
00:02:58
Speaker
My first question is when I think about diversity, e equity, and inclusion, and I think about the focus on it and what has happened, you know, five years ago, there was a different emphasis with George Floyd and some other things that happened, and where it is today. And we call it wellness, we call it whatever we need to call it because it's human capital, and that is business, I get it. How do you feel about that?
00:03:20
Speaker
So you know there's so many acronyms, right? You have DEI, you have IND, you have DNI, you have DIB, you have the A, the accessibility piece that's brought in there, you have belonging. So um I've always gone back to the notion that we lead with inclusion.
00:03:37
Speaker
and great So every single one of us that shows up to the room is unique, which makes us all diverse, right? And changing the mindset of folks to what diversity looks like in our organizations is
Fostering Inclusion and Equity
00:03:50
Speaker
pinnacle. How we are able to define what that is is very different for everybody, right? No one shows up in the same light. No one has the same lens. No one has the same lived experience. Each of us are unique, which makes each of us diverse.
00:04:03
Speaker
It doesn't have to fit into the box of gender, race, sexual orientation, you know nationality. It is individually to each of us. So we're always going to have a diverse group of individuals coming together. That's always going to happen, right? So when folks say to me, and you know what is your take on it? And I said, we always leave with inclusion. So I go back to the old age, Adam. It's not my not not my words. It's the words of many folks who have said this before. but you know diversity is being invited right we want you to come to our party and have a good time but if we don't ask you to dance you're standing against the wall so i think about the fifth grade ah age old Adam right everyone goes to the fifth grade dance and they all stand in the wall like what do we do now
00:04:44
Speaker
But the inclusion piece is when we say, hey, do you want to dance with me? So when we lead with that dance, we encourage all of our people at our organizations to show up and be authentic, to show up and do this and want to
Creating an Inclusive Culture
00:04:57
Speaker
do this. Right. And that yields that equity piece. Right. So I always say to to our teams and when I talk quite often is diversity is being invited. Inclusion is being asked to dance. So we invite you to dance.
00:05:10
Speaker
what right on the day one, start your dance. And then equity pieces, you pick the music. So if you want to dance at Waltz, if you want to dance the square dance, if you want to get down on the floor and do some you know break dance, whatever you want to do, do that. we'll We'll allow you to do that. But I think where we are now compared to where we were five years ago is really taking a deeper dive into how inclusion breeds employee experience, team member experience, and that piece to it. Because you can attract a ton of talent to your organization that you may think is diverse or underrepresented for your profession. However, if they don't feel that inclusion piece, if they don't feel that sense of belonging, if they don't feel like their voice matters,
00:06:00
Speaker
they walk out the door. So it doesn't matter how much time you spend, how much money you spend bringing those people into the organization. It is really understanding inclusive culture, really breeding inclusive culture and making sure that your leaders understand how to do that. So when I think about the the need for talent and the shortage of talent in this profession and how... do Because i think what you just mentioned inclusion and solving for that that need that drive how important is it though when i think about filling that void attracting those folks in the profession and moving forward and being successful within public accounting how important is it that we get it right as it relates to that i think.
00:06:39
Speaker
a couple
Reshaping the Talent Pipeline
00:06:40
Speaker
of things. We have to look at the talent pipeline different than we've had ever in the past. So as an accounting profession, right, in our world, we can't get students period to study accounting. So how do we change that, right? How do we make accounting sexy is really what the question is.
00:06:55
Speaker
um And I might not have the recipe, but I have some of the things that you put in the cake to make it work, right? So I think two things, you have to start at a younger age and you have to expose people to what accounting is. What is a CPA? It's not a number cruncher. It's not a pencil pusher.
00:07:13
Speaker
It is so many more things. And i had I've had a partner here at the firm say to me that the most dynamic piece of math I do a day is division. People are like, I have to be great at math to be an accountant. You don't. Excel and all the new and all the new systems that are in place do all of that for you. So I think it's important that.
00:07:31
Speaker
We look at what the talent pipeline is. We started a younger age. So a lot of programs that we've started to look at is how to get into high schools and start talking about financial literacy and what that looks like. How do we then maybe even start to approach the community college folks, right? We look at the different areas where students might be studying these these different disciplines.
Challenging Assumptions and Supporting Diversity
00:07:53
Speaker
And we also have to recognize that a lot of our underrepresented individuals within our organization need the ability to understand whether they're first generation college students um or they are, you know, they are going back to school for second career, they're their' latter they're they're later in their career, helping them navigate what it means to come to corporate America. So
00:08:19
Speaker
I think starting younger and really getting that exposure to our pipeline and then also asking the questions of what can we do for you? and There's so many times that we make assumptions based upon people that, oh, they're right out of university. I had a absolutely fantastic conversation with a student that we were that we were heavily recruiting. um She ended up going to the finance direction, so she did not come to an accounting firm. I just ran into her yesterday um at at the conference, and I had no idea her lived experience, but I had a perception of what I thought. And she said, Bill, I celebrated my birthday yesterday. I was like, oh, great. You know, it's always great to be in your 20s. And she looked at me and was like,
00:09:02
Speaker
I'm in my 40s. But that was my bias and my assumption that you came out of college and I thought you were in your 20s. So what that lived experience is always different for everybody. And I would think what we need to focus on from a talent perspective is asking people what they want and what we can do to support them. The most difficult thing for organizations to do is really just ask the question because they they they're afraid to ask the question. But here's the thing is we can't support you. You will not feel like we are engaged in your development and your advancement at our organization unless we say, what can I do for you? You know, when I think about
00:09:41
Speaker
stuff that's being tossed about transformation. We're transforming all over the place. And I think about what that means for inclusion, diversity, however you want to shape it. What does a strategy look like? Because if I were to think about five things, I'm a five thing kind of person.
Five Pillars of DEI Strategy
00:09:57
Speaker
What are those five things? so When we're thinking about transformation, yeah inclusion, diversity, what does that look like?
00:10:04
Speaker
Because we've got AI in the mix, don't put AI in it, because that would make it way too complicated. I know, you're like, how do I do this? And it just spits out an answer, right? I would say, so number one is our data, right? I think data and transparency of your data is probably the pinnacle piece of the five.
00:10:26
Speaker
We are so afraid as organizations to say, here's our numbers, and this is what it looks like. But there's two things that that creates. Number one, it creates trust within your own organization for your own team members or your employees, right? People then say, okay, now i know we now I know what we look like. And for outside folks, it allows us to for our clients it allows our clients to say, hey, we know where we are and we have a path to get to where you'd like to be, right? I'm going to tell you no organization that I know of's numbers look where they want them to be.
00:10:57
Speaker
So I think that number one piece is being transparent with your data is the first piece. I think the second piece is teaching your leaders to be good people leaders, not just great at the industry. So quite often I see folks rise to the top and they may be an office managing partner or a national managing partner. And the first question I always ask them is, have you ever managed people besides your industry folks? And they look at me and they're like, what?
00:11:23
Speaker
I said, have you ever had a conversation with someone about people matters? Bill, what do you mean? have you How many people have you mentored?
Ongoing DEI Education
00:11:33
Speaker
Well, I mentor tons of people in my career. Have you ever talked to them about people matters? So helping our leaders be better people leaders, because we fall short because we put people in roles that they have to do those pieces, but we don't we don't level them up. we don't We don't give them that training or that guidance. So I'd say really the transformation is looking at our industry leaders and helping them transform them into great people leaders. I would say the third piece is education.
00:12:01
Speaker
educating our people around topics, right? Folks think, okay, I took an unconscious bias course. I know everything about DNI. Nope. It's not how it works. Consistent, constant conversations around diversity, around inclusion, around equity, around belonging, around accessibility.
00:12:21
Speaker
Really understanding what those pieces are. I would say that to me is pinnacle and You know giving them a playbook, right? So here's the definitions. This is how we define these words at our organization This is how we say how we speak the language that we speak um and and really Consistently bringing in opportunities to for folks to be refreshed because I think what happens and I know what happens is They take the one and done And they think they're good. And I won't hear from them until three years later when there's an issue, right? Oh, I got someone on my team, or I said this, or but I took the course.
00:12:57
Speaker
Right, but it's our jobs as practitioners and leaders in this space to consistently educate our folks on what is happening outside the four walls and how that comes into the four walls of where we physically or virtually work. um The fourth piece i i four fourth piece I would say is think outside the box, right? So we always think about this is how everyone else is doing it, but think of how you can do it differently.
Encouraging Bravery in DEI Conversations
00:13:24
Speaker
And when I say that, I mean,
00:13:27
Speaker
what, throw 10 things against the wall, if one sticks, great, right? We know what works because we we see what our competitors do, we look at what what the folks are doing in the industry, but maybe we try something different. And what I can think about that is, recently with them, we did a cohort last year, a pilot program where we brought staff in, what we call the associate staff,
00:13:52
Speaker
And while we have tuition reimbursement at our firm, we did this a little different. We we did took six students with ah with a university here in New Jersey, um even though we're in Las Vegas, I said here in New Jersey. um And we we paid for those folks to get their additional credits to the 150 to get certified, right?
00:14:11
Speaker
But that was a new thing. So there's opportunities for folks to do it once they get here, but they have to put that out of pocket first. This was a flip script. This was, we're gonna bring you in as associate staff, right? So you're not technically staff one yet. You have the education of a four-year degree. we'd like We're going to put you through another year of schooling that we are going to upfront pay that cost.
00:14:32
Speaker
And let's try that out. All six of those students are still here. They're thriving. And you know what? They didn't have the ability to say, hey, i yeah, I need to go back and get those credits because I need to be certified. But they we flipped the sc script. So think of ways to do things differently and from a transformation phase. And the last thing I'll say on my like i my five my fifth one is be brave. Just be brave. Show up. Use your voice.
00:14:59
Speaker
People are so afraid to have conversations that are uncomfortable. I live in the uncomfortable space. We live in this space. Nothing is comfortable. No conversation is comfortable that I have. But be the voice, be brave. um I spend so much time talking to our leaders and our people about don't be quiet on issues, right? And coaching and mentoring. So when I say be brave, I think be a sponsor, be a mentor, raise your hand, ask for an opportunity. If you know nothing about it, you'll learn.
00:15:33
Speaker
um And i think i've seen some i've i've seen so many people transform as leaders i see the folks are cold word that we have here from with them i watch them grow every year when they come here and i watch them developing. We brought we brought a ah senior your associate last year just got promoted the shirt as supervisor and um i watched her work the room.
00:15:56
Speaker
because someone gave her an opportunity. So be brave, be bold, use your voice that you think might not be like anybody else's, someone's got to say it. Wow. Wow. You know, when I think about, and I want to take way into this, when I think about professional services and I think about org structure and I think about a partnership versus industry. Yeah.
00:16:22
Speaker
And I was a chief diversity officer within a partnership framework and industry. I think when you have a group of partners that are making decisions for the firm, and it could be a smaller group that really have equity that are heard differently,
00:16:42
Speaker
When I say that, what comes to mind when I say a professional services partner structure versus, you know, I think it's a, how can I put it and it may not be and I could be wrong industry and how that framework work. What do you think of?
DEI in Partnerships vs. Corporate Boards
00:16:56
Speaker
Because I think one's easier than the other and I'm probably wrong in that assumption.
00:17:00
Speaker
So it's interesting, I think, ah you know, I have a little bit of a bias that shows up here because I've worked in a partnership for so long, right? So I've kind of navigated what that looks like. so and And I've also worked in an organization that had a board of directors and it was very different, right? So I think here, there's an elephant in the room that we're gonna talk about, right? Like professional services,
00:17:24
Speaker
is cisgender and straight white men. That's what it is. All of our organizations, right? If you look at the partnership co cohort from the big four all the way to down to the you know one number 150 plus, a majority of the people that have risen to the top, to the equity partner level, are cisgender white men.
00:17:43
Speaker
So how do we change the landscape, right? So their lived experience is not not it's not their fault. It's how they've lived. It's what experiences that they have been given. So in a partnership, I think that, and I know that, we have to help them understand, meet them where they're at and bring experiences to them to say, pause,
00:18:10
Speaker
And then sometimes I say ouch and educate. i Ouch, because you said this, or you thought this, or you maybe said it to me, but don't repeat it. And educate what that looks like. So again, organizations like ours, you know, tapping the scales around 2,800 team members in the US, you know, 200 plus public partners.
00:18:32
Speaker
they their lived experiences are that of their own. And it is our job as practitioners to educate and aware of those, makes those folks aware. I think in industry, if you look at you know like board of directors that's governing an organization, I would say you know ah publicly traded organizations like that, you also have the exterior focus of, hey, I'm investing in your organization,
00:19:01
Speaker
So the the lens of diversity looks a little different, right? So let's just use, I'm looking over there, let's look let's use M&Ms, right? If you're the CEO for Hershey or Mars or whoever owns M&Ms, individuals own part of that company, right? In professional services, the people that work there own the organization. So it's a different focus. It's a more intimate focus. I think we have an opportunity as partnerships to shape how this is done a little bit easier. I think and we also have the ability to directly talk to an owner, right? we don't You don't have that opportunity at a Mars or an M&M or Hershey. you don't You don't have that because they're shareholders. So you don't even know where they are, right? I mean, they're all over the country. They could be out of the country. They could be anywhere. But the board governs that. So I think we we have to shift the focus um to kind of remind our partners that
00:20:00
Speaker
we as people that are leading functions like this kind of are your board. We are the we are the the the reminders of, hey, let's let's do it this way, let's try this out, let's do it do a little different. And I'm not gonna say it's easy, and I'm not gonna say it's easy, but depending on the size, because you know my former career was at a big four, and we just had more people, but it was the same structure. So what I think folks need to understand is,
00:20:29
Speaker
take the privilege that you have by having an opportunity to talk to an owner and see what you can do to help develop them. Okay. Great, great. So when I think about inclusion, and I think about goals that we set as an industry, and I think about organizations that come alongside and help us be successful in meeting certain people goals, yeah whether it's black, whether it's Latino, whether it's LGBTQ, whether it's Asian, what whatever it is. yeah Is one more important, than any other?
Intersection of Identities in DEI
00:21:01
Speaker
I think that the intersex of the identities are are where we're at. so
00:21:08
Speaker
You know, ah and just being in the space of NABAA, right? we're We're here at the National Association of Black Accountants. You look around the room, you see generational difference. You see gender difference. You you might not see LGBTQ difference because it doesn't wear it on its sleeve, but when you have conversations with folks and they share that and that intimacy, you might see a veteran status. You might see folks that are navigating some sort of physical disability or non-apparent disability.
00:21:34
Speaker
I think what we need to what we really, really need to focus and I know what we we focus on it with them is our intersections of our identities. And does one hold a higher power than the other? I would say no. I think what we i think and I know what we need to get away from is looking at diversity and saying diversity is about race.
00:21:59
Speaker
And we have to stop saying we need to hire more black people in our organization because that is not what diversity is, right? Diversity is making an um giving an opportunity for every unique individual to come to our organization who's going to bring their best self, bring their authentic self, and they are the right person for the job.
00:22:21
Speaker
And here with my soapbox, I told you earlier, I got my soapbox. you know I had those conversations about diversity recruiting. I am not a fan of someone saying, you need to be a diversity recruiter. Because if you're putting a number on me and telling me I need to go out and hire X amount of people, that's never going to work. And we do not do that here with them. We hire the best people for the job.
00:22:42
Speaker
We make sure our recruiters have an inclusive lens to them. We make sure that art my team is is involved with organizations and schools and all of the things that you can wear, the places where you're going to find those put vote those folks. And again, you come to NABBA, you think, hey, i'm this is where all the Black accountants are, but they're also not here. They're also at places that they they they can't be, right? So it's thinking about that differently. What I'll also say is,
00:23:07
Speaker
it's It's still interesting if you look at the statistics, um the gender difference in our profession. So most organizations will report, most firms will report, you know, they're about 50-50 gender split. That's great. Organically, if you look at holistically, but as you get to that partner level, let's dive deep. Let's pull back that onion and tell me what your partner consistency looks like. And then when you if you could tell me it's 50-50. Exactly, exactly. And if you could tell me it's 50-50,
00:23:35
Speaker
kudos, let me know how you got there, because that is what we strive for. That is the special sauce, right? um So I think in 2024 that we still have to have the conversation about gender diversity is sad. And it's not going away. And I think sometimes to your question, we put race, ethnicity above gender, but let's let let's just boil it down in the water, right? Like, where do we swear do we start? Like, how does it start?
Inclusion of Neurodiverse Individuals
00:24:08
Speaker
um and you know the for And I'll say the forgotten fruit of the diversity bunch is our folks with disabilities. And we have seen so many people
00:24:22
Speaker
identify after following COVID and work from home and will return to work and what the strategies are with non-apparent disabilities. And they show up and everyone's like, we don't have they they don't have a disability, they're fine, they can come to work. And I'm like, but they do, they suffer quietly. And and the last point I'll put there is,
00:24:45
Speaker
we all need to double down on our neurodiverse individuals because that is, we are seeing more of our younger generations identifying as neurodiverse and organizations like professional service firms, like we don't have to we don't we we don't know what to do with that or we don't have jobs for them because they need to be CPAs. You know what we do? We have tons of repetitive work. We do tons of repetitive work at professional service firms, tons of it that anybody can do, right? So think about those opportunities that you have where you can bring those neurodiverse into the fold.
00:25:16
Speaker
So another thing, that and this is coming from me, and I'm going to put this out there, because when I think about professional services and I think about age and how important it is that you join a firm between a certain age, yeah and you mature at a senior yeah at a certain age, and you become a senior manager or a manager at a certain age,
00:25:37
Speaker
and you age out. yeah So I don't hear a lot about ageism because I think it's a challenge. Given the fact that we need resources to be successful, but we also disqualify people. In my opinion, we disqualify certain folks because they may not fit yeah within a certain bracket. Yeah, I think the runway piece, that's my, I call it the runway conversation. Like what's the runway, right? Like where's your runway? What does it look like? How are you gonna get there?
00:26:03
Speaker
um So have two I have two schools of thought on that. One is ask the question, right? Don't assume that, and we do this all the time, don't assume we, meaning me, everyone, humans, not with them. Don't assume that ah you know a woman that comes to the organization wants to have children.
00:26:26
Speaker
Don't assume that you you there you don't want to promote them to manager or senior manager because they might be of childbearing age, right? Number one, they might not want children. Number two, they might not be able to have children. Number three, they might not be in a relationship or want to be in a relationship where they want to have children. And number four, maybe they have a spouse, partner, significant other, that's going to take care of the child at home. So you don't know any of those questions until you have the conversation with somebody. So that's my first piece is we make assumptions based upon people's age.
00:26:56
Speaker
And where they're on their life cycle and where they are. What we think they should be doing based upon what the majority has done and i can tell you if you do that you fall short number two is.
00:27:11
Speaker
I'll say this and it's Bill Bradshaw thought, it's not a rhythm thought, I'm just gonna tell you that right now. It is, I am surprised that as professional service firms, we have not seen more age discrimination issues because of the fact that we retire out our partners at an age, right?
00:27:31
Speaker
What I will say that Wythem does, which I think is fabulous, is our age bracket is a little different than the big four, right? So the big four, it's typically 60. We age them out. So if you're not getting partner, if you don't make partner by your latter 40s, your runway's too short, you're not making equity partner because you're just not going to do it.
00:27:52
Speaker
What's the nice piece about the you know larger mid-sized firms is that we'll bring those partners over right after they've aged out because they have a lot of experience. We'll bring them in, they can work a few more years, and then we also keep them on as America status. so There's an opportunity for folks to stay on and work at our organization um with their with their great fortune. so You know, it's kind of a double edged sword. You need the experience of those folks because they have such a longevity and understanding of tax and audit and advisory work that they do, but agreeing that what is the runway? Asking the questions. Do you want to make partner?
00:28:36
Speaker
We have people that have been at the firm 25 years that are managers senior managers or principals because that's what they wanted to do. So it's not always up or out. When I was raised in the firm, when I came out of university many moons ago, it was ah you moved up or out. So I think we have to look at the how the workforce works. I think we also have to look back at the fact that we work differently now.
00:29:01
Speaker
No one ever thought that we would be 100% remote. No one ever thought that. They thought you can't do that work. You're not gonna continue to grow your business. You're not gonna continue to have clients. all that All of that didn't happen. We actually got busier during COVID. So thinking about what that looks like, and I think that has also changed the age game for us a little bit with the ability for us to look at what our demographics of our workforce look like from an age perspective.
Impact of Political Shifts on DEI
00:29:28
Speaker
So when I when i tune in and I turn on the idiot box, and that's just my reference to it, okay and I think about politics, and I think about government, and I think about inclusion, diversity, however you want to label it, it seems like there's a shift. I mean, what does that mean? Are we really paying attention? Because I know we get our cues from the political system. Right.
00:29:52
Speaker
right Is it really affecting us like that? Because I see i see some companies, I won't name them, yeah change their whole philosophy as it relates to D&I based on what they see the government doing. How do you feel about that? I think we have to always keep a wide eye on what's going on around us is what I'll say. If you are true to your team members and you actually Believe in this work, breathe this work, and know the ah ROI behind this work. You will not waver from your commitment. What I will tell you is,
00:30:30
Speaker
We look at external sources to see what we might have to do next. So just for instance, if if if tomorrow they told us diversity training is illegal, we're still gonna do diversity training at our organization because we don't have we can do what we want to do, right? We are allowed to do that. And that's a commitment from our leader, from our CEO all the way down to our intern that is here. We are committed to that work. What I will say is,
00:31:01
Speaker
I will also start thinking about how that's going to affect some of the individuals that may work at an organization that says, well, the government has said, I don't have to do this. And I'm going to go back to the code of conduct that you signed and why you came here. And I'm going to say, here's all of our, you know, our 10 tenants at with them that you signed onto and the with them way. And we are one with them and how we work. And you signed all those. And part of that is we respect each other.
00:31:33
Speaker
We develop each other. We believe in each other. And we're going to continue to do that all the time to make sure that you are a well-rounded individual without our in our organization. And if you don't want to do that, then then you know what? Maybe there's the door. And it's those hard conversations that you have. And I will tell you, this has happened a few times in our organization. i remember My prior firm, it was right around the time of, um you know, the SCOTUS rulings and the attack on the LGBTQ community and the Equality Bill and the quality the the Equality Act that was out there and the amicus brief and signing that brief and what should we do? Should we sign the brief? Should we not sign the brief? um And, you know, you have to mitt you have to draw a line in the stand at some point. And even though you're a federal contractor, you know, you're saying we are still going to
00:32:18
Speaker
you don't treat our LGBTQ employees with all the same rights that we treat the rest of our employees with and we you know they cannot cannot be fired because they are out of the closet or whatever whatever that the outlandish code of whatever they were trying to put into place was.
00:32:33
Speaker
And again, you have to have those policies tied back to what is your credo? What is your mission? What is your statement? What are you tying it back to? And that's what your employees signed up to do. And if they are not going to do that because they think they don't have to do it, then maybe they're not they're not the right place.
00:32:52
Speaker
you know, approach that I use when I was talking or highlighting diversity, equity and inclusion four years ago. And I was talking to a partner group, be mindful of this. And I was talking business.
00:33:07
Speaker
the business of accounting and diversity and helping them understand what the ah ROI is.
ROI and Sharing DEI Success
00:33:12
Speaker
Is that a good approach, bad approach? Is it necessary to understand the business side of it? Because I think DE and I, inclusion, whatever you want to label it, it's good for business. Do you share that the same way or do you share it at all with your- Yeah, so I think two things. You have to know your audience. So you our audience, when we're talking to them, our equity partners,
00:33:35
Speaker
who run a P and&L. So if you're a goal if if you want to get buy-in and you want folks to understand the true value of the business case of diversity, equity, inclusion, inclusion, belonging, accessibility, whatever you want to call it, bring them the dollars and cents, right? Help them understand that if I'm so if i'm here with 10 of my colleagues at NABBA,
00:33:58
Speaker
What am I bringing back? I'm building our brand. I'm looking at potential talent. I am making connections with other organizations. I'm watching what other organizations just are doing so we can say, can we do that? You're allowing folks to get professional development. I can name 10 things that is the value of bringing folks to organizations, conferences, et cetera. right That's just one piece of our business.
00:34:22
Speaker
so When I, it's interesting, when i when I do my budgets and who doesn't love a budget? No one said no one. You know, you I actually split them out in categories of marketing,
00:34:36
Speaker
talent acquisition, learning and development, brand building. So when I say to someone, I need X amount of dollars for our ERGs, here's how it's going to affect every line item within your organization. So if you want to take a survey, if you want to you know be part of the DEI or the CEI or Sarah Mount's working mother or working dad, if you want to do any of those things, all that costs money. But what it also does is it allows you to brand yourself. It allows you to, you know, bring in talent. It allows you to folks to start understanding that your name is synonymous with inclusion or diversity or equity or belonging, whatever you want to call it. So
00:35:22
Speaker
The business case is always a struggle. I will tell you, um ah ROI is a three-letter word to me, which sometimes comes a four-letter word, because I get angry with, okay, why do I have to constantly bring the ah ROI back? Like, you can't put an ah ROI on building brand. You can't put an ROI on and sitting in a room and having a conversation like this with you, which, who knows where this might lead to, and who knows who might listen to this conversation and say, wait, with them, with them, who's, but okay, they're an accounting firm. Maybe I need an accounting firm to help me do this in my business. All of the things that we do,
00:35:53
Speaker
You can't always put dollars and cents on, but what you can do is break it out by those segments and show the value of this is what we've done. This is what our changes are. And I will tell you that one of the things that we do as diversity leaders, and I'm sure you know this, we don't give ourselves enough credit on the wins that we've gotten.
00:36:13
Speaker
we say we can always do better, right? And then you talk to your colleagues and you're like, wait, you didn't do this, you didn't do that, you didn't get that. you And you're like, wow, I guess I am a little, doing a little things a little different or a little better. But what I'll tell you is, um and it's something that that I've done and with my peer group is I sit with my peer group every month, we have a meeting um and we just talk about life.
00:36:38
Speaker
How do you do this work? How do you do this work professional service for them? What are y'all doing? Like there's four or five of us that are here at this conference. You know, we all connected over, you know, a drink just to have a conversation about like, okay, we do a lot of virtual meetups, but like, how's it going for you? What's your talent pipeline? Is it slow? Is today slow? are you Those are the things that also bring and breed ah ROI. I have said this since I've gotten into this work. This is not a competition. Diversity is not a competition.
00:37:08
Speaker
It is how can we make the experience better for every underrepresented person that comes into our profession. And if you're doing something and it's working, I'm going to take what you did, make it with them, and to keep doing it because it works. And if i took if I'm doing something, please take it and do what you're doing in an organization because that is the way that we all win. This is not about individual wins. This is not about what is your firm doing better than our firm. This is how do we make the experience better for the person who is, hey, I want to be a CPA.
00:37:43
Speaker
That's what we want for everybody. And that's how we create the pipeline. We allow folks to say, you know what? This is a great profession. This is a great career. And I'm going to choose this firm because they get it. So Bill, there's a question I didn't ask. And I know that you probably have an answer for something. I always have an answer. I don't know if it's right, but it's a whole other thing. And what I'm worried I'm going with is, is there something you want to share with this audience?
00:38:09
Speaker
that you think would help leaders within DEI, leaders within firms, that one takeaway that will hit home for them to get them started, to elevate their game as it relates to trying to solve or aid in this process? Yeah, I would say be bold. Ask the question. Do not think silence is the answer.
00:38:37
Speaker
So quite often folks will say, well, I was afraid of, well, you know what? If you get it wrong, your fear of getting it wrong is actually worse than actually getting it wrong. So when George Floyd was murdered, I remember I was, we did a town hall, my former firm, got everybody on the line. Like, I mean, tens of thousands of people on the line, right?
00:39:06
Speaker
It was the same day. We didn't have a script. We didn't have time to so to to debrief the CEO, the COO. It was, get on there, hear some talking points, and say say from you speak from your heart. So there isn't a script to follow. You have to feel out your organization. You have to understand what that looks like. You have to understand how that feels. Do not, what I would say to leaders is, do not be quiet on any issue. Do not think someone else is going to do it.
00:39:36
Speaker
and realize that what happens outside of these four walls is always going to come into your organization. You have no other opportunity but to act. Act now, act timely, talk to people. Really dive deep into the employee voice. If you ask them, meaning your employees or team members,
00:40:04
Speaker
What's good about your organization? What's bad about your organization? What would you change? And they give you feedback, do it. And that to me is the win. Like that means I listened, I heard, you told me this was not good, they told me this was better, do it. What leaders need to also understand I would say is,
00:40:21
Speaker
This isn't going away. So y'all can think it's gonna go away. It might it might it might you know go sit in the corner for five minutes, but it's not going away. So we might do things differently. And I can tell you as a firm, we've always led with inclusion. um We had a very strong focus at one point on the recruitment and attraction of talent. Now we're leaning very heavy on the retention of that talent, right? So you have to pivot. I think for leaders, be agile.
00:40:50
Speaker
be able to pull your levels, pull your levers and move your levels at any given point based upon what's happening. So if you see folks are staying and and and that it's working, start developing them, start getting them promoted, start making sure they have the professional development. If you see people walking out the door, why are they walking out the door? Look at why why they're leaving. If you can't get people in, why aren't they coming in? What's the problem? So be agile to do that.
00:41:14
Speaker
And I will leave off this conversation. And Karlyn Wonga, who's a great person in this work, I don't know if you know Karlyn, she's now over at SNCEO. She was at Target for many years. And I use her quote all the time and I and i give her credit because it it resonates with me. And I tell folks all the time, show up and be who you are, where you are.
00:41:39
Speaker
Don't change the who, change the where. So if you cannot be who you are, where you are, good luck to the organization, because you're gonna walk right out the door. If you can show up, be authentic, be your full self every day, you're not gonna have an issue, because your organization embraces that, right? If organizations can't embrace who you are, those who's are walking right out the door. So who you are, where you are, and never change that who, change the where. Because if if you cannot do that at the organization you're at now,
00:42:09
Speaker
It's never a win. It's not a win for you to stay. It's not a win for the organization to have you. Wow. Well, but Bill, thank you for your transparency. This has been absolutely fantastic.
00:42:20
Speaker
your Motivation, your drive, your difference as it relates to your strategy and inclusion first. I mean, I've heard something like that before, but not quite like the way you put it. So I really do appreciate your time. Absolutely. And I want the audience to know that DEI, inclusion, whatever you see politically, government, it's not going anywhere. And I like that. yeah Okay. So if you have a question about it, B,
00:42:48
Speaker
Be brave. Be bold. Talk to someone within your organization. Talk with your CDO because I know we are readily available and there are probably many of the folk on the team that support you. Leverage that team as to the best of your ability. I thank you for being a part of this conversation and I look forward to the next conversation.